April 22, 2021 • 42 mins
Daniel and Jorge answer questions from listeners like you! Got questions? Come to Daniel's public office hours: https://sites.uci.edu/daniel/public-office-hours/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, it's Daniel and Jorge and we are excited
to make a very special announcement about a new project
we've been working on kind of in secret for the
last year or so. Is this related to your new wardrobe, Daniel, Nope,
my wardrobe is unfortunately frozen in time as physics professor casual.
But that's a great question and a great lead into
(00:20):
our new project, which is all about questions. Actually, that's right,
Daniel and I have written a new book. It's very exciting.
It's called Frequently Asked Questions about the Universe, another humble
title for our work, and it's inspired by all the
questions that you folks have been asking us, all the
questions you wonder about the nature of the universe and
how it works, and all the questions that science is
(00:42):
working on. So we took some of your most awesome
questions that you've sent to us, and we put them
in book form and actually answered them as best as
we can. There are questions like where does the universe
come from? And why can't we teleport? Or can we?
And have aliens visited us? And why is it exact
that we can't make it out there into the cosmos?
(01:02):
So the book is coming out this November two one,
but it's available right now for pre order, So go
to Universe f a q dot com and order your
copy today. So stop what you're doing right now, go
to universe f a q dot com and pre order
our new book. Frequently ask questions about the universe. It's
filled with science, silly jokes, and Jorge is awesome cartoons,
(01:26):
and maybe even a few answers, hopefully. I mean it's
in the it's in the title. The title just says questions.
Oh nice, Hey, Hory, did you know what? What? What's
going on, Danielle. We have to be quiet? Why what's happening?
(01:47):
It's noise pollution. If our podcast is being broadcast near
a radio telescope, we might be ruining their data. Oh no,
what if we're making a dumb banana joke right when
an alien message arrives? Yeah? Or what if the sciencests
think our jokes are so bad? We must be aliens.
Humor is so difficult to translate and we should just
(02:08):
be quiet. Hi. I'm or Hammack, cartoonists and the creator
of PhD comics. Hi I'm daniel I'm a particle physicist,
(02:31):
but I will definitely laugh at all the aliens bad
jokes when they come here. Really, what if it offends
them for you to laugh at their jokes? But you know,
it's quickly a totally different culture, Daniel. It's sort of
like smiling and nodding can be something totally different in
another culture. You are like doing the okay sign with
your fingers. There is an insult in some cultures. I'm
probably not the right person then to send to talk
(02:52):
to the aliens the first time, or to sit in
under comedy shows. But welcome to our podcast. Daniel and
Jorge explain the Universe production of I Heart Radio, in
which we make light and laugh at all of the
crazy mysteries of the universe, everything that we know about
the universe, the bonkers, crazy ideas that we have learned
about this beautiful, strange universe we find ourselves in, and
(03:15):
everything that we don't know about the universe, the very
edge of science, of things that scientists are thinking about,
the questions that they are pondering, and the questions that
you are thinking about every single day as you live
in this universe. Yeah, because it is a pretty big cosmos.
There's a lot out there to perplexes, and there's a
lot for us to ponder about how things work and
(03:37):
why things are the way they are, and so it's
natural for everyone to have questions about what's going on.
That's right. You are here to have the universe explained
to you because you are curious about the universe. You
want to understand it. You want to somehow take the
entire universe and fold it up into a little idea
that fits in your neurons. Amazing as it sounds, that
(03:57):
might actually be possible. But along the way sometimes two
ideas don't quite fit, or you wonder how does this
connect with that? Or this doesn't really make sense to me,
even though I've heard the words. And that's what we're
here for to explain all of it to you. Yeah,
because it all starts with questions, right, Daniel, Science would
you say starts with a question like what's going on there?
(04:18):
Or how can I get more things to eat? Or
what should I eat without dying? Yeah? Science is nothing
but questions. It's just people asking questions. I was giving
a talk to some students from Puerto Rico last weekend
and one of them asked me how do scientists figure
out what question to ask next. And I thought that
was an amazing question. And I told them that it's
(04:39):
just people asking questions about the universe. Scientists are just
people with questions that they want to know the answers too,
so badly that they decided to spend their lives trying
to figure it out. I see, you just turn it
around and ask them a question without giving an answer.
Is that what science is, Daniel? Just all questions, no answers.
It's mostly questions leading to other questions. But the questions
(05:01):
are personal. I want to know whether universe is made
out of Somebody else wants to know we can make
some special kind of super conducting goo, and somebody else
wants to figure out how life started. All of these
questions are being pursued by people who decided this is
the most important question, This is the thing I want
to know most about the universe. So science is about questions,
but those questions are also very personal. Yeah, and it's
(05:23):
not just scientists that have questions. Regular people have questions
to Yeah, or you could say regular people are also
scientists because they have questions. Right, we're all doing science,
we're all asking questions, we're all trying to understand this
crazy cosmos. That's where we're all in this together. And
so people have questions and sometimes they write to us
with their questions, hoping that we would maybe answer it
(05:44):
in an email or a tweet, or maybe in one
of our podcast episodes. Yeah, they do it all the time.
We get dozens of questions every single day. If you
have a question about something you heard about that you
don't quante understand or you'd like us to explain to you,
please don't be shy right to us. We love your
mails questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. Daniel, you
actually answer most or if not all, of the questions
(06:06):
you get. I answer every single question I get, usually
within just a few minutes. Sometimes I get surprised responses
from people saying, what, I can't believe you actually wrote
me back. But yeah, I'm just sitting here plugging away
my research and I love that ding when I get
a new email. Really, and I reacted well to my
new email things. You actually listen to those new email things.
That's pretty sure you had that turned off. I don't
(06:27):
know if that's a feature on my phone, and I'll
have to check, but I'm glad you're answering the questions
because I think I would just answer with more questions, like, hey,
maybe you should ask Daniel this question. I think maybe
they should, or I would point to Wikipedia that that's
helpful too. But yeah, we get a lot of questions,
and sometimes we do episodes where we answer these questions
live on the air, or at least live on the podcast. Yeah.
(06:48):
Sometimes people ask a question and I think I met
other people want to know the answer to this one,
so let's talk about it. Or I just think it'll
be fun, or it stumped me a little bit. I
have to go off and do some research and figure
it out, and then I'm excited to talk about it.
All right, So to the on the podcast, we'll be
talking about Listener Questions number fifteen. Wow, I can't believe
(07:16):
fifteen of these Listener Questions episodes. It's been a while. Yeah,
Listener Questions is a teenager now it's growing up. Oh
now isn't now? And it's rebellious face and refuses to
acknowledge this or to clean up the room, but we
secretly know it still wants to hear the answers. Oh,
I see, I see, It's just it's just a phase. Yeah, exactly,
it's just a thin verneer of attitude. Al right, Well,
(07:38):
today we have three great questions from three grade listeners
and fans out there. We have a question about peanut right,
black holes, and also radio bursts and quiet zones, which
would be great to implement here in my house sometimes.
All right, So our first question comes from Beckham from California,
who is sixty years old. Here is this question. Hi,
(08:00):
I am Backham and I'm six years old from California.
And if you squeeze the earth to the size of
a peanut and it turned into a black hole, how
far away would you have to be it to not
get sucked in? And so what didat the whole earth?
And thank you? All right? I love black hole questions
(08:21):
from six year olds. All right, do you get excited
about all questions about black holes or other questions about
black holes where you're like, oh, those are the best
questions about black holes. And somebody asked me something I
hadn't thought about before, and it makes me think about
black holes in a new way, or go open up
that General relativity book again or something that's the fun moment.
