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March 16, 2024 179 mins

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
A media Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted
to let you know this is a compilation episode. So
every episode of the week that just happened is here
in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for
you to listen to in a long stretch if you want.
If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,
there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

you can make your own decisions.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to it could happen here, the podcast that tells
you what's going to happen before it's happening. I'm Garrison Davis.
Joined with me is Mia Wong Glue. So today we're
going to be talking about predictive programming, something that I
assume some conspiracy theorist has accused of the show of doing,
specifically Robert, but we're not going to talk about us
too much. Instead, we're going to talk about the origin

of this conspiracy theory and some famous use cases throughout
history of how you might have been affected by predictive programming. Listener,
So let's start by defining our terms here. Predictive programming
is a conspiracy theory that future events are seeded within
fictional media like film, TV, video games, and books to

subliminally influence the public perception of real world events. But
this isn't simply about movies like just predicting the future.
It's an intentional method of large scale social conditioning used
by a conspiracy of deep state government agents and the
entertainment industry. This term was coined by a conspiracy theorist
named Alan Watt. Different from the like pop Zen writer

Alan Watts. Different guy, just a one letter difference. I'm
sure they share some amount of audience crossover, but they
are different people. He kind of coined this concept around
the early two thousands. From what I can tell, he's
a Scottish Canadian conspiracy theorist. Oddly enough, he's kind of
one of the least problematic conspiracy theorists that I've run into.

Like he's he's openly pushed back on on like anti
semitism from David Ike and Alex Jones, Like he just
seems to kind of be a silly guy. He died
a few years ago. From what I can tell, at
least on like a cursory search, He's like not the
most problematic, I mean, obviously still a conspiracy theorist, but
like kind of like the token good conspiracy theorist. I

don't know, but he defined predictive programming as the power
of suggestion using the media of fiction to create a
desired outcome. A more expansive definition that he gave is quote,
predictive programming is a subtle form of psychological conditioning provided
by the media to acquaint the public with planned societal
changes to implemented by the elites. If and when these

changes are put through, the public will already be familiarized
with them and will accept them as natural progressions, thus
lessening any possible public resistance and commotion. Predictive programming, therefore,
may be considered a veiled form of preemptive mass manipulation
or mind control courtesy of our puppet masters. So that's
Alan Watt, that is, that is his definition. Like I said,

he kind of came up with this idea in the
early two thousands and it spread like wildfire throughout his
competitors and his contemporaries in the conspiratorial milieu.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, it's really recent. I thought I thought it was
older than that. Yeah, No, it is a new one.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
It is.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
It is a relatively new conspiracy theory, like it doesn't.
It doesn't go all the way back to like, well,
some of like the rough ideas were kind of used
by stuff, you know, going all the way back to
the John Birch Society, But the actual term predictive programming
and the modern understanding of that term are much more recent.
An Ohio State University article on the topic said, quote,

predictive programming, at its core is a tactic to reduce
resistance by introducing concepts that seem far fetched and continuously
reintroducing them to make these concepts appear more likely or
at the very least acceptable. So that's more of like
an outside in definition from from researchers. So let's let's
go back to Alan Watch a little bit, because he's

kind of been largely forgotten in the conspiratorial milieu, replaced
by a whole bunch of more like bombastic and and
troubling figures like Jones and Ike and many many smaller,
smaller conspiracy theorists. But I listened to what I believe
to be the first kind of broadcast where where he
coined this idea. As opposed to Alex Jones, Alan Watt

is like a very like calm speaker, like he's he's
actually kind of just like pleasant to listen to because
he's just so like like calm, methodical. He's not like bombastic.
He just sounds like a regular, like chill guy. His
his website is amazing. It looks like a nineteen ninety
five website that has never been updated. It is, it

is fantastic. I love that the website has stayed up
after his death because it is just a joy to
look at. But Alan Watt describes predictive programming as a
quote unk quote ancient science. He thought that quote families
of actors go back thousands of years. They're a specialized
section of society that inter marries within their own ranks unquote.

So like he thinks all actors come from like this
one large like intergenerational family that have been that have
been like in the profession of acting, which like is
kind of true for like the Coppolas, but like, eh,
you know, it's like, yes, there is a massive like
inepotism problem, but like no, yeah, actors aren't like a
single family that goes back like millennia. But that is

that that is one of his beliefs he calls he
calls producers magicians quote. They know what messages must be
imprinted into the minds of the audience. They know the techniques,
a perfect science unquote. He also talks about how Shakespeare
was involved in predictive programming. Quote Shakespeare was the magician

that brought the English language into being quote. So that
like Shakespeare is like the person who developed like the
modern the modern English language. Like obviously English like pre
dates Shakespeare, but like he thinks that through Shakespeare's writing
he was able to like popularize the modern form of English,
which just isn't true, but it's a it's a it's

a funny thing to believe. And he thinks all these
people are like literal magicians, like like wizards, like you know,
like like wands, pointy hats, Like they're all like doing
actual like magic.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
This seems like such a roundabout way of doing this,
Like you can just absolutely magic. So so true, so
true via.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
So Alan Watt talks about that in the late sixties
there was a big, weeks long international meeting to decide
that Hollywood would be the place to create the culture
of the future. He then discusses how like Hollywood controls
people through like war movies, and how like the DoD
helps Hollywood with equipment for war movies, but they have

to approve the messaging, which like that has like a
little grain of truth in there. Like yes, to use
military equipment, you do need to get like approval from
people in the government. And yeah, there is a form
of Hollywood that is like just war propaganda. Like that,
there's a kernel of truth here, but not exactly in
the way Alan Watt talks about it. Do you know
what else has a kernel of truth all of these ads?

There's one single kernel in all of these ads that
is revealing a divine truth of existence. So watch out
and listen for this one kernel of truth. Okay, we

are back to talk about Alan Watt and his predictive
programming idea which has spread through the conspiratorial milieu like wildfire.
So probably the funniest thing he gets to on this
whole Hollywood as magician's rant is quote, if you look
at the word Hollywood, it means holy wood, which of

course is the staff of the Magi, the grand magas
of the occult. He waives a wand and everything is changed.
He casts a spell. So from so he thinks that
Hollywood literally refers to like a magic wand like a
holy a holy wood. He then he then also talks

about Hollywood as like as like a grove, like like Hollywood,
like the place is is is a grove quote similar
to Jewish holy groves and folklore Moses's staff was placed
in a grove and that was a special place for
higher magi to meet unquote. And I don't think he
means this anti semitically. It just kind of sounds anti Semitic,

but he talks about and anyway, you can't even blame
the us of this on those guys Canadian Scottish Canadian. Yeah, yeah,
literally me, literally me. I'll read one more Alan Watt
quote here, which is just a banger. Hollywood is the
magician's wand holy Holly, which has been used to cast

a spell on the unsuspecting public. Things or ideas that
would otherwise be seen as bizarre, vulgar, undesirable, or impossible
are inserted into films in the realm of fantasy. When
the viewer watches these films, his or her mind is
left open to suggestion and the conditioning process begins. These
same movies, which are designed to program the average person,

can give the discerning viewer a better understanding of the
workings and the plan of the world agenda unquote. So
unlike a lot of modern conspiracy theorists who like refuse
to watch movies because of predicting programming, Alan Watt thinks
it's actually useful to watch movies because you can get
like a future like glimpse of what is going to
happen in the world, which is like a neat little

difference compared to some of his modern contemporaries.

Speaker 5 (10:07):
Yeah, you can.

Speaker 6 (10:08):
You can watch Batman realize and occupy wall streets happening, yes,
one year ago.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
It's predictive programming in the past, in the past, Yeah, yeah, preemptive.
So let's talk about some examples of predictive programming. Now,
one thing that people often point to when discussing this
is the television show The Simpsons.

Speaker 4 (10:31):

Speaker 2 (10:32):
A writer and producer of The Simpsons from back in
the nineties, Bill Oakley gave a statement to Reuters a
few years ago about the concept of The Simpsons being able.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
To predict real world events. Quote. I would say, in general,
when people.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Say the Simpsons has predicted something, it's that we were
really just satirizing real life events. From years before, and
because history keeps repeating itself, it just seems like we're
predicting things unquote, which I think is actually a really
great observation. The show actually hasn't made very many predictions.
It is often just satirizing actual events from around the
time of the show's production, and lots of those events

we've just now forgotten in the present, and similar events
keep happening in the present, like viruses or Donald Trump
running for president just like he did in the two thousands,
So it's easy to kind of see these things as
predictions when in fact we've just forgotten the events that
they were originally satirizing. Now, many of the kind of
viral quote unquote predictions you see online associated with The

Simpsons actually just have a vastly different context within the show,
and in many cases are actually just altered images fan art,
photoshops or memes with mislabeled timestamps, or genuine images satirizing
current events, making it appear as if the Simpsons version
happened beforehand, when really it was like something satirizing an

event a month ago, made to look like it was
actually produced in like two thousand and seven or something, Right,
so it's just a whole bunch of manipulated media. One
instance of something that appears to bessive prediction but is
actually just showing how the creators of the show pay
attention to politics is the purple suit that President Lisa wears,
bearing similarity to Kamala Harris's get up on an inauguration day,

but purple was also worn by Michelle Obama and Hillary
Clinton during previous inauguration days. It's the color of the
saffagette movement, and it tends to symbolize unity between red
and blue states. It's it's a very common thing that
women wear at inauguration day, so like it's just a
good guess. So there's a lot of stuff like that. Now,

probably the most famous example of the Simpsons predictive power
is probably the nine to eleven poster from the New
York episode. Now, there is a wealth of eerie nine
to eleven imagery from years before the attack, either associated
with the date itself, destruction of the Twin Towers, or,
in the case of the Simpsons, both Now, as for
the others, nine to one one is just a common

number in the US. So you see a pop up
in a lot of Stuff, and the Twin Towers, as
well as the Statue of Liberty, the Empire State, and
the Chrysler Building are all often used in like host
apocalyptic or like societal collapse destructive artwork. Of course, there
was the bombing at the World Trade Center like a
decade prior, and it's really easy now just to focus

on instances of art depicting the Twin Towers.

Speaker 4 (13:15):

Speaker 2 (13:15):
We have Michael Keaton's The Squeeze from nineteen eighty seven,
Cookie Monster eating the Twin Towers in nineteen seventy six,
the Towers disintegrating in the nineteen ninety three Mario movie,
The Infamous Illuminati card game, the Coup's Party music album cover,
and my personal favorite instance the pilot episode of the
X Files A spin off show, The Lone Gunmen, in

which members of the US government Deep State remotely hijack
a commercial airliner to crash it into the World Trade
Center to blame it on terrorists and start a new
war in the Middle East. This episode aired six months
before nine to eleven.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
It is the funniest thing. It's wild.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
It's like specifically being like an X Files a spinoff,
It's it's just gold hilarious stuff and obviously for another
predictive programming type thing. In the wake of COVID nineteen,
many have pointed out that movies like Contagion or even
zombie media are instances of predictive programming to get the
public to accept a massive global pandemic, when in most

cases it's actually just like scientists being like, hey, a
pandemic could probably be a big problem, and then screenwriters
being like, oh, let's write a movie about a pandemic, right,
very very easy. Do you know what else contains very
important subliminal messaging? Maya cars two, Well, the products and
services that support this podcast. Listen to these to get
a glimpse into the future. All right, we are back

and we are joined by Robert Evans to give his
thoughts on the predictive power of the Simpsons.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Hello Robert, Hey, you know Garrison. Once upon a time,
I watched a Simpsons episode where homewer Is sides not
to go to church instead to stay asleep on Sunday
all day, and that really kind of predicted me sleeping
in this morning after getting in on a late night
flight last night and missing the start of this recording.
So the power of predictive programming simply cannot be denied.

Because there's a scene in that where Homer closes his
eyes and curls his toes and pulls his covers up
over himself when he's avoiding church. That really predicted me
at about eleven am this morning.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
Well that's great. Do you know who else is good
at predictive programming? Batman?

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Okay, so we've already talked a little bit about some
of the predictive programming conspiracies based on The Dark Knight
Rises in the first segment of our Occupy Gotham City episode.
You know how the Aurora, Colorado shooter was a modern
MK Ultra victim program to distract from the software leaks
that'll expose the corrupt elites because his father worked on

predictive algorithms for the financial sector, just like the plot
of The Dark Knight Rises. It's not the plot of
The Darkness, not at all. But let's not forget that
the movie also conditioned us to accept a major attack
on a big sporting event, something which has also not
really happened. So I'll actually be seeing Clyde Lewis again
next week, so I will I will try to get

his thoughts on his Dark Knight Rises failed predictions. We'll see,
we'll see how We'll see how that goes for me.
But those are not the only conspiracy theories around this movie.
For the next one, we will turn to the King
of the Lizard People, David Ike.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Ah, there we go.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
He claims that when the GCPD are trying to track
down the location of Bain's nuclear reactor, there's a shot
of a map on which there's a location marked as
Sandy Hook. And you'll never guess what happened after The
Dark Knight came out.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
God, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (16:55):
So then.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
So yeah, Now I've looked into this a decent bit,
because yes, there is there is a location on the
map of Gotham City marked Sandy Hook. Now this is
probably named after Sandy Hook, New Jersey, just south of
New York City, as on the Batman map, it is
an island that is just south of Gotham City. In

the comics, it's called Tri Corner Island. For the specific
map of Gotham they used is from like the nineteen nineties,
and it's called Tri Corner Island. I think they renamed
it to Sandy Hook in the Dark Knight rises, So
a similar map in the movie was used for marketing
materials that labeled Sandy Hook as a neighborhood in Gotham,
and this map also contained a neighborhood called the Narrows,

a common Gotham borough in Batman lore. The Sandy Hook
shooting this led schools in Narrows, Virginia to delay their
reternive students for winter break to install additional security precautions.
And this was all based on a conspiracy article titled
is Narrows the site of the next school massacred?

Speaker 8 (18:03):

Speaker 3 (18:03):
Of course it wasn't.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
But clear, folks, there are Sandy Hooks towns named Sandy
Hooks in Connecticut, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, and Missouri, Virginia, Wisconsin.
Like it's it's there's a lot of them. We've made
a lot of them. There's a lot of places that
are sandy and look like a hook.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
And then the secondary problem with this is that we
have school shootings in so many places that if you
just have a map in any movie, there's like a
one in twelve chance that there's going to be a
shooting there. Now, so great, great society we've built.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
I do kind of wonder, is this something that we've
like inoculated ourselves against by having so many school shootings,
like because you could never Sandy Hook got so much
attention because like we didn't have as many shootings back then,
and it was so terrible, and like maybe now we
move on to because it's like you're talking about elements
of this, but like people obsessed are still obsessed over

the Sandy Hook shooting today in a way that like
I don't think most mass shooting victims have to deal with,
like it becoming the center of this national mania campaign.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, And many pointed out that this this Batman conspiracy
theory is kind of incongruent with other Sandy Hook conspiracy theories,
being like it's supposed to be a big shocking incident
to get people to start to start like wanting gun
control versus why would they try to warn us about it,
about it happening if it was, if the point of

it is to be shocking, like it doesn't quite make
sense as most conspiracy theories do. But David Ike said,
quote the dark Knight rises is classic Saturn symbolism, and
Satanists worship Saturn, So there you go. Now, Curiously, do
you know who else lives in Sandy Hook? Suzanne Collins,

the author of The Hunger Games, which leads us to
our next topic, the Hunger Games. I found this amazing
blog called Through Ancient Eyes by this British guy named Neil,
who's obsessed with the occult and is like a David
Ike fanboy.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
This this blog is glorious.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
So I will I'll start by bye by reading the
opening opening paragraph from this blog quote. Don't think for
a minute that the script for the Hunger Games books
is purely fiction. Here we have predictive programming at its finest.
What I saw was the second part of a three
part narrative that clearly plans ideas of acceptance, sacrifice, and

revolution in the minds of youth. The books are awash
with symbols and archetypes that seem to be classic programming devices,
and more alarmingly, the books seem to project a very
viable future for not only America but for the world.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
I mean, look, he's not entirely wrong. Because of all
of the pieces of revolutionary literature and nonfiction of that
have come out during our lifetimes, the Hunger Games has
inspired a lot more revolutions.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
That's why this one is so fun.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
It's because, no, like twenty twenty was like a not
insignificant part of twenty twenty was due to a whole
bunch of kids growing up with The Hunger Games.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
No, no, I know people who are still fighting in
the jungle. So in part because of.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
That book, Yes, exactly, So we will get into that
in a bit.

Speaker 9 (21:21):

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Neil believes that the country of PanAm is quote clearly
a reference to both Arcadia and the Greek god Pan unquote.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
It's an author who was up late at night looking
for country names and remember it in an old airline,
like that's what was going on.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
The region of Arcadia was home to pan and characterized
by a vast wilderness with its lavish parties for the
god of the wild and his nymphs.

Speaker 3 (21:46):

Speaker 2 (21:46):
The Hunger Game's capital is an urban forest of the gods.
In its classic symbolic reversal of the true meaning, it
becomes a city dedicated to all that would be the
opposite of true freedom unquote. Now Neil loves symbolic reversal.
How you will see something depicted that is like, you know,
like being against tutalitarian governments. This is actually symbolic reversal

where it's actually pro authoritarian governments, because this is this
is how he talks about the entire the entirety of
of the movie and how it's actually trying to like
seed acceptance for a one world order, a military police estate.
Similar to David Ike, Neil also notes the Saturnian symbolism,
with the goat imagery of the astral signed Capricorn linking

to pan as well as the composite representation of the
devil image Baphomet. Now I am I am not a
planetary magic guy in general, but Saturn is often like
linked to like the harvest, to destruction, chaos, it's, it's,
it's a whole thing. But Neil says, quote both Capricorn
and Aquarius are ruled by Saturn and it's hidden vibrationality

effect on the powers that be banking, law, education. Therefore,
PanAm is the ultimate Saturn city of the future. PanAm
is very much the typical totalitarian future Nazia Lake City.
It is also where that links to pandemonium in the
form of a pandemic is the hunger games, preparing the
youth of today for some kind of tyrannical future born

out of the events of the next decade that will
lead to global pandemonium, which is unfortunately a pretty good
prediction coming from like, coming from like the early twenty tens. Yeah,
they kind of were talking about a pandemic that leads
to global unrest, repelling against a tyrannical future. So pretty

good analysis by Neil there.

