Part Two: An American Fascist Faith

Robert is joined by Katy Stoll and Cody Johnston for a reading of Chapter Two of Robert's. 'The War on Everyone.'

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hmm, what's talking too much about? Come my Cody's part
two of my reading to my friends of the war
on everyone. I have armed myself additionally with a fistful
of plastic silverware packets. Sophie, No, I have to throw

(00:23):
the cans. She's trying to take my cans, my pressure.
I need all of these to throw now. Katie commented
during the show break that the oranges I have are
very soft and almost certainly bad. You're ready to burst
you you could touch it, lightly needed explode. I'm so

(00:43):
excited to throw those at the wall. So if you
just give me a withering look, that's her excited look.
That's her excited look. Look. Well, speaking of excitement, it's
time for part two, Chapter two. Because this is an
Adeo book, which is different from a seven part podcast
for reasons. I'm glad that I'm finally recording an audio book.

(01:07):
Maybe this will start my audiobook career, I think so.
Thank you for narrating the Katie parts that I wrote
ahead of time, he thought out loud. Chapter two, An
American Fascist Faith. At nine fifty a m. On October eighteen,
Robert Bowers entered the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

(01:29):
He carried a cult a R fifteen three glock handguns,
chambered in three fifty seven six body armor, and a
substantial amount of ammunition. Bowers proceeded to open fire during
a Shabbat morning service. He killed eleven of the seventy
five people worshiping at the synagogue that morning, and the
hours and days that followed, journalists and researchers in the
countering violent extremism community began to dig into Mr. Bowers's

(01:50):
social media presence and Internet footprint. If you read or
listen to any coverage about this, it probably focused on
his use of the social media website gab, which is
essentially Twitter for Nazis. Gab earned a lot of attention
because it's where Bowers chose to announce his attack and
his belief that a Jewish conspiracy was responsible. Sounds like
a teen girl magazine. It is. Yeah, yeah, it should

(02:12):
be in a sane world. Uh so, Yeah. Gab earned
most of the attention, Like the media coverage in the
wake of that attack. Gained attention for that attack mainly
because it was seen as like the place that radicalized
him um and it was, of course the place where
he announced the start of his attack. But in addition
to announcing the start of his attack on gab Robert
Bowers said other things on the site stranger things. In

(02:32):
various posts, he claimed that people of Anglo European descent
were the chosen people, with Jews as their ancient enemy.
He warned his fellow racists of a coming false flag
attack that would be quote one of the final desperate
attempts by the Jewish international oligarchy to maintain power in
the face of collapsing public trust in the media, which
he believed they controlled. On the profile page for his account,

(02:53):
Bowers included a quote Jews are the children of Satan.
A little more than two weeks before his rampage, he
reposted to link to the Wikipedia page for Christian identity.
Have you ever heard of Christian identity? Yeah? Exactly, that's
what we're getting into today. Uh So, he reposted a
link to the Wikipedia page for Christian identity and wrote
if the Jews hate it, then it must be truth. Now,

(03:17):
if you haven't heard much about Christian identity, don't worry.
Neither had I before Bowers went on his rampage. Um
A friend of mine, actually a woman named Sarah, who's
a CV researcher, is the person who like first said
that you should start looking into this ship, and as
soon as I did, I found that it connected to
basically everything that's ever happened in American fascism after World

(03:38):
War Two and kind of before it. Uh now. Christian
identity theology is not widely known in modern America, and
in fact, the vast majority of people who have been
influenced by it have probably never actually heard the term.
Bowers is sort of a rare figure in that he
was aware of it. Um it's been around for so
long and embedded itself so deeply in the consciousness of
the far right that it's woven itself into the DNA

(03:59):
of American facis M. Christian identity, however, did not begin
in America. The origin of this philosophy traces back to Britain,
in when a crazy person and retired navy man named
Richard Brothers started having visions. Rather than writing these visions
off as the result of bad can sardines or or
got poisoned bread, he decided that these visions were God

(04:19):
telling him that he had to lead the Jews back
to Palestide. Now. He also decided that he was a
descendant of the biblical King David, for reasons which are
slightly less clear. Revelation followed revelation, as they often do
for people with this sort of thing going on in
their brain, and by the time Richard Brothers was done,
he had concluded that the majority of Jewish people were
actually hidden in Britain. This hidden Israel, as he called it,

(04:43):
became one of the central tenets of British Israelism. Yeah,
all of the Jews are secretly British. Yeah, that's British
Israelism in a nutshell. Now, Brothers was eventually declared insane
by the state, which is probably fair. He was stuck
in an institution, which is probably unfair, from sevent to
eighteen o six. But in the four years before he

(05:05):
got locked up, he earned himself some followers, and although
his flock didn't stick together until he got out of
the asylum, some of his ideas persisted for years amongst
the fringes of British society. In eighteen forty, a writer
named John Wilson wrote Lectures on Our Israelitish Origin and
began lecturing across England and Ireland about the theory that
the real Jews were basically everyone but actual Jewish people.

