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March 26, 2024 71 mins

Robert sits down with Dr. Kaveh Hoda to tell several hilarious fake doctor stories that wind up exposing the dark heart of the health insurance industry.

(2 Part Series)

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media, Oh boy, howdy, what's killing my patients?

Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is behind the bastards. The podcast that just I
would say, heroically allowed doctor cave joa our guest for today,
to save a life before coming here. We didn't didn't
demand that that a man die for the sake of
meeting our podcast schedule. And I think we deserve an
award for that.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
You know, I don't know what very gracious, you were
very gracious about that. He thanks you, I thank you,
We all thank you for that. And I did have
to run it by gohand that is correct.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's you know, if you have a if
you know anyone on the Noel Committee, hit him up.
You know, we'll take a Webby Presidential Award of Freedom,
any of them, any of them. You know, I'm good
with whatever. And he got all of all of the
Egot awards.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
We take a.

Speaker 5 (00:59):
Web Award for freedom. That's how that's how I know.
I'm the only person on this call that has a Webby, So.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
You're the only person on this award.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
One of my favorite through lines. You know, we are
periodically fielding kind of pitches and stuff from from folks
in the television industry. And I'm hopeful that, you know,
one of these days, will figure out how to make
TV shows and stuff off of some of the stuff
we're doing. But in all of these pitch decks, people
keep describing me as an award winning journalist and folks.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Ladies and gentlemen, really fun hims and them's. I have
never received an award for anything, nor do I expect to, Hey, you.

Speaker 5 (01:44):
Win the award of being the best business partner ever
from me.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
I got the only award that really matters to me, which, Wow,
Sophie's turned on a zoom bucket, so when she says.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
Certain things, fireworks go on behind her and interrupt, but I.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
Don't know I was doing it, so it just keeps happening.

Speaker 5 (02:08):
And it's really just just makes me seem so much
cooler than I am.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
I was. I was leaving a nightclub in Los Angeles.
This was seven or eight years ago, and I had
had far too much to drink, and outside the nightclub
was like the best dressed man I've ever seen in
my life. He had a waistcoat on, everything like shown
but not too much incredible, like custom leather boots, and
I vomited into a trash can in front of him,

(02:33):
and he said, good work, buddy, And that's the only
award I ever need. You know, I don't know anything
about that guy, but he was cool and he saw
he saw that I made it all into the trash can,
and he was like, this man's a fellow soul, a
traveler on the road. Anyway, this is a podcast about
bad people, and some bad people are doctors.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
That's right, What's but what's that show? The good doctors?

Speaker 5 (03:01):
And it then it's and and it's just you look,
it's just doctors. You let me.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
If you look at Hollywood, it's always like every show
about doctors or movie about doctors is basically everyone in
the medical system is terrible except for this one guy
who's willing to buck the systems.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
He's gonna patch some Adams or whatever it happens in
the Patch Adams movie. Yeah, now, you know, we've we've
built I would say probably about like fifteen to twenty
percent of the show's like legacy and audience has been
built off the back of like quack doctors, most of
whom were not real doctors. You know, we've definitely covered
some actual doctors who were monsters. A lot of them
came from the era back when anybody could be a

(03:42):
doctor if you just said you were. We always have
fun with these, and so I'm always on the lookout
for like a good fake doctor story, right, Yeah, and periodically,
especially I think over the last year or two, I
keep coming across stories of like, well, this is really interesting,
this is like a fake doctor or whatever that has
like an it's an interesting story. I want to tell
it to people, but there's not that much here. I

(04:02):
get maybe two pages of script out of this, right,
And so my plan was I'm just going to collect
three or four of these, you know, put them together,
and we'll probably get a good episode, maybe a one
part or something out of it. And then as I
was putting together a couple of these little shorter fake
doctor bastards, I I kind of uncovered, I mean, I
uncovered other people's reporting that uncovered like a massive, sweeping

(04:26):
nationwide healthcare scam by the insurance industry that is destroying
public health and the lives of countless Americans. So that's
kind of what the story's gonna be about. But we've
got some good medical bastards here too.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Fantastic. Yeah, let's fucking burn my career to the ground
for Katy. Let's do it, make do, Let's burn bridges today.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well, the first guy we're going to talk about, you're
not gonna have to build knee bridges for because this man,
this man is a and I promise this this ties
into our classic deep sinister over theme here, but it's
gonna seem just kind of like a one off at first.
And the guy we're going to talk about is Malachi
Love Robinson.

Speaker 4 (05:05):
That's a real name.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
It sure is, as far as I can tell, this
is his actual name. I love hyphen Robinson.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
You got a name like that. You are destined for
greatness or for jail? Well two, yeah, it's it's prison
or you solve a plague, one of those two things.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
Here it's gryft or great None, yeah, grift.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
You're great.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, there's no, there's no Malachi Love Robinson, just like
mowen Is Lawn, you know, working a nine to five
as an accountant. No, you go big, You go big,
or you wind up dying in a cell. So back in,
you know, the winter of twenty fourteen to twenty fifteen,
a young doctor started doing rounds at Saint Mary's Medical
Center in West Palm Beach, Florida. I'm sure you can

(05:48):
correct me if I get something wrong, But my understanding
is that large hospitals like often have groups of young
doctors rotating through them as they finish residency requirements. Right,
this is part of how you become whatever doctor stereoti
type reference the Zoomers will recognize. Right now, I don't
know what doctors show us on TV. They probably haven't
seen House.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
It's still fucking Anatomy.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Are still on TV.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
It's incredible.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
No, I could do a whole show on atomy.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
And this is why the Zoomers are not popping enough pills.
They didn't have Hugh Laurie making it look good for us.
God damn it. That's that's tragic. So for about a month,
this new doctor, Malachi Love Robinson, was a regular presence
at these clinical rotations. He'd walk around with a lab
coat that read anaesthesiology, would tell people he was a doctor.

(06:34):
At one point, an obgyn at the hospital received a
letter from Malachi asking, hey, can I shadow you? And
I think he found this a little odd. It's not
totally weird, you know, but he was like, Okay, this
is not the way people usually ask for this sort
of thing, and hospitals are busy places, so whatever kind
of odd impression Malachae occasionally gave off usually sort of

(06:55):
gave way to the fact that everybody's got shit to do.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
Right, There's like there's people bleeding to death and stuff.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
You know, it's spent too much time worrying about the
weird looking kid, right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
Okay, yeah, whatever, Yeah, come on, come on, you're supposed
to be here. You have a coat, you look like
a doctor. Yeah yeah, come on.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
There wouldn't just be a random boy in the hospital, right,
But that's exactly what happened. And I'm going to read
a quote from an article in the Sun Sentinel. Staff
at the medical center's obgy in office was alerted by
a patient that a young male who quote appeared to
be a child, was dressed as a doctor and was
inside an exam room. Another security guard told police she

(07:30):
had seen the boy gain access to secured areas of
the hospital in the past week. Security footage showed the
boy entering the lobby from the parking lot. Officers saw
the car parked outside and could see a white lab
coat on a hangar in the back seat. When interviewed
by police, the team told them that he has been
a doctor for years and that his family could vouch
for him.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
Oh no, I'm just realizing that he specifically went for
obi gyne. Yeah. Oh what a fucking turn. If he
was just some sort of like precocious youth who was
like I want to learn medicine and be jogie howser,
I'd be like I would have a little like yeah
for that, A little part of me would little appreciate that.
But now I see what he's doing. He's just like
a young kid who wants to see boobs and stuff.

(08:10):
That's that's probably it, right.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
He never will admit that, but that is my guess
as to why he's kind of like specifically trying to
do obgyn stuff and like it is. It's it makes
sense that it's a patient who first makes the report
because they're kind of they're just stuck in a bed
and they see this kid and they're like, there's no
way that's a doctor. This is clearly a child. Why
why as a child in this room with a lamp

(08:32):
coat on?

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Oh my god, what does this happen?

