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September 29, 2024 • 32 mins

Wellington had a mammoth weekend, with an All Blacks test and the World of Wearable Arts attracting visitors to the city. How do we attract more events to the city, and what do they mean for our economy?

Also, cruise ship numbers will be down this summer, and expensive airfares continue to bite. What is the outlook for Wellington's tourism market? 

Wellington Rugby Football Union chief executive Tony Giles and Ka Rawe Tours managing director Nathan Greenham joined Nick Mills for the Wellington Mornings Business Panel.

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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk Said b You're inside word on all
things business in the Capitol with Quinovic better Systems, better reporting,
better call, quinnopeck ho eight hundred Quinovic.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Let's get down, Let's get downs, Monnight mon.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Joey us for our business panel this week, as welling
to Rugby Football Union Chief executive Tony Jars Morning, Tony
go to Nick. How are you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, very good mate, great to be here. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
I'm glad you showed up after the weekend.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, Friday wasn't so good? Fantastic.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Well, I'm sorry, I don't want to talk about Saturday.
You didn't have anything to do with Saturday.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Hey, come on, Yeah, Friday there was an interesting afternoon evening.
But Gee's counties were on fire. What a fantastic performance
for the johnah Lono Trophy. Just brilliant.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
What are you? What else are you going to say?
You got beaten by fifty?

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Did you?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Was this undefeated team a couple of weeks ago. Now
you're getting beat by fifteen? How did you sit there smiling?

Speaker 4 (01:06):
Come?

Speaker 2 (01:07):
It was tough? It was It was a tough outing.
For the group. But obviously we need to reset. We
got another game against Hawks Bay this weekend, last game
of the round robin at the stadium, so we need to,
as Handsom would say, fluster Dney and move on pretty quickly.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, gosh, I could put it in a different way,
but we'll talk about that later in the show between
the ads and sports promoter. Do you call yourself a
sports bro?

Speaker 4 (01:26):
Do you know what?

Speaker 5 (01:27):
Maybe I'm a jack of all trades, nick, a bit
of a master of none. I had done some sports
promotion made of I've got a bit of a history
with the Phoenix also, I think that's where we first connected.
And and then tourism is my is my current gig.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
Next up, Spice. Nice to be here chatting to you, mate.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Well, the reason that we've got you here, I mean,
the reason apart from being a legend of the city,
Nathan Greenham we're talking to, from being a legend of
the city, is that you've started this car nowhere. Did
I get it close to.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
No, you didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
You didn't get it close raw perfect, Well that's what
I said, car rahwaih car Rawhy Tours and it's a
startup company, correct, So tell us quickly about that before
we get into it.

Speaker 5 (02:07):
So a couple of things. Card a we card awe
is a Maldi expression. The expression means that's awesome, Well,
that's good, Well that's excellent. So that's a really good
starting point for a business for me. I've been in
the tourism space now, Nick for probably about twelve months.
I spend a little bit of time cutting my teeth

(02:29):
if you like, with another tourism business. I'll tell you
what it boils down to for me, neck really really simply,
this city is awesome, man, this city has got some
really really cool stuff to showcase. One day, I'll take
you out and you'll see just how much enjoyment, just
how much enjoyment our our maneu hitti our guests get
from cruising around the city. If I had people up

(02:50):
on Mount Victoria today, that'd be saying, hey, Nathan, this
is one of the prettiest cities I've been.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
And so look, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
It's a commercial enterprise, right, it's a business for me,
but I love willing to mate. We've got some really
cool things to show off, and that's what I'm going
to do.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Good on you. We'll talk about how difficult a time
it is to start up a business. But let's let's
concentrate on the weekend it's just gone by, because I mean,
suddenly we've been in this rut in the city. We've
had people just going hammer and tongue at the mayor.
We've been having people coming hammer and tongue against the council,
the hammer and tongue against the government for making all

(03:26):
these people redundant. Everything's a problem we've had. We've been
the laughing stock of other radio shows around the country.
To be worse you could be in Wellington. We've all
lived with it. But this weekend we put the finger
up to everyone and said that's why Wellington is what
Wellington is. And you know, I'm not going to say
it again, but you can't beat Wellington on a good

(03:46):
rugby weekend.

