July 27, 2024 • 35 mins
Is it possible to break out of the stigma and be a successful step-parent? Dougal Sutherland joins Tim Beveridge on The Weekend Collective to discuss this and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
It'd be did your.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Boot stuff working? Did your truck breach? Did you plant
through money? Digit X fun health with There's will and
there's a way, And I'm not sure you lasting? Didn't
he even say goodbye? Just quish you what cause it
was the whiskey flowing? Were you in enough? Did the
(00:32):
nast college shoots your und love? Time live a wing
went super leg and that's where you'll be forgotten? Three
years still be here, chunk quash open last.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage
and it's now time for the Parents Squad. By the way,
if you've missed any of the previous hours and it's
one of those things that's one of your listening sort
of appointments you make yourself, then you can check out
the podcast. Just look for the Weekend Collective and I
suggest iHeartRadio as the starting point. What't your call? I
R eight one hundred eighty ten eighty and you can
(01:08):
text on nine two nine two. And my guest this
week for the Parents Squad as well. He's become a
regular on the show. His name is Google Sutherland Gay Google,
how are you going? Hang on a second, have we
got you there at Google? Not yet? But just why
we get it, just why we're sorting that out. A
couple of the things we're going to talk about is
(01:29):
the first is well, the first is the big one. Really,
it's about how to be a successful step parent and
whether you know whether the idea of being a stepparent
has the sort of stigma that it used to have.
Of course, the brothers Grimm with their fairy tales with
the step evil stepmother and all that sort of stuff.
I think we've we've moved a long way from those
from those issues. But the the other thing we might
(01:50):
touch on before the end of the show as well,
is about you know, when should you be paying your
kids pocket money for doing some basic things around the
house and do you or do you have to actually
bribe your kids because you've done it for them for
so long. But right now I think we've managed to
connect with Google. How are you going?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Hey, Tom? I'm good?
Speaker 5 (02:09):
How are you mate?
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Not too bad? I'm assuming you heard most of what
I was chatting about there or maybe not on the end.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
No, I'm all over it like a rap.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Are you. Actually, I guess the simple question is are
there some simple rules when it comes to step parenting,
because it's a much more common sort of family dynamic now,
isn't it. And I think we've moved along since the
Brothers grim fairy tales of the Evil stepmother or whatever.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
Yeah, yeah, look, I think my thoughts are that, firstly,
the biological parent has a huge role to play in
supporting the step parent and setting that up really well
and setting kind of expectations about how the step parent.
(03:00):
That's a weird term, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Stepparent?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
It does sound we must need a new name for it. Yeah, yeah,
that sounds like it's got that kind of is it.
Speaker 6 (03:12):
Hansl and Gretel, the step mother, the evil step mother
who took them out into the woods because the father
was the father was woodcutter was near the step mother
took the right.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Yeah. There were some pretty other horrendous things, of course,
all about ovens and putting children in that nat. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah,
let's let's face it. Those brother Brother's grim fairy tales.
You should see the ones that they haven't published recently.
Some of them are horrendous.
Speaker 6 (03:39):
Yeah, I'd read that somewhere too they were grim was
a really good too, because they were pretty terrible.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
I was wondering whether that's where the grim comes from.
But anyway, back to the back to the step parenting.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
We digress.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
But actually the reason also I mentioned this was, well,
I've actually had this in the back of my mind
to talk about step parenting, but it was I thought
it was quite nice trying to look for a bit.
We're the nice to hear about, you know how, there
was that crappy statement made by j d Vance about
Karmala Harris. Now we're not going to talk about politics,
(04:14):
but I saw that the the mother of Kamala Harris's
step children, had come out and had said we are
and she'd said such a lovely thing about how she
valued you know how they were a family of three
parents or something, and I remember, I just remember, I
just thought at the time, I thought, because the potential
(04:36):
for that was for that to come out in not
such a great way. But she's so warm and positive
about it all. But of course not always the case,
is it.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
That's not as And I think it takes a great
deal of humility and courage for a biological parent to
praise and speak warmly of a step parent, because let's
face it, for most people that you know, the the
step parent is not as often not somebody that they
(05:09):
want to be in the picture, because there's been a
whole lot of acrimonial probably in many cases, but it is.
I think what it does show is those sorts of
statements can highlight the fact that Haya's parents or as people,
as adults who are playing a lead role in our
children's lives, we've really got a responsibility to act responsibly
(05:33):
and speak respectfully about the other person and the other
people because ultimately it's just going to you know that
the impact will be mostly on the kids. If you don't,
and if you want to make your kids up, then
you know, speak negatively about the people who are in
their lives, that's going to have a that's going to
make them up quite badly. So I think, you know
that sort of I you know, applaud that kind of
(05:54):
that that statement, and.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I think, yeah, that's yeah, yeah, it would be a
really tough thing to do.
Speaker 6 (06:01):
I think, but guys, here I take my hat off
to those people who can actually do that and say,
do you know what, I acknowledge that there's another person
in our children's life. I might not want it, but
that's how it is. And if I want the best
for my kids, I probably need to. I probably need
to be supportive and take the view that, yeah, there
(06:22):
may be three or perhaps four parents in this in
my children's lives.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
On that just if you are the step parent and
you're a new relationship and your partner is the one
who has primarily the custody of their children, actually that's
probably irrelevant, because well may be relevant up to a point,
but of course you are always going to have contact.
You're often going to have contact with your partner's children,
whether or not they're living with you or not. It
(06:49):
is a difficult one to sort of, I guess, how
do you what advice would you have or what are
the things that can go right and wrong when you
are beginning your role as a step parent.
Speaker 6 (07:03):
I think, and short of going back to what I
was staying at the start and then kind of trailed
off and we've got good and other things. I think firstly,
the the no no no mine as well, I think
I think you know, firstly, the bile. I think it's
really crucial for the biological parents to be clear in
their expectations with kids about how how they what they
(07:25):
expect from the children, and you know, making it clear
that this person is not going to be a stand
in mother or father. They're not here to be the
second mother or father, but they are going to be
an important role in their life. And just like any
other adult, they need to be they need to be
respected and and if they and they are going to.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
They're going to help the.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
Biological parent and running the family and that's how it's
going to be. So I think there's that, and I
think from a step parent side, I remember seeing that that.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I just remind it was reminded of it.
Speaker 6 (08:00):
I was reading a Herald article before about it and
it said, you know, it takes seven years for the
sort of a blended family to fully blend in quotes,
and I've forgotten that, but it reminded me that, Look,
it does take time, and you know, I think it's
that's a really you know, seven years is an awful
long time, but but I think that's probably a good
thing to have in your mind. Actually, it is going
(08:22):
to take time. I'm not going to be jumping in
and just you know, things aren't going to go well probably,
and I just need to take it slowly, be there
in the background, but you know, back up the biological parent,
and hopefully the biological parent will back me up too.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
But I think it's very much a.