Speaker 10 (23:43):

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Neil also notes, you know, curious linkages between the segregated
twelve districts of PanAm, just as our perception of time
is governed by twelve hours and months.

Speaker 10 (23:53):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
He breaks down PanAm even further, claiming that the letter
E and the letter M or like numerology references the
E linking to the Intel and Saturn like explorer logos,
and Neil says, quote, according to some researchers, which is
a great way to start a sentence. According to some researchers,
the letter E is a very important letter number because

it represents the fifth essence or element, the power of transcendence.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
No, we did, as the Jermatria starnage.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely. He goes all out on the
letter M. The letter m's a very important letter in
the mystery schools of antiquity, uh huh, being the numerology
equivalent of thirteen. This of course relates to the thirteen
original districts or the twelve secretors around the one capital.
Oh yeah sure, there are of course twelve jurors and

one judge. The m or the thirteenth letter is the
master with twelve disciples, and esoterically speaking, thirteen is the
experiencer of the twelve signs of the zodiac. There are
twelve months in the Gregorian sun calendar and thirteen months
in the lunar calendar. There were thirteen districts, but now
only twelve remain. There's there were thirteen colonies. The US

is Satanism, So true, so true.

Speaker 3 (25:11):

Speaker 1 (25:11):
There's a lot of talk about how like kids can't
read anymore because how we fucked up like reading education,
you know, around like the early aughts and shit, and
like some the damage that that's done. But this is
showing that, Like you've got a bunch of boomers who
are going through these books, who are reading them very carefully,
who are googling every word in them to see if
there's different things. Yeah, and they catch all of this,

like put all this weird maniaction together. But they don't
just get that, Like, yeah, if you tell kids a
simple story about another young person overthrowing a tyrannical government,
maybe they'll burn down their capital building. Absolutely, it's happened before,
and it'll happen again.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Neil gets obsessed with all these little, tiny, tiny rabbit
holes that are ultimately meaningless and like misses the very glaring,
obvious thing right before his eyes. He says, numbers and
letters are vibrational codes that affect the subconscious. The more
I look at Saturn symbolism, the more I see a
thought form, waveform or a vibrational pattern that permeates the

collective thinking of humanity.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Now you miss the obvious and more like there's all
this obsession with like numerology, and it's like, well no.
A big part of why the Hunger Games caught on
to people and was like so easy to like meme
and spread as part of these revolutionary actions is they
had like a thing, a hand thing that you did.
They had a little salute and like kids could do
it to each other.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
It's the shit. It was not a fan of the salute.
By the way.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Well that's good. I'm sure he's got some fascinating opinions
on that shit.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Oh, he sure does, and we will hear his extremely
fascinating opinions on the three finger Salute as well as
other Hunger Games conspiracies and new upcoming predictive programming conspiracies
based around the Civil War movie in the next episode.
So stay tuned tomorrow for even more exciting news on

how you can predict the future by watching movies. See
you tomorrow, Welcome back to it could happen here. I'm

Garrison Davis. I'm joined by Mia and Robert to discuss
predictive programming. So last episode we talked about the origin
of this conspiracy theory, how this Canadian Scottish conspiracy theorist
named Alan Watt came up with this idea that through
Hollywood movies, TV books, video games, the secret couple of

shadowy governments is trying to subliminally prepare us to accept
planned events as they take place in the future by
putting little hints, shadows, and seeds into our everyday entertainment diet.
One of the oldest examples that conspiracy theorists will point
to you as an example of predictive programming is this

book from the late eighteen hundreds called Futility that talks
about a fictional ship called the titan which was thought
to be completely unsinkable, which eventually crashed on an iceberg
and sank. This obviously it mirrors what happened to the
Titanic in the decades to follow. So yeah, what are
we talking about this sort of stuff? Last episode ended

in our discussion of the Hunger Games, I found this
old conspiracy blog by this British guy named Neil where
he talks about all of his theories surrounding the Hunger Games,
books and movies. So we will return to hear Neil's
thoughts on the predictive programming implanted into the Hunger Games.

Neil also has fascinating opinions on trains. He really doesn't
like that in the Hunger Adams there is a big
like like train system which he links to like the
which he links to the European Union's future train plan
as well as as well as like high speed rail
plans for North America, which he is very against because

do you know who else used trains?

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Was it the Nazis?

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Garrison the Nazis?

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Is it the Nazis?

Speaker 3 (29:20):
It's the Nazis, you know?

Speaker 6 (29:21):
You can tell this is an older conspiracy because they
because they're actually using the Nazis as the people who
use trains and not like the Soviet Union.

Speaker 1 (29:28):

Speaker 2 (29:29):
I think Neil just really likes driving and he thinks
that driving is like the epitome of freedom. So he
talks about how like trains are trying to control which
areas of the country you can go to instead of
the freedom of the open road.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
I got stuck behind a train and traffic on my
way to the airport, very frustrated to make me late
to this call. So I actually I think he's right.
I'm on board now.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
He also rants about this this this nineteen ninety two
UN plan called Agenda twenty one about like a big
environmental management plan with highly condensed humor human settlement zones.
This is something that both John Birch and Glenn Beck
were also like, really.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Alex Jones is huge one. This was the entire conspiracy
ecosystem for about fifteen years. Couldn't shut the fuck up outage.
Some of them still go on about it.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
So Neil's upset because that looks similar to like the
PanAm map of like because PanAm is in like a
post climate collapse. We have these very condensed areas of
settlement and like a vast like unusable land mass in America.
So he has he has this whole thing about that
he he doesn't like that President Snow looks like the

Saturnian figure of Cronos, the father of time, who devours children,
just like just like how President Snow sacrifices children to
maintain like societal control of PanAm in the Hunger Games.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
You know, let him see my bed, my bathroom. That'll
uh yeah, really good. In the center of some I
have a giant copy of the Saturn and Eating his
Son painting that's like right next to my toilet. It's
great painting. Also not necessarily about that. They just found
a painting of a guy eating a guy, and we're like,
it's probably Saturn that this guy was trying to bait.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
That is the research quality that Neil also does. He's like, yeah,
it's probably all these things.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Seems like it's Saturn. Yeah, it seems like it's Saturn. Yeah,
kind of uncomfortable to imagine it's anyone else.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Neil also compares the Hunger Games to China's one child
policy and the population reduction conspiracy.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
Theories of Agenda twenty one.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Just like in the Hunger Games, it's about having children
kill each other, just like the one child policy.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, that's that's how China does their one child policy.
Other children are told to kill children.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Family back on the revolutionary tract quote. I can't confirm
that Susan Collins used the archetype of Artemis for her
character of Catnus, but what can be observed is how
this female role model is a symbol for revolution, a
new order, and more importantly, a new world system. This
is clear the blueprint for a new America. So part

of this blueprint that he talks about is like implanted
microchips and a brutal police state that arrests and kills protesters,
unlike our current police state, which would never arrest or
kill a protester.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, and everyone just carries microchips around.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah yeah, now more more devious than the murder happy police.
Neil finds the bird symbolism to be including Catnus's dress,
which transforms into the mocking jay symbol, which, according to Neil,
looks quote remarkably like a Benu bird of Egypt, as

well as a phoenix, especially when encircled in fire quote.
The phoenix is a classic mystery school symbol that relates
to the unseen forces that transforms the world. Both Catnus
and Pete's costumes set a fire as they enter the
arena before the tournament, with Catnus becoming the bird on fire.
She's the embodiment of the coming transformation, the beginning and
the end. Catnus and Peda are symbols of Artemis and Apollo,

the twins and children of the New World Order of Gods.
Smokeless fire is also a major symbol used by the
Illuminati and is their vehicle to communicate with the Arkans.
He never goes into further detail of a.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yes, smokeless powder is what made war possible, so you
know there's other things. It's not just the Illuminati. We
use it for fireworks too.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Catnus is the woman closed in fire sun in the
Book of Revelation and the EU, the United Nations and
the Security Council replicate the symbolism a phoenix rising out
of the tyranny and war.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
It's all reversed.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Symbolism, of course, because these bodies are set to administer
the world Army, police and the future New World Order unquote.
Though he's there complaining about a United Nations mural that
was made after World War Two about a phoenix of
peace rising from the ashes of war, and houses actually
reversed symbolism because they're actually going to be, you know,

laying out this global, one world government calling at peace.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
You know.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
He also talks more about the Book of Revelation and
how twelve and thirteen combined and the unification of the
new World just like in the Bible, and then finally
to get to that three that three finger salute quote.
It's interesting when you dig a little deeper and find
that Catnus's salute is reminiscent of a certain Nazi youth
salutes found in Eastern Europe in the late nineteen thirties.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
He's and he's.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Also quite concerned by the new adoption of the salute
by the Girl Scouts, despite the three finger salute being
used in Scout organizations for over a century.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, yeah, like the boy Scouts have a lot are sinister,
but not because of the salute, now is the least
of the problem was a brief moment of reprieve for
a lot of those boys getting to do a salute.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
And then he also says, quote it's no surprise that
the mocking jpin also looks similar to a Nazi gunner badge, because,
as I've all shown, the bird is the symbol for
the power of revolution, a new order that goes all
the way back to the Holy Roman Empire.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
And these are the guys will be like, look at
the mocking Jay symbol. It's similar to Then they'll see
like a Scout sniper flag that looks like the SS
logo and go, well, there's clearly nothing related to that.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
And then we will we will close this section by
by continuing on the revolutionary elements. Quote what kind of
revolution does Catnus symbolize? Are the youth of today being
readied for another revolution followed by another dictatorship? How many
more celebrities are we going to see being used as
a mouthpiece for revolution. I am all for peaceful revolution

based on respect and love, but the movies never portray
that kind of revolution. A peaceful revolution is one inspired
by the inner world of imagination and not necessarily the
outer world of this five sensus. The type of revolution
that the elite would want us to unfold here would
be one born of pandemonium. The illuminati, in those who
control of the current global empire in the making, love

to hide their agenda in planes, within commercial so called
fictitious movies, and in the media industry in general. The
Hunger Games is the script for the totalitarian, elite ruled
brutal police state. The agenda's repeatedly being laid out in
front of our very eyes, both in real everyday life
and in things we choose to expose ourselves within the
so called entertainment industry.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
This is one of these things where all of these
conspiracy theories center around the fact that people, for reasons
that are incomprehensible to be believed that the thing the
US government wants you to do is shoot guns at them.
Yes right, No, no, they don't. I guarantee they don't
want you to shoot machine guns out there.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
They would like you to spend money and go to work.
That's the primary thing the US government wants you to do.
Pay your taxes without too much fuss.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
Do you know what else the US government wants you
to do, Robert, I.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Know a number of things the US government wants me
to do, Garrison, but I won't. I will not stop
telling people to take colloidal silver for all of their
health care problems. The only way to really carry out
the revolution starts with putting silver in your body.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
All right, we are back.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
I've actually always wanted to do the topical silver and
get that like blue skin.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
I thought that'd be kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
You have to do a lot of it, cares.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
I'm well aware, like we can achieve this with body paint.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
I do find it very funny that they're so obsessed
with like the Hunger Games as this like this is
the elite showing you how they're going to crack down
on all of us, and then when it actually when
the Hunger Games inspires an actual revolution, it's like the
one that gets no support from any like Spook agency
and the only one. There's no CIA, no FSB, fucking nothing,

like it's just a bunch of teenagers and their books
and three D printers.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
I mean, And like looking back at at that Hunger
Game section, it's always interesting how people like this they're
like in the real world, very like probe police in
a lot of cases, but then also being like they're
trying to instill a police state. Right, it's get to
they get to eat their cake. And have it too,
where they are both pro law enforcement but also anti

this like imagined evil version of law enforcement that's always
like right on the cusp of being introduced.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
There's a through line there, which is that they are
anti whatever it seems like people are telling them. Is like, obviously, okay,
it's it's it's oppositional, definant. It's the same reason why,
like you think that you're on You're living in a
normal earth, so it's got to be a hollow earth, right,
Like it's this if something is popular, if a movie's popular,

it can't just be a movie that people liked. And
if it's like, you know, I saw a Hunger Game,
the first Hunger Games movie, and I tried to read
the books, and I was like, nah, I can't read
these you know, they're not they were not written for me.
Like it's it's just I was not interested in them.
And that's all I really thought about it. But like
certain people, if they see something popular and they don't

immediately fall in love with it, they have to come
up with some reason why it's sinister, and it's the
same thing that leads them to reject everything else, right that,
Like if other people like something and I don't get it,
or I feel weird, I don't understand it, then it
has to be a fucking conspiracy like that used to
be one percent of this country, and through social media

it's become like half of us. Because it's a deeply
addictive way to feel.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
I think the most sinister thing about the new Hunger
Games is that they did not put nearly enough Hunter
Shaver in that movie.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
So let's know who that is.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
Let's continue to the last time.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
That's got to be predictive Hunter Shaver. So they're wanted. Okay,
So this is like very clearly, well, no, I could
go into like I could go into like they're trying
to make the kids trans right, they wanted to like
hunt down their parents, shaved right in shape, you know.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
On Earth.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Well, I'm saying you could eat turned it into a
conspiracy theory, Garrison, you could make it work.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
So last thing we are to talk about the new
hit movie Leave the World Behind.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
A Garrison made me watch this. I'm never gonna forgive
them for it.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
One of it is it is one of the most
recent examples of a movie sparking predictive programming conspiracies. It's
by the creator of mister Robot, which retroactively makes mister
Robot much worse.

Speaker 3 (40:25):

Speaker 2 (40:26):
There is a few reasons why this movie has caused
so much uproar, a major factor being that it's produced
by the Obamas, as in the presidents very responsible. There is,
there is, there's Havana syndrome references discussion of an evil
cabal that runs the world, plans to collapse the United States,
and the two child leads wear t shirts that read

obey and NASA, respectively, which has been the cause of
a lot of discourse.

Speaker 8 (40:52):
Obey NASA, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
The Left's long term plan.

Speaker 4 (41:01):

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Several of the letters in NASA are also in Stalin.
Are you gonna tell me that's a coincidence?

Speaker 4 (41:06):

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Probably, I will, I will now. I will now share this,
share this clip from Steve Bannon, who had a Dutch
far right e girl on his show to discuss the movie.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
Oh he's doing good, then, so he's doing good.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
I was worried about Steve.

Speaker 11 (41:23):
Okay, so we see a movie here now that is
co produced by the Obama's about the potential potential cyber
attack which causes mayhem, obviously, and I saw it, and
it reminded me an awful lot of the narrative portrayed
in a video published about two years.

Speaker 12 (41:41):
Ago by the World Economic Forum.

Speaker 11 (41:43):
And this was a video in which they supposedly warned
us for a cyber pandemic.

Speaker 12 (41:50):
Interesting choice of words there.

Speaker 11 (41:52):
And they detail what could happen if we are under
a cyber attack, and that the only way that we
could solve and attack like that would be to disconnect
everything and everyone completely from the Internet. So I figured,
this seems to me like a classic case of predictive
programming where not just the World Economic Forum, but now

also through movies and you know, fictional stories, they are
trying to prepare the public to the idea of cyber
attacks and the potential chaos that could come with that.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
So that is that is her her big problems with
the movie, which we'll see we'll see echoed in a
lot of the people we talk about here with the
World Economic Forums warning about a big cyber attack. She
then went on to rant about the movies anti white sentiments,
probably from the Obama's involvement.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Clearly, yeah, she has.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
She has almost a million followers followers on Twitter. Is
wild also because she's Dutch. Her last name is and
I shit you not. Vlardinger broke so great great stuff
happening in the Dutch.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Wh Yeah, what is that predicting.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
For a summary of the movie, all at this conspiracy theory,
TikTok explain the basic themes that we'll be discussing here.

Speaker 9 (43:10):
Essentially, the movie is about the downfall of civilization and
how it's done in three steps. First step being that
the government is going to be toppled from within, the
next one that it's going to be littered with disinformation
and misinformation to confuse the masses and to create chaos.
The third step, if the first and second step are
done correctly, is going to cause basically a civil war,
causing the paranoid and problematic to start turning on each other.
The Little Girl is obsessed with the last episode of

Friends called How It Ends, which is interesting because the
star of the movie, Julia Roberts, also dated Matthew Perry
way way back, Matthew Perry, who also passed away earlier
this year. The movie also references like billionaires and their bunkers,
and it references the Cabal on way more than one occasion.
The heart of it is that the Cabal has fallen,
and so nobody is in charge, and this is what's

leading to the fall of the United States of America. Essentially,
it has a very predictive programming feel to it. And
I mean with the Obamas and the constant references to water.
Planes crash in the water and a boat called the
White Lion runs up on shore from the ocean. Everybody
wants water. They're constantly drinking water. Here's some water. You
want some water? Didn't the Obama chef just drowned. I

can't watch anything anymore. I can't enjoy Summon Up. The
entire movie itself doesn't even have a plot. There's no
real storyline to this movie, and the ending is awful.
If I if I were not paying attention like I am,
I would think the movie would be terrible. There's no resolution,
there's no real start. It just seems like it's just here,
just here, it's just telling you. And one more thing.
It talks about microwave e MP.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
Like, okay, that's that's that's.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
That their brains are so melted that like they can't
see a movie made in the image of all of
their fears is made in the image of all their fears.
Like the whole it's so sunsettling. It doesn't even start properly,
it's just it just begins just in it. Like, man,

that's that's kind of how a movie goes.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
I like how she talks about She like she like
can't enjoy movies anymore, which is like the end result
of all these all these conspiracy theorists, Like they just
they just can't enjoy life because they see everything as
this series of like interconnected incidents leading to some kind
of grand narrative that makes it impossible to like actually
like be happy, which is probably the funniest thing. Also
that she thinks the movie predicted the death of the

Obama's chef, which I don't don't even know if that's real.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
If you're one of these people, that's the most significant
thing that's happened the last eighteen months. The Obama chef
and Matthew Perry are like the Rosetta Stone for everything
that's wrong in society, and not just two people who died,
because it's a year.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Because Matthew Perry used to date Jessica Roberts, who's the
star of the movie, of course, and there's friends references
all throughout the film so it's all connected.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Subtle friends' references in very subtleind you miss him if
you don't pay attention.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
So the the last conspiracy theorist I want to talk
about is this is this like metaphysical influencer named Tristan
Haggard who spends most of his time on stream selling
hormone supplements for men so that they could boost their
testosterone and stop being soy boys. While discussing various conspiracies.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Love it, he.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Says, quote cyber attacks, bio warfare, weaponized limes disease, lone
star tick, chronic wasting disease, things that get you to
stop eating meat. These things, these types of these types
of programs are seated throughout the film. I feel like
the tick bite and a lot of that stuff might
have been a little bit of that DARPA extracurricular script editions.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Yeah yeah, unquote.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah sure, yeah, of course. The fact that a kid
gets bit by a tick and gets all fucked up
is like trying to stop you from eating are.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Trying to stop you from eating meat? Quote.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
I feel like the average normy might not put together
the limes disease possible by weapon connection unquote. Amazing yeah,
I don't think the average an army might might not
put that one together.

