February 13, 2025 • 64 mins
Robert tells Brandie how Richard Doty crafted an elaborate alien ruse to destroy Paul Bennewitz's mind, all with the goal of hiding the U.S. government's drone and stealth bomber programs.
INTERVIEW: Defiant Rick Doty defends against 'liar' claims — punk rock and UFOs
Mirage Men: UFO researcher Mark Pilkington on deception and psychological warfare | WIRED
Ex-Air Force Intelligence Officer: UFOs are 50,000 years ahead of us
Here’s a thing about Richard Doty that not many know... : r/UFOs
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Oh man, welcome back to behind the Bastards. All of
you beautiful people and also all of you ugly people.
You know, all all people are beautiful, except for I
just kind of said that. I didn't that they're.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Not that inside and outside beauty.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You know, Well, there's only one kind. There's only one kind.
I'm not going to say what it is. I'm not
going to say which kind of beauty, but there's only
one kind. Yeah, it's elbows. I'm an elbow guy. I'm
an elbow guy. Yeah, I'm starting the wiki feet of elbows.
It's just a bunch of like really blurry cropped photos
of like elbows of different celebrities.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh my god, do you know there's no nerve endings
in your elbow skin?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
That's the hottest thing about it.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, it's an elbow guy and a friend in my
Comparative Religions class that discovered weed and will make everybody
bite his elbows the beginning of every class.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
And oh that that's a pervert. That's a par Oh
that's an elbow pervert right there.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Well, currently he's a born again meteorologist in North Carolina.
So yes, that is a pervert.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
No, I can see why you're be scared that God
is angry at you if you're that kind of pervert,
Because he is, but that that makes it hotter for
a lot of us. Brandy Posy, welcome back to the program.
You want to plug anything at the top before we
get too deep into elbows?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, of course, before we get elbow deep.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Bowen, bowen with Robert and Brandy getting a damn Mayby.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yeah. I run a comedy record label. It's called Burn
This Record. We seekul to create like equity between our
artists in a way that most comedy labels don't. I
have put out seventeen albums. Last year was our first year.
This year we have about fifteen.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
It's digital only. And everybody is.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Funny but a good person, which is a ven diagram
that I wish more people in comedy paid attention.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yes, well I think that's awesome. Uh So check that
out everybody, and uh let's let's get Are you ready
to get back into this story, into these aliens and spooks? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
speaking of bows, Richard Dody probably doesn't have nice elbows.
He's our Air Force Office of Special Investigations.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
When you said, I was like, are we talking for
your hair?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Are we talking? Are we talking speakers? Are we talking?
There's so many bows? Does he have no bows? No? No,
no partners, what are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
You know what? Speaking of bows? I will let pee.
This is just yesterday I wound up just because of
it happened as I was driving, like responding to a
three car crash, and there was a young woman in
the middle car who was the only one who was hurt.
And she was hurt because she had a beret in
like the back.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Of her for for claw yeah, which is a no go.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Anyway, don't wear those in the car a car.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Do your hairs, bringing.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Your claw clip in the car, but do not wear
it while you're while you're in the car, because it would.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
You bad bad.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
No.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I have a friend that is her sister's an ear nurse,
and when she gets in her car, her whole back
seat is full of those claws because when it gets
in her car and she throws it, she just takes
it out in the back seat because the number one
thing that she sees and hear her r room is
that in women's skulls from the car accidents.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So thankfully, this lady seemed fine, I do like.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
You're saying barett the way you said it so surgical.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I thought that's what it was called. I thought that's
what it was.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You're not wrong, but you're also wrong anyway.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Don't don't wear those. And also, if you're ever in
a car accident and your head is hurt in any way,
shape or form, go get checked out by a professional.
Don't just assume it's okay. You don't want to wind
up like that famous guy's wife. No. Yeah, one brain
saying that to be wasn't saying that to be flippant.
It's a real problem. Yes, go to the doctor. So
(04:10):
let's talk about fucking UFOs and a guy who didn't
go to the doctor. Maybe enough, or maybe went too much.
I don't know. Richard Doty was born sometime around the
immediate post war period. He is. I haven't actually run
into his exact and that said, I didn't like go
super hardcore digging into it. His father and his uncle,
(04:31):
Edward were his chief influences growing up, and both were
military men. This guy is kind of, you know, an
I think, a like mid boomer something like that. And
his uncle Edward had been a career officer and meteorologist.
In nineteen forty seven, he'd been made chief of an
Air Force weather research station working on something called the
(04:53):
Atmospheric Divergence Project. Now, decades later, because Richard dody is
not just the guy who's going to like spread a
bunch of lies to Paul Benowitz that helps drive him mad,
he also becomes like an alien influencer, claiming that like,
oh no, I actually did also see real aliens, guys,
and you can totally trust me. I know that. Like
my whole thing is, I lied to a guy about
(05:13):
aliens for years, but also you can trust me when
I tell you about aliens that I saw.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Ye, yeah, yeah, I lied because I also tell the truth.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yes, how exactly exactly now that I'm out, you can
trust me. So Richard Dodie, the spook and liar kind
of guy has in kind of modern interviews, tells viewers
that the atmospheric divergence project his uncle worked on was
an attempt to quote change or neutralize gravity around a
rocket to aid in space travel. Now, I haven't found
(05:42):
the exact details and the specific project his uncle worked on,
but I don't think this is true because while I
did not find the reports on that project. I did
spend way too much of my research time reading through
an Air Force handbook on meteorological techniques and atmospheric divergence
impacts the growth of systems in a bunch of ways
that are obviously relevant to an Air Force meteorologist and
(06:04):
not at all involved with fucking up gravity for space travel. Right,
this sounds like a normal meteorologist thing to do. Richard
is a tall tail spinner, right, yes, yeah, yeah yeah.
And one of the issues with my sources because the
two of them, I've got a bunch of articles in
here that you can you can find. But there's also
two books that I read for this. One is Saucerged,
Spooks and Kooks by Adam go Rightly and one is
(06:25):
Project Beta by Greg Bishop. Both of them are very entertaining.
I think Greg's book, Project Beta is the better book.
Both of these guys also believe in stuff I don't
particularly Bishop, while I think he because I've caught there's
some stuff in go Rightley's book that I caught that's
just not factually just slips out that he slipped up on.
(06:46):
I think Bishop is more familiar with the subculture. But
also Bishop definitely believes a bunch of shit. I don't.
And he's you can tell he kind of is excited
at like talking with these spooks and spies, and I
think he gives them a lot more credit than he
ought to.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Oh god, and he's caught up on the romance of
it all. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I think he is not in a way that I
think makes his basic conclusions wrong or his book not
worth reading. Again, I think it's actually quite worth reading.
It's quite a good book, and I think he's a
good writer. I just don't I'm not sympatico with him
on all of the conclusions he comes to about these guys.
I don't mean that as an insult to the man,
because again I liked his book a lot so, but
(07:27):
that is an issue when it comes to like trying
to figure out shit here right, and in Project Beta,
Bishop does do about like the best of any of
them at kind of questioning Dody by saying, perhaps this
had something to do with weather control, or maybe it
was something more prosaic, and like it didn't. It wasn't
rather control their gravity. It was just studying how this
thing that affects meteorological forecasts work. Very normal thing for
(07:50):
a meteorologists to do anyway, Doty joined the Air Force
as a young man, just like his Paul and uncle
and per Bishop. He entered in nineteen sixty eight as
a combat security policeman. Dody would later claim he was
quote tested and tracked throughout his career to become a
base security guard and then a special agent for FOC,
(08:11):
the Air Force Office of Special Investigations. Now that's how
Dody tells the story, and I don't think he's I don't.
I think that's very silly because I'm not an expert
on this, but I've known a number of people who
were in different military intelligence roles, and I will tell
(08:32):
you one thing that is very consistent. Base security guard
is not a job that you are scouted for your
entire career, right, Like it's kind of a shit gig actually,
Like nobody likes base security and it's not really what
most kids join wanting to do with their lives, right.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Oh no, it's a cast step above base janitor. But
like also the same kind of Yeah, I'm not a
smirch either job necessarily, but also like you're not security.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I'll smirch it some. I'm smirching a little here.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Just a scooch of smirch.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
We'll take it, yeah, yeah, yeah, And Dotie really wants
people to believe that he was like he was scouted
by the Air Force because like, we need to go
we can trust to do security for our very secret,
very real alien projects, and like wow, we we noted
from the beginning of his time in the Air Force
that he had something special, right, And that's the way
he talks about his backgrounds.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Very observative report but with aliens.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Says yes, yes, and you know, a FOC is more
prestigious than base security. He eventually does, you know, he's
a special agent. He's a sergeant, but he's also a
special agent for this and that is like a more
prestigious role. But also his job with an a FOCY
isn't the most prestigious thing because other members of that
agency are literally this is like the time that he's
(09:53):
in is one of like the high points for like
spy shit anywhere in the WORL like history. Right, other
guys and a FOC are locked in life and death
spy battles with like fucking got some of the best
spies on planet Earth, right, you know you've got the
foreign you know, Russian and Chinese agents. Like there's there's
some really interesting shit going on here. Dodie's job during
(10:15):
this like great international game is to light of people
who believe they'd been molested by Martians. So he doesn't
have the sexiest job within this sort of field, right.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Not quite espionage James Bond.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
You know, there are some guys in a foc doing
some really like you talk about the ethics of it,
but like interesting spy shit. He's I mean, it is interesting,
but not in the same way I'd like to see
his Bond movie though I would like for sure.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, this, this low rent Bond is definitely a movie
that I'd be into.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
That's kind of the premise of the Slow Horses TV show, right,
which which does have one the commissioner Gordon's in it,
and he's great. Yeah, hey the show. I have mixed
opinions on it, but he's always always a charm. The originals, well,
not the original, the one from the Nolan movies. I
forget his name, Gary Oldman. So Doty today claims that
right after basic training, and again this is also bullshit,
(11:09):
he was taken to a room and shown footage of
UFOs and like I don't believe that if there are
aliens that the government has evidence of, obviously there's some
people that they led into that secret within military intelligence.
It's not going to be anyone who just finished basic
because you know who can finish basic training almost anyone.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Like yeah, hey, eighteen year old, about a frontal lobe
that is fully firmed.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
You want to see aliens right now?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Like unless when't fuck with you specifically, maybe, but like
not a like an official constructive capacity for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, hey, guy whose primary hobby is getting blackout drunk
every single night of the week, Let's let's show you
an alien video.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
In all those push ups you did, Guess what, here's
also aliens.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
You passed the test.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah. Now, this is generally described as a test, and
I think that's how like Bishop describes it in his book,
is that Doty is being tested to see who, or
at least Dotie claims he was being tested to see,
you know, if he could be trusted with more detailed
info about extraterrestrials. So I guess there's a possibility that
maybe something like this did happen and it wasn't real aliens,
but it was just like let's show a bunch of
(12:20):
guys alien footage and like, see who leaks it? Right
that they saw something? You know, see who we can trust? Stuff?
Like I don't think even then, I kind of doubt
it because they weren't really doing that to guys who
just finished Basic. But shit like that is happening within
different kind of intelligence agencies, and it's not just aliens
they lie about. The disinfo is given out to people
during this period of time in different intel roles just
(12:42):
to see if they can be trusted, right, Like, that's
a thing that happens. Dody also claims that he served
as a guard at Area fifty one, where he saw
a UFO. Now again, Area fifty one is a real base.
They are really try doing experimental shit with planes there.
This could be true, and in fact, the story he
tells might might be true, but not in a way
(13:02):
he wants you to think, because he claims while he's
there he sees them wheeling out this huge black disc
that's some sort of craft that they're trying to get
into the atmosphere that they like launch and it doesn't
look like anything he's ever seen, and his commanding officer
takes him aside, right, because he sees dodies fascinated in this.
And here's the conversation that is related in the book
(13:23):
Project Beta Airman, Dody, do you know what that craft was,
asked the officer. No, sir, that's what is generally known
as a UFO, and it's not one of ours. It's
on loan, yes, sir. Someday, if you play your cards right,
you will learn know a lot more. But for now,
you are to tell no one about this and you
are not to discuss it with anyone. Is that clear?
Dodi never talked about it again, And first off, obviously
(13:44):
he did. You you're telling us this story.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
So from reading it in a book that's definitely been
recounted several times.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
But also Pieri, Yeah, that could be basically true and
have nothing to do with aliens. He could have been
on guard duty seen a weird craft that maybe like
it was a fucking French or Canadian thing that like
we were doing tests on, right, So it's on loan,
and his boss is just kind of like, hey, you know,
maybe if you play your cards right, you'll you'll get
we'll trust you with more stuff, right, And I don't know,
(14:14):
I don't know if Dodie actually gets much more trust.
But this could be largely accurate, although I don't think
that's likely. Yeah yeah, that said, like there's evidence he
is working. He probably he definitely does see experimental craft
through his job for FOC later in his career, because
he's working at bases where they're doing that. That doesn't
mean that he's told what it all is because they
(14:35):
they silo that info. Even if it's your job to
stop people from finding out about these programs, you may
not be told much about them because it's a need
to know a thing, and you don't. Right, you need
to stop people from filming the weird craft. You don't
need to know how it works. You don't need to
know what it is, right.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Like no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
They don't want curious people working on like lower levels
of this stuff at all, Like they're not. No, they
want you to just come in and be like, my
job is to do this and then have blinders up
to everything.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I didn't see shit. This is why I've been saying
this for years. The government should have all of its
security done by street level drug dealers. You know, those
guys can keep their fucking mouth shut.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
You know, absolutely no snitches, exactly exactly Area fifty one,
all security provided by coke dealers.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Just don't give me any coke. Then they talk about everything. Yeah, yeah,
that came from sober. Otherwise it ends very badly.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Oh man, what a fun place. Just a bunch of
sober coke dealers.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, a bunch of sober coke dealers at Area fifty one.
