The Second Democratic Debate: Too Many Jebs

Robert is joined by Katy Stoll and Cody Johnston to discuss The Second Democratic Debate.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
I'm Robert Evans, and this is not an episode of
Behind the Bastards, but it's running in UH plugged into
Behind the Bastards. This is an episode of Katie uh in,
Cody and I talking about the second set of Democratic
debates as a prelude for our our election year podcast,
which will be a fun weekly podcast about the worst

(00:27):
year of all of our lives and with a title
vaguely similar to that. So the title is still in flux,
but it's going to be something like, that's gonna be
really good. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be better
than the year. It is going to be better than
the year. Anyway, here's the podcast. I have been on
a lot of planes. Robert literally got off a plane

(00:48):
and then drove to the office to drop off a
step and then drove to my house. And I don't
know when was the last time you slept well other
than my couch. Briefly, the last time I had a
full night's sleep was in Iraq, So it's been it's
been a minute. Um. I mean, I have so many
questions about that, but that's not what we're here tonight.
And we're here to talk about the debate politics. Yes, sweet,

(01:12):
best kind of politics, sexy, moist, wiry, wristle, phil Well,
I like, I'm okay with the word moist, but not
when used in the sexual connotation. Like I think moist
is a perfectly wonderful word to use when talking about
cake cake chicken. Sure, but I think in the context

(01:34):
of the other words I was saying, we were all
picturing kind of Joe Biden's wattle. Sure, that was that
what was in all's head when you said moist. I'm
almost always no, it was yeah, Cody, you just got
in last night, so you're also out of it. I'm
I've been around the longest. I've been back for a
few days, but I'm also out of it, so this

(01:55):
will be fun. So, just like the front runner of
Democratic Party, we have all been going for too long
to properly do our jobs. Today. We haven't learned. We
haven't learned a lesson from times past when it proved
to be a bad idea to go too hard. We
should have taken Elizabeth Warren up on her offer to

(02:18):
host the I know that was a real real mistake.
If we're lucky, she'll call in um like she does
with her donor calls. But let's talk about the debates,
you guys. That's what we're here, that's the magic that
we're here to discuss. Um. Who did you come away

(02:38):
from liking? Who surprised you all of that? I mean,
Corey Booker had some great moments. Honestly, truly not a
big Corey Booker fan, but he has some really solid
He's a good he's a good debater. He surprised me tonight.
I was really impressed with him all evening long. I was.
I guess I wasn't. I mean, loved what jans Lee
said about climate change. I'm glad he's doing what he's think.

(02:59):
If he wasn't there, they wouldn't have talked about climate
change nearly enough. In some cases, probably not at all.
I think of all of the people on that stage,
he might be the only one doing like a kind
of noble thing, which is just like, well, I'm just
going to get up there and shoutow about the planets. Yeah, absolutely,
A little more a more focused Mike Grivel. Yeah, like

(03:20):
he knows that he's not winning. He's there to specifically
talk about something, to talk about it well and hold
for a position in the cabinet so we can actually
do that work people to task, you know, like, yeah,
I would love to see him in the cabinet um.
But here's what I was frustrated by with the climate
change conversations, and that would be the moderators. I mean,
I would guess it was frustrated throughout the whole thing,

(03:43):
but specifically with climate change. This is important, and you're
up there interrupting people halfway through how they're actually explaining
what they're planning to do. It makes me crazy. I think,
in before the next election, if there are more elections,
we need to have an election to decide who's going
to moderate the future talking debates, because zero of the

(04:05):
people they've brought forward to so far have been any
good at it. Not very good, not very good. No. Um,
really frustrating to watch. In general, it's not hard, no,
just ask ask them questions and then if you have
to re ask the question, which they did a few times,
but also like I don't know, there are a few
times more so last night I think tonight maybe of

(04:26):
like I keep thinking of this moment where someone said
something specific about Elizabeth Warren and she was like she
literally raised her hand like She's like, I kind of please,
I need to I need to like respond to that.
That's not true. I need to respond. She kept saying that,
and they would not let her do it. They did
a couple of times, but yeah, no, I agree with
you completely. It's frustrating, especially since it takes like a

(04:47):
good fifteen minutes to even get the show started and there,
and they always end fifteen minutes early, so it's not
really a three hour debate. There's twenty two people. There's
also go a lot to like, um, like, they'll go
to Yang way too well, So I think it's frustrating
when they go to people like Yang and like even

(05:07):
Insley and they give them like fifteen seconds they really like,
you can tell that they have way less time to
even respond or or answer direct questions. Is that's frustrating to, like,
if you're gonna have twenty people on stage, give them
the time that they need, you know, Yeah, yeah, I
do agree. Who else impressed you in a surprising way?

(05:28):
In a surprising way? Well, okay, so let's talk about
Marian Williamson. I mean, because I mean I tweeted about this.
I don't think anybody thinks that I would vote for her.
I do not consider her a serious candidate. I have
great issues with things she's said and done in the past,
but I did appreciate a lot of the stuff she

(05:50):
set up there. Uh, the least important of which was
her specifically saying like, I'm starting to think that some
of you people on stage aren't actually Democrats. I was like, yeah, yeah,
it was really important to say that someone actually said that. Well,
I mean, like, yeah, no, I think it is, So
that's I I liked that. But you guys have been
talking about some of the conversation online about Marian Williamson,
so let's let's dig into that for a minute. I mean,

(06:13):
our conversation started with me saying I wouldn't I could
see her winning. Yeah, um, just because I couldn't see
Trump winning, and kind of looked at him with the
same sort of mirth that I was initially looking at
Marian Williamson with. And I don't want to I hope
that doesn't happen. She's not like pulling as well as
he is, which he pointed out Katie, but like, yeah,
he pulled really well early on. She's reaching out for