Speaker 9 (47:10):
You know.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
That does suggest to me that all these people are
gonna die in thirty seconds if there's any real kind
of unrest because their attitude towards the idea of disease
is that was planted by the New World Order. Yeah,
people won't get sick now.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
These two guys on this stream also said that they
had to stop watching Mister Robot in the third season
because there were too many quote unquote gay scenes, which
is really funny.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
I had to stop watching it in this first season
because I don't like Remy Mallick. But you know, see
I was are built different I had.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
I had to keep watching just for Christians later, but
that's just me.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
He did make it hard to quit.

Speaker 5 (47:48):

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yeah, So most of the time, these two guys on
their conspiracy podcast just complain about how Ethan Hawk is
a weak little soy boy and all of the and
and and and all and all of the quote unquote

by POC people were more like put together and more commanding,
they constantly say BYEPAK, which is an interesting choice from
that that.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
Is really fascinating, especially since Mahershall Ali's daughter isn't really
a character in that movie, Marshall law Ali is okay
because he's he's a great, great actor. But like, it's
not like, it's not like all of the characters who
aren't white or like written stirringly. Well, most of the
characters of this movie are written like dog shits things.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Yeah, but Tristan here says, quote, there's so much predictive
programming and social engineering of how the mechanics of possible
collapse of the power grid, collapse and the communications would
result in basically chaos. And then I have I have
this little clip here of him talking talking about the
big cyber attack right now.

Speaker 13 (48:58):
A lot of people are saying, oh, this is predictive
program They're going to do this cyber attack. And you know,
we've been talking about this type of stuff for years,
right with the cyber polygon on exercises and the World
Economic Forum, and you're working with defense contractors in military intelligence, whatnot,
working on the possible scenario of a cyber attack. Right

the cyber attack is one of these scenarios that they're saying,
it's got to happen, it's coming, the big cyber attacks coming.
But I feel like films like this, The intention could
be to make people so afraid of just the mere
possibility of a total collapse like.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
This, so they obviously sound like they know what they're
talking about there. That's very very very polished. Now Tristan
thinks that he has a better idea to kind of
seed collapse.

Speaker 3 (49:48):

Speaker 2 (49:49):
A better way to implement this would be to not
really roll out a huge wide scale power outages and
communications outages, but make it up protracted, small and localized
so that you can still maintain a certain level of
propagand and control, and then create enough fear to where
people will accept the mandatory digital ID for the Internet
and the Central Bank digital currencies and whatnot. It's like

a limited type of thing, a regional type of thing
that then is hyped up to be the worst thing ever.

Speaker 3 (50:15):

Speaker 2 (50:16):
These guys are really like talking about this mandatory digital
ID and the Central Bank digital currencies as being this
big threat and there's going to just be any day
this this this cyber attack which is gonna which is
going to force us to all adopt this this uh,
this digital ID to be able to sign into the internet. Quote,
all you have to do is have most of the

normal people afraid enough of the possible scenario and tease it.
It's almost like a cyber attack brinksmanship type of thing unquote,
so they think that, you know, you don't actually need
to have the cyber attack, you just need to have
people afraid enough that it could happen by by talking
about it in media, film, TV, you know, all all this.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Sort of stuff.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
You can't even get people to like change their past words.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Like it's so funny because like the past few months,
there actually has been a decent number of.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
Cyber attacks constantly, yes, which.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Are yeah, like a very like a constant influx, which
are all just being constantly handled, and it's it's not
led to any of these massive apocalyptic scenarios that they're
talking about.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
No, I mean, like the movie has. Part of how
the movie has to make this, like has to make it,
Like why the movie is set in the middle of nowhere,
is that if it's set in a city and the
internet goes out, the way people would actually respond would
be like the way they respond when there's just some
sort of random outage. Initially like like uh, oh shit,
my phone doesn't work right now, I guess I've got
to figure something else out for a second. Like it's

it's easier to have it seem disconnected and like completely
disorienting when you have everybody like out in the middle
of nowhere without other people around to make shit makes sense.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
I'm gonna play Well, what one more clip from from
Tristan's livestream here.

Speaker 14 (51:59):
I feel like also, I mean, they haven't they have
been building all of this technocracy stuff to throw it away, right,
They've been building it to implement it. So if there
was an outage or the cyber attack or whatever, this
would be some temporary, limited thing, you know, hyped up
into oblivion and oh it was all the Trump Maga people,

or it was all the Christians that did it to
go working with Russia, Right, That's what they're gonna say.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
Yeah, yeah, totally. They're gonna blame the big cyber attack
on the Trump Christians. That's gonna be who's gonna who's
gonna launch the big attack?

Speaker 8 (52:33):
Totally absolutely to everyone will assume knew how to do
a hack is the Trumpers. Yeah, first we taught them
how to change the settings on their smart TV, and
now they've hacked the planet.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
What do you do as soon as you turn off
motion smoothing, then you're ready to go. They're gonna hack
the system, get in, shut everything down. Oh so this
Tristan guy was getting like hundreds of dollars in super
chats on this stream. He's he's verified on YouTube, he
has over one hundred thousand subscribers, and he is one
of the has some of the like not not very

hidden anti semitism, but like, I am kind of surprised
that he's able to say as much as he is
while still being verified and getting all this money, because
he has this line towards the end of his of
his stream quote, the little girl is inside the house
with the bunker that everyone else was trying to go to,
and she's sitting at the table surrounded by like goy slop.

She's just got all the freaking kibbl foods like Funians
and doritos. She's having a feast of gluttony. It's all
freaking globo homo kibble, fruity pebbles and stuff. She's just
gluttonously consuming a bunch of you know, trash processed foods.
She's just all alone, just looking kind of autistic. Unquote
what the fuck? So, yeah, he's just talking about like

goy slop, like there's like the like, like the Jews
are creating junk food to pacify.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
I want you to eat worms and stuff.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah, exactly, So that is most of most of his
interesting opinions. I'll leave the world behind at a pretty
bad movie.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
A pretty bad movie. You know, there is one real
conspiracy theory about it, and it has nothing to do
with the Obamas or predictive programming. We see a character
at the beginning of the movie, a survivalist, prepping to
take care of his family even though no one knows
a disastro is coming, and later knew. The end of
the movie, when Ethan Hawk's son is sick, we meet

the survivalist again. It turns out he's a handyman who
lives in the edge of town, and he's played by
Kevin Bacon now Garrison. In the classic film Trimmers, Kevin
Bacon plays a handyman character who with his friend Earl
Bassett played by Fred Ward, has to fight off an
attack by subterranean ancient giant worm beasts in order to

save himself in his small community and Dune. In Just
like Dune, Garrison and in the lore of the Trimmers movies,
Val McKee. Kevin Bacon's character is not seen in further
movies because he gets rich and he marries Ronda le
Beck and they move off somewhere. Maybe they moved to
the northeast, to an island off the coast of the

East Coast, where he bought a house and became a
survivalist prepper informed by his experiences with his good friend
Bert Gummer, the local survivalist who shot a giant worm
to death and maybe leave the world behind. As a
stealth sequel to the first Trimmers movie, showing what Kevin
Bacon's character does later in life.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
I would be so much more of a fan of
SAMs Mill if he if he tried to, if he
tried to put the Tremor's movies into the canon of
mister Robot like.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
It would have been, it would have been perfect. I
would have completely changed my opinion on this movie. He
shout up to Kevin Bacon's house and he'd come out
with a gun, and they'd been like, look, we just
need some antibiotics. He's like, antibiotics, what about the fucking worms?
How are you people walking around? And then the movie
ends at the end of the movie it was all
a Trimmers sequel.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
You you you Korean Iranian terrorists went into the wrong
reck roof.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
So I lastly just.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Want to talk a little bit about some of like,
you know, the obvious problems with this predictive programming idea, right.
It completely annoys the fact that humans use art as
a form of cultural creation, like we imagine futures in
our art specifically because they could come into being, like
a lot of a lot of like sci fi that
influences technology comes from this. Then that's also kind of

the basis of of Mark Fisher and Nick Lan's like
a cultural hyperstition where you specifically make art to have
this larger cultural effect that then it can bring things
into being as opposed to the more like individualistic like
use of like occultism. And then a big, a big
part of all of this, this predictive programming thing is
also just like apaphenia, right, It's it's people creating connections
and patterns and random data because it's it's actually easy

to look back, can pick out past media that has
seemingly predicted events, but it's much harder to identify current
media that is actually predicting future events. Right, this is
this is a part of hindsight bias, the tendency that
we have to look at past events is more predictable
than what they actually were. It is it's a common
psychological response to a traumatic event like like a big

pandemic or a school shooting. There's also you know, all
of these all of these predicted programming theories fall into
these kind of contradictory depictions. Which is why the which
is why the Hunger Games guy like uh calls it
like reverse symbolism. Right, it's it's if this if if
predictive programming is orchestrated by a shadowy cabal seeking to

implement a totalitarian takeover by normalizing an incredibly oppressive government.

Speaker 10 (57:44):

Speaker 2 (57:44):
In media and film TV, why is the said media
almost exclusively about like rebel heroes overthrowing and evil to
talitarian government. Right, it doesn't, it doesn't actually match. And
there's been a lot of like cultural studies showing that
whether you portray something in media as positive or negative
will strongly affect the audience's takeaway of the stimulus. So

if you show something positively, they're more likely to view
it as a positive thing. If you show something negatively,
they're more likely to view it as a negative thing. Right.
This sounds very obvious, but you do have to do
like social science to actually like show this is a
real pattern. And then finally, I will end this by
quoting from that article from the Ohio State University quote,

there are a few purposes for predictive programming, and not
all of them have to deal with tyranny. Some of
them are meant to lessen the blow of an event
like nine to eleven or as previously mentioned, at the
Sandy Hook shootings. The contradiction arises when thinking about why
the government would want to warn us or prepare us
for Sandy Hook. The whole point of Sandy Hook conspiracies
is to doubt the event even happened, so the government

would create a conversation around gun control. This would defeat
the purpose of staging it if the government was trying
to ensure a smaller or inexistent response unquote. Especially like
looking back at what we talk about with like the Simpsons,
it's it's just a fun game people play, right, Like
it's it sounds like a fun a fun world to
to to live in. If you can imagine this interconnected web,

connecting every single thing that happens to your own experiences.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
It's it's it's it's.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
A way to turn turn the world into like this,
this great mystery that you can solve instead of just
like experiences that you have to live through.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
These people need real hobbies.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Like Finally, the thing I wanted to mention is that
the the upcoming discussion of predictive programming is all centered
around this movie coming out next month called Civil War,
which many many of these people in their discussion of
Leave the World Behind are are are very much talking
about how Civil War just seems like a sequel to

Leave the World Behind, because Leave the World Behind seems
like it's set up like a possible American civil war,
and how this upcoming movie is itself going to be
a massive predictive programming operation to prepare American citizens for
civil conflict with each other. So have fun seeing a
whole bunch of conspiracy theories develop around this movie that
comes out next month.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Yeah, that'll be that'll be good. I mean, I wish
people would start some conspiracy theories around. Alex Garland's TV
showed devs, which is dog shit also and one of
the one of the worst uses of that guy from
Parks and rec that I've seen in a long time. Heartbreaking.
They use math to see the past, Garrison.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
That kind of reminds me of this movie I watched
for research called Knowing with with Nick Cage, who finds
a piece of paper that has something that's able to
predict like catastrophic events. Alex Jones thought this movie predicted
an oil rig explosion in the Gulf of Mexico. But
besides that, you don't see it. You don't really see
it much in these in these circles, despite its very

like obvious, like predictive focus.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Mostly Dev's features a bunch of very good actors standing
around and staring at a screen where grainy picture of
Jesus from the past is lit up in like movie
theater size screens like it's it's it's very it's very mid.
That's what I'm saying about DEVS. It's pretty mid. Folks
don't watch DEVS.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Yeah, I mean, same thing with this Obama movie. So, yeah,
watch out for the Obama's new movies, which are all
gonna see the collapse of humanity, as well as the
A twenty four The War movie, which is probably probably
devious in some way, so have fun with that.

Speaker 10 (01:01:28):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
I'll say this, Barack Obama, it's not his fault, obviously
that a bunch of racists lost their mind when he
became president, But knowing that it was kind of responsible
for him to make his debut movie production a movie
about a cabal taking over the government using secret weapons.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Absolutely, you knew what was.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
Going to happen, Barack. You're not a dumb man to
tell me that's not what was going to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Absolutely, all right, Well, I think that does it for
us today. Have fun predicting the end of this episode.

Speaker 10 (01:02:16):
Hello, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and night. I'm
Andrew Sage and I run the YouTube channel Andrewism. But
this is it could happen here today. I'm carrying on
my discussion of everyone's favorite subject, collapse. I'm here, of
course with Garrison, and last time we spoke about the what, why,

and how of collapse, as well as in many ways
people respond when confronted with this crisis. So if you're
curious about that, you can listen to the previous discussion.
One thing I didn't touch on last time was the
various levels of awareness that people have about collapse, because
as with most things in this life, it exists on
more of a spectrum than anything. We're all on this

learning journey and some people are further along, if you
could even really relate, it's not way than others. Some
discussions of collapse are informed by author Paula Shafferka's Stages
of Collapse. There are five stages in total, and the
first stage is dead asleep, which is where you're really

just vibing. You know, you can see some issues in
the world here and there, but that could be fixed, right.
All we had to do is organize a bit better,
change our behaviors, slightly tweak the rules, and we'll be fine.
But then you move on to the next stage, which
is the awareness of one fundamental problem is when you realize, oh,
there's something structurally wrong. What you only see in one

part of that structural flow, so it seems everything is
not you know, cash money, you know, maybe fond about
the depths of systemic racism or imperialism, or overfission or
mass extinction or fracket. And you know, as one does,
you start to freak out a little bit. You know,
maybe you mobilize to bring some awareness of this issue,

just so people know that you know something is wrong,
let's fix it, and that one problem can even consume
you entirely. And then consuming all that knowledge about that
one problem, you keep learning, and if you really do
keep learning and are open to learn more and more
about the issue, eventually reach an awareness of many problems.

The next stage. The more you learn, the more you worry.
You take in all sorts of information and begin to
see how complex and multifaceted the world's problems are. Now
it's hard for you to even prioritize which is so
need to be tell first. In fact, it's so overwhelmed
you do have be reluctant to acknowledge new problems because
you already have so much on your plate. Alas, you

cannot ignore the other problems forever, not unless you want
to keep running in circles. So you get to the
stage of awareness of the interconnections between the many problems,
it starts to dawn on you that there are no
easy solutions. Shutting down factory farms mainly off millions and
leave perhaps hundreds of millions for a complete meal, or
efforts to raise the standard of living in the developing

world through industrialization in the footsteps of the developed world
just might accelerate the Earth demise and profit a select
few at least you thinking on the systems level, now
beyond the symptoms towards the source. Perhaps there is no
one solution, Perhaps the gravity of such a solution maybe
too much to pay. So finally, at the last stage,

you get to awareness that the predicament encompasses all aspects
of life, so much so you might even pine after
ignorance as you realize that this series of problems, or
rather this all encompassing capital p predicament, includes everything we do,
how we do, what we do, how we relate, and
how we affect the entire planet. The predicaments is so

massive you might even reach a point where you're just like,
there is no capital s solution to this capital be predicament,
no easy answer, no quick fix, and you can't do
it alone. So now what now? In the last episode,
I would have spoken about a couple of different responses
that people have had to collapse slumber, denial, apathy, preoccupation, hedonism,

overwhelm and blind hope, individual change, progress, worship, leader worship,
apocalypse worship, despair, but as promised for this episode, I
want to be a bit more constructive in focus and
so to answer the question, really is there any way out?

But before I get to that garrison, do you think
there are any stages am I have missed in that
progression of understanding? Or what have you observed in your experience?

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
I mean one thing I kind of will Reitter eight,
that is, this is something that was talked about a
lot when when Robert was putting together the second season
of It could happen here is is trying to avoid Yeah,
like like like looking at collapse as one singular moment
and more as this Like it's a more gauzy and

more fuzzy slow crumbling of things that we have grown
to rely on. And it sometimes you could like envision
it eventually reaching to some sort of tipping point, but
other times the tipping points never really ever reach. It's
it's it's just it's just this this forever kind of
crumbling and then rebuilding and then crumbling and rebuilding, and

you get to like a ship a theseus situation where eventually,
at one point the thing is completely different from what
it used to be, but there was never like a
full moment of quote unquote collapse. It was just this
this continual like crumbling and then becoming into the next thing.

