Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk, said.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
B Christopher lux In, Prime Minister, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Good to be with you, Nick, thanks for having us on.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
It's been a while.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
It's been.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I think it was just pre election, wasn't it that
we're during an election campaign?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I swung by.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
It was the last time probably caught up with you
in person, so it's good to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Good to see you as well. A couple of little questions.
Speaker 5 (00:28):
I want to start before again the whole idea of
this TikTok stuff. You're a TikTok sensation, You're a starry
Are you going to go into movies after you?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
You know what's behind this politics? You will never hear
from me again, I think.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
But I think I'll do the job as hard as
I can for as long as I can, and then
do something else. But no, Look, the reason I do
that is because the media environment's really fragmented right in
New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
And.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Actually what's happening now is people aren't watching the six
o'clock news anymore. In fact, all demographics that's people are
watching online video. That's where they getting their news and
their information from So yes, we've got a press gallery
and Wellington in the Parliament. They sort of get very
obsessed on the police stuff. You've got other journalists, you've
got commercial radio. Often I had really good conversations on
mental health, for example, on commercial radio stations. But I
(01:14):
also think talking directly to New Zealanders when they're increasingly
online jews. Yeah, yes, great, it's great. So it's another
way of reaching people. And I'm just of the view
that you should use all the media channels, all the
media outlets to try and tell your story and what
you're trying to do and communicate with people, because that's
a great thing is that in New Zealand, you know,
politicians should be pretty accessible and which compared to other countries, and.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
You've got to talk to everyone and all avenues.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Quick other quick question, quick one before we get into
the mood of the city. In Wontington stuff Premiere House.
Have you put a new kitchen and put a new
duney in there yet?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Are you going in?
Speaker 4 (01:48):
They finished painting, it's just paint, carpet and curtains. I think,
well paint and curtains of this will do you move
in there?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Yeah, I'd love to move in, and it's just that
essentially what's happened there is the house hasn't been invested
in and since basically Bulger's family Bulger had refurbish in
nineteen ninety I think it was so it's just a
place where they have wanted to paint and to put
new curtains in.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
So that's what we're going to do.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Right Let's talk Wellington issues. Yeah, Wellington's in a rut
right now.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
You spend enough time here to realize we're in a rut.
It's been a whole lot of debates. We're dying when
things get better. We've got business owners sitting in the
seat you're sitting and telling us all the time that
the public service cuts have been a big impact on
the city. We know that the public service cuts were needed,
but do you think the government underestimated what they were
going to do to Wellington by doing them?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Well, I just think Wellington's had you know. I mean,
I love Wellington and I lived here. It's where I
came to after I got married, and I worked here
obviously out on Potoni and Amanda tort here in our
first house. We bought here up in NIO and so
you know, I love Wellington, great city, you know, and
I came here in the mid nineties and you know,
it was really pumping and it was a great place.
You know, you've got lots of young people, smart educated or.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
You'd feel that it's not like that now.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Well but I think you've you know again, you know,
you've got a council here. You know, the good people
are Wellington vote for the people. That's who they elect
and that's how they decide. And the councils make decisions
about what that's doing to drive activity into the central
city and you know the investments that needs to make.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
So does the government take any kind of responsibility though
in the tough times? Does it say, look, we know
that we're.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Going tonowledge acknowledge, you know we are you know, we're
wanting to right size the public service and make sure
it's delivering in a sharper way. But I just say
to you, I don't think that's the only problem. I
don't think that's the you know, we've we've we've you know,
like every city across New Zealand, it's been pretty tough
times because we've had a bad set of economic staff
you know here to see the previous administration which we're
cleaning up and fixing up and hopefully I'm going to
(03:44):
get the economy growing very shortly.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
Compare it quickly to Auckland. The two cities spend and
do you feel it in an Auckland that it's got
the lull that we we're experiencing.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
And well, they've both got different challenges. You know, Auckland's
had a major challenge in the CBD area around crime
in particular, and so you know, you've had to concentrate,
You've had people out of the city so not working
in the city, you've had post COVID, you've had emergency housing,
you've had crime, a crime wave down in downtown Aukland.
