January 22, 2019 • 32 mins
What is the multiverse and is it real?
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Do you ever wonder what your life would have been
like if you had made different choices? You mean, like
if I had tea this morning instead of coffee, Yeah,
I know. Like if six people had voted differently in
Florida in the year two thousand, well the whole world
would be different in that case. Sometimes I wonder, like
what would have happened if I didn't go on that
first day with my spouse, or you know, we went
to a different restaurant, or we went for coffee instead
(00:30):
of dinner, yeah, I know, or like if you had
um conceived your children one minute earlier or a minute later.
It's incredible and thinking about all the other different lives
you might have lived. But the amazing thing is that
there are some physicists out there that think that those
other us they might be real. They might be out there,
they might be living your other lives. And this is
(00:51):
not a theory or an idea. They think it might
be reality. That's right somewhere out there. There's another podcast
talking about whether you might be real. I am Poorhand
(01:16):
number one thou seventy six, and in this universe, I
am a cartoonists and I'm Daniel number zero and I'm
a particle physicist. I smashed particles together at the large
hay John Collider. Oh wow, so this time I get
we get Daniel number zero like the original. This is
the prototype. Yes, so you know it might not all
be functioning. There's still some bugs being worked out. This
(01:36):
is the beta version of Daniel Daniel zero point zero,
Daniel the mold Um And this is our podcast Daniel
and Jorge explain the universe. And this time we're not
just going to take the universe and explain it to
you in a way that actually makes sense. We're gonna
go bigger. We're gonna go beyond. We're gonna go multi
(01:57):
We're going plaid beyond the diverse, bigger than the universe.
That's right, bigger than the universe. We're going to think
about the depths of infinity. What is infinity? How far
can you go? How infinite is the universe? Are there
other universes out there? I know this sounds like a
crazy call in show. You might have a three in
the morning on an a M radio station, but it's
a real science podcast to be on the program. The
(02:25):
MULTIVERSEUS multivirus, multiverse, It's echoing through all those other universes, right,
that's right. Um, the multiverse is an amazing concept, mostly
because it gets you to think about the concept of infinity.
You know how if things really go on forever and
you get to try everything, then anything that's possible eventually
(02:45):
will happen, no matter how improbable, it's probably happening in
an infinite multiverse. That's right. That's the wonderful, mind bending
concept of the multiverse. That's what makes it such an attractive,
like philosophical idea. I mean, the multiverse is really penetrated
into into culture. And I know that because when I
was typing multiverse into my phone, it auto corrected for multiverse,
(03:08):
like that's a word in my phone's library, which means,
you know, it must be a real thing, right, So
not not multiplication, not, um, you know something basic the
multiverse was to go to with multi Yeah, it's a
really smart device, Like, oh, are you talking about the multiverse? Yeah,
let's complete the multiverse. My phone is totally ready for
this podcast. I know all about the multiverse. The machines. No,
(03:32):
that's right. So in today's episode, we thought we would
take the concept of the multiverse and break it down
for you, explain to you, what is it? Why is
it a real thing? Why do scientists talk about it?
And are they actually crazy? Is it even possible that
there's more than one universe out there? That's right? Doesn't
even make sense? And as usual, Daniel went out and
(03:52):
asked people on the street if they knew what the
multiverse was. Before you hear them, think to yourself, what
is your idea of the multiverse? Would you answer this question?
Here's what people had to say, do you know what
the multiverse is? Not? Really? Have you heard of the multiverse? No?
I haven't you heard of the multiverse? No? My impression
(04:16):
from having been around this kind of science for a
few years is that it's a bit fantastical and it
does not seem likely to be the truth. I think
of it as like a serious of like our universes
are like all kind of connected to the bar separate.
That's from comic books, isn't it okay? So most of
(04:36):
people didn't seem to know what the multiverse was, which
was surprising to me as a comics fan who was
very familiar with the DC Universe, multiverse and the Marvel multiverse.
That was my favorite answer. The one person who said
isn't that a thing from comic books? I love that answer.
I love the answer, and I should reveal a secret, Horry,
(04:56):
which is one of these answers was from my wife.
I will not tell you which one. I will not
tell you which one. And the for the purpose of
contemper of continuing her enonymity. But one of those is
her ANSWER's interesting? You mean the one with the beautiful voice, right,
the one where she's like, this is a ridiculous question,
and I can't believe you're interviewing me for your podcast.
(05:17):
So many better things to do, trying to make dinner here,
I make dinner. Excuse me, no dinner. I interviewed her
while I was making dinner anyway. Um, but a lot
of people, yeah, do they just haven't even heard of it, right,
Like some people haven't heard it at all. Yeah, it's
interesting because and this is one of these words that
you would think sort of explain itself, just with the
(05:37):
word multiverse, like a multiple universe, and nobody sort of
even try to guess. I don't know, I don't think
that explains itself. I mean, if you ask me the question,
what is on multiverse, I might say it's a poem
with multiple stanzas, you know, like multiverse, I wouldn't necessarily
think crazy physics theory that spans the depths of infinity
(05:58):
or comic book and constant. And you know, I have
a quibble with the word, you know, like if universe
is supposed to mean everything, then how can there by
definition be a multiverse? Right, Like you can't have multiple everything's.
It's like a uni universe. That's right. If I say
give me all your money, and you give me all
(06:19):
your money and then and then you still have money,
then you haven't really given me all your money. Right.
I want to rob. I want to rob the multibank.
What is the multiverse? The multiverse is a concept in
physics which tries to grapple with infinity and grapples with
(06:39):
infinity and multiple different ways. So there's the multiverse, but
it's actually multiple different multiverse theories, right, But they all
share one thing in common, which is that they're trying
to explain when there's an arbitrary nous. They're trying to
grapple with the fact that our universe seems random, like
it's this way and not that other way. And the
way they explained that is by suggesting maybe every way
(07:01):
is explored by the multiverse and we just happened to
live in this one. Right. And so when you find
something in the universe which seems like it could have
been different, and you'll wonder why is it this and
not something else, the multiverse is there to calling you
and say, well, maybe everything is explored somewhere, and there's
no reason for it to be this and not the other.
It's just random. Right. So that's kind of the reason
(07:22):
why physicists considerate. But as a concept, what does it mean.
It means multiple universes, right, that's it's a contraction of
multiple universes. Yeah, it means multiple universes. Um. But then again,
different physicists mean different things by by that. And so
there's a guy named Max tech Mark. He's a really
smart guy. I read his book. It's called Our Mathematically Universe,
(07:43):
and it's a fascinating book. It's like six pages. It's well,
it's well written, but in it he has a really
nice categorization of the different kinds of multiverses. So I
thought we'd follow that. Okay, so wait, there's like multi multiverses.
That's right, multi multi multiverse, the uni multi multi universe.
That's right, exactly. Um, they all have the same agent actually,
(08:05):
so you can just pay them all directly. Okay, So
there's what you're saying. There's a way to classify the
different versions of the idea of the multiverse. Yeah, that's right.
I feel like we're like three layers into the inception here,
be prepared for more levels. I talk about what it's like,
(08:25):
what is one What what is one version of the multiverse.