Speaker 10 (01:07:59):
It kind of saw and similar to what John Michael
Greer described, No, not John Michael Greer, David Korwitz. He
talks about this idea of like oscillating decline. Yeah, yeah,
these these recessions, these declines, and you have a couple
of peaks when things have to climb up a little
bit and then and then the overall picture is like

a downward trend, but there are some like brief aspects
of recovery.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Yeah, And that's definitely a mode that I think about
a lot. You know, a lot of people are worried
of like some like some event triggering a much kind
of larger scale collapse. And I think it's good too
to focus on all of the smaller, the smaller crumbling
that's just always happening all of the time, no matter
where you live.

Speaker 10 (01:08:47):
So I mean my experience is pretty similar. I think
one of the first issues that I became like fundamentally
aware of was climate change. Sure, of course, I mean
you crack up any one of those like I don't
know if you ever got one of those big books
of knowledge as a child.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had.

Speaker 10 (01:09:06):
I had a few kind of plastic pages. Yeah, just
so they have all these big, amazing pictures.

Speaker 5 (01:09:11):

Speaker 10 (01:09:12):
So I remember seeing those in one of those books,
like this huge like mountain of trash and seeing like
this this floating garbage patch in the ocean, and I
was just like wow. And then later on, so the
first thing wasn't even climate change, it was pollution. And
then later on I started doing about climate change, and
then that really became like my nature thing. And then

later on I as I got older and I learn't
learned history and that sort of thing, I came to
economics and all that stuff. I came to realize that
just how big situation was. And now I'm here. So,
as I said in the previous episode, we really don't
need blind hope, and I should be upondly clear, we

definitely don't need hopeless despair. It's a little rhyme there.
So how do we respond to this predicament? The short
answer is that I don't know. The long answer is
this whole podcast episode. I mean I could give some platitudes,

you know, we need sobriety, clarity, lucidity. I mean Paul
Shafuka points out in his article that those in stage
five awareness who see that the predicament encompasses all aspects
of life look to one of two paths. And I
mean I've since adapted into Britain and remixed the two paths,

so not one to one with what he had in mind,
but you should get the gist. The first path of
response to the predicaments of collapse is the inner path
of self healer. It's a manifestation of that fake Can
the quote be the change you want to see in
the world, sort of retreating into oneself, digging deep and
personal to helping your self awareness. I mean some people

take this to mean some sort of hyper individual thing,
and its low key is if you tilt and twist
your head slightly, you can maybe see it in a
different light. I don't think it has to mean becoming
a monk or an aesthetic. I don't think it means
denying systems or ignoring the painful truth. I think it
involves taken in the gravity of what we're dealing with,

such a grand scale issue, and putting it in a
personal context, unabstracting it and understanding it through a more
managical lens. I'm not one to fall back on evolutionary
terminism or anything like that, but I do think often
about how we kind of weren't meant to be processing

this entire planet, this entire population.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
You know.

Speaker 10 (01:11:51):
I think we're very good at dealing with immediate problems,
very good at looking at situations that are before us,
that are directly impacting us, and look at how we
can solve that. And of course, no local solution necessarily
is going to buy itself solve a global crisis, but

medley of local solutions can. But we're not even talking
here with this inner path of local solutions yet, we're
talking even at a smaller scale, in the local, at
the base unit of society, which is the self. So
you might continue pursuing knowledge of the issues, start developing

your practical skills and people's skills, trying to minimalize your
lifestyle and preparation for the economic and social shocks of collapse,
perhaps seeking to settle somewhere you determined it's best suited
to whether the coming storms, which I believe. I saw
a video like some years ago where this guy was
saying the Midwest might be the best place environmentally to settle.

I don't know if you'll cover that in the fust
to a second season that could happen, yet, I.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
Mean there was something definitely we we looked we were
looking into during some of the research phases of a
lot of the agriculture that is currently based in the
south of the United States every every every decade is
going to start moving up and up and up, and
particularly like Canada is going to enter a very large
agricultural economic boom. That process has already started. But yes,

there's gonna like be this this slow rising level of
like industrial farming, which first of all, isn't isn't actually
great for the land itself. Like once all of the
land that's abandoned in the Southern States, like after it's
been tapped for so long, it's really just like dust,
like it's it's not actually useful dirt anymore. But it's

all of that stuff's going to start moving farther and
farther north as the as the conditions for growth start changing.
And mean, it's the same thing for a lot of
a lot of things that are grown and like more
like jungly forest mountain areas where every year, like coffee
and chocolate. They have to start they have to they
have to start moving the crops further up the mountain.

And again that's that doesn't that's obviously not a great
long term solution because the mountain is only so high
that it costs and it costs a lot of money
to constantly be moving your crops higher and higher up
a mountain. Indeed, but that is the sort of like
agricultural and like economic drive. It's going to start getting

more and more common to supply the amount of food
that Americans are used to eating. And it won't like
in the case of coffee, like it's not like actual
coffee beans are not going to be as common as
they were today or twenty years ago. It's going to
become more of like a higher priced luxury item. And

I'm sure, I'm sure Americans will get their caffeine fixed
some other way. But yeah, it's like that those those
sorts changes are going to become more and more and
more commonplace.

Speaker 10 (01:15:03):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And this is why you know,
anarchists get I think unfairly labeled like past like like

excessively a ca area or maybe parochial and the focus.
But I think that as we talk about the degradation
of soils, We talk about the failures in the long
term of monocultural large scale farm and the only way

that we're really going to see that sort of land
restored again is through the sort of agro forestry, puma culture,
you know, small scale practices that involve rebuilding that relationship
between the people and the land itself. Regardden outside of

the US, I don't know what my game plan would be.
The dry seasons are certainly dry, and I think last
year actually was one of our driest wet seasons, So
I don't really plan on leaving, but I do think
about I do find myself thinking about, Okay, where am

I gonna, like, but where am I going to settle?
You know, Like, where am I going to be able
to like safeguard myself and stay connected with people and
live you know. So in a sense, I am on

that inner path, educating myself as much as possible, trying
to develop my practical skills, focusing on what I could
do as an individual to make changes in my own
life and partially in my surroundings the way that is manageable. Hassan,
do you see yourself in this path? As well.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
I I'm not sure I tried to not I I
spent a lot of time thinking about the future, I guess,
but I try not to lock myself into any any
particular pathway. I don't know, like I've already started to
move around the US, leaving leaving the places where I've
kind of grown up for the majority of my life

that are actually decently suited for for some kind of
climate collapse. But yeah, I I I don't know, I
have I have risk. I have some form of hesitancy
to like seed territory or just like like right off
places as just being like not worth it, like especially

especially like the South, the American Southeast, just like that
there's kind of a there's kind of a nocean, just
to like write off large swaths of areas, whether like agriculturally,
like climate wise, or like even like politically being like, oh,
this is just where all of the fascists are gonna live,
and like that's not that's not true. This this has
this area of the country is actually is one of

the most diverse parts of the country, and to write
it off all is like just like Republican Land is
I think is grossly misguided, absolutely On the other hand,
if things get really really bad, I'm also gonna hold
onto my Canadian passport and just go and have that,
have that as a backup option, just to just to
go up north into uh into the snowy desolate of

northern Alberta.

Speaker 10 (01:18:39):
So I mean I kind of a shove. Yeah, if
Bush comes to shove. Antarctica is the final frontier.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
Right, So, like I I I always kind of I'm
I have that backup option, which is easier than a
lot of people. But it's it's it's it's something. It's
something I try not to like. I don't like relying
on that kind of notion.

Speaker 10 (01:19:00):
I feel you, I feel you, yeah, And I mean
that's part of why I don't say this in our
path is fully satisfactory to me. Yeah, even though I
feel it's a path of unconsciously chosen due to some
of the challenges I've faced on the outer path. But
still what clicks with me more is the outer path.
I've also called it balanced realism, which is, you know,

hard to balance because a lot of people who confuse
realism with pessimism, you know, you just see everything being awful.
As I'm a realist, you know, But truthfully, I think
taking the outer path of balance realism means shaken off
the burdens and blinders are both pessimism and optimism and
alarmism and denihialism and fatalism and hedonism and all these

other setbacks and obstacles.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
All the other.

Speaker 10 (01:19:51):
Except aneurism. Trying to keep watching anwism, please, but you're
really loosing yourself from your own hopes and fears. Really,
I think the way I try to see it is
I have no idea, and no one can really know

what outcome there will be. You know, up to now,
I have a better profit, I have meta sayer, I
have meta fortune teller. I don't think any of us
really know what the outcome will be. And there's so
many factors that you can't even calculate and take into accome. Yeah,
I mean, for all we know, I mean, it will

be very disruptive of our reality, right, and personally, I'm
not really a believer in like there be an interspeller
alien species, but you know, imagine just out of the blue,
like on a random Thursday afternoon, there was an actual

alien invasion. I don't think any of us can really
predict that. Of course, there are things that we do
have the abilits to predict and work with and stuff
like that. But really, of course that's an ex saggery
to the example. But I want to be able to
recognize and accept any number of possible outcomes in the
face of such a grand predicament. I think maintaining realism

is difficult, especially with so much information. Who have been
around in the ether, and you don't know what's true
and what's not. But I think it's necessary. You know,
you agitate, your fight, your build for the best, but
you also prepare and defend for the worst prefecide. By
the way, on optimism, I see really two sides of
collapse optimism. Both I think are well placed, but both

unfortunately misled. There's the optimism that collapse absolutely will not
take place, which I think is a sort of optimism
that doesn't really quite understand where collapse, what forms collapse
can take. And then it's a sort of optimism that
collapse will take place but will overcome it. I mean,
the house of collapse might not line up fully with

our predictions, but there is a very clear trajectory that
we are on the idea that collapse is just not
in the cards at all, really feels like wishful thinking
humanity I don't think has the plot armor that we
tend to think it does. And that lack of plot
armor also means that there's really no guarantee that we

will overcome collapse if it does occur. There are no
show outcomes, to be sure, but that doesn't mean a
bit destined to come out of this unscathed. But what
do you think of optimism considering what you do for work?

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:22:45):
I honestly don't think about optimism very much. I see
a lot of bad stuff, like every day as a
part of my job, I think about a lot of
like grim stuff, I suppose, but it's honestly not something
I think about it. I think it's it's it's a
little bit of its own bubble. I think there's a
utility for having hope but not having a sense of

just like static optimism, I think. I think hope is
a is a is a useful thing to have in
your brain, but but not not have it be as
like this just like umbrella that you apply to every
single aspect of your life in the way like optimism is,
but in terms of like when you're mentioning, like the
alien thing. I think one way that people do think

about collapse or trying to cope with it a lot
is like it's kind of some form of like disx machana,
like like this this something will happen, whether that's some
other like catastrophic event or like apocalyptic event, or it's
like some new found scientific advancement that one day will
pop into existence and then we'll solve all of these problems.

I think both of those are kind of a form
of a dix macana, and both of those are actually
ways of coping, even though one is more apocalyptic and
one's more utopian.

Speaker 10 (01:24:02):
I thought you were talking about the video game series,
you know, no, Like I was thinking, oh, yeah, you
know ex cybern etics.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
Yeah, sure, sure, I we like that kind of that
kind of is its own form of dis x makta
in terms.

Speaker 3 (01:24:19):
Of this, this.

Speaker 2 (01:24:21):
This thing entering from backstage that now solves all of
these problems we have in the story of the world.
But I mean that is I think that's that's the
thing that I think a lot of people try to
find some so it kind of allows you to not
be in denial about the current predicament, but still envision
a future that is pretty similar to what we currently have,

just with this like magical invention or this or this
like or this like apocalyptic event that forces people to
like actually solve some some degree of problems.

Speaker 9 (01:24:54):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
It's kind of it's kind of like the thing in
Alan Moore's Watchman, being like if there was a giant squid,
then the whole world would team up together solve the problem,
and I don't know, that seems a little bit less likely.

Speaker 10 (01:25:06):
Yeah, Unfortunately, climate collapse, ecological collapse is not a giant squid,
and there is no Doctor Manhattan.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
Yeah, and even even after COVID, right, you have this massive,
like world threatening event, and it's it's kind of the
perfect example of it's like a you know, a version
of the giant squid, and that did not lead to
the whole world working together to solve this big problem.

Speaker 10 (01:25:30):
I mean, to be fair, it was like a giant
invisible squid.

Speaker 3 (01:25:35):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 10 (01:25:36):
To be fair as well, the giant invisible squid is
still there and like regularly claiming lives, we kind of
just go up all with alladays, kind of ignoring its like, oh,
you know, there goes Fred, you know, snatched up by
the giant squid.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
I'm sure in the Watchmen world there would be a
great many of like squid deniers, of people who are like, no,
this squid was never real. This this couid was all fake.
That was all faked in New York City. It was
it was, It wasn't real like that.

Speaker 10 (01:26:10):
I long said, there's no opinion that everybody in the
world would agree with, you know, like if you were
to say, for example, that all humans need food to live,
there's gonna be a contrarian who's gonna tell you, actually,
I survive on photosynthesis. I'm a breatheteria. You know, there's

there's no uncontroversial tea because they will. I think there
will be a deniers no matter what. You know, as
you were talking about optimism and sort of the dark
things you're dealing with, it reminded me of something that

that shook me. Yesterday. I was watching shown on YouTube
Sean's video on Palistine and he shared the story of
this young person and boy who had filmed the video
celebrating himself winning kat in a thousand subscribers, and he
was sharing his goals of you know, he may get

in ten tho one hundred thousand, maybe even a million,
and he was killed last year by the idea. So
I think, I mean, it's connected, but not entirely related.
We're talking more long lines of ecological collapse and systems

collapse and this sort of thing. And while it's true
that for much of the world collapse is not going
to look like a singular event, I think it is
also important to recognize that and remember that there are
people for whom collapse, or rather they are subjective collapse.

The collapse of their world, their way of life they exists,
is staring them in the face.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):

Speaker 10 (01:28:04):
Now, you know, I don't want to compare misfortunes, but
you know, there is that reality that you know, some
people are facing like cataclysm right in their face, and
for others it's like a slower boon, but ultimately similar feats.

You know.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
That was something we were also considering when putting together
some of the climate change focused earlier episodes from a
few years back. And like the effects of climate change
or just collapse in general are not like uniform, right
they they it first targets on the periphery and like whatever,

that's kind of a faulty way of doing that right,
Like an old term would be like the third world.

Speaker 3 (01:28:54):
We were trying to find better, better terms for this
and that of.

Speaker 10 (01:28:57):
Them really fully work.

Speaker 4 (01:28:59):

Speaker 10 (01:29:00):
I was actually recently talking and I stream about how
like like I'm just like I feel like all these
distinctions people trying to drow, like the West is just
the east or you know, global North is schoogle. So
they're all a bit messy. Yes, actual application.

Speaker 3 (01:29:17):
But the people on.

Speaker 2 (01:29:19):
Like the the edges of empire, the edges of like
the Imperial engine, are going to face this a lot
sooner than the people in the imperial core and like that.
That is just whether that's collapsed through like war like
like like forced collapse, or that's collapsed through like environmental

factors like but both of those are often the case.
People are going to do a lot of work to
maintain the mecca of New York City, but they're not
going to care for a small town, not.

Speaker 10 (01:29:52):
Even a small town like Jakarta could sink into the ocean.

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
And absolutely like just like who kires, right, hurricanes taking
out like act like care just to be clear, the
whole countries, Yeah, no, absolutely, like those these things do
not do not get held on the same the same level.

Speaker 10 (01:30:11):
Yeah, yeah, so I mean I'm supposed to answer my
own question. I think you do need a dose of
optimism to keep you from falling to despair or completely
checking out to the struggle, just for the sake of
your mental health, but not to the point of blindness

from the truth. I don't think there's anything wrong with
maintaining some level of emotional cushion in to keep you
going to you know, fuel you to wake up in
the morning and and make it through your day. But
not to the point of the delusion, I suppose. And
I think this is this is the value of the

outer path as well. And I think this outer path
is fueled by a bit of in a grace and peace.
You know, you've let go of some level of naivety
and passivity. You're moving, acting, doing, adapting. And here, of course,
I'm thinking of like the Puma culture movement, the Transition
Towns Network, or the other ongoing movements and projects, none

of which are perfect, mind you, none of which are
going to say the whole world or anything, but they
Sidney try. And I'm as thinking of like the movement
for the MST in Brazil, and you know the Leavia Campecina,
who we would have interviewed in people about recently. These groups,
these movements, they struggles are thinking, are looking local, thinking

global and actually really making a difference. I think that
outlook is necessary. I think we need more political movements
it could be honest about reality that aren't waiting for
a safere or politician that aren't wait sensor it's too
late to act, that aren't removing power from the hands
of people and placement elsewhere move instead of far less

reactive and more proactive, and maybe we'll never see a
global shift to the growth or a steady state economy
in all lifetimes without a major disruption and shifting the
efforts of grounds roots movements. We can definitely see small scale,
local resilient systems springing up and spreading that are better
able to endure the coming economic, socio ecological shocks. I

am as pro social revolution as they come, but I
think we need a more expansive understanding of what that entails.
I was reading actually this Morning Anarchy, a graphic guide
by Clifford Harper, and he spoke about how sixty five

years of persistent agitation and organization culminated in the largest
far reaching revolutionary movement of the modern times. I think
when we discuss the Spanish Civil War and the cnt FAI,
a lot of people get caught up from always happening
during the Civil War. But I think I don't think

there's not focused on the fact that, you know, these
organizations were moving and shaken in their communities and in
their regions for decades prior to any major you know
pop off. You know, like a general strike does not
happen overnight, and insurrection does not happen overnight, espectially not

without the level of broad scale support they will be
necessary to sustain those efforts. On the topic of the
Transition Movement in particular, that movement was officially started in
two thousand and six in the UK, but had some
routes before then. In two thousand and four, primic culture
designer Rob Hopkins task students at Kinsale through their Education college,

with applying primical principles to the concept of peak oil,
leading to the creation of the Kinseal Energy Descent Action Plan.
Two students, Louis Rooney and Catherine Dune developed the Transition
Town's concept, presented into the Kinsale Town Council which adopts
the plan for energy independence. Then Hopkins later moved to Totney's, England,

where he, along with Naresh Kiang gray Kian Grandee, developed
these concepts into the Transition model. Transition Town Totney's founded
in early two thousand and six, serious inspiration for other
transition initiatives globally. Early two thousand and seven, the Transition
Network UK charity was co founded by Rob Hopkins, Peter
Lippmann and Ben Brangwin his support and the sound transition

concepts worldwide. By two thousand and eight, product had expanded,
with numerous communities becoming official transition towns. These are things
you don't care about in the news. These are positive
developments that have happened under the radar for decades. At
this point. By May twenty ten, over four hundred community
initiatives will recognize as official transition towns in various countries,

reflecting the diverse range of communities involved, from villages and
neighborhoods to cities and city boroughs. The initiatives who developed
citizens cooperatives, renewable energy, local and sustainable food systems, new
cooperative economic models, sustainable transport systems, energy to send action plans,
and even hearts and Soul groups built to respond to

the emotional components of collapse and transition. In the book
How Everything Can Collapse, which I referenced in the previous episode,
Paulo Savine and Raphael Stephen's talk about the paradox of collapse,
and I'll leave it in their words because I think
it was really well put.

