June 14, 2025 • 21 mins
This week on Piney's rugby panel, Northland rugby commentator Steve Harris and Tasman Mako longtime backer Shane Drummond joined in on a discussion about whether NPC rugby can be fixed - and how to go about doing that.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Grassroots Rugby, Community rugby Provincial rugby. As negotiations continue on
a new broadcast deal between Sky and New Zealand, Rugby
reports this week that TV and Z will come on
board as a free to wear partner. They'll show some
live NPC games on their streaming platform TVNZ Plus from
next year onwards. Now, this would appear to be a
(00:33):
massive win for the provincial game. It's also, though, as
I said before, opened a wider discussion about the structure
of the NPC, when and where games should be played,
and what the core role of provincial unions should actually be.
So we've assembled a two man panel, and both men
with strong provincial links and vast experience in the grassroots game.
(00:58):
Shane Drummond out of the Tasman region, longtime supporter of
rugby in that part of the country, as well as
a Highlanders shareholder and board member.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
How are you, Drummy, Good morning, Well, good afternoon, poney.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Good to have you with us. Mate and longtime commentator
and grassroots supporter out of the Northland region, Steve Harris
is here too.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Get a Steve, Yeah, get a pony, and good afternoon
to your listeners.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, good to have you both with us, guys. Let's
start with the free to wear component that's being reported
in the latest broadcast deal in NPC by the sounds
of it will have some of its games shown on
free to wear from next year moments. How big a
win drummy would this be for provincial unions and for
rugby fans.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I think huge, poney, and I think that's why we're
discussing it because obviously opens a grand opportunity for people
that don't have Sky and obviously Sky TV for rugby
full stop is huge because it's obviously a commercial transaction
that's protective and obviously at the same time important to
(02:04):
their viewership as well. So it's one of the delicate
I'm sure negotiations. But yeah, as far as your original
question is what does it do for provincial rugby, it
does lots because there is a lot of people that
don't have it, and from them being able to sit
in there in their households and watch in a provincial
game of foddy without having to pay. No person would
(02:29):
deny that's a win.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I don't suppose you'd deny it to win, Steve, you'd
be pretty happy with US News as well.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Yeah, very much.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
The thing that tv AD does very well it actually
promotes its platforms on its various show and as we know,
there's a lot of stuff that's that's digital out there,
so it's a wonderful opportunity for them as a broadcaster
to actually promote this competition and a period of time
so everybody knows, hey, this is when you're in PC
(02:58):
starts from the first of August through until say the
middle of October. You know, it's pretty much a sprint,
and I think they've actually got to promote this competition
very well.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
All right, well, let's assume then that this is going
to happen, and it will also open up a conversation
about when and where games should be played kickoff times.
Guys from me, are you a fan of afternoon rugby?
Should games be played in the NPC mainly during the day?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, well, obviously when you're asking my personal opinion on that,
Piney and I believe afternoon mid afternoon games would be
a big win as well, and that's probably more for
the kids of the world, to be fair, because obviously
sometimes the seven o'clock at night type games, it probably
disrupts the opportunity for taking kids and families to a game.
