Chris Jones: BBC rugby commentator on the side beating the All Blacks 33-19

The UK has emerged victorious following their morning clash against the All Blacks.

The hosts rallied from a 12-nil deficit to deny New Zealand an unbeaten Northern Tour - and walked away with a 33-19 win.

BBC rugby commentator Chris Jones joined Piney to discuss.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks edb card for.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
The drup goal Ford gets it over.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Sticking roller back for Fordno a drunkickno a drug.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Kick back to back drop goals from George Ford at
the back end of the first half, bringing them back
into the game, getting getting them close enough to strike
after halftime. Let's get an English viewpoint on this occasion.
It's a great pleasure to welcome in Chris Jones from
the BBC, who called the game for BBC five Live. Chris,
thanks for taking our call and for joining us across

(00:42):
New Zealand. What impressed you the most about England's performance
at Twickenham today?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, I Jason, good to speak to you from the
streets of twicken Them with the crowds just dispersing after
a pretty famous day for this England side. I think
that the bit that will stick around is just the
way they were able to, you know, keep coming back.
They started the game well England, then the All Blacks
had that little or patch at twelve nil. You thought, oh,
this is going to be another story of kind of

(01:10):
All Black ruthlessness and English wastefulness. But the way they
went in at twelve eleven and then just just predominant
after halftime was a real sign of how this team
is coming on under Steve Borthwick. George Ford, who had
a few chances to win the game this time last year,
was fantastic. The bench didn't even have to make the
impact they were slated to because England had that healthy lead.

(01:32):
So big one for England this They needed to take
a major scalp and they've done it and they roll
on England.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
Wait, as you say, from twelve nil down to twenty
five twelve a hid between minutes twenty five and fifty five,
What did you specifically see change in that period compared
to the first twenty five minutes of the match.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yes, I think England actually did have a good first ten,
didn't they. They had that opportunity where Sam Underhill couldn't
quite get it away, They had a hold up over
the line Alex Coles. They were creating and looking pretty
lively with ball in hand. I think against it team
like New Zealand, even though you know, you guys will
tell me about how frustrating it probably is following the

(02:13):
All Blacks at the moment because It's kind kind of
a few steps forward and one step back, because every
time it looks like they're getting some rhythm, they put
an inconsistent performance.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
But they're always going to have their patches.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
And you know that ten minutes where they scored those
two tries, they did look like an all black team
of ole. But as we know from Chicago, as we
know from Edinburgh, as we know from Wellington against the Box,
as we know from from Argentina, away, this all black
team of vulnerable and there could be periods where you
can get on top of them. And I think England
had that face that that would come and just the

(02:46):
way they were able to keep their composure at twelve
twelve neel down shows that the side is really developing,
not just sort of physically and tactically, but mentally as well.
And yeah, I think I think those two drop goals
with George Ford, all of his experience come into the
fore there and they just managed to go into halftime
with some momentum. And that's been really frustrating for Scott

(03:07):
Robertson because of twelve mil it looked like the All
Blacks could have put the game away and ultimately that
in the end, they were well beaten because England, if
you look at the game apart from that period what
ten ten to twenty five, the rest of it was
pretty much mainly dominated by England.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Absolutely absolutely, You mentioned him there with his drop goals,
but how intigral was George Ford to this victory across
the entire edge.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, it's really interesting to look up the makeup of
the England back line. There's a lot of good talented players,
but many favor Bosa has not gone many caps, not
as Tom Roebuck. Freddie Stewart's a bit more experienced, as
is Marcus Smith when he came on, but Fraser Dinghals
at the start of his international journey.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
Only Laurence's been around for a bit.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
But there aren't you know, there aren't Henry Slades and
Manitor Langy's and Owen Farrell's, Johnny May's and Nancy Watson's
and players with fifty sixty seventy caps in there. So
having someone like Ford's who's able to just get that
that pulse of a game really well, you know, he's
He's done that his whole career. He's able to, i think,
manipulate the scoreboard more than ever. We saw in Marseille

(04:14):
at the World Cup a couple of years ago when
England were under the pump against Argentina and man down
his drop goals changed the whole course of the game.
And you know, I sit in commentary on BBC Radio
with guys like Paul Grayson and Matt Dawson who came
from an era of English rugby where they used to
just kill teams with drop goals, and they've gone out
the game so much then they come back at World Cups,
have a bit of researchers, then go out again and

