Part Two: How Nice, Normal People Made The Holocaust Possible

Robert is joined again by Sofiya Alexandra to continue discussing the, 'Little Nazis.'

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Okay, welcome back to the podcast that this is, which
is not the podcast that this isn't um, which is
to say that this is behind the bastards family. Was that?
Come on? Come on? I was being very specific, Sophie,
Love of God, you're talking about the worst people in
all of history. Okay, that's what we do. That's our
that's our milieu is the worst people bad, yes, and

(00:25):
one of the and one. Sometimes those are bad people.
There's dead babies. We always have this wonderful lady on
Sophia Alexandria is here today to talk with us about
some dead babies. Well, Robert, what did I say? I said,
stop only inviting me to dead baby things? Can you
break it up with some adult murder every once in

(00:47):
a while? I mean, yeah, there was some adult murder
in the last one. Come on, remember that doesn't count
of Part two. Is baby murder that neiggates Part one?
I don't know that it is. I think it just
makes for more murdered people. I think that we do
one baby murder episode, we do one other people murder episode,

(01:09):
and that is a healthy balance for our relationship, you
know what. I respect that and I accept it. Okay,
all right, well, good, See this is why communication is
so critical. I'm hugging you through the zoom. Thank you
so much, Sophie. I'm hugging you to talk. Yeah, oh yes,

(01:31):
right for having me. You're welcome your will. So this
is part two of our episode you know about Nazis
and stuff? Right, actually introduced me, you fool? Okay, I did.
I could said you're Sophia Alexandria, who we talked about. Well,
you're also a comedian a podcast. First of all, pronounced
her last name, right, Sophia Alexandria. Nope, what Alexandra? Sorry?

(02:00):
What fucking I was thinking about princesses. Um. I have
literally hundreds of hours with you. I know I was
thinking of princesses. I too think of royalty when I
think of Sophia, but I know how to pronounce her
last name. Yes, you're so good at making him look
like shit. This is an episode about Nazis, and I'm

(02:25):
looking worse than the Nazis right now, not worse than
not after this episode. I'm not Jesus what with all
the baby killing? All right, let's let's all right. So,
you know, when one of the nice things Sophia about
studying the old Nazis as opposed to studying today's fascists

(02:50):
is that we we we do know how things ended
with the old ones, right, Like you know, they don't
win in the end, um, And we're all we don't
know at about our fascists, right, We're all still living
through this. And there's a there's a there's a pretty
good chance they'll wind up, they'll wind up taking home
the trophy, you know. Um, Yeah, I do believe in us,

(03:12):
but it's certainly the game is not the game is
not ended. Um. The game is certainly still afoot. Yeah,
And I think we all have to get used to
the idea. Like one of the frustrating things I think
there's this, like, especially if you have friends and family
members who kind of went went Trump and have been
getting increasingly at least far right, if not explicitly fashy

(03:34):
over the last few years, is that like you want
some sort of emotional closure where they're like, I fucked up,
I was wrong, Like I I made a bad call.
It's never gonna happen. It's never going to happen. Um.
And one of the things that I think is most
interesting about Meyer's book, they thought they were free. Is
that he talks to like former Nazis about that. These

(03:57):
guys are You would think if anyone can be like, ah, yeah,
that was the wrong horse to bag, it would be
guys living in Germany in like nineteen but like, no,
like they don't. Like even those people weren't like, oh
you know what, this was a bad call. My kids
are dead in my house, got burned down in a
bombing raid. Probably voted for the wrong guy. That's not

(04:18):
what I want. I'm sure there was some unfortunate mistakes,
but overall it's been a pretty good couple of years.
That's exactly what they said. It's it's amazing these guys,
these little Nazis. And again, these are not the guys
who got rich under Nazism, Like these are not the
Venti Nazis. They're just merely tall yeah yeah, yeah, tall,

(04:43):
which again in Starbucks and Nazi terminology means short. Um.
So yeah, it's it's it's fascinating. Rather than turning against Hitler,
these little Nazis, the guys that Meyer you befriended, they
looked back on the Nazi time and power as like
a golden age, and they blamed the Fewer's failures on
everyone but him. Only one of Meyer's ten friends was

(05:06):
actually willing to condemn large aspects of the Nazi system.
As for the others. Quote, the other nine decent, hard working,
ordinarily intelligent and honest men did not know before nineteen
thirty three that Nazism was evil. They did not know
between nineteen thirty three and forty five that it was evil,
and they do not know it now. None of them
ever knew or knows now Nazism as we knew it

(05:26):
and know it, and they lived under it, served it,
and indeed made it. These nine ordinary Germans knew it
absolutely otherwise, and they still know it otherwise. If our
view of national socialism is a little simple, so as
there's an autocracy, yes, of course, an autocracy as in
the fable days of the golden time our parents knew,
but a tyranny, as you Americans use the term nonsense.

(05:47):
When I asked Tara Wedtkin to the Baker why he
had believed in national socialism, he said, because it promised
to solve the unemployment problem. And it did, But I
never imagined what it would lead to. Nobody did. I
thought I had struck pay dirt and I said, what
do you mean, what it would lead to war? He said,
nobody ever imagined that it would lead to war. And
that's interesting. When they talk about what it led to,

(06:08):
they're not talking about the Holocaust. They're not talking about
the deportations, they're not talking about the murder of of
the Roma, they're not talking about the murder of you know,
Hitler's political enemies. They're talking about the thing that fucked
them up personally. That's what they didn't realize it would
lead to. But you know what, that baker has the
kind of vibes where he would not bake a cake
for a gay couple. Definitely not. And hearing reading that

(06:31):
quote reminds me of the perennially relevant tweet by Adrian Bought.
I never thought leopards would eat my face, sobs woman
who voted for the leopards eating people's faces party. But
like it also reminds me of a Simpsons line. Um, sure,

(06:53):
Nazis have made some mistakes in the past, but that's
why pencils have a raisers. Yeah, it's it's It's very funny.
I think though, if we actually want to understand what
happened Nazi Germany and understand our own times better. As
a result, we do have to understand that, like when
these little Nazis say they had no way of knowing

(07:15):
that that Hitler was going to lead Germany into a war,
they're not lying. It seems like like, obviously, how could
you not know? German? Hitler wanted war um but a
lot of his early appeal to the little Nazis was
the fact that he was a wounded war veteran and
that he'd been a private right, that he had been
a very low ranking war veteran. And one of the
things you would say is that like, of course I
don't want war. I know better than anybody how bad

(07:37):
war is. I've been in the middle of one. Why
would I want something like that? Like that was that
was one of the lines that he took. Now, it
was transparent nonsense, and it was obvious to people at
the time who really who were intelligent, who paid attention, Like,
for example, have you heard that Hitler was a Nobel
Prize nominee. That's like a thing people talk about, right,

(07:59):
that's pretty well known asn't are you? I'm sorry, I
don't know if it was rhetorical or no, No, he was, yeah, yeah,
that that that's the thing that gets brought up from
time to time that he was nominated for the Nobel Prize.
You were doing a thing where you're like, so we
all know this, right, And then I was waiting for you,
I thought, and then you were just waiting for me
to say something, and I was like, did you know that?