(03:50):
And I think that opportunity for your provincial team to
bring as many people there, and you know, you know
my opinion on grassroots rugby, which is enormous, just brings
all those opportunities for people to enjoy that caliber of
footy on their.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, how important, Steve is it to have the ability
for as many kids as possible to go along to
watch live rugby. I mean, we've talked about the freeomware
component which opens doors up, but what about the ability
to make kickoff times friendly enough so as many kids
can watch provincial rugby as possible.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Yeah, listen, one hundred percent. I think some of the
unions themselves, they've got a lot of work to do
in that space. You've got to get your players out
into the communities, schools. I know in our new area
of Northland. I know James Fisher Harris is a very
proud Northland boy from the Warriors, and the Warriors actually
do a lot of work in that particular space. Heading
(04:49):
up to Northland where I'm not going to be too critical,
someone like the Blues, but we hardly have the Blues
up in the northern area. But I do know Northland
as a provincial union, they get a lot of their
players out to the various schools communities. Hey, even if
it's at a cafe helping up with with bakery, bakery
or baking or things of that silk, you know, so
(05:12):
people know who these players are because at the end
of the day, you've got to be seen out there,
all right.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I want to talk about match venues as well, because
you know, there's a suggestion that that Sky and New
Zealand rugby are quite keen to have matches MPC matches,
Fara Palmer Cup matches played at smaller, more intimate venues. Now,
you blokes have both got got pretty good venues for
MPC sides. Tasman playing both Nelson and Blenham drummy Trafalga Park,
(05:38):
Lansdowne Park good venues. But is this a good idea
for the likes of Auckland, Wellington, Otago to move away
from these big, cavernous super rugby stadiums.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, well play like you say. Tasman have got the
coverage with Blena and Nelson with their two parks it's fine,
but you know we've had build up games for Super
Rugby with the Crusaders here and Nelson over at Rugby
Park Nottowaka. Then I don't know if you've experienced the
sort of the turnouts for those, but we've regularly had
(06:12):
between five and ten thousand people at those games and
a good man over there stage used to get behind
and setting up a sort of a country ground. But
the other thing, like you're touching on with the Auckland,
Wellington and the Canterbury type scenarios, the cost factor to
run stadiums and to employ stadiums is again what everyone
(06:33):
would know is on the high end. So being able
to use grassroots rugby type venues to get that real
build up and buy and from your community I think
would be again another big one.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Steve Northland play at Seminof Stadium and funger I how
does that work as a provincial venue?
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Oh, listen, fantastic. A lot of work done in at
the community. I think I can even remember talking to
a couple of seasons back when the Tunny five played
one or two up and up in Kaikhi and that
was well patronize as well. But listen you're very close.
It's one of those grounds that you're very very close
close to the action up in North and we don't
(07:17):
get a lot of big time rugby up that way.
We know we've got Scotland playing New Zealand Maori. The
Blues on the odd occasion have come up north, but
more likely preseason games. So you know, it's really important
just the fact that Northan doesn't get big time rugby.
People love their rugby in the North and they will
rock along to what I there's quality rugby to be played,
(07:39):
even more so if the local side are going well.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Just want to talk about the role of the provincial
union skies. There seems to be, you know, some differences
of opinion up and down the country. Some unions see
their primary goal as producing a winning NPC team and
developing players who can graduate into Super rugby. Others believe
their purposes to run club competitions develop a love for
(08:03):
the game among junior players. Drummy, What is the best
balance to strike for a provincial union between overseeing the
community game and producing a competitive provincial side.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah, well, all those things you've just said are fair
to say, are pretty well right, Piney, But it's such
a difficult one with you know where we are positioned
as a provincial union and as I say, obviously running
classroots rugby and bringing everyone together to be able to
play on sad day, whether it be an under seventeen
(08:37):
or senior team, that's crucial to rugby. But then obviously
a lot of people and if you look at the
Tesman area, you know we've been a success story with
amalgamation which in past some haven't, but being able to
bring Marlborough and Nelson Bays together to if you see
the smile on the kids' faces round Piney in both
areas that you know all those kids want to be
(08:58):
a marker and to have that sort of feeling amongst
the kids that play club rugby or school rugby and
then you know their aspirations to be a Marco from
both areas. That's obviously been a bit of a success
story for us. So I think obviously running our club
foot in some of our competitions that even at senior
(09:21):
rugby involved both Nelson and Marlborough, so we have a
competition that's jointed, but as well as having a competition
that's just the solely Nelson Bays and Marlborough, so we're
probably a little bit different in that space. And then
of course they all want to be Marco and then
after that, of course that gives them and shown in
the past years that the Marco is not just a
(09:44):
developing place where now obviously there's lots of All Blacks
that have come out of the Tasman area in the
last ten years, and I mean a lot, whereas in
previous years we had very few. So I think we're
doing it well engaging with club. But then obviously those
kids as spiring to me Marco and then going on
to be Super Slash All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
What about for you, Steve in the in the Northland region,
where do you believe the priority should be for the
for the Northland Union in terms of the grassroots staff
but also you know a competitive NPC side.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
As we know Pine north Lands are very vast area.
You know some areas children, kids that are involved in
HP or high performance which is based on fang A.
You're traveling from Kaitaia, it's it's a four hour round
trip before the before the rubber hits even hits the road.