It's like the idea that there are multiple versions of
like like our universe is just one version of the universe,
and there might be other versions of the universe out there. Right,
that's the kind of basic idea, right, that's the whole
overall arching framework. But what the multi means depends on
what you mean by the uni. Right. So for example,
(08:47):
so let's get concrete, right, Um, some people think about
the observable universe is our universe. That's just everything we
can see, right. Remember you can't see the whole universe
because light doesn't travel infinitely fast. It travels its speed
of light, and so you can only see as far
as light has had time to travel in the history
of the universe. Right, it's all everything we can see
(09:07):
because there might be stuff that we can't see in
the universe exactly, there's other stuff out there. Now, some
people think, oh, the multiverse is all these different bubbles.
There's like my observable universe, and then somewhere super far away,
maybe there's another me, and that other me has an
observable universe that's centered around them, Okay, And so from
that concept, the multiverse is probing the fact that the
(09:30):
universe seems to have started randomly, Like why do we
have the Milky Way? And why does the Milky Way
look the way it does and not like another galaxy.
You can trace that all the way back to like
the initial conditions of the universe, the arrangement of molecules
in the very very early universe, which inevitably led to
the Milky Way. What if that arrangement had been a
(09:50):
tiny bit different, right, you had coffee instead of tu
had had taken that break differently, or whatever, some tiny
thing had been different than the Milky Way would look different.
So that simplest multiverse is just the way of saying
every possible initial condition for the universe started somewhere else,
and so all those other possibilities might be out there
there's a version of Jorge, you know, with the blonde hair,
(10:13):
and there's a version of the of the Earth where
there's big lying blue dragons streaking through the skyle. Right,
But you're sort of assuming that the space we're in
our universe goes on forever infinity. Yes, And you're saying
that a version of the multiverse is one in which
if you just keep going in one direction, at some point,
things will start to kind of repeat itself, but maybe
(10:34):
not quite the same way, that's right, because they start
from different initial conditions, right, Okay, but there's still the
same universe. It's the same space, right. Okay, So that's
one idea. It's the same space and the same laws
of physics. But remember what is the concept that that answers? What? What?
What problem in physics? Does that address the problem in
physics and addresses is the fact that, you know, we
(10:56):
don't know why we have this set of initial conditions
and not some other. Right, one of the particles that
started off this observable universe arranged in that way and
not another. And this is just the way of saying
it doesn't matter because every possibility is tried, so we
don't have to answer that question anymore? But well, why
do physicists have so much trouble with this concept? Like
why couldn't just we just be a random role of
(11:16):
to die? And that's just the way it is. Why
does it need whether is it? Why does there need
to be every possible role of to die? Are you
you're basically asking me why do physicists look for answers? Right?
I mean that's the job. You know, you look at
the university and say, why is it this and not that?
Is there meaning to it? Or is it random? Right?
Because if there's meaning to it, then you can get
(11:37):
some inside. You could have just said, hey, look there's
a hundred elements in the periodic table and that's all
there is. And why that hundred elements? I don't know,
it's just random? Right? Well? I mean no, I mean
in the sense that it could be. It's like I
have five dollars in my pocket, and you know, I
could spend time thinking about why I have five dollars,
or I could spend an infinite amount amount of time
thinking about why I don't have six dollars, seven dollars,
(11:57):
eight dollars, ten dollars. Do you know what I mean? Like,
why can't I just be happy that with the fact
that I have five dollars. Well, I think you hit
the nail. The head physicists are never happened. That's the problem.
The comdue to our deep seated depression that we need
to answer this question. No, we want to know why,
and and the answer it's just a random choice, is
not satisfied. Okay, but this seems to be like the
(12:18):
most vanilla version of the multiverse. You're just saying that
the multiverse. One version of the multiverse issues that it's
so big and that there's sort of different neighborhoods where
different things could have happened. That's right, So that's the
most vanilla. So now let's go to chocolate chip. Let's
go to the slightly more interesting multiverse flavor. What if
(12:38):
in other parts of space, deep deep, deep, far away,
maybe it wasn't just the initial conditions of where the
part how the particles were arranged, but maybe the constants
of the laws of physics themselves are different. Like what
if the mass of an electron is different bijillion light
years away, or the strength of gravity is different bijillion
(12:59):
light years away, Because there's nothing that says that's not possible.
There's nothing that says that's not possible. Because these numbers,
we have no reason to explain what the mass of
the electron is, we have no reason to explain why
gravity has the strength that does a right And so
you think, well, maybe they're just random. So that's the
way to answer to say, well, oh, it's just a
random number. And every possibility is tried eventually, and we're
(13:21):
just in the one that happens to be this one.
We're just in the neighborhood where the electron ways, you know,
point six ev exactly. And there's two varieties of this one, right,
there's either the laws of physics are different somewhere else
in our very very large universe, or you have like
different spaces, so like these universes are not connected, Like
(13:42):
there's the space of our universe and somehow there's another
universe with a different set of laws of physics because
the masses of the electron at different, the strength of
gravity is different, and those spaces don't necessarily have to
be connected. What do you mean, like you can't travel
in a straight line from one area to the other
one because something would stop you. Yeah, that one makes
me a little bit more sense, because it's weird to
(14:05):
have different masses of the electrons in the same space.
I mean, I guess it's possible, right, but it's seems
somehow more comforting if those other universes with different laws
of physics were somehow disconnected from hours. Okay, but what
would stop you from going to that other universe? Well,
if it's not connected to ours, you just can't get there,
you know. I Mean, we had a whole podcast about
like the shape of space, right, and we're talking about
(14:26):
how space could be infinite, or it could be closed.
It could be that you could travel forever and come
back to where you started, etcetera. It's like close pockets
of space. Yeah, it could also be disconnected, right, you
could have two separate pockets of space that you just
can't travel from one to the other, like bubbles of space. Right.
And then if you have two, you could have three,
(14:46):
you could have four, you could have a jillion, right.
Why not? There, it's on sale, take as many as
your life. Uh. Okay, So let's get into the other
types of multiverses. But first let's take a quick break. Okay.
(15:10):
So we're in the chocolate chip flavor multiverse where we're
literally the universes are like chocolate chips, you know, like that,
you're like little chocolate chips sprinkled in in on in
the ice cream of infinity. Yeah, exactly, and each each
one could be infinite, right, and then you just you
can think of them as like layers in a pastry,
(15:30):
or you can think of those chocolate chips or something,
or you could think maybe Daniels should have eaten something
before he did this podcast, or because all of his
analogies seemed to be about food. Um, but yeah, that's
the general idea, okay, that that there could be other
universes with different constants of the laws of physics, which
would have, you know, a big impact, because if the
electron wait a different amount, everything would be different, if
(15:51):
neutrons that different, if the force of gravity or the
force of the strong force was different the place, everything
would look different. Oh, I see, because these all these numbers,
you know, these constants in the laws of physics, they
seem to be random. It's kind of what you're saying, right, Well,
they we don't have explanations for them. That's not the
same as their random, right. One explanation for not knowing
(16:12):
why the numbers are they are what they are is, oh,
they're random, but there is no explanation, and so we
can just sort of put the question aside. And I see,
it's possible that the electron weighs as much because of
some mathematical fundamental, you know, construction of the universe. Yeah, exactly.