This is going to end well. So there's evidence that
a lot of you know, Dody is a credulous guy.
He does come to at least he will claim to
believe in this. He might just be fucking with everybody.
I don't really know, but a lot of guys in
his kind of level, in different intel agencies are believers themselves,
(15:56):
right so at any rate, Doty claims that his chief
mentor in spy shit was a guy named Seelely Howard,
a former insurance salesman. According to Dotie, he gave him
this sage advice early in his spook career. There are
three sorts of people you will be dealing with. The
First are the ones who will believe anything you say.
The second are those who will, at least at first
refuse to believe you. The last is the group who
(16:18):
won't believe you at first but might be willing to
be convinced. And what I find interesting about that is
those last two groups are the same group of people. Yes,
people who don't believe you at first, but you can
make them believe you. I don't see the difference.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Uh yeah, no, one is just on a longer timeline.
And yeah, even baba, yeah yeah, yeah. Sure.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
So as soon as Paul Benowitz called the Air Force
with results of his surveillance, they knew they might have
a problem. The Air Force Office of Special Investigations very
quickly became concerned that Paul Benowitz had stumbled onto his
secret laser based tracking system located in Kirtland. At least
that's one of the things he might have stumbled on.
Greg Bishop, who wrote Project Beta, noted that these transmissions
(16:59):
sounded like Jibrish language that had been distorted and sped up,
or to a true believer like Paul, they sounded like
alien's speech. Edwards, chief of Kurtland based Security, had previously
described Doty to a friend at the NSA as his
drug man. And so that's less cool than it sounds.
As Greg Bishop writes, the duty simply involved checking for
(17:19):
allegations of illegal drug use on the base, but it
was only one of aged Dotey's minor assignments. The FOC
has jurisdiction over all criminal and security investigations at Air
Force facilities. Most FOC agents must carry a high security clearance.
Agents need to know what they are protecting so that
security threats can be recognized quickly. Benowitz carefully described to
Doty what he had seen and recorded, all while trying
(17:40):
to keep what he really thought was going on to
himself for the moment. And this is where I think
Bishop is too credulous because again think back to Roswell,
the first guy, Like they don't tell the people who
are looking and responding to that crashed balloon that Project
Mogul exists. It's very common for these guys not to
be in the loop about stuff, right, especially since he's
(18:03):
just a sergeant, you know, like he's not a super
high level guy here. That said, Dody is kind of
sent to talk to Bennowitz, and he's like, hey, you know,
why don't you come to the base and we can
talk about your research. And so Paul heads to the
base and he shows Dody what he's got, and Dody
is initially kind of you know, bored, and then he
perks up when Paul starts to show him his radio array.
(18:25):
He returns to the base to talk with some NSA
colleagues about being bringing an expert out to Paul's home
to see what he built. So he visits Paul at
his house, and this time with an actual like like
scientist in tow and another engineer, a guy named Lou Miles.
And the fact that Paul has now been invited to
(18:47):
the base to talk He's had, you know, a guy
come over to his house from Air Force intelligence. Paul
is like takes this as evidence that like, I'm on
the right track and the Air Force supports me. I'm
now kind of helping looking, helping the Air Force find
evidence that there's aliens. You know, I kind of got
my ex files job because they think I'm so cool
(19:07):
and smart. Buddy.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
I know.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It's really sick because he's just trying to.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Help, you know, yeah, I no, he is just trying.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
He just wants to keep his country safe of a threat.
You are oh no, my man, No, not at all.
So the expert Doughtie brings to Paul's home is Lou Miles.
Like Valdez, that State trooper. Miles was a guy who
wanted to believe. He had been involved to an extent
(19:36):
with Project Blue Book, which was like a multi year
Air Force investigation into UFOs. It's one of the big
seminal moments in early UFO history, right yeah, yeah. It
was also now the chief scientist for Kirtland's Test Center,
so he knew the reality behind a lot of the
strange aerial phenomena that guys like Paul credited to aliens.
So he's both like open to believing, but also like, oh,
(19:56):
but I know that I know what you're actually seeing,
and it's not aliens. It's this thing that we're working on. Nevertheless,
he was good at talking to Benowitz while Dodie hung
back and took photos with a hidden camera for the NSSA,
who is also involved in this. It's kind of murky
exactly where a FOC begins and the NSA ends, and
(20:17):
like there's some evidence the CIA is also gets involved.
There's like a lot of people are kind of interested
in what Paul is doing, but no one's interested in
Paul's evidence of alien interference. They're again worried about, like
interested is whether or not he's actually like gotten any
encrypted shit. And they also think he might be useful
because being an actually brilliant engineer working in the aerospace
(20:41):
industry and someone who goes to these UFO conventions, he's
kind of trusted within the UFO community. So if they
want to get a lot of people to like pay
attention to something other than the real shady shit they're
doing at Kirtland, he might be able to convince them, right,
he might be able to distract attention away from the
real shit that being done that they want to hide.
(21:03):
So yeah. For the next year, Paul waits for updates
from the military and he continues his special interest exploring
extraterrestrial phenomena. In May of the next year, in nineteen eighty,
a twenty six year old woman named Myrna Hansen called
the state police to claim that she and her six
year old had been accosted by alien visitors near Eagle Nest,
New Mexico. The state troopers basically shrugged and handed the
(21:24):
case over to the only cop they knew who dial
dealt with this sort of shit, Gabe Valdez. If I'm
remembering correctly. I believe Valdez's attitude is that Myrna was
probably a plant. That's not clear to me. Again, a
lot of sketchy shit's going on here.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Immediately doesn't trust the woman, okay.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, well, but also this kind of shit go on,
so I don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, but also is a man, the six year old
fucking with me?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Right? Right? So Gabe calls our boy Paul and they
go off to meet Myrna. Now, by the start of
the eighties, the science of hypnotic regrets, which is not
really a science, had taken off among people who believed
or wanted to believe that they had been abducted by aliens.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Right, So let me turn you into a chicken first
and then tell me if you saw the aliens or not.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Right, Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to hypnotize you
and then walk you like say, a bunch of leading
things that get you to tell a fun alien story.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, you know, a lot of this stuff is some
similar shit's happening with like the Satanic panic. We're just
into the idea. I mean, there's a lot of this
in the X files, right, this idea that people have
memories locked away that this psychologist or psychiatrist who definitely
doesn't ever wind up fucking his patients can unlock.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, people aren't like cool.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah, people aren't susceptible to being influenced to say things
to write please somebody either.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yes, whatsoever? Yeah, speaking of things that aren't sketchy. Sponsors
of this podcast never never, they would never do anything illegal.
Although we did just find out out that what's that
food box company has child labor.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
So which I'd be curious.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I don't know, Sophie, which one was it.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
I don't remember one of them.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Anyway, here's the ads. We're back. Sponsors love that sort
of thing.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Hey, that's what that's their problem for going dynamic.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
That's right, that's right. So Gabe called our boy Paul,
and off they went to meet Myrna Benowitz, who is
working for that civilian organizement, not working for but is
like one of the head guys at APRO, that civilian
looking into the UFO things, and like is also working
with this actual sheriff's deputy. UH partners. He and and
(23:48):
Gabe partner with a University of Wyoming professor who's who's
an ex a quote unquote expert in hypnotic regression. And
this guy's name is literally doctor Leo Sprinkle. Fuck yeah,
great soup, what a seam, great stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Man, good on adulthood.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah yeah, that's a situation.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Leonardo Sprinkle, No, Leonardo Sprinkle, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Oh fuck me. So in his books Saucer, Spooks and Cooks,
Adam Go rightly summarizes Benowitz. By this time had convinced
himself that the ETS were transmitting a mind control beam
to repress my Myrna Hansen's memories. Benowitz believed that the
ETS were likely beaming him in an attempt to disrupt
his ongoing UFO probe. To thwart this extraterrestrial electronic harassment,
(24:36):
Benowitz arranged for Hanson's regression to take place in his
nineteen seventy nine Lincoln town car with multiple sheets of
aluminum foil draped over the windows to deflect the dreaded
alien beams. Benowitz connected these perceived beams to cattle mutilations.
It's so cool, I love this ship. Who's fucking wrapping
his car intend for the aliens are blocking her memory
(24:57):
with the beams. He's married, right, Oh yeah, he's got
a wife and she is a long suffering. I don't
know much about her, but a saint, I'll say that much. No,
a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I know the power of disassociation. This woman is capable of.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
Man.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Oh yeah, it's like, honey, I need the car to
go to the grocery shore.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
No, I have to go interview this woman. I got
the aluminum cable foil.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You get that tenfoil out?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
We need it for the potatoes tonight. Absolutely not. I
needed to protect us from aliens.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
And again he's he's been talking to Dody for months
at this point, and Doty is kind of just like
every he's yes, ending everything Paul says, right, like, oh yeah,
that sounds real, Paul, Yeah, definitely, Oh yeah, No, No,
aluminum foil, great idea, man, Yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Is this where lubinum foil comes from? Is this like
the the origin of that?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Like this will block waves.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Part of it? Yeah. I don't know that Paul is
the only guy who starts it, but this is like
he is on the ground floor of the aluminum foil
will stop the aliens from reading your mind thing? Yes,
that's definitely fair to say he's among the because he's
very influential in this culture.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Tests Yeah, Yeah, so we.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Can see at this point he's already kind of starting
to go over the edge. Right, Paul begins writing analysis
of Mirna's hypnotic regression regression sessions replete with lines like
the alien does all caps kill with the beam, generally
kill with a beam?
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, where bodies? Where bodies?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Okay, Paul, Now the reality is that Hanson had just
brought up a bunch of existent UFO lore during her sessions. Right,
she complained about missing time, She described being picked up
in a tractor beam. She claimed an alien crewman had
brandished a silver knife before cutting into a cow's chest,
and she eventually described being taken to an underground base
(26:51):
where a metallic device was put inside her brain. Now,
this is part of why there's some theorizing that like
maybe she was a plant. Is This is when, and
Paul is the guy who really does more than anyone
to start this. This is when you start getting these
these UFO conspiracies about underground bases. And they're usually either
like bases that are our military shares with the aliens,
(27:14):
or maybe the aliens run the base. You know, there's
some stories about them having fights with the army and whatnot.
And these bases underground. But the real thing behind this
is that a bunch of people in Albuquerque had watched
and like this is something that Paul would have seen
from his house as the Air Force dug this massive
underground nuclear storage space, like the largest weapons underground weapons
(27:38):
storage base ever or at least at that point in time.
And so people are like wondering, what's this really for?
And the answer is pretty evil, Like it's for nukes.
But yeah, nukes, Yeah, they There's a lot of theories
as to why so. Hanson also claimed Perbinowitz that she
had picked up an STD described as a vaginal disease
(28:00):
like strepto coxy bacillas from the aliens. Paul wrote to
his colleagues at the Volunteer Alien Hunting Group that quote,
we are trying to culture it, no luck as yet. Also,
it has evaded all of our known antibiotics with penicillin.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Damn, nobody's doing sex at on these aliens. That's the problem.
I got to learn to wrap it up what it is.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
You got to wrap it up, though, Paul, you are
an electrical engineer. I don't think that you are qualified
to say that it's an unlike it can't be like
it's it's a it's got to be an alien STD.
Maybe it's a normal one. Maybe it's just a normal one.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah, you're not.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
A doctor, Paul. You should first off, you should be
given this late antibiotics. Paul, you're you're not a doctor,
You're really so. He also revealed that MYRNA was being
quote badly beaten on by the alien with their beams
twenty four hours a day, and once Murna starts talking
to him about how she's just constantly being beam attacked,
(28:59):
Paul starts to believe that he too is being beaten
on with beams, and he urges his colleagues, who plan
to do regression work, to lock themselves in a car
in a garage coated with three layers of aluminum foil
to protect themselves from the beams. He's doing well, is
what you say. At this point. He's doing great, our boy, Paul,
(29:19):
very very healthy and making rational choices.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Fall You've fallen so far. You were doing so good, buddy.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So Dody is occasionally checking in with Paul, but he's
also spending the intervening months, you know, seventy nine early
nineteen eighty working on another Mark. And this guy is
a journalist or a quote unquote journalist, depending on how
you see it, with a reputation for he is considered
to be one of the more rigorous guys within the
UFO community. By the UFO community. Take of that what
(29:51):
you will. His name is George Moore, at least that's
how he's described in Project Beta. But also the author
Project Beta really likes this guy, like impressed by him.
So I don't feel the same way about more Go.
Rightley's narrative makes him out to be like less more
of like one of an interchangeable number of UFO kind
(30:12):
of weirdos, although one who is you know, reached out
to by the government to spread dis info and more
claims that like he's down with this, right. And the
reason we're talking about him is that he is the
co author of that book, that first big book that
gets like UFOs back in vogue. Right, he's interviewing that
(30:33):
guy from Roswell. He's one of the guys who helps
make Roswell into like the thing that it is in
our culture. Right, He's written a bunch of other stuff.
You know, he's a very influential figure within this field.
And that inspires Dody and a colleague to approach him.
In July of nineteen eighty, Jim Lorenzen of APRO receives
(30:55):
a letter with no return address claiming to tell the
story of an eighteen year old Civil Air Porce troll
member who had cited a UFO and then been threatened
by a man in black named mister Huck. The young
man had reported this to a mister Dobie at AFOCI, right,
that's the Air Force, that's Dodie's agency. So Lawrence gets
(31:16):
this letter and he thinks it's weird, and he sends
it to Bill Mitchell, who's the best journalist he knows,
and or Bill Moore, who's the best journalist he knows.
And Moore is immediately is like, oh, this is bullshit,
and he knows it because he does some actual journalism.
Like he reaches out to the named witness and then
witnesses like, well, yeah, I saw some like weird lights,
but I never was I was never threatened by a
man in black, Like none of the rest of this
(31:38):
is real.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Man. The tiniest amount of journalism.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, it really, that's all.
