June 28, 2025 • 35 mins
How can you teach accountability to your children?
What ways can a lesson go too far?
Parent teacher interviews - what questions should we be asking our teachers?
Tim Beveridge is joined by Education Expert Sandy Pasley...
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend collective podcast from News Talks Phenomena, Monomena, Phenomena.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
M.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yes, welcome back. I don't know why I just chose
to play mnomenapp, but it was somehow. It came across
my radar the other day and I thought, gosh, how
many people don't know the tu mnama up I mean
global It must be one of the most famous songs
there is. But it was all based on a French
or Italian composer may nor me no, which means of
course not or but no. But anyway, there's a bit
(00:59):
of trivia for you. But I thought it would be
a nice because we saw these we we all learned
that song probably when we're watching Sesame Street, which is
out some of their first doses of television education entertainment.
And so that sort of ties into in a very
long winded way to the parents squad, because we're gonna
have a chat about a couple of things. Recently. There
(01:21):
will have been you may or may not have gone
along to your parent teacher interviews and you know what,
should We're gonna have a bit of a chat about
what did you expect to get out of those parent
teacher interviews and do those expectations need to change as
you go so obviously, parent teacher interview five year old
you want chapter and verse, You want to I guess
(01:42):
you want to know that the teacher has got to
understand how your kid works and the how your kid
That sounds so terribly sling, how your child works and
what their challenges are, and you're going to you're looking
forward to an in depth conversation. But as time goes on,
maybe you know it's like speed dating. When you get
to secondary school, it's like hello, how is she good? Okay? Bye?
(02:05):
What do you expect to get from your parent teacher interviews?
We want to hear from you on eight hundred eighty
ten eighty, And we're also going to have a chat
based on just my own experience as a parent on
accountability and how far you need to go with teaching
your children and Mike in our case, sort of the
value of money, but accountability for causing damage? How do
(02:26):
you teach them? How far do you how far do
you make them front up for their own mistakes and
your own perhaps so anyway, lots to talk about. We
want your calls on eight hundred eighty ten eighty and
you can text on nine two nine two, but jump
on the blow. We'd love to hear from you and
joining us. She is former principal of Barradine. She's an
education expert. Let's just call her that. And her name
(02:48):
is Sandy Pasley And Sandy's with me now, Sandy, Hello,
how are you hi?
Speaker 4 (02:52):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Tom Good? Did you used to love the parent teacher
interviews because you would have done them as a parent, actually,
and as a teacher, which sounds like you'd be hard work, which.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Is very difficult. One of those people that actually took notes.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
As the parent.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
As a parent, of.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Course, Yeah, I took a notebook with me. I don't
think I wrote anything in it, because I mean one
of my daughters. I guess I should give them their
anonymity and not say which one, but I was sort
of The teachers were quite happy with her. And once
they said they were happy with her, I suddenly thought,
I need to ask something else. What do I need
(03:32):
to know? What do you think? Parents? Let's look at
the your most recent part of your careers at Bardine
High School parent teacher interviews. What are they about?
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Well? I think it's quite hard for a start, for
a teacher, can I give the teacher's side for a
little while, because you've got about one hundred and fifty
students and so you've got to be really on the ball,
have your information in front of you as a teacher.
But then I think it's really important for the to ask,
(04:06):
you know, is my child engaged? Is my daughter or
my son actually interested in learning? What do you see
them in interacting? And how do you see them interacting
in the classroom? Yeah, how are they doing?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
And are there any issues?
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And you've got to want to hear the answer too,
don't you.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Yes, definitely, And you probably want to know if they're doing,
they are achieving what you would expect them to be achieving,
and maybe are they working? Are they showing that they've
got a good work ethic?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Now, what did you ask your when you were a parent? Okay,
because I did try and differentiate it. Although I didn't
do it, I probably didn't give the reason. The reason
that you can expect a better meeting and a longer
meeting when your kids when your child is five or
sex is because they have one teacher and they've maybe
got twenty four to twenty five twenty six students, and
(04:56):
I think it's I mean, I think it's very important
to make the most of those opportunities to engage with
your children child's learning. Whereas, as you point out, for
a second school teacher, they've got maybe one hundred and
fifty students and you're lucky if you get an appointment,
to be honest, aren't you, Because there's so much time
in a day.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Yes, yeah, it's really hard in secondary schools, but it's
really crucial for those core subjects to know how your
child is doing.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Okay, so what did you ask? Let's put on Sandy
Paisley parent.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Probably the first thing i'd say is, you know, are
there any problems behavior in the class? Not that I
needed to, Yeah, it sounds like they had terrible children,
but I didn't.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Well that was actually that was what I asked in
the end, because your children are completely of what I've
learned is my children are completely different in school to
how they are at home. And every parent I've talked
to who got a positive glowing review said they sat
there going but does she talk back to you? Does she?
(05:54):
Because kids at school they're putting their best foot forward
and when they get home whatever they need to let out,
they let out. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Yeah, you see them differently as a parent, don't you.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, And I think that that was the thing that
stuck out to me. Well, actually, I'm not going to
brag about my kids, but they got some they were
nice meetings, and the school was happy with them. But
I was I was thinking, okay, but what about Actually,
in fact, a couple of times I said, does she
talk back to you? Does she do this? No? No,
it's fine. So what else should I have asked?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
It would be quite interesting to ask your student, your child,
before that you go to those interviews, you know, what
about that class? How do you think you're doing? Is
there any issues, so that you've got a bit of
background from their point of view as well?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Okay, that's the one. Yeah. I think the problem is
they just generally grit their teeth and they're just sort
of like, oh, okay, dad. Then you've got one in
five minutes and you go along and you're not going
to say, oh, you're not going to say that. That'll
be embarrassing if you make a joke about that. That's
their main thing as well. I'm going to embarrass them.
So what your questions were I've got I got off
the topic there because I was too busy gassing. But
(07:02):
so you would as a parent, you'd go on to
say how are they? How are they doing first? Are
they behaving? Are they cooperative member of the class? What
are the other things?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Academic progress? Of course, also in terms of social interactions,
because I think a teacher can see how a student's
interacting with their peers and that's important for interpersonal skills
and learning about how to work with others.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah, what were the things that you would look for
because in a way you are interviewing the teacher and
trying to get your own reckons that you are happy
to entrust your child to their care for their education.
So there will be parents whore like I mean, if
you if you're not sure and I don't want to
you don't want to fit, I mean, paranoid parents would
be quite a thing to deal with. But there would
(07:51):
be times when you'd be is there in a way
that is the parent testing the teacher as well that
I maybe I might have asked at some stage, asked
a question where you're hoping that she gives a certain answer,
because then that tells you, okay, they know my kid,
I can relax now, or do you think that's a
(08:12):
tricky situation.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
It is a tricky situation in a high school. It's
not a tricky situation.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
In primary school. In primary school, you would.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Expect them to know them really well. On high schools
it's a bit different. I think that the teacher, it's
really important not to come with preconceived ideas about the teacher.
And you certainly might have preconceived ideas if your child's
been talking about a particular teacher, and quite it would
(08:40):
be quite interesting just to sit there and try and
forget what your child said and you form your own view.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Actually I did have Well, there was one child who
had expressed reservations about a teacher, and then I met
the teacher. I said she's great, and she said, oh, yeah,
that was just at the start of the year. She's great.