Speaker 4 (01:35:50):

Speaker 10 (01:35:52):
From a philosophical point of view, transition is a strange
and paradoxical thing. It's both catastrophists optimistic, that is to say,
both lucid and pragmatic. Lucid because the people involved in
these movements are not in denial about catastrophes. Most of
them have given up the myth of eating out growth
as well as the myth of the apocalypse. They know

and believe in what awaits us, and generally receptive to
catastrophistic language because they already are committed to this search
for real alternatives. Pragmatic because catastrophists political thinking. It's not
apocalyptic in nature. It's not claim to worried about the
end of the world, but more precisely about a sudden
and potentially traumatic reorganization of ecosystems and societies. Neither business

as usual nor the end of the world, just a
world to invent together here and now and good. The
transition movement is vitally rooted in imagination, and I've spoken
about the vitality of imagination in the past. In fact,
my video on the subject was partially inspired by Rob
Hopkins's book, From What Is to What If You imagine?

You sketch out the details, and you roll up your
sleeves and you make it real. The development of the
Transition Networks project, Rob Hopkins, along with others, published the
Transition Handbook, which is structured in three parts. Versus the head,
which are the facts of the situation. Then you have
the heart, which are the emotional consequences and desire futures.

And then you have the hands, which is how you
get from imagination to action. I just thought that was
a really great approach, even though the Handbook is dated
in some ways. Of course, guiding people through the process
of even accepting transition and getting them on the outer
path works well on the small and personal scale, but
there is a challenge of scale. Savine and Steven's point

out that you can't exactly announce on a large platform
listen up, everybody, prepare for the end of the world.

Speaker 4 (01:37:45):
As you can.

Speaker 10 (01:37:45):
Imagine, it ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy. It's
kind of like telling people not to rush out and
buy upol the toilet. People transition on larger scales is
differult not to say it's not difficult to build the
local communities resilience from disruptions in food, energy, climate, et cetera,

but on the macro scale is even more difficult. At
least if you're determined to take on a top down approach.
You get what I'm saying is because this isn't exactly
a problem that rulers are capable of solving. The debt
system is not going to go away by decree. The
energy system that fills their coffers won't shift until it

profits them either. And in seeing like a States, the
anthropologist James Scott spends a lot of time discussing just
how that top down perspective of the world is inherently
limited and incapable of effecting those sorts of changes. But

thankfully the people able to act where rulers won't. As
being the Stevens put it, transitioners to that wait for governments.
They already invent in ways of living through this collect
through this collapse in a non tragic way. They are
not waiting for the worst, but building for the best. Ultimately,
I'm trying to get on the level of the Transition
Town realists on the outs of path that are building networks,

building community, and building sustainability. Highly suggests that if you're
looking for ways to help out in your local situation,
check out the Transition Town network and see how you
can tap in or start your own initiative and your
own area. That's all I have for now or power
to all the people. This is it could happen here.

I am Andrew, This is Garason, Peace.

Speaker 12 (01:39:53):
Hello, this is it could happen here, and I am
sureen Today we have an update for you about what
has happened in Palestine. There is a lot that is
happening in Palestine, way way too much to cover in
a single podcast episode, but I hope this at least
gives you a general idea of where we currently stand,
just for clarity and context. I am recording this on Tuesday,

March twelfth, so any numbers I mention, unfortunately and probably
are different now at this point, there have been over
five months of bombardment and genocide, and this has caused
a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, with children starving to death
due to malnutrition and dehydration. As Israel has imposed restrictions

on aid deliveries to Gaza, five months of genocide on
top of more than a decade and a half of
blockade have caused relentless mental harm to children in Gaza.
According to our report released by Save the Children on Tuesday,
twenty five Palestinians and Graza, including out least twenty children
and a two month old baby, have died of malnutrition

and dehydration. According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, the
true death toll due to starvation is feared to be
much higher as many Palestinians, particularly in northern Gaza, face
famine and are almost entirely cut off from the severely
limited humanitarian aid which is entering Gaza through the southern
Rapah crossing. Many Israelis have also been blocking aid from

entering Gaza. A group of Israeli protesters have been blocking
aid trucks from crossing into the Gaza Strip for weeks now,
vowing that quote not a single loaf of bread should
reach those trapped in the tiny region of the Gaza
strip until all remaining hostages are released. The area around
Karam Shalom, which is Israel's only functioning border crossing with Gaza,

is a closed military zone, but the IOF officers and
their presence there hardly deters the dozens of protesters, who
are mostly settlers, families of hostages, and deactivated military reservists.
It does not deter them from trekking through the area
and protesting in an attempt to slow AID trucks from
entering Razza. I'm noticing right now that I'm interchangeably using

Gaza and Razza. Raza's just how you say in Arabic.
U sofoye if I jump around my apologies on the ground,
CNN recorded an interview with protester w Sharon. She pointed
to an AID truck convoy and said, this arrives into
the tunnels of Hamas, fighting us and holding our hostages.

There is no evidence that the majority of AID, including
food and medical supplies, is going to Hamas. Sharon and
her fellow protesters are demanding that AIDS stop entering Gaza,
where over thirty thousand people have now been killed, according
to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, with people at an
increasing risk of starvation. Another protester named Katya said they

should only get the minimum calories to survive if they
are starving to death, give the hostages back. Not a
single loaf of bread should go there till our hostages
are coming back. When questioned about the scale of human
suffering in Gaza, Katya seemed unmoved. She said, even if
there is a humanitarian crisis, and there is not, it

is my right and my duty to prioritize the Kiffeta
Bibas over any Gazan babies. Kiffitabebas is a one year
old who is being held hostage along with the baby's parents,
So that's what she's referring to, prioritizing Israeli babies over
Palestinian babies. Very little AID has made it into Palestine,

and perhaps nothing captures what the US and Israel actually are.
Then a picture that has been making the rounds on
social media recently. It's a photograph showing US AID drops
and Israeli airstrikes targeting civilian areas in northern Gaza, happening
at the same time. Falling on the rubble of destroyed buildings.
The AID and to the airstrikes dropping at the same

moment is dystopian and beyond fucked up. Since October seventh,
Israel has also shut off entry of food, water, and medicine,
as well as other supplies from entering Gaza, only allowing
a trickle of AID trucks through two crossings in the south.
Israel has blamed the starvation that Palestinians are enduring in
Gaza on UN agencies, saying that they fail to distribute

supplies piling up at Gaza crossings. The UNRWA, which is
the largest UN agency in Gaza, says Israel restricts goods
and imposes cumbersome inspections that slow entry of aid. Also,
distribution within Gaza has been crippled. UN officials say. They
say that convoys regularly are turned back by Israeli forces

and that the military often refuses safe passage amid fighting,
and that the aid does not get to the people
that need it the most, often being grabbed from trucks
by hungry Palestinians en route to the drop off points.
Recent air drops of AI by the US and other
countries provide far lower amounts of aid than truck deliveries,
which have become increasingly more rare, and they're also sometimes dangerous.

The UNRWA says that Israeli authorities haven't allowed it to
deliver supplies to the north of Gaza since January twenty third.
The World Food Organization, which had paused deliveries because of
safety concerns, said the military forced its first convoy to
the north in two weeks to turn back on Tuesday.
Jarine from the Future is here just for this quick update.

Yesterday Wednesday, Israeli forces hit a food distribution center and
aid's center in Rapha. The UNRWA said that one of
their staff members were killed and twenty two others were injured,
and it said up to sixty people were believed to
have been working there when it was hit. Those killed
were said to be a fifteen year old boy and
four men who were between twenty seven and fifty years old.

Rafa resident Sami Abu Salim said it's a UNRWA center
expected to be secure. Some came to work to distribute
aid to the people in need of food during the
holy month of Ramadan. Suddenly they were struck by two missiles.
The UNRWA chief Philippe Lazarini said in a statement that

it was one of the very few UNWA distribution centers
that was still operating in Gaza after these five months
of genocide. He said, this attack comes as food supplies
are running out, Hunger is widespread and in some areas
turning into famine. Every day. We share the coordinates of
all of our facilities across the Gaza Strip with parties

to the conflict. The Israeli Army received the coordinates, including
this facility yesterday. Since October, the un r WA says
at least one hundred and sixty five of its thirteen
thousand employees in Gaza have been killed and that more
than one hundred and fifty of its facilities have been
hit by Israeli forces. Here are the latest casualty figures

as of March thirteenth, at twelve forty pm in Gaza,
there are at least thirty one thousand, two hundred and
seventy two people who have been killed. Of those, there
are twelve thousand and three hundred children who have been killed,
as well as eight thousand, four hundred women who have
been killed. There are more than seventy three thousand and
twenty four people who have been injured, including eight thousand

and six hundred and sixty three children who have been
injured and six thousand, three hundred and twenty seven women
who have been injured. There are more than eight thousand
Palestinians who are missing in Gaza. The latest figures from
the Palestinian Ministry of Health for the occupied West Bank
is as follows. At least four hundred and thirty two
people have been killed, including more than one hundred and

fifteen children. There are more than four thousand, six hundred
and fifty Palestinians who have been injured in the West Bank.
In Israel, officials have revised the death toll from October
seventh from one thousand, four hundred and five to one
one thousand, one hundred and thirty nine. As far as
the injured go, in Israel, there are at least eight thousand,

seven hundred and thirty people who have been injured, according
to the latest data from the UN's Office for the
Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the World Health Organization, as well
as the Palestinian government. As of February twenty five, Israeli
attacks have damaged more than half of Gaza's homes, three
hundred and sixty thousand residential units have been destroyed or damaged.

There have been three hundred and ninety two educational facilities
that have been destroyed, including all universities. Twelve out of
the thirty five hospitals are partially functioning. One hundred and
thirty two ground water wells have been damaged or destroyed.
Two hundred and sixty seven places of worship have also
been destroyed. I really want to emphasize how damaging starvation

is and famine is. Starvation causes a long lasting damage
to the body. Large numbers of people in Gaza are
CCXI experiencing malnutrition. Studies of famines in other countries show
that famines can have long lasting impacts on people's health
and even that of their descendants. A new type of

video has been circulating online from the Raza Strip, footage
showing families baking quote unquote bread which is made from
bird seed, eating weeds, and giving newborn babies dat to
stuck on instead of milk. The Accountability Program director at
Defense for Children International Palestine said it is unthinkable that

in twenty twenty four, in a world that produces more
than enough food for all people. That Palestinian children are
starving to death. The starvation of children is a hallmark
of jedocide and a deliberate political choice by Israel, backed
by the Biden administration. It is complete madness that Israeli
authorities continue to prohibit and restrict food and other life

saving supplies to a starving population while the international community stands.
Palestinians in Gaza started to experience chronic hunger within weeks
of October seventh. At this point in time, Israeli strikes
have killed more than thirty thousand Palestinians, and this is
according to Gaza's Ministry of Health. The death tolls that

come out of the Palestinian Ministry of Health. They account
for Palestinians who die at hospitals or whose families report
their deaths to the ministry. Due to the telecommunications blackout,
the collapse of the medical system, Israeli ground invasion and
continued Israeli aerial bombardment, many Palestinians are not able to
reach hospitals and so this number is likely far far

greater than it actually is. And as I mentioned, Israeli
authorities have repeatedly blocked and severely restricted any humanitarian aid
from entering Gaza. On Tuesday, Israeli forces attacked Palestinians who
were waiting for aid trucks at the Kuwait roundabout south
of Gaza City and they killed seven people. Keep in mind,

this is after what has become known as the Flower Massacre.
On February twenty ninth, the Israeli Occupation Forces aka the
IOF killed at least one hundred and eighteen Palestinians who
were attempting to get aid from a convoy in Gaza City.
In this Flower massacre. Along with the one hundred and
eighteen Palestinians who were shot and killed, at least seven

hundred and fifty additional Palestinians were injured. They were just
trying to get food from the aid trucks to feed
their family. The United States recently delivered two air drops
of aid alongside the Jordanian military into northern Gaza. The
air drops contained a total of seventy four thousand, eight
hundred meals, and this was widely criticized as a public

relations move because the Biden administration is still clearly complicit
in Israel's genocide of Palestinians. International criminal law prohibits serious atrocities,
including core crimes of genocide, the crime of aggression, crimes
against humanity, and war crimes, and provides for individual crime
responsibility for perpetrators. The crime of genocide constitutes the deliberate

killing of a large number of people from a particular
nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that
nation or group in whole or in part. Genocide can
result from killing or by creating conditions of life that
are so unbearable. Intentionally using starvation of civilians as a
method of warfare is an underlying act of genocide and

it amounts to a war crime. I've said this before
on this podcast. I'll say it again, but at this
point international law means nothing. I mean, it hasn't been
anything for a long time. Nothing happens with Israel continues
to break international law. So though that phrase is a
little empty to me when they are in violation of
international law, but here we are, and it should be

noted that starvation of civilians also contributes and is an
active genocide. I've talked about why this is genocide in
other episodes, but it's clear act of genocide. What Israel
is doing to Palestinians and many scholars agree with that. Anyway,
let's continue. As weeks of blockades on food and other

aid have turned into months, starvation has reached historic proportions.
One recent report by the Global Nutrition Cluster, which is
a United Nations Children's Fund, a UNISEF led partnership of
humanitarian organizations, It found that in December of twenty twenty three,
in January of twenty twenty four, nine and ten children

under the age of two and more than nine and
ten pregnant and breastfeeding women surveyed had consumed two or
fewer food groups in the previous day. This situation is
considered severe food poverty. Nearly two thirds of households were
eating just once a day, if at all. In the

northern Gaza Strip, one in six babies and toddlers were
acutely malnourished. Aid organizations say that these numbers today are
likely to be far, far worse, and that the rapid
onset and complexity of Gaza's food crisis is unprecedented. Ted
Chaiban is the Deputy Executive Director for Humanitarian Action and

Supply Operations at UNICEF. He said in a recent statement
the Gaza Strip is poised to witness and explosion in
preventable child deaths. If the conflict does not end now,
children's nutrition will continue to plummet, leading to preventable deaths
or health issues which will affect the children of Gaza

for the rest of their lives and have potential intergenerational consequences.
There are nearly two point two million people living in
the Gaza Strip, nearly half of whom are children. Nearly
one hundred and sixty million other people worldwide are facing hunger,
including millions of people in Somalia, Afghanistan and Sudan. The

short term health consequences of food scarcity have been studied intensively.
In children, an especially vulnerable group. Severe acute malnutrition can
lead to muscle wasting, stunted growth, and medical complications including sepsis, meningitis, diarrhea,
and severe anemia. Worldwide, nearly half of all deaths of

children less than five years of age are linked to malnutrition.
A growing body of research is finding that even if
these children return to normal nutrition levels, a period of
acute malnutrition can lead to long lasting damage later in life,
and it may impact future generations. This is one of
many examples of why Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people

isn't just about death and the lives they've destroyed and
the land that they've taken. Israel's genocide is also about
robbing Palestinians of any livable future, affecting generations of Palestinians
to come, and they've done this since nineteen forty eight.
That's why it's no accident when children are targeted by
the IOF, when they're starving or when they're shot. They

are murdered as a way to prevent Palestinians from having
a future or having any hope. We see how the
IOF shoots children with the intention to kill. There are many,
many examples of this, but here's a recent example. Two
children were killed in November in the West Bank. Adam
Samer Elrul, eight years old, was shot in the head.

Bazdez uleemn Abu Edwafa, fifteen years old, was shot in
the chest. These children were both murdered and shot with
the intention to kill. The Israeli military and border police
forces have been killing Palestinian children with virtually no recourse
for accountability for decades. Back in August of twenty twenty three,

well before October seventh of twenty twenty three, Bill van Esfeld,
who was the Associate Children's Rights director at Human Rights Watch,
said Israeli forces are gunning down Palestinian children living under
occupation with increasing frequency. Unless Israel's allies, particularly the United States,

pressure israel to change course, more Palestinian children will be killed.
And that is exactly what has been happening. Many, many
more Palestinian children have been killed, all preventable. Human Rights
Watch researchers and documenting four killings that happened interviewed in
person seven witnesses, nine family members and other residents, lawyers, doctors,

staff and field workers at Palestinian and Israeli rights groups,
as well as reviews CCTV footage and videos that were
posted on social media, as well as statements by Israeli
security agencies, medical records, and news reports. In all cases
that they researched, Israeli forces shot the children's upper bodies without,
according to witnesses, issuing warnings or using common less lethal

measures like tear gas, concussion grenades, or rubber coated bullets.
I also want to draw attention to how this genocide
is also a mass disabling event that will harm an
entire generation and make them reliant on infrastructure that does
not physically exist. More than ten children a day lose
a limb in Gaza, and this is from the source.

