July 17, 2019 • 38 mins
The reason Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield started their business is one you won't hear at any startup pitch competition in 2019. But maybe it should be. In this episode we put on our bell bottoms, go back to the 70s and share the history behind Ben & Jerry's Homemade Holdings and why doing business for the right reasons can have sweet results.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Long before it was called social entrepreneurship, before Tom's Shoes,
and even before we knew what a purpose driven life was,
there were a couple of guys who made ice cream,
made millions, and did their best to make the world
a better place. This is Visiography, the show where we
(00:30):
dive into the strange but true stories of iconic companies.
Whether they're founded by mad geniuses, brilliant visionaries, or fun
loving hippies from Vermont, they all have a past worth knowing.
I'm Dana Barrett. I'm a former tech executive and an entrepreneur,
a TV and radio host, and over the course of
my career, I've interviewed thousands of business leaders and reported
(00:51):
on the bright beginnings and massive flame outs of the
brands we know and love. Some of their stories are inspiring,
some get my blood boiling, and some are just plain weird.
Today's show, though, is all about the inspiration. So much
of the time, company histories focus on the who and
the how, But with Ben and Jerry's, I think the
(01:11):
most important part of their story is the why. Hanging
out with me as always is my millennial interpreter new
Guy Nick Why the millennial interpreter today. Well, because I
think this whole idea of including doing good in your
work is very much a concept that's been embraced by millennials.
So I'm going to need you to you know, interpret
(01:32):
for Okay, absolutely well, I'm here for you for the
good side. I appreciate that. Although I do think sometimes
you claim to not be one of the average millennials.
C Well, I think I think most of us claim
that we're not the average millennial, but at our core,
we all are kind of, you know, fun loving hippies.
I think I'm not the only one who has a
like a view of history that there's a pendulum that
kind of swings back and forth. And I think, you know,
(01:54):
Ben and Jerry were from the hippie era, which is
has a lot of parallels I think to millennials of
modern times, can't you very much very much. So it's
just you know, no, we have smartphones. They didn't have
those back then. Airpoint. I love the Ben and Jerry
story for so many reasons, not least of which is
how it ends, with them still best friends to this day,
(02:15):
still speaking out for what they believe in, still getting arrested.
The founders of Ben and Jerry's were a long way
from their Vermont ice cream factory when they found themselves
under arrest. Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield were reportedly busted
with hundreds of other protesters at the US Capital and
leaving behind an iconic brand that they can be proud of.
So how they do it, and more importantly, why did
(02:38):
they do it? I like ice cream, holt It tastes
good when days are had Anna Cone or in a dish.
This would be my only wish Vanilla Chocolate Rocky Road,
even with five albums. Jerry Greenfeld was born in nineteen
fifty one on March fourteenth, and weirdly enough, his soon
to be best friend, Ben Cohen was born just four
(02:58):
days later, on March eighteen, ninete. They met for the
first time in the seventh grade. They were in a
junior high school gym class. Now I have to admit
I have no friends left from that era in my life,
do you. I don't think many of us do. No.
I don't have any seventh grade friends I'm still in
(03:20):
contact with any more. They're still friends to this day.
But here's Jerry explaining how they met growing up in
Long Island together. We were thirteen years old. We met
in gym class, running around the track together, where we
were the two slowest, fattest kids in the class. There
was a pack of kids up in the front, there
was Ben and me in the back. The coach was
(03:40):
yelling at us, gentlemen, you've got to run the mile
and under seven minutes. If you don't, you're gonna have
to do it again. And Ben would yell back at
the coach, ge, coach, if I don't do it and
under seven minutes the first time, I'm certainly not going
to do it and under seven minutes the second time.
That was when I realized Ben was somebody I wanted
to get to know. Maks we want to be friends
(04:02):
with both of them. Actually, the two were friends from
that year in the seventh grade all the way through
high school. At the end of high school, they went
their separate ways, then dropped out of school altogether. He
tried college for a little while, but I didn't like
it and decided he'd be better off making pottery. Um
a last, he made pottery that no one wanted to buy,
so then he tried a bunch of other jobs here
(04:23):
and there, and none of which were overly successful. Meanwhile,
Jerry went off to college and he did do his
four years. He went to Oberlin and he got a
premed degree. And then this happened. I was premed. I
applied to twenty medical schools. I got rejected from twenty
medical schools. I reapplied to another twenty medical schools. I
got rejected from those twenty medical schools. I got another
(04:46):
job as a lab technician in a biochemistry research lab
because I already had experience. So that's what Ben and
I were doing. Uh, we were essentially failing at everything
we were trying to do, and so we said, why
why don't we try to get together, do something fun,
be our own bosses. They decided to get together, do
something fun and be their own bosses. That was their
(05:10):
entire Why that is not what happens in modern times.
I feel like right now, I mean, granted, this wasn't
that long ago, it was the nineteen seventies, but I
feel like now everybody is so intent on finding some
deep meaning and internal passion and making sure it's the
passion that's going to drive them through the rest of
their lives, that they don't just start something because it
(05:32):
sounds fun. Yeah, they do something and start something because
they want to make a greater difference in the world.
So it's a you know, some kind of environmental company
or or a nonprofit that does something like that. Yeah. Yeah,
And I think there's something even people who do things
just because they are going to be fun, Like maybe
don't really admit it anymore. Like if you're going to
(05:53):
Hollywood and you want to be an actor because it
seems fun, you have to say something else. I may
care about my craft or you know, like I want
to make documentaries because I want to change the way,
you know, the culture of whatever. Right, I mean, I
think we both went into radio because it's fun. Yeah, absolutely,
I mean, and you're right, it's funny you mentioned that
because I like to tell people I got into radio
(06:14):
because at some point I want to be able to
change the way people think. But you're right, in reality,
I just like talking to a microphone, right. I I agree,
like I do want to change the way people think.
But I also it's fun. It's a fun job and
there should be no shame in that. And I kind
of love that Ben and Jerry were just these two
guys who loved hanging out together. Ever since seventh grade
(06:36):
gym class. They felt like they weren't really doing well
on their own, so what if they got together and
tried to do something fun and be their own bosses.
That's a whole other reason that you know. Still many
people in modern times, I think, go into business, but
it's not again when you hear about very often, absolutely,
and it hits on that notion you said of the
(06:57):
passion and the greater causes. Sometimes if you just have
fun doing something, you can do so much more than
just what the company is. Yeah, I mean, I think
it's important to care about what you're doing, but not
necessarily the product. Like they didn't. They weren't passionate about
ice cream. They didn't. They weren't like, oh, you know
(07:17):
ice cream. It changed my mother's life. You know, she
came over from Russia back in the day, and it
was that first bowl of ice cream that made all
the difference. And that is why I'm going to start
an ice cream company. They actually chose ice cream, I
think because it was cheaper than a bagel company. Like
I'm not making that up, that's for reals, Like they
(07:38):
wanted to do bagels and then they were like ice
creams cheaper, let's just do ice cream. Weird side note
about that, Ben actually can't taste or smell anything. He
has a weird uh I think, somewhat unusual condition called
a nasma's how you saying nasmal sounds the little news
related a nasmial he has that it's a lack of
(08:01):
a sense of smell or taste, and so he was
all about just relying on the mouth feel of the
ice cream they made ultimately, and that's why they put
their trademark chunks allegedly into the ice cream for him. Wow. Well,
I like to think they did it for all of
us because even those of us who can taste, in
feel and smell everything, right, we like the chunks too. Yeah,
(08:22):
it's all about the chocolate us. My friend listen, Uh,
that was only the first part, right, they decided to
do this business. But you know, as we heard from
Jerry himself, these were guys that were not doing so well,
Like they were kind of failing at stuff. They weren't geniuses,
and they didn't have any particular insight into entrepreneurship. They
weren't coming they didn't come from you know, long line
(08:43):
of entrepreneurs or anything like that. So uh and by
the way, they didn't know how to make ice cream.
It's not like they made ice cream every summer a
camp or anything. They had no idea. Now, so they
decided they need to learn how to make ice cream
first and foremost. They did that, wait for it, by
taking a correspondence course. Do we to know what that is? No, well,
they really have no idea for real? What is what
(09:05):
is a correspondence course? Is it kind of like a
like a a post education like adult You're so cure
right now, it's just adorable. Sorry, Well, in the let
me just let me just school you right now, guy Neck.