Never bother to update me. We'd love to hear from you, though,
if you've got any questions for Sandy, because on what
to expect on this, because it isn't a way when
your kids get a bit older. It is a little
(09:09):
bit like a speed dating exercise. So what are the
questions that you have asked your teachers in the past,
or what have you wanted to learn? Because the other
cynical throwaway remark I might say is that probably if
the parents have gone to the effort of making sure
that they get an appointment, it's probably I'm imagining it.
(09:32):
Most of the time, they're always pretty positive because parents
are engaged in their children's learning, So it's almost like
job done before you've even met the teacher, because what
you guys want as a school is parents who are
engaged with their kids learning, with your child's learning. God,
I got assistop saying kids, sorry, but is that sort
of true? Job done?
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Absolutely, But it is a partnership tim right from the start,
and it's got to work, and there's got to be
trust on both sides.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Teachers would often say I get to see all the
probably all the parents I don't need to see, and
the ones I really want to see I don't see now.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
And that's and I don't know what the solution to
that is. I guess that's because things have to get
to a more dramatic point with the problem, with a
real problem with the learning, where you literally have to
say we need to see you, and that's there's the
parent teacher engagement, which is generally you know, nice, brief,
hopefully informative, and then there's this all this other territory
(10:31):
till there's a major problem. How do I mean, how
do you encourage parents to engage in it then? Because
also it's it's limited places, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yes, it is, It's hard. Now you just hope that
parents will come along and take the opportunity. Some schools
do that, I know, actually give some sort of signals
to parents if there's a concern pretty early on before
parent interviews, so that parents have got a bit of
a heads up that something might not be right, and
(11:01):
make sure that they come along to interviews, and they
follow up.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
But does sometimes a school even go so far as
to making sure there's a place available for that parent
and let's just wait. If we don't hear from them,
then we'll offer it up in a few days time
or something.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Absolutely so the dean will follow up and say, look,
I think it'd be great if you came along to
the interviews because we need to talk to you about.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
So how how much how can a parent be engaged
with their child's learning when they are going through those
teenage years because teenagers aren't necessarily the easiest sharers. They
whether they get homework or not. But so you have that,
you know, it seems to me that questions around being
engaged with the child's learning when they're five, six, and
(11:41):
seven and eight, that's a no brainer. I mean, it's
a young age. Hopefully the parents are in there, but
as they get older, you have to step back of it,
don't you. Is that was that for you a bit
of a journey as a teacher as well to hey mum,
back off. You know, I know you're a teacher.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
But it definitely was to because what did I know?
You know, your children don't realize what you know to
be able to assist them anyway. But it also is
the time in their lives when they're trying to be
independent and you've got to respect that. But it is
frustrating as a parent when you can see that they're
perhaps not doing the homework that they should be doing,
or you know they've already done it and they give
(12:18):
you that answer, no, got it sorted, and you worry
or that they haven't.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Because as part of that journey, I've I mean my
wife and I and again she doesn't like me to
share to I try not to. It's very difficult to
a parenting are because I come to it as a
parent and let them have a little bit of privacy
and their views and things. But it wouldn't be too
much to work out that my wife's a teacher, so
she is more switched on to these things, whereas so,
(12:45):
for instance, if there's some homework that might not be
getting done, my wife would be more regular at reminding them,
whereas I might be, well, hang on, they're getting to
this age. If they can't follow up on this, then
I'd like them to learn that mistake themselves. I'm not
sure I'm right, but you know, in terms of helping
(13:05):
them along, because there is a bit where you have
to pull back and it's like, well, I know you've
got that assignment. I'm not going to do it for you,
but how far should I participate in nudging them all
the time? Nagging them?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Even you were so right, because it's so hard to
teach and consequences, isn't it. And where do you step
back as a parent because you worry if you're actually
not in there supporting them and saying nagging them a
wee bit, yeah, it'll be a disaster. But it doesn't
work that way either, because then they rely on you.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
It is a funny way. I mean, what age do
you think you've got to start letting? I mean, it's
every child is different, I guess. But did you was
that an exercise you had to go through as a
parent where you're like, hey, on a minute, okay, I
know I want to I want to be involved and
tell them what they should be doing. But is there
did you have to force yourself to go okay, hands
off a little bit more?
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Oh? Definitely, that's tricky. Tim probably getting year nine and
ten on starting to think, well, they've got to actually
have a bit of motivation themselves. And it's so hard
because I know as a parent, when they kept forgetting
their lunch for instance, you know you see parents rocking
(14:17):
up to school with the lunch guilty yep. Whereas a
big good thing to do is not do that and
let them have the consequences of not having their lunch.
And they would only do it once, wouldn't they?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah? And what age would you do that? I guess?
I mean, I'm not going to drill into this too much.
We'd actually like to hear from you a little bit.
And look, I've already gone onto one of our other topics,
which is about accountability and consequences. But if you've got
any on the parent teacher interview, what do you look
for when you have that appointment with the teacher or
(14:49):
do you go along with what we've sort of concluded,
is that really the parents if you're one of those
parents who make sure that you make the appointment and
you get along to meet the teachers, just the fact
that you're their job done, that's all you need. Ask
a couple of questions. And that's great because it's Sandy
was indicating, maybe it's the parents you haven't made that effort,
but the ones at the school sometimes wants to see
(15:10):
how do you approach the speed dating give us if
you'd like to share with us your philosophies and how
you approach it. We'd love to hear from you. On
eight hundred eighty ten eighty. My guest is Sandy Pasley,
she's former principal at Barridine and we're going to get
on to the big one for me as well after
this is also teaching consequences and accountability. When do you
really start to go a bit harder on that oh
eight hundred eighty ten eighty text twenty two past five
(15:33):
News took said.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
B.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Okay, well, welcome back. This is the Parents Squad. I'm
Tim Beverbridge. My guest is Sandy Pasley. She's former principal
barret In College. That's when my girls go. And I
have talked about that before, you know, and we've been
having a bit of a chat just because it has
been the speed dating season of parent teacher interviews. But
also the other thing I wanted to talk about, Sandy,
was the bigger question about accountability. And I have one
(16:24):
of my daughters and look devices, so laptops, and there's
a lot, you know, there's a lot. It's expensive to provide,
you know, the apparel for your cons education these days.
And I've had one daughter who has turned out and
has broken her screen a couple of times, and it's
become quite expensive. And she sort of did roll out
a few excuses. And I know I mentioned to other
(16:47):
parents and every parent's gone, oh, yes, such and such
broke this and broke that. And I I'm going through
this thing because you want them to have the best
of everything. But I feel a bit grinchy because I've said, right,
total cost is over a thousand bucks over a couple
of years. I've said, we're taking one hundred and fifty
bucks out of your savings and you're going to watch
(17:08):
me do the transfer. And part of me thinks I'm
doing absolutely the right thing, and part of me feels
like an absolute not very nice person. And I don't
know where the antswer lies because I want her to
understand I don't want to punish her, but I want
to punish her, and I don't know how to deal
(17:29):
with it because it's, you know, I don't know, like
you don't know, what do you reckon?