(08:20):
On the same page, I thought that was yeah. I
don't think that it's something that people talk about as
much as in being a vegetarian or whatever. I read
a lot of Hitler, so I'm I'm I'm probably off
on what's common knowledge. So you're a big Hitler head.
We all know that he was a hitstand. Yeah, he
was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, but the nomination

(08:42):
was a joke. It was a satire by a Swedish
anti fascist politician who was like being like, like, it's
absurd because this guy clearly wants to pull the world
into war. So obviously, like a lot of people who
anyone who paid attention and who was modestly intelligent, knew
what Hitler was going to do. I'm not saying that
like it was hidden in any real way, but it
was hidden to these little Nazis, not because like Hitler,

(09:06):
obscured it particularly well, but because the only media they
paid attention to was essentially a like either completely idiotic
or complete propaganda. They lived in a media bubble, right um,
And that we we see that today. As Meyer wrote, quote, remember,
none of these nine Germans had ever traveled abroad. None
of them had ever known or talked with a foreigner,

(09:27):
or read the foreign press. None ever wanted to listen
to the foreign radio when it was legal to do so. None,
except oddly enough, the policeman, listened to it when it
was illegal. They were as uninterested in the outside world
as their contemporaries in France or America. And you know,
Meyer gets it right. You can see reading this book.
He doesn't talk a lot about American fascism, but you

(09:49):
can see in the way he writes the book like
he knew we were vulnerable too, like because these people
are everywhere. Yeah. I don't know how you feeling, Sophia,
Just you know, positive waiting for the babies to get here,
to come on, and then to leave immediately, and to
leave a pair of shoes behind. Baby shoes Comma never worn. Yeah,

(10:13):
baby shoes. See myself out. Thank you for the hemmingway.
I've always said you're the hemming way of this podcast,
mainly because of the amount of time you spend shirtless
firing a shotgun. I mean, people gotta get a load
of these ditties. I always say, yeah, yeah, that's the

(10:36):
that's the jacket quote for hills like white elephants. People
got to get to look at these ditties. So that
is also the tagline for my titties. A lot of similarities.
You also spent a period of time in Havana. If
I'm not mistaken, my titties are there right now. So yeah.

(10:59):
Meyer points out that like for his Nazi friends who
lived in small towns and away from like a lot
of where a lot of the violence the Nazis did occurred,
like the negative things the Nazis did, the negative press
about them was drowned out by things like the Strength
through Joy program, which enabled working Germans to visit places
like Norway in Spain at very little cost. These little
Nazis and those like them were concerned with the economy,

(11:21):
and again that meant not starving in those days, and
a lot of that appeared to get better under Hitler.
Some of this was a losory, and a great deal
of it was driven by what's called arianization, which is
the process of stealing Jewish businesses and property and giving
them to Germans, to arian Germans. Um. But Myer's friends
felt is like a really clean name for that. Yeah,

(11:43):
it is. And there's a there's a very good movie
about it, all called that was made in the Soviet
Union and like the sixties called The Shop on Main Street.
That's about like one like Russian peasant in an occupied village, um,
who has given this old Jewish woman's uh. I think
it's like a it sells like button and sewing equipment shop, um,
and she and he become friend and it's it's it's

(12:05):
it's a very It's an interesting movie because like all
of the people acting in it were like peasants on
the Russian steps when the Germans invaded, and they lived
in villages that the Nazis took over and then like
turned like a lot of them turned in their their
own Jews. So like the actors aren't like just acting,
they're like remembering. It's a fascinating film. I really recommend it.

(12:25):
I'm going to see it. Yeah, it's a it's a
very very good movie in a very I mean very
dark movie because it's about Russia and World War Two.
I was gonna say, what do you mean. It's kind
of sounded like a lighthearted romp to me. Yeah, compared
to talk about actually in part one and you knew
a name of an actor, I was like, of course

(12:48):
you grant. Yeah. I was just impressed by your just
putting Yeah, is he what? Yeah, he's in and he
plays in the pame Minister of England or something. Right,
he's the sketchy politician. Yeah, he's the one that makes
an insane number of like body shaming fat jokes during it.
I don't remember up, but the only thing I remember

(13:11):
is that Liam Neeson is in it. Um woman that's
a supermodel, but not a supermodel, Like she's not supposed
to be a supermodel, but she is. In the joke
he just keeps talking about how, oh, like the only
person I'd marry is Claudia Schiffer or whatever the fuck,

(13:31):
And then this Claudia Schiffer shows up. You know what,
it doesn't matter. That's not a good retelling of the movie,
but it's partially true. But you know what, ties that
back into our our episode. How are you going to do? Impressed? Well,
you were, you were. You were just telling me that
Liam Neeson is in love actually because of when love
actually was made. We're talking about we're talking about what's

(13:54):
that Holocaust movie with the red dress? Liam Neeson? Bam
back to We're back to World War two. Perfect degrees
of Hitler. Yeah, well that's amazing, son of a bitch.
I know, I know, I know, you know, I'm only
three degrees away from him. I mean like like genetically

(14:16):
or no, no, no, just in terms of like direct handshakes. Okay, yeah,
hands with I shook hands with a guy who at
age eight, like the Nazis came to power, and he
was a member of the Hitler Youth and they did
a lot of meeting like meet and greet gathering stuff
with Nazi hy brass. And he shook Herman Garring's hand.
Uh and obviously Herman Gerring by obviously by Nazi transitive property,

(14:40):
you have shaken Hitler's hand. I basically shook Hitler's hand. Yeah,
it's it's what we're talking about. Yeah. The thing that's
crazier about it to me is that that dude's grandpa
had fought with a sword on horseback as a cavalryman,
and like that that it's that recently that people were
doing that. Like, yeah, this dude fought in the eighteen
seventy one with like a fucking sword on horseback, and

(15:01):
I like shook hands with his grandson. And as advanced
as we are, we're that close to like people stabbing
each other while riding horses. It's wild, right, is that
when you got into machetes. No, I've always been in machetes,
so um, yeah, yeah, Sorry, we got off on a
little bit of a tangent here um, but kind of

