Full Show Podcast: 03 November 2024

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
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Speaker 2 (00:28):
Talk s ed B.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Tell Good afternoon, Malcolman. This is the Sunday edition of
Weekend Sport on News Talk sad B. Four November the third,
Happy birthday to formed black Caps Brian Young and lead
jam On. I'm Jason Pine Show producer Andy McDonald. We're
here with you until three.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
They're looking for the best opportunity for the truck.

Speaker 5 (00:48):
Go George Sport for the truck.

Speaker 6 (00:50):
Go for the truck.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Do make away.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
It is away your bit when I'm brother looking.

Speaker 7 (01:05):
Twenty four twenty five.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
High drama at Twickenham this morning, All Blacks twenty four
England twenty two. All Black's assistant coach Scott Hansen standing
by the chat to us, your assessment absolutely encouraged. As well.
The New Zealand fifteen enables had a win beating Monster
thirty eight twenty four, couple of late tries giving them
a comfortable win after months they had got within two

(01:29):
points midway through the second half. Other matters around today,
Auckland FC have won the first professional football derby here
in New Zealand and a league bragging rights over Wellington Phoenix.
Double goal scoring hero Jake Brimmer is on the show
after one. Tonga have bet in the Kiwis twenty five
twenty four in Rugby League's Pacific Championship. Another thriller at

(01:52):
Mount Smart last night. We'll cover that before you. Speaking
of league Scharco is a feature documentary about New Zealand
rugby league legend Mark Graham. It's been made by his son,
filmmaker Luke Graham. So Luke and Graham both in studio
with us after two coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith popping in
and talking about the distinctly key wee qualities that make

(02:15):
us punch above our weight and sport. James mcconey along
in his regular slot as well. Live Sport while we're
on the air this afternoon. Ford Trophy Cricket. This is
the fifty over stuff for men Round four, just going
from North to South and Hamilton. Auckland have won the
toss elected to bold first against Northern Northern one twenty
six for four through twenty three overs and Rungiyoder The

(02:36):
Central Stags won the toss and sent Canterbury into bat.
They're ninety six for three and the twenty third over
and Indnita Otago won the toss and elected to bat
first against Wellington. They are one hundred and four for
two in the twenty second over. Round six action in
the Men's and women's National Football League and a few
NBA games to keep tabs on this afternoon as well
as always, though, you are a big part of this show,

(02:58):
probably the biggest part. Join us if you like. Eight
hundred eighty ten eighty is our phone number. You can
text your thoughts on anything you hear to nine two
or flick me an email Jason at Newstalk SB dot
co dot m Z nine and a half past midday when.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
It's down to the line. You made a call on
ten eighty Weekend Sport with Jason Hines News Talks.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
Heb Damien's been timed out before five four. Get it away, Damien,
kick sit tix it, fix it Headtiver You're black.

Speaker 5 (03:30):
Second find of tricking twenty.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Four twenty two. Get it away, Amien. That's how it
finished all Blacks twenty four England twenty two. All Black's
assistant coach Scott Hansen is with us. Scott, thanks for
joining us. What's your overall assessment first of all of
the All Black showing in this test match?

Speaker 8 (03:47):
Good eight, Jason. You firstly a test match exactly that
there were swings and flows and within that we weren't
always at our best. However we found a way. Really
proud of the boys in the end getting where we
needed to be and fining away at talking them. Yeah,

(04:07):
pretty important for us to do that well, and we're
pretty proud of the boys.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
Let's drill down into the way the boys found a way,
as you say, twenty two fourteen down with twelve minutes
to go, can you give us your assessment of the
way the team played in the last twelve minutes of
the game.

Speaker 9 (04:26):
Just some composure.

Speaker 8 (04:28):
We hit our scrum that gave us some penalties and
it gave us field of advantage. As we came down,
we adjusted our attack. We're a bit shorter in the ruck,
caused a bit of stress and then by the end
we're able to get to the edge with Mark. So
I just thought from that sixty to seventy minute moment
we showed some really good composure and growth. The impacts

(04:53):
that came on Reigarde as an example, put us in
the idea of the field and we're really able to
put a lot of pressure on England. And then when
we came down to the end of the game. Did
to see the effort at the end when went for
the drop goal. I think there was five All Blacks
off their feet, sore, encourage and here to get to
the foot and apply that pressure. So again really proud

(05:16):
of the boys and some good learnings from the test.
Also just on the.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Performance in the last the last fifteen minutes or so,
as you and I've chatted about, as a lot of
people have talked about, it hasn't been the best period
for the All Blacks in twenty twenty four. Has it
been something you've specifically looked at you the way you
play the final quarter of a Test match.

Speaker 8 (05:39):
Well, the thing there is you've always got to adjust
to what those moments are. So sometimes you're in front,
these other times you've got to dig in and earn
some right to apply pressure and get in the radea
of the field and get into the front. So there's
always moments around it. Yes, we sit down with the group,
we go through scenarios around that. But at the end

(06:00):
of the day, what we saw today was a lot
of courage. I thought right through our game we always
we didn't always get it right. A short pass game
at times gave us a really good advantage. But what
I was in particular croud of was our ability to play.
We were brave and were always we didn't always get

(06:20):
it right, but we were brave and in the end
that gave us the result we were after.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
Mark Talaya with two of you tries, the second just trademark.
Mark Delay with his elusiveness down the right wing touch line.
Do you think it's taken him a bit of time
to get going in twenty twenty four, but do you
feel like he's back to where where you need him
to be.

Speaker 8 (06:40):
It was a very good performance from him, wasn't it.
Two tries today, strong on the edge. You think about
the year we were needed to go contestable kicks, Mark
winning them in the right spots as a performance that
he can be, really proud of him, really happy for him.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Damien McKenzie with a clutch conversion. He almost ran the
shot clocked down I'm not sure if you were watching it.
I know we were back here. Were always confident that
Damien would nail it.

Speaker 8 (07:08):
Oh, we all know Damien, don't we. He's a gambler,
he's great, so he's brave. He's going to kick that
and in any way in that moment he's he's in
the moment, he's kicking to win it, but he's got
no pressure around where.

Speaker 10 (07:25):
He's at with it.

Speaker 8 (07:26):
Was really happy for him was he lined it up.
He was confident. It was never going to be about
that kick. It was always going to be around the
moments before it at the end of the day. But
for him to line up be so confident, that's just
the Damien McKenzie. We all know, brave and from that
you know we're in a position to win a Test.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
I just want to ask you about an incident earlier
in the second half. Bodhen Barrett straight away to score
a try called back a penalty to England for a
deliberate knock on by Caleb Clark. What did you make
of that incident?

Speaker 8 (08:01):
Yeah, to be honest, Jason, like, I'm not going to
ever challenge a riff's decision. I thought, you know, the
key bit was how we responded to it. So the
decision was made by the officials around it, Caleb whether
or not who was coming up to or plow pressure
through the through the tackle where the arm was loose.

(08:22):
At the end of the day, the decision was made.
What we look at as a group is well, how
did we respond? And the response was was good do
we need to put ourselves in that position? We actually
encourage the boys to come up, have their their hands
and not put themselves in those positions. So it'll be
a clip that we showed calib around. Could you do
this differently next time because you don't really want to

(08:45):
be in those positions and probably in that moment if
you've got his hand in closer and gone for a
dominant tackle, maybe that decision doesn't need to be made.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
So you talk about the growth areas that are still
to come in the side or what do you perceive
them specifically to be?

Speaker 8 (09:02):
What it's the group, it's a group learning to play together.
You look at a Wallace, a Tti, you look at
a Cortes that all these young men that are becoming
all blacks and understanding what Test match rugby is about.
You look around the transition of what our leadership group
looks like. Scooter Barretts in his first year is an
all Black captain. So when you talk about learnings, it's

(09:23):
all those layers. There's a number of them. When we
went to South Africa, we learned a lot about ourselves
around game and we understand that. You know today, we
weren't always at our best. But the key thing is,
and I hope what people were proud of was we
were brave.

Speaker 9 (09:38):
We played.

Speaker 8 (09:39):
We didn't always get it right, but in the end
of the day, because we were brave, we got on
there right here in the field.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
The penalt account was a but lop sided against you,
Wasn't it? Is that a concern at all?

Speaker 9 (09:50):
I think so?

Speaker 8 (09:51):
I think was it? And so I haven't seen the
stats from the game, just being there alive and feeling it,
so feelings not always facts. But I think the first
half was nine to one and that's not a position
we want to That's not a position we want to
put us around. That's what was our accuracy, Like, we
weren't making smart decisions at times around where we're playing pressure.

(10:14):
We put ourselves in positions where England were applying scoreboard
pressure because of the penalty so we do have to
be better than that. So definitely, as we go through
the week we'll acknowledge well what does that look like
and get some better solutions. But at the end of
the day Test match rugby, you can't be nine to
one on the penalty accounts and I think it was

(10:35):
that in the first half.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Just a couple more for you, Scott. I'm glad you
mentioned Wallace the TT. You know you don't want to
pump a young guy's ties up too much, but has
he developed quicker in the Black Jersey than you thought
he would?

Speaker 8 (10:49):
Oh, he's coming and if you look at his performances,
he's been dominant. He's been dominant around what has ball carriers, influencers, speed,
has change of speed. He's a young, composed All Black
and he's got a long runway. He will get better.
We're just really proud of what a Weeks looks like
in his preparations. He's humble, he's a great young man

(11:12):
and to see him perform so well on the All
Backs Jersey and what it is his first year and
you come back to your qustomers, I think it's a
fair one around what are our learnings, Well, these are
the learnings that again Wallace t is having every weekend
playing Test Match Ruby for the all backs around where
he can choose his moments and what they look like.
So we're really encouraged around Wallace's performances and also the

(11:40):
people around him that are allowing him to do that.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
And finally you're off to Ireland now. But it's a
shorter turnaround a Friday night game over there. So does
the shorter turnaround markedly effect the way you build up
towards the next Test match?

Speaker 8 (11:57):
Yeah, well tonight we've got to regroup around where were at.
There's a number of boys that are pretty sore. It's
a very tough test match here Twickenham, England home. Those
first couple carries that came around the corner, it was
very very physical. We've had a number of players leave
the field well through heada HII issues, so we're looking

(12:20):
at that also. You go into Ireland on a shorter week, Yes,
but you wake up tomorrow proud of the performance today
and as all Blacks will go, well where can we
be better? And we'll get excited around the opportunity to
face Ireland and on their home too.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
For also congrats on the win, Scott.

Speaker 8 (12:39):
Thanks for your time, mate, Thanks for your time, Jason,
cheers mate.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Thanks Scott. Scott Hanson assistant coach. Quite late there, so
thanks for staying up for a Scott, I appreciate it
very much. Indeed, your chance to give your views now
on this Test match. Anything you heard there from Scott
Hanson or or something, or a few things that you
picked up while watching the game this morning at eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty lines open on this one.
I have to say I think I love the Test

(13:04):
a proper Test match. I don't know if we're going
to win or lose all the way through. That made
it a bit stressful, yes, but the All Blacks found
a way. They found a way to win the game,
and that is a trademark of this team down the years. Yes,
there's a long way to go, of course there is,
but they'll take the win. That is three from three

(13:24):
now against England this year. All of them close, but
all of them wins. Wallace to Tt, my word, what
a player, Absolutely magnificent.

Speaker 11 (13:36):
Again.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
The guy has just built differently, isn't he could be
anything he wants to be. Wallace to Tt, great to
see Mark Delayer getting his groove back a couple of tries,
that second one. He has got no right to score
that second try. His superpower has always been his elusiveness.
And the try that tied it up at twenty two
or was the personification of that He raally had no
right to score that. It was George Ford I think

(13:58):
who fell off the tackle, which was just part of
a rather disappointing cameo off the bench for George Ford
with that miss tackle, a miss penalty and the mistroppy
at the end bench impact for New Zealand pretty good
pussily or TOSSI off at the fussy Patrick to a
plot to Cameroy gard I thought were all pretty good
off the bench work ons as I say, certainly wasn't

(14:19):
the perfect performance by any stretch of the imagination. Too
many turnovers, too many penalties given away eleven in total,
eight in the first half alone. Eight penalties in the
first half, many of them kickable, and that kept England
in touch. Really a superhi more seventy five minutes out there,
which he wouldn't have expected. Good around the field, but
his line out throwing still needs work. I know he'll
acknowledge that probably other things to quibble about as well,

(14:41):
But I go back to the school board. They found
a way. All year we've been puzzled by this side's
lack of punch from minutes sixty to eighty. This morning
we saw it. The All Blacks came over the top
of an opponent away from home, just like they used to.
Oh eight, one hundred and eighty ten eighty. If you'd
like to add your analysis, Hello, Scott, kick us off.

Speaker 12 (15:04):
Yeah, Hi, Hey, Look, I thought it was a great
game and so good to come away with the win,
but I feel like it should have been so much easier.
You know, near the end of the game, the commentator said, oh,
it's a different ball game now, we have to keep
the ball in the hand and play a different game,
and all of a sudden we come through and win

(15:24):
the match. And earlier in the game, you've got caught
his radaman doing his box kicks and just giving them
possession all the time, And I just cannot understand why
we just keep kicking these box kicks giving them possession.
When we do keep it in hand, we play so
much better and we score, and we scored enough tries
to win the match. We just made it hard for

(15:46):
ourselves by giving them possession. They get down our winter
penalty and score the points.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
I guess if you are Dave Scott, i'd say we're
playing a tactical kicking game for field position. That's what
they probably say. I would say, But box kicks.

Speaker 12 (16:02):
Aren't kicking for rarely, you know, gaming territory, just kicking
it up there, and you know, more than fifty percent
of the time we don't get the position back. It's
just I just do not understand it. And I think
the All Blacks could make it so much easier for
themselves just by.

Speaker 3 (16:19):
Holding on to it. Yeah, the box gick is such
an interesting one, Sculp. We could probably run a whole
show on it. But you're right, I mean, it's I
think the tactic is sound if there are chases, if
they're contestable, And I think you're right. And I don't
think Cortez Letama had the most accurate of games off
the boot this morning, either. But yeah, I know it
frustrates a lot of people, and I can hear it

(16:40):
in your voice as well.

Speaker 12 (16:43):
But you saw it, you know you saw it at
the end when they said A right, it's a different ballgame.
Now we have to keep it in hand, and that's
what they did, and they get up the other end
and they score, and that's that's something you know that
the Crusaders used to do when yeah, you know, we're
top of the ACA and that whole odd position, and
they'd work their way up there and they would score.