Speaker 4 (17:35):
It's all about knowing the learning the value of money,
isn't it?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
And I guess so it is.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
A bit because I think that you know, if you
give them jobs early on and they do homework and
they can not homework, sorry, they do housework tools around
the house, then they get the sense that they've actually
earned something and they know how much they've earned, and
then then they can translate it to your frustrate of
(18:06):
actually another screen broken and it's so much money.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yeah, because I feel taking money out of savings doesn't
feel particularly good. I just want her to see the transaction. God,
I feel awful. So are you suggesting that maybe I
can get her to work it off or a bit
of both.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Yes, definitely, And I think you can ask ask her
to really reflect on you know, how would she feel
if she was in your shoes?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, the thing that triggered it was and again, look,
you know, I'm sorry I have shared something of my daughters,
but again, you know, everyone's children. They do damage to
things and they sometimes don't work it out. And she
was in the back of the car with her friend
and she meant and I mentioned it, and she sort
of sniggered, and I thought, that's that's if you're finding
this money.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yeah, but the snigger might be nervousness.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Oh possibly, or also it was you know, embarrassment. Yeah,
probably the whole It was my fault. I should have
kept it to myself. But look, I'd love to hearing
you of it as well as how do you teach
your kids about accountability, because there's some parents who go
quite hardcore on this stuff and say you're going to
earn every penny of that. And to me, as a parent,
I think I've accept that kids make mistakes, accidents happen,
(19:18):
and things like that, and you're there, you're there as
a parent to pick up the pieces, and ultimately, when
they're old enough, they don't even you don't even need
to ask them to pick up the pieces because they know.
But there's that middle ground, isn't there.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Yeah, I think you're on the right track, tim asking
for a contribution.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Yeah, do you think going unto the savings and going
here's your account, here's it going to trans we're going
on holiday. I'm always tempted to maybe I could say,
guess what such and such dinners on you tonight?
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Yeah, but maybe ask you what does she thinks fore you?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Ah, she has suggested a sort of figure, which is
I said it might be a bit more than that.
I mean, yeah, anyway. But the other thing was because
one of the that kids will throw up is like
I don't know how that happened, or I didn't do
anything or such and such and somebody must have, you know,
(20:11):
dumped their bag and this is how it happened. And
my line to her was, well, it doesn't really matter.
You were in charge of that, and when you're in
charge of that, when you're grown up, it doesn't matter
how it happened. You were responsible. I feel such a
grinch though, as I say that to you.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Oh no, no, no, I think taking responsibility is really
important to be a good citizen and to be a
nice person and to have empathy.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, I mean yeah, Look, you send your texts through
as well. By the way, here's one that says our kids.
This is close to where I'm at anyway, Our kids
pay ten percent of costs due to damage, which is
sort of and it says they have jobs to do
purely because they're living in the house. And oh here's
the thing though, the idea of them working it off,
(20:58):
that would have to be extra jobs as opposed to,
you're a member of this household, you do the dishes
because you're a member of the household, as opposed to
Dad's car needs cleaning within an inch of its life.
We can give you some money for that. What do
you reckon?
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Yeah, I think that's very sensible, the extra jobs. Your
car I'm sure needs cleaning. Oh sorry.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Funny thing is that was true as of yesterday, but
I actually cleaned it myself and thought, gosh, I should
be getting my daughter to do this. But I mean,
how far would you take it when it comes to
expensive items of equipment and things. I guess it's just
something as a parent. You know, education costs, and that's
the way it is.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
I think it has to be reasonable. I think if
it's too much, it just becomes too hard for them. Yeah,
and you know they wouldn't necessarily learn the lesson. It
would just then it wouldn't be a really good lesson
to learn. I think there's got to be a fine
line between saying you have to pay one thousand dollars
or saying you have to.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Pay I mean, it gets the question about how school's
discipline as well, because those years have changed. You would
have seen a lot of changes over the years in
terms of how you introduce accountability of course with boys' schools,
especially out and how it worked with girls skills its
corporal punishment and all that sort of thing. And I
must say there's probably a couple of lessons I lent
through corporal punishment that it didn't didn't do me any
(22:23):
I'm not sure. I think it worked a couple of times, probably,
but most of the time it just felt like an injustice.
But is it harder to introduce accountability and discipline to
kids these days or.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Easier I don't think it's too hard. I think what
is really hard is when you've got when you're trying
to teach students accountability and the parents are on the
side of the student and do everything to defend them
and don't realize that they're actually doing their childhood disservice.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Is that quite common?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
No? No, I didn't strike it very often at all.
But the times I did strike it, I felt sorry
for the student actually, because they weren't going to learn
from the experience.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
So what are the ways that generally? What are other
ways that kids are disciplined these days at school?
Speaker 4 (23:13):
I mean, well, there's various ways. If it's something that's
you know, sometimes it's a matter of having a meeting
with a dean and having a talk through what happened
and reflecting on what happened and the effect it had
on others. Sometimes it might be merely staying after school
and having to do something after school to help the school.
(23:37):
Sometimes it could be if it's more serious, a stand
down or a suspension is the key.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
To it, really, I think it is the key to
it with kids. And I know we're sort of talking
around lots of topics here, but is it all about
I mean, in a way setting the expectations in the
first place, because I must say that is something that
probably shone through to us when we started our kids
at Barradine, is that you sort of sign up to
a set of expectations. I can't remember how it happened.
(24:03):
I just remember thinking, don't mess with these guys. Sorry,
came out of it harsh, didn't.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
It a little bit? I think it's important to have expectations,
and I think that it's important to have clear boundaries actually,
because I think that young people, if they understand the boundaries,
they work with them. It sometimes not always, but mostly.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
It's what about when it just I mean, okay, when
it comes to accountability and getting the best out of
your kids, it's obviously things if you've got to go
have a meeting with the dean, then something's got reasonably serious.
But just how do kids get what's the best way
to encourage them to start self regulating? Because I think
this is what it's all about. That you have a
point when they're little, that you cover the basis for
them all the time. Then you introduce responsibility. But at school,
(24:50):
how do you what are the most effective tools for
motivating kids just to keep on top of what they
should be doing.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
I think it's important to encourage the student to look
at what they did and who it affected, and how
would they like if it happened to them. I think
that's always a really good way of seeing if they
can reflect and they can have that empathy for others,
because that's something also important for schools to teach.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
What about when it comes to doing well for themselves
and motivating and all that sort of thing. It is
that a school culture thing or is it a teacher
by teacher thing? What is that?
Speaker 4 (25:24):
I think that's where teachers step up and encourage. I
think the praise is really important when you see them
doing something really good, that you actually acknowledge it and
that praise and everybody wants to be acknowledged when.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
They Yeah, when they're doing well.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Definitely.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Yeah. I've got a few texts to get to address
here which will throw these at your hairs, Sandy. One
person just says, stick with it, Tim, You've got to
keep I think the thing that if your child has
got a sense of entitlement and then that's something you
do need to address, isn't it When they don't take
anything recently heard on the radio. School reports aren't going
to be sent anymore. I thought, surely not well passed it.
(26:07):
What's this? I might need to dig into that a
bit more and we'll come back. We'll come back to
that in just a second. Question for Sandy, what do
you do when you run out of time in a
parent teacher interview as the parent, as the teacher has
spent all the time talking instead of asking the parents
if they have questions or concerns.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
I think you say to the teacher, look, I've got
a few questions that we haven't had time to actually ask.