Like say, for example, I lose two hundred bucks, and
(16:32):
the very same day you tell me, hey, look I
found two hundred bucks. Well that could be random, right,
or there could be a simpler explanation, like you owe
me two hundred bucks. Huh, yeah right. You don't sound persuaded,
you know, I'm saying this is all hypothetical, and yeah, exactly,
so you know I actually three hundred bucks. Okay, I'll
(16:53):
wait for the check. Um, I want to pay an
ice cream please. Um. The goal of physics, remember, is
to explain these things. It's not just to say, well,
that's kind of a mystery head scratch, maybe it's random, right,
is to say, what could explain it? Is there a
deeper theory of physics that doesn't have these arbitrary numbers
in it, right, that can explain why the electron is
(17:14):
the way it is that would be a better theory
of physics. Like just saying it's random. It's just not
satisfactory to a physicist. That's right. To me, it's not
satisfactory at all. It's like saying, stop asking questions. Okay.
So then you have to posit the idea that maybe
it's not random. And if it's not random, one possible
(17:34):
explanation is that they all exist. You have to positive
is random and then right, and that every possibility is
tried somewhere, and that this ours was just chosen randomly.
Oh I see, okay, all right, yeah, alright, alright, so
let's go past chocolate chip. Okay, what's another flavor of multiverse?
This is I would say this is like the rainbow
(17:56):
Sherbet flavor of the multiverse. Flavors of multiverse. You know
there's only four um. This one is the quantum mechanics multiverse.
This one says, you know what happens when a particle
has to make a random choice. Right, the Shortinger's cat
is either dead or alive, and it's random. Right, A
particle goes to the less split of the right slit.
It's random. It's very uncomfortable for there to be no
(18:19):
reason why it chooses one and not the other. So
this is a version of quantum mechanics called the multi
world's hypothesis, called the world's interpretation. Where both happened, the
universe splits, and both things happened. The particle goes into
the less slit and the right slit. Shortinger's cat is
dead in one universe and alive in the other one.
So every quantum interaction generates another universe where the other
(18:43):
random thing has happened. So every choice of every electron
and quantum particle in all of existence, every time it
makes a decision, generates a whole new universe. Yeah, it's
not a tiny theory, right, I mean we judge these
theories based on like how simple are they? How compact
link can you explain everything? And this theory generates a
(19:03):
whole entire universe for every particle interaction. Ever, right, that's
a lot of universes, So it's not a whole lot
of simplicity. Is the idea that they like these things
get generated or is it just that everything, every possibility
exists at the same time. Do you know what I mean? Like,
is it kind of like it actually pops into existence?
Is it into the past as well as the future. Yeah,
(19:26):
I think they are created in that moment. They only
start from when the choice happen because they split, right,
So the number of universes is growing and we all
just exist at the same time, like in the same
spot in the universe in reality, do you know what
I mean? Like are we on top of each other?
That's not a well defined question, right, We're not in
(19:47):
the same space because you know, our past is different
from the other universe is past, right in our in
our past the cat is dead or in their past
the cat is alive, and so we can't interact with
them at all. They would be like in a different space.
I mean there's it would be a universe be just
as valid. There would be ice cream and pretzels and
all sorts of stuff in that universe as well, although
(20:08):
it would just be slightly different and we can't travel
from one to the other. They're like causally disconnected, right
because they have a different past history, So you can't
get from one of the other. So where is that one?
That question requires you to like put both of them
in some space and then answer the question of how
to get from one to the other. But they're just different,
you know, they're like it's like asking how close is
(20:30):
the page in this book to that page and that
other book in China? You know, like there are different books,
you know, right. Yeah, So that's the quantum mechanical and
that was sort of mind blowing. And before people think
that's ridiculous, remember that there is no satisfactory answer to
the question and quantum mechanics of how that randomness has
chosen Why the electron turn left and right? Yes, exactly
(20:53):
why I left and not right? Yeah? And so that
randomness is frustrating, right, and you'd like to have an answer,
and the answer we have from quantum mechanics. The Cope
Hagan interpretation, the alternative to the multi worlds says that
it makes a choice. The universe throws a dice, right,
Like that's kind of crazy. Also, you know, like where
is this dice? Who's in charge of throwing it? How
does it work? You know? Is it really random? Why
(21:14):
not strange? I find it natural? Doesn't? You know? Like
the universe just made the decision and that's what it is.
You like to live in a very decisive universe. It
just like makes forward, you know. Um, Okay, so so
that's the quantum mechanics multi world version of a multiverse. Yeah, exactly.
(21:38):
And so you're saying there's a fourth type, right, so
we're getting crazier and crazier. Yeah, that was the rainbow
shirt butt. So now where it's like, I don't know,
this is the version of the multiverse where you like um,
empty the freezer and mix everything together in a blender
rainbow rainbow shirt, but pistachio, right, put in some liquorice
in there. This is the idea that every possible theory
(22:02):
of physics has its own universe, right. And to think
about this you have to think about the relationship between
physics and math. Right, So we use math to describe
what's happening in the physical universe, right, But sometimes you
can come up with a theory that doesn't reflect what's
actually happening. Right, And this happens all the time. Theorists
physicists come up with ideas like, oh, maybe the universe
(22:23):
works this way. I have a beautiful mathematical theory which
could describe a universe. But then they go when they
check it, and no, doesn't describe our universe. F equals
three m A yeah, and that would be a theory
of a universe, but it wouldn't describe what's happening around me. Yeah, exactly.
I mean not that specific example, but that's the general
idea construct a different set of physical laws that are
(22:46):
self consistent. Right. They have to be self consistent, non contradictory,
and have all the right mathematical properties. There are more
theories of physics than than just the one that describes
our universe. Right, So Max teg Mark, he thinks that
the universe is mathematical, right. That that because the universe
can be represented by a mathematical construct, which is, you know,
(23:07):
laws of physics. That means that it is those laws
of physics, which means that if there are other laws
of physics that you could put together, they also have
their own real universes out there, and somewhere out there
there is a universe following f equals three m A
or whatever. The other laws of physics are not just
the constant in our formulation of the laws of physics,
(23:29):
but just like a whole different equation. Yeah, I mean,
imagine far in the future we've answered all the questions
about the constants. We know why the electron has a mass.
It is why the Higgs is with gravity all this stuff,
we still have the laws themselves. We have to wonder,
like why these laws? Why does the universe follow these
laws and not these other very reasonable set of laws
that my math professor were there put together and could
(23:50):
work for his own universe, right, really, why these are
not some other? So like what are some things that
could change mathematically? Do you know what I mean? Like
F doesn't equal? Is that the only physics equation you know?
