It Could Happen Here Weekly 208

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let
you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode
of the week that just happened is here in one
convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to
listen to in a long stretch if you want. If
you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,
there's going to be nothing new here for you, but
you can make your own decisions.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Welcome to it could happen here a podcast. We're in
the wake of mom Dommy's victory. We are revising the
old twenty sixteen slogan, eat your pheasants, drink your wine.
Your days are numbered, bourgeois swine. I am your host,
Mio Wong, with Rius Garrison Davis looking unhappy.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
Well, this is actually the new mandatory greeting in New
York has to read yes yesterday, yeah, instead of saying
hi on the subway or just trying to avoid each other.
We have to all recite this now. It's pretty crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
FDR used to call the US the forty eight States
the Soviet of Seattle, and I have I haven't quite
figured out what the version.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
Of that for New York is yet but no, no,
the New York City nationalism really is a thing. Yeah yeah,
even if the country falls, I think I think New
York will remain as a remain as a city state beacon.

Speaker 5 (01:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
See.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Unfortunately, I'm having to temper my sort of Chicago in
like this is a two two Chinese city like for this,
and I'm also having to temper my like reflexive, uh
not even reflexive. Bye bye bye, incredibly well thought out
in detailed thoughts of electoralism and so so so today today,

(01:43):
if I have to cover electoralism positively, we're doing this
in sports format. Oh we are, we are. We are
looking at what's been going on with the reaction to
mom Donnie's when we are fully we are fully doing
winners and losers. It's gonna be great. We're gonna have
a good time.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
I mean, I'm still traumatized from the World Series, so
I don't really appreciate the sports framing. I actually the
World's World Series Game seven. I was watching it at
a bar and then I had to go across town
to a different bar because I knew Zoron was doing
the little gay bar hop on the same night as
the World Series finale, so I missed the last thirty minutes.

(02:25):
I had to leave during the ninth inning when the
Blue Jays were still ahead.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Oh no. And then and then in transport the Dodgers tie.
They did two extra innings and then one, and it
was devastating. And then I saw Bom Donnie dancing at
a gay club like ten minutes later. It was serious, gracious,
You're welcome, welcome to being a Seattle Mariners fan. This
is this is why, yes, all the time for us,

(02:52):
everything well.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
Aware, No, of course I I what I'm not cheering
for the Jay is usually usually I'm cheering for the Mariners.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
So I know again, the only way to survive this
is to become a truly transcendent, true Mariners fan, where
you are not in this for winning and losing. You
were in this for the fact that we had a
guy whose name was Big Dumper because his ass was
big as fuck and he had sixty home runs. And
that's what you're in this game for. Okay, Okay, we're

(03:20):
gonna turn this around. We're gonna turn this around. We're
gonna actually start with winners with I think the most
serious thing that we're going to do today not a
high bar. Yeah, not a high bar. But I think
in the words of the great John Boyce, this moment
belongs to her. And that's Lindsay Bolan, who was the
first woman to accuse Cuomo of sexual harassment, who is

(03:42):
one of the bravest women I've ever seen. And she's
having a great time. That's good. There's a bunch of
pictures of her going around that she's posting. She's so
happy it rocks. She's yeah, she's just she's just having
a great time.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
This is this is like a dual pronged moment, right.
One prong is just seeing Andrew Cuomo get completely humiliated
for the second time in a row. Yes, and then
the whole, the whole you know, like perspective hope of
what a Mom Donnie mayoral occupation could could meet. It's
like a whole separate thing, uh than just watching Cuomo

(04:19):
get absolutely decimated. Right if there was if there was
someone who was only half as good as Mom Donnie
who destroyed Cuomo, and we still it would still be
fun to laugh at Cuomo. The fact that it's Mam
Donnie is just a little bit of like an extra
extra icing on top.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
I guess yeah. And I want to read a quote
from her that she could this this this was from
before especially, I could tell since the actual win, she's
just been like partying and hasn't really been giving, like
I think she went onto bocracy now. But like she
she had this great line from this, this piece and
the Independent, uh that was titled we will beat these
monsters and this this was from this. This is from

(04:55):
the original primary win. I hope every woman who has
ever faced an abuser like Quota one knows she doesn't
have to be ashamed, she doesn't have to hide, because
we will beat these monsters. New Yorker said no more
to Andrew Cuomo, and that is just remarkable. And this
ship rocks, this rocks.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Fuck him, especially Cuomo, who ran his campaign. I'll be like,
it's dangerous to be a woman on the subway, and
we're like why because you're gonna be on it like
like his whole, his.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Whole, like law and order.

Speaker 4 (05:24):
New York is a dangerous, scary place to live because
there's predators out there. It was like a main part
of his campaign. Meanwhile, four years ago he resigned because
he was a predator.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah, eleven eleven women came forward like that's remarkable, astounding,
and you know this is hopefully this is this is
the beginning of many, many, many defeats that these fucking
people will have over the coming years.

Speaker 4 (05:52):
Hopefully the last defeat for Cuombo, but for others of
his ill walk Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, yeah, these there are there are many, many people
who hold a whole variety of offices and sometimes are
just like your boss or someone you work with or
someone Yeah, and fuck them, We're gonna beat them all.
This rocks. So that that's that's winner number one, Winter
number two. People with child's people with childs. Wow, people

(06:19):
with child Look, I agree, I got so little sleep
last night. I was I have no excuse. I was
up being extremely gay at like four in the morning.
I'm really tired.

Speaker 5 (06:33):
H Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
People people with children getting getting free childcare a thing
that is in fact really good.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
Free childcare would be would be pretty cool. And it's
one of the few things on the Momdani platform that,
like the governor herself, is pretty pretty set on how
helping to achieve.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
And you know there's Spike Lee who's having a great
time partying, is just just just just loving it. It's great,
it's great, that's good. Yeah. Renters also good. Yeah, people
people who live in rent stabilized apartments getting not the
rent increased, and also they're being more rent controlled housing
built good good things, good things. People who buy food.

(07:17):
When I say people who buy food, right, you would
think that's all people. Most of the people who we
are going to be talking about on this list, those
motherfuckers have not set foot in a grocery store in
a decade. There really, truly is a classified between people
who buy food and people who do not ever buy
their own food.

Speaker 6 (07:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
It's like around if you make around two hundred thousand
dollars a year based on the time that you spend
procuring your own groceries, people argue that it's more efficient
for you to order or have people bring food to
you and not do any of that work yourself.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, and you know, so we have that, we have.
You know, I think that there's there's a sort of
macro point you can make here about you know, the
ties between affordability and the sort of the sort of
politics affordability in the ways in which there are a
bunch of people who would affects and then there is
the top five percent of the us, who do fifty

(08:14):
percent of the country's consumer spending. Who this is not
going to affect because they do fifty percent of their
consumer spending on bullshit. And also I want to, I
want to I'm gonna, I'm gonna declare myself a winner
because I fucking hate Mody and Zorn called Mody a
war criminal and specifically talked about his mass killings of
Muslims and Gujarat, which is the first time I've ever
seen a major American politician talk about that and fuck him,

(08:37):
he's the butcher of Gujarat. Eat shit. Yeah, this is
this is this is This is a kind of short
winners section because you know, I could list like people
in New York City, like who aren't really rich, like
Harrison right, like you know, but this is mostly a
loser's episode. This is mostly a Oh my fucking god,

(09:00):
the right is doing a crash out and oh boy,
there are some great stuff. So I want to start
the losers with Laura Ingram. Who the chevron on her show? Who? Who? Who?
Laura Ingram?

Speaker 5 (09:17):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (09:18):
Fox News host evil She's still on Fox News.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Huh yeah yeah, her her Fox News thing that the
chevron on It was by winning the Democrats are actually losing.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
Which is the trust God God, I hope. So from
your mouth to God's ears, Laura, so.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Good, it's the most There's a whole genre of this.
If I wanted to, I literally could have just pulled
things that were like the Democrats are winning by actually
losing like that. There's like Ross Douthitt, who's like the
sort of make work higher, like she's one of the
old school makework higher in your Times calumnists. He's like

(10:01):
a very very weird Catholic who used to advocate Catholics
like taking the benedict option and going into the woods
and not interacting with society, which please rawsout it and
your ILK.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
I mean, that's not very Catholic.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Please do that. Yeah, if you want to go argue
theology with Ross down, go fucking happily, or like go
do this. Yeah, but like you know, douth of the
New York Times immediately is like Momgani's victory is lessgnificant
than you think, and it's like, ah, yes, we are
we are getting out. We are not owned, we are
not owned, et cetera, et cetera. Sololely turning into a corn.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
Cob humping the copium straight into my veins.

Speaker 5 (10:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Mm hmm. It's truly amazing stuff. I think it in
the just pure cope vein is Did you did you
see the Mike Cernovich post about this? No? No, Oh
my god. Okay, So I'm not gonna how do I
say this, I'm not gonna association us quote sweeting a
video that's just like it's like a five minute video

(10:57):
of like the Zetio whatever live stream of of the
after party, and it's just Cernavich is just going, this
is a rowdy, masculine environment. You can feel the energy
as the Heritage Foundation is putting members through a struggle
session and demanding a deidan. The left is winning true true,
And then like that is that is happening right now.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
We'll be doing a piece on the Heritage struggle sessions
probably later this week.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yeah. Yeah, And that's the that's the do we accept
the overt neo Nazi or not?

Speaker 5 (11:30):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Conflict, which they are very divided on, which is not
not a great sign. Gotta say, I gotta say, don't
don't love that. But in another just incredible like I'm
not mad thing. Surtavitch post that and then quote tweets
his own tweet and says, if you didn't know anything
about politics, you would say this is the sign I

(11:51):
want to be on Conservative inc. Is joyless. It's the
house of scolding nags. It offers young men nothing beyond
moralizing and hypocrite lecture.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
This is probably also following the fallout of the Fuentez
Tucker interview and the like sectarian right. Yep, yep, that's
that's not really in fighting necessarily, but like these these
debates on on Fuentez is placed within the Conservative Party,
and this argument against what I guess like right wing

(12:22):
cancel culture that you have people like vans like Matt
wallsh talk about how like we should not be you know,
canceling people like Tucker or you know, these young GOP staffers,
her white phremacists for saying things that are offensive because
we need to have a united front against the left
versus this whole other reaction from like Shapiro and you
have heritage just caught in the middle of this, and

(12:43):
there's like senators and Mike Johnson who or who are
trying to like keep this like legitimate, like anti Semitic,
but like also like anti Israel, but through anti Semitism,
like this anti Semitic is section of the right led
by fuentees like keep it quarantined, which is increasingly breaking quarantine.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
So they're looking.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
At how the right has devolved into this fighting and
then seeing the election of Zoran and being like, oh,
the grass is greener on that side, I guess, which
is really odd.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's so funny because it's just
like literally just all of the shit they've been saying
about the left forever, they're just suddenly like, oh my god,
they the some part some of the right is like
maybe maybe not literally the neo Nazi, And now they're like, oh,
it's actually it's actually the right that is, uh, the
house of scolding nags who offer young men nothing beyond

(13:36):
moralizing and a hypocritical lecture, which is it's just amazing.
It's I don't know, it's so funny. They're they're just
they're just losing it insofar as there is a kind
of important thing here. It's that like in a moment
where you know, the sort of ruling party is becoming
increasingly unpopular, they're also fracturing from the inside to the

(13:59):
extent where like their like worst nightmare just got elected
as the mayor of New York and instead of like rallying,
they're doing this shit. Very funny. There's been a few
governor reactions. I'm gonna pull from the Guardian here a
great Abbot tweeted, joined me in a moment of silence
for New York City thoughts and prayers.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
Abbot's been been losing it over the selection.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
It's so funny, it's very good. Rick Scott is the
center of a Florida to the Guardian, Florida has welcomed
those fleeing communists and socialist regimes for decades, wrote Senator
Rick Scott of Florida. Tonight is no different. Florida will
welcome all freedom loving New Yorkers.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
It's funny because that's very different from Abbot's promise of
trying to teariff people who flee from New York to Texas.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Abbot's like, oh shit, hold on, maybe maybe I can
cash in on all of this money. We're gonna we're
we're gonna get to whether people are actually fleeing New York.
In a later segment, spoiler alert note yet, but come
there is still time if we want people to flee

(15:11):
New York. We're just gonna have to do it ourselves.
Speaking of doing it ourselves, this podcast, we do it,
but also the products and services support the show do it.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
We cannot, in fact do it ourselves. You know, we
have to at this point have the assistance of the
capitalist advertising industry.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
So enjoy, enjoy that we are back. So let's turn
to Elon Musk. Who is I mean, I guess for

(15:53):
Elon Musk he is kind of having a normal one.
He is doing a bunch of his normal posts about
how like Western civilization is doomed unless the core weakness
is suicidal empathy.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
Is recognized suicidal empathy.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
It's so bad. There's there's a very very funny segment
that I'm not gonna play just because like, I don't,
I don't, I do not believe in exposing our dear
listeners to having to listen to Elon must try to
talk because this clip, yeah, yeah, there's no him on
Joe Rogan, where Joe Rogan's like, okay, why did you
call him Donnie a swindler? And it's just a minute

(16:30):
straight of Elon Musk going uh, he has nothing.

Speaker 4 (16:35):
He can't even complete a full sentence he had at
one point says that, you know, swindlers will always say
what the audience wants to hear, and that's the only
thing he's he that's the only complete thought that he gives.
The rest of his sentence or attempts at making a
sentence is just saying the word like five times and

(16:56):
then saying that. Well, you know, Zorn is actually quite charismatic.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
His brain is so cooked, it's so good. It's and
I say this as someone who stammers a significant amount.
This is this is just there's nothing going on in
his brain.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
This is closer to head empty noe thoughts.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, that empty no thoughts derogatory, which derogatory.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
Comma bands always derogatory, always, always derogatory.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Oh god. So there's been this sort of mix of
like the world is falling with this also kind of
oh my god, he won. And also this is a
very attractive charismatic dude. It is kind of breaking these
people's brains that there's just like a hot guy who
beat the shit out of them. There's like there's like

(17:44):
definitely sort of like psychosexual politics going on here. You
can see it in a shit posting.

Speaker 4 (17:50):
No, absolutely would have a heyday I don't know would
have a heyday writing about the psychosexual aspect of the
anti Zoron Andy. Obviously, some of the pros are unbeatful
as well.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, this is a great things are
happening in politics. Even Trump has had to defend his
looks as being better than mister mum Dannie, which objectively
not true. Very funny saying is quote unquote much better looking.
It's so funny.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
But they also have this weird thing that some people
on the left are doing. This is largely a Twitter thing,
but this does seep out into real world conversations, which
I've I've heard is thirsting after Zorn's wife and comparing
and comparing Zorn's wife to like like Millennia or something,
and like in a whole bunch of really weird ways.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
Jesus Christ, that's really weird. Don't do that.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
Look how like beautiful and aristocratic Zoron's wife is versus
God versus uh former porn star Milania Trump. And you're like, country,
what are you doing?

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Guys? This is the doing misogyny. You're doing misogyny. It's bad.
Simply don't do that.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
But we do love the twenty seven year old zoomer
New York for a lady.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah, she fucking rocks. Good. Good for her, Good for her.
Check out her art. I want to I want to
turn a little bit to Speaker of the House Mike Johnson.
He said Democrats in New York have chosen a true
extremists and Marxist and the consequences will be felt across
our entire nation. He also said that Badabi's policies are
defunding the police, seizing private property, and massive tax increases,

(19:33):
which I fucking wish.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
I mean, that does all sound kind of cool, but
that is that is absolutely not what Zorn's current state
of politics are.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, and it's also funny because this is the same
reaction they've had to every single Democrat who's been elected
in the past twenty years. Totally. The right has so
much just sort of weird projection shit, and I feel
like they've been doing this whole like, oh my god,
you all call this fascists, and now we're all fascists.
And it's like, no, you called Barack Obama, who was

(20:05):
like the most neoliberal Democrat they've ever put in office,
maybe second only to Boke Clinton. Maybe like you called
him a communist, and now it's like, okay, this guy's
a democratic socialist, and you're just saying like, oh this time, now,
this time is communism. This is just like okay, really.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
Now the boy who cried will think that the right
does all the time. It depowers their own rhetorical tactics.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Yep, yep, yep.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
And you see this in a few ways. I think
you've seen this in part with like the trans mass
shooter thing. And certainly they've been doing this thing around
you communism or socialism for a while to the point
where you can have the mayor of New York proudly
call himself a socialist, a democratic socialist, and gets elected
with record numbers.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yep. So one of the things that he's going to
be dealing with, obviously, is is the financial class. We're
gonna get to some more weird reactions. But there's a
very fun NPR quote that I'm going to read. I'm
always gonna read this quote. I think it's the stages
of grief, said Karen Wilde, who runs the Partnership for
New York City, an influential business group that represents more

(21:11):
than three hundred large employers. It's very funny they're fully
in their like acceptance negotiation phase of this.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
Yeah, I mean, I think they might not be letting
on the degree to which they have been in this process.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
For a while.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
There was like a final push among like Bloomberg, who
probably met with Mamdannie like months ago, and they like
developed like a kind of like truce, which Bloomberg broke
in the week before the election when he suddenly funneled
millions of dollars into islamaphobic ads like nine to eleven ads.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
But there was a lot of.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
Meetings happening between Mamdani and people who would make up
his future administration and the business class, which have happened
since he won the primary in June. And this sort
of negotiating and bargaining has been going on for quite
a while. And I think the acceptance now is really
the final I mean, these steps aren't necessarily always always

(22:07):
like sequential, but I think we were rapidly approaching the
acceptance phase across the city and people are actually looking
at like realistically and what what the what the negotiating
side of enacting these things is going to look like,
including the financial people.

Speaker 3 (22:23):
Yeah, that that said, Ken Griffin not happy at all. No,
they're not happy. No, this is this is a business
Insider for the people of New York. I pray that
the policies Montdammy uses to govern and lead New York
are different than the talking points he used to win
the may own race. People in New York deserve better.
I do want to I did cut out the part
in the middle of There's the Business Insider where he

(22:45):
said this Wednesday at the American Business Forum in Miami.
In New York like to say this very funny. Hell yeah,
very funny in this sort of like crashout spectrum. So tho,
the people who are like having the absolute worst time
are a bunch of Israeli politicians who are very mad
about this shocking. Yeah, I'm just gonna quote the Washington

(23:07):
Post here. Israel's far right Minister of Security Ben Gavir
said Wednesday that Mamdami's win would be quote remembered eternally.
Is the moment when anti Semitism overcame common sense. Diaspora
Affairs Minister on each I cheekly, in an excoriating statement,
accused New York City of quote handing its keys over
to a Hamas supporter. And this is also a giant

(23:31):
loss for one Benjamin Nett and Yahou who Mamdami has
said he will arrest that's put in New York, which
rocks very funny. Will this actually happen? I don't know, hilarious.

Speaker 4 (23:44):
Yeah, I mean these things just don't work anymore, like
they Yeah, you, Like I watched an interview with Jonathan Greenblatt,
the head of the ADL like Good Morning America, like
like talking about this and how they're establishing an anti
Semitism monitor to track the Zorn administration. And even like
the hosts of Good Morning America were like, come on, man,

(24:05):
Like that's not he's not he's not an anti se
Like he's he's against he's against the genocide of Gaza.
Like he's not. He's not like a Jew hating anti semi. Yeah,
and like they were even getting tired of green BLAT's
little like shtick and how he was constantly like performing
to the camera to try to get people to like,

(24:27):
I don't report incidents that then they'll add into this
into this monitor program, so they'll try to blame them
Amdani administration for not protecting Jews or whatever.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
This was on Mourning Joe on ms NBC not good
Morning America, My apologies.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
This is also you know, if you want to talk
about another sort of category of losers, just like all
of the unhinged islamophobia. Oh yeah, like all the people
spreading that God annihilated. Yeah, just absolutely smash and like
and yeah, and you know it is worth saying. Yeah, like,
this was one of the most racist campaigns I have
ever seen, but that Andrew Cuomo sort of waged it

(25:06):
was oh yeah, just hideous, more racist than Trump versus
Kamala by far. Yeah, like exceptionally so, and done by
you Democrat establishment figures largely yep, man, just rancid and
they got their ass handed to them. And I think
that's good. There's a very very public level of exceptions

(25:28):
for soomophobia. You can just say the most homophobic shit
anyone's ever heard on TV and it's fine and no
one does anything. But also, like, people don't fucking like
that shit. It sucks, it's awful, and fuck these people.
And you know, I think this is sort of the
tide turning. Oh and speaking of the tide turning, Bill Ackmans,
as we've talked about on ED, bending the knee, saying

(25:52):
Congress they are on about dominy. Congrats on the wind.
Now you have a big responsibility if I could help
New York City, just let me know what I can do.
Very good. So to sort of close out this, like
the losers section, I want to turn there's a great
piece and defector about the people who've threatened to leave
New York City if Mom Donnie won and unfortunately reached

(26:14):
out for comment, none of them were actually leaving. It's
really sad because people don't want to leave the city.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
It's a good city, which is the whole point of
Zorn's campaign was about how much the city is cool
and rocks and Cueobo's campaign was but how much it's
bad and scary.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, And unfortunately, tragically this does mean that you are
going to have to have Dave Portney and this whole
this whole crew of Barshel dipshits still in the city.
So good luck. I hope you appropriate them. I hope
they hope they have a bad time. Now I want

(26:56):
I want to move into my last category, which is
the sort of bad category. We got a kind of
wild Obama quote quote the future looks a little bit brighter.
It's a reminder that when we come together around strong,
forward looking leaders who care about the issues that matter,
we can win. It's a it's a very silly quote.

(27:20):
The odds that Obama personally had at least one person
on that campaign staff beaten dream occupy are very high.
Like it's it's really truly this moment of like, brother,
you spent so much time trying to make sure this
wouldn't happen, and you have failed, and now you're in
the like, I'm gonna do the Obama thing. We're like,

(27:42):
I'm the friend of all the young leaders, and I'm
going to give them the worst advice You've ever heard
in your entire life. I don't know, still still still
have never gone over Obama personally intervening to make sure
the NBA players didn't go on strike during the uprising.
Oh god, what of the one of the worst like
post presidents moments I've ever seen. I want to close
on Jamie Diamond, the CEO of JP Morgan Chase, who

(28:06):
when I sked what mont Donnie said quote he's a
young man, will he get good at it? I haven't
said about Muntdonmmie making and implementing good policies. I see
a lot of people in big jobs, including big political jobs,
they grow into it. I've seen a lot of people
they kind of swell into the job, they get worse,
they you know, all of it becomes about them. I'm
hoping he's the good one and that will be important

(28:27):
for the future in New York, he said, true, true,
and real.

Speaker 5 (28:33):
No.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
I mean, like there is a lot of this slow capitulation,
which you're even seeing with private comments from Trump that
are being leaked into reporting through the New York Times,
where in private Trump has called it mister mom Donnie
a slick and good talker and a talented politician, and
last Wednesday said that he might quote help him a

(28:55):
little bit maybe unquote, and that he wants New York
to succeed, which is, you know, contrary to like previous
threats of like pulling back all funding if I'm Donnie
gets elected.

Speaker 7 (29:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
And I think part of part of this reaction is
both like how strong Zorn's victory is. We all like
know that Trump likes winners, but also the fact that
Zorn has like very quickly tried to establish dominance over
the president in some ways hm hmm, in a way
that like someone like Trump like kind of respects with
Mam Donnie positioning himself as like a legitimate, like adversarial

(29:26):
figure to Trump. Yeah, like right off the bat, And
there's a little bit of the Trumpian mind that actually
kind of appreciates that and thinks it's like cool and impressive.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
During the first Trump administration that there was a whole
running theory that if you could get Trump in a
room with Hugo Chavez, you can make him a socialist
in like an hour, because he really does just repeat
the last thing anyone in a room said to him.
So we're like, we're finally going to test the theory
of can we get a charismatic person in the room
with him and make him do stuff he would normally do?

Speaker 4 (29:59):
And probably not, but you know, I mean, and like
the biggest thing right now is like the difference in
immigration policy.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
But like Trump's from New York.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
Trump knows how much New York is a city built
by and run by immigrants, Like he knows that when
Stephen Miller is like orchestrating all of his messaging, it's
like the worst of the worst of the anti immigrant stuff.
But I think in terms of Zorn's opposition to Trump,
primarily being with immigration. I think Trump understands how immigration
like rests very importantly into the identity of New York

(30:28):
and in which with that's like the main oppositional force.
I think Trump similarly well, is gonna understand where Mom
Dannie is coming from.

Speaker 5 (30:35):
In a way.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah, And I think I think we are going to
see like a particularly like Stephen Miller, Oh yeah, conflict
as this goes on.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
Absolutely, because this is this is the perfect example of
stuff that Miller and people like Matt Walsh and like
the Great Replacement people have been talking about. And the
other huge batch of reactions that you're seeing from people
like Walsh is that this election only went this way
because of how many foreigners were allowed to vote in
New York.