Speaker 7 (31:44):
It takes a lot of Yeah, I just double check.
This'll literally just ask this guy if this happened. The
letter was actually the creation of Dodie and his colleagues
at AFOSI. They were hoping to rope in somebody like
Bill Right, somebody smart enough to have credibility in the subculture,
but also who might fall for a fake Right. They
(32:05):
didn't succeed in tricking him, but they continued fishing. In
September of nineteen eighty, More finished a blockbuster book, The
Roswell Incident, which is, Yeah, that's one of the things
that we exnites public entrants.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah. Yeah, So military intelligence gets very interested after this point,
and while he's doing his book tour, he keeps getting
calls at radio stations where like guys will be like, hey,
do you want to have a meeting? You know, I'm
from a government intel agency and I'd like to talk,
and he is. He eventually agrees, and he's met by
a man who dresses and acts very much like a
(32:37):
spy in the movie. Now, my opinion on what's happening
here is that there's some two way feedback. More desperately
wants to be a journalist working on classified fringe like
X files kind of stories, right, and he wants to
feel like he's part of this great game of spies
and spooks. Now the spooks he's talking to, these are
(32:58):
real spies, but they're not the high level operators working
to unearth, you know, Russian nuclear secrets or doing the
fucking cool shit that they make movies about. There are
some enlisted guys at the Air Force, mostly tasked with
lying to Rubes to cover up flight testing, right, and
they here's the thing, this is like a two way
street because they also want to feel like they're doing
(33:19):
cool spy shit, right, and so Doty and George more
part of what they're both doing because they're both much
more rational than Paul's. At this point, they're kind of
LARPing together in my opinion. You know, they're kind of like, well, Dody,
I get to play like I'm this very serious man
in black, and More is like, and I get to
play like I'm fucking Fox Molder almost right, you know,
the shows in the air at this point. But that's
(33:41):
what they're both getting here, right, and More is offered
a deal by Doty and a colleague help us out
with some odd jobs. Right, we need some like deniable
work that you can do and will pass you some
classified UFO information, right, Oh, I see, ye got it.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Yeah, that's how that yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
The first dossier that Dodi and his friend hand over
is bullshit. Like George again to some minor reporting and
is able to figure this out from Bishop's book quote.
After a few preliminaries, the question started, well, what did
you discover? More threw the paper down on the table, and,
trying to sound less annoyed than he actually was, replied,
this whole mess is a lie. None of these people exist.
The agent and Doti looked at each other and smiled,
(34:21):
what's going on? Asked More, you passed the test, said
the man, whom he would eventually refer to with the
code name Falcon. Within a few years, More and his
colleagues would begin to assign code names to their growing
coterie of contacts so they could talk freely about developments
without fear of identification if they were overheard. And you know,
maybe this was a test. I think it's like there
(34:42):
that they were like, okay, so he figured out this
is bullshit. Let's just tell him that that was a test,
and then, you know, stroke his ego. It helped believe
the next thing we say maybe right.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're we're in good yeap.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
We're finding from our side until we actually make him
a believer, and he'll feel great because he's passed all
these tests. So he's right, gonna start looking less and
less because of how smart he believes he is.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Right, and they hand him some shit and he'll admit, Like,
I knew some of what I was putting out into
the UFO community was bunked, but I think some of
it's real too, And like he's you know, he's being
a shady character here as well. Now. Unlike Paul Benowitz,
George is a pretty I think a mentally resilient guy.
(35:23):
Like he definitely is a believer to some extent, but
I think he also I don't think he it takes
it as seriously as Paul does. Right. I don't think
this is breaking his brain. I think he's having a
good time.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
My favorite story from More is that Dody and his
partner apparently thought More might be gay and decided to
test him by like one day when they're hanging out,
they like park the car and more It's like and
a bunch of men start walking past the car wearing
tight pants or high heels and dresses that like fit
really weird and like it doesn't seem like they would
(35:59):
like a comfortable in And apparently this is a test
because they want him to troll the gay bars of
Santa Monica looking for a guy that the FOC wants
for some reason.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh my god, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
It was a slow day in the office when they
came up with right, well, there's like, ah, well, we
want to do something this weekend, right, all right.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
So Dody and his colleagues they get some of what
they want out of more. Right, he launders some info
into the UFO community, some of the dis info they
want to distract from their real programs. But he's also
not he's a little too smart, right, He's not willing
to destroy himself publicly as much as was necessary for
the kind of misinformation that they wanted to get out.
(36:39):
And this is where Paul Benowitz re enters the story.
It is obvious by eighty eighty one that this is
a guy who was not well, but also he's respected,
and he is a guy who, because of his tech acumen,
might endanger some top secret operations. So the decision was
basically made. It let's suck him up a little, right.
Paul gets invited to give a speech at Kirtland and
(37:00):
most of the attendees leave before he's done, but like
one of them is like, uh, it's really interesting stuff, Paul,
and that just lights his ego on fire. Paul so
happy to hear this. He applies for air Force grants,
which he does not receive, but he apparently gets an
NSSA grant, and I think that's maybe the NSA fucking
(37:21):
with him, because some real fuckery is about to happen here.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Hey, I love an ironic grant.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Ironic grant money still spends.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
It's a little more messed up than even that. So
Dody is now spending hours with Paul Benowitz, and he
claims that they became friends and that he found the
orders he received to spread lies to Paul personally distasteful.
If you watch the documentary Mirage Man, you'll see a
lot of Dody, and he does express a degree of
what kind of feels like real regret over what he
(37:52):
did to Paul. He is also a spy and a
professional liar, so I don't know that I believe he's
really or he just knows that he needs to perform regret, right,
I think that's probably likely. Yeah, So god, what do you.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Think like the like the internal notes of a person
that it constantly lies are like, is it just like
a notebook? Is it like a series of post it's
around their house? How do you keep that shit straight?
It sounds exhausting?
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I don't you know. One of the things that you
get when you like read these stories and like the
way in which a lot of the writers and quote
unquote journalists who cover this stuff, the degree of credulity
they have to these guys stories. The thing that becomes
clue to me is like, oh, this is your first
time being lied to by a weirdo in the desert,
(38:39):
Like I spent a lot of my childhood and like, oh,
not childhood, my young adulthood and like off grid places
just listening to like lies from dudes at bars and stuff.
I've heard a lot of crazy stories that definitely aren't true,
and that's a ton of fun. But I think some
of these these people just like decide they want to
live as if that's real. You know that's fair? Yeah? God?
Speaker 1 (39:03):
How many times? How many time shares do you think
they own?
Speaker 2 (39:05):
It feels like, oh, my god, these guys are these
guys are very very vulnerable to time shares. So on
some of his early visits to hang with Paul, he's
shown a complex computer system doty is that Benowitz had
constructed and had his employees help him build to translate
these encrypted messages. Right, it's unclear what's actually happening. Is
(39:29):
he just getting random static and then like running it
through an algorithm to like create text based on that,
and then kind of going through it almost like it's
one of those like word puzzles and just like picking
up words out of a feed of words that like
and then saying like, oh, this is you know, a
message from the aliens, right, because some people will say,
(39:50):
like it looked like gibberish to me, but he would
pull out, you know, five or six words from this
like paragraph of nonsense and say like this is the
real message, right, Yeah, And this is a quote from Dodie.
Benowitz had the computer rigged up to antenna's on his
roof that included a small microwave dish, and he would
look at the screen and there would be images on
the screen that certainly wasn't an alien. But he was
(40:12):
convinced that it was. I would actually tell him I
don't see anything, and he said, I see it, and
I can hear them. And he had these earphones that
he would put on and he said, I can hear
them talking. And I asked, Paul, what language are they speaking?
He said, they're speaking their language. And he wrote one
hundred page document about the alien language. When he went
out to Kirtland to give his presentation to all these generals,
he presented them with that information. So the NSA, and
(40:35):
this is probably where the NSA gets heavily involved and
maybe why they give him that grant, because a plan
gets hatched to gift Paul with a new computer right
that he's told is a gift from a FOC. Some
accounts maybe Doty offered him the machine. Other the story
we'll hear more often is that an Air Force consultant
(40:57):
named doctor j Allen Heinek, who's a former scientific advisor
for Project Blue Book and a big guy in the
alien community. Now I think he denies this, but you'll
hear that too. We don't really know exactly what happened here,
because I've also heard like the NSA did it. I've
heard that the Air Force did it. I don't know.
Adam go Writely notes this computer had been provided at
(41:19):
the behest of the US Air Force, and embedded in
the software was a code that generated an alien language.
With the aid of the Air Force computer, Benowitz claimed
he established constant direct communications with the alien using a
form of hex decimal code with graphics and print out. Now, man,
so what's happening here? Probably is that because some versions
(41:42):
of the story say that the NSA was literally set
up across the street in a rented house, sending messages
directly to Paul's computer, I think it's maybe a little
less direct than that. But basically, he's got this machine
that's probably programmed to allow them to send him fake
messages from aliens, and so he starts getting messages like
this ground Ground, Women of Earth are needed, flexible. The
(42:05):
next just charges our ship. Women do not command the
north among us. You have many friends, water very short,
resist all attempts at alteration. Listen, Orange, make peace. And
Paul doesn't know what to make of this. He becomes convinced,
actually that this is the aliens trying to trick him
into thinking that they're peaceful, but he knows they're really dangerous.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
He's so close. He's getting there.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, he's getting there. Yeah. Greg Valdez, whose Gabe's son,
visited Minowitz during this period and he described seeing the
computer in use. He would type a question into the
computer into in a very complex for the time period
form of a computer program, much like a current email.
Much whoever went surprised he would get an answer to
the questions he was asking. Sometimes he would get an
(42:46):
immediate response, and sometimes it would take several minutes. He
would even receive very crude and basic pictures or graphics
on his computer of these aliens. Some of these pictures
resembled birds with reptile features, and some resembled reptiles with
bird features. During this question and answer session, Gabe instructed
Paul to ask the simple question where are you from?
Paul already knew the answer to the question because he
(43:06):
had already asked the question, and he answered it verbally.
When a response came back on the computer, it simply
said the zeta reticulized star system. So they're now really
fucking with this guy in a way that's very irresponsible.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
I mean, who I want to know who was writing
this stuff, because that's the best job on the base.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
That's right, maybe, Doty, it's probably a team of guy's right, Dody.
There's there's, you know, some evidence he was working with
the NSA, So maybe it's multiple. It's almost certainly multiple
people feeding him bullshit. Yeah, but yeah, the result is
that Paul grows convinced that the US government has signed
a treaty with aliens, perhaps to breed some sort of hybrids,
(43:48):
and they've been given real estate in an underground base
near Dulce, New Mexico. This paid played the happy dual
role of covering up ongoing weird experiments around Dulce. You know,
there's that poison gas fucking hole, and diverting the attention
of Paul and others away from Kirtland Air Force Base
and towards somewhere less harmful, right for theirin Yeah you know.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Now, during his communications with the ETS, Paul became convinced
that there was a secret war going on. Dozens of
base security and Dulce had been murdered by the aliens
and a gunfight. He wrote up plans to lay siege
to Dulce Base and began working to develop a sort
of beam weapon that could kill aliens.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Now, oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yeah, now we're making beam weapons. How about it?
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Oh yeah, he was like, I better hope the aliens
don't have aluminum foil.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Listen, folks, if you if you have a friend who's
making beam weapons to fight the underground aliens. I actually
don't know how you should handle that situation, but probably
don't give him a computer that lies to him.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
I think you got to sign him up for bowling
league or something.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
I get him.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, let's get some more.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Social tapping maybe, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
That social schedule a little bit, you know, and see if.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
He wants to play D and D. Maybe his imagination
needs a little bit of a workout, you know, that.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Would be great.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, Now I have a lot of This sounds
like the overarching conspiracy plot for the first like five
seasons of the X Files. That's because this is almost
certainly the direct inspiration for a lot of the X Files, right, Like,
this is, in fact, because this is all happening in
the eighties, not long before the X File starts, right. Yeah,
So Benowitz, as he's communicating with these aliens, he's gathering
(45:30):
information on this secret underground bass and this war he
believes is going on underneath everyone's noses. He's sending back everything.
He's getting the special agent, Dody, his good friend, and
Dody dutifully forwards this up the chain and encourages Paul.
Keep digging. You know, you're getting close. He's doing the
deep throat thing, right. He's like, yeah, keep gigging, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Yeah, yeah, so close, you're going to get there.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah. Yeah. He's telling him that the aliens at Dulce
Base had been responsible for what he'd seen over Kirtland.
And he does this because he's like, oh yeah, man,
you know what, I ran it up the flagpole and
those that underground base. That's why you were seeing those
weird lights. Don't look near the air Force base. Keep
hanging out around Dulce, you know, that's where the shit's
(46:14):
going on, right, yeah, go rightly claims. The ultimate intent
of stringing Benowitz along, according to researchers like Greg Bishop
and Christian Lambright, was to shift Benowitz's attention away from
Kirkland to a remote area like the Archuleta Mesa your Dulce,
where AFOSI could ramp up their disinformation operation and more
easily stage UFO events. Speaking of stage, you know, what's
(46:39):
not staged is the reliability of our sponsors. That's completely legitimate.
You know, don't even question it, don't think about it.
