It seems getting sleep has become more of a regimented routine than ever.
Limit exercise before bed, practice meditation, use this app, take this supplement, sleep in this position ...
There's advice coming at us from all different directions - but do we just need to chill out and take the pressure off?
Are all the methods and sleep tracking devices just another distraction?
Dr Alex Bartle from Sleep Well Clinic talks with Tim Beveridge for the Health Hub.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SIB. Yes,
welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage and
this is well we've moved on from politics. By the way,
if you've missed any of the politics and can go
and check our podcast out on News Talks he Beat
at cenz or on iHeartRadio. But right now it's time
for the health up. And actually, if you not this
(00:26):
news but an hour ago, you might have actually heard
a clip with my next guest who was commenting on
something we're going to touch on. We are actually really
current with our topics today because you might have heard
from this story at three o'clock that there are concerns
that people are becoming obsessed with sleep tracking and watch devices.
And yeah, there's we're going to have take your calls
(00:48):
on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine to
nine two. I guess because possibly people might see sleeper
is becoming more of a regimented routine than ever, or
maybe it's because we're so desperate to get more sleep,
we're not getting enough and so we're so focused on
our routine. You know. Yet, advice from limiting exercise before bed,
practicing meditation, use this app, take this supplement, sleep in
(01:12):
this position. So there's advice coming up at us from
all sorts of directions. But is there something we just
need to just I don't know. It's difficult to say,
isn't when somebody says, just relax, just chill out, don't
worry about it, take the pressure off. But of course
that is the most annoying thing you can ever say
to someone who's stressed about ninety you're not getting a
good knife sleep sleep. You just say, well, just stop
worrying about it. If I could stop worrying about it,
(01:34):
I'd be asleep. So are there methods and are sleep
tracking devices? Are they just another distraction? So discuss to
discuss all that, and we'd love to take your calls
if you've got any issues with your sleep questions or otherwise,
give us a call on eight hundred and eighty ten A.
There's even a story I saw recently when we're going
to touch on it because it was the news recently
(01:55):
about sleeping positions and are some sleeping positions better for others?
But anyway, all of that, but we're going to have
a chat first about the sleep tracking devices and another
methods of tracking your sleep and joining us as sleep
well Clin next, doctor Alex Bartell. We heard him just
an hour ago, and here he is in the studio. Alex,
how are you good to very good?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
You know I always ask you, did you sleep well
last night?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Pretty well? Actually?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
If I can't, I know what to do. That's the difference.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, I had a terrible no. No, no, no, no,
I'm lying. I don't know, I'm lying. I'm not quite
telling it right. I had quite a good sleep up
to the moment that I woke up, which was probably
around five ish, and that wasn't nearly an our sleep,
five point thirty maybe, And I lay therefore, you know,
the number of times I think of you when I'm
sleeping as ridiculous. Because I was flat, there'd be quite
(02:47):
a few. I mean, of course, that'd be the thing
with you. People who see you're sleep clinic, they'd wake
up in the morning and the first thing that pops
into the earth probably. But I lay there and I thought, oh, okay,
I think if I can just think happy thoughts, just relax,
and you know, just see if your mind switches up.
But then my mind started ticking over and I think, look,
(03:10):
I'm up. It could have been forty five minutes, you
know a time who knows what the time is. And
then I thought, oh, stuff it, I'll just get up,
open the curtains, got up, got moving, and actually it
wasn't such a bad move.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
A good move always a physical activity. If you really
get stressed out, and let's face a lot of people
within somebody get really stressed out about that, then move,
get up, walk around. The process that we usually talk
about now is just ten or fifteen minutes. Fifteen minutes
is probably.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
All you need at six o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
That's why time to get up anyway. Yeah, but if
it's like two or three in the morning, then get
up fifteen minutes, just calm down, do some physical activity
like just walking around, writing down anything that's on your mind,
and then get back into it. And they've shown that
it's very effective seventy five percent of people in this.
You don't have to do it very often, but occasionally
I do, and it works really well.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Because I didn't get to sleep till probably about half
past eleven, so for me, five o'clock was way to
five thirty. Well, what it was. I think I got
up just after in the end. But you know, let's
not haggle over the details, but there would be a
time when you actually just have to get up, isn't it.
So obviously it was four o'clock. Yeah, okay, I'd be
definitely trying to get to sleep, and I'd get really
(04:19):
bloody annoyed that I wasn't sleeping. But anyway i'd get up,
I might.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
So one of the downsides to look at the clock, though,
tim So if we look at the clock, then we
know what the time is and we can get anxious
about it. You know, if it's only one o'clock, or
I've only just fallen asleep and it's I'm awaken and
I shouldn't be, or it's four thirty. I've got to
get up soon, so I, you know, stop looking that
it's dark, the lights are out, it's done nighttime, the
alarm hasn't gone off. Go back to sleep. Then if
(04:44):
you can't get back, sally, then you get out of
bed and just cheer check it out for ten to
fifty minutes, and then you can go back.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Maybe it was six thirty, because I think that was
one of the things that motivated me was I could
see there was a little bit of light peeking through,
and I thought, ah, yes, damn it.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yes. And I think the other thing to say is
that you know, if we only get an hour sleep,
so what you know, I don't panic about not again.
We all know that we get terrible sleep. I mean
thinking mums with young babies, for example, you know they're
chronically not getting enough, and yet they get up and
do the work the next day. They don't like it.
And you know when I missed out on sleep as
a young doctor, for example, you know, you just get
(05:19):
on get the next day and get on with it.
So you're not going to die just because you only
had an our sleep. But we do panic about it,
and that's not that's I think it's difficult.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
All the annoyance or the frustration is that we don't
operate at at our top when we're short of sleep,
and we want that, and so that's why you're like,
damn it, I really need. For instance, I'm doing the
breakfast show. I'll be on at six o'clock tomorrow. Funny
enough because I'll be keyed up for that because the
adrenaline pumps through. But I mean there's a sort of
(05:47):
point where you know you need a certain amount of
sleep because you've just got to be functioning at a
pretty efficient level.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
It's really interesting. We see some elite athletes who are
about to do their big swim or their big race
in the morning and they don't sleep. They often only
get a narratives because they're really keyed up. But if
they've had lots of sleep for the week weeks before,
there is to be well slipped in having that set
the adrenaline certainly will take them through.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Can you bank sleep not well, I've had six nights.