In olden days, long long ago, when I was just
a wee lass and they didn't have a thing called
the interwebs, they had this thing called like pen and paper,
(09:28):
and you wrote to each other letters, and when you
did that, it was called correspondence. So a correspondence course
was literally a course by mail interest. Okay, so basically
this is the old school version of watching YouTube videos. Yeah,
so essentially, you you applied for this course and they
sent you information and give you instructions, and you try
(09:49):
the instructions and you fill out the answers and you
send it back and you get your certification. So they
did this correspondence course from Penn State University. Uh it
was a wait for it, five dollar correspondence course. That's
how much it cost breaking the bank. But they were
broke at the time, so they actually kind of cheated
(10:09):
and split one course and only paid two fifty each
to take the class. And that's how they learned to
make ice cream. So then they decided it was time
to go. They made their ice cream, they perfected their recipe,
and they got it how they wanted it, and they
decided they should each invest four thousand dollars to to
start their first ice cream shop. That was the plan.
(10:30):
Jerry had the four thousand. He invested it Ben the
pottery maker, who seemed to be a little bit of
the you know, more more hippie ish of the two.
Let's just put it that way. I'm not gonna say
he was lazier, Absolutely, he was a little bit more
about the peace and love and following your right. He
was a little more whips and called that's a good
way to say it. He only had two k, so
(10:53):
he had to actually borrow his other half the other
two k from his uh from his dad, which he did,
and then they took their eights and they requested an
eighteen thousand dollar loan from the bank. The bank was like, nope,
the bank only gave them four thousand. So they had
to make do with a total of twelve thousand dollars
to start their first business. So when you think about it,
(11:13):
first of all, you could not get a bank loan
for a business like that today. Oh there's no way
I would like to start an ice cream store. I
took a five dollar correspondence. Course, we have eight thousand.
We're gonna put up no experience, uh, no business acumen
to speak of, but we would like alone. The bank
would laugh you right out at the door. The only
(11:34):
way you would get that is if you put your
house up as collateral. Absolutely have to really do some
convincing there. They had another decision to make when they
started putting this business together, and that was the name,
which we now know, of course, is Ben and Jerry's.
But they thought about calling the business Josephine's Flying Machine,
which is based on a song which, weirdly enough, was
in the Titanic movie Peolp He goes. Really old weird song. Anyway,
(12:12):
they decided that was a little too out there even
for them, as they named it Ben and Jerry's Homemade Holdings,
as we now know Ben and Jerry's. Another little fun
fact here, the two of them apparently always to this day,
when they have their picture taken, they stand in order
of their names, So Ben is always on the left
when you look at the picture and Jerry on the right,
(12:33):
and Jerry glorious that they take the time to think
about that. That's awesome. Yeah, no, I don't know if
this is true. This could just be a rumor, but
allegedly they made Jerry the company president to make up
for the fact that his name was second, or vice versa.
They put Ben's name first because Jerry was the first president.
It's unclear which of those things was true. But they
(12:55):
were all about a partnership and being fair and all
of that. So they started their their ice cream shop
in night with their twelve th investment, and they did
it in a renovated gas station in Burlington, Vermont. Fun fact,
they had one five gallon ice cream maker to start
the business. Also, this was the seventies before people were
(13:17):
germ phobic. I feel like germ phobic is sort of
a newer thing. So one of the things I used
to do with their store was they would put the
wooden blade from the ice cream maker out on the
counter for customers to lick the ice cream. I feel
like today's jeremyphobes are all grossed out right now, like
(13:39):
their skin is crawling. By comparison, this makes double dipping
seem tame. Did you just double dip that ship? Excuse me?
You double dipped the chip? Double dipped? What what are
you talking about? You dipped the chip, It took a
bite and you dipped again. They had one wooden dasher blade.
(14:02):
They put it out on the counter for people to
lick it. I hope that one person liked it and
gave it back, and then they washed it and reused it.
But I'm really not clear on that. I mean, they
were hippies, after all. It was the era of free love.
It may have been an early cost saving measure. You
let the customers look at clean you don't have to it.
You could be right about that. Another fun fact, you
know how they have all these fun flavors now, like
(14:23):
Cherry Garcia and Chunky Monkey and all of that. The
first flavor they made vanilla. Do they even sell just vanilla?
I don't think so. I think they have. I think
maybe they have vanilla frozen yogurt or something now, But no,
they don't just plain. I don't think so. Uh. In
any case, that was the first flavor, and it was
apparently quite delicious. Uh. The other thing they had to do,
(14:46):
of course, was figure out how to run a business.
Learning how to make ice cream was only part one.
You also have to know, like, oh, I don't know,
how to do some accounting, how to sell stuff, how
to wring it up. Well, Ben and Jerry learn how
to run a business from some brochures they got in
the United States Post Office. Do you know what the
post Office? No? I do know what the post Office is,
(15:08):
but brochures out of like the little the little plastic
holder things. They just grabbed a few and had a
study session. Boom, ready to run a business. So I
don't think the Post Office any longer has burchures of
that nature. I might go back and suggest that they
reinstate that policy, right, we can have more Ben and
Jerry's in the world. Sounds like I think that's a
brilliant idea. Well, they also did their business plan this way.
(15:29):
They had a friend of there as a guy named
Jeff Furman who was a lawyer. Uh, he helped them
write their business plan. What he did was find somebody
else's business plan that was for a pizza restaurant, and
every time he saw the word slice, he replaced it
with cone and that was their business plan. All of
this is so economical. That's where the word we should use.
I think. What I find fascinating about it is there
(15:51):
are I cannot tell you how many people I've talked
to in these days now who want to start a business,
who spend years trying to figure out to call it
and looking up domain names and you know, how to
write a business plan and how how are they ever
going to appeal to venture capital? And how are they
going to grow it from you know, one story to
a billion stores? And how are they going to make
(16:12):
millions of dollars? And how are they going to perfect
their recipes? And they spend all this time. Can I
use the word channing since we're doing an ice cream episode?
And they never actually start the business right, There's so
much of this extra planning that goes in and sometimes
you just gotta shut up and do it. Yeah, what
they did they scrounged up less money than they needed.
They didn't have any kind of plan. They just said,
(16:33):
you know what, if you if you churn the ice cream,
they will come. Yeah. I wonder if they actually said that.
Maybe that's where the Field of Dreams got the got
the line. Maybe it was from Ben and Jerry. Listen.
I think that's a really important point, and I think
it's something that is so lost today. If you find it.
First of all, if you find somebody you can partner with,
that's brilliant right up front. And if it's somebody you
(16:55):
like and you're having fun with, all the better. And
then add to that just having the ability to take
some risks, just put it out there, get some money together.
They did a friends and family round, they got dad involved,
They tried for the bank. When the bank said kind
of no ish, they said, all right, well whatever, we'll
make do with this amount. They didn't run crying and
away and do something else. Work, and they made it work.
(17:18):
It's all about making it work. It's about fun, and
it's about making it work. On that note, we're gonna
take a short break. So clearly Ben and Jerry didn't
actually start the business as a social enterprise, partly because
that term didn't even exist at the time. But giving
(17:40):
back and doing good was just kind of built into
who they were as people, and so it just kind
of became part of the business. They were into doing good,
giving back, treating people well, and making a good product
right from the beginning. But not in a cheesy, we're
just doing this as a marketing ploy kind of way,
more of like who they just are as people. It's
(18:01):
just the way Ben and Jerry seemed to Well, yeah,
I think there's this, you know right now, I feel
like this idea of doing a business for good, doing
a social enterprise has become really popular, and there are
some companies that are doing it well and they're doing
it with you know, genuine heart and because they really
want to. And then there are others that I think
(18:22):
just take that idea and say, okay, if we add
this social enterprise element into what we're doing, if we
give back to X y Z, cause people will buy
our stuff even though our stuff isn't better, our product
isn't any better, and you know, behind the scenes, were
actually treating our employees like crap, We're not really a
social enterprise, but we're going to use it as a
marketing employ That is not what Ben and Jerry were about.
(18:42):
They were truly about doing good and part of the
way you can tell that is how they treated their employees.