Hand over your credit card information, text it to me,
I'll buy stuff for you, and we're back. Okay. So,
(47:02):
near the end of nineteen eighty one, Richard Dody convinces
his superiors to let him take Paul in a special
helicopter flight around the Archuleta Mesa since Paul is a pilot,
and they see some stuff. You know, there's some and
apparently Dodi claims that he and other agents put out
props right to look like air vins for the secret
underground base and other evidence. Right, this is so crazy.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
And now there's an art director. Yeah, yeah, there's an
art director.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Production production.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
There's production meetings about like what to do to this
poor man, Like.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah, they're having pitches and stuff yellow pitch meetings on
fucking with this guy. There's a there's a prop team now, yes,
oh no, so because Paul's a pilot. After this first trip,
he follows this by doing his own recon flights over
the area, and he gets very obsessed with this, and
I have some questions. I don't know if I believe
(47:55):
Dody entirely that like he's being handed all of the
men in equipment necess to carry out a staged operation
on the scale he describes. But also it's possible and
in fact, maybe likely, Paul is sometimes seeing some real stuff,
Like he reports seeing what he describes as a crashed
Delta wing aircraft and in this area at this time,
(48:19):
they're working on prototypes of the Stealth Bomber, which is
a looks like that, and in fact Greg Bishop's project Beta,
Like that's his basic conclusion is that like Paul might
have seen like some of the testing stages of the
prototype of like the stealth bomber, right, and maybe that
was like part of what Dodie was doing was if
(48:39):
we get this guy to talk about if we show
if we let this guy see a little bit of
the real stealth bomber program but convince them it's aliens,
then anybody who's talking about like a Delta wing aircraft,
right will be like, oh, you're just talking about a UFO,
not this actual thing that we're working on.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Right, Yeah, exactly, Let's get everybody off the scent once again.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
So maybe that's what's happening, or maybe it was just
an easy thing to make look like a plane from
the air shit like this. They do this in World
War Two. A bunch we do it, and actually the
Nazis do it too, where you're like make basically fake
out of like wooden shit and spray paint tanks and
stuff so people think there's an army where it isn't right,
so oh it's not.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah yeah, or I'm from in Maryland.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
There's a fake cop car on, like one on the highway.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah, is up just to slow you down?
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Yeah, I love that shit. Now. There are other claims
about what happened to Paul and his wife during this
period that are more questionable. One rite up I found
by the Cyberthetic project claims that Paul and his wife
developed red sores or perhaps some sort of rashes on
their body. I've seen that a few times. The cyber
(49:47):
Athetic Project describes itself as a token project with a
mission to unite holder so that they can communicate in
an open forum on the blockchain without fear of being
judged or censored. So you'd be right about questioning it.
As a source that said, this is all a lot
of fun. So I'm going to quote from it anyway,
just you know, a lot of salt here. It has
since been revealed that the NSA was in possession of
sensitive documents concerning advanced technologies such as active denial systems
(50:11):
and active denial technology. These technologies were apparently being developed
by Sandia Labs and Kirk Glenn Air Force Base with
the aim of producing a non lethal weapon that could
be used against enemies. Were they using this technology on
the Benowitz family? The answer to that is also unclear.
What is clear is that Paul and his wife were
being physically impacted by his research into UFOs, And that's
(50:32):
maybe not like I don't I think probably likelier than
some sort of weird beam weapon is that Paul is
losing his mind and he and his wife are both
very stressed out by this, yeah, and convinced that they're
being targeted by aliens, and they have like shingles, a
stress rash, something like all sorts of shit, you know.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
Oh yeah, it feels like they probably would have broken
out in some sort of like, yeah, stress rash of
some kind, like, yes, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
I have several friends from the California fires.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
That had them a week go right, right, Imagine prolonged
experience to potential aliens for years.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Yeah, you have to right, I don't think that that's
it's at all unlikely that something like that is the
case here. And yeah, So as he grew more obsessed
with seeking out the truth, Paul's business declined, which is
another reason why maybe he's dealing with some stress related problems.
Ninety more office manager. Oh my god, I just need
(51:26):
you just sign Paul. We just really need to make
this censor man, could we? Okay, you've got the whole
team working on translating alien speech. All right, well, I'm
going to maybe print down some resumes.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
In nineteen seventy eight, Thunder Scientific had thirty employees. By
nineteen eighty one that the number was down by almost half.
There were He starts hiding like guns and knives around
his home as the nineteen eighties wore on, because he's
just incredibly paranoid now, and he continues to attend UFO
events throughout the mid to late nineteen eighties. His yarn
about dulc, a base which was almost certainly invented or
(52:02):
at least heavily egged on by Richard Dodi, had been
a magnificent success. In nineteen eighty seven, John Lear, a
prominent ufologist, stated that he had independently confirmed elements of
Benowitz's story right that there's this underground base at a Dulce.
Several books in the late nineteen eighties published their own
(52:23):
variants of the story, which helped to spark a paranoid
belief and secret underground alien bases that is still a
significant part of qan on today. Like a lot of
QAnon guys believe that there's a base under the Getty
and Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
That's why I didn't barn.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
That's why I didn't burn. They kept it safe. That's
where they keep the kids. Ye center Villa. I think
it's the center either way, do a pizza gate at
both places? Sophy, You know what, No, that didn't end
well for that guy. There's a lot that's sad about this.
But one of the worst things is that Paul had
almost certainly stumbled upon a very real and y reimportant
(53:00):
conspiracy at Kirtland see today. Kirtland Air Force Base is
a major testing site for advanced drone technology, including weapons,
systems to defeat drone swarms, and other experimental tech. We
know that in nineteen eighty a black mystery vehicle was
spotted at the base. This is right around the same
time Paul is making his initial reports. So he's going
to show you a picture of this mystery vehicle that
(53:22):
is being tested at Kirkland Air Force Base when Paul
is observing shit, right, it looks kind of like an
SR seventy one, but it's like a drone version almost.
This was apparently what now we know this was called
at the time td a tdux toe target. A right
up in the war zone describes it as a high
(53:42):
speed towed aerial target to support the testing of infrared
and electronic countermeasures or IRCM and ECM, respectively. Something like
this would both look very weird in the sky and
also might put off some of the signals that Paul was,
you know, receiving right now. I don't know if this
is what he saw was other stuff, because other shit
(54:04):
is being tested at Kirtland, including precursors to our modern
drone program. Right, Paul very likely came across evidence of
the development of unmanned weapons systems that have gone on
to kill huge numbers of people. No aliens need to
be involved at all, for this to both make sense
and be a real conspiracy theory. It's also very likely
Duty wasn't fully in the loop as to what was
(54:25):
being developed there, because he wouldn't need to be, and
in fact, the more he believed the bullshit he was
pushing on Paul, the safer the real secrets were. In
nineteen eighty eight, Yep, yep, cool stuff. The drone program.
It always comes back to that.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
Hooray, so exciting. But they make pretty firework alternatives.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
It's fine, it's all good stuff. Yeah, don't worry. If
they can inform Steve Harvey in the sky.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Yeah they can see. It's fine. They should have done that.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
That what the aliens love. Steve Harvey.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
Paul Benowitz went to the Air Force. I keep seeing
Steve Harvey's face in the night sky. I don't know
what's going on. In nineteen eighty eight, Paul published plans
for an assault on Dulce Base, which he'd become convinced
was the nexus of an alien plan to control the world.
That same year, he became convinced that his wife was
working with the aliens, or perhaps in control of the
(55:22):
entire alien conspiracy. Correctly, wife, Yeah, she's really putting she's
really going through it here and in this passage from
go Wrightley's book, which is based on interviews with Bill
Moore and Richard Dody, he describes a profoundly ill man.
Both Bill Moore and Richard Dody, on separate occasions, witnessed
first hand Benowitz's mounting paranoia, describing him as spun out
(55:45):
and barricaded inside his homes, chainsmoking cigarettes, waiting in fevered
anticipation for the final et showdown. In Project Beta, Greg
Bishop recounted Benowitz told More that after the aliens injected him,
they would make him drive his car into the desert
in the middle of the night. He couldn't remember what
he did after he got there. Around this time, Benowitz's
family committed him to a mental health facility for nervous exhaustion.
(56:08):
Oh man, you will sometimes hear it arrantly stated that
he commits suicide as a result of this. He does not.
This thankfully doesn't have as sad a story as it might.
Paul gets out after about a month, and he seems
to have pulled himself out of the UFO community. After
this point, he and his wife stay together. They're married
(56:28):
more than fifty years and he lives until two thousand
and three, so you know, kind of a happy ending.
But boy, it didn't it almost wasn't.
Speaker 3 (56:40):
Yeah, for real, man, I also shout out to the
place he was committed.
Speaker 1 (56:46):
Apparently they did the job. Yeah, that's a serious deprogramming man.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
You gotta stop, you gotta stop. In the computer the
NSA gave you.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
Yeah, a computer man.
Speaker 3 (56:59):
Man some four door just cracked all over their knuckles
and he said, all right, let's get into.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
It, Paul. We need to have a long conversation about
things that are real and things that aren't.
Speaker 5 (57:09):
So.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
Richard Dody would eventually retire from the Air Force and
spend much of his retirement and golden years doing the
UFO convention circuit he came. He will say that he
was hired to consult on two seasons of The X Files,
and that he wrote the screenplay for an episode. He's
not credited as the writer for that episode, but you know,
(57:30):
his stuff definitely helps inspire the X Files, right like
he is, he is for sure involved in what becomes
the X Files purely because of like his role in
UFO culture.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
I'm sure he wrote a script, but.
Speaker 2 (57:44):
Yeah, I'm sure he wrote a script.
Speaker 3 (57:45):
Yeah, a lot of people have written scripts, and he is.
Speaker 2 (57:50):
He's a member of a couple of different organizations. Now,
he's a very controversial figure within the UFO community because
he both definitely worked for Air Force Intelligence and tells
a lot of stories about seeing aliens. He claims you
have literally seen them, and also admits that he lied
about aliens for years to a guy who nearly lost
(58:11):
his mind forever. I wouldn't trust him. But for an
idea of how Richard Dorty presents himself, now, here's a
clip from him on the New Realities YouTube channel being
interviewed by a UFO ology author named Ellen Steinfield.
Speaker 6 (58:27):
I mean, you're no longer working for the Air Force Intelligence, right.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
But right, that's right.
Speaker 5 (58:34):
I don't work for Air Force Intelligence.
Speaker 6 (58:38):
Well, don't be offended by this question. But how do
we know you're still not working for them? And you're
just saying you're not working for them.
Speaker 5 (58:46):
Well, there's a lot of controversy over that. But number one,
I wouldn't have any reason to I'm I left the agency,
left the intelligence agency back in nineteen eighty. Although I
people bring up the fact that I was brought back
to active service in ninety one and ninety three. But
(59:07):
that had nothing to do with UFOs or disinformation. It
had to do with what I did in Europe when
after the Wall fell. So I work as a private investigator.
I have no connections official connections with the United States
government or intelligence community. I do have a lot of
(59:29):
friends that still work within the intelligence community, and they
feed me a lot of information that I share with you.
I mean I shared it with you at the UFO MegaCon.
Speaker 2 (59:41):
Yeah. So yeah, I mean I think he's still and
they I even found an interview where he's like talked about,
like he's asked about, like because Tom DeLong of Blink
one eighty two is a big guy and is involved
with Dotie in one of the organizations he's in, and
one of the interviews is like, are you doing a
Paul Benowitz to Tom DeLong. He's like, A, of course not.
I would never.
Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
I absolutely would never.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
I think he might be doing a Paul Benowitz on
a couple of guys. Maybe that's just fun for him. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
It reminds me of what's the.
Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
Uh in the Tanya Hardy in the Assault of Nancy
Kerrigan Hardy. Yeah, yeah, Galuuly and yeah, yeah, yeah, idiot friend,
the amount bullshit that they just believe about themselves and
talking about like yeah, like the other guy Eckert, he
like talked about how he like was a Special Forces
(01:00:36):
guy and had all this ship made.
Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
You're like, damn you believe this though.
Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
I've heard so many fun lies about being Special Forces
from dudes, like especially out in like the mountains, Like
every old man you meet who like will tell you
about all of the crazy shit he did in Vietnam,
and it's it's just always it's always nonsense, Like, yeah,
I know a guy we're in the little mountaintown where
(01:01:01):
I used to live who was a Seal team member
during Vietnam, and his reaction is very different, which was
like he handed me a book that was written about
like him and his colleagues and was like, you want
to know anything, just read that. I don't like talking
about it.
Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
Yeah, if you've actually done any of this stuff, like
it's it's not what it's it's not the movies.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
But it's kind of a bad time.
Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Yeah, I have a lot to answer.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
For and process didn't like it. Not not happy with
how that all went.
Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
No, No, not worth the free beer to talk about
Joe really.
Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
No, Yeah, anyway, well that's the aliens or not. But
maybe there's aliens. I don't know. This is not conclusive
on that matter one way or the other. But there's
definitely a bunch of spy agencies who will light to
you and destroy your brain if they think it will
help them hide the fact that they're making some fucked
(01:01:56):
up shit to kill people in other countries.
Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
Of course, maybe the alien is inside of you, listener.
The entire time, the.
Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Real alien was always the military industrial complex.
Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
Yeah, exactly, because you know, to find what an alien is,
it's something that works against like the good of humanity.
Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Then in that case, the government is run by aliens.
Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
I don't know who knows, who knows what's out there
or in here?
Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Apparently?
Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
Yeah, but what is out there and what is in here?
Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Are your pluggables? Brandy Bam what transition? Thanks Sophie. Yeah
you can.
Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
You can find me online at Brand Dazzle on all
of the platforms, including the new ones and the old ones.
Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
My podcast is called Lady.
Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
The Lady comes out every Wednesday and has been around
for thirteen years. Burn this Record is my comedy label
that I run where I put out amazing comedy albums
and people all over the country that are.
Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Very funny and also good people.
Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
And then I have my own album coming out on
that label at the in the middle of.
Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
March, and I would love for you to buy it.
That'd be amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Yeah, Brandy Posey dot com has all the information for
all of the things. But yeah, come say hi. I
if you're a fan of the show, you like me,
I promise, so come on, all.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Right, everybody, Well that's the episode until next time again, folks,
I say this every time. Head to Kurtland air Force Face.
Get a camera out and just start filming and go
slowly insane, get a pilot's license, fly over some random
you know, just just do some shit. You know, why not?
Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Nothing bad could happen.
Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Let's go into hell in a handbasket. You might as
well lose your mind about some alien shit.
Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
If you want to test your relationship, go down an
alien hole.
Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
See if your wife really loves you. You know, this
is the only way to know. It's the only way
to know.
Speaker 8 (01:04:03):
Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia
dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
You get your podcasts.
Speaker 8 (01:04:15):
Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes
every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot
com slash at Behind the Bastards
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Oh man, welcome back to behind the Bastards. All of
you beautiful people and also all of you ugly people.
You know, all all people are beautiful, except for I
just kind of said that. I didn't that they're.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Not that inside and outside beauty.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You know, Well, there's only one kind. There's only one kind.
I'm not going to say what it is. I'm not
going to say which kind of beauty, but there's only
one kind. Yeah, it's elbows. I'm an elbow guy. I'm
an elbow guy. Yeah, I'm starting the wiki feet of elbows.
It's just a bunch of like really blurry cropped photos
of like elbows of different celebrities.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh my god, do you know there's no nerve endings
in your elbow skin?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
That's the hottest thing about it.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, it's an elbow guy and a friend in my
Comparative Religions class that discovered weed and will make everybody
bite his elbows the beginning of every class.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
And oh that that's a pervert. That's a par Oh
that's an elbow pervert right there.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Well, currently he's a born again meteorologist in North Carolina.
So yes, that is a pervert.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
No, I can see why you're be scared that God
is angry at you if you're that kind of pervert,
Because he is, but that that makes it hotter for
a lot of us. Brandy Posy, welcome back to the program.
You want to plug anything at the top before we
get too deep into elbows?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, of course, before we get elbow deep.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Bowen, bowen with Robert and Brandy getting a damn Mayby.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yeah. I run a comedy record label. It's called Burn
This Record. We seekul to create like equity between our
artists in a way that most comedy labels don't. I
have put out seventeen albums. Last year was our first year.
This year we have about fifteen.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
It's digital only. And everybody is.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Funny but a good person, which is a ven diagram
that I wish more people in comedy paid attention.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yes, well I think that's awesome. Uh So check that
out everybody, and uh let's let's get Are you ready
to get back into this story, into these aliens and spooks? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
speaking of bows, Richard Dody probably doesn't have nice elbows.
He's our Air Force Office of Special Investigations.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
When you said, I was like, are we talking for
your hair?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Are we talking? Are we talking speakers? Are we talking?
There's so many bows? Does he have no bows? No? No,
no partners, what are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
You know what? Speaking of bows? I will let pee.
This is just yesterday I wound up just because of
it happened as I was driving, like responding to a
three car crash, and there was a young woman in
the middle car who was the only one who was hurt.
And she was hurt because she had a beret in
like the back.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Of her for for claw yeah, which is a no go.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Anyway, don't wear those in the car a car.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Do your hairs, bringing.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Your claw clip in the car, but do not wear
it while you're while you're in the car, because it would.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
You bad bad.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
No.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I have a friend that is her sister's an ear nurse,
and when she gets in her car, her whole back
seat is full of those claws because when it gets
in her car and she throws it, she just takes
it out in the back seat because the number one
thing that she sees and hear her r room is
that in women's skulls from the car accidents.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So thankfully, this lady seemed fine, I do like.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
You're saying barett the way you said it so surgical.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I thought that's what it was called. I thought that's
what it was.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You're not wrong, but you're also wrong anyway.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Don't don't wear those. And also, if you're ever in
a car accident and your head is hurt in any way,
shape or form, go get checked out by a professional.
Don't just assume it's okay. You don't want to wind
up like that famous guy's wife. No. Yeah, one brain
saying that to be wasn't saying that to be flippant.
It's a real problem. Yes, go to the doctor. So
(04:10):
let's talk about fucking UFOs and a guy who didn't
go to the doctor. Maybe enough, or maybe went too much.
I don't know. Richard Doty was born sometime around the
immediate post war period. He is. I haven't actually run
into his exact and that said, I didn't like go
super hardcore digging into it. His father and his uncle,
(04:31):
Edward were his chief influences growing up, and both were
military men. This guy is kind of, you know, an
I think, a like mid boomer something like that. And
his uncle Edward had been a career officer and meteorologist.
In nineteen forty seven, he'd been made chief of an
Air Force weather research station working on something called the
(04:53):
Atmospheric Divergence Project. Now, decades later, because Richard dody is
not just the guy who's going to like spread a
bunch of lies to Paul Benowitz that helps drive him mad,
he also becomes like an alien influencer, claiming that like,
oh no, I actually did also see real aliens, guys,
and you can totally trust me. I know that. Like
my whole thing is, I lied to a guy about
(05:13):
aliens for years, but also you can trust me when
I tell you about aliens that I saw.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Ye, yeah, yeah, I lied because I also tell the truth.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yes, how exactly exactly now that I'm out, you can
trust me. So Richard Dodie, the spook and liar kind
of guy has in kind of modern interviews, tells viewers
that the atmospheric divergence project his uncle worked on was
an attempt to quote change or neutralize gravity around a
rocket to aid in space travel. Now, I haven't found
(05:42):
the exact details and the specific project his uncle worked on,
but I don't think this is true because while I
did not find the reports on that project. I did
spend way too much of my research time reading through
an Air Force handbook on meteorological techniques and atmospheric divergence
impacts the growth of systems in a bunch of ways
that are obviously relevant to an Air Force meteorologist and
(06:04):
not at all involved with fucking up gravity for space travel. Right,
this sounds like a normal meteorologist thing to do. Richard
is a tall tail spinner, right, yes, yeah, yeah yeah.
And one of the issues with my sources because the
two of them, I've got a bunch of articles in
here that you can you can find. But there's also
two books that I read for this. One is Saucerged,
Spooks and Kooks by Adam go Rightly and one is
(06:25):
Project Beta by Greg Bishop. Both of them are very entertaining.
I think Greg's book, Project Beta is the better book.
Both of these guys also believe in stuff I don't
particularly Bishop, while I think he because I've caught there's
some stuff in go Rightley's book that I caught that's
just not factually just slips out that he slipped up on.
(06:46):
I think Bishop is more familiar with the subculture. But
also Bishop definitely believes a bunch of shit. I don't.
And he's you can tell he kind of is excited
at like talking with these spooks and spies, and I
think he gives them a lot more credit than he
ought to.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Oh god, and he's caught up on the romance of
it all. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I think he is not in a way that I
think makes his basic conclusions wrong or his book not
worth reading. Again, I think it's actually quite worth reading.
It's quite a good book, and I think he's a
good writer. I just don't I'm not sympatico with him
on all of the conclusions he comes to about these guys.
I don't mean that as an insult to the man,
because again I liked his book a lot so, but
(07:27):
that is an issue when it comes to like trying
to figure out shit here right, and in Project Beta,
Bishop does do about like the best of any of
them at kind of questioning Dody by saying, perhaps this
had something to do with weather control, or maybe it
was something more prosaic, and like it didn't. It wasn't
rather control their gravity. It was just studying how this
thing that affects meteorological forecasts work. Very normal thing for
(07:50):
a meteorologists to do anyway, Doty joined the Air Force
as a young man, just like his Paul and uncle
and per Bishop. He entered in nineteen sixty eight as
a combat security policeman. Dody would later claim he was
quote tested and tracked throughout his career to become a
base security guard and then a special agent for FOC,
(08:11):
the Air Force Office of Special Investigations. Now that's how
Dody tells the story, and I don't think he's I don't.
I think that's very silly because I'm not an expert
on this, but I've known a number of people who
were in different military intelligence roles, and I will tell
(08:32):
you one thing that is very consistent. Base security guard
is not a job that you are scouted for your
entire career, right, Like it's kind of a shit gig actually,
Like nobody likes base security and it's not really what
most kids join wanting to do with their lives, right.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Oh no, it's a cast step above base janitor. But
like also the same kind of Yeah, I'm not a
smirch either job necessarily, but also like you're not security.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I'll smirch it some. I'm smirching a little here.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Just a scooch of smirch.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
We'll take it, yeah, yeah, yeah, And Dotie really wants
people to believe that he was like he was scouted
by the Air Force because like, we need to go
we can trust to do security for our very secret,
very real alien projects, and like wow, we we noted
from the beginning of his time in the Air Force
that he had something special, right, And that's the way
he talks about his backgrounds.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Very observative report but with aliens.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Says yes, yes, and you know, a FOC is more
prestigious than base security. He eventually does, you know, he's
a special agent. He's a sergeant, but he's also a
special agent for this and that is like a more
prestigious role. But also his job with an a FOCY
isn't the most prestigious thing because other members of that
agency are literally this is like the time that he's
(09:53):
in is one of like the high points for like
spy shit anywhere in the WORL like history. Right, other
guys and a FOC are locked in life and death
spy battles with like fucking got some of the best
spies on planet Earth, right, you know you've got the
foreign you know, Russian and Chinese agents. Like there's there's
some really interesting shit going on here. Dodie's job during
(10:15):
this like great international game is to light of people
who believe they'd been molested by Martians. So he doesn't
have the sexiest job within this sort of field, right.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Not quite espionage James Bond.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
You know, there are some guys in a foc doing
some really like you talk about the ethics of it,
but like interesting spy shit. He's I mean, it is interesting,
but not in the same way I'd like to see
his Bond movie though I would like for sure.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, this, this low rent Bond is definitely a movie
that I'd be into.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
That's kind of the premise of the Slow Horses TV show, right,
which which does have one the commissioner Gordon's in it,
and he's great. Yeah, hey the show. I have mixed
opinions on it, but he's always always a charm. The originals, well,
not the original, the one from the Nolan movies. I
forget his name, Gary Oldman. So Doty today claims that
right after basic training, and again this is also bullshit,
(11:09):
he was taken to a room and shown footage of
UFOs and like I don't believe that if there are
aliens that the government has evidence of, obviously there's some
people that they led into that secret within military intelligence.
It's not going to be anyone who just finished basic
because you know who can finish basic training almost anyone.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Like yeah, hey, eighteen year old, about a frontal lobe
that is fully firmed.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
You want to see aliens right now?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Like unless when't fuck with you specifically, maybe, but like
not a like an official constructive capacity for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, hey, guy whose primary hobby is getting blackout drunk
every single night of the week, Let's let's show you
an alien video.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
In all those push ups you did, Guess what, here's
also aliens.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
You passed the test.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah. Now, this is generally described as a test, and
I think that's how like Bishop describes it in his book,
is that Doty is being tested to see who, or
at least Dotie claims he was being tested to see,
you know, if he could be trusted with more detailed
info about extraterrestrials. So I guess there's a possibility that
maybe something like this did happen and it wasn't real aliens,
but it was just like let's show a bunch of
(12:20):
guys alien footage and like, see who leaks it? Right
that they saw something? You know, see who we can trust? Stuff?
Like I don't think even then, I kind of doubt
it because they weren't really doing that to guys who
just finished Basic. But shit like that is happening within
different kind of intelligence agencies, and it's not just aliens
they lie about. The disinfo is given out to people
during this period of time in different intel roles just
(12:42):
to see if they can be trusted, right, Like, that's
a thing that happens. Dody also claims that he served
as a guard at Area fifty one, where he saw
a UFO. Now again, Area fifty one is a real base.
They are really try doing experimental shit with planes there.
This could be true, and in fact, the story he
tells might might be true, but not in a way
(13:02):
he wants you to think, because he claims while he's
there he sees them wheeling out this huge black disc
that's some sort of craft that they're trying to get
into the atmosphere that they like launch and it doesn't
look like anything he's ever seen, and his commanding officer
takes him aside, right, because he sees dodies fascinated in this.
And here's the conversation that is related in the book
(13:23):
Project Beta Airman, Dody, do you know what that craft was,
asked the officer. No, sir, that's what is generally known
as a UFO, and it's not one of ours. It's
on loan, yes, sir. Someday, if you play your cards right,
you will learn know a lot more. But for now,
you are to tell no one about this and you
are not to discuss it with anyone. Is that clear?
Dodi never talked about it again, And first off, obviously
(13:44):
he did. You you're telling us this story.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
So from reading it in a book that's definitely been
recounted several times.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
But also Pieri, Yeah, that could be basically true and
have nothing to do with aliens. He could have been
on guard duty seen a weird craft that maybe like
it was a fucking French or Canadian thing that like
we were doing tests on, right, So it's on loan,
and his boss is just kind of like, hey, you know,
maybe if you play your cards right, you'll you'll get
we'll trust you with more stuff, right, And I don't know,
(14:14):
I don't know if Dodie actually gets much more trust.
But this could be largely accurate, although I don't think
that's likely. Yeah yeah, that said, like there's evidence he
is working. He probably he definitely does see experimental craft
through his job for FOC later in his career, because
he's working at bases where they're doing that. That doesn't
mean that he's told what it all is because they
(14:35):
they silo that info. Even if it's your job to
stop people from finding out about these programs, you may
not be told much about them because it's a need
to know a thing, and you don't. Right, you need
to stop people from filming the weird craft. You don't
need to know how it works. You don't need to
know what it is, right.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Like no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
They don't want curious people working on like lower levels
of this stuff at all, Like they're not. No, they
want you to just come in and be like, my
job is to do this and then have blinders up
to everything.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I didn't see shit. This is why I've been saying
this for years. The government should have all of its
security done by street level drug dealers. You know, those
guys can keep their fucking mouth shut.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
You know, absolutely no snitches, exactly exactly Area fifty one,
all security provided by coke dealers.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Just don't give me any coke. Then they talk about everything. Yeah, yeah,
that came from sober. Otherwise it ends very badly.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Oh man, what a fun place. Just a bunch of
sober coke dealers.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, a bunch of sober coke dealers at Area fifty one.
This is going to end well. So there's evidence that
a lot of you know, Dody is a credulous guy.
He does come to at least he will claim to
believe in this. He might just be fucking with everybody.