Or you keep going back to that one. I'm gonna
challenge you give me another physics equation. I mean, I
could say things like the lagrange and and potential energy,
but you know, I'm not sureing a lot of people
(24:11):
to understand that that's exactly right. Like there are i mean,
even the whole concept of how energy works, right, Like
we talked to another podcast about the theory of everything,
how everything we're discovering is just the consequence of the
universe at its lowest level. You know, is the universe
at its lowest level strings and they have some interaction
and everything follows from that. Or are the tiny quantum
(24:32):
loops or are they point particles in the way they
interact everything that that the that makes the universe university
comes from its basic structure, and so you could ask,
like it could its basic structure be different because those
rules of interaction be different, right, Um? And yeah, and
you can you can start from a totally different point
and say I'm gonna build a universe out of tiny puppies, right,
(24:53):
and they interact in this way, and then you can
get a universe. Right, Like, build a universe. What would
it look like? Maybe it wouldn't be very interesting. Maybe
would have this rich, complex structure that we have right, right,
but it's a valid universe. Do you have a universe
with nothing in it? A completely empty universe? Right? There?
You go, no nothing in it, no interactions. Boom, there's
a lot of there's a theory of physics that might
(25:14):
be out there, right, that's the idea. That's the idea
that if there's a consistent set of laws, then it exists. Right.
That would be like the you know, the all black chocolate,
that deep chocolate, nothing in it. Okay, So let me
see if I can break this down. There's four kinds
of multiverses. The first kind of multiverse is one where
it's just so big that you you can live in
(25:35):
different neighborhoods of it, and which might be different versions
of each other, just because space is infinite and you're
at some point going to repeat this universe, but maybe
slightly different within our own still sort of universe space exactly.
And those different neighborhoods are all different because they started
slightly differently in the very beginning, and that's the randomness
that that first Vanilli multiverse is exploring, Okay, very beginning
(25:59):
of how the particles were put together. Okay, version number two,
the chocolate chip is plays of the chocolate chip. Yeah,
the chocolate chip is that maybe there are other pockets
of in our universe where the constants of our the
loss of physics are different. And then there was a version,
the quantum mechanics version, where that says every time that
you open the box and the cat dies, that generates
(26:20):
a whole universe. And there's one where the loss of
physics itself, the math changes from university universe, that's right. Yeah,
And for comic book fans, we could have a level five,
which is Marvel universe versus DC universe versus independent upstart
comic universe. Yeah, but then you had infinite crisis on
infinite Earth that all collapse and then you have to
(26:41):
reboot fifty two a few years ago, and there's a
version of the universe where the DC movies are actually good.
But you know those are I like the DC movies? Now, yes,
they are good. I am pro DC. Oh man, you
are the you are the anti Daniel. That's what We're
gonna have a d C versus Marvel throat down. Um.
(27:06):
On that note, let's take a quick break. So those
are That's kind of the breakdown of all the different
kinds of multiverses. But at the course, the same idea
(27:27):
is that there are different versions of our universe out
there in existence. That's right. My big question is are
we ever going to know if these other universes exist? Like,
is it even possible to verify that they're there, that
they exist, and could we get there? Ever? The short
answer is probably not right, And the long answer is
(27:48):
it depends on the flavor of multiverse we're talking about.
The simplest one. We're talking about, you know, things that
are just sort of far away. Then yeah, you just
wait long enough and eventually light from there will reach
us and we will see that other version of you
that married that other person, and you know, I didn't
have kids and gets to spend their money on cool
bicycles and cars and all sorts of stuff. And you
(28:08):
can answer the question, what I've been happier, Well, if
you could zip through the universe, you would eventually find
another Earth. Yeah. If the universe really is infinite and
the initial conditions are random, then everything that's possible will
happen and you just have to go far enough away.
Max Techbar tried to calculate, like how far is it
away from us? Is that other you? You've got some
(28:30):
ridiculous numbers like ten to the ten to the one hundred,
So like, I mean, that's a number that's bigger than
I can even imagine. Remember it's ten to the eighties,
and there were particles in the universe, So ten to
the ten to the one hundred is like a good,
good jigabillion. But in principle, that person is out there.
It's out there, it's just separated by distance from us. Yeah,
(28:50):
so that's that's one possible multiversity you could actually test,
but it would take forever and so it's not really satisfying.
The other flavors are mostly different races, you know, like
the ones where the laws of physics are different or
quantum mechanics has made a different choice. Those universes we
can't ever visit, we can't interact with them. Almost by construction,
there's no way to interact with them. And so if
(29:12):
you can't interact with them, you can't like send a
probe or get data from them. You know, then there's
no way to ever prove that they exist. You know,
there's no way to ever say here, we can visit them,
or we can we can demonstrate conclusively that it's real
and not just an idea, like we can't ever touch it,
touch that that those other universes or get there. But
you're saying that you're telling me the other today that
(29:34):
we might be able to prove mathematically that they exist. Yeah,
there's a nice argument um by several people, including Sean Carroll,
that says that what if you had a theory of
physics which required the multiverse? Right, what if the only
theory of physics we could come up with here require
there to be other universes, and the hard work there
is figuring that out. Meaning in theory, you could know
(29:56):
that there is a multiverse and that other multiverses exist,
but you could still not be able to touch and
or visit them. Yeah, exactly. It's hard to come up
with a theory that absolutely requires the existence of the multiverse.
The unique solution to the theory is that the multiverse exists.
So in principle, I think Sean is right, it's possible,
but I think it's very difficult to construct that kind
(30:18):
of theory to prove the multiverse exists. So so it
kind of seems like it's kind of if we can't
ever go to these other universes or visit them. Um,
it's almost like it's pretty much just the U universe,
you know, Like that's right, the one we have is
pretty much it for us. It's pretty much the only
one we have, right for all practice rises, and I
(30:41):
think that's where we should focus. And the reason I'm
down on the multiverse is that I feel like a
little bit it's a it's giving up, you know, it's saying, Okay,
we don't know what the mass of the electron is,
but maybe there is no answer. Maybe the electron is
different here and somewhere else, and so let's just stop.
And I never want to stop asking, right, I always
want to say, maybe there's another theory explains it. Maybe
there's a way to unravel this mystery. So the multiverse
(31:04):
and the entropic principle, it's a way of sort of
shrugging and saying, and that's not very signed. Do you
want to keep taking that whole look for that one
sort of unifying theory. So far, we've been making progress
so far, we've figured things out. So far, when things
have seemed inexplicable, we'd rerealized why they had to be
(31:24):
that way, and it turned out there could have been
no other way because we understood something in a level
deeper which explained it. So I think the multiverse we're
gonna look back on a hundred years and laughed, you know,
and Wenna say, all those guys had no idea what
was going on. Everything they thought was random was determined
by laws of physics they just hadn't discovered yet. But
I think you're right. I think the lesson is to
(31:44):
really focus on the one universe we have. You know,
that's the only one I've got, So I'm going to
spend my time trying to figure it out. So make
your choices carefully. That's right, That's right because you only
have one go around so far until physics finds the multiples.
All right, thank you for joining us. I hope you
enjoyed that, or I hope there's a version of the
(32:06):
universe where you enjoyed that and I understood it as well.
See you next time. Thanks for listening. If you still
have a question after listening to all these explanations, please
drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you.
(32:26):
You can find us at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at
Daniel and Jorge That's one word, or email us at
Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com.