Right from the beginning. Ben and Jerry were great to
their employees. There's um a story that back in the eighties,
and I don't know exactly when they started at this,
I don't know if it was from day one or
it came a little bit later, they made a rule
that no employee, none including themselves, could make more than
(19:05):
five times with the lowest paid worker earned, which meant
that the CEO pay was capped at eighty one dollars.
So Ben and Jerry themselves made no more than eighty
one thousand dollars in salary, Yeah, or any of the
executive team or anyone else, which is pretty amazing. They
had to eventually scrap that idea when Ben finally retired
(19:29):
and they had to put his replacement in. They weren't
able to get a modern CEO for eighty one dollars.
Imagine that. Yeah, that's not exactly a competitive salary for
that position in the job, although but I would do it.
It sounds like fun anyway. I mean that was just
the kind of the way they were. An entry level
ben and Jerry's worker was earning sixteen dollars an hour.
(19:52):
I think this was maybe, uh in the mid two
thousands are read, I mean like two thousand tennis time frame,
which is like twice the minimum wage. So they've kept
that up all along the way. Um. And that's the
kind of stuff they did for their employees from the
get go, including wait for this, every employee was allowed
to take home is I think still allowed to take
(20:13):
home up to three pints of ice cream per day.
Best perk ever, best perk ever. And here's what's so
cool about that. See what I did there. Nobody's going
to take home three points a day except new guy Nick.
But nobody's going to steal from them, absolutely right. It's
not stealing if you get to take it home, right,
(20:34):
so whenever you want it, you know you can have it,
so you don't have to steal it. So it sets
up a culture of trust and you know, general purpose goodwill.
I don't know about you, maybe you have experienced this.
I mean, look at the radio station. There's not much
we could take home. Maybe in here like in this
podcast studio. I don't know we could take home our boss.
Maybe that's about it. But you know, I've worked for
(20:57):
restaurants where I had to pay for my meal, Like
I'm working on my feet for eight hours shift and
I have to pay for my meal, or like, oh,
you can have half price off. I'm sorry what I
stole every meal? I ate. I'm just saying, yeah, I
have to say, well, I worked at McDonald's. I cannot
tell you how many of those little nuggets I took
out of the tray. Of course not but yeah, I
(21:17):
had a twenty piece a day. Did you did you
do some germophobe except did you like like your fingers
and oh just checking? No, just checking. I mean this
idea that just like we want you to share in
the wealth of the company, take home with some ice cream.
You want some ice cream, take it home, enjoy it.
That's wonderful because it would be impossible to work at
Ben and Jerry's and not just want to take some home.
(21:39):
I know there are other companies that do that, and
I'm sure they weren't the first. They're definitely not going
to be the last. But it's not one pint a day.
It's three pints a day. It's genius. I think they
understood from early on that if you treat people right,
they're going to treat you right and they're gonna stick around.
And they felt the same way about their customers. On
their very first anniversary at their very first store in
(21:59):
v nine, so they open in nineteen seventy nine, on
their anniversary, they instituted free Cone Day. They have been
doing this on April tenth. Ever since April tenth at
Ben and Jerry's stores is Free Cone Day. But wait,
it's not one free cone. It's as many as you want.
You just have to go get back in line, and
(22:20):
people literally line up around the block and have free cones.
You get in line, you get your cone, you go
back and get in line again. Well, you're eating that coney,
free scoops for everyone all day long. It's not the
first hundred that get there. It's the full day and
you can get back in line as many times as
you want. It's free Cone Day day. Free Cone Day
(22:42):
is possibly one of the greatest days ever cream and
they get to get back in line and get more
ice cream. We've been coming here seven years every year,
solid five years. Yea, my whole life. This is my
second time in line, but usually go for four times
five seven free as good and Ben and Jerry's doesn't
(23:02):
get any better than that. And knowing that they can
share that and we can all show this happiness together
is such a great feeling. They did it in nine
nine when they probably couldn't afford to do it. That's
what's so genius about them. It was good marketing, but
it was also good will. They could have done a coupon,
they could have done a one free cone or buy one,
get one free, like other companies do, but they just
(23:24):
gave because that's who they were. They were about giving,
and it totally totally paid off. They care about their
customers even to this day and a granted things have
changed in the company over time. But there's a story
from back in twelve where a guy complained about his
ice cream. He says he put a spoon into his
point of Ben and Jerry's half baked, and he was
(23:44):
disappointed by the brownies. He said they were hard and
they were powdery. So he wrote in a complaint to
the company, and according to the Boston Globe, who wrote
this story up, they invited this guy to take a
tour of the factory. They didn't just send him a
coupon from More ice Cream, and they didn't write him
a sorry letter. They didn't ignore him. Now, they embraced him.
(24:04):
They made him a fan for life and brought him
to the factory for a tour and I'm sure plenty
of free ice cream. He described it as a Willy
Wonka type journey into a factory, and he said he
had the golden ticket. I've got a golden chance to
(24:28):
tickets gold. So it wasn't just the customers and the employees.
This is the part I think we all know in
love about Ben and Jerry's It's what they did for
the community and how they became essentially one of the
earliest social enterprises. Ben and Jerry established their foundation and
(24:51):
started giving seven point five of their annual pre tax
profits to community projects. That was on her it up
at the time. The eighties. Now that was my era.
I came of age in the nineteen eighties and we
were greedy. In the nineteen eighties. We were about how
much money we could make. You know, how high we
(25:12):
could climb on the corporate ladder. Maybe how high we
could get our hair to stand up. But also we
were just about making money. That's what we were doing.
And these guys were giving it away before anybody else
was doing that. Unheard of and amazing. They are still
doing that to this day. They do so much in
the way of giving back, it's insane. They used to make,
(25:32):
for example, all of their brownies for the fudge brownie
ice cream in the half baked ice cream at a
place called Grayson Bakery, which was a enterprise from New
York solely dedicated to giving jobs to the unemployed. They
literally protested. They put slogans on their ice cream themselves.
They named flavors after causes. They gave and gave and
(25:54):
gave and gave, and that, like I said, continues related
to this day. And I think most importantly, aside from
their employees and their community, they had fun. They had
fun from the get go, and they put that in
almost as part of their mission too. And you can
see it just looking at the containers. It's all about
the fun ice cream names they had. We talked about
this Cherry Garcia U named after the grateful dead guitarist
(26:16):
of course, Jerry Garcia, And that was because some of
their fans asked for it. They had fish food named
after the Vermont Rockery fish. Uh. Sweaty balls was another one,
maybe a little controversial. Yes, I just said sweaty balls
right in the middle of the Botography podcast. I sure did.
Do you remember that skit from Saturday Night Live? I
have seen it, Yes, it is great. That was when
(26:38):
Alec Baldwin was actually good looking. Well, there are lots
of great treats at this time of the year, zucchini bread, fruitcake.
But the thing that I most like to bring out
at this time of the year on my balls. No
one can resist my sweaty balls. Alec Bob and his speech. Ready,
(27:03):
it's a classic, almost as good as the character he
plays on SNL these days. Just saying that was a
controversial ice cream flavor didn't last that long. You can
see why. Maybe there was some Listen. One thing about
Ben and Jerry is they've always been sort of left leaning,
shall we say. This did not go over well, as
you can imagine with sort of the Christian mom groups,
(27:24):
So it didn't last very long. But it was fun
and they just meant it to be fun. Another one
of their controversial ice cream names was hazed and confused.
But they didn't mean it like that. Come on, they
didn't mean it like that. It actually got taken into
mean hazing, like on fraternity hazing. But it really was
just about you know, let's admitted it was based on
daysed and confused, and you know it might have been
(27:45):
about something that you might do that might make you
really hungry. I'm not saying, I'm just saying. Um. They did,
as I said, used flavor names also to express a
lot of their political and social agenda. Some of this
happened even after the company ultimately was sold, like yes pecan,
Yes we can, in reference to Barack Obama, that was
a flavor um. They were very much in favor of
(28:08):
gay marriage UH and renamed one of their flavors from
Chubby Hubby to Hubby Hubby and celebration of legalized same
sex marriage in Vermont. They did the same thing in
UH the UK with the flavor oh My apple Pie.
They changed it to appily ever after and had a
picture of a gay couple on the ice cream a container.