I don't really know, but a lot of guys in
his kind of level, in different intel agencies are believers themselves,
(15:56):
right so at any rate, Doty claims that his chief
mentor in spy shit was a guy named Seelely Howard,
a former insurance salesman. According to Dotie, he gave him
this sage advice early in his spook career. There are
three sorts of people you will be dealing with. The
First are the ones who will believe anything you say.
The second are those who will, at least at first
refuse to believe you. The last is the group who
(16:18):
won't believe you at first but might be willing to
be convinced. And what I find interesting about that is
those last two groups are the same group of people. Yes,
people who don't believe you at first, but you can
make them believe you. I don't see the difference.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Uh yeah, no, one is just on a longer timeline.
And yeah, even baba, yeah yeah, yeah. Sure.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
So as soon as Paul Benowitz called the Air Force
with results of his surveillance, they knew they might have
a problem. The Air Force Office of Special Investigations very
quickly became concerned that Paul Benowitz had stumbled onto his
secret laser based tracking system located in Kirtland. At least
that's one of the things he might have stumbled on.
Greg Bishop, who wrote Project Beta, noted that these transmissions
(16:59):
sounded like Jibrish language that had been distorted and sped up,
or to a true believer like Paul, they sounded like
alien's speech. Edwards, chief of Kurtland based Security, had previously
described Doty to a friend at the NSA as his
drug man. And so that's less cool than it sounds.
As Greg Bishop writes, the duty simply involved checking for
(17:19):
allegations of illegal drug use on the base, but it
was only one of aged Dotey's minor assignments. The FOC
has jurisdiction over all criminal and security investigations at Air
Force facilities. Most FOC agents must carry a high security clearance.
Agents need to know what they are protecting so that
security threats can be recognized quickly. Benowitz carefully described to
Doty what he had seen and recorded, all while trying
(17:40):
to keep what he really thought was going on to
himself for the moment. And this is where I think
Bishop is too credulous because again think back to Roswell,
the first guy, Like they don't tell the people who
are looking and responding to that crashed balloon that Project
Mogul exists. It's very common for these guys not to
be in the loop about stuff, right, especially since he's
(18:03):
just a sergeant, you know, like he's not a super
high level guy here. That said, Dody is kind of
sent to talk to Bennowitz, and he's like, hey, you know,
why don't you come to the base and we can
talk about your research. And so Paul heads to the
base and he shows Dody what he's got, and Dody
is initially kind of you know, bored, and then he
perks up when Paul starts to show him his radio array.
(18:25):
He returns to the base to talk with some NSA
colleagues about being bringing an expert out to Paul's home
to see what he built. So he visits Paul at
his house, and this time with an actual like like
scientist in tow and another engineer, a guy named Lou Miles.
And the fact that Paul has now been invited to
(18:47):
the base to talk He's had, you know, a guy
come over to his house from Air Force intelligence. Paul
is like takes this as evidence that like, I'm on
the right track and the Air Force supports me. I'm
now kind of helping looking, helping the Air Force find
evidence that there's aliens. You know, I kind of got
my ex files job because they think I'm so cool
(19:07):
and smart. Buddy.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
I know.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It's really sick because he's just trying to.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Help, you know, yeah, I no, he is just trying.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
He just wants to keep his country safe of a threat.
You are oh no, my man, No, not at all.
So the expert Doughtie brings to Paul's home is Lou Miles.
Like Valdez, that State trooper. Miles was a guy who
wanted to believe. He had been involved to an extent
(19:36):
with Project Blue Book, which was like a multi year
Air Force investigation into UFOs. It's one of the big
seminal moments in early UFO history, right yeah, yeah. It
was also now the chief scientist for Kirtland's Test Center,
so he knew the reality behind a lot of the
strange aerial phenomena that guys like Paul credited to aliens.
So he's both like open to believing, but also like, oh,
(19:56):
but I know that I know what you're actually seeing,
and it's not aliens. It's this thing that we're working on. Nevertheless,
he was good at talking to Benowitz while Dodie hung
back and took photos with a hidden camera for the NSSA,
who is also involved in this. It's kind of murky
exactly where a FOC begins and the NSA ends, and
(20:17):
like there's some evidence the CIA is also gets involved.
There's like a lot of people are kind of interested
in what Paul is doing, but no one's interested in
Paul's evidence of alien interference. They're again worried about, like
interested is whether or not he's actually like gotten any
encrypted shit. And they also think he might be useful
because being an actually brilliant engineer working in the aerospace
(20:41):
industry and someone who goes to these UFO conventions, he's
kind of trusted within the UFO community. So if they
want to get a lot of people to like pay
attention to something other than the real shady shit they're
doing at Kirtland, he might be able to convince them, right,
he might be able to distract attention away from the
real shit that being done that they want to hide.
(21:03):
So yeah. For the next year, Paul waits for updates
from the military and he continues his special interest exploring
extraterrestrial phenomena. In May of the next year, in nineteen eighty,
a twenty six year old woman named Myrna Hansen called
the state police to claim that she and her six
year old had been accosted by alien visitors near Eagle Nest,
New Mexico. The state troopers basically shrugged and handed the
(21:24):
case over to the only cop they knew who dial
dealt with this sort of shit, Gabe Valdez. If I'm
remembering correctly. I believe Valdez's attitude is that Myrna was
probably a plant. That's not clear to me. Again, a
lot of sketchy shit's going on here.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Immediately doesn't trust the woman, okay.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, well, but also this kind of shit go on,
so I don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, but also is a man, the six year old
fucking with me?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Right? Right? So Gabe calls our boy Paul and they
go off to meet Myrna. Now, by the start of
the eighties, the science of hypnotic regrets, which is not
really a science, had taken off among people who believed
or wanted to believe that they had been abducted by aliens.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Right, So let me turn you into a chicken first
and then tell me if you saw the aliens or not.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Right, Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to hypnotize you
and then walk you like say, a bunch of leading
things that get you to tell a fun alien story.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, you know, a lot of this stuff is some
similar shit's happening with like the Satanic panic. We're just
into the idea. I mean, there's a lot of this
in the X files, right, this idea that people have
memories locked away that this psychologist or psychiatrist who definitely
doesn't ever wind up fucking his patients can unlock.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, people aren't like cool.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah, people aren't susceptible to being influenced to say things
to write please somebody either.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yes, whatsoever? Yeah, speaking of things that aren't sketchy. Sponsors
of this podcast never never, they would never do anything illegal.
Although we did just find out out that what's that
food box company has child labor.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
So which I'd be curious.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I don't know, Sophie, which one was it.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
I don't remember one of them.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Anyway, here's the ads. We're back. Sponsors love that sort
of thing.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Hey, that's what that's their problem for going dynamic.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
That's right, that's right. So Gabe called our boy Paul,
and off they went to meet Myrna Benowitz, who is
working for that civilian organizement, not working for but is
like one of the head guys at APRO, that civilian
looking into the UFO things, and like is also working
with this actual sheriff's deputy. UH partners. He and and
(23:48):
Gabe partner with a University of Wyoming professor who's who's
an ex a quote unquote expert in hypnotic regression. And
this guy's name is literally doctor Leo Sprinkle. Fuck yeah,
great soup, what a seam, great stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Man, good on adulthood.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah yeah, that's a situation.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Leonardo Sprinkle, No, Leonardo Sprinkle, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Oh fuck me. So in his books Saucer, Spooks and Cooks,
Adam Go rightly summarizes Benowitz. By this time had convinced
himself that the ETS were transmitting a mind control beam
to repress my Myrna Hansen's memories. Benowitz believed that the
ETS were likely beaming him in an attempt to disrupt
his ongoing UFO probe. To thwart this extraterrestrial electronic harassment,
(24:36):
Benowitz arranged for Hanson's regression to take place in his
nineteen seventy nine Lincoln town car with multiple sheets of
aluminum foil draped over the windows to deflect the dreaded
alien beams. Benowitz connected these perceived beams to cattle mutilations.
It's so cool, I love this ship. Who's fucking wrapping
his car intend for the aliens are blocking her memory
(24:57):
with the beams. He's married, right, Oh yeah, he's got
a wife and she is a long suffering. I don't
know much about her, but a saint, I'll say that much. No,
a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I know the power of disassociation. This woman is capable of.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
Man.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Oh yeah, it's like, honey, I need the car to
go to the grocery shore.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
No, I have to go interview this woman. I got
the aluminum cable foil.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You get that tenfoil out?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
We need it for the potatoes tonight. Absolutely not. I
needed to protect us from aliens.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
And again he's he's been talking to Dody for months
at this point, and Doty is kind of just like
every he's yes, ending everything Paul says, right, like, oh yeah,
that sounds real, Paul, Yeah, definitely, Oh yeah, No, No,
aluminum foil, great idea, man, Yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Is this where lubinum foil comes from? Is this like
the the origin of that?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Like this will block waves.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Part of it? Yeah. I don't know that Paul is
the only guy who starts it, but this is like
he is on the ground floor of the aluminum foil
will stop the aliens from reading your mind thing? Yes,
that's definitely fair to say he's among the because he's
very influential in this culture.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Tests Yeah, Yeah, so we.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Can see at this point he's already kind of starting
to go over the edge. Right, Paul begins writing analysis
of Mirna's hypnotic regression regression sessions replete with lines like
the alien does all caps kill with the beam, generally
kill with a beam?
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, where bodies? Where bodies?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Okay, Paul, Now the reality is that Hanson had just
brought up a bunch of existent UFO lore during her sessions. Right,
she complained about missing time, She described being picked up
in a tractor beam. She claimed an alien crewman had
brandished a silver knife before cutting into a cow's chest,
and she eventually described being taken to an underground base
(26:51):
where a metallic device was put inside her brain. Now,
this is part of why there's some theorizing that like
maybe she was a plant. Is This is when, and
Paul is the guy who really does more than anyone
to start this. This is when you start getting these
these UFO conspiracies about underground bases. And they're usually either
like bases that are our military shares with the aliens,
(27:14):
or maybe the aliens run the base. You know, there's
some stories about them having fights with the army and whatnot.
And these bases underground. But the real thing behind this
is that a bunch of people in Albuquerque had watched
and like this is something that Paul would have seen
from his house as the Air Force dug this massive
underground nuclear storage space, like the largest weapons underground weapons
(27:38):
storage base ever or at least at that point in time.
And so people are like wondering, what's this really for?
And the answer is pretty evil, Like it's for nukes.
But yeah, nukes, Yeah, they There's a lot of theories
as to why so. Hanson also claimed Perbinowitz that she
had picked up an STD described as a vaginal disease
(28:00):
like strepto coxy bacillas from the aliens. Paul wrote to
his colleagues at the Volunteer Alien Hunting Group that quote,
we are trying to culture it, no luck as yet. Also,
it has evaded all of our known antibiotics with penicillin.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Damn, nobody's doing sex at on these aliens. That's the problem.
I got to learn to wrap it up what it is.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
You got to wrap it up, though, Paul, you are
an electrical engineer. I don't think that you are qualified
to say that it's an unlike it can't be like
it's it's a it's got to be an alien STD.
Maybe it's a normal one. Maybe it's just a normal one.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah, you're not.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
A doctor, Paul. You should first off, you should be
given this late antibiotics. Paul, you're you're not a doctor,
You're really so. He also revealed that MYRNA was being
quote badly beaten on by the alien with their beams
twenty four hours a day, and once Murna starts talking
to him about how she's just constantly being beam attacked,
(28:59):
Paul starts to believe that he too is being beaten
on with beams, and he urges his colleagues, who plan
to do regression work, to lock themselves in a car
in a garage coated with three layers of aluminum foil
to protect themselves from the beams. He's doing well, is
what you say. At this point. He's doing great, our boy, Paul,
(29:19):
very very healthy and making rational choices.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Fall You've fallen so far. You were doing so good, buddy.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So Dody is occasionally checking in with Paul, but he's
also spending the intervening months, you know, seventy nine early
nineteen eighty working on another Mark. And this guy is
a journalist or a quote unquote journalist, depending on how
you see it, with a reputation for he is considered
to be one of the more rigorous guys within the
UFO community. By the UFO community. Take of that what
(29:51):
you will. His name is George Moore, at least that's
how he's described in Project Beta. But also the author
Project Beta really likes this guy, like impressed by him.
So I don't feel the same way about more Go.
Rightley's narrative makes him out to be like less more
of like one of an interchangeable number of UFO kind
(30:12):
of weirdos, although one who is you know, reached out
to by the government to spread dis info and more
claims that like he's down with this, right. And the
reason we're talking about him is that he is the
co author of that book, that first big book that
gets like UFOs back in vogue. Right, he's interviewing that
(30:33):
guy from Roswell. He's one of the guys who helps
make Roswell into like the thing that it is in
our culture. Right, He's written a bunch of other stuff.
You know, he's a very influential figure within this field.
And that inspires Dody and a colleague to approach him.
In July of nineteen eighty, Jim Lorenzen of APRO receives
(30:55):
a letter with no return address claiming to tell the
story of an eighteen year old Civil Air Porce troll
member who had cited a UFO and then been threatened
by a man in black named mister Huck. The young
man had reported this to a mister Dobie at AFOCI, right,
that's the Air Force, that's Dodie's agency. So Lawrence gets
(31:16):
this letter and he thinks it's weird, and he sends
it to Bill Mitchell, who's the best journalist he knows,
and or Bill Moore, who's the best journalist he knows.
And Moore is immediately is like, oh, this is bullshit,
and he knows it because he does some actual journalism.
Like he reaches out to the named witness and then
witnesses like, well, yeah, I saw some like weird lights,
but I never was I was never threatened by a
man in black, Like none of the rest of this
(31:38):
is real.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Man. The tiniest amount of journalism.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, it really, that's all.
Speaker 7 (31:44):
It takes a lot of Yeah, I just double check.
