November 2, 2024 • 13 mins
The last couple weeks have been significant in the world of New Zealand sport - with plenty of Kiwi athletes dominating on the world stage.
The White Ferns stunned fans with their T20 World Cup victory, the Black Caps beat India on the team's home soil for the first time in decades, Team New Zealand held on to the America's Cup and the Silver Ferns won the Constellation Cup.
Coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith joined Piney to discuss New Zealand's run of sporting victories.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from News talk EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Last few weeks have seen a period of terrific success
for Kiwis on the international sporting states. The White Ferns
of course T twenty World champions, the Black Caps winning
a series in India for the first time, Team New
Zealand retaining the America's Cup, Liam Lawson getting his full
time Formula one drive, the Silver Ferns winning the Constellation Cup,
(00:32):
triathlet Hayden wild winning events in the World Series, New
Zealand claiming a record medal haul at the Paris Olympics,
and lots more. One of our regular contributors on the
show is coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith. He's worked with New
Zealand swimming, netball, rugby, triathlon, rugby league, rowing and the
Canoe Kayak Organization and has been to and worked in
(00:54):
sport in Southland, Otago, Canterbury, Wellington, Tatanhaki, Hamilton, Hawks, Bay Gisbon, Auckland, Northland,
Bay of Plenty and topor so he's pretty well placed
to analyze the success and put it and to context
for us.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Wayne.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
First of all are their qualities which are uniquely key
with you're certainly common to New Zealanders, which contribute to
our sporting success.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I think about that a lot, because you know, part
of my job is as a sports consultant or as
an advisor, is to try and understand the why. So
anyone can look at the white and say, wow, look
this is impressive, but you start to dig in and say,
how did they do it? But why is this happening?
It can be sometimes you've got one great coach or
(01:43):
a set of circumstances that have led to a situation
where you've got an edgy in something. But the consistency
with which New Zealand has just managed to keep producing
great athletes, great coaches, great teams, men and women, different ages,
different sports, Paris sport, Olympic sport, the range has been incredible.
(02:04):
So you've got to start really into why. And look,
he may be listening. I can't remember the guy's name,
but I was at a conference in New Zealand in
Auckland a long time ago that' sport in New Zealand
had put on and they kicked off with a guy
who was a New Zealand cultural expert who explained the
(02:25):
way the Keywis do what they do. And he said,
when you think about us, he said, remember that on
the world stage, our three most prominent symbols are a
black jumper so no color if you like, a flightless,
quiet bird that hangs around under bushes, and the underside
of a fern. And he said, and I was trying
(02:47):
to figure ou where he was going with this point,
and he said, it's because we just get on with
it quietly, unassuming. We just do what we do and
we're not looking for accolades. We don't talk ourselves up.
And he talked about how your symbols, your national symbols,
very much reflect that, and every key we that I
spoke to at that conference said, yes, this guy gets it.
(03:10):
And I think that's why it's that's the contrast, say,
between New Zealand and Australia, New Zealand and the United States,
that we're very much the opposite. We like to talk
it up. There's a lot of bluster, there's a lot
of trash talking, and there's all that sort of stuff.
Can we just get on with it? And I think
it's again that you've managed to do some remarkable things
(03:33):
without having to sing and dance and tell the world
about it. You just get on with it.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I guess the flip side of that, and you would
have picked up on this, I'm sure. Is the accusation
that has often aimed at us, and the comparison has
made with Australians on this is that we're not hard
nosed enough, we're not winners, We're just happy to participate.
But both things can be true, can't they.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Of course they can. I think there was. There was
a book written by great Australian historian called Jeffrey Blainey
called The Tyranny of Distance, and in it he argued
that who Australia was was a product of two things.
Was its history up to the mid nineteen hundreds was
(04:19):
largely a product of the influence of English colonization, and
then it's become very very multic contribution and impact of
indigenous Australians. But he said that was a big factor.