It's been very challenging. So yeah, the good news as
(04:13):
we've actually put extra police into Auckland on the beat
and actually we've seen a really significant improvement, you know,
twenty two percent less serious as and same in Wellington
and we put seventeen police here in Wellington. And I've
actually heard from you know, business owners here in Wellington
as I've moved around just saying, oh, Chris, that's actually
working with seeing police are visible. They think that's been
helping a lot. But you know, you've got to determine
that you want that downtown area and willing to be
(04:34):
very vibrant.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
You want it to be the go to place. That's
how it used to be.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
You know, do you agree with the golden milestall going ahead,
known that the financial problems that we're having in the city,
do you think it should start?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Well, I mean, my message, as I said the other
day at a city council you know, local government conference,
was look, I want councils to focus on the basics
and do the basics brilliantly, which is drive your local economy,
make the investments that matter. Most of people don't do
vanity projects and nice to do stuff, don't do expensive stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
You know, then they get it sorted.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
You were looking straight at Toriy Faro when you made
that speech. You have to look at that group, said
pull your heads and pull your belts and yep, let's
get sorted.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Now.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
I know that it probably that was too late for
them to do that. The very next day, well the
very next week we hear of a five hundred and
fifty thousand dollars bike rack on the terrace. I mean
doesn't that want you to pull whatever here you've got
left out?
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Well, yeah, I don't think there's any more to pull.
But it's but look, I mean that's the point I
was trying to make because councils need to get back
to basics. Families across New Zealand have tightened their belts.
Businesses have had to do it, you know, talk about hospitality, business,
we're talking about that before exactly what's happened. Central governments
had to do it and councils should do the same.
And when you see the cost of producing you know,
pedestrian crossing, Jada bars, you know, wrote, you know other stuff,
(05:46):
that's the stuff I'm saying. Stop the dumb stuff, you know,
stop the nice to do stuff.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Do if you were Mira Wellington right now and you've.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Seen itar Wellington, but you're.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Smart enough to know that what's going on in Wellington?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Something is I want to drive. I mean, Wellington's a
great city. It's an awesome city. It's a great place
to raise a family, it's a great place to live in.
It's got a cultural edge to it that no other
city's got in its proposition. You've got intelligent young people
here that come to work in government and around and
adjacencies to government. So you want to drive into that
hospitality sector in the central city. You want to make
(06:20):
people come into the heart of the city, and you
want to do everything you can to make that as
easy and as simple as possible. You want to make
moving around the city really simple. You know, let's get
Wellington moving. I mean, it's just a conversation to post
it vote for a decade, you know it did, nothing happened.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
So you still haven't told me whether you think we
should go ahead with it.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
No, I'm not going to say that because I think
that's ultimate decision for the people Wellington. And I just
say that people are Wellington.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
The people are Wellington.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Can I just vote for who you vote for and
I get it for this I gets administration that then
we've got a government.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
That can actually look at the problems and.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Want to be clear, you know, well we have local
government and they're supposed to deliver their communities and their
local government. We have sixteen hundred elected officials across this
country and sixty something sixty seven district.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Basically, can I can I get into this weeds then?
Speaker 5 (07:03):
So basically Wellington City council can do whatever they want
you and you'll just let them put up with it.
So Symby and Brown and.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
I had local government in my office yesterday and our
message was very simple. We are going to benchmark the
performance of our councils. We want to understand how well
they are responding to their customers, which is their rate payers.
Want to make sure that they are actually spending money
on the right stuff. We're going to put some controls
and some visibility in benchmarking around all of that stuff.
In New South Wales. You know, you go in there
and you can actually get the information about how long
(07:33):
does it take for people to respond to you know,
getting a resource consent, how long does it take to
get customer service out of the councils? Now a lot
of the frustrations people have as it just takes too long.
It's massive bureaucracies. Nothing's getting done, the important stuff's not
getting focused on so at the moment.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
So how close to.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
They're being sort of I don't know, bringing in someone
to keep an eye on things. How close are we?
How I mean you obviously had this conversation with Simmy
and Brown. You actually you know you live in the
city part time, so you know that the actual voters
may have made a mistake or.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Well, I know the local vote and democracy. You know,
then the Wellington people get a chance every three years
to determine who their local councils are and who their
mayor will be and how the city will be led.