Speaker 6 (08:35):
This happens like twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, not all that
long ago, right, So eventually, and again this only takes
a couple of months, which is longer than you'd expect,
but he's not It doesn't go on for that long
and the police get called. Right, So there's some news
reports that a child was in and none of these reports,
by the way, name Malachi because you don't as a

(08:58):
journal in journalism, you don't name children who commit crimes. Right,
It's a pretty hard and a fast rule because they're children.
Like this is bad, but he is still a child.
We know his name because of crimes he continues to
commit as an adult. As a spoiler for where this
is going, so the police, you know, take him into custody.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
There's news reports at the time. Note that his mother
like said he was ill, he was refusing to take medicine,
but he was under the care of a doctor. She
was kind of insinuating maybe he was pretending to be
a doctor because of that. I don't actually know if
any of that's true or if his mom was just lying.
It was all really suspicious and weird. But again, Malachi
is a minor, so he gets some you know, minor punishment,

(09:35):
and the case sort of drifts away without much comment
because there's not really much else to do. When a
kid commits a crime like this, you know it's not
it's certainly a bad thing to do, but there's no like,
there's no victim. Right, he didn't hurt anybody in a
way that we can you know, define yet, right.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
I mean, I'm really fascinated to know what they let
him do, because when I take medical students or residents
like around for like, and I'm like teaching them, I will,
you know, with the patient's consent, always is like, hey,
can he listen to your heart? Can he do this
abdominal exam? I'm really wondering if he was just walking
around watching them, or if he was like trying to

(10:13):
get handsy.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
With these hospitals are cagey about it. My guess is
that just because he was kind of nervous, he didn't
push to do it the way like a real resident
who's actually trying to get some hands on experience might.
But it probably wasn't nothing too, Like the hospital kind
of wants you to think it's nothing, but like, I don't.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Know, guys, he was there a while. What I'm fascinated
to know is like usually people walking around like notepads
writing down stuff like I'm wondering if like he had
like a notepad and if like anyone looked at it,
it was just like drawings, like doodling boobs and stuff.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
It's a little creep, perhaps creep, not impossible, so you know,
this is the kind. There's a number of reasons a
kid might do this. He might just legitimately want to
be a doctor and also be a child and thus
bad at knowing what's appropriate. This could also be someone
who's mentally ill. There are certain mental illnesses people often

(11:08):
get weirdly obsessed with doctors and medicine. That's not what's
going on with Malachi. He is a con artist and
we're going to learn this later because about a year
after this happens, when Malachi is now an adult, Floridians
wake up to the opening of a new medical clinic
in their area new Birth New Life Medical Center and
Urgent Care LLC. On the website is a stock image

(11:31):
of a racially diverse group of awkwardly smiling actors pretending
to be doctors, and below that is this text. New Birth,
New Life Medical Center and Urgent Care's mission is to
provide personalized, high quality, holistic and alternative medical care on
an ass needed or preventive basis. The only staff member
listed is doctor Malachi Love Robinson, and despite having just
been arrested for looking like a child dressed as a doctor,

(11:54):
he could not help but pick a photo and bio
for himself that screamed child pretending to be a Have
you ever seen a child more obvious child pretending to
be a doctor than that?

Speaker 3 (12:06):
This is so Robert has the photo on the screen.
Now we're watching looking at this, and it does I
do remember seeing this now that you put this up,
and oh my goodness, it looks like a child, like
a sweet, sweet boy. You want to pinch his cheeks,
knowing what I do now, I want to pinch them
really hard, hard, like.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
It looks like you know, when I was in high school,
my high school offered like a pre pre med program
where you could actually do some very limited like clinical rotations,
and I think you'd be kind of certified as an
EMT sort of by the time you graduated high school.
It was like for kids who wanted to be doctors
and stuff. It looks like the photos they would take
like you're clearly a child but.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
Like you've gotten access to a lab coat. No one
in medicine has that much enthusiasm and their smile anymore.
They don't have that time. They've got their PhD. Oh wait,
hold on a second, he the PhD. I missed that. No,
he's claiming to.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
He's listed himself is Love Robinson, PhD, HHPC A m PC.
I don't know what those other two are.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Wow, I don't either.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
I think they have to do with because he's not
just pretending to be a real doctor. He's pretending to
be a real doctor who's also like a natural path.
He can do food and herb therapy, psychotherapy, electro therapy, physiotherapy,
and mechan and also, by the way, I.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Learned this when he was like four. He's so young,
learned all this stuff.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
If somebody is saying that they are both a regular
doctor and can do psychotherapy on you and electro therapy
on you and herb therapy on you, they're probably not
able to do anything.

Speaker 5 (13:41):
I just want to point out that I want to
go look up what HHP dash semen, and the first
thing that comes up is, uh, the reddit thread about
this guy, And the second that comes up is team
Charge to be a doctor, Sir, I don't know if
h HP.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
And if it is let us.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
That's just like doctors would love to put like these
these titles after their name, like MD, PhD, oh yeah, PI,
MPG O D like we just love it. Can't get
enough of that.

Speaker 5 (14:12):
My brother's job title is like three sentences Jesus.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, you know what, See this is why real jobs
like podcast or you could just say in a single word,
you know.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Exactly my real work when I'm really giving back to humanity,
my calling, my calling.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, I've been covered in blood because of my job too, Kava.
I wasn't saving a life, but there was a lot
of blood. So about a month after this website goes up,
an eighty something year old West Palm resident named Anita
Morrison starts experiencing stomach pain like most people do in
this situation. I think she googles like urgent care or
something she's looking for like clinics near me right, And

(14:54):
you know, our lives are governed by algorithms from various
search engines and apps, and one of them sited. The
closest clinic to her was new Birth New Life Medical Center.
I do think Malachi part of why there's so many
different terms for all sorts of different treatments in there
is so that it'll get pulled by an algorithm. Right,
He's clearly had some understanding of like, if I phrased

(15:15):
this in a certain way online, my business will be
suggested to people who are nearby who need medical help.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
Right.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
NBC News describes what happened next. She called the office
located in her hometown of West Palm Beach and spoke
with a man named doctor Malachi love Robinson, who offered
to pay her and a home visit. Wearing a white
lab coat and stethoscope slung around his neck, Love Robinson
examined Morrison, focusing on her legs, heart, and lung. She
said he told her she had arthritis. Then he sold
her natural vitamins to dold the discomfort.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
She said.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
She allowed the baby faced physician to return four more times,
although by early January she realized something wasn't right inside
her home. Personal checks went missing. So he's just sort
of robbing this old lady woah, using being at to
get into our house and then taking stuff from her.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
Washington. Yeah, it's gross, right, makes it so mad? It
makes mad. Yeah, Like it's just like the I mean, uh,
you know, as doctors, I'll be the first to say
we're not perfect and call us out for our many
many faults.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
But of course not I've heard of a podcaster or
two who's done bad things.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
Oh I have not, never, never, but definitely it's happened.
And it's like the we try our best to create
a sense of trust with our patients and to do
house visit is a pretty uncommon thing, and it's such
a rare thing that when I hear of it happens still,

(16:46):
and it still does happen rarely. There's a part of
me that loves it just because, like it is the
most old fashioned, the heart of medicine, going to where
the patient's at, both you know, literally and in all
in some senses, you know, figuratively meeting them where they're at.
And in this case, he's taken that trust and he

(17:09):
is using it to his own nefarious gains. And it
really pisses me off because at least when a doctor,
I mean, I don't know if it's better when a
doctor does it a bad thing or not, but you
know the fact that someone is mustling in and trying
to use our title in that way like we don't
have enough problem makes me so angry. Oh yeah, angry.
I hope something bad happens to this kid.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, I mean it doesn't go like yes as a spoiler,
it does, so. The Washington Post reports at the final
straw for Anita, the woman that he is stealing from,
Kames comes when she calls him over because she's again
she keeps experiencing pain, probably because he's not treating.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Whatever thing is.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, and he tells her that she needs to go
to the hospital, right, And his plan was to rob
her home after she was taken away and blame anything
missing on the fact that, well, you're old, you know
you just forgot right. But Anita hands him her purse,
say she's being taken away by like the EMTs, and
to put back in her house, and he takes her
check book and he starts cashing fraudulent checks all around town.

(18:09):
So that makes it pretty easy for her to call
the authorities and they set up a sting by the
bang Baya Boom.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
He gets arrested.