(06:38):
the same like the the mirror mirror images of the
parts of the of the liberal psyche that Trump was
reaching out, you know, for the conservative psyche, Like on
the right it's like outright fascism that he was pulling from,
and on the left it's uh space wo or bullshit,
which is like the left wing equivalent of the writes genocide. Right,

(07:01):
She's like, she's got this populist, definite message, especially when
she ends with I'm the only one that can bring
that constant cryptic references to healthcare. She's not saying what
you know, she thinks, Yeah, this is the big she's
talking about, right, and just sort of positive thinking, and
like there's you know, something can be said for the

(07:22):
value of positive thinking, but that's not why we're hearing
not much. And I there's so there and for it
from what I gather most of her career, there is
a grifting aspect to it. And part of being a
grifter is that some of the stuff you say is
really true, which is why it resonates so much. And

(07:44):
that's why sometimes during the debate last night, I was like, fuck, yeah, yes,
yeh here, yes, right, she's good sifter, but because what
she's saying is true, but there's all this stuff around it.
It's like, well, you shouldn't be the president. So when
I watched I had I had a similar I pivot
to her because we're talking about James Lee and like,
I kind of see her role on that stage is

(08:05):
in a similar but very different you know, things that
she's talking about and different things. But because I don't
take her seriously as a candidate, I just am like
appreciate somebody being up there and saying some stuff that
you're like, yeah, well someone needed to say it. Anyone
else was. She also talked about reparations, reparations of the
election stuff, and also environmental justice and brought up there's

(08:29):
something things that she brought up that no one else
up and when so we're talking about the n r
A and going back and forth about who has the
worst standing with the n r A, and she says like, yeah,
that's well and good, but you know, money and politics,
money from corporations is like the disease of this country,
and how many of these people on stage have been
taking money from corporations. I was like, fuck, man, yes,

(08:52):
please more of that kind of conversation right now. We
need people to be thinking about that, not that it's
going to change right away. But like say that on
national TV, if she didn't exist outside of the debates,
she'd be in the upper candidates for me. Yeah, if
she didn't, if the rest of her life wasn't a thing. Absolutely.

(09:13):
There's also this sort of um movement around her that
sort of started out ironic and it's sort of morphed
into more genuine. Some of it is coming from and
I was talking to this about this earlier with you,
and I still don't know exactly what my problem is
with it. But there's a lot of conservative pundits and
like these sort of truly Republicans who are really into her,

(09:39):
and it's partly ironic and it's partly genuine, but it's
all horseship, and part of it seems like they're just
trying to lift her up so they can sort of
destroy the Democratic Party in the same way that Trump did.
And part of it's like they some of her message
I think does resonate with them because it's true, but

(10:00):
ultimately they can't wait to vote for Donald Trump no
matter what. Uh So, I just I it really bothers
me that it's this mix of of irony and earnestness
and just really bullshit trolling, and it's going to happen
more and more. And I wanted to really bothers me.
It's mostly it's mostly trolling. It mostly is rolling, but

(10:23):
is there. And I think the primary person she's going
to cannibalize votes from is Andrew yang Um because I
think there's kind of the same candidate, like different shades
of the same candidate. They're talking about the same kind
of yeah yeah problems, like the deep rooted problems, and
like Andrew yang Uh, like a lot of his early

(10:43):
support was like a mix of kids wanting to just
be able to like play video games and live on
a thousand dollars a month and thinking the name yang
was funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yang Gang, perfect to go.
I'm on board Marian and her her ORB core. Yeah,
the orb core. Yeah. So I don't know, but like
what scares me about the ironic following is that it

(11:07):
has become real before, which is why we have the
president we have, and it's important to acknowledge it right now.
All she has to do is stay this good at
the Grift for six to seven months, and it's theoretically
possible that she could pick up enough of a head
of steam that there would be a point of no
return at which we all find ourselves in the situation that,

(11:28):
like the few sane Republicans found themselves inten I going like,
oh my god, we can't stop this um And again
she doesn't. She hasn't picked up yet. I doubt it's
I just I'm so worried after two thousand sixteen that
I won't say it's impossible. Yeah, but I think I
see a lot of that, and I don't think there's

(11:50):
a need to worry. I think it's good to have
her there to say the things she that she's saying,
because maybe some of the more legitimate cannics will pick
it up and be like, oh, actually, oh yeah, she's right.
I think that too now. But like Trump definitely was
pulling way better, was way more popular beforehand, and that field,
if you think about the Republican field in it was

(12:10):
pretty abysmal. Like the other person was Ted Cruz, and
we they're actually like viable candidate Jeb I ever got
none of us, None of us have forgotten Jeb. We
were frequently comparing candidates on stage to evening. There's a
lot of Jebs. There's hicken Looper, Jeb Delayney Jeb with

(12:33):
Michael Bennett. Michael Bennett, the guy whose name I forget
every every time. The other guy it's not Michael Bennett,
already forgot it. There's a nope. Yeah, the guy I
don't know, you know, the guy there were too many
white too many white people last night to keep track
of good thing. He put his glasses on. I mean seriously,
he put those glasses on to distinguish himself from all

(12:55):
the other ways from them. They're like, there are actual
candidates up there that people gravitate towards, uh way more
than they would accidentally sort of because they're real, you know.
All right, Well, I want to say right now my
most important takeaway from the night, which is my realization
that both Insley and Andrew Yang have the same rough

(13:15):
silhouette of a human shaping. They're both shaped like thumbs.
They're both thumb men. Incredibly important, and thank you for
being brave enough to share that with us, for praising
my bravery is going to be in the archives of America. Yeah,
this is for posterity, y'all. Um. I want to talk
about some more about CNN, but specifically so last night.