(28:29):
And they also short for a short while, renamed the
chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream to ido ido in
the United States, like I do. I do. See what
I'm doing there? Um, So they were always about that
and they took chances. That was another really interesting thing
I think about, or is still an interesting thing about
the company. They take chances all the time. They're not
afraid to lose a customer. If it's something they believe in, right,
(28:51):
they're willing to step in it. And then in certain
situations like with you know, shweaty balls, when it comes
down to it, they can take a step back and admit, okay,
we did it, and fun our apologies will fix it. Right.
So it's because it's a good motive, you know. I
think that it it works so well for them. Yeah.
I think the way that they have always been is
part of why they were so embraced and so beloved
(29:12):
as a brand and things throughout that whole period of
the eighties. Early went extremely well for Ben and Jerry
and for their company. The company grew in those years
from four million in annual sales to a hundred and
forty million in annual sales. But can all of that
do Goody last forever? That's the question, will answer it next.
(29:40):
So in the nineties things got a little rougher for
Ben and Jerry and the company began to struggle a
little bit there. Whackadoodle alternative management style lacked some of
the discipline from a fiscal perspective and a managerial perspective
that the market wanted from them. One of the things
(30:00):
that's fascinating about Ben and Jerry is they were not
rich guys to start with. I mean, you often hear
about companies who start with money, and so when something
goes wrong or they need to expand, they have somewhere
to go to get money to build out, or they
go to venture capital or whatever. Well, Ben and Jerry
very early on did something that also wasn't named the
(30:21):
way it is now back then, and that is essentially
they crowdfunded. So early early on, when they needed to expand,
they did what was almost a mini I p O.
And they raised money only from Vermont Or's because there
was something in state law and Vermont that allowed them
to do it. And they went public essentially, and then
not too long after that, in the eighties, they officially
(30:42):
went public and landed on the New York Stock Exchange.
So now here they are in the nineties and they're
a public company, and that means they have demands coming
in from the market. They have quarterly earnings they have
to report, and they have to continue to grow, and
so as much as they want to do good, they
also have to meet the demands of their shareholders. You know,
(31:03):
we we talked about how great they were to their stakeholders,
being their customers, their community, their employees, but one of
their stakeholders was also their actual shareholders, and that was
not the part they cared most about. In fact, they
really did not want to be what they called businessmen.
They were turned off by that, and every time there
was a discussion about growing their company, when they did
(31:25):
the decision to do the Mini I p O, when
they did the decision to be on the stock market,
they almost decided not to do it each time because
they didn't like that. They were these hippies from the
seventies who wanted to make ice cream and have fun
and come up with fun names and give money back
to charity and go out and protests. So they've resisted
being businessmen. But ultimately they convinced each other. I think
(31:46):
their families convinced them. The other stakeholders convinced them to
keep going and keep growing, and so they did. And
in the nineties things started to get a little bit rocky.
The company stock fell from about thirty four dollars a
share in nine down to seventeen dollars in so not
so good. I mean, there was a lot of competition
(32:07):
by this point. For you know, ice cream in a
point in the store. Think about how many different points
there are now. Absolutely, I mean back then, I think
even back then they were fighting with you know, some
of the big dogs we know now, like Haggandas and stuff. Yeah,
I feel like in the early days, Hagandas and Ben
and Jerry's were the two. Right now, there's like seventeen
thousand different ones that you can choose from right for
every kind of potential dietary need you have or diet
(32:28):
you're on, or if you want the full flavor this
kind of you know, almond milk and cashew milk and
gelatos and all the other craziness that's out there. But
that was the era when that all began. More you know, people,
more brands were looking at what the two of them
were doing, Haggandahs and Ben and Jerry's, and saying, Okay,
we're gonna we're gonna get in on that. As well.
Was really the year it started to go wrong. That
(32:51):
was the beginning of that sort of decline for them,
and it was a bad decade. But they, you know,
they were persistent, they kept going and they really us
at some point, you know, they've been at this now
for quite a while, and they wanted to bring in
a more professional CEO. So they couldn't help themselves. They
had to do it sort of a fun way. So
they did this Yo, I'm your CEO essay contest. Had
(33:13):
I only known, I would have so tried to get that. Yeah,
they did, literally, Yo, I'm your CEO Essay contest. Twenty
thou people sent in essays. Uh. They ended up hiring
a guy named Robert Holland Jr. Who I don't think
was one of the essayists. In fact, people were upset
about the fact that they didn't ultimately choose someone from
(33:35):
the essay contest. However, they were using a search firm
and the way they tell the story now anyway, one
person in the final five was from the essay contest,
so one person. Actually they did review all the essays
and one person made it all the way to the
final five. But ultimately they hired this guy, Robert Holland,
and he made things worse. Yeah, he was a CEO
(33:57):
who didn't have experience exactly in the business they needed.
He was not an ice cream guy, he was not
a food guy. He had CEO experience, but he was
the wrong decision and it made things worse. So this
was why they ultimately found themselves in a position at
the end of that decade, uh, you know, where they
were going to have to make a decision and they
were either going to take the company back private, take
(34:20):
it off the market altogether, or sell. And that's where
they found themselves. In fact, there was an article in
the New York Times around then that said they were
taking the company private, and then two weeks later a
second article saying they're selling to unit Lever. So that
was a really chaotic time for Ben and Jerry, and
I think a really troubling time for these two fun
loving guys. They had created this company that they um
(34:43):
didn't want to see turn into just another brand under
a big corporate umbrella, and that's why they really thought
about taking it back private, even though I think they
were kind of tired at that point. I mean, they
had been running a big company for a long time.
Ultimately they made what turned out to be a delicious decision.
In the end, they sold to Unilever, which might sound
(35:04):
like they were selling out, but they didn't. They found
a way to sell out without selling out. They sold
the company for three six million, which was over its
estimated value at the time. But the reason they chose Unilever,
and they had a few different people that were bidding
for the company, was because Unilever agreed to accept their terms.
Their terms included maintaining forever forever their mission of giving
(35:30):
back their social enterprise mission. So they had to put
in place and it's signed and see all there will
be a board of directors, it's independent of Unilever that
runs Ben and Jerry's and has responsibility for their social mission,
their brand integrity, and their product quality. And that will
go on as long as the brand exists. It's written
into the agreement. That is an outstanding way to sell
(35:53):
your company for a profit. And yet still, you know,
not completely disassociate yourself from the brand that has become
you over the last three and a half decades. That's out,
that's crazy. So they found a way to build this
brand for fun and to give back and they found
a way to leave this legacy even long after they're
(36:18):
gone from the company, which you know, they officially left
the company right after that sale. Basically they sold, they
did whatever transition they did, and they left. They even
had doubt then they didn't want to be sellouts. It's
not who they were. But I think, you know, fast forward,
they are proud now. And what's fascinating about what's happened
between then and now. If you google Ben and Jerry's
(36:40):
now or Ben and Jerry now, they have been arrested
time after time for protesting. They are constantly out in
the world giving and protesting and doing good and they're
all about it. And what's especially cool about it is
they still have a really solid relation and ship with
(37:01):
the company with Unilever, and when they call on them,
when the Ben and Jerry's division of Uni Leaver calls
on them to speak or to do something in partnership,
they're all about it. A lot of times you hear
about these companies, you know, they sell out, They do
their year that they have to do as part of
their contracts, and then they walk away, and it's bitter,
not at all with these guys. They don't believe in
better for them, it's all about the sweet. In fact,
I sort of feel like Ben and Jerry's is what
(37:23):
success really looks like. You know, they're not They're not
Zuckerberg billions, they're not Elon Musk billions. But they made
multimillions and they left this incredible legacy, right They've They've
done much more than just create an ice cream company.
They've created, essentially with Ben and Jerry's, kind of a
(37:44):
social cultural movement. Yeah. I think they're kind of the
chunky monkey of the business world. They're nutty, they're bananas,
and they're full of checkil goodness. All right, now, I'm hungry.
That's our show for today. Photography is produced by the
I Heart Podcast Network. I'm your host Dana Barrett. My
co host and producer is Nick Bean, Our executive producer
(38:07):
is Christopher hasci Otis, and Josh Thame provides audio production.