Actually no, let's not get carried away. Say if I've
had two or three nights really blooming good sleep, fantastic,
and then I have a rubbish night's sleep, does that
previous three days so it will help help me?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It's the chronic in somebody, it's the chronic. Not sleep
enough is the dangerous one.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Okay, let's get on to I'm dying to talk about
sleep positions as well, because I think that's fascinating. But devices,
because we've talked about devices and smart watches and all
that sort of thing. I don't have a smart watch.
I've got a nice watch which I but if I
really want to signal to my body that I want
to take a good nap sleep, I take the watch
(06:53):
off and it's almost like, I know it's the subconscious signal.
But devices that track your sleep, I wonder if they're
more of a pain on the backside than you look.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Any technology has a good and bad side to it,
and that's certainly the case for these, And we're not
going to get rid of it because people who want
to know what's going on with this sleep. The problem
is that people do get obsessed with it, There's no
question about that, and they keep looking at the watch.
If it's a watch, then you can look at it.
If you lose us one called the Aora ring, then
you can't keep looking at it because it's you'll ring
on your finger and you only look at that in
(07:24):
the morning. So that's got a slight advantage.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
But but does does the act of tracking your sleep?
As a layperson's just like, I just want to know
what my sleep is? Is there something about that that's
I mean, it's useful for you. You get your clients, customers,
clients to patients. Company, what's the word what is it
these days?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Patience?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
For you, it's at all, So you'd give them something
to put on so you could get data because you
can understand it. But I maybe it's a personality top
But I think if I was tracking it, i'd become
quite Yeah, you get hopped into it and it becomes
another source of stress.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I think the key factor is the people don't know
how to interpret it. Yeah, they're coming and say, look,
I'm only getting you know, eighteen or twenty percent of
deep non room sleep. That's terrible. I need to you know,
a whole lot more. No, you don't. And I hate
the difference between deep non rem sleep and light sleep.
Light sleep just as important. It's different doing different things
in the brain and the body, and so people need
(08:22):
to know how to interpret it. That's part of the
problem is the interpretation of it. And also, you know,
they say on the watch, all more watches I slip
for seven hours last night. I didn't think I did,
so the watch must be wrong, you know. So you know,
and the watches aren't that accurate. There's probably about seventy
percent accurate.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
So what's the importance of light sleep?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Oh, it's a brain function, emotionality, memory, consolidation, learning, So
a whole lot of really important things. What about the
deep sleep, Well, eighty percent of our sleep is light sleep.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, that's normal. Oh okay, I don't feel so bad
now are we?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Were?
Speaker 3 (08:55):
We?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I mean, can that even include being sort of a we?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
When you that's the rams sleep, when we're very light sleep,
our light sleep, ramsleep rapid imand sleep is very light
and our brain is as active in rem sleep as
it is in quite wakefulness. So our brain is very active.
It's just that we can dream. We recall dreams from
that because it's very light sleep and we can't move.
So there's something quite major going on when we're dreaming,
(09:19):
but we can't move, so there's interesting things that that's.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Why we have the dreams that you're trying to run
away from something that just can't. The monster's chasing. You're like,
come on, why my legs not moving?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's right, called sleep paralysis, that's exactly right. And yet
in deep sleep, you know, we can move. In the
deep non riomsuit, we can move. We can that's where
sleepwalking and night terrors happen. So that's usually the more
towards the beginning of the night. But so you know,
just knowing how to interpret it is important. And so
some of these devices now do give information on that.
(09:49):
You know, they score it a little bit. But getting
obsessed with it is really quite quite not a good idea,
should we say?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
So, what do you advise people if they have got
a sleep tracking app? I mean, of course I would
tend to think, look, unless you've got a problem. I mean,
you want to be able to get information for someone else,
ignore them because what's the point. What's the point is
it just giving an excuse to be in a grumpy mode.
I'm just being done because I've only had so many
hours sleep.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, I mean the point that I'd say, well, every
now and then, it's quite interesting. I mean, let's fay see,
we want to know what's in so it's quite interesting.
So do it every now and then, you know, once
a month or once a week if you want to.
But keep on looking at all the time and then
try to analyze it is not helpful. It doesn't help
you sleep. We said, let's put it that way. If
we want to help us sleep, we need to get
rid of the clocks.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
If I was you, I'd be I'd be thinking that.
Here I am, I'm the sleep doctor. I'm from the
Sleep World Clinic, and I'm not sleeping well at the moment,
I would have extra anxiety because of all people, I
need to be able to nail the sleeping well.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, I mean, that's the one thing that's going to
make it much worse. Of course, if we try to sleep.
The more we try to sleep, the worse we have
to allow ourselves to sleep. So instead of making ourselves,
we have to calm down so that were the brain
can take over and put to sleep.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Should you Okay? So I think that what happened to
a lot of people. You've had You've had a big day,
you get you go home, you get some dinner, you're
sitting there, You've still got a few routines but maybe
to go through. But say eight o'clock rolls out. I'm
talking to myself here, but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone,
and you actually doze off into quite a nice sleep,
and I tend to wonder should I have actually gone
(11:28):
to bed then? Because you know, you can sometimes feel
irresistibly tired, and then you close your eyes inevitably of
fifteen twenty minutes till someone bangs you on the knee
and says, oh, put the kids to bed. No, they
don't tell me to go bad to go and put
the do my daughter's to bed or something. Should I
have gone to bed?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Probably not?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Why well, because you're not really your body's not quite
ready to go to sleep. Sleep read two processes. Okay,
process is your home you static process, which is your sleepiness.
The longer we stay awake, the sleep a we come.
So if you're up early in the morning as you
are off working hard, and then your sleepiness is going
to be quite high at seven or eight nine o'clock
(12:08):
at night, but your circadian process is quite different. Circadian
process your internal temperature corba temperatures rising in the evening.
So a lot of people, particularly we see this for
teenagers and early twenties, do their best work at nine, ten,
eleven o'clock at night. The problem we're going to sleep
at eight o'clock at night is that you get rid
of that sleepiness because you slept for half an hour
(12:29):
and suddenly you're up.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That's about a nap and you're a wake for wa
age is exactly right. So should I resist the nap?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Probably? Yeah, get up and walk around, take your daughter
off the bed, sort of sort that out. And try
not to fall asleep.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Well, actually, actually that's one of those blissful times. You know.