(05:28):
According to the book Religion and the Right by Michael
barkun quote, the lectures depended less on the interpretation of
Biblical prophecy than on Wilson's attempt to demonstrate empirically that
the Lost Tribes had in fact migrated from the Near
East to Europe. Like many writers after him, one of
his favorite techniques was to look for words in different
languages that sounded the same, assuming, usually erroneously, that if
the words sounds were similar in the languages and their

(05:50):
speakers had to be connected this stuff. Yeah, yeah, since
similar sounds often crop up in otherwise unrelated languages, they
allowed Wilson claim and to believe that he had proved
that quote, many of our most common English words and
names of familiar objects are almost pure Hebrew. Yeah. It's

(06:10):
one of those things when you when you read like
early arguments as to why the Bible shouldn't be printed,
like back when like they wouldn't give out copies of
the Bible to people, like only the priest would have
a copy of the Bible. The Internet makes me have
a little bit more respect for those arguments. It's like,
oh yeah, maybe just letting everyone read everything is a
bad Maybe maybe human beings naturally look for patterns and

(06:33):
not all those patterns actually exists. Are irrelevant. I took
a sip of tea and started laughing, though, And Sophie,
can I have one of my Canada drives? I promise
I won't throw it. I love professionalism. That's the best
thing about podcasts is the professionals. And this one specifically

(06:54):
is the most professional. This one specifically is the most professional.
And as a mark of my professionalism, I'm gonna throw
the sack of clement Clementine's everywhere ads We're back, We're back.

(07:14):
There's oranges all over the floor, h Cody or any
of them oozing. No, that's a shame, that's unfortunate. I'm
gonna stomp on. Well, let's not remove them in the
hopes that they get forgotten and begin to rot and
dan All finds them. That's the dream, and it's a
dream that could be a reality. Just leave it for
a month and then you come back and there'll be

(07:35):
a bunch of flying at like what happened at our
office last night. I don't know if y'all remember but
months ago when we did the Rockwell episodes, I tossed
the coffee mate up on the ceiling of the poison rooms.
Still there are you guys looking forward to making some
coffee with that next year. So yeah, it's going to

(07:56):
be a laxing, one pump, one shit cottage cheese. Alright,
we're talking about British Israelism, the normal same concept of
British realism. Yes, the idea that the British people are
the Jews and the Jews are not the Jews all

(08:18):
makes sense. Well, at this point the Jews are still
the Jews, but also British people are secret Jews. That's
British is Realism in a enough shehell. So British Israelism
continued to evolve over the course of the eighteen hundreds.
Fella named he and added the assertion that Germans were
really Assyrians because apparently those people had gotten lost to
and wound up in Germany somehow. Hein claimed that the

(08:38):
United States was also full of Israelites. Now, at this point,
actual Jewish people, like real Jewish folks, were not seen
as bad guys. They were considered part of a greater
community called all Israel, which was made up of the
House of Israel, which was Europe, and the House of Judah,
which is actual Jewish people. Now, there was no evidence

(08:59):
for any of this at any point in time. This
was this was and I'm not using this was slow.
It was all just the result of a guy's mental
illness like that. That's what was going on, is this
was a sick man who had a dream about leading
the juice back to Palestine and read too much into that. Um,
so that's where this starts. Now, A fellow named Joseph

(09:20):
Wilde was the very first American British Israelite, or if
he wasn't the first, he's the first guy who tried
to popularize it here in the first one we have
any records of. Wild was a pastor at the Union
Congregational Church in Brooklyn. At this point, the theory or
whatever you would call it, was fundamentally pretty harmless. But
as it drifted through the United States from the frigid
East to the also frigid Northwest, something funny happened. British

(09:44):
Israelism turned racist as fuck. That's weird, weird, you know,
weird weird that would happen surprising, Yes, surprising indeed now
The man most responsible for this turn was an Oregonian
named Reuben eight Sawyer. In the late nineteen teens, he
started writing for a monthly magazine called The Watchman of Israel,