So talent identification is a huge thing. We've got something
like I do a bit of talent identification for north
(10:42):
and down here in Auckland, and we've got something like
about fifty one kids playing in the Auckland region and
various second secondary schools down here, so I keep an
eye on those kids that are playing down here as well.
I went to watch Brong Row Boys play Messy yesterday
and there's some good kids running around in that competition.
So that talent talent identification space is a real key component,
(11:07):
and it's about sometimes just keeping in touch talking to
these players, players' parents, finding out where they where they
want to go with their with their various situation academically wise,
but also you want them, you know, as previously said
before by Shane, you want these people. These kids to
be tunny want to play for the for the Tunny Far,
(11:30):
so you've actually got to track them. The other important
thing is is your club rugby component, keeping players informed
where they sit in the pecking order and make making
sure that they've got a clear pathway to become tunny
FA players and once they make Tunny Far or there's
that opportunity to become professional players, make the Blues, et cetera.
(11:55):
So there's a lot of work to be done in
that space.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yep, saying with you on that, Steve, what about a
guy you know or a girl? What about somebody who
just wants to play some club rugby, doesn't have any
aspirations to be a professional, doesn't probably any aspirations to
be in the tunny far side. What about someone who
just wants to play club rugby.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Oh, we've still got a lot around there. We've actually
recently last year I think it was a gun Welsh
but who played three hundred the three hundred club games
for Wellsword last year over a span of about fifteen
years or so. Yeah, listen, there just as important as
the as the youngsters that you're looking at, because you
(12:32):
want those particular players wants to be the finished of
their career to actually contribute to the club as well.
Because once again that's a that's another conversation its own
in and around volunteers and the club. I know that
I've had to go back to my own club here
in Auckland, even though I'm an Auseland boy, I'm based
based in Auckland. I've gone back to my local club
(12:54):
just to help out, just simply because the lack of
volunteers so that's a real important component as well. And
if I think clubs have got to also change their outlook.
It's got to be like a commun any hub. I
think gone are the days where that's the place that
you're basically going to have a drink at the end
of the game. It's got to be a little bit
more more and more involved, where you have families involved.
(13:18):
It's the place place to hang out. Your kids are
playing there, your parents are down there supporting the kids
and the club as well.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Just want to finish with with what the MPC might
look like, you know, in the in the short to
medium term. I'll start with you on this one, drumming
what what is the ideal structure of the NPC and
what should it look like to be most effective within
the New Zealand rugby landscape.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, well, if you look over the last few years,
finally there's been the idea of splitting and top tier,
bottom tier and all those things. But as recent as yesterday,
and this is a hard case that we're talking about
the northern Tasman area. I was talking to a couple
of key rugby guys yesterday telling me how strong at
(14:06):
North and look to be this year and their NPC side.
What I'm probably alluding to here and something when Tasman started,
of course we struggled. When I say struggled, weren't as
competitive as we are now, but that's growth and opportunities
for different players at different places to be recruited and
be getting game time and then showing they're where. So
(14:27):
I think a little bit like the Super Rugby this year,
which every team and if you look at you know
the Highlander is having the record of losing the most
games within Zealand, so that tells you the bottom team
are still extremely competitive and that's good. When you go
into a game not knowing the winner, and I see
the tob odds for this weekend Super Final was a
(14:48):
dollar ninety each, Well, that tells you they can't pick
the winner before they start that game. So I just
think that the competitiveness of most of these NPC teams
this year I see, has been extremely strong. So I
don't think that you could sit there and say that
you could pick the winning team out of NPC and
who would be the bottom. That's the competition that you
(15:08):
do want. Whereas obviously that they've been looking in the
past of tearing having the top top eight type scenario,
which I'm not strong believer of because you know, when
it comes to Tasman or the likes to have Auckland,
Wellington and Canterbury coming to our town is great again
for our kids and for rugby. So I don't think
(15:30):
it's that broken currently as the depth of most teams
has got a lot better because some of these top
players are now moving around if they don't get the
game time that they would like, which strengthens some of
the teams like Tasman and Norton too. You're talking to now, what's.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Your assessment, Steve. Do you believe that the NPC for
the most part is is for purpose or does it
need tweaking.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Oh? I think it's very fit for purpose because if
you look at the number of players that have it's
a pathway. It's a pathway to super rugby. It's a
pathway too. It's always they just to use the examples
Kidle quality Metis who played for White White Cutle pretty
much last year and we're all going wow, and before
you know it is in the in the in the
New Zealand sevens. It's still you still get a lot
(16:16):
of unpolished gems that come from club rugby into n PC.