That's their decision. They've made their decision, sort it out.
So I respect the decision that they've made. But all
I'm saying to you is my message to councils is
very simple, which is get it together, get it gripped up,
(08:32):
focus on what you need to focus on, and that's
that's making sure you serve.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
The rate payers well.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
So how close bantly, how close would you say Wellington
Council is right now? Remembering that you've given them a
couple of ultimatums, Simon Brown's written them a couple of letters.
The ten year plan might not be going ahead because
of the sale of the airport shares, which we'll get
into shortly. How close do you reckon it is? Before
that you look at something like an observer.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
The Crown observer would be the next thing. You then
move to a commissioner. If you think we'd be close
you know and tyro on, Well, you got to.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Such a point of dysfunction in Toraga that put in
the commissioner and was effects okay, exactly what we do.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
So how close do you reckon we are to a
Crown observer?
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Well, I'm not going to talk about that because I
think those are decisions.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Ultimately, there's a lot of talk around town that there
is the discussions being going on already.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Is that Well, I think you can read between the
lines that I'm pretty I want better performance out of
Wellington City Council.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
You know, that's pretty clear.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
I've started with some focus common remarks and you know,
as I said, you know, we're sitting in a lovely
convention center which is wonderful, but you've got pipes best.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
So that the Crown Observer has definitely been discussed and
it's something that I'm.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Sure there's a range of advice that Sammy and Brown
takes as the Minister of Local Government.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
How good is he is? He good enough to he
is brilliant.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
He is brilliant.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
He is a brilliant minister and he is working incredibly
hard on transport, local government and.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
What's his relationships with Wellington. I'm sorry to interrupt. That
was really rude, but I don't apologize everything. What's his
relationships and me and Brown's relationship like with Tory.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Faro do you know, well, both him and I have
met with Tori, and you know we try and to
have professional relationships about you know, what that's going on.
But ultimately we have to respect that there is local
government and this is the system that we have and
you control.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
I mean, a Crown observer could clean it all up
for you and for me and for the people. Are well,
he said, I know you're getting a little bit frustrated
with my approach. I know that that's the vibe, that's
the vibe of the city, and you know that you
know that's the vibe of the city.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
Well, again, those will be decisions for Simon Brown to make.
I can tell you he's following things very closely, as
he does in all the other cities as well, and
he and I both do that and we talk regularly
about what we thinks needed and what we've decided is look,
we you know, I gave a pretty clear direction of
my speech as to what I what I expected from councils,
all councils across the country, some are doing an exceptionally
(10:48):
good job.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
You know, I ask you because Nichola Willison has been
critical of the council in the past. Do you think
that that our Wellington council is performing as they should be?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
No?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Great, that's we've got somewhere, We've got somewhere.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Well.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
No, I don't think you have to read you.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Know, I know, I mean, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I want all councils across the country one better.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
But you know, do I think Wellington is realizing it's
potential now I don't at the moment, And I think
it's a great city and it's got a fantastic future.
You think got lots of elements to it that other
cities don't have that can build a great proposition as
to why this city is special and important.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And it can do better.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Do you think that Simmy and Brown is the right
man to actually get us through this?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yes? Absolutely, So you've.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Got full confidence he's all over this.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
He is all over this like a rash. So you
do not worry.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Okay, thank you. Well, that's a great time to take
a break. We've been told by the Prime Minister that
do not worry. Syr Brown's got it under control, that
we're okay, Wellington Morning's worth Prime Minister Chris Hopkins, Chris Hapgins.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
How long it will take you?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Oh bloody hell, I blew it?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Love it?
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Heck?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
How did I do?
Speaker 5 (11:50):
That?
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Happens to both of us?
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Christopher Lux, I just lost my job. I can see
the written morning coming in hit me with the g
G d P numbers.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
What are we going to?
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Well, look, I mean they come out tomorrow. I haven't
seen them. Actually that's the process, so I don't get
to see them in advance. No, no, honestly don't don't. Honestly
don't see them. But there is obviously the four cars
are that they will still be negative, and that's not
surprising because it doesn't really matter what the numbers are.