Speaker 5 (31:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
If this election was done by true New Yorkers quote
unquote yep, then quota would have won. And looking there
results of this election, looking at how many immigrants voted,
people who have moved to New York in the past
ten years, past five years, Mam Donnie did very well
with with those groups.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
You have a lot of these like.

Speaker 4 (31:16):
Far right anti immigration people, yeah, pointing towards that as
being like, this is what we're trying to defend the
country against or else. All of our elections are going
to go like this unless we make sure that only
white Americans can vote.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
Yeah, and then and so there's there's that reaction, water
sign the other the the other reaction from roughly that
crowd is women cannot be allowed to vote.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
Yes, which they also they also believe that like yeah, yeah,
this analysis obviously has faults, but it's it's even falling
apart in terms of like the young male vote. Yeah, yeah,
they got hammered, which the Republicans have, you know, have
been been very very excited about about how much you know,
young men are voting for the Republican Party. Right, young
young men are all Republican, even if young women are

(32:02):
all the Democrats. And you see in specifically this election
where mom Donnie is up forty percent with young men,
and the divide among men is mostly through age, with
older men going for Cuobo and millennials and gen Z
men swinging very strongly towards Mamdani. You have all these
like Democrat thinking trying to figure out how do we

(32:23):
attract the young male vote, how do we do this?
And you have a guy show you what kind of
policies what kind of messaging works exceedingly Well, Yeah, which
just happens when people tried so hard to kill that strategy,
and it's was proven twice in a row, first with
the primary and even more so with the general.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
And yeah, that will frighten the GOP.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
It'll frighten them seeing that young men will vote for
a democratic socialist if they actually have these policies and
you have this type of like solid messaging, they're not condescending,
and they candidate embodies like a new generation of change.
It's very threatening to the GOP and to establishment Democrats.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah, and like, like I've see Steve Bannon's out here
being like, if he leaves in the midterms and leaves
in twenty twenty eight, I'm going to prison, which from.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
Your own here, So like, No, the biggest mistake the
Democrats made last time, well, there's many many big mistakes,
all right, Palestine being a huge one.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
But I think a huge mistake they made.

Speaker 4 (33:23):
It's not completely destroying Trump and his whole like cat's
ability to like exist in public life, like they he
Trump should have been immediately in prisoned for trying to
overthrow the government and basically set into a whole and
after that Supreme Court ruling on the presidential community, it
should have been taken out as like a national security threat.
Like Democrats cannot cannot play this like they go low,

(33:45):
we go high game anymore.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
If we're going to get out of this, and it's
probably not given the Democrats, you do this, but like
are Nuremberg is going to have to make the original
Nuremberg look like paper clip.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
Like, well, that's what the original Nuremburg was, the original Nuremberg.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Also see that we were are Neurmberg to Nurmberg harder?
I see, Yeah, I'm actually doing it.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
Yeah, I really like Jacob Geller's video on Nuremberg, and
it is it is a nice emotional play to fall
back on in times of of torment. But I don't
think we're gonna Nuremberg ourselves out of this one. And
unfortunately I don't have a very strong solid alternative at
the moment. But at the very least Trump should have

(34:29):
been treated much much harsher after after January sixth.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah, we can leave it as for now. Nuremberg to
Warren's an ascend into Nuremberg. Well, this has been a
gun happen here a rare, a rare, upbeat episode where
all of our enemies are having a very bad time.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
Yeah, they're also mad about uh Lena Kahan on the
transition team.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
Oh yeah, very funny.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
They're so very mad, very mad, And go to Transition
twenty twenty five to learn more about Sooron's Smaral Transition team.
A fantastic url, really really going for it Transition twenty
twenty five.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
Stealing treads Valor true real you go, girl. I give
Zora on the past.

Speaker 5 (35:20):
He can say it.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Zor invove Dubby estrogen.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
No, no, no, he's fine as he is.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
We're transit the comfort. He's actually a good looking man.
He doesn't need it.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
He's actually he's actually figured it out.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
I think. Anyway, we're ending here.

Speaker 5 (35:57):
Hello, if you want to welcome to it could happen here?
A punk asked, where I have just been attacked for
my identity as a British person by my colleague Garrison Davis.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
I gere it's going to happen again?

Speaker 5 (36:10):
Really?

Speaker 3 (36:10):
I never This podcast is not a safe space.

Speaker 5 (36:13):
Not for British people. Sadly, many many such places for us,
including Britain, which is a country which is not doing
so well right now, the Britain is still very safe.
I don't want to talk about Britain today. I do, incidentally,
I guess because I grew up in a country that
has virtually no fucking public land. I mean in the commons.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Yes, actually kind of topical, Yeah, it is.

Speaker 5 (36:38):
That is a question that actually and so earlier this
year in September, I was staying with which in people
who are indigenous to the Northern Alaskan, Interior Arctic and Subarctic,
and one of them was like, Hey, how did you
guys get so dislocated from your lands? One of my
friends who I was talking to, and it was a
really interesting question for me. Great because they have lived

(36:59):
on that same land for as long as human beings
have existed in the Americas, the twenty five thousand years
something like that. Like, the answer is the enclosure of
the commons, right, the answer is like proto capitalism is
what removed folks like me from the land and identifying
in a way that those people identify with the land.

(37:21):
But in the United States, we do have a little
bit or quite a lot actually of public land, right,
various different types of public land, various different land protections,
that anyone can go to where you don't have to
be in America or a citizen. Anyone can go to
public lands and enjoy them. Unfortunately, Utah Senator quote unquote

(37:44):
based Mike Lee is once again attempting to weaken protections
on wilderness, which will render some of the small parts
of the USA they have not been fundamentally damaged by
capitalism permanently and irrevocably changed. Are you familiar with Mike Lee. Yeah,
he's the senator from Utah, the Senator from Utah. Yeah,
and he's based as you have said, Yes, he's based, right,

(38:07):
that's this. He's a hashtag poster. He's a poster.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:10):
He operates a Twitter account which some might deem as
offensive and tweets about current current events in a very
provocative way. Yeah, usually in line with some kind of
partisan sentiments.

Speaker 5 (38:24):
Yeah, that's pretty fair.

Speaker 4 (38:26):
Specifically, following the assassination of Melissa Hortman and her husband,
made a series of of tweets that were I guess,
kind of insensitive, if not actually if not laying blame
at the governor of Minnesota in this kind of ironic
joking way where you have plausible deniability, but in general

(38:48):
handled that situation very grossly, and I think that that's
what most people might know his tweets for. But he's
very active, he's he's tweets about many many a thing.

Speaker 5 (38:58):
Yeah yeah, if he thinks that he post sit but yeah, yeah,
his most people will know him as a guy who
made the extremely poor taste posts following those murders Nightmare
on walls the street. Yeah, just nothing to be posting
U when some people have been murdered.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
I think in general, when people are murdered, I think
we as humans should.

Speaker 5 (39:21):
Should post the last Yeah. Yeah, right, if somebody has died, like,
just don't post you know it did? Maybe nice to
say this is terrible, so and your condolences or whatever,
but realistically their family aren't looking on on Twitter dot
com to see you who who's sending their condolences, but
they sure as funk we'll find out if you try
and make a funny about it. So to just don't
just resist urge to post another urge that Mike Lee

(39:45):
sadly have is.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
I don't like that at all?

Speaker 4 (39:48):
Yeah, you like we're talking about Mike Lee's urges.

Speaker 5 (39:54):
Okay, it's in the broadcastable space. Mike Lee has the
urge to sell off public land. He has tried twice
this year. We spoke about this a little bit on
ed right. We talked about it in the context of
the Big Beautiful Bill or the one Big Beautiful Bill Act.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Yeah, he did try that like half a year ago.

Speaker 5 (40:13):
Yes, he did. Well, Garrison, I regret to inform you
that Mike Lee is back somehow.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
Mike Lee has returned.

Speaker 5 (40:21):
Yeah, and this time he has got a new thing.
So last time, if you remember, he talked about selling
off the public land to make affordable housing. Sure, sure, yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Not going to look into this any further.

Speaker 5 (40:36):
And I'm gonna that was exactly what he was relying on.
That no one gave a shit about the millions of
acres that we all get access to, and they would
just trust him on.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
That one based Mike Lee and his abundance exactly.

Speaker 5 (40:51):
It's him and Ran shaking hands when it comes to
affordable housing, but something they care about very much, I'm sure,
something that Mike Lee has campaigned on for. He did
not stick Landing on that because people read the proposal
and they noticed that it was going to do nothing
for housing affordability whatsoever. If it did create any housing
at all. It was going to be like super rich

(41:12):
people's McMansions. You know, this was not going to do
anything to move the needlean and affordable housing in the US.
This time he has found a cause which receives even
less scrutiny. Can you guess what it is, Garrison.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
Ah, for why we need to sell the public lands? Yes,
I'm trying to not just look ahead on your script.

Speaker 5 (41:39):
Yeah, there is a document in front of you which,
as he asked, it, so close your eyes. But there's
like two or three things in the US where everyone
just seems to turn a blind eye.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
To, like, Oh, I mean this is it for like
is it for like developing land for like oil data centers?

Speaker 3 (41:57):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (41:57):
Well, that probably is what's happening. But he's he's smart
enough not to say that.

Speaker 4 (42:01):
Right, super gold magic carp as in the as in
the film Eddington. I mean I would guess the data centers,
but that that's that I could be wrong.

Speaker 5 (42:12):
It's border security. Oh great, of course, right, you could
have said anti terrorism and probably got there to you.
But no, it is it is securing US southern well
all aboarders, actually southern border, northern border, eastern and Western
maritime borders. Obviously they're they're looking to prevent any more

(42:33):
people coming in from Canada.

Speaker 8 (42:35):
Is not a border stick that that is correct, that
borders because literally, so you go to search something, pulled
up the map of the United States. I was like,
I don't think you maybe I'm misremembering, but Uta is
not a border state.

Speaker 5 (42:53):
Is absolutely not a border states.

Speaker 4 (42:55):
Actually not a border state. It is above Arizona, which.

Speaker 5 (42:57):
Is yeah, so that is perhaps what's going on here.
Mike Lee has found a way to sell off public
lands without selling off Utah public lands. Oh, in this case,
not really sell off, but destroy and degrade in a
way which is very clearly going to lead to commercial exploitation.
Right what Lee proposes, what Lee's bill has a bunch

(43:19):
of cosponsors. I believe the only border state senator co
sponsoring it is head crewis. Yeah, that makes sense, big
public lands, respector. But Lie's bill would allow the Department
of Homeland Security to quote inventory illegal roads and trails
on public land within one hundred miles of the border

(43:39):
and then convert them into navigable roads. That is the
part that makes no sense, right, Like when you look
at Lee's statements and I will read one of Lee's
statements here. So this is a statement on the Senate
Energy Committee web page where they talk about Energy Natural
Resources Committee. Is quote from Mike Lee explaining his bill quote,

(44:04):
Biden's open border chaos is destroying America's crown duels. I'm
going to pause here to note this. According to my watch,
we're at November seventh, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Well your watches, rog, Yeah, we.

Speaker 5 (44:21):
Are once again asking the most important question of.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Our time was president who is?

Speaker 3 (44:28):
He used the presidense?

Speaker 5 (44:30):
It didn't. It's not even like talking about twenty twenty
and pretending that Trumble was a president.

Speaker 4 (44:35):
He's doing it right now, that the art border policies
are destroying our nactual lands.

Speaker 5 (44:43):
Yeah, we were a year after the election. You've had
time to come to terms with this. You can't just
keep pointing at Joe Biden like but apparently I guess
you can.

Speaker 4 (44:53):
They're going to keep doing that for three more years
until there's a new guy.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (44:59):
Yeah, So let's go on with Chairman Lee, his chairman
of this Senate Energy Natural Resources Committee. Right, Families who
want to enjoy a safe hike or camp out are
instead finding trash piles, burned landscapes, and trails closed because
rangers are stuck cleaning up the fallout. Cartels are exploiting
the disorder, using these lands as cover for their operations.

(45:22):
This bill gives land managers and border agents tools to
restore order and protect these places for the people they
were meant to serve. He's doing the thing where he
says one thing and then his build does something completely different. Yeah,
what he is saying is on the face of it,
somewhat ridiculous. But what he's claiming he's going to do
is protect these lands.

Speaker 6 (45:42):
Right.

Speaker 5 (45:42):
What the bill allows them to do is to find
roads that are not permitted and turn them into navigable roads.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
So just actually pave roads, yes, in the protected wildlife in.

Speaker 5 (45:53):
The Yeah, well, crucially in wilderness areas. Right, So in
the nineteen sixty four Wilderness Act not allow for there
to be any mechanized access. Lie's bill proposes not just
to amend the Wilderness Act for within one hundred miles
of the border, but to amend it entirely to allow

(46:14):
for the construction of roads so.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
That they can pulice the public lands better. That's that's
what he's saying. Yeah, right.

Speaker 5 (46:22):
Well, he's one of his claims is for search and rescue,
and that there are already exemptions that allow for mechanize
search and rescue access, right, like yeah, things like helicopters, right, helicopters. Yeah,
if you get and even like you get like motorized gurneys,
you can use the SAR things like that, right, Like
they even ATVs. Right, there's a threat to human.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
Lives a Toyota tacoma.

Speaker 5 (46:42):
Yeah, I mean you'd struggle in most wilderness lands with
the tacoma, but yeah, you could. You could give it
a college try, but it's ludicrous. He hasn't even made
an effort to join the dots, you know. It also
calls for fire mitigation by clearing fuels and building fire breaks,
and includes a provision that would quote address invasive or

(47:05):
non native species in the wilderness area. Yeah, like what
are you going to go in there and round us?

Speaker 4 (47:11):
Everyone's planting and spreading invasive species.

Speaker 5 (47:14):
Yeah, I mean, of course they're invasive species right. Late, Like,
if you go to parts of where I live, like
you'll see mustard, which is not an indigenous species. Because
the climate's changing and people move around the world and
like lots and lots of animals that weren't like here
twenty thousand years ago, are here now.

Speaker 4 (47:28):
I mean, you can make an argument for managing these areas.
I don't think he's coming at this from an environmental
conservation standpoint.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (47:36):
I don't know what the non native species thing is
about other than just like nativism for plants, Like, I
genuinely can't work it out. If anyone has any ideas,
please let me know. It also attempts to inventory damage
done to public lands by migrants, Like what wildfires are
caused by migrants? How many national parks are trashed by migrants?

Speaker 3 (47:56):
Oh my god?

Speaker 4 (47:58):
Yeah, as opposed to the Americans that has since you
treat these areas like dogshit. Yeahs who simply just don't
do their jobs because they're too lazy.

Speaker 5 (48:05):
Yeah, And like the literally thousands of people a year
who fucking drag their refrigerator or television onto public land
and execute it by firing squad. Yeah, like yeah, maybe
make a bill about that. I mean, you want to
do something nice for public land. I want to give
a definition of wilderness from Howard. I think it's zamasap
and he ever read his name with the Wilderness Society,
who more or less wrote Act It defines wilderness as

(48:28):
quote a wilderness in contrast with those areas where man
and his own works dominate the landscape is hereby recognized
as an area where the earth and its community of
life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a
visitor and who does not remain. I don't actually really
like that definition. I like wilderness, but I'm not a

(48:48):
big fan of the idea of like, quote unquote untouched wilderness. Right, like,
every bit of what is now the United States is
a place where indigenous people have been living and surviving
for tens of thousands of years before it was the
United States. It's not untouched. It's just not fucked by
extractive capitalism in a way that a lot of our
land has been in the last two hundred years.

Speaker 4 (49:10):
There could be touching without a fuck, that's what you're saying.

Speaker 5 (49:22):
I saw this mischievous look come on their face, and
I didn't know which direction they were going to take it,
but I didn't expect that one.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
Now this is podcasting.

Speaker 5 (49:32):
Yeah wow, yeah, we've just left the news reel. Let's
do an advertising break it so we can't come back
from that, all right, we've returned out de scandalized myself.

(49:52):
Lee is currently making his claims right that this will
somehow make the border safer and make people on public
lands safer.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
This is such the thinnest justification that you're throwing in,
Like this is so I severely doubt he sincerely even
believes this.

Speaker 5 (50:12):
Yeah, I mean, the border patrol have access to all
these lands, right, like I see I think the cumber
wildness of state wilderness, I see border patrol in there
all the time.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
I can see there's many reasons for why our republic
and might be interested in, like building road infrastructure in
these places and border security. Frankly, is insulting that you're
that he's even trying to use that as a zeitgeist justification.

Speaker 5 (50:34):
Yeah, it's fucking ludicrous. Like the Trump administration is speed
running extractive capitalism on our public lands right, just yesterday
when we're recordings recording on Friday, Joe Biden is president,
as you will remember, Friday seventh, November twenty twenty five,
the Trump administration nominated. Okay, I've outed myself. I'm not

(50:55):
a Biden. I'm not a Biden. Truth. The Trump administration
don't d Steve Pierce to lead the Bureau of Land Management.
Pis is a former New Mexico congressman who has supported
brilling and fracking on federal land. He's also a serial
loser in congressional and state races in New Mexico. I
think he lost a Senate and a gubernatorial race, and

(51:17):
he has voted to shrink existing public lands. The Trump
admin did this before, right, people will probably if they're
engaged in public land advocacy, they will remember the attempts
to save the Bears Ears National Monument from oil exploitation,
which again is in Utah. Utah is for whatever reason,

(51:39):
Utah is a hotbed of anti public lands settlement. Amusingly,
the previous nominee for the leadership of the BLM had
to be removed when emails condemning Trump's response to January
sixth came to light. She I guess failed the loyalty test.
Trump has also put Doug Bergham at the head of

(52:00):
the Department of the Interior. Right, if you're willing with
Bergham's stick, guess.

Speaker 4 (52:06):
His name sounds incredibly familiar.

Speaker 5 (52:08):
Yeah, he was governor I believe in North Dakota. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah,
Like he did this pivot on like culture war issues
where he had previously been not opposed to abortion, for example,
and he just took a massive swing to the right
in order to kind of align with the MAGA position

(52:29):
over time. So he's not only in the Department of
the Interior. I wrote about this on my newsletter that
I write because when he was nominated, he received a
letter of support from the Outdoor Recreation round Table, a
bunch of outdoor brands, notably ARII was one of the

(52:49):
brands that supported his nomination. Bergham is another big oil
and gas guy, right, He's a guy who has talked
about the need for energy exploitation on public land. I
have a whole script, did series and in working on
about specifically drilling in the Arctic refuge. But this goes
far far beyond that, right, this could potentially affect every

(53:09):
piece of public land, every national park, a re national
monument in the United States.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Drill baby drill, Yes, drill baby.

Speaker 5 (53:15):
Drill is pretty much our approach to public land these days. Amusingly,
ARII was shamed into rescinding their support of Bergham. Good
for that, Yeah, yeah, one of the few instances where
people probably posted their way to a change in in
some in some kind of some kind of policy. I guess,
even though it's only ARII policy, I want to talk

(53:35):
a little bit about like how we got to this
idea of public land and the sort of way that
it's sometimes referred to, and in a where I would
prefer we talked about it. I guess the idea we
have right now is that there are various tiers of
public land. Right, there's Bureau of Land Management land, which

(53:58):
is often the least protected. We have national parks, we
have national monuments, we have national forests, and we have wilderness, right,
wilderness being among the most protected. The problem with this
approach is that ecosystems don't necessarily respect property lines. Right.
So let's take for example, in Alaska. Right, they have

(54:20):
hundreds of thousands of acres of their own, but their
traditional way of life and indeed, like their existence depends
on the existence of the porcupine caribou herd. The porcupine
caribou herd makes the longest migration of any land mammal
on Earth, and it carves on the coastal plane, the
coastal plain. The Guichin way of saying it would be

(54:41):
I have heard this said a lot of times. My
sincere apologies if I don't get it right, like I'm
trama best. What's an gwandai goodly? It means a sacred
place where life begins. It's a very sacred place for gwichin.
Don't go there themselves because it's a sacred place. But
it is not in the land. It is part of

(55:01):
the Arctic refuge, a place where the Trump administration is
selling oil and gas leases. Right, So if the caribou
can't carve, then doesn't matter. It still matters to the
which you have all this land. But they won't have
their cariboo, right because the herd will be so disrupted
by oil and gas drilling where it's carving that it
will then disrupt that whole landscape. Right without cariboo, that

(55:22):
landscape would be fundamentally different. So right now, the way
we talk about public lands, I think we talk about
them like in terms of leisure, right, Like often they're
scene as having a value, Like I guess the classic
example would be maybe don't remember this gag. Patagonia run

(55:44):
an advertising campaign called the Places We Play In the
last Trump administration. That's not it, right, that is not cool.
I think if we only see wilderness as a place
where like folks go outside to do send the nar
on climbing routes and and fucking shred some mountain bike trails, bro,
then we fundamentally like missed the value of it, right. Yeah,

(56:07):
this goes back a long long time. For instance, if
we look back in ninety twenty nine with specifically with
the protection of the Arctic Refuge, we can see this
piece that Bob Marshall wrote. Bob Marshall was a forest
at the time, but he's kind of important in this
creating this idea of like wilderness and wilderness protections. He
talked about the quote unquote emotional values of the frontier

(56:28):
being preserved in the wilderness, which again I think kind
of tells us a lot a lot of what's going
on here.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
It's a very very Theodore Roosevelt brained approach to conservation.

Speaker 5 (56:40):
Yeah, right, Like we can go out there and we
can all pretend to be like the guys who participated
in the genocide of indigenous peoples of North America. I
guess like he also he considered using the definition attract
of solitude and savageness, which again like it says a
lot about like it's removing the people from the land,
right like, like both literally and in our conception of it.

(57:02):
And I don't think we should do that. Right when
we talk about wilderness, we need to talk about it
hand in hand with the indigenous people of this country
and their traditional management practices which allowed this place to
be unspoiled until folks started to exploit it in the
last couple of hundred years. They'll take an ad break,

(57:23):
hopefully we get something for like fracking or some other
petrochemical industry, and it will be right back. We are back,
and we are talking about Senator Mike Lee again, Garrison,

(57:46):
would you like to guess which industries have emerged on
the top of Senator Mike Lee's donor list when I
cruise unto open secrets?

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Is it fracking and drilling?

Speaker 5 (58:00):
See real estate? He's got a ton of money from
real estate. About six hundred and sixty five thousand. Six
hundred and sixty five thousand is not that much money
when you consider the millions of acres of public lands
which would be completely and permanently altered by.

Speaker 4 (58:18):
This, right, Yeah, he really should be asking for a
lot more money to sell.

Speaker 5 (58:21):
Off the secure the bag.

Speaker 4 (58:24):
If you're going to do this, it's grossly undervalue.

Speaker 5 (58:26):
Yeah. I always look at campaign donations and I kind
of expect them to be in the billions or trillions
when like you're looking at just this massive and permanent
change in government policy.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
It's that easy, folks.

