December 18, 2024 • 54 mins
Robert and Wil discuss the east coast / west coast rap war that Diddy helped orchestrate, as well as just, an awful lot of sex crimes.
Sean 'Diddy' Combs: What's a 'freak off', and what are the charges against him?
The ‘Freak-Offs’ at the Core of Sean ‘Diddy’ Combs’s Troubles: Drugs, Sex, Baby Oil - The New York Times
https://www.miamiherald.com/miami-com/miami-com-news/article295553889.html#storylink=cpy
Diddy's White Parties Were Wild — Check out the Photos
'I believe I was sexually assaulted at P. Diddy's party after winning tickets on a radio show'
We should've known about Diddy: A history of violence | Salon.com
Before he was Diddy: Covering Sean Combs’s first scandal - Columbia Journalism Review
Music Executive Recounts Day of Altercation With Rapper Combs - Los Angeles Times
The epic rise and fall of Sean ‘Diddy’ Combs | The Independent
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
A media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh here, ye, hear ye. The Court of Bastards is
now in session, the Honorable Judge Robert Evans presiding. And
that's not a bit. I'm making an announcement here. Well,
I don't think I told you this yet. I have
been sworn in as a judge. I am legally a
(00:25):
United States municipal judge for the state of New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
This is not this is it's not a bit, and
he's brought it up.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I think he's told me this same same piece of
information five pounds.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I have the paperwork. I am now legally the Honorable
Robert Evans. For the rest of my life. I can
marry people, not just officiate like some of you folks.
I can witness documents, I could hear cases. I don't
think anyone's gonna give me any but I am a
judge now in New Mexico. And uh, you know.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
How how does one become a judge in New Mexico?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
You get sworn in by another judge. It works. Actually,
I'm just like.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
How did you do you? Just you had to like
call them and was there an online app.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Let's let's call them a fan. I mean, definitely they
are a fan, a wonderful person whose name and.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
They were like, hey, bro, did you know that it's
no work to become a judge?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
You know it's incredibly easy. Well, it's apparently I didn't
know this either. Becoming a judge works exactly like being
a vampire and interview with a vampire.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Come in.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
If somebody invite you more than you get, you can
get made a judge by like a bigger judge. But
you cannot necessarily make other people judges.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
You have to see you have to drink a certain
amount of blood.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yeah, yeah, you got to keep the pyramid at a
you know, a certain angle or else it gets too wide.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Again, if if I'm remembering interview with a vampire, right,
I am now going to live in France and then
burn down a theater.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Take on an eight year old child as you.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Take on an eight year old Ye?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Do the whole reare with that was? I'm very confused
still about what she was in that movie.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
You gotta try the new TV show will It's It's wonderful?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Oh is it? I? I kind of I saw that
it existed, but I kind of put it in the
same like, you know, when they made the Archie comic
into it. Yeah, Drama Dale. I kind of so, I
kind of assumed it was something like that where they
just like or like The Fresh Prince, they turned that
into a fucking drama or whatever. It was like something
(02:28):
like that where it was just like real teeny like
as a Buffy the Vampire type show.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
No, I can confidently say as a United States judge
that show is good. I do that power. I'm gonna
go do a Blood Meridian after this. Call me the
Judge used my own urine to make gunpowder. It's gonna
be incredible, folks, amazing. But my first act as judge
is to sit down with my buddy, the Grammy Award
(02:54):
winning Greasy Will and Judge P Diddy, and this will
be legally binding whatever I say, the courts have to do.
If I understand being a judge right, and I don't
think I do.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Can I be the middle of the defense and the prosecutor,
Like I don't know, I want to be both? Can
I be both?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah? You could absolutely be both?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, whatever's fun A kind of a moment.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
A guest of behind the Bastard's like primary responsibility is
to be a bit of both of these things like
cheering you on for your incredible journalistic integrity and also
correcting your pronunciation.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Words Jeordia ash I honestly forget what we were saying.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
See, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, not my job as a judge to know how
to pronounce R and B Duo Jordia Cage, Jordia Jeordia Jordan.
You know what, I sentence you to come up with
a different fucking name. I'm glad this intro was fun
because what we're going to talk about after this cold
open not fun at all. We're back and things are
(03:56):
about to get horrible. So nineteen ninety one, the same
year that he got all of those fucking people killed,
is the year in which Joy j o I Dickerson Neil,
one of those hyphenated last names, claims that Sean drugged
and raped her. Yes, yeah, I know, sorry, there was
there was no way to learn out swing. That's why
(04:17):
I opened something fun. Yeah, because it's gonna get It's
just it's I mean, this is gonna be horrible, folks.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Sorry, what year was this?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Ninety one, same year he got nine people killed in
a crush, So this is the earliest. I don't know
that This is the first person that John drugs and
assaults or assault period. But this is the earliest allegation
so far against Diddy that may have changed by the
time these episodes dropped. It is coming out rapidly every day.
It is one of the most serious. She was a
college student at the time. Sean was an up and
(04:48):
coming music producer who hosted legendary parties. He put her
in one of his music videos and then while they
were doing that, he asked her out on a date,
which is you know, classic story.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Classic story. Yeah, this is why the yeah prototype exists.
This is why people know that this is a thing. Yeah,
it's just the classic producers story.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And it's it's fucked up because like obviously this is
the way a lot of people get assaulted. It is
also legitimately how a lot of people's careers begin. Yeah,
you know, like and honestly, sometimes both happen, right, Like
that's yes, which is why it's going to keep happening.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
The story is exactly that. It's literally, let me assault
you and you get a career.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
You can get in this fucking you know, I.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Mean, it's you know, and as this progresses on, we're
going to see a lot of that where it's like
people who go along with it make it, and when
they stop going along with it, they disappear.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Right right, yes, yes, you know. So after dinner, Sean
pushes Joy to stay out with him. She wants to
go home, and he's like, no, no, no, let's go, and
he takes you to a recording studio. She has a
drink at some point, I think, on the drive over,
and she like can't get out of the car because
she's so fucked up by the time they get there,
not from the drink, but from the fact that the
drink has been drug. Obviously drug, I'm guessing just from
(06:01):
her description, sounds like GHB, but could have been a
couple of things.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Pretty fast acting. Yes, yes, in a car drive across
the Yeah, that's that's not.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
A long Nope, nope, nope. Combs takes her to a
separate location and he sexually assaults her. He films the rape.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Naturally, because why not keep evidence.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Why not keep that? Well, he films that he uses
like revenge porn against her, right.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Oh yeah, so this is like this is where he
starts to get into this.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
The black man is doing this from the jump, Yeah, yeah, Epstein,
if you will, Yeah, exactly, And Dickerson actually finds out
that he's videotaped it because a male friend of hers
comes to her and is like, hey, man, I was
just hanging out with Sean and he showed us a
video of himself having sex with you and like you
don't really look like you're conscious, right, So that's how
(06:47):
she finds out about it. Like he shares he shows
this to a number of people.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
That is just fucking awful.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
It's hideous and it's one of those things.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Wait, so wait, so this is ninety one, right, ninety one?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, what what do you have?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
It?
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Was it a camp quarder?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
He had like a camp It must have been like
a camp quorder Yeah, like that, it was.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Not like it was it hidden situation or because there's
like there's like an element of like decisions that he
had to make, like he had to set this up
and plan this, like this wasn't you know, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
He had to set this up. He played the plan this.
He spent a lot of money, like it's not cheap
dead right Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, camera in ninety one was very expective. You weren't
just buying one cheese.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
That's probably a big part of an addition just wanted
to do in the first place. Why she's drugged, right,
is so that he can set up and do all this, you.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Know, right. Yeah, it's not an easy process to use.
It's not like now you just push a button or
whatever on your phone. You gotta set this, get lighting
and shit like. It's like camp quorders were not just like.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Just laying around. Yeah, and it's it's also I on
a note, now, if you're very familiar with this case,
you're going to know, Oh, he's not bringing up everyone.
I can't. There's not enough time to talk about every
single person who has made allegations. I'm going to go
through enough that you understand what he does.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah. Yeah. At this point, it's literally like dozens and
dozens of people, Like, there's so many people that they've
started filing class actions and against.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
It's the kind of thing where I think, and we'll
never know how many people. It wasn't total, but I
would be shocked if the total number of victims one
way or the other aren't in the hundreds. You know,
there's different levels of victim. There's some people that.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
It's astonishing, there's Genghis Khan levels of things.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, there's some people who are like he coerced me,
but like I did say Yes, there's some people who
were like I got drugged but he didn't rate me,
or like I got out. So there's like degrees of
difference from how this happens because there's so many people
he's doing this too.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
And there's combinations of every single one of those things
too as well. It's like it is layers upon layers.
You know, you're talking this is nineteen ninety one, we're
in twenty twenty four. Yeah, you know, this is a
thirty year legacy of doing this. Yes, and this is
astonished and to only have allegations really because like that's
the one thing is like outside of like the industry,
(08:55):
his image was pretty clean, yeah, you know, like he
had a few little things.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
That was like largely the Tupac stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah did he kill Tupac or or did he was
involved in like but it wasn't really like the sexual
assault stuff that was like big. It was all like
conspiracy mogul like you know, mob type stuff, you know,
like before this point in history.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Right right, absolutely, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Mean we knew about or the other stuff existed and
was out there, but it wasn't like that was what
he was known for. When he came to that, Yeah, people.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Would say, oh, that guy's definitely a piece of shit, right.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, it was almost like he committed a bigger crime. Yeah,
in not being involved in Biggie and Tupacs.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
It's like, look, if you're an overshadowed, if you've got
a crime you want to commit, you know, like maybe
maybe you're looking to do a big crypto scamera or something,
just kill Tupac first and you'll get away with it
for at least thirty years. Yeah, that's that's the Diddy story.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
He might be a judge, but don't take legal advice
from Robert.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, that should take advice. Do not kill Tupac. If
you find Tupac, let us say alone, say he he's
really a lie.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
He deserves to hide. So in the wake of this
horrible sex crime, Sean got his first big opportunity. In
nineteen ninety two, he scouted out and signed a rap
artist named Christopher Wallace, better known to posterity as Biggie
Small's org Notorious Big and this is I'm just I'm
not super you know, knowledgeable, about pop culture. I love Biggie.
(10:25):
Biggie was one of the greatest lyricists of his generation. Honestly,
part of why I love him. I think he's like
written better about depression and hating yourself than most people
in music of her heck, like, I mean, he was great.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
He was Biggie.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
He was He was a huge man.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
He was fat as hell, and he knew he was
fat as hell, and he said it all the time.
And then at one point in his career he acknowledged
not only am I fat as hell, but I'm sexy
as hell too because I'm rich as hell. So, like,
I don't give a shit about what. Yeah, he was
so and he really leaned into it.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
It's like you're talking about a dude whose biggest rival
at the time was Tupac, who was an athletic. Yeah yeah, no,
Tubac was ripped, you know, like and then Biggie's like, yeah, whatever, yeah, yeah,
I'm four hundred pounds. I don't give a shit, and
Biggie is. But he was notoriously notorious LG. Yeah yeah, yeah, legendary.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And he is. This is one of those guys we
talked about a lot of guys and especially gangster rapidly
massage their reputation. Biggie didn't have to do that. He
comes from a tough background. His dad abandons the family
when he's three, which is interesting that both he and
did he lose their dad's at age three. He might
have been part of why they like got along bonded.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
He grew up near Bedsty in Brooklyn, which at that
point in time was a very different neighborhood than it
is today.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Sure not filled with hipsters. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah. He was raised at Jehovah's Witness and became a
drug dealer selling weed at age twelve and moved up
to Crack once that epidemic kicked off. His mother WASH's Yeah,
he's raised a Jehovah's Witness. His mom is very strict.
He has to hide what he's doing from her.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I don't know that I've ever heard that before. That
is really interesting because I mean, like I knew that,
like he was very much. There's a lot of stories.