Speaker 5 (18:14):
Right.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
This is the point at which the news starts covering
the story. Malachi was eighteen now, which meant they could
publish his name and he had now robbed an old
lady if it turned out to be like thirty four
thousand dollars.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
So wow, at this point where like he does not
deserve the benefit of you know, maybe he could get
better here. Let's let's put up on blast effectively.

Speaker 5 (18:32):
Right.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
This is not like him being like he's a sick
kid who needs help. I mean this is really thought out. Yeah,
I mean it's not a bad strategy to be honest
with you. No, no, no. When someone's going to the hospital,
there's so much chaos around that, and they're so sick,
and they have so many other things to worry about,
you would think that it's the last thing on their
mind to think about where their checkbook is. Of course,
so it's really well thought out and it's so despicable.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Oh yeah, no it is, and it shows you know,
he's got he's obviously smart enough understands how to manipulate
the Internet and these algorithms in order to put himself
in a position. He's got some degree of social manipulating ability.
But he also doesn't seem to have the self control.
I think a more skilled con man would have been like, okay,
I've gotten five to ten grand out of this old lady.
Time to move on, you know, like eventually she'll notice

(19:17):
and that'll get me in trouble. So I'm going to
mosey on down the street. Not trying to give people advice.
I'm just analyzing this guy. One of the things that's
interesting when you read articles about him, they some of them,
like the Washington Post piece, have these details about his family,
and every single fact you learn about this guy sounds
like another scam that we just haven't uncovered yet.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Quote Love Robinson's grandfather, William Robinson, said this is all
a misunderstanding. He told The Son Sentinel that the team
never claimed to be a medical doctor, just a holistic doctor,
and that he held certificates to practice from online schools.
He was pursuing things, but I don't really know what
it came to. Robinson said. He was pursuing the field
that he wanted to get into a local station w PBF.

(20:00):
Realize this kid was willing to talk and smelled like this,
They're like, Okay, there's content here. So they reach out
to this kid and they're like, hey, is there any
chance you were the little boy who pretended to be
a doctor at that hospital last year, and Malachi's answer was,
I requested shadow physicians. Next thing I know, cops are there.
That's all I know. I have no idea NBC does

(20:23):
more digging, because by now reporters are calling Malachi doctor love,
and I think they're doing that. I think whoever did
that was like, there's a pretty good chance this gets
turned into a Netflix series, and I want it to
be based off of my article, so let's try to
find a title here. Yeah, and they find out that
he does have one seemingly legitimate qualification, which is a
certification from the American Association of Druglist Practitioners.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
You heard of these guys, Kave, I have not, but
I don't love the sound of it.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
No, No, that's because they're bullshit. They are like a
real thing. They're just a real thing for conment, right, yeah, Ah,
Conment's not the right term. They're a real thing for kooks,
for cranks, you know, not saying that like you always
need to use drugs to treat problems. There's a number
of problems that have treatments that aren't based in drug giving.
People keep telling me like, yeah, but all of my

(21:12):
problems require drugs, Sophie like of being sober, which is
why I need to drink this creative lemonade.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
You know, I will say this, well he drinks his
creative lemonade, which he just took a huge swig of.
Oh yeah, baby. You know, I'm not gonna sit here
and say that Western medicine has the complete knowledge of
everything that happens with the patient. I mean, there's lots
that we can learn from other places, and I'm open
minded to things, but you know, we look for proof,

(21:41):
we look for evidence, and when there's not, there's this
big vacuum, and in that vacuum gets all that space
gets filled with grifters, almost all of it.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
And it's yeah, it's one thing to be like, you know,
I have had you know, I had a lower back
problem right that I dealt with through like a physical
therapy regimen. I didn't use drugs for it. Sometimes that works.
But saying that I'm just a drugless medical practitioner, well no, sometimes,
how are you going to druglessly treat the flu?

Speaker 3 (22:11):
Like?

Speaker 2 (22:11):
How are you going to deal with like cancer without
any drugs?

Speaker 3 (22:15):
You know, like medication exists for a reason, right, Yeah,
to your beautiful four parter on Steve jobs for that. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Look at what happened with Steve when he tried to
cure his cancer with apples. So the American Association of
druglest Practitioners are based out of Galveston, which is the
first black mark against them. Nothing good comes out of Galveston,
or will it ever? More to the point, anyone can
join their organization, not any doctor, anybody, right, So you

(22:45):
can be a druglist practitioner, which, like I don't know
if you're just like Ted who works as an accountant
or whatever, Like what are you a druglist practitioner of accounting? Yeah,
you don't have to be any kind of medical professional.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Essentially, the number of people who could join this association
is encompasses everyone on earth.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
Right.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
If you ever treated a cold by just like waiting
until it got better, congratulations you qualify.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
So the AADP is primarily a way for holistic practitioners
without real qualifications to say, number one, this is a
thing that I can like put in a frame, right,
I can have it up in my office or whatever,
and it looks like I've it looks like a certification.
Right to somebody who doesn't know anything. And it's also
kind of a way to say I don't prescribe medications,

(23:36):
So you can't get angry at me for saying I'm
a doctor, right and giving someone wild honey for their
lymphatic cancer or whatever, because I that's just not the
kind of doctor that I am. NBC reached out to
the group's director and were like, hey, this absolute con
man who robbed a lady said that he was certified
by your organization, And the guy who runs the AADP

(23:56):
was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Our credentials don't confer the
ability to diagnose your treat patients, right, that's not what
this is about. So like, what the fuck is it about?
It's just there so quack doctors can stick a thing
on their wall, right.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
I recognize also that I might sound a bit hypocritical
here when I say this, but because I'm a member
of the Universal Life Church and I'm al so I
can do That's the next paragraph, BROD.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
So this guy, the head of the AADP says that, like,
because Malachi lied about being a doctor, we've kicked him
out of the AADP. You know, we police our own right,
And I'm going to continue from NBC here. This is
where we bring in the Universal Life Church. In addition,
Love Robinson's doctorate was from the online Universal Life Church Seminary.
According to documents released by the Florida Department of Health,

(24:48):
the degree in Divinity can be bought from the site
for twenty nine to ninety five. You will be legally
entitled to use the title doctor in front of your name,
indeed after your name, the website says. Now, look, covet,
I also have have used the Universal Life Church to
allow me to do things to people, like marry them.
That was a creepy way to phrase that.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
Did things to people, for sure, some people might say
that's invasive.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Look, the Universal Life Church has meant a lot of
fun for all of us. There's but there's no reason
to include the line you will be legally entitled to
use the title doctor unless you're selling this for scammers
who are going to run cons like we can all
agree that, right, there's no other reason to say that.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
I have to. I have to say yes, I do agree,
and that bothers me to be honest with you. So
I did it also so I could marry some of
my friends. I mean, I didn't marry them myself. I
married not but we know. Yeah, so you know, but
I thought the term that you could use was healer.
I didn't realize you could use the word doctor. I
feel like that is a big difference.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well, because it's the doctorate of divinity.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
Yeah, you didn't have to worry about that, you already
have that title.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yeah, this is true. Yeah, I guess maybe I wasn't
paying attention. I'll have to look back at that.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Speaking of the Universal Life Church, you know, who else
has the right to marry anyone they want.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
I'm gonna guess Blue Apron can marry people. Really, if
you don't want to get married, they can force you
to get married.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
They can, and they often do. Look if you see
anyone with the Blue Apron armband, run run for your life.
Your freedom means nothing to them. Ah, we're back back.
Hold up in three separate, undisclosed locations, hiding from Blue

(26:40):
Aprons shock troops as they as they comb the West Coast.

Speaker 5 (26:46):
Another Apron conspiracy that our listeners are gonna take to
be true.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, yeah, you know, Sophie, I thought I was going
to be better about this sort of thing. But it's
like we always say on the show Power corrupts and
it's all also really fun to be corrupt. So I'm
just going to keep going.

Speaker 5 (27:03):
You are such a healer, doctor Maggie.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Please, thank you, Reverend doctor Evans. That's a real one though.
That comes from the state of New Jersey, you know,
and that's an actual state allegedly.

Speaker 4 (27:13):
That it comes from the state of New Jersey.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
Wow, they have trees, they have nice trees, and they
got nice trees.

Speaker 4 (27:20):
My old boss, Dan O'Brien sopranos, sopranos.