(13:37):
Obviously it was a gang up on Biden. But that
was mostly tonight, That's what I mean, And that was
mostly generated from people on stage coming not to look around,
but last night, so many of the questions that came
to the candidates were attacking Bernie moderators. The moderators, they

(13:58):
were like, Elizabeth Warren, you're a capitalist. Does that make
you a safer choice than Bernie? Or like, but do
you think that America is ready for do you think
that the idea of socialism makes people afraid of Sanders?
You know, what do you think about Sanders? There's plan
to go to all electric cars, and even tonight there

(14:19):
was questions about Sanders and that made me so angry
Bernie Brown now everybody, it's it's really interesting, like how
one sided the aggression from the moderators was. It was
it was like they really were just like going after

(14:40):
and it's yeah, yeah, I'm glad people didn't seem to
take the bait because it's not really super dangerous at
the stage to alienate Bernie Sanders support. And they still
they still like, you know, disagreed, and there were some
some scuffles, but like the framing was really frustrating. Katie,
I saw your tweet last year and I was like,

(15:02):
oh man, even Katie's like really pissed about this, which
like it's so it's so blatant, the bias there and
the way they're framing the questions, and then they just
do not want him to be the president. Uh yeah,
a little bit Warren too, but I think they feel
like she's a little safer and well they straight up
said that in the questions and exactly it's like like

(15:23):
they have to be heard. They're picking questions that are
shaping the narrative, like shaping how people are perceiving the candidate,
and they know it. And it was wild Hutchers. Yeah,
and they seem straight up irritated and combat of the
candidates millionaires. Everyone asking the questions, and every one of
these debates is a millionairellionaires funded by billionaires. Yeah, it's that.

(15:46):
This is one of the things that I think is
maybe awry with the situation. I wonder if maybe we
would have no problems with moderators if they just picked
a bunch of like crusty middle class political journalists have
been like fucking slinging shit, uh in the d C
Press corps for the last ten years and like had
them just get them like moderately drunk and then wired

(16:10):
on speed and let them ask whatever questions come to
mind for three hours. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's uh
the idea that they they're just like, yeah, you you,
you guys, you guys can do it. You'll ask all
the questions that are going to shape the nation and
h everybody. I mean, there's been a lot of talk
about this online. I was thinking about it last night.
I mean even I think it was Warren started calling

(16:32):
it out last night. Was how a lot of these
questions were basically Republican talking points, and it really felt
and I know that last night was supposed to be
the liberal stage when because you had you know, Warren
and there, but they were surrounded by a bunch of
people that were being pulled even further to the right
with them on stage, and it was very transparent that

(16:54):
we've got these two very different parties up there on stage,
and even the ads for it, even the ads the
moderates go after the Yeah, it was just really it
felt very very blatant in a way that it hadn't
been before. But yes, this idea that like they are
throwing conservative talking points, they're like kind of doing the
work for people, Like I don't some of that's the

(17:15):
Democratic Party. Some of that, yeah, some of it doesn't
bother me. I don't mean all of them, but just
every so often. Like the way they're framing this question
is like leading into a different kind of narrative. I think, so,
I think the man tonight so many of the people
on stage used the phrase Republican talking point. Very frustrating,
but that's because they got it from last night. They
got it from because the big applause lives and it

(17:38):
was a very it was very pointed specific example, uh,
and it made sense in the context of the conversation,
and then it caught on and then everyone's night. There
are some arguments that were made a lot last night
too that we're like, that's just something you would hear
on a panel from Fox. Like there's one one of
the guys again I can't remember his name, was like,

(17:59):
why would you say you're gonna why do you say
you're gonna pay for you know, I legal immigrants healthcare
when there are people struggling to pay for their own.
I was like, well, for all there, they won't be
struggling for their own Like the framing of that is
so on its face ridiculous and nonsense. You'd hear it
on like a Fox newspantil. But there's some times when
people are like, oh, the Republican talking points, that's Republican

(18:20):
talking point. It's okay to ask questions in that way
because they're going to have to they're going to be
facing Donald Trump, they're gonna be facing like people on
Fox News, like they're there. It's okay sometimes to phrase
questions in that way to see how they would handle it.
I completely agree. Yeah, that was the next thing out, Okay. Yeah,

(18:41):
I think tonight was like a little a little too
much like don't ask me, Yeah, that's a Republican talking point. Yeah, yeah,
I totally I hear that. Yeah. I think that whenever
you're do a debate like this, though, where you've got
you're splitting it up into two nights, the second night
is always a partly go even if unconsciously going to
be a response for the sure um and I think

(19:01):
we've seen that with both debates, Like the first night
you get a more genuine discussion of the issues, which
this was not as much of it. This was an
attack show. Tonight. I did love all of the Joe
Biden all. We can talk about some of that. Some

(19:24):
of you are What were your best Biden throwdown moments?
I mean there's lots of other stuff I wanted to
talk to. So easy on me at the beginning. Yeah,
that was sad. Joe. You've been in this game, what
fifty years? You know that's not how it works, right,
you can. I think that my favorite was Castro's some

(19:45):
of us learned from the past moment or whatever. That
was real good. That was really good. It was good.
H This isn't an attack on Joe. I mean it is,
but it's not someone attacking him, but like the book
ends of the very getting him saying go easy on me,
and then the last thing he says is, uh, if