Do you ever wonder what your life would have been
like if you had made different choices? You mean, like
if I had tea this morning instead of coffee, Yeah,
I know. Like if six people had voted differently in
Florida in the year two thousand, well the whole world
would be different in that case. Sometimes I wonder, like
what would have happened if I didn't go on that
first day with my spouse, or you know, we went
to a different restaurant, or we went for coffee instead
(00:30):
of dinner, yeah, I know, or like if you had
um conceived your children one minute earlier or a minute later.
It's incredible and thinking about all the other different lives
you might have lived. But the amazing thing is that
there are some physicists out there that think that those
other us they might be real. They might be out there,
they might be living your other lives. And this is
(00:51):
not a theory or an idea. They think it might
be reality. That's right somewhere out there. There's another podcast
talking about whether you might be real. I am Poorhand
(01:16):
number one thou seventy six, and in this universe, I
am a cartoonists and I'm Daniel number zero and I'm
a particle physicist. I smashed particles together at the large
hay John Collider. Oh wow, so this time I get
we get Daniel number zero like the original. This is
the prototype. Yes, so you know it might not all
be functioning. There's still some bugs being worked out. This
(01:36):
is the beta version of Daniel Daniel zero point zero,
Daniel the mold Um And this is our podcast Daniel
and Jorge explain the universe. And this time we're not
just going to take the universe and explain it to
you in a way that actually makes sense. We're gonna
go bigger. We're gonna go beyond. We're gonna go multi
(01:57):
We're going plaid beyond the diverse, bigger than the universe.
That's right, bigger than the universe. We're going to think
about the depths of infinity. What is infinity? How far
can you go? How infinite is the universe? Are there
other universes out there? I know this sounds like a
crazy call in show. You might have a three in
the morning on an a M radio station, but it's
a real science podcast to be on the program. The
(02:25):
MULTIVERSEUS multivirus, multiverse, It's echoing through all those other universes, right,
that's right. Um, the multiverse is an amazing concept, mostly
because it gets you to think about the concept of infinity.
You know how if things really go on forever and
you get to try everything, then anything that's possible eventually
(02:45):
will happen, no matter how improbable, it's probably happening in
an infinite multiverse. That's right. That's the wonderful, mind bending
concept of the multiverse. That's what makes it such an attractive,
like philosophical idea. I mean, the multiverse is really penetrated
into into culture. And I know that because when I
was typing multiverse into my phone, it auto corrected for multiverse,
(03:08):
like that's a word in my phone's library, which means,
you know, it must be a real thing, right, So
not not multiplication, not, um, you know something basic the
multiverse was to go to with multi Yeah, it's a
really smart device, Like, oh, are you talking about the multiverse? Yeah,
let's complete the multiverse. My phone is totally ready for
this podcast. I know all about the multiverse. The machines. No,
(03:32):
that's right. So in today's episode, we thought we would
take the concept of the multiverse and break it down
for you, explain to you, what is it? Why is
it a real thing? Why do scientists talk about it?
And are they actually crazy? Is it even possible that
there's more than one universe out there? That's right? Doesn't
even make sense? And as usual, Daniel went out and
(03:52):
asked people on the street if they knew what the
multiverse was. Before you hear them, think to yourself, what
is your idea of the multiverse? Would you answer this question?
Here's what people had to say, do you know what
the multiverse is? Not? Really? Have you heard of the multiverse? No?
I haven't you heard of the multiverse? No? My impression
(04:16):
from having been around this kind of science for a
few years is that it's a bit fantastical and it
does not seem likely to be the truth. I think
of it as like a serious of like our universes
are like all kind of connected to the bar separate.
That's from comic books, isn't it okay? So most of
(04:36):
people didn't seem to know what the multiverse was, which
was surprising to me as a comics fan who was
very familiar with the DC Universe, multiverse and the Marvel multiverse.
That was my favorite answer. The one person who said
isn't that a thing from comic books? I love that answer.
I love the answer, and I should reveal a secret, Horry,
(04:56):
which is one of these answers was from my wife.
I will not tell you which one. I will not
tell you which one. And the for the purpose of
contemper of continuing her enonymity. But one of those is
her ANSWER's interesting? You mean the one with the beautiful voice, right,
the one where she's like, this is a ridiculous question,
and I can't believe you're interviewing me for your podcast.
(05:17):
So many better things to do, trying to make dinner here,
I make dinner. Excuse me, no dinner. I interviewed her
while I was making dinner anyway. Um, but a lot
of people, yeah, do they just haven't even heard of it, right,
Like some people haven't heard it at all. Yeah, it's
interesting because and this is one of these words that
you would think sort of explain itself, just with the
(05:37):
word multiverse, like a multiple universe, and nobody sort of
even try to guess. I don't know, I don't think
that explains itself. I mean, if you ask me the question,
what is on multiverse, I might say it's a poem
with multiple stanzas, you know, like multiverse, I wouldn't necessarily
think crazy physics theory that spans the depths of infinity
(05:58):
or comic book and constant. And you know, I have
a quibble with the word, you know, like if universe
is supposed to mean everything, then how can there by
definition be a multiverse? Right, Like you can't have multiple everything's.
It's like a uni universe. That's right. If I say
give me all your money, and you give me all
(06:19):
your money and then and then you still have money,
then you haven't really given me all your money. Right.
I want to rob. I want to rob the multibank.
What is the multiverse? The multiverse is a concept in
physics which tries to grapple with infinity and grapples with
(06:39):
infinity and multiple different ways. So there's the multiverse, but
it's actually multiple different multiverse theories, right, But they all
share one thing in common, which is that they're trying
to explain when there's an arbitrary nous. They're trying to
grapple with the fact that our universe seems random, like
it's this way and not that other way. And the
way they explained that is by suggesting maybe every way
(07:01):
is explored by the multiverse and we just happened to
live in this one. Right. And so when you find
something in the universe which seems like it could have
been different, and you'll wonder why is it this and
not something else, the multiverse is there to calling you
and say, well, maybe everything is explored somewhere, and there's
no reason for it to be this and not the other.
It's just random. Right. So that's kind of the reason
(07:22):
why physicists considerate. But as a concept, what does it mean.
It means multiple universes, right, that's it's a contraction of
multiple universes. Yeah, it means multiple universes. Um. But then again,
different physicists mean different things by by that. And so
there's a guy named Max tech Mark. He's a really
smart guy. I read his book. It's called Our Mathematically Universe,
(07:43):
and it's a fascinating book. It's like six pages. It's well,
it's well written, but in it he has a really
nice categorization of the different kinds of multiverses. So I
thought we'd follow that. Okay, so wait, there's like multi multiverses.
That's right, multi multi multiverse, the uni multi multi universe.
That's right, exactly. Um, they all have the same agent actually,
(08:05):
so you can just pay them all directly. Okay, So
there's what you're saying. There's a way to classify the
different versions of the idea of the multiverse. Yeah, that's right.
I feel like we're like three layers into the inception here,
be prepared for more levels. I talk about what it's like,
(08:25):
what is one What what is one version of the multiverse.