To save the children. At least seventeen thousand children, which
is one percent of Gaza's overall displaced population of one
point seven million, have now been orphaned in the Gaza
strip and the number of children who have been killed
in Gaza. This number is now reaching thirteen thousand children.
The number of children reported killed in just four months

in Gaza is higher than the number of children killed
in four years of war around the world combined. Let's
take an ad break and we'll be right back, and

we are back. In the twenty four hours between Sunday,
March tenth and Monday, March eleventh, during which the vast
majority of Americans were busy watching the stupid fucking oscars,
seven massacres were committed by Israeli occupation forces against families
in Laza, killing sixty seven Palestinians and injuring one hundred

and six others. This happened as people were distracted by
watching this dumb display of nothing. Palestinians are continuing to
be murdered. And as for where things currently stand right now,
there are more than one point seven million civilians who
are trapped in the Dephah, which is Gaza's last place

of refuge. It's right on the south, on the southern border.
And this is after Israel kept telling Palestinians to go
south because of these quote unquote safe zones that were
clearly not safe at all. A massacre is happening in
the right now, and the world is silent, and to
make matters worse, not that they can get any worse.
Israeli Prime Ministers Benjamin n Yahoo says that he intends

to press ahead with the invasion of the city of Raphach.
Joe Biden useless warned that the offensive would be a
quote red line. But as we know, a slap on
the wrist for Israel means absolutely nothing, and they continue
to act with impunity, without any repercussions. When asked on
Sunday whether Israeli forces would move into Raa, Nan Yahu replied,

we'll go there. We're not going to leave them. You know,
I have a red line, and you know what the
red line is that October seven does not happen again.
It never happens again. He also dismissed the idea of
a ceasefire for Ramadan, saying that he would like to
see another hostage release because without a release, there's not
going to be a pause in the fighting. And he

also doubled down on his rejection of the possibility of
a Palestinian state. He says, the positions that as bows
are supported by the overwhelming majority of Israelis who say
to you, after October seventh, we don't want to see
a Palestinian state. The Israeli people also support my position
that says that we should resoundingly reject the attempt to

ram down our throats of Palestinian state. That is something
they agree on. The evening of Sunday, March tenth was
also the first day of the holy Muslim month of Ramadan.
Tarik Ahmad, who is the UK Minister of the State
responsible for relations to the Middle East, to North Africa
and the UN, on Monday, he urged Israel to quote

allow unhindered access to Jerusalem's holy sites during Ramadan. What
has Israel done since then, you may ask, well, Israel
has put up a barbed wire fence around the Uxamosque,
something it hasn't done since nineteen sixty seven. Israel erected
barbed wire on a fence around the Lions Gate area,

adjacent to the Uzamosk complex and occupied Eastererusalem. The Jerusalem
Governor's office itself said in a statement on Monday, this
is a dangerous precedent that has never occurred since nineteen
sixty seven. The Lions Gate, also known as Bab al Asabat,
is located within Jerusalem's Old City and is one of

the main gates leading to the Uxamosque. Israel clearly aims
to prevent Palestinians from entering Uximosque during the holy month
of Ramadan. Israeli forces have also imposed a strict siege
on the Eluxamosque for the past five months, preventing entry
into it. On Sunday night, Israeli forces prevented hundreds of

Palestinians from entering the mosque to perform the Tearawekh, a
special night of prayers during the holy month of Ramadan.
They also beat a Palestinian man near Bab al Zehara,
one of the gates leading to the mosque, before detaining
him soldiers also reportedly detained an Eluximosque guard from the
Old City of Jerusalem. Continuing along with the news from

just this week, on Monday, Israeli forces arrested six Palestinian
boys from the town of Sailla, northeast of occupied Jerusalem.
Video footage showed a group of Israeli soldiers tying the
Palestinians with a rope and dragging them in a humiliating
manner through the streets of Essoella. You see this in

this footage. They wrangle them and treat them like fucking cattle.
Worse than fucking cattle. They're treated worse than animals. And
the entire world is witnessing this. And what it's absolutely
sickening to me is that so many Americans would probably
care more about a dead dog than about a dead Palestinian.
And if that sentence made you uncomfortable, well it's supposed to.

Palestinians have not been treated or depicted as human for
so long that it's just become normal. But it is
not normal, and Palestinian life matters just as much as
any other. I want to also take a moment to

talk about what's happening in the West Bank. According to
Amnesty International, Israeli forces have unleashed a brutal wave of
violence against Palestinians and the occupied West Bank in the
last five months, carrying out unlawful killings, including by using
lethal force without necessity or disproportionately during protests and arrest raids,

as well as denying medical assistance to those injured. The
organization investigated four emblematic cases where Israeli forces used unlawful
lethal force, three incidents in October and one in November,
which resulted in the unlawful killing of twenty Palestinians, including
seven children. Researchers remotely interviewed twelve people, ten of them eyewitnesses,

including first responders and local residents. The organization's Crisis Evidence
Lab verified nineteen videos and four photos in examining these
four incidents. Amnesty International's research also found that Israeli forces
obstructed medical assistance to people with life threatening wounds, as
well as attacked those attempting to assist injured Palestinians, including paramedics.

Since October seventh, Israeli forces have stepped up raids, carrying
them out almost daily across the occupied West Bank and
what it describes as search and arrest operations. In one
recent incident that you may have seen online, Israeli forces
carried out arraid masquerading as medical staff. In twenty twenty three,

at least five hundred and seven Palestinians were killed in
the West Bank, including eighty one children, making it the
deadliest year for Palestinians since the United Nations Office for
the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs began recording casualties in two
thousand five. Erica Guavera Rosas, Amnesty International Director of Global Research,

Advocacy and Policy, said under the cover of the relentless
bombardment and atrocity crimes in Gaza, Israeli forces have unleashed
unlawful lethal force against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank,
carrying out unlawful killings and displaying a chilling disregard for
Palestinian lives. These unlawful killings are a blatant violation of

international human rights law and are committed with impunity in
the context of maintaining Israel's institutionalized regime of systematic oppression
and domination over Palestinians. These cases provide shocking evidence of
the deadly consequences of Israel's unlawful use of force against

Palestinians in the West Bank. Israeli authorities, including the Israeli
judicial system, have proven shamefully unwilling to ensure justice for
Palestinian victims. In this climate of near total impunity, an
international justice system worth its salt must step in. The
Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court must investigate these killings

and injuries as possible war crimes of wilful killing and
wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury. The situation in
Palestine and Israel is a litmus test for the legitimacy
and reputation of the Court. It cannot afford to fail it.
Since October seventh, across the West Bank, Israeli security forces

use of unlawful force during law enforcement operations has been unrelenting,
sowing fear and intimidation among entire communities. It has also
been used to disperse rallies and protests held in solidarity
with Gaza and demanding the release of Palestinian prisoners and detainees.
Between October seventh and December thirty one of twenty twenty three,

two hundred and ninety nine Palestinians were killed, marking a
fifty percent increase compared to the first nine months of
the year. At least sixty one to more Palestinians, including
thirteen children, have been killed so far in twenty twenty
four as of the end of January, according to the
numbers reported by OCHA. Israel has a well documented track

record of using excessive and often lethal force to stifle
descent and enforce its system of apartheid against Palestinians, leading
to a historic pattern of unlawful killings committed with impunity.
In one illustrative case investigated by Amnesty International, Israeli military
and border police forces use excessive force during a thirty

hour long raid on nous Chem's refugee camp on October nineteenth.
During the operation, Israeli forces killed thirteen Palestinians, including six children,
four of them under the age of sixteen, as well
as arrested fifteen people. Israeli military sources quoted in media
reports said that one Israeli border police officer was killed

and n and nine were injured after an improvised explosive
device was thrown at them by Palestinians. Residents told Amnesty
International that During the operation, Israeli soldiers stormed more than
forty residential homes, destroying personal belongings and drilling holes in
the walls for sniper outposts. Water and electricity to the

camp was cut off, and soldiers used bulldozers to destroy
public roads, electricity networks, and water infrastructure. Among those killed
during the October nineteenth raid was fifteen year old Taha Muhammad,
who was Raeli forces shot dead in front of his
house when he came out to check whether Israeli forces
had left the area. Taha was unarmed and posed no

threat to the soldiers at the time he was shot,
and this is based on eyewitness testimony and videos that
were reviewed by Amnesty International. A video filmed by one
of his sisters and verified by Amnesty's Crisis Evidence Lab
chose Taha walking on the street, peaking to ch for
the presence of soldiers, and then collapsing on the street
outside of his house after the sound of three gunshots.

Fatima Taha's sister told Amnesty International they did not give
him a chance. They did not give him a chance.
In an instant, my brother was eliminated. Three bullets were
fired without any mercy. The first bullet hit him in
the leg, the second in his stomach, the third in
his eye. There were no confrontations, there was no conflict.

An eyewitness told Amnesty International that when Toha's father, Ibrahim Mohammad,
then attempted to carry his injured son to safety, Israeli
forces shot him in the back. A verified video filmed
by one of Taha's sisters immediately after the shooting chose
Taha's father lying on the ground next to him before
limping away. My father raised his hands, showing the soldiers

that he had nothing in them. He just wanted to
take his son. They shot him with one bulle and
my father fell next to Taha. I want to mention
that one example, but many, many more have happened since
then and before then. Protests and solidarity with Palestinians and
Razza have been held frequently across the occupied West Bank
since October seventh. Some protesters have been seen throwing stones

in response to the presence or forceful intervention of the
Israeli forces. The iof's use of lethal force in response
to rock throwing is not new, even if the rock
throwing is done by children. In theory, lethal force and
law enforcement can only be used when there is an
eminent threat to life. Its use is not a proportionate

response to stone throwing. In another egregious case that happened
on October thirteenth in Tokudam, two eyewitnesses described to Amnesty
International how Israeli forces stationed at a military watch tower
both at one of the main entrances to the town,
as well as on the roof of a nearby home,
and then they opened fire on a crowd about leekast

eighty unarmed Palestinians who were peacefully demonstrating in solidarity with Gaza.
Two journalists who were at the scene separately told Amnesty
International that they saw Israeli forces firing two tear gas
canisters at the crowd and shortly afterwards opening live fire
at them without any warning shots. The two journalists saw
four people being shot and injured as they tried to

run away from the shooting.

Speaker 5 (02:12:24):
A few minutes.

Speaker 12 (02:12:25):
Later, Israeli forces then opened fire in the direction of
the journalists, even though they were both wearing vests clearly
marked as press. They hid behind a wall along with
three children and had to remain there for about two
hours as the operation continued. During this time, they also
witnessed a Palestinian man who was riding past them on

a bike being shot by an Israeli soldier. One of
the journalists also saw another demonstrator being shot in the head.
She described how the victim was suddenly shot and fell
to the ground. The obstruction of medical assistants by Israeli
forces during operations like this across Palestine is unfortunately a
routine practice an Amnesty International has documented this for years,

saying it is a part of israel system of apartheid.
Under international law, Israeli forces have an obligation to ensure
anyone injured by their forces is able to access medical treatment.
Amnesty International investigated five occasions where the Israeli forces hindered
or prevented those who were seriously injured in demonstrations and

raids from receiving critical medical assistance. They also shot at
Palestinians trying to help, including medics tending to the wounded.
During the raid I mentioned earlier on Nouschem's on October nineteenth,
three eyewitnesses, including a paramedic on the scene, said two
ambulances were stopped at the entrance of the camp and

prevented from reaching the injured. The witnesses said the residents
were forced to transport the wounded to a hospital in
private cars. Since October seventh, according to the UN, more
than four hundred Palestinians have been killed, one hundred and
seven of those being children in the West Bank. I
also want to mention the settler attacks on Palestinians, not

just by the IOF, because these settler attacks have also
become routine. Settlers have burned cars and houses, blockaded roads,
damaged electricity networks, seas farmland, severed irrigation lines, attacked people
in their fields and olive groves, and killed people, all
without repercussion. The UN has recorded five hundred and seventy

three attacks by settlers in the West Bank since October seventh,
with Israeli forces the IOF accompanying them half of the time.
At least nine people have been killed by settlers and
three hundred and eighty two have been killed by the IOF.
According to these numbers by the UN, human rights groups
in Israel and the West Bank allege along pattern of

violence that has been enabled by the IOF. The army, however,
of course, denies this. Human rights groups in Israel and
the West Bank allege a long pattern of violence by
settlers that is enabled by the occupation forces. The Army
of course denies this. As I mentioned earlier, the IOF
has a long history of using unnecessary lethal force, and

we're seeing that increasingly happen in the West Bank. I
want to end this episode with a quote from the
Israeli group be se them. They told the BBC. Since
the beginning of the war in the Gaza Strip, Israel
has continued to implement a lethal open fire policy in
the West Bank. Of the almost four hundred Palestinians killed

by Israeli forces since October seventh, many did not pose
a threat at the level that would justify the use
of lethal force. With extremely rare exceptions that usually involve
low ranking soldiers, no one is brought to justice for
the killing of Palestinians. This reflects Israel's profound disregard for

the lives and bodies of Palestinians.

Speaker 4 (02:16:08):
And that is.

Speaker 12 (02:16:09):
Our episode for today. As usual, Please please keep talking
about Palestine, Please keep raising awareness about this ongoing genocide
that's happening in both Gaza and the West Bank. And yeah, just.

Speaker 15 (02:16:25):
They'll stop talking about it. Pre Palestine.

Speaker 5 (02:16:42):
Hello, and welcome to It Can Happen Here podcast about
things falling apart and people putting them back together. I
am back after us for a lengthy court battle. Have
been allowed to return to the podcast, which I'm very
grateful for. And I'm joined today by John and Haval,
two friends of mine who volunteer out here in a
come a lot, a lot more than I do. And
we're going to explain some developments sort have happened, give

you an update on the situation here and let you
know how you could help soon. Welcome to the show,
both of you.

Speaker 4 (02:17:10):
Hello, thank you, good to be back.

Speaker 3 (02:17:12):
Yeah, welcome back.

Speaker 5 (02:17:13):
If you'd like to just introduce yourselves, like your name,
like whatever role you play out here, pronouns, and any
affiliation with any organization you feel is relevant.

Speaker 7 (02:17:24):
So my name is John. I'm someone that lives in
the area. This situation just kind of showed up in
my backyard. I was kind of forced into it rather
than volunteered into it, and I've been dealing with it
NonStop since the beginning. Yeah, I'm one of the main
sets of booths on the ground.

Speaker 16 (02:17:44):
Have all I used, they them pronouns, and I organized
with direct Action Drumline and Zene Distro doing a lot
of mutual aid, which is how I got involved in
all this, and also with Alo Gelato helping out on
the ground since the beginning with John, pretty much just
a little after John started.

Speaker 5 (02:18:02):
So yeah, so that's what nearly six months, so if
you're not counting me, yeah, yeah, wow yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:18:10):
So yeah, it started in May and then it stopped
during the summertime. It picked up again in September, and
we've been dealing with it NonStop.

Speaker 4 (02:18:18):

Speaker 5 (02:18:18):
People have heard briefly from John's father Sam in our
May episodes about title forty two, which we did. Yeah,
it seems like forever ago. Also, it doesn't seem like
very long ago. It's just one big, weird collapsing of time.
So last time we spoke, last time I spoke with Haval,
we had this situation where we had three distinct concrete

camps right adjacent to gaps in the wall, which volunteers
were servicing with food, water, warm blankets, were building shelters,
and we've heard a lot about those camps. Does one
of you guys want to explain how things have changed
since then, and really particular in the last six weeks.

Speaker 7 (02:19:01):
So yeah, it's changed quite radically. Actually, So between the
months of September and December, we were servicing these three
camps kind of more or less in our immediate area.
It was pretty straightforward. Our routine would consist of stopping
to each camp two times a day and feeding people,
providing them with all of the different things that the

US government was not and I kind of wish things
were simpler like they were back then. Yeah, So at
the end of the month of December, Secretary Blincoln made
a visit to Mexico, and I suspect that he pressured
the Mexican government to police our border for US. One

of the immediate changes that we saw as a result
of that was the foundation of two Mexican National Guard
camps at two of the gaps that feed into those
camps in our area, and that has basically stopped any
people coming through those areas. This has not made any

less people come into the country. Actually, the numbers have
been fairly consistent. It's just that people have been forced
to go in through other areas. So there have been
many many new oads that have popped up west of US.
We have to drive quite a bit further into towards
San Diego to go and service those areas, the main

one being Sliders, which we're seeing about two hundred people
come in sometimes in a night. It's not a good scene.
Whereas those three ones that we were originally servicing had
dumpsters and porta potties at the very least.

Speaker 4 (02:20:41):
They still do. They still.

Speaker 5 (02:20:44):
There exactly, Yeah, moving at the speed of government.

Speaker 7 (02:20:47):
The new ones don't have that, and people are having
to spend Well, how long were the people there most
during that crazy, crazy time, just like a few days ago.
I think they were up They were there for up
to like nineteen hours.

Speaker 5 (02:21:01):
Yeah, going on a day right now. Yeah, because we
first so to backtrack to people, like we heard from
a member of the community that there have been people
seen held there right at Sliders, And then we went
out there and we kept finding like warm fires, like
where people have clearly been there and built fires. We
could see where people are scavenged to brush, and a.

Speaker 4 (02:21:24):
Lot of documents ripped up around there. Yeah, the mittill.

Speaker 5 (02:21:27):
Signs, yeah, yeah, all these signs, and so we were
able to use that to suppose that was a place
where people were and then I guess was it. Eventually
someone stayed the night there and that was what allowed us,
or we bumped into people there. Someone bumped into people there.

Speaker 7 (02:21:40):
Well, we have an acquaintance that's been very helpful towards
the cause that lives just close by to there, and
he's kind of one of the one that sounded the alarm.

Speaker 5 (02:21:50):
And from there, it's like you said, it's a lot
more difficult, right, Like it's probably a thirty minute drive.
It's a steep off road, so like when it rains,
it's hard to get to. So that makes it more
difficult for us to provide stuff for people there. And like,
I guess people should realize that we didn't find out
about this because Border Patrol called us and said, like, hey,
there are people here without food, water, don't do that.

But yeah, that's not a thing that they do.