Speaker 13 (17:00):
But now it's just.

Speaker 12 (17:01):
Frantic kick it for them. They run back at us.
It's just it's just so I can't understand the thinking
behind it.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
Thanks for kicking us off, Scott, I appreciate it.

Speaker 9 (17:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Look, I know the kicking has been a topic of
discussion and a lot of the online stuff I've read
this morning. Thank you for bringing it up as well. Yeah,
I think Courtier m yeah he I thought he had
a mixed bag of a game. Cortez, I think you
might find Camroy guards starting next week. Speaking of kicking,

(17:31):
why on Earth did England take Marcus Smith off? I
talked before about George Ford's unfortunate little cameo, but Marcus
Smith was the player of the game apart from Wallace
a Titi. He was England's best player, perfect from the tea,
and we gave him the opportunity to kick those goals

(17:53):
five penalies from five and he converted the try that
England scored. Why did they take him off? That was
in hindsight and even at the time, I remember thinking.

Speaker 9 (18:05):
What are they doing? Hi?

Speaker 10 (18:08):
John?

Speaker 13 (18:10):
Yes, this game. I've been watching and listening to rugby
since about nineteen fifty. But you know they study the
games and they don't they and see who they've got
to watch and all this sort of thing, and see
how they can sort of mark a player. Well, this
is the great thing about mackenzie. I mean you can't
you don't know what he's really going to do because

(18:33):
he just makes the openings as he goes. You couldn't
even ask him what he's going to do. But they
kept him off, of course, and what sort of annoys me?
I thought, our new coach. There's no reflection on him,
but he would have been the best provincial coach in
the world. But he certainly hasn't been with these all Blacks,
and I don't know whatever reason that is, but he

(18:55):
certainly loves the Crusader players and things just seem to
have changed.

Speaker 9 (19:02):
I mean, what was it.

Speaker 13 (19:06):
Penalties?

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Was it eleven?

Speaker 13 (19:09):
Eleven penalties? Absolutely incredible, just really incredible I don't know
where they've gone wrong. They sort of whether they need
another captain. I mean, the captain is supposed to be
growling at them and telling them, you know, to what's

(19:29):
getting all the penalties and as well as that, it
should be the management and the coaches. But we shouldn't
be just scraping and like this. I mean, I'm sure
the teams that we're going to be playing now they're
going to say, and I don't even know where the
referee came from, but we've got to do something about
the penalties.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yeah, angers, god's a referee from Australia.

Speaker 5 (19:53):
John.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
I agree that they gave way too many penalties. I'm
not sure your point about Scott robertson loving the Crusaders
holds water.

Speaker 9 (20:00):
Really.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
I look at the fifteen that he put out there
and I run my down the list to mighty Williams,
co Taylor, Scott Barrett. I think that's it as far
as the Crusaders are concerned. Will Jordan four four of
the fifteen.

Speaker 13 (20:15):
Well, I'm only saying I don't know whether he's got
the right captain. Something's got to be done about his penalties,
that's all I mean. I mean Normally a team that
scored trites can score tries and you've got a guy
that can kick the goal to go with it. It's

(20:35):
it's bloody terrible. I mean, you're on ten the hooks
all the way and you almost sort of think, you know,
somebody's against us. That's the way I look at it.
But you know, things have definitely changed since we've got
the new coach. And you know they play Island next,
don't they.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
They do play I Island next, John, Yeah, they do,
that's next week. In a six day turnaround. We did
win the game. We did win the game. I get
what you're saying, and I think you know, the All
Blacks have always said that they enjoy the scrutiny, the
fact that, you know, even a narrow wind can be
dissected like we're doing today. But they did win. They
found a way. Someone said they didn't find a way

(21:15):
with this text that I saw before, The All Blacks
didn't find a way. It came down to a kick
at the end of Either of those two kicks had
gone over, would have lost. That is factually correct. However,
I don't think those two kicks did go over. Did
they The drop goal from George Ford, he had about
four or five guys running at him. The All Blacks
found a way to put him off enough so that

(21:40):
he didn't land the droppy. Scott Robinson said after George
Ford never missed as drop goals. He mussed that one
the All Blacks did find a way to win the game,
and just because George Ford missed a couple of kicks
at the end doesn't dilute that point. Twelve twenty eight
oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty one spear line

(22:02):
there at the moment. If you want to jump aboard,
We're back with more after this on Weekend Sport.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
The Voice of Sport on your home of Sport Weekend
Sport with Jason Vine and Gg Gunner homes New Zealand's
most trusted home builder News Talks.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
That'd be twelve thirty one. Just on the whole crusaders
argument as well, that was proffered before. There weren't any
crusaders on the reserves Beans this morning either, So of
the twenty three players who took the field this morning
for the All Blacks, only four were crusaders. So I'm
not sure that the argument holds water at all. Steady
On says this text, we just turned England over in
their own backyard. How about a break for the guys

(22:36):
today and some congratulations Mike, how are you?

Speaker 14 (22:42):
Yeah? Good things funny? Hey, Yeah, I don't really follow
rugby that much, but I don't mind watching the old
All Blacks game, so I'm not really that qualified to comment.
But it's like what your previous call a couple of
callers back, John said, and I agree with him fully.
It's all about discipline and not giving away penalties and

(23:02):
not getting yellow cards if you really want to win,
So you know, from an amateur spectator, that's what I
can see. So sure, when they're training and all the
rest of it, they're trying to improve what they can
do well, but I think they need to try and
put more effort into what they shouldn't be doing on

(23:23):
the field. You know that that was a terrible last
three minutes of that game, and full credit to McKenzie
for clinching it, but yeah, it wasn't a hugely satisfying
when really if you ask me, yeah, I hear.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
You made and I think Scott Hansen without I'm not
sure what his exact words were around the penalties, but yeah,
the penalty count is a concern, especially when you're giving
away penalties and kickable positions against guys like Marcus Smith
who would just nail them. You know, like I say,
six from six from the kicking tea, five of those
were penalties. So five of the eleven penalties that New
Zealand gave away cost them points. So you're so right.

(24:01):
Discipline is a work on for this team.

Speaker 14 (24:05):
Absolutely, Not so much what you can do well. It's
try and try and train the team to do things
that they shouldn't be doing. Yeah, so that they're not
doing things that they shouldn't be doing, that's right. Yeah,
put more refidence that.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah, got your Mike, No, good point, well made, thanks mate,
appreciate your call, David, Hello.

Speaker 15 (24:27):
Yeah, get a piney hey mate, another really frustratingly inaccurate performance.
I thought, just and just to pick up on the
you know, Scott Hansen's comment just to you before saying,
this is a new group, new players, this is going
to take some time. I sort of came to call
that out because while it's the TT Inquarties aside, this
is an experienced team. You know, you run your right

(24:49):
across that back. They're a three four year all blacks,
and in the case of a lot of the players,
maybe more. And then you go to the full Pecks
and Barrett and Artie and Sam Kine. I mean, these
are these are players that have been around a long time.
I just don't buy the argument that this is a
new squad's got to take the time, because every other
nation is in the exact same position. Building out of

(25:09):
World Cups in England were listed with new players themselves.
South Africa were listed with new players as well. I
don't think that's quite right in our case, and it
doesn't sort of make up for the amount of mistakes
we seem to be making.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
I guess the difference between us in South Africa and
England as far as the newness is concerned. As the
coaching group, You're right, the players by and large the
same players. Yes, we've lost a lot of experience in
terms of players like white Lock, Retallic, Aaron Smith and others.
But it's a new coaching group which I guess hasn't

(25:44):
befallen the likes of South Africa or England since the
last World Cup. So they are I guess, still getting
used to what what Razor wants on them.

Speaker 15 (25:52):
But what exactly are we doing differently? I can't see
any change or dramatic shifts in our game. It's the
same forward backrunner off the Fords, out the back.

Speaker 11 (26:01):
To the first five.

Speaker 15 (26:02):
Body looks to just always be looking to protect first
and not run or on the line. And you know,
what are we what's different in our game then last year?
Because I can't sin seeing difference in the way we play.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
It's a good question. Is it's a good question. I
think you know coaches bring fresh ideas, But but you're
right if you if you don't look at Scott Robertson's
all blacks and say how while they're playing a dramatically
different style of Ian Fosters all blacks, you're right. And
maybe that comes back to what you were just saying, David,
and that it's it's largely the same group of players,
So to ask, you know, something completely different from the

(26:37):
same group of players would be perhaps not good coaching.

Speaker 6 (26:42):
Yeah, exactly. Guys like Jeordie and Rico, they've played a
lot of taste together now in the midfield, and I
don't think you're offering a whole lot on a tech.
There's other similar combinations within the Lusis and the four
picks and Wallace has been our best player and ironically
he's only through New Heathside.

Speaker 15 (27:00):
Just think some of these seasoned players are not really
stepping up out the course of the season. I think
the send of Year tour is a massive opportunity for
the team to gel but it just seems to be
that we lect the cohesion and a clinical team. Maybe
Ireland will really make us count and take it to us.
I thought them, with their own worst enemies, really give

(27:21):
me that game away.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
Yeah, I agree with that last bit, David. I agree
with that last bit. They had the opportunities to win
the game. They should have stopped Mark to Layer in
the corner. You know, elusive as he is, They should
have stopped him. They should have set themselves up better
for a drop goal for George Ford. It it felt
like they took ages to get him in the pocket
to where he needed to be. Miss penalty from George

(27:45):
Ford's but the whole substitution of George Ford was a
I don't want you put it all on one guy,
but really I think taking Marcus Smith off was a
huge era in hindsight by by England. He was controlling
the game, not just with his goalkicking, but as general play.
It's a huge part of it.

Speaker 16 (28:07):
Hello Tom, Hey Tom, Hey Jon, how are you?

Speaker 3 (28:11):
I'm great Tom, how are you mate?

Speaker 16 (28:13):
You go mate, I'm mister Dame mc kensey here.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
Ah, how are your boy? Well, your boy came on
and look, I mean I thought I was going to
run the shot clock down. Were you nervous at all?

Speaker 10 (28:25):
Oh?

Speaker 16 (28:25):
Yeah, yeah, I knew it was a big moment. Oh yeah,
as soon as I as soon as Tilli got the
try and knew was that was on? You know it
was it was the kick to win it and yeah,
hold my breath a bit and yeah, no to see
it go over was something else. It was brilliant kicking. Yeah, no,
some game, honestly. Discipline huge issue I think still, and

(28:47):
they needs happened there. I don't know what what can
be done about that. You know, obviously management and captaincy
and you know the various various things there. But I
don't know if it's a personnel issue, or if it's
a culture issue, or at the end of the day,
it can be a pressure issue. You know, these top
quality teams are playing London twicking and it's not going
to be easy, so to get the job done, good effort,

(29:08):
real happy. I think Mark Talia proven a lot of
what a doubt is wrong. I've always been a pretty
big fan, and I think he was. He was about
a form for a bit there. You can't deny that.
But he's played himself back into form and I think
you'd be you'd be silly to drop him.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
Now, what what do you when you said before about yeah,
what what was causing the the end discipline? I don't
think it's a player thing or a culture thing. I
think you're landed or not. I think it's a pressure thing.
I think that is that is for whatever reason, and
and and it's it's a funny thing to say because
these are highly experienced, elite rugby players who are used
to pressure cooker situations. But you know, you can't deny

(29:48):
the facts of the penalty count. They gave Way eleven.
That's I think that's the sixth or seventh Test in
a row. Now we've had a yellow card. We started
off the year really well, hardly had a yellow card
at all, and I think for the first three or
four Test matches we've had won every game. For the
last at least half dozen. So yeah, there's there's there's
something there. Whether it's the pressure of wanting to play
a certain way or the occasion, I don't know, but

(30:09):
I just wanted to ask you about Damien McKenzie came
off the beach. I've said all they had that big
run of Test matches up till the game in Sydney
against Australia in the ten Jersey came off the bench
in Wellington against Australia, started last week against Japan, off
the bench again this morning. What do you feel his
role to play is in this team at the moment.

Speaker 16 (30:31):
Yeah, Like we obviously can see Dmax's influence off the bench,
Like that's no doubt. You know, you'd be silly to
see he doesn't impact off the bench. And it's the
same with players like cam Boygard. We know he's a
good impact off the bench. But then the question is
do we want them out here for twenty or do
you want them matpre for eighty or you know sixty
f full likes you know, Roygun and whatnot. Obviously we've
seen you know, McKenzie towards the end of games potentially fade,

(30:53):
you know, And yeah, the whole film of closing out
game is definitely as big as work on It's I
guess there's for a lot of ten. It's a big thing.

Speaker 8 (31:00):
You know.

Speaker 16 (31:01):
They brought Ford on for England and he couldn't p
doubt them. You know, it's not easy and experience like
Ford couldn't do it. You know, one player can't obviously
do it. But I think I saw last night was
he had moments and I thought he ran the cutter
pretty nice and that little cupball to Jordan was nice.
But I just don't think Barrett can handle the rush
defense the same as mackenzie. You saw as soon as

(31:22):
mackenzie came on at the game changed like the outside
the would be get around to like to Freeman and
Wereboso and they the game changed like the game change
McKenzie came on, and the you saw on that try
where Talia scored. He holds the board two hands, freezers
forward up, tends it out to Jordan, just has enough
space to get around that that defender gives it Talia.

(31:43):
It's the one percenter's the smallest margins, there's not much
in it. He's just on the sideline there. So I
don't know, pretty impressed. I'd like to see dmat back
at ten against Ireland. I know Body picked up a
knock there, so we'll see what happens there.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah, it might have. You're right, he failed as hi
A on on field or or in game hi A.
So if that, I know, that doesn't necessarily mean you
have to have the twelve days stand down, but it might.
So it might that the hand might be might before.

Speaker 16 (32:11):
I heard he was but wobbly. After the game, they
tried to interview him on sky Sport and he was wobbly.

Speaker 3 (32:15):
So okay, well that doesn't good.