It's like the idea that there are multiple versions of
like like our universe is just one version of the universe,
and there might be other versions of the universe out there. Right,
that's the kind of basic idea, right, that's the whole
overall arching framework. But what the multi means depends on
what you mean by the uni. Right. So for example,
(08:47):
so let's get concrete, right, Um, some people think about
the observable universe is our universe. That's just everything we
can see, right. Remember you can't see the whole universe
because light doesn't travel infinitely fast. It travels its speed
of light, and so you can only see as far
as light has had time to travel in the history
of the universe. Right, it's all everything we can see
(09:07):
because there might be stuff that we can't see in
the universe exactly, there's other stuff out there. Now, some
people think, oh, the multiverse is all these different bubbles.
There's like my observable universe, and then somewhere super far away,
maybe there's another me, and that other me has an
observable universe that's centered around them, Okay, And so from
that concept, the multiverse is probing the fact that the
(09:30):
universe seems to have started randomly, Like why do we
have the Milky Way? And why does the Milky Way
look the way it does and not like another galaxy.
You can trace that all the way back to like
the initial conditions of the universe, the arrangement of molecules
in the very very early universe, which inevitably led to
the Milky Way. What if that arrangement had been a
(09:50):
tiny bit different, right, you had coffee instead of tu
had had taken that break differently, or whatever, some tiny
thing had been different than the Milky Way would look different.
So that simplest multiverse is just the way of saying
every possible initial condition for the universe started somewhere else,
and so all those other possibilities might be out there
there's a version of Jorge, you know, with the blonde hair,
(10:13):
and there's a version of the of the Earth where
there's big lying blue dragons streaking through the skyle. Right,
But you're sort of assuming that the space we're in
our universe goes on forever infinity. Yes, And you're saying
that a version of the multiverse is one in which
if you just keep going in one direction, at some point,
things will start to kind of repeat itself, but maybe
(10:34):
not quite the same way, that's right, because they start
from different initial conditions, right, Okay, but there's still the
same universe. It's the same space, right. Okay, So that's
one idea. It's the same space and the same laws
of physics. But remember what is the concept that that answers? What? What?
What problem in physics? Does that address the problem in
physics and addresses is the fact that, you know, we
(10:56):
don't know why we have this set of initial conditions
and not some other. Right, one of the particles that
started off this observable universe arranged in that way and
not another. And this is just the way of saying
it doesn't matter because every possibility is tried, so we
don't have to answer that question anymore? But well, why
do physicists have so much trouble with this concept? Like
why couldn't just we just be a random role of
(11:16):
to die? And that's just the way it is. Why
does it need whether is it? Why does there need
to be every possible role of to die? Are you
you're basically asking me why do physicists look for answers? Right?
I mean that's the job. You know, you look at
the university and say, why is it this and not that?
Is there meaning to it? Or is it random? Right?
Because if there's meaning to it, then you can get
(11:37):
some inside. You could have just said, hey, look there's
a hundred elements in the periodic table and that's all
there is. And why that hundred elements? I don't know,
it's just random? Right? Well? I mean no, I mean
in the sense that it could be. It's like I
have five dollars in my pocket, and you know, I
could spend time thinking about why I have five dollars,
or I could spend an infinite amount amount of time
thinking about why I don't have six dollars, seven dollars,
(11:57):
eight dollars, ten dollars. Do you know what I mean? Like,
why can't I just be happy that with the fact
that I have five dollars. Well, I think you hit
the nail. The head physicists are never happened. That's the problem.
The comdue to our deep seated depression that we need
to answer this question. No, we want to know why,
and and the answer it's just a random choice, is
not satisfied. Okay, but this seems to be like the
(12:18):
most vanilla version of the multiverse. You're just saying that
the multiverse. One version of the multiverse issues that it's
so big and that there's sort of different neighborhoods where
different things could have happened. That's right, So that's the
most vanilla. So now let's go to chocolate chip. Let's
go to the slightly more interesting multiverse flavor. What if
(12:38):
in other parts of space, deep deep, deep, far away,
maybe it wasn't just the initial conditions of where the
part how the particles were arranged, but maybe the constants
of the laws of physics themselves are different. Like what
if the mass of an electron is different bijillion light
years away, or the strength of gravity is different bijillion
(12:59):
light years away, Because there's nothing that says that's not possible.
There's nothing that says that's not possible. Because these numbers,
we have no reason to explain what the mass of
the electron is, we have no reason to explain why
gravity has the strength that does a right And so
you think, well, maybe they're just random. So that's the
way to answer to say, well, oh, it's just a
random number. And every possibility is tried eventually, and we're
(13:21):
just in the one that happens to be this one.
We're just in the neighborhood where the electron ways, you know,
point six ev exactly. And there's two varieties of this one, right,
there's either the laws of physics are different somewhere else
in our very very large universe, or you have like
different spaces, so like these universes are not connected, Like
(13:42):
there's the space of our universe and somehow there's another
universe with a different set of laws of physics because
the masses of the electron at different, the strength of
gravity is different, and those spaces don't necessarily have to
be connected. What do you mean, like you can't travel
in a straight line from one area to the other
one because something would stop you. Yeah, that one makes
me a little bit more sense, because it's weird to
(14:05):
have different masses of the electrons in the same space.
I mean, I guess it's possible, right, but it's seems
somehow more comforting if those other universes with different laws
of physics were somehow disconnected from hours. Okay, but what
would stop you from going to that other universe? Well,
if it's not connected to ours, you just can't get there,
you know. I Mean, we had a whole podcast about
like the shape of space, right, and we're talking about
(14:26):
how space could be infinite, or it could be closed.
It could be that you could travel forever and come
back to where you started, etcetera. It's like close pockets
of space. Yeah, it could also be disconnected, right, you
could have two separate pockets of space that you just
can't travel from one to the other, like bubbles of space. Right.
And then if you have two, you could have three,
(14:46):
you could have four, you could have a jillion, right.
Why not? There, it's on sale, take as many as
your life. Uh. Okay, So let's get into the other
types of multiverses. But first let's take a quick break. Okay.
(15:10):
So we're in the chocolate chip flavor multiverse where we're
literally the universes are like chocolate chips, you know, like that,
you're like little chocolate chips sprinkled in in on in
the ice cream of infinity. Yeah, exactly, and each each
one could be infinite, right, and then you just you
can think of them as like layers in a pastry,
(15:30):
or you can think of those chocolate chips or something,
or you could think maybe Daniels should have eaten something
before he did this podcast, or because all of his
analogies seemed to be about food. Um, but yeah, that's
the general idea, okay, that that there could be other
universes with different constants of the laws of physics, which
would have, you know, a big impact, because if the
electron wait a different amount, everything would be different, if
(15:51):
neutrons that different, if the force of gravity or the
force of the strong force was different the place, everything
would look different. Oh, I see, because these all these numbers,
you know, these constants in the laws of physics, they
seem to be random. It's kind of what you're saying, right, Well,
they we don't have explanations for them. That's not the
same as their random, right. One explanation for not knowing
(16:12):
why the numbers are they are what they are is, oh,
they're random, but there is no explanation, and so we
can just sort of put the question aside. And I see,
it's possible that the electron weighs as much because of
some mathematical fundamental, you know, construction of the universe. Yeah, exactly.