It's clear that we're in a recession and we have
been now for a couple of years, and that sort
(12:21):
of whatever I need to understand is we have to
kind of relearn the lessons of economics over and over again,
and this generation is having to relearn it again now
because essentially it's very simple. It just comes down to
five things. One is, if you spend a lot of money,
as the previous guys, did you drive up inflation. When
you drive up inflation, you have to lift interest rates.
The only thing you can do. When you lift interest rates,
you then stop people from spending money because they don't
(12:42):
have it because they've got mortgage payments, and businesses don't
invest because they've got high costs. So then the economy
goes into recession. Many it shrinks, which is where we
are today. And then what happens is if businesses have
hung and through the inflation, interest rates and lower consumer
demand through a suppressed economy, they end up having to
lay off workers. And that's kind of where we are now.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
It's the lagger.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
How long do we have to hold on?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
That's what we're doing.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
So we got as you saw in the budget in
May when we came in, we've been quite tough and
basically discipline and that's why we've got the public service
focus and the spending under control. We're going to make
sure that discipline stays there. That has led to inflation
coming down from seven point three down to three point
three three point two. I think we should get into
the band, which is between one to three, hopefully in
the next quarter. The good news is that finally interest rates.
(13:23):
We had our first interest rate cut. That's fantastic. That
means we're on a downward trajectory now for the next wee.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
While how long do I have to hold on for
next year?
Speaker 4 (13:30):
You know, you've got different forecast say in the economy
will be growing positively, and that's a great thing. So
then we get the economic growth going. People now have
more money with lower interest rates to spend in the economy,
and then you actually get businesses wanting to invest long
term because they're confident. And the good news is business
confidence is at a ten year high, which is fantastic.
So people know it's see it's very tough, it's not tough,
(13:54):
but they are looking forward and going, we trust these
guys to actually sort this economy out to get it
back on.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
I'm one hundred percent sure that we trust you to
do right. I mean, that's what you got voted in for.
But how long do we have to wait?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well, when do you think.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
When you let us in next year? You know, if
you look at the forecast forecasting positive growth, which is fantastic.
So so if we move on, if we get more
interest rate cuts coming, we'll get that growth happening in
the economy that will then kick and give consumers more
free money to spend. I mean the amazing thing, isn't it?
You know, with that interest rate rise, it was so
fast that the f which person I remember looking at
it last year, had like a seven hundred dollars per
(14:28):
fortnite added to their interest bill. And because New Zealanders
have high numbers of fixed mortgages, they end up going
from low interest rates all of a sudden they got
this massive jump and they had to go find seven
hundred bucks a fortnite. So that's seven hundred bucks a
fortnite that could be spent in the economy in hospitality,
buying staff, you know, driving opportunity jobs.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Let's quick, because I know you're in a real tight
time thing, and I really cut a couple of means,
and now you go into Ryland Ferry Yeah, I mean
how close is there? Is there anything in cabinet if
we got to cabinet. I mean, we know the importance
of hopefully you know the importance of this still well
Inton and to New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Oh important?
Speaker 5 (15:04):
So is it to cabinet yet it's a new deal
and new Plan Plan B. Anything into Kevin.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Is ongoing conversations. But what we've had is a minister
first and foremost that the assets that we've got today
go out to the end of twenty twenty nine, right.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
So nothing's going to happen between us two.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
So the furies, actually the ones that we've got today,
why care we rail are completely operable up until twenty
twenty nine. They can be well maintained and be perfectly efficient,
work really well until that point.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So you're planning nothing happens to you.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
No, no, no, we're working on it now because we
have to because the lead time to get new boats
is what we need to use between now in twenty
twenty nine.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Has it gone to cabinet, No, not as a proposal.
But having said that, we have a ministerial advisory group.