But I agree with showing before about that competitiveness. That
is a real key component as well. I know there's
probably some other bigger unions that sit on resources. I
know probably the Auckland Cops a bit of criticism, but
(16:37):
the reality is they do farm a lot of players
out to to other regions. And I've got to say
that the Shane if he, if he's listening, I know
our teasmen are playing up at Norfold this year, so
we might have to have a chocolate fish on that
on that on that particular game as well. Listen, as
(16:58):
long as we've got a competitive competition that we can
get by and from the supporters, because that's what gets
people like people will always take notice. I could think
back to last year when I think Southland beat North
Harbor and I was just sitting there marveling affect, even
though I've got a lot of friends in the North
Harbor Rugby Union. And that's what you know, that's what
(17:19):
our provincial rugby is all about. Sometimes when you sort
of thin think outside the square or one of the
big dogs gets gets knocked over. I think Pasiman's one
of the big dogs at the moment now, but you
know that that's what we want and we want that
competitive spirit, we want that edge. You can see it
coming through social network at the moment with the Super
(17:42):
Rugby competition. Boy, you've got a pick up with some
of the lot of the comments we're seeing on the
social social network. But that's what we need. That's what
our game needs, it needs that. That's you know, a
little bit of competitiveness from the not just rotten of
the players, I think the supporters as well as support bases.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Good on you guys. Hey, well we'll put a ring
around that game. Northland v. Tasman Saturday, August sixteenth. The
chocolate fish has been has been put on the line.
Steve Harris, Shan Drummon, thank you so much for your
time this afternoon chatting Provincial Rugby. Some thought provoking stuff
from the both of you. All the best for for
your your patches, for your respective NPC seasons ahead twelve
(18:22):
twenty nine, your ideas now, anything you want to pick
up on there from the discussion with Steve and with
Shane and what is in general terms the best way
forward for the NPC O eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
Venue choice is an obvious one for me. No more
games in cavernous stadiums like Eden Park, like sky Stadium,
(18:46):
FMG Hamilton, Forsyth Bar Dunedin, the supergrounds. Basically, when you're
only getting one or two thousand people along to venues
of that size, it is a terrible look and more importantly,
it's a huge cost to the unions to hire venues
of that size, so smaller, more intimate venues are re
must and Wellington have already made the very wise decision
(19:09):
that they won't play any rugby at sky Stadium this
NPC season. They're taking their games out to Pottydoor Park,
where it is far more fit for purpose for an
NPC game. Game times now the broadcaster in this case
Sky dictate kickoff times as they should, and the majority
of Super rugby games will always be played at night.
(19:31):
But if we're having a revamp in the broadcast of NPC,
then we should also play games at times which are
most convenient for fans to turn up. That means as
much afternoon rugby as possible, and venue choice might well
dictate that. Because a lot of the smaller grounds don't
have lights which are adequate for broadcasting games at night,
(19:52):
but if you want people to turn up, play games
at times which are friendly to them. The Auckland FC
example this year, was a blueprint right home games at
five o'clock. It allowed a wide range of fans to
come along. For NPC rugby, let's have as many after
kickoffs as we can. And if we just zoom out
from the MPC, what should the role of provincial unions
(20:14):
actually be. High performance is important, yes, there has to
be a pathway to aspire to and as Shane and
Steve said, into the muck or into the tunnyfah and
then on towards super rugby. But the base of the
pyramid is surely the more important priority. We talk about
the great New Zealand rugby production line, and yes that
(20:35):
is certainly still a thing, but at a time when
player numbers are dwindling in the men's game in particular,
there has to be a focus on attracting and retaining
young boys and girls into the game of rugby in
the first place, and that begins at junior level and
then retaining those players after they finish high school. So
(20:55):
the base of the pyramid has to be a focus,
has to be for provincial unions as well, it can't
just be about high performance.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
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from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Grassroots Rugby, Community rugby Provincial rugby. As negotiations continue on
a new broadcast deal between Sky and New Zealand, Rugby
reports this week that TV and Z will come on
board as a free to wear partner. They'll show some
live NPC games on their streaming platform TVNZ Plus from
next year onwards. Now, this would appear to be a
(00:33):
massive win for the provincial game. It's also, though, as
I said before, opened a wider discussion about the structure
of the NPC, when and where games should be played,
and what the core role of provincial unions should actually be.