All right, Well, what do you think Beckham was thinking about, Yes,
(08:44):
if you squeeze the Earth into a peanut and it
became a black hole, how far away would you have
to be to not get sucked in? Wow? Yeah, I
think he's trying to make black holes sort of concrete.
Instead of thinking about black holes is something weird and
far away? You're thinking, you know, could we turn the
Earth into a black hole? And what would that be? Like?
(09:05):
M I see, because I guess you can make a
black hole out of anything, right, It's not like something
exotic out there in space. You can literally make a
black hole out of peanuts or by turning dirt into
a peanut. Yeah, it's just a bunch of mass and
energy compactified and the small enough space that the curvature
gets so intense that light can't escape it. That's really
all a black hole is. And you're right, you can
(09:26):
make it out of any kind of matter or energy.
You could even make it out of photons. We talked
about it once in the podcast that if you have
really big laser beams and you cross them in theory,
you can make a black hole where they intersect. Right,
Because it's not about how much mass or the size
of something or how heavy it is. It's really about
the density, Like if you have enough stuff in a
(09:47):
small enough space, it becomes a black hole. And that
could be something really small, or it could be you know,
the size of giant arm was like a super massive
black hole. Yeah, exactly. And we think that you can
make a black hole out of basically anything if you
make it den enough. There might be a minimum size
to a black hole. As things get down to like
the quantum level, it's not clear if you you can
make a black hole out of like an electron size
(10:09):
amount of mass, but you definitely can make a black
hole out of like an Earth size mass or a
Sun size mass. Now, most of the black holes we
see out there in the universe come from stars, and
so they're like ten to eighty times the mass of
the Sun, or they're at the center of galaxies and
then they're like thousands, millions, billions times the mass of
the Sun. So we don't see very many black holes
(10:30):
out there that are like the mass of the Earth.
In fact, we've never seen one at all. That doesn't
mean they're not out there. They could have been made
in the very early universe, these primordial black holes that
could be very very small up to very very large sizes, right,
because I guess black holes that size don't get naturally made, right, Like,
there's no natural common process for them to make an
(10:51):
earth size black hole, like most of the ways are are.
You know, stars going supernova is how they're made. Yeah,
gravity is a runaway process, and once it gets going,
then compactifies itself more, and then it gets more powerful,
and it compact defies itself more and gets more powerful.
The Earth, for example, is not going to collapse into
a black hole. It doesn't have enough stuff in it
to start that gravitational runaway process. So like the bonds
(11:13):
between the stuff in the Earth is more powerful than
the force of gravity. So you know, the structure of
the rock and all that stuff is holding itself, so
the Earth will not collapse into a black hole. All right.
So then if you took all of the mass of
the Earth and then you squeeze it all into the
size of a peanut, then you would get a black hole.
That's what Beckham is asking. Yeah, and you would take
(11:33):
some external force or you have to crush and compact
all that mass. But yes, in principle, you could get
a black hole just from the stuff of the Earth,
and you have to really squeeze it down. If you
wanted the Earth to be a black hole, you'd have
to take the mass of the Earth, all that stuff
and squeeze it down to something less than a centimeter wide. Wow,
so including all the peanuts on Earth, Like, can you
(11:55):
fit all the peanuts on Earth into a peanut? You can,
in fact, because the peanut is about the right size,
you know, it's about one centimeter. And maybe we should
have a new unit called the peanut. The p valley
for the peanut is one centimeter apparently, yeah, just about. So, Yeah,
you can fit all the peanuts on Earth, and all
the bananas on Earth, and all the rocks, and all
the gold and all the uranium and all the helium
(12:17):
and all that stuff down in a really compact space.
Remember that the space between things, the volume of things,
depends on the forces between them. Like the reason that
a rock has the size it has, it's not because
of the pile of stuff it's made out of, but
because the forces between those particles sort of pressing against
each other, fluffing it up. It's really like a pile
of little bubbles where those bubbles are made by the
(12:39):
electrostatic forces repelling each other. If you can overcome that,
then you can squeeze it down to whatever you like
and eventually get a black hole. Right, So that could
happen to the Earth if somebody came in and then
squeeze it all into black hole. But then I guess
Beckham's question is whether or not we would get automatically
sucked in, or like, are we doomed if the Earth
suddenly became a black hole? Or do we have a
(13:02):
chance of getting away? The question is how far away
would you have to be to not get sucked in? Well,
I consider myself to be part of the Earth and
so and I'm usually on the Earth. So if somebody
comes along and compactifies the Earth into a black hole,
then I'm inside the black hole already. But you know,
if you happen to be on a trip to the
space station when the Earth turns into a black hole,
(13:22):
then I guess you can ask the question like, can
you be around it safely nearby? I mean, let's make
this realistic, right right, Yeah, let's pretend that you're part
of this earth, Daniel. Let's dove into that fantasy. And
you hear it in the question this idea that black
holes sucks stuff in. And it's true the black holes
have strong gravity, but they're not like vacuum cleaners, you know,
(13:44):
they just pull on stuff the way everything else with
gravity pulls on stuff. The Earth pulls on you right now,
and that doesn't change just because it's turned into a
black hole. So for example, if you're standing on the
surface of the Earth, you feel it's gravity. If then
underneath you the whole Earth turns into a peanut sized
black hole, that doesn't change the force of gravity you
(14:04):
feel because it's the same amount of mass pulling on
you with the same gravity right like, nothing would change
basically except that you and maybe just lose the ground
under you. You would lose the ground under you. And
so now, if you want to avoid falling into the
black hole, I prefer the phrase falling in rather than
getting sucked in, because it tells us about the gravity
that's happening there. You need to go into orbit around
(14:25):
the black hole. The reason you don't fall to the
center of the Earth now is because the Earth is
holding you up. If that's not the case, then you
need some other way to avoid falling into the center
of this new black hole, and that would be to
go into orbit. Basically you need to be moving fast
enough that you keep missing the Earth as you fall.
That's what an orbit is. I see. So we would
feel the same gravitational force, which means we would fall
(14:48):
into the peanut sized black hole if the Earth suddenly
turned into a black hole. And so it's not a
matter of distance because I guess technically you would feel
the force from this black hole anywhere in the universe. Right.
Technically speaking, you do feel it anywhere in the universe
because gravity is infinite in extent. I mean, it falls
off like one over distance squared, so it drops off
pretty quickly. But yeah, in principle, we feel gravity from Andromeda.
(15:12):
That's why that neighboring galaxy is coming towards us and
we're shooting towards it. We feel gravity from things that
are infinitely far away, that's true, but the value of
that is pretty small, and so as you get closer
to something, it's gravity gets much much stronger because it
increases like one over our squared right, So like technically
we are getting pulled into all the black holes in
(15:32):
the universe right now, like every black hole in the universe,
for which they might be an infinite amount or trillions.
We're getting sucked into them as we speak, right, Yeah,
they are tugging on us, but they're being defeated by
the gravity of the Earth of course, and the Earth
being pretty massive and pretty close is overpowering it. I think,
for example, about the Sun. The Sun is so much
(15:53):
more massive than the Earth wise that you don't fall
into the Sun right now, because the Earth, even though
it's much much smaller mass, is much closer to you.
So it's winning the gravitational tug of war and keeping
you on the surface. Right, But technically we are me
and the Earth. We are still falling into the Sun.
It's just like, as you say, we're in orbit, we
have some kind of velocity in a different direction than
(16:15):
the direction of the Sun, and so that's why really
we're not falling into the Sun exactly. We have just
the right velocity and just the right direction to be
in a stable orbit around the Sun. So you can
avoid falling into something if you orbit around it. And
in fact, a lot of stuff orbits around black holes.
