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September 25, 2024 19 mins

The parents of students out of school for more than 15 days each year are in line to be prosecuted under new government guidelines, which also includes the removal of teacher-only days.

Is this the right move, and what impact will it have on truancy numbers? 

To answer that, National's MP for Wairarapa Mike Butterick and Labour's health and Wellington issues spokesperson Ayesha Verrall joined Nick Mills. 

Also on the agenda was the government's working from home guidance for public sector staff, and the resignation of Andrew Coster as police commissioner. 

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings Used Talk said B.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Politician, can you make a right decision for all.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Of joining us for politics Thursday? This week is Labour's
health and Wellington's issue spokesperson is Saviril that morning. I
don't know why I always make that emphasis on issues.
I've got issues.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
I always like Wellington's got a shoe?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Do you think you you missed the you missed the
wrong department and your biitical strateg You should have taken
sociology psychology Wellington's.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Oh my gosh, that was quite funny. Is stand up
Comic and your next life? National MP for Wirerapper Mike
good Morning.

Speaker 5 (01:02):
Mike, Morning, Morning, Morning, Isaoday.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
Okay, it's just the being announced. The Government's just announced it,
so let's start with it. Let's start with truancy. About
half an hour ago, the Associate so Sociate Education Minister
David Seymour revealed his new plan to keep kids in school.
Teacher only days are now banned. It's got no real
reason for keeping kids at school, but anyway, teacher only

(01:28):
days are now banned, and students who are away from
school for more than fifteen days a year could see
their parents prosecuted. I show this seems really tough. What
do you make of it?

Speaker 4 (01:41):
Well, we'll see. And I think my understanding of the
announcement is that there isn't a change to the powers
that ministry and so on already has with respect to this,
both the teacher on the days and the prosecutions. But
I think just noting that the statistics released today showed

(02:02):
a little upteck in the number of children attending and
I think that's a real sigh that there is improvement
with those initiatives that were put in while we were
in government, which is encouraging, but obviously lots more to do.
And you won't find any objection to the importance of
addressing this problem problem from us. One of the concerns
we have hurt is that some of the you know,

(02:24):
there's often quite complicated situations behind the kids who aren't
attending school. So we had these engagement workers officers working
with kids in schools and some of them are being cut,
including from schools schools in the Wellington region as well.
So a bit worried that something we know is starting
to make a difference isn't isn't going to have its

(02:45):
funding continue.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
I'll come back to you Ei Shure on this as well.
But Mike, I kind of feel that it's going to
be a bit of a controversial thing when they getting
rid of teachers only days, because this is where they
do all their planning, and I mean, what's going to
happen for that Now they're going to take days off
sick and do it from home and have relievers filling in.

Speaker 5 (03:04):
Yeah, yeah, we'll look at I'm a quarter back short
on this. I've been stuck in slept committee. Well, shouldn't
say stuck and slept me. I've been in sleet committee.
So but I think, look, in terms of what I
just said, it is important. I don't think anyone would
dispute the fact that we look we want at kids
in school, and I think it's really good that we're
talking about it, and that just brings into focus how

(03:24):
important it is. It's pretty hard to learn if you're
not sitting.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
I asked you, specifically asked you, Mike, Sorry, I asked
you about the teachers on any day. That's what I
really want to get a view on because you know,
I think this is going to be pretty controversial.

Speaker 5 (03:41):
Well, look, every day that the kids aren't you know,
if teachers only day, the kids aren't in the classroom,
and if we look at our education achievements, we need
to lift their bar and lift the outcomes. So it's
about trying to get the kids back in the classroom.
And just in terms of what I just said about
some of the complexity with some of the kids, and
that is that is right, and I think it's it's

(04:03):
not just necessarily a government. I think it's a community
and school problem to help solve. And we've actually seen
a really good program in the wire Eppa where that's
happened and the results have been quite outstanding in terms
of getting the kids back to school with some really
good stories.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
I Shad, can do you know exactly how many teachers
only days there is or does it differ between schools?