Have questions, want to give us feedback or have a
company you'd like us to cover. Email us at info
at Phisiography dot Show, or contact us on social I'm
at the Danta Barrett on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or
just search for Data Barrett on LinkedIn.
Long before it was called social entrepreneurship, before Tom's Shoes,
and even before we knew what a purpose driven life was,
there were a couple of guys who made ice cream,
made millions, and did their best to make the world
a better place. This is Visiography, the show where we
(00:30):
dive into the strange but true stories of iconic companies.
Whether they're founded by mad geniuses, brilliant visionaries, or fun
loving hippies from Vermont, they all have a past worth knowing.
I'm Dana Barrett. I'm a former tech executive and an entrepreneur,
a TV and radio host, and over the course of
my career, I've interviewed thousands of business leaders and reported
(00:51):
on the bright beginnings and massive flame outs of the
brands we know and love. Some of their stories are inspiring,
some get my blood boiling, and some are just plain weird.
Today's show, though, is all about the inspiration. So much
of the time, company histories focus on the who and
the how, But with Ben and Jerry's, I think the
(01:11):
most important part of their story is the why. Hanging
out with me as always is my millennial interpreter new
Guy Nick Why the millennial interpreter today. Well, because I
think this whole idea of including doing good in your
work is very much a concept that's been embraced by millennials.
So I'm going to need you to you know, interpret
(01:32):
for Okay, absolutely well, I'm here for you for the
good side. I appreciate that. Although I do think sometimes
you claim to not be one of the average millennials.
C Well, I think I think most of us claim
that we're not the average millennial, but at our core,
we all are kind of, you know, fun loving hippies.
I think I'm not the only one who has a
like a view of history that there's a pendulum that
kind of swings back and forth. And I think, you know,
(01:54):
Ben and Jerry were from the hippie era, which is
has a lot of parallels I think to millennials of
modern times, can't you very much very much. So it's
just you know, no, we have smartphones. They didn't have
those back then. Airpoint. I love the Ben and Jerry
story for so many reasons, not least of which is
how it ends, with them still best friends to this day,
(02:15):
still speaking out for what they believe in, still getting arrested.
The founders of Ben and Jerry's were a long way
from their Vermont ice cream factory when they found themselves
under arrest. Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield were reportedly busted
with hundreds of other protesters at the US Capital and
leaving behind an iconic brand that they can be proud of.
So how they do it, and more importantly, why did
(02:38):
they do it? I like ice cream, holt It tastes
good when days are had Anna Cone or in a dish.
This would be my only wish Vanilla Chocolate Rocky Road,
even with five albums. Jerry Greenfeld was born in nineteen
fifty one on March fourteenth, and weirdly enough, his soon
to be best friend, Ben Cohen was born just four
(02:58):
days later, on March eighteen, ninete. They met for the
first time in the seventh grade. They were in a
junior high school gym class. Now I have to admit
I have no friends left from that era in my life,
do you. I don't think many of us do. No.
I don't have any seventh grade friends I'm still in
(03:20):
contact with any more. They're still friends to this day.
But here's Jerry explaining how they met growing up in
Long Island together. We were thirteen years old. We met
in gym class, running around the track together, where we
were the two slowest, fattest kids in the class. There
was a pack of kids up in the front, there
was Ben and me in the back. The coach was
(03:40):
yelling at us, gentlemen, you've got to run the mile
and under seven minutes. If you don't, you're gonna have
to do it again. And Ben would yell back at
the coach, ge, coach, if I don't do it and
under seven minutes the first time, I'm certainly not going
to do it and under seven minutes the second time.
That was when I realized Ben was somebody I wanted
to get to know. Maks we want to be friends
(04:02):
with both of them. Actually, the two were friends from
that year in the seventh grade all the way through
high school. At the end of high school, they went
their separate ways, then dropped out of school altogether. He
tried college for a little while, but I didn't like
it and decided he'd be better off making pottery. Um
a last, he made pottery that no one wanted to buy,
so then he tried a bunch of other jobs here
(04:23):
and there, and none of which were overly successful. Meanwhile,
Jerry went off to college and he did do his
four years. He went to Oberlin and he got a
premed degree. And then this happened. I was premed. I
applied to twenty medical schools. I got rejected from twenty
medical schools. I reapplied to another twenty medical schools. I
got rejected from those twenty medical schools. I got another
(04:46):
job as a lab technician in a biochemistry research lab
because I already had experience. So that's what Ben and
I were doing. Uh, we were essentially failing at everything
we were trying to do, and so we said, why
why don't we try to get together, do something fun,
be our own bosses. They decided to get together, do
something fun and be their own bosses. That was their
(05:10):
entire Why that is not what happens in modern times.
I feel like right now, I mean, granted, this wasn't
that long ago, it was the nineteen seventies, but I
feel like now everybody is so intent on finding some
deep meaning and internal passion and making sure it's the
passion that's going to drive them through the rest of
their lives, that they don't just start something because it
(05:32):
sounds fun. Yeah, they do something and start something because
they want to make a greater difference in the world.
So it's a you know, some kind of environmental company
or or a nonprofit that does something like that. Yeah. Yeah,
And I think there's something even people who do things
just because they are going to be fun, Like maybe
don't really admit it anymore. Like if you're going to
(05:53):
Hollywood and you want to be an actor because it
seems fun, you have to say something else. I may
care about my craft or you know, like I want
to make documentaries because I want to change the way,
you know, the culture of whatever. Right, I mean, I
think we both went into radio because it's fun. Yeah, absolutely,
I mean, and you're right, it's funny you mentioned that
because I like to tell people I got into radio
(06:14):
because at some point I want to be able to
change the way people think. But you're right, in reality,
I just like talking to a microphone, right. I I agree,
like I do want to change the way people think.
But I also it's fun. It's a fun job and
there should be no shame in that. And I kind
of love that Ben and Jerry were just these two
guys who loved hanging out together. Ever since seventh grade
(06:36):
gym class. They felt like they weren't really doing well
on their own, so what if they got together and
tried to do something fun and be their own bosses.
That's a whole other reason that you know. Still many
people in modern times, I think, go into business, but
it's not again when you hear about very often, absolutely,
and it hits on that notion you said of the
(06:57):
passion and the greater causes. Sometimes if you just have
fun doing something, you can do so much more than
just what the company is. Yeah, I mean, I think
it's important to care about what you're doing, but not
necessarily the product. Like they didn't. They weren't passionate about
ice cream. They didn't. They weren't like, oh, you know
(07:17):
ice cream. It changed my mother's life. You know, she
came over from Russia back in the day, and it
was that first bowl of ice cream that made all
the difference. And that is why I'm going to start
an ice cream company. They actually chose ice cream, I
think because it was cheaper than a bagel company. Like
I'm not making that up, that's for reals, Like they
(07:38):
wanted to do bagels and then they were like ice
creams cheaper, let's just do ice cream. Weird side note
about that, Ben actually can't taste or smell anything. He
has a weird uh I think, somewhat unusual condition called
a nasma's how you saying nasmal sounds the little news
related a nasmial he has that it's a lack of
(08:01):
a sense of smell or taste, and so he was
all about just relying on the mouth feel of the
ice cream they made ultimately, and that's why they put
their trademark chunks allegedly into the ice cream for him. Wow. Well,
I like to think they did it for all of
us because even those of us who can taste, in
feel and smell everything, right, we like the chunks too. Yeah,
(08:22):
it's all about the chocolate us. My friend listen, Uh,
that was only the first part, right, they decided to
do this business. But you know, as we heard from
Jerry himself, these were guys that were not doing so well,
Like they were kind of failing at stuff. They weren't geniuses,
and they didn't have any particular insight into entrepreneurship. They
weren't coming they didn't come from you know, long line
(08:43):
of entrepreneurs or anything like that. So uh and by
the way, they didn't know how to make ice cream.
It's not like they made ice cream every summer a
camp or anything. They had no idea. Now, so they
decided they need to learn how to make ice cream
first and foremost. They did that, wait for it, by
taking a correspondence course. Do we to know what that is? No, well,
they really have no idea for real? What is what
(09:05):
is a correspondence course? Is it kind of like a
like a a post education like adult You're so cure
right now, it's just adorable. Sorry, Well, in the let
me just let me just school you right now, guy Neck.