Speaker 5 (03:47):
Yeah, absolutely, positively Wellington. There's another one for you, oh
class from the pasts.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Are you going to bring all everything? Are we going
to talk about history?

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Tony?

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Let's start with you. Apart from your getting an ARS
beating on Friday night, you drove back, you drove up
a back three from it's a decent drive. That's a
commitment what was your buzz on the city? Tell me
what you thought when you came back on Saturday morning.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
I thought it was absolutely fantastic. And to jump on
the back of Nathan there. I mean, whilst you can't
be at one into on a good day, mate, this
is the you know, it's the club met of the
South Pacific. When it's like this, it's just absolutely tremendous.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
She started to pushing that one.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
You got to love it though, right, I mean the
start of well, the Test match brought tens of thousands
of people into the city and if you were walking
around the city yesterday, how awesome was it. We're walking
around the waterfront, people everywhere, families out, cafes, buzzing coffee everywhere.
Made it was just outset. It was just sensational. You know,
daylight savings now here. I think there's a change, that
there's a change in the mood. You know, winter's over,

(04:44):
the dull bottomed out. Oh, I think it has to now,
I think it has to. We've got to change the
narrative and we've got to change the narrative from talking
about the mayor and about the council and different things
and be more positive and own that narrative. You know,
let's change it. Summer's here, let's go Nathan. You're one
of the most positive people that I've ever met. Thank you, mate,
And that's a good thing. So do you think we've

(05:05):
bottomed out?

Speaker 3 (05:06):
Bottomed out?

Speaker 5 (05:07):
Nick? And look a couple of things, Tony. See the
sun's out right. The sun makes a bloody difference made
it really does. Let me talk you through my friday.
Just tell you a little bit about my friday. I'm
based out in the Hut Valley, so I've jumped on
the train to get into the city.

Speaker 4 (05:22):
I've taken a.

Speaker 5 (05:23):
Nice little walk along the waterfront. I pop along to
Queen's Wharf and go, gee, wow, what are these two
hundred people doing here? Waiting in a line? There's half
a dozen all blacks. There, there's the letters low Cup
and straight away there's a lifting mood.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Right.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
You go, well, wait, gee, look at this. I carried
on a little bit further around.

Speaker 5 (05:40):
We got to to Papa and I go, what's just
bloody band doing here? There's a band there, they're chirping away.
There's a crowd of fifty or one hundred people sitting around.
You go, wow, we my mood's got even more buoyant.
And then I was lucky enough. I know Tarkina is
a topic of conversation at the moment in Wellington as well.
I was lucky enough to be at a function at
Tarkena over a thousand people, Wellington Corporate Community's finest and

(06:07):
raising three hundred and fifty one thousand dollars for Lifelike Trust.
So that was just it was a single representation. I'll
tell you what made If it's not for anybody else,
certainly it was a turning point for me to say, well,
we look at this place, let's go everybody.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Can I put a plug in? Because my son was
at that function that you're at. I wasn't there, but
my son, who went to the function, said there was
two outstanding things at that function. One was Graham Henry.
He said he was amazing to listen to.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
What a fun guy.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
And you had who's who of New Zealand Rugby there
you had who he was amazing. And the second amazing
person was Jason Pine, our very own Jason Pine. He
thought my son thought he was just the most incredible,
incredible host that he'd ever been to a function with.

Speaker 5 (06:47):
Now the challenge you had with Pineyer is that he
sets the bar so bloody high every time. I don't
know how he maintains that standard that he does. I
was sitting with a first time at the Champion's lunch.
She said, how does that bloody guy remember all that
stuff and say it as well as he does?

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Can I tell you what go on? Because I get
here at six o'clock in the morning to start to
do my show. Yes, guess who beat me here on
Friday morning?