Speaker 5 (58:40):
Yeah, which is why we are launching a crowdfunding campaign
to buy back or the public lands. We're not no
one should own them. We should not be buying them
back that they should be protected. It's kind of remarkable
how many of our public lands this would impact right
within one hundred miles of the border that gives us

(59:00):
two thirds of the United States population. The general definition
that DHS has operated with also includes all of the
Great Lakes as quote unquote international waterways, so that takes
in like a good chunk of the Midwest, right. It
would then go one hundred miles from the shore of

(59:22):
any of the Great Lakes. I've seen this reported on
very poorly or not at all. A lot of the
people who are better at talking about public lands are
like the hunting fishing, like hook and bullet media. They
will talk about it more in my experience, and like
the straight up outdoor media right, which is where I've

(59:44):
made my career at least somewhat for the last fifteen years.
They will also go harder for it, like it's generally
a more conservative world, but like they will they will
go after politicians who sell public lands. But I think
if you're in capable understanding that, like the border as
a zone of exception, the border as a zone without

(01:00:04):
constitutional rights is a problem, and this selling of the
public lands is part of that problem, then like it's
very hard to have a complete analysis of this. So
like I've seen a lot of analysis without any seemingly
where the rights don't understand that United States operates this
one hundred mile border enforcement zone, right, and that you,
as a US citizen or as a non senstem have

(01:00:26):
fewer rights within that enforcement zone. I have seen a
lot of analysis which doesn't take into account this weird
assessing of migrant damage to public land, Like in what
world is that a useful allocation of governments? Like there
are places right where like if I think about the

(01:00:47):
places where the Biden administration did outdoor attention, that landscape
was damaged because people had fires to stay warm, and
that fire cause is scarring right in our desert landscapes. Yeah,
that landscape is damaged. Like, how you going to what
are you going to do? There were like a thousand
people a day coming through at one point. Are you
going to find them all and charge them more for
like misdemeanor California fire? But also there's a tiny provision

(01:01:11):
of this bill that I found that suggests that migrants
cannot be housed on federal public land unless they are
housed in a detention center. Yeah, yeah, great, thanks. That
was kind of the case before, Like you couldn't really
just be like, well, I mean, by the administration did

(01:01:31):
just say right, you'll Campaigre and will come get you
in a week. There wasn't really a legal precedent for that.
They just went ahead and did it. I guess what
I want to end up with is like I'm obviously
very passionate about this. I guess I'm kind of a
public land super user. You do be camping, Yeah I do.
I am a Yeah, I am a camping guy. If
there's one thing that defines me, it's going camping. I

(01:01:53):
try and sleep outside at least once a month. But yeah,
most of My happiest memories in life are like moving
under my own power through the mountains. That is when
I'm happiest. That is how I deal with my shit.
That is what I do with myself after every single
one of the traumatic work trips that you that you

(01:02:14):
seem to love listening to you, right like that, that
is how I cope with the fact that my job
is to turn trauma into stuff to go in between
chumber casino ads. So, yeah, I love public lands, but
you should too, even if you don't recreate on public lands, right,
So that's the public lands are called America's best idea.
I don't like that because inherent in having public lands

(01:02:36):
is the removal of them from indigenous people, right, and
indigenous people losing their sovereignty over those lands. But as
things that the state has done with land goes, protecting
it for future generations is one of the good ones, right,
Like there are some truly special places. The vastness of
the Western United States is why I live here. I

(01:02:58):
cycled across the United States in twenty ten, and I
was just blown away by like the scale of the
landscapes without significant human damage. That's still something I'm blown
away by yeah, you know, fifteen years later. I spend
as much time as I can, and not just like
national parks. I think a lot of people, if they've
visited public land, were associated with national parks. I'd really

(01:03:20):
encourage you to like hit up national forests, wilderness lands
like places where there it's not a line or a
ticket kiosk, Like you can have a really special wilderness
experience there. But even if you don't want to, that
doesn't appeal to you, if it's not something that you
feel like physically or otherwise comfortable doing, the fact that
it will be there for future generations, the fact that

(01:03:42):
like there is potential to return this land to the
indigenous people of North America without giant fucking mind scars
and roads cut through it right now is something that
we should fight for. And like public lands, it's one
of those things where like I have conversations with dudes
who do not agree with me politically at all, like

(01:04:03):
people who definitely voted for Donald Trump who are also
furious about this shit. And if you can help people
see that this is part of a bigger problem, Like
if this can be a place where we can build
a coalition, that is a good thing, and it's one
of those things that like to take action, you can
just live out and go on the internet and write
to your senator, call your representative. Like you can do

(01:04:25):
these things which are so easy, low risk, and like
it's a sort of engagement that like neoliberal bipartisan politics
wants you to have. Right, it's not hard, but in
this instance, you can do something really good by doing that.
So I would encourage you to do that. Mike Lee's
bill is currently in committee. I believe the Energy and

(01:04:47):
Natural Resources Committee TBD whether it gets out of there,
but he has tried twice, like since the summer to
significantly destroy this credible thing that we all have access
to in the United States. He will continue to try.
This is clearly something that he has an agenda for, so, like,

(01:05:10):
I would really encourage people to keep an eye out
and we will keep reporting on it. Anything else you
want to talk about public land scare.

Speaker 4 (01:05:17):
Yeah, I mean it's a different approach to dealing with
like protected wilderness land. Prop one to amend the state
Constitution just passed in New York. Basically what happened like
one hundred years ago, they were building this Olympic sports
complex and violation of the wilderness like protection like state

(01:05:40):
like act or part of the Constitution. And to deal
with that, I'm not sure what it's taken this long,
but to deal with this, they have just days ago
voted to amenda Constitution to set aside two thousand, five
hundred acres of mountain land nearby but not on this complex,

(01:06:01):
and to turn that into protected land to then continue
the operation and like maintenance of the sports complex. The
proposition was worded a bit weird, but I think in
effect this just results in there being in in the
end of more public land or more protected land specifically. Yeah,

(01:06:22):
and the complex that already exists can then continue to
function because the lands already it was already used.

Speaker 5 (01:06:29):
Yeah, right, like they sort of built it and then
ask permission like I guess one hundred years later almost. Yeah,
Like land swaps happen they like and like like sometimes
you'll see people being like, oh, it's this public landing
sort of Like sometimes land swaps are very menial, right,
like if there's a little parcel of national forest land
or like it can be it's a piece that like

(01:06:51):
is next to a school and the school needs a
playing field and those yeah things like that land. Landswaps
do happen. And as long as we're not like losing
anchorage to oil and gas or to like mcmahonson building,
you know, I think we can be flexible.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
I mean if anything, this this, this will set us
side thousands of acres of land to not have that
happen to it. Yeah, in the mountains of like that
run agyoric. Yes, and then this complex can now continue
to get maintained. I think if this, if this didn't pass,
they would like restrictions would fall upon the capacity of

(01:07:27):
this complex started to be operating.

Speaker 5 (01:07:29):
That's dumb because you have a place which is like
it's not going back, right, Like, once you've built stuff, you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Should use it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:35):
The damage has been dying, I should use it here
and then protect more land exactly. Yeah, And luckily this
this thing barely passed. It was it was pretty closing
around fifty two percent.

Speaker 5 (01:07:45):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):
Most of the votes for no did come from people,
I think living in New York City. I think mostly
because of the way the proposition was worded. It was
worded in a in an odd way because it made
it sound like you're like sacrificing currently protected land at
complexes on so I think people who are approaching it's
from like kind of an ecological standpoint, a consumation standpoint. Yeah,

(01:08:07):
like misunderstood or had or had some like differing view
on like the value of protecting the current land and
the complex is on versus establishing thousands of acres of
more lands to be protected nearby.

Speaker 5 (01:08:21):
Right, Yeah, I mean initiatives and propositions are often written
in a particularly bizarre way, and it's a It's not
like like the California Prop fifty was like two lines.
This is several paragraphs of so I can see how
it would have been confusing to people. But yeah, like
this also happens at a state level all the time, right,
Like states have public lands too. You'll see like a

(01:08:42):
patchwork of state and federal and private land, especially like
in some national forests in the West. Right, But that's
something that especially in Republican rund states now people should
be very aware of in their own states. Is like
the GOP didn't used to be massively anti public plans.
This is a new thing for them, right, They always

(01:09:04):
felt like they needed their I guess maybe that they
needed their like hunting, fishing, shooting, crowd.

Speaker 4 (01:09:10):
No, but environmentalism is now wokeafi Yeah, exactly. Yeah, this
is like a post al gore.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
Thing of now.

Speaker 4 (01:09:18):
The conservatives associate a lot of this language with like
climate change algorisms.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
It's his this woke element.

Speaker 5 (01:09:27):
Yeah, it's very strange. It's funny. Often when I'm out about,
you know, like exploring in the back country, I run
into guys who are out there like they're either hunting
or like looking for places to hunt. I think will
be like, oh, yeah, well there aren't as many of
the turkeys or the deer or the whatever is they
used to be. But then it's very hard for people

(01:09:49):
who now can't say climate change is real to find
a way of like having permission to say what they
want to say because they've seen it with their own eyes. Yeah,
but also the don't want to say it.

Speaker 4 (01:10:00):
But no, I mean I did an episode about this
after the R and C because I talked with Yeah, yeah,
this like Republican conservation group about how they're trying to
bring back like put the conservative back in conservation.

Speaker 5 (01:10:15):
Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, I think Germany generally, the idea of
them conserving anything is pretty much off the table at
this point. But yeah, people getting out in public land.
Will you will understand climate change. You spend long enough
going to the same spot, and you're going to see
what that means. So it has a lot of benefits.
Go outside this weekend, go camping. It's a great desert

(01:10:36):
season right now. If you're within range of a desert,
go camping in the desert. Look at the stars to
find a dark sky area if that's your thing. Because
ARII who had the like, don't go shopping on Black Friday.
Go outside. I don't know, you don't. You don't remember this.
It's okay, this is just shit that I you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:53):
Know, I am.

Speaker 4 (01:10:54):
I am pro gazing at the flickering lights of civilization Garrison.

Speaker 5 (01:11:00):
No one wants to see the fucking flickering lights of civilization.
I do, I do, I don't. I want to see
the stars. I camped in Chaco Canyon earlier this year.
Banger of a national park. That's my it's my final tip.
View of the Great House at Chaco Canyon was the
largest building constructed in the United States until eighteen eighty.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Really yeah, yeah, it is vast.

Speaker 5 (01:11:24):
It's one of the least visited parks in a system
because you have to go like seventeen miles down in
dirt road. Sure, but incredible that these are the ancestral
Pueblo ins, right, like the people who are the ancestors
of the Pueblo tribes today. But it's an amazing place
to go check out. You should all go, not at once.
There's not enough space for all of you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
I mean, I'm just rolling through Mike Lee's Twitter account.

Speaker 5 (01:11:48):
Now, oh yeah, you got any bangers? Not really really,
not really.

Speaker 4 (01:11:54):
I mean he's whining about Zoron and posting a lot
about Charlie Kirk and that's mostly it.

Speaker 5 (01:11:58):
See, he doesn't talk about this stuff because no one
likes it. He got hammered by a bunch of like,
very right wing rancher types on Twitter last time he
tried to do this.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
Yeah, makes sense.

Speaker 5 (01:12:11):
I think he knows better because a lot of people
you can also graze cattle on public land, right, there's
been a whole standoff about this. Long time listeners will
remember the Bundy situation. But yeah, linked to I guess
he's also pissed those people off. Now, I just went
to search for the news coverage of this. The only
thing we can find is a Washington Examiner. So it's

(01:12:33):
it's just us and them. Got the video the autoplayers
on the Washington Examiner page is petrifying.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
The true bastions of journalists and the Washington.

Speaker 5 (01:12:43):
Horseshoes theory come to life. Oh God, all right, I
go outside. This week's last weekend. Fuck it, don't go
to work, go outside, go outside tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
Bye.

Speaker 9 (01:13:11):
Hello everyone. This is Dana al Kurd for it could
happen here.

Speaker 10 (01:13:14):
I'm a professor and analyst of Palestinian and air politics,
and today we're joined by Ahmed Moore, who is the
twenty twenty five Foundation for Middle.

Speaker 9 (01:13:22):
East Peace fellow.

Speaker 10 (01:13:24):
He's also an author, an activist, just very very involved
in the Palestinian space and on the question of Palistini liberation.
So I've invited Ahma today to discuss with us what
we can understand about pro Palestine organizing in the past
two years in comparison to prior to October seventh, twenty

(01:13:45):
twenty three, and think kind of analytically about where we
can go from here.

Speaker 9 (01:13:51):
We're recording this on November fifth, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 10 (01:13:53):
We had a very interesting night last night, whereas Ahran
Mandani was named the mayor of New York City, and
a lot of think pieces since about how this means
nothing and actually means everything and Lapro Palestine movement is winning,
it's really not winning enough, et cetera, et cetera. So, yeah,
we're in an interesting moment in American politics. I think

(01:14:14):
the Palestine question is obviously very very relevant. So yeah,
I met Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:14:19):
Thank you, Donna.

Speaker 11 (01:14:20):
It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 10 (01:14:21):
All right, So maybe we can start with kind of
an introduction to yourself. You can tell us about your
experience as an activist, as an organizer.

Speaker 5 (01:14:30):
Sure, yes, as a researcher.

Speaker 11 (01:14:31):
Yeah, So I was born in Resident Palestine and Gaza
and Ralphah and my family moved here when I was
a kid and became naturalized so American citizen when I
was ten years old. So that was in the mid nineties,
and you know, went to college right after nine to eleven,
and like lots of people, was galvanized around that experience.

(01:14:52):
I think it was a pier. Was so a journalist
both in Bede Lutin and Cairo, and often you'd meet
American journalists roughly of my generation, and all of them
would indicate that, you know, I became engaged around the
Middle East because of nine to eleven. I think nine
to eleven was four our generation, a big learning opportunity
for people. The global war on terror, the war in

(01:15:15):
Iraq galvanized a lot of the left, and I'm thinking
now of move on dot org, and so this is
really the environment that I grew up in. Today, I
mostly work with The Guardian with the Nation mostly right
about Palestine, Israel and American foreign policy. And as you mentioned,
I'm a fellow at the Foundation for Middle East Peace,

(01:15:36):
where I host a podcast, Occupied Thoughts, where we spend
a lot of time thinking through policy matters related to Palisigan.
I have ideas about how things have changed, but that's
just a quick introduction.

Speaker 5 (01:15:49):
To me and my work.

Speaker 9 (01:15:50):
No, thank you, we're approximately the same age. I won't
tell you exactly.

Speaker 10 (01:15:56):
How often, but yeah, I just I'm reflecting so much
these days on how much the War on Terror was
a formative moment politically for our generation, and its interaction
with the Postinian issue. I think that's starting to really
be understood more widely. I think maybe it was more
fringe or like a very select kind of understanding of

(01:16:20):
the left would have that kind of analysis for sure.

Speaker 11 (01:16:23):
Just to put a fine point on it, I mean
that was the I would say generational awareness that we've
been lied to. We've been lied to by Dick Cheney,
George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, all of that cohort those people.
You can see how that's rebounded today in Maine with
Graham Plattner, somebody who fought two or three tours and
then subsequently worked as a mercenary with Blackwater, was radicalized,

(01:16:46):
I would say through that experience when he was watching
these happy, go lucky diplomats swimming in pools in a
diplomatic compound, when just outside, a savage war was being waged,
an insurgency. So I would say that, you know, Palestine
is so deeply interwoven. Palestine is a long history of

(01:17:07):
having been lied to for people here in the United States. Domestically,
that came to a head around the Iraq War. We
werelied into that war. And I think you saw, you
saw the way that the Biden administration particularly stuck with
the playbook and alienated huge numbers of voters in twenty
twenty four. So Palestine is kind of indispensal understanding how

(01:17:30):
our elites in the United States have been captured by
special interests, by corporatist interests, and we're beginning to see that,
I think, rebound in meaningful ways. And of course, congratulations
is Ron Mundani done a wonderful job. He ran an
extraordinary campaign. I question, though, whether the campaign could have

(01:17:51):
been successful without the awakening that occurred through two years
of genocide. And what I mean by that specifically is
so many of the taboos that had been enforced around identity,
around good politics in America were dispensed with because those
taboos were employed to suppress opposition to genocide.

Speaker 10 (01:18:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:18:14):
No, I think you're right on the money on that.

Speaker 10 (01:18:16):
I mean, in some ways, the MAGA movement in Donald
Trump also capitalized on the lies of the war on
Terror two. I mean, despite the incoherence of the MAGA movement,
like that was part of a rebuke of the neocons.
But of course the left is, especially after two years
of unspeakable genocide. I think it has led to just

(01:18:39):
an articulation of how much the American foreign policy in
the Middle East is. You mentioned boomerang. That's an imperial
boomerang that is impacting American politics. It's also highlighted how
much the elite, and public opinion is bifurcated on this.
Palistin has become an issue of democracy. I don't want
to put words in your mouth, but that's what I

(01:18:59):
would say.

Speaker 11 (01:19:00):
No, I think that's correct. I agree with that. I mean,
so Palestine went from being specifically Palestine, from being a
niche issue when I was in college post colonial studies
majors knew about Palestine and could integrate Palestine into an
understanding of life in America, to being really part of
the American story today. And I think it's apt to
describe it that way. The experience of watching a genocide

(01:19:23):
unfold for two years has been radicalizing for many, but
it's also been enlightening in that the first question was
why is this happening? The second question is why can't
we stop it? Okay, Israel's an independent country, we can't
control them. Fine, why are we still supporting this? And
ultimately you end up going down that rabbit hole and

(01:19:44):
arriving at what is this Israel lobby? What is this
special interest? And so I think the degree of complicity,
the way in which the Biden administration blew so much smoke,
the way in which both sides of the Aisle engaged
in genocide and cheered the genocide has caused the Palestine
issue to become deeply interwoven with the experience of being

(01:20:05):
American today. And I don't think that's an overstatement, and
I think concretely it means that you need an answer
to the question, Well, if you can't stand up to genocide,
if you can't stand up for defenseless children in Palestine,
and if you're going to lie to me about it,
why would I expect you to stand up for anything
meaningful as it relates to my standard of living, Say,
I'm a working class person. And so it's become this

(01:20:27):
litmus test, at least on the left, and I think
you're saying a similar dynamic playout on the right, but
for totally different reasons, right right. And it's been extraordinary
to behold because I think so many of us who've
been in this issue for so long, we've been marking
our progress in incrementalist terms, and then suddenly things have
broken wide open and the world has changed very very quickly.

Speaker 10 (01:20:49):
Yeah, from my vantage point in American academia, I mean,
they might have had personal feelings about Israel Palestine, they
may have had sympathies, but so few people would ever
talk about the erasure of Palestine in the academy or
the impact of censorship and attacks on academic freedom. But

(01:21:10):
now because the Palaestinan issue is being used as this
cudgel to attack higher education, like you're just a normal
Joshmo like math professor, You're gonna have to care and
you do. And we're seeing this very much with the
mobilization of the American Association of University Professors that is
not a Middle East specific organization whatsoever, but they recognize

(01:21:32):
the linkages between these issues, so in the ways that
Palestine is interwoven with but also has impacted so many
of our current realities and the policies that we're facing
by the Trump administration and the Bye administration before them.

Speaker 9 (01:21:47):
Yeah, I think it's very clear to a lot of people.

Speaker 5 (01:22:00):
So that actually brings me to one of.

Speaker 10 (01:22:01):
The main questions that I wanted to ask you, is,
aside from kind of this increased awareness and the taboos
that have been broken around the discussion of Palestine and
its integration in American foreign policy and American domestic policy,
what are some other ways that you think since the
genocide began that pro Palestine organizing has changed.

Speaker 11 (01:22:23):
So the biggest thing I've seen is that the analytical
frame has changed. We used to talk about foreign policy,
adventurers and wars for oil, those kinds of things. Now
I think the analysis is very correctly focused on empire,
the way in which resources domestically, the real working class
effort to build a life in the United States is

(01:22:46):
subsumed by wars of really imperial overreach. The whole idea
of empire for me was an antiquated one I didn't
think add a whole lot of relevance today. But I
think I and many others who may have thought in
that way missed the point the realities that empires intact.
I think that awareness that our efforts domestically are deeply,

(01:23:09):
deeply intertwined with what's happening what we're doing elsewhere, is
important and it's emergent.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
It's new.

Speaker 11 (01:23:16):
When I was in graduate school, you would hear people
talk about how they're engaged with domestic policy, or people
talk about their infests in foreign policy, and I was
mostly interested in foreign policy. But today, to try to
draw that differentiation is really meaningless. And again you see
that in the race in New York.

Speaker 5 (01:23:32):
Mom.

Speaker 11 (01:23:33):
Donnie did run on affordability, he ran on a domestic
policy program, but equally thirty eight percent I think of
voters were heavily motivated by his foreign policy interests and
his foreign policy perspectives, which, again from a policy point
of view, he can't really impact, but nonetheless are supported
by this idea that our taxes, what we do domestically

(01:23:56):
is having a huge impact everywhere else in the world,
and that American empire is sprawling and a challenge for
people domestically as well. From a pure activist point of view,
you know, I used to have a real belief in
electoral politics that was shaken deeply through the DNC, through

(01:24:17):
the grassroots effort to be heard uncommitted. Yeah, the uncommitted
movement precisely. We'll see where things go. I mean, the
truth is that, you know, the person who is just
selected in Jersey is a typical I believe APAC Democrat,
Mike Ryl. My perspective domestically is that we need to
be aggressive, We need to be forceful in calling for

(01:24:40):
a total reconstitution of Democratic Party, no half measures, and
I think zern Mundani did a good job of illustrating
what that could look like.

Speaker 10 (01:24:48):
Yeah, I mean there's always a tension in this very
money captured system that we have that at certain level
it doesn't really matter liberal or Republican.

Speaker 9 (01:24:58):
They are captured.

Speaker 10 (01:24:59):
But I think I think what the New York City
race has demonstrated is like that can only go so far.
You still need some public support, which is why of
course they're going after gerrymandering and all of that. But yeah,
it's an uphill battle. But I think if this democracy
is to exist, we are in a better footing than
we were, you know, on this discussion, I also wondering

(01:25:20):
what you think of this characterization, which is that I
think before this genocide, and I don't mean to create
this binary, but it has been a very transformative event.
Before this genocide, I think a lot of Palestinian American
organizing in spaces discussed the issue of Palestine in a
right spaceed approach way, so about human rights, about ending auparthide,

(01:25:45):
about extending rights, and I think the framing for that
has also changed. It is really a critique of settler
colonialism and the legitimacy of these nation states. First of all,
what do you think of that characterization on my end,
but also what do you think of the tension and
then that poses for the Palestinian National liberation movement that
still wants a state.

Speaker 5 (01:26:05):
Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 11 (01:26:06):
The thing again, the analytic frame has shifted. We've gone
from a contested conversation around nineteen sixty seven, the June
War when Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan, Gosta
from Egypt, Jerusalem as well from Jordan, the Goal on Heights,
some Syria and a small silver of land from Lebanon

(01:26:26):
to nineteen forty eight. That's what we talk about now,
and that's correct, and I think for many Palestinians or
Palestinian Americans that has always been the starting point of
the conversation. But now we have the political legitimacy to say,
wait a second, this whole state was founded upon separate
and unequal on Jewish supremacy on a point of view

(01:26:48):
that we reject as Americans and we should reject everywhere
in the world. And so I think that's the first
meaningful change that I've seen when we talk about Palestine.
And then of course settle colonialism is built into that analysis.
Things get a little bit different when you zoom out
let me just talk about domestic I think that when

(01:27:08):
you talk to people on the left, the universalist argument
everybody's created equal is very, very powerful and resonant, and
it's the one that I believe in. But what's happening
on the right as well is an America first argument,
and the word protectorate comes up repeatedly. Why are we
investing so much in a protectorate? Tucker Carlston powerfully, I
think for his audience, and this is probably the most

(01:27:30):
influential commentator in the United States to day, but powerfully,
you know, said, this country has half the size, half
the economy the state of Connecticut. Why have we invested
so much political capital, so much money and something which
is so immaterial, especially when it pays a big negative
dividend in lots of different ways. So the nativist argument

(01:27:55):
is meeting the universalist argument. But the core analysis around
settled colonialism, around the lack of legitimacy for a supremacist state,
gives rise to both of those arguments. That access to
the substrate. I would say, Palestinians who want to see
a Palestinian state, and how you're going back to Palestine,
I don't know what that means today. I've heard perspectives

(01:28:15):
that availing ourselves of statehood as a legal construct will
mean that you can now access legal frameworks to pursue
justice in the courts wherever they may exist. I hope
that's true. Let's see what works out. I think there
are people who are trying to take Israeli men dual
nationals who participated in the genocide to court in France.

(01:28:36):
I think by using some of the some of the
laws that exists between recognized states and non states, or
maybe the UK. Let's see if robber meets road there.
I support those tactics, but practically, when you're talking about
Palestinian liberation, I don't believe that a state which has
been colonized out of existence and you kind of have

(01:28:58):
to look at a map to see what I mean here.
But the West Bank is thoroughly colonized, Gaza is still
occupied by the Israelis and will likely be slowly ethnically
cleansed over time and not rebuilt. I fail to see
how a state illegal construct is going to yield real
benefits for the people on the ground now in Palestine.

Speaker 10 (01:29:17):
I agree, and I think that the continuation of this
framework the statehood framework that a lot of our kind
of political elites in the Palestinian landscape continue to use,
and a lot of these countries in the global North
use also to bypass with work that actually needs to
be done after a genocide.

Speaker 9 (01:29:39):
It's certainly a distraction in.

Speaker 10 (01:29:41):
My view, but it also speaks to the renewal that
needs to happen within Palestinian politics and within the PLO.

Speaker 9 (01:29:49):
But that's a bigger matter.

Speaker 10 (01:30:02):
My next question was going to be on the Palsine
and American diaspora. In what ways do you think the
passing American diaspora is alike with people in historic Palestine,
with other diasporas, and in what.

Speaker 9 (01:30:16):
Ways do you think that they're unique.

Speaker 11 (01:30:18):
That's a hard question for me to answer. I think
the diaspora, in the way that I've interacted with people's
is diverse. What people have in common is a common
reference point, the NECA. They have a common understanding around
the illegitimacy of Israel as an ethno state which takes
Jewish supremacy as its point of departure. But it's a

(01:30:39):
very diverse diaspora. I mean, our first palacan American in
Congress is justin Amash who.

Speaker 5 (01:30:44):
Is on the right.

Speaker 3 (01:30:46):
That's right.

Speaker 9 (01:30:46):
I always forget about him.