In olden days, long long ago, when I was just
a wee lass and they didn't have a thing called
the interwebs, they had this thing called like pen and paper,
(09:28):
and you wrote to each other letters, and when you
did that, it was called correspondence. So a correspondence course
was literally a course by mail interest. Okay, so basically
this is the old school version of watching YouTube videos. Yeah,
so essentially, you you applied for this course and they
sent you information and give you instructions, and you try
(09:49):
the instructions and you fill out the answers and you
send it back and you get your certification. So they
did this correspondence course from Penn State University. Uh it
was a wait for it, five dollar correspondence course. That's
how much it cost breaking the bank. But they were
broke at the time, so they actually kind of cheated
(10:09):
and split one course and only paid two fifty each
to take the class. And that's how they learned to
make ice cream. So then they decided it was time
to go. They made their ice cream, they perfected their recipe,
and they got it how they wanted it, and they
decided they should each invest four thousand dollars to to
start their first ice cream shop. That was the plan.
(10:30):
Jerry had the four thousand. He invested it Ben the
pottery maker, who seemed to be a little bit of
the you know, more more hippie ish of the two.
Let's just put it that way. I'm not gonna say
he was lazier, Absolutely, he was a little bit more
about the peace and love and following your right. He
was a little more whips and called that's a good
way to say it. He only had two k, so
(10:53):
he had to actually borrow his other half the other
two k from his uh from his dad, which he did,
and then they took their eights and they requested an
eighteen thousand dollar loan from the bank. The bank was like, nope,
the bank only gave them four thousand. So they had
to make do with a total of twelve thousand dollars
to start their first business. So when you think about it,
(11:13):
first of all, you could not get a bank loan
for a business like that today. Oh there's no way
I would like to start an ice cream store. I
took a five dollar correspondence. Course, we have eight thousand.
We're gonna put up no experience, uh, no business acumen
to speak of, but we would like alone. The bank
would laugh you right out at the door. The only
(11:34):
way you would get that is if you put your
house up as collateral. Absolutely have to really do some
convincing there. They had another decision to make when they
started putting this business together, and that was the name,
which we now know, of course, is Ben and Jerry's.
But they thought about calling the business Josephine's Flying Machine,
which is based on a song which, weirdly enough, was
in the Titanic movie Peolp He goes. Really old weird song. Anyway,
(12:12):
they decided that was a little too out there even
for them, as they named it Ben and Jerry's Homemade Holdings,
as we now know Ben and Jerry's. Another little fun
fact here, the two of them apparently always to this day,
when they have their picture taken, they stand in order
of their names, So Ben is always on the left
when you look at the picture and Jerry on the right,
(12:33):
and Jerry glorious that they take the time to think
about that. That's awesome. Yeah, no, I don't know if
this is true. This could just be a rumor, but
allegedly they made Jerry the company president to make up
for the fact that his name was second, or vice versa.
They put Ben's name first because Jerry was the first president.
It's unclear which of those things was true. But they
(12:55):
were all about a partnership and being fair and all
of that. So they started their their ice cream shop
in night with their twelve th investment, and they did
it in a renovated gas station in Burlington, Vermont. Fun fact,
they had one five gallon ice cream maker to start
the business. Also, this was the seventies before people were
(13:17):
germ phobic. I feel like germ phobic is sort of
a newer thing. So one of the things I used
to do with their store was they would put the
wooden blade from the ice cream maker out on the
counter for customers to lick the ice cream. I feel
like today's jeremyphobes are all grossed out right now, like
(13:39):
their skin is crawling. By comparison, this makes double dipping
seem tame. Did you just double dip that ship? Excuse me?
You double dipped the chip? Double dipped? What what are
you talking about? You dipped the chip, It took a
bite and you dipped again. They had one wooden dasher blade.
(14:02):
They put it out on the counter for people to
lick it. I hope that one person liked it and
gave it back, and then they washed it and reused it.
But I'm really not clear on that. I mean, they
were hippies, after all. It was the era of free love.
It may have been an early cost saving measure. You
let the customers look at clean you don't have to it.
You could be right about that. Another fun fact, you
know how they have all these fun flavors now, like
(14:23):
Cherry Garcia and Chunky Monkey and all of that. The
first flavor they made vanilla. Do they even sell just vanilla?
I don't think so. I think they have. I think
maybe they have vanilla frozen yogurt or something now, But no,
they don't just plain. I don't think so. Uh. In
any case, that was the first flavor, and it was
apparently quite delicious. Uh. The other thing they had to do,
(14:46):
of course, was figure out how to run a business.
Learning how to make ice cream was only part one.
You also have to know, like, oh, I don't know,
how to do some accounting, how to sell stuff, how
to wring it up. Well, Ben and Jerry learn how
to run a business from some brochures they got in
the United States Post Office. Do you know what the
post Office? No? I do know what the post Office is,
(15:08):
but brochures out of like the little the little plastic
holder things. They just grabbed a few and had a
study session. Boom, ready to run a business. So I
don't think the Post Office any longer has burchures of
that nature. I might go back and suggest that they
reinstate that policy, right, we can have more Ben and
Jerry's in the world. Sounds like I think that's a
brilliant idea. Well, they also did their business plan this way.
(15:29):
They had a friend of there as a guy named
Jeff Furman who was a lawyer. Uh, he helped them
write their business plan. What he did was find somebody
else's business plan that was for a pizza restaurant, and
every time he saw the word slice, he replaced it
with cone and that was their business plan. All of
this is so economical. That's where the word we should use.
I think. What I find fascinating about it is there
(15:51):
are I cannot tell you how many people I've talked
to in these days now who want to start a business,
who spend years trying to figure out to call it
and looking up domain names and you know, how to
write a business plan and how how are they ever
going to appeal to venture capital? And how are they
going to grow it from you know, one story to
a billion stores? And how are they going to make
(16:12):
millions of dollars? And how are they going to perfect
their recipes? And they spend all this time. Can I
use the word channing since we're doing an ice cream episode?
And they never actually start the business right, There's so
much of this extra planning that goes in and sometimes
you just gotta shut up and do it. Yeah, what
they did they scrounged up less money than they needed.
They didn't have any kind of plan. They just said,
(16:33):
you know what, if you if you churn the ice cream,
they will come. Yeah. I wonder if they actually said that.
Maybe that's where the Field of Dreams got the got
the line. Maybe it was from Ben and Jerry. Listen.
I think that's a really important point, and I think
it's something that is so lost today. If you find it.
First of all, if you find somebody you can partner with,
that's brilliant right up front. And if it's somebody you
(16:55):
like and you're having fun with, all the better. And
then add to that just having the ability to take
some risks, just put it out there, get some money together.
They did a friends and family round, they got dad involved,
They tried for the bank. When the bank said kind
of no ish, they said, all right, well whatever, we'll
make do with this amount. They didn't run crying and
away and do something else. Work, and they made it work.
(17:18):
It's all about making it work. It's about fun, and
it's about making it work. On that note, we're gonna
take a short break. So clearly Ben and Jerry didn't
actually start the business as a social enterprise, partly because
that term didn't even exist at the time. But giving
(17:40):
back and doing good was just kind of built into
who they were as people, and so it just kind
of became part of the business. They were into doing good,
giving back, treating people well, and making a good product
right from the beginning. But not in a cheesy, we're
just doing this as a marketing ploy kind of way,
more of like who they just are as people. It's
(18:01):
just the way Ben and Jerry seemed to Well, yeah,
I think there's this, you know right now, I feel
like this idea of doing a business for good, doing
a social enterprise has become really popular, and there are
some companies that are doing it well and they're doing
it with you know, genuine heart and because they really
want to. And then there are others that I think
(18:22):
just take that idea and say, okay, if we add
this social enterprise element into what we're doing, if we
give back to X y Z, cause people will buy
our stuff even though our stuff isn't better, our product
isn't any better, and you know, behind the scenes, were
actually treating our employees like crap, We're not really a
social enterprise, but we're going to use it as a
marketing employ That is not what Ben and Jerry were about.
(18:42):
They were truly about doing good and part of the
way you can tell that is how they treated their employees.