But he said one of the biggest reasons why we
are who we are was the tyranny of distance. Was
(04:41):
we couldn't just pop across the border and have interactions
with another country. Wasn't easy to get around and we
had to develop our own way of doing things, which
was both a strength and a weakness. And I think
New Zealand is that even more so. I think that
you know, it's easy to say, well, we're not like
France and Germany and we can't do it like the
United States and we don't have the advantages that Europeans
(05:04):
or the But you know what, I think that's one
of the key reasons why you say great is because
you've got to come up with your own way of
doing things. You can go, well, we're at the bottom
of the world or a long way from and it
costs us a bloody fortune to get and compete. Sure,
you could argue that those are the things that are
potential disadvantages, or you get on with it and say,
(05:28):
we're going to find a way to win that's genuinely
uniquely key. We We're going to find a way to
win that works for us where we are. And look,
I think not as much as it used to be, Pint.
It used to be that we could almost do what
I used to call hit and run missions, which was
to we would come up with some ideas and some
(05:50):
unique ways of doing things in this part of the
world and then head up north compete against Americans, the Canadians,
the Brits, the Europeans, and get a bit of an
edge on them because we had to come up with
ideas and things and ways of doing things that maybe
they weren't. Now the internet means everybody knows what everybody knows,
and you can get the same information and the ideas
(06:12):
that's walked around. But I think it's still very much
the case is that where Kiwis are brilliant is that
they're doing things, saying things, performing in uniquely Kiwi ways.
So I think you can argue both ways, and you know,
I think some of the dumb things that you could do.
(06:34):
So for example, if you're in in Kirwe sport is
so we want to be more like the Americans, Let's
bring an American coach in and let's become like there.
It's not going to work. I think the great success
story is Kiwis are great because they do things at
Kiwi Way. Love it. Now.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
The taranny of distance is interesting, but what about our
size way and only five million of us over here?
Do you think that also feeds into our success? A
bit of a little brother mentality, we want to we'll
show you kind of.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Thing degree and look, I think of other countries around
the world who've got small populations who've managed to do
remarkable things. So you think of places like Croatia in
football they've done remarkably well. And places like Norway for example,
small population, relatively isolated, not the best weather. You wouldn't
(07:26):
go there for a holiday if you was looking for sunshine.
But with a small population. If you look at their
results in winter sport, particularly in the Winter Games, they've
been exceptional. But do you know even there if you
were to a list and you've just rattled off a handful,
But if you add to that swimming, going back to
ninety six with loader, if you go back to the
(07:48):
great great track and field distance runners that came through
the Lidiard program fifties and sixties, if you go back
that long and you look at Norway and you look
at Croats and other places with relatively small populations and
a little isolated you go, yeah, well they've done that.
But where are there runners that try Athletes, their golf players,
(08:09):
their canoe kayakers, the netballers, their rugby league players. The
range of sport that New Zealand has been successful in
is absolutely unparalleled. And if you do the the world championship,
world record, Olympic medal per head of population. I think
that per capita measuring brilliant. That it's mind blowing. And
(08:32):
you know, it's interesting that this thing that sporting leaders do,
which we call a junket. After every Olympics, they head
off and they go, well, US won the medal count,
or China won the medal count, or England did pretty
good in the medal count. Let's go and do some
benchmarking and have a look and see what they're doing.
And for the life of me, I don't understand, particularly
(08:55):
why smaller nations don't come to New Zealand to see
what you're doing, because if they truly understood the scope
and the range of sports that you've been six tssful in,
their heads would explode. But they chase the big shiny
objects that are really obvious and out there telling everybody
how good they are, and again made the key. We
(09:16):
just get on with it. It is a really unique
sporting situation on the world stage, and I'm surprised there's
not more people marching to your doors trying to figure
out what you've been doing.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So when you think about the qualities of a Kiwi
sports person, and let's move it to the elite level.
How do your best as a coach harnessed that? How
do you make the most ring the most out of
the qualities You've talked about as being quintessentially Kiwi.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Well, I'm a big believer in a phrase that I
use called that ultimately, you play like your place and
you and I have talked about this some time back.
But Brazilians are not taught to play football. They're taught
to play football, but they do it that way because
they're Brazilians and twenty four hours a day they eat,
they drink, they sleep, they talk, their faith, their geography,
(10:10):
their family structure, their culture, everything about them is Brazilian.