(15:24):
what we're talking about. Most of this is for you,
but a little bit of this is for me. Okay, okay,
it can't be just Hitler, Hitler, Hitler of the time.
Give me two of Hitler related, Hitler adjacent and yeah,
we're talking about a lot of Hitler adjacent little Nazis here.
And and these folks were able to kind of get

(15:46):
on board because they were, you know, distracted by a
lot of the benefits of Nazis and they didn't see
they didn't go looking for the ugly stuff, even though
they knew some of it was there um because the
stuff that was positive was like way more in their
face is and that's really all they cared about. And
that's why even the the Nazis never had an electoral majority,
almost every German got on board with Nazism, even if

(16:10):
they didn't join the party during the years in which
Hitler was succeeding, right, because people back a winner um,
And that's what gets it. That's what scares me most
about imagining the United States sliding into fascism. And it's
not it's not the midnight raids, the abduction and execution
of dissidents, the slow clamped down and in resistance. It's
the idea that most Americans that like people I know
and am friendly with, would find ways to pretend none

(16:33):
of it was happening, while like people I love and
maybe me are disappearing and being murdered. That's the scariest
thing about it, right like that is so much more
frightening than imagining, than thinking about the actual fascists doing
the killing. It's like the people that I've I've hung
out and played video games with, like turning and turning
away while it happened. Anyway, I'm gonna read another quote

(16:56):
from Meyer's book that's exactly on this topic. None of
the horror impinged upon the day to day lives of
my ten friends or was ever called to their attention.
There was some sort of trouble on the streets as
one or another of my friends was passing by on
a couple of occasions, but the police dispersed the crowd,
and there was nothing in the local paper. You and
I leave some sort of trouble on the streets to

(17:16):
the police, so did my friends. And it's the police
who are disappearing the Jews in this period, right, that's
what's happening, along with all the political dissidents. Um and
Meyer actually presented his friends with an article from their
local newspaper from back in nineteen thirty eight about a
group of local Jews who were taken into protective custody
by the police, and Maya writes, none of them, including

(17:39):
the teacher, the anti Nazi teacher, remembered ever having seen
it or anything like it. And maybe they're lying. Maybe
that's just our brains are that good, And when we're
really hate reality, closing it out, if we're able to
escape it, if we're safe enough to escape reality. I

(17:59):
don't know. I mean, people's memories of events are so unreliable,
incredibly so in general, um much less when you like
really want to forget that you were a Nazi, yeah yeah,
or or just don't want to remember that you what
being a Nazi exact exactly, exactly exactly now, The cold,

(18:22):
hard reality is that most of the Germans who lived
in the Third Reich knew what was being done to
the Jews. Not every detail, for sure, but like they
knew enough. Right, the gas chambers, the death camps were
tremendously widely known, but the fact that the Jews were
being disappeared and that something terrible was happening, you were
everyone was aware. This has not been kind of historical

(18:43):
consensus for long. In two thousand one, Robert Professor Robert Gladley,
who we we quoted from earlier, conducted a massive survey
of German mainstream media newspapers and magazines from nineteen thirty
three on. And he started down this path of research
when he was looking through old German papers and he
found report of a woman who had been sent to
the Gestapo for looking Jewish and having sex with a neighbor.

(19:05):
Now at the time and this is like the late
nineteen nineties. When he came across this article, conventional academic
wisdom held that the majority of Nazi atrocities had happened
without the knowledge of most Germans, gladially noted for decades
my generation had been told that so much of the
terror had been carried out in complete secrecy. So coming
up upon that report openly in a major German newspaper

(19:26):
made him wonder if this was true, and so he
decided to look into the matter, and then the way
that academics do, very very in a very like methodical way,
and I'm gonna quote now from a Guardian rite up
on the study he conducted. As a result of this,
his media troll with a research assistant, found that as
early as nineteen thirty three, local papers reported the killing
of twelve prisoners by guards at Dakau, the first to

(19:49):
be set up as a model concentration camp initially for communists.
On May, the dekaur Zeitung, which is the Dacow newspaper,
said that the camp was Germany's most famous place and
wrought new hope to the decou business world, which obviously
there's a town also next to the camp By nineteen
thirty four, the main and widely read Nazi owned paper
Vocashabao Bacter was reporting on a widening of policy to

(20:12):
other political criminals, including Jews accused of race defilement. By
nineteen thirty six, communist prisoners were no longer mentioned in
a photo essay, and the s S paper Dash Schwartz Corp.
The Dark Core emphasized the camps has places for people
for race to filers, rapists, sexual degenerates, and habitual criminals.

(20:34):
That's interesting to me that that's how they're That's how
the Nazis spun the concentration camps first not as a
place for Jews in specific, but as a place for
race to filer's, rapists, sexual de degenerates, and habitual criminals
um and that process continued through the years of the
regime short life. In nineteen thirty seven, Heinrich Heimbler made
public announcements that still more camps would be needed for

(20:55):
those with hydrocephalis, cross eyed, deformed, half Jews, and a
whole series of racially inferior year types. In nineteen thirty eight,
after Christal knoch Gebel's made a widely purported public announcement
that the final answer to the Jewish problem would occur
via government decree. So far from being unaware of the Holocaust,
the little Germans were well informed about a lot what

(21:16):
was going on. They knew their government was looking to
a final answer to the Jewish question, and they knew
what that meant more or less. So, Yeah, not only
were the Nazi atrocities well known as they occurred, but
the desire of little Nazis to pretend ignorance at the
crimes that were enabling was also really obvious to outside
and inside observers at the time. There's a quote that

(21:38):
I think is really useful from Peter Viereck, who was
a German American scholar, and he wrote this in nineteen forty,
well publicized among Germans already before Hitler came to power,
and during a period when he still depended on their
consent rather than coercion, were the many actual deeds of butchery.
Someday the same Germans, now cheering Hitler strut into Paris,

(21:59):
will say to their American friends, into their brave German
anti Nazi friends, we did not know what went on.
We did not know. And when that day of no
nothing comes, there will be laughter in Hell. And there's
a lot to say about the forgetting that happened after
the war, and some of it was because we wanted
the Germans as allies against the Communists. The US government

(22:21):
was very much willing to to let people forget, and
it was not a unified thing. Like one of the
things Eisenhower did that I think was really laudable was
forced Germans who lived near the concentration camps to tour
them where they were like still corpses lying out and
stuff like that. But but for the most part, this
was allowed to be the mainstream belief. For you go

(22:41):
find old documentaries about the Holocaust and stuff like. This
was a very widespread belief that most Germans hadn't known
because it was politically dangerous in the period when those
same Germans were still running Germany to admit that they'd
known and that they'd at least let it happen. Um.
And that's I mean, it's a real bummer. Um. Yeah.