Even his mom told a lot of stories in the
biographies they'd done with of him and everything, of like
him always having to like hide stuff because she was watching,
she was on top of what he was doing. But
I never heard that.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
It also has a big influence on the kind of
music he makes because his mom is very strict and
the morals that he's raised with conflicts in his new career,
so he always does. He has this feeling that is
I think not super common for a lot of people
in the same industry, that what he's doing is bad right,
and that influences the kind of music he makes. His
debut album is called Ready to Die, which includes the
(12:39):
song the great song Suicidal Thoughts, which opens with the
verse when I die, fuck it, I want to go
to hell because I'm a piece of shit. It ain't
hard to fucking tell, or getting more direct towards his
feelings about his mom. All my life, I've been considered
as the worst, lying to my mother, even stealing out
her purse. Crime after crime, from drugs to extortion. I
know my mom wished she got off fucking abortion. Like, yes,
(13:02):
I love Biggie, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Biggie definitely was very pressing. He was very like knowledgeable
of himself and where he was at, you know, like
he anytime. It was Actually one of the things that
was so fascinating about Biggie's work is that he would
often talk about drug dealing as like as the darkness
that it was like a lot of times like people
were drug dealing, like especially now, it's like this glamour position, right,
(13:26):
and for him it was not. It was so much
more of like, this is what I had to do.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I hate myself because of what I had to do.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah, yeah, I don't like that I had to do
these things. I don't like myself because I had to
do these things. And this is what it's like to
grow up in these situations and have And it was
like it took so much of the glamour out of it.
It was dark. It was twisted, and it was dark,
and it was like, damn, he's really speaking about the
truth of all this. Yeah, you know, it was not
(13:55):
like look at me, I'm doing this because I'm fucking
gonna wear gold necklaces and shit. Like. He was pretty
humble even with like the braggadocious part of it. It
was still kind of dark. Yeah, in its humilities.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Absolutely. I guess what we're getting at is we're both
fans of Bickie. Obviously, Biggie's going to be one of
the most successful rappers of all time, but initially when
he's getting started. His work is seen as too explicit
and too based in his extensive life of crimes from
MCA Records. Who is Uptown's distributor, and that's where Sean works,
and so Shawn's boss, Andre Harrol lets him go basically
(14:28):
fires him, although he will claim. Andre says I didn't
fire him because he was bad. Basically, I said, like, look, man,
you're right, this guy's going to be a hit. The
label that you get for it here fucking bounce. It's
time for you to succeed on your own, right, Andre
later tells Wall Street Journal. I didn't want to sit
there and be the one confining Puff because the corporation
was telling me to do that. I'm not built that way.
(14:49):
I told Puff he needs to go and create his
own opportunity. You're red hot right now. I'm really letting
you go so you can get rich. And that's exactly
what fucking happened.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
So I mean, yeah, later and it's later, Yeah, yeah,
it really did. I mean it was the perfect time
for that. You know, like, for the most part, up
until Biggie and Pac, you know, a lot of hip
hop was more like happy type shit. It was still
like sometimes it was like had the darkness n w
(15:19):
A existed obviously, but like Biggie and Pac were like
really some of the originators of that like dark upbringing
culture of rap where it's like, look, we fucking we
hustle or survive and we're doing what we got to
do and like talking the real truth about what it
was like to be a black man in America at
the time. Yeah, So it was like there was something
really unique about that moment because it was starting to
(15:43):
you know, we're getting the crack epidemic, We're getting you know,
like crime Bill, that old Biden sleepy sleep Yeah, he
was awake, right, So it's like, yeah, exactly, like maybe
he should easily he commits some of the biggest crimes
(16:03):
against black America that you can imagine.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I have always been firmly of the stance that the
water fountains in the Capitol Building need to have XANAX
in them. We could solve a lot of problems, a lot.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Of problems that bring this down a little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
You know, put x X in the water everywhere.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, actually, yeah, great points.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Xan X lithium.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Let's just this is like when you're in high school
and you think you can solve all the world's problems
the first time you take mushrooms and you're like, we
need to give everyone mushroom. We would, but actually maybe
that might.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Maybe maybe we really do need to put lithium in
the water or something. So Comb started a label of
his own Bad Boy Records, and it bad bad Boy,
right clink clink clink. And this is when you're about
the East Coast, West Coast rap fude, it's bad Boy
and death Row over on, you know, the other side
of the country.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Sug Night and Death Row sug Knight, And yeah, are
we gonna shug We're gonna talk a little bit of
sug Knight.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, because basically, Biggie becomes a massive star pretty much overnight,
and that makes bad Boy a name, and that causes
immediate friction with the West Coast premiere gangster wrap enclave,
sug Night's Death Row Records. If you want to know
the kind of man we're talking about, Biggie being a
fucking real gangster. Sug is a real gangster.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Sugar, the realist of gangsters.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Later in life will be shot at two consecutive vm
A after parties.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yes, oh my god, one of my favorite Sugar Night
things is the is the Vanilla Ice story?
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Oh yeah, held him off the roof of.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
A building by his ankles, by his ankles. He held
it because just over some dispute, you know. It's like
it was like Sug was the real suddn't.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Want to give him the rights or sell the rights
to an ice ice baby or something.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Right, Yeah, he held him off the roof of a
bill It's like, this is the type of dude he was.
Is a little side tangent. I don't want to go
too far into it, but recently there was this TikTok
thing that happened where a guy found a bunch of
old death Row tapes two inch tape in a storage lock, right,
And because I'm in the TikTok zone, I saw this
happen and I was like, oh, this is good. Hey,
(18:07):
if you need any help with this, hit me up.
And it turned out to be a bunch of like
mc hammer death Row era stuff, right, And it was
like almost immediately once that started coming out, all all
the comments were like, hey man, just be careful. And
it ended up going that I found the guy, the
(18:28):
engineer that was responsible for that stuff, and I was like, hey, man,
I was like, this guy found all this stuff. Your
name's on the tapes, and he was like, I don't
really want to be involved in that because of that
era of my life was one of the most I've
ever felt like in danger. Yeah, He's like that was
the most I was ever worried about, like making it
(18:51):
through the day was when I worked as an engineer
for death Row.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
There's a lot of things you can say about Suge
Knight that are, you know, bastardy, but also sh Night's
not really even when he's behind bars, not someone I
want to talk too much ship on.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I'm close enough, man, I don't know's We'll say he's
he's a big guys formidable. He's a formidable person. Yeah,
he's a large person and I would not know want
to ever have my tiny skull crush.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
We have lots of respect for you, Shood.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Do you think don't dangles, don't.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Run me over at a burger stand? You know.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah. So this is primarily a story of the evil
that Sean is going to do later in his life
and his involvement in the East Coast West Coast rap
rivalry is like we know, but also it's murky right,
like there's a green murk of to like exactly what
he was doing.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
It's unreliable narrative, as you would write a lot of
unreliable narrative.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Most of the narrators are like talking through wire taps
that the police have, or like interviews the police are conducting.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
So yeah, and literally anything you get in all of
this stuff is it's unreliable. And because there's a level
of ego that's involved in this stuff, there's a level
of self importance and there's a level of also, we
were really fucked up doing drugs and alcohol and I
don't actually remember what was going on. Yeah, It's like
(20:18):
there's a joke in the audio industry about like literally
almost everybody has a I forgot, like like the Fleetwood
Mac like I forgot I made that song story, Like
I don't remember even being there and doing that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I was watching a fucking uh an old video of
them during like the Rumors tour, and it's just clear
like not a one of you. You're all playing perfectly,
but not one of you could walk ten feet without
falling down like you are you are bru walk on
that stage.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And and although it has changed in its direction. There
is still a large amount of that in the music
industry where it's just like even on the like the
professional side of things, like the engineers side of things.
I once cleaned a console that had been like a
soundboard that had been in use since like the early
seventies of like the the Oh Metallica recorded here, like
(21:10):
you know that type of thing. Like every band ever
had used this console, And we took off the plates
for the faders to clean it, and there was actually
cocaine and like and like weed and like shit under
the faders, like that much had accumulated over time that
it was just like under and it was like oh my,
and you're like you're like still, like why am I?
(21:30):
Why am I hands? Like why do I feel numb
right now?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Just cocaine?
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, it's like that seventies.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
This himself before putting it on the back of the truck. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
So there's a lot of like unreliable narration that happens
in the music industry all the time. It's there's a
lot of drugs, there's a lot of alcohol, and there's
a lot of like man, sometimes people tell me my
own stories.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, yeah, like a lot of when you're talking about
the guys who are also literally fighting each other a
lot a head injuries, you know, yes, yeah, But the
gist of it is, there's this huge conflict that comes
to central around Tupac who's the big West Coast star,
and Biggie who is the East Coast star. And you know,
Tupac's you know, with Shug and Biggie is with Sean Diddy.
(22:19):
So things come to a head on November thirtieth, nineteen
ninety four, when Tupac Shakur is shot five times in
the lobby of Quad Studios in Times Square. This is
not when he dies. Tupaca was a tough.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Suy real quick. Just to rewind in this story of
what happened. So the East Coast West Coast thing, one
of the big inciting factors were the Source Awards in
New York probably I think a year before Tupac died,
Suge Knight was on stage directly insulting did it like
that was like that was his thing. He stood up
(22:50):
on stage and he said, Hey, if any of y'all
want to be out there and not have a producer
that is singing and dancing all up in your videos
and being like all in trying to make himself part
of the show. Right, then come over to death row, right,
and this was like a big This was when Snoop
got involved. There was also a moment just before that,
maybe it was right after I forget where Diddy and
(23:12):
Shug were in a strip club in Atlanta and Shug's
best friend. That was one of the times you were
talking about Shugar's best friend got shot and killed in
the parking lot or whatever after that alternate. So up
until Tupac getting shot, there's multiple deaths that have already happened. Like,
this is a back and forth thing that's kind of
been going on, and they've been antagonizing. But it is
(23:35):
Tupac and Biggie verbally in the public, right, But this
is a sug Diddy situation. Yeah, this is their egos
that are bleeding down into their artists, that are fighting
against each other. Because Biggie and Tupac are best friends
at one point, well not best friends, but they are
(23:55):
good friends at one point in time. This is like
an important like part to understand. Yeah, Biggie used to
sleep on Tupac's couch. Tupac's acting and like starting out
his career he's getting like his first records and everything.
He's starting to have success. Before Biggie Biggi's sleeping on
his couch. Biggie is his friend. So Tupac comes to
New York to record at Quad Studios. This is like
(24:16):
the big inciting incident before the Source Awards thing. Tupac
comes to New York. He's recording in Quad Studios. He
comes down to the lobby. Biggie and Diddy are there
as well. That same night he comes down to the lobby,
he gets shot and robbed in the lobby.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Right, and this is New York lobby. It's it's ten
feet there's a security guy there. It's like, you know,
it's a So he gets shot in that lobby and
he immediately blames Biggie.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Well, and there's for selling him out, and there's I
mean yeah, and there's also like it's it's worth Biggie
and Puffy are in the studio right at this at
the top, like, and he is the only it's a
quote unquote robbery, but he is the only one who
gets shot.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, yes, he's the only one that gets shot. And
like it's been dramatized in a lot of like you know,
biopics and everything, but it's a non descript place. Like
I've been to Quad Studios before I recorded there. It's
a pretty non descript place. It's not like a flashy
studio like in La You can see that a lot
of the studios, you know, a lot of them are
kind of like nonscript but but you can like they
(25:17):
have signs or whatever. Quad Studios has no sign. Quad
Studios is not like an accident where you just stumble
in and shoot somebody. Yeah, yeah, no, you have to
know somebody is there. It's on like the thirteenth floor
or some shit.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, he wasn't like on the street, and it was
a crime of opportunity, right, Like the fact that he's like,
what this pad do have been them? Is not not
paranoia or whatever? Ruling yes, yeah, And so that builds
up Tupac.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Actually, right after that shooting, he goes to jail for
sexual assault, spend some time in jail, and that's when
Biggie's career grows gets all big, and he comes out
of jail to see Biggie now succeeding like fully and
also feeling that hatred and that that you know, like
they were involved in this somehow of me getting shot
(26:03):
becomes incredibly paranoid. This is when the Tupac switch really
goes to the gangster shit.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, you know, and he starts and putting out songs
insulting Biggie and bad boy rap exactly exists.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
And again, while he's in jail, Biggie puts out who's shots.
