November 29, 2011 • 33 mins
Every year, auto manufacturers release concept cars. These vehicles often showcase unique features, such as a shape-changing body or innovative seat design. Yet these vehicles rarely make it into production -- listen in as Scott and Ben explain why.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Go behind the wheel, under the hood and beyond with
car stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello, welcome
back to the podcast and as always, thanks for tuning in.
My name is Ben Bowling. I am a video writer
here at how Stuff Works, and I'm Scott Benjamin, the
(00:22):
auto editor here at how stuff works dot com. Also,
and today we're gonna get to a little bit more
listener mail. Listener mail, love love listener mail. Are we
actually going to take a listener suggestion? We're going to
take a few listeners suggestions once again. I did this
last time as well, and um, I think we're gonna Yeah,
(00:42):
we're gonna answer maybe as many as three listener mail suggestions.
I like what I like what you say. Mr Benjamin.
You know they used to call me Ben multitask, So
I do it just to knock off some of these
some of some of this work I got laying around,
So this is this is a good way to do it.
I'm gonna get through the three not rate of but
you know, take care of three three suggestions here, let's
(01:04):
let's get in. So from July of this year and
also from September this year and November this year, we
had three listeners that wanted to hear about concept cars
concept concept cars, and basically, um, all three of them
wanted to know about, Um, why is it the concept
cars really don't quite make it the production? Why don't it?
(01:25):
Why isn't it that oftentimes they don't make it? Oh?
What a good question? And yeah, I thought so too.
And also why you know what, why don't they make
it to mass production? Why they why do they lose
a little bit of their cool? It was another one right, Um,
so we've got one from actually why don't they make
the production? Was from g l Man And I don't
know where g l Man is from, but it was
(01:46):
one of them. And then we've got one from Gabriel
which is in September, And that's the one that wanted
to know why they don't or why they lose some
of their cool when they finally do hit mass production,
because sometimes you see elements of the concept car, right
and it looks a little bit different or a lot different,
like you might see it on a newer model of
an existing car. Yeah, and uh, that was Gabriel. And
then Deming also wrote in, and Deming said, I just
(02:10):
wants to know what our favorites are, and um, it
isn't a shame that they aren't really, you know, regularly produced.
I guess I agree because I love concept cars and
to me, that's often why I'll go to an auto
show is to to see the concept and I think
a lot of people are the exact same way. Yeah,
because you want to you want to see the newest thing,
(02:30):
especially when we consider now I know I've said it before, Scott,
and I hate to I hate to bring it up again,
but it is true that a vehicle of any sort
is a significant investment, even if you're only even if
you're buying an older, used vehicle, you are expecting that
you will have it around for a while and you'll
take care of it. And of course everybody wants the
(02:53):
coolest thing possible. So it's really fascinating to be able
to walk into a dealership or a car show or
an exhibition of some sort and see, uh, what was
the one from I think it was earlier this year
or the end of last year. There was that concept
car that had fabric covering it and he was able
(03:13):
to shape change, change, the shapewa. It was definitely BMW
the shape shifting car. Oh Man that was cool. Hell
was pretty good fabric with the motion below it to
Uh did have the top or was it? Um? Oh?
The doors? I think the doors were unique to the
have any hinges? I didn't have had hinges within. But
there were no scenes on it. There were no visible
When it closed, you you couldn't see the scene. And
(03:37):
so I mean, I completely understand it. But again I think, uh,
let's see. Gabriel asked right why these vehicles, why these
concept cars lose some of their cool when they go
into production. It sounds like what actually tends to happen
is that features from the concept cars make it rather
(03:58):
than the cars themselves. Exactly right, It's not. It's not
always right, but you're you're on the right track here,
and that Um it's I guess we have to explain
what concept car is. Yeah, yeah, and jump, but no, no,
not much, because, um, concept car. You'll hear them called
show cars, you'll hear them called concept cars, you hear
them called prototype cars, and maybe even there are other
(04:18):
terms out there. I'm just giving you three concept but
but the idea behind them is that it's a it's
a test bed for the engineers and designers, and that
it allows them to get these ideas. It's a free
flowing idea. UM. It's a brainstorm really that all these
people get together and they decide, you know, what they're
gonna what they're gonna build, what the what the purpose
(04:38):
of this project is. We'll go through the steps in
a moment here, but um, once they know what that
what that's gonna be, then they're able to really just
kind of go to the outer limits of what they
what they can do. And that's the cool thing about
this is that when you see a concept car, you're
seeing the possibly what you're gonna see on real production
vehicles in the future, if not the entire body and vehicle.
(05:01):
UM or new name plates or are badging rather um,
you know the names of cars. Let's say that. UM, well, like, okay,
this isn't brand new, but um the Mustang, remember the
the excitement that was around the Mustang concept that came back,
you know, the the well the one that we see
on the road now right, it looks like the throwback version,
the retro version. Well that was eventually that was originally
(05:22):
a concept vehicle in UM, I want to say two
thousand five, UM I happened in my notes here somewhere,
But um, so it actually made it, it did it
made Actually the two thousand three was the Ford Mustang redesign.
And um then, of course is the Camaro, which we
saw recently as well, and that drew a lot of excitement.
So there's you know, it gets people buzzing about, you know,
(05:43):
that a certain product, a certain certain manufacturer. I'll tell
you what looks like a concept car a few years ago.
And I know I'm interrupting, you know, I am sorry,
but it has to be said. The Prowler. That looks
like it was a concept. The Prowler was a concept car.
In going to my notes nine, I got a big
(06:03):
long list here, okay, the and I don't you're knowing
that you were made into production again yelling at their
computer screen here, but um seven, if I had to guess,
ninety sets somewhere in there. Um anyways, mid mid to
late nineties, and um again, that was just an outlandish
car that people thought, you know, they would never produce
as a plymouth plymouth would never make this right, And
(06:27):
you know they did it. They did. They were able
to do it. They were able to sell them. They
did the same thing with Dodge did the same thing
with the Dodge Viper in nine. You're right. Do you
remember the stir that the Dodge Viper caused in ninety nine? Yes?
And I you're gonna tell me how old you were? No? Three? Yeah,
(06:47):
I was something like that. You know what, I'm gonna
just come clean with you here on the air. I
was thirty four in n I take a lot of
itemins exercise, so yourself in tupper where when you sleep,
I seal myself. And well we don't call it typerware
because it's a brand thing. Yeah, um, air tight container
of a generic sart Scott. There are a lot of
(07:09):
shady people looking for people like me, you know, who
aged so well. So we should probably just not mention
it again. And I think your genetic perfection, well you
know I'm not. I'm not. I'm not a genetic perfection.
Let's let's not go to let's not go to four
thirty four. Ye. I don't have any idea. How will
you be right now? That's uh see, you can't tell
(07:31):
you can't. It's it's surprising. This is a two pay
I'm kidding, I'm kidding. But but to go back to um,
to go back to what we're talking about, thankfully. Yeah, yeah, yeah. UM.