I often help them debrief on the day, I ll
have a chat. But then sometimes it's like, Daddy, you're
falling asleep.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Well for you, of course, because you're a morning person,
generally you have to be often. Then you will be
fading pretty early on in the evening.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Questions about your challenges of getting a good night sleep,
I'd love to hear from you. Hi, can you ask Alex.
I have this problem where I go to sleep and
I know I'm tired, However I feel myself. Ah, I
feel myself going to sleep before waking up like twenty
to thirty minutes later. Then I can't get back to
sleep for one or two hours, even though I know
I'm tired. I find I have to get up and
move around and do something to get back to sleep.
(13:23):
Any help would be great. Cheers.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Well, I'd have to see you doing the right thing,
because if you can't sleep, there's no point in line
there stressing about it. So if you had a bit
of sleep, say that's a bonus. I've had a bit
of sleep. I've had an hour sleep, not the end
of the world. Let's get up and go for a
little bit of a walk around the house, write down
anything that's on your mind particularly, and then maybe an
hour later, go back.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
To a bit.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Normally, if it's in the middle of the night, we'd
say you get up for only fifteen minutes or so.
But if it's early in the night and it's only
sort of nine o'clock ten o'clock at night, then maybe
wait a little bit longer.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I think that that's one of the I've come across
people who have said this is their problem as well.
But when I'm anxious about sleeping and I managed to
wind my mind down, then there's a part of my
mind that something goes, oh you're almost there, or you're
almost there, and then a bloody will.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Wake up again.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
The classic one is you know you're reading a book
and you're in bed and you're reading BOK and you think, oh,
I'm really tired. I think I read to see you
put the book down. A ping on goes your brain.
It's that the wrong what we call behavioral condition response.
The response should be head down.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Go to sleep. How do you how do you change
your behavioral condition? What does that say? It again?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Behavioral condition response. Okay, yeah, so it's a response your
behavior to something external stimulus. It's normally head down, drift
off to sleep in ten or fifteen minutes of the most,
but with a lot of people with insomnia, the very
fact of putting the book down and trying to go
to sleep immediately raises the brain.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Should they just put the book down? Differently, just link
down and pretend they're going to care on reading.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
And it's all really about confidence. Basically most will pick
it up and read again and get a bit more
tired a bit later on. Always try to go a
bit later. So if you're struggling to go to sleep,
go to bed later, don't go to a bit earlier.
Constant kneed you responsive. Most people I see going a
bit earlier if they can't go to sleep. They think,
you know, I go to bed at Classically I go
to bed at ten and i'd actually till midnight. So
(15:19):
most people will say, well, if I go to bed
at nine, I'll sleep at eleven. That'll be better.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Well, it won't walk, I think I do that. I
think if I go to mind you oh.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, if you go to bed at nine and go
to sleep, that's fine. But a lot of people who
can't actually sleep till midnight, it'll just mean they're awake
for longer. So go to bed at midnight, get used
to going to bed at midnight and go to sleep,
and then you can go to bed at quarter to midnight.
Maybe help past eleven go to bed a little bit elter.
But this time you've got confident. Sleep's all about confidence.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
What about eating? Are there particular foods you should avoid
or is it the fact of eating you should avoid.
I've heard that cheese and peanuts give you nightmares. I
don't know if that's true.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, the study I read was actually run by a
cheese company, which we have to take with a pinch
of salt with a chin cheese. So no, and they
said it didn't make any difference, So of.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Course they did. Cheese company. Apparently it's fine just before
Actually it's one of my guilty snacks. I do quite
like a little bit of cheese late at night.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Likewise, or sleep doesn't fit most sleep.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Oh, you probably have the posh cheese. I have that
sort of orange thing that.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
The ordinary cheesewe salty cheese is. What does it for me? No? Really,
it's what you eat basically a big food, your gut
doesn't work well at night. So having a big meal
before you go to bed, or having lots of food
in your gut at night doesn't help sleep. We designed
to have a gut relatively empty when you go to sleep,
So snake is okay, but not a big meal. Will
(16:52):
you like to say, have your main meal at least
three hours before you got to go to bed.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Are the effects of things like coffee overstated? You've gone
out for dinner, you have a post, you know, a
coffee sometimes maybe.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Or for some people get It's very variable with people,
but some people of coffee and even twelve hours later
they can't sleep. So some people metabolize it very slowly.
But the normal half life or active life of caffeine
is about five to eight hours, quite a long time.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
That is quite a long time. Tis so as a
rule of thumb, lunchtime, if you had a coffee, fine,
but after.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
That that's about right. If you're having trouble with sleep,
trying to avoid cafe or do cake decaf if you like,
and remember the caffeine also in things like chocolate, so
you know, hot chocolate before you go to bed. Nice
soothing drink, but it's actually got caffeine in it. So
if you're having trouble, what about milk?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Actually I have every now and you're gonna want who
really wanted to signal to myself? I want to get
to sleep. I've microwaved a cup of milk with maybe
a teaspoon of honey in it.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, okay, I mean it's a nice that's just a signal,
a signal. The chemistry behind that is basically it's got
a trip to fan in it, and the tripp to
fan converts to five hydroctory trip to fan, which you
can buy over the counters five htp. People within somebody
will know that five htp About the counter that converts
to serotonin? Yeah, hybatrix trip, I mean, and that converts
(18:08):
to melotone. So the theory is you have milk and
it'll eventually end up being melotone and to help you sleep.
The reality is even taking melotone probably doesn't make it lot.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Well, you can't get melatonin except the homeopathic one, which
is basically expensive water. Yeah, exactly, sorry homeopaths, but that's
you know, diluted are hundred? What is it? It's you
diluted by one hundred thirty times. I think that's what
they call thirty C and supposed to be more potent.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
But yeah, drop it in the swimming pool and you'll
knock your socks off.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, that's a lot of water. What about real melatonin?
Can you? Is that prescribable? Is it? Because some people
get it from overseas bringing back because.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
What's the melatonin is is a what we're call a chronobiotic,
so it's actually not a sleeping tablet. It's a soper
effic so it calms people down a little bit possibly,
and that's why it's used for ADHD and AASD children
for example, which is quite effective. But the study done
by the Circadian two milligrams slow release products that it
(19:06):
didn't really make any difference under fifty five year olds.