Right from the beginning. Ben and Jerry were great to
their employees. There's um a story that back in the eighties,
and I don't know exactly when they started at this,
I don't know if it was from day one or
it came a little bit later, they made a rule
that no employee, none including themselves, could make more than
(19:05):
five times with the lowest paid worker earned, which meant
that the CEO pay was capped at eighty one dollars.
So Ben and Jerry themselves made no more than eighty
one thousand dollars in salary, Yeah, or any of the
executive team or anyone else, which is pretty amazing. They
had to eventually scrap that idea when Ben finally retired
(19:29):
and they had to put his replacement in. They weren't
able to get a modern CEO for eighty one dollars.
Imagine that. Yeah, that's not exactly a competitive salary for
that position in the job, although but I would do it.
It sounds like fun anyway. I mean that was just
the kind of the way they were. An entry level
ben and Jerry's worker was earning sixteen dollars an hour.
(19:52):
I think this was maybe, uh in the mid two
thousands are read, I mean like two thousand tennis time frame,
which is like twice the minimum wage. So they've kept
that up all along the way. Um. And that's the
kind of stuff they did for their employees from the
get go, including wait for this, every employee was allowed
to take home is I think still allowed to take
(20:13):
home up to three pints of ice cream per day.
Best perk ever, best perk ever. And here's what's so
cool about that. See what I did there. Nobody's going
to take home three points a day except new guy Nick.
But nobody's going to steal from them, absolutely right. It's
not stealing if you get to take it home, right,
(20:34):
so whenever you want it, you know you can have it,
so you don't have to steal it. So it sets
up a culture of trust and you know, general purpose goodwill.
I don't know about you, maybe you have experienced this.
I mean, look at the radio station. There's not much
we could take home. Maybe in here like in this
podcast studio. I don't know we could take home our boss.
Maybe that's about it. But you know, I've worked for
(20:57):
restaurants where I had to pay for my meal, Like
I'm working on my feet for eight hours shift and
I have to pay for my meal, or like, oh,
you can have half price off. I'm sorry what I
stole every meal? I ate. I'm just saying, yeah, I
have to say, well, I worked at McDonald's. I cannot
tell you how many of those little nuggets I took
out of the tray. Of course not but yeah, I
(21:17):
had a twenty piece a day. Did you did you
do some germophobe except did you like like your fingers
and oh just checking? No, just checking. I mean this
idea that just like we want you to share in
the wealth of the company, take home with some ice cream.
You want some ice cream, take it home, enjoy it.
That's wonderful because it would be impossible to work at
Ben and Jerry's and not just want to take some home.
(21:39):
I know there are other companies that do that, and
I'm sure they weren't the first. They're definitely not going
to be the last. But it's not one pint a day.
It's three pints a day. It's genius. I think they
understood from early on that if you treat people right,
they're going to treat you right and they're gonna stick around.
And they felt the same way about their customers. On
their very first anniversary at their very first store in
(21:59):
v nine, so they open in nineteen seventy nine, on
their anniversary, they instituted free Cone Day. They have been
doing this on April tenth. Ever since April tenth at
Ben and Jerry's stores is Free Cone Day. But wait,
it's not one free cone. It's as many as you want.
You just have to go get back in line, and
(22:20):
people literally line up around the block and have free cones.
You get in line, you get your cone, you go
back and get in line again. Well, you're eating that coney,
free scoops for everyone all day long. It's not the
first hundred that get there. It's the full day and
you can get back in line as many times as
you want. It's free Cone Day day. Free Cone Day
(22:42):
is possibly one of the greatest days ever cream and
they get to get back in line and get more
ice cream. We've been coming here seven years every year,
solid five years. Yea, my whole life. This is my
second time in line, but usually go for four times
five seven free as good and Ben and Jerry's doesn't
(23:02):
get any better than that. And knowing that they can
share that and we can all show this happiness together
is such a great feeling. They did it in nine
nine when they probably couldn't afford to do it. That's
what's so genius about them. It was good marketing, but
it was also good will. They could have done a coupon,
they could have done a one free cone or buy one,
get one free, like other companies do, but they just
(23:24):
gave because that's who they were. They were about giving,
and it totally totally paid off. They care about their
customers even to this day and a granted things have
changed in the company over time. But there's a story
from back in twelve where a guy complained about his
ice cream. He says he put a spoon into his
point of Ben and Jerry's half baked, and he was
(23:44):
disappointed by the brownies. He said they were hard and
they were powdery. So he wrote in a complaint to
the company, and according to the Boston Globe, who wrote
this story up, they invited this guy to take a
tour of the factory. They didn't just send him a
coupon from More ice Cream, and they didn't write him
a sorry letter. They didn't ignore him. Now, they embraced him.
(24:04):
They made him a fan for life and brought him
to the factory for a tour and I'm sure plenty
of free ice cream. He described it as a Willy
Wonka type journey into a factory, and he said he
had the golden ticket. I've got a golden chance to
(24:28):
tickets gold. So it wasn't just the customers and the employees.
This is the part I think we all know in
love about Ben and Jerry's It's what they did for
the community and how they became essentially one of the
earliest social enterprises. Ben and Jerry established their foundation and
(24:51):
started giving seven point five of their annual pre tax
profits to community projects. That was on her it up
at the time. The eighties. Now that was my era.
I came of age in the nineteen eighties and we
were greedy. In the nineteen eighties. We were about how
much money we could make. You know, how high we
(25:12):
could climb on the corporate ladder. Maybe how high we
could get our hair to stand up. But also we
were just about making money. That's what we were doing.
And these guys were giving it away before anybody else
was doing that. Unheard of and amazing. They are still
doing that to this day. They do so much in
the way of giving back, it's insane. They used to make,
(25:32):
for example, all of their brownies for the fudge brownie
ice cream in the half baked ice cream at a
place called Grayson Bakery, which was a enterprise from New
York solely dedicated to giving jobs to the unemployed. They
literally protested. They put slogans on their ice cream themselves.
They named flavors after causes. They gave and gave and
(25:54):
gave and gave, and that, like I said, continues related
to this day. And I think most importantly, aside from
their employees and their community, they had fun. They had
fun from the get go, and they put that in
almost as part of their mission too. And you can
see it just looking at the containers. It's all about
the fun ice cream names they had. We talked about
this Cherry Garcia U named after the grateful dead guitarist
(26:16):
of course, Jerry Garcia, And that was because some of
their fans asked for it. They had fish food named
after the Vermont Rockery fish. Uh. Sweaty balls was another one,
maybe a little controversial. Yes, I just said sweaty balls
right in the middle of the Botography podcast. I sure did.
Do you remember that skit from Saturday Night Live? I
have seen it, Yes, it is great. That was when
(26:38):
Alec Baldwin was actually good looking. Well, there are lots
of great treats at this time of the year, zucchini bread, fruitcake.
But the thing that I most like to bring out
at this time of the year on my balls. No
one can resist my sweaty balls. Alec Bob and his speech. Ready,
(27:03):
it's a classic, almost as good as the character he
plays on SNL these days. Just saying that was a
controversial ice cream flavor didn't last that long. You can
see why. Maybe there was some Listen. One thing about
Ben and Jerry is they've always been sort of left leaning,
shall we say. This did not go over well, as
you can imagine with sort of the Christian mom groups,
(27:24):
So it didn't last very long. But it was fun
and they just meant it to be fun. Another one
of their controversial ice cream names was hazed and confused.
But they didn't mean it like that. Come on, they
didn't mean it like that. It actually got taken into
mean hazing, like on fraternity hazing. But it really was
just about you know, let's admitted it was based on
daysed and confused, and you know it might have been
(27:45):
about something that you might do that might make you
really hungry. I'm not saying, I'm just saying. Um. They did,
as I said, used flavor names also to express a
lot of their political and social agenda. Some of this
happened even after the company ultimately was sold, like yes pecan,
Yes we can, in reference to Barack Obama, that was
a flavor um. They were very much in favor of
(28:08):
gay marriage UH and renamed one of their flavors from
Chubby Hubby to Hubby Hubby and celebration of legalized same
sex marriage in Vermont. They did the same thing in
UH the UK with the flavor oh My apple Pie.
They changed it to appily ever after and had a
picture of a gay couple on the ice cream a container.
