October 9, 2024 • 23 mins
There was good news for mortgage holders yesterday as the Reserve Bank lowered the official cash right by 50 basis points. Are our politicians hoping for another 50 basis point drop later this year?
Also, the Auditor General is highly critical of a $24m contract awarded to Mike King's Gumboot Friday charity without a competitive process. Was the government out of line?
To answer those questions, Labour's police spokesperson Ginny Andersen and National's Wairarapa MP Mike Butterick joined Nick Mills for Politics Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
B Shine, can you make your decision joining us for
politics Thursday. This week is Labor Police spokesperson Ginny Anderson.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Morning, Jenny, Good morning, Mack. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Couldn't be better? How are you good?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I'm not too bad at all? Yeah, really good, nice
sunny day.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
It wasn't sunny when I came to work this morning.
It was peeing down a National's wire rapper m P.
Mike Butterick. What's the weather like in the wire rapper?
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Mike, Yeah, Good morning, morning Jenny. You know, we've just
had a few study shares come through a sort of
a a bit of a free should suddenly this morning.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
That's it. Yeah, you don't want to be in the
wire rapper during a suddenly. The anytime you want to
be in the wire EpoR when the weather is perfect.
Let's start with the ocr down fifty basis points and
an announcement from the Reserve Bank yesterday. Great news for
mortgage holders, good news for the economy, good news, Jinny.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, it is good news and iver Look, I know
how many families out there doing it tough with those
mortgage payments that have been so tough over the past
couple of years, but unemployment still pretty high. Yeah, there's
a lot of New Zealanders who have lost their jobs recently,
and we just we need higher wages and more jobs
as well as inflation coming down. And the other point
(01:42):
I'd make is that eighty five thousand New Zealanders have
left our country to go elsewhere, so that's something we
need to really think about to make sure we keep
our economy growing.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Totally agree, Mike. Can the new government take credit for
this or is it just the economy beginning to settle down.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Yeah. Look, I think certainly one of the contributors to
the inflation that we had been experiencing it was the
amount of money that had been tipped in by the government,
so certainly did play a part. But I think yesterday
you had a collective side around the country. Look, it's
good news, but you know, the cost of living crisis
hasn't gone away and won't go away just because the
(02:21):
ocr has dropped. You know, we've still got to keep
our focus on being responsible. But I think look in
terms of the o CR, that will help give people
a little bit of a confidence and confidence as I've
mentioned before on your show, it's a great thing because
it will you know, people may just decide to do
a few things and make a few decisions that they
(02:42):
probably weren't going to prior to that. So look at
it's good news and it and I don't think that
it's finished either yet.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Jenny talking about not being finished yet, are you hoping
for another fifty basis points in this year later on
when it comes out?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
It seems that that's kind of on cards. But I mean,
when you're seeing so many drops put in over a
short period of time, that's reflective of the poor state
to our economy. So to see those keep coming shows
that it is so stagnant. And a big part of
that was all of the construction workers that have leaft
New Zealand over fifty thousand gone. So with all those
(03:19):
big infrastructure projects frozen, it's going to be a long
time to heat those back up and get workers back
on deck. So that's a big challenge looking.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Forward, Mike, we are losing some real quality New Zealanders
at the moment.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Why look, you know, obviously for a number of reasons,
isn't it. But there's no doubt we've been in a recession.
But I think, you know, there will be a number
of factors that are starting to I guess up to
turning that around a little bit.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
But Mike, Mike, can I just interrupt there? Surely if
those young people or older people, doesn't I mean, I'm
not age restricting them that are leaving. You don't have
the confidence in your government, otherwise they'd be staying and
fighting it through with you.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I look, that's you know, we've got a number of
number of things in play which will help grow, help
deliver it growth to the economy, and you know, the
challenges to try and get our economy going, get growth,
get opportunities. And there were a lot of those people
back and you know, I think we're on the right
track for doing that. So we're certainly getting in a
different direction. Regarding the fifty another fifty basis points, I
(04:23):
wouldn't like to speculate. It would be great if we
did get another cup before Christmas? Would wouldn't that be
a good Christmas present for everybody?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Definitely? What Jenny, why are so many quality new Zealanders leaving.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Well, I've got an interesting story. I've got a mate
who's labor and funnily enough, he's the property developer and
he saw this announcement by Chris Bishop that they're going
to start underwriting again, and he's like, I've looked at it,
I've checked it out. It looks it looks like it
could stack up. Why are they doing this? And I
thought about it. And so they came in and they
stopped all the underwriting through come or Order and through
(04:57):
key we Build. And if you look at that, after that,
all the construction projects freed up and they all start
going to Ossie to other jobs. And so the government
has realized that tanked the economy a bit, particularly on
construction and those big projects. And so this underwrite is
a good demonstration that they're trying to reverse what they've
(05:17):
done to restart some of those big construction projects that
are no longer going.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Is that right, Mike, No, Look.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
I think some of the stuff that have been paused
it we had to have a reset. We had to
make sure that we lifted up the bond and had
a look and make sure we were delivering efficient, cost
effective projects. And that's the responsible thing to do. But
you know, I think in terms of some of we
may chat about the fast Track, I've had a bit
of a tot up. There's about potentially not quite eight thousand,
(05:47):
two hundred to put over eight and a half thousand houses,
you know, potentially planned in the fast Track. So I
mean that's pretty significant for the Willington region. So that's
all great news, and that will help attract those people back.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Right, let's move on things a sarma around looking at
great right now, our navy mana Manui ran aground, caught
fire and sunk on Sunday. And while most of the
fuel seems to be contained, some is leaked, and they're
big fears for the environment. Mike, whatever it costs, I
assume you're going to clean this up.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Yeah, And so look, Nick, I guess the first thing
I would do is a big shout out to the
men and woman of our Defense force that were on
that ship. You know, my heart goes out to them.