Speaker 4 (04:27):
Yeah, I don't to be honest, Probably at our school
comes up two or three times a year.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
As it seems like it's every every tur It seems
like every every break, doesn't it.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
Yeah, Look, I guess as someone who had a frontline
job in medicine. You cannot be one hundred percent of
your time facing facing patients, and I imagine you can.
I'm in ore of people who spend a large amount
of their day with little children. They do need time
to plan and get their lessons organized and think about

(04:58):
how how they're supporting the ones with special needs and
so on in the in the class, and that that
does require time away from that. And I guess my
understanding of the announcement is that this has got to
now happen in school holiday time and not in term time.
So you know, those tasks are important and it needs
to does need to It does need to happen, otherwise

(05:21):
education will suffer.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Mike, I should have said that the truancy situation has
improved since you've come into government, or but she feels
it stuff that they've done. What do you how do
you reply to that?

Speaker 5 (05:35):
I think, yes, that it has improved, but we've still
got a long way to go. But I think the
fact that we're spending a lot of time talking about
getting our kids back in school and talking about the numbers,
that's a good thing because it just focuses not only
us as government, but schools and parents on how important

(05:56):
it is to get our kids at.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
School right, Let's move on. Public service. Minister Nicola Willis
announced on Monday and new guidelines for public sector bosses.
They want people were back in the office and they
want ministries to keep records. Believe in a lot of
how many people are working from home, Mike, this feels
a bit toothless. Why didn't the government just order staff

(06:17):
back to work in the office like Amazon did? Basically
Jeff Bezos, well, his CEO said from January, everyone's back
in the office, start finish ed.

Speaker 5 (06:28):
Yeah, I wasn't aware that that's what he's done. But
in terms of the walk, we're working from home, I think,
and I'm a little bit reluctant to use the phrase
given what's eppened in large blood of aar Electric with
the cyclone. But it's been a bit of a perfect
storm in a lot of ways. You know, we've had
a recession or in you know, you've got parking issues
or act the here off. You know, people have also

(06:50):
learned to shop online, so all those things have sort
of been accumulating or they are accumulative, and you know,
and it's I think it's were really you think about
when you work with people in a physical environment, you
get good culture, get access to people that are experienced
and rest of it. And from Wellington's perspective, you know
they might even grab a coffee or grab it buy

(07:10):
at lunchtime or ever bere with a few.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Saying all that might that's great and that's fantastic, But
why didn't you actually make an announcement.

Speaker 5 (07:19):
Well, look, it's that there's always been a few provisions
for people to work from home, but this is a
bit of a carryover from from COVID obviously, and it's
sort of almost become normalized. So we've just created some
expectations around the ministries in terms of monishing it, which
the heads of the recording so we can see works technique.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
So I show as far as I see this is
by the way, you've got a record where you starff
are and what they're doing. Wow, that's pretty amazing and
we're looking at it again in a few more months time.
It was an announcement about getting some time on TV
and nothing else.

Speaker 4 (07:53):
It was a total performance because let's go back to
what is the what is the factor that's underpinning the
troubles Wellington's economy is having. It is the loss of
six thousand public sector jobs that has disproportionately impacted our city.
That means that hospitality in our city is well below
the national trend in terms of its earnings, and that

(08:17):
is what's hurting New Zealanders people in our city. And
what this announcement's done is just a performance in order
to pretend that something is being done for local hospitality.
But the fact is, Nikola Willis knows that public sector
ces have legal obligations that she has not changed with
her guidance, and some of those staff will have a

(08:40):
legal right to work from home. There is a cost
of living challenge, which means that even if staff did
return to the office, they may choose to pack their lunch.
So I think it was a totally disingenuous announcement to
sort of be able to waive at the economic problems
that our city have while actually doing nothing. Totally cynical.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Mike, how do you respond to that? Oh, Mike, how
do you respond to what I should just told it?

Speaker 5 (09:06):
Well, apologies that I just dropped out. My phone dropped out,
so I missed that, Okay.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
So I should basically said it was like I was
an announcement about nothing, and it wasn't. Because of the
contractual arrangements that's already in place, she can't do anything
about it.

Speaker 5 (09:21):
No, it's not an announcement about nothing. You know. Agencies,
you know, we're asking them to monitor the prevalence and
the impact that working from homes and actually report about
the number of the nature of agreements they've got in place.
And you know, working from home arrangements they're not an entitlement.
They should always be by agreement between the employee and

(09:42):
the employee.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
What's the time frame, Mike, When are we going to
find out how many people have got in their contracts
that basically they can work from home whenever they want.