That's reflected in the way that they play football. Germans
play football like Germans, Australians play cricket like Australia. The
teams that have been very, very successful on a sustained basis,
that's who we are. We know what it looks like
and we're doing it our unique way. Now, if you're coaching,
(10:34):
if someone said, way, Moe, once you come and coach
the key Wee team, I wouldn't even mention Australia as
much as I'm a proud Australian, I love it. I
wouldn't even dream of saying let's do it in an
Australian way or in New Zilla or a good way
Canadian way. I would say step one is to figure
out what does it look like in training day to
(10:55):
day to do it at key we way and look
at that. So you know, I sit back as the Australian,
I'd say, how to describe cuey culture, good people, friendly,
family focused of course, great unity in their culture with
the married people and the rest of the population in
New Zealand. Resilient, really tough, no excuses about the weather,
(11:19):
just they deal with it and get on with it.
You know, I would go, well, then that's the way
I'm going to coach them. Would not end for a
life of me. Come in and say, hey, guys, you
know you can be better. We're going to train like
the Americans, or we're going to copy the English system
and we're going to do it does not work. The
smartest thing you do as a coaches go. I'm dealing
(11:40):
with a group of athletes who are tough, resilient, really
openly caring, humble. There's no doubt about that respectful. Just
want to be left alone to get on with it.
Don't need to be motivated and yell that screen up
because that's not who they are. Just keep going back,
black jumper, underside of the fern, flightless bird, those concepts,
(12:01):
and that's the way that you coach them. They just
get on with it. And I think that's a beautiful
quot and to it has to be.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
It has to be the secret mate because the only
consistent thing over the last fifty or sixty years. Technology
has changed, transports changed, our views on nutrition and training,
all those things have changed. The one consistent factor in
the Kiwi sporting success story since the nineteen fifties has
been that you're bloody Kiwei's that you're doing it the
(12:33):
way you do it because of who you are and
where you are.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And yeah, it's interesting that that Keywi's. Quite often I
think I'll be in a group and coaches will say, oh, yeah,
but you know, we haven't got this and we can't
do I would be if I had a new Zooalan passport,
knowing what you've achieved, you know, you'd be walking around
fill in ten foot tall.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Well, you're an honorary key Wee. You're always welcome over
here as you know, fascinating insights as always, mate, Thanks
so much. Let's hope that the key we success continues
and we'll catch up with you again sometime soon.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Always a pleasure, my friend.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Thanks Wayne, Wayne Goldsmith WG coaching dot commas his website
if you'd like to find out more about Wayne and
the work that he does, or he can just tune
in once every month or so when he joins us
with as many Pearls.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Of Wisdoms for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine.
Listen live to news talks ed b weekends from midday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from News talk EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Last few weeks have seen a period of terrific success
for Kiwis on the international sporting states. The White Ferns
of course T twenty World champions, the Black Caps winning
a series in India for the first time, Team New
Zealand retaining the America's Cup, Liam Lawson getting his full
time Formula one drive, the Silver Ferns winning the Constellation Cup,
(00:32):
triathlet Hayden wild winning events in the World Series, New
Zealand claiming a record medal haul at the Paris Olympics,
and lots more. One of our regular contributors on the
show is coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith. He's worked with New
Zealand swimming, netball, rugby, triathlon, rugby league, rowing and the
Canoe Kayak Organization and has been to and worked in
(00:54):
sport in Southland, Otago, Canterbury, Wellington, Tatanhaki, Hamilton, Hawks, Bay Gisbon, Auckland, Northland,
Bay of Plenty and topor so he's pretty well placed
to analyze the success and put it and to context
for us.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Wayne.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
First of all are their qualities which are uniquely key
with you're certainly common to New Zealanders, which contribute to
our sporting success.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I think about that a lot, because you know, part
of my job is as a sports consultant or as
an advisor, is to try and understand the why. So
anyone can look at the white and say, wow, look
this is impressive, but you start to dig in and say,
how did they do it? But why is this happening?
It can be sometimes you've got one great coach or
(01:43):
a set of circumstances that have led to a situation
where you've got an edgy in something. But the consistency
with which New Zealand has just managed to keep producing
great athletes, great coaches, great teams, men and women, different ages,
different sports, Paris sport, Olympic sport, the range has been incredible.