Speaker 5 (27:24):
That's three good things that you get your taxes.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Great.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
So the state of Florida, play against type stopped allowing
natura paths to examine patients in nineteen fifty seven. I
was actually shocked when I heard this.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
That it's better than I mean thought Florida would be
doing on that. Even what their surgeon general is doing currently,
that is amazing. That must have been done well before
he was there.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, I mean, this is fifty seven right now. And
it's also not as good as it sounds, because well,
they're not allowed to examine patients, they are allowed to
consult on patients, and this is kind of the gray
area that doc Love was hoping to sail through once
he got caught right that, like, I'm not treating patients,
I'm consulting. I have the right, but like he also
stole a bunch of people, right, money from people, and
in addition to stealing money from people the way that

(28:12):
he was able to like because he was he was
like billing Medicare too for the treatments that he was doing,
because he's working these old ladies. And you know, as
you I'm sure you know, Kava. In order to bill Medicare,
you have to have what's called an NPI or national
provider number. This is the number that Medicare and also
health insurance companies use it to identify physicians for the

(28:33):
purpose of approving billing rights.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
To give you Roberts a stop asking.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, well, all I need is your signature for right now.
When I first started looking at A. Malachi's case, it
was not clear to me how he faked his NPI,
and the articles I read seemed to be kind of
like confused on the matter, right, I think there were
a couple of different theories positive but when I looked
into it, this is what's getting into the actual like
over conspiracy sea of the episode, it's like, anyone can

(29:00):
fake an MPI. It's the easiest thing in the world
to do. There is absolutely no protections stopping people from
faking this.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
And why that.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Is the case, and how health insurance companies play into
it is kind of going to be the big overarching
theme of the episode. But what matters for the moment
is that once he's in the system and he's got
his NPI, he found it easy to get his information
added to various online databases of medical practitioners, which helped
him fill out his faux resume. Right after he got
caught and loudly proclaimed that the newsman covering his case

(29:31):
would all see it was just a misunderstanding, he disconnected
his phone and put up a Facebook page claiming he
had stage two kidney cancer. Then he took down his
Facebook in one yeah dad, like eighteen something like that. Yeah,
I don't think so. Bro Malachi was sentenced to twenty
eight months in jail, and in the interim period where
his case went forward, he left the state of Florida

(29:54):
illegally and tried to buy a thirty five thousand dollars
Jaguar in Virginia, accompanied by a very old, and he
was planning to trick into buying the car for him.
Oh god, when when questioned, he varyingly identified the woman
as his mother and godmother, and like it was such
an obvious scam that I think it's like the car
dealers who turn him in, and like, if you're too

(30:14):
shady for a car salesman, holy shit, you gotta really
be doing something that's like, that's like a guy at
a gun store not selling you a gun. You have
to have you have to be really really putting out
bad vibes.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
Where was it? Where was it?

Speaker 2 (30:34):
This isn't like, uh Virginia, Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (30:38):
Used car dealer somewhere in Virginia. Was like, no, maybe
it wasn't used. I don't know. Yeah, not gonna do it?
Well do it. And this is why.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
We're not gonna be able to do a whole episode
on Doctor Love. He gets caught very early, right he
he he flew too close to the sun, and now
he's kind of he's dropped out of the medical stuff
and he's just another incompetent serial scammer.

Speaker 5 (30:59):
You know.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Obviously the prison did not help him. You know, whatever
he had that made him want to do this in
the first place, it just made worse and now he's
like fucked up, probably because prison's traumatic and he just
so he just keeps doing other scams. He gets released
in twenty twenty, and he's immediately arrested again for trying
to defraud his new employer by having like payments from

(31:20):
shipping companies diverted to his private account. It was all
these are all like bad cons and like I read
one article with a quote from him where he's just
like sobbing, He's like, sorry, please don't send me back
to jail. It's a fucking bummer because like this this
kid did as fucked up, but he was also eighteen
and like, yeah, clearly locking him up did not. It
hasn't made it better, you know.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
I mean, I'm torn because on one hand, if I
wasn't a doctor, I might appreciate this, you know, little
rascal for what he's been up to, but it's not
a rascal. It's bad, yeah, he's but he is a naughty,
naughty young man. Yeah, and to use what little goodwill
we still have as doctors and abuse it makes me

(32:01):
very upset.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
So it is it is.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
I'm torn. I'm torn on this one. But I am
sort of glad that he is at least a name
that people hopefully recognize and can google and can be like,
this guy is full of shit.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
I mean, that's certainly important. I just am also like, well,
fuck locking him up. He just keeps doing cons. Like, clearly,
whatever the solution if you want. If the solution is
this kid is not able to like do cons anymore,
you're left with either just put him lock him up forever,
which doesn't seem right, or something else. I don't really
know what that else is, but putting him in jail

(32:35):
for two years did not stop him from trying to
hurt people. It does seem like the fact that he
is now kind of a famous con artist has made
it easy to catch him.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah, so that's clearly part.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Of Like publicizing this is clearly part of the solution.
Right Anyway, when I first came about this story and
the next one we're going to talk about, which is
much more severe, much more severe, oh my god, it's
one of the worst things I've ever heard of in
the medical profession. Kaba again, I was just got to
cover these as kind of here's like a pot pourrie
episode of some fake doctors. But both of these people

(33:10):
we're going to talk about today, Malachi and the frauds
were about to discuss, got away with what they did
because they abused the NPI system. And that tickled something
in the back of my brain, and as I started
digging around, I came to a realization. But I want
to I'm going to take you to that process organically.
I just want people to know there's something more here.
This is not just going to be like an assortment

(33:31):
of fucked up tales.

Speaker 5 (33:33):
Right.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
So the next place we're going to go is the
tragic story of the Jenkins family, Sherry Anne and Oliver. Now,
Oliver was a real doctor, the only one we will
be talking about in this episode, right. He was an
e n t ear nosen throat specialist. But that you know,
you got to stare down a lot of people's nasty
throats to do that job, right, and more importantly, doing

(33:57):
that does not pay enough for the comfort of missus
sherry Anne Jenkins, Right, this is going to be a
problem for her.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
You know, it's not a bad saying gig. Though I'm curious,
I'm not a.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Big You're right, you think you could live very confetly,
especially since Shery Anne is not a medical doctor, but
she is a PhD. Now I can't say and what.
I haven't found any evidence as to what, but like
real newspapers cite her as being a PhD.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
She's yeah, maybe universe versa life jeards, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
She was born in nineteen fifty nine, and in November
of twenty thirteen, when she was around fifty four years old,
she and her husband started a section. So her husband
works for the Toledo Clinic. That's how it's named in
like the court filings, and they started a cognitive center
at the Toledo Clinic. So you've got this real clinic
where there are multiple real doctors doing real procedures and

(34:47):
really treating patients. And her husband, a real doctor, starts
a cognitive center there. Now you might think that's a
little odd because he's an E and T doctor, right
the here knows and throat are important, but they are
notably not the brain.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
I'm waiting to I'm willing to see how they connected this.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, but I think Sherry Anne is she has like
some like her PhD is in like some sort of
neuro science sort of thing. But it's not like she's not, again,
not at all a medical doctor. So Sherry is the
one who's actually doing all of the work at the
cognitive center. But she's using her husband's practitioner number, his
NPI number to invoice medicare. Now, she is doing the

(35:28):
exams herself, she is doing the treatment herself, she is
prescribing medicine herself. She's just using her husband's inn PI number.
That alone is several kinds of fraud.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
Super bad. Not supposed to be doing that, super bad.
People go to school for this sort of thing. Yeah,
I mean, and doctors will work with nurse practitioners, physicians, assistants.
There's there's they work with non doctors of course. Yeah,
you don't work with a PhD who has no medical.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Training to do exactly when you especially when you're talking
about like weird cognitive rare things. It's very likely that
you would have a real doctor who might work with
someone who's got like a PhD in neuroscience, and that
person would contribute to them figuring out what to do.
But the doctor is still the one doing the diagnosis
and whatnot and filing these things. From what I can

(36:17):
discern from past reporting and court records, the actual scam
here was very simple, very simple, and very vile. The
Jenkins Is found out that one of the things Medicare
pays really well for is ordering pet scans and diagnosing
people with Alzheimer's, Like it's a it's a good payment
that you get for doing these things. Right, So because