I will email them to you, and I'd be really
appreciative if you could get back to me with it.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Okay, hey, look we're going to take a break. We'd
love to hear from you. One hundred and eighty and
eighty teaching kids about accountability and consequences, and I shared
my story about the financial cost of having to repair
broken laptop screens. Am I being too harsh in making
my child pay some of that out of her savings? Actually,
I'll be honest. There's a bunch of birthday presents that
(26:58):
come in and their preisy cards, and I'm like, those
are all mine. That's how they're being paid for until
we can come up with another scheme. So you tell
me if I'm being a bit harsh on that one
hundred eighty ten eighty, Sandy, you don't need a dis handling.
But right now we'll be back in just to take
it's twenty three minutes to sex News Talks here by.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
Here I go again, Mama does show against.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
That's welcome to the Weekend Collective. This is the parents Squad,
my guest to Sandy Pasley's which formed the principal of
Barradine School, which is where my kids go. And that's
how actually you know, Sandy and when you're retired from
that particular role, because you're not retired now, are you, Sandy.
You're you're doing a whole bunch of other things in education,
keeping yourself busy, aren't you.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I am. I'm being an education consultant helping supporting schools
in Auckland.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
How hard was it to step away from being the
principal role?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Are you?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
And have you come to terms with it yet or
is it? Is it still because it's a huge part
of your life and a culture, a culture and a
community like Barradine, what's it like?
Speaker 4 (28:03):
I really miss it, but it was time. But I
love the students. I love seeing them come to school
smiles on their faces and everything about it and the
ability to have some influence in their lives along with
all the fair better stuff I work with it. Mariting.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine, because I just imagine being
part of any community like that would and you step
away from it, given the role you've had, would be
you probably have to tell yourself, can I turn up
to this event? But maybe not that one irrationing the events.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Exactly because I'm also conscious it's Alex's role now and
it's really important that she established herself. And yes, so yeah,
you've just got to move on. I think sometimes in
life on.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
The accountability thing, somebody said there was a caller who
pook called out didn't want to go on a sez.
He points out, he basically tells their kids how many
hours it would take for them to work off on
the minimum wage to pay off the damage to something
they've caused. Again, it still feels grinchy that, but I
guess there's just got to be a gentle way of saying, hey.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Look, maybe if that you did that, but then reach
to compromise. At least it would give them the idea
of how much it would yeah, the value of it all.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, I don't think they're making it work them off.
I think they just say, look, if someone's on the
minimum wage, they're going to have to turn up to
school for it. They're going to turn up to wherever
it is for a week or three days to pay
for that. I mean that wouldn't hurt. Yeah, I guess
it's you know, you've still got to do it with
love and affection and all that sort of thing. Another
person says it is important to not horrible definitely have
(29:44):
children work it off and agree that the jobs upfront
as well as the agreed value of the job. And
they also make the point that sometimes the machines are
so sensitive that you can I think there's a comment
about it can break. It's pretty easy to break these things.
That's a frustrating thing as well. I think every parent
I've mentioned it too says, oh, yeah, such and such
broke this and broke that. That's the problem with lugging
(30:06):
laptops around. Education is expensive these.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Days, isn't it it is?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Somebody says send your kids to live with someone in
the country for a year and new appreciation of life.
Another one about the parent teacher contact. If the school
rings about our daughter, we pretty much expect that she
has done it, and she pretty much always has. We
(30:31):
got a call saying our son had done something wrong
and had a detention for him for it. It didn't
sound like him and he said it wasn't. So we
asked the dean to reinvestigate. Some got an apology and
a block chocolate our kids, and our kids know that
we always bank them. That's an interesting story, isn't it.
(30:52):
So they knew their daughter well enough to think well,
but in the case of the other child, they decided
to challenge it. How do you deal with that at
the school? Actually, when people say are you sure.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
I think the school did the right thing by investigating
and finding out that they were wrong.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
The block of chocolate to say, so, okay, the I
think you can still support your child and agree and
support the school as well, because I think by supporting
the school and maybe the punishment that's been given, you're
also supporting your child. Yeah. Yeah, longest, that's.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
The end of it. When they've done the punishment, that's
also important.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Somebody's also talked about the insurance success. Actually, I mean,
I guess the reason I've been uncomfortable with this is
that no one really likes having to You don't like
having to worry about that sort of stuff, and in
focusing out were talking about it on radio. It just
feels like too much. But I guess it's just the
gentle question is about there are consequences and gently introducing
(31:57):
that without and everything I've said as I've been talking
to you, I feel that I'm being a complete heel
about it.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
You're not at all anyway being a good parent.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Well, thank you, Sandy. You know it's nice to have
a little bit of absolution on these things. And another
person says, if you don't teach them, who will and
who and will another teach them with the right lessons
in mind. So yeah, basically saying, yeah, it is for
parents to take that step. Tom, I was mowing lawns
(32:27):
at seven for a paying customer twenty five percent, but
on old money, that money was mine. I always had
an income from then on. In raality, I earned more
per hour. Sorry, this is the grammar of this has
confused me a bit, But actually, when do you actually
encourage your kids to start. You know, did you do
your kids ever have jobs? When they were thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Eighteen were jobs probably around home, but certainly when they
got into say year twelve at school, they had part
time jobs. But you've got to balance that with making
sure it doesn't get carried away and you have too
many hours and they schoolwork suffers. But it's really important,
I think for them to start earning money and realizing
(33:11):
how much if it is to actually earn money, so
they get good, they motivated, to be honest.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
I think that that's probably the simple answer to all
of this, isn't it is that you suggested when I
because I talked to you about this off air before you're
coming on the show, about how do you make your
kids responsible for costs of damaging something? And you talked
about them doing jobs and chores, and even if they're young,
they do the dishes, an extra night a week or
(33:38):
something as simply recognizing that time is money. And then
as they get older, encouraging them to have a job
maybe because then they go, well that thing that you
wanted to buy, guess what you do another three days?
You know, three afternoons or evenings and away you go.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
And I think the person gets confidence if they've got
a job and they're earning money. They feel good about
themselves that they've got the ability to do that. So
you're powering them as well. Yeah, but in a way
that structures so they're not doing too much, of course.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I mean that's probably the biggest challenge, isn't it with
kids being Kids are busy these days.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Are and it's important they have opportunities to play sport
and take part in cultural activities.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah. Hey, so what's what's your next challenge on the
on the education front of you got a thing in
particular or is it all top secret at the moment?
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Top secret? I know, I'm just you know, it's it's
really good to be able to give something back to
the profession.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
What the what? What are leaders you'll basically talking with
principles and stuff. What's what's the most common challenge that
the leadership and teachers facing these days? Do you think anything?
Have you noticed any trends?
Speaker 4 (34:51):
I think change is always challenging, but I think teacher
shortage is a biggie for schools, and you know, because
they want the very best teachers in front of the students.
I think principles really conscious about making sure they make
good appointments.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Are the science positive that we're going to get better
on top of that, because that's a bit of a
political political discussion, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
But yes, I think there's been some great changes and
there's been some organizations set up which actually trained teachers
within schools, which I think is a really positive move
because they're actually getting hands on experience in a controlled
environment before they actually go into schools as teachers.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Oh well, hey, Sandy, thank you so much for coming
at least absolving me of being being a bit too
strict on the old accountability front. And we'll look forward
to catching you again.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Thanks to I enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Okay, we're going to be rapping sport with Reuben Mama
in just a moment. This is News Talk s ed B.