If you think about like the picture you have in
your mind of a black hole, it's this black sphere,
but it's surrounded by a disc of swirling stuff, and
(16:39):
you might wonder, well, why is that stuff there, Why
isn't it just immediately falling into the black hole? And
the answer is that it's spinning. It has rotational velocity,
and that helps it avoid falling in immediately. So you
can stay in orbit around the black hole for quite
a while until you lose that velocity by bouncing off
of other stuff, and then you fall into it. Right, So,
I guess technically if the Earth turned into a black hole,
(17:01):
you would get sucked in even as you're standing there now.
But also maybe if you're relatively far away, like at
the distance of the Moon or something, you would fall
in unless you can get into an orbit. Yeah, that's right.
If you were on the Moon, for example, you'd already
be in the Moon's orbit, and so you just stay
on the Moon and the Moon would keep orbiting around
the black hole. If you're on the surface of the Earth, however,
(17:21):
you're probably not moving fast enough to stay in orbit.
M I see. So the trick to avoiding falling into
the black peanut hole is to start running really fast, yeah, exactly,
Or get on a spaceship and how fast you have
to go to be in orbit depends on how far
away you are from the black hole. The closer you are,
the faster you have to be moving, and the further
(17:42):
away you are, the slower you can move and be
in a stable orbit. All right, So then I guess
the answer to the question is really that it's not
about being far away, it's about having some sort of
speed that lets you be in an orbit around the
black hole. Yeah, precisely. And if you were, for example,
at a hundred kilometers away from the black hole, which
is pretty close, you'd have to go like sixty meters
(18:03):
per second to avoid falling in. And if you were
at one kilometer it'll be ten times that speed. And
if you were just like one meter away from this
peanut sized black hole, you'd have to go like twenty
million meters per second. Wow, which is a your You'd
be toast right, because you can go around that fast
around something that's small, can you? Certainly you could. You
(18:26):
could be a meter away, you could be whipping around
really really fast. It'd be hard to accelerate to that
speed without like crushing your internal organs. But you know,
even that speed, though it sounds fast, is a pretty
small fraction of the speed of light, So in principle
you could actually go that fast. Right, What about here
in the surface of the Earth, how fast would you
need to be going? Like, if I'm in the highway
(18:46):
going at you know, seventy miles per hour? Am I
safe if the Earth suddenly turned into a black hole? Yeah?
So if you're at the surface of the Earth, which
is six million meters from the center of the Earth,
then you need a velocity of about seventy nine hundred
meters per second to avoid falling into the surface of
the Earth. All right, that sounds not in the millions.
How does that translate into miles per hour? That's like
(19:09):
seventeen thousand miles per hour, So it's definitely faster than
you're moving right now. If you're just standing still on
the surface of the Earth, then you know the Earth
goes around one time per day obviously, then you're moving
to like four hundred and sixty meters per second, so
you're moving a lot slower than you would have to
be if you wanted to avoid falling into a black
hole at the center of the Earth. Okay, so then
(19:31):
the answer then would be it would all fall in
as you like to say, unless you just happened to
be breaking some sort of crazy speed record on land. Yeah,
or you had access to some really powerful rocket or
spaceship or something. Oh, I see, you could activate it
as soon as you hear news and the Earth turned
into a black hole, you could activate your your jet
pack and then fly away. If I had a jet
(19:53):
pack and I saw the Earth sort of crumbling beneath
me into a black hole, then yeah, I would turn
that thing on. And that's why you have it. See,
I would have given it to my kids first, But
you know that's that's just me. I'm just kidding. First,
put the mask on yourself. Then help the child not
know what they say. Alright, Well back, Unfortunately, I don't
think you have to worry about that, right. I don't
(20:14):
think the Earth is in danger of turning into a
black hole anytime soon, unless Beckham has some evil plans
to grow up and compactify the Earth into a black hole,
and we've just aided them. Why why did why they
need to grow up? They could be a child genius,
evil genius. Well here's the opening. You're not Beckham, but
thanks for asking the question. All right, Well, let's get
(20:34):
into our two other questions for today, one about entropedean
time and the other one about radio births. But first
let's take a quick break. Alright. We're answering listener questions
(20:56):
today on the podcast, and our next question comes from
who is from Germany. Here's day's question. What I would
like to know is in one of your podcasts, Daniel
explained that when space is generated, each concrement of space
is containing its own newly generated increment of energy. And
(21:19):
I understand that energy when it's existing, that it can
be converted. Now normally, when energy is converted, as to
my understanding, there's also entropy generated. I wonder what happens
with this entropy. Far as I know, entropy and time
are the only two physical components which move forward in time,
(21:40):
or rather are generated and only in one direction. So
are there any connections between entropy and time? And if
there's a connection between entropy and time, would time freeze
when there's no more entropy to be generated in our universe? Alright,
thank you Dave from Germany. It's like kind of a
(22:01):
complicated question here. I think he's asking whether you know
I think we've talked about how energy is generated when
new space is created in the universe, and so there's
maybe some entropy associated with that energy, and so what's
going to happen, you know, at the end of time,
when maybe the universe is not expanding or we run
out of entropy. What do you think he's asking. I
(22:22):
think he's got a lot of fun questions, and I
think he had more questions sort of generated in his
mind as he was asking his initial question, And I
think that makes sense because a lot of these things
are connected. I think the heart of the question is
probably about how the expansion of space is connected to
the end of the universe, you know, like, is the
expansion of space dooming us to a certain eventual fate
(22:44):
of the universe. And I guess specifically he was asking, like,
when the universe expands, is entropy increasing as well. Yeah,
that's a really cool question because you know, we've talked
about how the expansion of space breaks something else which
we always was fundamental and ironclad rule of the universe
that energy is conserved. And you know, energy is conserved,
(23:07):
but only when space is static. Remember that a lot
of these conservation laws come from symmetries that come from
assumptions that we can make about the universe, and one
of them is that space is static and so energy
is only conserved when that holds, and if the universe
is expanding, that doesn't hold anymore. So it makes sense
to also ask, like what else gets broken when space expands,
(23:28):
when the universe is creating more space. So is entropy
being created with new space in the universe? I wouldn't
say created, right, Entropy is not something that like you create.
It's not a physical thing. It's like a calculation that
we can do to evaluate a situation. Say what is
the entropy of this? You know, you can like run
(23:48):
the numbers and say what's the entropy of this situation
versus that situation. I don't think of entropy is like
a physical thing that's actually made. But you can ask
the question when space expands, when new space is being created,
does entropy go up or down? I see, is it
being created or not? Just kidding? I guess is entropy
increasing one space increases as well? That's the question. Yeah,
(24:12):
And it makes absolute sense, and I think the answer
has to be yes, and not just because of the
second law of thermodynamics that says that you know, entropy
always goes up. But because of the nature of entropy, right,
entropyes are really slippery concept, and I think a lot
of people think of entropy is like the amount of
disorder or disorganization, sort of in the university amount. Stuff
(24:32):
is sort of mixed up. It's a messy topic, and
that's a helpful way to think about it, sort of approximately.
But what entropy actually is is sort of a measurement
of our ignorance about what's going on at the smallest level.
To calculate entropy, you have to make like a statement
about something macroscopically, like it's temperature or it's a volume
(24:53):
or something you know macroscopically that we can see and measure,
and then compare that to what we know about it microscopically.