(28:29):
And they also short for a short while, renamed the
chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream to ido ido in
the United States, like I do. I do. See what
I'm doing there? Um, So they were always about that
and they took chances. That was another really interesting thing
I think about, or is still an interesting thing about
the company. They take chances all the time. They're not
afraid to lose a customer. If it's something they believe in, right,
(28:51):
they're willing to step in it. And then in certain
situations like with you know, shweaty balls, when it comes
down to it, they can take a step back and admit, okay,
we did it, and fun our apologies will fix it. Right.
So it's because it's a good motive, you know. I
think that it it works so well for them. Yeah.
I think the way that they have always been is
part of why they were so embraced and so beloved
(29:12):
as a brand and things throughout that whole period of
the eighties. Early went extremely well for Ben and Jerry
and for their company. The company grew in those years
from four million in annual sales to a hundred and
forty million in annual sales. But can all of that
do Goody last forever? That's the question, will answer it next.
(29:40):
So in the nineties things got a little rougher for
Ben and Jerry and the company began to struggle a
little bit there. Whackadoodle alternative management style lacked some of
the discipline from a fiscal perspective and a managerial perspective
that the market wanted from them. One of the things
(30:00):
that's fascinating about Ben and Jerry is they were not
rich guys to start with. I mean, you often hear
about companies who start with money, and so when something
goes wrong or they need to expand, they have somewhere
to go to get money to build out, or they
go to venture capital or whatever. Well, Ben and Jerry
very early on did something that also wasn't named the
(30:21):
way it is now back then, and that is essentially
they crowdfunded. So early early on, when they needed to expand,
they did what was almost a mini I p O.
And they raised money only from Vermont Or's because there
was something in state law and Vermont that allowed them
to do it. And they went public essentially, and then
not too long after that, in the eighties, they officially
(30:42):
went public and landed on the New York Stock Exchange.
So now here they are in the nineties and they're
a public company, and that means they have demands coming
in from the market. They have quarterly earnings they have
to report, and they have to continue to grow, and
so as much as they want to do good, they
also have to meet the demands of their shareholders. You know,
(31:03):
we we talked about how great they were to their stakeholders,
being their customers, their community, their employees, but one of
their stakeholders was also their actual shareholders, and that was
not the part they cared most about. In fact, they
really did not want to be what they called businessmen.
They were turned off by that, and every time there
was a discussion about growing their company, when they did
(31:25):
the decision to do the Mini I p O, when
they did the decision to be on the stock market,
they almost decided not to do it each time because
they didn't like that. They were these hippies from the
seventies who wanted to make ice cream and have fun
and come up with fun names and give money back
to charity and go out and protests. So they've resisted
being businessmen. But ultimately they convinced each other. I think
(31:46):
their families convinced them. The other stakeholders convinced them to
keep going and keep growing, and so they did. And
in the nineties things started to get a little bit rocky.
The company stock fell from about thirty four dollars a
share in nine down to seventeen dollars in so not
so good. I mean, there was a lot of competition
(32:07):
by this point. For you know, ice cream in a
point in the store. Think about how many different points
there are now. Absolutely, I mean back then, I think
even back then they were fighting with you know, some
of the big dogs we know now, like Haggandas and stuff. Yeah,
I feel like in the early days, Hagandas and Ben
and Jerry's were the two. Right now, there's like seventeen
thousand different ones that you can choose from right for
every kind of potential dietary need you have or diet
(32:28):
you're on, or if you want the full flavor this
kind of you know, almond milk and cashew milk and
gelatos and all the other craziness that's out there. But
that was the era when that all began. More you know, people,
more brands were looking at what the two of them
were doing, Haggandahs and Ben and Jerry's, and saying, Okay,
we're gonna we're gonna get in on that. As well.
Was really the year it started to go wrong. That
(32:51):
was the beginning of that sort of decline for them,
and it was a bad decade. But they, you know,
they were persistent, they kept going and they really us
at some point, you know, they've been at this now
for quite a while, and they wanted to bring in
a more professional CEO. So they couldn't help themselves. They
had to do it sort of a fun way. So
they did this Yo, I'm your CEO essay contest. Had
(33:13):
I only known, I would have so tried to get that. Yeah,
they did, literally, Yo, I'm your CEO Essay contest. Twenty
thou people sent in essays. Uh. They ended up hiring
a guy named Robert Holland Jr. Who I don't think
was one of the essayists. In fact, people were upset
about the fact that they didn't ultimately choose someone from
(33:35):
the essay contest. However, they were using a search firm
and the way they tell the story now anyway, one
person in the final five was from the essay contest,
so one person. Actually they did review all the essays
and one person made it all the way to the
final five. But ultimately they hired this guy, Robert Holland,
and he made things worse. Yeah, he was a CEO
(33:57):
who didn't have experience exactly in the business they needed.
He was not an ice cream guy, he was not
a food guy. He had CEO experience, but he was
the wrong decision and it made things worse. So this
was why they ultimately found themselves in a position at
the end of that decade, uh, you know, where they
were going to have to make a decision and they
were either going to take the company back private, take
(34:20):
it off the market altogether, or sell. And that's where
they found themselves. In fact, there was an article in
the New York Times around then that said they were
taking the company private, and then two weeks later a
second article saying they're selling to unit Lever. So that
was a really chaotic time for Ben and Jerry, and
I think a really troubling time for these two fun
loving guys. They had created this company that they um
(34:43):
didn't want to see turn into just another brand under
a big corporate umbrella, and that's why they really thought
about taking it back private, even though I think they
were kind of tired at that point. I mean, they
had been running a big company for a long time.
Ultimately they made what turned out to be a delicious decision.
In the end, they sold to Unilever, which might sound
(35:04):
like they were selling out, but they didn't. They found
a way to sell out without selling out. They sold
the company for three six million, which was over its
estimated value at the time. But the reason they chose Unilever,
and they had a few different people that were bidding
for the company, was because Unilever agreed to accept their terms.
Their terms included maintaining forever forever their mission of giving
(35:30):
back their social enterprise mission. So they had to put
in place and it's signed and see all there will
be a board of directors, it's independent of Unilever that
runs Ben and Jerry's and has responsibility for their social mission,
their brand integrity, and their product quality. And that will
go on as long as the brand exists. It's written
into the agreement. That is an outstanding way to sell
(35:53):
your company for a profit. And yet still, you know,
not completely disassociate yourself from the brand that has become
you over the last three and a half decades. That's out,
that's crazy. So they found a way to build this
brand for fun and to give back and they found
a way to leave this legacy even long after they're
(36:18):
gone from the company, which you know, they officially left
the company right after that sale. Basically they sold, they
did whatever transition they did, and they left. They even
had doubt then they didn't want to be sellouts. It's
not who they were. But I think, you know, fast forward,
they are proud now. And what's fascinating about what's happened
between then and now. If you google Ben and Jerry's
(36:40):
now or Ben and Jerry now, they have been arrested
time after time for protesting. They are constantly out in
the world giving and protesting and doing good and they're
all about it. And what's especially cool about it is
they still have a really solid relation and ship with
(37:01):
the company with Unilever, and when they call on them,
when the Ben and Jerry's division of Uni Leaver calls
on them to speak or to do something in partnership,
they're all about it. A lot of times you hear
about these companies, you know, they sell out, They do
their year that they have to do as part of
their contracts, and then they walk away, and it's bitter,
not at all with these guys. They don't believe in
better for them, it's all about the sweet. In fact,
I sort of feel like Ben and Jerry's is what
(37:23):
success really looks like. You know, they're not They're not
Zuckerberg billions, they're not Elon Musk billions. But they made
multimillions and they left this incredible legacy, right They've They've
done much more than just create an ice cream company.
They've created, essentially with Ben and Jerry's, kind of a
(37:44):
social cultural movement. Yeah. I think they're kind of the
chunky monkey of the business world. They're nutty, they're bananas,
and they're full of checkil goodness. All right, now, I'm hungry.
That's our show for today. Photography is produced by the
I Heart Podcast Network. I'm your host Dana Barrett. My
co host and producer is Nick Bean, Our executive producer
(38:07):
is Christopher hasci Otis, and Josh Thame provides audio production.
Have questions, want to give us feedback or have a
company you'd like us to cover. Email us at info
at Phisiography dot Show, or contact us on social I'm
at the Danta Barrett on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or
just search for Data Barrett on LinkedIn.
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