(23:14):
It also makes me think of like the fact that, um,
there's so many reminders of what happened in Germany and
like all these monuments and stuff, and um, how that's
really important. Also for reckoning with UM, something that is
like a big historical event that most people would like

(23:36):
to forget. Yeah, their country was a part of. Yeah,
they actually put a lot of If you go to
any of like the any of the concentration camps that
are actually in Germany, like in order to be a
guide at one of those places, like there's a certain
level of education you have to have and and the
people there are extremely knowledgeable about the Holocaust UM. And

(23:57):
it's something that the German government does now put a
lot of importance in UM because you you have to
people I want to forget that. When people want to forget,
it's not that just they don't want to remember a
bad episode from history. They want to forget that they
might do that right. They probably wouldn't be Nazis, but

(24:18):
they would let the Nazis do what the Nazis did.
And nobody wants to remember that. Nobody wants to think
about that. But it also just makes you think about
how much wilder it is that people fight for Confederate
monuments here, because they're the opposite of of those kind
of monuments that you're trying to remember the people that

(24:42):
were for something horrible, not the people that fought against them.
So it's it would be like if you want to
Nazi Germany and all of the monuments, instead of being
too like, um, the Germans being Nazis, we're like, let's
not this is so we don't forget that there were Nazis.

(25:03):
Here's uh Henrich Hitler's uh statue. Oh it's right next
to you know, Hitler and Hitler's garden. It's just like
that's I mean, and that's something that has been taken
for granted in America for so long that like, yeah,
Confederate monuments of course, and on that side, it's time

(25:29):
for an ad biats that we can all take some
deep breaths off. Mike whoa. I like it when we
can be more playful. Robert say, welcome back. I say, woo,

(25:51):
everything's fine in the world. So uh yeah. So I
think it's interesting. I think it's important to note, because
there's very little nuance in our education of the concentration
camps that they started as a place to put criminals, right,
sexual deviance, you know, child molesters, right the the that

(26:13):
that's what the Nazi that's not what who they were
putting there, but that's how the Nazis justified it, um.
And you can look at things like Q went on
suggests going after and whatnot and see some see some
lines there, but also like what a crazy coincidence that, um,
like all the people um that are the murderers and

(26:35):
the rapists and whatever are Jewish and gay and roma
and communist and political. Such a wild coincidence. Yeah, but
it is like you you see shades of that in
our own fascists, this idea that like everybody who was opposed,
who is actively opposed to the regime is a criminal,
you know. And they're not just criminals because they're breaking

(26:56):
laws in their protests, but there they all have like
have to be like part of some pedophile cabal they're
doing like they're they're they're they're all, um, Like it's
it's this, it's in the reason they do that, right,
The reason they do that is because it stops normal
people from caring. Because normal people don't give a ship
if a criminal gets murdered by the cops, because that's
supposed to happen. You know, normal people care when someone

(27:21):
they see as a good person gets hurt. Um, they
don't care about criminals because there's a lot that's fucked
up in our society. But the Nazis were taking advantage
of that same thing too. You know, you you don't.
You don't say we're cracking down on political dissidents. It's
we're arresting criminals, and then everybody's fine with it. Yeah.

(27:43):
I'm gonna read a quote from a book called Backing
Hitler by Robert Gladalie, who were just talking about. Um.
It's a very good book, and it talks about sort
of how, um, how the images that the Nazi regime
put out to justify the people they were locking away.
The social reception of the images that were projected, no doubt,

(28:04):
varied enormously. At one end of the scale, these published
accounts that a terrorizing or deterrent effect on potential opponents
of Nazism and those who were officially stigmatized. Certainly, many
people in the country would have seen through the propaganda. However,
for good citizens who wanted to return to an idolized
version of German law and order, these images helped to
ease the appearance of even the terroristic sides of Hitler's regime.

(28:25):
They could read in the press that those who suffered
at the hands of the new system were other people,
Communists and various social outsiders, and the Jews. Good citizens
were invited to see the camps as educative institutions and
as a corrective and a warning to those described as
social rabble, that is, men and women who were habitual criminals,
the chronically unemployed, beggars, alcoholics, homosexuals, and repeat sex offenders.

(28:53):
Totally different. Now amount of science. It's like Robert says something,
and then then I so one thing about Robert and
eyes chemistry that's not really Robert and my chemistry. That's
not really popping off over long? What is this zoom call?

(29:17):
We're on zoom now? Yeah, yeah, thank you, because I
feel like you pause for me to say something when
I have nothing to say, and I'm just defeated by
the content. And then when I do have something to say,
You're like, I'm in the middle of my thoughts and
I'm like, you're right, You're right. My thing was stupid.
And that's what's happening podcasting. You know, maybe delete that.

(29:44):
They don't need to know how this sounds. It just
made no I like it. Stop saying that. Yeah, So Jesus,
what a what a time to be alive? So I
could go through in link excerpts from articles that kind
of make that point about like Trump topping talking about
violent criminals and like you know, camps at the border

(30:05):
and all the crystal fascist paranoia about trans people using bathrooms.
Which when they talk about the Nazis arresting sex criminals,
that's who they were arresting. It's not rapists, it was
people who had sex they thought was criminal. Um. Yeah.
Or we could talk about q and On's obsession with
mythical child sex traffickers. But like you, we've all been
through the same news cycles. I'm sure you see the parallels. Uh.