Speaker 16 (32:18):
It still happen there, but I don't know. Yeah, d
Making against Ireland will be interesting if he starts at ten.
The boat body ten wasn't wasn't useless. He had a
good game, I think. But it's just the thing of
I think one thing that he does now that he's
get used to. It's as simple as that that in
his prime body took on the line. He had that pace,
he had the he had the confidence and he was

(32:38):
the best in the wood. That he was the best
player in the world, no doubt, you can't deny it.
But in the modern day, with that russ defense, his
instinct is to kick it, you know, and you can't
deny that it's on. And you know, don't get me wrong.
In some situations the kick is what's needed, you know.
And I saw a few beautiful contestants out there from
body last night. But I saw some kicks of Sishu

(33:00):
were Boso he kicked it down there, but Boso the
first man. He'd run thirty forty meters. They didn't actually
score often, but they tied us up many times with
undigestible kicks. And I think at times yet back kind
didn't function.

Speaker 17 (33:14):
You know.

Speaker 16 (33:14):
You look at the Jordan toil, which is pretty nice,
but that was Jordan individual brilliance. The Satisi offload out
Celia for that try again. It's it's all individual brilliant.
It's not back kind play, it's not batkind move. I
think we are better with McKenzie out there, but each
of their own.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Each to their own in deeds, all about opinions. Good
to chat, Tom, call back again, so mate chet Piney,
all right, might take it easy. Oh eight hundred eighty
ten eighty is our number. We better get a breakaway.
There is one spear line there, but it'll be filling
out pretty quickly. If the last hours. Anything to go
by back in a second Weekend Sport The Big.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Issues on and after Fields Call eight hundred eighty ten
eighty Weekend Sport with Jason Fain and GJ. Gunder Homes,
New Zealand's first trusted home builder News Talk.

Speaker 4 (34:02):
Baby rightmack down the blind again? What a setti's popped up?
There gets the.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
Past opening try of the game for the All Blacks
back to the lines fourteen to one Halloween. Thanks for holding.

Speaker 5 (34:19):
Hi, jasere you go today.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Very good, make very good.

Speaker 5 (34:22):
Listen first and foremost, I think Steve Borthook and his
coaching team handed that game to the or Blacks. And
congratulations for the Blacks winning the game, But for to
take Marcus Smith off was a cardinal sin at the
end of the day. I mean, what a great match.
It was a great match too.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
I simply don't understand why they took.

Speaker 5 (34:45):
Him off exactly. I heard your earlier comment. He was
controlling the game, just out of this world, and he was,
you know, with all those penalties and whatever you eat,
but he was controlling the game. And when he went off,
the game actually turned and you can I didn't watch it.

(35:08):
I listened on the wireless and all that sort of thing,
but you could just hear it, you know, those scrumping
on these I think the Orbles got three in a
row or some such thing. And when Borthick and his
team talked that took him off. The game just changed
and the Orbles just got over it. Not saying anything

(35:28):
about you know, George North or anything like that, but
you know here, the game changed when Marcus Smith went off.
And I couldn't, for the life of me understand why
they did that. They must have known that this man
was controlling that game, and I have no doubt that

(35:51):
Heady stayed on the pedant, England would have won that match.
But however, that's that was their choice. And the Ulbecs
came back and indeed did.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
The deed and they they did, and I'm sure they
were reviewing. Like I again, I I haven't heard that
he was injured. I need to listen back to the
post match pressure. I've listened back to the All Blacks one,
not the England one. Maybe there was an explanation and
there as to why they did it. Hindsight, it's always
twenty twenty, isn't it. Look if George Ford's dropped that
goal at the end or kicked that penalty that was
shortly before, and then we're having a different conversation. But

(36:23):
in hindsight it seems a very odd decision and a
pivotal moment in the game. Ian, thanks for your call,
rh Willy, Hello.

Speaker 18 (36:32):
Oh Cia, Yeah, I watch watched a game cut off,
so I had to listen to it, so I was worse.
Reminded me of the World Cup in twenty fifteen the

(36:52):
South Africa and all blacks. Yeah, pretty hard to watch, No,
just of this is them a belt pushing.

Speaker 9 (37:02):
Kenzy.

Speaker 18 (37:03):
I've never really ever been a fan of mckenzy, reason
being as I think we we saw his quality against
Japan last week. He's he's quite he's weak on defensing.
He may have the most, he may have a great
winning game, but he's flowing up to But if you

(37:24):
can't defend, then you shouldn't be. We're in normal jumper
and like he sees a small fellow. We saw Ford. Okay,
he's ad who's probably got fifty kges heavier than them,
but and he he was also who ran over him
last week. And he's also another situation where a guy
just went through and he didn't even look like he
wanted to get a bar of it.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
I think I think he's got I think he's got
quite a bit of ticker, right. I think I just
think he's not the biggest guy, so sometimes he is
going to be out muscled, but he's got a lot of.

Speaker 11 (37:56):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 18 (37:59):
You ask any you ask any ten nation, did they
do they see mckins and that they'll just say no,
shot away in your boden vera. He's into a slow
But when you're playing rush defense, you can't what are
you supposed to do?

Speaker 3 (38:17):
I guess there's two ye, I guess there's there's a
there's there's two or three ways. One you can you
can kick, which is what body decides to or not
all the time. But he employs that a lot. You
can try and shift it wide a quicker or you
can use your quick feet. And I think of the
two of the two, Damien McKenzie is more likely of
the two to surprise a rush defense by taking them on.

Speaker 9 (38:39):
Well.

Speaker 18 (38:39):
I tend to disagree, but I think the defenses are
so good now that they're not surprised that the defense
line is so good now. And because they're the employing
and this isn't the poce of the ability, but the
employing ruck the league defense defense specialist. Because it's one
on one and when you're rushing. I think the decision

(39:00):
needs to be that the inspect a bit. But Damien McKenzie,
like you, you tell me how many games in a
row you've said, Oh my gosh, Damien mckenjy just just
top control of their game.

Speaker 12 (39:14):
Come the two games in a row.

Speaker 18 (39:17):
You know we are but weak on first fives, but
we expect a lot more. For the last time he
controlled like control.

Speaker 9 (39:25):
Game up the game.

Speaker 18 (39:27):
And we've been blessed with some pretty fine spi Fish
Liner then Karde and when we tend to compare, but
we we we we we come from Altor. We have
an expectation on anyone that we the black Jumper. They're
not miss a tackle, regardless of who the country is.
If you're missing tackles against Japan. When you come to Highland,

(39:48):
till It says they want to see David McKenzie play
for Ireland, play against Ireland. Man, they're gonna have a
field day. That Ireland are a good team and we're
we're very we had to be our best to beat
them at the World Cup. Damien McKenzie against the Island Island.
I hope he that he does really well. But then

(40:08):
that's yeah, Dylan and bar are really really really good
teams for prevalent be the best team. They never won
the World couple. There's priven in the best team for
the last or best part of a decade because they've
worked out game, mate, and they beat us, and Dan
Carter was Saint burst fight. You know it's I don't know,

(40:29):
we need to start bringing the next tears through.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yeah right, well I do have to go, mate, I've
got to move. But thanks for your points well made.
I'll just answer a couple of your points. Damian McKenzie.
I've seen control game after game after game after game
for the Chiefs. I think he's been an exceptional super
rugby first five. I know you're talking about the All Blacks,
and I don't think Dan Carter was playing when Ireland

(40:53):
beat us in twenty sixteen for the first time. I
think he'd gone by then, hadn't he twenty fifteen was
it for him? Anyway? They're just small points, but just
want to make sure that we're fact checking everything here.
Seven to one new Stalk SEB.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Analyzing every view from every angle in the sporting world.
Weekends for It with Jason Vine call Us Talk Senby.

Speaker 4 (41:14):
Slow to come back for right, going down the left
hand line, drop back and Bill.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Welcome another test try for Will Jordan. He is going
to beat Doug Hallett's record, isn't he. I know we've
said that about other players in the past, but Will
Jordan is a try scoring machine. He is going to
get to forty nine and go beyond. After one o'clock
we're going to flick our attention across the football. We
will come back to the rugby. We couldn't get everybody
on the air. Don't fear we will do that again.

(41:41):
But after one o'clock. Auckland FC's goal scoring hero Jake Brimmer.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
It's the only place to discuss the biggest sports issues
on and after field.

Speaker 9 (41:52):
It's all on Wee James Ford with.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Jason Vain on your home of sport US Talk SIB
one O seven.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
Welcome into the show. Jake Brimmer in just a second
doubles goal scorer yesterday in the first ever professional football
derby in New Zealand. Magnificent occasion at Sky Stadium twenty
six thousand plus turning up good game too. Thought it
was going to be nil all for a long time
until Jake Brimmer scored goals in the eighty ninth and

(42:25):
ninety sixth minutes. He is standing by for a chat
updating you on some live sporting just to seek as well.
We'll go back to the rugby too. Thank you for
all your text messages. There are so many, so many,
So yeah, we'll open the lines again on the rugby.
If we get the opportunity we're going to we're gonna
try and squeeze everything in. This is where we need

(42:46):
multiple channels. Maybe we could do something in one speaker
and something in the other speaker. Anyway, Rugby league as well,
we've got to cover that off Tonga. What a game
that was beating the Kiwis last night twenty five to
twenty four at Mount Smart. Seems like they were thrilling
games with big crowds everywhere you looked. Fort Trophy Cricket
aucklam on the toss and elected to bowl first against

(43:07):
Northern in Hamilton. Northern one ninety seven for six and
the thirty eight David and Langi order Canterbury have been
centered about by Central one forty six for five in
the thirty seventh and in dneda Otago won the toss
they decided to bat first. They're one eighty six for
five in the thirty sixth over so all kind of similar, really,
aren't they kind of? They're or thereabouts scores for those

(43:30):
batting first, and each of these are each of these games.
Email from Leon just before we get to Jake Brima, Jason,
I'm somewhat dismayed by a lot of the rhetoric in
terms of the All Blacks performance. As armchair experts, we're
good at lamb basting athletes when the final result doesn't
go our way, and unbelievably critical even when we do win.
Elite sport is more often than not about mere centimeters

(43:52):
or the call of a match official. Of course, the
abs are far from perfect, but let's give them the
flowers for now and celebrated win. As fans, we tend
to overanalyze teams and individuals. We're very good at that.
Let's keep things in perspective and give Razor and his
coaches time to implement their low long term game plan.
If by twenty twenty six, the squad is not performing
up to our lofty expectations, then we should be genuinely worried.

(44:15):
The twenty twenty seven Rugby World Cup is still the
all important goal. We just need to be patient. Thank you, Leon,
I appreciate that very much. Nine past one bragging rights
for Auckland FC. Yesterday at sky Stadium. They beat Wellington
Phoenix two nil in the first ever New Zealand A
League men's derby.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Hod's give it away by.

Speaker 9 (44:35):
All the way yum got a mistake by Josh HOLLAWAYUV
and Jake Brummer Kansas.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Derby to lights for Auckland FC with a sigar and
hot pursuit Loomy Toomy's in the area.

Speaker 9 (44:54):
And Aakland FC true Jake Brumber twenty two Honus bench
two goals in the betch of.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
Wellington Phoenix's nets end up port. I'm gonna celebrate long
into the Wellington night. Yeah, I get the feeling they
did the port the Auckland FC traveling fans. I think
they enjoyed themselves in Wellington's CBD and surrounds last night,
as I'm sure the Auckland FC players did too, probably

(45:25):
a little bit more civilized and a bit more restrained
than their fans. Vice captain Jake Brimmer off the bench
to score goals late eighty nine and ninety six minutes.
He's with us here on weekend Sport. Jake, thanks for
joining us. How does that result feel the day after?

Speaker 7 (45:39):
Special mate? Honestly, I can't put into words how good
it felt. You know what I mean?

Speaker 19 (45:43):
Like you talk about a dearby, but you also look
at the last two games as well.

Speaker 7 (45:47):
You know, we're three from three.

Speaker 19 (45:48):
Being a U club, you know everyone doubted is and
we we had a plan coming into into this season
and we've executed that so far, and you know, hopefully
we continue to work hard and the results kept coming.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
I want to talk about yesterday specifically in a moment,
but you alluded to it there. Three wins from your
first three games. That's the best ever started by an
A League club in the first three matches of their existence.
What have been the major reasons for the side's excellent
start of the season just collectively?

Speaker 7 (46:16):
I know the gaffer and you know everyone at the club.

Speaker 19 (46:18):
We've we've got a motto that we go together and
that's with everything, and you know that I think we've
got a really good bunch of foreigners, a bunch of Kiwis,
and a good mix of players that we will get along.
And you know, we all believe that we can we
can achieve something this year, and I think that that
goes a long way.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
You came on yesterday with twenty to go. What we
are seeing from the sideline before you entered the action.

Speaker 19 (46:43):
Luck obviously, you sit there and you watch, you watch
the game and you look at how everyone's defending, how
to keep his playing, And to be honest with you,
I sort of noticed that he took a bit too
long on the ball and he sort of, you know,
second guessed what he was going to do a lot
of the time. And if you watch the goal back
the first one, I actually anticipated that he'd cut back inside.

(47:03):
And you know, it's a game I have to take
as well, do you mean fat ball goes through, they
probably go up and counter attack us. So it was
a chance that I took, and you know, luckily enough
it paid off. And yeah, it was just unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
That's so interesting that you'd noticed that from watching. I mean,
I guess I don't know this to be true, but
I'm sure some subs just sit there and just wait
to get the call without really taking hek of a
lot of notice what's going on, but you'd noticed that
from Phoenix goalkeeper Josh all Away, immy that it might
be something you could capitalize on, Oh.

Speaker 7 (47:33):
Without a doubt.

Speaker 8 (47:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 19 (47:34):
Look, I obviously was disappointed not to start the game,
but that was the decision the GAF had made. So
for me, it's you know, there's always a chance to
learn in the game and to learn when you're watching
as well.

Speaker 11 (47:47):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 19 (47:47):
You want to make a difference when you come off
the bench so that you put yourself in a position
to start every week. And you know I've had I've
had my ups and downs in pre season with injuries
and stuff like that. But I think, you know, it
was special to get those two goals, and you know
howefully my my confidential builds now and I can continue
to provide those things in a lot more games to come.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
Yeah, the second goal with time just about up the
icing on the cake. I guess how nice they to
see that one rolling as well.

Speaker 19 (48:13):
I was just I was happy for Lewis to me,
I know he's been through a light as well with football,
and you know, football has its ups and downs, but
he's sort of one young boy that's been you know
at Auckland that's impressed me the way he plays and
the way he conducts himself to football and the professionalism
he has. And for him to come on and make

(48:35):
an impact that he did was I was very happy
for him. So he put it on a play for
me and look, I'm not I don't score many tap ins.