I think he was in jail away. I might be
missing some of this up because also I am an
unreliable But while he's in jail, Biggie puts out who
shot you? Which seems like a direct attack on Tupac.
Who's shot YOUA is like a pretty.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
It's a pretty funny thing to do.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah, when you're wondering who's shot and.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Somebody puts out a song, it's the if I did
it of gangster rap.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yes, it really is, and like and so Tupac's like, okay,
well then he no, and this escalates to a massive,
massive battle between East Coast and West and.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
We are going to talk more about that. But you
know what, never shot Tupac. The best of my knowledge,
I can't really prove this, but it's unlikely.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Our products and sponsor yea and and sponsors, Yeah, products
are the guys, the guys that give us the money.
It's doing stuff very unlikely that they did.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah. Yeah, although although unless it's.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
An yeah, you might get it.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah starts buying podcast space and we're back. So in
September of nineteen ninety five, there's another you know chapter
in this escalating battle. Witnesses say that they see Diddy's
bodyguard get into an argument at an Atlantic club with
(27:38):
a guy named Jai Hassan Jamal Roblez, a member of
Death Rows who's like a death Row guy, right, and
then after that argument, Roblez is shot and killed. And
it's one of those like, well, he was having an
argument with Combs's bodyguard who's a shooter, and then he
gets shot, right.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Turns out people with guns are willing to use this.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And by the way, Combs's bodyguard, who probably Roblez, gets
shot himself years later in Atlanta. You know, not a
long life.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Like I said, this is this is a back and
forth kind of situation for a long time. It's like
it mirrors what is going on because these are people
who are also gang relating in all these situations. It's
a lot of bloods versus crypt situation. This is the
early nineties. This is actually a thing that's going on
in the.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
World is tightened, the organized crime part of it and.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
The mob pirus in California and the and the crypts
in Los Angeles and Crenshaw. It's like this is all
happening at the same time.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Diddy is not a guy who comes out of gang life,
but he is now involved in organized crime, right, because
that's just.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
One of the big implications for Diddy being involved in
Tupac's death is that he was hiring.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Keep Yeah, we'll be talking about that, right.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
So it's like we get into this he is associated
heavily with other gang members. It's a bit like the
Rolling Stones Hell's angel Ship where it's like, who do
you hire to protect you in your territory? Don't hire
the people who are strong there, You don't.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
You're not saying have that, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
And even to this day, you know, I've toured with
some big acts. I've toured with, you know, jay Z
and pusha T. I've toured with a lot of like
mid level like rappers, VIC Mensa and id K, like
all sorts of stuff like that. Even to this day,
when you go to a town, a city, you check
in with the guy there on the rap tours, you
(29:25):
check in with the j princes, you check in with
the people that are the guy in that town out
of respect, out of whatever, but like you make sure
that you are talking to those people. So this is
happening now, make no mistake that was there are people
that were in charge in those cities that were heavily
(29:46):
like involved in the responsibility around protecting those incidences from happening. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Well, podcasting works the same way. You know when the
Last podcast on the Last Guys when they tour in Portland,
you know, they give Sophie and I down, you know,
the pod Save Guys. When I go to d C.
You know, fucking they'll uh the Last the last if
you don't call them.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, you know, and I understand that.
You know, It's like it's the hard business. Similar. Yeah,
the knitting circles are actually very similar as well.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Sophie just put out a hit on
I'm really bad at actually knowing other people in the
podcast business. I was gonna say, Sarah Marshall that y'all
are real life from No, absolutely not. I'm going I'm
going to Chicago. I gotta call the knowledge fight guys.
Make sure they don't fucking put one in me at
the airport. Oh man. So, and it's also worth noting,
(30:44):
as we say people are dying, Combs is ordering hits, right.
I can't say that to a point of legal certainty.
The ordering hits.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
The implication is strong that people are being directed to
execute other people on this. You know. Yeah, bye Sean. First.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I might not have said that a few months ago,
but now that he's in jail, I feel confident he's
not going to assume me for defamation. Yeah, he's definitely
had people killed. Yeah. Yeah. So it is also and
I should you know, we're talking about this feud, and
we will get back to this East coast West coast feud.
I should note here it is around this time in
nineteen ninety three or nineteen ninety four. I think the
(31:25):
timeline's a little bit murky. The person may not remember precisely,
because that's the way trauma works. That Sean Combs is
accused of committing his second rape that we know of,
Lisa Gardner, who was sixteen years old at the time.
He is in his twenties. She is a child says
that she met Colmebs and Aaron Hall at an album
(31:45):
release in New York. She alleges that Colmes coerced her
into having sex, and then Hall assaulted her, and then
Diddy rapes her, and then Diddy and Hall rape her
fifteen year old friend Monica Chase. So he and his
friend Aaron Hall coerce and rape two underage people, one
(32:06):
of whom is fifteen, one of whom is sixteen. The
day after the assault, Combs comes to her house, she says,
and chokes her until she passes out, and then sexually
assaults her again. This is bad stuff. This is bad,
very bad stuff. Yeah, and it's one of those like, yeah,
ordering hits is bad too, But to an extent, everyone
(32:28):
who's in this East Coast West Coast thing is agreeing,
we're going to do some dangerous shit, right.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Yes, oh yeah. Like so outside of the sex assault stuff,
that's just.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Oh no, I'm.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Just like I can't.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Oh my god, you gotta use this. It's the only
thing that you can do after talking about something that horrible.
It's necessary.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Oh no. But it's like it's like that's willing participants stuff,
not the sex assaults of the gang stuff. This is
willing participant stuff. So it's like it's a lot easier
to sit back and be But like the sex assault
stuff happening co currently, it's like, it's that what we
were talking about. It is like it's covering up almost
or being covered up by the gang stuff. It's like
(33:16):
we're over here thinking about East Coast West Coast war.
He's raping girls. Like it's like that's that's the thing
that likes.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, It's like it's like there's one side where it's like, well,
this is like a willing participant situation. I mean, obviously
I'm not trying to say everybody that's hurt by gang
violence is a willing but the yeah, yes, it's like
between these two guys, they are fighting each other. They
are fighting each other, They're causing the country to fight
each other. Like there this is a thing that's like
escalating violence amongst people in gangs. You know. It's like,
(33:49):
but yeah, willing participants. Again, it's like there's obviously collateral
damage is obviously bad shit. But but the other side
of this, where it's like sexual assault stuff, it's like, damn, dude,
like you don't even get that shit. To the surface
because there's people dying.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Right, and everyone's paying attention to the glamorous gang fight stuff, right,
and this is happening the whole time that's going down.
Also in nineteen ninety four, the same year, probably Comb's
allegedly met and raped a woman named April Lampros. She
claims that he started it by telling her he wanted
to be her mentor, he love bombed her, and once
they were dating, he ordered to keep the relationship secret
(34:24):
and started beating her. Lampros later alleged that Combs forced
her and his partner at the time is romantic partner
kim Porter, to take MDMA and then force them to
have sex while he watched. She attempted to cut off
contact with him, but he threatened her, including with revenge porn,
so she keeps going for a while. This would have
been a thing that would have looked like they were
(34:46):
dating from the outside, but a big part of it
is that he is violent and if she leaves, he's
going to post videos of them having you know of yeah,
you know so.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
And this is all a recurring business and all the stuff.
It's like he took that that one playbook and just
ran with it, play the hits every single time. He
just kept going with it because like he knew that
there is a there and there is a very truthful
element to the power of influence like that you can
have by by just being who you are and being
a big deal. And it's scary because you think, especially
(35:18):
with people like Diddy, where they actively know that they
are untouchable. Yeah, they actively know that they're untouchable and
that they can do whatever they want.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
And these are like, these are the two cases we
have from the fucking the war years, right, these aren't
the only two. Like, again important, that's not a singular
event type. This is a pattern that he has and
he is engaging in this pattern regularly for basically like
most of the time you and I have been alive.
That's the kind of bastard we're talking about it.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
I was five when he started, Yeah, right, that was three. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
In September of nineteen ninety six, Tupac was gunned down
in a drive by shooting in Las Vegas. Six months
after that, Biggie is killed they drive by in Los Angeles.
No one was officially convicted by their murder, but we
at this point also pretty much know who did both.
Biggie was very likely gunned down by a guy named Pouci,
So you can imagine is the character from the Simpsons
(36:13):
if you like.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
And he's gonna at the end of it.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
He is.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Here's the toughest part. Again, again, unreliable narrators, right. Also,
every single one of these people die, every single one
of them gets shot in an early death, or Leido Anderson,
who was the likely killer of Tupac, also ended early.
Keithy D is the only one that's stuck around.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
For amazing makes it You never think it's gonna be,
but it is.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Keithy D sticks around and he is as unreliable as
they come, just because of who he is as a person.
It is all it's braggadocious shit. It's all about like
talking about I who was involved in this thing? It
is definitely he was involved. Yeah he was in the
right places. But there's a lot of like you know,
it's even that way with Suge Knight, where it's like
Suge Knight is bragging about a lot of this stuff
(37:05):
and trying to like elevate and you don't get a
complete narrative because nobody is ever gonna tell the truth.
Right right, and as far as the evidence points yeah, Poochie.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
And also clarify here you will find other theories. There
are people who say, no, it wasn't Poochi, it was
this other person that killed Biggie, and the same is
true with Tupac. I'm going with like the likeliest version
of the story. This is not a litigate who killed Tupac?
Podcast right, there's literally podcasts, strong opinions, nine biographies, there's bios,
(37:41):
there's there's so many things. I've got to work in
theory that it was in fact Bernie Sanders who dropped
to damnit, I.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Was gonna make that joke. I was gonna say this.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Sanders.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
I was ready, damn it. I was gonna make that
joke because I knew it was going to be a
deep cut that like the real lovers of the pot,
he'd be like, oh shit, he's one of us.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah. So, as you noted, Tupac was almost certainly killed
by Dwayne Keefey d Davis, who was finally arrested last
year for the murder. He had been made a police
informant in two thousand and nine after an arrest for
drug trafficking. This is like a lot of people. He
is not super well informed about how the legal system works,
(38:25):
and he believed himself immune to prosecution and admitted to
killing Tupac in a drive by in nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
And all right, so heavily believe So the breakdown of
this story, I'll try and get through really quick. But basically,
it was a Tyson fight in Las Vegas. Tupac is
there with his girlfriend and Suge Knight. He goes because
he actually wrote a song for Mike Tyson's walking. He
wrote like a rap song from Mike Tyson and it's like,
it's funny, you should listen to it, but it's, you know,
(38:52):
a Tupac. So he's there and he's watching the fight.
And then after the fight he sees a guy, Orlando Anderson,
who just weeks prior had taken somebody down and stolen
their chain. This is a big deal at this time.
You have a chain that says death row on it.
Suge Knight only gives those to the closest of associate cinema.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Again, podcasting works the same way. Exactly, I'm gonna come
out blast it.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah, Orlando Anderson was involved in that. Tupac sees him
right after the Tyson fight, he beats the shit out
of him in a lobby and then goes back to
his place. And then Sugar and Tupac are gonna go
to an after party. They start driving down the street.
Orlando Anderson happens to be Keithy D's nephew, right, and
they are in a car together driving down the street,
(39:40):
and Orlando and keify. Depending on which narrator you believe
one of them definitely plug Tupac. Now in one of
the greatest moments in Tupac history, in all history, fuck it.