Speaker 11 (01:30:47):
Yeah, I mean he had relatives who were murdered in
Visa at a church in northern Vesia, which dates back
to I think the eleventh century. So we're diverse diaspora.
I think the palace in diaspora in the United States
is integrated. It's educated. That's the passport for lots of
Palestinians around the world. Is how you get out, It's

(01:31:08):
how you build alive. We have a very high literacy
rate in Palestine, exceeds ninety nine point five percent. But
I think where the diaspora hasn't, at least in the
United States, done as effective a job. And this is
kind of the natural trajectory I think of diaspora communities generally.
I don't know that we're as aggressive and organized as

(01:31:29):
we could be. And I want to emphasize the word aggressive,
the idea that we can go out and compete at
all levels of government, that we can go out and
assert our understanding of history backed by facts. We should
be doing more of that, especially when you look kind
of across the board when it comes to people who

(01:31:49):
are doing well in medicine or in business, you know,
where there's been a real career risk for speaking out
and for being assertive. We can do more now, and
we should use the leverage game through two years of
genocide the most expensive access to leverage I can imagine,
to push much harder politically.

Speaker 9 (01:32:10):
Yeah, that's a very good point.

Speaker 10 (01:32:11):
I'm also wondering how well you think the Palestinian organizing
groups and spaces, how well integrated are they into other
activist issue areas.

Speaker 11 (01:32:24):
Yeah, I think this is where when I was in college,
I didn't know the word intersectionality. That wasn't a concept
that really was one that people thought about. You know,
you would host an event and you would invite your friends,
some of whom would be in the Black students group,
some of whom would be in the Queer students group,
and just regular left groups. But today I'd say that
activists have a much more complete sense of how you

(01:32:48):
almost have a social quilt, and a compression on one
part of it will impact everything else that's related to it,
and we're all interrelated in that way. I'd say that
the most potent discussions around Palestine are coming from left
organizing groups, not exactly Palestinian organizing groups. I think if
I could offer gentle criticism of Palistine organizers, there's been

(01:33:10):
too much and you sawvicely with uncommitted, too much effort
to ingratiate yourselves to the existing power apparatus to ask
for a seat at the table. When it's somebody like
Zoron Mumdani again who demanded a seat at the table
through an unrelenting focus on the issues, achieved access to

(01:33:31):
a platform, then nobody wanted to seed. And I don't
think that following the rules exactly or being friendly about
accessing platforms within the democratic parties one yield a huge
benefit to Palestinian Americans or people here. I'd say the
most principled organizing is organizing that's going to win, and

(01:33:52):
today that comes from non Palestinian groups, and I'm okay
with that. I don't really think it matters if the
best argument is coming from somebody whose family comes from
South Asia through Uganda or somebody whose family emerges from
you know, the Balata refugee camp, that doesn't really matter
to me. I think just to focus on the principles
is the most important thing.

Speaker 5 (01:34:12):
Yeah, right right.

Speaker 10 (01:34:13):
I think we're definitely seeing more of an acceptance of that.
I agree with the limitations that you referenced. I also
sometimes do reflect on how matched the discussion is in
the United States with the discussion in historic Palestine, and
what activists can do to kind of bridge some gaps
that might emerge. But of course, understanding that we do

(01:34:34):
exist in a different political reality and we obviously will
develop different views as a result of that.

Speaker 11 (01:34:38):
I agree, and look, I mean, nobody needs to be
apologetic about inhabiting a different reality. You know, we don't
need to defer to a leadership which is divided and
divided in Palestine and PLO that won't talk to itself,
and there are structural reasons for that, right, I mean,
the Israelis and the Americans have done a very effective
job in splintering palaestinine leadership. I think we need to

(01:35:00):
extremely locally. There are issues that matter to my community
in West Philadelphia, bigger issues across Pennsylvania that impact my life,
that impact my life as a father of three little girls.
So I think being a member of a community and
focusing again relentlessly on the principles and the fact that

(01:35:20):
we've known all along is critical to pushing the conversation
on palsign forward and practically today, for me, that means
an arms embargo, it means sanctions, it means a cultural boycott,
and it means those things unapologetically. Again, those are principal
positions that I can take as an American citizen, a
citizen in a country which has underwritten genocide, has underwritten

(01:35:43):
apartheid for decades.

Speaker 5 (01:35:44):
Yep.

Speaker 10 (01:35:45):
I think I agree with that analysis. As the author,
which we didn't mention at the beginning, as the author
one of the co authors of After Zionism with Anthony Lonstein,
I'm going to pose a difficult question for you now.
I'm just joking, not that you have to answer fully,
but where do you think we go from here? Where
do you think the pro Palestine movement goes from here?

(01:36:05):
And if you can reflect in your answer on where
we've stalled as well.

Speaker 5 (01:36:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:36:11):
So I used to believe in one state for everybody
with equal rights. Today I think the writing is on
the wall for the Palestinians in Palestine. The ethnic cleansing
of Palestine is preceded the fact that has been utterly destroyed,
utterly destroyed. There are no universities, no schools, no really
functioning hospitals. The basic infrastructure required for the maintenance of

(01:36:34):
life doesn't exist there anymore. That's part of why it's
a genocide. We've got to take that reality into account.
The Palestinians and Za the Palestinians and Palestine generally have
the right to pursue life. They have a right to
an education, they have a right to self actualization, and
many of them, when they can, they're going to leave.
That's the ethnic cleansing program, that's the idea behind the

(01:36:56):
mass destruction of Palestine. The Israelis are sixty in that regard.
I would say, we need to be mindful of that.
We need to be aware of that. So what I
think will happen ultimately is that you'll end up with
some rump community of Palestinians in Palestine who are eventually
when in arms embargoes enacted. And I hope it's within
our lifetimes when the sanctions are enacted, when Israel is

(01:37:19):
forced to become a normal country with equal rights for all,
will continue to exist in that space. I don't know,
you know, I can't predict, nobody can really predict what's
certainty what's going to happen. But the kinds of pressure
required to cause Israel to become a de radicalized normal
society will take time to produce. And in the interim,

(01:37:41):
the writing is on the wall for the Palacinians in Palestine,
and I think that's the saddust for me part of
all this. The continuity of Palacinian life and Palestine is
not guaranteed. You know, the overwhelming force of the state
exists in one place, and that's in Israel.

Speaker 10 (01:38:02):
Yeah, that's why I when a lot of people talk
positively about the developments of the past two years, of
course you want to feel hope. You want to highlight
how the discussion has changed here in America, how politics
is moving forward. You want to have some pathway. But
we never were able to prevent that genocide. Nothing we

(01:38:22):
did in any avenue. All of us have, you know,
different positionalities, engaged with different actors, like none of it
actually stopped that, and.

Speaker 9 (01:38:32):
That is a very hard pill to swallow.

Speaker 3 (01:38:35):
I hope.

Speaker 10 (01:38:35):
I've always been hoping that at least that will allow
us to get to the place of self reflection about
what radical solutions look like in the aftermath of this
kind of disaster.

Speaker 9 (01:38:48):
And yeah, I hope that's that's where we go from here.

Speaker 10 (01:38:51):
On my end, Yeah, thank you so much, Ahmad that
this has been a really enriching discussion, and I think
that the listeners will benefit from this overarching view of
Ptal Palace on activism and it's intersections with everything we're
seeing unfold.

Speaker 11 (01:39:08):
So thank you so much again, Thank you, Donna. It's
been a huge fighter.

Speaker 4 (01:39:28):
Two weeks ago, four days before Halloween, former Fox News
anchor Tucker Carlson hosted the twenty seven year old white
pharmacist influencer Nick Fuentes on Tucker's popular internet show. Two
weeks later, this interview has over six million views on YouTube,
over half million on Rumble, and eighteen million alleged views

(01:39:52):
on x the Everything app with over one hundred thousand
likes and twenty thousand retweets, plus the unknown number of
views from podcasting platforms like Apple or Spotify, on which
Tucker Carlson's show also airs. This is it could happen here.
I'm Garrison Davis. Throughout the almost entirely friendly two hour interview,

(01:40:16):
Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson discussed Nick's libertarian origin story,
his conversion to Trump's bombastic style of populism getting a
show on the Right Side Broadcast network as a teenager
after a viral college debate, how the Daily Wire initially
befriended then tried to quash his early political career, and
how that pushed Nick to adopt a far right adversarial

(01:40:40):
stance against mainstream conservatism and the gatekeepers of the conservative establishment,
which Nick identified as the quote unquote Zionist Jews like
Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin, and Dennis Prager. Here's Nick and Tucker.

Speaker 6 (01:40:58):
It was these the guys that were really controlling the
media apparatus that seemed to me to be the biggest
impediment Fox.

Speaker 2 (01:41:05):
Fox is not a Jewish business though, well.

Speaker 6 (01:41:08):
Rupert Murdoch is an ally of Nan Yahoo, so he's aligned. Yeah,
and he owns the whole news corp empire, so and yeah,
he's certainly a part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:41:17):
Also.

Speaker 2 (01:41:19):
I mean Dave Rubin though, does he matter?

Speaker 6 (01:41:22):
No?

Speaker 12 (01:41:22):
No, not really right, I mean Dave Rubin is like,
I don't know if do people watch Dave Rubin?

Speaker 7 (01:41:28):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (01:41:28):
They did back then. I mean, because you got to
consider they were kind of like the ascendant new media.
You know, they represented the next big thing.

Speaker 12 (01:41:38):
I mean and Ben Shapiro seems irrelevant to me now now,
but back then for I guess that's that's true, so
maybe you one.

Speaker 3 (01:41:48):
Oh, certainly.

Speaker 4 (01:41:49):
Tucker tried to advise Fuentes to focus more of his
ire on Israel's influence on American politics as a foreign
policy issue and not quote unquote blood guilt based on ethnicity,
while Fuentes defended the necessity of his rhetoric against what
he called the quote unquote unique issue of quote unquote

(01:42:13):
organized Jewry that promotes a form of identity politics, linking
Israel to quote Jewishness as an ethnicity, identity, and religion unquote,
which makes most culturally Jewish people incompatible with America first patriotism.
This is basic dual loyalty anti Semitism, which Nick continued

(01:42:35):
to outline by framing Jewish people as a historically stateless
people that resist assimilation and put their own interests above
those of whichever non Jewish majority country they currently reside,
attention which the existence of Israel now heightens.

Speaker 6 (01:42:52):
No other country has a strong identity like that. This religious,
blood and soil confiction, this history of being in the diaspora, stateless,
wandering persecuted, and in particular the historic animosity between the
Jewish people and the Europeans. They hate the Romans because
the Romans destroyed the Temple. That's why Eric Weinstein goes

(01:43:14):
to the arch of Titus and gives it the finger
and takes a picture.

Speaker 2 (01:43:19):
We don't think like that.

Speaker 6 (01:43:20):
As Americans and white people, we don't think about the
Roman Empire in two thousand years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:43:24):
They do, right, Americans and Christians would never think about
Check's notes, the Roman Empire or the events of two
thousand years ago. Sure, Nick, Obviously, to many people listening
to this show, Fuentes has been a known anti Semitic

(01:43:45):
stream control for nearly ten years, and Tucker himself knows this.
The main pushback Tucker gave Nick was on why Nick
attacked other figures on the far right who were possible
allies of the America First movement and America First foreign policy,
like Marjorie Taylor Green, jd Vance, Joe Kent, and Tucker himself.

Speaker 2 (01:44:09):
Why attack them?

Speaker 6 (01:44:11):
Well, in short, they attacked me first. Yeah, but like
who cares? Well, let's take Joe camp I mean, you
attacked me constantly.

Speaker 4 (01:44:20):
Tucker also advocated framing that does not allow it. He
believes to be popular America first ideas like opposition to
foreign influence and dual citizenship to get subverted by leaning
into accusations of hate and racial prejudice, which during the interview,
Fuentes nominally agreed with some of them.

Speaker 12 (01:44:41):
I'm sorry to be a conspiracy nut. I really try
not to be a conspiracy because it's embarrassing, you know.
But after January sixth, then just finding out the number
of FBI personnel in the crowd, it's like, and I've
just seen this. David Duke is a great example. Some
of these are the Charlottesville rally, had a bunch of
Feds there being like we're white supremacist, we hate the blacks,

(01:45:05):
the Edward whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:45:05):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:45:06):
It's like, that's not real, Like there is some of
that going on, don't you think I think that. I
think that there's a lot of sincere people. Well, for sure,
I completely agree, you know, and they're just non skulls.

Speaker 4 (01:45:18):
For some reason, Nick neglected to mention that he in
fact was at Charlottesville, and the backlash to the Unite
the Right rally forced him to drop out of college
and propelled his streaming career. Throughout this whole interview, it
mostly felt like Tucker was trying to act as a
mentor figure to Fuentes, advising him to let go of

(01:45:41):
past beefs and providing a sort of clean slate to
allow Nick to present his political views in a more
streamlined manner as simply anti Israel as an extension of America. First,
during the interview, Tucker himself explained his motives for inviting
Fuentes on the show.

Speaker 12 (01:46:00):
Do you hope that people who want to learn what's
happening and who you are will watch the whole thing?
It's probably naive, hope that it won't be reduced to
whatever you're saying, something naughty and me laughing and see
they're both Nazis. I mean, you know that's going to happen,
of course, but I'm willing to take that risk because
I just think it's important to know. You're clearly ascendant.

(01:46:21):
You're enormously talented, and more talent than I am for
sure as a talker. So and they've you know, there
have been a lot of attempts to silence here and
it hasn't worked. So my calculation obviously be as blun
as I can be. Is like, I don't want to
have fun tests on it, be like you, but you're
a Nazi, just like fint does. Okay, but then I'm like,
I don't think fetest is going away. Ben Shapiro tried

(01:46:43):
to like strangle him in the crib in college, and
now he's bigger than ever, so it probably would just
be worth hearing what Nick Fuinntes thinks. I just want
to be transparent about my motives here, and I.

Speaker 4 (01:46:56):
Think Tucker is right in calling Funtes ascendant. Talk more
about that at the end of this episode. For the
last thirty minutes of this interview, the two discussed pornography,
alcohol and drugs as ruining America's young men through reality distortion,
and I had a whole segment on Nick fuent As

(01:47:17):
explaining to a confused Tucker Carlson the concept of internet pornography,
which unfortunately I had to cut for time. But if
there's enough demand for this on blue Sky or Reddit,
maybe I can make a bonus episode next week. Rather
than focusing on the substance of this interview in Tucker's motivation,

(01:47:38):
a lot of mainstream reporting has just highlighted a few
controversial sound bites like an offhand, semitrual comment about how
Fuentez admires Stalin. But this interview did send shockwaves through
the American conservative ecosystem, of which Fuentez was always held
at a very long arms length away. In the immediate

(01:48:02):
wake of the interview, references to Tucker were curiously removed
from the Heritage Foundation's donor page in partnership with the
Tucker Carlson Network. On October thirtieth, Heritage President Kevin Roberts
released a video defending Tucker, captioned, there has been speculation
that Heritage is distancing itself from Tucker Carlson over the

(01:48:23):
past twenty four hours. I want to put that to
rest right now.

Speaker 13 (01:48:27):
Conservatives should feel no obligation to reflexively support any foreign government,
no matter how loud the pressure becomes from the globalist
class or from their mouthpieces in Washington. The Heritage Foundation
didn't become the intellectual backbone of the conservative movement by
canceling our own people or policing the consciences of Christians,

(01:48:48):
and we won't start doing that now. We will always
defend our friends against the slander of bad actors who
serve someone else's agenda. That includes Tucker Carlson, who remains
and as I have said before, always will be a
close friend of the Heritage Foundation. The venomous coalition attacking
him or sewing division, their attempt to cancel him will fail.

(01:49:12):
Most importantly, the American people expect us to be focusing
on our political adversaries on the left, not attacking our
friends on the right. I disagree with and even a
poor things that Nick Fuintes says, but canceling him is
not the answer either. When we disagree with the person's
thoughts and opinions, we challenge those ideas and debate. And

(01:49:35):
we have seen success in this approach as we continue
to dismantle the vile ideas of the left.

Speaker 4 (01:49:42):
Roberts primarily framed this as an issue of cancelation and
included some pretty sketchy lines in that video. Roberts also
said that Heritage doesn't quote take direction from members or donors.
This video was polarizing, to say the least. Nick Fuentes fans,
who are called gropers and America First nationalists rejoiced and

(01:50:06):
claimed victory, while many GOP establishment figures, Jewish Republicans, and
many Heritage employees were left bamboozled. The New York Post
published internal Heritage group chats with staff members, writing that
this was quote the most embarrassed I've ever been to
be a Heritage employee. It's not close end quote. I'm

(01:50:29):
disgusted by this and don't understand how this premeditated and
orchestrated response could come out of one of the biggest
think tanks in the world. Unquote more texts read quote
saying we can't cancel someone is safe space wokeism and
quote if we are labeled on the same side as

(01:50:49):
Nick Fuentez, then we deserve to lose. Talking with some
of the interns, I think that there is a growing
number of them who actually agree with Fuentez's views. Now
beyond employee dissent, sources close to Heritage told The New
York Post that the think tank has been quote unquote
hemorrhaging Evangelical, Christian and Jewish donors. David Bernstein, the author

(01:51:14):
of Woke Anti Semitism and a former member of the
task force a Heritage called Project Ester, a National Strategy
to combat anti Semitism, told The New York Post on
November three that he had resigned from his position over
Kevin Roberts's remarks citing the language of a venomous coalition
aligned against Tucker. To quote Jewish Insider quote, Rabbi Yakov Mencken,

(01:51:39):
executive vice president of the Coalition for Jewish Values, told
Jewish Insider that Robert's message quote was the most tone
deaf in both its content and timing that I've ever
heard from major Washington organization on any political side. On quote,
Menkin resigned from Heritage's Protrogester, the group's anti Semitism initiative,
last week, sponds to Robert's video message defending Carlson. Along

(01:52:03):
with Menken and Polition for Jewish Voices, several other groups
have also publicly disaffiliated from Heritage's anti Semitism task force,
including the National Jewish Advocacy Center, the Zionist Organization of America,
and the Young Jewish Conservatives. On Halloween, Heritage president Kevin
Roberts made a post summarizing a small sampling of Fuentes's

(01:52:27):
most racist, anti Semitic, and pro Hitler views and said quote,
our task is to confront and challenge those poisonous ideas
at every turn to prevent them from taking America to
a very dark place. Join us not to cancel, but
to guide, challenge, and strengthen the conversation, and be confident

(01:52:47):
as I am, that our best ideas at the heart
of Western civilization will prevail. For those, especially young men,
who are enticed by Fuentes and his acolytes online, there
is a better way way. Roberts has repeatedly said that
attempting to cancel Fwenttes would only grow his audience, as

(01:53:08):
opposed to whatever Roberts is doing by playing foot seaes
with Tucker and Fuentes, resulting in multiple news stories a
day name dropping Fwenttes and massively raising his public profile.

Speaker 13 (01:53:19):
It would not invite him to a heritage event or
to my show. But the point is we have to
find other avenues to engage the ridiculous ideas that he's saying,
rather than, as many people have called for online, that
you can just shun him, that you can just ignore him,
and that the problem goes away. My motivation for posting
that video yesterday, especially looking ahead towards twenty twenty six

(01:53:41):
and twenty twenty eight, is that we have to engage
those issues if we want to build a movement. I
understand that, particularly for our Jewish friends who ought to
be upset about Twintest's comments about anti Semitism, that he's
just anathema.

Speaker 3 (01:53:55):
I agree with that as well.

Speaker 13 (01:53:56):
But if we're going to actually correct the scourge of
anti Semitism, we've got to go convince those unfortunately millions
of young men who find that appealing. I do believe
that they're convincible. I believe that people like you, hopefully
people like us at Heritage, and even people like Tucker
might be able to play a role in that.

Speaker 4 (01:54:14):
Following backlash to Kevin Roberts's initial statement, Roberts chief of
staff Ryan Neuhause resigned from Heritage after being reassigned as
a senior advisor in housing policy, a position sources told
New York Post was the quote unquote Siberia of Heritage.
Before resigning, Newhouse reposted messages defending Robert's video, including a

(01:54:36):
post advocating that quote unquote virtue signaling employees at the
Heritage Foundation should resign if they're so outraged by Robert's statement.
During Halloween weekend, lawyer Mark Goldfetter resigned from the Heritage
affiliated National Task Force to Combat Anti Semitism, writing on
X the Everything app I cannot serve under someone who

(01:54:58):
thinks Nazis are worth debating. On November one, Princeton University
professor Robert P. George, member of the Heritage Board of Trustees,
who allegedly has been attempting to oust Roberts as the
head of the foundation. In the wake of this controversy,
posted on x the Everything app quote American conservatism today
faces a challenge. That challenge comes from those who reject

(01:55:20):
our commitment to inherent an equal human dignity. They are
seeking acceptance in the conservative movement and its institutions, and
they do so with the ultimate objective of transforming them
by undermining that commitment. I cannot accept the idea that
we have no enemies to the right. The white supremacists,
anti semites, the eugenicists, bigots must not be welcome into

(01:55:44):
our movement or treated as normal or acceptable.

Speaker 3 (01:55:48):
Unquote. You sure about that, Robert P.

Speaker 4 (01:55:52):
George, This Conservative commitment to inherent and equal human.

Speaker 3 (01:55:58):
Dignity, you share about this? You sure about that?

Speaker 4 (01:56:02):
Surely the American Conservatives aren't restricting people's health care and
pushing them off food stamps, and kidnapping and uprooting families
and sending them to far off countries. Seems like all
those things would breach this commitment to inherent andy equal
human dignity. I never thought the leopards would eat my face,

(01:56:22):
sobs Heritage Board of Trustees member who voted for the
leopards eating people's faces party, We'll be right back after
these ads. The conservative in fighting intensified went On November three,

(01:56:47):
Monday morning, Ben Shapiro released a forty minute video captioned,
no to the gropers, No to cowards like a Tucker
Carlson who normalized their trash, No to those who championed them,
noted demoralization, note a bigger tree and anti meritocratic horseshit.
No to anti Americanism.

Speaker 14 (01:57:05):
No, that fragmentation is being caused purposefully by a splinter
faction of people led by a young man named Nick Flintes.
They call themselves the Groupers. They are white supremacists. They
hate women, Jews, Hindus, many types of Christians, brown, people
of a wide variety of backgrounds, Blacks, America's foreign policy,
and America's constitution. They admire Hitler and Stalin, and that

(01:57:26):
splinter faction is now being facilitated and normalized within the
mainstream Republican Party. The main agent in that normalization is
Tucker Carlson, who is an intellectual coward, a dishonest interlocutor,
and a terrible friend. And Tucker Carlson last week was aided,
a betted, celebrated for normalizing Nazism within the Republican Party
by the mainstay organization of the traditional right, the Heritage Foundation.

Speaker 4 (01:57:50):
Shapiro then had to preface his comments by saying, quote,
this is not about free speech or cancellation end quote.
Criticisms of bad speech is in fact just a form
of free speechuote and went on this lengthy diet tribe
to explain how what he's doing isn't cancelation, which Ben
defined as banning people from the social media and publishing platforms.

(01:58:14):
What would be more accurately described as deplatforming, as opposed
to like social cancelation, which is not something that Ben
is calling for. That is not calling for deplatforming.

Speaker 14 (01:58:24):
It is not cancelation to draw moral lines between viewpoints.
In fact, we used to call that one of the
key aspects of conservatism. It is not cancelation to refuse
to signal boost Hitler supporters like Nick Flentes. It is
not cancelation to criticize Tucker Carlson for rhetorically fluffing Nick
Flentes and other anti American crackpots. It's not cancelation if

(01:58:44):
you urge others to stop promoting those who rhetorically fluff
Nazi apologists. Those are all elements of free speech, and
anyone who says differently is lying to you, and lying
for the most cynical reasons to misdirect from their own
defense of those Nazi apologists and their promoters. The issue
here isn't that Tucker Carlson had Nick Flints on his
show last week. He has ever read to do that.

(01:59:05):
Of course, The issue here is that Tucker Carlson decided
to normalize and fluff Nick Flantes, and that the Heritage
Foundation then decided to robustly defend that performance. Those who
criticize both Tucker and Heritage aren't canceling. They are quite
properly drawing a moral line. Now, from Tucker Carlson's interview,
you might have gathered that Flintes has some borderline views

(01:59:25):
on race, a peculiar obsession with what he calls organized jeury,
and a rather sad relationship with the female sex. But
probably you, Kim weigh thinking that for the most part,
Flintes lives on the radical edge of normality. You think
that if you watch the interview. Because Tucker Carlson decided
that it was important not only to host Flintes, but
to smooth over his views, water them down, and make

(01:59:46):
them far more palatable to a normal audience.

Speaker 4 (01:59:49):
Ben proceeded to do a ten minute Nick Fuentes clip show,
playing a slick collection of some of the most defensive
things Nick has said to camera, and then blamed the
Left for creating the conditions that let this hatred emerge,
framing Fuentes as the dialectical inverse of the hyper woke,

(02:00:09):
id pole Left.

Speaker 14 (02:00:11):
And there's no doubt that Nick fuant Has has a
lot of play these days. That's because the Left, by
moving into a politics of anti white, anti Christian, anti
male identitarianism, created its bizarro mirror image, a white, pseudo
Christian in cell identitarian movement dedicated to destroying the institutions
of this country and replacing Americanism with something else. Nick
Flint's philosophy is not fully formed. It's an incoherent stew

(02:00:33):
of malignity.