Speaker 12 (48:41):
So I can't complain.

Speaker 7 (48:43):
I cannot complain with that one.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
Oh they all count for one, mate, they all count
for one. Three clean sheets as well, so you know,
down the other end you remain unbreached. How pleasing is
it to have those three clean sheets as well?

Speaker 19 (48:56):
Like you say, the back for ap You know, we
talk about the defenders, but I think as a team,
you know, you defend from the front, and I think
it's in order to win championshi in this league, you
need a good you need a you need clean sheets.

Speaker 7 (49:10):
And you know we've done that in the past three games.

Speaker 19 (49:12):
We don't look like conceding and we're a bunch that
are willing to work for each other and you know
that can, like you said, think that can win your trophies.

Speaker 7 (49:20):
So yeah, we're we're doing very well back there and
you know, may we continue.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Yeah, it was always going to be a challenging day
for Alex Paulson for reasons we all understand. Not not
as fold of course, but that's what what football can
throw up sometimes. How much extra support, if any, did
you have to wrap around Alex Paulson this week?

Speaker 7 (49:37):
One hundred percent?

Speaker 19 (49:38):
You know, like I said, we go together with everything
you do. And you know, AP's he's a great kid.
He's he's brilliant and like you say, the gaffer had
words with this about it, and not that he needs it,
but he knew that we had his back at any
moment and in time of that game. And you know,
credit to him, to the person he hears is harmless

(49:58):
and he's such a good kid.

Speaker 7 (50:00):
So it was an extra special one for us to
win against his whole team.

Speaker 14 (50:03):
Put it that way.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Absolutely, the occasion over twenty stous in there yesterday. You've
played in some big Melbourne derbies, Jake. I know this
one's only just started, but how big do you think
it might get?

Speaker 19 (50:14):
Well, put it this way, if it was twenty six
thousand for the first ever derby, it's only going to
get bigger and you can see that rivalry already. And
you know, I mentioned it to Sky yesterday, Sky Sports
that is, and I'd said that give it two three years.
I'm telling you now this it will be, if not
the biggest derby in the league. And that's exciting, you know,
for Kiwei football. There's a lot of talent that I've

(50:34):
noticed in Auckland.

Speaker 7 (50:35):
You know, and for the game and for the A
league as well. I think it's just it's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
You've got the buy now and then the international break,
so you haven't got a game for what two or
three weeks? Is that a good thing? A bad thing?
When you're on a roll? Would you rather just keep
on playing?

Speaker 7 (50:51):
Look, if it was my choice, I'd prefer to keep playing.
But I guess it's a chance for a few boys
to freshen up.

Speaker 19 (50:57):
I know we've got a few internal games against each other,
which is good, you know, for the likes of myself
as well. Like I said, I was injured majority of
pre season and sort of came back. I was sick
last week. So for me, it's an opportunity now to
to place and get some more minutes and you know,
hopefully make that impact from the start of the game
rather than coming off the bench.

Speaker 7 (51:15):
So it's an opportunity.

Speaker 19 (51:17):
But yeah, if you're asking me what I prefer, I
prefer to continue this run because you know, the vibes
are good right now and we just want to continue playing.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
How are you and your family enjoying living in Auckland.

Speaker 19 (51:27):
Yeah, I'm with my partner, Amelia her name is we're
loving it. My kids actually are with their mother back
in Melbourne, which is quite difficult. It as a sacrifice,
you know, my partner and I had to make in order,
you know, to to continue my footballing career. I believe
that Auckland's an opportunity for me to take it to
the next step. It was a chance to start fresh

(51:48):
and you don't get back to where I know I
can get to, and it's been difficult without them, but
I know that in the long run that it's it's
a chance I'm willing to take and a sacrifice I'm
willing to do. And you know, the kids come around
every once a month for five days, which is lovely
and yeah, it's it's my partner and I love Auckland,

(52:09):
so I can't can't complain.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
Well, you just have to keep on scoring goals. You've
you've got your trademark celebration for your daughter, Hazel. She
got to see it twice yesterday twice, Jake.

Speaker 19 (52:20):
I'm hoping she watched the game. I'm hoping that she
was in Melbourne watching the game somewhere, because yeah, it
was like I said, you know, you sacrifice so much
in football and the things you have to to do
in order to be successful and also you know, for
your own footballing career, and you know, I was hoping
she was watching so that you know she's seen it
and she would have loved it.

Speaker 7 (52:40):
So I'm just praying she was.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Absolutely And just to Finnish, I mean you must be
dining out on the fact that an Australian has decided
the first ever New Zealand derby.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Mate.

Speaker 7 (52:49):
Look, I'm not complaining.

Speaker 13 (52:51):
Like you say.

Speaker 19 (52:52):
I've had a rough couple last year year in a
bit with football. You know, I probably haven't executed what
I know I can, and you know yesterday was the
tipping point for me and I just yeah, I know
my confidence now will be up and like you say,
to be the first ever player in a Kiwi derby
to do that can't complain.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Congrats Jake, safe travels mate, good to yet to.

Speaker 7 (53:15):
You legend, thanks mate, rate no, thank you Jake.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Jake Bremmer two goals yesterday, vice captain of the side,
off the bench and one of the key figures in
the game. Be came to hear your thoughts on the derby,
especially if you were there, if you went along, or
if you watched it, anything that stood out for you, Oh,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. I thought it was
a terrific occasion, that the occasion was superb. Plenty of

(53:39):
hype around about this game and the lead up to it,
and I think it delivered. There's a replay actually up
on the TV in the studio here right now, and
just looking at the crowd over twenty six thousand. That
is a record for the Phoenix for a regular season game.
A huge number of traveling fans as well, and they

(53:59):
were awesome. They were They really added to the color
of the of the occasion. It was a shame. It
was a shame that one of the key moments in
the game was a mistake rather than a moment of brilliance.
An error by Wellington Phoenix goalkeeper Josh Oloway Emmy.

Speaker 14 (54:19):
Now.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
Errors by goalkeepers, of course, are magnified. If a midfielder
or a striker out on any other part of the
field misplaces a pass, it normally doesn't matter, But when
a goalkeeper does it, the consequences are often far more severe,
and that proved to be the case yesterday. A misplaced
pass in your own penalty area is always going to

(54:41):
be fraught with danger. But if your plan is to
play out from the back to try and draw players
in and create space for counterattacks to begin, you can't
just bin it the first time it doesn't go right.
You can't just say, okay, well we gave that a go.
It didn't work. We've given up a goal. Now we'll
try something else. The Phoenix scored several goals last season
using that method. Do not expect them to change it

(55:04):
because of one mistake. They're going to keep playing out
from the back. I can also tell you that the
man in question, Phoenix goalkeeper josh oliway Yemi, stayed out
after the game and signed every single autograph and posed
for every single selfie for the fans who line up
after every game to meet the players. He could easily

(55:27):
have gone and under the stands and hid. I would
have I'd be getting out of there as quick as
I could. He didn't do that. I've seen plenty of
players go straight under the stands, having made far less
high profile mistakes than that, but not josh Olawa Jemy.
He stayed out there, shook hands with the fans, the selfies,

(55:48):
had chats. When really insight, he must have been mortified
with his part in Auckland FC's goal, the first one anyway,
so I thought it was really classy what he did. Superbocation.
Is to say, more people there yesterday at the same
venue than the all black Argentina test. I never thought
I would see the day that two New Zealand football

(56:10):
sides would to correct the crowd like that. Keevy Darby's
going to be appointment viewing. Oh eight one hundred and
eighty ten eighty. What did you think of it, Derek?

Speaker 9 (56:20):
Oh?

Speaker 10 (56:20):
Look, I loved it. I loved it. I was around
with my brother watching it, and we're both born in Auckland,
so and I noticed as soon as Auckland scored any
we're crazy. And then I enjoyed the victory and I
was sort of, yeah, obviously, I love the Phoenix for
a long time and now of course, but born in Auckland, obviously,
you know I have to give I have to give

(56:40):
some portcu walklers and plus also Mount Smart. It's not
a million miles from Botany, so it's easy for me
to get to the ground and watch the game. But
as far as goalkeepers go, take the var out of it,
because that's the biggest bloke in the game for me
all around the world at the moment. But the other
thing for me that really gets up my nose in
the modern game, and maybe people to say I'm out
of step and out of time, but when I see

(57:02):
a goalkeeper, I want a goalkeeper to take crosses. I
wanted to be brilliant when it comes the shot stopping
and one old one is and coming out and being intimidating.
You know, it really gets up my nose when I
see a back four or a back three these days
turn around and say, well we're in a little bit
of trouble, we're a little bit of pressure.

Speaker 13 (57:19):
We'll tell you what we'll do.

Speaker 10 (57:19):
We'll push it back to the goalkeeper and he can
beat two players and had a fifty yard pass and
sput the defense. I mean that's not really for me
what the goalkeeper's role is.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Now.

Speaker 10 (57:28):
I understand that the Phoenix goalkeeper is playing to instruction
and when he gets into the changing room, I tell you,
I will say, you know, you keep on doing what
you're doing, because that's why we've brought you in here.
But when I hear a manager or a head coach
come out in the media and so I've just signed
a new goalkeeper and he's brilliant on the ground. Oh yeah,
he's great on the ground. He can control it like

(57:48):
an outfield player. As part of being the modern goalkeeper
these days, I feel like screaming over the over the outside.
I really it drives me insane.

Speaker 8 (57:57):
You know.

Speaker 10 (57:57):
A couple of times I saw this Phoenix goalkeeper in
the game against Western and then the game in Perth,
and then yesterday I was thinking to myself, every time
they have a cornation, you put it right under the
bar and let him try and take across, because he
looks like a vampire at times when it comes to crossing.
He really does. And yesterday he took one in the
second half and yeah, the wind was nasty and swirling,

(58:20):
but he dropped it and he was luckily he fell
right on the top of it, and I thought to myself,
they should be doing that the whole time. Whereas you
look at Poulton, of course, who was the top class goalkeepers,
really proven in this level, he took us a lot easier.
But I've just noticed the FeNiS goalkeeper is a little
bit wek. Yes, he is good on the ground, but
when he comes to playing around at the back, for me,

(58:41):
that's not a goalkeeper's position. Two minutes out from the
end of the game, or even two minutes out from
the end of the first half, now you just you
send it, you send it forward. I mean, I don't
understand why managers don't sign central defenders who are comfortable
on the ball, that John Stone down and Hanson type
player who can just bring the ball down and start
playing around, not giving back to the goalkeeper. Because the

(59:02):
other thing behind a goalkeeper is a net. It's not
a safety net, it's the goal and what's the knee
one kneel down.

Speaker 17 (59:08):
So that.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
I want just just on that though I don't think
the two things are mutually exclusive. Just because you're good
with your feet or not good with your feet, doesn't
mean you're good with your hands or not good with
your hands. You can be both and Paulson's a good example, Derek.
As you know, and I know that you know. The
philosophy behind having a keeper become part of the passing
movement out from the back. It's to create, you know,
an overload. You know, if you pass through an attacking press,

(59:34):
then you you, you know, you open up space in
the middle of the park with which you can you know,
maybe mount a counter attack, which the Phoenix did effectively
a lot last season. So look, I know you understand it,
but I also a big part of me also loves
the loves the old school butt of it. Your keepers
there just to keep the ball out of the net
using any part of his body you can, So you
should be able to do that first before anything else.

Speaker 10 (59:56):
Yeah, And I also like the way these two clubs
of the culture is already out there, isn't it. Phoenix
with their development and the position of football, some people
say they passed the ball to death, but like the
way they play and yesterday fit short periods of time,
well long periods at times, they did pass the ball
absolutely brilliantly. And Alex Rufer, who obviously was injured leading
into the game, determined to play. I thought he had

(01:00:17):
a blinder. I thought he had a blinder of a match.
And he's a heart and soul of that team as well.
And he made a cross in the I think it
was in the second half where they really should have
put it away. There should have been wonder up but
somehow he contrived to miss a hitter right out in
front of this Japanese guy. But then you have a
look at Auckland, who don't normally dominate possession, well they
haven't in the games we've seen so far. They really

(01:00:37):
are much more direct, much more direct. And there you
look at three of the back four, the Japanese captain
Hall from they signed from the Maritors, and Pinico I've
seen before. They are very very big, they're very very strong,
very very powerful, and they've got their Belgian midfield up
six in the front. They are very difficult to break down.

(01:00:58):
But when they break, they break really quickly. But if
I was going to play against Auckland tomorrow, and this
is I guess this is a compliment rather than a criticism.
If I was planning against him tomorrow, I'd say in
the last third of the field or they rely a
lot on Liam Gillian. He is the creator spark. He
can score goals. He's got a great touch, he's very

(01:01:18):
two footed, hard to work out with his left footed
and right footed. I think he's going to be a
goal threat and the season goes on. But take you
take away his impact, which I thought Tim Payne would
try and do yesterday, although Tim Painn said him be
more interested in getting forward down the right hand side,
but they didn't do that, and I think you can't
leave me the danger man. I think he's getting better
with every game.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
I think they did early. I think they did early. Derek, Yeah,
I think they did early. I didn't. I remember thinking
as I was watching the game that Gillian wasn't as
involved early in the game as he grew into the
game and became more of a three. But I think well,
from my eyes anyway, I think in the first twenty
twenty five minutes he wasn't as effective as he he
has been in the in the earlier games. Hey, Derek,

(01:01:59):
got to move make got a bunch of call stacking up,
but always good chatting football with you. Thanks for thanks
for calling. In one twenty seven, We'll get a breakaway
come back eight hundred and eighty ten eighty to talk
some football the Derby, particularly if you were there or
anything you picked up on from watching on television. Eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty Back in a.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Second one Crutch hold Ngage Weekend Sports with Jason Tame
and GJ. Gunnerholmes, New Zealand's I Was Trusted home Builder
News talks a baby.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
Bang on one p thirty talking football at the moment,
Andy says, not producer Andy, but Andy on text acknowledged
it was an error by the goalkeeper. But with a
pressing attack and instructions from the coach to play out
at all costs, this will happen from time to time,
Andy bang On, And it did last year to Alex Paulson.
I remember Alex Paulson giving up a goal, not in
exactly the same circumstances as Josh all Away yem me yesterday,

(01:02:50):
but an errands passed from the back that was picked
up by an opposition player and they went on to
score a goal. It happens. It's collateral damage. But like
I said before, it's not going to stop them playing
this way because they believe the reward far outweigh the
risk and the potential damage. They'll continue to play this way.