I'm sure they're absolutely devastated by what occurred. And I
think Judith Collins probably summed it up beast when she
said it could have been very bad and now it's
just bad, and that was in relation to that. They
(06:43):
all got off safely, So that's first and foremost, and
obviously now the focus has got to go on trying
to mitigate any environmental impacts.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Ginny, if you zoom out and look at the Defense
Force as a whole, go up and hop in the
helicopter and look down on it, things don't look that good.
Terrible housing, attrition, ancient planes for the Prime Minister and
Defense Force to use. And now we can't even take
this Fence Force seriously enough. Do they need more funding?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Well they do, and they were one of the many
all the government agencies that had to fire. And six
point five percent cuts any budget, so that you know,
part of the inquiry I hope on the Monu Anui
will establish whether it was funding cuts, so you know
that they got a couple of billion dollars less to
run that whole outfit when they've already got failing infrastructure.
(07:35):
And the sad thing about Monima Nui is that was
just pretty new. That was twenty nineteen. That's a state
of the art piece of equipment.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well it was it. You you brought it to be
fed to be fed, Jenny. You bought it secondhand and
converted it.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
It wasn't in our fleet in terms of what we
have that had the ability to actually lift up, had
a big crane to lift up and rescue other boats.
So now our rescue boat is at the bottom of
the sea. So that makes it really hard for other
assistance to happen in other navy vessels.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Mich Will that ship be replaced in manro Minue.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
There's something I obviously can't speculate on. Nick knows.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
But they're talking. What are they talking? What are they saying?
I mean that they're talking about.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
I mean there is an updated Defense Capability Plan, or
a DCP they call it. That's due that's outlining major
investments I think up to about twenty and forty and
I think that's going to be considered by cabinet later
this year. So as to what shape or form that
looks like, we'll just have to wait and see. But
(08:39):
I do notice you mentioned attrition. It was very high,
but that has reduced quite a lot. It's come down
from about fifteen percent to just a bit over eight
half percent at the end of all this this year,
so there's a pretty impressive improvement in that.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Will there be some more money given to the military.
I mean, we've got a bit of a problem. The
Defense Force has got a bit of an issue, hasn't it.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Yeah, there certainly has been some stresses, and I don't
think anyone would dispute that. But you know, there was
new funding of five hundred and seventy odd million in
the budget for them. So look again, we're just got
to wait and see what this Defense Capability Plan outlines
in terms of what the game plan is out until
twenty forty.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Well, we know what it's going to be, don't we, Jenny.
They're not going to spend any money. They're trying to
pull back everything. So they're going to try and give
these guys a part time work. The seventy five that
of guys and women that have been pulled off Mari Minue.
They're going to be just sitting around doing some part
time work, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Well, you can't have it both ways. Mike's saying that,
you know that the whole reason of inflation is government spending,
but we know that it's global factors like oil prices
that drive inflation. What they're doing is cutting when labored.
We're in over the last six years four point seven
billion capital was invested over that time, and it's double
(10:00):
what National did in the previous nine years. So yep
they'll cut and yes we'll see their infrastructure get even worse.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Let's talk about a story that came out yesterday. It's
about twenty four million dollars the government gave to Mike
King's counsel and provided gun Boot Friday. The Order to
General has come out and says the contract was unusual
and inconsistent and there was no competitive or fair process
for the contract and it didn't allow for usual rules. Mike,
(10:28):
this was money for the boys, wasn't it. It was
too early in the piece. It was just as the
coalition was formed, and let's just dish out a bit
of cash before we had to put our heads in.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
No, no, it was really wasn't the chop for the
boys neck lock. The first timing I would make is
and I actually know a few young people that have
accessed the I Am Hope Foundation or the gun Boot
Friday and look, they do amazing work. They've got to
proven trek record or delivery.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I don't think there's any question. But hold on, hold on,
hold on, Mike, just hold on, No, no, no, I
want you I want you to hold on a second.