Speaker 16 (02:22:13):
We actually did one. Another volunteer, Brendan and I were
driving out and we stopped on the road. I don't
think you were with us, John, but we started talking
to one of the agents because there was two or
a group of people from I think Egypt. That was
the day everyone did the math exodus from one seven seven.
So we stopped and we're talking to one of the agents,
and he did slip that there was another camp. He

didn't name it, didn't say where it was, he just
said it was that way. And that was around the
same time that Morgan had mentioned it to us. So
it's you know, we kind of pulled it out of
this agent because we were talking very nonchalantly with him
and he was being generally nice.

Speaker 5 (02:22:48):
But yeah, they don't tell us about this stuff. Yeah,
and we have to find him myself. And what I
think that brings up is that there are potentially more,
right we think, no, for a fact, we know that
there are more. And like I think it's obviously people
and people think of California and they think of LA
and they think of San Diego and they think of
the beach and like pleasant weather. But can you explain,

like it's been really cold out here and pretty miserable
right with the wet weather we've been having.

Speaker 7 (02:23:14):
This is a pretty unknown part of southern California. You know,
we're a mountainous region just just east of San Diego,
within San Diego County. It's uh, I mean it's not
it's not crazy high. It's you know, it's about on
an average of three thousand or four thousand feet above
sea level. But yeah, it gets very windy over here,
gets very unpleasant. It often drops down to freezing.

Speaker 5 (02:23:36):
Yeah, and that's if you're out there all night and
you have any shelter and any anyway to get warm,
and you're potentially wet from crossing a river or crossing
a stream that often pops up in the desert. Can
be a really miserable situation. So, like, it's important that
these people receive help. And right now it's just through
word of mouth and the local community that we're able
to find them right and give them that help.

Speaker 4 (02:23:57):

Speaker 5 (02:23:57):
Yeah, So going forward, like we've seen like this movement
of migration west, what does that mean for the ability
of volunteers to provide services to migrants and what does
it mean for the safety Like you said that the
push factors haven't changed, right, So people are still coming here.

They still have things to get away from that lead
them to come here, but they're not coming the same
way where we could so easily help them in these
three concrete sites. So like what does that mean.

Speaker 7 (02:24:28):
Well, it's takes a lot more time out of our
day just to drive there. For one, the main one
sliders is up a very shitty road. Yeah.

Speaker 16 (02:24:39):
So I think they call it sliders because it's so
muddy and slidy over there when you're.

Speaker 5 (02:24:43):
Trying to be Yeah, I put someone's head into the
roof of my truck driving that's so long ago.

Speaker 7 (02:24:48):
Yeah, And you know, we're not the only ones that
are displeased with this. It's more it makes the life
for the Border patrol more difficult, makes life for the
emergency medical services more difficult, and of course it makes
life or the migrants more miserable. And the owner of
the property and the owners of the property in which
they're hosting these uh you know, detaining these migrants.

Speaker 5 (02:25:08):
Yeah, we I think if every single one has been
on private property so far, right, and I think we
spoke to most of the property owners at this point,
and it just seems to come out of the blue
at them.

Speaker 4 (02:25:18):
It's a very.

Speaker 7 (02:25:18):
Strange permission has never sought.

Speaker 5 (02:25:21):
Yeah, and I think one of them is suing the
Border Patrol for it. But take months. But obviously it
does have an impact on a landscape as well. People
understand to be a coal so they're cutting down whatever
they can to burn to make shelter, to make their
experience a little bit less miserable.

Speaker 7 (02:25:37):
So that's the Yeah, that's that's kind of a bargaining
tool that we try and use when trying to convince
the property owners to allow us to build shelters over there.
It's just to try and convince them that it'll be
good for them to have migrants not be in a
position to be forced to have to cut down the
vegetation on their land and trash their land, and uh,

you know, by allowing us to build shelters on their
property and give firewood to the to the migrants that
are being held on their property, it's better for them
in the long run.

Speaker 8 (02:26:09):

Speaker 16 (02:26:09):
And the first time we went out there, they had
created these shelters by just ripping brush and creating these
like semi circles that were maybe about a.

Speaker 7 (02:26:16):
Foot or some of them are very impressive.

Speaker 4 (02:26:18):

Speaker 16 (02:26:18):
Yeah, we had two three feet high and it was nice,
you know, and enclosed, so they had some sort of shelter.
But yeah, they had to rip all that from the
vegetation around the area, which just ruined the ecosystem there,
I'm sure.

Speaker 5 (02:26:30):
Yeah. And it must tear up your hands as well,
like those of slowny bushes and stuffy Yeah, it's not
desirable for anyone talking of things aren't desirable. We unforced
you have to take an advertising break, so we will
do that. Hit some stuff that you don't need, all right,

we're bank. Those are some products and services. Now we're
going to talk about the way John being very local
to hocumber right, how it is like organizing in a
rural community, and the way that obviously you have people
of very disparate political leanings in the area, and like
how you've managed to like phrase what we're doing and

to organize in such a way that the very least
people aren't like actively pissed off at you.

Speaker 7 (02:27:22):
Yeah. So, first of all, I'm a Quaker, come from
a Quaker family, and first and foremost I am doing
this for religious reasons, and I like to try and
remind people of that. So when people try and come
at me with anti immigrants sentiment, I just try and
remind them that you know, this is this is basically
what you're supposed to do according to the Bible, and

you know, to hate on any of these people is
very Unchristian. And when I do so, it's very hard
for them to come at me with any of that stuff.
But still yes, for the most part, the community over
here have not been very helpful towards They have not
been very enthused with all these migrants coming in, and
you know, they've been very regrettably misinformed about it all.

They're still looking at various crazy sources for their news,
like YouTube channels and stuff like that, and it's kind
of kind of hard to believe. It's like, you guys
live in the area. You can just drive straight out there.
You can talk to me a person that you guys know,
Yet you still choose to look up all these various
whack jobs on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (02:28:29):

Speaker 5 (02:28:30):
Yeah, we've had something of a problem with the YouTube people. Right,
there's a whole info a whole ecosystem of right wing
YouTubers that I think probably most folks don't know about,
even if you take an interest in other like right
wing conspiracy stuff, as a whole ecosystem of right wing
border YouTubers who have been I.

Speaker 16 (02:28:46):
Mean, describe what you've seen, right, We've had like a
new right wing fascist out every day. It seems there's
Oreo Express, Anthony Aguero has been out here.

Speaker 7 (02:28:57):
JLR investigator JLR, Roger Ogden here the other day. Classic
it's kind of calmed down though in the last couple
of days. But there was a period in late February
where it seemed like they were coming out every single day.

Speaker 5 (02:29:11):
Yeah, just a different guy in a different lifted jeep.

Speaker 4 (02:29:13):
Yeah, exactly just after that whole border what was it that.

Speaker 5 (02:29:18):
Take back our Border?

Speaker 16 (02:29:19):
Yeah, I got them all rouled up to come out.

Speaker 7 (02:29:22):
Actually, what really set them off to be aware of
all of this is when Fox did their big piece
out here and they were out here for multiple days. Yeah,
that's what kind of like turned on the tap.

Speaker 5 (02:29:31):
Yeah, and that's very common anyway you go on the border,
right Like Fox has a border reporter, Bill Malugan. People
will be familiar with Bill Malugan from publishing a story
in twenty twenty which suggested the police officer had a
tampon used tampon put in his Starbucks coffee, which was
demonstrably false and didn't really very much look like a tampon.

You can google more about that if that's interesting to you.
But like someone who preps should have lost a genalistic
credibility at that point. It's now doing border reporting for
and this is like when I speak to people all
along the border right here, Arizona, Texas. Yeah, the stuff
that Fox puts out very strongly correlates with anti migrant sentiment,
both both locally and with like these these folks coming

in and streaming and they're always asking for donations, right,
Like it's not a then they're they're not like advert
funded or like publicly funded like that, they're funded by
donations for what.

Speaker 16 (02:30:24):
Yeah, well, I forget the channel there. Aguero is on
that he's constantly asking for the nations and like, oh,
thank you, you just dropped ten dollars, so thank you
for the five spot.

Speaker 3 (02:30:32):
Other of like they're sitting.

Speaker 4 (02:30:34):
In his car.

Speaker 7 (02:30:35):
That's that's what they're grifters, That's that's what they're out
there for. Every It seems like a third of their
broadcast time is spent asking for donations, right yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:30:44):
Yeah, it's like a like a charity stream, except it's
the opposite of charity, I guess exactly, So pay me
to do hateful things streams. Yeah, And I think like
that as we get as we look between now and November,
I think it's really important that like the border will
be a topic that people who never come to the
border will argue about constantly between now and November, right,

Fox News will have reporting on it, NBC will have
reporting on it, like and both of them will have
reporting that isn't anchored on what we see every single
day out here, which is whatever actual people from all
over the world who are having a very difficult time
right here and need a help, right and we're doing

what we can to help them. So I guess what,
Like people who are listening to this will in the
next I don't know how long it is to November,
what six months, seven eight months, they'll have conversations with
their family members, with their friends, with people in bars, whatever,
regarding the border. What do you think they should know about,

like what we're seeing and like what the because there's
this whole border invasion narrative, right, and then like this
is not an invasion. We were just out joking with
some people and helping them get the firewood prepped. Like
these people know threat.

Speaker 7 (02:32:03):
I think people often make the mistake of considering this
issue to be a political issue. It really is just
a humanitarian issue. Vast majority of the people that I've
talked to have very legitimate reasons for needing to come
into this country, whether they're from Ecuador, you know, you
know the situation over there recently there were gangsters that
took over a TV station, Or in Guatemala, where I

spoke to a man who told me that his children
with college degrees can make enough family money to feed
their families. Or even in Afghanistan where people have literally
had the Taliban threatened their families lives.

Speaker 4 (02:32:39):
The same with and the Iatola escaping.

Speaker 7 (02:32:42):
A Kurdish people in Turkey. I mean, the list goes on.
Or you know climate refugees like the Mauritanians that we
just spoke with earlier. Yes, they're they're coming and they
have really reasonable grounds for asylum over here.

Speaker 16 (02:32:58):
Yeah, and it wouldn't be such and then quote unquote
invasion if they were just allowed to walk through the
port of entry. This it's this process is so silly
because they crossed. They could just do this all at
the port of entry. They really could be the policies
just choose not to do this.

Speaker 7 (02:33:14):
Yeah, but that's the part that really doesn't make sense,
is like we're letting them in anyways, Why do we
need to make their lives so uncomfortable you.

Speaker 5 (02:33:22):
Know and dangerous?

Speaker 10 (02:33:23):

Speaker 4 (02:33:24):

Speaker 5 (02:33:24):
I mean, John, you and I were on a water
drop maybe two months ago, now, six weeks ago in
slightly west of here, right, Yeah, do you remember we
were driving down to where we're going to get off
and we met that family from Guinea. There was like,
do you want to just describe what you saw because
I think it was like, at least for me, that
was like I've seen it a lot, but it still

emotionally affected me.

Speaker 7 (02:33:46):
So that Yeah, there was a there was a Guinean
woman and her kid. I think he might have been
like what four or something three three? Yeah, and there
was also a Nigerian woman and you know, Nigerian speak
English and Guineans speak friend and they weren't really able
to communicate with one another, and yet they were still
traveling side by side because they they just teamed up

because they were in a desperate situation together. One of
them was was she and sandals.

Speaker 5 (02:34:16):
One of them didn't have shoes at all.

Speaker 7 (02:34:17):
Didn't have shoes at all. Right, Yeah, yeah, it's six
weeks is a long time, you know what you're doing?

Speaker 5 (02:34:22):
Yeah, well you see horrible things every day.

Speaker 7 (02:34:24):
Yeah, it's been a very eventful time. Yeah, every day
feels like a news story. Yeah, And they just kind
of sat on the side of the road and were
out of breath, and they were just basically asking us
to help them.

Speaker 5 (02:34:40):
Yeah, I remember the little girl, but because we were
obviously concerned with the lady who didn't have shoes and
trying to help like bandage her feet and stuff. But
then I remember the little girls wasn't saying anything, and
I suddenly realized, Oh, this little girl is probably very cold.
She was like, you know, early, like mildly hypotheromic. Yeah,
so I had her wrapped up in a little mile
blanket with me to warm her up. And it's just,

I know it just for one reason or another, that
was a moment where I was like, why on earth
are we doing this to a three year old? Like
what possible reason could there be? Yeah, this three year
old girl to have hypothermia here in like the richest
country in the world.

Speaker 7 (02:35:15):
Who could possibly agree that this is a good thing?

Speaker 5 (02:35:18):
Yes, and yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:35:19):
Or another experience I had in the beginning of February
where there was this Colombian man who was in tears
who approached me and told me that his daughter was
very very ill, and he dragged me over to a
porta potty and she was there bundled up with like
nine blankets or something, not really responding to my questions.
He was trying to contact nine to one one, but

the responder on a nine to one one or the
dispatcher didn't speak Spanish, so I had to communicate with
them and navigate the whole situation. Turns out she did
have hypothermia. Yeah, but the ambulance would not take him
along with the mother and the child to the hospital.
So again it's another case of family separation. Who knows

what might have happened. They would have gotten processed separately.
He could have ended up in Louisiana and she could
have ended up in Riverside or somewhere.

Speaker 5 (02:36:10):
Yeah, And at that point, once again, it's not the
government or your taxes that were pay for those people
to be reunified. Right, that's work that's done by NGOs
in modern tree organizations exactly. Yeah, despite the massive amount
of money we spend on And we were just talking
the other day about how they the architectural marvel of
sections of the border wall right where they've poured concrete

at like a forty five plus degree angle and spent
millions of dollars for every yard of that, and we
don't have enough money to give this three year old
girl a blanket or to get that family back together.

Speaker 7 (02:36:43):
It's pathetic, it's it's yeah, it's mind boggling.

Speaker 4 (02:36:46):
Yeah, even today with that dude from Brazil.

Speaker 16 (02:36:49):
He came up to me when we first got here
there was starving, wanted food, water, and he.

Speaker 4 (02:36:53):
Was like, I'm sick, I have a fever.

Speaker 16 (02:36:54):
So I hooked him up with some cold medicine that
we had in our medkit, and then later when we
went back to do the second round of feeding, he
got more food and he was like, thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (02:37:02):
We're starving.

Speaker 16 (02:37:03):
We were told to when we were dropped off to
wait in the mountains at six pm to six am,
so they were just hadn't really I don't know if
they were on the American side yet or how that worked.
Didn't really describe it, but had to wait in the
mountains before crossing, and so people are getting sick out there.
We ran into that dude with the dog bite on
at one seven seven. He was just so we we

always go check this one camp because there hasn't been
out since Squadi and Snal have put their camp on
the other side, there hadn't been a whole lot of
people crossing in this area, but we go check it periodically.
In one morning, yeah, we saw this man hobbling towards
us as we're driving down the road with a stick,
and we're like, why is he walking like this? Pulled
over and he was bitten by a dog. He said
he went to take a drink of water and some
dogs attacked him, two dogs, I think.

Speaker 5 (02:37:47):
Yeah, he'd described it to the wolf, right wolf. Yeah.

Speaker 16 (02:37:50):
Yeah, So we called the MS and they picked them
up and took them to the hospitals.

Speaker 5 (02:37:54):
Right, big, you hadn't been there. It's a long way
to walk with a dog bite your leg.

Speaker 4 (02:37:58):
Yeah, And who knows, Bordovich might not even have ems
them out. They might have just tried to process them
with the dog bite. Yeah, could have gotten infected or infectoris. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:38:08):
But just to go back on the mutual aid question
that you had earlier, it hasn't all been negative. It's
actually been a really great experience in which I've met
really great people from all kinds of walks of life
who have just joined together because they see a problem
and know that they're the only they're the only ones

that can make a difference. And it is a sure
easy way to be really important and make a difference
in other people's lives. You don't really need to have
much more than a good heart and a willingness to work.

Speaker 5 (02:38:41):
Yeah, Like, I think we should talk about that more
because not that some of us had some prior life experience,
right working with refugees or migration, But I think most
of us just were people who were like, get, this
isn't right, and I am able to help, and so
I'm going to help. So can you talk about like
how people can help? And then, like you said, I
think I've actually got a lot out of this, and

I feel more affirmed in my belief that we can
look out after each other without the need to control
each other, and like we don't necessarily need people with
guns and badges to create a society that cares for
people who need taken care of. And so perhaps you
could describe like how people can help, and then what
it is that you've got out of this that keeps
you wanting to do this.

Speaker 7 (02:39:22):
Well. First of all, Yeah, we don't have a clear
structure of authoritative structure over here. We take ideas as
a collective. Different people have contributed different things. There's a
woman that really nailed down the PB and J making system,
and we've all just been following her lead. Some people

came up with the idea of having a cell phone
charging station that was you, and it's just the list
goes on and if you wanted to help, you could
just come by to the border, come to one of
these sites and just start distributing food or teaming up
with us somehow, or by donating to the GoFundMe.

Speaker 5 (02:40:05):
Yeah, what's the good fund me?

Speaker 7 (02:40:06):
John, So let's go fundme that was set up by
my dad. I don't actually know what it's like.

Speaker 4 (02:40:12):
How Cumba Migrant Aid you.

Speaker 5 (02:40:14):
To go fund me? How Cumba Migrant Aid. It comes up.

Speaker 16 (02:40:16):
Samuel Schultz, I think isy Samuel Schultz.

Speaker 5 (02:40:19):
So you'll know because it has like fifty thousand dollars
on it and like maybe seven woods as a description.
That's like GOOGLEMBA because not much else is going down here,
I guess. But yeah, people can help that way, and
we've had people come who listened. We had two people
this morning right who had heard about it on the
podcast and it come and helped. Yeah, and it made
a really really great difference.

Speaker 16 (02:40:39):
Yeah, they camped out at the Sliders and really held
it down, which is really important. I mean for some
of us, we you know, like John and I, we
kind of do like a morning shift where we get
up really early and make sure to do everything that
we need to do, prepping sandwiches, checking on all the camps.
But a lot of people come in in the middle
of the night. Sliders had people come in what at
midnight or one am?

Speaker 7 (02:41:00):
Oh yeah, all throughout. A group came at midnight, a
group came at like one am, and then there were
also more that came at four am.