(36:39):
the Medicare rates for these the tests that you have
to do this are are pretty good, and because most
people find Alzheimer's the most terrifying diagnosis imaginable, if you
tell them that they have Alzheimer's, they will immediately agree
to whatever kind of ongoing treatment you tell them they
need to take. Right But in part because there's kind
of overwhelmed with the numb shock that comes with getting diagnosed,

(37:00):
like that is a your life, at least in the
way most people see it. I'm sure there have been
I dealt with. I have a family history of well
we thought it was Alzheimer's. They tended to be Louis body,
but for the whole time that she lived with us,
we thought my grandmother had Alzheimer's. They look very similar.
So I'm aware of like how jarring this is and
what a kind of a disorienting thing this is, especially
if you're younger when it happens.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Right.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
So they seem to be taking advantage of both of
these facts. Number one, the rates that we get for
doing the tests to diagnose Alzheimer's are.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Really good, right.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
And number two, if you tell someone they have Alzheimer's,
it shocks them enough that they don't think too much
about what else you're going to start asking them.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
Right.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
These two things are kind of key to the kN
So I guess it's possible that Cherry Inn is to
some extent diluted about her capabilities, right, that she really
thought that she was diagnosing some of these people because
some of the people she diagnosed with Alzheimer's did turn
out to have Alzheimer's. Now, that's not so weird, Nor
does it really hint that she was actually more competent

(38:03):
than you might think, because this is a cognitive clinic
that specialized in people who are having like memory issues, Right,
And if that's your business, a decent number of the
people who come to you will in fact have Alzheimer's, Right. Yeah,
But what's important is that while some of the folks
she diagnosed did have the thing she diagnosed them with,
she was giving out the diagnosis like candy to basically

(38:23):
everyone who came in with any kind of memory issue,
right And not only was she billing for the tests
that would have been necessary if you were looking for Alzheimer's,
she would build for tests that were unnecessary even if
that is what you were doing, and she was not
actually performing these tests. Right now, telling someone that they
have Alzheimer's when they don't is one of the worst

(38:44):
things that you can do to a person, and this
quote from an article in the Chicago Tribune gets across
how disorienting her diagnoses were to the patients that she
was tricking. Quote Sean Blazak knew a string of concussions
from high school football and boxing was catching up with him.
He would go days without sleeping and was forgetting how
to tie his shoes. Still at age thirty three, he

(39:04):
was stunned after being told he had Alzheimer's disease. He
started planning out who would take care of his four
kids if something happened to his wife, and he thought
about how hard it would be for them when he
could no longer recognize his family. So he stuffed fistfuls
of sleeping pills into a bottle and wrote himself a
note vowing to swallow all of them if he wasn't
able to remember the names of his children.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
Oh Jesus, that is fuzzy, devast fucking devastating, because again,
it's one of these situations. It's one of these situations
where there is like this gray zone where it's a hord.
A lot of times these neurological diagnoses are really difficult
to do with course, and that's why we have neurologists
like specifically and psychiatrists too, who specifically work in these areas.

(39:46):
And again, when there's any sort of doubt, when there's
any sort of question, these these people come in and
they fill that space. And that's what. Oh, it's so terrible.
Thirty three year old and just like to end his
life if he has one bad day.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's a fucking nightmare. But you know
what's not a nightmare, cove.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Ah, I'm gonna guess it's the wonderful products and or
services this program. That's right.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
We are sponsored by the concept of not being a
professional boxer, so please please avoid that.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
It turns out it's very bad for you. We're back.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
What if instead of face punching. Boxing was all dick punches.
That could a better show, right, Yeah, I mean no.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Chronic traumatic encephalitis. There's no like, you know, connection to
Parkinson's as far as I know, I think, just as
long as they're okay with the fact that they're probably
not going to have kids, just punch each other in
the dick a lot.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah, yeah, just dick punches.

Speaker 5 (40:58):
Mike, Mike Tyson and Jake Paul the funniest thing they
do right now.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
I would pay so much money to watch that fight.
Mike Tyson would just evaporate chickballs. It would be gone,
like like when you blow on one of those those
flowers that's got a million little seats. Do you guys
ever watch the slap fights, like where people like slap

(41:22):
each other, Like, yeah, sure, that that's insane, that that's
a thing that happens. That's so. I see a couple
of these videos where they get so hard that they
start to like get into these weird like positions. Is
bad for you, Like I think they're having like brain damage,
like actively you can see from like the seizures are having.
It's terrible. Sports are fun. I think we should go.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
I just found out it used to be an Olympic event.
It was dueling where you would shoot like wax bullets
at each other and you would wear like protective vests.
And I think we should go back to that. I
feel like, there's no yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Why not watch people shoot each other on television with
guns that can't kill them? Much better than punching each
other's faces until their brains melt.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Yeah, I'm listening. I'm open to it.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Yeah, let's do it, folks. Anyway, we're back, folks. Another
absolutely well. Another of the Jenkins' victims is Deborah Schmidt.
Deborah was diagnosed in twenty fifteen by Sherry with Alzheimer's. Now,
one of the things you noted is that, like, this
is tough. These are not diseases that we have a
great handle on. So mistakes get made, and Debor did

(42:30):
what you should do in that situation. She went to
another doctor for a second opinion. First, she goes to
another guy who works at the clinic I think that
she had just worked with before, James Aubril, and she
was like, Hey, I don't think I have Alzheimer's, but
this guy, this lady, says I do. And James counseled
her to go back in and is like, well, you know,
I'm sure that the clinic is a real clinic, so

(42:53):
you should probably just like keep going in. So she
goes back to the clinic and she does a cognitive test.
Cherry Anne is like, yeah, you've definitely got Alzheimer's even.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
More time, even more super Alzheimer's. Now you have meg Alzheimer's.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Now and then and then says, if you want to
slow the advance, the only thing that could help is
coconut oil.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Oh man, come on, people, I know everyone falls for
a scam. I believe it. I believe there's a scam
for everybody. I believe it for sume on.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Look, there's a lot of great things about coconut oil.
It tastes good. I think it's relatively heart healthy. Don't
quote me on that.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
Yeah, I mean, if you want to cook with it, fine,
it's not going to cure you're Alzheimer's. Now.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
I did look into this because I was like, I
hadn't actually heard of this. I was, is this like
a thing in like bullshit medicine circles? And it sure is.
And the explanation for this is that there is a
substance contained in coconut oil, caprilic acid, that may be
useful as part of a treatment for Alzheimer's. Studies are ongoing,

(43:56):
and medicine that contains caprilic acid is in stage two
clinical trials. Now number one, that doesn't mean that it works,
but number two, that's not the same as coconut oil
halting Alzheimer's.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
Right, this is a super important point and if I
can just make a quick stop it, Yeah, what will
happen a lot in medicine is you'll see a headline
they'll say like this spice will help with this cancer,
and we're in reality it's like maybe some component that's
in this food or this spice may have something in
it that if taken out and produced in a different

(44:28):
way and given to you in the right way, might
if the studies show. But in reality, for example, everyone
talked about turmeric how it helps your liver, but in
reality there is one component of it that does seem
to help, but when you take it, it gets broken
down into an inactive component that doesn't help your liver.
So taking it like orally taking it for food great.
These things are oftentimes harmless. Sometimes they are harmful. But

(44:50):
usually the harmless. But the studies aren't necessarily there yet
to prove that they help. In this case, this acid,
if it's studied and it shows to be helpful in
specific ways, it won't be getting it through coconut oil.
It will be like like a compound of it that's
really high quantities that you could take. So it's not
to be when you read these headlines that say something like,

(45:13):
you know, eating this blank thing will help your diabetes. Mean,
there might be some kernel of truth to it, but
it's a long way from that to something clinically important.
I beg people to keep that in mind.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
It's the thing like people only do this with foods,
right because if you hear, hey, they found a spider
in the Amazon, that's venom is going to it can
be like we think will be part could be used
to like make a cancer treatment. Right, Well, you understand
that what that means is that there's some compound in
the venom that when isolated and added probably to a
cocktail of other compounds, might be useful in some sort