When the Viper did come out, I was actually too
young to drive, and I just remember thinking it was
a car straight out of a comic book. You know,
(07:52):
it looks like a Superheroes car. It was Outland, it
was it was a big, powerful V ten engine. I know,
I didn't amazing. Um, and you know, not only that,
it was sure it became production and I believe ninety
two and um eventually yeah so a few years later. Um,
but also even had that won't even spawn spinoff cars,
(08:13):
spinoff concept cars. There was the Dodge copper Head, which
is very similar design. Um, the copper Head had a
V six engine I believe, and um, then copper Head
never really went anywhere, didn't make it, but they did
then offer a Dodge Viper that had the copper Head package,
which had the unique coloring and some interesting attributes like
(08:33):
cosmetic stuff. Yeah, exactly, the Copperhead treatment. Let's go through
I think the best way for us to show our
listeners here at the or rather, I think the best
way for us to explain to our listeners why there's
such a high attrition rate for concept cars. Making it
through the thought process. Do you do you think maybe
we could go through the steps of making these cars. Sure, yeah,
(08:55):
we can do that. And that's uh, it's mostly mostly
it falls down and it falls onto this. Um I
say that right, and mostly it comes down to this. Okay,
that's something like that. The bottom line. Yeah, if if
if it, if it fails, well then they can just
drug it off as it was a test and you know,
we got we got some media out of it, and
you know, we had we had a vehicle in the
show and our engineers had a good exercise and they
(09:17):
get information either way. That's right to get information either way.
And maybe maybe an element of that cars is good
and it goes on. If it's applauded. If you know,
the media loves it, the press, the people attending the
show is love it. It It draws a lot of attention. Um,
you know that it appears on magazine covers, etcetera. Um,
then they might push forward with it. And I mean
in these cars, you gotta remember there are millions and
(09:38):
millions of dollars because they're they're one vehicle that the
company's building. It's it's not a cheap car to make
any any prototype, any concept car, is one of a
kind and it's it's all hand formed, handmade everything, unless
they're they happen to be taking from another platform, like
they may be using the chassis and the and the
rolling platform. Let's say the ende in the transmission that
(10:01):
you know, the drive train from another platform vehicle that
they have, and they're they're building up on top of that,
which is done. That is done often. Yeah, that's because
that's a time that's a money and time saver, because
to develop a brand new car from scratch, it takes
a lot of effort. I mean the amount of time
that that takes. By the time you got to the
show that you wanted to attend, if you could make
(10:21):
it to that show, you probably wouldn't be able to
make it because it would it would require so much
lead in time or lead time that you probably wouldn't
make it for whatever date you're trying to shoot for
in your car. Your your concept would look dated at
that point, right, So you know, it's easier to start
with a good base. Now, big manufacturers have a have
an advantage there whereas the one off companies you know
(10:43):
they uh, you know, they have a little bit more
of a struggle and be able to turn something around
quickly and be able to fund this vehicle and it's
kind of their one shot and hope it works well.
Plus also, yeah, exactly, that's dude to reading my mind
because for the smaller car manufacturers, basically everything they design
is going to be a concept car until they can
(11:04):
somehow leverage it into a production vehicle. And that's right.
And I I'm trying to think of a good example
that and just off the top of my head, I'm
thinking of maybe a Tera. Um they had they had
a vision, they had an idea of what they wanted
to do, they built a vehicle. Um, I don't know,
I don't have any idea what that original vehicle cost.
But they were then able to to shop that around
to investors and you know, make people believe in what
(11:27):
they were doing. And now they're they're getting ready for
production now, so um, you know, they're they're able to
turn that into dollars and hopefully we'll be able to
turn that the dollars into production and get the cars
coming out of the door. So technically, that's one concept
car that did make it into production. That's one, but
there's actually there's several examples but most don't make it right.
(11:48):
These are very few exceptions generally to this rule. And
maybe another reason why. Well, here let's talk about we've
gotta we've gotta the steps, right, yeah, we got the
steps here, and this is there's a um just kind
of an order of events that kind of have to happen.
I just give them to you real quickly and kind
of a loose idea of what what these involved. Um,
(12:10):
you got to figure out first what what your audience is,
what you want to achieve with this vehicle, what what
the what the goal is, and what you're trying to
accomplish with it, Like we want to sell this car
to pirates, pirates I heard, yeah, yeah, yeah, great idea.
Yeah hey I uh yeah, maybe maybe there's my application
for Ford right now? Perfect? Yeah, good, good work. That's
(12:32):
your best brainstorming. Then you go into h where the
group you know, kind of gathers together. We do that
here for ideas for articles and um podcast whatever. Um.
So you just kind of throw around ideas and you
choose whatever works the best or what everybody agrees that
would be a good idea for you know, what you
decided in the first case, which is you know, what
do you want to accomplish with this design? H. Then
you go into just a sketching phase where you know,
(12:55):
they draw it out either you know it's either on
paper it's cat design, or you know it's just that
there's a lot to from ways to do this now.
So the sketches are the next step because that's not
terribly expensive. It's still expensive, but not not terribly expensive.
If you get your designers working on it. This is
the h And still at this point, even a lot
can change. They can say I hate that, let's get
rid of it, Let's start again. This isn't what we
(13:16):
thought about. You know, we thought it was gonna look
like scrap it and start over where they could say
I really like that, but change this short And there's
a lot of that throughout this entire process. I mean
it changes, I would guess, right up until the point
where they're putting together the final show vehicle. Yeah. The
next step is modeling stage. And the modeling stage is
where they make either scale models which can be put
(13:38):
in the wind tunnel and tested just like a normal
you know, the full size vehicle can um There can
also be clay models which can also be scale, which
is usually what the way they do it first for
this model stage. UM. And then there's also UM A
you could do a tape model, which is a chart
paper that's on the side of the like in a wall.
You've probably I don't know if you've seen this or not,
(13:58):
maybe in UM motos of design studios they have a
it's like a big piece of graph paper, huge and
they do a full scale UM tape outline of the
vehicle on the wall, so you get a feel for
the height of the vehicle, that the dimensions of it,
the way the body's going. But it's two dimensional, it's
very flat. UM. Again, it's just tape on paper on
(14:18):
graph paper, and this can be changed and moved around.
UH so that you know, you can decide if you
want bigger wheels on that car, you want you want
the fender flares to go just a little bit higher
or lower, UM, the roofline, every everything, any any aspect
of that that profile the car you can change at
that point. UM. So again, just constant chain or continuous
change throughout this whole process. The next step UM there's
(14:42):
only six here really, but UM the full size Clay model,
and you've probably seen Clay modeling before and it's so
it's still interesting to me though that they do a
full size and clay. Well, the idea is that clay
is easy to manipulate, it easy to easy to take
away material, easy to add material. Um, It's it's unlike
(15:04):
let's say, if you did it with styrofoam, you know,
something like that. They do that, but that's the smaller models. Um,
if you if you take away styrofoam, it's a lot
more difficult to add styrofoam to that model than it
is to uh to add clay. Um, you know, I
don't even know if you can add styrofoam to a
funnel once he's want to done that. So, um, clay
(15:24):
is just you know, it just happens to be a
material that's eat lends itself to this type of design.
So they still do full scale clay models that they
then sometimes they cover them with with decals and make
them look like a real vehicle for photo shoots whatever.
You'll see them with completely blacked out windows because that's
clay behind there. And the thing it's you know, it's
it's sort of hollow. It's built on a on a frame.