(10:07):
which was dedicated to the idea that quote, the English
speaking peoples of today are the lineal descendants of the
lost ten tribes of Israel and must fulfill in these
latter days the responsibilities decreed for them through the patriarchs
and the prophets. So Reuben was the pastor of the
East Side Christian Church in Portland, Oregon, and over the
years he built up a sizeable British israel group in

(10:29):
the city of Roses. In fact, he was so successful
at this that he left his job as a pastor
in nineteen twenty one to lecture and write about British
Israelism full time, well not quite full time. He did
have one other side gig as a member of the
Oregon Ku Klux Klass. There we go, and you know,

(10:52):
I love talking about the nineteen Clans, that one beautiful
wacky clan before I got back to being terrorists, back
when they were still hanging out at the cool Coast
hilarious losers dangerous. Yeah, not the mass murderers, um, although
they still killed a lot of people. We probably shouldn't

(11:14):
laugh at them as often as we do. But I
mean the Cool Coast Camp and the christ Can you
imagine the pitch meeting for the Cool Coast Camp. I
can now that you mentioned, I think someone mentioned, someone suggested,
and everyone else like, that's a great idea, idea we

(11:36):
shouldn't so. Reuben was big into the clan for several years,
and in fact he helped sell his fellow Portlanders on it,
addressing six thousand of them on December two the municipal auditorium.
He told them the KKK saw it quote a cleansed
and purified Americanism, where law abiding citizens will be respected
and their rights defended, irrespective of race, religion, or color.

(11:59):
So long us they make an honest effort to be
Americans and Americans only, So that's nice, regardless of race
or color. Yeah, and that at this point this wasn't
totally bullshit. The twenties clan was more of a pyramid
scheme than a terrorist organization. It was racist, but not
more racist than mainstream American society. When it came to
skin color. They were, however, more racist than mainstream Americans

(12:21):
about certain things. They hated the Catholic, the foreign born Asians,
and of course Jews. This presented an issue. Yeah, like
we were great on a curve in the twenties. Yeah,
so suggesting that like, when you create like a big group,
inevitably you'll have a bunch of a bunch of our

(12:43):
groups an increasing number of outs. Interesting now, Uh. The
effect that KKK hated the Jews presented an issue for
Reuben Sawyer because British Israelism loved the Jews, at least
it traditionally did, right, Like that was part of the
whole idea, was this kind of like veneer ration of
Judaism that like all these British people wanted to be
Jews as well. Um. So Reubens started out as like

(13:07):
kind of being you know, on the side of Jewish
people and like liking them, but over time and exposure
to other anti Semites and the KKK, Reuben radicalized. In
his first speech about the clan, he brought up the
Jewish question, but made a point of noting that some
Jews were of ancient and honorable faith, while only a
few were objectionable according to the book Religion and the

(13:27):
Right Quote. By ninety two, however, this inu window had
been replaced by full blown anti Semitism that was as
crude as it was open. Quote. Jews are either Bolshevists
undermining our government, or are shylocks and financeer commerce who
gained commanded control of Christians as borrowers or employees. It
is repugnant to a true American to be bossed by
a sheeny. And in some parts of America the Kikes

(13:48):
are so thick that a white man can hardly find
room to walk on the sidewalk. And where they are
so thick, it is Bolshevism. They're talking Bolshevism and revolution.
The transformation is so startling that one wonders at first
if it is the same person speaking. This is back
to a quote from the book. Yeah, out of my
head listening to that. Yeah, that is a lot of
racial slurs for Jewish people in like like a paragraph

(14:11):
that's like all of them. Yeah, I've run out of yikes.
Yeah yeah. Uh so yeah. He started out making a
distinction between like good Jews and bad Jews. Uh and
then eventually just decided that all Jews were terrible and
ethic Jews. Yeah yeah, So Rubin became a major force

(14:34):
for pushing his fellow American British Israelites towards anti Semitism.
In the early and midnighteteen twenties, the Dearborn Independent, the
newspaper funded by Henry Ford, began pushing even more extreme
anti Semitic ideas on the wider American public. It's editor,
William Cameron, was a British Israelite. Thanks to people like
Reuben and Cameron, the category of good Jews shrank every year,