It is eleven and a half minutes to six.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
For more from the weekend collective, listen live to News
Talks EDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend collective podcast from News Talks Phenomena, Monomena, Phenomena.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
M.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yes, welcome back. I don't know why I just chose
to play mnomenapp, but it was somehow. It came across
my radar the other day and I thought, gosh, how
many people don't know the tu mnama up I mean
global It must be one of the most famous songs
there is. But it was all based on a French
or Italian composer may nor me no, which means of
course not or but no. But anyway, there's a bit
(00:59):
of trivia for you. But I thought it would be
a nice because we saw these we we all learned
that song probably when we're watching Sesame Street, which is
out some of their first doses of television education entertainment.
And so that sort of ties into in a very
long winded way to the parents squad, because we're gonna
have a chat about a couple of things. Recently. There
(01:21):
will have been you may or may not have gone
along to your parent teacher interviews and you know what,
should We're gonna have a bit of a chat about
what did you expect to get out of those parent
teacher interviews and do those expectations need to change as
you go so obviously, parent teacher interview five year old
you want chapter and verse, You want to I guess
(01:42):
you want to know that the teacher has got to
understand how your kid works and the how your kid
That sounds so terribly sling, how your child works and
what their challenges are, and you're going to you're looking
forward to an in depth conversation. But as time goes on,
maybe you know it's like speed dating. When you get
to secondary school, it's like hello, how is she good? Okay? Bye?
(02:05):
What do you expect to get from your parent teacher interviews?
We want to hear from you on eight hundred eighty
ten eighty, And we're also going to have a chat
based on just my own experience as a parent on
accountability and how far you need to go with teaching
your children and Mike in our case, sort of the
value of money, but accountability for causing damage? How do
(02:26):
you teach them? How far do you how far do
you make them front up for their own mistakes and
your own perhaps so anyway, lots to talk about. We
want your calls on eight hundred eighty ten eighty and
you can text on nine two nine two, but jump
on the blow. We'd love to hear from you and
joining us. She is former principal of Barradine. She's an
education expert. Let's just call her that. And her name
(02:48):
is Sandy Pasley And Sandy's with me now, Sandy, Hello,
how are you hi?
Speaker 4 (02:52):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Tom Good? Did you used to love the parent teacher
interviews because you would have done them as a parent, actually,
and as a teacher, which sounds like you'd be hard work, which.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Is very difficult. One of those people that actually took notes.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
As the parent.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
As a parent, of.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Course, Yeah, I took a notebook with me. I don't
think I wrote anything in it, because I mean one
of my daughters. I guess I should give them their
anonymity and not say which one, but I was sort
of The teachers were quite happy with her. And once
they said they were happy with her, I suddenly thought,
I need to ask something else. What do I need
(03:32):
to know? What do you think? Parents? Let's look at
the your most recent part of your careers at Bardine
High School parent teacher interviews. What are they about?
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Well? I think it's quite hard for a start, for
a teacher, can I give the teacher's side for a
little while, because you've got about one hundred and fifty
students and so you've got to be really on the ball,
have your information in front of you as a teacher.
But then I think it's really important for the to ask,
(04:06):
you know, is my child engaged? Is my daughter or
my son actually interested in learning? What do you see
them in interacting? And how do you see them interacting
in the classroom? Yeah, how are they doing?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
And are there any issues?
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And you've got to want to hear the answer too,
don't you.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Yes, definitely, And you probably want to know if they're doing,
they are achieving what you would expect them to be achieving,
and maybe are they working? Are they showing that they've
got a good work ethic?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Now, what did you ask your when you were a parent? Okay,
because I did try and differentiate it. Although I didn't
do it, I probably didn't give the reason. The reason
that you can expect a better meeting and a longer
meeting when your kids when your child is five or
sex is because they have one teacher and they've maybe
got twenty four to twenty five twenty six students, and
(04:56):
I think it's I mean, I think it's very important
to make the most of those opportunities to engage with
your children child's learning. Whereas, as you point out, for
a second school teacher, they've got maybe one hundred and
fifty students and you're lucky if you get an appointment,
to be honest, aren't you, Because there's so much time
in a day.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Yes, yeah, it's really hard in secondary schools, but it's
really crucial for those core subjects to know how your
child is doing.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Okay, so what did you ask? Let's put on Sandy
Paisley parent.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Probably the first thing i'd say is, you know, are
there any problems behavior in the class? Not that I
needed to, Yeah, it sounds like they had terrible children,
but I didn't.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Well that was actually that was what I asked in
the end, because your children are completely of what I've
learned is my children are completely different in school to
how they are at home. And every parent I've talked
to who got a positive glowing review said they sat
there going but does she talk back to you? Does she?
(05:54):
Because kids at school they're putting their best foot forward
and when they get home whatever they need to let out,
they let out. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Yeah, you see them differently as a parent, don't you.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, And I think that that was the thing that
stuck out to me. Well, actually, I'm not going to
brag about my kids, but they got some they were
nice meetings, and the school was happy with them. But
I was I was thinking, okay, but what about Actually,
in fact, a couple of times I said, does she
talk back to you? Does she do this? No? No,
it's fine. So what else should I have asked?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
It would be quite interesting to ask your student, your child,
before that you go to those interviews, you know, what
about that class? How do you think you're doing? Is
there any issues, so that you've got a bit of
background from their point of view as well?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Okay, that's the one. Yeah. I think the problem is
they just generally grit their teeth and they're just sort
of like, oh, okay, dad. Then you've got one in
five minutes and you go along and you're not going
to say, oh, you're not going to say that. That'll
be embarrassing if you make a joke about that. That's
their main thing as well. I'm going to embarrass them.
So what your questions were I've got I got off
the topic there because I was too busy gassing. But
(07:02):
so you would as a parent, you'd go on to
say how are they? How are they doing first? Are
they behaving? Are they cooperative member of the class? What
are the other things?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Academic progress? Of course, also in terms of social interactions,
because I think a teacher can see how a student's
interacting with their peers and that's important for interpersonal skills
and learning about how to work with others.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah, what were the things that you would look for
because in a way you are interviewing the teacher and
trying to get your own reckons that you are happy
to entrust your child to their care for their education.
So there will be parents whore like I mean, if
you if you're not sure and I don't want to
you don't want to fit, I mean, paranoid parents would
be quite a thing to deal with. But there would
(07:51):
be times when you'd be is there in a way
that is the parent testing the teacher as well that
I maybe I might have asked at some stage, asked
a question where you're hoping that she gives a certain answer,
because then that tells you, okay, they know my kid,
I can relax now, or do you think that's a
(08:12):
tricky situation.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
It is a tricky situation in a high school. It's
not a tricky situation.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
In primary school. In primary school, you would.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Expect them to know them really well. On high schools
it's a bit different. I think that the teacher, it's
really important not to come with preconceived ideas about the teacher.
And you certainly might have preconceived ideas if your child's
been talking about a particular teacher, and quite it would
(08:40):
be quite interesting just to sit there and try and
forget what your child said and you form your own view.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Actually I did have Well, there was one child who
had expressed reservations about a teacher, and then I met
the teacher. I said she's great, and she said, oh, yeah,
that was just at the start of the year. She's great.