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Who beat me here? Jason Pied And you know what
he was. He was shaking because he sits two seats
away from me. As leg was shaking, he was on
the computer. He was nervous as hell. He was working
his butt off. That's what makes him so damn love
it anyway, and he cares about it too, and and
and that's what sets him apart. And just to we
plug as well. And there were there were there were
multiple events on Friday and celebrating the weekend. The Test

(07:36):
match with the Centurions lunch going on as well, which
also raised six figures. There were other events on at
the Cambridge Hotel with OBU and other rugby clubs. You know,
there was a real as you say, who's who of
who's in town and the amount of money and good
will spread around the city from Friday morning was outstanding.
So well done to all involved. Yeah, and that's the city.
But how do we actually generate more for our city now?

(07:58):
I'm concerned myself personally that we don't have any big
concerts coming up.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Now.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
We've always i mean we were well in Tonn and
so we know that there's always kiss or someone coming
to the city. I mean that's approach showing my age
there by saying kiss. But there's always an event, a
big band with it. We've got nothing do we? Is
it so important to our city that we create these
events so that we actually you know, remember when they
had the Scottish bike bagpipers here for that remember that? Yeah,

(08:24):
military military, So how important are these major events to
us as a city. I'll tell you to start with it.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
I'll just jump in. I mean, listen, one hundred percent.
The weekend just showcased it, you know, major test match,
wells on. People are flocking to the city. There's a
good will happening, you know, and we need more of it.
I mean, we're connected, as we all are in this
room to the likes of Skystadium and what Warwick. Dan's
trying to do. The concert and promoter scene is difficult
and so fluid, and I know from us at a

(08:53):
rugby level, we've had conversations about having to kind of
second book different dates just in case a concert or
a promotion happens, and that's a really fluid state. And
so it's an environment that he's challenged to try and secure.
But the weekend that's just happened has showcased the benefit
of having major events in this town and we need
so much more of it. So Nathan, if you can influence.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
That much, yeah, I mean as a promoter, Nathan, you
know you've done this stuff and you know how important
this city. I just want you to let people know
how important events are because it's hard to get me
and you, all three of us out on a Saturday
to come into town and there's nothing to come into
town for because we you know, we live in the city.

Speaker 5 (09:31):
No spot on Nick, And look we did we glossed
over Wow a little bit.

Speaker 4 (09:35):
Wow is an absolute monster.

Speaker 5 (09:37):
And I haven't seen the figures from twenty twenty four,
but for twenty twenty three, the economic impact on Wow
was thirty million in Willington.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
It's absolutely phenomenal.

Speaker 5 (09:47):
Now I know, I've been lucky enough to attend some
Wellington n zed who he in the last sort of
three or four weeks, and I could almost quote our
friend John Allen who said, hey, look, events is our bars.
Events is what we're going to do to pick this
city back up and get its back, get it back
on its feet.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
That more too, And I'll come to you on this, Tony.
But like us getting peap numbers to games, I mean,
I'm big on this, you know, obviously with my Saints background.
But you know we need to get ten thousand people
to an NPC game, we need fifteen to eighteen thousand
to a Super fifteen game, and we need fifteen to
eighteen thousand to the Phoenix, which you well, ok, why

(10:28):
do we not get Wellington the big numbers to Wellington
sports games?

Speaker 5 (10:31):
Your spot on, Nick, And you've sort of raised a
really good point there, And there's I've got a very
distinct charity between two different things here. We've got these
one off kind of sugar hit events if you like,
Wal's an annual sugar hits. The test match we get
once every year every couple of years.

Speaker 4 (10:47):
That's a bit of a sugar hit.

Speaker 5 (10:49):
You're right, Nick, there's another tier of events in Wellington
that need some love and those are the ones that
we see, however many times a week and that struggle
for the level of consistency that are hindered a little
bit by some of the infrastructure that they're having to
use and the cost and expense that goes with it.
So my point was going to be the city can't

(11:12):
survive on a diet of one off sugarheit events by themselves.
You have to have another layer, another depth of things
that our city is interested in getting out to do.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
And partio I've got to go to an airbreak. But
I want to hear because I mean I heard there
was only a thousand or under a thousand for the
NPC game.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
It was a tough lisson we had. We had sixteen
hundred through the turnstiles, but only about seven hundred that
paid for the right to be there. So that's a challenge.
It's a massive challenge. It can one that we are
working hard to try and rectify. But we've got to
tell our brand and our story better. We've got to
connect with our community better, and the stadium is a
troublesome piece of kit to deliver at and also for

(11:49):
fans to go to. There's attourney of distance, there's a
cost structure that is prohibitive and we've all got to
work together as stakeholders to make that better.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
Can you do? Can you make it better?