(20:05):
you support me, go to Joe three oh three three oh,
which is not a website. He meant to say, text Joe. Uh.
He left out, but also it's supposed to be joined
and they just changed it to Joe uh with a tweet,
but it's supposed to be joined. The first thing he
says is go easy on me, and the last thing

(20:27):
he says is just he's not he's not going easy
on himself. I mean he I felt we were talking
about this earlier. I felt bad for him in the
way that like, yes, when you're watching the office, you
cringe and you feel bad to a person on up
there because he was I mean, he definitely had more
like energy, I would say than the last but he
was it wasn't yeah, but he was stuttering, he was

(20:52):
all over the place. He was not responding, he was
being I mean, watching the debate, I felt like his
debate prep with a lot of him coming in and
smiling and wasting time talking to his staffers and then
being like, don't worry, guys, I got it, you know
what I mean. Like he's like, I've been doing this
for thirty years. You know, I've lost many presidential elections.

(21:14):
His um. I really wish if I'd been a little
bit more coaching, I would have taken down a couple
of his answers and tried to diagram the actual sentences
he spoke, because they were almost always not quite nonsense,
but like not sentences, not complete thoughts coming out of
his head. Ye, like to the point where it was
concerning to me, Yeah, right, you get it, but like

(21:39):
they're not I get what you're trying to say, didn't
properly say it does not have a poker face. Whenever
somebody starts to talk to him in a way that
was aggressive, you could just see his face fall. It
was so sad. I'm so used to being respected because
no one thought he was going to run again. I know,
everybody was like, okay, well we can bear with him.

(22:00):
It was like I always felt like his heart was
breaking just a little bit every time someone started to
beat him up. Um, I'm laughing about it. The other
like him still yeah, he's still calling very well, it's unbearable. Uh.
The other moment this is I actually I really liked
the Gilip know was gabbered and Kamala When Gabbert was

(22:23):
calling Kamala out on her record, which was really important,
that was really bold, That was an important thing that
need to be talked about. Kamala just sidestep that she
only talked about She did not respond in any capacity.
She had two opportunities and she did not, which should
be enough to confirm that it's all true. You know, Yeah,

(22:44):
if you can't directly address it, then there's reason. Um
you guys, if you miss that rewatch it tearing into
Kamala's terrible record as a prosecutor. Yeah, was a pretty
sweet moment. Do you know much about it her background, Yeah,
a little bit. I mean, just uh, she was the
there was a lot of ugly stuff around, like trans

(23:05):
people and like not allowing people to transition and stuff
and and using prison labor like imprisoning uh parents for
kids truancy. I think that she specifically talked, brought up
tonight how she like blocked some evidence that would have
saved a person from death row. Yeah, she was a

(23:26):
really ugly like California as a state with a fucked
up judicial system because there's forty million people here and
she didn't make it less fucked up. So anyway, I
I really, I mean, I'm not a fan. No, she's
a monster, but I really appreciated that Ye took a

(23:49):
trip to Syria paid for by essentially a fascist, like
an actual fascist organization that was allied with the Assad
regime uh, and met with Bashar al Assad, the greatest
mass murder of our time, and then later in interviews
refused to call him a war criminal after his many

(24:12):
war crimes, and she visited after he had gassed She
like sat down with this guy after he'd gassed thousands
and thousands of thousands of people to death. Um, she
has some weird like Hindu nationalist fascist views of her own,
and like the like she she played it well when
she was like attacked for like the anti gay stuff
in the first debate, like the whole I grew up

(24:35):
and stuff, But like she came from a pretty gross
evil cult background and she has not associated herself fully
from it in her actual life. Um, there's some very
concerning things about Tulsie Gabbard's background and beliefs, not the
least of which is the fact that she was willing

(24:56):
to let a fascist group take her to go hang
with Bashar al Assad. I mean, I don't want to
tell you guys what to do, but don't vote for her. Yeah.
I'm not a big not a big tools Gabbard man,
but she kind of nailed hitting Kamala Harris. Yeah, I
know she did a good job. No one else was.
No one was going to go anywhere. Oh yeah, they
didn't want to. They didn't want to touch touch that. Um,

(25:18):
but someone had to. Yeah, it's it was a real
one of those Onion article like the worst person you know,
A great point I'm waiting for different not matchups, but like, uh,
fewer people so more people can have converted Like that
was great. I would like to see it was with
Warren and Joe Biden talk to That's all I wanted.

(25:40):
I was so mad. Although Joe Biden didn't need anybody
else gaging up on him tonight. That pants like a
fucking yeah. But I did really like um, I thought,
even though it was definitely framed by CNN terribly because
CNN sucks, uh like the progressives from the mutter It's

(26:02):
and all that kind of garbage, But it was very
cool to see Bernie and Elizabeth Warren up there together
doing that. Like they weren't throwing each other under the body.
They were backing each other up pretty well. There are
a few moments where you can see them stare at
each other and get like exchange looks like can you
believe these people? And like it was clear that they
had each other's backs um and gracefully responding so like

(26:25):
at one point, I can't think of the specific example,
but you know, a question to Elizabeth about like, well
what about this element of Bernie's plan and her being like, no,
that's not what it is this is what I voted for.
I mean, she still made it about her, but like
making it clear that like, no, we're on the same
side here, and like, you're wrong, you're misinterpreting what we
were saying. I want to talk about immigration stuff, immigrations,

(26:49):
you love immigrations stuff, because that's a big topic in
our country. In the debate, the candidates don't love immigration,
and a love of the Democratic candidates don't love immigration.
Biden wants to cherry pick races, so that I'm that
like that like breathed by and I was like, wait,
did he just say cherry pick? Like different, that's what