(30:28):
And a read through of Professor Gladalle's book, which I
do recommend reveal several of them. Quote Orrick Herbert recently
suggested that during the Nazi years there was a growing
lack of moral concern in German society for human rights
and the protection of minorities, which grew rapidly during the
years of the dictatorship, and which led to a profound
moral brutalization in Germany. That's familiar, right, growing lack of

(30:51):
concern for human rights and protection of minorities in the
society leading to brutalization Um. Yeah. Gladali himself uses the
term desensitization to refer to the impact that the Nazis
years long drumbeat of like news articles about the people
that were arresting and sending away and killing, the impact
that had on people, desensitization. Again, we're experiencing a version

(31:16):
of that ourselves, with all of the hundreds of thousands
of deaths from from from COVID nineteen, with the violence
in the streets, with like these, these, this constant drumbeat
of police murders, like and and just you know, not
even from like stories about death, but just like the
sheer amount of horrible things happening, it just numbs you
after a while that was going on then too. Um

(31:38):
another thing we don't talk about enough. So while we're
talking about desensitization and genocide, we should probably talk a
little bit about some of the little Nazis who wound
up as cogs in the machine of death that actually
made the Holocaust happen. This is the dead baby section, Sophia. Finally,

(31:59):
keep your Jesus, I had a fucking prologue in this
some bitch, So I want to quote now from an
article in Der Schpiegel titled Everyday Murder Nazi atrocities committed
by ordinary people quote. Perpetrators included both committed Nazis and
people who had nothing to do with the Nazis. The
murderers and their assistants included Catholics and Protestants, the old

(32:22):
and the young, people with double doctorates, and poorly educated
members of the working class. And the percentage of psychopaths
was not higher than the average in society as a whole.
One thing you have to accept if you really want
to understand the Holocaust is that most of the people
involved were what we would describe as mentally healthy. They
were not people who could have been diagnosed with any
sort of of of mental illness UM which again like that,

(32:45):
This is why I pushed back whenever people talk about
the Nazis being crazy or Hitler Is being crazy, Like, no,
these were rational people taking rational action that happened to
be the worst thing you can imagine. And that's so
much scarier UM now in the early nineteen nine So
didn't they put mentally ill people. That's the first people

(33:07):
that they executed a lot of That's the biggest than
most horrible irony to call people that were just like willingly, um,
being agents of fascism. Yeah, I'm comparing them and to
people that are actually mentally ill. It's very it it is,
it's sick, and it's wrong because it ignored, it completely

(33:28):
ignores what was actually going down. Um. And that's that's
very important. Like the very first um, you know, the
gas chambers. Before the gas chambers, they were actually using
like like trucks that they would hook up carbon monoxide
gas too and pump into the trucks and they'd fill
them with people. And the people they experimented on first,
the first people the Nazis killed with any kind of
poison gas were mentally handicapped folks. Yep, that's how it started. Um.

(33:55):
I think it was the T four ethan Asia program.
Might maybe getting things a little bit wrong there, but yeah.
So in the early nineteen nineties, a large group of
researchers and historians began the long plotting work of digging
through mountains of the Third Reich surviving records and their
goal was to put together for the first time. And again,
this is right around the time that they're starting to
understand that like actually most Germans were complicit to some degree. Um.

(34:16):
So that they're starting to understand this, and they're trying
to put together a comprehensive list of actual active perpetrators
in the Holocaust for the first time, not just the leadership,
but in everyone who pulled a trigger or the equivalent, um,
the people who loaded Jewish folks in the train cars,
the people who man gas chambers, everybody, and at present,
the number of active participants that they have listed. These

(34:38):
are all individual people include more than two hundred thousand
Germans and another two hundred thousand Ukrainians, Estonians, Lithuanians, and
members of other occupied countries, including Frenchmen. Now, one of
the little Germans who pulled a lot of triggers was
Walter Mattner. And Walter was a police secretary from Vienna
who had been just kind of a function arry in

(35:00):
the Viennese police and then joined the s S when
the war started and became an administrative officer. And we
have a lot of his letters to his wife back
at home, and from those we learned quite a bit
about the man. I'm gonna have a link to just
like a sheet that has all of his letters home
on it, because it's very compelling stuff. On September one,
right after his first entry into the conquered territories of

(35:22):
the Soviet Union after the invasion started, he wrote, if
I were not already a national Socialist, the first day
of my wartime deployment would have turned me into one
through and through now not that long after. On twenty
nine September, about a week later, he wrote a letter
in which he assured his wife that he and his
fellow men of the s S were not committing war
crimes against the Jews of Eastern Europe. He insisted, at

(35:45):
the most we arranged things, i e. Everything is taken
away from the Jews. Just a few days later, like
three or four days later, on October second, nineteen forty one,
he wrote this, This is again a letter to his wife.
I should have already turned in. It's already nine pm,
and I volunteered for a special operation. Tomorrow REVELI is

(36:07):
at four thirty am, and we're moving off at five
thirty am tomorrow. I'll also have the first opportunity to
use my pistol. I'm taking twenty eight rounds with me.
Probably won't be enough, but another comrade will lend me
his pistol or carbine. I don't even know if I'm
being permitted to tell you this, but that the Jews
are our misfortune. That's something you've known for a long time,

(36:28):
and it's something we saw again and again on our
journey to Warsaw and onto here. Just how many comrades
are already resting in the cool earth, and this is
how many young men are sleeping single and married the
prime of our German nation to protect our home from
the monsters we have gotten to know here. It is
simply dreadful to have to look at these Asiatic hords.
What we Europeans feel when seeing this, You can understand

(36:48):
bitterness that takes a hold of me and which everyone
here feels when thinking of our home and our great
fateful struggle which we have to wrestle through here. For
our people, what are one thousand, two hundred Jews who
are two men and yet another city and have to
be bumped off? As the saying goes, it is only
the just punishment for all the suffering they have inflicted
and continue to inflict on us Germans. Until I arrive home.

(37:10):
I shall tell you nice things, but enough for today,
Otherwise you'll believe that I'm bloodthirsty. Wow on October seven,
Walter and his comrades traveled to a village named Muglov
in Belarus. There they gathered up two thousand, two hundred
and seventy three Jewish people. They stripped them of everything

(37:30):
but the clothes on their backs, line them up beside
an open pit, and shot every single one of them
to death at close range. Walter Mattner, mild mannered police secretary,
wrote this home to his wife. For the first truckload,
my hand trembled slightly when shooting, but one gets used
to it. By the time the tenth truck arrived, I
was already aiming steadily and fired surely at the many women,

(37:51):
children in infants. Bear in mind that I also have
two babies at home to whom these hordes would do
the same, if not ten times worse. The death we
gave them was a nice, short death compared to the
hell is torture meeted out to hunt thousands upon thousands
in the dungeons of the gpu. Infants flew in a
white arc through the air, and we blew them away
while still in flight, before they then fell into the
pit and the water. Let's get rid of this brood

(38:13):
which has plunged the whole of Europe into war, and
is still mongering in America until it drags them into
the war as well. Hitler's words are coming true what
he once said before the war began. If jewelry believes
it will be able to incite a war in Europe again,
it won't be the Jews who will triumph, but will
herald the end of jewelry in Europe. Magliev has now
lost a number with three Zeros, but that's of no
consequence here. I'm already looking forward to it, and many

(38:35):
here are saying that when we return home, it's the
turn of our local Jews. This is probably a cool
time to mention that my grandma's family was shot to
death by the Nazis. So it bringing back some real
fond memories. Yeah. Yeah, these are the people who do that,
and it it um, it happened to a tremendous degree.