(45:47):
of cancer treatment. You don't believe, Well, if I've got cancer,
I need to fly to the Amazon and get that
spider to bite me right, that's not. But if you
hear that like a compound and fucking avocados might be
a useful part of a case answer treatment, you'll always
get grifters being like, don't go to the doctor for
your cancer, eat a million avocados, And no, that's not
how avocado's work. That's not how cancer works. Please don't

(46:09):
do this exactly. And that is the case with this, right.
There is no evidence whatsoever that coconut oil itself can
stop or hault the progression of Alzheimer's. A lot of
this myth took off in twenty fifteen, which is the
year that this is. That's why she says it right,
because it was in vogue then, and it's in vogue
thanks to doctor Mary Newport. Doctor Mary Newport started claiming

(46:31):
that a regiment of coconut oil had given her quote
a few extra good years with her husband after he
was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's. I am sure Mary's
case is very sad, but there is no evidence to
support the claim made on the website US against Alzheimer's
when it covered her story. Quote, what if a spoonful
of coconut oil each day, We're all it took to
reverse or slow down the symptoms of Alzheimer's. Now there

(46:54):
is research as to whether or not just coconut oil
itself might have a positive impact act on Alzheimer's. Research
does not mean evidence, it means research. I found a
twenty twenty two article on CTV News announcing the start
of a study by the Health Bird Alzheimer's Institute to
study the impact of coconut oil versus a placebo on
sixty five Alzheimer's patients. That article notes that it is

(47:17):
the first clinical trial of its kind, but also admits
there is currently no clinical data showing the benefits of
coconut oil on the prevention and treatment of dementia. Newport,
whose husband Steve was diagnosed with Alzheimer's at age fifty one,
said she began to see improvements after YadA, YadA, YadA. Right,
So that's all there is. Right now, there is a
study that has not we have no evidence on and

(47:39):
there is no actual evidence that just coconut oil helps.
Is this lady felt like it helped her husband, And
I don't have any problem with like, yeah, sure, do
a study, right, see see if you find anything. I
do have a problem with blasting the internet with like,
take a spoonful of coconut oil to now if you're
also doing treatment, you know, and you just add a
spoonful of coconut oil that makes you feel better, there's

(48:01):
no harm to it. You're not gonna you're not gonna
damage anybody by giving them a spoonful of coconut oil
each day. But like, don't do it in lieu of
medical treatments, right, yeah, and don't also pretend people have
Alzheimer's when they're not.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
If I could also add one thing to that for listeners,
if you ever feel like you need to get a
second opinion, do so. Yes, you're not going to offend
your doctor. Like every doctor has a patient, go seek
a second opinion. That is okay. We want what's best
for We're supposed to want what's best for you, and
if some other doctor has a better idea of how
to do that, we're all for it. So if you

(48:36):
feel like some and it sometimes it's even if you
like what the doctor's telling you, but you still want
to get another opinion, we understand. If a doctor doesn't
get that, that's on them. That's weird, and most of
us will get it.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Yeah, it's one of those things like, yeah, probably unreasonable
to go to a second opinion if you've got a
flu or whatever, right, but like Alzheimer's is a big deal,
And like I said, you're like, they misdiagnosed my grandma. Now,
given the state of Alzheimer's and Louis body treatment in
the early two thousands, I don't think it would have
many difference, Like you're not going to like give them
like we just didn't have a good handle on either
of them. You know, that's just the reality of the situation.

(49:10):
So I don't know if miss Schmidt, who's the woman
who's gotten diagnosed with Alzheimer's by Sherry Ann and then
told to take coconut oil. I don't know if she
like googled around and was like, there's no fucking evidence
that this shit is in Alzheimer's treatment. But and I
kind of think that's what happened because she refuses to
take it, right, She's like, no, I'm not going to
fucking take your coconut oil. I don't trust your diagnosis.

(49:32):
Sherry Anne Jenkins reported her as non compliant in her
official paperwork, and Chastis Schmidt then build Medicare twelve hundred
and sixty seven dollars for the visit God. Now I
found Schmid's experience chronicled in a lawsuit against the Jenkinses
filed on behalf of Schmidt and others by the United
States government. This is not super important, but it is
very funny to me how this lawsuit opens. Now comes

(49:55):
the United States of America buy and through relaters Deborah A.
Schmidt and Mary case Smith for their complaint state and
averre the following. I just love that is the United
States of America three hundred and ten pounds and six
foot seven baby.

Speaker 5 (50:13):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
So the good news here is that Schmidt did seek
a second opinion. She did not just take Jenkins's diagnosis,
which is why again it's important.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
To do that.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
And in fact, a team of doctors at the Cleveland
Clinics see her and they're like, what the fuck is
this Jenkins lady talking about you're fine, right, And in
fact it's it's such a like that she goes to
one doctor and eventually a whole team of them look
her over and are like, yeah, you don't have Alzheimer's, right,
You're just kind of old and forgetting a couple of things,
but like you, there's no evidence of Alzheimer's. So when

(50:45):
she learns this, she goes back to the Toledo clinic
and she tells that neurologist she had been talking to,
doctor Aubril Hey Jenkins fucked up, to which the good
doctor applied. I don't even want to hear that woman's name. Now,
this is a story that's more worth more reporting. I'd
really like to see a good documentary about this case.
I'm sure one will come out eventually, because I don't

(51:06):
really fully know how there's you certainly get you certainly
can see that, like over time, some of the other
doctors at the clinic, outside of the cognitive clinic realize
something shady is going on. I don't know if they're aware.
I don't think they're aware that she is actually diagnosing
patients and carrying out tests right because she's using her

(51:26):
husband's NPI and she's not supposed to be doing that,
But they seem to be aware that, Like she's full
as shit. So another client is Mary Smith. Mary sees
an article on the Toledo's Cognitive Clinic made up as
part of a PR blitz by the clinic that the
Jenkinses were running right. Mary had been concerned about her memory,
and she saw an ad in a local magazine that

(51:48):
claimed Sherry and used quote neurocognitive testing coupled with pet
CT scans that allowed her to see what part of
a brain is functioning well and design protocols for each patient. Now,
I'm not a doctor. That's is that more or less
how it's supposed to work, right? That seems like basically
how it's supposed to work.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
PET scans for Alzheimer's.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
So that's not how it's supposed to see. I'm not
the doctor here, so that's not right.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
Well, I mean, I'm not a neurologists, so it's a
bit on my wheelhouse. But SKI scans, for sure, I don't.
I mean interesting you can make you you could make
an argument like what activity is lighting up? What metabolic
activity lights up? So a PET scan will look at
metabolic activity. So if you're looking for cancer, for example,
you like do a PET scan and it'll light up

(52:31):
in certain parts of your body where there's lots of
metabolic activity, lots of things turning over, like a cancer
would do lots of growth, lots of turnover. So I
don't know, maybe they do it for the brain. I
don't know. I'd have to ask neurologists, but it seems
like what's very hand wavy.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
What's important for this story is that they're lying about
doing those tests, in large part because using those machines
is expensive. You get to build medicare for them. But
it's still like a thing, right, and you don't Your
clinic usually does not have one. Right, maybe the whole
has has access to one, but like your little cognitive center,
you don't have your own. And it seems like the

(53:05):
ginguss are trying to avoid kind of interacting with the
rest of the Toledo clinic as much as possible. So
when Smith comes in, instead of giving her a PET
or a CT scan, she gives her a verbal test,
tells her she's failed, and then she finds an old
MRI scan of Smith's brain that was just on file
at the clinic, not a current one, and diagnoses her

(53:26):
with Alzheimer's based on that. Right, So that's all a
little shady.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
It's all very shady, And I'm sorry just to cut
in because I just looked up real quick. So it
looks like because there's different types of PET scans, the
type that we normally look at is called FDG, which
is like the concentration of glucose and looks at like
metabolic activity. So the one you apparently can use, and
again a neurologist is going to correct me on this one,
for this is amyloid PET to measure the build up

(53:52):
of amyloids, like a protein that can build up. It's
one of the key hallmarks of Alzheimer's, so it can
look for build up of this protein. So there is
a use for a specific type of PET ST scan. Okay, okay, yeah,
and I had to get that up. No, no, And
after this, she orders a real PET scan for Smith,
and this again shows why she didn't like to do