You know that gave us a.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Bunch of you know, thoughts, and that's being discussed amongst
them ministers.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
But we will have a solution.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
But the point is, and we are very committed to it,
so don't you know, yeah, you shouldn't be anxious about it,
but we want to get the right solution because you
know what happened last time was you end up with
these boats, these big boats all of a sudden, then
you know, what was a six hundred million dollar project
blew out to three point two billion dollars or because
an eighty percent of the cost was actually in the
port adjustments and willing to pick.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Okay, can I put you in a scenario.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
Yeah, it's blowing a northwesterly and Wantington quite a tough
north westerly. You've just pulled up at the ferry terminal
with your with your caravan on your back, and you're
going down to Kakur with your wife and kids for
a little weekend.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Yeap.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Would you hop on the ferry tomorrow?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Would you hop on it this time next year?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yep? Yep?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
You've got full confidence?
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Yeah yeah, I mean so having run an airline and
you know, having run a looking at railway companies or
transport companies, and you know, whether it's trucks or trains,
or planes or rail you know, locomotives or ferries, it's
the same thing. You basically, you determine the life of
an asset, and so this asset can actually got these
assets go out to you twenty twenty nine, and then
(16:50):
you have regular maintenance and scheduled maintenance that actually make
sure that those assets are maintained and so that's that's
important that in Kimi Rao they've got a massive obligation
like in New Zealand does on maintaining its aircraft fleet,
to do exactly the same thing.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
Okay, quickly, quickly, because I know I'm on your time
scale and I want to rush you both. I know
you've gone more important, more other things to do today.
The transport plan a few weeks ago was huge, for one,
in the second Mount Victoria tunnel, which has been talked
about for years, and I know the government is looking
into this mega tunnel now, the long tunnel option a
long time option. Now, I've spoken to somebody who didn't
(17:23):
know that I was in media, didn't have a clue
who I was, and he told me that he was
involved in that and he reckons that it's a deal.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
He reckons the tunnel from terrorists to.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
Kill Bernie is a plan and it should be done
when he was head of that job.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Well, we came here at the government and what we
found out as no one had done the consideration on
the long tunnel option. And actually, you know we've got
we've got clarity on the on the on the tunnel
replacement as it was. But actually Simeon has done the
right thing, which is to say, look, actually we want
We've got that option understood. We know what's involved with
replacing it directly. But if there is actually the second option,
called the long tunnel option, that could be the better
(17:59):
answer long term. It could what's your gut on that, Well,
he's gonna he'll come out and say something about it shortly,
but we are we do genuine need to do the
work on that because I said to him, well, I
don't really want to go spend billions of dollars doing
a tunnel replacement if there is a better option that
actually for the list.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
Is there a chance that you're going to come back
to us, you know, because it was spades in the
shovels in the ground before, in this period of your
of your of your leadership, is there a chance that
you could come back to us in the year's time,
with two years time and say, look, we're not going
to get shovels in the ground, but we are now
going to go to this major tunnel from the terrace,
which is going to be fantastic.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Again.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
What I've what something I've discussed is said, look, we
need to get a tunnel. Replacement's one hundred years old.
We've got forty thousand vehicles going through there a day.
It's it's well pasted, its useful life. So we need
a new tunnel. We know that option of replacement, as
we've talked and everyone's talked about in the past. But
what we have is this long tunnel option. And so
I've said to him, ligitally, take your time, actually make
sure you get it right, because i getting it right
(18:55):
is actually important because you've got decades ahead of.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
You once you get it completed, and you want it
done proper.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
So you're not quite as convinced.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Well know, by the end of this year, come out,
you know, and he'll shortly have a view as to
whether it's the long tunnel option or the other option.
And let's get clear as to what scenario we're going for,
and then it's full court present.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
I've sort of got a gut feeling just talking to
you and talking to people around town that that's sick
that long tunnel might.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Be the go.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Well, it's just that it's a really attractive option because
I think you know in theory and so but you've
got to understand what that all means. And so that's
where he's at and that's what he's got to do
that work and fairness to him before he can talk
you probably further about it.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Been great catching up. I know that I had, I
had to rush through things.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
It's like speed dating with you.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Well, sorry, I apologize, I apologize that we go through
some stuff, but I mean it's a pleased to have you.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And let's do it again. Sometimes it'll be great.
Speaker 5 (19:42):
I'd love Prime Minister Christopher likeson I've got your name
right even gosh, well done.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Maybe I won't get two written warnings on one day.
Enjoy the rest of the week and good to catch
up again.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Thanks and I really appreciate what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
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