(14:54):
and the dangers of the bad ones expanded to something
resembling the all encompassing anti Semitic conspiracy theory that set
Robert Bowers off on his rampage. From the late nineteen
twenties to the nineteen thirties, Howard Ran, a British Israelite
from New England, became a thought leader in the movement.
His goal was to build it into a political organization.
In nineteen thirty three, he formed the Anglo Saxon Federation

(15:15):
of America, which claimed that actual Jewish people were not
in fact descended from Judah. By the late nineteen thirties,
RAN's ideas had evolved to the point where he began
to claim that Jewish people were literally the children of
the devil. If you're curious about how this went down,
here's an explanation from the website of a modern Christian
identity group. Quote. Most that call themselves Jews today are,

(15:35):
in fact the race of Lucifer through his son Kane.
Kane was inherently evil from the beginning because he was
of Lucifer's seed. Eve was beguiled by Lucifer and did,
in the carnal sense, lay with him and begot Kane.
It was a pair on the ground, not an apple
on the tree. Eve was deceived by Lucifer and was
led to believe that she was laying down with Yahweh God.
That's the conspiracy theory that the devil tricked Eve and

(16:00):
to fucking him and thinking that he was God. But
it was really the devil. And that's where Caine comes from.
And Caine is the father of the Jews. Well, that
all makes sense. I love him history. Yeah, you can't
not put quotation marks around it in that context. God.

(16:20):
So Howard Rand was the very first person to use
the term Christian identity, and his thinking had a big
impact on a fella named William Dudley Pelley, who was,
of course the founder of the American fascist Silver Shirts movement,
who we also talked about on an episode of Behind
the Bastards, really bringing all the hits yea like tour.

(16:41):
I mean, it's all culmination. It's all called intersectional fascism.
Intersectional fascism, we're coining it here. But the nineteen forties,
the core of the Christian identity belief system was more
or less formed. It includes three specific ideas. Number one,
Arians are descendants of the biblical tribes of Israel. Number two,
actual Jews are the result of the devil having sex

(17:03):
with Eve in the garden of even Eden. And number three,
the apocalypse is nigh and when it comes, Arians will
have to go toe to toe with the worldwide Jewish
conspiracy in order to save the planet. When he walked
into the Tree of Life Synagogue that cold October morning,
Robert Bowers saw himself as a soldier taking place in
this great apocalyptic battle against the Jews. Now, Heart and

(17:25):
his fellow Christian identity believers had to be careful during
World War Two, since their belief system was essentially just
Nazism without the swastika, but that didn't stop him from
railing against FDR's appointment of the first Jewish Supreme Court,
Justice Felix Frankfurter. It also didn't stop him from opposing
the admission of Jewish refugees into the United States after
ninety eight. Heart specific beliefs were always fringe, but they

(17:46):
bled over into the mainstream American right wing due to
the right subsessive fear of socialism. I like to quote
next from a Great Tablet magazine article the Bloody History
of America's Christian Identity Movement. Quote. The broader concern of
Heart and his allies in the respectable wing of anti Semitism,
liberal journalist Kasey McWilliams called them the armchair andy Semites
of the right, was that liberal and socialist Jews were

(18:08):
ultimately behind the hated New Deal and the corresponding transformations
of in American society. These armchair anti Semites believe that
admitting Holocaust survivors into the United States after World War
Two would be the first step in dismantling the Immigration
Act of nineteen to preserve the racial character of America.
American Jews, many of whom supported easing immigration restrictions broadly,
were the boogeyman of the nativist right, and since right

(18:30):
wing nativists also often subscribe to Judeo Bolshevik conspiracy theories,
opposing immigration was a way to strike a blow against
communism as well as Judaism and preserve the white Christian
character of the United States. I just hate this song.
I hate the song. I hate that we have to
play it, yeah all the time. It's the same song.
It's not even catchy. It doesn't have a good hunt.
It's not it's a bad song. It's just play it

(18:53):
all the time, a big mushpot are you trying to say?
It's like, yeah, play encore, play it again. Let's let's
keep complaining about how immigration is going to destroy the
country like we have for two straight years, the inflation
of like all this like anti semitism, and then like
the communism and the socialism and the immigration, all these topics,

(19:15):
it's all the same. Or actually, don't pick any of
those lanes, don't pick any just get off, get off
the highway. It's yeah, pull over, go to a rest stop.
You need to sleep. Buring your car, burning your car,
and burn your car taking nap in the pathroom. So
from the beginning, Christian identity connected more with the dark

(19:37):
and violet chunks of the far right than mainstream conservatism.
This started with the silver Shirts in the KKK and
continued into nineteen sixty four when this peculiarly American fascist
cult met a little guy named George Lincoln Rockwell. And
that's what we're going to talk about after this ad
pivot pivot. Should I throw something? No, not yet, No no, no,

(20:00):
not not yet. Products we're back. I rejected the urge
to throw another thing, but I'm looking at I think
I'm gonna throw this big fistful of silver ware packets.
You showed your strength. Thank you in that moment. Thank you,
thank you. Character counts the best. Yeah, these these seem safe.