(01:03:10):
There's nothing shorer, nothing shorer about a hammer. Hello, hey, pony,
how are you good Man?

Speaker 20 (01:03:17):
Good dodged the bullet this morning, so help. But that
was good after yeah, the derby, But what a.

Speaker 11 (01:03:24):
Day out of the Caps and the twenty six k
roaring the banter.

Speaker 21 (01:03:31):
You know, what's the most we probably had in that
away based thirty Melbourne heart outs over there over the
last fifteen years.

Speaker 20 (01:03:38):
But that was a mean day and yeah, just ruined
by the result.

Speaker 11 (01:03:44):
To be fair, the I don't know they I felt
like they deserved the win. But you know it's footy, right,
you can hang in there.

Speaker 20 (01:03:55):
Our Japanese strikers up and watched much a league so
for this season.

Speaker 11 (01:03:58):
Throw a pony, but is it a shiggy man? How
how did that miss that header?

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
Yeah? I know, yeah, I think if the end this
time again, he wouldn't it because it's it's kind of
at shinn height and I think he's just kind of
got caught in two minds. What am I doing here?
And he and he decides to head the ball and
he heads it down into the turf and up over
the bar. So it was Yeah, they say, you should
hit the ball down, but we're just going to bounce

(01:04:23):
something over the bar. I think if they had this
time again, he'd probably just swing and ford out.

Speaker 20 (01:04:27):
But yeah, they were sort of worth their was on.

Speaker 21 (01:04:30):
They look pretty pretty handy, I think where obviously, you know,
we have these guys who go, well, I've been old.

Speaker 20 (01:04:36):
And obviously Poulson last year and I feel I were
lacking a bit of creativity.

Speaker 11 (01:04:42):
We sort of got bust a bit in that game
for most of it. Yeah, I'll be older.

Speaker 15 (01:04:47):
You know, the game sped up when he got the ball.

Speaker 21 (01:04:50):
Last season and crazy was he here's a busy fella too,
But yeah, or Costa was, you know, because.

Speaker 13 (01:04:57):
They've got big ports too at the back all over
the park.

Speaker 11 (01:05:00):
Actually, so I don't know.

Speaker 20 (01:05:02):
I hope that I won it in the first season on.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
Be annoying for us as well, it's for sure. Look,
I think they've man have started well, haven't they.

Speaker 9 (01:05:12):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
And the thing about the A League that history tells
us as momentum as a thing in this league. You know,
if you look three from three, you can't do much
better than that. Look, they'll go through peaks and troughs.
Every team, well, and I think it's only it's only
round three, so I don't think Phoenix fan shill worry either.
But no, I think if you look at that game
yesterday and try and be object objective, which we should,

(01:05:33):
I think Auckland probably feel like they deserve to win
the game.

Speaker 6 (01:05:36):
Yeah, I agree, Bra.

Speaker 20 (01:05:38):
Anyways, early season.

Speaker 5 (01:05:39):
Come on you next, Come on you next.

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
It's only November. A Padahama, we got lots of summer
days ahead. Thanks for calling him, mate, I was at
the game, says this text. Great game by Auckland. The
Phoenix played defensive end and work for them. Apart from
the goals that Jake Brimmer scored. You know, I'm just
trying to remember some real clear cut chances for either

(01:06:03):
side actually, and there were some. And the one that
a Padahammagist reference there was probably the most obvious. Alex Ruffer,
who wasn't even supposed to play but did failed to
a past the fitness test and played his one hundred
and fiftieth game puts this crossing and yeah, hideki Ashiga,
the new Japanese striker, went to head the ball instead

(01:06:23):
of kind of volleying it perhaps, and headed it down,
bounced off the turf and up over the bar. That
was probably the best opportunity for the Phoenix Auckland f C.
He had a couple of others all away. Emmy made
a couple of good saves. Yeah, I go back to
the occasion, though, I keep going back to the occasion
twenty six thousand. The next time these two teams play

(01:06:45):
each other is actually not that far away. It's on
the seventh of December, and it's back up in Auckland.
As I understand that tickets are pretty much or they're
selling very quickly already. I don't think. I'm pretty sure
it's not sold out yet, but that will be another
belting occasion.

Speaker 9 (01:07:06):
We know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
In the opening game for Auckland FC, they sold it out,
didn't they. They may well sell out that derby as well.
I've got a couple more games before that. But on Saturday,
the seventh of December, it's a derby two point zero,
shall we call it? When these two teams meet again,
but this time on Auckland's home ground. If they keep

(01:07:28):
playing the way they are, they could well still be
unbeaten through the next there's no game for them next week.
They've got to buy then the international break, so I've
only got I think they've only got two more games
before they play the Phoenix again. But of a quirk
of the draw. Can I just go back to the
rugby very quickly, just before we get to James mconey.
One thing I meant to mention last hour, and I

(01:07:50):
discussed it briefly with Scott Hansen, is this deliberate knock
on rule. It has to be tidied up. I'm talking
about Caleb Clark deliberately or being adjudged to have deliberately
not the ball on. I'm not sure if you remember
the incident Boden Barrett sprinted away. It was early in

(01:08:10):
the second half. Sprinted Away scored a try and you
know we all started to celebrate, but then it was
called back because Caleb Clark had deliberately knocked the ball on. Now,
if you haven't had a look at this, search it up.
I'm sure we'll be able to find it if you
want to. Caleb Clark's gone to make a tackle, his
eyes are on the ball carrier, and when the ballcarrier

(01:08:31):
shuffles it on to his outside, it hits Caleb Clark
on the hand. Yes, it's a knock on, but that's
all it is. It should not be a penalty. Caleb
Clark is not deliberately knocking that ball on. Thankfully it
was only a penalty because you've seen guys go to
the bin for that. But that rule, it still mystifies

(01:08:51):
me as to why something like that, which is instinctive
more than anything, can result in a penalty. Anyway, maybe
it's the discussion for another day. Thankfully it didn't affect
the result. But yeah, I just at the time, I
just remember thinking Caleb Clark has not done anything deliberately

(01:09:14):
there anyway. Twenty three Away from Away from two, just
updating you on our our live cricket going on around
the place. Northern two twenty eight for eight through forty
four of fifty overs against Auckland at Seddon Park, Canterbury
batting first against Central starting to run in some treacle
at Rungiorna there one seventy three for seven and Otago

(01:09:37):
two twenty eight for seven, oh by the way, Canterbury
through forty three of us and in the forty fourth over.
Otago two twenty eight for seven batting first against Wellington.
That's at University of Otago Oval in Dunedin. When we
come back a regular part of our Sundays. James mcconey,
he's with us right after this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
You'd be the TMO have your say on eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty Weekend Sports with Jason Paine and GJ. Guvnerholmes,
New Zealand's most trusted home builder news Dogs.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
There'd be nineteen to two quick email from Glenn. First off,
the derby. Fantastic game, intense, hard fort, lacking real quality
and a shame it was decided by a howler from
the keeper. The second goal just icing on the cake
for Auckland, not a reflection of what should have been
a draw, although for my money Auckland were the more
organized side then the rugby, says Glenn. First game i've
watched since the World Cup final. I don't really do rugby.

(01:10:26):
That was a great game, best team won and but
for real discipline and some bad hands would have been more.
England didn't really deserve to nicket with a drop goal
at the end. Thank you, Glenn. Just before we get
to James mccony, Glenn another Glenn on Texas, you should
put up a couple of tickets for the game on
December the seventh. I would if I had them, Glenn,
I would if I had them. I get the feeling

(01:10:46):
they'll be they'll be fairly hard to come by. Hello
James mcony.

Speaker 11 (01:10:51):
Hello Jason Pine. Well a day for you yesterday, the
drama of the derby and what a game.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
Yeah, it was. It was quite the occasion. The weather
turned it on Wellington. It was a bit ropey in
the morning, but yeah, by the time it kicked out,
the weather was fantastic. Twenty six thousand, there James, heaps
of Auckland FC fans making a lot of noise down
at the northern end. Great occasion for the game here.

Speaker 11 (01:11:16):
Do you know what I think that's I feel like
that's the closest I've ever seen to a New Zealand
game that felt like an FA Cup, you know, an
FA Cup final semi final. It just had the pageantry,
the noise, just the tension, the intensity of the tackles
and look, I know it's never going to match the
FA Cup final because you're not shaking hands with the
Royals or anything like that, but and you know, there's

(01:11:39):
a few fewer fans twenty six thousand, I think it was.
But what it showed you in New Zealand is what
we're capable of. It feels like a massive turning point
for football and the only disappointing thing is that the
Phoenix kind of threw it away.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
Yeah, it was a shame that it was decided in
that way. Jacob Spoonly, alongside men commentary, said, this game
feels like it's setting itself up for either a moment
of brilliant or an eerror and unforrtunately it was the latter.
You know, you're still got to be there to capitalize
in Jake Brimmer, you know I'm terrific player, and then
got the second as well, Yeah did you?

Speaker 7 (01:12:15):
I kind of?

Speaker 14 (01:12:16):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
I feel like Auckland FC did enough to win the game,
but it would have. But but then again, another part
of me thinks, what if it was a draw? That
would have been fair too, even if the Phoenix isn't one.

Speaker 11 (01:12:27):
I know, well, I thought the Phoenix had the best chance.
I can't believe. I think it was a shigi who
headed the ball down and over the bar. I think
both of you and Jacobs firmly said that it was
harder to do than get it into the goal and
why he hitted it, I'll never know, but it's probably
because he's short and he thought, I'm going to dive
at this and it got to the point where he

(01:12:48):
could have just prodded at home. That to me was
the best chance of the game. And then and then
calamity ensued, and I feel sorry for Oluwayemu, who's just
a young guy who's from English Nigerian guy who's got
tons of potential and cheap he has been in the

(01:13:09):
way that he is as a coach given him that
chance and said no, we're believe in you, and now
it's that was just a howler for people who didn't
say it. He cleared the ball, but only about three
meters straight to a Orkad the FC player, who was
what six yards from golf.

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
I'm not sure if you heard me say before you
might not have. But after the game, you know, the
fans will come down onto the pitch or one into
the pitch and they line up and the players go
along and sign autographs and photos and stuff like that.
He stayed out the whole time. He could easily have
gone on ahead, but he stayed out, signed every autograph,
every photo, chatted to the fans was clearly you know,

(01:13:49):
distraughted what had happened, but fronted up stayed out there.

Speaker 11 (01:13:55):
Yeah, I know, And that's the thing I mean.

Speaker 9 (01:13:56):
It was.

Speaker 11 (01:13:58):
Unfortunately for the Yellow Fever and even the Phoenix organization.
I mean they flew it playing over Mount Smart the
week before, so this is a humbling experience for them,
but it means it's so tantalizing for Derby number two,
which is I think December of the seventh at go
Media Mount Smart. So well there was The one thing

(01:14:21):
I noted is that the they've seen must feel pretty
toughed at signing a hole of players from national league
level domestic football, and they were perfectly at home and
a league in fact, looked like they're the best on
show as well.

Speaker 3 (01:14:38):
Hey did you see the the billboard that Auckland put up.

Speaker 11 (01:14:43):
Yeah, the Ellington.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
So clever, so clever. For those who haven't seen it,
the sign reads welcome to Wellington, but it actually reads
welcome to Ellington, and underneath it says we took the
dub well the w back to Auckland. I think that's tremendous, tremendous.

Speaker 11 (01:15:03):
Last Actually, I haven't seen football this kind of high
since the Bahrain game, which was two thousand and nine.

Speaker 5 (01:15:11):
And this is what I think.

Speaker 11 (01:15:13):
He's zell and football's really needed. It's incredible to think
there was fifteen years ago Piney probably one of my
favorite experiences. But now I think fans in Wellington and
Auckland can look forward to some really exciting times.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
Yep, looking forward to it. I now we seem to
talk about Wallace Satiti every week, but I feel like
we should talk about Wallace a Titi again.

Speaker 11 (01:15:32):
Yeah, I think so. I think he's going to be
There's there a breakthrough performance that will rugby hands out.
I mean that's going to him surely right after a testamtch.
He just looks so assured and good things happen when
he's got the ball.

Speaker 3 (01:15:48):
I don't know, he just looks like he's been there
forever and you know he's good in the loose, but
he makes his tackles, he makes good decisions the offload
for Mark delay, but also off the pitch. By the
sounds of it, he's just an absolute diamond of a
human being.

Speaker 11 (01:16:03):
He really is a lovely guy. And this is his
first season at any high level. Just bear in mind
first season of Super Rugby straight into the All Blacks,
forces his way into the top side. I mean England
will be gutted that Wallace to Titi has emerged because
he could have just spent his year as a squad player,
you know, but he was given a chance took it

(01:16:24):
with both hands. He's one of those rarities where he's
hurting people without the ball, so he's so good in defense,
but on attack you're just so excited to see him
in possession and that offload for Tilia for the first try.
But I've got to actually, if we're going to talk
about this game, we really have to talk about Helena.
It's finished for the second try. Incredible four tacklers I'd

(01:16:48):
say he got rid of, including George Ford. And that's
foreshadowing to a moment that's coming up. Damien McKenzie probably
silencing a few critics of you know who seem to
text into your show with that tell A silenced all
of them, which is good, which is what we want,

(01:17:13):
always going to be open for the criticism, right, and
then George Ford missing a penalty and a drop goal.
I think it wasn't quite the same as the Phoenix
throwing away the game, but I think by subbing Marcus Smith,
the England first five, who is world class talent, when
he was having such a good game and especially off
the team, I think that decided the Test match in

(01:17:34):
the end.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
Yeah, couldn't agree more, could not agree more. Did you
get Did you get the chance to watch the Rugby
League last night?

Speaker 9 (01:17:41):
Yes?