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (12:00):
I mean is NPC? I mean I love the NPC. Right,
I'm an MPC. If I could watch a game of rugby,
I watch an MPC. You know read fully shield games
another freagant disappointment. But you know, can we get bigger crowd?

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Stand PC listen well? And we're seeing that in regional
in the in the provinces now, you know Southland seven
and a half, eight thousand games, you know, Hawks Bay
doing well, Taranaki doing well. It's the metro centers where
we are the smaller brother to the likes of the
Phoenix and the Hurricanes and the Saints and the Pulse
and the Firebirds that we're struggling with them. We've got
to change the narrative.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Let's talk about tourism. Nathan. I'm going to start with
you on this because you know you're involved in it.
You've just started a startup company. I know there's a
lot of people in town for well and there's a
lot of ten people in town to test match, but
toroism in the city, how is it feeling generally?

Speaker 5 (12:47):
Do you know what made I came into this chat
saying I'm not going to be negative, but I'm just
going to to's and for a second.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
To be honest. We only want you to be honest.

Speaker 5 (12:54):
There's a few there's a few challenges at the moment nickets.
It's been well documented and I've just speak specifically about
the cruise ships for a second. Well documented that the
number of cruise ships come to Wellington is down by
it's about twenty five percent. The cruise ship industry in
New Zealand is worth about half a billion in total.

(13:15):
It's about a five hundred million dollar industry. So when
you get about and just figure me with the figures here,
but when you get about twenty five percent less ships
coming into Wellington, and when you extrapolate that over the
whole country, there's one hundred and fifty million dollars less
of tourism money coming into New Zealand. So as a
starting point, there's less cruise ships. The reason that there's
less cruise ships is because we are specifically quite an

(13:37):
expensive place to come and I know you can apply
that particular statement to all sorts of different bloody things
at the moment, but we are particularly expensive. There's a
new international visitors levy that they are looking at introducing,
taking the cost to come here from and again just
bear with Met's about thirty five dollars up to about
one hundred dollars. So there's a few things that are

(13:58):
really critical that you go. Gee, that makes for a
pretty tough lens if you're looking through that and looking
for the next six months. I'm going to overlay that
with saying that our pre COVID tourism we're only at
about eighty three percent right, so many of the other
countries around the world are back up to one hundred
percent of their tourism revenue. We've still got some room

(14:22):
to grow, but that's going to take a little bit
more time. So to answer your question, Nick, in the
short term, there's a few immediate challenges that we are facing,
but in the longer term, there's enough reason for us
to be optimistic.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
Tony when you sit back and think about it, and
I know that you've spent Friday night in counties mannicout
when you're traveling and you'll travel with the team and
you know what's going on. What's the negative publicity around
the country doing to our brand, our city, your brand,
my brand?

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, I think it does have an impact negatively, you know.
I mean people are talking about things around personalities and
leadership within the council that they shouldn't be. We should
be focusing on on all the positives that Wellington can bring,
you know. To Nathan's point around the cruise ships, yes
we are down twenty twenty five percent, but we still
have fifteen cruise liners docking in December and twenty in
January and twenty two in February. So how do we

(15:10):
benefit ourselves and get ready to position ourselves to take
advantage of that rather than focusing on the twenty percent
down on last year, right, So that's an opportunity for us.
But yes, Nick, to answer your question, we've got to
stop talking about you know, drinking issues with the mayor
and talking about you know, selling your car to pay
to live, to pay for bills and winning lotto and

(15:30):
totally agreement and focusing on all the good things that
council can and should be doing.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
You know, you think it's just been an easy hit
for people, and the.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Media love it. You guys love it, right, I mean, well,
not so much you, but of course, but as they
love it. It's what gets people fired up and got
what gets talked about going. But we have a leadership
deficiency here that needs to change, right. You're in the
tourism industry. Yeah, I'm in the sport entertainment business. We've
got to work together and be more positive around this. Man.