So entropy is related to the number of different ways
you can make microscopic arrangements that are consistent with your
macroscopic statements about things like temperature. So it's like a
measure of like how much we don't know about the
microscopic states. Right. It's it's almost like, you know, the
(25:14):
messier things are, the more different ways that the messiness
can be. But if you want something really neat and ordered,
you you only have so many options. Yeah, it's like
if you have a bunch of coins and I tell
you all the coins are heads, well, then I've told
you exactly how every coin has to be. They all
have to be heads. There's only one way for that
to happen. Right, that's low entropy. Right, Yeah, that's low
(25:35):
entropy exactly. But if then I tell you, well, half
the coins are heads, then now you have a lot
of different ways to arrange all those coins. As long
as half of them are heads, you're free to decide
for this coin and for that coin whether it's heads
or tails. So there's a lot of ways to arrange
the coins to satisfy my sort of macroscopic statement that
half of them are heads. And so that means it's
(25:57):
high entropy because there's a lot of configurations. And the
second law of thermodynamics is nothing more than that. It's
just saying things that have high entropy are more likely
to happen because there are more ways for it to happen.
And usually that happens with time, right, And usually that
happens with time, Like the more time passes, the more
the things that are likely or likely to happen. Yeah, exactly.
(26:18):
It's a foundational idea and quantum mechanics that every possible
state microscopically is equivalently likely. But if more of those
states represent the same thing macroscopically, like they're close to
a fifty fifty split heads and tails, then they're more
likely to happen because they're just more of those possible outcomes.
It's like if you roll a huge handful of dying,
you add up all the numbers, you're much more likely
(26:40):
to get something near the middle of the possible outcomes
than the very maximum value or the very minimum value,
just because there's more ways to get that outcome, and
there's only one way to get the maximum and one
way to get the minimum. So it's really just a
statement of probability. So then does that mean that as
you get more space in the universe, there's kind of
more ways for things to be arranged, and therefore entropy
(27:03):
it just naturally increases. Yep, that's exactly what happens. The
more ways you have for things to be arranged under
the hood, the more entropy you have, and the more
space means more micro states. More micro states means more entropy.
I see, all right, So then is that what is
causing enterpying the universe to increase or is it just
(27:24):
helping entropy increase in the universe, entropy would be increasing
even without dark energy space was not expanding, then entropy
would be increasing anyway. And just because that's where the
second lofterm dynamic says that if you start from a
low entropy configuration, unlikely arrangement if your micro states, you're
going to end up in a more likely arrangement as
time goes on. So even if space was not increasing,
(27:47):
that there was no expansion, entropy would still be gradually
going up. But as you say, it's helped by the
fact that space is expanding and so there's more stuff
to get mixed up, and so entropy is increasing that
way as well. I see, so entropies like accelerating in
the universe because of dark energy, which is the expansion
(28:07):
of the universe. M m M. And he asked another
sort of fun question there because he was talking about
energy conversion. You know, every time you turn one kind
of energy into another kind of energy, it's never perfectly efficient.
A little bit leaks out as heat, and that also
is an increase in entropy. But it's really the same thing,
because heat spreading out is really just like more micro
(28:28):
states sharing in the wealth of the energy, and it's
spreading out. It's more likely for energy to be spread
out than for it to be compact. But he's talking
about how when you convert one kind of energy into another,
entropy goes up, and he's wondering about, like the actual
process of creation of space itself, does that like leak
heat out into the universe. What I guess, if you're
(28:49):
creating space, you're creating energy, and if you're creating energy,
you're heating things up. Yeah, it's a really fun question.
I've never really thought about that before. The problem is
that we don't have any idea for what that process is. Like,
we know that the expansion of the universe is accelerating
and that means space is being stretched and created, but
we don't really know what the mechanism is for that
(29:10):
to happen. We don't have an explanation for that. Some
people think it might come from negative pressure from quantum
zero point energy and all the fields that are in space,
But if you do the calculation, that doesn't actually work.
It doesn't explain what we see. So we observe that
space is being created, but we don't know what's doing it,
so we have no concept for this mechanism. We don't
(29:31):
know if it actually involves an energy conversion from some
other source of external energy we haven't been aware of,
or if it's actual creation of energy itself. I see.
So we're too clueless to really answer that question, sorry, Dave. Well,
if there's entropy being generated by dark energy, can I
call it dark entropy? You can call it whatever you like.
(29:53):
I think I'm gonna reserve that for my new sci
fi novel, Dark Enterpy. That is a cool title, actually
mysterious and chaotic. There you go, all right, And then
there was a sort of an appendent question at the
end here about whether you know at the end of
time or at the universe keeps expanding and expanding and
entropy keeps increasing, does that mean that time is going
(30:16):
to end or freeze? Yeah? Everybody wants to know the
answer to that question, Dave, and unfortunately nobody does. Right.
We just don't know what the future of dark energy is.
Will it continue to pull stuff apart and write everything
out and increase the entropy of the universe till an
eventual heat death. We just don't know, because again we
don't know what the mechanism is, and we don't know
(30:36):
if it will continue. Remember that dark energy has not
been persistent in our universe. While we think the cosmological
constant might be constant because it's called the cosmological constant.
Dark energy itself only took over around five billion years
ago to create this accelerated expansion, So we don't know
why it turned on around. Then we don't know if
(30:57):
it's going to keep going, if it's gonna stop, if
it's going to turn around and shrink the universe back
down to some other crazy dense state. So we just
really don't know. We can't predict because we don't understand
this mechanism at all. All right, So then I guess
the question is stay tuned and or we have no idea. Sorry, Dave,
we have no idea, stay tuned. We may still have
(31:17):
no idea in a billion years. This is going to
be messy either way. All right, Well, thank you Dave.
That answers that question, And so let's get into our
last question of the episode from Robin, and it's about
radio birth. But first let's take another quick break. All right,
(31:46):
we're answering listener questions today on the podcast, and our
last question comes from Robin from Oregon and she has
a question about the National Radio Quiet Zone. Hello, Daniel
and Jorge. Hey, this is Robin Mark in Cobrag, Oregon. Um.
I just got done listening to your show about fast
(32:07):
radio bursts and it got me thinking about the National
Radio Quiet Zone in Green Bank, West Virginia, where basically
nothing electronic is allowed. No microwaves, no cell phones, no WiFi.
I thought it would make a great episode on your podcast.
What do you think? All right? Thank you, Robbing. That
(32:28):
sounds like a great place to visit for a vacation.
No cellphones, no electronics. I mean, you probably go a
little crazy the first couple of days, but maybe you
we reach some sort of zen state afterwards. Yeah. It's
an amazing sort of spot in the country where they've
really tried to keep things quiet so that astronomers can
listen to the skies and not be crowded out by
(32:50):
all the crazy radio signals that humans to generate. So
this is an actual place in the United States, in
West Virginia. This is an actual place in West Virginia.
The most powerful radio telescope in our hemisphere, and the
largest steerable radio telescope is now the Green Bank Observatory
in West Virginia exactly. And you know, this thing is
(33:11):
listening to the sky, and it's listening to the sky
not in terms of sound, of course, but in terms
of a special frequency of light we call radio waves.
And if you want to listen to the sky, you
have to make sure you're not drowned out by basically
light pollution from other sources of radio emissions. And I
guess all of our cell phones, most of our electronics,
(33:32):
they use these radio frequencies. They do, they use these
radio frequencies, were constantly beaming radio waves around the world
right for radio right If you're listening to us on
the radio right now, then we have been transmitted to
you using this kind of electromagnetic radiation whose frequency puts
it in the radio band. And not just our cell
(33:54):
phones and not just our radio towers, but a lot
of our electronics accidentally sort of incidentally generated radio noise. Well,
this is interesting. How big is this national radio quiet
and it's like a federal thing, or how do people
all agree in the large of a space to not
use their cell phones. It is a federal thing was
(34:14):
created in ninety eight. It's this big rectangle of land.