Speaker 11 (01:17:41):
I did, and I love the Kiwis of all my heart,
but it does feel like a work in progress Kiwis team.
We've had to and I mean this is no excuse,
but we've had to bring Sean Johnson out of retirement.
Let's and Joey marn who's gone off to rugby. So
it means that jar Oh and Hughes, Joseph marn who

(01:18:03):
and Nelson assof of Solomon are probably are three three
of our best players aren't there. I know it's no
excuse because I think they're the talent was there to
win it. But let's just a shit that we are
blooding plint players like you know yan O'Kinney the fullback
ran for the two hundred meters. Just wait and see
what this kid can be in the Kewis jersey. But look,

(01:18:28):
I'm a bit tongue really myself I love that team,
and they came out of the block so fast and
it just took a couple of you know, it's extremely
gutsy tackles and defensive phrase to keep the keys out.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
Yeah, indeed it was. Yeah, it was quite the contest
I mentioned before. I only read half an eye on it.
But even when you look at the scoreboard and you
see it halftime, Tongue are twenty four to six ahead.
In fact, they were twenty four mill up, weren't they
after thirty four minutes? And then you're look at the
final score. Yeah, crazy old game, but no, well done
to tong and great crowd there too. You look into

(01:19:06):
the stands at Mount Smart and it's equal measure red
and black there for a Tonga Kiwi's test.

Speaker 11 (01:19:11):
I feel like the song them fans are the best
fans in the world, and that's I mean, they showed
us in that twenty eleven World Cup Rugby World Cup
what they could do, and I think it's sort of
inspired a lot of other fans to go, Okay, yeah
we can do this too. But I mean there are obviously,
you know, football fans from other nations that say we're

(01:19:32):
the one is the traveling support and all that sort
of thing. But just seeing them come out with that
kind of fervor and passion and just basically create the
atmosphere by themselves at the stadium. You would not have
that for Kiwi's versus Kangaroos.

Speaker 3 (01:19:47):
No, one hundred percent, one hundred percent. Hey, just before
you a cricket day, how many days have we had?
Only two? Haven't we?

Speaker 5 (01:19:55):
Where?

Speaker 3 (01:19:55):
What are? We won seventy one for nine in our
second and things lead one hundred and forty three. So well,
I mean when yeah, when Willow Rock comes into bad,
I think you kind of get ready to kind of
get ready for things to wrap up, don't you. But
so what India we need one hundred and fifty odd
to win. They'll probably win the tast doesn't the she man,
it doesn't. We've won the series.

Speaker 11 (01:20:13):
Yeah, we've won the series.

Speaker 10 (01:20:14):
It's fine.

Speaker 11 (01:20:14):
It's a bit like with the Netble. You know, we
won the Constellation Cup and then you know, Dame Auntie
Knoles just put out a whole of you know, sort
of experimental selections with this one. Well we won the
series without Kin Williams and our best player, you know,
for example, So they'll still be on the high it's
just a bit gunning because they've got themselves into almost

(01:20:36):
good positions. But really, the one thing I think with
this black Cat side is yeah, it's great that we've
beaten India, but it does fail with so many players
I think eight of the eleven gen over over thirty,
there's going to be a bit of a changing of
the guard at some point, and maybe a look at
the lower middle order as well, just to see what

(01:20:58):
happens there. And it just shows how someone like bj
Whatland we've just worked his weight in gold and even
Daniel Vittori and j Jake Boren in their later years,
you know, we had those bottom order fight backs that
we don't seem to have from this Black Tap side.
But it's no real criticism, just something that maybe need

(01:21:20):
some tingering. And look, they're going to come home victorious
and they've made history. I've done.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
We need to put the call out for that, you know,
the next kind of cricketing prodigy. You know how came
Williamson at school was famous because no one could get
him out. He used it to battle day every day
and his dad even reversed the batting order one day
to give everybody else a go. Same with rich and
Ravindra when he was coming through and Wellington, everyone was
talking about this kid out of hud International Boys School
who was the next big thing. I want to know

(01:21:46):
who that is now? Who's this fifteen sixteen year old
who's just getting pots of runs around the country somewhere
and no we can get him out?

Speaker 11 (01:21:54):
Well, maybe you and I need to go away and
work on that. You go to HUBS, the National Boys School.
I know to how many Boys High because that's where
Mitchell Santina came out of. And between that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
Call yeah hoops, that's it.

Speaker 11 (01:22:08):
Between herbs and hand boys, we'll find the new prodigy.
I guarantee next week's show we'll be naming names and
basically giving us some hope for the future.

Speaker 3 (01:22:18):
Love it good man, James grit To Chenna has always
made always love our chant's James mccony big part of
our Sundays here on News TALKSB seven to seven to two.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
From breaking down the Hail Mary's and the epic fields
weekends for It with Jason Lyme, News Talk z MB.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
Four to two now on Real Life Tonight Here on
News TALKSB with John Cowen seven thirty Tonight, Rising Black
Fern star Mayah Roose is his guest, So seven thirty tonight,
Real Life Blackfern star Maya Rouz joining John Cowen. Seven
thirty so the interesting one to tune into After two
o'clock Sharco feature documentary about New Zealand rugby league legend

(01:22:59):
Mark Graham, put together by his filmmaker son Luke. Luke
and Mark Graham are in studio with us after two
Wayne Golds as well. What makes us so good at sport?

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
The only place for the big names, the big issues,
the big controversies and the big conversations heads all on
Weekend Sport with Jason Vain on your home of Sport
News Talks.

Speaker 9 (01:23:25):
Ad been.

Speaker 3 (01:23:27):
Two o seven an hour ago. Then Tim Beveridge is
in studio for the Weekend Collective Sunday edition. I'm Jason
Pine with Any McDonald alongside. We're here for another hour.
Mark and Luke Graham are with us in studio shortly
as well. Mark Graham kee wee rugby league legend, his
son Luke filmmaker and he's put together a film about

(01:23:49):
his dad. It's called Sharko, a feature length and documentary
to be released later this week, so they're going to
pop in Mark and Luke Graham. In fact they're already
here ready to go very shortly and have a chat
to us about the documentary. Wayne Goldsmith, our regular coaching
guru from across the Ditch, get a chat to us
today about what is it that makes Kiwi sports people

(01:24:13):
so good? What or what are the qualities which are
perhaps specific or common to Kiwis that make us so
good at sport. I've got a rugby league at a
rugby will squeeze and what we can lines remain open
on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty nine two nine
two if you'd like to correspond via text, But as
we always do it around about this time on weekend

(01:24:34):
sport and what is the time approaching eight pass too?
It is time to bring you up to date with
all of the stuff you may well have missed. It's
been a lot of sport on a lot and there's
heaps to come as well. It's one of those times
of the year when you don't quite know where to look.
Let's start with the rugby league in Tonga getting up
to win an absolute thriller over the Kiwis at Mount

(01:24:54):
Smart last night. KAWCUSI. Let's play now and then it's
going to see if they do for a field goal.
It's some stay slung er. This might be their only chance.
Cuta cuta.

Speaker 9 (01:25:08):
Let's turn of the lead.

Speaker 3 (01:25:10):
There the drop gold and win. At twenty five twenty
four the Breakers, they're at the top of the Australian
National Basketball League table after a blowout win against Adelaide.
Time winding down Vromnega who.

Speaker 22 (01:25:23):
Started it all and finishes it in style.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
What a performance from New Zealand.

Speaker 4 (01:25:29):
They improved it five and two and proved their knives
flash in the.

Speaker 3 (01:25:33):
Pan to Formula one and in Brazil, Sugio Pieriz managed
to get one back against Liam Lawson in the sprint race.

Speaker 23 (01:25:40):
We're on board with Sergio Perez, who's down in ninth
basically still fancies trying to get past the car in
front of to me of loss and trying to cover
it off very very late, and then realized he wasn't
going to cover that off at all and thought, no,
I'd better back out before we get a few problems here.
Perez gets past Lawson. Add up into eighth week.

Speaker 3 (01:25:58):
Let's go to the cricket. The black Caps are in
a precarious position, shall we say, heading into day three
of the Third Test against India, knots of all ovid
one that was inevitable. Don't beat the outside head, not
the odds down. New Zealand lose another.

Speaker 21 (01:26:18):
That's number nine in the match for Jadajia, who has
bold beautifully.

Speaker 24 (01:26:23):
That's an absolute crack.

Speaker 3 (01:26:24):
I mean, let Darmspinner's dream about it. Yes, a New
Zealand nine down on their second innings, a lead of
just one hundred and forty three runs worth three full
days to play the All Blacks fifteen impressor and they'll
win over monster in Limerick this morning.

Speaker 25 (01:26:37):
Into red few years through the hands picked off, intercepted honey,
Old Blacks are gonna go the distance here Tlemar has.

Speaker 3 (01:26:45):
Hands on it, he's the only one to catch him.
It's all the way to the tryline for the number
ten and he finishes in the corner. Final score thirty
eight twenty four to the All Blacks fifteen and to
the Premier League AFC Bournemouth, of all teams have handed
Manchester City their first loss of the season. He's a toll.

Speaker 4 (01:27:03):
Revenue side.

Speaker 9 (01:27:09):
The lake Xarity Stadium Raps AFC.

Speaker 5 (01:27:13):
Pautit screwed it up against the Shations and.

Speaker 3 (01:27:17):
They won it. To one good weekend for Bill Foley
owned teams Bornmouth and Aupland FC and Nottingham Forest up
to the dizzying heights of third on the Premier League
Ladder thanks to a win over west Ham, spurred on
by an early goal from you guessed it? Chris Wood?
What's the target? Langas waiting?

Speaker 4 (01:27:37):
Darry sports.

Speaker 3 (01:27:40):
One moment that is all they needs Forrest man Man
How is the natica?

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
Analyzing every view from every angle in the sporting world
Weekend Sport with Jason Vine Call.

Speaker 9 (01:27:57):
News Talk MB.

Speaker 3 (01:27:59):
It is eleven past two on Weekend Sport. Shako is
a featured documentary about New Zealand rugby league led and
Mark Sharko Graham and his prime Mark Graham the best
rugby league player in the world. Renowned for his size,
his speed, his skill and his toughness. Sharko includes interviews
with Graham, Low, Wally Lewis, Steve Roach, Hugh mcgahann, Paul

(01:28:21):
Vaughton and many others. But it's about more than just
rugby league and our best ever rugby league player. It
has written, directed and produced by Mark Graham's son, Luke Graham.
Mark and Luke Graham both in studio here at News Talks.
He'd be great to see you both. Congratulations on Sharko.
It is a brilliant watch.

Speaker 9 (01:28:42):
Louke.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
Can I start with you? Are you happy with the
way that it's come out? Yes?

Speaker 25 (01:28:46):
Yes, thank you. Firstly, thanks for having us, appreciate the support.
It's been a few years in the making, as you'd expect,
but it's I'm glad it's over, but it was. It
was an amazing experience to kind of relive the past,
some good things, some bad things. But I'm really happy
to get it out there too the public and see
what they think.

Speaker 3 (01:29:05):
Look, can you tell us about the motivation behind Sharko.
When did it start as a German of an idea
and how did it grow to the point where you thought, right,
I'm gonna make this.

Speaker 25 (01:29:16):
Well, it's it's it's I guess it's been sitting with
me for a very long time, to be honest, it's
you know, my father's always been you know, he's my
idol to this to this day, and it was Roby
Leagu's always been part of our family. And when you're
doing films.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
You really like to do.

Speaker 25 (01:29:35):
Things you're going to stick with and you believe in,
and things you you love. And I love Rugby League,
I love my father and I was I was really
happy to be able to get the opportunity to make
this film. So it's it's been forty plus years in
the making, but it's been six years germinating.

Speaker 3 (01:29:55):
Well, it's amazing. Mark. You said during the during the
doco that you rarely only agreed to do it because
it was Luke who was doing it. You wouldn't necessarily
have done it if an independent person off the street
who you didn't know had asked you about it. How
did you find the process?

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
Absolutely though I would have said no, And yeah, well
I didn't. I didn't really have anything much to do
with except Luke organized for me to answer some questions
in an old tin shed and it rained, so we
had to do it again the next day.

Speaker 3 (01:30:26):
And that's that's.

Speaker 2 (01:30:28):
I've had no input other than that. Yeah, So to
watch it there, I've watched a couple of different versions
of it. Yeah, and I've been totally blown away. But
how good Luke is at what he does. So as
his profession, which is a storytelling event, and he's done
a wonderful job.

Speaker 3 (01:30:48):
Yeah, no, you're you're right. It's it's brilliantly told. And
I was going to ask you about sitting in that shed.
It's very rustic, isn't it. The background Well chosen Luke
for Mark to be sitting there. But you said, what
it rained one day, so you had to do it
the next day. So how many hours were we actually
sitting in that chair and that shedjarning to one another.

Speaker 2 (01:31:05):
Good question about eight to ten?

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
Yeah, yeah, it was actually.

Speaker 25 (01:31:11):
As you'd expect. You filmed for a long long time,
and even all the rest of the interviews we've probably filmed.
I probably filmed three hundred plus hours of interviews, wow,
for eighty three minutes for an eighty three minute documentary.
But that's what you have to do when you're having
those having those yarns with people. And I got to say,
Footy plays a very good story.

Speaker 3 (01:31:30):
Tell us, well, I certainly are, and that comes through
in all of the interviews that you've done. So post production,
the post you know, doing all of the interviews, all
that raw footage, all those hours and hours and hours
tell us about the process then of getting it down
to your eighty three minutes.

Speaker 11 (01:31:47):
Well, I was.

Speaker 25 (01:31:48):
I think my first cup was about four and a
half hours, and I think I had definitely enjoyed it,
and a few of my friends did, but we really
needed to cut it down for an actual audience. So
I had some very lucky to have some talented and
very honest people around me, and well, you know, it
did take a long time because I am very stubborn

(01:32:09):
and I am very disagreeable at some things. But we
got down to we got it down over about six
to eight months through the edit, and we got to
a really good place. And I am to be honest,
without the editors, there's many people in making that edit happen,
so without them, we wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
Be here today.

Speaker 10 (01:32:28):
Mark.

Speaker 3 (01:32:28):
Another thing that you said, I think quite near the
start actually was that you weren't sure anyone would actually
remember you or want to watch it, which I think
was very self deprecating. Does your rugby league career now
feel like it was almost something that happened in the
past life or not?

Speaker 2 (01:32:42):
Yeah, pretty much absolutely. You know, to have the good
fortune that I had and some of the accolades and
awards that I've won, it seems very much like a
Walt Disney movie. You know where everything comes. You know,
everything works out in the end. And you know, as
I've said this on many occasions and we'll continue to say,

(01:33:04):
you can't be a good rugby leg player in a
team unless you play with good players. So I was
very fortunate.