Speaker 6 (08:39):
Case of slowly moving to the you know, staying and
being in the background somewhat and then slowly moving to
the foreground and to become equal.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
But that will take a bit of time.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Yeah, because the advice that i've you sometimes hear to
parents let's forget the step parent equation, is that sometimes
it might be a mistake where you try to be
the friend of your children, your child's best friend, rather
than forgetting that you are their parent. And that's and
so in a way, but you can't see where what
(09:11):
approach does a step parent take to children, because you
can't step in and suddenly pretend that you're a parent
and what I say goes and all that, and yet
you know you're you're not necessarily going to be advised
to be their friend either. I'm able.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
It is.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
I think one of the key things is, you know,
for a biological parent, there's been a relationship there from
your dot and obviously before your dot, and that is
I think that's the key thing to focus on. Focus
on the relationship, not on the rule setting and on
the enforcing of the rules. Let the biological parent do that,
(09:48):
and if you're required to, if you're asked to, you know,
step in and support that. But focus firstly on the
relationship and that that I mean the relationship in a
parent child kind of sense, not in the best friend sense,
because you're going to set yourself up to fail if
you t to be friends. That doesn't but you know,
(10:08):
do try and get a good relationship going that because
that is that you're starting from. You're behind the curve
in a way. You don't have that biological relationship to
fall back on. So I think starting with just getting
a relationship going.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
What does that actually look like?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I think it yeah, pragmatically.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
Look, I think it involves one of the do you
know what One of the best things I think that parents,
whether they're biological or not biological, can do with a child.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Is spend about fifteen to.
Speaker 6 (10:46):
Twenty minutes a day just hanging out and playing with them.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
And you know, of course five and fifteen year old
for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yep, And so I thn'k.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
Once we get into teenage years, it's more tricky, but
you know, when the just and when you're in that time.
I think one of the key things is not to
be directive.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
It's you you are.
Speaker 6 (11:11):
Think of that as you are going on to the turf,
the child's turf, and you're just hanging out with them.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
If they're playing lego or whatever it is.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
Just do that with them, join in and play with
them and be with them without having to and don't
set the rules and all, no, we can't do that.
That's not how we play with you know, just.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Just be there in the circle type of thing.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Be in the circle.
Speaker 6 (11:35):
We know that's really important for parenting, regardless of whether
it's biological or step parent, that that time together is
a crucial and it's non directed. So you're not trying
to you're not trying to tell them what to do,
you're not running things.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
You are very much in their zone and you are.
Speaker 6 (11:53):
On the turf and just be there and just hang out.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
It doesn't have to be forever.
Speaker 6 (11:58):
And to be fair, you might it might be a
bit boring because you might not want to play cards
for the four hundredth time, But the whole thing is
you're trying to connect and form that relationship. And I
think that's the key thing getting in there first to
get that relationship going. If there needs to be any
rules or any enforcement of rules or anything, let bring
(12:19):
the biological parents in. Don't try to do to that
much of yourself.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I guess. Also, look, we have to acknowledge that, you know,
somebody's had a crack at meat, crack at us for
saying it's not like one size fits all, and of
course it's not. But so I guess what we're assuming
in this equation is that there is a good, healthy,
functional relationship with both biological parents between the children, and
you are the step parent and you've suddenly become the
(12:45):
extra parent in that equation. Yeah, obviously, when someone is
in a new relationship because of the moved out of
an abusive one, and you know, and maybe one parent's
not really part of the picture, there's probably that is
a different situation where then you might be required to
provide more of a nurturing sort of role, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
Yeah, absolutely, And obviously it's really really difficult to do
anything but talking generalities because well, you know, but yes,
I think you know, when there are two parents, that
was in my mind really that two parents that have separated,
they both had some custody. But I think, look at you,
if you when you're new into a child's life as
(13:27):
an adult, it is you know, just again, I think
it's that fundamental go back to the fundamentals of laying
down a good relationship. You don't have to go out
spending money and taking them to all the great things,
because that can end up backfiring after a while. But
it's just as I said, just being on there too,
and being there for them and doing the normal stuff,
(13:49):
the boring stuff, therrying them around to sports practice or
taking this you know that, I think that is really
sowing the seeds for a good relationship into the future.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
If you're okay, I think it's probably so hard to
say you're not going to like little ones. But what
if the kids are a bit older and you find that,
I don't know, you don't like them or they don't
like you. It's probably possibly more the.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Equation, possibly more the equation.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Look, I think, look, I don't know, you say, I
don't think that's exclusive in any way to a stick parent.
You know, many of us, you know, I put my
hand up. There are times when I did not, like,
you know, my kids are out of that zone now,
but there are times when I did not enjoy having
teenagers and they were just sullen and annoying.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
But that's life. I mean, that's so.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
I don't think there's anything special necessarily about being a
step parent in there. It's just noting that those are
that's teenagers. And sometimes it's like living with aliens and
you just have to go, oh, they're weird. But I'll
push through because I want to have a good relationship
at the end of it.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Okay, actually, because I guess the question for step parents
is many the same for parents sometimes as well. But
maybe it's trickier when you don't feel you've got an authority.
So if you've got teenagers living in the routh and
they are being difficult, yes, it is easier for a
biological parent to say, hey, listen, buddy, until you can
snap out of that root, you just you can just
(15:15):
take yourself for some time out or something. You take
whatever disciplinary steps you need to take. Whereas for stepparent
that is a bit trick really, isn't.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It is trickier, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
Yeah, And again I would come back to the fact
that there needs to be some really clear and good
consistent communication from the parents as a team, the biological
parent and the step parent and biological parents say very clearly, Hey, look,
I'm asking stepmom, stepdad, whoever it is, to participate in this.
(15:46):
I'm giving them that, you know, I'm giving them responsibility
on you know, we are we are together. You're really
wanting to be presenting that consistent what we sometimes call
parental alliance. You know, parents are united together as one,
whether they're biological or step parents, and if and that
has to be done quite I think that probably in
(16:08):
blended families needs to be done more explicitly maybe than
in a biological family, because biological family it's kind of like, well,
of course you are you kind of like. But even
biological families, you know, kids are often trying to not maliciously,
but you know, we all look for the weaker link.
Speaker 7 (16:24):
I ask.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
I think I'll ask mum for this one, because I
don't think Dad's going to say yes.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
So that's quite normal.
Speaker 6 (16:31):
You know, that's just teenagers trying to get their own way,
and that's pretty normal.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
So really, I think hugely.
Speaker 6 (16:37):
Important to lay that foundation of two parents regardless of
biological step we are together.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
We are the foundation, we are the base. We are
together in this.
Speaker 6 (16:48):
And yep, teenagers, we expect teenagers to kick against authority.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
That's what teenagers do.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
And they're going to say nasty things to you, like
you're not my real parent, or they say nasty things
to they're biological parents. So so try to try not
to internalize that too much.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Yeah, yeah, I get the feeling. For for all the
adults in the equation, you've really just got to you've
just got to forget it's not about you for a while,
whether you be the biological parent or the step parent,
just take it easy and put yourself, put your own
offended feelings out of the picture for a while, because
otherwise that's.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Just well, you know, I think it is you know
one of those psychologists things, isn't it Well, well, that's a
good moment for you to roll model something. But it is,
you know, it's a good it's a good opportunity for
you as an adult to really role model good emotional
regulation of your own because yeah, kids and the kids
are going to really great you at times, and yeah,
(17:49):
and we.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Need to do that. So I think it's really good.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Okay, We're going to take a quick break, come back.