There's no doubt that what Mike King and I that
does is great and fantastic. We're not having a crack
at that. We're having a crack at a process when
you were telling everyone to pull their heads in and
don't spend money. This money came out, bang bang bang
and was gone.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Look, it was important that we did invest in mental health,
and I don't know that anyone would dispute the need
for that, Nick, but you know the Minister throughout that
whole process, he saw and received assurance from the officials
that you know that the option chosen by the Ministry
of Health was compliant with procurement rules and that was
(11:35):
GUNB Friday was a proven, well known initiative.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
But why didn't they get opposition when they look at
someone else? The Order to General has come out and
says the contract was unusual and inconsistent. You can't argue
with that.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
So look, the decision to fund the fund the GUNB
Friday that was a decision made by government. Yes, how
that commitment was implemented though, was a decision made by
the Ministry of Health which they made.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Jinny, is this right?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I'm sorry No, it wasn't made by the Ministry of Health.
It was a director by the government because it was
part of their coalition agree and what their Auditor General
has quite clearly said as a commitment and a coalition
agreement does not mean that you can bypass a proper
procurement process. And the whole purpose of transparent democracy is
(12:20):
that everyone should have a go at saying you know,
whether their service can provide the best outcome for people,
and that process did not happen. They picked a winner.
You nothing against Mike King, I've met him, I've heard
him speak. He's a great guy. But Vibe in the
Hut Valley Save Lives. They work with young people on
a daily basis to help people cope with depression, anxiety
(12:42):
and a bunch of other stuff going on in their lives.
Why weren't they given the opportunity to bid for that
contract and why didn't they give more opportunities for mental
health service providers to access funding. It's just not fair
and it looks like mates and mates scratching each other's
back kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
One hundred percent. And there's another great facility in Wellington
and the Saint James Building. They're doing an amazing thing
as well, got no funding, got cut. This this might
I'm sorry, but this does not look good.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
No, yes, yes, I said Nick. I mean the minister
he did see and a sort of assurance from the officials,
but he.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Didn't go into the marketplace. He didn't go out into
the marketplace. He knew you know, they were, they were
asking questions themselves, the officials.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Yeah, so I mean, look, he was. He did seek
assurance and he was given assurance that it was compliant
with those procurement rules and not. I haven't seen the
details of the Auditor generals myself report myself, so but
you know, I reiterate the Minister did seek assurance and
was given it.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Well, those comments or those statement by the Auditor generals
in the paper and so on all media. So I'm
a little bit surprised you came on the show not
not having read that, knowing that that was a topic
that we were going to talk about.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
I was thinking yesterday, last night and again this morning.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So thanks for taking the show as high priority. The
bunch of projects under the fast Track Law has been announced,
and for Willington there's more than eight thousand new homes,
a small seawall at the airport and a mega tunnel
of the government signs offered Ginny off. All these projects
get off the ground, that's blooming good news for Willing
and surely this fast track legislation is a good idea.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
It's probably good news for National considering twelve of them
donated to the National Party, so you know these are
the more stuff for you're rolling on from the last story.
Twelve of those put on the fast track list gave
significant donations to either National Act or New Zealand. First,
over five hundred thousand dollars was given to bypass environmental consents,
(14:49):
to bypass treaty provisions and to simply steam train on through.
Some of those projects previously were declined because they degraded
our environment in polluted rivers. But through this process of
giving donation and getting a quick tick off, they're back
on the charts.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Is this starting to come through a little bit, Mike,
isn't it? Jobs for the boys and looking after your
own are not?
Speaker 4 (15:12):
There's completely out you Nick, completely like I dispute all
of those comments there, but look it is great. We
have a house in christ and look there is procedures
for managing conflicts of interest which have been stuck to.
But in terms of Lord Wellington, it's great news. I
(15:34):
think there's about two hundred eight thousand and six seven
hundred houses. I mean that's great a tunnel or end
or a longer tunnel, because there's no doubt that we've
got challenges and head challenges in this country for actually
doing anything and getting on with it. And at the
start of the show we talked about these people heading
overseas well. If we want to retain them or lure
(15:55):
them back, we need to get on and do stuff
and have a pipeline of work in the Fast Track Bill.
I think it's really exciting in terms of what it
could deliver for the country that we desperately desperately need it.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Can I just quickly ask you if you both liked
the idea of the long tunnel from the Terrace to
Colberty Jinny.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yes, it depends on the cost and being able to
do it well, but yes, I think we really need
to look at issues around Wellington and having to be
the capital city and to have our traffic reduced into
one lane when getting to the airport is always going
to be a real problem for us.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Mike, what do you think?