So it's prescribed for older people largely because they're pineal gland,
which is where we produce melatonin, doesn't work very well
as we get older. So boosting your melotony lovers does
help a bit. But you know, if you want to,
it's okay for jet lag because it's it alters you're
(19:26):
cicaed into them to some degree, so you use jet
lag sometimes.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Helps Okay, here's we've got a couple of calls coming.
We'll get to those in the second. Hi, as a
forty nine year old piram meenopausal woman really struggling with
getting to sleep and waking up numerous times a night,
often for all periods. Any suggestions, many things?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, I mean this is where HRT can be very
useful if you're allowed to PRESFERM replacement for and replacement therapy. Yeah,
as long as there's no cancer in family, breast cancer,
over a cancer, what have you. But it is, it
is helpful, and so get rid of those flushes at night,
which are very common.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Is that something people can people is common and pyramid
very common? Yes, it does because a body temperature and
things like that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Rhythms all over the place. And remember, as I mentioned earlier,
your body temperature is actually crucial for your sleep and
week and so if that's disrupted because of menopause, were
flushing and whatever, you then that impact on your sleep
as well.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
What about sleep, I'll actually tell you what. I've got
so many questions. I've got more questions than usually. I
don't know why. I must be really obsessed with my
sleep right now. But we're going to take. Oh and
I just before we go to our callers another text
to your high. But recently been diagnosed with moderate heart
disease and I need a stint. I have had trouble
with getting to sleep up a few nightmares as well.
They only started after taking the statins. I wake up
exhausted like I have no sleep, usually go to bed
(20:45):
around eleven o'clock. I appreciate your advice on the sets
from Barbara.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, I think having cardiovascular problems stinting does suggest that
the blood vessels all around your body are probably not
quite as wide open as they might be. But quite
this is going to impact on your sleep. I'm not
sure apart from anxiety. Am I going to have a
heartder take in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Because I don't think she's head the stint. But what
about stats? She asked about steps stettins. It can affect
people in different ways. I mean the most common are
they're the things to reduce your cholesterol, okay, right, And
the most common side of it from those is the
mi algia is the muscle pain. But if you think
it might be causing some dreaming and some nightmares, then
(21:28):
there are alternatives. There are different stettens and different ways
of reducing your cholesterol. Stettins are the most effective and
the most commonly used, but there are other options as well.
So you what were we going to now, let's go
to Stuart.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Hello, Yeah, good afternoon, guys. My wife has af and
goes out to rhythm now and again and is very
conscious of it inso much as you know, it creates
little panic attacks that she can't get to sleep with.
(22:01):
And we'll stay awake till two in the morning reading
and then we'll take a quarter of a sleeping pill
and fall asleep. And she's really concerned that sleeping pills
can be addictive. Are they addictive? Or is that an
old wife's tale?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well, the addiction part of it really is the fact
that she has to take something to go to sleep.
So it's very much a psychological addiction because there really
isn't very much chemical in a quarter of a zopocal
and if that's what she's taking, but very you know,
you take a few crumbs and you put it in
your mouth, you taste that bit of taste all well
now and go to sleep and you don't think that
it's your placebo effect, you know, this going something to
(22:46):
help you sleep. And anything you take to sleep, whether
it's something that's homeopathic or really is just a non
medicare medication, if it helps you sleep for whatever reason
it's you're told it's going to help you sleep, then
you need to use that is I can't do it.
I need this thing to help me sleep. And so
that's what we and a lot of time doing is
trying to get people confident that they can do it themselves.
(23:09):
And so the whole lot of strategies we use to
try and get people off medication. Generally, you know, occasional
use of zopic and fine, absolutely brilliant. It's a very
good sleeping tablet. But to use it regularly is not
going to be helpful.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Okay, okay, thanks, thanks Jerked, good stuff. Quick text onst
and says Cheapers. What did Alex say was the statistics
of getting Parkinson's if your parents has it? Did you
mention a stand No.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I didn't say anything about Parkinson's. No, it's nothing to
do with Parkinson's. It's restless leg syndrome. I was saying
was ten percent of the population.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
I think you mentioned that some people. I can't remember that.
I did hear.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
No, I say the bottom the endpoint of low dopamin
levels is much the same, but the reason for getting
to the low dopamin levels is completely different.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Another question here, what about having a bit of nook
at you before you go to sleep? Does that actually help?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Or or yes, it certainly does. We produce a particularly
the orgasm.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
We produce it.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
This lovely hormone.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
The hormone you're trying and think what it is now,
it's the tip of the tongue. Tell you what in
the tongue. We'll find out.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
We produce this lovely hormone and that helps to sleep.
So yes, it's a good idea.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
We'll find out oxytocin the a other ways of generating
oxytocin rather than.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
You've probably taken into a pill. But it's not nearly
as much.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
No, it's not. Actually, I guess it's a fair point.
We'll be back with your calls in just a moment.
It's twenty one minutes to five.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
News Talk said be extra.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Now, why he didn't use Delta, United, Immirates Singapore air Lines.
I've got no idea, but he chose the chatterms to
well exactly the three or four direct flights every day
for goodness sake anyway, So he takes the Chathams and
it's the weirdest thing I've bought. I've mentioned this before,
but I've never understood why people serve food on planes
in this country. This is not America. It doesn't take
six hours to get anywhere. You don't need to be fed.
(24:58):
What you need is just to sit there quietly and
you will land in about forty minutes, doesn't matter where.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
You're going a bit longer than that, I think on
the kind of they used.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Certainly took it took it took seventy an hour ago
from Auckland to to Wangenua. So they hand out on
the chatams at tim Tam. And not only do they
hand it out of tim Tam, they handed out of
a packet of tim Tam. So Brian or Tracy come
along and they opened the packet. Did they use tongs
They offer you the packet and they say, would you
(25:28):
like a tim Tam?
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Not tongus that they did grab it with a napkin apparently.
Yet that was a news Talk Zebby Extra Your Weekend,
Your Way the Weekend Collective with Tim Beveridge News Talk
Zebby News Talk b Tim Beverage with Alex Bartor from
the Sleepwell Clinic. You can check them out on sleep
well Clinic dot co dot in it. I'm surprised we
(25:50):
haven't gotten too we haven't got onto the sleep out.
Mere think that's one of the that's one of the
old comes up. It does, but stand by who knows
Glenn good E.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Here the afternoon? Just a question My wife and I try.