So we've assembled a two man panel, and both men
with strong provincial links and vast experience in the grassroots game.
(00:58):
Shane Drummond out of the Tasman region, longtime supporter of
rugby in that part of the country, as well as
a Highlanders shareholder and board member.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
How are you, Drummy, Good morning, Well, good afternoon, poney.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Good to have you with us. Mate and longtime commentator
and grassroots supporter out of the Northland region, Steve Harris
is here too.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Get a Steve, Yeah, get a pony, and good afternoon
to your listeners.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, good to have you both with us, guys. Let's
start with the free to wear component that's being reported
in the latest broadcast deal in NPC by the sounds
of it will have some of its games shown on
free to wear from next year moments. How big a
win drummy would this be for provincial unions and for
rugby fans.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I think huge, poney, and I think that's why we're
discussing it because obviously opens a grand opportunity for people
that don't have Sky and obviously Sky TV for rugby
full stop is huge because it's obviously a commercial transaction
that's protective and obviously at the same time important to
(02:04):
their viewership as well. So it's one of the delicate
I'm sure negotiations. But yeah, as far as your original
question is what does it do for provincial rugby, it
does lots because there is a lot of people that
don't have it, and from them being able to sit
in there in their households and watch in a provincial
game of foddy without having to pay. No person would
(02:29):
deny that's a win.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I don't suppose you'd deny it to win, Steve, you'd
be pretty happy with US News as well.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Yeah, very much.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
The thing that tv AD does very well it actually
promotes its platforms on its various show and as we know,
there's a lot of stuff that's that's digital out there,
so it's a wonderful opportunity for them as a broadcaster
to actually promote this competition and a period of time
so everybody knows, hey, this is when you're in PC
(02:58):
starts from the first of August through until say the
middle of October. You know, it's pretty much a sprint,
and I think they've actually got to promote this competition
very well.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
All right, well, let's assume then that this is going
to happen, and it will also open up a conversation
about when and where games should be played kickoff times.
Guys from me, are you a fan of afternoon rugby?
Should games be played in the NPC mainly during the day?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, well, obviously when you're asking my personal opinion on that,
Piney and I believe afternoon mid afternoon games would be
a big win as well, and that's probably more for
the kids of the world, to be fair, because obviously
sometimes the seven o'clock at night type games, it probably
disrupts the opportunity for taking kids and families to a game.