Speaker 3 (01:33:12):
When you look back, or when you think back, actually,
how often do you do you think back on your
rugby league career? What do you think about a game
of rugby league every day? For example?

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
No, never have. Well, I that was a wonderful period
of my life. But now I'm retired and I've got
other things to think about, mainly my bad golf swing
and what I'm going to do for the rest of
the afternoon.

Speaker 3 (01:33:38):
I think those are questions for a lot of us actually,
But when you do reflect back, and I guess you know,
going through the process of making this documentary would have
almost in some ways forced you to what is it
that stands out most vividly about your days playing rugby
league at the top level?

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
See a good question. I don't know if anything really
particularly stands yet. I think rugby league in the past
has been plagued and I don't know it will most
probably continue to be plagued by a bad administration. There
seems to be plenty of it. I've played for North
Sydney and we used to be it would get a

(01:34:20):
new coach every couple of years, and for some reason,
some bloke who didn't know the rules of the game
or didn't know much about the game was coaching in
first grade in Sydney. So I was in shock most
of the time about that. But I was never backward
and coming forward, so he knew how I felt about
him pretty quickly.

Speaker 3 (01:34:39):
There's some amazing footage, look that you've procured from you
know Kiwi's matches in particular, and man, those are some
memory triggers in there for those of us who grew
up watching those wonderful Kiewi's teams. Do you have any
trouble getting the archival footage? Was it relatively straightforward to
come by?

Speaker 8 (01:34:55):
Well?

Speaker 25 (01:34:55):
Sadly Rugby League hasn't been I guess the archive the
history hasn't been respected, especially from the video. The video
perspective it was in the eighties and even the previous
film they did which we use footage of Dad in
when we tried to get footage. One of the networks
in Australia had the rights, they lost it, they burnt

(01:35:15):
all their archive. They didn't hand it over to the
new South Oaserabi League or anything, and that's kind of
the way it was. So, you know, half the time
were we got footage from broadcast or et cetera. But
you know the other half it was John O who
recorded it on his VHS to his TV in nineteen
eighty three and he kept the DVD and he contacted

(01:35:37):
me or contacted someone else and we were lucky enough
to get that footage. So it was it was a
bit of a journey doing the archive, but luckily we
got there in the end.

Speaker 3 (01:35:46):
Yeah, and it adds so much to it, you know.
You you know, Mark, you talk about some of these
games or some of the other interviewees do, and then
you see that footage and man, again, it's just so
well done, you guys. It just is a really, really
good piece of work. Just back to the edit. Look
interested you know, you said you had four and a
half hours earth and you thought, oh, that's pretty good.

(01:36:07):
Down to eighty three, did it get to the point
where you were just watching it so much that actually
you were a bit of a more of diminishing return.
And you thought, I've watched this too much, I can't
possibly be dispassionate about it anymore.

Speaker 25 (01:36:18):
Well, well, definitely. To be honest, I'll be honest with filmmaking,
is I I changed the editor and we changed a
few shots. And hopefully this this doesn't go across to Australia,
Sis screen Astraians from Queensland don't here. But we changed
a few shots recently. And you you know, as a filmmaker,
that's part of you know, as a rugby league player,
you've got to train, you've got to eat right, you've
got to sleep. As a filmmaker, you just you know,

(01:36:40):
I've seen that film a thousand times. When you went round.
We were watching the cinema. I was looking. I was
still picking out mistakes in everything that I we were doing,
and I was thinking, oh gosh, oh no. But it's
you know, it's it's part and parcel to filmmaking, and yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:36:58):
Yeah, across you have to be it probably that you'll
never be, never be entirely pleased.

Speaker 9 (01:37:03):
Mark.

Speaker 3 (01:37:04):
You were obviously well known for the the incredible toughness
that you brought to the rugby league field and the
punishment you took the physical punishment you took. Do you
have any lasting effects from that?

Speaker 2 (01:37:17):
My wife would mostually say so Jason. She's always getting
onto me saying you keep forgetting things. Well do I
just wanted to don't want to do what you ask
if you do. But I can use it as a
bit of a crux.

Speaker 3 (01:37:29):
Yes, But what about physically you're able to? I mean
I can only tell by looking at the You know
you're in pretty good physical shape. Still you okay to
get around? You can get around a golf course obviously.

Speaker 10 (01:37:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:38):
Yeah, like you know, I trained, they still train. I
lift weights, So yeah, I lift heavy weights. I play
a bit of golf. I've had a neck operation and
a Shouler reversal, and they wanted to give me a.

Speaker 24 (01:37:52):
Knee.

Speaker 2 (01:37:54):
Something to do with my knee. Knee anyway, it was
a big one. Anyway, just changed my diet and so
I don't have sugar, dairy or gluten, and all my
inflammatory markers have dropped and I'm good to go.

Speaker 3 (01:38:11):
Great to hear, great to hear. Thank you.

Speaker 26 (01:38:13):
Look.

Speaker 3 (01:38:13):
This is a documentary about rugby league and about a
rugby league player, obviously, but it's also about family and
the tragedy that your family, with the death of Matthew,
your son Mark, your brother Luke. How confronting Luke was
that to relive well yet to.

Speaker 25 (01:38:29):
Be honest, and I'll say that with the Dad and
I hadn't talked about it before, and that was one
of the first things when I was discussing the idea
with Dad was that I wanted to bring up about
Matthew's passing because it wasn't It's something that we'd lived through.
We'd kind of exactly what it was in the film.

(01:38:51):
We didn't talk about it prior. We haven't talked about
it prior. We talked about it then and there and
we were as you could you could see that we
were on very similar wave links with it and how
we dealt.

Speaker 2 (01:39:01):
With it, etc.

Speaker 25 (01:39:02):
And that was kind of the way we survived, was
dealing with it like that. But it was what was
really important, especially for myself, was that we were communicating
to an audience about something that every single human being
deals with in some way, shape or form. No one's
really Superman, no one's bulletproof. We all feel no matter

(01:39:23):
who we are in this world, and it's really important
that you know, certainly just as a filmmaker myself to
to to communicate to the public that it's okay, it's okay.
You know, sometimes we feel down, sometimes we feel great,
but make sure that you're communicate to those people around
you or if you can see someone, give them a hand.

Speaker 3 (01:39:42):
It's incredibly authentic. It's pretty raw, pretty harrowing. Mark, How
have you managed to move on in your life after
such a tragedy.

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
I think, yeah, well, I think, as Luke just pointed
out Jason, that the fact of the matter is that
not everything goes really good for everybody, and it's just
one of them things that you've got to do everybody,
everybody that you know, and I know I've most really
lost somebody. They've had a heartbreak, had financial waves, have
had lack of sleep, whatever. You know, there's there's lots
of problems out there, and we just deal with them

(01:40:13):
by getting up in the morning and doing your best
you can. And I'm a believer in the Good Lord,
and I pray in the morning and in the evening,
and I pray for Matthew and my family and and
any every chance I can get, so, you know, and
I just compartmentalized. I just put it there and I
get to it when I go to bed that that
evening and I think about it, then.

Speaker 3 (01:40:35):
Well, it adds an extraordinary layer to to a to
a terrific documentary. Just before you go, Sharko. You tease
us all the way through. You know, you ask all
your guests you know why is he called Sharko? A
couple of them ever have a guess at it, but
nobody seems to really know. And even at the end,
unless I've missed it, you don't tell us. So how
did you get the nickname? Well, it's it was, it was.

Speaker 25 (01:40:58):
It was very interesting how he got that in it
was I think he got it through a friend of his,
and that friend was nice and to actually tell me
very recently about it, and while I was making the documentary,
because obviously that was one of his. He's had a
few nick names. A few of them we can't say
on radio obviously, but yeah, this this gentleman told me
about it, told me the nickname, and I thought that was.

Speaker 3 (01:41:20):
That was very good.

Speaker 25 (01:41:21):
But sadly, Jason, I'm not going to tell you.

Speaker 3 (01:41:23):
I knew you were coming to that, Luke. I knew
as you were as you were affering that scene. Since
I thought there's a butt. There's a butt coming up
at the end of this, but I can't tell you.
I can't tell you what it adds a. I just
love it how it ends without the thought I'm finally
going to find out why he's called Sharko. I donet
never did, I never did again, guys, terrific. I really

(01:41:44):
enjoyed watching it. I thought it was a terrific piece
of filmmaking.

Speaker 18 (01:41:47):
Luke.

Speaker 3 (01:41:47):
By you, Mark, even though you sound as though you
were an unwilling subject, I think it's a terrific portrayal
of your life, both on and off the rugby league field.
Thanks for popping in for a chat. I'm sure a
lot of people will take a lot from Sharko.

Speaker 2 (01:42:01):
Thank you, Jason, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:42:02):
Thanks guys. That's Luke Graham and Mark Graham. Shark is
the name of the documentary. It premiere is in the
weak ahead. In fact, I think the first premiere is
actually tonight, guys.

Speaker 10 (01:42:14):
Is yes, it is.

Speaker 3 (01:42:15):
It's tonight and Lynn Moore the first premiere Sharko. It's
called I'm sure if you googled it you'll find all
the screening details. I've had the chance to have a
look at an advanced screening of it ahead of having
a chat to the guys, and yeah, it's well worth
a look, not just for rugby league fans who will
take plenty from it, but for sports fans and those

(01:42:37):
who enjoy good filmmaking, which this certainly is. Two twenty
six Quick check on some Ford trophy scores for you.
First innings all done across our three matches in Hamilton
Northern District's all at two forty eight against Auckland. Auckland
about to set off in chase of two forty nine
to win that one. Slightly easier task for central districts.

(01:43:00):
In the range Yoda they only need two hundred and
five to beat Canterbury after bowling them out for two
hundred and four. And in Dunedin Wellington have bowled Otagoat
in the final over of their fifty for two hundred
and seventy three. They'll shortly get out there and try
and chase down two hundred and seventy four to win
that one. When we come back on weekend sport. What

(01:43:21):
are the things about us as Kiwi's that are qualities
which also lead to us being successful on the sports field?
Wayne Goldsmith, Our coaching Guru with one of his regular
chats to us on this very thing right after.

Speaker 9 (01:43:35):
This It's more than just a game.

Speaker 1 (01:43:38):
Weekends for it with Jason Pine and GJ. Garnoves new
Zealand's most trusted home builder News TALKSB.

Speaker 3 (01:43:46):
News Talks AB two thirty. The last few weeks have
seen a period of terrific success for Kiwis on the
international sporting states. The White Ferns of course T twenty
World champions, the black Caps winning a series in India
for the first time, Team New Zealand retaining the America's Cup,
Liam Lawson getting his full time Formula one drive, Silver

(01:44:06):
Ferns winning the Constellation Cup, triathlet Hayden Wild winning events
in the World Series, New Zealand claiming a record medal
haul at the Paris Olympics, and lots more. One of
our regular contributors on the show is Coaching Guru Wayne Goldsmith.
He's worked with New Zealand swimming, netball, rugby, triathlon, rugby league,
rowing and the Canoe Kayak Organization and has been to

(01:44:29):
and worked in sport in Southland, Otago, Canterbury, Wellington, Tatanhaky, Hamilton,
Hawks Bay, gisbon Auckland, Northland, Bay of Plenty and Topor,
so he's pretty well placed to analyze the success and
put it into context for us. Wayne. First of all,
are their qualities which are uniquely key we or certainly

(01:44:50):
common to New Zealanders, which contribute to our sporting success.

Speaker 9 (01:44:56):
I think about that a lot because a part of
my job is as a as a sports consultant or
as an advisor, is to try and understand in the why.
So anyone can look at the white and say, wow,
look this is impressive, but you start to dig in
and say, how did they do it? But why is
this happening? It can be sometimes you've got one great

(01:45:18):
coach or a set of circumstances that have led to
a situation where you've got an edgy in something. But
the consistency with which New Zealand has just managed to
keep producing great athletes, great coaches, great teams, men and women,
different ages, different sports, Paris sport, Olympic sport, the range

(01:45:39):
has been incredible. So you've got to start to really
dig into why. And look, he may be listening. I
can't remember the guy's name, but I was at a
conference in New Zealand in Auckland a long time ago,
That's Sport in New Zealand had put on and they
kicked off with a guy who was a New Zealand
cultural expert who explained the way the Keywis do what

(01:46:02):
they do and he said, when you think about us,
he said, remember that on the world stage, our three
most prominent symbols are a black jumper, so no color
if you like, a flightless, quiet burd that hangs around
under bushes, and the underside of a fern. And he said,

(01:46:23):
and I was trying to figure ou where he was
going with this point, and he said, it's because we
just get on with it, quietly, unassuming. We just do
what we do and we're not looking for accolades. We
don't talk ourselves up. And he talked about how your symbols,
your national symbols, very much reflect that, and every key
we that I spoke to at that conference said, yes,

(01:46:45):
this guy gets it. And I think that's why it's
that's the contrast say between New Zealand and Australia, New
Zealand and the United States, that we're very much the opposite.
We like to talk it up. There's a lot of bluster,
there's a lot of trash talking and there's all that
sort of stuff. Can we just get on with it?
And I think it's again that you've managed to do

(01:47:08):
some remarkable things without having to sing and dance and
tell the world about it. You just get on with it.

Speaker 3 (01:47:15):
I guess the flip side of that, and you would
have picked up on this, I'm sure is the accusation
that has often aimed at us, and the comparison has
made with Australians on this is that we're not hard
nosed enough, we're not winners, We're just happy to participate.
But both things can be true, can't they?

Speaker 9 (01:47:33):
Oh, of course they can. I think there was. There
was a book written by great Australian historian called Jeffrey
Blainey called The Tyranny of Distance, and in it he
argued that who Australia was was a product of two things.
Was its history, which up to the mid nineteen hundreds

(01:47:54):
was largely a product of the influence of English colonization,
and then it's become very very multic contribution and impact
of indigenous Australians. But he said it was that was
a big factor. But he said one of the biggest
reasons why we are who we are was the tyranny

(01:48:16):
of distance. Was we couldn't just pop across the border
and have interactions with another country. Wasn't easy to get around,
and we had to develop our own way of doing things,
which was both a strength and a weakness. And I
think New Zealand is that even more so. I think
that you know, it's easy to say, well, we're not
like France and Germany and we can't do it like

(01:48:37):
the United States, and we don't have the advantages that
Europeans or the But do you know what, I think
that's one of the key reasons why you're so great is.