The cop comes up to Tupac and he says, who
shot you? Two bucks is fuck you? Because even in
(40:06):
death he kept it real. It is one of my
favorite Those were like his last words. That was his
last words, was saying fuck you to him.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
He's a literal Johnny tight lips character. Yeah you shut
I ain't saying nothing.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
I say yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Would tell the doctor tell him to a second exactly, literally,
like who shot you?
Speaker 3 (40:32):
He knows who shot him. He just beat that guy
up ten fucking minutes ago. You know. He's like, no, man,
fuck yourselves.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Speaking of shooting people. Don't do that. Listen to these ads.
We are.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Bah no now man, Shane so much Shane.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Fuck so Tupac. We're talking about Tupac who was almost
certainly killed by Dwayne Keefe D Davis. So Davis, while
believing himself immune to prosecution, admits to killing Tupac in
nineteen ninety six. This is much more recently. He just
got arrested, I think last year. And he also claims,
while he again believed himself immune, that did he offered
(41:27):
him a million dollars to kill Tupac and paid that
fee to a different South Side Crips member to do
the job.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
And he did not get that money ever.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
No, Wow, he got fucked over by a fucking did.
He's not a man of his word, man.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
This guy. No. So. One of the things, so Keithy
D had actually been a security guard for Puffy for
a while and like and that's how that link had
been established, you know. One of the things that's like
there's parts of this whole story that you have to
kind of take with like a bit of like I
don't think Keithy D was actively like seeking out Tupac
or anything. I think there's a situation where if Puffy
(42:09):
was involved in this whole situation the way that it
has been accused. I think he did what they say
he did, which is he put a word out. The
word is, if you kill Tupac, I give you a
million dollars. Right. And then I think keify D and
Orlando Anderson happened to be in the right place at
the right time, right. They they were at the right
(42:30):
place at the right time, they were connected in the
right situation that it happened that they were like, we
know where this motherfucker is. We are here right now,
Let's do this shit and we'll try and collect on
this later. And I think probably, although I don't think
it was a million dollars right this. I could be
wrong about this, but I think what it was actually
transferred was like two hundred thousand or something like that.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
This is what keify D says, right. I'm not saying
this is the literal amounts or how it actually right opened.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Right. So I think that that's exactly like I think
it got transferred. I think people didn't like the one
guy definitely pocketed that money, or according to the story,
pocketed that money. The in between guy pocketed that money
and was like okay, bitch. But I think that. You know, again,
unreliable narration in this whole story, but there's some I
don't think it was intentional, is my point, that they
(43:20):
were trying out at that moment to kill Tupac. They
didn't go to Vegas with the intent of killing Tupac.
I think they went to Vegas to see a fight,
and yeah, there was an incident and then it just
turned up and it was a perfect time, you know. Yeah,
it seems more like that than it was a premeditated
situation of they're out there looking to kill Tupac, like
they're on the street ready to do it, Like Biggie
(43:42):
saw Keithy and was like, I will give you this money,
go kill him now, and he went there directly. I
think it was a crime of convenience more.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that seems likely to me. I don't
know what happened. And again when I was saying this
is what this guy says, I'm not saying this is
literally what happened. This is a dude bowshitting to the
cops how he thinks he's im mute. So the cops
had him reach out to the guy that he said
actually got paid for the job, and to Ditty basically
trying to get ditty on a wire, being like, yeah,
(44:09):
killing Tupac was rad right, I don't think that worked.
Sean is not that dumb, and he has.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
He has notoriously been very good about not talking to
the wrong people.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yes, you know, and he has not been charged with this.
I don't know that he ever will. But prosecutors, summarizing
one of the interviews with KFD and court documents wrote,
and this is from right after Tupac's death, Sean Combs
reaches out to defendant wondering if Southside crips were responsible
for Shakur's death by asking, is that us defendant beaming
with pride? Answers yes, And that is probably how it
(44:40):
went down, because it often these things are not like
I ordered to hit and then he was shot. It
was more I made it known and I spread some
money around that like I wanted someone to take a
shot at this guy, but like other people could have
done it, like I don't know, you know, this is
what I'm.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Talking about, the clout industry of this because it is
part entertainment industry, it's part it's part male ego, and
like especially at this time, like the way that the
rap industry was was like very like strong, like male
ego centric type stuff. You know. It was like Tupac
literally the beef between him and Biggie, like you know,
Biggie made hushatcha and he responded. Tupac responded with saying,
(45:16):
you claim to be a player, but I fucked your wife,
you know, like he Yeah, he came back with what
at that time was considered the most and the rumors
around him and faith Hill actually having you know, a relationship.
We're certainly like that's real shit. You know, like this
is a real like manly type fight. You know, this
is what they're fighting about, these chauvinistic type concepts.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
No, I mean it's exactly like I put two bullets
in Dan from knowledge fight, you know, not because I
didn't like him, just because you know he was on
my turf, right, you know, he was on my turf
and he didn't call me before Jordan went to Portland.
You know, this is just the way nobody likes it.
This is just the way podcasting has to be. There's
no other way to do it, you know, Sorry, man,
there's no other way to do it. Yeah. Yeah, one
(45:59):
of the NP are guys stabbed me. You know, that's
just the way it is. One of those radio lab guys.
I'm not going to tell you which one. I don't
talk except for snitch. I'll snitch on Joe Rogan.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Yeah, let me find out some news on him.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
So anyway, not conclusive, but probably pretty safe to say.
Did he had something to do with the Tupac killing.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
At the very least he influenced it by positively putting
put that word into the hood, right, if you kill him,
there's money on it for.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Yeah, exactly. And you know, obviously, the greater crime in
this is the fan art that this whole tragic rivalry
has inspired it. I'm speaking specifically. I wrote this episode
listening to a bunch of Tupac and Biggie socks, and
while I was, you know, YouTube does its thing, and
it took me to a playlist some DJ had made
that was like Tupac and Biggie songs called Biggie Versus Tupac.
(46:52):
It has nothing to do with the story, but whoever
made it did a photo shop that Sophie's going to
show you, and it's supposed to be like split down
the middle, Tupac space and Biggie's face by side, but
the way they did it, it just looks like Tupac
had a stroke. Yeah, so to show it off.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Okay, I got it stroked down.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Like Biggie's got kind of those eyes. Not a successful
photo shop, my man. I'm sorry, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Here's the thing, man, just like you know, just like
nw A, you know, the largest consumers of this East Coast,
West Coast rap suburban white kids. You know. It's like,
and this is true with even today, like you get
into like the Travis Scott stuff, you get into like
any wrap that's like, you know, it is largely consumed
by suburban white kids who also I'm sorry, guys, like
(47:53):
you know, same team or whatever, but you guys could
be some of the dumbest corny as people that exist
on the planet. Like that is pretty brutal, man.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
But yeah, the doubt, like the as a suburban white
kid who was listening to fucking Biggie when I was fifty.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, me too, Sorry, guys, Yeah, we just weren't really
nailing it.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
I'm gonna be a gangster one day, Plano fucking Tach. God,
that was so funny. All the kids who would pretend
to be fucking gangsters.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Oh my god, dude. It is the large consumer of yeah, yeah, yeah,
of that bee. And also even today we're still sitting
with this, the Kendrick Drake thing right now that is
going on. I don't know how plugged in you are
to this.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
I've tried to tell you.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
It seems Yeah, it seems largely egged on by like
suburban white populace.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
No, honestly, I'm considering taking some shots at Drake. This
seems like the time to do it.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
You know. Yeah, he's low, he's low. You can really
get some in and nobody can say anything. This is
gonna be punching down, punching down on Drake with whatever
streams on spots.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah. So Sean Puffy Combs at this point has helped
it orchestraight Half a Coast's campaign of assassinations that led
to the deaths of two of the greatest rappers of
all time and also some other people. This was a
tough period for Diddy, though, because after Biggie dies, he's
successfully gotten rid of one of his major competitors at
the cost of losing his own golden goose.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Sort of, sort of, sort of. He waited a whole
two weeks to release this. That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah,
So he releases his first hit single in January of
nineteen ninety seven. An album follows in July, which includes
a touching tribute to Biggie titled I'll Be Missing You.
That might as well be titled I'll be Cashing in
on your Death. Although the complaint that you're gonna get
(49:44):
from this, people are gonna be like, but he he
never cleared the sample right from Sting?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Right, yeah, he samples Stings every move you take, right something, Yeah, yeah,
the greatest crime he.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
Never clears it, and he to this day, like Sting,
collects a pretty big amount of cash off of that. However,
don't also forget that this is a time in the
world where appearances pay, radio play pays, like everything pays.
This isn't Spotify era, where like, you know, the song
being everywhere in the entire world doesn't give you any
(50:15):
money even though you're not getting any publishing off of it, because, yeah,
when you record it yourself, you own that. That's the
master recording, You own your version of it. Yeah, for
certain things, right, publishing is one thing they can take
all the publishing, and you still make money off of
that song because it plays places.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
So it's not like it's not like he made no
money off of that. I just know, like people are
going but he didn't cash in on that because can
you know, Yeah, no, it's like there's still money to
be made, Especially in the nineties, there was still a
lot of money to be made off of having a
number one song in the country.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
This is the first rap single to debut at number
one on the Billboard Top one hundred. Like, he makes
a lot of money as a result.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
Everybody knows this song comes out at the VMA's dancing
in a white suit like like he it was actually iconic.
It's actually I mean yeah, yeah, the Biggie memorial in
the background, his dead.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
Friend's huge face. Is he just fucking cash register sounds
going on immediately.
Speaker 3 (51:16):
And there is also real quick just to backpedal a second,
there is a lot of talk about Biggie wanting to
leave Puffy's label before this happens. There is interviews with
tons of people, again unreliable narrator type stuff, but there
is a lot of interviews with people saying that Biggie
(51:37):
wanted out of his deal with bad Boy because he
felt like Puffy was taking advantage of him. He felt
like he wasn't getting what he should from his music,
that he wasn't getting like I think at the time,
like he was worth like maybe twenty million dollars or
something like that, you know, but he was not like
reaping what he actually should have from nine era music.
(52:01):
You know. It's like when you had a banger in
nineties era music, you made like fifty million dollars. It
was like an insane amount of money that you could make. Like,
if you talk about nineties bands, they were selling they
were still selling physical product. It's not like now with
streaming and stuff like that. They were selling a physical product.
So if you had a platinum album in the nineties,
(52:23):
you made twenty five thirty million, if you're label didn't
screw you, if there were you know, if you weren't
getting fucked over, you made like thirty or forty million dollars,
like you made in a tremendous amount of money. There's
a lot of there's a lot of conversation about Biggie
having known that prior to his death, which also leads
to the implication that he may have actually been involved
(52:46):
in yeah own death.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Yeah, And we're largely just staying away from that because
it's it's not provable and the stuff that's provable is
for shit honestly a lot.
Speaker 3 (52:54):
Worse again, very unreliable narrators everywhere. But it should at
least be known that there is the theory out there
in the world that that is something that goes on.
You know, that that happened and that was what he
was part of with that.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Well, that's going to do it for part two. Will
you got anything to plug before we roll out?
Speaker 3 (53:13):
Man? I have podcasts if you are a nerd and
you like audio stuff but not nerdy audio stuff. I
have a podcast called that Sounds About Right with my
friend Shane Lance, who is a polar opposite of me
as a human. He's very Christian, very positive human being,
and I am divorced three times, so we make a
(53:34):
good pair and we talk about cool audio stuff, about
our own careers and a little inspirational. I mean, it's
called That Sounds About Right. I also am found all
over the internet on things from YouTube to TikTok under
Greasy Will, Greasywill Music, Greezy, I'm easy to find a
z and only one l on.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Will Yeah check him out and uh check me out
on Blue Sky, and I write, ok, and check out
our other podcast, Blue Sky. I am all right now, Yeah,
I'm happy you Actually you liked one of my ship
did You're a thing, and people.