You know, maybe even styrofoam and would um just a
(15:48):
you know, just a um kind of like a crate
almost that it's built on um. So it's not solid clay,
but um, it's very very thick. And then and then
the final are so once they've decided that, you know,
they like the like the design, they have to figure
out how they're gonna make this bring this to reality
because the clay is all about shaping the car and
getting exactly right the model. When you're actually building the car,
(16:12):
that's when you have to get every individual piece figured
out and put together. Exactly how am I gonna make
this this unique hood design work? Now? Am I gonna make? Um? Okay,
that's that's a great tailgate, But um, how am I
gonna make the latch that works for that? Because you know,
there's gonna be interference here with this glass. And oftentimes
they have to take the ideas that have never been
(16:33):
done before. And this is the part where they actually
do them, where they say, Okay, we are somehow going
to hinge this door to this part of the car
exactly yeah, and they've got to figure out how the
heck am I going to do that? It's never been
done before. Um, so the benefit of the stage now
the designers and engineers have is the the computer aided
(16:56):
design UM and there's a lot of different it's not
just cat it's there's a lot out of other types
of scatilla. There's all kinds of different um UM systems
that that allow you to to do this digitally before
you actually do a physical model. And UM you know
that that way that that way you can figure out
where interferences are going to happen. Let's say that hinge
doesn't work right and the body contacts the body in
(17:17):
another spot. Um, you can change that before you even
make one hinge UM so that you know it's it's
exactly right when you build it the first time. And
that's something that um, you know, they didn't have in
the past, designers didn't have the past. That must have
been difficult. Yeah, it had to have been difficult. I mean,
look at we we talked about the Mako Shark a
long time ago. Yes, remember the nineteen fifty and stretching
(17:39):
my member stingray concept. Yes, the silver car UM that car.
You know, of course, when they went came to building
the real car, that had to build that all by hand,
and they didn't have the additional help of you know,
the computer programs they have now, So that was just
trial and error until they got it right, and hopefully
they got it right the first or second or third time.
And that's where the guy kept coming back and sane,
(18:00):
no change the paint. No, that was actually the Mako Shark, right,
That was the did I see the Mako Shark? I meant, um,
I guess the one that the precursor to that. Um
in anyways that you're you're right. That was another concept
car that was a couple of years later, sixty two
I think it was, And um, there's sixty one, the
fifty nine concept I believe I got my notes here somewhere.
(18:22):
That was a sting ray and same thing, man, same thing.
You're you're exactly right. Um. A lot of that became production.
As we talked about with the Mako Shark, to make
this your example of the Mako Shark. It became reality
in the nineteen sixty three Corvette and you could see it.
I mean you clearly see where that came from from
(18:43):
that vehicle. So a lot of these happened that way.
The Dodge Vipers won the Prowlers, another Plymouth problem. Um,
I gotta got a list here him here. Yeah, but
let's let's see it wrap. Let's here's something that that
didn't make it. I mean there's a there's like the
Mercedes three hundred Life Jet, which is a three wheel
tilting machine thing. It looked like a motorcycle kind of
(19:06):
with a full body around it. Um, I see. There
was of course the Camaro made it, which is now.
There was the Ford Reflex in h two thousand six.
It kind of looked like a crossfire cruiser crossfire a
little bit, and the E the second E and reflexes
a three some kind of weird name. Um. Probably we
already talked about that. I think it was t t
(19:29):
rex was at Dodge. I think it was dodged the
three wheel as well. Right, that was six wheels, six wheel,
six wheels, the TV you're oh, you know what you're
thinking of. You're thinking of the motorcycle car, right, yeah, Oh,
I'm thinking I'm talking about a truck. There's this huge
truck that had six wheel drive, two wheels in the back,
and they weren't like the the I guess they call
it a dually design where the side by side. This
(19:50):
was one wheel in front of the other one. So
if you look at the profile, there were two wheels
in the bed of the vehicle and then one up front,
you know where the normal where they Yeah, that's that's interesting.
It was really cool and it had um I think
it was a five horsepower. It had a twenty six
thousand pound toying capacity. And again it had six wheels
or three per side, so it's this enormous work trucks.
(20:13):
It was huge. It's really huge. Um of course, the
Caliber was a concept car at one time, and that's
kind of the next generation Neon that that became reality.
Uh Nitro was one. Magnum s R T eight was
a concept at one point, was a concept at one point.
I've got a lot of crist here because that's the
site that I went to and I'm familiar with that
(20:34):
with that brand. But um Ford and GM they have
just as many, and there's you know, concepts coming from
Toileta and Honda and all over the place. Every manufacturer
does concept cars. Some do it with a little more
style than others. Um like um Citron. Citron has amazingly
just beautiful, beautiful concept cars. They're they're gorgeous but they
(20:57):
look so outlandish and they're just so so out there
that the likelihood that will become production is very slim.
You could just kind of tell when you look at
it right it's going to happen, or if it has
a chance at making it or not, how close to
production is it when it when it is a concept car. Exactly,
That's exactly it. Because I was thinking of this as
well while we were talking about the different cars that
(21:20):
have and have not made it from the limbo of
concept to you know, actual mass production. And one thing
that's very interesting is oftentimes the absolute favorite outlandish and
I think it's a perfect word for it, the absolute
favorite outlandish. Uh. Concept cars are never going to make
it into production because it's a huge risk to try to,
(21:43):
you know, to get the let's say you threw around
the number a couple million right or something or something right,
because we're at a point where we're realistically not building
something to sell it. We're building something to prove to
ourselves that a concept works or that we can give
our engineers a sandbox. Really and so if here's a
(22:05):
good example, UM Saturn had one called the flex, I'm
sure listener will correct me. It was like the flex
wheel or flex fire or something that The main thing
that I remember about this concept car is that had
a clam shale trunk. Clam shell excuse me, my Tennessee
is coming out and uh, and so one one half
(22:27):
of the trunk could open independently of another half. Yes,
and that's a cool idea. I loved the idea just
for the ease of use. But the problem is they're
never gonna be able to sell that for realistically because
there are new parts that have to be involved, you know,
there's right, there's not really an infrastructure for it. And
(22:48):
every time I think that every time a concept car
is defeated, you know, or ends up being one of
those fallen soldiers on the way to production it it's okay,
not every time, Scott, That's not fair. The majority of
the time it is because there's not a way to
produce it in a reasonable um at a reasonable price
(23:10):
point because of the parts involved or something, or it's
just too much of a risk to throw an entire
an entire factory behind it, right true, And um, you
know make a good point that you know a lot
of times they a lot of times they do end
up as these fallen soldiers on the way to production.
That's a good way to say that, because, um, the
(23:32):
pieces may the pieces may make it unobtainable. They maybe
make it something they just can't do. Um. But a
lot of times it's just public opinion and press opinion,
and you know, just saying that I just don't like it.
I just uhum, for whatever reason, it doesn't doesn't strike
my fancy, or that's a bad design, because like the
one that you're describing right now, what I thought of
(23:53):
initially was well, there's another scene right in the middle
of the car that you know, it can leak. There's
another another it's another thing, you know, point where water
can get in my trunk. But I'm sure that wasn't
the case. They probably designed it so that it was watertight,
and of course you know that they had good ceiling systems.
But I don't know. There's there's always gonna be something
that someone's gonna nitpick over, and maybe they'd say, like, well,
(24:14):
you know, it's a good thought, let's maybe some corporateate
into a different part of the car, Like maybe we
can turn that up on its side and use that
for the door design. The way they overlap or however
that worked. Um, I don't know. Public public opinion plays it,
you know, heavily into this in ninety nine. There's a
funny example in nineteen I'm almost done, really, I promise.
In they Pantiac had a concept car called the Rageous Okay,
(24:41):
Pontiac Rageous, and I happened to be there was the
press thing or whatever, you know, I worked there, and
one of the press people said the funniest line I
may have ever heard it. I still remember this all
the time. He said, because it was called rageous, because
it was supposed to be outrageous, right for up rageous right.