Speaker 4 (02:00:35):
The left did not create Nick Fuentes. He is the
direct product of the right wing content ecosystem that Shapiro
himself trailblazed. It's Ben Shapiro, but taken even further with
post ironic gen Z brainwrot. Even if Fuentes himself has
been banned from many of the big tent conservative events,

(02:00:58):
his idea is still festered, spread under the radar, and
influenced the further radicalization of other right wing commentators so
that they could better compete with Fuentes. Tucker himself was
a part of this. The twenty nineteen quote unquote Groper War,
in which Nick Fuentes deployed his fans to disrupt turning

(02:01:18):
Point usa Q and A events with leading questions, pressured
Charlie Kirk to adopt viewpoints further and further to the right,
specifically on race and immigration and now the White Great
replacement is basically a mainstream conservative viewpoint, and Fuentes played
a huge part in that. This is in fact your problem, Ben.

(02:01:42):
For the rest of this forty minute video, Shapiro directed
his attention to Tucker Carlson, criticizing his defense of Russia
and multi polar views. Tucker's pro dictator comments, populist criticism
of Trump, and sort of dodgy anti Israel statements. Shapiro
highlighted comments Tucker made during the Fuentez interview where he

(02:02:03):
lampooned high profile Republicans and neocons who have been quote
unquote seized by the pro Israel quote unquote brain virus,
with Tucker claiming that he dislikes Christian Zionists quote more
than anybody unquote because it's Christian heresy. Shapiro described the

(02:02:24):
function of Tucker's current online platform as a safe space
to bring on conspiracy theorists, fringe figures, alternative historians, and
those just outside the overt window to then quote unquote
gloss them. As Shapiro says, it's not about building a
radicalization pipeline out of the mainstream, but bringing the actual

(02:02:46):
radical ideas to the mainstream.

Speaker 14 (02:02:49):
Tucker Carlson act as an ideological launderer for other people's evils.
Tucker Carlson says many inflammatory things, always buying back just
enough of it to appear as though he's not saying
what he's clearly saying. He's a master of gas lighting.
Tucker Carlson, for example, would never say out loud what
Nick Flintes does. He wouldn't say the things many of
his guests say, and so instead he acts as an

(02:03:11):
ideological launderer. He takes other people's hideous ideas, he softens them,
he treats them with love and care, and then he
provides them with a massive signal boost. He isn't merely
talking to people in good faith, of course, He's promoting
certain people and ideas and attacking others. This is how
Tucker Carlson's ideological laundering works. You bring your dirty, ugly
ideologies to Tucker Carlson's rhetorical car wash. He mixes it

(02:03:31):
with some of the fstigial respect Americans have for him
from his Fox News days, and voila, hideous ideas suddenly
become mainstream. And then, of course Tucker denies he said
anything controversial at all. He was just asking questions, He
was just interviewing people. You don't want him to cancel people,
do you.

Speaker 4 (02:03:47):
Ben continued to complain about Tucker platforming Candace Owentz and
her increasingly anti Semitic conspiracy theorists. Except remember it was
your company that gave Candace a huge, huge platform after
she left turning point end Prager you is she also
a consequence of the woke left, like Fuentes is Shapiro.

(02:04:10):
The call is coming from inside your own company to
further demonstrate how much of this stuff is downstream from Shapiro.
It's actually because of Candace that Fuentes even went on
Tucker's show at all. Candace had Fuentes on her show
a few months prior, and when she went on Tucker's show,

(02:04:30):
she told him how great Fuentes is and argued in
his defense. As for Heritage, Ben acknowledged his long standing
positive relationship with the Heritage Foundation, working with him since
he was just seventeen years old, and recently had Kevin
Roberts on his show to promote Roberts's latest book.

Speaker 14 (02:04:49):
Which is why what Kevin Roberts did last week is
tragic and awful. He put out a statement the Heritage
Foundation didn't just stand by Tucker Carlson. Kevin instead said
openly and repeat that Tucker Carlson can do nothing ever
that will sever his relationship with the conservative movement. He
said that after an in defense of Tucker's glossing of

(02:05:10):
Hitler defender Nick Flentes, and he added that only members
of the globalist class direct quote a venomous coalition direct
quote subject to the dictates of someone else's agenda direct quote,
oppose Heritage's ongoing relationship with Tucker Carlson, which means that,
according to Kevin Roberts, apparently anyone opposing the ongoing mainstreaming
of Tucker Carlson is acting on behalf of a foreign power.

(02:05:34):
Kevin's statement is a betrayal of the Heritage Foundation's history
and principles, which is presumably by both Tucker Carlson and
Nick Foin, says loved It.

Speaker 4 (02:05:42):
Shapiro still expressed the need for an organization like Heritage
that focuses on ideas to over personal loyalty to grifters,
and expressed hope that Heritage could recover from this controversy
and speak out against the quote unquote moral rot that
threatens our future. But if no, Conservatives may need to
look for leadership elsewhere. And the cause of this moral

(02:06:05):
rot political horseshoe theory that is destroying both parties, with
the GOP being eaten by radicals.

Speaker 14 (02:06:14):
Like the Democratic Party, the Republican Party is being eaten
by its radicals. Many in the political class are too
cowardly to stand up. Apparently they're willing to play footsie
with Grouper's and hug Tucker Carlson out of fear of
somehow losing support. They've been bamboozled by the lies of
the ex algorithm and the TikTok metrics. The left followed
its radicals to electoral hell. Apparently many on the right

(02:06:35):
wish to do the same. Forget the morality, then, for
just a moment, let's be pragmatic. Here is the thing.
Americans hate Nick Flents' philosophy. They think it's trash. Republicans,
by the polling, think it's trash. Independence think it's trash.
Democrats think it's trash. And here's the other thing. Americans
hate Tucker Carlson's wandered anti americanism. Republicans think it's trash,

(02:06:58):
Independents think it's trash, Democrats think it trash. Americans are
not pro segregation, pro rape, anti woman, pro child marriage,
anti black, anti Jew, anti Indian, anti Latino, anti constitution,
pro hitler nut jobs like Nickquantas.

Speaker 4 (02:07:12):
You might want to tell that to I don't know,
Stephen Miller, Ben and like maybe half your employees Here's
Matt Walsh's own description for his most recent Daily Wire
podcast episode, quote, Smali tribal conflict has made its way
into multiple American states. A man is arrested for shouting

(02:07:34):
f the Jews at Dave Portnoy. Meanwhile, ANTIFO riots with
no consequence. White liberal radio host kisses Jasmine Crockett's feet, Ben,
the call is coming from inside the Daily Wire House.

Speaker 14 (02:07:51):
If Republicans decide to cower before the likes of neo
Nazis and their propagandizers, they deserve to lose, and they
will lose. Neo Nazi and they're propagandizers are not Republicans.
They're not America first, they're not Maga. They sure as
hell aren't conservative. These people aren't to my right, They're
not attached in any way to the fundamental principles of conservatism.

Speaker 4 (02:08:12):
I'm sorry, Ben, but they are. They are in the
Mega White House, they are on TV, on Fox News.
They're getting more views than you are on TikTok and
fucking rumble. Many have either worked for you or still
work for you, and you've been completely fine with all
of that as long as they've been sufficiently pro Israel.

(02:08:35):
Here's a Ben Shapiro tweet from September seventeenth, twenty fifteen,
and Culture tweets read Jews awful, nonsensical, and Culture is
also super pro Israel and has always been so I
won't lose sleep. I never thought the leopards would eat
my face, sobs conservative podcaster who voted for the leopards

(02:08:59):
eating people's faces party. The same day, Shapiro released this
forty minute video, Matt Walsh posted quote, Hat Buchanan didn't
just have good ideas, he was right about almost everything.
He's the most vindicated political figure of our lifetime.

Speaker 3 (02:09:19):
Unquote.

Speaker 4 (02:09:20):
If you want a fun, little ten minute side quest,
google Hat Buchanan, Nazi, Hat Buchanan, anti Semitism. Every few months,
these right wing ghouls get a harsh reminder of the
world that they have conjured into being. Remember the h
one B Visa debacle earlier this year, with Elon Musk
and Ramaswami upset that all of their racist fans don't

(02:09:43):
want to bring in immigrant workers after Elon funded a
campaign about how immigrants are stealing Americans jobs. As writer
John Gans put it, quote, the Geopie civil War is
between the vanilla fascists and the National Socialists unquote. At
the Republican You Wish Coalition fortieth anniversary summit, Congressman Randy

(02:10:03):
Fine proudly announced that he canceled an upcoming event with Heritage.

Speaker 15 (02:10:09):
I was supposed to do an event with Heritage next week,
I think on Wednesday.

Speaker 3 (02:10:13):
They don't know what I'm about to tell you. Right now,
we're canceling it.

Speaker 15 (02:10:21):
They will have no future in my office, and I
will be calling on all of my colleagues on the
Republican side to do the same. If those who support
Tucker Carlson want to see a venomous coalition.

Speaker 3 (02:10:36):
All they need to do is go look in the mirror.

Speaker 4 (02:10:40):
During that same speech, he boasted about.

Speaker 15 (02:10:43):
This, I've called for Zilron Mndami to be deported. The
only thing I want to see him running for is
his gate at JFK on the deportation flight to Uganda.

Speaker 4 (02:11:00):
First they came for the communists, Randy. I never thought
the leopards would eat my face, sobs Florida congressman with
Twitter pronouns listed as Hebrew slash hammer, who's a member
of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party. During the opening
to the Republican Jewish Coalition event. Ted Cruz addressed this

(02:11:21):
moment of fracture within the establishment right as a quote
unquote time of choosing, and said that in the past
six months he's quote seen more anti Semitism on the
right than I had in my entire life. This is
a poison, and I believe we are facing an existential
crisis in our party and our country unquote. Cruz later

(02:11:45):
shared a Free Press article on his comments. The CEO
of the Republican Jewish Coalition, Matt Brooks, pulled Jewish Insider
that he is quote appalled, offended, and disgusted that Kevin
Roberts in Heritage would stand with Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes,
that there would be a quotquote reassessment of our relationship
with Heritage in light of this, unquote. On November third,

(02:12:07):
Missouri Senator and J six's supporter Josh Hawley denounced Fuentes's
rhetoric as anti Semitic, telling Jewish Insider quote, that's not
who we are as Republicans, as conservatives. The question for
us as conservatives is are those views going to define
who we are? I think we need to say no.
As a conservative, but also as a Christian, there is

(02:12:28):
no place for anti Semitic hatred, tropes, any of that stuff.
Do we really want to be a part of what
we've seen happen on college campuses?

Speaker 3 (02:12:39):
Unquote.

Speaker 4 (02:12:40):
Senator James Langford of Oklahoma, the co chair of the
Senate Anti Semitism Task Force, told a Jewish Insider that
he was to quote a little surprised that Heritage jumped
out in support of Carlson and Nickfuentes to say, hey,
we want them in our camp after the statements that
were made. Heritage could have just sat back and not

(02:13:01):
said anything, but instead they chose to jump out on
their side.

Speaker 3 (02:13:05):
I don't get that.

Speaker 5 (02:13:07):
Unquote.

Speaker 4 (02:13:08):
Like Ben Shapiro and Josh Holly, James Langford related this
to a perceived by partisan crisis. Quote, the left has
seen an implosion of their party based on anti Semitism
rising in their party. I don't want to see the
same thing happen on the right. What I've tried to
be very clear on is that the new right is

(02:13:29):
now quoting an old wrong unquote. Senator Rick Scott of
Florida basically said the same thing. Quote the Democrat Party,
we already have a party that's for anti Semitism and
is against Israel. The Republican Party is going to stand
for Israel and we're going to stand against anti Semitism.
I don't think there's any question, unquote, as if the

(02:13:49):
Democrat Party is against Israel. And it's astonishing to watch
all of these senators cope with the results of years
of watering down akas and anti Semitism to simply reflect
any criticism of Israel as they're now facing of massive
resurgence of genuine anti semitism from known anti Semitic actors

(02:14:12):
on the right. Turns out it's way easier to police
campus anti genocide protests than deal with the anti semitism
spread on the massive platforms of Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson.
But not all senators are worried. Lindsey Graham, while speaking
at the Republican Jewish Coalition, was less worried about Tucker

(02:14:33):
Fuentes and the future of the party.

Speaker 7 (02:14:36):
So I just want to say I feel good about
the Republican Party. I feel good about where we're going
as a nation. We're killing all the right people, and
we're cutting your taxes. Trump is my favorite president. We've
run out of bombs. We didn't run out of bombs
in World War Two.

Speaker 3 (02:14:58):
So to those who worry about.

Speaker 7 (02:15:00):
These stupid interviews and far off places, don't worry. The
Republican Party has figured it out.

Speaker 5 (02:15:09):
When it comes to Israel.

Speaker 4 (02:15:11):
We're killing all the right people here at the Leopards
eating people's faces party. Surely the leopards will never eat
my or my friend's faces. On the night of November three,
Heritage president Kevin Roberts give a speech at Hillsdale College
on anti Semitism and cancel culture. He first talked for

(02:15:33):
two minutes about why he and Heritage will continue to
oppose cancelation and the importance of loyalty toward friends, and
defend it his previous statement by reiterating that if you
have a problem with someone's quote content, issues, or ideas,
then by all means go debate them unquote. But then
he admitted that his mistake, which was made quote unquote

(02:15:55):
with the best intentions, was focusing on the legitimate pro
problem of cancelation over other problems like anti Semitism. The
Roberts then immediately justified his rhetoric as an attempt to
reach out to the quote unquote several million young men
on the quote unquote far fringes of the right who

(02:16:16):
are increasingly anti Semitic, and.

Speaker 13 (02:16:19):
Our motivation at Heritage for making that statement was to
begin appealing even more than we have to those largely
disaffected young men who are looking for belonging and identity
by following the wrong people.

Speaker 4 (02:16:35):
This pseudo apology continues to frame this primarily as an
issue of cancelation. Who is asking to cancel Tucker? Roberts
acts as if there is nothing in between a lifelong
endorsement and total cancelation. After Robert's comments at Hillsdale College,
another member of the Heritage Anti Semitism Task Force, Attorney

(02:16:57):
Ian Spear, announced that he was leaving Hairge and Post
in a statement calling Robert's Hillsdale College speech a quote
strategic non apology that doubles down on loyalty to Tucker. Carlson,
muses about welcoming gropers and the groper curious into the movement,
and continues to gaslight everyone about cancelation when that clearly

(02:17:17):
isn't the issue. That same day, Tuesday, November fourth, Chris Demuth,
a Heritage Distinguished Fellow, also confirmed his resignation, and an
email leaped from the co chairs of the Heritage affiliated
National Task Force to Combat Antisemitism sent to task Force
members with a list of demands the Heritage President Kevin

(02:17:39):
Roberts demands including that he delete his initial video, apologize
to Jews and Christians who quote believe that Israel has
a special role to play both biblically and politically unquote,
a demand to condemn but not cancel Tucker Carlson's anti
Semitic content and statements, and host Shabbat dinners for the

(02:17:59):
Heritage interns and junior staff. To quote directly from this
leaked email addressing Roberts quote, you pointed out repeatedly that
we face a challenge in reaching disenfranchised young men who
are caught in the spells of Nick Fuentes and others.
To address this issue, specifically, we recommend hiring a visiting fellow,

(02:18:20):
one who shares mainstream conservative views on Israel, Jews, and
Christian Zionists, who would help identify strategies and tools to
win gen Z and beyond. It is clear that there
is an internal battle within the conservative movement over who
is to be included. The division between no Enemy to

(02:18:41):
the right versus a moral conservatism demands our attention a
conference that provides some guidelines to the movement on how
to best keep unity without needing to include the worst
among us unquote. Two days later, the National Task Force
decided to break ties with the Heritage Foundation, writing in

(02:19:01):
an email that it was quote important for us to
continue the work of the Task Force outside the Heritage
Foundation for a season, writing at this whole incident quote
exposed a serious problem within the conservative movement.

Speaker 3 (02:19:18):
It's been like this for a long time.

Speaker 4 (02:19:22):
They've just been so focused on campus activists protesting the
Palestinian genocide that they've missed the festering anti semitism spreading
across the right.

Speaker 3 (02:19:32):
Quote.

Speaker 4 (02:19:33):
The National task Force to Combat Anti Semitism will also
now expand our work to fight the rising scourge of
anti Semitism on the right, beyond our previous work combating
the pro Hamas movement on the left.

Speaker 2 (02:19:48):
Quote.

Speaker 4 (02:19:49):
On November eighteenth, the Task Force will be hosting a
conference in Washington on quote exposing and countering extremism and
antisemitism on the right, in partnership with the Conference of
Christian Presidents for Israel. It could happen here will return
after these messages. At this point, Heritage went into complete

(02:20:21):
damage control. Roberts apologized during a Heritage all hands meeting
last Wednesday, November fifth, quote I made a mistake, and
I let you down, and I let down this institution, period,
full stop.

Speaker 3 (02:20:34):
Quote.

Speaker 4 (02:20:35):
Roberts claimed that it was the since resigned chief of staff,
Ryan Nuhouse, who wrote the script for Robert's initial video
entirely himself and lied about the script being approved by
a handful of colleagues. Roberts called the use of the
phrase a venomous coalition a quote unquote terrible choice of words.

(02:20:56):
The Washington Free Beacon reported that Roberts said he was
willing to resign, but felt a quote unquote moral obligation
to repair the situation, and had told the Heritage Foundation
Board of directors quote I made the mess let me
clean it up. During the all hands meeting, Roberts explained
that the video came to be because Heritage was under

(02:21:17):
pressure to make a statement that Carlson was quote no
longer part of the conservative movement. Later in this meeting,
Roberts acknowledged that there could be a quote limiting principle
to no cancelation. Longtime Heritage Research fellow Robert Rector went
on a tie rade against Tucker and Fuentes, likening Tucker's

(02:21:40):
show to stepping into a lunatic asylum, and advocated for
a return of right wing cancelation.

Speaker 16 (02:21:48):
Because if you don't have boundaries on who you regard
inside the movement, the movement will destroy itself and it
will create a pr nightmare for everybody in it. And
the boundaries that he set forth William Buckley in the
early nineteen sixties were twofold. You have to expunge all
anti Semitism.

Speaker 3 (02:22:07):
All of it.

Speaker 16 (02:22:08):
But that's just part of it from the conservative movement.
The other is you have to expel the lunatics, Okay,
the lunatics who think that Eisenhower was a communist, Okay,
and a whole bunch of and we have them back now.

Speaker 3 (02:22:24):
Okay.

Speaker 16 (02:22:25):
They are both here back just the way they were
in nineteen fifty nine. And we have to go back
and set the general parameters. You say, oh, we don't cancel,
we do cancel. Did we cancel David Duke? Yes, you
don't even know who David Duke was. Probably most of you.
God's say, you know yes, do we cancel the John

(02:22:47):
Bird Society, Yes, okay, because they were harmful. Because if
you're they're in your movement, you look like clowns.

Speaker 4 (02:22:55):
This highlights so much of my frustration around this whole
controversy with all of the Conservatives at the Leopards Eating
People's Faces Party trying to say that obviously the leopards
who are eating people's faces aren't actually Conservatives.

Speaker 3 (02:23:08):
Despite the being part of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party,
Bircherism has achieved a near total capture of the modern
day Republican Party, especially under Trump. You can't remove the
John Birch Society element from the modern day Republican Party
without the whole party collapsing. They won.

Speaker 4 (02:23:27):
That's what the party is now. That's what Heritage's project
twenty twenty five is. Kevin Roberts responded to Rector's tirade
by continuing to advocate that Heritage should attempt to bring
some of Fuentes's audience into the conservative fold.

Speaker 13 (02:23:45):
But there's a segment of that audience who might be
with us, and they really are not Nazis and anti Semites,
then maybe we can eventually bring them into the fold.

Speaker 5 (02:23:55):
I think we have to think that way.

Speaker 4 (02:23:57):
None of these people can be allowed to distance themselves
from the leopards eating people's faces party, to quote a
write up from the right wing rag National Review, quote,
the Heritage staff meeting exposed something of a generational divide
within Heritage, as one staffer, who claimed to represent the
perspective of the foundation's younger employees, said that she did

(02:24:19):
not have a problem with roberts initial defense of Carlson
and wanted to make sure that the viewpoints of her generation,
who she said were generally more critical of Israel, would
still be welcome at Heritage. Unquote, The Heritage Tucker Fuentes
debacle has come in a time where the right was
already in the middle of debate over how to handle
infighting conservative anti cancel culture and the newly adopted principle

(02:24:43):
of no enemies to the right after years of suffering
from liberal led deplatforming campaigns.

Speaker 3 (02:24:50):
During the quote unquote woke era.

Speaker 4 (02:24:52):
This debate really came to a head last month after
the Young Republican pro Hitler racist group chat scandal, which
was subsequently brushed off by people like Matt Walsh and
Vice president jd Vance, who dismissed the texts, telling people
who are concerned about it to quote unquote grow up,
while referring to the chat as a college group chat,

(02:25:16):
calling the members kids and young boys, when the group
chat in question was made up of men in their thirties.

Speaker 17 (02:25:23):
Don't put things on the internet, like, be careful with
what you post. If you put something in a group chat,
assume that some scumbag is going to leak it in
an effort to try to cause you harm or cause
your family harm. But the reality is that kids do
stupid things, especially young boys. They tell edgy, offensive jokes
like that's what kids do. And I really don't want

(02:25:44):
us to grow up in a country where a kid
telling a stupid joke, telling a very offensive, stupid joke
is caused to ruin their lives. And at some point
we're all going to have to say enough of this, bs.
We're not going to allow the worst moment and a
twenty one year old's group chat to ruin a kid's
life for the rest of time.

Speaker 2 (02:26:04):
That's just not okay.

Speaker 17 (02:26:05):
Like, we live in a digital world. This stuff is
now etstin stone online. We're all gonna have to say,
you know what, no no, no, we're not doing this.
We're not canceling kids because they do something.

Speaker 2 (02:26:15):
Stupid in a group chat.

Speaker 5 (02:26:17):
And if I have to be the person.

Speaker 17 (02:26:18):
Who carries that message forward, I'm fine with it.

Speaker 3 (02:26:21):
To quote Matt.

Speaker 4 (02:26:21):
Walsh quote, I said a few weeks ago that we
all need to band together in the wake of Charlie's death,
and the answer I got back from a lot of
people on the right was basically, no, well, okay, then guys,
we'll just lose. Instead, the left will keep the unite
in front and defend their guys no matter what. Well,
we keep throwing each other to the wolves at every opportunity.

Speaker 3 (02:26:42):
Great plan.

Speaker 4 (02:26:43):
The left actually wants me dead, like specifically and personally.
They're the reason why I need security at my house,
why I worry for my children's safety. We've had to
make major changes to the way we live our daily
lives to account for this danger. So when I say
that I want to stop the fighting and unite against
this threat, that's the context. I'm sorry if the squabbles

(02:27:06):
among right wingers just kind of pale in comparison for me.
If you have the luxury to care more about that,
I envy you.

Speaker 3 (02:27:13):
I truly do.

Speaker 4 (02:27:15):
Last week, Magan Kelly interviewed Tucker and Shapiro across a
two day event where she asked both about the possibility
of uniting the Right.

Speaker 2 (02:27:25):
Is there any way that you and Ben Shapiro can
actually find your way to deton.

Speaker 3 (02:27:33):
I'm not against Ben Shapiro.

Speaker 12 (02:27:34):
He did like a forty minute thing yesterday calling me
dangerous and all this stuff. It's like, I didn't watch
it because why, but I got a lot of texts
about it, and it's like, I'm not I don't think
Ben Shapiro is driving a lot of this stuff. I
don't consider him like the world's greatest force for evil.
I don't feel that way at all. I don't actually
think about him ever. So I don't want to have

(02:27:55):
a war with Ben and Shapiro. I don't know if
does he really think that me doing interview in which
I explained that anti Semitism is wrong to one of
the lead purveyors of anti Semitism, but that somehow makes
me a Nazi?

Speaker 3 (02:28:06):
Like what is the argument here?

Speaker 2 (02:28:07):
I'm gonna ask him tomorrow night.

Speaker 3 (02:28:09):
But I don't even understand what the argument is.

Speaker 12 (02:28:11):
All I know is that the Right and I've been
on the right since before Ben was born, is acting
like the left in such an amazingly precise way that
I'm like, what the hell is going on?

Speaker 18 (02:28:24):
I agree with Tucker that the right is in fact
acting life the left by again massaging its radicals in
the name of some sort of faux unity sound because
again I'm not again trying to turn this personal is
a mistake, I know, but can it happened.

Speaker 4 (02:28:41):
During the fallout of the Tucker Fwenttes interview, far right
influencer Mike Cernovich said quote, there's a lot of bad
faith going on. So this is for those few of
you perplexed about the reluctance of mega people to ever
disavow anyone. We are old and we know it never stops,
will always demand more. Hence we draw a hard line.