Speaker 3 (54:10):
Were very excited about it.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
I don't have many followers on Blue Sky, but I
share some really dark, twisted thoughts on there, so you know,
if you're into that, you can find me there too.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
I'm sure watch will cancel himself and watch me cancel
myself all on Blue Sky. All right, Well that's it.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool
Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the
Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday
and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash
(54:53):
at Behind the Bastards
A media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh here, ye, hear ye. The Court of Bastards is
now in session, the Honorable Judge Robert Evans presiding. And
that's not a bit. I'm making an announcement here. Well,
I don't think I told you this yet. I have
been sworn in as a judge. I am legally a
(00:25):
United States municipal judge for the state of New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
This is not this is it's not a bit, and
he's brought it up.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I think he's told me this same same piece of
information five pounds.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I have the paperwork. I am now legally the Honorable
Robert Evans. For the rest of my life. I can
marry people, not just officiate like some of you folks.
I can witness documents, I could hear cases. I don't
think anyone's gonna give me any but I am a
judge now in New Mexico. And uh, you know.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
How how does one become a judge in New Mexico?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
You get sworn in by another judge. It works. Actually,
I'm just like.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
How did you do you? Just you had to like
call them and was there an online app.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Let's let's call them a fan. I mean, definitely they
are a fan, a wonderful person whose name and.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
They were like, hey, bro, did you know that it's
no work to become a judge?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
You know it's incredibly easy. Well, it's apparently I didn't
know this either. Becoming a judge works exactly like being
a vampire and interview with a vampire.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Come in.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
If somebody invite you more than you get, you can
get made a judge by like a bigger judge. But
you cannot necessarily make other people judges.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
You have to see you have to drink a certain
amount of blood.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yeah, yeah, you got to keep the pyramid at a
you know, a certain angle or else it gets too wide.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Again, if if I'm remembering interview with a vampire, right,
I am now going to live in France and then
burn down a theater.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Take on an eight year old child as you.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Take on an eight year old Ye?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Do the whole reare with that was? I'm very confused
still about what she was in that movie.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
You gotta try the new TV show will It's It's wonderful?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Oh is it? I? I kind of I saw that
it existed, but I kind of put it in the
same like, you know, when they made the Archie comic
into it. Yeah, Drama Dale. I kind of so, I
kind of assumed it was something like that where they
just like or like The Fresh Prince, they turned that
into a fucking drama or whatever. It was like something
(02:28):
like that where it was just like real teeny like
as a Buffy the Vampire type show.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
No, I can confidently say as a United States judge
that show is good. I do that power. I'm gonna
go do a Blood Meridian after this. Call me the
Judge used my own urine to make gunpowder. It's gonna
be incredible, folks, amazing. But my first act as judge
is to sit down with my buddy, the Grammy Award
(02:54):
winning Greasy Will and Judge P Diddy, and this will
be legally binding whatever I say, the courts have to do.
If I understand being a judge right, and I don't
think I do.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Can I be the middle of the defense and the prosecutor,
Like I don't know, I want to be both? Can
I be both?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah? You could absolutely be both?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, whatever's fun A kind of a moment.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
A guest of behind the Bastard's like primary responsibility is
to be a bit of both of these things like
cheering you on for your incredible journalistic integrity and also
correcting your pronunciation.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Words Jeordia ash I honestly forget what we were saying.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
See, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, not my job as a judge to know how
to pronounce R and B Duo Jordia Cage, Jordia Jeordia Jordan.
You know what, I sentence you to come up with
a different fucking name. I'm glad this intro was fun
because what we're going to talk about after this cold
open not fun at all. We're back and things are
(03:56):
about to get horrible. So nineteen ninety one, the same
year that he got all of those fucking people killed,
is the year in which Joy j o I Dickerson Neil,
one of those hyphenated last names, claims that Sean drugged
and raped her. Yes, yeah, I know, sorry, there was
there was no way to learn out swing. That's why
(04:17):
I opened something fun. Yeah, because it's gonna get It's
just it's I mean, this is gonna be horrible, folks.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Sorry, what year was this?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Ninety one, same year he got nine people killed in
a crush, So this is the earliest. I don't know
that This is the first person that John drugs and
assaults or assault period. But this is the earliest allegation
so far against Diddy that may have changed by the
time these episodes dropped. It is coming out rapidly every day.
It is one of the most serious. She was a
college student at the time. Sean was an up and
(04:48):
coming music producer who hosted legendary parties. He put her
in one of his music videos and then while they
were doing that, he asked her out on a date,
which is you know, classic story.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Classic story. Yeah, this is why the yeah prototype exists.
This is why people know that this is a thing. Yeah,
it's just the classic producers story.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And it's it's fucked up because like obviously this is
the way a lot of people get assaulted. It is
also legitimately how a lot of people's careers begin. Yeah,
you know, like and honestly, sometimes both happen, right, Like
that's yes, which is why it's going to keep happening.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
The story is exactly that. It's literally, let me assault
you and you get a career.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
You can get in this fucking you know, I.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Mean, it's you know, and as this progresses on, we're
going to see a lot of that where it's like
people who go along with it make it, and when
they stop going along with it, they disappear.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Right right, yes, yes, you know. So after dinner, Sean
pushes Joy to stay out with him. She wants to
go home, and he's like, no, no, no, let's go, and
he takes you to a recording studio. She has a
drink at some point, I think, on the drive over,
and she like can't get out of the car because
she's so fucked up by the time they get there,
not from the drink, but from the fact that the
drink has been drug. Obviously drug, I'm guessing just from
(06:01):
her description, sounds like GHB, but could have been a
couple of things.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Pretty fast acting. Yes, yes, in a car drive across
the Yeah, that's that's not.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
A long Nope, nope, nope. Combs takes her to a
separate location and he sexually assaults her. He films the rape.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Naturally, because why not keep evidence.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Why not keep that? Well, he films that he uses
like revenge porn against her, right.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Oh yeah, so this is like this is where he
starts to get into this.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
The black man is doing this from the jump, Yeah, yeah, Epstein,
if you will, Yeah, exactly, And Dickerson actually finds out
that he's videotaped it because a male friend of hers
comes to her and is like, hey, man, I was
just hanging out with Sean and he showed us a
video of himself having sex with you and like you
don't really look like you're conscious, right, So that's how
(06:47):
she finds out about it. Like he shares he shows
this to a number of people.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
That is just fucking awful.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
It's hideous and it's one of those things.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Wait, so wait, so this is ninety one, right, ninety one?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, what what do you have?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
It?
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Was it a camp quarder?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
He had like a camp It must have been like
a camp quorder Yeah, like that, it was.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Not like it was it hidden situation or because there's
like there's like an element of like decisions that he
had to make, like he had to set this up
and plan this, like this wasn't you know, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
He had to set this up. He played the plan this.
He spent a lot of money, like it's not cheap
dead right Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, camera in ninety one was very expective. You weren't
just buying one cheese.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
That's probably a big part of an addition just wanted
to do in the first place. Why she's drugged, right,
is so that he can set up and do all this, you.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Know, right. Yeah, it's not an easy process to use.
It's not like now you just push a button or
whatever on your phone. You gotta set this, get lighting
and shit like. It's like camp quorders were not just like.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Just laying around. Yeah, and it's it's also I on
a note, now, if you're very familiar with this case,
you're going to know, Oh, he's not bringing up everyone.
I can't. There's not enough time to talk about every
single person who has made allegations. I'm going to go
through enough that you understand what he does.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah. Yeah. At this point, it's literally like dozens and
dozens of people, Like, there's so many people that they've
started filing class actions and against.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
It's the kind of thing where I think, and we'll
never know how many people. It wasn't total, but I
would be shocked if the total number of victims one
way or the other aren't in the hundreds. You know,
there's different levels of victim. There's some people that.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
It's astonishing, there's Genghis Khan levels of things.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, there's some people who are like he coerced me,
but like I did say Yes, there's some people who
were like I got drugged but he didn't rate me,
or like I got out. So there's like degrees of
difference from how this happens because there's so many people
he's doing this too.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
And there's combinations of every single one of those things
too as well. It's like it is layers upon layers.
You know, you're talking this is nineteen ninety one, we're
in twenty twenty four. Yeah, you know, this is a
thirty year legacy of doing this. Yes, and this is
astonished and to only have allegations really because like that's
the one thing is like outside of like the industry,
(08:55):
his image was pretty clean, yeah, you know, like he
had a few little things.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
That was like largely the Tupac stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah did he kill Tupac or or did he was
involved in like but it wasn't really like the sexual
assault stuff that was like big. It was all like
conspiracy mogul like you know, mob type stuff, you know,
like before this point in history.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Right right, absolutely, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Mean we knew about or the other stuff existed and
was out there, but it wasn't like that was what
he was known for. When he came to that, Yeah, people.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Would say, oh, that guy's definitely a piece of shit, right.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, it was almost like he committed a bigger crime. Yeah,
in not being involved in Biggie and Tupacs.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
It's like, look, if you're an overshadowed, if you've got
a crime you want to commit, you know, like maybe
maybe you're looking to do a big crypto scamera or something,
just kill Tupac first and you'll get away with it
for at least thirty years. Yeah, that's that's the Diddy story.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
He might be a judge, but don't take legal advice
from Robert.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, that should take advice. Do not kill Tupac. If
you find Tupac, let us say alone, say he he's
really a lie.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
He deserves to hide. So in the wake of this
horrible sex crime, Sean got his first big opportunity. In
nineteen ninety two, he scouted out and signed a rap
artist named Christopher Wallace, better known to posterity as Biggie
Small's org Notorious Big and this is I'm just I'm
not super you know, knowledgeable, about pop culture. I love Biggie.
(10:25):
Biggie was one of the greatest lyricists of his generation. Honestly,
part of why I love him. I think he's like
written better about depression and hating yourself than most people
in music of her heck, like, I mean, he was great.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
He was Biggie.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
He was He was a huge man.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
He was fat as hell, and he knew he was
fat as hell, and he said it all the time.
And then at one point in his career he acknowledged
not only am I fat as hell, but I'm sexy
as hell too because I'm rich as hell. So, like,
I don't give a shit about what. Yeah, he was
so and he really leaned into it.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
It's like you're talking about a dude whose biggest rival
at the time was Tupac, who was an athletic. Yeah yeah, no,
Tubac was ripped, you know, like and then Biggie's like, yeah, whatever, yeah, yeah,
I'm four hundred pounds. I don't give a shit, and
Biggie is. But he was notoriously notorious LG. Yeah yeah, yeah, legendary.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And he is. This is one of those guys we
talked about a lot of guys and especially gangster rapidly
massage their reputation. Biggie didn't have to do that. He
comes from a tough background. His dad abandons the family
when he's three, which is interesting that both he and
did he lose their dad's at age three. He might
have been part of why they like got along bonded.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
He grew up near Bedsty in Brooklyn, which at that
point in time was a very different neighborhood than it
is today.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Sure not filled with hipsters. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah. He was raised at Jehovah's Witness and became a
drug dealer selling weed at age twelve and moved up
to Crack once that epidemic kicked off. His mother WASH's Yeah,
he's raised a Jehovah's Witness. His mom is very strict.
He has to hide what he's doing from her.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I don't know that I've ever heard that before. That
is really interesting because I mean, like I knew that,
like he was very much. There's a lot of stories.