So the guy says, they shouldn't have called it the rags,
(25:04):
they should have called it ridiculous. And I thought that
was a perfect line, Like you know, it's like, yeah,
instead of being the rages, it should be ridiculus. You
know right away you knew what he's talking. It's like
that Homer Simpson card, Oh yeah, yeah, well the Homer
the Homer Homer. Yeah, that's uh, it was. I don't
know if the rag was it really was it real ridiculous?
(25:25):
You know? It was, yeah, it was whatever. I could
see it when I saw it, when I was there.
I saw it. Yeah, ridiculous, It's funny, and you know,
not to disparage them or anything. It was just another shot,
you know, it's another attempted and who knows, maybe there
are parts from the Rags that made it into other
Pontiac production vehicles. But I just don't know, because you
know that it may be something really really subtle that
(25:46):
that eventually made it into production that people did like,
where the design was great. So that happens. It happens
a lot, and that's that's a good positive place for
us to put this because the answer to the question
kind of about why these cars may lose their cool
while they have such a difficult time getting a production
is that they actually do make it. In different parts,
(26:11):
they partially make it because they're all they're sort of
a mixed tape of concepts, you know, and some of
these concepts, like some songs on a mixtape, are things
that people enjoy listening to or using this analogy is
confusing me. I think I'm I'm talking at myself into
a corner. That's all right, I'll get you out of
it here, ye yeah, get me out of it. Yeah.
They It's it's true that you know, there are percentage
(26:32):
of these things sometimes make it through. It's not always
all of them. And when you look at when you
look at a car on on the auto show floor,
you can determine you can almost see it. And there's
some of that are a little more outlantis than others.
But you can kind of tell which ones are nearly
production ready. I mean some of the cars when they
come out for their their unveiling, some of them are
pushed out. You know, they don't have an engine, they
(26:52):
don't have an interior. They're just a shell of a
car and it just rolls out and that. And I've
seen cars pushed onto the stage before. Um, I've seen
others make it out on the stage in their own
power and have to be pushed back. They I've also
seen them pushed because they don't have an engine, they
don't have the transmiss, they don't have anything interior, just
the body. Then there's other there's another stage where they
(27:12):
have an interior. It looks like a real vehicle. You know,
they've they've put their designers on the interior as well. Um.
Another good exercise for them, you know, to determine what
to do the next vehicle but um, but maybe it
doesn't have an engine. And then there's another step where
it has everything. It's a fully operational concept and it's
built on another platform, probably because that's a really expensive
(27:34):
one to make, right there, And when you're starting something
from scratch, unless that is going to be your next
production vehicle, and this is a this is yeah, and
this is something that you've really gotten behind with millions
and millions and millions of dollars, and you know this
is in development, this is gonna happen. I got it.
I've got a perfect way for us to end this
and maybe go into some more listener mail. Okay, So,
(27:55):
and I wasn't just pulling pulling it out a thin
air when we were Relider talking about this steps to
get building concept cars. Another thing that can happen that
can stop a concept car from getting to production is,
just like you said, public opinion, somebody who maybe has
been with a concept project for two years or something,
all of a sudden in the show room smacks their
(28:18):
forehead and goes, holy crap, pirates use boats, Why would
they want a car? You know what I mean? There's
there's this fundamental misunderstanding of an audience I would hope
that somebody thought that earlier, but you never know, you
never know, you never know that the Edel kind of
flew close to the sun like a chorus and very good,
(28:41):
very good. You brought a complete full circle there, Ben,
and I think, well, thank you. I hang out with
a pretty impressive podcaster that came out stuff you should know. Well, yeah,
you know they're cool too. They're cool too. Um. I
was talking about you trying to try to throw a
(29:01):
people positive energy your weight. I'm blushing. Do you want
to do some listener mail? I would love to do
listener maw. Okay, we'll keep this, uh, keep this pretty brief.
But John from Toronto writes in, and he raises some
great points Scott, uh, he says, and I think this
is more question for you. Uh, it says. A while back,
we're talking about maintenance and oil changes. He talked about
(29:21):
changing your oil every three thousand miles or five thousand
kilometers because he's Canadian, or six months. What's with the
six months date? When you start to use your oil,
does it start to break down on its own? For instance,
if it takes nine months to drive five thousand kilometers,
is that bad that's what he's asking. So he's it
sounds like he's basically asking if he doesn't drive three
(29:43):
thousand miles in six months, should he still changes. I've
always heard three thousand or three months, if that's the
oil manufacturers and so um, so, yeah, you gotta take that.
You gotta read your owners manual. It's usually longer period
of time between oil changes. But yeah, there is a
time limit. Uh, there's a there's a milege limit or
a time limit and whichever you arrive at first. It's
(30:04):
like a warranty. It's mileage at war time. So yeah,
if it's been six months, you need to get it
out of there, just clean it out because it's just
you know, the sediment or whatever. I don't I don't
know what if it starts breaking down on a molecular
level or what happens there. But um, there is a
time limit on it. You don't want to run old
oil in a car. Um, it's just a bad idea.
Yuh yeah, really, I don't know exactly the reason why
(30:25):
why that is, why the time limit, And again maybe
it's just to sell oil. I don't know. I'll have
to I'm gonna have to investigate it a little further.
But honestly, there's always there's it's it's always paired with
a time limit as well, and just just talk to
your man. The best thing to do call the manufacturer
find out what the recommendation is for the time limit
on on your oil, because you know, they may say
(30:47):
bring it in of course, because they want to sell
an oil change, But UM, get a reason why talk
to talk to the mechanic and say, you know, why
why is it that I have to change every six months,
even if it's just sitting in my garage because a
lot of people have weekend cars that never get to
three thousand miles here even and you know they may
have to change you will twice. Um, it's just what
(31:07):
you do. That's a good point. But also I'm sorry,
oh no, I was gonna say that the duration of
time and the um distance is a lot greater if
you start moving into these semisynthetics oral synthetics oil. So
I'm thinking that you know, maybe there is something with um,
the standard organic oil that does break down a little
faster than the semisynthetic or the or the full synthetic oils.
(31:29):
What a good point makes sense, right, I mean I
think you can even stretch and don't quote me on this,
but I thought that I've heard numbers highest fifteen thousand
four um synthetic oil fifteen thousand miles. What's really interesting
is John also points out that he's been reading that
in Europe they don't change the oil nearly is often,
so it's every ten to twenty thousand kilometers? Yeah? Really,
(31:50):
so that's six thousand Was that six thousand to uh
twelve thousand miles on or antic oil? Uh? He does
not specify the kind of oil or I think that's
what you're talking about. That oil is black when it
comes out of there. I imagine, so I think it
would be. I imagine if you're pushing it that long,
then uh, save a few bucks. I guess that's about
it for us today. Um, but what a what a
(32:12):
good topic to leave this on UM for any listeners.
Do you guys think that this oil thing is an
exaggeration about oil companies? Do you think that it is
a good idea to run a car that long without oil?
Or are there any other popular rules of thumbs about
cars that you would like to hear us answer? Run
it without new oil? Running without I had to jump
(32:34):
in because it's had to run a car without oil
any time, right, right? Really interested to know about the
time consideration, definitely, you know why, why is it? Why
is it six months? Why is it three months? I
think would be interested to know that. So if anybody knows,
hit me with it. And what's that email address? Ed
email addresses high speed stuff but how Stuff Works dot com.