(38:59):
The eyes who did this, for the most part were
um groups called the INSETS group and which was like
it means special task unit and it was it was
a lot of SS like it was like the folks
that they recruited for this, a lot of them had
been local police officers, before um. And these were folks
who were willing who they This was kind of the
first attempt at carrying out a genocide and mass and

(39:20):
they did it with gunfire. And they realized very quickly
that this was not um. Yeah, it was not efficient um.
And we'll talk about that a little bit later. But
but reading about Mattner's crimes in particular brought to mind
a passage from Meyer's book that I find rather striking,
and I'm gonna I'm gonna read that passage. Now. The
German language, like every other, has some glorious epithets untranslatable

(39:45):
and will get wordney Spiceburger is one of them. It
means very roughly, little men gone wild. I think about
that a lot when I think about us, when I
think about some of the things I've being in the streets,
little men gone wild. That's some powerful ship. Yeah. So,

(40:07):
as it turned out, Mattner, obviously former police officer killing
people in Belarus for the Third Reich, and his fellow
police back home in Germany were hard at work on
that same task. Uh, and they thought they were free.
Meyer notes that his friend, the sensitive politician Hoffmeister quote
did his duty in nineteen thirty eight when he was
ordered to arrest Jews for being Jews. One of those

(40:29):
he arrested the Taylor Morrowitz and this guy survived the war,
calls him a decent man, which I have trouble getting
into that guy's head too. Um. But it's a it's
a shade of genocide that we don't see enough. I
think that is important to tell people about. Yeah, definitely.

(40:52):
One of the most bitter and fucked up realities of
the Holocaust is that a lot of the killing was
done by folks who would other wise be described as
decent men, people who were good husbands and good fathers
and friendly, positive members of their community, nice people, people
who would have smiled at you as you passed them
on the street when they were old men. Uh. And
people who also played an active role in the extermination

(41:13):
of millions, people like, for example, Major Trap of Reserve
Police Battalion one oh one. And I'm gonna quote from
the Guardian to tell you about Major Trap. According to
witness testimony, Major Trap was in tears when he ordered
the shooting a fifteen hundred women, children, and elderly Jews
near Warsaw, all the while saying an order is an order.

(41:34):
In July ninety two, his men drove the victims out
of their homes, loaded them into trucks, and took them
to a remote clearing to be executed. They shot them
in the head or in the back of the neck,
and in the evening, the soldiers uniforms were covered with
bone fragments, brain matter, and bloodstains. And that's like, that's
I think almost a more useful picture of what it

(41:56):
means to commit genocide is this man weeping and going
through with it anyway because it's an order. That's just
so fucking frightening to me. Um. I think anytime you
justify anything with it's an order, it's a frightening thing

(42:18):
because it's just completely uh takes away like the humanity
a decision all the way. Yeah, And it's why we
decided at Nuremberg that like, being under orders was not
an excuse to commit genocide, because it's not. But it
is precisely because of that guy. Um. Now, you may

(42:42):
have noticed that a lot of the folks were talking
about in this segment about people who actually committed genocide
by pulling triggers themselves. A lot of those people were cops,
strange weird. I wonder what the connection is there. Huh Yeah.
The Nazis stay was adept at using regular police to
round up Jews and other undesirables, and overwhelmingly German police

(43:05):
officers who were not members of the Nazi Party previously
agreed to do this work without complaint. Timothy Snyder, a
Holocaust scholar and one of the world's great experts on fascism,
one of your must reads if you want to understand
what happened, uh notes in his book Black Earth that
regular police were a key resource for the Nazis. Quote

(43:26):
after its triumph in the Night of Long Knives, the
s S implemented Hitler's fourth innovation, the hybridization of institutions.
Crime was redefined, racial and state organizations were merged, and
cadras were rotated back and forth. In nineteen thirty five,
in a significant reform, Himmler explicitly redefined the s S
and the police apparatus as a single organ of racial protection. Himler,

(43:49):
who served a racial movement rather than a traditional state,
personally directed both the s S and the German police.
From nineteen thirty six, the Investigative Service of the s
S proposed a new definition of political crime. It was
not crime against the state. The state had validity only
insofar as it represented the race. Since politics was nothing
but biology, political crime was a crime against the German race. Now,

(44:11):
later on in that same book, Snyder continues, the Einstetz
group and we're also hybrid organizations, mixing SS members and others.
The police forces themselves were hybridized from within, as police
officers were recruited to the SS, while s S officers
were assigned to the police. The secret State Police, the
detectives of the criminal police, and even the regular uniformed
order police were to become Himmler's racial warriors. And police

(44:37):
are tools of the state. They are they are. And
if we're talking about hybridization of the police with shall
we say, federal forces vehicles or I don't know, yeah,
or deputized cops who get federal arresting powers, or what's

(44:58):
been happening with ICE for the last four years years.
I'm gonna quote from a Pro Publica article here. In
the year after President Trump took off, as state and
local police officers across Pennsylvania swept car loads of Hispanic
immigrants into ICE's net. In the process, they helped the
agency's regional field off Talas office, Telly, more than more
at large ar rests of undocumented immigrants without criminal convictions

(45:18):
than any of the twenty three other field offices in
the country. These are immigrants picked up in communities, not
at local jails in prisons. Last year, five states New York, California, Illinois, Oregon,
and Washington limited how police can question immigrants about their
legal status or hold them for ICE without a warrant. Separately,
more than four counties restricted their engagement with ICE enforcement,
according to a national survey. On the other hand, fifty

(45:41):
nine local agencies and seventeen states have partnerships with ICE
to train and deputize their officers to enforce immigration laws. Hybridization,
baby and eat Yeah, and it makes you wonder how
many major traps exist on our police force is today.
Men who might be friendly and polite, um, but who

(46:03):
would stand there with tears in their eyes and shoot
dissidents if that's what they were supposed to do. Popular
history likes to focus on outrageous villains like you know, Hitler,
But I think these guys are are are are more
important to study the the the these otherwise decent normal
people who completely fail the thing that turns out to

(46:24):
be the greatest moral test of their lives. I say, agents,
anyone who's running any of the detention facilities, abusing children
in those facilities, any any of those things. But also,
in a way, all of us who live with it,
everyone who's able to live with it. You know, that

(46:46):
brings me back to the little list of the little Nazis,
these guys, these men and women who lived in quiet
small towns and villages and suburbs, you know, and most
of these people were people of conscience. They didn't vote
for Hitler when they had chance to vote for Hitler
um and you know, to the extent that they were
aware of what was going on, a lot of them