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Yeah, yeah, you're right, Nick, And I think obviously Willington
has the geographic challenges. I think I'm not on in
plum minds ester, which will be the best one. But
I think the old editors do it once and do
it properly, do your research, do it well, cost it well,
deliver it on budget, and do it under a fast
tracked bill so we can actually crack on and get
it done. I mean, I think it's all good stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Okay, Health New Zealand released hunds.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yes, Jenny, I'd say, well last thing, thanks.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Sorry.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Just out of those twelve who did donate, eight to
National one of them a climal order development to stop that,
and Bishop actually wrote a support leader to that private developer.
So now the clime of order under the funding has
been cut and the private developer is now receiving the
(17:26):
fast track. So I mean that's just a really clear
example of where you head, state housing being built, that
being cut, a private developer who's donating to the National
Party now receiving consent and assistance, and to me, that
just smells really bad.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Mike, do you want to reply to that?
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Look, I think there's completely unfear and look, this is
about delivering housing, which we're talking about housing is sufficiently
and aspectively as we can, and a private enterprise can
do it cheaper and well deliver on all those Logically
we should go with us because at the end of
the day, it's the experts money.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Potentially a bit cheaper, okay, profiting from it.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Okay, let's go move on to health. New Zealand released
hundreds of pages of financial reports this week and it's
not good reading. The deficit and the health system is
now projected to be one point eight billion by the
end of the financial year, a lot bigger than the
one point four billion first expected. Mike. The government is
trying to cut costs, but promised frontline services won't be effected.
Surely this if this continues to blow out, frontline service
(18:27):
will take a hat.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Look, our focus is very much on making sure policies
aren't making sure we deliver on those front night services.
But it is serious, Nick, one point eight billion dollars,
that's a pretty serious deficit and it just shows, you know,
and it appeared very very quickly as well, which just
shows how the health end board. You know, we're completely
(18:51):
almost caught by surprise and unaware of that the extent
until it was too late. Right, you know, the situation
yet has continued to deteriorate. We've put less delivery in there,
and you know that's a very serious thing to have done,
is to put a commissioner in there. So we are
taking it very very seriously, Jenny.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
What's causing this? Is the house system spending too much money?
Or is it just that it's underfunded and they need
the government needs to put more money in.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Wouldn't we get the facts straight here? Tafatu orders box
reveal just how much the government has been gaslighting New
Zealanders on this one. That the opening those books shows
it more than five hundred million of Kafatu orders deficit
was caused by Cabinet deciding not to transfer the funds
put aside for pay equity for nurses, for midwives and
(19:40):
for allied health staff. So it's very hard to see
how the miners can say there's no recruitment freese of
frontline staff when it's very clear from these documents as
early as April this year there's been a free which
means we've got no health staff. So they didn't want
to pay them more and they've stopped hiring them. And
that's a big part of the problem that kews are
(20:01):
saying when they try to get health service is now.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Mike, we are hearing stories of nurses lining up for
hours for interviews and giving their cvs and told that
there's no jobs. I mean, it is a bad situation,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
You know, there's a significant deficit, but you know, I
would say, you know, there was a record uplift in
this year's budget. It was around about thirty billion a
year and that was actually more than what the previous
labor government ever promised to do. So there is a
significant investment into our health system. But obviously there are
(20:37):
some challenges. The restructure done has obviously not been that
effective as yet. There's been a whole lot of backroom
additional jobs editing. So we are very much focused on
delivering frontline services in part with targets, having targets, because targets,
(20:57):
they are very a very responsible thing to do. They
give you something to aim at. But you know, there
has been some good stuff this week. You've been a
relatively good health week. You know, there's a million dollar
pilot program announced partnering with Plunket to get kids vaccinated.
And I do note they're talking about the potential of
the measles outbreak, so that's really important and it's one
(21:20):
of our key targets is to increase vaccinations. Have been
a funding boost for parmestan ed of six million dollars, so.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
You know we are getting it is it is frontline.
Like you can't say it's back office when there's a
shortage of three thousand nurses and you've got a recruitment
freeze on, you know, and hospital people are having to
be transported into Wellington because there's not enough staff there.
They're carrying shortages of boarding fifteen people in one department
(21:50):
and we know that they've been told they're not allowed
to hire or go to market. So you can't say
that your government has just cut back office and made
frontline better because it's the absolute off opposite. You've cut everything,
including frontline.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
On that you know, there has been a significant increase
in frontline staff. You know, nursing number seven proof.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Isn't you had? No, that's wrong, that's not increased frontline staff.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
We re taught about four thy nine hundred nurses and
we are a significant improvement on that we.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Are in the hiring doctors and nurses. There's a recruitment
freeze on. Now. You can't lie and say that you're
doing more. You've frozen hiring medical staff to try and
meet your deficit budgets to try and line things in
and do what you say. But the truth is and
key we know it when they go to the GP,
when they go to the hospital. You've put a freeze
(22:48):
on hiring medical staff in order to try and meet
your targets.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
No, we are shigh frontline, frontline staff members in terms
of the GP shortages. That is a that is a
complex challenge. Obviously, we only have the capacity to train
so many gps here in New Zealand, which is why
we're looking at it to medical school with a very
strong focus on getting those Thank you out to provincial
New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Thank you both so much for taking your time. I
know you both have to go and we're gone over time.