(02:29:04):
It's not our job to be Internet cops. After trailblazing
this rhetoric for the new Right, now Walsh and Vance
find themselves in an uncomfortable position.

Speaker 3 (02:29:16):
Walsh due to.

Speaker 4 (02:29:17):
His employer Ben Shapiro, and Vance because of his future
political prospects. In the midst of the Fuenes controversy, Walsh
posted quote, we have a very short window of time
where we control Congress and the White House, and we
have the power to push our agenda forward. We're going
to waste this window fighting with each other. We're going

(02:29:39):
to squander everything. I'm furious, Honestly, I.

Speaker 6 (02:29:44):
Have just about had it with Matt Walsh. Matt, you
work for this fucking guy. Whose side are you on?
Already cut the shit, Matt Walsh. Every day on a show,
he goes on Twitter in his show and says, this
is all just gossip and drama, a gossip and drama.

Speaker 3 (02:30:01):
This is the war.

Speaker 6 (02:30:03):
Might not be the one you wanted, but this is
the one that's going on. So Walsh wants to refuse
himself from this and say, hey, man, I just care
about America. Hey fucker, it's happening in America right now.
Tucker's an American. Last I checked, this is going on here.
We didn't make anti Semitism the wedge issue.

Speaker 3 (02:30:22):
They did.

Speaker 6 (02:30:24):
We didn't make fighting Israel's wars the wedge issue.

Speaker 3 (02:30:27):
They did.

Speaker 6 (02:30:28):
And Walsh wants to get on Twitter and say, I
just don't want to talk about it. I just want
to keep taking a paycheck from the worst of the worst. Shapiro,
you gotta pick a side and nobody can let him
get away with this. As long as you're America First,
you need to be in his reply, saying no, Matt,
you work for Ben Shapiro.

Speaker 4 (02:30:49):
Cock Vance's only statement about this debacle reads quote, the
infighting is stupid. I care about my fellow citizens, particularly
young Americans, being able to afford a decent life. I
care about immigration and our sovereignty, and I care about
establishing peace overseas so our resources can be focused at home.

(02:31:12):
If you care about these things too, let's work together.
Compare that to Mike Pence sharing an article critical of
Fuentes by the Wall Street Journal editorial Board titled the
Rights New Anti Semites. Meanwhile, Nick Fuentes is bragging that
he has Vance caught in his groper squeeze, threatening to

(02:31:34):
send gropers to twenty twenty eight primary states to disrupt
Vince's campaign, much like the groper War of twenty nineteen
targeting TPUSA.

Speaker 6 (02:31:44):
He's getting squeezed because the gropers are on the one
hand saying, hey, listen, fat boy, we want America first.
You want to run for president. We want to hear
you say America first. And on the other side, he's
got his donors, and they're saying they're horrible anti Semites.

(02:32:05):
You have to disavow them. You have to forcefully condemn them.
Condemned talker, Condemn the gropers. Now advance, condemns the groupers.
We are deploying to Iowa. Raise your right hand. I
swear I'm gonna move to Iowa and New Hampshire and

(02:32:27):
Nevada and South Carolina and one primary after the next,
and we will go to every town hall. We will
go to every meet and greet where there's four or
five people, and we will be there, and we'll do
it for free.

Speaker 4 (02:32:43):
Nick has since laid out a more clear three year
strategy for his fans to shape the upcoming presidential primary
and infiltrate the next Republican White House. In some ways,
I think Ted Cruz is right. This has been a
time of choosing the only problem is that the choice
has already been made. The Fuentes interview is already Tucker

(02:33:06):
Carlson's fourth most popular video ever. Just two weeks after
its release. Fuentes's quote tweet of Shapiro's takedown video ratioed
Shapiro by one hundred and twenty thousand likes. Fuentes's last
ten live streams have had an average viewership of over

(02:33:29):
eight hundred thousand people on Rumble, beating Shapiro's average YouTube
of you count by hundreds of thousands. The New York
Times has put out seven pieces on Fuentes, both articles
and opinion since the Tucker interview, plus other related news
stories about Heritage and Tucker, which obviously mentioned Fuentes. Other

(02:33:52):
outlets from The Wall Street Journal to The Washington Post
have followed suit. CNN did a five minute and thirty
second segment on the followed of the Heritage Tucker Fwent
has situation and what it means for the future of
the Republican Party, and has since done more segments on
the issue, including one with Ben Shapiro. Multiple Twentes segments

(02:34:13):
have also aired on MSNBC.

Speaker 19 (02:34:16):
Here's a sampling for once Donald Trump has remained silent
on an issue, as well as Jade Vance, who is
reportedly personally close to Carlson. It also has opened up
an uncomfortable discussion for the GOP about what place people
like Nick Fwent does have within the MAGA movement.

Speaker 20 (02:34:31):
And now to the brewing war within MAGA over the
future of the American conservative movement. It comes as far
right influencer Nick Fuentes recently recorded a cordial interview at
the invitation of Tucker Carlson. That more than five million
people have viewed the latest op ed in The Los
Angeles Times by our next guest is highlighting this growing division.
Contributing writer Matt Lewis contends that some Trump loyalists are

(02:34:53):
now objecting to maga's quote white power element. Matt joins us,
Now he's an author, columnist and conservative writer. Matt, the
fact that we're even talking about a quote unquote white
power element is I think concerning on its face, But
this is also something that's persisted within MAGA over the
course of the last ten years. I mean, I remember
covering when Trump himself had dinner with Nick Fuentes at

(02:35:15):
the invitation of Kanye West just a few years ago,
November twenty twenty two at mar A Lago.

Speaker 3 (02:35:20):
Why was this not a conversation then?

Speaker 5 (02:35:22):
And what's changed now? Look, yeah, I think you're totally right.

Speaker 21 (02:35:26):
I mean, part of it is that Donald Trump has
actually been a really good friend to Israel.

Speaker 4 (02:35:30):
I never thought the leopards would eat my face, sobs
Conservative columnist who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
Even calling Fuentes a quote unquote white power figure shows
how outdated and out of touch the talking heads and
many journalists are. It's not the eighties anymore, white power?
What are you talking about? That's not what Fuentes is doing.

(02:35:54):
If you can't recognize that, you shouldn't be talking about it.
These talking heads are completely ill equipped to understand gen
Z politics, or the lack thereof. We saw this in
the reporting on Tyler Robinson in the past few mass
killing fandom school shooters. Here's MSNBC again.

Speaker 21 (02:36:12):
According to some sources at the Heritage Foundation, a lot
of their interns something like forty to fifty percent or
something agree with FOI this, which is really stunning if
you were around the conservative movement, let's say, in the
George W.

Speaker 4 (02:36:27):
Bush era, the fucking George W. Bush era, unbelievable. Nick
Fuenttes's politically vulgar obscenity is exactly what pushes his clips
into people's social media feeds, cutting through the dry neo
conservative boomer slop of older Republican content creators as Trump

(02:36:49):
two point zero continues and Maga becomes the establishment again.
It's not going to be cool to listen to Benny Johnson,
whoever's hosting the New Charlie Kirk Show, or Ben Shapiro,
to the extent to which listening to any of those
is even still cool or counter cultural. Fuentes doesn't have
this same problem. He can ride the cultural vibe shift

(02:37:14):
of the twenty twenty four election and still appeal to
the reactionary tendencies of some young men, but is outside
enough to continue benefiting from the gen Z thirst for
anti establishment populism. At the end of last month, there
was a short article in The Atlantic titled the firewall
against Nick Fuentes is crumbling. The white supremacist influencer is

(02:37:38):
entering the MAGA mainstream, And yeah, that's correct. The tact
agreement against talking about covering or platforming Nick has slowly
fallen apart the past few months. Google trends graphs of
search popularity has Nick Fuentes high above Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro,
or Canvas Owens, and considering Nick's newfound fame, he isn't

(02:38:00):
trying to slow down or moderate his views to appeal
to a bigger audience, and he doesn't need to. The
audience is coming to him to explain why his audience
is growing so much. It's not that he's gotten less
ideologically dogmatic as of recent It's that the Zoomer world
has caught up to the anti ideology behind Nick Fuentes,

(02:38:24):
the void of animosity that animates Fuentes, which is underneath
his gesturing to relics of tradition and culture to offer
a north star through the grievance inspired nihilism he actually embodies.
Nick Fuentes is a meme, His clips spread like a meme.
His groper movement is named after a meme, and Nick

(02:38:47):
is ready willing and able to seize the spotlight he
has been gifted to Nick. This controversy demonstrates that the
prestigious Heritage Foundation is territory ripe for groper infiltration.

Speaker 6 (02:39:01):
What this signifies is that Heritage, the accreditation institution, the
brain the priestly class that promulgates the Republican dogma. If
that institution says that grouperism is up for debate, it's
on the table. It's not canceled. We should talk about

(02:39:23):
the ideas, and we should defend the people that defend
the groupers or talked to the groupers. It signifies that
one that place is a safe harbor. As I said before,
So a grouper could go to work at Heritage and
maybe feel welcome and comfortable, and he won't be fired.

(02:39:44):
And you might have a grouper at Heritage who is
going to be writing a policy paper about who knows
foreign policy, education, immigration. They might be considered like an expert,
and maybe they'll go on to be a legislative director
for a senator, and they might be writing laws for

(02:40:07):
the US government. It's conceivable if the President of Heritage
says Tucker is in the Big ten, then that means
that Tucker and Nick fwent to sympathizers are allowed to
be employed at Heritage, and thus they might be in
the position to determine the dogma. They can write the doctrine.

Speaker 4 (02:40:28):
Conservative writer Rob Dreer has claimed, based on DC contacts
and talking with gen Z staffers, quote, between thirty to
forty percent of the Zoomers who work in official Republican
Washington are fans of Nick Fuentes unquote, writing that this
is emblematic of a generation quote willing to revel in

(02:40:50):
transgressions such as they tear down the pillars of civilization
just for the fun of seeing those who have been
gate kept away breaching containment. The groper thing is real.
It is not a fringe movement in that it really
has infiltrated young conservative Washington networks to a significant degree unquote.

(02:41:13):
After the Young Republican racist group chat story dropped, Nick
Fuentez said on his show, quote, gropers are all over
the government, and everyone knows that there's gropers at Harvard,
There's grapers in all the Ivy League schools. I talked
to all of them. There's gropers in government. There's grapers

(02:41:36):
in every department, every agency.

Speaker 5 (02:41:40):
Unquote.

Speaker 4 (02:41:41):
There's no reason to believe Nick is exaggerating. This is
something he has advocated his followers do for years, and
stories like the Young Republican pro Hitler group chat are
evidence of this. Nick Fuentez is mainstream now. Nick Fuentez
is a legitimate part of the mainstream conservative movement. Even

(02:42:04):
if he doesn't become the quote unquote successor to his
longtime nemesis Charlie Kirk, Fuentes is already on course to
be the main figure to have gained the most from
Kirk's death and emerged advantageous. This has been it could
happen here.

Speaker 5 (02:42:23):
See you on the other side.

Speaker 3 (02:42:44):
This is it could happen here.

Speaker 4 (02:42:46):
Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the
White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you.
I'm Garrison Davis to Dame, joined by Mia Wong, James Stout,
and Robert Evans. This episode, we are covering the week
of November fifth to November thirteenth.

Speaker 2 (02:43:04):
That's how I feel about the week.

Speaker 4 (02:43:06):
Yeah, that's how you feel.

Speaker 3 (02:43:08):
Well.

Speaker 4 (02:43:09):
The shutdown is now over, the longest shutdown in US history.
Last weekend, eight Democratic senators caved on the shutdown, approving
a deal to reopen the government without extending the existing
Obamacare subsidies, gaining only a promise to have a Senate
floor vote on healthcare tax credits sometime in December, with

(02:43:33):
no indication given that this vote would pass the Chamber
and no commitment from Speaker Mike Johnson that he would
hold a vote in the House. None of the Democratic
senators had sided with the Republicans are up for reelection
in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 3 (02:43:48):
Yeah, and I think that suggests pretty clearly that this
was orchestrated in stage by the Democratic Party as a whole.
You don't have Oh, we picked eight specific people you
can't vote against in the next cycle.

Speaker 5 (02:43:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:44:00):
Yeah, it was very clearly just stage managing.

Speaker 4 (02:44:02):
Specifically with the Schumer being somewhat in charge of the
Senate that Democrats, who likely would have been the person
orchestrating this, who himself did not vote for this deal,
was able to personally vote against it despite likely being
the one orchestrating this entire deal. Yeah, two of the
senators who signed on are retiring at the end of

(02:44:25):
their term. But even if we can't get healthcare through
this shutdown bill, you know what these Democrats did did
able to squeeze in there. Well, I don't know if
the Democrats squeezed it in there, but it is in there.
That's a Delta eight hemp THHC band which is inclusive,
horrible in the Senate funding bill, absolutely awfully.

Speaker 2 (02:44:47):
Yeah, of course they did a boy hattie and the
hamp industry has gotten angry about this. They're they're planning
to find it in twenty twenty six. I guess we'll
all see, because it takes a while to take effect.
But yeah, that is Uh, there's a lot of hemp
farms in Kentucky that are pissed off right now.

Speaker 3 (02:45:05):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (02:45:06):
So we can't get healthcare, but at least we also
can't get health THHC.

Speaker 3 (02:45:11):
So what if there wasn't bread or circuses? What would happen?

Speaker 2 (02:45:16):
Then?

Speaker 5 (02:45:17):
Wow, we would vote for the Democrats mere because they're
the least bad option. I think that's how that goes, right.
I've been on Blue Sky a few times this week.
I think I've got it pretty drilled in.

Speaker 4 (02:45:28):
Catherine Cortes Maestro of Nevada, Dick Dermoan of Illinois, John
Fetterman of Pennsylvania, Megghie Hassan of New Hampshire, Tim Kaine
of Virginia, Angus King of Maine.

Speaker 13 (02:45:41):
No.

Speaker 4 (02:45:42):
King's protest member just dropped. Katherine Cortez Mosto of Nevada,
and Jan Shaheen of New Hampshire speaking of the Senate
and the Oversight Committee, this whole Jeffrey Epstein things doesn't
seem to be going away, does it?

Speaker 2 (02:46:00):
Man? Like you, I was a skeptic about like, could
there be anything in there that's actually going to hurt Trump?
If he hasn't been hurt so far by everything that
is out there.

Speaker 3 (02:46:10):
And I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:46:12):
I guess I'm still a little bit of a skeptic,
but it's increasingly hard to be because like, how much?

Speaker 5 (02:46:17):
How could it be worse than this? Yeah, there's something
that isn't This happened to.

Speaker 2 (02:46:24):
Be worse than Donald Trump was at Jeffrey Epstein's mansion
and walked into a glass door because he was so
busy oggling children.

Speaker 5 (02:46:34):
The fact that this is what they released to distract
you from the stuff they don't want to release, well, there.

Speaker 4 (02:46:39):
Is one the Democrats, oh, to be fair, well both
This was the emails they were able to subpoena from
Jeffrey Epstein's estate as a part of the Oversight Investigation
into the federal government's investigation of the Epstein files. Yesterday,
the Oversec Committee released this batch of files related to
the Epstein investigation, mostly of note a series of emails

(02:47:01):
from about twenty eleven to twenty nineteen, including one from
Epstein written to Maxwell from twenty eleven quote, I want
you to realize that the dog that hasn't barked is Trump.
Victim redacted named victim spent hours at my house with him.
He has never once been mentioned, police chief, etc. I'm

(02:47:22):
seventy five percent there unquote. In a short email exchange
from December twenty eighteen, an unknown individual sent Jeffrey Epstein
this message quote, it will all blow over. They're really
just trying to take down Trump and doing whatever they
can to do that, with Epstein replying yes, fix, thanks,
it's wild because I am the one able to take

(02:47:44):
him down. Whatever could he mean by that?

Speaker 5 (02:47:48):
Yeah, who knows.

Speaker 2 (02:47:51):
There's no way to tell. There's absolutely no way to tell.

Speaker 5 (02:47:54):
If you are currently in high school English class and
people tell you you will not be able to make
me millions of dollars if you're unable to use grammar,
punctuational capital letters correctly. That that appears not to have
been an impediment to Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 4 (02:48:08):
Jeffrey Epstein's typing style is fascinating.

Speaker 3 (02:48:10):
It's awful.

Speaker 5 (02:48:11):
Well, it's extremely distinctive, which I suppose is a valuable
thing in itself.

Speaker 4 (02:48:17):
No, it's it's it's fascinating, But I mean there's a
lot of different emails of note. A twenty nineteen email
from Epstein to Michael Wolfe quote victim mar al Largo redacted.
Trump said, he asked me to resign, never a member.

Speaker 3 (02:48:32):
Ever.

Speaker 4 (02:48:33):
Of course he knew about the girls, as he asked
Glaine to stop unquote, which, by the way, the way that.

Speaker 3 (02:48:40):
I've been I've been seeing that quote passed around is
just that he knew about the girl's part, which makes
it a little bit technically ambiguous as to what he's
talking about. But the second part being as he asked
just Lane to stop. Oh, that's as blatant as it
could possibly be. Right, what Epstein's saying there is really clearer.
The main thing that's clear from this exchanges, at the

(02:49:01):
very least, the kind to which Trump was very aware
of Epstein's activities.

Speaker 2 (02:49:08):
Yeah, yeah, well, in which everyone was not just fucking
Donald Trump, but like the Obama Whitehouse's chief legal counsel
from twenty eleven twenty fourteen, right, who he messaged with
regularly and seems to have been flirting with him, Right,
she seems to have been into him. And they're all

(02:49:30):
just kind of casually or he is with them casually
joking about like being a pedophile.

Speaker 3 (02:49:36):
Yeah, there's emails from Steve Bannon here, who he's just
chatting with like emails a peer keel at one point.

Speaker 4 (02:49:43):
The Steve benn In exchange is from twenty nineteen from
Jeffrey Epstein talking about a recent state visit message Prince
Andrew and Trump today too funny. Another reply from Epstein
call Prince Andrew's accuser came out of mar A Lago

(02:50:04):
and response from Bannon can't believe nobody's making you the
connective issue Jesus Christ d wild wildly blatant stuff. In
exchange from twenty fifteen from Michael Wolf to Jeffrey Epstein.
I hear CNN is planning to ask Trump tonight about
his relationship with you, either on air or in scrum. Afterwards,

(02:50:29):
Epstein replied, if you were able to craft an answer
for him, what do you think it should be? Wolf
responded to that quote, I think you should let him
hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the
plane or to the house, then that gives you a
valuable pr and political currency. You can hang him in
a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you,

(02:50:51):
or if it really looks like he could win, you
could save him generating a debt. Of course, it is
possible that when asked, He'll say, Jeffrey's great guy and
has gotten a raw deal. It's a victim of political correctness,
which is to be outlawed in a Trump regime.

Speaker 5 (02:51:06):
Managin putting that in writing to a Gmail address.

Speaker 3 (02:51:09):
Gmail is fast is a fascinating choice by Epstein.

Speaker 5 (02:51:13):
Yeah right, yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:51:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:51:15):
Also the fact that every goddamn one of these messages
ends with scent on my iPad? Is is it's just
constantly amusing sent to my iPhone? Yeah, there are always
like two extra spaces between sentences, Like you can tell
they're old people typing on iPads a lot of the
time with their fucking clumsy ass fingers.

Speaker 6 (02:51:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:51:34):
Yeah, it's beautiful. It's beautiful.

Speaker 5 (02:51:37):
Tech sa is huge.

Speaker 3 (02:51:39):
Some really disturbing exchanges from Epstein and a man named
Lendon Thomas Junior, with Epstein saying would you like a
photo of Donald and girls in bikinis in my kitchen?

Speaker 2 (02:51:51):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (02:51:51):
Bro, Hawaiian tropical girl Lauren Petrella. Epstein then sent a
link displaying midge of a woman quote my twenty year
old girlfriend in ninety three that after two years I
gave to Donald unquote.

Speaker 3 (02:52:09):
One thing I want to note here is that Lennon
Thomas Junior. Yeah, baby, long long time journalist at the
New York Times. And he's just handed this financial journalist. Yes,
so he couldn't do anything with it. He could do
nothing with it, obvious. Oh, he's a financial journalist.

Speaker 2 (02:52:25):
He can't report on what financier Jeffrey Epstein tells him
about Donald Trump walking into a glass door because he
was oggling naked children a Jeffrey Epstein's mansion. That's a
thing that Jeffrey joked about to him, and The New
York Times never printed.

Speaker 3 (02:52:43):
Yeah, in twenty sixteen they had this.

Speaker 11 (02:52:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:52:48):
Yeah, there's a tendency and I understand why to get
sort of burned out on this right to be like,
oh my god, it's more Epstein news. But we should
be furious about this. Yeah, this was you know what
we have. And this isn't even the stuff they're trying
to hide, right, This isn't the Epstein files. This is
just the emails that the Oversight Committee has been able
to get right. And it suggests very plainly that we

(02:53:10):
are ruled by a group of pedophiles. And I refuse
to call them a cabal because cabal implies that they
work in the shadows. They were not. The entire ruling
class knew this was going on openly, and they're joking
about it. Yeah, they don't care. Yeah, they think it's funny.

Speaker 4 (02:53:25):
There's this exchange from twenty seventeen between Jeffrey and an
unknown individual where Jeffrey says, you are welcome at my
house always and more private. The person responds, very well,
just send me the address again and the code to
the door so I can get to the second floor
and send me the day and time. Thanks, Jeffrey said
ten pm. Should I bring special cake from New York?

(02:53:48):
The unknown individual responded yes, and then once they arrived,
they sent the message quote I'm at the door, but
I will wait for my time. I don't want to
come early to find Trump in your house to laughing emojis,
twenty seventeen.

Speaker 3 (02:54:04):
Christ.

Speaker 5 (02:54:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:54:06):
And the reason they're doing this, right, the reason they're
they're so blatant about this reason they all think it's
so funny. The reason they're just doing this over completely
unencrypted email in a way that like someone planning a
completely legal protest where you stand outside of a building
with signs right, would not plan it like this. The
reason they're doing This is that these people and men

(02:54:28):
like them have been ruling this country for five hundred
years in an uninterrupted line from Columbus's fucking crew through
on Hispaniola, through Jefferson and Sally Hemmings like to Epstein
is an uninterrupted line. They think that they are completely
invincible and that no one will ever challenge them, and
you know, maybe maybe they're fucking right. For all of

(02:54:49):
the sort of moaning and complaining about woke censorship and
me too in cancel culture, these people never shot the
fuck up ever at any point. All of these people
are running around to their fucking Epstein conferences taking a
bunch of money talk about eugenics.

Speaker 2 (02:55:01):
Well, and that's I mean, there was some fun stuff
about that in here too, because he was emailing with
Lawrence Krauss. Less eugenics and more hatred of women where too,
Like there were very funny emails where Kraus was being like,
you know, I'd made a comment in a speech that
half of all the IQ in the world comes from women,

(02:55:22):
but they're more than half the population. Ha like a
lot of just like casual. It's a really interesting insight
into how people at kind of the highest levels of
finance and government and just wealth in general, and in
media like communicated with each other during this period of time.
I'm sure it's different now because people are even less

(02:55:43):
good at writing, but yeah, it's a useful. It's a
snapshot that we don't get anywhere else of like this,
this chunk of the I mean talking about that fucker
at the New York Times, who, by the way, was
shitcan in twenty nineteen for soliciting donations from Jeffrey Epstein
and not informing them of his personal relationship. But again,

(02:56:04):
the Times never published anything based on their conversations. It's
the same group of people who have been telling us
every issue that like it might changentally be connected to,
like transitioning is newsworthy, and it's incredibly newsworthy if this
like official at a college might have plagiarized once in

(02:56:27):
their childhood but or in their youth. But like, it's
not newsworthy at all to talk about the possible future
president walking face first into a glass door because he's
staring at naked children in a pedophile's mansion.

Speaker 3 (02:56:41):
This is the period. This is the period with they
were running stories about the food at Grinnell College. Yeah,
and you can and you know, And there's another I
think part of this too, where if you look at
these things, you can find these people all complaining about
me too. Right now, you can find these people all
doing their sort of like, oh, these are all those
same people who do all of the like oh, like
we're the bold truth tellers, blah blah blah, we're being

(02:57:03):
censored by like cancer culture. I want to take a
stab at the question that these that you're actually not
allowed to ask, you know. And what I say you're
not allowed to ask is these people don't want you
to ask. All the fucking hedge fund manage CEOs, all
the senators, all the presidents, every one of these fucking
files does not want you to ask a simple question.
Why do we have a ruling class? Like we gave
them five hundred years of running this continent and do

(02:57:26):
you know what they produced again? Five hundred years of
uninterrupted pedophiles. Right we are we are on we are
on year five hundred of this from like Colabus, Jefferson
to Epstein, the Trump right, So why do we have this?