(47:06):
probably wondered, what can I do? How can I keep
this from happening? And part of why they let it happen,
part of why they sat back while their camps were
killing people, were sterilizing people, is because they were just
overwhelmed by daily life. Like if you read these people's interviews,
that's a thing you'll hear a lot, is that there
was just so much going on, right, There was so

(47:27):
much happening in the world, and so many different like
things occurring. I didn't know what to do, and I
was just exhausted all the time. It's a great excuse,
isn't it. Like, Yeah, there's a there's so. So. In
his book, Meyer talks to one of his German colleagues,
and this isn't one of the friends that he was studying,
because those guys were all members of the Nazi Party.
This man was not a Nazi, but he was a

(47:48):
German who lived in Germany when the Nazis were in power. Um.
He was a linguistics expert and an academic who was
obsessed with the study of Middle high German. So he
was he had his field of study that he loved
and was tried to kind of pour himself into while
the Nazis rose to power. He told Meyer, quote, what
happened here was the gradual habituation of the people little

(48:09):
by little to being governed by surprise, to receiving decisions
deliberated in secret, to believing that the situation was so
complicated that the government had to act on information which
the people could not understand, or so dangerous that even
if the people could understand it, it could not be
released because of national security. Yeah, and we've talked a

(48:31):
lot about Trump and this, but that's not Trump, that's Obama,
that's w. Bush, that's Bill Clinton, that's Bush Senior. That's
an increasing thing that's been happening in America under all
of the good presidents that have led us to this
point is the habituation of people to being governed by surprise.
You know. Yeah, uh, speaking of being governed by surprise,

(48:56):
I'm gonna tell you to take an ad break. Surprise
Bitch Goods and Services nailed it. Good to know that
our comedic timing is still a boy, Sophie me, and
you're better than ever rising to the occasion. All right,

(49:22):
we're back. So for most ordinary people, the extraordinary degree
of trust that they had in Hitler, and there was
a tremendous amount of that, especially as he starts to
win these victories. He starts to achieve things that had
seemed impossible, you know, the retaking the Pseudente Land, rebuilding
the German military concrete in France. Um. People had faith

(49:42):
in him, and so that was one reason a lot
of them were able to ignore the disappearances in the night. Um.
But that wasn't a factor for the people who weren't
Nazis the people who never converted. For them, the thing
that stopped them from doing more was not just personal fear.
It was the exhaustion and burnout they had from living
in a society like this. And I'm gonna quote again

(50:04):
from that linguist Zim talking to Meyer. You will understand
me when I say that my middle high German was
my life. It was all I cared about. I was
a scholar, a specialist. Then suddenly I was plunged into
all the new activity as the university was drawn into
the new situation, that new situation being fascism. Meetings, conferences,
interview ceremonies, and above all papers to be filled out, reports, bibliographies, lists, questionnaires,

(50:28):
and on top of that where the demands in the community,
the things one in which one had to one was
expected to participate that had not been there or had
not been important before. It was all rigamarole, of course,
but it consumed all one's energies. Coming on top of
the work one really wanted to do. You can see
how easy it was then not to think about fundamental things.
One had no time. Those Meyer said in response are

(50:52):
the words of my friend the Baker one had no
time to think. There was so much going on. Your
friend the Baker was right, said my colleague. The dictate
leadership and the whole process of its coming into being
was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to
think for people who did not want to think anyway.
I do not speak of your little men, your baker
and so on. I speak of my colleagues and myself

(51:14):
learned men. Mind you, most of us did not want
to think about the fundamental things, and never had. There
was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental
things to think about. We were decent people and kept
so busy with continuous changes in crises, and so fascinated, yes,
fascinated by the machinations of the national enemies without and
within that we had no time to think about these

(51:35):
dreadful things that were growing little by little all around us. Unconsciously,
I suppose we were grateful. Who wants to think, Wow, damn, yeah,
I didn't like that. But yeah, yeah, myself in this
photo and I don't like it. That's how if you

(51:58):
really study the Nazis, you should see yourself more and
more with everything you learn in them. And if you don't.
You're not studying them, right. That's what's scary about them.
That's what's scary about the Holocaust. They thought they were
free as a chilling book. But I don't think there's
any competition for the most frightening passage in the whole work.

(52:20):
It comes when Meyer sits down, sat down with one
of his colleagues, a chemical engineer. And again this is
another non Nazi, and he is more depressing than the
one you just read. Oh yeah, yes, this is the
bleakest thing I may ever have read. So he sits
down with this anti Nazi colleague of his, a chemical
engineer who lived through the Reich, and he asks him,
one day, tell me, now, how was the world lost?

(52:44):
And this is his colleague's response. The world was lost
one day in nineteen thirty five here in Germany. It
was I who lost it. And I will tell you how.
I was employed in a defense plant, a war plant,
of course, but they were always called defense plants. That
was the year of the National Defense Law, the law
of total Conscription. Under the law, I was required to

(53:05):
take the oath of fidelity. I said I would not.
I opposed it in conscience. I was given twenty four
hours to think it over. In those twenty four hours,
I lost the world, yes, I said, and this is
Meyer speaking, you see. His friend responded, refusal would have
meant the loss of my job, of course, not prison
or anything like that. Later on the penalty was worse.

(53:28):
But this was only nineteen thirty five. But losing my
job would have meant that I could not get another
wherever I went. I should be asked why I left
the job I had, and when I said why, I
should certainly have been refused employment. Nobody would hire a Bolshevik.
Of course I was not a Bolshevik, but you understand
what I mean, yes, Meyer said. I tried not to
think of myself or my family. We might have gotten

(53:50):
out of the country in any case, and I could
have got a job in an industry or education somewhere else.
What I tried to think of was the people to
whom I might be some help later on if things
got worse, and as I believe they would, I had
a wide friendship in scientific and academic circles, including many
Jews and Arians too, who might be in trouble. If
I took the oath and held my job, I might

(54:10):
be of help somehow as things went on, if I
refused to take the oath, I would certainly be useless
to my friends. Even if I remained in the country,
I myself would be in their situation. The next day,
after thinking it over, I said I would take the
oath with the mental reservation that by the words with
which the oath began, I swear by God, I understood
that no human being, in no government had the right

(54:32):
to override my conscience. My mental reservations did not interest
the official who administered the oath. He said, do you
take the oath? And I took it. That day the
world was lost, and it was I who will lost it.
Do I understand? Meyer said that you think you should
not have taken the oath? Yes, But Meyer said, you
did save many lives later on. You were of greater