(32:57):
Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff
from the Future. Join houstaff Work Staff as we explore
the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The housteff
Works iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on iTunes.
Go behind the wheel, under the hood and beyond with
car stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello, welcome
back to the podcast and as always, thanks for tuning in.
My name is Ben Bowling. I am a video writer
here at how Stuff Works, and I'm Scott Benjamin, the
(00:22):
auto editor here at how stuff works dot com. Also,
and today we're gonna get to a little bit more
listener mail. Listener mail, love love listener mail. Are we
actually going to take a listener suggestion? We're going to
take a few listeners suggestions once again. I did this
last time as well, and um, I think we're gonna Yeah,
(00:42):
we're gonna answer maybe as many as three listener mail suggestions.
I like what I like what you say. Mr Benjamin.
You know they used to call me Ben multitask, So
I do it just to knock off some of these
some of some of this work I got laying around,
So this is this is a good way to do it.
I'm gonna get through the three not rate of but
you know, take care of three three suggestions here, let's
(01:04):
let's get in. So from July of this year and
also from September this year and November this year, we
had three listeners that wanted to hear about concept cars
concept concept cars, and basically, um, all three of them
wanted to know about, Um, why is it the concept
cars really don't quite make it the production? Why don't it?
(01:25):
Why isn't it that oftentimes they don't make it? Oh?
What a good question? And yeah, I thought so too.
And also why you know what, why don't they make
it to mass production? Why they why do they lose
a little bit of their cool? It was another one right, Um,
so we've got one from actually why don't they make
the production? Was from g l Man And I don't
know where g l Man is from, but it was
(01:46):
one of them. And then we've got one from Gabriel
which is in September, And that's the one that wanted
to know why they don't or why they lose some
of their cool when they finally do hit mass production,
because sometimes you see elements of the concept car, right
and it looks a little bit different or a lot different,
like you might see it on a newer model of
an existing car. Yeah, and uh, that was Gabriel. And
then Deming also wrote in, and Deming said, I just
(02:10):
wants to know what our favorites are, and um, it
isn't a shame that they aren't really, you know, regularly produced.
I guess I agree because I love concept cars and
to me, that's often why I'll go to an auto
show is to to see the concept and I think
a lot of people are the exact same way. Yeah,
because you want to you want to see the newest thing,
(02:30):
especially when we consider now I know I've said it before, Scott,
and I hate to I hate to bring it up again,
but it is true that a vehicle of any sort
is a significant investment, even if you're only even if
you're buying an older, used vehicle, you are expecting that
you will have it around for a while and you'll
take care of it. And of course everybody wants the
(02:53):
coolest thing possible. So it's really fascinating to be able
to walk into a dealership or a car show or
an exhibition of some sort and see, uh, what was
the one from I think it was earlier this year
or the end of last year. There was that concept
car that had fabric covering it and he was able
(03:13):
to shape change, change, the shapewa. It was definitely BMW
the shape shifting car. Oh Man that was cool. Hell
was pretty good fabric with the motion below it to
Uh did have the top or was it? Um? Oh?
The doors? I think the doors were unique to the
have any hinges? I didn't have had hinges within. But
there were no scenes on it. There were no visible
When it closed, you you couldn't see the scene. And
(03:37):
so I mean, I completely understand it. But again I think, uh,
let's see. Gabriel asked right why these vehicles, why these
concept cars lose some of their cool when they go
into production. It sounds like what actually tends to happen
is that features from the concept cars make it rather
(03:58):
than the cars themselves. Exactly right, It's not. It's not
always right, but you're you're on the right track here,
and that Um it's I guess we have to explain
what concept car is. Yeah, yeah, and jump, but no, no,
not much, because, um, concept car. You'll hear them called
show cars, you'll hear them called concept cars, you hear
them called prototype cars, and maybe even there are other
(04:18):
terms out there. I'm just giving you three concept but
but the idea behind them is that it's a it's
a test bed for the engineers and designers, and that
it allows them to get these ideas. It's a free
flowing idea. UM. It's a brainstorm really that all these
people get together and they decide, you know, what they're
gonna what they're gonna build, what the what the purpose
(04:38):
of this project is. We'll go through the steps in
a moment here, but um, once they know what that
what that's gonna be, then they're able to really just
kind of go to the outer limits of what they
what they can do. And that's the cool thing about
this is that when you see a concept car, you're
seeing the possibly what you're gonna see on real production
vehicles in the future, if not the entire body and vehicle.
(05:01):
UM or new name plates or are badging rather um,
you know the names of cars. Let's say that. UM, well, like, okay,
this isn't brand new, but um the Mustang, remember the
the excitement that was around the Mustang concept that came back,
you know, the the well the one that we see
on the road now right, it looks like the throwback version,
the retro version. Well that was eventually that was originally
(05:22):
a concept vehicle in UM, I want to say two
thousand five, UM I happened in my notes here somewhere,
But um, so it actually made it, it did it
made Actually the two thousand three was the Ford Mustang redesign.
And um then, of course is the Camaro, which we
saw recently as well, and that drew a lot of excitement.
So there's you know, it gets people buzzing about, you know,
(05:43):
that a certain product, a certain certain manufacturer. I'll tell
you what looks like a concept car a few years ago.
And I know I'm interrupting, you know, I am sorry,
but it has to be said. The Prowler. That looks
like it was a concept. The Prowler was a concept car.
In going to my notes nine, I got a big
(06:03):
long list here, okay, the and I don't you're knowing
that you were made into production again yelling at their
computer screen here, but um seven, if I had to guess,
ninety sets somewhere in there. Um anyways, mid mid to
late nineties, and um again, that was just an outlandish
car that people thought, you know, they would never produce
as a plymouth plymouth would never make this right, And
(06:27):
you know they did it. They did. They were able
to do it. They were able to sell them. They
did the same thing with Dodge did the same thing
with the Dodge Viper in nine. You're right. Do you
remember the stir that the Dodge Viper caused in ninety nine? Yes?
And I you're gonna tell me how old you were? No? Three? Yeah,
(06:47):
I was something like that. You know what, I'm gonna
just come clean with you here on the air. I
was thirty four in n I take a lot of
itemins exercise, so yourself in tupper where when you sleep,
I seal myself. And well we don't call it typerware
because it's a brand thing. Yeah, um, air tight container
of a generic sart Scott. There are a lot of
(07:09):
shady people looking for people like me, you know, who
aged so well. So we should probably just not mention
it again. And I think your genetic perfection, well you
know I'm not. I'm not. I'm not a genetic perfection.
Let's let's not go to let's not go to four
thirty four. Ye. I don't have any idea. How will
you be right now? That's uh see, you can't tell
(07:31):
you can't. It's it's surprising. This is a two pay
I'm kidding, I'm kidding. But but to go back to um,
to go back to what we're talking about, thankfully. Yeah, yeah, yeah. UM.