We'd love to say from you if you've got any
stories about, you know, adapting to a new family situation
with step kids and step parents and how you made
the transition or the challenges you faced, because you know
it's it is. Parenting itself is hard enough forgetting the
challenges that stepparents face. We'd love to hear from you.
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty text nine to nine two.
(18:14):
It's coming up to twenty four past five News Talks
d B.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Tim Beveridge on the weekend Connective call. Oh eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty us talk said.
Speaker 7 (18:25):
From me on the dover shide of Wishy Nay Nami
Ja Danail's.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
Dy yes to you.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
There's a party down town, your future me everybody had barket.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Y's welcome back to the parents Quiet. I'm the Tim Beverage.
My guest is Google's Google do souther London slept at
the tongue there. Anyway, we're talking about the challenges of
being a stepparent. Are there any golden rules you've learned?
And we want to hear your your have your calls
on if you've got any advice for people on forming
a new family. Michael, Hello, Hi guys, there, you're going good.
Speaker 8 (19:01):
Thanks, Sorry recently, I'm sure on the flip side of
what you're talking about, but I am. I have three
small boys, a four year old and two under two
year old twin boys as well. Now, I've recently gone
through a breakup and today we had a birthday party
(19:24):
for the oldest boy and the partner of my ex
was there, so I just sort of, I guess, I
don't know, I felt a bit, I just felt weird
about it. Yeah, I'm just not sure how to navigate
through that sort of situation. And he looked like he
(19:45):
was good with the boy. It was quite sad to
see when he turned up to see the boys to
go running to him, which I guess is a good thing,
but for me at the same time, it hurts.
Speaker 6 (19:55):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Michael, I think from what you've said,
you're in a really tough position. But actually I think,
you know, if we're putting the kids best interests, then
you you know, if this this other guy is in
is in their life, then you know, you want them
(20:15):
to have a positive relationship with them. But I can
only imagine what it must be. That it must be
bloody gutting, you know, to see your kids run to
another guy and it's like, oh my god, I'm your dad,
and yeah, my heart goes out here, really mate, And
but but I think I think it's I think it's
probably a good thing for the kids, and I think it,
(20:36):
but I think it is important for you to be
able to have the opportunity to talk with whoever it is,
somebody important in your life where you can actually say that, say, look,
you know what, it's probably good for the kids, but
it sucks for me and I'm bloody hurting about it.
And I reckon you probably need that space to be
able to say that. And maybe that's through friends or
(20:57):
family or whatever, but just somebody there that can actually
hear your grief, because I think it's probably a bit
of a grieving you losing something. Perhaps you're losing being
the only person in their life or the only male
role model, but you know, and that's that's.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
That's a valid feeling.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
And you know your job is to protect your kids
from that a bit so that they can have a
good relationship. But I think it's really important for you
to be able to have a space somewhere to be
able to unload that for you.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Actually, Michael, I'm actually really glad you've called, because I
think sometimes when we have these discussions about the right
way of doing something, we forget that there's actually sort
of pain involved, isn't it.
Speaker 8 (21:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely definitely. I just guess with the
young boys through, they're so young, they're not even too yet,
and I just I feel like, potentially I'm losing my
Griffin being a father, even though I do have an
system system.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, how do they? I mean, are you how are you?
How do you feel about your own connection? Because yeah,
what's your How are you feeling to be connections?
Speaker 8 (22:06):
Yeah, it's really great. I mean when we're together, we're
always to have a blast. It's just just to see
that today, you know, I can't stop her from moving
on this, you know. Yeah, it was just it was
just hard to see it like in front of.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
You like that. Oh that sounds really tough. I guess
the question I have while we've got your Michael Doogle
is and I don't know, because when you try and
rationalize these things, of course, it's it's not meant to
dismiss anything. But is it right to say that? Because
what I think is intuitively that Michael might be feeling,
(22:45):
is that a level of love that his kids have
for him, that some of that is having to be
given away to someone else. Whereas if I was to
put on my sort of optimistic hat, it's actually the
love that they that they have for their dad is
exactly the same, and they just happen to be forming
also more affection for someone else, But it has no
(23:07):
detraction on his equation. Is that something that.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
I've worked with parents and families and kids for, you know,
over twenty years, and my experience has been that kids
always always know who their biological parents are, and they
always have a special role in children's life. And as
you say to them, it's not that there isn't It's
not like there's a maximum amount of affection or love
that kids have in their in their life and they
(23:36):
if they give out some to someone else, they have
to give out less to everyone else.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Yeah, it's not like a cake. Where is that right, Michael?
That intuitively it does feel like that that somebody's taken
a slice of your cake?
Speaker 8 (23:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel And I also I
feel a bit greedy for feeling like that, because yeah,
I know they need another They're going to get another
figure in your life, whether I want it or not.
So I just I do feel a bit greedy for
feeling the way.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
But mate, I just think that you. I think your
honest expression of why you're feeling is a really positive thing.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, me too. Yeah, I think it's really good.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
I think it's you know, I can hear the battle
that you're going through, and that is that's a real
sort of struggle. It's but you know, my experience is
that biological parents are kids always, always, always, Even when
biological parents haven't been there, you know that there's something
special and unique and I doubt that you'll ever lose that.
(24:39):
And yeah, kids will, kids can, you know, have plenty
of people in their lives, but my experience has been
at biological parents, both mum and dad always a special role,
regardless of house.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Is in their life.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
I hope that sort of helps, Michael, And given that
you've shared it with us, I hope you've got someone
you can also quietly talk to.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Yeah, good on you, mate. I think look that's a no.
I thought that's an awesome call. For Michael, just for
his honesty, but I think it helps us hone in
on what the real one of the big issues is
is because as I said before, we can get caught
up with sort of painting a picture and this is
what you should do and stuff, and yet the emotional pain. Yeah,
it's just trying to find a context for that, isn't it.
(25:26):
Let's take another call Peter, Hello, Yes.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
Good afternoon or evening, almost listening to your previous caller there,
and I would offer my experience. I went through a
similar situation, but I'd come from a broken home myself,
where my parents separated when I was two, and I
know the pain that in grief that's caused by having
(25:54):
to choose between an ex partner or an ex parent
and your present parent. And all I can suggest to
that my experience.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Was it.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
This first experience was at a swimming sports and when
the kids came out of the water, they had to
choose did they go to my ex wife and her
new partner or did they come to me? And I
found that a very painful experience to go through. So
I Withdrew made a conscious decision to withdraw from attending
(26:29):
any of those sort of functions and now sort of
fifty years down the track, I'm enjoying a very good
relationship with both my son and my daughter.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Did you need to withdraw? Was it just changing your expectations?