Even his mom told a lot of stories in the
biographies they'd done with of him and everything, of like
him always having to like hide stuff because she was watching,
she was on top of what he was doing. But
I never heard that.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
It also has a big influence on the kind of
music he makes because his mom is very strict and
the morals that he's raised with conflicts in his new career,
so he always does. He has this feeling that is
I think not super common for a lot of people
in the same industry, that what he's doing is bad right,
and that influences the kind of music he makes. His
debut album is called Ready to Die, which includes the
(12:39):
song the great song Suicidal Thoughts, which opens with the
verse when I die, fuck it, I want to go
to hell because I'm a piece of shit. It ain't
hard to fucking tell, or getting more direct towards his
feelings about his mom. All my life, I've been considered
as the worst, lying to my mother, even stealing out
her purse. Crime after crime, from drugs to extortion. I
know my mom wished she got off fucking abortion. Like, yes,
(13:02):
I love Biggie, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Biggie definitely was very pressing. He was very like knowledgeable
of himself and where he was at, you know, like
he anytime. It was Actually one of the things that
was so fascinating about Biggie's work is that he would
often talk about drug dealing as like as the darkness
that it was like a lot of times like people
were drug dealing, like especially now, it's like this glamour position, right,
(13:26):
and for him it was not. It was so much
more of like, this is what I had to do.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I hate myself because of what I had to do.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah, yeah, I don't like that I had to do
these things. I don't like myself because I had to
do these things. And this is what it's like to
grow up in these situations and have And it was
like it took so much of the glamour out of it.
It was dark. It was twisted, and it was dark,
and it was like, damn, he's really speaking about the
truth of all this. Yeah, you know, it was not
(13:55):
like look at me, I'm doing this because I'm fucking
gonna wear gold necklaces and shit. Like. He was pretty
humble even with like the braggadocious part of it. It
was still kind of dark. Yeah, in its humilities.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Absolutely. I guess what we're getting at is we're both
fans of Bickie. Obviously, Biggie's going to be one of
the most successful rappers of all time, but initially when
he's getting started. His work is seen as too explicit
and too based in his extensive life of crimes from
MCA Records. Who is Uptown's distributor, and that's where Sean works,
and so Shawn's boss, Andre Harrol lets him go basically
(14:28):
fires him, although he will claim. Andre says I didn't
fire him because he was bad. Basically, I said, like, look, man,
you're right, this guy's going to be a hit. The
label that you get for it here fucking bounce. It's
time for you to succeed on your own, right, Andre
later tells Wall Street Journal. I didn't want to sit
there and be the one confining Puff because the corporation
was telling me to do that. I'm not built that way.
(14:49):
I told Puff he needs to go and create his
own opportunity. You're red hot right now. I'm really letting
you go so you can get rich. And that's exactly
what fucking happened.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
So I mean, yeah, later and it's later, Yeah, yeah,
it really did. I mean it was the perfect time
for that. You know, like, for the most part, up
until Biggie and Pac, you know, a lot of hip
hop was more like happy type shit. It was still
like sometimes it was like had the darkness n w
(15:19):
A existed obviously, but like Biggie and Pac were like
really some of the originators of that like dark upbringing
culture of rap where it's like, look, we fucking we
hustle or survive and we're doing what we got to
do and like talking the real truth about what it
was like to be a black man in America at
the time. Yeah, So it was like there was something
really unique about that moment because it was starting to
(15:43):
you know, we're getting the crack epidemic, We're getting you know,
like crime Bill, that old Biden sleepy sleep Yeah, he
was awake, right, So it's like, yeah, exactly, like maybe
he should easily he commits some of the biggest crimes
(16:03):
against black America that you can imagine.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I have always been firmly of the stance that the
water fountains in the Capitol Building need to have XANAX
in them. We could solve a lot of problems, a lot.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Of problems that bring this down a little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
You know, put x X in the water everywhere.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, actually, yeah, great points.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Xan X lithium.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Let's just this is like when you're in high school
and you think you can solve all the world's problems
the first time you take mushrooms and you're like, we
need to give everyone mushroom. We would, but actually maybe
that might.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Maybe maybe we really do need to put lithium in
the water or something. So Comb started a label of
his own Bad Boy Records, and it bad bad Boy,
right clink clink clink. And this is when you're about
the East Coast, West Coast rap fude, it's bad Boy
and death Row over on, you know, the other side
of the country.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Sug Night and Death Row sug Knight, And yeah, are
we gonna shug We're gonna talk a little bit of
sug Knight.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, because basically, Biggie becomes a massive star pretty much overnight,
and that makes bad Boy a name, and that causes
immediate friction with the West Coast premiere gangster wrap enclave,
sug Night's Death Row Records. If you want to know
the kind of man we're talking about, Biggie being a
fucking real gangster. Sug is a real gangster.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Sugar, the realist of gangsters.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Later in life will be shot at two consecutive vm
A after parties.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yes, oh my god, one of my favorite Sugar Night
things is the is the Vanilla Ice story?
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Oh yeah, held him off the roof of.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
A building by his ankles, by his ankles. He held
it because just over some dispute, you know. It's like
it was like Sug was the real suddn't.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Want to give him the rights or sell the rights
to an ice ice baby or something.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Right, Yeah, he held him off the roof of a
bill It's like, this is the type of dude he was.
Is a little side tangent. I don't want to go
too far into it, but recently there was this TikTok
thing that happened where a guy found a bunch of
old death Row tapes two inch tape in a storage lock, right,
And because I'm in the TikTok zone, I saw this
happen and I was like, oh, this is good. Hey,
(18:07):
if you need any help with this, hit me up.
And it turned out to be a bunch of like
mc hammer death Row era stuff, right, And it was
like almost immediately once that started coming out, all all
the comments were like, hey man, just be careful. And
it ended up going that I found the guy, the
(18:28):
engineer that was responsible for that stuff, and I was like, hey, man,
I was like, this guy found all this stuff. Your
name's on the tapes, and he was like, I don't
really want to be involved in that because of that
era of my life was one of the most I've
ever felt like in danger. Yeah, He's like that was
the most I was ever worried about, like making it
(18:51):
through the day was when I worked as an engineer
for death Row.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
There's a lot of things you can say about Suge
Knight that are, you know, bastardy, but also sh Night's
not really even when he's behind bars, not someone I
want to talk too much ship on.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I'm close enough, man, I don't know's We'll say he's
he's a big guys formidable. He's a formidable person. Yeah,
he's a large person and I would not know want
to ever have my tiny skull crush.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
We have lots of respect for you, Shood.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Do you think don't dangles, don't.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Run me over at a burger stand? You know.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah. So this is primarily a story of the evil
that Sean is going to do later in his life
and his involvement in the East Coast West Coast rap
rivalry is like we know, but also it's murky right,
like there's a green murk of to like exactly what
he was doing.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
It's unreliable narrative, as you would write a lot of
unreliable narrative.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Most of the narrators are like talking through wire taps
that the police have, or like interviews the police are conducting.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
So yeah, and literally anything you get in all of
this stuff is it's unreliable. And because there's a level
of ego that's involved in this stuff, there's a level
of self importance and there's a level of also, we
were really fucked up doing drugs and alcohol and I
don't actually remember what was going on. Yeah, It's like
(20:18):
there's a joke in the audio industry about like literally
almost everybody has a I forgot, like like the Fleetwood
Mac like I forgot I made that song story, Like
I don't remember even being there and doing that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I was watching a fucking uh an old video of
them during like the Rumors tour, and it's just clear
like not a one of you. You're all playing perfectly,
but not one of you could walk ten feet without
falling down like you are you are bru walk on
that stage.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And and although it has changed in its direction. There
is still a large amount of that in the music
industry where it's just like even on the like the
professional side of things, like the engineers side of things.
I once cleaned a console that had been like a
soundboard that had been in use since like the early
seventies of like the the Oh Metallica recorded here, like
(21:10):
you know that type of thing. Like every band ever
had used this console, And we took off the plates
for the faders to clean it, and there was actually
cocaine and like and like weed and like shit under
the faders, like that much had accumulated over time that
it was just like under and it was like oh my,
and you're like you're like still, like why am I?
(21:30):
Why am I hands? Like why do I feel numb
right now?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Just cocaine?
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, it's like that seventies.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
This himself before putting it on the back of the truck. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
So there's a lot of like unreliable narration that happens
in the music industry all the time. It's there's a
lot of drugs, there's a lot of alcohol, and there's
a lot of like man, sometimes people tell me my
own stories.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, yeah, like a lot of when you're talking about
the guys who are also literally fighting each other a
lot a head injuries, you know, yes, yeah, But the
gist of it is, there's this huge conflict that comes
to central around Tupac who's the big West Coast star,
and Biggie who is the East Coast star. And you know,
Tupac's you know, with Shug and Biggie is with Sean Diddy.
(22:19):
So things come to a head on November thirtieth, nineteen
ninety four, when Tupac Shakur is shot five times in
the lobby of Quad Studios in Times Square. This is
not when he dies. Tupaca was a tough.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Suy real quick. Just to rewind in this story of
what happened. So the East Coast West Coast thing, one
of the big inciting factors were the Source Awards in
New York probably I think a year before Tupac died,
Suge Knight was on stage directly insulting did it like
that was like that was his thing. He stood up
(22:50):
on stage and he said, Hey, if any of y'all
want to be out there and not have a producer
that is singing and dancing all up in your videos
and being like all in trying to make himself part
of the show. Right, then come over to death row, right,
and this was like a big This was when Snoop
got involved. There was also a moment just before that,
maybe it was right after I forget where Diddy and
(23:12):
Shug were in a strip club in Atlanta and Shug's
best friend. That was one of the times you were
talking about Shugar's best friend got shot and killed in
the parking lot or whatever after that alternate. So up
until Tupac getting shot, there's multiple deaths that have already happened. Like,
this is a back and forth thing that's kind of
been going on, and they've been antagonizing. But it is
(23:35):
Tupac and Biggie verbally in the public, right, But this
is a sug Diddy situation. Yeah, this is their egos
that are bleeding down into their artists, that are fighting
against each other. Because Biggie and Tupac are best friends
at one point, well not best friends, but they are
(23:55):
good friends at one point in time. This is like
an important like part to understand. Yeah, Biggie used to
sleep on Tupac's couch. Tupac's acting and like starting out
his career he's getting like his first records and everything.
He's starting to have success. Before Biggie Biggi's sleeping on
his couch. Biggie is his friend. So Tupac comes to
New York to record at Quad Studios. This is like
(24:16):
the big inciting incident before the Source Awards thing. Tupac
comes to New York. He's recording in Quad Studios. He
comes down to the lobby. Biggie and Diddy are there
as well. That same night he comes down to the lobby,
he gets shot and robbed in the lobby.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Right, and this is New York lobby. It's it's ten
feet there's a security guy there. It's like, you know,
it's a So he gets shot in that lobby and
he immediately blames Biggie.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Well, and there's for selling him out, and there's I
mean yeah, and there's also like it's it's worth Biggie
and Puffy are in the studio right at this at
the top, like, and he is the only it's a
quote unquote robbery, but he is the only one who
gets shot.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, yes, he's the only one that gets shot. And
like it's been dramatized in a lot of like you know,
biopics and everything, but it's a non descript place. Like
I've been to Quad Studios before I recorded there. It's
a pretty non descript place. It's not like a flashy
studio like in La You can see that a lot
of the studios, you know, a lot of them are
kind of like nonscript but but you can like they
(25:17):
have signs or whatever. Quad Studios has no sign. Quad
Studios is not like an accident where you just stumble
in and shoot somebody. Yeah, yeah, no, you have to
know somebody is there. It's on like the thirteenth floor
or some shit.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, he wasn't like on the street, and it was
a crime of opportunity, right, Like the fact that he's like,
what this pad do have been them? Is not not
paranoia or whatever? Ruling yes, yeah, And so that builds
up Tupac.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Actually, right after that shooting, he goes to jail for
sexual assault, spend some time in jail, and that's when
Biggie's career grows gets all big, and he comes out
of jail to see Biggie now succeeding like fully and
also feeling that hatred and that that you know, like
they were involved in this somehow of me getting shot
(26:03):
becomes incredibly paranoid. This is when the Tupac switch really
goes to the gangster shit.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, you know, and he starts and putting out songs
insulting Biggie and bad boy rap exactly exists.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
And again, while he's in jail, Biggie puts out who's shots.