Speaker 5 (15:59):
I couldn't agree with you more Tony. It's it's it's
actually really easy to snipe. It's really easy to sit
back and take shots at people and identify things that
are problematic.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
It's a little bit more challenging.

Speaker 5 (16:12):
It's a different mindset to say, well, okay, we get that,
but we're going to look forward and we're going to
find the things to be positive about. So you're right, mate,
We've still got seventy eight cruise ships coming into Wellington
across the course of October to.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Make do you I mean, you're directly involved and I
have been for twenty years saying you know, and I've
had restaurants and bars on the waterfront, so people can say,
oh that it's only in Cordny place, so they wouldn't
go out there. And he's out of Lile Beta, they
don't go out there. I don't see a dollar out
of the cruise ships. Don't see a single dollar out
of them, never have. I mean they where do they
go and spend all this money that everyone keeps telling

(16:45):
that they spend.

Speaker 5 (16:47):
Yeah, look, they they're very specifically, they're generally in the
central city here, Nick. So I mean, you know, if
I put my tourism, if I put my tour operate
a hat on for a second, I can tell you
about days where there's excuse me, thirty or forty vehicles
down on the port picking up people and shuffling them
around the city. We'll take them to take them up
to Mount Vick. Obviously it's beautiful up they will take

(17:08):
them around to Witter. They'll go and buy a bloody
wetter tea towel or a door mat or whatever whatever's
happening around at Witter. We'll stop somewhere, we'll grab a coffee.
We'll put them on the cable car. They'll stop up
at the cable car museum. So I guess to answer
your question, clearly, they're not they're not getting too far
out of the city.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
And they're not going out for big meals or getting
drunken doing that because it's all free on the fare.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
Absolutely spot on.

Speaker 5 (17:30):
But at the end of the tour, Mate, we'll drop
them off at Papa, they'll go and spend some money
in there to buy a little greenstone and the way
they go.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Let's talk about the cost of travel. A lot of
people have been talking about it, and Tony, you'd be
absolutely coppying it with your team trying to travel, fly
them around the country and play. I mean, I'm looking
at you nodding your head. I mean what does that
do to us as a tourist market? What does it
do to us as a city when it costs so

(17:57):
much to fly anywhere?

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, it's tough. I mean I think from a rugby sense,
we saw that this year. I mean for the last
couple of years there hasn't been a Test match in Wellington.
As you said earlier, Nathan, this year we were blessed
to have two and people had a choice because the
environment we live in. You know, it's a cost to
get to Wellington. There's a cost to go to both
test matches, and we saw the first Test back in
Wellington in three years with no sold out signs up

(18:21):
against Argentina. Right, people made a choice because they couldn't
afford to come to Wellington and get tickets and go
to both test matches. Flights are an issue. I mean
it's topical today. School holidays have now started and the
flight costs are up thirty forty percent. You know, it's
a real issue. It's a real issue. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (18:41):
Look, any additional cost or increasing cost is prohibitive, right,
as simple as that for me in hard times, correct,
absolutely right, as prohibitive.

Speaker 4 (18:51):
I sort of.

Speaker 5 (18:54):
I wanted it back to just use myself and my
wife as an example. You know, we'd regularly sort of
zip away a few years ago and have a weekend
away and get away from the kids, that sort of stuff.
But these days the first thing we do is look
and get oh, gee gee, that's a little bit cost prohibitive.
He's today's fact for you. Here, today's one a major fact.
Domestic tourism in New Zealand is worth about twenty seven billion.

(19:17):
International tourism was worth about eleven billion, right, so and
you have to get hit around that and say, well,
hang on, our domestic tourism is twice, if not bigger,
two and a half times bigger if you like, than
international tourists. So you know, those people who might zip
down from Auckland for a weekend or us zipping down
to Queenstown.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
With our families or wives or whatever.

Speaker 5 (19:40):
Those costs make a big difference. And domestic tourism is
our biggest market here for tourists.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
And you've got to also remember there was only since
I've been doing this show, which is three and a
half years, that we were tourism hospitality was our number
one amazing spend in the country. I mean, it's how
much has it changed when you can't fly cheaply from
one place to another?