When the Viper did come out, I was actually too
young to drive, and I just remember thinking it was
a car straight out of a comic book. You know,
(07:52):
it looks like a Superheroes car. It was Outland, it
was it was a big, powerful V ten engine. I know,
I didn't amazing. Um, and you know, not only that,
it was sure it became production and I believe ninety
two and um eventually yeah so a few years later. Um,
but also even had that won't even spawn spinoff cars,
(08:13):
spinoff concept cars. There was the Dodge copper Head, which
is very similar design. Um, the copper Head had a
V six engine I believe, and um, then copper Head
never really went anywhere, didn't make it, but they did
then offer a Dodge Viper that had the copper Head package,
which had the unique coloring and some interesting attributes like
(08:33):
cosmetic stuff. Yeah, exactly, the Copperhead treatment. Let's go through
I think the best way for us to show our
listeners here at the or rather, I think the best
way for us to explain to our listeners why there's
such a high attrition rate for concept cars. Making it
through the thought process. Do you do you think maybe
we could go through the steps of making these cars. Sure, yeah,
(08:55):
we can do that. And that's uh, it's mostly mostly
it falls down and it falls onto this. Um I
say that right, and mostly it comes down to this. Okay,
that's something like that. The bottom line. Yeah, if if
if it, if it fails, well then they can just
drug it off as it was a test and you know,
we got we got some media out of it, and
you know, we had we had a vehicle in the
show and our engineers had a good exercise and they
(09:17):
get information either way. That's right to get information either way.
And maybe maybe an element of that cars is good
and it goes on. If it's applauded. If you know,
the media loves it, the press, the people attending the
show is love it. It It draws a lot of attention. Um,
you know that it appears on magazine covers, etcetera. Um,
then they might push forward with it. And I mean
in these cars, you gotta remember there are millions and
(09:38):
millions of dollars because they're they're one vehicle that the
company's building. It's it's not a cheap car to make
any any prototype, any concept car, is one of a
kind and it's it's all hand formed, handmade everything, unless
they're they happen to be taking from another platform, like
they may be using the chassis and the and the
rolling platform. Let's say the ende in the transmission that
(10:01):
you know, the drive train from another platform vehicle that
they have, and they're they're building up on top of that,
which is done. That is done often. Yeah, that's because
that's a time that's a money and time saver, because
to develop a brand new car from scratch, it takes
a lot of effort. I mean the amount of time
that that takes. By the time you got to the
show that you wanted to attend, if you could make
(10:21):
it to that show, you probably wouldn't be able to
make it because it would it would require so much
lead in time or lead time that you probably wouldn't
make it for whatever date you're trying to shoot for
in your car. Your your concept would look dated at
that point, right, So you know, it's easier to start
with a good base. Now, big manufacturers have a have
an advantage there whereas the one off companies you know
(10:43):
they uh, you know, they have a little bit more
of a struggle and be able to turn something around
quickly and be able to fund this vehicle and it's
kind of their one shot and hope it works well.
Plus also, yeah, exactly, that's dude to reading my mind
because for the smaller car manufacturers, basically everything they design
is going to be a concept car until they can
(11:04):
somehow leverage it into a production vehicle. And that's right.
And I I'm trying to think of a good example
that and just off the top of my head, I'm
thinking of maybe a Tera. Um they had they had
a vision, they had an idea of what they wanted
to do, they built a vehicle. Um, I don't know,
I don't have any idea what that original vehicle cost.
But they were then able to to shop that around
to investors and you know, make people believe in what
(11:27):
they were doing. And now they're they're getting ready for
production now, so um, you know, they're they're able to
turn that into dollars and hopefully we'll be able to
turn that the dollars into production and get the cars
coming out of the door. So technically, that's one concept
car that did make it into production. That's one, but
there's actually there's several examples but most don't make it right.
(11:48):
These are very few exceptions generally to this rule. And
maybe another reason why. Well, here let's talk about we've
gotta we've gotta the steps, right, yeah, we got the
steps here, and this is there's a um just kind
of an order of events that kind of have to happen.
I just give them to you real quickly and kind
of a loose idea of what what these involved. Um,
(12:10):
you got to figure out first what what your audience is,
what you want to achieve with this vehicle, what what
the what the goal is, and what you're trying to
accomplish with it, Like we want to sell this car
to pirates, pirates I heard, yeah, yeah, yeah, great idea.
Yeah hey I uh yeah, maybe maybe there's my application
for Ford right now? Perfect? Yeah, good, good work. That's
(12:32):
your best brainstorming. Then you go into h where the
group you know, kind of gathers together. We do that
here for ideas for articles and um podcast whatever. Um.
So you just kind of throw around ideas and you
choose whatever works the best or what everybody agrees that
would be a good idea for you know, what you
decided in the first case, which is you know, what
do you want to accomplish with this design? H. Then
you go into just a sketching phase where you know,
(12:55):
they draw it out either you know it's either on
paper it's cat design, or you know it's just that
there's a lot to from ways to do this now.
So the sketches are the next step because that's not
terribly expensive. It's still expensive, but not not terribly expensive.
If you get your designers working on it. This is
the h And still at this point, even a lot
can change. They can say I hate that, let's get
rid of it, Let's start again. This isn't what we
(13:16):
thought about. You know, we thought it was gonna look
like scrap it and start over where they could say
I really like that, but change this short And there's
a lot of that throughout this entire process. I mean
it changes, I would guess, right up until the point
where they're putting together the final show vehicle. Yeah. The
next step is modeling stage. And the modeling stage is
where they make either scale models which can be put
(13:38):
in the wind tunnel and tested just like a normal
you know, the full size vehicle can um There can
also be clay models which can also be scale, which
is usually what the way they do it first for
this model stage. UM. And then there's also UM A
you could do a tape model, which is a chart
paper that's on the side of the like in a wall.
You've probably I don't know if you've seen this or not,
(13:58):
maybe in UM motos of design studios they have a
it's like a big piece of graph paper, huge and
they do a full scale UM tape outline of the
vehicle on the wall, so you get a feel for
the height of the vehicle, that the dimensions of it,
the way the body's going. But it's two dimensional, it's
very flat. UM. Again, it's just tape on paper on
(14:18):
graph paper, and this can be changed and moved around.
UH so that you know, you can decide if you
want bigger wheels on that car, you want you want
the fender flares to go just a little bit higher
or lower, UM, the roofline, every everything, any any aspect
of that that profile the car you can change at
that point. UM. So again, just constant chain or continuous
change throughout this whole process. The next step UM there's
(14:42):
only six here really, but UM the full size Clay model,
and you've probably seen Clay modeling before and it's so
it's still interesting to me though that they do a
full size and clay. Well, the idea is that clay
is easy to manipulate, it easy to easy to take
away material, easy to add material. Um, It's it's unlike
(15:04):
let's say, if you did it with styrofoam, you know,
something like that. They do that, but that's the smaller models. Um,
if you if you take away styrofoam, it's a lot
more difficult to add styrofoam to that model than it
is to uh to add clay. Um, you know, I
don't even know if you can add styrofoam to a
funnel once he's want to done that. So, um, clay
(15:24):
is just you know, it just happens to be a
material that's eat lends itself to this type of design.
So they still do full scale clay models that they
then sometimes they cover them with with decals and make
them look like a real vehicle for photo shoots whatever.
You'll see them with completely blacked out windows because that's
clay behind there. And the thing it's you know, it's
it's sort of hollow. It's built on a on a frame.