This'll literally just ask this guy if this happened. The
letter was actually the creation of Dodie and his colleagues
at AFOSI. They were hoping to rope in somebody like
Bill Right, somebody smart enough to have credibility in the subculture,
but also who might fall for a fake Right. They
(32:05):
didn't succeed in tricking him, but they continued fishing. In
September of nineteen eighty, More finished a blockbuster book, The
Roswell Incident, which is, Yeah, that's one of the things
that we exnites public entrants.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah. Yeah, So military intelligence gets very interested after this point,
and while he's doing his book tour, he keeps getting
calls at radio stations where like guys will be like, hey,
do you want to have a meeting? You know, I'm
from a government intel agency and I'd like to talk,
and he is. He eventually agrees, and he's met by
a man who dresses and acts very much like a
(32:37):
spy in the movie. Now, my opinion on what's happening
here is that there's some two way feedback. More desperately
wants to be a journalist working on classified fringe like
X files kind of stories, right, and he wants to
feel like he's part of this great game of spies
and spooks. Now the spooks he's talking to, these are
(32:58):
real spies, but they're not the high level operators working
to unearth, you know, Russian nuclear secrets or doing the
fucking cool shit that they make movies about. There are
some enlisted guys at the Air Force, mostly tasked with
lying to Rubes to cover up flight testing, right, and
they here's the thing, this is like a two way
street because they also want to feel like they're doing
(33:19):
cool spy shit, right, and so Doty and George more
part of what they're both doing because they're both much
more rational than Paul's. At this point, they're kind of
LARPing together in my opinion. You know, they're kind of like, well, Dody,
I get to play like I'm this very serious man
in black, and More is like, and I get to
play like I'm fucking Fox Molder almost right, you know,
the shows in the air at this point. But that's
(33:41):
what they're both getting here, right, and More is offered
a deal by Doty and a colleague help us out
with some odd jobs. Right, we need some like deniable
work that you can do and will pass you some
classified UFO information, right, Oh, I see, ye got it.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Yeah, that's how that yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
The first dossier that Dodi and his friend hand over
is bullshit. Like George again to some minor reporting and
is able to figure this out from Bishop's book quote.
After a few preliminaries, the question started, well, what did
you discover? More threw the paper down on the table, and,
trying to sound less annoyed than he actually was, replied,
this whole mess is a lie. None of these people exist.
The agent and Doti looked at each other and smiled,
(34:21):
what's going on? Asked More, you passed the test, said
the man, whom he would eventually refer to with the
code name Falcon. Within a few years, More and his
colleagues would begin to assign code names to their growing
coterie of contacts so they could talk freely about developments
without fear of identification if they were overheard. And you know,
maybe this was a test. I think it's like there
(34:42):
that they were like, okay, so he figured out this
is bullshit. Let's just tell him that that was a test,
and then, you know, stroke his ego. It helped believe
the next thing we say maybe right.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're we're in good yeap.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
We're finding from our side until we actually make him
a believer, and he'll feel great because he's passed all
these tests. So he's right, gonna start looking less and
less because of how smart he believes he is.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Right, and they hand him some shit and he'll admit, Like,
I knew some of what I was putting out into
the UFO community was bunked, but I think some of
it's real too, And like he's you know, he's being
a shady character here as well. Now. Unlike Paul Benowitz,
George is a pretty I think a mentally resilient guy.
(35:23):
Like he definitely is a believer to some extent, but
I think he also I don't think he it takes
it as seriously as Paul does. Right. I don't think
this is breaking his brain. I think he's having a
good time.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
My favorite story from More is that Dody and his
partner apparently thought More might be gay and decided to
test him by like one day when they're hanging out,
they like park the car and more It's like and
a bunch of men start walking past the car wearing
tight pants or high heels and dresses that like fit
really weird and like it doesn't seem like they would
(35:59):
like a comfortable in And apparently this is a test
because they want him to troll the gay bars of
Santa Monica looking for a guy that the FOC wants
for some reason.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh my god, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
It was a slow day in the office when they
came up with right, well, there's like, ah, well, we
want to do something this weekend, right, all right.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
So Dody and his colleagues they get some of what
they want out of more. Right, he launders some info
into the UFO community, some of the dis info they
want to distract from their real programs. But he's also
not he's a little too smart, right, He's not willing
to destroy himself publicly as much as was necessary for
the kind of misinformation that they wanted to get out.
(36:39):
And this is where Paul Benowitz re enters the story.
It is obvious by eighty eighty one that this is
a guy who was not well, but also he's respected,
and he is a guy who, because of his tech acumen,
might endanger some top secret operations. So the decision was
basically made. It let's suck him up a little, right.
Paul gets invited to give a speech at Kirtland and
(37:00):
most of the attendees leave before he's done, but like
one of them is like, uh, it's really interesting stuff, Paul,
and that just lights his ego on fire. Paul so
happy to hear this. He applies for air Force grants,
which he does not receive, but he apparently gets an
NSSA grant, and I think that's maybe the NSA fucking
(37:21):
with him, because some real fuckery is about to happen here.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Hey, I love an ironic grant.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Ironic grant money still spends.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
It's a little more messed up than even that. So
Dody is now spending hours with Paul Benowitz, and he
claims that they became friends and that he found the
orders he received to spread lies to Paul personally distasteful.
If you watch the documentary Mirage Man, you'll see a
lot of Dody, and he does express a degree of
what kind of feels like real regret over what he
(37:52):
did to Paul. He is also a spy and a
professional liar, so I don't know that I believe he's
really or he just knows that he needs to perform regret, right,
I think that's probably likely. Yeah, So god, what do you.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Think like the like the internal notes of a person
that it constantly lies are like, is it just like
a notebook? Is it like a series of post it's
around their house? How do you keep that shit straight?
It sounds exhausting?
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I don't you know. One of the things that you
get when you like read these stories and like the
way in which a lot of the writers and quote
unquote journalists who cover this stuff, the degree of credulity
they have to these guys stories. The thing that becomes
clue to me is like, oh, this is your first
time being lied to by a weirdo in the desert,
(38:39):
Like I spent a lot of my childhood and like, oh,
not childhood, my young adulthood and like off grid places
just listening to like lies from dudes at bars and stuff.
I've heard a lot of crazy stories that definitely aren't true,
and that's a ton of fun. But I think some
of these these people just like decide they want to
live as if that's real. You know that's fair? Yeah? God?
Speaker 1 (39:03):
How many times? How many time shares do you think
they own?
Speaker 2 (39:05):
It feels like, oh, my god, these guys are these
guys are very very vulnerable to time shares. So on
some of his early visits to hang with Paul, he's
shown a complex computer system doty is that Benowitz had
constructed and had his employees help him build to translate
these encrypted messages. Right, it's unclear what's actually happening. Is
(39:29):
he just getting random static and then like running it
through an algorithm to like create text based on that,
and then kind of going through it almost like it's
one of those like word puzzles and just like picking
up words out of a feed of words that like
and then saying like, oh, this is you know, a
message from the aliens, right, because some people will say,
(39:50):
like it looked like gibberish to me, but he would
pull out, you know, five or six words from this
like paragraph of nonsense and say like this is the
real message, right, Yeah, And this is a quote from Dodie.
Benowitz had the computer rigged up to antenna's on his
roof that included a small microwave dish, and he would
look at the screen and there would be images on
the screen that certainly wasn't an alien. But he was
(40:12):
convinced that it was. I would actually tell him I
don't see anything, and he said, I see it, and
I can hear them. And he had these earphones that
he would put on and he said, I can hear
them talking. And I asked, Paul, what language are they speaking?
He said, they're speaking their language. And he wrote one
hundred page document about the alien language. When he went
out to Kirtland to give his presentation to all these generals,
he presented them with that information. So the NSA, and
(40:35):
this is probably where the NSA gets heavily involved and
maybe why they give him that grant, because a plan
gets hatched to gift Paul with a new computer right
that he's told is a gift from a FOC. Some
accounts maybe Doty offered him the machine. Other the story
we'll hear more often is that an Air Force consultant
(40:57):
named doctor j Allen Heinek, who's a former scientific advisor
for Project Blue Book and a big guy in the
alien community. Now I think he denies this, but you'll
hear that too. We don't really know exactly what happened here,
because I've also heard like the NSA did it. I've
heard that the Air Force did it. I don't know.
Adam go Writely notes this computer had been provided at
(41:19):
the behest of the US Air Force, and embedded in
the software was a code that generated an alien language.
With the aid of the Air Force computer, Benowitz claimed
he established constant direct communications with the alien using a
form of hex decimal code with graphics and print out. Now, man,
so what's happening here? Probably is that because some versions
(41:42):
of the story say that the NSA was literally set
up across the street in a rented house, sending messages
directly to Paul's computer, I think it's maybe a little
less direct than that. But basically, he's got this machine
that's probably programmed to allow them to send him fake
messages from aliens, and so he starts getting messages like
this ground Ground, Women of Earth are needed, flexible. The
(42:05):
next just charges our ship. Women do not command the
north among us. You have many friends, water very short,
resist all attempts at alteration. Listen, Orange, make peace. And
Paul doesn't know what to make of this. He becomes convinced,
actually that this is the aliens trying to trick him
into thinking that they're peaceful, but he knows they're really dangerous.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
He's so close. He's getting there.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, he's getting there. Yeah. Greg Valdez, whose Gabe's son,
visited Minowitz during this period and he described seeing the
computer in use. He would type a question into the
computer into in a very complex for the time period
form of a computer program, much like a current email.
Much whoever went surprised he would get an answer to
the questions he was asking. Sometimes he would get an
(42:46):
immediate response, and sometimes it would take several minutes. He
would even receive very crude and basic pictures or graphics
on his computer of these aliens. Some of these pictures
resembled birds with reptile features, and some resembled reptiles with
bird features. During this question and answer session, Gabe instructed
Paul to ask the simple question where are you from?
Paul already knew the answer to the question because he
(43:06):
had already asked the question, and he answered it verbally.
When a response came back on the computer, it simply
said the zeta reticulized star system. So they're now really
fucking with this guy in a way that's very irresponsible.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
I mean, who I want to know who was writing
this stuff, because that's the best job on the base.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
That's right, maybe, Doty, it's probably a team of guy's right, Dody.
There's there's, you know, some evidence he was working with
the NSA, So maybe it's multiple. It's almost certainly multiple
people feeding him bullshit. Yeah, but yeah, the result is
that Paul grows convinced that the US government has signed
a treaty with aliens, perhaps to breed some sort of hybrids,
(43:48):
and they've been given real estate in an underground base
near Dulce, New Mexico. This paid played the happy dual
role of covering up ongoing weird experiments around Dulce. You know,
there's that poison gas fucking hole, and diverting the attention
of Paul and others away from Kirtland Air Force Base
and towards somewhere less harmful, right for theirin Yeah you know.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Now, during his communications with the ETS, Paul became convinced
that there was a secret war going on. Dozens of
base security and Dulce had been murdered by the aliens
and a gunfight. He wrote up plans to lay siege
to Dulce Base and began working to develop a sort
of beam weapon that could kill aliens.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Now, oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yeah, now we're making beam weapons. How about it?
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Oh yeah, he was like, I better hope the aliens
don't have aluminum foil.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Listen, folks, if you if you have a friend who's
making beam weapons to fight the underground aliens. I actually
don't know how you should handle that situation, but probably
don't give him a computer that lies to him.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
I think you got to sign him up for bowling
league or something.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
I get him.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, let's get some more.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Social tapping maybe, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
That social schedule a little bit, you know, and see if.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
He wants to play D and D. Maybe his imagination
needs a little bit of a workout, you know, that.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Would be great.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, Now I have a lot of This sounds
like the overarching conspiracy plot for the first like five
seasons of the X Files. That's because this is almost
certainly the direct inspiration for a lot of the X Files, right, Like,
this is, in fact, because this is all happening in
the eighties, not long before the X File starts, right. Yeah,
So Benowitz, as he's communicating with these aliens, he's gathering
(45:30):
information on this secret underground bass and this war he
believes is going on underneath everyone's noses. He's sending back everything.
He's getting the special agent, Dody, his good friend, and
Dody dutifully forwards this up the chain and encourages Paul.
Keep digging. You know, you're getting close. He's doing the
deep throat thing, right. He's like, yeah, keep gigging, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Yeah, yeah, so close, you're going to get there.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah. Yeah. He's telling him that the aliens at Dulce
Base had been responsible for what he'd seen over Kirtland.
And he does this because he's like, oh yeah, man,
you know what, I ran it up the flagpole and
those that underground base. That's why you were seeing those
weird lights. Don't look near the air Force base. Keep
hanging out around Dulce, you know, that's where the shit's
(46:14):
going on, right, yeah, go rightly claims. The ultimate intent
of stringing Benowitz along, according to researchers like Greg Bishop
and Christian Lambright, was to shift Benowitz's attention away from
Kirkland to a remote area like the Archuleta Mesa your Dulce,
where AFOSI could ramp up their disinformation operation and more
easily stage UFO events. Speaking of stage, you know, what's
(46:39):
not staged is the reliability of our sponsors. That's completely legitimate.
You know, don't even question it, don't think about it.