(27:09):
makes this strong unbelievable, bonkers and like anyone with a
PhD gets an automatic green card. I am so frustrated
and appalled by the amount of people on that stage
that just said we need to just need a new
new president in office and that all fix the kids

(27:30):
in cages. Like you know, you're you're missing the entire point.
You are not that stupid. The point of decriminalizing immigration
or illegal immigration isn't Yes, it's about getting kids out
of cages. Yes, it's about allowing people to come here
seeking asylum, but it's about protecting their human rights and

(27:51):
Castor did a great job talking about it. And also
again and he did the last time, um hammering home
that going that it's about sending a it's about creating
programs that help UH make the countries that they're leaving
safer and more productive. About I mean, did Biden really
hit that one? Like well, credit Biden repeatedly mentioned giving

(28:15):
money to these counts, but he said that that's what
he did. He said, he said that we did give
he was defending himself. We gave a lot of money.
But like also, I don't like that's great. I want
to know how that money is spent. It's not just
about because we look at Puerto Rico. Obviously that's a
part of our country technically although they can't vote for president,

(28:36):
I don't have representation, but giving money and then it's
mismanaged within that local government. So it's not just about that,
unfortunately in my perspective, and I'm hoping that's not too naive,
but like I need to hear people saying more specific
So him saying we did a good job, we gave
the money actually doesn't cut it for me. No, it
doesn't cut it. But I'm glad that the I'm glad

(28:57):
that even from Biden. Yeah, framing of we owe these
countries something like that, that's that's a positive step. Yeah,
I do agree with that. Um, but that was like
when I was watching that's that was like like the idea, Yeah,
the idea that like, well there's just to be a
new president. Yeah, and that was like but what if?
But who who after? Yeah? Well who was the president

(29:19):
after that? What? What would they what would they do?
That whole section of the debate where like everyone was
trying to explain to Joe Biden why that was a
bad idea I mentioned during reminded me of like arguments
I've had with elderly family members at like Thanksgiving, where
like all of the kids will try to be explaining
something like marijuana or like like like like why why
a reformed that every young person is behind? Like is

(29:41):
a good idea to like an elderly uncle being like
but what about this poorly thought out point? What about this? Yeah? No, no, no,
you just do this? Yeah. Then I mentioned during the debate,
I don't know if anyone ever touched on it, but like,
has anyone said that they will not only like legalize marijuana,

(30:02):
but also release everyone that's in prison for it. Nobody
said release everyone that's There was a lot of talk
about legalizing marijuana, but nobody was like, but in addition
to that, like the people that are that have been
sucked over in their life for this, Okay, waiting for that,
it'll it'll happen. Yeah, waiting for Beta will write in

(30:22):
on the skateboard. And I was about to say, we
haven't mentioned Beto things. We're all very close to being
done with Beto forever. So I already am bro Like
my god, at this point, I don't even want that,
but yeah, sure Runter said it. Maybe you'll win. He's
he he might have lost it by now. Yeah, just

(30:45):
because his campaign was so bad and it exposed him
as so weak, such a callow youth. Yeah, I mean
I truly, well, not truly, but part of me was like, oh,
I hope he uses his closing statement into exit the race.
Yeah I was. I was like, I could just see
that happening right now. Similarly, I was I'm waiting for

(31:06):
anyone on stage because like obviously a lot of people
they're up there, like I'm just here for like maybe
I'll get a cabinet position. I'll probably write a book
next year about this whole thing. Maryanne Williams, Oh, for sure,
that's what she's doing. But like waiting for someone be like,
if I'm elected, I will abolish the presidency. Like in
the context of that conversation was like, well, if the
president changes, then everything will be good. It's like, well, no,
maybe we just shouldn't have that. Sure, you know, I

(31:29):
weren't they debating having three presidents or something when the
Founding Fathers were framing the constition. Yeah, I think that's
actually yeah, too bad that didn't happen. And they also
what suggested, like re writing a constitution every seventeen years.
So yep, no, no, Cody, don't you know everything they

(31:51):
wrote back then is the way it has to be forever. Okay,
that makes sense. That's that's what our Founding fathers and
envisioned when they created a system that specifically included ways
to alter the Constitution. Yeah, they were hellas, Like the
things that I know about time the world, the world
stays the same, and so the rules should say the same.
And the thing that I know about the Founding Fathers

(32:12):
is that they all agreed a dent on everything that
they did. Really, they were all really good people, all
really good people with the same attitudes towards the rights
of human beings and who counted as a huge Yeah yeah,
I love that about them. I love that. I like how, yeah,
how the best idea for a government was thought up

(32:34):
years ago. We're done was thought up by people who
didn't know how to make sure the water they drank
didn't make them poop themselves, and who statistically a significant
amount of these guys died from pooping themselves to death,
Like what, we're probably least. There were a lot of

(32:56):
dumb questions and both nights and Bernie thinks this, why
is that insane? An evening I jotted down tonight. I
don't know why. In hindsight, maybe it's not as dumb,
but I rolled my eyes, like who's the best candidate
to heal the racial divide in America? Because I don't
think that a candidate, a single candidate can do that.