I got a bit about eleven o'clock at nights. I
could lie and a bit a week for maybe a
couple of hours. She could be asleep within five minutes.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Frustrating.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
Ye yet yeah, yet, If I turned the radio and
listen to a little bit of talk Faircort Talk podcast,
I could drop for.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
More from the weekend collective.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Listen live to news Talk ZB weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SIB. Yes,
welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage and
this is well we've moved on from politics. By the way,
if you've missed any of the politics and can go
and check our podcast out on News Talks he Beat
at cenz or on iHeartRadio. But right now it's time
for the health up. And actually, if you not this
(00:26):
news but an hour ago, you might have actually heard
a clip with my next guest who was commenting on
something we're going to touch on. We are actually really
current with our topics today because you might have heard
from this story at three o'clock that there are concerns
that people are becoming obsessed with sleep tracking and watch devices.
And yeah, there's we're going to have take your calls
(00:48):
on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine to
nine two. I guess because possibly people might see sleeper
is becoming more of a regimented routine than ever, or
maybe it's because we're so desperate to get more sleep,
we're not getting enough and so we're so focused on
our routine. You know. Yet, advice from limiting exercise before bed,
practicing meditation, use this app, take this supplement, sleep in
(01:12):
this position. So there's advice coming up at us from
all sorts of directions. But is there something we just
need to just I don't know. It's difficult to say,
isn't when somebody says, just relax, just chill out, don't
worry about it, take the pressure off. But of course
that is the most annoying thing you can ever say
to someone who's stressed about ninety you're not getting a
good knife sleep sleep. You just say, well, just stop
worrying about it. If I could stop worrying about it,
(01:34):
I'd be asleep. So are there methods and are sleep
tracking devices? Are they just another distraction? So discuss to
discuss all that, and we'd love to take your calls
if you've got any issues with your sleep questions or otherwise,
give us a call on eight hundred and eighty ten A.
There's even a story I saw recently when we're going
to touch on it because it was the news recently
(01:55):
about sleeping positions and are some sleeping positions better for others?
But anyway, all of that, but we're going to have
a chat first about the sleep tracking devices and another
methods of tracking your sleep and joining us as sleep
well Clin next, doctor Alex Bartell. We heard him just
an hour ago, and here he is in the studio. Alex,
how are you good to very good?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
You know I always ask you, did you sleep well
last night?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Pretty well? Actually?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
If I can't, I know what to do. That's the difference.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, I had a terrible no. No, no, no, no,
I'm lying. I don't know, I'm lying. I'm not quite
telling it right. I had quite a good sleep up
to the moment that I woke up, which was probably
around five ish, and that wasn't nearly an our sleep,
five point thirty maybe, And I lay therefore, you know,
the number of times I think of you when I'm
sleeping as ridiculous. Because I was flat, there'd be quite
(02:47):
a few. I mean, of course, that'd be the thing
with you. People who see you're sleep clinic, they'd wake
up in the morning and the first thing that pops
into the earth probably. But I lay there and I thought, oh, okay,
I think if I can just think happy thoughts, just relax,
and you know, just see if your mind switches up.
But then my mind started ticking over and I think, look,
(03:10):
I'm up. It could have been forty five minutes, you
know a time who knows what the time is. And
then I thought, oh, stuff it, I'll just get up,
open the curtains, got up, got moving, and actually it
wasn't such a bad move.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
A good move always a physical activity. If you really
get stressed out, and let's face a lot of people
within somebody get really stressed out about that, then move,
get up, walk around. The process that we usually talk
about now is just ten or fifteen minutes. Fifteen minutes
is probably.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
All you need at six o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
That's why time to get up anyway. Yeah, but if
it's like two or three in the morning, then get
up fifteen minutes, just calm down, do some physical activity
like just walking around, writing down anything that's on your mind,
and then get back into it. And they've shown that
it's very effective seventy five percent of people in this.
You don't have to do it very often, but occasionally
I do, and it works really well.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Because I didn't get to sleep till probably about half
past eleven, so for me, five o'clock was way to
five thirty. Well, what it was. I think I got
up just after in the end. But you know, let's
not haggle over the details, but there would be a
time when you actually just have to get up, isn't it.
So obviously it was four o'clock. Yeah, okay, I'd be
definitely trying to get to sleep, and I'd get really
(04:19):
bloody annoyed that I wasn't sleeping. But anyway i'd get up,
I might.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
So one of the downsides to look at the clock, though,
tim So if we look at the clock, then we
know what the time is and we can get anxious
about it. You know, if it's only one o'clock, or
I've only just fallen asleep and it's I'm awaken and
I shouldn't be, or it's four thirty. I've got to
get up soon, so I, you know, stop looking that
it's dark, the lights are out, it's done nighttime, the
alarm hasn't gone off. Go back to sleep. Then if
(04:44):
you can't get back, sally, then you get out of
bed and just cheer check it out for ten to
fifty minutes, and then you can go back.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Maybe it was six thirty, because I think that was
one of the things that motivated me was I could
see there was a little bit of light peeking through,
and I thought, ah, yes, damn it.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yes. And I think the other thing to say is
that you know, if we only get an hour sleep,
so what you know, I don't panic about not again.
We all know that we get terrible sleep. I mean
thinking mums with young babies, for example, you know they're
chronically not getting enough, and yet they get up and
do the work the next day. They don't like it.
And you know when I missed out on sleep as
a young doctor, for example, you know, you just get
(05:19):
on get the next day and get on with it.
So you're not going to die just because you only
had an our sleep. But we do panic about it,
and that's not that's I think it's difficult.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
All the annoyance or the frustration is that we don't
operate at at our top when we're short of sleep,
and we want that, and so that's why you're like,
damn it, I really need. For instance, I'm doing the
breakfast show. I'll be on at six o'clock tomorrow. Funny
enough because I'll be keyed up for that because the
adrenaline pumps through. But I mean there's a sort of
(05:47):
point where you know you need a certain amount of
sleep because you've just got to be functioning at a
pretty efficient level.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
It's really interesting. We see some elite athletes who are
about to do their big swim or their big race
in the morning and they don't sleep. They often only
get a narratives because they're really keyed up. But if
they've had lots of sleep for the week weeks before,
there is to be well slipped in having that set
the adrenaline certainly will take them through.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Can you bank sleep not well, I've had six nights.