Never bother to update me. We'd love to hear from you, though,
if you've got any questions for Sandy, because on what
to expect on this, because it isn't a way when
your kids get a bit older. It is a little
(09:09):
bit like a speed dating exercise. So what are the
questions that you have asked your teachers in the past,
or what have you wanted to learn? Because the other
cynical throwaway remark I might say is that probably if
the parents have gone to the effort of making sure
that they get an appointment, it's probably I'm imagining it.
(09:32):
Most of the time, they're always pretty positive because parents
are engaged in their children's learning, So it's almost like
job done before you've even met the teacher, because what
you guys want as a school is parents who are
engaged with their kids learning, with your child's learning. God,
I got assistop saying kids, sorry, but is that sort
of true? Job done?
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Absolutely, But it is a partnership tim right from the start,
and it's got to work, and there's got to be
trust on both sides.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Teachers would often say I get to see all the
probably all the parents I don't need to see, and
the ones I really want to see I don't see now.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
And that's and I don't know what the solution to
that is. I guess that's because things have to get
to a more dramatic point with the problem, with a
real problem with the learning, where you literally have to
say we need to see you, and that's there's the
parent teacher engagement, which is generally you know, nice, brief,
hopefully informative, and then there's this all this other territory
(10:31):
till there's a major problem. How do I mean, how
do you encourage parents to engage in it then? Because
also it's it's limited places, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yes, it is, It's hard. Now you just hope that
parents will come along and take the opportunity. Some schools
do that, I know, actually give some sort of signals
to parents if there's a concern pretty early on before
parent interviews, so that parents have got a bit of
a heads up that something might not be right, and
(11:01):
make sure that they come along to interviews, and they
follow up.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
But does sometimes a school even go so far as
to making sure there's a place available for that parent
and let's just wait. If we don't hear from them,
then we'll offer it up in a few days time
or something.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Absolutely so the dean will follow up and say, look,
I think it'd be great if you came along to
the interviews because we need to talk to you about.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
So how how much how can a parent be engaged
with their child's learning when they are going through those
teenage years because teenagers aren't necessarily the easiest sharers. They
whether they get homework or not. But so you have that,
you know, it seems to me that questions around being
engaged with the child's learning when they're five, six, and
(11:41):
seven and eight, that's a no brainer. I mean, it's
a young age. Hopefully the parents are in there, but
as they get older, you have to step back of it,
don't you. Is that was that for you a bit
of a journey as a teacher as well to hey mum,
back off. You know, I know you're a teacher.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
But it definitely was to because what did I know?
You know, your children don't realize what you know to
be able to assist them anyway. But it also is
the time in their lives when they're trying to be
independent and you've got to respect that. But it is
frustrating as a parent when you can see that they're
perhaps not doing the homework that they should be doing,
or you know they've already done it and they give
(12:18):
you that answer, no, got it sorted, and you worry
or that they haven't.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Because as part of that journey, I've I mean my
wife and I and again she doesn't like me to
share to I try not to. It's very difficult to
a parenting are because I come to it as a
parent and let them have a little bit of privacy
and their views and things. But it wouldn't be too
much to work out that my wife's a teacher, so
she is more switched on to these things, whereas so,
(12:45):
for instance, if there's some homework that might not be
getting done, my wife would be more regular at reminding them,
whereas I might be, well, hang on, they're getting to
this age. If they can't follow up on this, then
I'd like them to learn that mistake themselves. I'm not
sure I'm right, but you know, in terms of helping
(13:05):
them along, because there is a bit where you have
to pull back and it's like, well, I know you've
got that assignment. I'm not going to do it for you,
but how far should I participate in nudging them all
the time? Nagging them?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Even you were so right, because it's so hard to
teach and consequences, isn't it. And where do you step
back as a parent because you worry if you're actually
not in there supporting them and saying nagging them a
wee bit, yeah, it'll be a disaster. But it doesn't
work that way either, because then they rely on you.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
It is a funny way. I mean, what age do
you think you've got to start letting? I mean, it's
every child is different, I guess. But did you was
that an exercise you had to go through as a
parent where you're like, hey, on a minute, okay, I
know I want to I want to be involved and
tell them what they should be doing. But is there
did you have to force yourself to go okay, hands
off a little bit more?
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Oh? Definitely, that's tricky. Tim probably getting year nine and
ten on starting to think, well, they've got to actually
have a bit of motivation themselves. And it's so hard
because I know as a parent, when they kept forgetting
their lunch for instance, you know you see parents rocking
(14:17):
up to school with the lunch guilty yep. Whereas a
big good thing to do is not do that and
let them have the consequences of not having their lunch.
And they would only do it once, wouldn't they?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah? And what age would you do that? I guess?
I mean, I'm not going to drill into this too much.
We'd actually like to hear from you a little bit.
And look, I've already gone onto one of our other topics,
which is about accountability and consequences. But if you've got
any on the parent teacher interview, what do you look
for when you have that appointment with the teacher or
(14:49):
do you go along with what we've sort of concluded,
is that really the parents if you're one of those
parents who make sure that you make the appointment and
you get along to meet the teachers, just the fact
that you're their job done, that's all you need. Ask
a couple of questions. And that's great because it's Sandy
was indicating, maybe it's the parents you haven't made that effort,
but the ones at the school sometimes wants to see
(15:10):
how do you approach the speed dating give us if
you'd like to share with us your philosophies and how
you approach it. We'd love to hear from you. On
eight hundred eighty ten eighty. My guest is Sandy Pasley,
she's former principal at Barridine and we're going to get
on to the big one for me as well after
this is also teaching consequences and accountability. When do you
really start to go a bit harder on that oh
eight hundred eighty ten eighty text twenty two past five
(15:33):
News took said.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
B.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Okay, well, welcome back. This is the Parents Squad. I'm
Tim Beverbridge. My guest is Sandy Pasley. She's former principal
barret In College. That's when my girls go. And I
have talked about that before, you know, and we've been
having a bit of a chat just because it has
been the speed dating season of parent teacher interviews. But
also the other thing I wanted to talk about, Sandy,
was the bigger question about accountability. And I have one
(16:24):
of my daughters and look devices, so laptops, and there's
a lot, you know, there's a lot. It's expensive to provide,
you know, the apparel for your cons education these days.
And I've had one daughter who has turned out and
has broken her screen a couple of times, and it's
become quite expensive. And she sort of did roll out
a few excuses. And I know I mentioned to other
(16:47):
parents and every parent's gone, oh, yes, such and such
broke this and broke that. And I I'm going through
this thing because you want them to have the best
of everything. But I feel a bit grinchy because I've said, right,
total cost is over a thousand bucks over a couple
of years. I've said, we're taking one hundred and fifty
bucks out of your savings and you're going to watch
(17:08):
me do the transfer. And part of me thinks I'm
doing absolutely the right thing, and part of me feels
like an absolute not very nice person. And I don't
know where the antswer lies because I want her to
understand I don't want to punish her, but I want
to punish her, and I don't know how to deal
(17:29):
with it because it's, you know, I don't know, like
you don't know, what do you reckon?