(20:28):
They're projectiles, but they're covered in plastics. At the amount
of mess they're going to make, because that's really going
to be a lot for Daniel lidial with. So if
he says they have a cleaning staff, now, I don't
want a cleaning staff to have to deal with it. No,
just stantal well, the plastic, the plastic forks and knives

(20:48):
will be all right. That's that's not like a mess.
I wouldn't describe that as can I put a clean
sign on the door. I'm gonna do that. Just a
little agent of chaos over here, aren't you? Yeah? Yeah,
he didn't. Yeah a little bit. Shucks. I want to
hear some more about some about some fucking George Lincoln

(21:10):
Rockwell and the identity movement. I don't, but I will. Yeah,
So in case some of the people listening haven't listened
to the Three Party. On George Lincoln Rockwell's life and
impact that we we talked about earlier, I'm going to
summarize his life here. Rockwell was the founder of the
American Nazi Party not much more than a decade after
World War Two ended. He was the first post war
Holocaust denier. He was the first fascist to make money

(21:32):
by lecturing in American colleges and provoking fights with anti fascists.
He invented the term white power, and was in general
basically the Johnny apple Seed of Nazism in America. Now.
Rockwall was an original thinker, a pioneer of the tactics
that fashy folks still used today to get media coverage
and play the victim. But he came into the game
early enough that he never quite figured out how to
hide his power level, which is a term modern fascist

(21:54):
used for hiding their beliefs as garden variety conservatism. Rockwell
was initially somewhat anti Christian, because you know, Jesus was Jewish,
which is something that didn't exactly play well with nineteen
sixties American conservatives. But in nineteen sixty four Rockwell met
with Wesley Swift, leader of the Christian Identity Church. Rockwell
instantly recognized what an opportunity Christian Identity represented for Nazis

(22:16):
in America. As it stood at that point in the
party's history, American Nazis and was basically just a cheap
rip off of German fascism that was good for triggering
Jewish War veterans and civil rights activists, but it didn't
click with regular Americans in a way that would allow
it to spread. American Fascism, Rockwell thought needed a spiritual core,
something esoteric, a little occult, and thoroughly American. Wherever it

(22:41):
arises in the world, fascism takes pieces of different spiritual
traditions and hammers them together around its central authoritarian framework.
This is part of what allows it to spread in
different cultures. Umberto Echo identified this trait as syncretism. Quote,
the Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist syncretistic occult elements.
Most fluential theoretical source of the theories of the New

(23:02):
Italian Right, Julius Avola, merged the Holy Grail with the
protocols of the Elders of Zion alchemy with the Holy
Roman and Germanic Empire. If you browse in the shelves
that in American bookstores are labeled as New Age, you
can find there even St. Augustine, who as far as
I know, was not a fascist, but combining St. Augustine
and Stonehenge, that is a symptom of her fascism. So

(23:23):
obviously Echo didn't write his essay until decades after Rockwell's death.
But G. L. R. Was such a natural fascist and
such an instinctive fearer type that he instantly seemed to
know that grafting Christian identity onto American Nazism was going
to be critical if it was going to spread. So
he appointed Ralph Forbes, head of the California branch of
his Nazi Party, to be the party Christian Identity Minister.

(23:43):
For race and nation. My favorite Rockwell biography says this
about Forbes. His strident racial views, his flair for the dramatic,
and his loyalty to Rockwell made Forbes the perfect man
for the job. California was an ideal location. There were
numerous identity ministry successfully operating there. Forbes would be the
first Nazi officer to preside over a flock. By fusing
Christian identity and national socialism, Rockwell hoped to maximize the

(24:05):
synergies of the groups and broaden the potential membership for
each group. Nazis could find religious justification and legitimization in
the church. Identity members could find political expression for their
theology in the A and P. A riot could now
be expressed as religion under the guise of the identity Church.
The push was on within the party to legitimize the cause,
to de emphasize Nazism and push racial issues to the forefront.