Speaker 17 (01:48:46):
Because you've got to come up with your own way
of doing things. You can go, well, we're at the
bottom of.

Speaker 9 (01:48:52):
The world or a long way from Enyth. It cost
us a bloody fortune to get and compete. Sure, you
could argue that those are the things that are potential disadvantages,
or you get on with it and say, we're going
to find a way to win that's genuinely uniquely kiw
We're going to find a way to win that works
for us where we are. And look, I think not

(01:49:16):
as much as it used to be pint. It used
to be that we could almost do what I used
to call hit and run missions, which was too We
would come up with some ideas and some unique ways
of doing things in this part of the world and
then head up north compete against Americans, the Canadians, the Brits,
the Europeans, and get a bit of an edge on

(01:49:36):
them because we had to come up with ideas and
things and ways of doing things that maybe they weren't.
Now the Internet means everybody knows what everybody knows, and
you can get the same information and the ideas that
swapped around. But I think it's still very much the
case is that where Kiwi's are brilliant is that they're

(01:49:57):
doing things, saying things, performing in uniquely Kiwi ways. So look,
I think you could argue both ways, and you know,
I think some of the dumb things that you could do. So,
for example, if you're in in Kirwi, sport is so
we want to be more like the Americans. Let's bring
an American coach in and let's become like that. It's

(01:50:20):
not going to work. I think the great success story
is keny Wes are great because they do things at ken.

Speaker 3 (01:50:26):
We waiy love it now. The Tarranney of distance is interesting,
but what about our size way and only five million
of us over here? Do you think that also feeds
into our success? A bit of a little brother mentality.
We want to we'll show you kind.

Speaker 8 (01:50:40):
Of thing.

Speaker 9 (01:50:42):
To a degree. Look, I think of other countries around
the world who've got small populations who've managed to do
remarkable things. So you think a place is like Croatia
in football they've done remarkably well. And places like Norway
for example, small population, relatively isolated, not the best weather.

(01:51:02):
You wouldn't go there for a holiday if you was
looking for sunshine. But with a small population. If you
look at their results in winter sport, particularly in the
Winter Games, they've been exceptional. But do you know even
there if you were to the list and you've just
rattled off a handful, But if you add to that swimming,
going back to ninety six with Loader, if you go

(01:51:24):
back to the great great track and field distance runners
that came through the Lydiard program fifties and sixties, if
you go back that long and you look at Norway,
and you look at Crowwats and other places with relatively
small populations, and a little isolated. You go, yet, well
they've done that, but where are there runners? They're triathletes,
their golf players, their conuey kayakers, the netballers, their rugby

(01:51:48):
league players. Know the range of sport that New Zealand's
been successful in is absolutely unparallel. And if you do
the world championship, world record, Olympic medal per head of population,
I think that per capita measure is brilliant that it's
mind blowing. And you know, it's interesting that this thing

(01:52:12):
that sporting leaders do, which we call a junket. After
every Olympics, they head off and they go, well, US
won the medal count, or China won the medal count,
or England did pretty good in the medal count. Let's
go and do some benchmarking and have a look and
see what they're doing. And for the life of me,
I don't understand, particularly why smaller nations don't come to

(01:52:33):
New Zealand to see what you're doing, because if they
truly understood the scope and the range of sports that
you've been successful in, their heads would explode. But they
chase the big shiny objects that are really obvious and
out there telling everybody how good they are and again
made the key we just get on with it. It

(01:52:54):
is a really unique sporting situation on the world stage,
and I'm surprised there's not more people marching to your
door trying to figure out what you've been doing.

Speaker 3 (01:53:04):
So, when you think about the qualities of a Kiwi
sports person, and let's move it to the elite level,
how do your best as a coach harnessed that, how
do you make the most, ring the most out of
the qualities you've talked about as being quintessentially Kiwi.

Speaker 9 (01:53:23):
Well, I'm a big believer in a phrase that I
use called that ultimately you play like your place and
you and I have talked about this some time back.
But Brazilians are not taught to play football. They're taught
to play football, but they do it that way because
they're Brazilians, and twenty four hours a day they eat,
they drink, they sleep, they talk, their faith, their geography,

(01:53:47):
their family structure, their culture, everything about them is Brazilian.
That's reflected in the way that they play football. Germans
play football like Germans, Australians play cricket like Australia. The
teams that have been very, very successful on a sustained basis,
go that's who we are. We know what it looks
like and we're doing it our unique way. Now, if

(01:54:09):
you're coaching, if someone said, Wayne, whence you come and
coach the Tea Key we team, I wouldn't even mention Australia.
As much as I'm a proud Australian I love it,
I wouldn't even dream of saying, let's do it in
an Australian way or in New Zealand or a way
Canadian way. I would say step one is to figure
out what does it look like in training day to day,

(01:54:31):
to do it at Key Wee way and look at that.
So you know, I sit back as the Australian, I'd say,
how to describe que culture, good people, friendly, family focused
of course, great unity in their culture with the married
people and and the rest of the population. In New Zealand, resilient,

(01:54:52):
really tough, no excuses about the weather. Just they deal
with it and get on with it.

Speaker 17 (01:54:57):
You know I would I would go, well, then that's
the way I'm going to coach them. Would not end
for a life of me. Come in and say, hey,
you know you can be better.

Speaker 9 (01:55:07):
We're going to train like the Americans, or we're going
to copy the English system and we're going to do
it does not work. The smartest thing you do as
a coaches go. I'm dealing with a group of athletes
who are tough, resilient, really openly caring, humble, there's no
doubt about that. Respectful. Just want to be left alone
to get on with it. Don't need to be motivated

(01:55:28):
and yell that screen out because that's not who they are.
Just keep going back, black jumper, underside of the fern,
flightless bird, those concepts and that's the way that you
coach them. They just get on with it. And I
think that's a beautiful quality and to it has to
it has to be the secret mate because the only

(01:55:49):
consistent thing over the last fifty or sixty years. Technology
has changed, transports changed, our views on nutrition and training,
all those things have changed. The one consistent factor in
the Kiwi sporting success story since the nineteen fifties has
been that's your bloody Kigwe's that you're doing it the

(01:56:09):
way you do it because of who you are and
where you are. And yeah, it's interesting that.

Speaker 17 (01:56:15):
That keewe's Quite often I think I'll be in a
group and coaches will say, oh yeah, but you know,
we haven't got this and we can't do I would
be if I had a new zooaland passport, knowing what
you've achieved, you know, you'd be walking around fill and
ten foot tall.

Speaker 3 (01:56:34):
Well, you're an honorary Keiwe You're always welcome over here
and as you know, fascinating insights as always, mate, Thanks
so much. Let's hope that the Kiwi success continues and
we'll catch up with you again sometime soon.

Speaker 9 (01:56:47):
Always a pleasure, my friend.

Speaker 3 (01:56:48):
Thanks Wayne, Wayne Goldsmith WG coaching dot commas's website if
you'd like to find out more about Wayne and the
work that he does, or you can just tune in
once every month or so when he joins us with
as many pearls of wisdom. Seventeen Away from Three News
talks Evy.

Speaker 1 (01:57:02):
The Tough Questions Off the Turf, Weekend Sport with Jess
in Time and GJ. Gunnerholmes, New Zealand's most trusted home builder.

Speaker 2 (01:57:10):
News dogs MB.

Speaker 3 (01:57:12):
Two forty six want to circle into the Rugby league.
The Kiwi's missing out on the final of the Pacific
Championship upter going down to Tonga in a thrilling match
last night at Mount smart the visitors prevailing twenty five
twenty four thanks to a seventy fifth minute field goal
from young halfback Isaiah Karta, but the win was only
secured after New Zealand's stormback. They were twenty four niiled

(01:57:33):
down New Zealand the first half. They leveled it up
at twenty four all with more than ten minutes to go,
having conceded four unanswered tries in the first thirty two minutes.
The Kiwis ran in four straight themselves and looked favorites
to win the match, but with time ticking down, Cartor
the hero for Tonga, nailing a thirty meter field goal
to send them through to next weekend's title decider against Australia.

(01:57:56):
It'll be the first time Tonga have played in a
Tier One final. Here is Kiwi's coach Stacy Jones with
his initial thoughts afterwards.

Speaker 24 (01:58:05):
Yeah, very tough. Obviously, the first half was we were
just physically.

Speaker 26 (01:58:13):
Physically batter They just ran harder, they tackled harder, forced
us into errors. We had eight errors in the first
half and it compounded and you know, we just lost
focus on jobs at times, you know, defensive eras where
you know, we gave up inside Childers, gave up a

(01:58:34):
couple of soft tries by you know, just defensive stuff
that's not in our principles. But it compounded off the
back of really ages physically dominated us in that first half.

Speaker 3 (01:58:46):
Was the team a little bit rattled in the first half.

Speaker 26 (01:58:49):
Look, it's probably more more on question for Fish, but
we spoke about it in the.

Speaker 24 (01:58:53):
Changing room and the boys, you know, we asked them
about it, and they said.

Speaker 26 (01:58:58):
They were really connected as far as the chat and
the huddle, so that was still fairly focused.

Speaker 24 (01:59:04):
But yeah, looks probably more question for the Fish, but you.

Speaker 26 (01:59:09):
Know, obviously didn't look like it, but I think the
boys said they were still pretty focused on what they
had to do.

Speaker 3 (01:59:15):
To the second half and the turnaround. What was behind
the turnaround in the second half.

Speaker 26 (01:59:20):
Yeah, Look, it was important that we got some points
on the board and gave us a bit of confidence going.

Speaker 9 (01:59:26):
Into that second half.

Speaker 26 (01:59:27):
And you know, we knew that if we got some
ball and good field position, you know, and we were
threatening and we showed that. Now we scored three tries
by playing some nice foot but it was also off
the back of where we started to be a bit
more physical and plaid the game model that we wanted

(01:59:48):
to play.

Speaker 24 (01:59:49):
But unfortunately the first half we just we just couldn't
do it.

Speaker 3 (01:59:53):
And so as the points were mounting and the scoreline
was getting narrow up between the two teams, did Stacy
Jones start to think that they could win the game.

Speaker 26 (02:00:00):
I didn't think we're going to win the game. We
had no meta obviously, but then I think we we
went a little bit loose defensively. We come up again
a couple of couple of eras down our left side,
and again that sort of took the momentum away.

Speaker 24 (02:00:21):
This level of footy you just can't You just can't
get the opposition possession of the footing. And when we
did get momentum with twenty Togo, that's what happened.

Speaker 3 (02:00:32):
We come up a couple of eras and finally from
m Keewy's lead coach Stacy Jones, were there any prep
issues leading into the game that led to the poor
first half performance?

Speaker 24 (02:00:43):
No, I don't think so. I think we were clear on.

Speaker 26 (02:00:46):
How we went, but we will obviously look back and
see if there's anything we could have done differently. But
that's a conversation with the leadership group, the coaches and
trainers around.

Speaker 24 (02:01:02):
Could we have done anything differently for what happened.

Speaker 26 (02:01:07):
So we'll definitely review it everyone, the players will review
their performance and start will revealed as well. So yeah,
I felt we prepared really good for the week off
the back of you know, some good signs against Australia
and looked at where we needed to improve.

Speaker 24 (02:01:26):
And I thought an area where we did improve when.

Speaker 26 (02:01:28):
We got some footy a good field position was our
attack you know that was clinking the last week, but
without our attack board for.

Speaker 24 (02:01:38):
Pairly smooth when we moved the ball, you know. And
the first start was just we got nothing. We got
went down there one score and the other time we
come off an era.

Speaker 3 (02:01:47):
That is the voice of Stacy jones kiwis coach. So
Australia will play Tonga in the Cup final. That's next
Sunday at eight twenty New Zealand time. That match will
be in Sydney, New Zealand. Now wait the winner of
the Bowl, which is the Tier two competition, they'll play
promotion relegation against whoever. That is five parts six in

(02:02:07):
Sydney next Sunday and as far as our Kiwi Ferns
are concerned. They're in action today in their Pacific Championship
five to four, so about an hour or so away
from getting underway against the Popua New Guinea Orchids in
Port Moresby. Nine away from three News Talks EB.

Speaker 1 (02:02:25):
The scoop from the track field and the court on
your home of Sport Weekends Sport with Jason Vine us Talks.

Speaker 3 (02:02:32):
NB six to three. Just a final update on these
four trophy matches happening around the place. Auckland chasing two
hundred and forty nine to beat Northern in Hamilton twenty
one for two after four overs, a couple of early
wickets down for the Aces there in the Langioda, the
Central Stags three without loss through two overs chasing two
hundred and five to beat Canterbury. And in Duned and

(02:02:53):
Wellington have lost an early wicket and they're chased for
two hundred and seventy four to beat Otago they are
two for the loss of one in the second over.

Speaker 17 (02:03:01):
There.

Speaker 3 (02:03:02):
That is US on Weekend Sport for today. We are
back tomorrow night on Sports Talk between seven and eight probably,
I would say, having a look ahead to Melbourne Cup
Day on Tuesday. We'll find a way to give us
some Melbourne Cup detail tomorrow night, and anything else that
happens in the next twenty four hours or so we'll
cover off too. To Beverage is on your radio after

(02:03:22):
three o'clock with the Weekend Collective. Huge thanks to Andy
McDonald for producing the show today as always, and thank
you for listening in and taking part of that's what
you decided to do. Well, thanks for just listening. We
appreciate you busy and anytime you spend with us, we
greatly we greatly appreciate that. For an exit song today, well,
I wanted to pay tribute to Jake Brimmer, who scored

(02:03:45):
both goals in Auckland FC's went over Wellington Phoenix yesterday
and the closest I could come was Broom Full of Asher,
the corner Shop hit out of nineteen ninety seven wretch.

Speaker 8 (02:03:59):
No.

Speaker 3 (02:03:59):
I know it is a stretch, but you know, incidentally
it was released about three months before Jake Brumer was born.
So gratulations Jake Brummer and Auckland lift c for you're
one in the daby yesterday We'll go out with Broom
Full of Aship. See to Mark Well Lash by Wow,
Grim Flasher.

Speaker 22 (02:04:20):
By five Wow, Satin and Jack and and and Jack

(02:04:54):
and Jack and.

Speaker 1 (02:05:00):
Help for more from Weekend Sport with Aason Fine. Listen
live to news Talks at B weekends from midday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

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