Like say, for example, I lose two hundred bucks, and
(16:32):
the very same day you tell me, hey, look I
found two hundred bucks. Well that could be random, right,
or there could be a simpler explanation, like you owe
me two hundred bucks. Huh, yeah right. You don't sound persuaded,
you know, I'm saying this is all hypothetical, and yeah, exactly,
so you know I actually three hundred bucks. Okay, I'll
(16:53):
wait for the check. Um, I want to pay an
ice cream please. Um. The goal of physics, remember, is
to explain these things. It's not just to say, well,
that's kind of a mystery head scratch, maybe it's random, right,
is to say, what could explain it? Is there a
deeper theory of physics that doesn't have these arbitrary numbers
in it, right, that can explain why the electron is
(17:14):
the way it is that would be a better theory
of physics. Like just saying it's random. It's just not
satisfactory to a physicist. That's right. To me, it's not
satisfactory at all. It's like saying, stop asking questions. Okay.
So then you have to posit the idea that maybe
it's not random. And if it's not random, one possible
(17:34):
explanation is that they all exist. You have to positive
is random and then right, and that every possibility is
tried somewhere, and that this ours was just chosen randomly.
Oh I see, okay, all right, yeah, alright, alright, so
let's go past chocolate chip. Okay, what's another flavor of multiverse?
This is I would say this is like the rainbow
(17:56):
Sherbet flavor of the multiverse. Flavors of multiverse. You know
there's only four um. This one is the quantum mechanics multiverse.
This one says, you know what happens when a particle
has to make a random choice. Right, the Shortinger's cat
is either dead or alive, and it's random. Right, A
particle goes to the less split of the right slit.
It's random. It's very uncomfortable for there to be no
(18:19):
reason why it chooses one and not the other. So
this is a version of quantum mechanics called the multi
world's hypothesis, called the world's interpretation. Where both happened, the
universe splits, and both things happened. The particle goes into
the less slit and the right slit. Shortinger's cat is
dead in one universe and alive in the other one.
So every quantum interaction generates another universe where the other
(18:43):
random thing has happened. So every choice of every electron
and quantum particle in all of existence, every time it
makes a decision, generates a whole new universe. Yeah, it's
not a tiny theory, right, I mean we judge these
theories based on like how simple are they? How compact
link can you explain everything? And this theory generates a
(19:03):
whole entire universe for every particle interaction. Ever, right, that's
a lot of universes, So it's not a whole lot
of simplicity. Is the idea that they like these things
get generated or is it just that everything, every possibility
exists at the same time. Do you know what I mean? Like,
is it kind of like it actually pops into existence?
Is it into the past as well as the future. Yeah,
(19:26):
I think they are created in that moment. They only
start from when the choice happen because they split, right,
So the number of universes is growing and we all
just exist at the same time, like in the same
spot in the universe in reality, do you know what
I mean? Like are we on top of each other?
That's not a well defined question, right, We're not in
(19:47):
the same space because you know, our past is different
from the other universe is past, right in our in
our past the cat is dead or in their past
the cat is alive, and so we can't interact with
them at all. They would be like in a different space.
I mean there's it would be a universe be just
as valid. There would be ice cream and pretzels and
all sorts of stuff in that universe as well, although
(20:08):
it would just be slightly different and we can't travel
from one to the other. They're like causally disconnected, right
because they have a different past history, So you can't
get from one of the other. So where is that one?
That question requires you to like put both of them
in some space and then answer the question of how
to get from one to the other. But they're just different,
you know, they're like it's like asking how close is
(20:30):
the page in this book to that page and that
other book in China? You know, like there are different books,
you know, right. Yeah, So that's the quantum mechanical and
that was sort of mind blowing. And before people think
that's ridiculous, remember that there is no satisfactory answer to
the question and quantum mechanics of how that randomness has
chosen Why the electron turn left and right? Yes, exactly
(20:53):
why I left and not right? Yeah? And so that
randomness is frustrating, right, and you'd like to have an answer,
and the answer we have from quantum mechanics. The Cope
Hagan interpretation, the alternative to the multi worlds says that
it makes a choice. The universe throws a dice, right,
Like that's kind of crazy. Also, you know, like where
is this dice? Who's in charge of throwing it? How
does it work? You know? Is it really random? Why
(21:14):
not strange? I find it natural? Doesn't? You know? Like
the universe just made the decision and that's what it is.
You like to live in a very decisive universe. It
just like makes forward, you know. Um, Okay, so so
that's the quantum mechanics multi world version of a multiverse. Yeah, exactly.
(21:38):
And so you're saying there's a fourth type, right, so
we're getting crazier and crazier. Yeah, that was the rainbow
shirt butt. So now where it's like, I don't know,
this is the version of the multiverse where you like um,
empty the freezer and mix everything together in a blender
rainbow rainbow shirt, but pistachio, right, put in some liquorice
in there. This is the idea that every possible theory
(22:02):
of physics has its own universe, right. And to think
about this you have to think about the relationship between
physics and math. Right, So we use math to describe
what's happening in the physical universe, right, But sometimes you
can come up with a theory that doesn't reflect what's
actually happening. Right, And this happens all the time. Theorists
physicists come up with ideas like, oh, maybe the universe
(22:23):
works this way. I have a beautiful mathematical theory which
could describe a universe. But then they go when they
check it, and no, doesn't describe our universe. F equals
three m A yeah, and that would be a theory
of a universe, but it wouldn't describe what's happening around me. Yeah, exactly.
I mean not that specific example, but that's the general
idea construct a different set of physical laws that are
(22:46):
self consistent. Right. They have to be self consistent, non contradictory,
and have all the right mathematical properties. There are more
theories of physics than than just the one that describes
our universe. Right, So Max teg Mark, he thinks that
the universe is mathematical, right. That that because the universe
can be represented by a mathematical construct, which is, you know,
(23:07):
laws of physics. That means that it is those laws
of physics, which means that if there are other laws
of physics that you could put together, they also have
their own real universes out there, and somewhere out there
there is a universe following f equals three m A
or whatever. The other laws of physics are not just
the constant in our formulation of the laws of physics,
(23:29):
but just like a whole different equation. Yeah, I mean,
imagine far in the future we've answered all the questions
about the constants. We know why the electron has a mass.
It is why the Higgs is with gravity all this stuff,
we still have the laws themselves. We have to wonder,
like why these laws? Why does the universe follow these
laws and not these other very reasonable set of laws
that my math professor were there put together and could
(23:50):
work for his own universe, right, really, why these are
not some other? So like what are some things that
could change mathematically? Do you know what I mean? Like
F doesn't equal? Is that the only physics equation you know?