It's about a hundred miles on a side, and so
it's really pretty spacious. And it surrounds this Green Bank
Observatory in West Virginia. Cool and you said it was
creating a nine. We have radios. I guess we had
radios and TV, but no cell phones back then, no
cell phones. But these days also they try to restrict
(34:35):
WiFi usage that also operates in the similar frequencies. All right,
forget it. I mean I can go in a vacation
with no cell phones but WiFi. Yeah. So they try
to be as quiet as possible, and they actually drive
around with this truck listening for radio signals, trying to
catch people like emitting in their radio. And yeah, they do.
(34:57):
They drive this patrol truck around listening for emitters because
some people just aren't aware. Like if you have an
old microwave oven that's poorly shielded, you can generate a
lot of radio noise. I see. But then if they
find somebody, how do they radio it in to come
take them away? They can't, they can't. They just politely
knock on the door and ask those folks to stop
using it. It's not heavily and forced, like you can
(35:18):
get a fifty dollar fine for emitting radio in the
quiet zone. But they mostly just try to work with
people and help them understand the importance of radio astronomy
and what they're trying to do. That would be an
expensive phone call if it cost you, And this is
the real concerned. This is hilarious story from Australia where
they also have a big radio telescope where they saw
these weird signals and you know, they're listening for messages
(35:41):
from outer space and they saw this bizarre signal they
couldn't understand until they finally tracked it down after more
than a decade to be the microwave in the break
room where the grad students hang out. What they couldn't
figure out why this signal always lasted the same amount
as as a popcorn sitting on the micro Yeah, basically
grad students eating frozen burritos created a false signal of extraterrestrials.
(36:06):
I guess these telescopes are pretty sensitive, right, Like you're
trying to detect really weak signals from space exactly, we
are trying to listen to really quiet signals. Remember that
the power of signal falls very quickly with the distance.
You know, if you shout from the top of a mountain,
then people can hear you if they're close by, but
as they get further and further away, it's harder and
harder to hear that shout. It falls with the distance squared.
(36:29):
And so the message, for example, from an alien civilization
could come with a very small amount of energy by
the time it gets here. I see it's like I
think you were telling me once. It's like the energy
of a falling snowflake. Yes, it's a very very gentle
ripple in the electromagnetic fields. And that's why this dish
is huge. This thing is as tall as the Washington Monument.
(36:51):
It's got two acres of area on the dish. What. Yeah, Also,
it's kind of beautiful. You should check out a Google
image of this thing. It's bigger than like the receive
it's not bigger, unfortunately, but it is steerable right air
cebo sort of built into the ground. This thing is
above ground, but they can turn it so they can
point it in various directions and that helps them understand
like the location or the source of a signal. I
(37:14):
guess one question is why aren't there more of these
radio quiet zones, Like you know, I've been to Hawaii
and the telescopes and note they'll find me for using
my cell phone up there. Well, they don't have radio
telescopes in Hawaii. Most of those are optical telescopes. So
this is a special kind of telescope that's listening for radio,
and so it's mostly sensitive to radio noise, and radio
(37:35):
telescopes aren't as common as optical telescopes. It's a sort
of special branch of astronomy, I see, and it's a
really exciting one. I mean, there's lots of really interesting
things you can learn about the universe just by listening
to the sky in the radio. You know. This is
how we discovered, for example, that the center of our
galaxy had a black hole, because people heard this weird
signal from the center of the galaxy and they thought,
(37:57):
what's that? What could be they're making this weird holts? Wow,
And then we pointed one of these telescopes to the
center of the galaxy. Yeah, that's how we figured it out.
Radio astronomy. The whole field was sort of invented accidentally.
There was an engineer at Bell Labs who was asked
to figure out, like, could we beam signals using radio
waves across the Atlantic? How much interference is there? So
(38:18):
he just built a huge radio antenna to sort of
listen for the amount of noise. He was more worried
about thunderstorms, but then he heard this weird signal than
he discovered. Hold on a second, this isn't even coming
from Earth, It's coming from somewhere else. And that's when
radio astronomy was born. We realized that the stars were
sending us information in another frequency and nobody had been listening. Interesting,
(38:39):
I guess that the universe is sending us signals and
all frequencies. Really, that's why we listened to the radio,
and the X ray and the optical. We look at
gamma rays, we look at every sort of kind of
frequency because different parts of the universe glow at different
frequencies of light. Right, the horder you are, the higher
your temperature, and the more energetic, the higher the frequency
(38:59):
you mid of your radiation. So radio waves come from
sort of cooler, quieter stuff, but it's also very powerful.
It's very good at seeing dark stuff. That you can't
otherwise see, like huge clouds of gas and dust that
aren't glowing in the visible light. Right. And and sometimes
when you see those photos of like giant space nebula
or giant clusters of stuff out there in space, and
(39:20):
you see has all these colors. That's really what it is, right,
Like they sort of manipulate the signals from all these
different frequencies and they assigned colors to them. Yeah, a
lot of times they do a color map. Right. They
take things which are invisible to your eyes. Right, you
can't see radio waves even when they hit your eyeballs,
you can't see them. And then they shift their frequency
so that you can see it. They map it into
the visible spectrum. All right. So then this National Radio Quiet,
(39:44):
So can anyone go visit? Is it open to the
public or do you have to like sign in or
get permission. There's a huge area of land, so it
includes like cities. People live there, Like people's homes are
in this area. It's not a closed off region. People
live there, but there's no radio signals rights, no radio station.
You can't use cell phones, you're not supposed to have WiFi.
There's like wold towns with no cell phone or WiFi signals. Yeah,
(40:07):
there's like a whole mountain resort there that has like
you know, land lines and phone booths and all sorts
of quaint stuff. Wait, what's a phone booth. It's this
thing I see on Doctor Who. I don't really know
what it's. And some people really like to live there,
Like some folks feel hyper sensitive to electromagnetic radiation, you know,
they don't like to live near sources of it. And
(40:28):
so if you're that kind of person, then this is
made for you. Or if you're a radio astronomer. Wow,
I wonder if people are happier there, you know what
I mean. Like, I feel like maybe my life was
a little happier before this sort of constant source of
noise in my pocket, all those email things that you
don't pay attention to, all these things that you know,
I have to ignore. I don't know. And it's a
great place to do radio astronomy, but it might also
(40:50):
be a good place to do with psychology study of
the effects of modern communication. I'm sure somebody's looked into that. Interesting. Unfortunately,
most of the people who live there are physicists, so
you know that the happiness question down. It definitely excused
the sample for sure, that it wouldn't be a scientific study.
All right, well, thank you Robin for that question. It
was a fun topic to explore. I had had no
(41:11):
idea about this National Radio Quiet Zone in West Virginia,
that's right. So if you are driving through it, please
don't blast your stereo or turn on your WiFi or
open up your phone, because those astronomers want to hear
the message from the aliens when it comes and not
your silly emails. Yeah. All right, well those are our
three questions for today. And once again, it's amazing, first
(41:31):
of all that people are listening to this podcast. Thank
you so much for being there for us. And it's
amazing the range of questions we get from people from
all over the world. That's right. And remember that science
is just people asking their personal questions about the universe.
So keep asking your questions. Think to yourself, if I
could get the answer to one question about the universe,
(41:52):
what would be my one question. And if you know
what that question is and you don't know the answer,
hey right to us. Maybe we can help you figure
it out. We'll ask questions right back at you and
avoid answering it like we did some questions today and
then we'll run away to the radio free zone and
avoid your email. It sounds like a good deal, all right. Well,
thank you for joining us. I hope you enjoyed that.