(03:50):
And I think that opportunity for your provincial team to
bring as many people there, and you know, you know
my opinion on grassroots rugby, which is enormous, just brings
all those opportunities for people to enjoy that caliber of
footy on their.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, how important, Steve is it to have the ability
for as many kids as possible to go along to
watch live rugby. I mean, we've talked about the freeomware
component which opens doors up, but what about the ability
to make kickoff times friendly enough so as many kids
can watch provincial rugby as possible.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Yeah, listen, one hundred percent. I think some of the
unions themselves, they've got a lot of work to do
in that space. You've got to get your players out
into the communities, schools. I know in our new area
of Northland. I know James Fisher Harris is a very
proud Northland boy from the Warriors, and the Warriors actually
do a lot of work in that particular space. Heading
(04:49):
up to Northland where I'm not going to be too critical,
someone like the Blues, but we hardly have the Blues
up in the northern area. But I do know Northland
as a provincial union, they get a lot of their
players out to the various schools communities. Hey, even if
it's at a cafe helping up with with bakery, bakery
or baking or things of that silk, you know, so
(05:12):
people know who these players are because at the end
of the day, you've got to be seen out there,
all right.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I want to talk about match venues as well, because
you know, there's a suggestion that that Sky and New
Zealand rugby are quite keen to have matches MPC matches,
Fara Palmer Cup matches played at smaller, more intimate venues. Now,
you blokes have both got got pretty good venues for
MPC sides. Tasman playing both Nelson and Blenham drummy Trafalga Park,
(05:38):
Lansdowne Park good venues. But is this a good idea
for the likes of Auckland, Wellington, Otago to move away
from these big, cavernous super rugby stadiums.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, well play like you say. Tasman have got the
coverage with Blena and Nelson with their two parks it's fine,
but you know we've had build up games for Super
Rugby with the Crusaders here and Nelson over at Rugby
Park Nottowaka. Then I don't know if you've experienced the
sort of the turnouts for those, but we've regularly had
(06:12):
between five and ten thousand people at those games and
a good man over there stage used to get behind
and setting up a sort of a country ground. But
the other thing, like you're touching on with the Auckland,
Wellington and the Canterbury type scenarios, the cost factor to
run stadiums and to employ stadiums is again what everyone
(06:33):
would know is on the high end. So being able
to use grassroots rugby type venues to get that real
build up and buy and from your community I think
would be again another big one.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Steve Northland play at Seminof Stadium and funger I how
does that work as a provincial venue?
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Oh, listen, fantastic. A lot of work done in at
the community. I think I can even remember talking to
a couple of seasons back when the Tunny five played
one or two up and up in Kaikhi and that
was well patronize as well. But listen you're very close.
It's one of those grounds that you're very very close
close to the action up in North and we don't
(07:17):
get a lot of big time rugby up that way.
We know we've got Scotland playing New Zealand Maori. The
Blues on the odd occasion have come up north, but
more likely preseason games. So you know, it's really important
just the fact that Northan doesn't get big time rugby.
People love their rugby in the North and they will
rock along to what I there's quality rugby to be played,
(07:39):
even more so if the local side are going well.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Just want to talk about the role of the provincial
union skies. There seems to be, you know, some differences
of opinion up and down the country. Some unions see
their primary goal as producing a winning NPC team and
developing players who can graduate into Super rugby. Others believe
their purposes to run club competitions develop a love for
(08:03):
the game among junior players. Drummy, What is the best
balance to strike for a provincial union between overseeing the
community game and producing a competitive provincial side.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah, well, all those things you've just said are fair
to say, are pretty well right, Piney, But it's such
a difficult one with you know where we are positioned
as a provincial union and as I say, obviously running
classroots rugby and bringing everyone together to be able to
play on sad day, whether it be an under seventeen
(08:37):
or senior team, that's crucial to rugby. But then obviously
a lot of people and if you look at the
Tesman area, you know we've been a success story with
amalgamation which in past some haven't, but being able to
bring Marlborough and Nelson Bays together to if you see
the smile on the kids' faces round Piney in both
areas that you know all those kids want to be
(08:58):
a marker and to have that sort of feeling amongst
the kids that play club rugby or school rugby and
then you know their aspirations to be a Marco from
both areas. That's obviously been a bit of a success
story for us. So I think obviously running our club
foot in some of our competitions that even at senior
(09:21):
rugby involved both Nelson and Marlborough, so we have a
competition that's jointed, but as well as having a competition
that's just the solely Nelson Bays and Marlborough, so we're
probably a little bit different in that space. And then
of course they all want to be Marco and then
after that, of course that gives them and shown in
the past years that the Marco is not just a
(09:44):
developing place where now obviously there's lots of All Blacks
that have come out of the Tasman area in the
last ten years, and I mean a lot, whereas in
previous years we had very few. So I think we're
doing it well engaging with club. But then obviously those
kids as spiring to me Marco and then going on
to be Super Slash All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
What about for you, Steve in the in the Northland region,
where do you believe the priority should be for the
for the Northland Union in terms of the grassroots staff
but also you know a competitive NPC side.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
As we know Pine north Lands are very vast area.
You know some areas children, kids that are involved in
HP or high performance which is based on fang A.
You're traveling from Kaitaia, it's it's a four hour round
trip before the before the rubber hits even hits the road.