(54:13):
that because it puts Smith in the same room as
a real doctor, the attending radiologist, right, and the radiologist
does the PET scan, is like, hey, you know, this
isn't my wheelhouse, but like everything looks fine to me,
you know, just like you should have your doctor look
this over because they're supposed to be the expert. But
from what I can see, it doesn't look like you
have Alzheimer's. So Smith goes home and is like, whoo,
that's a load off my mind. The radiologist said, I'm

(54:35):
probably fine, And then later that night, Jenkins calls her
at home and is like, the radiologist was wrong.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
You've got the himers. You got to come back tomorrow
and bring your whole family with you. Do doctors not
say you've got the himers when they're diagnosing al Zeiper's
cotton They should it's not bad. And she's like, yeah,
bring in your whole family. They all need to be here, right,
because you can't trust your brain no more. So Smith
does this and she tells her family and brings them in,

(55:02):
and Jenkins like sits her down. She's like, you have
Alzheimer's And she tells her family you all have to
take care of her now, right. She can't be on
her own. You know, you're no longer an independent person. Also,
I'm going to have to do a telephone consult with
you every three weeks and an office visit every three
months for the rest of the time that she's alive.

(55:22):
And of course, Sherry Amn, this is the situation she
wants to lock every patient into because that means you
get to build like sixteen hundred bucks for every one
of these visits, and that's a really regular income.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
Stream.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
She's just locked in medical gas lighting twenty some grand
a year for herself just with that one patient.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
It's gaslighting at the highest level. It's like amazing, and.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
There's no real cost to the clinic. But Sherry's time, right,
because this is just this person coming in and being told, hey,
take some fucking coconut oil. Right, so she effectively and
again obviously you can see if you can do that
with ten people two hundred grand a year, twenty people
four under grande, right, Like, this is like a sizable
amount of money that you can make doing this, in

(56:04):
addition to the upfront cost which is probably in the
ten to twenty grand of just like getting them diagnosed.
But it also what you're looking at here, if you're
talking about on a one to one basis, she is
upending and destroying people's lives for about the price of
a nice used car every year. Like that's that's what's
actually going on here. So here's what the court case

(56:27):
against the Jenkins' lists as the prescription she gave this
woman for Alzheimer's treatment. Sa Jenkins prescribed Smith take six
teaspoons of coconut oil per day, an all organic, GMO
free diet and daily exercise. Sa Jenkins advice Smith she
only had three to five more years left to work
before the disease would take its toll, and requested that
Smith and her husband volunteer at the Alzheimer's adult daycare

(56:49):
so they could see where Smith was heading in the
near future.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
Horrible do you want to know? When I bet you
she was doing she was setting the groundwork for the
fact that because I don't think she was believe this,
I'm getting the sense that this is all a skin.
She's not like a true believer and just is deluded
about her you know abilities. But like what she's probably
hoping to do is to be like five years down
the road, be like I guess the treatment's really helping because.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Yea, oh man, now that that would be Thankfully she
doesn't get to that point, but I honestly a good
doctor that would be that would be kind of funny.
So Oliver Jenkins the actual doctor again, and her husband
Cherryan's husband never saw Smith, and he never saw most

(57:35):
of the people that his wife was diagnosing. Obviously, Smith
is distraught when she gets this diagnosis, and she also
thankfully seeks a second opinion from a real doctor who
looks at her and is like, this doesn't look like
Alzheimer's to me, but hey, we'll do a pet scan
just to make sure, and oh yeah, still know Alzheimer's.
But because this guy's a real doctor, he's like, you

(57:55):
know what, you have one positive diagnosis. I showed nothing,
but let's bring a third doctor in just to be
really sure that you don't have Alzheimer's, right, So he
refers her to yet another doctor, who backs up the
confirmation that she's fucking fine. Right, The Toledo clinic had
built Medicare four thousand and thirty six dollars for this
bullshit diagnosis, So Smith is furious, right, But at this

(58:18):
point she's also like, well, maybe I just ran into
a bad doctor who like fucked up right, Like, it's
not clear from one case as the individual. Is this
lady just like shitty at her job, or have I
fallen into some elaborate scheme. So when sherry Ann calls
her and is like, hey, so when are you coming
in for your every rest of your life visits? You know,

(58:39):
to get told to take coconut oil. You gotta let
me treat you, Smith is like, fuck off, We're not
going to you anymore. So not a doctor, Jenkins send
Smith a letter, quote, our physician patient relationship is ineffective
and I can no longer continue to provide services to
you as your provider. Therefore, this letter will serve as
my notice of my intent to discontinue our physician patient

(58:59):
relationship and ship. Now this seems to have rubbed that,
doesn't Is that something you do?

Speaker 3 (59:05):
I've never done that. I've never okay, I mean, I'm
trying to think if I've ever fired, for lack of
better word, a patient. And maybe it was like one
time when I got threatened by somebody who was not
quite you know. It's a good place. So they and
that might be the only time, but I didn't like
them like a letter. I don't. I don't think we
do that very commonly.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
No, and this isn't even that, because this is the
patient says I'm not going to go to you anymore,
and you send them a letter firing them, which is
like a weird and petty.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
Yeah, it's like weirdly, it's like battling petty. The response,
the correct response is I'm sorry. I hope you find
someone who treats you right. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
So this seems to have rubbed Smith the wrong way
getting this letter. So she goes to the radiologist at
the Toledo Clinics, so at the Broader clinic that the
cognitive clinic that the Jenkins run is at, and she's like, hey, uh,
you know that pet scan you did? That seemed I
was fine. Well here's what happened afterwards, right, So this
radiologist tells her, oh, yeah, all of the radiologists at

(01:00:04):
the Toledo clinic went to the executive board recently to
lodge an official complaint that Jenkins does not know what
she's doing. Their complaint included the line she has diagnosed
everyone with Alzheimer's. And then in the court case after
this is announced, there's an utterly baffling paragraph that I'm
hoping you can help me make sense of.

Speaker 5 (01:00:22):
Kave.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
The radiologist also stated that sa Jenkins had misdiagnosed his
own twenty one year old daughter with Alzheimer's disease. He
further stated that he had destroyed all of the medical
records pertaining to his daughter and recommended that Smith do
the same with regard to her records. What's going on there?
Hold on, Hold on, hold on, I'm confused. So the
real doctor Jenkins, Yeah, he I read the radiologist.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
He diagnosed a radiologist's daughter.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Yeah, no, Sherry Anne, the not real doctor, the wife
who was not at all any kind of doctor, non
doctor diagnoses the radiologist's twenty one year old daughter with Alzheimer's.
And then the radiologist said, I destroyed all of the
medical records pertaining to my daughter from that case, and
you should do the same. Why would you do that?

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
It does not seem like there's any good reason to
do that unless he was somehow in on the scam.
I don't understand that. Why would you You would never
do First of all, you never destroy medical records. Like
it's one of those things where like the the lie
is worse than the actual act. You're not supposed to
You just can't do that. It's just like, we're not
supposed to do that. Why would just take his daughter,

(01:01:33):
a twenty one year old for why?

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Why would he not look at the images himself? And
why would he not feel like twenty one is sort
of I mean, there is early onset Alzheimer's. Yeah, come on,
twenty one, you're a doctor man, something fishy something clearly
like something.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
I mean, he is saying that, like he and a
bunch of others went to the clinic leadership and said,
this person's a scammer. So it seems like he and
I kind of I kind of suspect a thing with
his daughter could be as simple as like maybe there's
a work party, right.

Speaker 5 (01:02:06):
Was he was he using his daughter, who we know,
who he knew was like super healthy, as like a
test to catch the match.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
Maybe that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
I also think it could be like maybe there's like
a work party and Jenkins runs into his daughter and
just like in the process of a conversation diagnosis her
with all cyber because.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
Slip into my scan over here for a moment. Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
Don't know whatever it is sketch.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Again, I know, we have like a bunch of professional
journalists and TV people. Here's a great this is like
a solid six episode Netflix documentary, right like you could,
or at least a good tight ninety minutes right like
somebody does because I want there's a lot of questions
I do half about this still unanswered.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Yeah, hire Robert and I just to be the CT test.
Absolutely will choose so much.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Scenery, absolutely, Yeah, and and bring in Pedro Pascal to
be I don't know, somebody I just want to have.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Bring him in, bring them in to be the daughter
and has.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Ranged Lee Pace can be can be Smith or someone.
I just want to have one really good lunch out
of this project.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
People.