(42:15):
See you next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that
Daniel and Jorge explained. The Universe is a production of
I Heart Radio or more podcast For my heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
(42:35):
you listen to your favorite shows. Ye
Hey, everyone, it's Daniel and Jorge and we are excited
to make a very special announcement about a new project
we've been working on kind of in secret for the
last year or so. Is this related to your new wardrobe, Daniel, Nope,
my wardrobe is unfortunately frozen in time as physics professor casual.
But that's a great question and a great lead into
(00:20):
our new project, which is all about questions. Actually, that's right,
Daniel and I have written a new book. It's very exciting.
It's called Frequently Asked Questions about the Universe, another humble
title for our work, and it's inspired by all the
questions that you folks have been asking us, all the
questions you wonder about the nature of the universe and
how it works, and all the questions that science is
(00:42):
working on. So we took some of your most awesome
questions that you've sent to us, and we put them
in book form and actually answered them as best as
we can. There are questions like where does the universe
come from? And why can't we teleport? Or can we?
And have aliens visited us? And why is it exact
that we can't make it out there into the cosmos?
(01:02):
So the book is coming out this November two one,
but it's available right now for pre order, So go
to Universe f a q dot com and order your
copy today. So stop what you're doing right now, go
to universe f a q dot com and pre order
our new book. Frequently ask questions about the universe. It's
filled with science, silly jokes, and Jorge is awesome cartoons,
(01:26):
and maybe even a few answers, hopefully. I mean it's
in the it's in the title. The title just says questions.
Oh nice, Hey, Hory, did you know what? What? What's
going on, Danielle. We have to be quiet? Why what's happening?
(01:47):
It's noise pollution. If our podcast is being broadcast near
a radio telescope, we might be ruining their data. Oh no,
what if we're making a dumb banana joke right when
an alien message arrives? Yeah? Or what if the sciencests
think our jokes are so bad? We must be aliens.
Humor is so difficult to translate and we should just
(02:08):
be quiet. Hi. I'm or Hammack, cartoonists and the creator
of PhD comics. Hi I'm daniel I'm a particle physicist,
(02:31):
but I will definitely laugh at all the aliens bad
jokes when they come here. Really, what if it offends
them for you to laugh at their jokes? But you know,
it's quickly a totally different culture, Daniel. It's sort of
like smiling and nodding can be something totally different in
another culture. You are like doing the okay sign with
your fingers. There is an insult in some cultures. I'm
probably not the right person then to send to talk
(02:52):
to the aliens the first time, or to sit in
under comedy shows. But welcome to our podcast. Daniel and
Jorge explain the Universe production of I Heart Radio, in
which we make light and laugh at all of the
crazy mysteries of the universe, everything that we know about
the universe, the bonkers, crazy ideas that we have learned
about this beautiful, strange universe we find ourselves in, and
(03:15):
everything that we don't know about the universe, the very
edge of science, of things that scientists are thinking about,
the questions that they are pondering, and the questions that
you are thinking about every single day as you live
in this universe. Yeah, because it is a pretty big cosmos.
There's a lot out there to perplexes, and there's a
lot for us to ponder about how things work and
(03:37):
why things are the way they are, and so it's
natural for everyone to have questions about what's going on.
That's right. You are here to have the universe explained
to you because you are curious about the universe. You
want to understand it. You want to somehow take the
entire universe and fold it up into a little idea
that fits in your neurons. Amazing as it sounds, that
(03:57):
might actually be possible. But along the way sometimes two
ideas don't quite fit, or you wonder how does this
connect with that? Or this doesn't really make sense to me,
even though I've heard the words. And that's what we're
here for to explain all of it to you. Yeah,
because it all starts with questions, right, Daniel, Science would
you say starts with a question like what's going on there?
(04:18):
Or how can I get more things to eat? Or
what should I eat without dying? Yeah? Science is nothing
but questions. It's just people asking questions. I was giving
a talk to some students from Puerto Rico last weekend
and one of them asked me how do scientists figure
out what question to ask next. And I thought that
was an amazing question. And I told them that it's
(04:39):
just people asking questions about the universe. Scientists are just
people with questions that they want to know the answers too,
so badly that they decided to spend their lives trying
to figure it out. I see, you just turn it
around and ask them a question without giving an answer.
Is that what science is, Daniel? Just all questions, no answers.
It's mostly questions leading to other questions. But the questions
(05:01):
are personal. I want to know whether universe is made
out of Somebody else wants to know we can make
some special kind of super conducting goo, and somebody else
wants to figure out how life started. All of these
questions are being pursued by people who decided this is
the most important question, This is the thing I want
to know most about the universe. So science is about questions,
but those questions are also very personal. Yeah, and it's
(05:23):
not just scientists that have questions. Regular people have questions
to Yeah, or you could say regular people are also
scientists because they have questions. Right, we're all doing science,
we're all asking questions, we're all trying to understand this
crazy cosmos. That's where we're all in this together. And
so people have questions and sometimes they write to us
with their questions, hoping that we would maybe answer it
(05:44):
in an email or a tweet, or maybe in one
of our podcast episodes. Yeah, they do it all the time.
We get dozens of questions every single day. If you
have a question about something you heard about that you
don't quante understand or you'd like us to explain to you,
please don't be shy right to us. We love your
mails questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. Daniel, you
actually answer most or if not all, of the questions
(06:06):
you get. I answer every single question I get, usually
within just a few minutes. Sometimes I get surprised responses
from people saying, what, I can't believe you actually wrote
me back. But yeah, I'm just sitting here plugging away
my research and I love that ding when I get
a new email. Really, and I reacted well to my
new email things. You actually listen to those new email things.
That's pretty sure you had that turned off. I don't
(06:27):
know if that's a feature on my phone, and I'll
have to check, but I'm glad you're answering the questions
because I think I would just answer with more questions, like, hey,
maybe you should ask Daniel this question. I think maybe
they should, or I would point to Wikipedia that that's
helpful too. But yeah, we get a lot of questions,
and sometimes we do episodes where we answer these questions
live on the air, or at least live on the podcast. Yeah.
(06:48):
Sometimes people ask a question and I think I met
other people want to know the answer to this one,
so let's talk about it. Or I just think it'll
be fun, or it stumped me a little bit. I
have to go off and do some research and figure
it out, and then I'm excited to talk about it.
All right, So to the on the podcast, we'll be
talking about Listener Questions number fifteen. Wow, I can't believe
(07:16):
fifteen of these Listener Questions episodes. It's been a while. Yeah,
Listener Questions is a teenager now it's growing up. Oh
now isn't now? And it's rebellious face and refuses to
acknowledge this or to clean up the room, but we
secretly know it still wants to hear the answers. Oh,
I see, I see, It's just it's just a phase. Yeah, exactly,
it's just a thin verneer of attitude. Al right, Well,
(07:38):
today we have three great questions from three grade listeners
and fans out there. We have a question about peanut right,
black holes, and also radio bursts and quiet zones, which
would be great to implement here in my house sometimes.
All right, So our first question comes from Beckham from California,
who is sixty years old. Here is this question. Hi,
(08:00):
I am Backham and I'm six years old from California.
And if you squeeze the earth to the size of
a peanut and it turned into a black hole, how
far away would you have to be it to not
get sucked in? And so what didat the whole earth?
And thank you? All right? I love black hole questions
(08:21):
from six year olds. All right, do you get excited
about all questions about black holes or other questions about
black holes where you're like, oh, those are the best
questions about black holes. And somebody asked me something I
hadn't thought about before, and it makes me think about
black holes in a new way, or go open up
that General relativity book again or something that's the fun moment.
All right, Well, what do you think Beckham was thinking about, Yes,
(08:44):
if you squeeze the Earth into a peanut and it
became a black hole, how far away would you have
to be to not get sucked in? Wow? Yeah, I
think he's trying to make black holes sort of concrete.