Speaker 2 (02:57:39):
That's just not how people people. No one's going to
a store or to the politics store or heading out
to vote and voting for another year of the pedophile
ruling class. People don't really think. People don't tend to
think about it that way, and in part they don't
because the ruling strata of the United States has not
portrayed itself in the same unbroken way right like it

(02:58:02):
very much makes an effort not to in public. And
there's an extent to which it is. It's certainly different
than like the old aristocracy of the British and the
landed gentry that ruled the British Empire. It's not exactly
the same, but it is like the same kind of
people and in a lot of cases the same families
that continue to control large amounts of wealth and inherent

(02:58:24):
political power. I mean, there's another fucking Kennedy who seems
like a nice kid getting into politics just as we speak, right,
I don't know. I think I feel like we'll have
a dedicated episode on more of the Epstein stuff. And
there's an extent to which I keep thinking about that,
like bitten community, where it's like no one's on the
other side of this issue that's listening to this podcast.

(02:58:45):
Everybody's very angry about the pedophilia everybody's very angry about
all of this stuff, and I have mostly been interpreting
it through just like laughing over the last day or two,
which is bad because it's like really bad stuff. You
shouldn't just do that it, But like what else? What
other reactions? Like you can pick and choose whatever you do.

(02:59:06):
I think to your point, Mia, however you react to this,
it's not going to change anything, right, yeah, Like so fine,
it hasn't.

Speaker 3 (02:59:12):
Yeah, well, but I mean, okay, I don't think that's
completely true. You can watch how just like pissed off
and scared these people were about like about me too, right,
and like you can you can go listen to Bannon
a couple of weeks ago talking about how if they
lose the election, like we're all going to prison. Yeah right,
like these people are like concerned about even like me too,

(02:59:34):
which was a fairly milk toe like it wasn't like
a particularly radical feminist movement right now, and these people
were losing their fucking minds about it. And you know,
like we we have the potential to organize feminist movements
that can actually do things about this shit, Like we
are capable of building new feminist movements we did one
not that long ago that was a big part of

(02:59:55):
this administration collapsing the first time, and we can do
it again.

Speaker 2 (03:00:01):
I'm not saying there's no point in fighting them. I'm
just saying, like your reaction the moment to the epstein
Leagues doesn't matter as much as is this going to
Is this going to cause any kind of like long
term resistance to the administration? Is this going to? And
maybe it will, But like I guess the thing that

(03:00:21):
I'm curious about is like what what is what are
what are we doing to try and make this matter? Right,
Because like that's that's where I am.

Speaker 3 (03:00:31):
Yeah, But the answer to the question is this going
to matter? Is also something that every single one of
us decides, right, because if we all just do nothing,
then yeah, nothing, nothing will happen.

Speaker 8 (03:00:42):
Right.

Speaker 3 (03:00:43):
If we go mobilize and we go do things to
resist these people, we intensify the things we're already doing.
If we start doing new things, if we start doing
new sort of feminist insertioncies, right then things can change.
But if we don't, they're not going to and we're
just going to have another five hundred years with these
pedophiles ruling everything.

Speaker 2 (03:01:02):
Yeah, I mean, I think that it's probably more a
matter of like, this is likely to shift more people
away from the GOP, at least in the immediate future.
I don't think in the long term. I don't know
that you don't build a coalition off of this, because
the dims certainly aren't trying to you at least get
this like wider awareness of where the real problem was.

(03:01:26):
But I just don't know.

Speaker 4 (03:01:27):
I think it's going to be utilized electorally by some
Republicans to eventually decouple the party from Trump. Yes, after
this becomes more and more evident, and they're looking for
a way to get themselves out of becoming the Trump Party,
and turning on him specifically through this issue will probably
be one of the methods in which they do that.
And you see that with some people like even like
margin Ta Lagree and Lauren Bobert.

Speaker 2 (03:01:49):
Yeah, Rod Drere is writing about some stuff adjacent to this, Right,
these are the guys who think Vance needs to lead
the party away from Trump.

Speaker 4 (03:01:58):
Yeah, yeah, and are already viewing Trump as a sort
of lame duck presidency insomuch is that he's kind of
failed to do a whole bunch of stuff especially on
the economy in the past year. The midterms are about
to get up and running. That's going to take up
a whole bunch of energy that everyone expects the Dems
to do very well in the midterms and then prevent
Trump administration in the final two years from getting much

(03:02:19):
of anything done through blocking things in Congress. And that's
what a lot of people on the far right are
like taking this situation as as basically January to now
was the second Trump administration. This is the most that
they're going to get done, and now it's kind of
all downhill from here, yea, and they're looking far beyond

(03:02:42):
Trump now.

Speaker 5 (03:02:43):
Yes, I want to tack back to the Times real
quickly before we move past it. Like Garrison, some of
those emails you read, if I'm not mistaken, were like

(03:03:04):
in December of twenty eighteen.

Speaker 4 (03:03:06):
Right, Yeah, the twenty eighteen ones are Epstein saying I
am the one able to take him down.

Speaker 3 (03:03:16):
That one from twenty eighteen.

Speaker 5 (03:03:18):
Yeah, okay, So let's talk about I mean, the week
before the midterms and all week after midterms in terms
of Times front page stories. Right the week before the
midterms to twenty eighteen, the Times ran twelve stories on
the quote unquote migrant caravan on the front page ran
twenty fourth. Oh yeah, I remember that, right the week
after it ran five. The migrant caravan continued to grow

(03:03:43):
as more people are I was physically present in Tijuana
right as the caravan was arriving, and I continued to
be present for the rest of that year. The caravan
con teamed to grow, more people continue to come. Right,
this is and a choice was made not to cover
the Epstein stuff that Roberts spoke about. Right, A choice
was also made at that time to really like, this

(03:04:04):
caravan was not huge. It was large, but it wasn't
a hugely remarkable number of migrants, and it occupied twelve
front page stories during that one week before the election. Right,
I don't know how else I could say this, Like
they're literally saying look over there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:04:21):
Well, and I guess that's part of my fear gear
is I think that is accurate as to how things
are going to play out, and that the DIMS will
have a good mid term and probably pretty good results
in the twenty twenty. That's less clear to me, you know,
because in part, if the DIMS have a really good
twenty twenty six, and then things continue to get worse.

(03:04:42):
Maybe we'll blame the party. I don't know who's going
to show up on the you know, after Trump that
that's all a little unclear. But what worries me is
that in the mix of all that we're going to
get away from and I think this is almost inevitable
actual accountability for these people, Like, I don't four seed
they're being strong punished. I foresee things moving forward, possibly

(03:05:05):
in a way where they get quite a bit better,
but not where I don't see the likelihood of these
people getting punished. And I don't know that somebody running
in twenty twenty eight on a platform of we're going
to hang these people in the street would win, But
I think it's worth a shot.

Speaker 4 (03:05:23):
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty far off, I really know. Yeah,
I'm not sure how much this will still be relevant
by then. I mean after Mike Johnson for seven weeks
delayed the swearing in of Arizona representative at Elite Gorihalva,
she was finally sworn in yesterday on Wednesday and became

(03:05:46):
the two hundred and eighteenth required signature on the discharge
petition to force a floor vote for the full release
of the Epstein files. Johnson says this vote will happen
next week. During this process, Trump held an emergency meeting
in the Situation Room with Pam Bondie, Todd Blanche, and

(03:06:09):
Cash Bettel to convince Lauren Bobert to take her name
off the petition, which would then result in it not
being complete and forcing the vote. They are certainly in
a panic over this. The whole White House team is.
This morning Thursday, Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt put out an
amazing post on x the Everything app quote. If not

(03:06:31):
for the Jeffrey Epstein story, CNN would be forced talk
about how Chuck Schumer and the Democrats got shellacked by
President Trump and Republicans in the government shut down fight.
It's clear this is another Democrat and mainstream media hoax
fueled by fake outrage distract. When the President's wins, Republicans
don't be fooled. President Trump will remain focused on making
America affordable again. If not for the Jeffrey Epstein story.

Speaker 2 (03:06:55):
It was if not.

Speaker 4 (03:06:56):
If not, aren't we all saying that if the president
was a pedophile, then everyone would love him.

Speaker 2 (03:07:07):
If not for the child molestation, he'd be allowed to
live in this neighborhood.

Speaker 4 (03:07:13):
I want mentioned the Macon Kelly thing in terms of
in terms of Republicans reacting to this and trying to
find a way to sort through. And some of them
are manufacturing like consent, like making Kelly here, and others
I think are quite ready to just throw Trump to
the wolves.

Speaker 3 (03:07:27):
Frankly, Yeah, there's a so Megan Kelly, I'm not gonna
play the clip from you all because having to listen
to making Kelly's.

Speaker 4 (03:07:33):
I've listened to four hours of Makeing Kelly this week.

Speaker 5 (03:07:37):
Mia.

Speaker 3 (03:07:37):
Yeah, let's know more. But she has this whole line
about how she knows someone who's close to the case
and has all the details and that person thinks that, Yeah,
her exact quote is, I think there's a difference, a
difference between a fifteen year old and a five year old.
I mean she literally is talking about how, oh he
was into the he wasn't into four or five year olds.
He's talking about She says this and I quote barely
legal types, and then she says fourteen or fifteen, which

(03:08:00):
no legal Just pause, pause right there, fourteen fifteen not legal.
I think there was a conversation to be had about
the descent, which the barely legal like just turned eighteen
shit is to a large extent of product of like
American pedophil culture and misogyny. But like, those are fourteen
and fifteen year olds, and this is the like you know, this,
this is the defense of these people are are dragging

(03:08:21):
out for this, which is that oh well he wasn't
like literal like like five year olds. So actually it's
like they're they're they're they're doing the libertarian thing. It's like,
isn't it be a file or whatever? The fuck?

Speaker 4 (03:08:33):
I think a lot of this is also the result
of like the QAnon brained idea that like they're four
year olds and like, no, this is mostly like really
young teenagers. That's mostly what these guys are into and
making Kelly specifically was talking about Epstein.

Speaker 5 (03:08:45):
This is even really young.

Speaker 2 (03:08:46):
They're six fifteen to seventeen year old girls.

Speaker 13 (03:08:50):
Right.

Speaker 2 (03:08:50):
That's the part of the problem is that a huge
number of not just men, but largely men in this
country don't see fifteen to seventeen year old girls as children.

Speaker 3 (03:09:00):
Which they are.

Speaker 2 (03:09:02):
And yeah, that's really a pro Yeah, it's.

Speaker 3 (03:09:06):
Just struggling, just incredible structural misogyny that's just yeah, And
so that's what they're sort of trying to bake all
of this stuff as now. And I guess we'll see
whether it works or not, just because.

Speaker 4 (03:09:18):
Yeah, I don't think this line from Megan Kelly is
going to be very a large scale of Butbophelia. I
don't think it's I don't think it's gonna work. I
I her motivations for this are I'm sure not great.

Speaker 3 (03:09:33):
Now.

Speaker 5 (03:09:33):
You don't know that, Garrison, And I think in some
way she is pulling from like this like a QAnon
brained idea, right, that these are a whole bunch of
like basically infants.

Speaker 3 (03:09:40):
Yeah, well, what else do you want to talk about?

Speaker 2 (03:09:45):
Let's talk about January sixth and the terrorisms.

Speaker 3 (03:09:51):
Sure, I love no either of those things.

Speaker 2 (03:09:55):
I I Garrison, you love terrorism.

Speaker 4 (03:09:58):
I had a fun day, No, I honestly I had.
I had a great January sixth.

Speaker 2 (03:10:02):
That's good.

Speaker 4 (03:10:03):
That was a really fun morning for me.

Speaker 2 (03:10:04):
That was a hoot of a day. Boy howdie when
they breached the capital doors? Great time? Well windows first,
but yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (03:10:12):
Think you mean when the FBI breached the Capitol.

Speaker 5 (03:10:15):
Stores for sure.

Speaker 2 (03:10:16):
Yes, So this all takes me to the sub stack
of a guy named Rod Dreyer. Rod Is, he wouldn't
call himself a fascist. But if you ever bring up
is this specific fascist from history bad, he'd say, well,
not compared to the communists they stopped right. That's the
kind of conservative conservative that Rod is.

Speaker 3 (03:10:36):
He's basically friends.

Speaker 2 (03:10:38):
Yeah, he's basically friends of Victor or Body.

Speaker 5 (03:10:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:10:41):
Didn't he just write a piece called our women ruining
the workplace?

Speaker 2 (03:10:45):
He's written several like that. I think he's just like
the people I'm talking about. Was when he came out
with on November tenth, called what I Saw on herd
in Washington, and he was at a meeting with President
Vice President James Darryl Vance, not his stolen James Dolan Vance.
That's a good James Dolan. You're a real New Yorker. Now,
gare are you pissed about the Knicks permanently?

Speaker 5 (03:11:07):
Now?

Speaker 4 (03:11:09):
Basketball's too masculine for me.

Speaker 2 (03:11:10):
So he came out with this article about this this
meeting that that Vance had with Victor Orbon and some
other Republican luminaries. And for a little bit of context,
Dreyer is, again, you wouldn't call him an anti trumper.
You'd call him a guy who thinks that Trump is
going to doom the right and doom the right to
fascism unless jd Vance can save them. He actually has
a recent His most recent column is basically jd Vance

(03:11:31):
is the only person who can save the right wing
from fascism. And he's a weird dude who reads a
lot of Hannah Arnt but absolutely does not understand her.
But this article of his based on this meeting is
useful for a couple of reasons. One that I'm sure
Gary and I will talk about more detail later is
Drere estimates in here that thirty to forty percent of

(03:11:51):
the Zoomers who are working for the Republican Party in
DC are Groyper's aka fans of Holocaust DENI are and true? True?

Speaker 5 (03:12:01):
Yeah? Is that?

Speaker 2 (03:12:02):
What is that what eugen z kids are saying for truth? Garrison?

Speaker 5 (03:12:05):
Yeah, that's okay, Okay, that's truth. I can't keep it
a great track of that's shit anymore. Truth nuke Great,
that makes sense, Duke. Sure, Yeah, they're all grapers, or
at least forty percent are.

Speaker 2 (03:12:17):
Thirty thirty forty percent And I actually eat number one
he Dreyer, He's not someone that I I think just
makes up nonsense. I think he's like wrong because his
brain is bad. But I I he provides some backup,
including interviews and conversations he had for this, and this
is consistent with other information coming out of the beltweigh.
I think he's probably pretty close to the accurate number here, right,

(03:12:38):
thirty to forty percent seems believable. Gare, I think you're
more or less in the same area there, Garrison is
thirty great, Yes, that's yes, that's that's what I meant. James,
thank you for the most charitable reading of my sentence there. Now,
the thing that I thought was the other thing that
I thought was interesting from this article is because he's

(03:13:00):
he's trying to talk about why the media, which he
sees as an inherently left wing organization, even though we
just talked about all of the carrying water for Jeffrey
Epstein while attacking trans people, shit they did.

Speaker 4 (03:13:11):
It's it's it's it's a it's a right wing slash
liberal organization. I would would, yeah, you have to, you
have to get over some of his aspects of phrasing.
But he's talking about why. One of some of the
reasons why he thinks that the institutions in our society,
like Zoomers do not trust them. And this is where
I think he's on the money, because I think that
the reason why so many gen Z Republicans, like Republican staffers,

(03:13:35):
are gropers is what he gets at, which is that
they're having the same problem as the rest of gen Z.
They're just approaching it from a fascist standpoint. But they
all are starting from the same point, which is I'm fucked.
My generation is fucked. Yeah, there's no jobs, I'm not
going to own a house. The climate is screwed.

Speaker 2 (03:13:51):
Like they're blaming the Jews for it, but they're they're
starting at the same plan. It's school shooter politics, right,
school shooter politics. Yes, some people understand this and then
decide to do a school shooting. These guys decide to
get jobs in Washington. Yes, but it's the same psychea
behind the mechanism, exactly right. And I'm going to read
a quote from Dreer's article and then we'll move past

(03:14:11):
him to the primary thing I wanted to talk about here,
and this is him talking about, you know, why these
Zoomers don't trust the system and want to destroy everything.
The institutions of our society as they see it, have
lied and light and light and still lie. They still
lie in many ways about race, refusing to be honest
about black crime. They lie about COVID, They lied about
males and females, and they force the insanity of gender
ideology on us. All the military light about I Rock

(03:14:33):
the universities is just the military, just the military rod.
The universities embraced and enforced ideologies of lies. The Catholic
churchs lie about sexual abuse and the connection to the
prevalence of sexually active gay priests. Exactly is that the problem?
Honeycoming institution. They lied about the benefits of mass migration
and diversity. They lied about Trump and Russia. They sure
didn't the political parties, in their corporate allies light about

(03:14:56):
what globals we need for ordinary people. The media have lied,
and they do about most things. This past week and
everybody was talking about the new report in Blaze Media
alleging that the mysterious January sixth pipe bomber was in
fact a former Capitol Police officer, the implications being that
the whole event was orchestrated by the deep state to
discredit Donald Trump. Maybe mainstream media are busy trying to
validate this reporting on their own. If The Blaze has

(03:15:17):
this wrong, they're going to be suited to oblivion, and
so will all the other media who amplify a false charge.
I can tell you that.

Speaker 15 (03:15:22):
No.

Speaker 2 (03:15:23):
All I can tell you is that nobody in the
MSM are talking about it as I write it, even
though it is an explosive story. People were in fact
talking about it.

Speaker 3 (03:15:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:15:30):
And in fact, before we could do this episode, The Bulwark,
which has both a website with articles and is a
podcast network, came up with an article by Will Sommer,
who used to write for The Journalist. Yeah, good journalist.
We took a bullying hat class together, I believe was
the post that he wrote for. At the time.

Speaker 4 (03:15:52):
He was like one of the leading QAnon experts for years.

Speaker 5 (03:15:54):
Yeah you student Dady beast Wassing for a while.

Speaker 2 (03:15:57):
Yeah, Daily Beast is I think where I knew him from.
And he wrote a really good article called The Blaze's
pipe on Bombshell appears to bomb and basically Dreer says here, well,
if the bit if the Blaze is wrong, they'll be
soon too oblivion. And the short answer is yeah, I
think yeah, because they absolutely named this lady and the
Capitol Police. To make a long story short, if you

(03:16:18):
don't want to read the whole Blaze article, you can
read the piece on the bulwark. You can read the
sections of it, or you can type the link to
the Blaze article into like archive dot org, so you
don't give from traffic if you want. It's not good.
It's the entire their entire claims that this particular woman.
And I am not going to name this woman because
I don't think she's the bomber, and I don't think

(03:16:40):
you've got name people as being a terrorist if you're
not sure they were. I will say that she's a woman,
and that she's a Capitol Police officer, or at least
now a former Capitol Police officer who is kind of
insinuated by the Blaze and has been absolutely taken up
by the right wing media immediately since to be a Now,
she got poached by the CIA right and that's taken

(03:17:00):
as like proof that she definitely did this. She's a
security guard at the CIA's she's not in the CIA.
I'm sorry, guys. She's a rent to cop for the CIA,
which is let's be fair, probably the highest rung of
rent to cop, Like, you know, you're taking a step

(03:17:22):
up as a rent to cop, but she's not. She's
not out there over throwing democracies yet.

Speaker 3 (03:17:29):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (03:17:29):
Maybe they fast track you once you're let's see a
security guard enough. But so the whole claim that the
Blaze is staking the reputation on because if you're paying
attention to like info wars, well not reputations their financial
solvency because info wars currently owes like a billion and
a half dollars for wrongly accusing people of having faked

(03:17:50):
match shootings and the depths of their own children. So
their argument that this lady has to be it is
based on they have some old footage of her, like
the jogging track, and there's a couple of clips from
the drugsraph they showed. But they're claiming that this Gate
analysis that they did between the Capitol bomber and this
woman is based on footage of her that they are
not publishing publicly. That's good so that you can verify it,

(03:18:12):
But that they say is ninety four percent. And they
talked to a Gate analysis expert and he did a
personal Gate analysis and he said it had be more
than ninety eight percent, so that means basically it definitely
was her because gate analysis is for sure real and
not one of the Every kind of forensic science is
a lie.

Speaker 22 (03:18:31):
Lie be even very good for flying shoes alone convicting
someone that we have fear of you data to show
that you shouldn't choose your running shoes of gate analysis,
let alone fucking.

Speaker 2 (03:18:45):
Yes, yes, there's many articles about how it may not
be the future of the shoe industry. You should certainly
shouldn't be hinging your publication's survival. I'm getting right that
somebody was a bomber ba.

Speaker 4 (03:19:00):
This is just the latest attempt by the right to
run this whole J six false flag conspiracy, which is
picking up a lot of steam. Like a few months ago,
the FBI released some information on how many agents they
had in the area during January sixth, and this led
many many conservative commentators to believe, Oh, look, the FBI

(03:19:20):
had just admitted that it was their agents that actually
started the riot and was most of the like rowdy,
rambunctious crew members and no. The specific wording on the
announcement or statement regarding the presence of agents at J
six was after after the insurrection had already started and
agents were sent there to keep it under control. That's

(03:19:42):
what it was referring to. And Cash Hotel released a
statement days later clarifying this, but of course that doesn't
pick up nearly as much traction as the original claims were.
So this whole game analysis thing is continuing on this,
this whole conspiracy theory about how the FBI and the
CIA staged all of January six to crush Trump and

(03:20:02):
remove him from power, and probably warns of a future
episode just on January sixth, conspiracy theories that have propagated
the past few months.

Speaker 2 (03:20:12):
Yeah, yeah, we probably, I mean, honestly, yes, but okay,
to continue with this. So gain analysis was half of
what their case lay on. The other half of the
case was interviews with a couple of different people, primarily
an FBI whistleblower, a former FBI agent who made a
claim that, like, yeah, we tied the woman this officer's

(03:20:36):
neighbor to a vehicle that like picked up the bomber.
This is not based on publicly available information. This is
based on the statements made by former FBI agent Kyle Seraphim,
who is now a right wing media personality of course,
and we're just trusting that this guy who is former
FBI agent trying to rebrand himself as an influencer, is
telling us the truth about all of this stuff that

(03:20:59):
they're not presenting us with. This is this is kind
of dressed up as ocent, but they're not actually providing
you with the information.

Speaker 4 (03:21:07):
There's no actual open source intelligence.

Speaker 2 (03:21:09):
You can't work back from there from because they're hiding
a lot of stuff.

Speaker 19 (03:21:13):
Right.

Speaker 2 (03:21:13):
There's a couple other things that Sommer notes and his
article here to make their case against the former Capitol
police officer. Baker was The author and co author Joseph H. Hannaman,
focused on a comparison between the officer's gates, some of
which was apparently captured in years old footage of her
playing soccer, and footage of the pipeop such from the
night of January fifth. Instead of using suspect footage released
by the FBI, however, the Blaze claims it used footage

(03:21:34):
from another source the article doesn't name. Critically, the Blaze
didn't release an actual video comparison or significant details of
the Gate analysis. Instead, it draws on the work of
a man the Blaze called a video sleuth, a little
known X user named Armatas whose online profile image is
a picture from the nineteen ninety eight role playing video
game Zeno Gears.

Speaker 4 (03:21:52):
Hell Yeah, Zeno Gears Great twigs Net video game.

Speaker 2 (03:21:55):
Yeah, You're not gonna get sued into oblivion for this shit.
The Blaze, I'm proud of you.

Speaker 5 (03:22:00):
Don't believe the people who published vance Bolt's probably last
interview would do this.

Speaker 2 (03:22:07):
Yeah, shocking shocking stuff. Now, to be again totally fair here,
Dreyer does not treat this with any sort of critical
thought whatsoever. But actually a bunch of the people critiquing
this have been on the right, and I where I
partially agree with Drer's I think it's a mistake that
the mainstream media has not dedicated more effort to busting

(03:22:28):
this immediately and to pointing out the weaknesses and stuff
like gait analysis immediately out the gate. So it does
kind of sound like they're ignoring it. I think they're largely.
I think largely this isn't getting covered because it's so
shady and bad and because it's dangerous to spread these
kinds of claims about a person.

Speaker 4 (03:22:45):
Sure, I mean, yeah, it's like it's like the Blaze.

Speaker 2 (03:22:48):
It's not even Fox News, right, there's already law enforcement
station outside this woman's house because of the number of
threats that you see. Yeah right, like like again, she
has ample claims for damages here.

Speaker 5 (03:23:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:23:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:23:01):
So a couple of the people who have come after,
one of them is after this article. One of them
is Julie Kelly, who's a right wing media figure and
is a major force in the January sixth conspiracy theory world.
And she is largely attacking the Blaze because she's doing
her own investigation into the who did the pipe bombing? Right,
So she's she's pointed out some very obvious problems. Why

(03:23:23):
don't you post that other video you have, right, why
don't you show the evidence of the gate analysis?

Speaker 15 (03:23:28):
Right?

Speaker 2 (03:23:28):
So she she's been attacking this, as has Joe Hoft,
who's co founder of the Gateway Pundit. Hell yeah, oh god, yeah,
great stuff. So there's there's people on the right talking
shit about this stuff. It's worth noting that when this
initially came out, Glenn Beck spent days beforehand hyping it
up and talking about how like this is the biggest

(03:23:49):
I think that he literally called it like the biggest
conspiracy in American history maybe, which is like Jesus Christ,
dream smaller, Come on, dude.