Actually no, let's not get carried away. Say if I've
had two or three nights really blooming good sleep, fantastic,
and then I have a rubbish night's sleep, does that
previous three days so it will help help me?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It's the chronic in somebody, it's the chronic. Not sleep
enough is the dangerous one.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Okay, let's get on to I'm dying to talk about
sleep positions as well, because I think that's fascinating. But devices,
because we've talked about devices and smart watches and all
that sort of thing. I don't have a smart watch.
I've got a nice watch which I but if I
really want to signal to my body that I want
to take a good nap sleep, I take the watch
(06:53):
off and it's almost like, I know it's the subconscious signal.
But devices that track your sleep, I wonder if they're
more of a pain on the backside than you look.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Any technology has a good and bad side to it,
and that's certainly the case for these, And we're not
going to get rid of it because people who want
to know what's going on with this sleep. The problem
is that people do get obsessed with it, There's no
question about that, and they keep looking at the watch.
If it's a watch, then you can look at it.
If you lose us one called the Aora ring, then
you can't keep looking at it because it's you'll ring
on your finger and you only look at that in
(07:24):
the morning. So that's got a slight advantage.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
But but does does the act of tracking your sleep?
As a layperson's just like, I just want to know
what my sleep is? Is there something about that that's
I mean, it's useful for you. You get your clients, customers,
clients to patients. Company, what's the word what is it
these days?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Patience?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
For you, it's at all, So you'd give them something
to put on so you could get data because you
can understand it. But I maybe it's a personality top
But I think if I was tracking it, i'd become
quite Yeah, you get hopped into it and it becomes
another source of stress.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I think the key factor is the people don't know
how to interpret it. Yeah, they're coming and say, look,
I'm only getting you know, eighteen or twenty percent of
deep non room sleep. That's terrible. I need to you know,
a whole lot more. No, you don't. And I hate
the difference between deep non rem sleep and light sleep.
Light sleep just as important. It's different doing different things
in the brain and the body, and so people need
(08:22):
to know how to interpret it. That's part of the
problem is the interpretation of it. And also, you know,
they say on the watch, all more watches I slip
for seven hours last night. I didn't think I did,
so the watch must be wrong, you know. So you know,
and the watches aren't that accurate. There's probably about seventy
percent accurate.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
So what's the importance of light sleep?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Oh, it's a brain function, emotionality, memory, consolidation, learning, So
a whole lot of really important things. What about the
deep sleep, Well, eighty percent of our sleep is light sleep.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, that's normal. Oh okay, I don't feel so bad
now are we?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Were?
Speaker 3 (08:55):
We?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I mean, can that even include being sort of a we?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
When you that's the rams sleep, when we're very light sleep,
our light sleep, ramsleep rapid imand sleep is very light
and our brain is as active in rem sleep as
it is in quite wakefulness. So our brain is very active.
It's just that we can dream. We recall dreams from
that because it's very light sleep and we can't move.
So there's something quite major going on when we're dreaming,
(09:19):
but we can't move, so there's interesting things that that's.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Why we have the dreams that you're trying to run
away from something that just can't. The monster's chasing. You're like,
come on, why my legs not moving?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's right, called sleep paralysis, that's exactly right. And yet
in deep sleep, you know, we can move. In the
deep non riomsuit, we can move. We can that's where
sleepwalking and night terrors happen. So that's usually the more
towards the beginning of the night. But so you know,
just knowing how to interpret it is important. And so
some of these devices now do give information on that.
(09:49):
You know, they score it a little bit. But getting
obsessed with it is really quite quite not a good idea,
should we say?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
So, what do you advise people if they have got
a sleep tracking app? I mean, of course I would
tend to think, look, unless you've got a problem. I mean,
you want to be able to get information for someone else,
ignore them because what's the point. What's the point is
it just giving an excuse to be in a grumpy mode.
I'm just being done because I've only had so many
hours sleep.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, I mean the point that I'd say, well, every
now and then, it's quite interesting. I mean, let's fay see,
we want to know what's in so it's quite interesting.
So do it every now and then, you know, once
a month or once a week if you want to.
But keep on looking at all the time and then
try to analyze it is not helpful. It doesn't help
you sleep. We said, let's put it that way. If
we want to help us sleep, we need to get
rid of the clocks.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
If I was you, I'd be I'd be thinking that.
Here I am, I'm the sleep doctor. I'm from the
Sleep World Clinic, and I'm not sleeping well at the moment,
I would have extra anxiety because of all people, I
need to be able to nail the sleeping well.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, I mean, that's the one thing that's going to
make it much worse. Of course, if we try to sleep.
The more we try to sleep, the worse we have
to allow ourselves to sleep. So instead of making ourselves,
we have to calm down so that were the brain
can take over and put to sleep.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Should you Okay? So I think that what happened to
a lot of people. You've had You've had a big day,
you get you go home, you get some dinner, you're
sitting there, You've still got a few routines but maybe
to go through. But say eight o'clock rolls out. I'm
talking to myself here, but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone,
and you actually doze off into quite a nice sleep,
and I tend to wonder should I have actually gone
(11:28):
to bed then? Because you know, you can sometimes feel
irresistibly tired, and then you close your eyes inevitably of
fifteen twenty minutes till someone bangs you on the knee
and says, oh, put the kids to bed. No, they
don't tell me to go bad to go and put
the do my daughter's to bed or something. Should I
have gone to bed?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Probably not?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Why well, because you're not really your body's not quite
ready to go to sleep. Sleep read two processes. Okay,
process is your home you static process, which is your sleepiness.
The longer we stay awake, the sleep a we come.
So if you're up early in the morning as you
are off working hard, and then your sleepiness is going
to be quite high at seven or eight nine o'clock
(12:08):
at night, but your circadian process is quite different. Circadian
process your internal temperature corba temperatures rising in the evening.
So a lot of people, particularly we see this for
teenagers and early twenties, do their best work at nine, ten,
eleven o'clock at night. The problem we're going to sleep
at eight o'clock at night is that you get rid
of that sleepiness because you slept for half an hour
(12:29):
and suddenly you're up.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That's about a nap and you're a wake for wa
age is exactly right. So should I resist the nap?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Probably? Yeah, get up and walk around, take your daughter
off the bed, sort of sort that out. And try
not to fall asleep.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Well, actually, actually that's one of those blissful times. You know.
I often help them debrief on the day, I ll
have a chat. But then sometimes it's like, Daddy, you're
falling asleep.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Well for you, of course, because you're a morning person,
generally you have to be often. Then you will be
fading pretty early on in the evening.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Questions about your challenges of getting a good night sleep,
I'd love to hear from you. Hi, can you ask Alex.