(24:26):
Racial issues could be easily exploited because they preyed upon
nativist fears of the white population. Cool, yeah, good idea.
So this is just more palatable, Yeah, yeah, it it.
It makes it more palatable, more American, and kind of
expands the breadth that it can reach because now there's
a theology behind it after all that messiness in Germany. Yeah,

(24:48):
thankfully for all of us. Rockwell was assassinated by one
of his own men on August nine, sixty seven. We'll
talk about what happened to the American Nazi Party after
his death, and more detail in the next chapter. Right now,
what's important is that Rockwell's iriage of American Nazis and
with Christian identity took it spread throughout the fascist right.
Richard Butler, the reverend who founded the Aryan Nations compound
in Idaho, was a Christian identity preacher. Throughout the nineteen

(25:11):
eighties and nineteen ninties, the Aryan Nations acted as one
of the lynch pins of American fascism, a place where
every kind of violent right wing extremist would gather and
meet and make connections with each other. From the Aryan Nations,
Christian identity beliefs were able to make inroads not just
among klansmen and neo Nazis, but into the American militia movement.
Tanya Telfair Sharp, a researcher with the Journal of Black Studies,

(25:33):
was one of the first academics to document the spread
of Christian identity outside of explicit fascists and into the
murkier world of American quote patriots. She documented evidence of
Christian identity pamphlets and underground literature spreading in small local
gun and knife shows throughout the country from nineteen to nine.
It had, of course, been prominent in that world before nine.

(25:54):
Christian identities focus on the inevitable apocalyptic battle between Arians
and Satanic Jews met to well with the apocalyptic fetishism
of the survivalist and militia communities. See it's like that.
That's part of why it's so naturally American. Yeah. Gives
them a reason. Yeah, it gives them arine like quote
logic for there they're like feelings or desires and have
these like especially once the Cold War is over and

(26:18):
you don't have that sort of like secular reason to
expect the apocalypse like now there's yeah. Yeah. As Tanya
Sharp wrote, both groups were tied together by their belief
that quote re establishment of white sovereignty depends on the
use of organized aggression against the enemies of true Christians,
all non whites and all non Protestants. The first two
letters of racial Holy War make up the battle cry.

(26:40):
Rahawa often used an identity speeches and publications. Christian identity
literature regularly focused on preparing for this apocalyptic battle, which
allowed them to subtly recruit preppers by focusing on not
explicitly ideological tasks like acquiring dried food and weaponry, or
building anti personnel traps in order to protect woodland compounds.
White Ka was the gold mine for Christian identity. Fear

(27:02):
of the year two thousand brought thousands of New Americans
into the world of survivalist magazines, conventions, and online message boards.
The worlds of the militia movement in the survivalist communities are,
of course, closely tied into the world of conspiracy theorists.
In the late nineteen nineties, guys like Alex Jones weren't
preaching overt anti Semitic conspiracy theories. You'd never catch him
claiming Jews were the spawn of Satan, for example, but

(27:24):
Joan and his ILK were major proponents of the New
World Order, the king of conspiracy theories. Throughout the nineties
and early two thousands, the n w O took different
forms in the mouths of different conspiracy theorists. The most
mainstream and least racist version of the theory was that
a secret world government of shadowy globalists was slowly taking
over the federal government and the governments of the world,
with the aim of enforcing total or welly in control

(27:46):
over the populace and killing the majority of the world's population,
particularly the Christians. The New World Order conspiracy was again
not inherently anti Semitic or racist, but in practiced most
expressions of the theory wind up focusing on beliefs that
a Jewish led all of blacks, homosexuals, Hispanic immigrants, and
liberals was trying to wipe out all straight white Christian Americans.
Christian identity believers introduced the term Zionist occupied government or

(28:10):
ZOG into the lexicon of American fringe politics. It took
off like wildfire, leading countless Americans on the far right,
or entering the vocabularies of countless Americans on the far
right who would never have considered calling themselves a Nazi
just Zog's Yeah, they would never, Yeah, they never do.
At first, they never Taylor's old time guys, same thing

(28:31):
over again. That connection quite that, that's where it's heading. Towards.
That is where it all heads towards. That's where Alex
Jones all heads towards. And he has had so many
Christian identity preachers on his show. They never talk about
Christian identity, but you look into a ton of these
guys and it's like, Oh, he's a pastor of a
Christian identity underlying. Yeah. Right, you present them on the platform,
and then people watching eventually get into them, and then