(54:53):
use to your friends than you ever dreamed you might be.
His friend's apartment was until his arrested imprisonment in nineteen
forty three, a hide out for hugitives. This man hid
people from the Nazis. For the sake of argument, he said,
I will agree that I saved many lives later on, Yes,
which you would not have done if you had refused
to take the oath in nineteen thirty five. Yes, of course,
I must explain. First of all, there is the problem

(55:15):
of the lesser evil. Taking the oath was not so
evil as being unable to help my friends later on
would have been. But the evil of the oath was
certain and immediate, and the helping of my friends was
in the future and therefore uncertain. I had to commit
a positive evil there and then in the hope of
a possible good later on. The good outweighed the evil,

(55:36):
but the good was only a hope. The evil effect
there then is my point. If I had refused to
take the oath of fidelity, I would have saved all
three million he says, three million. He's talking about all
of the eleven million people we now know died in
the Holocaust. This was before they had a full count.
You are joking, Meyer said, No, you don't mean to
tell me that your refusal would have overthrown the regime

(55:58):
in nineteen thirty five. No, or that others would have
followed your example. No, I don't understand. You are an American,
he said again, smiling. I will explain there I was
in nineteen thirty five a perfect example of the kind
of person who, with all of his advantages in birth
and education and in position, rules or might easily rule
in any country. If I had refused to take the

(56:21):
oath in nineteen thirty five, it would have meant that
thousands and thousands like me all over Germany were refusing
to take it. Their refusal would have heartened millions. Thus
the regime would have been overthrown, or indeed would never
have come to power in the first place. The fact
that I was not prepared to resist in nineteen thirty
five meant that all the thousands, hundreds of thousands like

(56:42):
me in Germany were also unprepared, And each one of
these hundreds of thousands was like me, a man of
great influence or of great potential influence. Thus the world
was lost. You were serious, Meyer said completely. He said,
these hundred lives I've saved, or a thousand or ten,
as you will, what do they represent a little something

(57:02):
out of the whole terrible evil? When if my faith
had been strong enough in nineteen thirty five, I could
have prevented the whole evil. Your faith, Meyer asked, my faith.
I did not believe that I could remove mountains the
day I said, no, I had faith in the process
of thinking it over. In the next twenty four hours,
my faith failed me. So in the next ten years

(57:22):
I was able to remove only antills, not mountains. How
might your faith on that first day have been sustained?
Meyer asked, I don't know. I don't know, he said,
do you. I am an American, I said, my friend smiled.
Therefore you believe in education, yes, Meyer said, My education
did not help me, and I had a broader and
better education than most men have had or ever will have.

(57:44):
All it did, in the end was enabled me to
rationalize my failure of faith more easily than I might
have done if I had been ignorant. And so it was.
I think among educated men generally in that time in Germany,
their resistance was no greater than other men's. When do
you think the day was lost here? I don't know

(58:06):
that it has been, But I know that if I
just mean in terms of how far like that, we
couldn't have imagined so far that like we we didn't
know that Trump's presidency, uh I would have resulted in

(58:29):
all of the things that it did. Even though we
didn't know that it would be terrible. I So when
do you think was the moment that that mass miscalculation
happened for the people that were not like active Trump supporters,
but that went along and voted for him. I mean,
I guess you could say when they cast a ballot.

(58:50):
Now there's an element of which obviously the thing that
had happened in Germany that this person is talking about
has not happened to us yet. There's no regime making
us take loyalty. No, no, no, of course not. But
that's not what I'm saying. I'm it's a one to one.
I'm just saying that as pessimistic because I was Trump
got elected, I couldn't have even imagined that it's been

(59:13):
so much worse. So yeah, so it just makes me
wonder at what point people who voted for him, while
you know, quote unquote holding their nose or whatever, at
what moment it was lost for them when they decided that,
you know what, I'll just fucking vote for him. Yeah,

(59:34):
I mean, it's got to be. It can't be the
emails like what was the straw? I don't know. Um,
that's a question I go with all of the time,
and some of it is that as it was then, Um,
you know, the the thing that I think this fellow

(59:56):
is talking about that that we we have not hit yet,
is that the time at which decent people completely surrender
to the regime. Um. But it is a thing that
will happen if the regime gains enough power, because decent
people are always scared of dying. UM. And I think

(01:00:18):
the folks who have crossed the line already, we're neither
decent nor educated. You have to have had a failure
of education or decency to have voted for Trump. And
you know it's not it's not the people who vote
for him that scare me the most. It's it's again

(01:00:38):
the people who didn't vote for him. But if it
meant the difference between their lives or not, would let
the camps on the border where there's force ticks directed
me is occurring and babies being put in cages, would
let those turn into full death camps because the alternative
would be would be their own not even loss of life,

(01:01:00):
but loss of comfort and prestige. Like that's the that's
the thing. That's the thing. Like the lesson that this
guy is trying to get across to people is that
it is not the fascists decision to let the fascists win.

(01:01:20):
They don't make the final call. We do. They only
win if we consent to their victory, as millions of
decent people consented to the victory of the Nazis. Mic drop, Yeah,
you want to plug your plugable story. Fucking funk yourself. Sorry,

(01:01:44):
I was. I'm on the edge of teers, so I'm
trying to Oh, I know, I know, I feel that. Um.
I felt that energy this whole time I was on
the Virgin Teers earlier. You know, it's the kind of
life we're living, my man cool time, So you know, guys,
follow it out. I'm just really don't want to do this.

(01:02:07):
Get us up on the Graham. Um. If you want
to not kill yourself, I guess, uh, maybe listen to
my comedy album Father's Day available wherever you listen to things.
Can I just can I just say that when I
plut a shuffle on my like music library and it's

(01:02:29):
you and you come up like after like a really
somber song, it's so great. It's just you being just
your radiant itself and it just like makes my day
every lovely Thank you, Sophie. If you guys want to
find my podcasts that are not about dead babies, learning

(01:02:56):
some of great transitions from Robert You can watch me
talking about fiance with Miles Gray from The Daily day
Gist and Private Parts Unknown, my podcast with Courtney Kosak
about loving sex. Yeah yeah, let's fight fascism real quick, Yeah,

(01:03:18):
real quick. Just for a second, just treat a couple
of minutes. Yeah. Uh. Podcasts, Happy Trump, COVID day, no comment,
not a single comment was given. Good stuff, that's the podcast.

(01:03:45):
Sorry it was so depressing. Yeah, damn, thanks, I guess
all right, well sorry, Sophia M.