Instead of thinking about black holes is something weird and
far away? You're thinking, you know, could we turn the
Earth into a black hole? And what would that be? Like?
(09:05):
M I see, because I guess you can make a
black hole out of anything, right, It's not like something
exotic out there in space. You can literally make a
black hole out of peanuts or by turning dirt into
a peanut. Yeah, it's just a bunch of mass and
energy compactified and the small enough space that the curvature
gets so intense that light can't escape it. That's really
all a black hole is. And you're right, you can
(09:26):
make it out of any kind of matter or energy.
You could even make it out of photons. We talked
about it once in the podcast that if you have
really big laser beams and you cross them in theory,
you can make a black hole where they intersect. Right,
Because it's not about how much mass or the size
of something or how heavy it is. It's really about
the density, Like if you have enough stuff in a
(09:47):
small enough space, it becomes a black hole. And that
could be something really small, or it could be you know,
the size of giant arm was like a super massive
black hole. Yeah, exactly. And we think that you can
make a black hole out of basically anything if you
make it den enough. There might be a minimum size
to a black hole. As things get down to like
the quantum level, it's not clear if you you can
make a black hole out of like an electron size
(10:09):
amount of mass, but you definitely can make a black
hole out of like an Earth size mass or a
Sun size mass. Now, most of the black holes we
see out there in the universe come from stars, and
so they're like ten to eighty times the mass of
the Sun, or they're at the center of galaxies and
then they're like thousands, millions, billions times the mass of
the Sun. So we don't see very many black holes
(10:30):
out there that are like the mass of the Earth.
In fact, we've never seen one at all. That doesn't
mean they're not out there. They could have been made
in the very early universe, these primordial black holes that
could be very very small up to very very large sizes, right,
because I guess black holes that size don't get naturally made, right, Like,
there's no natural common process for them to make an
(10:51):
earth size black hole, like most of the ways are are.
You know, stars going supernova is how they're made. Yeah,
gravity is a runaway process, and once it gets going,
then compactifies itself more, and then it gets more powerful,
and it compact defies itself more and gets more powerful.
The Earth, for example, is not going to collapse into
a black hole. It doesn't have enough stuff in it
to start that gravitational runaway process. So like the bonds
(11:13):
between the stuff in the Earth is more powerful than
the force of gravity. So you know, the structure of
the rock and all that stuff is holding itself, so
the Earth will not collapse into a black hole. All right.
So then if you took all of the mass of
the Earth and then you squeeze it all into the
size of a peanut, then you would get a black hole.
That's what Beckham is asking. Yeah, and you would take
(11:33):
some external force or you have to crush and compact
all that mass. But yes, in principle, you could get
a black hole just from the stuff of the Earth,
and you have to really squeeze it down. If you
wanted the Earth to be a black hole, you'd have
to take the mass of the Earth, all that stuff
and squeeze it down to something less than a centimeter wide. Wow,
so including all the peanuts on Earth, Like, can you
(11:55):
fit all the peanuts on Earth into a peanut? You can,
in fact, because the peanut is about the right size,
you know, it's about one centimeter. And maybe we should
have a new unit called the peanut. The p valley
for the peanut is one centimeter apparently, yeah, just about. So, Yeah,
you can fit all the peanuts on Earth, and all
the bananas on Earth, and all the rocks, and all
the gold and all the uranium and all the helium
(12:17):
and all that stuff down in a really compact space.
Remember that the space between things, the volume of things,
depends on the forces between them. Like the reason that
a rock has the size it has, it's not because
of the pile of stuff it's made out of, but
because the forces between those particles sort of pressing against
each other, fluffing it up. It's really like a pile
of little bubbles where those bubbles are made by the
(12:39):
electrostatic forces repelling each other. If you can overcome that,
then you can squeeze it down to whatever you like
and eventually get a black hole. Right, So that could
happen to the Earth if somebody came in and then
squeeze it all into black hole. But then I guess
Beckham's question is whether or not we would get automatically
sucked in, or like, are we doomed if the Earth
suddenly became a black hole? Or do we have a
(13:02):
chance of getting away? The question is how far away
would you have to be to not get sucked in? Well,
I consider myself to be part of the Earth and
so and I'm usually on the Earth. So if somebody
comes along and compactifies the Earth into a black hole,
then I'm inside the black hole already. But you know,
if you happen to be on a trip to the
space station when the Earth turns into a black hole,
(13:22):
then I guess you can ask the question like, can
you be around it safely nearby? I mean, let's make
this realistic, right right, Yeah, let's pretend that you're part
of this earth, Daniel. Let's dove into that fantasy. And
you hear it in the question this idea that black
holes sucks stuff in. And it's true the black holes
have strong gravity, but they're not like vacuum cleaners, you know,
(13:44):
they just pull on stuff the way everything else with
gravity pulls on stuff. The Earth pulls on you right now,
and that doesn't change just because it's turned into a
black hole. So for example, if you're standing on the
surface of the Earth, you feel it's gravity. If then
underneath you the whole Earth turns into a peanut sized
black hole, that doesn't change the force of gravity you
(14:04):
feel because it's the same amount of mass pulling on
you with the same gravity right like, nothing would change
basically except that you and maybe just lose the ground
under you. You would lose the ground under you. And
so now, if you want to avoid falling into the
black hole, I prefer the phrase falling in rather than
getting sucked in, because it tells us about the gravity
that's happening there. You need to go into orbit around
(14:25):
the black hole. The reason you don't fall to the
center of the Earth now is because the Earth is
holding you up. If that's not the case, then you
need some other way to avoid falling into the center
of this new black hole, and that would be to
go into orbit. Basically you need to be moving fast
enough that you keep missing the Earth as you fall.
That's what an orbit is. I see. So we would
feel the same gravitational force, which means we would fall
(14:48):
into the peanut sized black hole if the Earth suddenly
turned into a black hole. And so it's not a
matter of distance because I guess technically you would feel
the force from this black hole anywhere in the universe. Right.
Technically speaking, you do feel it anywhere in the universe
because gravity is infinite in extent. I mean, it falls
off like one over distance squared, so it drops off
pretty quickly. But yeah, in principle, we feel gravity from Andromeda.
(15:12):
That's why that neighboring galaxy is coming towards us and
we're shooting towards it. We feel gravity from things that
are infinitely far away, that's true, but the value of
that is pretty small, and so as you get closer
to something, it's gravity gets much much stronger because it
increases like one over our squared right, So like technically
we are getting pulled into all the black holes in
(15:32):
the universe right now, like every black hole in the universe,
for which they might be an infinite amount or trillions.
We're getting sucked into them as we speak, right, Yeah,
they are tugging on us, but they're being defeated by
the gravity of the Earth of course, and the Earth
being pretty massive and pretty close is overpowering it. I think,
for example, about the Sun. The Sun is so much
(15:53):
more massive than the Earth wise that you don't fall
into the Sun right now, because the Earth, even though
it's much much smaller mass, is much closer to you.
So it's winning the gravitational tug of war and keeping
you on the surface. Right, But technically we are me
and the Earth. We are still falling into the Sun.
It's just like, as you say, we're in orbit, we
have some kind of velocity in a different direction than
(16:15):
the direction of the Sun, and so that's why really
we're not falling into the Sun exactly. We have just
the right velocity and just the right direction to be
in a stable orbit around the Sun. So you can
avoid falling into something if you orbit around it. And
in fact, a lot of stuff orbits around black holes.