(02:04):
So you've got to start really into why. And look,
he may be listening. I can't remember the guy's name,
but I was at a conference in New Zealand in
Auckland a long time ago that' sport in New Zealand
had put on and they kicked off with a guy
who was a New Zealand cultural expert who explained the
(02:25):
way the Keywis do what they do. And he said,
when you think about us, he said, remember that on
the world stage, our three most prominent symbols are a
black jumper so no color if you like, a flightless,
quiet bird that hangs around under bushes, and the underside
of a fern. And he said, and I was trying
(02:47):
to figure ou where he was going with this point,
and he said, it's because we just get on with
it quietly, unassuming. We just do what we do and
we're not looking for accolades. We don't talk ourselves up.
And he talked about how your symbols, your national symbols,
very much reflect that, and every key we that I
spoke to at that conference said, yes, this guy gets it.
(03:10):
And I think that's why it's that's the contrast, say,
between New Zealand and Australia, New Zealand and the United States,
that we're very much the opposite. We like to talk
it up. There's a lot of bluster, there's a lot
of trash talking, and there's all that sort of stuff.
Can we just get on with it? And I think
it's again that you've managed to do some remarkable things
(03:33):
without having to sing and dance and tell the world
about it. You just get on with it.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I guess the flip side of that, and you would
have picked up on this, I'm sure. Is the accusation
that has often aimed at us, and the comparison has
made with Australians on this is that we're not hard
nosed enough, we're not winners, We're just happy to participate.
But both things can be true, can't they.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Of course they can. I think there was. There was
a book written by great Australian historian called Jeffrey Blainey
called The Tyranny of Distance, and in it he argued
that who Australia was was a product of two things.
Was its history up to the mid nineteen hundreds was
(04:19):
largely a product of the influence of English colonization, and
then it's become very very multic contribution and impact of
indigenous Australians. But he said that was a big factor.
But he said one of the biggest reasons why we
are who we are was the tyranny of distance. Was
(04:41):
we couldn't just pop across the border and have interactions
with another country. Wasn't easy to get around and we
had to develop our own way of doing things, which
was both a strength and a weakness. And I think
New Zealand is that even more so. I think that
you know, it's easy to say, well, we're not like
France and Germany and we can't do it like the
United States and we don't have the advantages that Europeans
(05:04):
or the But you know what, I think that's one
of the key reasons why you say great is because
you've got to come up with your own way of
doing things. You can go, well, we're at the bottom
of the world or a long way from and it
costs us a bloody fortune to get and compete. Sure,
you could argue that those are the things that are
potential disadvantages, or you get on with it and say,
(05:28):
we're going to find a way to win that's genuinely
uniquely key. We We're going to find a way to
win that works for us where we are. And look,
I think not as much as it used to be, Pint.
It used to be that we could almost do what
I used to call hit and run missions, which was
to we would come up with some ideas and some
(05:50):
unique ways of doing things in this part of the
world and then head up north compete against Americans, the Canadians,
the Brits, the Europeans, and get a bit of an
edge on them because we had to come up with
ideas and things and ways of doing things that maybe
they weren't. Now the internet means everybody knows what everybody knows,
and you can get the same information and the ideas
(06:12):
that's walked around. But I think it's still very much
the case is that where Kiwis are brilliant is that
they're doing things, saying things, performing in uniquely Kiwi ways.
So I think you can argue both ways, and you know,
I think some of the dumb things that you could do.
(06:34):
So for example, if you're in in Kirwe sport is
so we want to be more like the Americans, Let's
bring an American coach in and let's become like there.
It's not going to work. I think the great success
story is Kiwis are great because they do things at
Kiwi Way. Love it. Now.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
The taranny of distance is interesting, but what about our
size way and only five million of us over here?
Do you think that also feeds into our success? A
bit of a little brother mentality, we want to we'll
show you kind of.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Thing degree and look, I think of other countries around
the world who've got small populations who've managed to do
remarkable things. So you think of places like Croatia in
football they've done remarkably well. And places like Norway for example,
small population, relatively isolated, not the best weather. You wouldn't
(07:26):
go there for a holiday if you was looking for sunshine.
But with a small population. If you look at their
results in winter sport, particularly in the Winter Games, they've
been exceptional. But do you know even there if you
were to a list and you've just rattled off a handful,
But if you add to that swimming, going back to
ninety six with loader, if you go back to the
(07:48):
great great track and field distance runners that came through
the Lidiard program fifties and sixties, if you go back
that long and you look at Norway and you look
at Croats and other places with relatively small populations and
a little isolated you go, yeah, well they've done that.