Ginny Anderson and Mike Butterrek, thank you for joining us
on the show this morning.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
B Shine, can you make your decision joining us for
politics Thursday. This week is Labor Police spokesperson Ginny Anderson.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Morning, Jenny, Good morning, Mack. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Couldn't be better? How are you good?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I'm not too bad at all? Yeah, really good, nice
sunny day.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
It wasn't sunny when I came to work this morning.
It was peeing down a National's wire rapper m P.
Mike Butterick. What's the weather like in the wire rapper?
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Mike, Yeah, Good morning, morning Jenny. You know, we've just
had a few study shares come through a sort of
a a bit of a free should suddenly this morning.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
That's it. Yeah, you don't want to be in the
wire rapper during a suddenly. The anytime you want to
be in the wire EpoR when the weather is perfect.
Let's start with the ocr down fifty basis points and
an announcement from the Reserve Bank yesterday. Great news for
mortgage holders, good news for the economy, good news, Jinny.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, it is good news and iver Look, I know
how many families out there doing it tough with those
mortgage payments that have been so tough over the past
couple of years, but unemployment still pretty high. Yeah, there's
a lot of New Zealanders who have lost their jobs recently,
and we just we need higher wages and more jobs
as well as inflation coming down. And the other point
(01:42):
I'd make is that eighty five thousand New Zealanders have
left our country to go elsewhere, so that's something we
need to really think about to make sure we keep
our economy growing.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Totally agree, Mike. Can the new government take credit for
this or is it just the economy beginning to settle down.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Yeah. Look, I think certainly one of the contributors to
the inflation that we had been experiencing it was the
amount of money that had been tipped in by the government,
so certainly did play a part. But I think yesterday
you had a collective side around the country. Look, it's
good news, but you know, the cost of living crisis
hasn't gone away and won't go away just because the
(02:21):
ocr has dropped. You know, we've still got to keep
our focus on being responsible. But I think look in
terms of the o CR, that will help give people
a little bit of a confidence and confidence as I've
mentioned before on your show, it's a great thing because
it will you know, people may just decide to do
a few things and make a few decisions that they
(02:42):
probably weren't going to prior to that. So look at
it's good news and it and I don't think that
it's finished either yet.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Jenny talking about not being finished yet, are you hoping
for another fifty basis points in this year later on
when it comes out?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
It seems that that's kind of on cards. But I mean,
when you're seeing so many drops put in over a
short period of time, that's reflective of the poor state
to our economy. So to see those keep coming shows
that it is so stagnant. And a big part of
that was all of the construction workers that have leaft
New Zealand over fifty thousand gone. So with all those
(03:19):
big infrastructure projects frozen, it's going to be a long
time to heat those back up and get workers back
on deck. So that's a big challenge looking.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Forward, Mike, we are losing some real quality New Zealanders
at the moment.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Why look, you know, obviously for a number of reasons,
isn't it. But there's no doubt we've been in a recession.
But I think, you know, there will be a number
of factors that are starting to I guess up to
turning that around a little bit.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
But Mike, Mike, can I just interrupt there? Surely if
those young people or older people, doesn't I mean, I'm
not age restricting them that are leaving. You don't have
the confidence in your government, otherwise they'd be staying and
fighting it through with you.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I look, that's you know, we've got a number of
number of things in play which will help grow, help
deliver it growth to the economy, and you know, the
challenges to try and get our economy going, get growth,
get opportunities. And there were a lot of those people
back and you know, I think we're on the right
track for doing that. So we're certainly getting in a
different direction. Regarding the fifty another fifty basis points, I
(04:23):
wouldn't like to speculate. It would be great if we
did get another cup before Christmas? Would wouldn't that be
a good Christmas present for everybody?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Definitely? What Jenny, why are so many quality new Zealanders leaving.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Well, I've got an interesting story. I've got a mate
who's labor and funnily enough, he's the property developer and
he saw this announcement by Chris Bishop that they're going
to start underwriting again, and he's like, I've looked at it,
I've checked it out. It looks it looks like it
could stack up. Why are they doing this? And I
thought about it. And so they came in and they
stopped all the underwriting through come or Order and through
(04:57):
key we Build. And if you look at that, after that,
all the construction projects freed up and they all start
going to Ossie to other jobs. And so the government
has realized that tanked the economy a bit, particularly on
construction and those big projects. And so this underwrite is
a good demonstration that they're trying to reverse what they've
(05:17):
done to restart some of those big construction projects that
are no longer going.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Is that right, Mike, No, Look.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
I think some of the stuff that have been paused
it we had to have a reset. We had to
make sure that we lifted up the bond and had
a look and make sure we were delivering efficient, cost
effective projects. And that's the responsible thing to do. But
you know, I think in terms of some of we
may chat about the fast Track, I've had a bit
of a tot up. There's about potentially not quite eight thousand,
(05:47):
two hundred to put over eight and a half thousand houses,
you know, potentially planned in the fast Track. So I
mean that's pretty significant for the Willington region. So that's
all great news, and that will help attract those people back.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Right, let's move on things a sarma around looking at
great right now, our navy mana Manui ran aground, caught
fire and sunk on Sunday. And while most of the
fuel seems to be contained, some is leaked, and they're
big fears for the environment. Mike, whatever it costs, I
assume you're going to clean this up.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Yeah, And so look, Nick, I guess the first thing
I would do is a big shout out to the
men and woman of our Defense force that were on
that ship. You know, my heart goes out to them.