Speaker 5 (20:04):
Yeah, look, I mean you know you'll still see some
have a seat fears come up from time to time
and you jump on those.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
I'll use another example actually just my son and I.

Speaker 5 (20:12):
My son is a mad sports fan, and we'll follow
the Warriors around wherever they might go. But unlike you
know a few years ago, you jump on and say gee,
I can get something for one hundred bucks to get
up to Auckland. Some we'll jump on and do it.
These days, we're looking at the schedule at the beginning
of the season going okay, well maybe it's in five
months time, and we know we can get something.

Speaker 4 (20:30):
It's a little bit, a little bit more reasonable.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
So that's not right, that's not right, Tony. What does
it cost you? I mean, you know, I don't want
dollars and cents, because I can give you my dollars
and cents.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
But what is it?

Speaker 3 (20:40):
What percentage of your of your whole income.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Is It's a's huge. I mean logistics running running two
teams in the FPC the NPC, but we've also got
eight pathway teams below that right down to under sixteens
and multiple teams and our academy. You're flying thirty thirty
two people around for a single game. Now we do
get obviously support from ENDZR on that. So so there
has it changed? Has it changed you at TechEd a

(21:05):
little bit?

Speaker 3 (21:05):
I mean when I started in basketball, we went everywhere
on the North Island in a van or a bus,
and then we started flying. And then when things get tight,
you start going back up to Hawks Bay in a van.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
You change one percent. I don't fly with the team,
I don't go away and fly and travel or stay
in accommodation with the team. We send one for sheet away,
so our president will travel. That's it. We make that call.
So for games like on Friday, I traveled up by road.
I left early, I got up there. You got a
chance to make some phone calls and do some business
on the phone, and spend the time wisely you go

(21:36):
to the game. It was a cost implication, you know,
to travel to Auckland on a Friday night, going into
the big city was going to be you know, circa
eleven hundred dollars add on some accommodation and some F
and B in there. You're talking one and a half
sixteen hundred dollars for a one off game. We can't
we can't justify that, right, So you're making decisions.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yester year that was two hundred dollars, one hundred dollars
each way the fly.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
So it's two days days.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
But I mean, it's not ridiculous. It's not like we're
talking about the sixties. We're talking about five years ago,
four years ago. So I'm not like bringing figures out
when the houses were fifty thousand dollars, houses were still
over a million dollars but you still could fly to
Auckland for one hundred back.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
I mean I would also press upon. I'd also say
that that Wellington Rugby is in a position financially and
we need to make some better decisions as well. So
that is more part of my thinking. But the cost
factor is absolutely right now inequitable for us to make
those positive decisions.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
Yeah, the you know, was one hundred dollars a week
while ago.

Speaker 5 (22:34):
If it's one hundred and twenty five, yeah, okay, we
could live one hundred fifty because because that's that's life.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
Things go up.

Speaker 5 (22:40):
When you're looking at it's four hundred and fifty odd
dollars to get to Wellington to Talkland one way, you go,
oh maybe we're going to postpone that one.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
So doing business outside Wellington now, you do a bit
of business outside the city, you know, I really want
to compare other cities to Wellington. I want to see
what you're thinking when you're doing business outside of Wellington.
What do you feel is the difference between businesses outside
of Wellington and Wellington Tony Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
I mean look at it from a rugby sense, you know,
doing business in the metro versus some of our other
NPC counterparts in the in the provincial territories you know,
the Hawks by the Tartanaki's, the Southlands, the Northlands even
that are you know, a single team operation within that
kind of union, and business for them is a lot
easier business for us in the city of the size

(23:26):
where you're competing with so many other like you know,
semi pro professional sports is tough. You know, it's a
little pond and we're all fishing for our same little
piece of it. So is the narrative of Wellington affecting
business outside of our region. I would have to say yes,
there is, because we at times, as the Saints would
be as well, Nick, look to do national partnerships and

(23:46):
national deals and and sometimes that narrative can affect the brand.
This is where we have to revitalize our story and
strengthen and adapt a little bit more from A from A.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
It's interesting you say that.