But where are there runners that try Athletes, their golf players,
(08:09):
their canoe kayakers, the netballers, their rugby league players. The
range of sport that New Zealand has been successful in
is absolutely unparalleled. And if you do the the world championship,
world record, Olympic medal per head of population. I think
that per capita measuring brilliant. That it's mind blowing. And
(08:32):
you know, it's interesting that this thing that sporting leaders do,
which we call a junket. After every Olympics, they head
off and they go, well, US won the medal count,
or China won the medal count, or England did pretty
good in the medal count. Let's go and do some
benchmarking and have a look and see what they're doing.
And for the life of me, I don't understand, particularly
(08:55):
why smaller nations don't come to New Zealand to see
what you're doing, because if they truly understood the scope
and the range of sports that you've been six tssful in,
their heads would explode. But they chase the big shiny
objects that are really obvious and out there telling everybody
how good they are, and again made the key. We
(09:16):
just get on with it. It is a really unique
sporting situation on the world stage, and I'm surprised there's
not more people marching to your doors trying to figure
out what you've been doing.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So when you think about the qualities of a Kiwi
sports person, and let's move it to the elite level.
How do your best as a coach harnessed that? How
do you make the most ring the most out of
the qualities You've talked about as being quintessentially Kiwi.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Well, I'm a big believer in a phrase that I
use called that ultimately, you play like your place and
you and I have talked about this some time back.
But Brazilians are not taught to play football. They're taught
to play football, but they do it that way because
they're Brazilians and twenty four hours a day they eat,
they drink, they sleep, they talk, their faith, their geography,
(10:10):
their family structure, their culture, everything about them is Brazilian.
That's reflected in the way that they play football. Germans
play football like Germans, Australians play cricket like Australia. The
teams that have been very, very successful on a sustained basis,
that's who we are. We know what it looks like
and we're doing it our unique way. Now, if you're coaching,
(10:34):
if someone said, way, Moe, once you come and coach
the key Wee team, I wouldn't even mention Australia as
much as I'm a proud Australian, I love it. I
wouldn't even dream of saying let's do it in an
Australian way or in New Zilla or a good way
Canadian way. I would say step one is to figure
out what does it look like in training day to
(10:55):
day to do it at key we way and look
at that. So you know, I sit back as the Australian,
I'd say, how to describe cuey culture, good people, friendly,
family focused of course, great unity in their culture with
the married people and the rest of the population in
New Zealand. Resilient, really tough, no excuses about the weather,
(11:19):
just they deal with it and get on with it.
You know, I would go, well, then that's the way
I'm going to coach them. Would not end for a
life of me. Come in and say, hey, guys, you
know you can be better. We're going to train like
the Americans, or we're going to copy the English system
and we're going to do it does not work. The
smartest thing you do as a coaches go. I'm dealing
(11:40):
with a group of athletes who are tough, resilient, really
openly caring, humble. There's no doubt about that respectful. Just
want to be left alone to get on with it.
Don't need to be motivated and yell that screen up
because that's not who they are. Just keep going back,
black jumper, underside of the fern, flightless bird, those concepts,
(12:01):
and that's the way that you coach them. They just
get on with it. And I think that's a beautiful
quot and to it has to be.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
It has to be the secret mate because the only
consistent thing over the last fifty or sixty years. Technology
has changed, transports changed, our views on nutrition and training,
all those things have changed. The one consistent factor in
the Kiwi sporting success story since the nineteen fifties has
been that you're bloody Kiwei's that you're doing it the
(12:33):
way you do it because of who you are and
where you are.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And yeah, it's interesting that that Keywi's. Quite often I
think I'll be in a group and coaches will say, oh, yeah,
but you know, we haven't got this and we can't
do I would be if I had a new Zooalan passport,
knowing what you've achieved, you know, you'd be walking around
fill in ten foot tall.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Well, you're an honorary key Wee. You're always welcome over
here as you know, fascinating insights as always, mate, Thanks
so much. Let's hope that the key we success continues
and we'll catch up with you again sometime soon.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Always a pleasure, my friend.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Thanks Wayne, Wayne Goldsmith WG coaching dot commas his website
if you'd like to find out more about Wayne and
the work that he does, or he can just tune
in once every month or so when he joins us
with as many Pearls.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Of Wisdoms for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine.
Listen live to news talks ed b weekends from midday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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