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Well, no, I knew the pain that came with the
separated parents and having to choose. And I can quote
an experience at night seven o'clock being put to bed,
my father knocked on the door and my mother invited
(27:13):
them in, and I had to make a choice. Was
I going to go with my father or was I
going to stay with my mother? And my younger brother
was beside me, and I had to try and keep
both parents happy. The answer, what's the answer that you
(27:33):
would give?
Speaker 6 (27:36):
I think that's yeah, And I think that's really back
to front. I think that that that's that is a
completely impossible position for a child to be, and they're
simply not capable of being able to make that decision.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
But I think that's where parents.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Have to stand up as adults and say, look, even
though you and I no longer want to live together anymore,
and our marriage is over or our relationships over, we
still have a responsibility to raise these kids. And it
is not it's our role as adults and as parents
to be making the best decisions for their children, and
(28:11):
you simply can't let children decide. It's not it's not
fair on kids. They can't do it, and they will
end up tied up in guilt for a very long
time because they think they've made the right decision or
the wrong decision, but it actually it shouldn't have been
their decision in the first place. So kind of my
heart goes out topeter around having to be in that
(28:32):
position and about you know, your experience of having to
withdraw from your own kids. It's great to hear that
you've got a good relationship now, but you know, it's
it's it's actually parents that need or the adults that
need to come together. And unfortunately, I think that sometimes
goes out the window in a separation, and I get why,
but actually it's an adult's responsibility and parents' responsibility to
(28:56):
do this the best interests of their kids rather than
let a child decide, because it's impossible for a child.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
He by the way, for Michael and anyone is in
Michael's situation anyway, We've had quite a few texts just
in solidarity in a positive way. I mean some people
even want to get your number, Michael, because Chris is
in the same boat as you. Great care from Michael.
Loved Dishonesties probably helped a lot of people who are
going through the same thing. I love your show. That's
from Carolyn. Thank you for that, Carolyn, and for Michael.
(29:25):
Never doubt you are the most important male role model
in your children's lives. You'll see that in years to come.
Just be constant and it will get easier. You sound
like an awesome dad. I think that dad's just I
just I think that dads just need that sort of
that sort of reassurance, don't they that you know, it's
a common Yeah.
Speaker 6 (29:45):
I think they do, and I think I think often
my experience has been that dads feel a little bit
unconfident and as though they are the sort of the
second fiddle and that they should just step back.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
And maybe that's because they haven't had that experience themselves.
Speaker 6 (30:01):
But yeah, I think that that text that you read
out there to was really said, Well, it's just that
you're going to just be constant and hang in there
and just keep going back and you will experience it
later on, but you do have to get through the
hard stuff to get there.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yeah, and I think the other point that, I mean,
I'm luckily I'm not in that situation, but I think that, Yeah,
when people think that, when if somebody else is getting
affection that, don't think of it as taking away from yours.
It's just.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
That there's no sort of maximum amount.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
There's no as you said it nicely before, it's not
a it's not a limited cake that once you give
out one piece it's less. It's just it keeps going.
And you think about that when there's calls or whatever.
New people come into that into the relationship, new brothers
and sisters, new grandparents or whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Hey, there's heaps of love.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
To go rund Well, that's actually the classic. The classic
example is counseling little kids who are not used to
an extra sibling. It's like, mommy and daddy are going
to love me even less.
Speaker 6 (30:59):
No, they're not.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
In fact, that's quite a good way to think of it.
That if you're a parent having an extra child and
the child was thinking, but hang on, are you going
to love me as much because you're giving love, and
you just realized, no, no, it's just it's just more.
Speaker 6 (31:10):
It's just more to do and at the same time
natural to feel like that, but but yeah, keep going.
There's not a limited amount of love that can go out.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Good stuff. Let's go to Ken get a.
Speaker 7 (31:22):
Hi there, Kim. I've got a great story. Actually I'm
a key with But I was living in Sydney in
the mid seventies and I had, I guess, an unplanned
pregnancy and missus venture a next girlfriend. We sort of
met up a while after we broke up to go
(31:44):
to a one plus one party. She needed a partner
and asked me if i'd go anyway, long story short
where we ended up having one for the road, as
that were, and she felt pregnant and I her parents
became involved and I was sort of told that I
was said nothing to do with with the that they
(32:05):
would raise it as their own and they wouldn't cause
any problem providing I corporated and just sort of back
down of the whole scenario. So I did, because I
was quite young myself and I didn't want to, you know,
my family's up, so I agreed to that. So we
never met her. I never saw her, but I was
(32:26):
allowed to bring them my daughter when she was born.
I do, but like I said, I was young, and
it was pretty complicated because the mother of the gil
but fell pregnant, I was actually her boss at work.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
This is getting this is getting quite complicated beyond the
stepparents situation. But I might I just ask a Doogle,
have you got any input on this one?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (32:52):
Look, I think you know, I've heard those sorts of
sad tales before in terms of you know, grandparents stepping in.
But you know, I think I think you know, parents
do have a biological role and duty to play in
their children's life. And actually children have just as much
right to have access to their biological parents. And I
(33:15):
think that's really important that even you know, and maybe
those grandparents were I'm sure they had the best interest
of everybody at heart, but actually biological parents are biological parents,
and they've got rights to their kids under most circumstances.
And kids also have rights to know that who their
biological parents are and to know who their mums and
(33:35):
dads are. It's an important part of figuring us. Figuring
out who you are is knowing who my parents are
and having some contact with them if that's possible.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Thanks for you, Corl, I really appreciate it. Ken actually
somebody's texted saying in the seventies it was quite common
for the kids having to choose. This persient says, I
was teaching a little eight year old or older sister
and who chose to go with father because he had
the car and they'd have to walk everywhere if they
stay with mum. Yeah, well, I mean that's a terrible stootment.
(34:05):
We have moved on, but I mean I would imagine
that most people get advice and please don't make the
children shop.