Hand over your credit card information, text it to me,
I'll buy stuff for you, and we're back. Okay. So,
(47:02):
near the end of nineteen eighty one, Richard Dody convinces
his superiors to let him take Paul in a special
helicopter flight around the Archuleta Mesa since Paul is a pilot,
and they see some stuff. You know, there's some and
apparently Dodi claims that he and other agents put out
props right to look like air vins for the secret
underground base and other evidence. Right, this is so crazy.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
And now there's an art director. Yeah, yeah, there's an
art director.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Production production.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
There's production meetings about like what to do to this
poor man, Like.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah, they're having pitches and stuff yellow pitch meetings on
fucking with this guy. There's a there's a prop team now, yes,
oh no, so because Paul's a pilot. After this first trip,
he follows this by doing his own recon flights over
the area, and he gets very obsessed with this, and
I have some questions. I don't know if I believe
(47:55):
Dody entirely that like he's being handed all of the
men in equipment necess to carry out a staged operation
on the scale he describes. But also it's possible and
in fact, maybe likely, Paul is sometimes seeing some real stuff,
Like he reports seeing what he describes as a crashed
Delta wing aircraft and in this area at this time,
(48:19):
they're working on prototypes of the Stealth Bomber, which is
a looks like that, and in fact Greg Bishop's project Beta,
Like that's his basic conclusion is that like Paul might
have seen like some of the testing stages of the
prototype of like the stealth bomber, right, and maybe that
was like part of what Dodie was doing was if
(48:39):
we get this guy to talk about if we show
if we let this guy see a little bit of
the real stealth bomber program but convince them it's aliens,
then anybody who's talking about like a Delta wing aircraft,
right will be like, oh, you're just talking about a UFO,
not this actual thing that we're working on.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Right, Yeah, exactly, Let's get everybody off the scent once again.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
So maybe that's what's happening, or maybe it was just
an easy thing to make look like a plane from
the air shit like this. They do this in World
War Two. A bunch we do it, and actually the
Nazis do it too, where you're like make basically fake
out of like wooden shit and spray paint tanks and
stuff so people think there's an army where it isn't right,
so oh it's not.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah yeah, or I'm from in Maryland.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
There's a fake cop car on, like one on the highway.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah, is up just to slow you down?
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Yeah, I love that shit. Now. There are other claims
about what happened to Paul and his wife during this
period that are more questionable. One rite up I found
by the Cyberthetic project claims that Paul and his wife
developed red sores or perhaps some sort of rashes on
their body. I've seen that a few times. The cyber
(49:47):
Athetic Project describes itself as a token project with a
mission to unite holder so that they can communicate in
an open forum on the blockchain without fear of being
judged or censored. So you'd be right about questioning it.
As a source that said, this is all a lot
of fun. So I'm going to quote from it anyway,
just you know, a lot of salt here. It has
since been revealed that the NSA was in possession of
sensitive documents concerning advanced technologies such as active denial systems
(50:11):
and active denial technology. These technologies were apparently being developed
by Sandia Labs and Kirk Glenn Air Force Base with
the aim of producing a non lethal weapon that could
be used against enemies. Were they using this technology on
the Benowitz family? The answer to that is also unclear.
What is clear is that Paul and his wife were
being physically impacted by his research into UFOs, And that's
(50:32):
maybe not like I don't I think probably likelier than
some sort of weird beam weapon is that Paul is
losing his mind and he and his wife are both
very stressed out by this, yeah, and convinced that they're
being targeted by aliens, and they have like shingles, a
stress rash, something like all sorts of shit, you know.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
Oh yeah, it feels like they probably would have broken
out in some sort of like, yeah, stress rash of
some kind, like, yes, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
I have several friends from the California fires.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
That had them a week go right, right, Imagine prolonged
experience to potential aliens for years.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Yeah, you have to right, I don't think that that's
it's at all unlikely that something like that is the
case here. And yeah, So as he grew more obsessed
with seeking out the truth, Paul's business declined, which is
another reason why maybe he's dealing with some stress related problems.
Ninety more office manager. Oh my god, I just need
(51:26):
you just sign Paul. We just really need to make
this censor man, could we? Okay, you've got the whole
team working on translating alien speech. All right, well, I'm
going to maybe print down some resumes.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
In nineteen seventy eight, Thunder Scientific had thirty employees. By
nineteen eighty one that the number was down by almost half.
There were He starts hiding like guns and knives around
his home as the nineteen eighties wore on, because he's
just incredibly paranoid now, and he continues to attend UFO
events throughout the mid to late nineteen eighties. His yarn
about dulc, a base which was almost certainly invented or
(52:02):
at least heavily egged on by Richard Dodi, had been
a magnificent success. In nineteen eighty seven, John Lear, a
prominent ufologist, stated that he had independently confirmed elements of
Benowitz's story right that there's this underground base at a Dulce.
Several books in the late nineteen eighties published their own
(52:23):
variants of the story, which helped to spark a paranoid
belief and secret underground alien bases that is still a
significant part of qan on today. Like a lot of
QAnon guys believe that there's a base under the Getty
and Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
That's why I didn't barn.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
That's why I didn't burn. They kept it safe. That's
where they keep the kids. Ye center Villa. I think
it's the center either way, do a pizza gate at
both places? Sophy, You know what, No, that didn't end
well for that guy. There's a lot that's sad about this.
But one of the worst things is that Paul had
almost certainly stumbled upon a very real and y reimportant
(53:00):
conspiracy at Kirtland see today. Kirtland Air Force Base is
a major testing site for advanced drone technology, including weapons,
systems to defeat drone swarms, and other experimental tech. We
know that in nineteen eighty a black mystery vehicle was
spotted at the base. This is right around the same
time Paul is making his initial reports. So he's going
to show you a picture of this mystery vehicle that
(53:22):
is being tested at Kirkland Air Force Base when Paul
is observing shit, right, it looks kind of like an
SR seventy one, but it's like a drone version almost.
This was apparently what now we know this was called
at the time td a tdux toe target. A right
up in the war zone describes it as a high
(53:42):
speed towed aerial target to support the testing of infrared
and electronic countermeasures or IRCM and ECM, respectively. Something like
this would both look very weird in the sky and
also might put off some of the signals that Paul was,
you know, receiving right now. I don't know if this
is what he saw was other stuff, because other shit
(54:04):
is being tested at Kirtland, including precursors to our modern
drone program. Right, Paul very likely came across evidence of
the development of unmanned weapons systems that have gone on
to kill huge numbers of people. No aliens need to
be involved at all, for this to both make sense
and be a real conspiracy theory. It's also very likely
Duty wasn't fully in the loop as to what was
(54:25):
being developed there, because he wouldn't need to be, and
in fact, the more he believed the bullshit he was
pushing on Paul, the safer the real secrets were. In
nineteen eighty eight, Yep, yep, cool stuff. The drone program.
It always comes back to that.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
Hooray, so exciting. But they make pretty firework alternatives.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
It's fine, it's all good stuff. Yeah, don't worry. If
they can inform Steve Harvey in the sky.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Yeah they can see. It's fine. They should have done that.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
That what the aliens love. Steve Harvey.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
Paul Benowitz went to the Air Force. I keep seeing
Steve Harvey's face in the night sky. I don't know
what's going on. In nineteen eighty eight, Paul published plans
for an assault on Dulce Base, which he'd become convinced
was the nexus of an alien plan to control the world.
That same year, he became convinced that his wife was
working with the aliens, or perhaps in control of the
(55:22):
entire alien conspiracy. Correctly, wife, Yeah, she's really putting she's
really going through it here and in this passage from
go Wrightley's book, which is based on interviews with Bill
Moore and Richard Dody, he describes a profoundly ill man.
Both Bill Moore and Richard Dody, on separate occasions, witnessed
first hand Benowitz's mounting paranoia, describing him as spun out
(55:45):
and barricaded inside his homes, chainsmoking cigarettes, waiting in fevered
anticipation for the final et showdown. In Project Beta, Greg
Bishop recounted Benowitz told More that after the aliens injected him,
they would make him drive his car into the desert
in the middle of the night. He couldn't remember what
he did after he got there. Around this time, Benowitz's
family committed him to a mental health facility for nervous exhaustion.
(56:08):
Oh man, you will sometimes hear it arrantly stated that
he commits suicide as a result of this. He does not.
This thankfully doesn't have as sad a story as it might.
Paul gets out after about a month, and he seems
to have pulled himself out of the UFO community. After
this point, he and his wife stay together. They're married
(56:28):
more than fifty years and he lives until two thousand
and three, so you know, kind of a happy ending.
But boy, it didn't it almost wasn't.
Speaker 3 (56:40):
Yeah, for real, man, I also shout out to the
place he was committed.
Speaker 1 (56:46):
Apparently they did the job. Yeah, that's a serious deprogramming man.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
You gotta stop, you gotta stop. In the computer the
NSA gave you.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
Yeah, a computer man.
Speaker 3 (56:59):
Man some four door just cracked all over their knuckles
and he said, all right, let's get into.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
It, Paul. We need to have a long conversation about
things that are real and things that aren't.
Speaker 5 (57:09):
So.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
Richard Dody would eventually retire from the Air Force and
spend much of his retirement and golden years doing the
UFO convention circuit he came. He will say that he
was hired to consult on two seasons of The X Files,
and that he wrote the screenplay for an episode. He's
not credited as the writer for that episode, but you know,
(57:30):
his stuff definitely helps inspire the X Files, right like
he is, he is for sure involved in what becomes
the X Files purely because of like his role in
UFO culture.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
I'm sure he wrote a script, but.
Speaker 2 (57:44):
Yeah, I'm sure he wrote a script.
Speaker 3 (57:45):
Yeah, a lot of people have written scripts, and he is.
Speaker 2 (57:50):
He's a member of a couple of different organizations. Now,
he's a very controversial figure within the UFO community because
he both definitely worked for Air Force Intelligence and tells
a lot of stories about seeing aliens. He claims you
have literally seen them, and also admits that he lied
about aliens for years to a guy who nearly lost
(58:11):
his mind forever. I wouldn't trust him. But for an
idea of how Richard Dorty presents himself, now, here's a
clip from him on the New Realities YouTube channel being
interviewed by a UFO ology author named Ellen Steinfield.
Speaker 6 (58:27):
I mean, you're no longer working for the Air Force Intelligence, right.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
But right, that's right.
Speaker 5 (58:34):
I don't work for Air Force Intelligence.
Speaker 6 (58:38):
Well, don't be offended by this question. But how do
we know you're still not working for them? And you're
just saying you're not working for them.
Speaker 5 (58:46):
Well, there's a lot of controversy over that. But number one,
I wouldn't have any reason to I'm I left the agency,
left the intelligence agency back in nineteen eighty. Although I
people bring up the fact that I was brought back
to active service in ninety one and ninety three. But
(59:07):
that had nothing to do with UFOs or disinformation. It
had to do with what I did in Europe when
after the Wall fell. So I work as a private investigator.
I have no connections official connections with the United States
government or intelligence community. I do have a lot of
(59:29):
friends that still work within the intelligence community, and they
feed me a lot of information that I share with you.
I mean I shared it with you at the UFO MegaCon.
Speaker 2 (59:41):
Yeah. So yeah, I mean I think he's still and
they I even found an interview where he's like talked about,
like he's asked about, like because Tom DeLong of Blink
one eighty two is a big guy and is involved
with Dotie in one of the organizations he's in, and
one of the interviews is like, are you doing a
Paul Benowitz to Tom DeLong. He's like, A, of course not.
I would never.
Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
I absolutely would never.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
I think he might be doing a Paul Benowitz on
a couple of guys. Maybe that's just fun for him. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
It reminds me of what's the.
Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
Uh in the Tanya Hardy in the Assault of Nancy
Kerrigan Hardy. Yeah, yeah, Galuuly and yeah, yeah, yeah, idiot friend,
the amount bullshit that they just believe about themselves and
talking about like yeah, like the other guy Eckert, he
like talked about how he like was a Special Forces
(01:00:36):
guy and had all this ship made.
Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
You're like, damn you believe this though.
Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
I've heard so many fun lies about being Special Forces
from dudes, like especially out in like the mountains, Like
every old man you meet who like will tell you
about all of the crazy shit he did in Vietnam,
and it's it's just always it's always nonsense, Like, yeah,
I know a guy we're in the little mountaintown where
(01:01:01):
I used to live who was a Seal team member
during Vietnam, and his reaction is very different, which was
like he handed me a book that was written about
like him and his colleagues and was like, you want
to know anything, just read that. I don't like talking
about it.
Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
Yeah, if you've actually done any of this stuff, like
it's it's not what it's it's not the movies.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
But it's kind of a bad time.
Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Yeah, I have a lot to answer.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
For and process didn't like it. Not not happy with
how that all went.
Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
No, No, not worth the free beer to talk about
Joe really.
Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
No, Yeah, anyway, well that's the aliens or not. But
maybe there's aliens. I don't know. This is not conclusive
on that matter one way or the other. But there's
definitely a bunch of spy agencies who will light to
you and destroy your brain if they think it will
help them hide the fact that they're making some fucked
(01:01:56):
up shit to kill people in other countries.
Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
Of course, maybe the alien is inside of you, listener.
The entire time, the.
Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Real alien was always the military industrial complex.
Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
Yeah, exactly, because you know, to find what an alien is,
it's something that works against like the good of humanity.
Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Then in that case, the government is run by aliens.
Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
I don't know who knows, who knows what's out there
or in here?
Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Apparently?
Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
Yeah, but what is out there and what is in here?
Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Are your pluggables? Brandy Bam what transition? Thanks Sophie. Yeah
you can.
Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
You can find me online at Brand Dazzle on all
of the platforms, including the new ones and the old ones.
Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
My podcast is called Lady.
Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
The Lady comes out every Wednesday and has been around
for thirteen years. Burn this Record is my comedy label
that I run where I put out amazing comedy albums
and people all over the country that are.
Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Very funny and also good people.
Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
And then I have my own album coming out on
that label at the in the middle of.
Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
March, and I would love for you to buy it.
That'd be amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Yeah, Brandy Posey dot com has all the information for
all of the things. But yeah, come say hi. I
if you're a fan of the show, you like me,
I promise, so come on, all.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Right, everybody, Well that's the episode until next time again, folks,
I say this every time. Head to Kurtland air Force Face.
Get a camera out and just start filming and go
slowly insane, get a pilot's license, fly over some random
you know, just just do some shit. You know, why not?
Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Nothing bad could happen.
Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Let's go into hell in a handbasket. You might as
well lose your mind about some alien shit.
Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
If you want to test your relationship, go down an
alien hole.
Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
See if your wife really loves you. You know, this
is the only way to know. It's the only way
to know.
Speaker 8 (01:04:03):
Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia
dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
You get your podcasts.
Speaker 8 (01:04:15):
Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes
every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot
com slash at Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards News
Host
Robert Evans
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