Or you keep going back to that one. I'm gonna
challenge you give me another physics equation. I mean, I
could say things like the lagrange and and potential energy,
but you know, I'm not sureing a lot of people
(24:11):
to understand that that's exactly right. Like there are i mean,
even the whole concept of how energy works, right, Like
we talked to another podcast about the theory of everything,
how everything we're discovering is just the consequence of the
universe at its lowest level. You know, is the universe
at its lowest level strings and they have some interaction
and everything follows from that. Or are the tiny quantum
(24:32):
loops or are they point particles in the way they
interact everything that that the that makes the universe university
comes from its basic structure, and so you could ask,
like it could its basic structure be different because those
rules of interaction be different, right, Um? And yeah, and
you can you can start from a totally different point
and say I'm gonna build a universe out of tiny puppies, right,
(24:53):
and they interact in this way, and then you can
get a universe. Right, Like, build a universe. What would
it look like? Maybe it wouldn't be very interesting. Maybe
would have this rich, complex structure that we have right, right,
but it's a valid universe. Do you have a universe
with nothing in it? A completely empty universe? Right? There?
You go, no nothing in it, no interactions. Boom, there's
a lot of there's a theory of physics that might
(25:14):
be out there, right, that's the idea. That's the idea
that if there's a consistent set of laws, then it exists. Right.
That would be like the you know, the all black chocolate,
that deep chocolate, nothing in it. Okay, So let me
see if I can break this down. There's four kinds
of multiverses. The first kind of multiverse is one where
it's just so big that you you can live in
(25:35):
different neighborhoods of it, and which might be different versions
of each other, just because space is infinite and you're
at some point going to repeat this universe, but maybe
slightly different within our own still sort of universe space exactly.
And those different neighborhoods are all different because they started
slightly differently in the very beginning, and that's the randomness
that that first Vanilli multiverse is exploring, Okay, very beginning
(25:59):
of how the particles were put together. Okay, version number two,
the chocolate chip is plays of the chocolate chip. Yeah,
the chocolate chip is that maybe there are other pockets
of in our universe where the constants of our the
loss of physics are different. And then there was a version,
the quantum mechanics version, where that says every time that
you open the box and the cat dies, that generates
(26:20):
a whole universe. And there's one where the loss of
physics itself, the math changes from university universe, that's right. Yeah,
And for comic book fans, we could have a level five,
which is Marvel universe versus DC universe versus independent upstart
comic universe. Yeah, but then you had infinite crisis on
infinite Earth that all collapse and then you have to
(26:41):
reboot fifty two a few years ago, and there's a
version of the universe where the DC movies are actually good.
But you know those are I like the DC movies? Now, yes,
they are good. I am pro DC. Oh man, you
are the you are the anti Daniel. That's what We're
gonna have a d C versus Marvel throat down. Um.
(27:06):
On that note, let's take a quick break. So those
are That's kind of the breakdown of all the different
kinds of multiverses. But at the course, the same idea
(27:27):
is that there are different versions of our universe out
there in existence. That's right. My big question is are
we ever going to know if these other universes exist? Like,
is it even possible to verify that they're there, that
they exist, and could we get there? Ever? The short
answer is probably not right, And the long answer is
(27:48):
it depends on the flavor of multiverse we're talking about.
The simplest one. We're talking about, you know, things that
are just sort of far away. Then yeah, you just
wait long enough and eventually light from there will reach
us and we will see that other version of you
that married that other person, and you know, I didn't
have kids and gets to spend their money on cool
bicycles and cars and all sorts of stuff. And you
(28:08):
can answer the question, what I've been happier, Well, if
you could zip through the universe, you would eventually find
another Earth. Yeah. If the universe really is infinite and
the initial conditions are random, then everything that's possible will
happen and you just have to go far enough away.
Max Techbar tried to calculate, like how far is it
away from us? Is that other you? You've got some
(28:30):
ridiculous numbers like ten to the ten to the one hundred,
So like, I mean, that's a number that's bigger than
I can even imagine. Remember it's ten to the eighties,
and there were particles in the universe, So ten to
the ten to the one hundred is like a good,
good jigabillion. But in principle, that person is out there.
It's out there, it's just separated by distance from us. Yeah,
(28:50):
so that's that's one possible multiversity you could actually test,
but it would take forever and so it's not really satisfying.
The other flavors are mostly different races, you know, like
the ones where the laws of physics are different or
quantum mechanics has made a different choice. Those universes we
can't ever visit, we can't interact with them. Almost by construction,
there's no way to interact with them. And so if
(29:12):
you can't interact with them, you can't like send a
probe or get data from them. You know, then there's
no way to ever prove that they exist. You know,
there's no way to ever say here, we can visit them,
or we can we can demonstrate conclusively that it's real
and not just an idea, like we can't ever touch it,
touch that that those other universes or get there. But
you're saying that you're telling me the other today that
(29:34):
we might be able to prove mathematically that they exist. Yeah,
there's a nice argument um by several people, including Sean Carroll,
that says that what if you had a theory of
physics which required the multiverse? Right, what if the only
theory of physics we could come up with here require
there to be other universes, and the hard work there
is figuring that out. Meaning in theory, you could know
(29:56):
that there is a multiverse and that other multiverses exist,
but you could still not be able to touch and
or visit them. Yeah, exactly. It's hard to come up
with a theory that absolutely requires the existence of the multiverse.
The unique solution to the theory is that the multiverse exists.
So in principle, I think Sean is right, it's possible,
but I think it's very difficult to construct that kind
(30:18):
of theory to prove the multiverse exists. So so it
kind of seems like it's kind of if we can't
ever go to these other universes or visit them. Um,
it's almost like it's pretty much just the U universe,
you know, Like that's right, the one we have is
pretty much it for us. It's pretty much the only
one we have, right for all practice rises, and I
(30:41):
think that's where we should focus. And the reason I'm
down on the multiverse is that I feel like a
little bit it's a it's giving up, you know, it's saying, Okay,
we don't know what the mass of the electron is,
but maybe there is no answer. Maybe the electron is
different here and somewhere else, and so let's just stop.
And I never want to stop asking, right, I always
want to say, maybe there's another theory explains it. Maybe
there's a way to unravel this mystery. So the multiverse
(31:04):
and the entropic principle, it's a way of sort of
shrugging and saying, and that's not very signed. Do you
want to keep taking that whole look for that one
sort of unifying theory. So far, we've been making progress
so far, we've figured things out. So far, when things
have seemed inexplicable, we'd rerealized why they had to be
(31:24):
that way, and it turned out there could have been
no other way because we understood something in a level
deeper which explained it. So I think the multiverse we're
gonna look back on a hundred years and laughed, you know,
and Wenna say, all those guys had no idea what
was going on. Everything they thought was random was determined
by laws of physics they just hadn't discovered yet. But
I think you're right. I think the lesson is to
(31:44):
really focus on the one universe we have. You know,
that's the only one I've got, So I'm going to
spend my time trying to figure it out. So make
your choices carefully. That's right, That's right because you only
have one go around so far until physics finds the multiples.
All right, thank you for joining us. I hope you
enjoyed that, or I hope there's a version of the
(32:06):
universe where you enjoyed that and I understood it as well.
See you next time. Thanks for listening. If you still
have a question after listening to all these explanations, please
drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you.
(32:26):
You can find us at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at
Daniel and Jorge That's one word, or email us at
Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com.
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Whiteson
Kelly Weinersmith
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