(33:17):
I don't like. I mean, it just was like such
an inane like, let's actually talk about something more specific
than than something. How are you going to fix it all?
How are you going to fix two and fifty years
of institutionalized races, and although I think Marianne has the
best discussion of yeah yeah she reparations being taught, Yeah,

(33:41):
that's what, and the environmental justice. I think you're like
because my next question was like, this is done, But
who do you guys think? I was like, um, so
she was intersectional feminist and I'm not gonna you know,
I don't think, like you know, Center Booker and Harris
that like should have the responsibility to this. If I'm

(34:01):
like the president, I'll explain to all the white women
why they have privilege. I was like, are you saying
that you should do it because you're well, she's saying
like she doesn't want. Well, what she was actually saying,
I mean, yeah, becau's what she's saying. She's being intersecual.
She's saying, like white women, it's our job to like also, yeah, no,

(34:22):
I get it. But like just it seemed like framed
like I'll do it. I'll talk to us like I
got this. Ya had two or three really good answers
prepared that she was really comfortable with that she delivered well,
and everything else, even if the meat of what she
was saying was good, was very awkward. I think just

(34:42):
because she's not a good think on her feet. She's not.
She's not like Corey Booker. I don't think I had
everything tried out ahead of time. I think he's just
got one of those kind of brains. Yeah, he's very
good at really impressed me tonight. Yeah, Carla was very
low energy to night. She seems very low energy. Harrison,

(35:04):
low energy Harrison and sleepy, sleepy, sleepy Michael Bennett. He
dead looks sleepy. What the fun? Why is Michael Benn?
I want to spend a hot second talking about Steve Bullock,
because that's the guy I was thinking, that's the fourth jobs.
He is, you know, he is um young Bradley Whitford

(35:28):
and get out like there's something everything about him, the
way he talks, he's got his rows. He knew he
made the fundraise. He was a full quarter of the
candidates in these two nights were jeb Oh yeah, it's um.
He was more entertaining than Jeb Um, but only because

(35:48):
he's so laughful. He looks like I can see him
in the eighties. I can see him being that little
punk and his pull up his face, his face is
Bullock and Bennett. Well, that's why Bullock. It sounds like
a fucking cop drama that would have gotten canceled nine
episodes in. Um, and we haven't talked about Warren at all.

(36:09):
Here's the thing about a right, show me his picture,
because I have forgotten that motherfucker's face, the bullet Bennett.
I remember, Oh that's Bullet Bennett's the one who looks
like a like a Charles Schultz Raw. Yeah, yeah, he
looks like it. Then it looks like from kind of
bunk pool. Then it looks like Charlie Brown all grown up. Um,

(36:35):
it looks like Charlie Brown who never got over Snoopy's
death and hasn't been able to pet another dog since
Snoopy died. Well, yeah, all dogs go to heaven of course.
Um yeah, we could lose. We could lose the JEBS.
I wouldn't want to lose Insley. Um, which I think
I think he's he was sort of lumped in with
the JEBS first, get no, but I think he has

(36:58):
a legitimately noble mission of shouting at about climate change.
Man like he's actually like he's engaging to listen to,
Like he's a good speaker. I wouldn't put him in
the class of job for many reasons. I had some
good stuff to say about white nationalism and the threats there,
and which as the governor of Washington, he fucking off. Yeah,
he should probably be a little familiar with that. I

(37:25):
thought Mike Gravel got enough donors to be on the stage.
I believe he did. What happened. I was going to say,
like a bottle of rum happened. Mill just didn't pick
up drink the teens. And I know it wouldn't be

(37:46):
a cell phone ringing. It would be an old school
pages the side of a desk, buzzing until it fell
into the trap by pager. I well, I just want
to paging the Pentagon papers. I was like, we didn't
quite finish. I want to just bring up real quick
something that I about selar rights stuff that Biden's whole

(38:07):
defense of his civil rights record was basically like, well
Obama hired me an Obama, Obama was black. It was literally,
I have a black friend and he's the was shocking.
I was like, that's what you have to say, Broma,
So maybe he is the one that's best suited to
heal our racially have a black friend, didn't someone say

(38:29):
like Biden why do you always take credit for the
Obama thing? And rejected that, like the Obama things you
don't like. Someone said that, right, yeah, unless you said
it as something that it's not. I believe it might
have been. My guide is saying Corey Booker said it,

(38:51):
but I don't know if it was. Mia is so smart.
We haven't talked at all about Elizabeth Warren tonight. We
also haven't talked about Booker's brother, carry Booker weird looking. Okay,
now I've got a Google carry Book looks like a
photo negative of his brother, and it's unsettling. Um, is
he running for president? No? Okay, it's just oh that's

(39:16):
to me, like, um, what is it Steph Curry and
Steph Carry? You know, like Steph Curry's brother has the
same name as him. Um, sorry, but yeah, Elizabeth Warren.
But let's talk about Elizabeth Warren. She did great. She
did great. She always does great, you guys, very earnest
in coachingly melted. She's also so good for swooning right now,

(39:42):
her and Bernie just like I can saying things that
were accurate. I mean, like, that was so nice to see.
I know people are like worried about like if you
go too far left, and I'm honor with the independence,
I really like fascist, Like, are you gonna tell me
we can't elect Elizabeth Warren, who in any sane country

(40:06):
would be like a slightly left of center Yes, yeah, yeah, no,
it's it's nonsense, and the way it's framed is very,
very frustrating. But they're just so good together. Yeah. I
want to see them run a presidential campaign, and I
don't care who's in whose VP. Bernie would be VP.