Speaker 5 (03:23:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:23:58):
But within like a day of the article actually coming out,
the Blaze added an editor's note, which is pretty damning.
An earlier version of this story said it appeared the
bombing suspect interacted with police after publication. A congressional investigator
with access to a camera angle that has not been
made public reached out and told Blaze News a person
similarly attired to the suspected bomber who comes out of

(03:24:20):
the alley and crosses the street towards the two Capitol
police vehicles is not the same person as the hoodie
clad pipe bom suspect walking down the alley just minutes earlier. Amazing,
wouldn't there gata analysis have shown.

Speaker 3 (03:24:30):
That amazing work.

Speaker 2 (03:24:32):
Wouldn't you have known that if gata analysis?

Speaker 4 (03:24:34):
This almost like you can't rely on GAINA analysis to
identified individuals.

Speaker 2 (03:24:38):
Yeah, it's almost like this is all bullshit. Anyway. I
largely did this just because fuck you, Rod Dreer. I like,
we covered this stupid ass story. Will Sommer covered this
stupid ass story and we made fun of it. Thank you, Will,
thank you the bulwark. This is what I've got. I've done.

Speaker 4 (03:24:56):
That Dreyer piece is also crazy and just in surreal.
Surreal beca as of how much of it is like
talking about how we as in the right, needs to
like re recalibrate, how we discuss the reality of like
complete Jewish control over our media, and how it's fine
actually because a whole bunch of various like ethnicities excel

(03:25:19):
in various skills and that's not weird. So it's not
weird that Jews control all the media. We shouldn't be
worried about this. And how how much of that piece
feels like it could have been written in like the
nineteen twenties. Yes, it's a crazy time. Capsule ooks yep. Anyway,
that's my opinions on the tree or.

Speaker 3 (03:25:38):
Substack piece anti semitism, for anti semitism, it's a great time.

Speaker 4 (03:25:43):
I mean sure, I mean you could have I would
have a slightly more complicated analysis of the piece than
just anti semitism, because true approaches that issue really oddly.
I don't think he's antisemitic. Frankly, I don't think he
thinks he's anti semitic.

Speaker 3 (03:25:57):
I don't think he thinks he is yeah, but it's
like I think that there's a difference between what he
believes about himself of what he's trying to do and
what he is doing.

Speaker 4 (03:26:06):
And sure, I mean I mean even even in the
way that the article is written, and like a lot
lot of it is yeah, I mean attacking a certain
type of anti Semitism on the right.

Speaker 2 (03:26:16):
Well, you guys know what Rod Dreyer would hate other
than an editor, I think he would.

Speaker 3 (03:26:21):
Actually love some ass.

Speaker 5 (03:26:38):
All right, we are back and uh, we're gonna do
some very brief immigration stuff and then we will play
the song you have all been waiting for and be
able to talk to you. The United States Conference of
Catholic Bishops based based based thank you get issue the
statement this week. It's about the strongest the nation you're

(03:27:00):
going to see from this entity of anything in a
political realm. Right.

Speaker 4 (03:27:05):
HOPEFULLYO has not been solved on this issue.

Speaker 5 (03:27:07):
No, yeah, he is unlike we saw it, like with
Bishop farm in San Diego, right, like who himself arrived
as in what they call an unaccompanied minor, right, a child,
a refugee. I'm going to read from the statement quote,
we are disturbed when we see among our people a
climate of fear and anxiety around questions of profiling and
immigration enforcement. We are saddened by the state of contemporary

(03:27:29):
debate and the valification of migrants. We are concerned about
the conditions in detention centers and the lack of access
to pastoral care. We lament that some immigrants in the
United States have arbitrarily lost their legal status. We are
troubled by threats against the sanctity of houses of worship
and a special nature of hospitals and schools. We are
grieved when we meet parents who fear being detained when

(03:27:50):
taking their children to school, when we try to console
family members who have already been separated from their loved ones.

Speaker 3 (03:27:56):
This isn't the usual based, based, based, based, based, based, based.

Speaker 5 (03:28:00):
And has got to got a crucifix. I guess they
haven't done this for like twelve years. Right last time
they did it about contraception, saying a Catholic church is
an organization that I agree with all the time. If
it's not, it's one that I disagree with most of
the time. But I still think this is important, right, Like,
this is an organization which has millions of followers in

(03:28:24):
the United States, many many Catholics around the world.

Speaker 3 (03:28:27):
A lot of Catholics.

Speaker 5 (03:28:28):
Yeah, this is an organization which therefore we should pay
attention to, right, And I think it is telling that
the work pope has not stopped with this and that
it seems like the vast mediority of bishops in the
United States are on his side.

Speaker 11 (03:28:43):
No, it's it's it is.

Speaker 4 (03:28:44):
It is pretty funny we have like a never Trumper,
nominally conservative, woke pope and the fact that he will
not blackdown on this issue and has has actually has
a number of statements on this the past the past
few weeks, and not softly worded statements either.

Speaker 2 (03:28:57):
Catholic priests have also been reasonably good on this issue.

Speaker 4 (03:29:01):
Yeah, it's important, especially because of how much these like
weird like fascist friendly treads are using Catholicism as like
a fashion statement.

Speaker 3 (03:29:11):
And Jdvans included.

Speaker 5 (03:29:12):
Yeah, I was gonna say, our vice president, have.

Speaker 4 (03:29:14):
The actual church be like frity freaked out by that.

Speaker 5 (03:29:19):
I think is good.

Speaker 4 (03:29:20):
It'd be worth if they were leaning into it, which
certainly some cardinals like want when they were doing their selection.

Speaker 5 (03:29:27):
But if you look at the votes in this issue, right,
like two hundred and sixteen votes in favor of five
against and three abstentions. So among bishops, which is to
sink from cardinals like this is this is almost universal, right,
and yet given that our vice president has made being
an adult convert to Catholicism a large part of his
personality embarrassing. Yeah, this is like, it is remarkable. It's

(03:29:50):
worth paying attention to. Also, I think when I talk
to migrants specifically, like when I was in the Darien
Gap talking to migrants, their faith is massively important to
so many and a lot of people, especially coming from
South Central America, will be Catholic, right, and that is
what propels them through, and so for them to feel
that the Church has not abandoned them, it is important

(03:30:12):
to them. Yeah. The thing when I speak to people
now who are here, the thing that they want more
than anything is a priest to come to their hearing,
to their meeting with them. That is what makes them
feel safe. And so I am happy that the Church
is continuing to try and make them.

Speaker 2 (03:30:28):
Feel safe, because yeah, what what else are you going
to do?

Speaker 21 (03:30:32):
Right?

Speaker 5 (03:30:33):
Yeah, well we've we're trying everything else, and it's not worth.

Speaker 2 (03:30:35):
Yeah, I defer to what will make the person being
victimized feel better and basically all instances, and if it's
having a priest along, then I'm glad the priest is there.

Speaker 5 (03:30:46):
Yeah, and I am am happy that this is something
that can make them feel safer because, you.

Speaker 3 (03:30:51):
Know, critical support to the Catholic Church.

Speaker 2 (03:30:53):
Yeah, yeah, very critical.

Speaker 3 (03:30:55):
Well, the critical part I think. I think the other
thing is worth noting that the same conference also voted
to have an official ban on any gender affirming Catholic hospitals,
which is like one in seven of all people in
the US get their care at Catholic hospitals because there's
a million of them, so critical. Yeah, yeah, like lots

(03:31:16):
of they're not Yeah, look there they are no Protestants. Okay.

Speaker 4 (03:31:21):
It does feel bad to have so much Catholic praise
on the show, but you know, I will swallow my
Protestant prizes.

Speaker 5 (03:31:29):
Yeah. I'm neither a Catholic nor Protestant, but I'm glad
this is happening.

Speaker 3 (03:31:34):
You're British, yes, so you.

Speaker 5 (03:31:40):
Do we do Catholicism without popes.

Speaker 2 (03:31:42):
I think we should have popes without Catholicism.

Speaker 3 (03:31:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:31:45):
See that's interesting, Robert, that's an interesting idea.

Speaker 2 (03:31:48):
That's Discordianism. Oh yeah, well, yeah, that's kind of.

Speaker 4 (03:31:52):
The least interesting version, a real kind of non Catholic
like clerical class. Anyway, I'm gonna put this down in
my my I FI novel Volder, you know is a.

Speaker 5 (03:32:04):
Forum of you know, just amount Adam just just just
gradually reduced the volume we're going to get. We're back
to Immigocehen. We did learn this week that the Department
of Home ad Security secretly and illegally kept domestic data
on nine hundred Chicago Land residents under Biden, just in
case anyone was wondering what they were doing before people

(03:32:26):
started paying attention to them. They also quote irrevocably destroyed
video from inside a broad View, which is an ice
tendin facility in Chicago Land. Yeah, of course I'm not
shocked by that. I will say, like I would have
been shocked if that had happened under a previous administration.
Put it that way, like, it's not massively out of
character for them to be incompetent at soaring and this

(03:32:47):
kind of thing. And Ken Paxton has attempted to sue
Harris County, a place in Texas, for donating not to
nonprofits to provide a legal aid to migrants. He has
some justification to this, which is theodocorous. But I'm just
going to name a few of the NGOs here Gals

(03:33:09):
and Houston Immigrant Representation Project, Kids in Needed Defense, Justice
for All Immigrants, but Disis and Baker Ripley. Yeah, this does,
I think show part of the strategy which we saw
and we have seen since twenty eighteen. Right like you'll
remember that let's of Engio volunteers and twenty eighteen were

(03:33:29):
placed on a watch list, as were many journalists for
crossing to cover the migrant caravan. But this idea that
the NGOs are quote aiding and a vetting is a
phrase you always see, right like that that somehow people
would come here if it wasn't for NGOs. Often this
takes on a specific form of blaming one NGO, which

(03:33:50):
is highest orus Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society rate, and.

Speaker 2 (03:33:54):
We sire one guess as to why they blame that one.

Speaker 5 (03:33:57):
Yeah, it's like repeat guest of the show Anti Semitism
coming back again, which resulted directly in the in the
Tree of Life shooting, right like, this is of that
same intellectual family of thought. I guess that is what
I will say as Ludacris. People come here because their
lives are not Liverpool, where they're at. That's what I

(03:34:18):
got played, play the song.

Speaker 3 (03:34:24):
Rocky jazz, righty jazz, Sorry, rocky jazz.

Speaker 23 (03:34:33):
Rocky.

Speaker 3 (03:34:36):
All right, So there is actually a surprising amount of
tariff news. All right, the tariff freebate checks. Are we
getting terrorff freebate checks? I think probably not? So what
is this? Trump started talking about this on November eighth
on True Social USA. Today he truthed, she used to

(03:35:00):
call it truth. I am recommending to Senate Republicans that
the hundreds of billions of dollars is the hundreds of
billions are capitalized for reasons that are baffling, currently being
sent to money sucking insurance companies in order to save
the bad healthcare provided by Obamacare be directly sent to
the people so that they can purchase their own healthcare,
their own much better health care. And so originally this

(03:35:24):
was going to be like a two thousand dollars thing
to your health savings account from tariff proceeds or something.
And then the second time he stopped talking about the
health savings account stuff, and he was just saying a
two thousand dollars check the USA today. The piece notes
that the Secretary of the Treasury, Scott Bessett, said and
ABC News on November ninth, which was Sunday, that trust

(03:35:45):
proposed tariff dividend could come in a lot of forms,
adding it could just be the tax decreases that we
are seeing on the president's agenda. No tax on tips,
no tax in overtime, no taxes, social Security, deductibility of
auto loans. He said, so those are subtance ancial deductions
that are being financed to the tax bill. So he
apparently like hadn't heard any of this is what it

(03:36:07):
seems like. And then a few days later this was
this was yesterday. On Wednesday the twelfth, Caroline Levitt used
the ghoulish press secretary said that Trump is quote committed
to the payments, So who knows. You can't call her
ghoulish just because she's a twenty seven year old woman
who looks like that, Yeah, that's not cool. Hey, you

(03:36:28):
know what, we're not gonna're going We're not gonna do this.
But she she is ghoulish, not because she looks like
she's forty and she's just.

Speaker 2 (03:36:36):
Like a ghoul, but like.

Speaker 3 (03:36:39):
No, but like she also acts like a ghoul constantly,
which is the actual thing that she is ghoulish for.

Speaker 4 (03:36:44):
Right, Every press secretary I've ever seen has made me
so mad, Like the job of a press secretary is infuriating.

Speaker 5 (03:36:53):
Yeah, remember the sake bombs.

Speaker 3 (03:36:55):
Well, also like they've never been good. They also did
used to be more normal than this, Like they didn't
used to be this unhinted.

Speaker 5 (03:37:03):
Didn't bring him back. I feel like like like the
first Trump had been moved a min a certain way.

Speaker 3 (03:37:09):
Too. It's just awful, terrible stuff. Didn't used to be
like this. What are the few things I'll ever say
that anyway? As you were saying, yeah, so so, she
said that Trump is committed to the payments. I again,
I don't think we're gonna see this, probably not definitely,
don't plan on having x two thousand dollars. I think
he's I think he's committed to the payments as much

(03:37:31):
as he is his like first or second wife. Yeah,
which is not much so. The second, the second incredibly
important piece of tariff news is the pasta tariffs. The
Department of Commerce seven percent pasta tariffs on imported Italian pasta.

Speaker 2 (03:37:49):
Garrison.

Speaker 3 (03:37:50):
The first tariff.

Speaker 2 (03:37:53):
It's still available. You can still get your mac.

Speaker 5 (03:37:56):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:37:57):
It's okay.

Speaker 3 (03:37:58):
As as as the Guardian that most pasta in the
US is made in the US, so it's not really
affected by those cares. Yeah, hold hold on, let me
let me allow me to finish the sentence hears in,
I will address t hu. So it's it's mostly just gluten.
It's mostly gluten free pasta. And also like imported fancy pasta,

(03:38:20):
which is like nice little pasta, Well fancy is a
bit of okay, it's like two dollars more.

Speaker 5 (03:38:26):
Okay, attack some pretension, you know, and.

Speaker 3 (03:38:29):
So this but this sucks for people who like pasta,
that's good. And also for people who ARESI to gluten
or who just are trying to reduce the amount of
gluten they're eating for diabetic reasons, et cetera, et cetera.
That all really sucks. In that same piece, Yeah, that
same Guardian piece, the unbelievably named Scott ketch Him, who
is the founder of like an artismal.

Speaker 2 (03:38:52):
Ketch him is the real last name. That's why the
Pokemon game is.

Speaker 5 (03:38:57):
Idah Scott.

Speaker 4 (03:39:00):
I don't understand why ketchup is funny? Why catch them funny?

Speaker 2 (03:39:03):
Did you not play the Pokemon you too.

Speaker 13 (03:39:07):
No.

Speaker 3 (03:39:08):
Also, also, it's so close to being ketchup, and I
think about, Okay, you have Italian pasta.

Speaker 4 (03:39:13):
Whatever, Okay, you put ketchup on Italian pasta?

Speaker 3 (03:39:17):
Interesting? No, but do you know who does do this?
Chinese hotels. In two thousand and nine the thing I
discovered when they, for some reason fed us tried to
feed us American food instead of feeding us Chinese food,
and dear god, awfweeds zeroto test.

Speaker 2 (03:39:31):
My favorite thing in any foreign country is when they're like,
I know what you want, American food. You came to
Grease to eat it, TGI Fridays, didn't you.

Speaker 3 (03:39:40):
Burger is all over Berlin.

Speaker 2 (03:39:42):
Burger's not America, bug right.

Speaker 5 (03:39:46):
And it is now. I feel like he'd be disappointed,
Carson if you knew how many people in continental Europe
or eating pasta and ketch up on a daily basis.
Ye that brown sugar.

Speaker 4 (03:39:56):
Yeah, Europeans are. Europeans are obviously sick.

Speaker 5 (03:40:00):
You've been to Belgium?

Speaker 2 (03:40:01):
Yeah that's wrong, I have Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:40:02):
Okay, locking locking back in, locking back in on the
post anarchist cafe was closed two pm. Those lazy word God,
look a look at the conditions that I happened to
with everyon dimentioned inflation. Out got the inflation. Joe Kerry
Tymer's trying to finish it as a pasta. God, okay,
finishing this. Scott Ketchum agrees that the manufacturers will quote

(03:40:25):
take advantage of the news and slightly raise their prices.
That's just business, he said, So this actually probably will
increase pasta prices across the board because the US is
as a justification for raising prices.

Speaker 5 (03:40:37):
Canonically, how old is ashketching? I'm trying to work out
of this as a sibling, since.

Speaker 3 (03:40:42):
It's been like thirteen for no, but he's been thirteen
for these entirely, Like.

Speaker 5 (03:40:50):
So we can think siblings more than parents.

Speaker 3 (03:40:52):
Fstein's dream.

Speaker 5 (03:40:54):
Yeah okay, Ash Kirchen's brother put it in the law.

Speaker 3 (03:40:57):
Oh my god, okay, okay. Two more things. Two more
things that I had to get there, I spread to god. Okay.
One fifty year mortgage. Trump has become obsessed with the
idea of fifty year mortgages. Just an idea, so unhinged
I have any Republicans talk about positively. The mortgage industry
is like, don't do this. This is a bad idea.

(03:41:19):
I'm not going to read the full paragraph I had
here from CNN, but you know, CNN did a very
basic calculation of instead of a thirty year fixed mortgage,
a fifty year fixed mortgage. So the basically their calculation
on like a four hundred and fifty thousand dollars house
was that you would save about three hundred dollars a
month technically, but over the course of the loan, instead
of spending about five hundred and fifty thousand dollars in interest,

(03:41:42):
you would spend a million dollars in interest.

Speaker 5 (03:41:44):
And yeah, that's that we save money, But give me
half a million dollars to the bank.

Speaker 2 (03:41:49):
Well, hey, you're not even talking about the fifteen year
auto loans.

Speaker 3 (03:41:53):
Yeah, everyone who.

Speaker 2 (03:41:57):
Buys a Kiya can trust that it will keep working
for fifteen years.

Speaker 5 (03:42:01):
He's gonna say he's.

Speaker 3 (03:42:03):
Worn't lasting fifty years. They're made like cardboard, right, Like
they're just.

Speaker 5 (03:42:07):
Kind of more than twice the value of the house
in interest.

Speaker 3 (03:42:12):
Yeah, make America affordable again. Yeah, okay, unbelievable. And then
finally I want to close with what is actually going
on with the jobs and inflation numbers for October because
I think people are getting a lot of very bad
information about this, I mean, and it's not their fault.

Speaker 4 (03:42:26):
It's again because the Democrats shutdown made it impossible to
get any reliable data. So now we can never have
data ever again.

Speaker 3 (03:42:34):
Yeah, so okay, okay, so let's let's let let's let
let's go into like what is it? What is actually
going on here? So on Wednesday, Caroline Levitt said that
we might not ever get October the October jobs and
inflation data. Oops. So however, Comma, I'm sure this numbers
would have been fine. Comma.

Speaker 5 (03:42:51):
Let's spirit Halloween bump would have been huge, Comma.

Speaker 3 (03:42:54):
On Thursday, National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett, who, by
the way, is the guy who's whole thing is that
he wants to he wants to impose taxes on holding
US bonds, the worst maybe the only idea I've ever seen,
fifty year mortgage astonishingly bad ideas. But he said on
Fox News this is today as day of recording, said

(03:43:16):
on Fox News that we're going to get some of
the data, but the data we're supposed to get is
very weird. Now, so this is the September data we're
supposed to get next week because that was already recorded
before the before they got mention. Right, Yeah, and there
is legitimately even in a sort of not if a
normal Bureau of Labor Statistics was trying to get these
statistics out, it would be a little difficult for them. However,

(03:43:40):
come we're only getting the jobs added numbers and not
the job lost numbers.

Speaker 5 (03:43:46):
Oh wow, what a great strategy.

Speaker 4 (03:43:51):
So yeah, I'm sure that I'm sure that number is fine.
I'm sure it's not negative seventy thousand jobs or something.

Speaker 3 (03:43:57):
Yeah. Right, and you know, and apparently, let's be as
the survey the collected information never went out, and I
mean it probably didn't because of the shutdown, but also
like you could, you could work this out, they're just
not doing it. We talked a few months ago about
Trump's attempt to take over the Buer of Labor Statistics,
which with his attempt to install the hideously incompetent Heritage

(03:44:18):
Foundation economists and I use that term very loosely here,
uh EJ and TONI and Trump was actually forced to
like pull back on installing this guys ahead of a
Buera of Labor Satistics. So it's being run by the
interim head and has been for a long time now.
But it seems like A there's conflicting information going out
and B it does seem like Trump has been able
to get a decent amount of control over the beer

(03:44:39):
of libor Sitistics, which is supposed to be a nonpartisan
body that just releases the data because everyone in the
entire capitals economy reclied relies on it. And it is
possible that this is that we have already gotten our
last unbrigged like beeer of labor statistics reports. I mean,
I can't confirm that they're straight up breaking it. And
it's also possible that oh, well, this wasn't the product

(03:45:01):
of that, and we are going to get some of
the data like we are supposed to get inflation numbers
by it's not good. Oops.

Speaker 4 (03:45:11):
Well to end on some good news, I guess. On Monday,
this Supreme Court rejected a call to overturn or here
it's a previous ruling on legalizing same sex marriage nation wide.
So this is where this is where they're this is
where they're drawing the line right now? Is this I

(03:45:32):
think I think I did predict this a few months
ago and in which people got a little bit mad
at me for saying that I didn't think they were
going to pick this one up another w in the
Ghar column. But I think it is fairly interesting that
this is this is the point in which they're like, nah, nah,
it's not worth it. Like this, this is more settled
to them than even the abortion thing was. I think

(03:45:54):
I think some of the general like economic issues, shows
that there is not a real desire for pushing on
this right now, based on you know, gestures broadly at
other economy stuff and some of the some of the
some of the anti woke fuel maybe maybe running out
as the as the economic situation becomes more and more
dire dire, right Like, how much longer can the Republicans

(03:46:18):
just scream about trans people as they're ruining the economy?
Do you think that's going to still work for them
in twenty twenty six?

Speaker 3 (03:46:24):
Maybe not.

Speaker 4 (03:46:25):
They might be scared that they've put all of their
eggs in this whole anti wok culture basket, and now
that they're in charge and the country's still getting worse,
they're like, well, I wonder if we can replay that
card again or not.

Speaker 3 (03:46:36):
As a final economy note, I want to note that
soft Bank sold all of their shares in Nvidia Share.
Don't worry about it, It's part of regular stalk rotation.
It's fine. These are the biggest rubes who have ever existed,
have come rid of all of.

Speaker 2 (03:46:54):
Shits.

Speaker 3 (03:46:55):
These are These are the we work guide.

Speaker 2 (03:46:59):
Whole on the bag for rework, Yes, which I mean?
Does that mean that they're they're getting out too early
of hey I or does it mean that, uh, they're
hesitant their gun shy enough that they got out just
in time.

Speaker 5 (03:47:14):
We'll see who can say we.

Speaker 3 (03:47:17):
Reported the new scarce. I'm stealing your line this week?

Speaker 2 (03:47:19):
Why we all stole that line from a terrible man.

Speaker 3 (03:47:23):
You haven't seen the Newsroom, It's stolen valor. Yep, great show.

Speaker 4 (03:47:28):
I would love a new season of the Newsroom where
he works for some like bullshit like Internet News company.
He's like he's like a substacker and he has like
a home studio. Oh oh top ten list, Yeah God,
I would love that.

Speaker 2 (03:47:46):
Would super big in it. But they don't ever make
a direct point of it.

Speaker 23 (03:47:50):
It just becomes like subtly obvious, like oh wow, this
this is a guy who's bought into some weird conspiracy theories. Sure,
I I was thinking because I mentioned it came out
the same year as True Detective.

Speaker 2 (03:48:01):
I would like a new season of The news Room.
That's a crossover with the first season of True Detective,
where we get Woody Harrelson and we get that British
lady all all in the same room together. It'll be great.

Speaker 4 (03:48:14):
They would be a nasty combo. I mentionined, ho, which
fucked up shit they could get up to it be awful?

Speaker 6 (03:48:19):
Awful?

Speaker 2 (03:48:20):
Hell yeah, well we're not even on the air anymore.

Speaker 3 (03:48:23):
Oh no, we're still in the air.

Speaker 2 (03:48:25):
Well I stopped re borning.

Speaker 5 (03:48:27):
We reported the news.

Speaker 2 (03:48:28):
We reported the news. Hey, we'll be back Monday with
more episodes every week from now until the heat death
of the Universe.

Speaker 1 (03:48:39):
It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio.

Speaker 9 (03:48:48):
App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

Speaker 3 (03:48:50):
You listen to podcasts.

Speaker 1 (03:48:52):
Can now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed
directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.

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