Speaker 5 (09:51):
Lot. Good question, and that's something I don't have the
answer to.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
I'm sorry, Okay, no problem, that's good. Let's talk about
Police Commissioner Andrew Costa. He's off, he's leaving. He's been
appointed to as the new chief executive of the Social
Investment Agency. I shall has Andrew Costa been a good
police commissioner or did he drop the ball?

Speaker 5 (10:14):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Look, I think he was a good police commissioner. He
was a very intelligent man who had to deal with
a lot of challenges, including being Police Commissioner during COVID
and the Parliament protests and so on. I think, you know,
he'll be well suited as well to that Social Investment Agency.

(10:35):
I think that's a good pick for him because some
of the work he did was about that approach to
crime and justice issues, particularly for youth and retail crime,
where he did get agencies working together to get some
of these young people who were starting to engage in
ram raids and so on, working with them their families

(10:58):
sorting out quite complex social situations in order to bring
the rate of ramraids down. So I think he's really
well qualified for that new role.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
National and Opposition were very tough on Andrew Costa. They
said that he was soft on crime and he was
soft soft. Is this why he's gone.

Speaker 5 (11:17):
That? I think come first and foremost. I would just
like to thank him for a service, and he did
serve as Commissioner through a pretty tough period. Really. Look,
I think Andrew Costa he's incredibly articulate and intelligent person,
but you know, in a large way he was constrained
by the expectations from the previous government and I think

(11:39):
he responded extremely well to the renewed letter of expectation
from Mark Mitchell, and I think he'll do an extremely
good job in the Social Investment Agency, and that's actually
something I'm really excited about.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Realistically, Realistically he you know, he had Ginny Anderson coming
out saying he was too hard work for Mitchell and
Costa to get on. They never saw out of eyes
as fair.

Speaker 5 (12:04):
No, it's not. I think you will delivered a leader
of expectation. And Andrew Costa responded extremely well, Yeah, I
think he's done a very good job since we've taken I.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
Reckon it was too hard for them. Reckon, they just
couldn't get on. And you know, now he's basically just
given his notice like me and you wold in a
nine to five job, isn't he.

Speaker 4 (12:27):
Look, I don't have any insights into how they got on,
and I do think, you know, crime is a serious issue,
and if we make it about the personalities of particular
public servants, well it's actually worse off for New Zealanders.
And so all of this performance about whether someone's tough
or soft on crime is I don't have much taste

(12:51):
for fact.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
For all those positions that are supposedly non political I mean,
you know, a lot of them are just going and
getting kicked out and leaving. I mean, come on, they
are political positions, aren't they.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
Well, they shouldn't be politicized, and of course they have to,
you know, a senior chief executive and the public service
or a commissioner has to have a political and tenure.
But I think when politicians start going at officials in
order to make some sort of point about different approaches
to police or justice policy, I think it's I think

(13:22):
it's pointless. I think it makes it harder for everyone
to do their job, and in the end, we don't
make any problem progress on the issues that matter.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
Okay, let's go on to their inter Island fairies, because
it's been in a few interesting stories in the last
few days about the inter Islander replacement. It seems it's
kind of like a split between the government and Winston Peters. Well,
Winston Peter's is part of the coalition, but there seems
to be a bit of a split whether they have
railed and able fairies. But Nicola Willis isn't keen Winston
Peters wants them. Prime Minister has told us on the

(13:52):
Very Show last week there's no plan has gone to
cabinet yet. I'm getting getting a little bit concerned about this, Mike.
How long before it goes to cabinet? And what are
you hearing?

Speaker 5 (14:03):
I think it's not really for me to comment on
any ministerial or KEBNET discussions, obviously.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
But you're on here to represent your coalition government and
give us the information. I mean, if you can't give
us the thing, maybe we should look for someone else
that can give us the stuff on the show.

Speaker 5 (14:20):
Look, we are focused on getting the right solution right
for it and they've got to be safe, they've got
to be reliable, and they've got to be resilient. And
you know it is how.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Far away are we from getting it to go.

Speaker 5 (14:32):
To can't give you a time frame on that.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
Is there any discussion? Is there talk about it? Are
we getting any closer or are we just treading water?
Pardon the pun?