Speaker 5 (23:57):
I mean, Nathan, does it affect you to No, No,
look to be totally frank, I'm lucky. I suppose that
I don't have any business outside of the capital. The
capital is where I'm focusing for now. What I would
say is, I mean there's a general there's a general
malaise across the whole country at the moment, right it
cost of living, all that sort of all that.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
Sort of stuff that we're not we just think we correct.

Speaker 5 (24:17):
You know, it's a little bit gloomy in most places
now when you compound that with the fact that there
are the six thousand odd jobs that have been cut
from a government perspective. In coming back to what Tony said, Hey,
look guys, we can we can sit and look at
that forever and we can cry and suck a thumb
about it for as long as you like, or we
can kind of air too Wellington. You can stand up

(24:38):
and say, well it's time to turn the corner and
time to move on. So look, I don't do I
don't do any business outside of Wellington. This is where
my focus remains.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, but I'm saying that You've got to know, people
have got this problem about Wellington. They think I don't
really want to go and take a tour there because
shut everyday here is terrible. I want to also, while
I've got you here, Tony, I really want to talk
about sports sponsorship because obviously I've done that for the
last forty five years and I know when times are
tough that sports sponsorships becomes the first thing that everybody

(25:07):
tries to cut. And Nathan, you have had a lot
to do with sports, a startup sports team that would
have found it really difficult. How difficult is it right
now in the financial times when we are to get
sports sponsorship right now?

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Incredibly difficult, incredibly difficult. You know, sports from the community
or aspirational semi professional sports like us rely heavily on
retail and the hospital sector, and that's the sector that's
been hammered and smash more than any other sector right
in this city. And we're hearing stories of woe every
week around that sector, which you are both heavily connected to,

(25:39):
so that is challenging. Also, you've just referenced on you know,
the government structure and the changes in Wellington five and
a half, six thousand job losses, department freezers, on expenditure.
A lot of those agencies, departments, ministries would support community,
whether it be health or education or sport in some ways,
they're now not doing that. So the recipients of that

(26:00):
funding are going into the class fource sector and making
that base so broad that any particular funding is now
just dried up as well, so that's tough. But the
commercial sector, NICK is incredibly challenging right now. And unless
you've got a revitalized brand or story or a way
to connect differently than you have in the last two
three four years post COVID, it's going to remain a

(26:21):
challenging space. I kind of like the way you've done
things with the lines. I feel that you've got something
that you haven't had for a while, which I'm going
to say is unity. We feel like one city, one team.
We feel like we own you, which I don't think
you've had before for a long time. I mean, I
remember in the eighties, you know, when it was like
that with Stu and Bernie and all those sort of things.
But it's been a while since we felt that we

(26:42):
owned our team. I think you've generated that, which that's
been a purposeful decision by us to reconnect with our community,
and you saw. I know this will affect you in
this conversation, but we did take the first three games
away from the city and out to Potty Or to
purposely reconnect our game with our community, and purposely with
a multi pacifica community, and purposely to generate new revenue

(27:05):
and revenue streams income that we can't get in the
city here. We did that. We were affected by weather, yes,
but the commercialism did come and we were able to
tell our stories, reconnect and in fact, this afternoon I'm
taking six players personally out to to Wakafy Order Trust,
a wonderful organization that is a Maori copepper that supports
well being and welfare for this established and disenfranchised community

(27:28):
and it's an incredible thing and we need to connect
and tell those stories differently and better if we're going
to be successful off the field. And right now Wellington
Rugby Union is in such a position that we're not
sustainable in our current form. We've got to change and
adapt and that's where we're going right now.

Speaker 5 (27:42):
And know me for your me in that space, Tony,
because you know it has has. I know we see
the connection about seven times now, but it has felt
a little bit more like Wellington has connected with the Lions.
And we talked a little bit about sponsorship and the
break there and some of the partners that you guys
have and what they're helping you to achieve. That's awesome, man,

(28:04):
It's just awesome to see you guys position yourself in
the right space.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
I think we should probably just just to jump across
and probably just give a shout out if you don't mind,
to the likes of Mel's Albert Wellington beds, you know,
Garrette Project, these kind of people that are you know,
traditional Wellington business. You can't just come in here, welly,
great onians and pay fair play.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
And yes, I would not object to you obviously doing
Mells album.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
Hey with sports sponsorship.