So talent identification is a huge thing. We've got something
like I do a bit of talent identification for north
(10:42):
and down here in Auckland, and we've got something like
about fifty one kids playing in the Auckland region and
various second secondary schools down here, so I keep an
eye on those kids that are playing down here as well.
I went to watch Brong Row Boys play Messy yesterday
and there's some good kids running around in that competition.
So that talent talent identification space is a real key component,
(11:07):
and it's about sometimes just keeping in touch talking to
these players, players' parents, finding out where they where they
want to go with their with their various situation academically wise,
but also you want them, you know, as previously said
before by Shane, you want these people. These kids to
be tunny want to play for the for the Tunny Far,
(11:30):
so you've actually got to track them. The other important
thing is is your club rugby component, keeping players informed
where they sit in the pecking order and make making
sure that they've got a clear pathway to become tunny
FA players and once they make Tunny Far or there's
that opportunity to become professional players, make the Blues, et cetera.
(11:55):
So there's a lot of work to be done in
that space.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yep, saying with you on that, Steve, what about a
guy you know or a girl? What about somebody who
just wants to play some club rugby, doesn't have any
aspirations to be a professional, doesn't probably any aspirations to
be in the tunny far side. What about someone who
just wants to play club rugby.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Oh, we've still got a lot around there. We've actually
recently last year I think it was a gun Welsh
but who played three hundred the three hundred club games
for Wellsword last year over a span of about fifteen
years or so. Yeah, listen, there just as important as
the as the youngsters that you're looking at, because you
(12:32):
want those particular players wants to be the finished of
their career to actually contribute to the club as well.
Because once again that's a that's another conversation its own
in and around volunteers and the club. I know that
I've had to go back to my own club here
in Auckland, even though I'm an Auseland boy, I'm based
based in Auckland. I've gone back to my local club
(12:54):
just to help out, just simply because the lack of
volunteers so that's a real important component as well. And
if I think clubs have got to also change their outlook.
It's got to be like a commun any hub. I
think gone are the days where that's the place that
you're basically going to have a drink at the end
of the game. It's got to be a little bit
more more and more involved, where you have families involved.
(13:18):
It's the place place to hang out. Your kids are
playing there, your parents are down there supporting the kids
and the club as well.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Just want to finish with with what the MPC might
look like, you know, in the in the short to
medium term. I'll start with you on this one, drumming
what what is the ideal structure of the NPC and
what should it look like to be most effective within
the New Zealand rugby landscape.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, well, if you look over the last few years,
finally there's been the idea of splitting and top tier,
bottom tier and all those things. But as recent as yesterday,
and this is a hard case that we're talking about
the northern Tasman area. I was talking to a couple
of key rugby guys yesterday telling me how strong at
(14:06):
North and look to be this year and their NPC side.
What I'm probably alluding to here and something when Tasman started,
of course we struggled. When I say struggled, weren't as
competitive as we are now, but that's growth and opportunities
for different players at different places to be recruited and
be getting game time and then showing they're where. So
(14:27):
I think a little bit like the Super Rugby this year,
which every team and if you look at you know
the Highlander is having the record of losing the most
games within Zealand, so that tells you the bottom team
are still extremely competitive and that's good. When you go
into a game not knowing the winner, and I see
the tob odds for this weekend Super Final was a
(14:48):
dollar ninety each, Well, that tells you they can't pick
the winner before they start that game. So I just
think that the competitiveness of most of these NPC teams
this year I see, has been extremely strong. So I
don't think that you could sit there and say that
you could pick the winning team out of NPC and
who would be the bottom. That's the competition that you
(15:08):
do want. Whereas obviously that they've been looking in the
past of tearing having the top top eight type scenario,
which I'm not strong believer of because you know, when
it comes to Tasman or the likes to have Auckland,
Wellington and Canterbury coming to our town is great again
for our kids and for rugby. So I don't think
(15:30):
it's that broken currently as the depth of most teams
has got a lot better because some of these top
players are now moving around if they don't get the
game time that they would like, which strengthens some of
the teams like Tasman and Norton too. You're talking to now, what's.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Your assessment, Steve. Do you believe that the NPC for
the most part is is for purpose or does it
need tweaking.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Oh? I think it's very fit for purpose because if
you look at the number of players that have it's
a pathway. It's a pathway to super rugby. It's a
pathway too. It's always they just to use the examples
Kidle quality Metis who played for White White Cutle pretty
much last year and we're all going wow, and before
you know it is in the in the in the
New Zealand sevens. It's still you still get a lot
(16:16):
of unpolished gems that come from club rugby into n PC.