You know, maybe even styrofoam and would um just a
(15:48):
you know, just a um kind of like a crate
almost that it's built on um. So it's not solid clay,
but um, it's very very thick. And then and then
the final are so once they've decided that, you know,
they like the like the design, they have to figure
out how they're gonna make this bring this to reality
because the clay is all about shaping the car and
getting exactly right the model. When you're actually building the car,
(16:12):
that's when you have to get every individual piece figured
out and put together. Exactly how am I gonna make
this this unique hood design work? Now? Am I gonna make? Um? Okay,
that's that's a great tailgate, But um, how am I
gonna make the latch that works for that? Because you know,
there's gonna be interference here with this glass. And oftentimes
they have to take the ideas that have never been
(16:33):
done before. And this is the part where they actually
do them, where they say, Okay, we are somehow going
to hinge this door to this part of the car
exactly yeah, and they've got to figure out how the
heck am I going to do that? It's never been
done before. Um, so the benefit of the stage now
the designers and engineers have is the the computer aided
(16:56):
design UM and there's a lot of different it's not
just cat it's there's a lot out of other types
of scatilla. There's all kinds of different um UM systems
that that allow you to to do this digitally before
you actually do a physical model. And UM you know
that that way that that way you can figure out
where interferences are going to happen. Let's say that hinge
doesn't work right and the body contacts the body in
(17:17):
another spot. Um, you can change that before you even
make one hinge UM so that you know it's it's
exactly right when you build it the first time. And
that's something that um, you know, they didn't have in
the past, designers didn't have the past. That must have
been difficult. Yeah, it had to have been difficult. I mean,
look at we we talked about the Mako Shark a
long time ago. Yes, remember the nineteen fifty and stretching
(17:39):
my member stingray concept. Yes, the silver car UM that car.
You know, of course, when they went came to building
the real car, that had to build that all by hand,
and they didn't have the additional help of you know,
the computer programs they have now, So that was just
trial and error until they got it right, and hopefully
they got it right the first or second or third time.
And that's where the guy kept coming back and sane,
(18:00):
no change the paint. No, that was actually the Mako Shark, right,
That was the did I see the Mako Shark? I meant, um,
I guess the one that the precursor to that. Um
in anyways that you're you're right. That was another concept
car that was a couple of years later, sixty two
I think it was, And um, there's sixty one, the
fifty nine concept I believe I got my notes here somewhere.
(18:22):
That was a sting ray and same thing, man, same thing.
You're you're exactly right. Um. A lot of that became production.
As we talked about with the Mako Shark, to make
this your example of the Mako Shark. It became reality
in the nineteen sixty three Corvette and you could see it.
I mean you clearly see where that came from from
(18:43):
that vehicle. So a lot of these happened that way.
The Dodge Vipers won the Prowlers, another Plymouth problem. Um,
I gotta got a list here him here. Yeah, but
let's let's see it wrap. Let's here's something that that
didn't make it. I mean there's a there's like the
Mercedes three hundred Life Jet, which is a three wheel
tilting machine thing. It looked like a motorcycle kind of
(19:06):
with a full body around it. Um, I see. There
was of course the Camaro made it, which is now.
There was the Ford Reflex in h two thousand six.
It kind of looked like a crossfire cruiser crossfire a
little bit, and the E the second E and reflexes
a three some kind of weird name. Um. Probably we
already talked about that. I think it was t t
(19:29):
rex was at Dodge. I think it was dodged the
three wheel as well. Right, that was six wheels, six wheel,
six wheels, the TV you're oh, you know what you're
thinking of. You're thinking of the motorcycle car, right, yeah, Oh,
I'm thinking I'm talking about a truck. There's this huge
truck that had six wheel drive, two wheels in the back,
and they weren't like the the I guess they call
it a dually design where the side by side. This
(19:50):
was one wheel in front of the other one. So
if you look at the profile, there were two wheels
in the bed of the vehicle and then one up front,
you know where the normal where they Yeah, that's that's interesting.
It was really cool and it had um I think
it was a five horsepower. It had a twenty six
thousand pound toying capacity. And again it had six wheels
or three per side, so it's this enormous work trucks.
(20:13):
It was huge. It's really huge. Um of course, the
Caliber was a concept car at one time, and that's
kind of the next generation Neon that that became reality.
Uh Nitro was one. Magnum s R T eight was
a concept at one point, was a concept at one point.
I've got a lot of crist here because that's the
site that I went to and I'm familiar with that
(20:34):
with that brand. But um Ford and GM they have
just as many, and there's you know, concepts coming from
Toileta and Honda and all over the place. Every manufacturer
does concept cars. Some do it with a little more
style than others. Um like um Citron. Citron has amazingly
just beautiful, beautiful concept cars. They're they're gorgeous but they
(20:57):
look so outlandish and they're just so so out there
that the likelihood that will become production is very slim.
You could just kind of tell when you look at
it right it's going to happen, or if it has
a chance at making it or not, how close to
production is it when it when it is a concept car. Exactly,
That's exactly it. Because I was thinking of this as
well while we were talking about the different cars that
(21:20):
have and have not made it from the limbo of
concept to you know, actual mass production. And one thing
that's very interesting is oftentimes the absolute favorite outlandish and
I think it's a perfect word for it, the absolute
favorite outlandish. Uh. Concept cars are never going to make
it into production because it's a huge risk to try to,
(21:43):
you know, to get the let's say you threw around
the number a couple million right or something or something right,
because we're at a point where we're realistically not building
something to sell it. We're building something to prove to
ourselves that a concept works or that we can give
our engineers a sandbox. Really and so if here's a
(22:05):
good example, UM Saturn had one called the flex, I'm
sure listener will correct me. It was like the flex
wheel or flex fire or something that The main thing
that I remember about this concept car is that had
a clam shale trunk. Clam shell excuse me, my Tennessee
is coming out and uh, and so one one half
(22:27):
of the trunk could open independently of another half. Yes,
and that's a cool idea. I loved the idea just
for the ease of use. But the problem is they're
never gonna be able to sell that for realistically because
there are new parts that have to be involved, you know,
there's right, there's not really an infrastructure for it. And
(22:48):
every time I think that every time a concept car
is defeated, you know, or ends up being one of
those fallen soldiers on the way to production it it's okay,
not every time, Scott, That's not fair. The majority of
the time it is because there's not a way to
produce it in a reasonable um at a reasonable price
(23:10):
point because of the parts involved or something, or it's
just too much of a risk to throw an entire
an entire factory behind it, right true, And um, you
know make a good point that you know a lot
of times they a lot of times they do end
up as these fallen soldiers on the way to production.
That's a good way to say that, because, um, the
(23:32):
pieces may the pieces may make it unobtainable. They maybe
make it something they just can't do. Um. But a
lot of times it's just public opinion and press opinion,
and you know, just saying that I just don't like it.
I just uhum, for whatever reason, it doesn't doesn't strike
my fancy, or that's a bad design, because like the
one that you're describing right now, what I thought of
(23:53):
initially was well, there's another scene right in the middle
of the car that you know, it can leak. There's
another another it's another thing, you know, point where water
can get in my trunk. But I'm sure that wasn't
the case. They probably designed it so that it was watertight,
and of course you know that they had good ceiling systems.
But I don't know. There's there's always gonna be something
that someone's gonna nitpick over, and maybe they'd say, like, well,
(24:14):
you know, it's a good thought, let's maybe some corporateate
into a different part of the car, Like maybe we
can turn that up on its side and use that
for the door design. The way they overlap or however
that worked. Um, I don't know. Public public opinion plays it,
you know, heavily into this in ninety nine. There's a
funny example in nineteen I'm almost done, really, I promise.
In they Pantiac had a concept car called the Rageous Okay,
(24:41):
Pontiac Rageous, and I happened to be there was the
press thing or whatever, you know, I worked there, and
one of the press people said the funniest line I
may have ever heard it. I still remember this all
the time. He said, because it was called rageous, because
it was supposed to be outrageous, right for up rageous right.