Speaker 6 (34:13):
It's I hope we've moved on, and I've certainly heard
those stories too, but it's just impossible for and it's
a it's actually I think it's an it's parents not
being able to step up and do their job as parents.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
You can't ask a child to do that.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
As an example you gave, they make the decision based
on who's got the nice car or who hasn't got
the nice car.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
So no, it's you can't put children in that position
to choose.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Actually, by the way, just quickly because we have to
wrap up in a second Google. But it's probably still
a dilemma when parents do actually have a chat with
teenagers when they've only got two or three more years
at home, probably you should still avoid that, shouldn't you.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Look In many ways, I think so.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
I think it's I think as kids get older, they
will have more say in it, but ultimately it's still
a parentce parents need to come together around it, and
it's it's still even when kids are, you know, under eighteen,
it's still very difficult for them to be in that
position to choose because they are ultimately rejecting one and
accepting another.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
And that's that's not a position they should be in.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Excellent, Hey doogle. Time flies when you're having fun. But
thank you so much for your time, and also to
our callers and texters for texting and your support for
Michael and Michael for calling and your other callers.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, that was That was a great call, wasn't it
for you?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks It'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
It'd be did your.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Boot stuff working? Did your truck breach? Did you plant
through money? Digit X fun health with There's will and
there's a way, And I'm not sure you lasting? Didn't
he even say goodbye? Just quish you what cause it
was the whiskey flowing? Were you in enough? Did the
(00:32):
nast college shoots your und love? Time live a wing
went super leg and that's where you'll be forgotten? Three
years still be here, chunk quash open last.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage
and it's now time for the Parents Squad. By the way,
if you've missed any of the previous hours and it's
one of those things that's one of your listening sort
of appointments you make yourself, then you can check out
the podcast. Just look for the Weekend Collective and I
suggest iHeartRadio as the starting point. What't your call? I
R eight one hundred eighty ten eighty and you can
(01:08):
text on nine two nine two. And my guest this
week for the Parents Squad as well. He's become a
regular on the show. His name is Google Sutherland Gay Google,
how are you going? Hang on a second, have we
got you there at Google? Not yet? But just why
we get it, just why we're sorting that out. A
couple of the things we're going to talk about is
(01:29):
the first is well, the first is the big one. Really,
it's about how to be a successful step parent and
whether you know whether the idea of being a stepparent
has the sort of stigma that it used to have.
Of course, the brothers Grimm with their fairy tales with
the step evil stepmother and all that sort of stuff.
I think we've we've moved a long way from those
from those issues. But the the other thing we might
(01:50):
touch on before the end of the show as well,
is about you know, when should you be paying your
kids pocket money for doing some basic things around the
house and do you or do you have to actually
bribe your kids because you've done it for them for
so long. But right now I think we've managed to
connect with Google. How are you going?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Hey, Tom? I'm good?
Speaker 5 (02:09):
How are you mate?
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Not too bad? I'm assuming you heard most of what
I was chatting about there or maybe not on the end.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
No, I'm all over it like a rap.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Are you. Actually, I guess the simple question is are
there some simple rules when it comes to step parenting,
because it's a much more common sort of family dynamic now,
isn't it. And I think we've moved along since the
Brothers grim fairy tales of the Evil stepmother or whatever.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
Yeah, yeah, look, I think my thoughts are that, firstly,
the biological parent has a huge role to play in
supporting the step parent and setting that up really well
and setting kind of expectations about how the step parent.
(03:00):
That's a weird term, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Stepparent?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
It does sound we must need a new name for it. Yeah, yeah,
that sounds like it's got that kind of is it.
Speaker 6 (03:12):
Hansl and Gretel, the step mother, the evil step mother
who took them out into the woods because the father
was the father was woodcutter was near the step mother
took the right.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Yeah. There were some pretty other horrendous things, of course,
all about ovens and putting children in that nat. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah,
let's let's face it. Those brother Brother's grim fairy tales.
You should see the ones that they haven't published recently.
Some of them are horrendous.
Speaker 6 (03:39):
Yeah, I'd read that somewhere too they were grim was
a really good too, because they were pretty terrible.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
I was wondering whether that's where the grim comes from.
But anyway, back to the back to the step parenting.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
We digress.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
But actually the reason also I mentioned this was, well,
I've actually had this in the back of my mind
to talk about step parenting, but it was I thought
it was quite nice trying to look for a bit.
We're the nice to hear about, you know how, there
was that crappy statement made by j d Vance about
Karmala Harris. Now we're not going to talk about politics,
(04:14):
but I saw that the the mother of Kamala Harris's
step children, had come out and had said we are
and she'd said such a lovely thing about how she
valued you know how they were a family of three
parents or something, and I remember, I just remember, I
just thought at the time, I thought, because the potential
(04:36):
for that was for that to come out in not
such a great way. But she's so warm and positive
about it all. But of course not always the case,
is it.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
That's not as And I think it takes a great
deal of humility and courage for a biological parent to
praise and speak warmly of a step parent, because let's
face it, for most people that you know, the the
step parent is not as often not somebody that they
(05:09):
want to be in the picture, because there's been a
whole lot of acrimonial probably in many cases, but it is.
I think what it does show is those sorts of
statements can highlight the fact that Haya's parents or as people,
as adults who are playing a lead role in our
children's lives, we've really got a responsibility to act responsibly
(05:33):
and speak respectfully about the other person and the other
people because ultimately it's just going to you know that
the impact will be mostly on the kids. If you don't,
and if you want to make your kids up, then
you know, speak negatively about the people who are in
their lives, that's going to have a that's going to
make them up quite badly. So I think, you know
that sort of I you know, applaud that kind of
(05:54):
that that statement, and.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I think, yeah, that's yeah, yeah, it would be a
really tough thing to do.
Speaker 6 (06:01):
I think, but guys, here I take my hat off
to those people who can actually do that and say,
do you know what, I acknowledge that there's another person
in our children's life. I might not want it, but
that's how it is. And if I want the best
for my kids, I probably need to. I probably need
to be supportive and take the view that, yeah, there
(06:22):
may be three or perhaps four parents in this in
my children's lives.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
On that just if you are the step parent and
you're a new relationship and your partner is the one
who has primarily the custody of their children, actually that's
probably irrelevant, because well may be relevant up to a point,
but of course you are always going to have contact.
You're often going to have contact with your partner's children,
whether or not they're living with you or not. It
(06:49):
is a difficult one to sort of, I guess, how
do you what advice would you have or what are
the things that can go right and wrong when you
are beginning your role as a step parent.
Speaker 6 (07:03):
I think, and short of going back to what I
was staying at the start and then kind of trailed
off and we've got good and other things. I think firstly,
the the no no no mine as well, I think
I think you know, firstly, the bile. I think it's
really crucial for the biological parents to be clear in
their expectations with kids about how how they what they
(07:25):
expect from the children, and you know, making it clear
that this person is not going to be a stand
in mother or father. They're not here to be the
second mother or father, but they are going to be
an important role in their life. And just like any
other adult, they need to be they need to be
respected and and if they and they are going to.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
They're going to help the.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
Biological parent and running the family and that's how it's
going to be. So I think there's that, and I
think from a step parent side, I remember seeing that that.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I just remind it was reminded of it.
Speaker 6 (08:00):
I was reading a Herald article before about it and
it said, you know, it takes seven years for the
sort of a blended family to fully blend in quotes,
and I've forgotten that, but it reminded me that, Look,
it does take time, and you know, I think it's
that's a really you know, seven years is an awful
long time, but but I think that's probably a good
thing to have in your mind. Actually, it is going
(08:22):
to take time. I'm not going to be jumping in
and just you know, things aren't going to go well probably,
and I just need to take it slowly, be there
in the background, but you know, back up the biological parent,
and hopefully the biological parent will back me up too.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
But I think it's very much a.