I have this problem where I go to sleep and
I know I'm tired, However I feel myself. Ah, I
feel myself going to sleep before waking up like twenty
to thirty minutes later. Then I can't get back to
sleep for one or two hours, even though I know
I'm tired. I find I have to get up and
move around and do something to get back to sleep.
(13:23):
Any help would be great. Cheers.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Well, I'd have to see you doing the right thing,
because if you can't sleep, there's no point in line
there stressing about it. So if you had a bit
of sleep, say that's a bonus. I've had a bit
of sleep. I've had an hour sleep, not the end
of the world. Let's get up and go for a
little bit of a walk around the house, write down
anything that's on your mind particularly, and then maybe an
hour later, go back.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
To a bit.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Normally, if it's in the middle of the night, we'd
say you get up for only fifteen minutes or so.
But if it's early in the night and it's only
sort of nine o'clock ten o'clock at night, then maybe
wait a little bit longer.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I think that that's one of the I've come across
people who have said this is their problem as well.
But when I'm anxious about sleeping and I managed to
wind my mind down, then there's a part of my
mind that something goes, oh you're almost there, or you're
almost there, and then a bloody will.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Wake up again.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
The classic one is you know you're reading a book
and you're in bed and you're reading BOK and you think, oh,
I'm really tired. I think I read to see you
put the book down. A ping on goes your brain.
It's that the wrong what we call behavioral condition response.
The response should be head down.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Go to sleep. How do you how do you change
your behavioral condition? What does that say? It again?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Behavioral condition response. Okay, yeah, so it's a response your
behavior to something external stimulus. It's normally head down, drift
off to sleep in ten or fifteen minutes of the most,
but with a lot of people with insomnia, the very
fact of putting the book down and trying to go
to sleep immediately raises the brain.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Should they just put the book down? Differently, just link
down and pretend they're going to care on reading.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
And it's all really about confidence. Basically most will pick
it up and read again and get a bit more
tired a bit later on. Always try to go a
bit later. So if you're struggling to go to sleep,
go to bed later, don't go to a bit earlier.
Constant kneed you responsive. Most people I see going a
bit earlier if they can't go to sleep. They think,
you know, I go to bed at Classically I go
to bed at ten and i'd actually till midnight. So
(15:19):
most people will say, well, if I go to bed
at nine, I'll sleep at eleven. That'll be better.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Well, it won't walk, I think I do that. I
think if I go to mind you oh.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, if you go to bed at nine and go
to sleep, that's fine. But a lot of people who
can't actually sleep till midnight, it'll just mean they're awake
for longer. So go to bed at midnight, get used
to going to bed at midnight and go to sleep,
and then you can go to bed at quarter to midnight.
Maybe help past eleven go to bed a little bit elter.
But this time you've got confident. Sleep's all about confidence.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
What about eating? Are there particular foods you should avoid
or is it the fact of eating you should avoid.
I've heard that cheese and peanuts give you nightmares. I
don't know if that's true.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, the study I read was actually run by a
cheese company, which we have to take with a pinch
of salt with a chin cheese. So no, and they
said it didn't make any difference, So of.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Course they did. Cheese company. Apparently it's fine just before
Actually it's one of my guilty snacks. I do quite
like a little bit of cheese late at night.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Likewise, or sleep doesn't fit most sleep.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Oh, you probably have the posh cheese. I have that
sort of orange thing that.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
The ordinary cheesewe salty cheese is. What does it for me? No? Really,
it's what you eat basically a big food, your gut
doesn't work well at night. So having a big meal
before you go to bed, or having lots of food
in your gut at night doesn't help sleep. We designed
to have a gut relatively empty when you go to sleep,
So snake is okay, but not a big meal. Will
(16:52):
you like to say, have your main meal at least
three hours before you got to go to bed.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Are the effects of things like coffee overstated? You've gone
out for dinner, you have a post, you know, a
coffee sometimes maybe.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Or for some people get It's very variable with people,
but some people of coffee and even twelve hours later
they can't sleep. So some people metabolize it very slowly.
But the normal half life or active life of caffeine
is about five to eight hours, quite a long time.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
That is quite a long time. Tis so as a
rule of thumb, lunchtime, if you had a coffee, fine,
but after.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
That that's about right. If you're having trouble with sleep,
trying to avoid cafe or do cake decaf if you like,
and remember the caffeine also in things like chocolate, so
you know, hot chocolate before you go to bed. Nice
soothing drink, but it's actually got caffeine in it. So
if you're having trouble, what about milk?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Actually I have every now and you're gonna want who
really wanted to signal to myself? I want to get
to sleep. I've microwaved a cup of milk with maybe
a teaspoon of honey in it.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, okay, I mean it's a nice that's just a signal,
a signal. The chemistry behind that is basically it's got
a trip to fan in it, and the tripp to
fan converts to five hydroctory trip to fan, which you
can buy over the counters five htp. People within somebody
will know that five htp About the counter that converts
to serotonin? Yeah, hybatrix trip, I mean, and that converts
(18:08):
to melotone. So the theory is you have milk and
it'll eventually end up being melotone and to help you sleep.
The reality is even taking melotone probably doesn't make it lot.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Well, you can't get melatonin except the homeopathic one, which
is basically expensive water. Yeah, exactly, sorry homeopaths, but that's
you know, diluted are hundred? What is it? It's you
diluted by one hundred thirty times. I think that's what
they call thirty C and supposed to be more potent.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
But yeah, drop it in the swimming pool and you'll
knock your socks off.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, that's a lot of water. What about real melatonin?
Can you? Is that prescribable? Is it? Because some people
get it from overseas bringing back because.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
What's the melatonin is is a what we're call a chronobiotic,
so it's actually not a sleeping tablet. It's a soper
effic so it calms people down a little bit possibly,
and that's why it's used for ADHD and AASD children
for example, which is quite effective. But the study done
by the Circadian two milligrams slow release products that it
(19:06):
didn't really make any difference under fifty five year olds.
So it's prescribed for older people largely because they're pineal gland,
which is where we produce melatonin, doesn't work very well
as we get older. So boosting your melotony lovers does
help a bit. But you know, if you want to,
it's okay for jet lag because it's it alters you're
(19:26):
cicaed into them to some degree, so you use jet
lag sometimes.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Helps Okay, here's we've got a couple of calls coming.