Speaker 5 (28:30):
You guys know better than me as well as me,
your starting point is it's tough. It's tough to start with.
If we even walked out the door, you've built your presentation.
It's bloody hard work. When in these climates it only
gets tougher, right, So you're either knee deep trying to
fight something or your neck deep and it feels a
little bit and I'm speaking on your behalf of you

(28:50):
like it's neck deep time at the moment, I.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Got a great story to tell people about how many
pairs of shoes I've worn out knocking on doors or
this is a part of the show that I really like,
one of my favorite parts because I find out about things. Right.
So someone really, really special comes into Wellington. They haven't
been to Wellington for at least twenty or thirty years,
or you haven't ever been to Wellington, and you've got
your hearts pounding a bit while you're waiting at the

(29:13):
airport to pick them up, and you've got to take
them somewhere that you really want to impress them and
you want to show them what Wellington's about. Now, I'm
going to come to you second on this one, Nathan,
because you know you're a terrorist hospital around guy, you
know where to go. But Tony, Tony, guys, did I
get there right?

Speaker 5 (29:28):
Les?

Speaker 2 (29:29):
You're worried about Mount Giles.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Giles, Tony Giles, where are you going to take them?

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Mate? I love this straight from the airport, and I
don't want to steal Nathan's thunder, but Mount Vick's just
an incredible place to start to look at the city scape,
the landscape, the sea, escape of who we are, of
what our feneral is, and it's just incredible to ground
someone just the natural beauty of our city. Right, It's
so impressive up there. So Mount vik would be a

(29:56):
great place to start in the lookout. I'll then go
straight down to the waterfront. Our waterfront is world class.
And I'll say it again, mate, we are the club
met of the South Pacific here. It's outstanding on a
good day, right Nathan. So I would start right down
the north end, you know, walk up through the up pass,
you know, one Red Dog and Shed five and walk
through there and just really take it and enjoy the

(30:18):
artistry along the waterfront, the eclectic people that you meet
and see grab a coffee of course to Papa has
to be there, right, wonderful opportunity to walk through there
and cecimon of it never fails. That it never fails.
And Glipolis things thought mean we're being probably amazing. I mean,
how good is that thing you learn every time you go?

Speaker 5 (30:34):
Right?

Speaker 2 (30:34):
And I'd probably end up continue on around, go around
Oriental Parade, and if it's a family environment, Nick, I'd
probably end up at Cohen's. I'd sit on the deck,
I'd look over the water. I'd look over.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
Sorry, sorry, Tony, I've got to go to Nathan because
I'm running out of time.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
So I wasn't trying to stop you guys.

Speaker 5 (30:53):
I'll tell you what, Tony City wasn't going to steal
my thunder he stole at all.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
But that's okay.

Speaker 5 (30:58):
But look, Tony's already highlighted all of those key things
here in Wellington.

Speaker 4 (31:02):
The other one you check in there is we to.

Speaker 5 (31:04):
What is an amazing story. It really is, but I'm
going to I'm going to digress for a second. Nick,
I took my wife and my mum yesterday the Carperti Island.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Oh wow, the holy hicca.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
Well we I'll tell you what. You put your laptop.

Speaker 5 (31:20):
Down, you put your phone down, and you just enjoy
the beauty of Carpot the island.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
So that's where I'd go.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
It's beautiful. Thank you both so much for joining us.
Wellington Rugby Football Union Chief Executive Tony Giles.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Giles, you got there in the end of world.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
I'm losing my job here. I've been pet my notice
in shocker. Nathan Greenhan from car Rawi Car, I said,
car You've got it spot on, my friend. At least
I've got one out of two. Thanks both for coming.
Even if I get your name right, oh gosh, I'm
in trouble.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
Thanks for having us.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Mate my pleasure.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks. It'd be Wellington from nine am weekday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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