Speaker 6 (08:39):
Case of slowly moving to the you know, staying and
being in the background somewhat and then slowly moving to
the foreground and to become equal.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
But that will take a bit of time.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Yeah, because the advice that i've you sometimes hear to
parents let's forget the step parent equation, is that sometimes
it might be a mistake where you try to be
the friend of your children, your child's best friend, rather
than forgetting that you are their parent. And that's and
so in a way, but you can't see where what
(09:11):
approach does a step parent take to children, because you
can't step in and suddenly pretend that you're a parent
and what I say goes and all that, and yet
you know you're you're not necessarily going to be advised
to be their friend either. I'm able.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
It is.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
I think one of the key things is, you know,
for a biological parent, there's been a relationship there from
your dot and obviously before your dot, and that is
I think that's the key thing to focus on. Focus
on the relationship, not on the rule setting and on
the enforcing of the rules. Let the biological parent do that,
(09:48):
and if you're required to, if you're asked to, you know,
step in and support that. But focus firstly on the
relationship and that that I mean the relationship in a
parent child kind of sense, not in the best friend sense,
because you're going to set yourself up to fail if
you t to be friends. That doesn't but you know,
(10:08):
do try and get a good relationship going that because
that is that you're starting from. You're behind the curve
in a way. You don't have that biological relationship to
fall back on. So I think starting with just getting
a relationship going.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
What does that actually look like?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I think it yeah, pragmatically.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
Look, I think it involves one of the do you
know what One of the best things I think that parents,
whether they're biological or not biological, can do with a child.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Is spend about fifteen to.
Speaker 6 (10:46):
Twenty minutes a day just hanging out and playing with them.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
And you know, of course five and fifteen year old
for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yep, And so I thn'k.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
Once we get into teenage years, it's more tricky, but
you know, when the just and when you're in that time.
I think one of the key things is not to
be directive.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
It's you you are.
Speaker 6 (11:11):
Think of that as you are going on to the turf,
the child's turf, and you're just hanging out with them.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
If they're playing lego or whatever it is.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
Just do that with them, join in and play with
them and be with them without having to and don't
set the rules and all, no, we can't do that.
That's not how we play with you know, just.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Just be there in the circle type of thing.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Be in the circle.
Speaker 6 (11:35):
We know that's really important for parenting, regardless of whether
it's biological or step parent, that that time together is
a crucial and it's non directed. So you're not trying
to you're not trying to tell them what to do,
you're not running things.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
You are very much in their zone and you are.
Speaker 6 (11:53):
On the turf and just be there and just hang out.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
It doesn't have to be forever.
Speaker 6 (11:58):
And to be fair, you might it might be a
bit boring because you might not want to play cards
for the four hundredth time, But the whole thing is
you're trying to connect and form that relationship. And I
think that's the key thing getting in there first to
get that relationship going. If there needs to be any
rules or any enforcement of rules or anything, let bring
(12:19):
the biological parents in. Don't try to do to that
much of yourself.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I guess. Also, look, we have to acknowledge that, you know,
somebody's had a crack at meat, crack at us for
saying it's not like one size fits all, and of
course it's not. But so I guess what we're assuming
in this equation is that there is a good, healthy,
functional relationship with both biological parents between the children, and
you are the step parent and you've suddenly become the
(12:45):
extra parent in that equation. Yeah, obviously, when someone is
in a new relationship because of the moved out of
an abusive one, and you know, and maybe one parent's
not really part of the picture, there's probably that is
a different situation where then you might be required to
provide more of a nurturing sort of role, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
Yeah, absolutely, And obviously it's really really difficult to do
anything but talking generalities because well, you know, but yes,
I think you know, when there are two parents, that
was in my mind really that two parents that have separated,
they both had some custody. But I think, look at you,
if you when you're new into a child's life as
(13:27):
an adult, it is you know, just again, I think
it's that fundamental go back to the fundamentals of laying
down a good relationship. You don't have to go out
spending money and taking them to all the great things,
because that can end up backfiring after a while. But
it's just as I said, just being on there too,
and being there for them and doing the normal stuff,
(13:49):
the boring stuff, therrying them around to sports practice or
taking this you know that, I think that is really
sowing the seeds for a good relationship into the future.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
If you're okay, I think it's probably so hard to
say you're not going to like little ones. But what
if the kids are a bit older and you find that,
I don't know, you don't like them or they don't
like you. It's probably possibly more the.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Equation, possibly more the equation.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Look, I think, look, I don't know, you say, I
don't think that's exclusive in any way to a stick parent.
You know, many of us, you know, I put my
hand up. There are times when I did not, like,
you know, my kids are out of that zone now,
but there are times when I did not enjoy having
teenagers and they were just sullen and annoying.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
But that's life. I mean, that's so.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
I don't think there's anything special necessarily about being a
step parent in there. It's just noting that those are
that's teenagers. And sometimes it's like living with aliens and
you just have to go, oh, they're weird. But I'll
push through because I want to have a good relationship
at the end of it.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Okay, actually, because I guess the question for step parents
is many the same for parents sometimes as well. But
maybe it's trickier when you don't feel you've got an authority.
So if you've got teenagers living in the routh and
they are being difficult, yes, it is easier for a
biological parent to say, hey, listen, buddy, until you can
snap out of that root, you just you can just
(15:15):
take yourself for some time out or something. You take
whatever disciplinary steps you need to take. Whereas for stepparent
that is a bit trick really, isn't.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It is trickier, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
Yeah, And again I would come back to the fact
that there needs to be some really clear and good
consistent communication from the parents as a team, the biological
parent and the step parent and biological parents say very clearly, Hey, look,
I'm asking stepmom, stepdad, whoever it is, to participate in this.
(15:46):
I'm giving them that, you know, I'm giving them responsibility
on you know, we are we are together. You're really
wanting to be presenting that consistent what we sometimes call
parental alliance. You know, parents are united together as one,
whether they're biological or step parents, and if and that
has to be done quite I think that probably in
(16:08):
blended families needs to be done more explicitly maybe than
in a biological family, because biological family it's kind of like, well,
of course you are you kind of like. But even
biological families, you know, kids are often trying to not maliciously,
but you know, we all look for the weaker link.
Speaker 7 (16:24):
I ask.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
I think I'll ask mum for this one, because I
don't think Dad's going to say yes.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
So that's quite normal.
Speaker 6 (16:31):
You know, that's just teenagers trying to get their own way,
and that's pretty normal.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
So really, I think hugely.
Speaker 6 (16:37):
Important to lay that foundation of two parents regardless of
biological step we are together.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
We are the foundation, we are the base. We are
together in this.
Speaker 6 (16:48):
And yep, teenagers, we expect teenagers to kick against authority.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
That's what teenagers do.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
And they're going to say nasty things to you, like
you're not my real parent, or they say nasty things
to they're biological parents. So so try to try not
to internalize that too much.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Yeah, yeah, I get the feeling. For for all the
adults in the equation, you've really just got to you've
just got to forget it's not about you for a while,
whether you be the biological parent or the step parent,
just take it easy and put yourself, put your own
offended feelings out of the picture for a while, because
otherwise that's.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Just well, you know, I think it is you know
one of those psychologists things, isn't it Well, well, that's a
good moment for you to roll model something. But it is,
you know, it's a good it's a good opportunity for
you as an adult to really role model good emotional
regulation of your own because yeah, kids and the kids
are going to really great you at times, and yeah,
(17:49):
and we.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Need to do that. So I think it's really good.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Okay, We're going to take a quick break, come back.