We'll get to those in the second. Hi, as a
forty nine year old piram meenopausal woman really struggling with
getting to sleep and waking up numerous times a night,
often for all periods. Any suggestions, many things?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, I mean this is where HRT can be very
useful if you're allowed to PRESFERM replacement for and replacement therapy. Yeah,
as long as there's no cancer in family, breast cancer,
over a cancer, what have you. But it is, it
is helpful, and so get rid of those flushes at night,
which are very common.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Is that something people can people is common and pyramid
very common? Yes, it does because a body temperature and
things like that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Rhythms all over the place. And remember, as I mentioned earlier,
your body temperature is actually crucial for your sleep and
week and so if that's disrupted because of menopause, were
flushing and whatever, you then that impact on your sleep
as well.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
What about sleep, I'll actually tell you what. I've got
so many questions. I've got more questions than usually. I
don't know why. I must be really obsessed with my
sleep right now. But we're going to take. Oh and
I just before we go to our callers another text
to your high. But recently been diagnosed with moderate heart
disease and I need a stint. I have had trouble
with getting to sleep up a few nightmares as well.
They only started after taking the statins. I wake up
exhausted like I have no sleep, usually go to bed
(20:45):
around eleven o'clock. I appreciate your advice on the sets
from Barbara.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, I think having cardiovascular problems stinting does suggest that
the blood vessels all around your body are probably not
quite as wide open as they might be. But quite
this is going to impact on your sleep. I'm not
sure apart from anxiety. Am I going to have a
heartder take in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Because I don't think she's head the stint. But what
about stats? She asked about steps stettins. It can affect
people in different ways. I mean the most common are
they're the things to reduce your cholesterol, okay, right, And
the most common side of it from those is the
mi algia is the muscle pain. But if you think
it might be causing some dreaming and some nightmares, then
(21:28):
there are alternatives. There are different stettens and different ways
of reducing your cholesterol. Stettins are the most effective and
the most commonly used, but there are other options as well.
So you what were we going to now, let's go
to Stuart.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Hello, Yeah, good afternoon, guys. My wife has af and
goes out to rhythm now and again and is very
conscious of it inso much as you know, it creates
little panic attacks that she can't get to sleep with.
(22:01):
And we'll stay awake till two in the morning reading
and then we'll take a quarter of a sleeping pill
and fall asleep. And she's really concerned that sleeping pills
can be addictive. Are they addictive? Or is that an
old wife's tale?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well, the addiction part of it really is the fact
that she has to take something to go to sleep.
So it's very much a psychological addiction because there really
isn't very much chemical in a quarter of a zopocal
and if that's what she's taking, but very you know,
you take a few crumbs and you put it in
your mouth, you taste that bit of taste all well
now and go to sleep and you don't think that
it's your placebo effect, you know, this going something to
(22:46):
help you sleep. And anything you take to sleep, whether
it's something that's homeopathic or really is just a non
medicare medication, if it helps you sleep for whatever reason
it's you're told it's going to help you sleep, then
you need to use that is I can't do it.
I need this thing to help me sleep. And so
that's what we and a lot of time doing is
trying to get people confident that they can do it themselves.
(23:09):
And so the whole lot of strategies we use to
try and get people off medication. Generally, you know, occasional
use of zopic and fine, absolutely brilliant. It's a very
good sleeping tablet. But to use it regularly is not
going to be helpful.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Okay, okay, thanks, thanks Jerked, good stuff. Quick text onst
and says Cheapers. What did Alex say was the statistics
of getting Parkinson's if your parents has it? Did you
mention a stand No.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I didn't say anything about Parkinson's. No, it's nothing to
do with Parkinson's. It's restless leg syndrome. I was saying
was ten percent of the population.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
I think you mentioned that some people. I can't remember that.
I did hear.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
No, I say the bottom the endpoint of low dopamin
levels is much the same, but the reason for getting
to the low dopamin levels is completely different.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Another question here, what about having a bit of nook
at you before you go to sleep? Does that actually help?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Or or yes, it certainly does. We produce a particularly
the orgasm.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
We produce it.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
This lovely hormone.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
The hormone you're trying and think what it is now,
it's the tip of the tongue. Tell you what in
the tongue. We'll find out.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
We produce this lovely hormone and that helps to sleep.
So yes, it's a good idea.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
We'll find out oxytocin the a other ways of generating
oxytocin rather than.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
You've probably taken into a pill. But it's not nearly
as much.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
No, it's not. Actually, I guess it's a fair point.
We'll be back with your calls in just a moment.
It's twenty one minutes to five.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
News Talk said be extra.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Now, why he didn't use Delta, United, Immirates Singapore air Lines.
I've got no idea, but he chose the chatterms to
well exactly the three or four direct flights every day
for goodness sake anyway, So he takes the Chathams and
it's the weirdest thing I've bought. I've mentioned this before,
but I've never understood why people serve food on planes
in this country. This is not America. It doesn't take
six hours to get anywhere. You don't need to be fed.
(24:58):
What you need is just to sit there quietly and
you will land in about forty minutes, doesn't matter where.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
You're going a bit longer than that, I think on
the kind of they used.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Certainly took it took it took seventy an hour ago
from Auckland to to Wangenua. So they hand out on
the chatams at tim Tam. And not only do they
hand it out of tim Tam, they handed out of
a packet of tim Tam. So Brian or Tracy come
along and they opened the packet. Did they use tongs
They offer you the packet and they say, would you
(25:28):
like a tim Tam?
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Not tongus that they did grab it with a napkin apparently.
Yet that was a news Talk Zebby Extra Your Weekend,
Your Way the Weekend Collective with Tim Beveridge News Talk
Zebby News Talk b Tim Beverage with Alex Bartor from
the Sleepwell Clinic. You can check them out on sleep
well Clinic dot co dot in it. I'm surprised we
(25:50):
haven't gotten too we haven't got onto the sleep out.
Mere think that's one of the that's one of the
old comes up. It does, but stand by who knows
Glenn good E.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Here the afternoon? Just a question My wife and I try.
I got a bit about eleven o'clock at nights. I
could lie and a bit a week for maybe a
couple of hours. She could be asleep within five minutes.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Frustrating.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
Ye yet yeah, yet, If I turned the radio and
listen to a little bit of talk Faircort Talk podcast,
I could drop for.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
More from the weekend collective.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Listen live to news Talk ZB weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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