Speaker 5 (14:41):
No, Look, Neck, I'm not probably to the discussions that
go on and keepnet as you would be well aware of.
But you know, look at decision is going to be
made once the best options available.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Hire do you know anything? Do you think is there
a splitter? Do we need rail on rail off ferries?
I would tend to think that we do.

Speaker 4 (15:01):
Yeah, that's my view as well. And I think that
you know, the ability to get containers from trains onto
the ferries without having to without having an excessive amount
of handling there is really important. It means that it's

(15:22):
really important to the GDP of the South Island, and
it means that we have other more sustainable transport options
in our network for moving freight. I don't know why
you would want the cheap, cheaper option here unless the
government has given itself no room to move because of
the real situation it's in because it chose to do

(15:43):
those tax cuts.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
Tim, Are we just buying time here? Are we just
just sort of making Mike sorry? Are we just are
we trying to just be, you know, buy some time
here and make sure that keep people interested in women
who really aren't any closer?

Speaker 5 (15:59):
No, No, we're not nick in terms of and just
in regards your query about the rail option, I don't know,
and I'm certainly not over of the economics of the
rail option versus not having a rail option, And I
would imagined there be another factors to consider their handling, efficiency, cost,
all those things. But no, look at it's important that
we get the right decision and it's going to be

(16:20):
fiscally responsible, responsible, and you know we, as Nicholas said,
we don't want the Ferrari option, just good old highlights
that gets the job done.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
Good question I have about that that Mike has, if
the fiscally responsible option by what you mean balancing the
government's box because the government's in such a situation because
those tax cuts meant there was so little room to
move in the government's budget. If that cuts off opportunities
for us to grow our economy, well, I think that
is a really difficult you know, that's a really important

(16:52):
decision for the country that sets us back.

Speaker 5 (16:55):
Yeah. Well, the situation that you refer to Aisha is
it's called a recession, and we've got one hundred billion
dollars of debt, and you know, the original Fairy option
was I think was about circus seven hundred and fifty million,
which blew out to a bit over three billion dollars.
Was not a responsible decision. And you know, we do
need No one's disputing that we do need reliable ferry

(17:18):
services that are efficient. But it doesn't mean to say
that we need to always go straight to the ferrari
than the trophy capnet.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
The longer we sort of leave this, the more chance
is going to be. I mean, I know when the
Prime Minister was on the show, he said that the
fairies are fined to twenty twenty nine. I mean, you know,
we're into two thousand and thirty before we see something
and that's kind of a concern for Walingtonians. Anyway, let's
move on. It seems to be an issue that everyone
wants to talk about at the moment, even cross parties.

(17:46):
A four year term Prime minister said last week it's
possible there'll be a referendum this at this next election.
I do labor agree with the idea of a four year.

Speaker 4 (17:55):
Term, well personally I do, but our view is that
it should be the subject of a referendum, and I
think one of one of my colleagues, Deputy Leader Carmel Cipoloni,
has a members bill in the ballot for a four
year term with a referendum. So the thing is it
has to go to the peak to the people. In
my view, we have really big challenges, you know, and

(18:17):
some of the infrastructure issues that we've been talking about,
climate change pretty much election year politicians spend all their
time campaigning, not working, and well, that is our work,
and so that's two years to get your teeth into
the really serious problems our country face. And I personally
think four years would be good, but it needs a referendum.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
Okay, Mike, do you think three years has good enough?
I mean, you come from a rural background or a
bit rural area. I'm sure that they would say three
years is long enough in case the government does badly.

Speaker 5 (18:49):
No, Look, I think a four year term, you know,
I support what I should said and what the Prime
Minister said. You know, it just disappears in the blink
of an eye. We've been here twelve months now, and
I think you know, the general thing is that political
parties or new government spend sort of the year getting
to grips with everything, the next year doing stuff from
the last year campaigning. And I think from a deliberable

(19:13):
point of view, an efficiency point of view, four years
is palitable. But I think you know it'll probably go
may go to a referendum.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, I think it should go to a referendum. I
disagree with four years myself, but anyway, that's not much.
Not just you guys to make them decide us to
vote on IT II. Severil and Mike Butterick, thank you
both for joining us this morning. Appreciate you giving up
your valuable time to come on the show and inform
Wellingtonians of what's happening in your part of the political world.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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