But I agree with showing before about that competitiveness. That
is a real key component as well. I know there's
probably some other bigger unions that sit on resources. I
know probably the Auckland Cops a bit of criticism, but
(16:37):
the reality is they do farm a lot of players
out to to other regions. And I've got to say
that the Shane if he, if he's listening, I know
our teasmen are playing up at Norfold this year, so
we might have to have a chocolate fish on that
on that on that particular game as well. Listen, as
(16:58):
long as we've got a competitive competition that we can
get by and from the supporters, because that's what gets
people like people will always take notice. I could think
back to last year when I think Southland beat North
Harbor and I was just sitting there marveling affect, even
though I've got a lot of friends in the North
Harbor Rugby Union. And that's what you know, that's what
(17:19):
our provincial rugby is all about. Sometimes when you sort
of thin think outside the square or one of the
big dogs gets gets knocked over. I think Pasiman's one
of the big dogs at the moment now, but you
know that that's what we want and we want that
competitive spirit, we want that edge. You can see it
coming through social network at the moment with the Super
(17:42):
Rugby competition. Boy, you've got a pick up with some
of the lot of the comments we're seeing on the
social social network. But that's what we need. That's what
our game needs, it needs that. That's you know, a
little bit of competitiveness from the not just rotten of
the players, I think the supporters as well as support bases.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Good on you guys. Hey, well we'll put a ring
around that game. Northland v. Tasman Saturday, August sixteenth. The
chocolate fish has been has been put on the line.
Steve Harris, Shan Drummon, thank you so much for your
time this afternoon chatting Provincial Rugby. Some thought provoking stuff
from the both of you. All the best for for
your your patches, for your respective NPC seasons ahead twelve
(18:22):
twenty nine, your ideas now, anything you want to pick
up on there from the discussion with Steve and with
Shane and what is in general terms the best way
forward for the NPC O eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
Venue choice is an obvious one for me. No more
games in cavernous stadiums like Eden Park, like sky Stadium,
(18:46):
FMG Hamilton, Forsyth Bar Dunedin, the supergrounds. Basically, when you're
only getting one or two thousand people along to venues
of that size, it is a terrible look and more importantly,
it's a huge cost to the unions to hire venues
of that size, so smaller, more intimate venues are re
must and Wellington have already made the very wise decision
(19:09):
that they won't play any rugby at sky Stadium this
NPC season. They're taking their games out to Pottydoor Park,
where it is far more fit for purpose for an
NPC game. Game times now the broadcaster in this case
Sky dictate kickoff times as they should, and the majority
of Super rugby games will always be played at night.
(19:31):
But if we're having a revamp in the broadcast of NPC,
then we should also play games at times which are
most convenient for fans to turn up. That means as
much afternoon rugby as possible, and venue choice might well
dictate that. Because a lot of the smaller grounds don't
have lights which are adequate for broadcasting games at night,
(19:52):
but if you want people to turn up, play games
at times which are friendly to them. The Auckland FC
example this year, was a blueprint right home games at
five o'clock. It allowed a wide range of fans to
come along. For NPC rugby, let's have as many after
kickoffs as we can. And if we just zoom out
from the MPC, what should the role of provincial unions
(20:14):
actually be. High performance is important, yes, there has to
be a pathway to aspire to and as Shane and
Steve said, into the muck or into the tunnyfah and
then on towards super rugby. But the base of the
pyramid is surely the more important priority. We talk about
the great New Zealand rugby production line, and yes that
(20:35):
is certainly still a thing, but at a time when
player numbers are dwindling in the men's game in particular,
there has to be a focus on attracting and retaining
young boys and girls into the game of rugby in
the first place, and that begins at junior level and
then retaining those players after they finish high school. So
(20:55):
the base of the pyramid has to be a focus,
has to be for provincial unions as well, it can't
just be about high performance.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to news talks at B weekends from midday, or follow
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