I'm sure they're absolutely devastated by what occurred. And I
think Judith Collins probably summed it up beast when she
said it could have been very bad and now it's
just bad, and that was in relation to that. They
(06:43):
all got off safely, So that's first and foremost, and
obviously now the focus has got to go on trying
to mitigate any environmental impacts.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Ginny, if you zoom out and look at the Defense
Force as a whole, go up and hop in the
helicopter and look down on it, things don't look that good.
Terrible housing, attrition, ancient planes for the Prime Minister and
Defense Force to use. And now we can't even take
this Fence Force seriously enough. Do they need more funding?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Well they do, and they were one of the many
all the government agencies that had to fire. And six
point five percent cuts any budget, so that you know,
part of the inquiry I hope on the Monu Anui
will establish whether it was funding cuts, so you know
that they got a couple of billion dollars less to
run that whole outfit when they've already got failing infrastructure.
(07:35):
And the sad thing about Monima Nui is that was
just pretty new. That was twenty nineteen. That's a state
of the art piece of equipment.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well it was it. You you brought it to be
fed to be fed, Jenny. You bought it secondhand and
converted it.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
It wasn't in our fleet in terms of what we
have that had the ability to actually lift up, had
a big crane to lift up and rescue other boats.
So now our rescue boat is at the bottom of
the sea. So that makes it really hard for other
assistance to happen in other navy vessels.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Mich Will that ship be replaced in manro Minue.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
There's something I obviously can't speculate on. Nick knows.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
But they're talking. What are they talking? What are they saying?
I mean that they're talking about.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
I mean there is an updated Defense Capability Plan, or
a DCP they call it. That's due that's outlining major
investments I think up to about twenty and forty and
I think that's going to be considered by cabinet later
this year. So as to what shape or form that
looks like, we'll just have to wait and see. But
(08:39):
I do notice you mentioned attrition. It was very high,
but that has reduced quite a lot. It's come down
from about fifteen percent to just a bit over eight
half percent at the end of all this this year,
so there's a pretty impressive improvement in that.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Will there be some more money given to the military.
I mean, we've got a bit of a problem. The
Defense Force has got a bit of an issue, hasn't it.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Yeah, there certainly has been some stresses, and I don't
think anyone would dispute that. But you know, there was
new funding of five hundred and seventy odd million in
the budget for them. So look again, we're just got
to wait and see what this Defense Capability Plan outlines
in terms of what the game plan is out until
twenty forty.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Well, we know what it's going to be, don't we, Jenny.
They're not going to spend any money. They're trying to
pull back everything. So they're going to try and give
these guys a part time work. The seventy five that
of guys and women that have been pulled off Mari Minue.
They're going to be just sitting around doing some part
time work, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Well, you can't have it both ways. Mike's saying that,
you know that the whole reason of inflation is government spending,
but we know that it's global factors like oil prices
that drive inflation. What they're doing is cutting when labored.
We're in over the last six years four point seven
billion capital was invested over that time, and it's double
(10:00):
what National did in the previous nine years. So yep
they'll cut and yes we'll see their infrastructure get even worse.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Let's talk about a story that came out yesterday. It's
about twenty four million dollars the government gave to Mike
King's counsel and provided gun Boot Friday. The Order to
General has come out and says the contract was unusual
and inconsistent and there was no competitive or fair process
for the contract and it didn't allow for usual rules. Mike,
(10:28):
this was money for the boys, wasn't it. It was
too early in the piece. It was just as the
coalition was formed, and let's just dish out a bit
of cash before we had to put our heads in.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
No, no, it was really wasn't the chop for the
boys neck lock. The first timing I would make is
and I actually know a few young people that have
accessed the I Am Hope Foundation or the gun Boot
Friday and look, they do amazing work. They've got to
proven trek record or delivery.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I don't think there's any question. But hold on, hold on,
hold on, Mike, just hold on, No, no, no, I
want you I want you to hold on a second.