(28:53):
they don't realize what they actually preach, and then they
get they absorb what they preach, and then yeah, brilliant
Christianity beliefs happened to mesh perfectly with every other extremist
belief in the United States. In the late nineteen eighties
and early nineties, tax protesting became more common. Christian nitinity
fit in with that too, arguing that paying taxes was

(29:14):
really just paying for the demonic Jews to carry out
their white genocide aims even faster. In nine William Luther Pierce,
a former devotee of Rockwell and head of a Nazi
group called the National Alliance, wrote this in a newsletter.
The truth of the matter is that the New World
Order people ultimately aimed to create a new world population
of surfs for their global plantation, a homogeneous population of

(29:35):
coffee colored surfs, a population of docile, predictable, and interchangeable surfs.
And they definitely don't want any large reservoir of white
people anywhere who might rebel. N Now, if you take
the word white out of that sentiment, it almost word
for word matches with any one of a thousand rants.
Alex Jones has gone on Throughout the years under Rockwell.

(29:57):
The American Nazi Party never numbered more than a few
dozen real committed members, and its ideas never gained any
kind of mainstream penetration. But the late nineteen nineties American
fascists were no less hateful or violent than they'd ever been,
but their rhetoric had evolved to fit with the deep
conspiratorial undercurrents sweeping through American society. Rockwell had shotguned out
hardcore racism, and as a result, he'd only been able

(30:19):
to recruit a small number of the craziest people in America,
or I shouldn't say craziest of the worst people in America.
Uh new American fascism, blended with Christian identity, was capable
of hiding out in more moderate spaces and luring in
new believers without waiving a swastika in their faces. Perhaps
the most potent weapon Christian identity added to the arsenal
of American fascism was the idea of white genocide. If

(30:42):
you spent much time studying neo Nazis, you're aware of
the significance of the number fourteen that stands for the
fourteen words we must secure the existence of our people
in the future, for white children. This is the invention
of David Lane, a neo Nazi bank robber and for
decades a Christian identity believer. Uh wall Lane was has
moved on from Christian identity to a weird sort of

(31:02):
bastardized Norse mythology rip off. Turning this fucking Viking there now?
Uh He and other Christian identity believers in the eighties
and nineties were largely responsible for seating the fear of
white genocide into American fascism. From Tanya Sharp's article quote,
the identity literature is filled with negative images of white
women caring for mixed race babies. Race mixing in and

(31:24):
of itself is a cause for an organized and radical
plan to separate the races. The National Vanguard magazine, a
leading pron neo Nazi publication, suggests that the cult of misgenation,
which according to them, has proliferated over the past thirty years,
has placed the white race on the precipice of biological extinction. Furthermore,
they argued that only radical action will end the morality
of death. Now, the urge to protect white babies and

(31:48):
ensure the future of the white race inspired a little
guy named Eric Rudolph to bomb an Alabama abortion clinic
in nine. Rudolph was a Christian identity believer, and his
beliefs led him to bomb atlanta As Olympic Park the
same year, along with a gay nightclub. Rudolph spent more
than a year hiding in the woods eluding federal agents.
He killed two and injured more than a hundred and
twenty people over his almost two year long bombing spury,

(32:11):
and as we talked about in the introduction to this,
he also inspired that British bomber who's built a series
of nail bombs that killed three people and injured dozens more,
which also inspired the guy who killed Joe Cox. Almost
like it's a chain reaction, yeah, exactly, Now, Eric Rudolph,
as I just stated, was not the last person moved
to violence by this picture of declining white race. Everyone

(32:31):
listening to this will remember, of course, the two thousand
nineteen christ Church massacre in which a fascist extremist murdered
fifty one Muslim worshippers at a New Zealand mosque. That
shooter did not identify as a Nazi, and a manifesto
lacked the expected anti Semitic rambling, but he ranted at
length about the threat of white genocide and what he
called the great replacement. In between those two terrorists are
dozens and dozens of other attacks with bits of Christian

(32:54):
identity DNA coded into them. John Ernest, the Paway Synagogue shooter,
did not identify himself as a follower of Christian identity theology,
but accordinated Tablet magazine quote. The manifesto left behind by
the Patway shooter reads like a hybrid of classical Christian
anti semitism and contemporary white nationalism. He alternated, within paragraph,
sometimes within sentences, from charging the Jews with responsibility for