Speaker 4 (17:35):
It's all about knowing the learning the value of money,
isn't it?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
And I guess so it is.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
A bit because I think that you know, if you
give them jobs early on and they do homework and
they can not homework, sorry, they do housework tools around
the house, then they get the sense that they've actually
earned something and they know how much they've earned, and
then then they can translate it to your frustrate of
(18:06):
actually another screen broken and it's so much money.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yeah, because I feel taking money out of savings doesn't
feel particularly good. I just want her to see the transaction. God,
I feel awful. So are you suggesting that maybe I
can get her to work it off or a bit
of both.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Yes, definitely, And I think you can ask ask her
to really reflect on you know, how would she feel
if she was in your shoes?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, the thing that triggered it was and again, look,
you know, I'm sorry I have shared something of my daughters,
but again, you know, everyone's children. They do damage to
things and they sometimes don't work it out. And she
was in the back of the car with her friend
and she meant and I mentioned it, and she sort
of sniggered, and I thought, that's that's if you're finding
this money.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yeah, but the snigger might be nervousness.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Oh possibly, or also it was you know, embarrassment. Yeah,
probably the whole It was my fault. I should have
kept it to myself. But look, I'd love to hearing
you of it as well as how do you teach
your kids about accountability, because there's some parents who go
quite hardcore on this stuff and say you're going to
earn every penny of that. And to me, as a parent,
I think I've accept that kids make mistakes, accidents happen,
(19:18):
and things like that, and you're there, you're there as
a parent to pick up the pieces, and ultimately, when
they're old enough, they don't even you don't even need
to ask them to pick up the pieces because they know.
But there's that middle ground, isn't there.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Yeah, I think you're on the right track, tim asking
for a contribution.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Yeah, do you think going unto the savings and going
here's your account, here's it going to trans we're going
on holiday. I'm always tempted to maybe I could say,
guess what such and such dinners on you tonight?
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Yeah, but maybe ask you what does she thinks fore you?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Ah, she has suggested a sort of figure, which is
I said it might be a bit more than that.
I mean, yeah, anyway. But the other thing was because
one of the that kids will throw up is like
I don't know how that happened, or I didn't do
anything or such and such and somebody must have, you know,
(20:11):
dumped their bag and this is how it happened. And
my line to her was, well, it doesn't really matter.
You were in charge of that, and when you're in
charge of that, when you're grown up, it doesn't matter
how it happened. You were responsible. I feel such a
grinch though, as I say that to you.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Oh no, no, no, I think taking responsibility is really
important to be a good citizen and to be a
nice person and to have empathy.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, I mean yeah, Look, you send your texts through
as well. By the way, here's one that says our kids.
This is close to where I'm at anyway, Our kids
pay ten percent of costs due to damage, which is
sort of and it says they have jobs to do
purely because they're living in the house. And oh here's
the thing though, the idea of them working it off,
(20:58):
that would have to be extra jobs as opposed to,
you're a member of this household, you do the dishes
because you're a member of the household, as opposed to
Dad's car needs cleaning within an inch of its life.
We can give you some money for that. What do
you reckon?
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Yeah, I think that's very sensible, the extra jobs. Your
car I'm sure needs cleaning. Oh sorry.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Funny thing is that was true as of yesterday, but
I actually cleaned it myself and thought, gosh, I should
be getting my daughter to do this. But I mean,
how far would you take it when it comes to
expensive items of equipment and things. I guess it's just
something as a parent. You know, education costs, and that's
the way it is.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
I think it has to be reasonable. I think if
it's too much, it just becomes too hard for them. Yeah,
and you know they wouldn't necessarily learn the lesson. It
would just then it wouldn't be a really good lesson
to learn. I think there's got to be a fine
line between saying you have to pay one thousand dollars
or saying you have to.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Pay I mean, it gets the question about how school's
discipline as well, because those years have changed. You would
have seen a lot of changes over the years in
terms of how you introduce accountability of course with boys' schools,
especially out and how it worked with girls skills its
corporal punishment and all that sort of thing. And I
must say there's probably a couple of lessons I lent
through corporal punishment that it didn't didn't do me any
(22:23):
I'm not sure. I think it worked a couple of times, probably,
but most of the time it just felt like an injustice.
But is it harder to introduce accountability and discipline to
kids these days or.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Easier I don't think it's too hard. I think what
is really hard is when you've got when you're trying
to teach students accountability and the parents are on the
side of the student and do everything to defend them
and don't realize that they're actually doing their childhood disservice.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Is that quite common?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
No? No, I didn't strike it very often at all.
But the times I did strike it, I felt sorry
for the student actually, because they weren't going to learn
from the experience.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
So what are the ways that generally? What are other
ways that kids are disciplined these days at school?
Speaker 4 (23:13):
I mean, well, there's various ways. If it's something that's
you know, sometimes it's a matter of having a meeting
with a dean and having a talk through what happened
and reflecting on what happened and the effect it had
on others. Sometimes it might be merely staying after school
and having to do something after school to help the school.
(23:37):
Sometimes it could be if it's more serious, a stand
down or a suspension is the key.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
To it, really, I think it is the key to
it with kids. And I know we're sort of talking
around lots of topics here, but is it all about
I mean, in a way setting the expectations in the
first place, because I must say that is something that
probably shone through to us when we started our kids
at Barradine, is that you sort of sign up to
a set of expectations. I can't remember how it happened.
(24:03):
I just remember thinking, don't mess with these guys. Sorry,
came out of it harsh, didn't.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
It a little bit? I think it's important to have expectations,
and I think that it's important to have clear boundaries actually,
because I think that young people, if they understand the boundaries,
they work with them. It sometimes not always, but mostly.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
It's what about when it just I mean, okay, when
it comes to accountability and getting the best out of
your kids, it's obviously things if you've got to go
have a meeting with the dean, then something's got reasonably serious.
But just how do kids get what's the best way
to encourage them to start self regulating? Because I think
this is what it's all about. That you have a
point when they're little, that you cover the basis for
them all the time. Then you introduce responsibility. But at school,
(24:50):
how do you what are the most effective tools for
motivating kids just to keep on top of what they
should be doing.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
I think it's important to encourage the student to look
at what they did and who it affected, and how
would they like if it happened to them. I think
that's always a really good way of seeing if they
can reflect and they can have that empathy for others,
because that's something also important for schools to teach.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
What about when it comes to doing well for themselves
and motivating and all that sort of thing. It is
that a school culture thing or is it a teacher
by teacher thing? What is that?
Speaker 4 (25:24):
I think that's where teachers step up and encourage. I
think the praise is really important when you see them
doing something really good, that you actually acknowledge it and
that praise and everybody wants to be acknowledged when.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
They Yeah, when they're doing well.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Definitely.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Yeah. I've got a few texts to get to address
here which will throw these at your hairs, Sandy. One
person just says, stick with it, Tim, You've got to
keep I think the thing that if your child has
got a sense of entitlement and then that's something you
do need to address, isn't it When they don't take
anything recently heard on the radio. School reports aren't going
to be sent anymore. I thought, surely not well passed it.
(26:07):
What's this? I might need to dig into that a
bit more and we'll come back. We'll come back to
that in just a second. Question for Sandy, what do
you do when you run out of time in a
parent teacher interview as the parent, as the teacher has
spent all the time talking instead of asking the parents
if they have questions or concerns.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
I think you say to the teacher, look, I've got
a few questions that we haven't had time to actually ask.