Speaker 9 (02:41:07):

Speaker 16 (02:41:07):
So like having someone on site camping, you know, making
sure that people's needs are met and that if any
emergencies take place, that they're taken care of, and it's
just that smiling face when they get here.

Speaker 4 (02:41:18):
It makes a huge difference.

Speaker 16 (02:41:20):
Like that dude from Brazil, like earlier he was saying
to me, he was like thank you so much, Like
this is like this is humanity right here, Like I'm
a human and I'm.

Speaker 4 (02:41:28):
Like, yes, we will treat you like humans here.

Speaker 7 (02:41:30):
Like at the end of the day, you know, these
people coming through Central America and Mexico, they go through
so much, you know, extortion, people ripping them off, just
feeling unwelcome throughout that whole voyage. Yeah, just having a
group of people welcome them into the country and treat
them with dignity is worth more than any bottle of

water sandwich that we can give them. And you know,
that's that's the main thing that we're doing. I would say, I.

Speaker 5 (02:42:07):
Want to emphasize that people can help in so many
ways that you can send us stuff, you can send
us money, or you can just show up. If you
just have a weekend, that's totally fine, or a day
that's totally fine, or if you just want to come
and make sandwiches, that's totally fine. Like it, We're a
very diverse group of people, and some people have had
more time than others. But yeah, everyone I think is valued,

and like you said, I think like we're the way
that we organize without anyone, like we organized horizontally, has
allowed us to be so much better. Like do you
remember the day there was a day when we ran
out of plates and we were like down in Willow
and it was just it was like chaos. And then
someone who just arrived that day was like, oh, what
if we put the beans in a sandwich? Bag and

give people. That was actually Peter, who's back now after
going on m Stringer for a while. But yeah, like
if we had been like no, I mean we've been
doing this for long and then those people wouldn't have
got fed, right, But because we were willing to listen,
then the people got fed, and like we were all

happier because the people got fed, right, Like it worked
better that way. So like as things change, because it
like it. Border patrol have said explicitly that they're trying
to push people west, right, what do you think, like,
what do we need going forward? What do you see
like the situation being and like it's it would be
good to explain the context of like the changing seasons

here as well.

Speaker 7 (02:43:33):
Yes, so I think what we're going to see more
of is people that are crossing in unorthodox areas, more
people that are hopping the fence, more people that are
cutting holes in the walls, just popping up all over
the place. So yeah, it would be great to have
eyes along the border, people that are willing to travel
up and down along the border to find out where

these people are coming through, because for the most part,
we don't know a lot of times where these people
are coming through. There are a couple of new oads
open air detention sites that are relatively close to us
that we can't find even.

Speaker 5 (02:44:08):
Right, Yeah, like maybe if we had a super fancy
drone we could find them, or just boots on the ground.

Speaker 4 (02:44:13):
A nice off road vehicle.

Speaker 5 (02:44:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, then these are all things that cost
money that we don't have. But like we've all put
lots of miles on our trucks and lots of miles
on our boots trying to help out.

Speaker 4 (02:44:25):
My exhaust is falling off all these bumps.

Speaker 5 (02:44:28):
Yeah, my transfer case to coop beating. But like, yeah,
if we had more people, some of us could focus
on feeding people here because there was how many people
were there when we just left, now one hundred and
twenty something like that.

Speaker 7 (02:44:39):
Yeah, oh no, actually probably more if you count the
new group. I think you know what a conservative estimate
would have been maybe one hundred and forty.

Speaker 5 (02:44:47):
Yeah, so that's we'd made one hundred and forty sandwich
used to feed them today, and we'd chopped firewood and
taken that out and we'd be given all that out right.
That was after the same thing at breakfast time. That
doesn't leave much time to go meander along the border
and look for another site. So if we have more people,
we could do that and that would be really valuable.

Speaker 16 (02:45:06):
Also if you have connection to firewood, Yeah, if you're
a person who can bring us a lot of firewood.

Speaker 4 (02:45:12):
We have one homie right now and he's breaking his
back for us. So yeah, that's a definite big need
out here. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:45:21):
Is there other stuff like that that people who maybe
aren't here but have connections to or they could they
could send that's particularly needed.

Speaker 7 (02:45:28):
A nice off road vehicle, got one lying around? Firewood
is definitely a big thing. That's that's a huge need. Yeah,
it's getting really cold up here, and especially in like
sliders too. I think it's higher in elevation, so.

Speaker 5 (02:45:42):
So exposed to there's nothing between you and the wind.

Speaker 4 (02:45:44):

Speaker 5 (02:45:45):
Yeah, it's very cold out there.

Speaker 4 (02:45:47):

Speaker 7 (02:45:47):
But and and just other things that are that are
easier for us to get, but we just constantly need
such as breads, blankets, bread.

Speaker 5 (02:45:55):
Yeah, yeah, tent all these things. Right, The wind and
the sun destroys everything that we've stokepiled after a while,
and we have to keep reinventing the wheel. And then
sometimes borter patrol destroys our stuff as well, or sometimes
some chubs come and destroy our stuff, which which.

Speaker 4 (02:46:12):
Oh, the chads destroying our stuff.

Speaker 5 (02:46:14):
Yeah, we should talk about the destruction of the shelters
before we finish, I guess, just to end on a
sad note. What was happy not because we built them
again and the fine. So there were some shelters I
think mostly they were ones that had been built while
they were ones that had been built volunteers and John,
you saw what happened to the shelters, right.

Speaker 7 (02:46:32):
Yeah, So we built some shelters at one of the sites,
at one of the main sites. You know, it was
very simple just by having of plywood as the frame
holding it up and then kneeling down some tarps on
it with batons.

Speaker 4 (02:46:51):
It was.

Speaker 7 (02:46:51):
It was a nice thing. It stood up to the
heavy winds that we have here very well.

Speaker 5 (02:46:55):
It's incomparably better to not having a shelter out there.

Speaker 16 (02:46:59):
Oh yeah, it's a completely different They're instantly use once
people cross, and it's awesome to see like adults that
are alone will get out and force family shelters like yeah,
you get it first for sure.

Speaker 7 (02:47:11):
Yeah, and yeah, we built those. It was working out
good then one day, the Border Patrol showed up or
a company that was subcontracted by them and demolished them
all using skiploaders and bulldozers and such. We showed up
the following day, we rebuilt all the shelters, and we're
really happy about it.

Speaker 8 (02:47:30):
You know.

Speaker 7 (02:47:30):
It was kind of a big fuck you to them.
You can tear down our stuff, but we'll just come
back and build more.

Speaker 4 (02:47:35):
Yeah, but then.

Speaker 7 (02:47:38):
What was it like a three four days later or
the next day maybe i'm not the next day, two
days it was close. Yeah, some guys just showed up
and they tore it all up with hammers.

Speaker 4 (02:47:50):
They finishing a tiny little finishing.

Speaker 9 (02:47:54):

Speaker 5 (02:47:54):
Luckily they didn't really come equipped like maybe with the
with the tools, they didn't really know what they Yeah,
I think it's fair to say that. But still it's
it's annoying when you've put the time into building it, right,
and Border Patrol didn't destroy our contractors didn't destroy the shelters.
At first, we were like, oh, maybe they're not using this,
but there are one hundred and forty people there right now,

like in the shelters that got rebuilt for a third time.
So like, I guess even we do appreciate people donating,
and we understand that people's resources are scarce, and like
the economy is bad and the rent is too damn high,
et cetera. But like every time we build up enough stuff,
we have to like we're always running uphill because like

stuff just gets destroyed either by the by the weather
or by the border patrol or by volunteer Border patrol judge,
Like we could, I guess, desperately need your help. And
like at some point the news cycle will move on
from the border, and that doesn't mean that we will
be able to move on from having people to help here, right,
because like John said, there were people and people always

deserve to be treated with dignity. Is there anything else
that you guys think that people should know about the situation?

Speaker 4 (02:49:03):
Here we wrap up, it's kind of chill.

Speaker 3 (02:49:12):
It is really nice, like being here.

Speaker 5 (02:49:14):
I come here because it makes me happy, and my
friends are here.

Speaker 16 (02:49:16):
Yeah, And like the slider's location is located in a
really awesome like you can see down just past the
border wall there's like a nice little train track that
used to go from US into Mexico, I guess, And
just beyond that there's like sheep on a farm yea
in the distance like rolling hills, the clouds come through,
and like say, it's a really beautiful place to be

and to hang out. And a lot of the locals
that don't hate what we're doing are very nice. The
people at the hotel are very supportive.

Speaker 7 (02:49:45):
And yeah, we're a great group, really good people. It's
always really fun to do anything like this. People are
generally enamored by our project and want to be involved
and come back a second time. I mean we're kind
of like cowboys. I mean we're doing this all on
our own, driving up and down, looking at the sites,
looking around, and that whole responsibility is on our shoulders.

Speaker 5 (02:50:07):
Yeah, it feels good to take responsibility.

Speaker 7 (02:50:09):
So definitely we're doing this.

Speaker 4 (02:50:11):
It's like no one else will, so yeah, we'll just
do it.

Speaker 5 (02:50:13):
Like that's fine. It's very like it reminds me of
the punk scene growing up, but like it's a big
important thing. Get Like you said, every national news network
has been down here, every drifting streamer has been down here.
But the end of the day, it's a few dozen
random people who are actually the ones making sure that
people don't die here. For all the government attention, for

all the millions of dollars spend it.

Speaker 7 (02:50:36):
It's just us, Yeah, working on a fraction of the butt.
I mean it costs them more to fly a helicopter
for a few hours than we ever.

Speaker 5 (02:50:44):
Spent in our entire go fund b Yeah, and yeah,
like we get it done. We're very efficient, I guess
in that sense. But yeah, we would love more people.
People have come because I listen to podcasts, and that also,
like just for me personally means the world to me.
Like most of the time we just talk into a
microphone and then you can't really see who you're talking
to unless unless you go on like social media, and

that's not always the best reflection of humanity. So like
it really means the world to me, and that someone
like listens to this when they're driving to work or
you know, going on a job or whatever they're doing,
and it's like, no, I will I will go and
I will help, because I think that is how we
solve so many of our problems. Like there is a
massive problem with people not being able to afford rent
living on the street in this country, and we solve

it in the same way by just showing up for
each other.

Speaker 16 (02:51:30):
And there's also different ways to get plugged in, Like
if the desert's not your thing, it doesn't. I mean,
this is like where the process starts as far as
like the spectrum of the whole border crisis or not crisis,
but the whole border humanitarian situation we have going on here.

Speaker 4 (02:51:45):
So this is what we're doing out here. But there's
also airport runs.

Speaker 16 (02:51:48):
A lot of them get ditched in the airports, so
I think we all we got SD and maybe M
dev and center kind of hold down they do airport
runs Border Patrol just I guess at night they don't
drop them off like after ten or something.

Speaker 4 (02:52:01):
They don't drop them off at the IRIS station. They'll
just drop them straight off at the airport.

Speaker 16 (02:52:05):
So they need help being fed. A lot of them
don't have plane tickets. They need to kind of some
you know, people need blankets because they have to sleep there.
So well, I mean we all we got is great
for that you can plug in with them, and I
think Alochlado and who else is it M Deef as well,
that's doing the IRIS street releases. So when the border
patrol just releases them on the street, like a lot

of people just getting a cab and go they have
the resources, they can do that. They're already planned. But
some people don't have any money, or they got robbed
on the way here, so they have nothing. They need
a lot of help. They need to figure out where
to go. They need a place to stay. So there's
the street releases, there's the airport, there's I think that's
kind of.

Speaker 7 (02:52:42):
Or by just helping with shelters and organizations in whatever
city you happen to be living in. You know, the
majority of the migro well, not the majority, but a
very typical answer migrants give me when I ask them
where in the United States they're going to? Is New
York City or Chicago or any of.

Speaker 5 (02:53:00):
These major Yeah, Lincoln, Nebraska the other day.

Speaker 4 (02:53:05):
Yeah, it's gonna be Idaho. Have fun.

Speaker 7 (02:53:10):
It was beautiful.

Speaker 9 (02:53:11):

Speaker 5 (02:53:12):
There was a guy have al and I met from
a minority ethnic group in Russia. We met in September.
I remember one of those first really cold nights and
I was talking to this person and they were in
Pennsylvania and I checked in with him a few weeks
ago and they're like, happily living in Pennsylvania. Can't understand
the word anyone else is saying. It's nice to see,
and yeah, you can help those people live in whatever

community you're in, And like if you're further along the border,
there's paha Samaritans. There's no massive worthdays. There's humane borders
to songs Samaritans as well. Right, yeah, all along the border,
you know, there are the there are lots of good
people in Texas, right it's a sidewalk school and Blintamoros,
the people at the National Butterfly Center who are very
nice people who we've heard from before, Like all along

the border and like all around this country, there were
there are things you can do to help, and I
want to reinforce it. It's not like this penurious thing
we do that's miserable and we all get together and
cry every night. Like we do have a nice time,
even though we have seen some really stressful things. Like
we all look after one another and hold space when
people do need help or extra time to process something.

But it's a very supportive community and we support each
other through lots of other things, like aside from this,
and I think a lot of people in general in
the twenty first century America struggle with isolation. And that's
a thing that capitalism does to people, right, it isolates
us from each other and so hopefully, like I think

this is a solution for me. This has been a
really positive thing, but like generally my sense of hope.

Speaker 16 (02:54:43):
Yeah, and like what we're doing this kind of does
it's disaster humanitarian relief effort. It's kind of with the
way the climate is going in the world in climate,
climate are going.

Speaker 5 (02:54:55):
To get less common.

Speaker 16 (02:54:56):
Yeah, this will just be getting more common. And like
this kind of like preparing and building community and like
this disaster scenario is gonna yeah, definitely be more in commons.

Speaker 4 (02:55:06):
And it's not that easy to do.

Speaker 7 (02:55:08):
I mean, it's not that hard to do now, you know,
you just got to have the intention and then you
just got to get together and do it. That's all.
That's all you really need to do.

Speaker 5 (02:55:16):
Don't think that it's like this. If someone had said
to us, what plus or minus fifty thousand people probably
have come through. I have no idea on the numbers,
but somewhere around there.

Speaker 7 (02:55:25):
Yeah, probably more than that.

Speaker 5 (02:55:26):
Yeah, if we like I remember in May when we
cleaned up the first o ads, when we were like
when I first met your mum and dad, John, we
were cleaning up the first o ads and we were like, wow,
that was a horrible thing that happened. That was really fucked.
If someone had said, right, well, between now and next March,
fifty thousand people will come through here and it's mostly
going to be you guys who are here picking up trash,

and that's that's all.

Speaker 4 (02:55:48):
It's going to be.

Speaker 5 (02:55:48):
Like it's on you. It would have been it would
have seemed overwhelming, right, But I don't think people should
feel afraid to confront these big problems because like between
the group of people who we've said would hear, we've
been able to confront this problem and make it survivable
and treat people with dignity and bring some dignity and
humanity into a situation where there wasn't any, right.

Speaker 4 (02:56:10):
Yeah, And there's a role for everybody. No matter what
you do.

Speaker 16 (02:56:12):
You can find your niche of what you know, you
makes you feel good, or something that you're good at,
you know. Yeah, it's finding the little fascists that destroyed
our things online and doing all that online footwork, or
it's building shelters, or it's making PB and J's or.

Speaker 5 (02:56:29):
Our friends made out website and made a really good
website website, yeah, or even Yeah, just.

Speaker 16 (02:56:35):
Being someone that speaks multiple languages is a huge need
out here, especially I mean Spanish is pretty common, but
the harder languages, like I mean Mandarin.

Speaker 5 (02:56:46):
Yeah, yeah, if you speak Mandarin and then you reach
out to us and when we can call you, then
that would be huge, right. They could make real in
a medical emergency that could be a life or death thing.
So there are a ton of ways to help and
re encourage people to kind of go up to they can.
Where can people follow along with YouTube? Do you have
like social media or anything that you want to plug?

Speaker 10 (02:57:05):
I don't.

Speaker 7 (02:57:05):
I'm gonna keep mine frivving the world beautiful.

Speaker 4 (02:57:11):

Speaker 16 (02:57:11):
One of the how I got involved in this is
through members of a drum line that I am part of,
so we show up for protests, have been since twenty
twenty direct Action drum Line.

Speaker 4 (02:57:21):
On Instagram.

Speaker 16 (02:57:22):
We post a lot of different stuff from organizing for
Palestine to you know, we were doing a lot of
Black Lives Matter stuff early in twenty twenty and now
it's you know, kind of cross mixed with border aids
since I've been out here, So we occasionally will make
posts so you can follow along there.

Speaker 4 (02:57:39):
Alo Gelato is a.

Speaker 16 (02:57:41):
Good one to follow on social media inco Paul Wellness
on Instagram Borderlands Relief Collective.

Speaker 4 (02:57:49):
I'm sure a lot of the people listening already follow
a lot of these people. But yeah, there's a network
through all of that.

Speaker 16 (02:57:55):
And so once you start following one or the other,
we all tag each other and we share each other's
stuff so you can get involved and figure out what's
going on.

Speaker 5 (02:58:01):
Yeah, and the is it bored? What's the website for?
That's a great resource? Order ay dot get help dot io.
I think if you give it a Google somewhere or
somewhere around that you'll find it. It is a good website.
And like if you are facing similar issues in your
community or wherever you are, whatever it is. Like, we've
definitely made a lot of mistakes and we've learned a lot,
and so we've tried to document the things that we've
learned so that you guys don't have to reinvent the

wheels somewhere else. Right, Like, you know, you can be
an efficient PB and jamaker just like us.

Speaker 4 (02:58:30):
Right, learn Suirly's technique.

Speaker 5 (02:58:34):
All right, thank you so much, guys, I really appreciate
your time that question.

Speaker 7 (02:58:37):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:58:37):
Jeers Hey We'll be back Monday with more episodes every
week from now until the heat death of the Universe.

Speaker 3 (02:58:47):
It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

Speaker 12 (02:58:49):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated
monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.

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