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
That's the most you thing that has ever been said.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
The lawyer in this case is David zol And as
part of his claim against her, he noted that at
least thirty people were misdiagnosed and aware of it, right,
that like, we have tracked down thirty people who were
told they had Alzheimer's and didn't, which is you know,
potentially like six hundred grand a year, right and ongoing
visits and stuff conservatively. But also he's like, that's just

(01:03:32):
who we know, this lady. They were doing this for
four years. There's an unknown number of people that may
have been diagnosed by her, right, A lot of these
people are old. There's a good chance a non trivial
number of people died thinking they had Alzheimer's, you know.
But we're just like they were like eighty when they
came in, right, so they didn't have a lot longer
unraveling who was told, what has proved to be a
difficult process, and Zol claims there's and again that's the

(01:03:54):
lawyer claims, there's also evidence that Sherry Anne overbuild patients
for the fame care she was giving them in addition
to faking their care. His take was that she's simply greedy.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Their cognitive center grew a lot faster than anyone expected,
and it made a lot of money for the larger
Toledo clinic. And I think to the extent that there's
maybe some weird, shady stuff going on, right that's sort
of insinuated in that paragraph. Maybe the radiologists weren't able
to get anything done to get her fired because clinic
leadership was like, well, we don't really give a shit
money's coming. I don't actually know. What really sticks with

(01:04:25):
me is how predatory the process was. Sherry Anne and
her husband were not just giving fake diagnoses to scam medicare,
they were outright like hunting people. Zol claims, quote, many
times she would see the first person and have them
bring in their whole family, Soul said, And many times
she would diagnose the whole family. Right, because Alzheimer's can

(01:04:47):
be can't have a genetic component, at least I don't
know that it always does. But there are people for
whom it runs in the family. So she's like, your
whole family needs to get tested. And then boom boom,
boom boom, everybody's got Alzheimer's.

Speaker 4 (01:04:59):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
Well, she's like doing the Oprah free car thing. But
when you look at Alzheimer's, yeah you do have Alzheimer's. Yeah,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
And unfortunately this process is not just reckless and cruel,
it's deadly. And I'm going to quote now from reporting
in the Chicago Tribune. Kay Tayner was diagnosed with Alzheimer's
on her second visit to Jenkins, and then referred five
or six friends and family members to her office, including
her husband of forty eight years. All were told they
had the disease, she said, but her husband, Gary took

(01:05:29):
it hardest. He's got a smile that just lights up
the room. And I never saw it again, she said.
He just sunk in his chair. To me, he never
stood up again. He was never tall again.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
He gave up.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Gary fell into depression, spending his final week sitting in
a chair with his hands in his lap, until he
went into their garage and shot himself in the head.
She said an autopsy did not show any signs of Alzheimer's.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
This monster, I mean early Alzheimer's. Again, I'm not a neurologist,
but my general understanding is that it's I think under
the age of like sixty five, and there is like
a familial onset Alzheimer's, but it is really rare, and
it's it's like probably less than like one percent of
the total cases that you're gonna see. And like for

(01:06:14):
her to take advantage of this and give these people
these crushing diagnoses because you know, things have gotten a
little bit better and we do have new medicines kind
of coming down like the pipeline, but it's still a
really bad thing to get, especially at an earlier ages.
It's so it's so cynical, so callous that they would
do it to make I mean, I don't know, I know,

(01:06:37):
this is so stupid, and I'm like on the wrong
show to ask this, But how do people live themselves
when they do something like that? Like I don't understand,
like the how that how in her mind she's probably
the victim, that she's the hero of her own story. Yeah, say,
everyone is, but how is she spinning this. That's the
part I don't understand.

Speaker 5 (01:06:55):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Part of me is like, maybe it was a long
con and she's like, it won't really hurt them all,
tell them they're cured, and then I'll start selling fucking
olive or not all of a coconut oil supplements. I
don't know, but maybe it is just like I don't
care about people and I want money, you know, that
is sometimes the answer. Maybe she was deluded, right, maybe

(01:07:16):
there's some sort of mental illness she's got going on,
But honestly, I feel like that's probably less likely than
just like this person was a monster.

Speaker 5 (01:07:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
I don't know, but I mean, you know, at this point,
I don't know that. Well, maybe if somebody does a
deeper reporting on it will get you know, I did
everything I could. I read like the court cases and stuff,
but this is a doctor death like podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Yeah, someone's got to turn this into that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Yeah, yeah, please do folks. I want to know more
about this. So the lawsuits against the Jenkins is inspired
an investigation by the FBI, right, and once they start
snooping around, it's over pretty soon for Oliver and Sherry.
And these people are not criminal masterminds. They have not
hidden their tracks very well. The Feds pressed charges. As
all these civil cases is wined through the court system,

(01:08:01):
and the Jenkinses are indicted by a grand jury, more
than sixty patients and family members who had been inaccurately
diagnosed would ultimately come forward. USA Today notes that in
addition to Gary's suicide, one patient took a six month
leave of absence from work and lost her job. Another
retired early and lost his retirement benefits. One man sold
his house so that he could move to be next

(01:08:23):
to his children. Another client was placed in a nursing home.
The good news is that both Jenkins's were found guilty
of conspiracy, mail fraud, wire fraud, and healthcare fraud. Sherry
was fined twenty five thousand dollars. Oliver was fined twenty
five thousand dollars. Both were sentenced to time in prison,
seventy one months for Sherry and forty one months for Oliver,

(01:08:45):
which is, you know, I don't know what the right
sentence is, but those are both real sentences.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
You know, I'm sorry you probably lost his license. Oh god, yeah,
So right now, that's a good long term solution for that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
I assume that the civil cases are going to take
a lot of money out of these people's hides, right, yeah, yeah,
And that's all a huge bummer, right, much more of
a bummer than Malachai's story, which is like kind of
sad that he's ruined his life a little, but like
more mostly just like wow, what a shit ad, Right,
this is really fucking sad, but it also you know, again,

(01:09:21):
I want to note, because we're going to come to
this in Part two, these stories are not isolated incidences.
They are all, in fact tied together in a certain way,
and specifically, they are tied together to a series of
things that explains why your healthcare is so expensive, why
it is so hard to get seen, and why it
is hard to find in network care when you needed.

(01:09:43):
All of this relates to why the Jenkinses were allowed
to do what they did, and that's what we're going
to talk about in part dou But first, cave, Yeah,
you speak French, and Pierre, I'm going to take that
as a yes, what do you do?

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
You?

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
Where do you go? Who are you?

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
What do you do? Just see the San Francisco That
means I'm from San Francisco. It's just sweet, doctor m
podcaster I am. That's French for I am a doctor
and a podcaster, and that's the extent of my French.
I have a podcast called The House of Pod. You
can find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. You can

(01:10:21):
follow me, uh if you like on Twitter at the
House of Pod. I just started making tiktoks because I'm
a complete sellout bitch. Okay, I'm crazy, you know. And
I do a little bit of medical stuff there, talking
about like medical topics that people are interested in. And
the show is fun if you like sort of delving

(01:10:43):
into bastards of medicine. We do a little bit of that,
but we also talk some of the good stuff about medicine.
We talked about what's new and hot, and we'll have
fun guests like I have an upcoming show with the
guy from EVE six and doctor Peter Hotez to talk
about COVID, so that that'll be fun.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
So the guy for me EVE six is my primary
care physician.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
He's pretty savvy, so I wouldn't put it past him.
He's pretty cool, but so and of course Robert's been
on the show, so yeah, listen to it. I think
feel like it anywhere you do your.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
Podcast out, check it out. And you know interesting fact, covet.
The French language actually has more than thirty different words
for podcaster that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
Makes sense, and they all are something to do with
like lippitit mill I.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
Think, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's one of them.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
Anyway, everybody go to Hell.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
I Love you.

Speaker 5 (01:11:38):
Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
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