There's no doubt that what Mike King and I that
does is great and fantastic. We're not having a crack
at that. We're having a crack at a process when
you were telling everyone to pull their heads in and
don't spend money. This money came out, bang bang bang
and was gone.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Look, it was important that we did invest in mental health,
and I don't know that anyone would dispute the need
for that, Nick, but you know the Minister throughout that
whole process, he saw and received assurance from the officials
that you know that the option chosen by the Ministry
of Health was compliant with procurement rules and that was
(11:35):
GUNB Friday was a proven, well known initiative.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
But why didn't they get opposition when they look at
someone else? The Order to General has come out and
says the contract was unusual and inconsistent. You can't argue
with that.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
So look, the decision to fund the fund the GUNB
Friday that was a decision made by government. Yes, how
that commitment was implemented though, was a decision made by
the Ministry of Health which they made.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Jinny, is this right?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I'm sorry No, it wasn't made by the Ministry of Health.
It was a director by the government because it was
part of their coalition agree and what their Auditor General
has quite clearly said as a commitment and a coalition
agreement does not mean that you can bypass a proper
procurement process. And the whole purpose of transparent democracy is
(12:20):
that everyone should have a go at saying you know,
whether their service can provide the best outcome for people,
and that process did not happen. They picked a winner.
You nothing against Mike King, I've met him, I've heard
him speak. He's a great guy. But Vibe in the
Hut Valley Save Lives. They work with young people on
a daily basis to help people cope with depression, anxiety
(12:42):
and a bunch of other stuff going on in their lives.
Why weren't they given the opportunity to bid for that
contract and why didn't they give more opportunities for mental
health service providers to access funding. It's just not fair
and it looks like mates and mates scratching each other's
back kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
One hundred percent. And there's another great facility in Wellington
and the Saint James Building. They're doing an amazing thing
as well, got no funding, got cut. This this might
I'm sorry, but this does not look good.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
No, yes, yes, I said Nick. I mean the minister
he did see and a sort of assurance from the officials,
but he.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Didn't go into the marketplace. He didn't go out into
the marketplace. He knew you know, they were, they were
asking questions themselves, the officials.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Yeah, so I mean, look, he was. He did seek
assurance and he was given assurance that it was compliant
with those procurement rules and not. I haven't seen the
details of the Auditor generals myself report myself, so but
you know, I reiterate the Minister did seek assurance and
was given it.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Well, those comments or those statement by the Auditor generals
in the paper and so on all media. So I'm
a little bit surprised you came on the show not
not having read that, knowing that that was a topic
that we were going to talk about.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
I was thinking yesterday, last night and again this morning.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So thanks for taking the show as high priority. The
bunch of projects under the fast Track Law has been announced,
and for Willington there's more than eight thousand new homes,
a small seawall at the airport and a mega tunnel
of the government signs offered Ginny off. All these projects
get off the ground, that's blooming good news for Willing
and surely this fast track legislation is a good idea.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
It's probably good news for National considering twelve of them
donated to the National Party, so you know these are
the more stuff for you're rolling on from the last story.
Twelve of those put on the fast track list gave
significant donations to either National Act or New Zealand. First,
over five hundred thousand dollars was given to bypass environmental consents,
(14:49):
to bypass treaty provisions and to simply steam train on through.
Some of those projects previously were declined because they degraded
our environment in polluted rivers. But through this process of
giving donation and getting a quick tick off, they're back
on the charts.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Is this starting to come through a little bit, Mike,
isn't it? Jobs for the boys and looking after your
own are not?
Speaker 4 (15:12):
There's completely out you Nick, completely like I dispute all
of those comments there, but look it is great. We
have a house in christ and look there is procedures
for managing conflicts of interest which have been stuck to.
But in terms of Lord Wellington, it's great news. I
(15:34):
think there's about two hundred eight thousand and six seven
hundred houses. I mean that's great a tunnel or end
or a longer tunnel, because there's no doubt that we've
got challenges and head challenges in this country for actually
doing anything and getting on with it. And at the
start of the show we talked about these people heading
overseas well. If we want to retain them or lure
(15:55):
them back, we need to get on and do stuff
and have a pipeline of work in the Fast Track Bill.
I think it's really exciting in terms of what it
could deliver for the country that we desperately desperately need it.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Can I just quickly ask you if you both liked
the idea of the long tunnel from the Terrace to
Colberty Jinny.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yes, it depends on the cost and being able to
do it well, but yes, I think we really need
to look at issues around Wellington and having to be
the capital city and to have our traffic reduced into
one lane when getting to the airport is always going
to be a real problem for us.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Mike, what do you think?
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Yeah, yeah, you're right, Nick, And I think obviously Willington
has the geographic challenges. I think I'm not on in
plum minds ester, which will be the best one. But
I think the old editors do it once and do
it properly, do your research, do it well, cost it well,
deliver it on budget, and do it under a fast
tracked bill so we can actually crack on and get
it done. I mean, I think it's all good stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Okay, Health New Zealand released hunds.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yes, Jenny, I'd say, well last thing, thanks.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Sorry.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Just out of those twelve who did donate, eight to
National one of them a climal order development to stop that,
and Bishop actually wrote a support leader to that private developer.