(33:16):
the death of Jesus and the early Christian Saints to
declaring that Jews fund politicians and organizations who use mass
immigration to displace the European race. The document is riddled
with contradictions and as inarticulate even by white nationalist manifesto standards,
as it moves between citing the Gospels and the Killer's
love of Frederic Chopin with explosive hatred towards Jews. But
what it does evince clearly is a grounding and a

(33:38):
form of anti Semitism that's equally in debt to older
Christian traditions and more modern secular variants centered on race
and soil. Christian identities influence in the fascist rite is
so deep and so well woven that attacks are now
carried out by terrorists who have been inspired by its
tenants without ever learning the words Christian identity. You'll be
hearing about it regularly throughout the rest of this audio book,

(33:58):
and I'll be sure to point out wherever groups or
individuals we discussed or Christian identity believers. But it almost
isn't necessary. Christian identity is now just part of the
furniture of American fascism. No matter whether or not it's
reference directly, it shows up everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's
always the same, same, kind of shades the same means
this is fascinating and horrifying. Of course, yeah, this is

(34:19):
just like the groundwork. We need a delay to really
get into the story because it's all this stuff that
it's there, like you said, even they don't necessarily know
where it came from. Or Robert Bowers is kind of rare,
and that he actually did read in the Christian any philosophy.
I don't think Ernest ever did. But it's there. That's
how it's so insidious, Like people believe it, Like you said,

(34:41):
they start listening to this person talk and like they
don't on the surface understand that it has all of
these different layers to it. But then as you get
drawn in, then you're starting on subconsciously. It's like you
you don't notice that, like Trump's references to sorrows funding
the American Caramans and stuff, how that ties into like
Christian identity, this idea that goes back to like the

(35:02):
fucking thirties that the Jews are trying to like like
replace with fund multiculturalism in order to replace all the
all the nonsense. And if you don't you don't need
to have read all of this too to like know
that or believe in it. You just you're just like
a piece in the the long thread that they got. There,

(35:25):
my metaphor fell apart. Sorry, you just lost confidence. You
should because we all turned and looked to you, and
then I got Yeah, the pressure from being looked at
by my familiars. Quick, throw some mayonnaise. I think I'm
gonna throw this packet of silverware. So people, do you

(35:46):
think I should throw it away from my dog? Uh? Yeah,
it's ready. Actually, you just went straightforward. I was hoping
it would all. It's among the oranges. Now it's the oranges. Well,
we can use those eat the oranges. Quite a mess,
quite a mess for Daniel. There's some tongs in there. Yeah,
there's some tongs on there. I think I threw a tong. Yeah,

(36:08):
we can use those to pick up the oranges. The
oranges stay, okay, Daniel can use the dog stays. You
guys want to plug some stuff More than anything in
the world. I love plugging. Check out our podcast called
even More News. Check out our Patreon dot com slash
some more news. We are also we have shirts and

(36:29):
and merch on t public. I believe probably dot com
slash users slash some More News sounds right, I don't know.
Look it up. Um, I'm on Twitter, Dr Mr Cody. Uh,
we're also on Twitter Some more News? Are you going
to say? Handed to Huh? And our YouTube shows called
some more News And Katie Stole is the Twitter name

(36:51):
for how you just spoke for me, all of it.
I got all of it out there last time you
were like, I don't want to do this, So here
we are. I have nothing to plug. The episodes over
is very proud of me. She's clapping. You can't hear it,
but she's clapping for you on the inside. Oh no, wait,
she's not clapping, she's slapping her head. I mistake these two.

(37:14):
Regularly you can buy T shirts. Yeah, in general, just
like go to a store and buy some T shirts,
some T shirts. I'm a fan of the concept. Sophie,
what do you want? She wants you to plug your
te public store for Behind the Bastards. There's a t
public store for Behind the Bastard there is. That's one

(37:36):
of my favorite podcasts. So you guys should check that out. Robert,
you should can't pick up some merch um. This audio
book that he's releasing is something to plug. You're listening
to it now. You're listening to it now, and you
can go to the war and everyone dot com uh,
and you can read or you can't read it, but
you can listen to it without the jokes and digressions,

(38:00):
if that's what you want. If that's what you want, Katie,
I can't believe you gave me Gough for plugging your stuff,
but then you plugged his stuff for plugging your stuff.
She's a real stuff cover what stuff goffing over? Yet?
I don't know. Episode