So the guy says, they shouldn't have called it the rags,
(25:04):
they should have called it ridiculous. And I thought that
was a perfect line, Like you know, it's like, yeah,
instead of being the rages, it should be ridiculus. You
know right away you knew what he's talking. It's like
that Homer Simpson card, Oh yeah, yeah, well the Homer
the Homer Homer. Yeah, that's uh, it was. I don't
know if the rag was it really was it real ridiculous?
(25:25):
You know? It was, yeah, it was whatever. I could
see it when I saw it, when I was there.
I saw it. Yeah, ridiculous, It's funny, and you know,
not to disparage them or anything. It was just another shot,
you know, it's another attempted and who knows, maybe there
are parts from the Rags that made it into other
Pontiac production vehicles. But I just don't know, because you
know that it may be something really really subtle that
(25:46):
that eventually made it into production that people did like,
where the design was great. So that happens. It happens
a lot, and that's that's a good positive place for
us to put this because the answer to the question
kind of about why these cars may lose their cool
while they have such a difficult time getting a production
is that they actually do make it. In different parts,
(26:11):
they partially make it because they're all they're sort of
a mixed tape of concepts, you know, and some of
these concepts, like some songs on a mixtape, are things
that people enjoy listening to or using this analogy is
confusing me. I think I'm I'm talking at myself into
a corner. That's all right, I'll get you out of
it here, ye yeah, get me out of it. Yeah.
They It's it's true that you know, there are percentage
(26:32):
of these things sometimes make it through. It's not always
all of them. And when you look at when you
look at a car on on the auto show floor,
you can determine you can almost see it. And there's
some of that are a little more outlantis than others.
But you can kind of tell which ones are nearly
production ready. I mean some of the cars when they
come out for their their unveiling, some of them are
pushed out. You know, they don't have an engine, they
(26:52):
don't have an interior. They're just a shell of a
car and it just rolls out and that. And I've
seen cars pushed onto the stage before. Um, I've seen
others make it out on the stage in their own
power and have to be pushed back. They I've also
seen them pushed because they don't have an engine, they
don't have the transmiss, they don't have anything interior, just
the body. Then there's other there's another stage where they
(27:12):
have an interior. It looks like a real vehicle. You know,
they've they've put their designers on the interior as well. Um.
Another good exercise for them, you know, to determine what
to do the next vehicle but um, but maybe it
doesn't have an engine. And then there's another step where
it has everything. It's a fully operational concept and it's
built on another platform, probably because that's a really expensive
(27:34):
one to make, right there, And when you're starting something
from scratch, unless that is going to be your next
production vehicle, and this is a this is yeah, and
this is something that you've really gotten behind with millions
and millions and millions of dollars, and you know this
is in development, this is gonna happen. I got it.
I've got a perfect way for us to end this
and maybe go into some more listener mail. Okay, So,
(27:55):
and I wasn't just pulling pulling it out a thin
air when we were Relider talking about this steps to
get building concept cars. Another thing that can happen that
can stop a concept car from getting to production is,
just like you said, public opinion, somebody who maybe has
been with a concept project for two years or something,
all of a sudden in the show room smacks their
(28:18):
forehead and goes, holy crap, pirates use boats, Why would
they want a car? You know what I mean? There's
there's this fundamental misunderstanding of an audience I would hope
that somebody thought that earlier, but you never know, you
never know, you never know that the Edel kind of
flew close to the sun like a chorus and very good,
(28:41):
very good. You brought a complete full circle there, Ben,
and I think, well, thank you. I hang out with
a pretty impressive podcaster that came out stuff you should know. Well, yeah,
you know they're cool too. They're cool too. Um. I
was talking about you trying to try to throw a
(29:01):
people positive energy your weight. I'm blushing. Do you want
to do some listener mail? I would love to do
listener maw. Okay, we'll keep this, uh, keep this pretty brief.
But John from Toronto writes in, and he raises some
great points Scott, uh, he says, and I think this
is more question for you. Uh, it says. A while back,
we're talking about maintenance and oil changes. He talked about
(29:21):
changing your oil every three thousand miles or five thousand
kilometers because he's Canadian, or six months. What's with the
six months date? When you start to use your oil,
does it start to break down on its own? For instance,
if it takes nine months to drive five thousand kilometers,
is that bad that's what he's asking. So he's it
sounds like he's basically asking if he doesn't drive three
(29:43):
thousand miles in six months, should he still changes. I've
always heard three thousand or three months, if that's the
oil manufacturers and so um, so, yeah, you gotta take that.
You gotta read your owners manual. It's usually longer period
of time between oil changes. But yeah, there is a
time limit. Uh, there's a there's a milege limit or
a time limit and whichever you arrive at first. It's
(30:04):
like a warranty. It's mileage at war time. So yeah,
if it's been six months, you need to get it
out of there, just clean it out because it's just
you know, the sediment or whatever. I don't I don't
know what if it starts breaking down on a molecular
level or what happens there. But um, there is a
time limit on it. You don't want to run old
oil in a car. Um, it's just a bad idea.
Yuh yeah, really, I don't know exactly the reason why
(30:25):
why that is, why the time limit, And again maybe
it's just to sell oil. I don't know. I'll have
to I'm gonna have to investigate it a little further.
But honestly, there's always there's it's it's always paired with
a time limit as well, and just just talk to
your man. The best thing to do call the manufacturer
find out what the recommendation is for the time limit
on on your oil, because you know, they may say
(30:47):
bring it in of course, because they want to sell
an oil change, But UM, get a reason why talk
to talk to the mechanic and say, you know, why
why is it that I have to change every six months,
even if it's just sitting in my garage because a
lot of people have weekend cars that never get to
three thousand miles here even and you know they may
have to change you will twice. Um, it's just what
(31:07):
you do. That's a good point. But also I'm sorry,
oh no, I was gonna say that the duration of
time and the um distance is a lot greater if
you start moving into these semisynthetics oral synthetics oil. So
I'm thinking that you know, maybe there is something with um,
the standard organic oil that does break down a little
faster than the semisynthetic or the or the full synthetic oils.
(31:29):
What a good point makes sense, right, I mean I
think you can even stretch and don't quote me on this,
but I thought that I've heard numbers highest fifteen thousand
four um synthetic oil fifteen thousand miles. What's really interesting
is John also points out that he's been reading that
in Europe they don't change the oil nearly is often,
so it's every ten to twenty thousand kilometers? Yeah? Really,
(31:50):
so that's six thousand Was that six thousand to uh
twelve thousand miles on or antic oil? Uh? He does
not specify the kind of oil or I think that's
what you're talking about. That oil is black when it
comes out of there. I imagine, so I think it
would be. I imagine if you're pushing it that long,
then uh, save a few bucks. I guess that's about
it for us today. Um, but what a what a
(32:12):
good topic to leave this on UM for any listeners.
Do you guys think that this oil thing is an
exaggeration about oil companies? Do you think that it is
a good idea to run a car that long without oil?
Or are there any other popular rules of thumbs about
cars that you would like to hear us answer? Run
it without new oil? Running without I had to jump
(32:34):
in because it's had to run a car without oil
any time, right, right? Really interested to know about the
time consideration, definitely, you know why, why is it? Why
is it six months? Why is it three months? I
think would be interested to know that. So if anybody knows,
hit me with it. And what's that email address? Ed
email addresses high speed stuff but how Stuff Works dot com.
(32:57):
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