So now the clime of order under the funding has
been cut and the private developer is now receiving the
(17:26):
fast track. So I mean that's just a really clear
example of where you head, state housing being built, that
being cut, a private developer who's donating to the National
Party now receiving consent and assistance, and to me, that
just smells really bad.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Mike, do you want to reply to that?
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Look, I think there's completely unfear and look, this is
about delivering housing, which we're talking about housing is sufficiently
and aspectively as we can, and a private enterprise can
do it cheaper and well deliver on all those Logically
we should go with us because at the end of
the day, it's the experts money.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Potentially a bit cheaper, okay, profiting from it.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Okay, let's go move on to health. New Zealand released
hundreds of pages of financial reports this week and it's
not good reading. The deficit and the health system is
now projected to be one point eight billion by the
end of the financial year, a lot bigger than the
one point four billion first expected. Mike. The government is
trying to cut costs, but promised frontline services won't be effected.
Surely this if this continues to blow out, frontline service
(18:27):
will take a hat.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Look, our focus is very much on making sure policies
aren't making sure we deliver on those front night services.
But it is serious, Nick, one point eight billion dollars,
that's a pretty serious deficit and it just shows, you know,
and it appeared very very quickly as well, which just
shows how the health end board. You know, we're completely
(18:51):
almost caught by surprise and unaware of that the extent
until it was too late. Right, you know, the situation
yet has continued to deteriorate. We've put less delivery in there,
and you know that's a very serious thing to have done,
is to put a commissioner in there. So we are
taking it very very seriously, Jenny.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
What's causing this? Is the house system spending too much money?
Or is it just that it's underfunded and they need
the government needs to put more money in.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Wouldn't we get the facts straight here? Tafatu orders box
reveal just how much the government has been gaslighting New
Zealanders on this one. That the opening those books shows
it more than five hundred million of Kafatu orders deficit
was caused by Cabinet deciding not to transfer the funds
put aside for pay equity for nurses, for midwives and
(19:40):
for allied health staff. So it's very hard to see
how the miners can say there's no recruitment freese of
frontline staff when it's very clear from these documents as
early as April this year there's been a free which
means we've got no health staff. So they didn't want
to pay them more and they've stopped hiring them. And
that's a big part of the problem that kews are
(20:01):
saying when they try to get health service is now.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Mike, we are hearing stories of nurses lining up for
hours for interviews and giving their cvs and told that
there's no jobs. I mean, it is a bad situation,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
You know, there's a significant deficit, but you know, I
would say, you know, there was a record uplift in
this year's budget. It was around about thirty billion a
year and that was actually more than what the previous
labor government ever promised to do. So there is a
significant investment into our health system. But obviously there are
(20:37):
some challenges. The restructure done has obviously not been that
effective as yet. There's been a whole lot of backroom
additional jobs editing. So we are very much focused on
delivering frontline services in part with targets, having targets, because targets,
(20:57):
they are very a very responsible thing to do. They
give you something to aim at. But you know, there
has been some good stuff this week. You've been a
relatively good health week. You know, there's a million dollar
pilot program announced partnering with Plunket to get kids vaccinated.
And I do note they're talking about the potential of
the measles outbreak, so that's really important and it's one
(21:20):
of our key targets is to increase vaccinations. Have been
a funding boost for parmestan ed of six million dollars, so.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
You know we are getting it is it is frontline.
Like you can't say it's back office when there's a
shortage of three thousand nurses and you've got a recruitment
freeze on, you know, and hospital people are having to
be transported into Wellington because there's not enough staff there.
They're carrying shortages of boarding fifteen people in one department
(21:50):
and we know that they've been told they're not allowed
to hire or go to market. So you can't say
that your government has just cut back office and made
frontline better because it's the absolute off opposite. You've cut everything,
including frontline.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
On that you know, there has been a significant increase
in frontline staff. You know, nursing number seven proof.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Isn't you had? No, that's wrong, that's not increased frontline staff.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
We re taught about four thy nine hundred nurses and
we are a significant improvement on that we.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Are in the hiring doctors and nurses. There's a recruitment
freeze on. Now. You can't lie and say that you're
doing more. You've frozen hiring medical staff to try and
meet your deficit budgets to try and line things in
and do what you say. But the truth is and
key we know it when they go to the GP,
when they go to the hospital. You've put a freeze
(22:48):
on hiring medical staff in order to try and meet
your targets.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
No, we are shigh frontline, frontline staff members in terms
of the GP shortages. That is a that is a
complex challenge. Obviously, we only have the capacity to train
so many gps here in New Zealand, which is why
we're looking at it to medical school with a very
strong focus on getting those Thank you out to provincial
New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Thank you both so much for taking your time. I
know you both have to go and we're gone over time.
Ginny Anderson and Mike Butterrek, thank you for joining us
on the show this morning.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
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