(40:29):
I think I think Bernie would definitely choose her as
his VP. I don't know if Elieth Warren would pick him.
I think she would probably be pressured by the Democratic
Party to pick somebody else. I want Warren Bernie. I'm
I'm fine either way as long as long as one
of them is the presidential nominee. Like, I don't know,
I'd be fought with Castro as a presidential nominee and

(40:50):
fucking Sanders or Warren as his VP. Two Like maybe
that's the smarter play, oh for me would be I
could see Astro being VP. I don't see him as president.
I think he might be a fucking hell of a
barn stormer. I don't know that he's gotten the chance
to like do that yet. Um, but I think he

(41:14):
might have the potential to run that kind of a campaign.
And even though he's more of a moderate, I don't
know like that. That's not my suggestion or hope, but
I could see him being a really solid presidential king.
I get behind Castro for sure. Um, I do. He
does speak well. And again I well, I said this
to you guys are there. I don't want to vote for.

(41:35):
I don't want Kamala to be the president. Obviously I was,
but I do really don't want. I do think it
would be so fun to see her prosecute Donald Trump
on a debate, to see her shouting at him at
a bus station when they're both like trapped on a
fil would yeah, and somebody films it on a cell
phone like that? That's what I want, Or I guess,

(41:57):
get someone in there that brings him in front of
Congress as she question him in that forum. That's what
you want to see. You want to see the impeachment, Yeah,
but I don't want to see her stopped after three minutes.
I want to see her be allowed to do it
very good at a job that I wish didn't exist,
and that shouldn't be the president. Yeah, yeah, that shouldn't
be the pipeline, the prosecutor to president pipeline. Well, are

(42:19):
there any other one of the things that you guys
did you want to talk about your takeaways from the
last couple of nights, Which one is Klobuchar. She's the
one that either looks like your mom's friend who was
trying to be cool but you didn't really want to
be around, or like maybe your freshman English teacher brown

(42:39):
here description she's a little too young to me. Yeah,
brand does description, but English teachers. She she reminds me
of a senior ap English teacher, right. She she is
the person who would like walk you through the scarlet
letter and then you're and when you don't turn something
in on time, she'd be like, I'm just so disappointed

(43:01):
in you, and you'd feel bad, and you would feel
but also that I still wouldn't read Nathaniel Hawthorne. Now
you wouldn't. And then you see her over summer at
like a liquor store and you're like, fuck, that's sad,
and she's just buying one enormous bottle of vodka. Yeah, oh,
I was going to say like rose, but sure vodka. Yeah, no,
I think she's the hard drinking kind of English teacher

(43:26):
at night. Put it played in the coconut and makes
it all up. And now you know it was written
about Kristen gillibrand presidential nominee. Um real quick to speak.
You mentioned we're mentioning teachers talking about teachers, and I
don't want to pass this by because I she she

(43:47):
said it in passing during the bait was with Warren
was talking about how um, she always wanted to be
a teacher. Um, and I just I just want only
teachers and nurses to be yeah, the country, like teachers,
nurses and er doctors. Yeah they're just like I think

(44:08):
a lot of R doctors have a drug problem. That's fine,
the f d R was drunk the whole of World
War Two. You know. She obviously worked with like special
needs kids and stuff. But I just want teachers to
run for president and to be president. And that's like
you hear that, teachers that are listening. It's one of
the reasons I really really like her is because she
has that vibe and she has that drive, and that's

(44:30):
where a lot of her well, her compassion comes from.
And a lot of also her effectiveness because teachers know
how to explain things, and so she can make a
case and like make very good. They know how to
explain things, and then they habitually look at things from
other people's perspective. Uh, not because they consider every perspective

(44:51):
equally valid, but because they're trying to understand where those
people are coming from in order to win fluid. They
know how to listen to actually listen. Yeah, um uh,
And I think she's using those skills really well. And
I just had another thought that it's gone, it's lost.
I've had too much for us. So we haven't talked
about Oh yeah, we didn't talk about him. He had

(45:12):
a good moment, but I forgot what it was because
I haven't slept in days. Uh. It wasn't the one
where he said you want to combat veteran grilling. You
don't come on a few moments like that from a
bunch of different candidates who were like, if you nominate me,
I can say this to Donald Trump on the debate stage,
like anyone can say that to him. You don't need

(45:34):
to be like I was in people a day on
Twitter say that to him. It's never made. It's like
everybody's like, I need to have that came with one
prepared sound bite of what they would say to Donald Trump,
just to remind everybody that we're not Donald Trump. We
know that. Oh deals with the warrant thing. She also
values children so much, and like it's why one of
her main things is like the childcare and like guaranteed

(45:55):
childcare and and precane all that stuff. And it's the
kind of thing where it's like, any of course, if you,
if you treat every child equally and give every single
child the opportunity that they need to thrive, then your
society in general will be so much better a few
years later because of what you've done for every single child.
And she understands that and I love her for it. Yes,

(46:17):
But anyway, Pete, Oh, you know what, Actually this I
just remembered. The worst answer I think of the debates
was actually one of castros Um, And because he's a
smooth talker, it kind of slid past. No one hit
him on it. But it was when he was talking
about Flint and he was like, when I was the
director of Health and Human Services or when I was
the director of hut UM, I uh, you know, I

(46:39):
we dealt with that, and then he kind of pivots
to the fact that like it's still not dealt with,
but like he didn't direct like it was like, yeah,
that that that was on you, like and then I
was I was also there six weeks ago. I was like,
and was it good? Why don't you fill in the blanks?
What did you do? What happened there? There's a lot

(47:00):
of glossing over yea. It was he's very like, he's
very smooth, but it was also like, yeah, you really
are someone I should be angry at over that. Last night,
the question about Flint was that it's still a problem.
Is that it's still fucked up and you didn't do
your job. Julian, It's frustrating how many people stepped sidestep

(47:22):
to questions and just notch it. And there's no moderators
never never press anybody ever. So often they would press
somebody on something, but again the moderators aren't journalists, right, Yeah,
but that's what you want. Ye can even get an
answer and be like, well, actually, as a journalist, I'm
aware that you're lying or like that you're not including

(47:42):
the full context or something. Everybody should have like a big,
long half hour chunk of time with a journalist and
the journalist the journalist should get to throw two tomatoes
like the hard green ones. Yeah, every time they lie,
whenever they choose. That'd be so satisfying. Politics be so

(48:05):
much better we have. He's he's a contender. Yeah, Yeah,
he's a contender in a way. I think that he's
going to end up governor. Three of us are not
particularly enthralled by him. I guess the reason I keep
bringing him up is that I have a couple of
friends who are not normally very politically engaged, who find
him incredibly charismatic and inspiring. And I don't get that either.