We'd love to say from you if you've got any
stories about, you know, adapting to a new family situation
with step kids and step parents and how you made
the transition or the challenges you faced, because you know
it's it is. Parenting itself is hard enough forgetting the
challenges that stepparents face. We'd love to hear from you.
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty text nine to nine two.
(18:14):
It's coming up to twenty four past five News Talks
d B.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Tim Beveridge on the weekend Connective call. Oh eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty us talk said.
Speaker 7 (18:25):
From me on the dover shide of Wishy Nay Nami
Ja Danail's.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
Dy yes to you.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
There's a party down town, your future me everybody had barket.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Y's welcome back to the parents Quiet. I'm the Tim Beverage.
My guest is Google's Google do souther London slept at
the tongue there. Anyway, we're talking about the challenges of
being a stepparent. Are there any golden rules you've learned?
And we want to hear your your have your calls
on if you've got any advice for people on forming
a new family. Michael, Hello, Hi guys, there, you're going good.
Speaker 8 (19:01):
Thanks, Sorry recently, I'm sure on the flip side of
what you're talking about, but I am. I have three
small boys, a four year old and two under two
year old twin boys as well. Now, I've recently gone
through a breakup and today we had a birthday party
(19:24):
for the oldest boy and the partner of my ex
was there, so I just sort of, I guess, I
don't know, I felt a bit, I just felt weird
about it. Yeah, I'm just not sure how to navigate
through that sort of situation. And he looked like he
(19:45):
was good with the boy. It was quite sad to
see when he turned up to see the boys to
go running to him, which I guess is a good thing,
but for me at the same time, it hurts.
Speaker 6 (19:55):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Michael, I think from what you've said,
you're in a really tough position. But actually I think,
you know, if we're putting the kids best interests, then
you you know, if this this other guy is in
is in their life, then you know, you want them
(20:15):
to have a positive relationship with them. But I can
only imagine what it must be. That it must be
bloody gutting, you know, to see your kids run to
another guy and it's like, oh my god, I'm your dad,
and yeah, my heart goes out here, really mate, And
but but I think I think it's I think it's
probably a good thing for the kids, and I think it,
(20:36):
but I think it is important for you to be
able to have the opportunity to talk with whoever it is,
somebody important in your life where you can actually say that, say, look,
you know what, it's probably good for the kids, but
it sucks for me and I'm bloody hurting about it.
And I reckon you probably need that space to be
able to say that. And maybe that's through friends or
(20:57):
family or whatever, but just somebody there that can actually
hear your grief, because I think it's probably a bit
of a grieving you losing something. Perhaps you're losing being
the only person in their life or the only male
role model, but you know, and that's that's.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
That's a valid feeling.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
And you know your job is to protect your kids
from that a bit so that they can have a
good relationship. But I think it's really important for you
to be able to have a space somewhere to be
able to unload that for you.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Actually, Michael, I'm actually really glad you've called, because I
think sometimes when we have these discussions about the right
way of doing something, we forget that there's actually sort
of pain involved, isn't it.
Speaker 8 (21:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely definitely. I just guess with the
young boys through, they're so young, they're not even too yet,
and I just I feel like, potentially I'm losing my
Griffin being a father, even though I do have an
system system.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, how do they? I mean, are you how are you?
How do you feel about your own connection? Because yeah,
what's your How are you feeling to be connections?
Speaker 8 (22:06):
Yeah, it's really great. I mean when we're together, we're
always to have a blast. It's just just to see
that today, you know, I can't stop her from moving
on this, you know. Yeah, it was just it was
just hard to see it like in front of.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
You like that. Oh that sounds really tough. I guess
the question I have while we've got your Michael Doogle
is and I don't know, because when you try and
rationalize these things, of course, it's it's not meant to
dismiss anything. But is it right to say that? Because
what I think is intuitively that Michael might be feeling,
(22:45):
is that a level of love that his kids have
for him, that some of that is having to be
given away to someone else. Whereas if I was to
put on my sort of optimistic hat, it's actually the
love that they that they have for their dad is
exactly the same, and they just happen to be forming
also more affection for someone else, But it has no
(23:07):
detraction on his equation. Is that something that.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
I've worked with parents and families and kids for, you know,
over twenty years, and my experience has been that kids
always always know who their biological parents are, and they
always have a special role in children's life. And as
you say to them, it's not that there isn't It's
not like there's a maximum amount of affection or love
that kids have in their in their life and they
(23:36):
if they give out some to someone else, they have
to give out less to everyone else.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Yeah, it's not like a cake. Where is that right, Michael?
That intuitively it does feel like that that somebody's taken
a slice of your cake?
Speaker 8 (23:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel And I also I
feel a bit greedy for feeling like that, because yeah,
I know they need another They're going to get another
figure in your life, whether I want it or not.
So I just I do feel a bit greedy for
feeling the way.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
But mate, I just think that you. I think your
honest expression of why you're feeling is a really positive thing.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, me too. Yeah, I think it's really good.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
I think it's you know, I can hear the battle
that you're going through, and that is that's a real
sort of struggle. It's but you know, my experience is
that biological parents are kids always, always, always, Even when
biological parents haven't been there, you know that there's something
special and unique and I doubt that you'll ever lose that.
(24:39):
And yeah, kids will, kids can, you know, have plenty
of people in their lives, but my experience has been
at biological parents, both mum and dad always a special role,
regardless of house.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Is in their life.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
I hope that sort of helps, Michael, And given that
you've shared it with us, I hope you've got someone
you can also quietly talk to.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Yeah, good on you, mate. I think look that's a no.
I thought that's an awesome call. For Michael, just for
his honesty, but I think it helps us hone in
on what the real one of the big issues is
is because as I said before, we can get caught
up with sort of painting a picture and this is
what you should do and stuff, and yet the emotional pain. Yeah,
it's just trying to find a context for that, isn't it.
(25:26):
Let's take another call Peter, Hello, Yes.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
Good afternoon or evening, almost listening to your previous caller there,
and I would offer my experience. I went through a
similar situation, but I'd come from a broken home myself,
where my parents separated when I was two, and I
know the pain that in grief that's caused by having
(25:54):
to choose between an ex partner or an ex parent
and your present parent. And all I can suggest to
that my experience.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Was it.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
This first experience was at a swimming sports and when
the kids came out of the water, they had to
choose did they go to my ex wife and her
new partner or did they come to me? And I
found that a very painful experience to go through. So
I Withdrew made a conscious decision to withdraw from attending
(26:29):
any of those sort of functions and now sort of
fifty years down the track, I'm enjoying a very good
relationship with both my son and my daughter.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Did you need to withdraw? Was it just changing your expectations?