(04:36):
teams always kick for the corner or they try and
go through the phases. But what a weapon it is
if you can just hit teams with threes when they
haven't done too much wrong. And I think that's what
will or Scott robertson might Field tonight is. Actually when
twelve miler up there, there wasn't a huge amount of New
Zealand did wrong, but the way England were able to
hit them with those two blows to go in twelve

(04:57):
to eleven and then just just just dominate after halftime
or contributed to the English win.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Where do you think England are at two years out
from the next world up.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Good place for sure. I mean I would say there
are still areas they can improve. And that was Steve
Borthwick's message tonight. He was far from well. He was satisfied.
He was dead shaff, don't get me wrong, But he
wasn't saying we're a finished article. He knows that that
the England team is still a bit off. They got
picked apart at line out time. There may be a
heavy duty ball carrier or two down, one or two

(05:30):
other areas where if you were being really ruthless you
would say, oh, they could do with an extra body there,
or an extra a certain type of player here. But
on the whole, if you'd said to an England fan,
an England player, after what happened in Dublin, they were
they started the Six Nations, were really chasing defeat away
in Ireland second half blown away and you thought, oh,

(05:52):
France next, Scotland next, Where do England go from here?
Well they've won the ten since then, which is massive
testaments to the group, massive testament to Steve Borthwick and
his coaching team. He's made a few changes to his backgroom.
I know that's a big thing in All Blacks the
moment because there's been a bit of a revolving door
around the Robertson regime.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
It's been similar with Borthwick.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
People have come, they've been coming and going, but he's
now got a pretty settled coaching team that looks in
for the long haul and I think you're seeing that
with it with with with England's play. Look, there's still
nowhere near the box. I don't think many teams are.
England would be up there as favorites to win the
Six Nations, but no guarantee at all. They've got to
go to Paris, which is a really tough place to go.

(06:33):
So yeah, I don't think any England fans leaving and
thinking this is this is suddenly you know work up here,
here we come. I think there's still a bit of
a way to go. But for England to be ten
wins in a row, given where they've been over the
last few years, a brilliant effort.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
And for New Zealand. You were here last year at
the start of Scott Robertson tenure. You watch them again
at the end of last year again today, how do
you assist where the All Blacks are at the midway
point last World Cup cycle.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, it's hard that they're not in a place they'd
want to be. Weirdly, I just I just still still
not sure what type of team they are. I think
they play a load of rugby and a weird part
of the pitch. They reminded me a bit of what
the Wallabies were trying to do a couple of years ago,
a couple of weeks ago at Twickenham, kind of feeding
the English defense by playing a lot of face rugby

(07:17):
around the halfway line.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
They don't seem to have that real connection in their face.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Played the great All Blacks team out of the past,
where you'd have little tip ons from Brodier Italic and
players really hitting the line at speed. There's an issue
at tennis and there Boden had an off day, maybe
more soon to fall back. His line kicking was all
over the place. Damian McKenzie is a is a world beater,
but how does he how is he deployed? Are they

(07:41):
just killing time waiting for Richie Muwanga. You would really
hope by now there had been a younger tent coming
through to put pressure on Boden, to put pressure on
McKenzie to put pressure on Wanger because Muwanga can't just
go away to Japan for a few years and then
just walk back into the shirt. But that's what's looking
quite likely. So a confusing team because at times they
play rugby from the gods, but in tiny little patches. Yeah,

(08:03):
and on the whole it's hard to see major progression
in the in the sort of twenty six test matches
Robertson's had. I think that it was a very good
series win against England in hindsight, given that had no
time together, but twenty six tests down the track, you
may have wanted a bit more development. But having said that,
this England team have only really started to hit their

(08:24):
straps under Steve Worthwick about thirty thirty five test matches
matches into his regimes. So still a long way to
go to the World Cup twenty seven, and you still
would never bet against New Zealand being big consenders for
that tournament.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
All right, we'll take some consolation from their grade. Skajer
and tight Chris and joy everything in Southwest London.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
Man, good to see, good chat.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
Good on youay, thanks to day Chris Jones, the wonderful
Chris Jones joining us out of the BBC in.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
London for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen
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