(48:27):
But I know that he has had an impact on
some people and that his rhetoric is appreciated by them. Yeah,
I don't. I don't connect with that, but I do
get it. Yeah, I don't have strong feelings about the
guy one way or the other. I think he seems
lovely that I'd love to have him as a friend,
but he's not quite my politics. Yea, I guess the

(48:47):
vibe I get great Mayor. Yeah, Also, mayor is kind
of a low rung job. It is wild to jump
from that governor makes sense. Yeah, I can't remember what
it was. He did have a couple of moments last
night that were good, um, but I can't remember what
they were specifically, And you think that I'd have written

(49:08):
it down, but I didn't. I believe he again was
confronted with talking about, you know, racial issues during the
police cos and things like that. He's not great at
actually like addressing it, not even just head on, but
in general at all. He's sort of side steps it
a lot, and it's like, you know, we all we
got problems. Well, that reminds me to talk about de

(49:32):
Blasio in that moment that way. The protesters, Yeah, yeah, yeah, chanting.
I heard that during during Biden. I believe they were
chanting the like three million, three million deportations. What they
were chanting for Biden, uh, for de Blasio and also
Booker for some reason was a fire Pentaleo. Yeah, they

(49:56):
started chanting that during but they started chanting that during Bookers.
They well they the first time you could hear it
faintly was and then they really went a whole hog
for Booker for some reason, but then kept saying Eric
Gardner really bothered me, like you've got you've got to
have that name written in front of you man and
a city burned, because like, how can you not have

(50:20):
that down? Yeah, that's nuts, um, But what was the
Blasio's response to that? It was basically like, oh, it's
the Justice depart federal the Federal Justice Department got in
his way or like was slowing it down. He didn't answer,
He didn't answer why isn't he But I believe it
was Gillibrand who said I would have fired that cop,
And I like, I like that straightforward. Those are I mean,

(50:43):
those are usually the best answers, Like even when um,
to Joe Biden's credit, Uh, I forget what the exact
question was. If it was Insley, I think asking about it, um,
and then Joe was like yes, and then then they're like,
I didn't Yes, it was getting rid of a stop
these coal Um ye yes, yeah, great. Those are the

(51:05):
like And that's what I love about Insley being up there.
He just made Joe Biden commit on stage in front
of everybody that that's something he would do. Yeah. I think,
um like justified his run for president with that moment.
Is nothing else. Who do you want to see gone
before the next debate Williamson Yang, Yeah, Beto, I don't mind.

(51:32):
So like I don't know, it's it's it's frustrating because
like the Williamson's and like Yang, the things they're talking about,
I think our issues that are important to talk about,
and if they're not there, no one is. I think
we've gotten all we can get out of them. Yeah,
that's the other toxicity. And then it's like, Okay, at
this point, we're risking getting into something dangerous happening. We're

(51:55):
going to get the political equivalent of toxic shock syndrome
if we let them there. So like, here's a pitch though,
So like those are these are people who are like
every time you speak, you're saying something that's important that
people need to hear. So what if they moderate want
of the debates instead. That's a cool idea. If the
people that aren't in the so like Williamson, will be
a moderate and Yang a moderate and they can bring

(52:16):
up these topics that are important and sort of engage
with the act like the candidates. I'm imagining Williamson grilling
Joe Biden on the medicinal uses of crystals. Oh god,
that'd be great for everybody. What a wholesome time. That
would be. What a bad time for him, that would be.
So we've we've qualified a number of candidates as Jeb's

(52:37):
and I think we're all in agreement that Beto is
not a Jeb, but is on the hierarchy of candidates.
Is Beto above a Jeb or below a Jeb based
on his inherent worth as as a candidate? Do we
do we in our heads qualify him as above sub
Jeb or or I think I think he's subjects. I
think he's a Jeb. Yeah, I'm so I am so

(53:04):
thrilled that we all agree on this that there's not
even any tension here. Subjeb no exclamation point after beato.
Subjeb is such a funny way to describe some real
I hope we can turn Jeb's name into like a
bye word for a lame politics. Oh we are, it's

(53:24):
already taken off. Yeah, by the time this a we've
already got, We've already got merch in the pipeline. He
really jebbed it. Yeah, alright, guys, thank you so much
for joining us, listening to us talk. You know what,
you know, that's what podcasts are. Last last time, I gave.

(53:46):
Last time, I gave the wrong email addresses and I
had to get two email addresses. But here's where we're
setting you. I know I biffed it, biden it. It's
worst year tips at gmail dot com? Is that better
or worse than a bunch of jebs bidening around the

(54:11):
rails have gone off of this? Where's your tips at
gmail dot com if you want to send us questions
or thoughts for our upcoming show, which we're definitely doing.
It's true once we get some sleep, and remember, be
a jeb, not a beato. At least at least be
a jet. Alright, no one wants to be a jet
at least please be a jef. You don't need No

(54:35):
patos are