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Well, no, I knew the pain that came with the
separated parents and having to choose. And I can quote
an experience at night seven o'clock being put to bed,
my father knocked on the door and my mother invited
(27:13):
them in, and I had to make a choice. Was
I going to go with my father or was I
going to stay with my mother? And my younger brother
was beside me, and I had to try and keep
both parents happy. The answer, what's the answer that you
(27:33):
would give?
Speaker 6 (27:36):
I think that's yeah, And I think that's really back
to front. I think that that that's that is a
completely impossible position for a child to be, and they're
simply not capable of being able to make that decision.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
But I think that's where parents.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Have to stand up as adults and say, look, even
though you and I no longer want to live together anymore,
and our marriage is over or our relationships over, we
still have a responsibility to raise these kids. And it
is not it's our role as adults and as parents
to be making the best decisions for their children, and
(28:11):
you simply can't let children decide. It's not it's not
fair on kids. They can't do it, and they will
end up tied up in guilt for a very long
time because they think they've made the right decision or
the wrong decision, but it actually it shouldn't have been
their decision in the first place. So kind of my
heart goes out topeter around having to be in that
(28:32):
position and about you know, your experience of having to
withdraw from your own kids. It's great to hear that
you've got a good relationship now, but you know, it's
it's it's actually parents that need or the adults that
need to come together. And unfortunately, I think that sometimes
goes out the window in a separation, and I get why,
but actually it's an adult's responsibility and parents' responsibility to
(28:56):
do this the best interests of their kids rather than
let a child decide, because it's impossible for a child.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
He by the way, for Michael and anyone is in
Michael's situation anyway, We've had quite a few texts just
in solidarity in a positive way. I mean some people
even want to get your number, Michael, because Chris is
in the same boat as you. Great care from Michael.
Loved Dishonesties probably helped a lot of people who are
going through the same thing. I love your show. That's
from Carolyn. Thank you for that, Carolyn, and for Michael.
(29:25):
Never doubt you are the most important male role model
in your children's lives. You'll see that in years to come.
Just be constant and it will get easier. You sound
like an awesome dad. I think that dad's just I
just I think that dads just need that sort of
that sort of reassurance, don't they that you know, it's
a common Yeah.
Speaker 6 (29:45):
I think they do, and I think I think often
my experience has been that dads feel a little bit
unconfident and as though they are the sort of the
second fiddle and that they should just step back.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
And maybe that's because they haven't had that experience themselves.
Speaker 6 (30:01):
But yeah, I think that that text that you read
out there to was really said, Well, it's just that
you're going to just be constant and hang in there
and just keep going back and you will experience it
later on, but you do have to get through the
hard stuff to get there.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yeah, and I think the other point that, I mean,
I'm luckily I'm not in that situation, but I think that, Yeah,
when people think that, when if somebody else is getting
affection that, don't think of it as taking away from yours.
It's just.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
That there's no sort of maximum amount.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
There's no as you said it nicely before, it's not
a it's not a limited cake that once you give
out one piece it's less. It's just it keeps going.
And you think about that when there's calls or whatever.
New people come into that into the relationship, new brothers
and sisters, new grandparents or whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Hey, there's heaps of love.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
To go rund Well, that's actually the classic. The classic
example is counseling little kids who are not used to
an extra sibling. It's like, mommy and daddy are going
to love me even less.
Speaker 6 (30:59):
No, they're not.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
In fact, that's quite a good way to think of it.
That if you're a parent having an extra child and
the child was thinking, but hang on, are you going
to love me as much because you're giving love, and
you just realized, no, no, it's just it's just more.
Speaker 6 (31:10):
It's just more to do and at the same time
natural to feel like that, but but yeah, keep going.
There's not a limited amount of love that can go out.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Good stuff. Let's go to Ken get a.
Speaker 7 (31:22):
Hi there, Kim. I've got a great story. Actually I'm
a key with But I was living in Sydney in
the mid seventies and I had, I guess, an unplanned
pregnancy and missus venture a next girlfriend. We sort of
met up a while after we broke up to go
(31:44):
to a one plus one party. She needed a partner
and asked me if i'd go anyway, long story short
where we ended up having one for the road, as
that were, and she felt pregnant and I her parents
became involved and I was sort of told that I
was said nothing to do with with the that they
(32:05):
would raise it as their own and they wouldn't cause
any problem providing I corporated and just sort of back
down of the whole scenario. So I did, because I
was quite young myself and I didn't want to, you know,
my family's up, so I agreed to that. So we
never met her. I never saw her, but I was
(32:26):
allowed to bring them my daughter when she was born.
I do, but like I said, I was young, and
it was pretty complicated because the mother of the gil
but fell pregnant, I was actually her boss at work.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
This is getting this is getting quite complicated beyond the
stepparents situation. But I might I just ask a Doogle,
have you got any input on this one?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (32:52):
Look, I think you know, I've heard those sorts of
sad tales before in terms of you know, grandparents stepping in.
But you know, I think I think you know, parents
do have a biological role and duty to play in
their children's life. And actually children have just as much
right to have access to their biological parents. And I
(33:15):
think that's really important that even you know, and maybe
those grandparents were I'm sure they had the best interest
of everybody at heart, but actually biological parents are biological parents,
and they've got rights to their kids under most circumstances.
And kids also have rights to know that who their
biological parents are and to know who their mums and
(33:35):
dads are. It's an important part of figuring us. Figuring
out who you are is knowing who my parents are
and having some contact with them if that's possible.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Thanks for you, Corl, I really appreciate it. Ken actually
somebody's texted saying in the seventies it was quite common
for the kids having to choose. This persient says, I
was teaching a little eight year old or older sister
and who chose to go with father because he had
the car and they'd have to walk everywhere if they
stay with mum. Yeah, well, I mean that's a terrible stootment.
(34:05):
We have moved on, but I mean I would imagine
that most people get advice and please don't make the
children shop.
Speaker 6 (34:13):
It's I hope we've moved on, and I've certainly heard
those stories too, but it's just impossible for and it's
a it's actually I think it's an it's parents not
being able to step up and do their job as parents.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
You can't ask a child to do that.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
As an example you gave, they make the decision based
on who's got the nice car or who hasn't got
the nice car.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
So no, it's you can't put children in that position
to choose.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Actually, by the way, just quickly because we have to
wrap up in a second Google. But it's probably still
a dilemma when parents do actually have a chat with
teenagers when they've only got two or three more years
at home, probably you should still avoid that, shouldn't you.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Look In many ways, I think so.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
I think it's I think as kids get older, they
will have more say in it, but ultimately it's still
a parentce parents need to come together around it, and
it's it's still even when kids are, you know, under eighteen,
it's still very difficult for them to be in that
position to choose because they are ultimately rejecting one and
accepting another.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
And that's that's not a position they should be in.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Excellent, Hey doogle. Time flies when you're having fun. But
thank you so much for your time, and also to
our callers and texters for texting and your support for
Michael and Michael for calling and your other callers.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, that was That was a great call, wasn't it
for you?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks It'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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