I think he was in jail away. I might be
missing some of this up because also I am an
unreliable But while he's in jail, Biggie puts out who
shot you? Which seems like a direct attack on Tupac.
Who's shot YOUA is like a pretty.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
It's a pretty funny thing to do.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah, when you're wondering who's shot and.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Somebody puts out a song, it's the if I did
it of gangster rap.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yes, it really is, and like and so Tupac's like, okay,
well then he no, and this escalates to a massive,
massive battle between East Coast and West and.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
We are going to talk more about that. But you
know what, never shot Tupac. The best of my knowledge,
I can't really prove this, but it's unlikely.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Our products and sponsor yea and and sponsors, Yeah, products
are the guys, the guys that give us the money.
It's doing stuff very unlikely that they did.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah. Yeah, although although unless it's.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
An yeah, you might get it.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah starts buying podcast space and we're back. So in
September of nineteen ninety five, there's another you know chapter
in this escalating battle. Witnesses say that they see Diddy's
bodyguard get into an argument at an Atlantic club with
(27:38):
a guy named Jai Hassan Jamal Roblez, a member of
Death Rows who's like a death Row guy, right, and
then after that argument, Roblez is shot and killed. And
it's one of those like, well, he was having an
argument with Combs's bodyguard who's a shooter, and then he
gets shot, right.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Turns out people with guns are willing to use this.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And by the way, Combs's bodyguard, who probably Roblez, gets
shot himself years later in Atlanta. You know, not a
long life.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Like I said, this is this is a back and
forth kind of situation for a long time. It's like
it mirrors what is going on because these are people
who are also gang relating in all these situations. It's
a lot of bloods versus crypt situation. This is the
early nineties. This is actually a thing that's going on
in the.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
World is tightened, the organized crime part of it and.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
The mob pirus in California and the and the crypts
in Los Angeles and Crenshaw. It's like this is all
happening at the same time.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Diddy is not a guy who comes out of gang life,
but he is now involved in organized crime, right, because
that's just.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
One of the big implications for Diddy being involved in
Tupac's death is that he was hiring.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Keep Yeah, we'll be talking about that, right.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
So it's like we get into this he is associated
heavily with other gang members. It's a bit like the
Rolling Stones Hell's angel Ship where it's like, who do
you hire to protect you in your territory? Don't hire
the people who are strong there, You don't.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
You're not saying have that, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
And even to this day, you know, I've toured with
some big acts. I've toured with, you know, jay Z
and pusha T. I've toured with a lot of like
mid level like rappers, VIC Mensa and id K, like
all sorts of stuff like that. Even to this day,
when you go to a town, a city, you check
in with the guy there on the rap tours, you
(29:25):
check in with the j princes, you check in with
the people that are the guy in that town out
of respect, out of whatever, but like you make sure
that you are talking to those people. So this is
happening now, make no mistake that was there are people
that were in charge in those cities that were heavily
(29:46):
like involved in the responsibility around protecting those incidences from happening. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Well, podcasting works the same way. You know when the
Last podcast on the Last Guys when they tour in Portland,
you know, they give Sophie and I down, you know,
the pod Save Guys. When I go to d C.
You know, fucking they'll uh the Last the last if
you don't call them.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, you know, and I understand that.
You know, It's like it's the hard business. Similar. Yeah,
the knitting circles are actually very similar as well.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Sophie just put out a hit on
I'm really bad at actually knowing other people in the
podcast business. I was gonna say, Sarah Marshall that y'all
are real life from No, absolutely not. I'm going I'm
going to Chicago. I gotta call the knowledge fight guys.
Make sure they don't fucking put one in me at
the airport. Oh man. So, and it's also worth noting,
(30:44):
as we say people are dying, Combs is ordering hits, right.
I can't say that to a point of legal certainty.
The ordering hits.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
The implication is strong that people are being directed to
execute other people on this. You know. Yeah, bye Sean. First.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I might not have said that a few months ago,
but now that he's in jail, I feel confident he's
not going to assume me for defamation. Yeah, he's definitely
had people killed. Yeah. Yeah. So it is also and
I should you know, we're talking about this feud, and
we will get back to this East coast West coast feud.
I should note here it is around this time in
nineteen ninety three or nineteen ninety four. I think the
(31:25):
timeline's a little bit murky. The person may not remember precisely,
because that's the way trauma works. That Sean Combs is
accused of committing his second rape that we know of,
Lisa Gardner, who was sixteen years old at the time.
He is in his twenties. She is a child says
that she met Colmebs and Aaron Hall at an album
(31:45):
release in New York. She alleges that Colmes coerced her
into having sex, and then Hall assaulted her, and then
Diddy rapes her, and then Diddy and Hall rape her
fifteen year old friend Monica Chase. So he and his
friend Aaron Hall coerce and rape two underage people, one
(32:06):
of whom is fifteen, one of whom is sixteen. The
day after the assault, Combs comes to her house, she says,
and chokes her until she passes out, and then sexually
assaults her again. This is bad stuff. This is bad,
very bad stuff. Yeah, and it's one of those like, yeah,
ordering hits is bad too, But to an extent, everyone
(32:28):
who's in this East Coast West Coast thing is agreeing,
we're going to do some dangerous shit, right.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Yes, oh yeah. Like so outside of the sex assault stuff,
that's just.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Oh no, I'm.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Just like I can't.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Oh my god, you gotta use this. It's the only
thing that you can do after talking about something that horrible.
It's necessary.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Oh no. But it's like it's like that's willing participants stuff,
not the sex assaults of the gang stuff. This is
willing participant stuff. So it's like it's a lot easier
to sit back and be But like the sex assault
stuff happening co currently, it's like, it's that what we
were talking about. It is like it's covering up almost
or being covered up by the gang stuff. It's like
(33:16):
we're over here thinking about East Coast West Coast war.
He's raping girls. Like it's like that's that's the thing
that likes.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, It's like it's like there's one side where it's like, well,
this is like a willing participant situation. I mean, obviously
I'm not trying to say everybody that's hurt by gang
violence is a willing but the yeah, yes, it's like
between these two guys, they are fighting each other. They
are fighting each other, They're causing the country to fight
each other. Like there this is a thing that's like
escalating violence amongst people in gangs. You know. It's like,
(33:49):
but yeah, willing participants. Again, it's like there's obviously collateral
damage is obviously bad shit. But but the other side
of this, where it's like sexual assault stuff, it's like, damn, dude,
like you don't even get that shit. To the surface
because there's people dying.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Right, and everyone's paying attention to the glamorous gang fight stuff, right,
and this is happening the whole time that's going down.
Also in nineteen ninety four, the same year, probably Comb's
allegedly met and raped a woman named April Lampros. She
claims that he started it by telling her he wanted
to be her mentor, he love bombed her, and once
they were dating, he ordered to keep the relationship secret
(34:24):
and started beating her. Lampros later alleged that Combs forced
her and his partner at the time is romantic partner
kim Porter, to take MDMA and then force them to
have sex while he watched. She attempted to cut off
contact with him, but he threatened her, including with revenge porn,
so she keeps going for a while. This would have
been a thing that would have looked like they were
(34:46):
dating from the outside, but a big part of it
is that he is violent and if she leaves, he's
going to post videos of them having you know of yeah,
you know so.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
And this is all a recurring business and all the stuff.
It's like he took that that one playbook and just
ran with it, play the hits every single time. He
just kept going with it because like he knew that
there is a there and there is a very truthful
element to the power of influence like that you can
have by by just being who you are and being
a big deal. And it's scary because you think, especially
(35:18):
with people like Diddy, where they actively know that they
are untouchable. Yeah, they actively know that they're untouchable and
that they can do whatever they want.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
And these are like, these are the two cases we
have from the fucking the war years, right, these aren't
the only two. Like, again important, that's not a singular
event type. This is a pattern that he has and
he is engaging in this pattern regularly for basically like
most of the time you and I have been alive.
That's the kind of bastard we're talking about it.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
I was five when he started, Yeah, right, that was three. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
In September of nineteen ninety six, Tupac was gunned down
in a drive by shooting in Las Vegas. Six months
after that, Biggie is killed they drive by in Los Angeles.
No one was officially convicted by their murder, but we
at this point also pretty much know who did both.
Biggie was very likely gunned down by a guy named Pouci,
So you can imagine is the character from the Simpsons
(36:13):
if you like.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
And he's gonna at the end of it.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
He is.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Here's the toughest part. Again, again, unreliable narrators, right. Also,
every single one of these people die, every single one
of them gets shot in an early death, or Leido Anderson,
who was the likely killer of Tupac, also ended early.
Keithy D is the only one that's stuck around.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
For amazing makes it You never think it's gonna be,
but it is.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Keithy D sticks around and he is as unreliable as
they come, just because of who he is as a person.
It is all it's braggadocious shit. It's all about like
talking about I who was involved in this thing? It
is definitely he was involved. Yeah he was in the
right places. But there's a lot of like you know,
it's even that way with Suge Knight, where it's like
Suge Knight is bragging about a lot of this stuff
(37:05):
and trying to like elevate and you don't get a
complete narrative because nobody is ever gonna tell the truth.
Right right, and as far as the evidence points yeah, Poochie.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
And also clarify here you will find other theories. There
are people who say, no, it wasn't Poochi, it was
this other person that killed Biggie, and the same is
true with Tupac. I'm going with like the likeliest version
of the story. This is not a litigate who killed Tupac?
Podcast right, there's literally podcasts, strong opinions, nine biographies, there's bios,
(37:41):
there's there's so many things. I've got to work in
theory that it was in fact Bernie Sanders who dropped
to damnit, I.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Was gonna make that joke. I was gonna say this.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Sanders.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
I was ready, damn it. I was gonna make that
joke because I knew it was going to be a
deep cut that like the real lovers of the pot,
he'd be like, oh shit, he's one of us.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah. So, as you noted, Tupac was almost certainly killed
by Dwayne Keefey d Davis, who was finally arrested last
year for the murder. He had been made a police
informant in two thousand and nine after an arrest for
drug trafficking. This is like a lot of people. He
is not super well informed about how the legal system works,
(38:25):
and he believed himself immune to prosecution and admitted to
killing Tupac in a drive by in nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
And all right, so heavily believe So the breakdown of
this story, I'll try and get through really quick. But basically,
it was a Tyson fight in Las Vegas. Tupac is
there with his girlfriend and Suge Knight. He goes because
he actually wrote a song for Mike Tyson's walking. He
wrote like a rap song from Mike Tyson and it's like,
it's funny, you should listen to it, but it's, you know,
(38:52):
a Tupac. So he's there and he's watching the fight.
And then after the fight he sees a guy, Orlando Anderson,
who just weeks prior had taken somebody down and stolen
their chain. This is a big deal at this time.
You have a chain that says death row on it.
Suge Knight only gives those to the closest of associate cinema.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Again, podcasting works the same way. Exactly, I'm gonna come
out blast it.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah, Orlando Anderson was involved in that. Tupac sees him
right after the Tyson fight, he beats the shit out
of him in a lobby and then goes back to
his place. And then Sugar and Tupac are gonna go
to an after party. They start driving down the street.
Orlando Anderson happens to be Keithy D's nephew, right, and
they are in a car together driving down the street,
(39:40):
and Orlando and keify. Depending on which narrator you believe
one of them definitely plug Tupac. Now in one of
the greatest moments in Tupac history, in all history, fuck it.
The cop comes up to Tupac and he says, who
shot you? Two bucks is fuck you? Because even in
(40:06):
death he kept it real. It is one of my
favorite Those were like his last words. That was his
last words, was saying fuck you to him.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
He's a literal Johnny tight lips character. Yeah you shut
I ain't saying nothing.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
I say yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Would tell the doctor tell him to a second exactly, literally,
like who shot you?