I will email them to you, and I'd be really
appreciative if you could get back to me with it.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Okay, hey, look we're going to take a break. We'd
love to hear from you. One hundred and eighty and
eighty teaching kids about accountability and consequences, and I shared
my story about the financial cost of having to repair
broken laptop screens. Am I being too harsh in making
my child pay some of that out of her savings? Actually,
I'll be honest. There's a bunch of birthday presents that
(26:58):
come in and their preisy cards, and I'm like, those
are all mine. That's how they're being paid for until
we can come up with another scheme. So you tell
me if I'm being a bit harsh on that one
hundred eighty ten eighty, Sandy, you don't need a dis handling.
But right now we'll be back in just to take
it's twenty three minutes to sex News Talks here by.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
Here I go again, Mama does show against.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
That's welcome to the Weekend Collective. This is the parents Squad,
my guest to Sandy Pasley's which formed the principal of
Barradine School, which is where my kids go. And that's
how actually you know, Sandy and when you're retired from
that particular role, because you're not retired now, are you, Sandy.
You're you're doing a whole bunch of other things in education,
keeping yourself busy, aren't you.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I am. I'm being an education consultant helping supporting schools
in Auckland.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
How hard was it to step away from being the
principal role?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Are you?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
And have you come to terms with it yet or
is it? Is it still because it's a huge part
of your life and a culture, a culture and a
community like Barradine, what's it like?
Speaker 4 (28:03):
I really miss it, but it was time. But I
love the students. I love seeing them come to school
smiles on their faces and everything about it and the
ability to have some influence in their lives along with
all the fair better stuff I work with it. Mariting.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine, because I just imagine being
part of any community like that would and you step
away from it, given the role you've had, would be
you probably have to tell yourself, can I turn up
to this event? But maybe not that one irrationing the events.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Exactly because I'm also conscious it's Alex's role now and
it's really important that she established herself. And yes, so yeah,
you've just got to move on. I think sometimes in
life on.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
The accountability thing, somebody said there was a caller who
pook called out didn't want to go on a sez.
He points out, he basically tells their kids how many
hours it would take for them to work off on
the minimum wage to pay off the damage to something
they've caused. Again, it still feels grinchy that, but I
guess there's just got to be a gentle way of saying, hey.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Look, maybe if that you did that, but then reach
to compromise. At least it would give them the idea
of how much it would yeah, the value of it all.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, I don't think they're making it work them off.
I think they just say, look, if someone's on the
minimum wage, they're going to have to turn up to
school for it. They're going to turn up to wherever
it is for a week or three days to pay
for that. I mean that wouldn't hurt. Yeah, I guess
it's you know, you've still got to do it with
love and affection and all that sort of thing. Another
person says it is important to not horrible definitely have
(29:44):
children work it off and agree that the jobs upfront
as well as the agreed value of the job. And
they also make the point that sometimes the machines are
so sensitive that you can I think there's a comment
about it can break. It's pretty easy to break these things.
That's a frustrating thing as well. I think every parent
I've mentioned it too says, oh, yeah, such and such
broke this and broke that. That's the problem with lugging
(30:06):
laptops around. Education is expensive these.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Days, isn't it it is?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Somebody says send your kids to live with someone in
the country for a year and new appreciation of life.
Another one about the parent teacher contact. If the school
rings about our daughter, we pretty much expect that she
has done it, and she pretty much always has. We
(30:31):
got a call saying our son had done something wrong
and had a detention for him for it. It didn't
sound like him and he said it wasn't. So we
asked the dean to reinvestigate. Some got an apology and
a block chocolate our kids, and our kids know that
we always bank them. That's an interesting story, isn't it.
(30:52):
So they knew their daughter well enough to think well,
but in the case of the other child, they decided
to challenge it. How do you deal with that at
the school? Actually, when people say are you sure.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
I think the school did the right thing by investigating
and finding out that they were wrong.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
The block of chocolate to say, so, okay, the I
think you can still support your child and agree and
support the school as well, because I think by supporting
the school and maybe the punishment that's been given, you're
also supporting your child. Yeah. Yeah, longest, that's.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
The end of it. When they've done the punishment, that's
also important.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Somebody's also talked about the insurance success. Actually, I mean,
I guess the reason I've been uncomfortable with this is
that no one really likes having to You don't like
having to worry about that sort of stuff, and in
focusing out were talking about it on radio. It just
feels like too much. But I guess it's just the
gentle question is about there are consequences and gently introducing
(31:57):
that without and everything I've said as I've been talking
to you, I feel that I'm being a complete heel
about it.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
You're not at all anyway being a good parent.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Well, thank you, Sandy. You know it's nice to have
a little bit of absolution on these things. And another
person says, if you don't teach them, who will and
who and will another teach them with the right lessons
in mind. So yeah, basically saying, yeah, it is for
parents to take that step. Tom, I was mowing lawns
(32:27):
at seven for a paying customer twenty five percent, but
on old money, that money was mine. I always had
an income from then on. In raality, I earned more
per hour. Sorry, this is the grammar of this has
confused me a bit, But actually, when do you actually
encourage your kids to start. You know, did you do
your kids ever have jobs? When they were thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Eighteen were jobs probably around home, but certainly when they
got into say year twelve at school, they had part
time jobs. But you've got to balance that with making
sure it doesn't get carried away and you have too
many hours and they schoolwork suffers. But it's really important,
I think for them to start earning money and realizing
(33:11):
how much if it is to actually earn money, so
they get good, they motivated, to be honest.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
I think that that's probably the simple answer to all
of this, isn't it is that you suggested when I
because I talked to you about this off air before you're
coming on the show, about how do you make your
kids responsible for costs of damaging something? And you talked
about them doing jobs and chores, and even if they're young,
they do the dishes, an extra night a week or
(33:38):
something as simply recognizing that time is money. And then
as they get older, encouraging them to have a job
maybe because then they go, well that thing that you
wanted to buy, guess what you do another three days?
You know, three afternoons or evenings and away you go.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
And I think the person gets confidence if they've got
a job and they're earning money. They feel good about
themselves that they've got the ability to do that. So
you're powering them as well. Yeah, but in a way
that structures so they're not doing too much, of course.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I mean that's probably the biggest challenge, isn't it with
kids being Kids are busy these days.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Are and it's important they have opportunities to play sport
and take part in cultural activities.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah. Hey, so what's what's your next challenge on the
on the education front of you got a thing in
particular or is it all top secret at the moment?
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Top secret? I know, I'm just you know, it's it's
really good to be able to give something back to
the profession.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
What the what? What are leaders you'll basically talking with
principles and stuff. What's what's the most common challenge that
the leadership and teachers facing these days? Do you think anything?
Have you noticed any trends?
Speaker 4 (34:51):
I think change is always challenging, but I think teacher
shortage is a biggie for schools, and you know, because
they want the very best teachers in front of the students.
I think principles really conscious about making sure they make
good appointments.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Are the science positive that we're going to get better
on top of that, because that's a bit of a
political political discussion, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
But yes, I think there's been some great changes and
there's been some organizations set up which actually trained teachers
within schools, which I think is a really positive move
because they're actually getting hands on experience in a controlled
environment before they actually go into schools as teachers.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Oh well, hey, Sandy, thank you so much for coming
at least absolving me of being being a bit too
strict on the old accountability front. And we'll look forward
to catching you again.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Thanks to I enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Okay, we're going to be rapping sport with Reuben Mama
in just a moment. This is News Talk s ed B.
It is eleven and a half minutes to six.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
For more from the weekend collective, listen live to News
Talks EDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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