Speaker 3 (40:32):
He knows who shot him. He just beat that guy
up ten fucking minutes ago. You know. He's like, no, man,
fuck yourselves.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Speaking of shooting people. Don't do that. Listen to these ads.
We are.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Bah no now man, Shane so much Shane.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Fuck so Tupac. We're talking about Tupac who was almost
certainly killed by Dwayne Keefe D Davis. So Davis, while
believing himself immune to prosecution, admits to killing Tupac in
nineteen ninety six. This is much more recently. He just
got arrested, I think last year. And he also claims,
while he again believed himself immune, that did he offered
(41:27):
him a million dollars to kill Tupac and paid that
fee to a different South Side Crips member to do
the job.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
And he did not get that money ever.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
No, Wow, he got fucked over by a fucking did.
He's not a man of his word, man.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
This guy. No. So. One of the things, so Keithy
D had actually been a security guard for Puffy for
a while and like and that's how that link had
been established, you know. One of the things that's like
there's parts of this whole story that you have to
kind of take with like a bit of like I
don't think Keithy D was actively like seeking out Tupac
or anything. I think there's a situation where if Puffy
(42:09):
was involved in this whole situation the way that it
has been accused. I think he did what they say
he did, which is he put a word out. The
word is, if you kill Tupac, I give you a
million dollars. Right. And then I think keify D and
Orlando Anderson happened to be in the right place at
the right time, right. They they were at the right
(42:30):
place at the right time, they were connected in the
right situation that it happened that they were like, we
know where this motherfucker is. We are here right now,
Let's do this shit and we'll try and collect on
this later. And I think probably, although I don't think
it was a million dollars right this. I could be
wrong about this, but I think what it was actually
transferred was like two hundred thousand or something like that.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
This is what keify D says, right. I'm not saying
this is the literal amounts or how it actually right opened.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Right. So I think that that's exactly like I think
it got transferred. I think people didn't like the one
guy definitely pocketed that money, or according to the story,
pocketed that money. The in between guy pocketed that money
and was like okay, bitch. But I think that. You know, again,
unreliable narration in this whole story, but there's some I
don't think it was intentional, is my point, that they
(43:20):
were trying out at that moment to kill Tupac. They
didn't go to Vegas with the intent of killing Tupac.
I think they went to Vegas to see a fight,
and yeah, there was an incident and then it just
turned up and it was a perfect time, you know. Yeah,
it seems more like that than it was a premeditated
situation of they're out there looking to kill Tupac, like
they're on the street ready to do it, Like Biggie
(43:42):
saw Keithy and was like, I will give you this money,
go kill him now, and he went there directly. I
think it was a crime of convenience more.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that seems likely to me. I don't
know what happened. And again when I was saying this
is what this guy says, I'm not saying this is
literally what happened. This is a dude bowshitting to the
cops how he thinks he's im mute. So the cops
had him reach out to the guy that he said
actually got paid for the job, and to Ditty basically
trying to get ditty on a wire, being like, yeah,
(44:09):
killing Tupac was rad right, I don't think that worked.
Sean is not that dumb, and he has.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
He has notoriously been very good about not talking to
the wrong people.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yes, you know, and he has not been charged with this.
I don't know that he ever will. But prosecutors, summarizing
one of the interviews with KFD and court documents wrote,
and this is from right after Tupac's death, Sean Combs
reaches out to defendant wondering if Southside crips were responsible
for Shakur's death by asking, is that us defendant beaming
with pride? Answers yes, And that is probably how it
(44:40):
went down, because it often these things are not like
I ordered to hit and then he was shot. It
was more I made it known and I spread some
money around that like I wanted someone to take a
shot at this guy, but like other people could have
done it, like I don't know, you know, this is
what I'm.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Talking about, the clout industry of this because it is
part entertainment industry, it's part it's part male ego, and
like especially at this time, like the way that the
rap industry was was like very like strong, like male
ego centric type stuff. You know. It was like Tupac
literally the beef between him and Biggie, like you know,
Biggie made hushatcha and he responded. Tupac responded with saying,
(45:16):
you claim to be a player, but I fucked your wife,
you know, like he Yeah, he came back with what
at that time was considered the most and the rumors
around him and faith Hill actually having you know, a relationship.
We're certainly like that's real shit. You know, like this
is a real like manly type fight. You know, this
is what they're fighting about, these chauvinistic type concepts.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
No, I mean it's exactly like I put two bullets
in Dan from knowledge fight, you know, not because I
didn't like him, just because you know he was on
my turf, right, you know, he was on my turf
and he didn't call me before Jordan went to Portland.
You know, this is just the way nobody likes it.
This is just the way podcasting has to be. There's
no other way to do it, you know, Sorry, man,
there's no other way to do it. Yeah. Yeah, one
(45:59):
of the NP are guys stabbed me. You know, that's
just the way it is. One of those radio lab guys.
I'm not going to tell you which one. I don't
talk except for snitch. I'll snitch on Joe Rogan.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Yeah, let me find out some news on him.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
So anyway, not conclusive, but probably pretty safe to say.
Did he had something to do with the Tupac killing.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
At the very least he influenced it by positively putting
put that word into the hood, right, if you kill him,
there's money on it for.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Yeah, exactly. And you know, obviously, the greater crime in
this is the fan art that this whole tragic rivalry
has inspired it. I'm speaking specifically. I wrote this episode
listening to a bunch of Tupac and Biggie socks, and
while I was, you know, YouTube does its thing, and
it took me to a playlist some DJ had made
that was like Tupac and Biggie songs called Biggie Versus Tupac.
(46:52):
It has nothing to do with the story, but whoever
made it did a photo shop that Sophie's going to
show you, and it's supposed to be like split down
the middle, Tupac space and Biggie's face by side, but
the way they did it, it just looks like Tupac
had a stroke. Yeah, so to show it off.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Okay, I got it stroked down.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Like Biggie's got kind of those eyes. Not a successful
photo shop, my man. I'm sorry, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Here's the thing, man, just like you know, just like
nw A, you know, the largest consumers of this East Coast,
West Coast rap suburban white kids. You know. It's like,
and this is true with even today, like you get
into like the Travis Scott stuff, you get into like
any wrap that's like, you know, it is largely consumed
by suburban white kids who also I'm sorry, guys, like
(47:53):
you know, same team or whatever, but you guys could
be some of the dumbest corny as people that exist
on the planet. Like that is pretty brutal, man.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
But yeah, the doubt, like the as a suburban white
kid who was listening to fucking Biggie when I was fifty.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, me too, Sorry, guys, Yeah, we just weren't really
nailing it.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
I'm gonna be a gangster one day, Plano fucking Tach. God,
that was so funny. All the kids who would pretend
to be fucking gangsters.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Oh my god, dude. It is the large consumer of yeah, yeah, yeah,
of that bee. And also even today we're still sitting
with this, the Kendrick Drake thing right now that is
going on. I don't know how plugged in you are
to this.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
I've tried to tell you.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
It seems Yeah, it seems largely egged on by like
suburban white populace.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
No, honestly, I'm considering taking some shots at Drake. This
seems like the time to do it.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
You know. Yeah, he's low, he's low. You can really
get some in and nobody can say anything. This is
gonna be punching down, punching down on Drake with whatever
streams on spots.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah. So Sean Puffy Combs at this point has helped
it orchestraight Half a Coast's campaign of assassinations that led
to the deaths of two of the greatest rappers of
all time and also some other people. This was a
tough period for Diddy, though, because after Biggie dies, he's
successfully gotten rid of one of his major competitors at
the cost of losing his own golden goose.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Sort of, sort of, sort of. He waited a whole
two weeks to release this. That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah,
So he releases his first hit single in January of
nineteen ninety seven. An album follows in July, which includes
a touching tribute to Biggie titled I'll Be Missing You.
That might as well be titled I'll be Cashing in
on your Death. Although the complaint that you're gonna get
(49:44):
from this, people are gonna be like, but he he
never cleared the sample right from Sting?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Right, yeah, he samples Stings every move you take, right something, Yeah, yeah,
the greatest crime he.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
Never clears it, and he to this day, like Sting,
collects a pretty big amount of cash off of that. However,
don't also forget that this is a time in the
world where appearances pay, radio play pays, like everything pays.
This isn't Spotify era, where like, you know, the song
being everywhere in the entire world doesn't give you any
(50:15):
money even though you're not getting any publishing off of it, because, yeah,
when you record it yourself, you own that. That's the
master recording, You own your version of it. Yeah, for
certain things, right, publishing is one thing they can take
all the publishing, and you still make money off of
that song because it plays places.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
So it's not like it's not like he made no
money off of that. I just know, like people are
going but he didn't cash in on that because can
you know, Yeah, no, it's like there's still money to
be made, Especially in the nineties, there was still a
lot of money to be made off of having a
number one song in the country.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
This is the first rap single to debut at number
one on the Billboard Top one hundred. Like, he makes
a lot of money as a result.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
Everybody knows this song comes out at the VMA's dancing
in a white suit like like he it was actually iconic.
It's actually I mean yeah, yeah, the Biggie memorial in
the background, his dead.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
Friend's huge face. Is he just fucking cash register sounds
going on immediately.
Speaker 3 (51:16):
And there is also real quick just to backpedal a second,
there is a lot of talk about Biggie wanting to
leave Puffy's label before this happens. There is interviews with
tons of people, again unreliable narrator type stuff, but there
is a lot of interviews with people saying that Biggie
(51:37):
wanted out of his deal with bad Boy because he
felt like Puffy was taking advantage of him. He felt
like he wasn't getting what he should from his music,
that he wasn't getting like I think at the time,
like he was worth like maybe twenty million dollars or
something like that, you know, but he was not like
reaping what he actually should have from nine era music.
(52:01):
You know. It's like when you had a banger in
nineties era music, you made like fifty million dollars. It
was like an insane amount of money that you could make. Like,
if you talk about nineties bands, they were selling they
were still selling physical product. It's not like now with
streaming and stuff like that. They were selling a physical product.
So if you had a platinum album in the nineties,
(52:23):
you made twenty five thirty million, if you're label didn't
screw you, if there were you know, if you weren't
getting fucked over, you made like thirty or forty million dollars,
like you made in a tremendous amount of money. There's
a lot of there's a lot of conversation about Biggie
having known that prior to his death, which also leads
to the implication that he may have actually been involved
(52:46):
in yeah own death.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Yeah, And we're largely just staying away from that because
it's it's not provable and the stuff that's provable is
for shit honestly a lot.
Speaker 3 (52:54):
Worse again, very unreliable narrators everywhere. But it should at
least be known that there is the theory out there
in the world that that is something that goes on.
You know, that that happened and that was what he
was part of with that.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Well, that's going to do it for part two. Will
you got anything to plug before we roll out?
Speaker 3 (53:13):
Man? I have podcasts if you are a nerd and
you like audio stuff but not nerdy audio stuff. I
have a podcast called that Sounds About Right with my
friend Shane Lance, who is a polar opposite of me
as a human. He's very Christian, very positive human being,
and I am divorced three times, so we make a
(53:34):
good pair and we talk about cool audio stuff, about
our own careers and a little inspirational. I mean, it's
called That Sounds About Right. I also am found all
over the internet on things from YouTube to TikTok under
Greasy Will, Greasywill Music, Greezy, I'm easy to find a
z and only one l on.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Will Yeah check him out and uh check me out
on Blue Sky, and I write, ok, and check out
our other podcast, Blue Sky. I am all right now, Yeah,
I'm happy you Actually you liked one of my ship
did You're a thing, and people.
Speaker 3 (54:10):
Were very excited about it.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
I don't have many followers on Blue Sky, but I
share some really dark, twisted thoughts on there, so you know,
if you're into that, you can find me there too.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
I'm sure watch will cancel himself and watch me cancel
myself all on Blue Sky. All right, Well that's it.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool
Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the
Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday
and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash
(54:53):
at Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards News
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Robert Evans
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