If you think about like the picture you have in
your mind of a black hole, it's this black sphere,
but it's surrounded by a disc of swirling stuff, and
(16:39):
you might wonder, well, why is that stuff there, Why
isn't it just immediately falling into the black hole? And
the answer is that it's spinning. It has rotational velocity,
and that helps it avoid falling in immediately. So you
can stay in orbit around the black hole for quite
a while until you lose that velocity by bouncing off
of other stuff, and then you fall into it. Right, So,
I guess technically if the Earth turned into a black hole,
(17:01):
you would get sucked in even as you're standing there now.
But also maybe if you're relatively far away, like at
the distance of the Moon or something, you would fall
in unless you can get into an orbit. Yeah, that's right.
If you were on the Moon, for example, you'd already
be in the Moon's orbit, and so you just stay
on the Moon and the Moon would keep orbiting around
the black hole. If you're on the surface of the Earth, however,
(17:21):
you're probably not moving fast enough to stay in orbit.
M I see. So the trick to avoiding falling into
the black peanut hole is to start running really fast, yeah, exactly,
Or get on a spaceship and how fast you have
to go to be in orbit depends on how far
away you are from the black hole. The closer you are,
the faster you have to be moving, and the further
(17:42):
away you are, the slower you can move and be
in a stable orbit. All right, So then I guess
the answer to the question is really that it's not
about being far away, it's about having some sort of
speed that lets you be in an orbit around the
black hole. Yeah, precisely. And if you were, for example,
at a hundred kilometers away from the black hole, which
is pretty close, you'd have to go like sixty meters
(18:03):
per second to avoid falling in. And if you were
at one kilometer it'll be ten times that speed. And
if you were just like one meter away from this
peanut sized black hole, you'd have to go like twenty
million meters per second. Wow, which is a your You'd
be toast right, because you can go around that fast
around something that's small, can you? Certainly you could. You
(18:26):
could be a meter away, you could be whipping around
really really fast. It'd be hard to accelerate to that
speed without like crushing your internal organs. But you know,
even that speed, though it sounds fast, is a pretty
small fraction of the speed of light, So in principle
you could actually go that fast. Right, What about here
in the surface of the Earth, how fast would you
need to be going? Like, if I'm in the highway
(18:46):
going at you know, seventy miles per hour? Am I
safe if the Earth suddenly turned into a black hole? Yeah?
So if you're at the surface of the Earth, which
is six million meters from the center of the Earth,
then you need a velocity of about seventy nine hundred
meters per second to avoid falling into the surface of
the Earth. All right, that sounds not in the millions.
How does that translate into miles per hour? That's like
(19:09):
seventeen thousand miles per hour, So it's definitely faster than
you're moving right now. If you're just standing still on
the surface of the Earth, then you know the Earth
goes around one time per day obviously, then you're moving
to like four hundred and sixty meters per second, so
you're moving a lot slower than you would have to
be if you wanted to avoid falling into a black
hole at the center of the Earth. Okay, so then
(19:31):
the answer then would be it would all fall in
as you like to say, unless you just happened to
be breaking some sort of crazy speed record on land. Yeah,
or you had access to some really powerful rocket or
spaceship or something. Oh, I see, you could activate it
as soon as you hear news and the Earth turned
into a black hole, you could activate your your jet
pack and then fly away. If I had a jet
(19:53):
pack and I saw the Earth sort of crumbling beneath
me into a black hole, then yeah, I would turn
that thing on. And that's why you have it. See,
I would have given it to my kids first, But
you know that's that's just me. I'm just kidding. First,
put the mask on yourself. Then help the child not
know what they say. Alright, Well back, Unfortunately, I don't
think you have to worry about that, right. I don't
(20:14):
think the Earth is in danger of turning into a
black hole anytime soon, unless Beckham has some evil plans
to grow up and compactify the Earth into a black hole,
and we've just aided them. Why why did why they
need to grow up? They could be a child genius,
evil genius. Well here's the opening. You're not Beckham, but
thanks for asking the question. All right, Well, let's get
(20:34):
into our two other questions for today, one about entropedean
time and the other one about radio births. But first
let's take a quick break. Alright. We're answering listener questions
(20:56):
today on the podcast, and our next question comes from
who is from Germany. Here's day's question. What I would
like to know is in one of your podcasts, Daniel
explained that when space is generated, each concrement of space
is containing its own newly generated increment of energy. And
(21:19):
I understand that energy when it's existing, that it can
be converted. Now normally, when energy is converted, as to
my understanding, there's also entropy generated. I wonder what happens
with this entropy. Far as I know, entropy and time
are the only two physical components which move forward in time,
(21:40):
or rather are generated and only in one direction. So
are there any connections between entropy and time? And if
there's a connection between entropy and time, would time freeze
when there's no more entropy to be generated in our universe? Alright,
thank you Dave from Germany. It's like kind of a
(22:01):
complicated question here. I think he's asking whether you know
I think we've talked about how energy is generated when
new space is created in the universe, and so there's
maybe some entropy associated with that energy, and so what's
going to happen, you know, at the end of time,
when maybe the universe is not expanding or we run
out of entropy. What do you think he's asking. I
(22:22):
think he's got a lot of fun questions, and I
think he had more questions sort of generated in his
mind as he was asking his initial question, And I
think that makes sense because a lot of these things
are connected. I think the heart of the question is
probably about how the expansion of space is connected to
the end of the universe, you know, like, is the
expansion of space dooming us to a certain eventual fate
(22:44):
of the universe. And I guess specifically he was asking, like,
when the universe expands, is entropy increasing as well. Yeah,
that's a really cool question because you know, we've talked
about how the expansion of space breaks something else which
we always was fundamental and ironclad rule of the universe
that energy is conserved. And you know, energy is conserved,
(23:07):
but only when space is static. Remember that a lot
of these conservation laws come from symmetries that come from
assumptions that we can make about the universe, and one
of them is that space is static and so energy
is only conserved when that holds, and if the universe
is expanding, that doesn't hold anymore. So it makes sense
to also ask, like what else gets broken when space expands,
(23:28):
when the universe is creating more space. So is entropy
being created with new space in the universe? I wouldn't
say created, right, Entropy is not something that like you create.
It's not a physical thing. It's like a calculation that
we can do to evaluate a situation. Say what is
the entropy of this? You know, you can like run
(23:48):
the numbers and say what's the entropy of this situation
versus that situation. I don't think of entropy is like
a physical thing that's actually made. But you can ask
the question when space expands, when new space is being created,
does entropy go up or down? I see, is it
being created or not? Just kidding? I guess is entropy
increasing one space increases as well? That's the question. Yeah,
(24:12):
And it makes absolute sense, and I think the answer
has to be yes, and not just because of the
second law of thermodynamics that says that you know, entropy
always goes up. But because of the nature of entropy, right,
entropyes are really slippery concept, and I think a lot
of people think of entropy is like the amount of
disorder or disorganization, sort of in the university amount. Stuff
(24:32):
is sort of mixed up. It's a messy topic, and
that's a helpful way to think about it, sort of approximately.
But what entropy actually is is sort of a measurement
of our ignorance about what's going on at the smallest level.
To calculate entropy, you have to make like a statement
about something macroscopically, like it's temperature or it's a volume
(24:53):
or something you know macroscopically that we can see and measure,
and then compare that to what we know about it microscopically.
So entropy is related to the number of different ways
you can make microscopic arrangements that are consistent with your
macroscopic statements about things like temperature. So it's like a
measure of like how much we don't know about the
microscopic states. Right. It's it's almost like, you know, the
(25:14):
messier things are, the more different ways that the messiness
can be. But if you want something really neat and ordered,
you you only have so many options. Yeah, it's like
if you have a bunch of coins and I tell
you all the coins are heads, well, then I've told
you exactly how every coin has to be. They all
have to be heads. There's only one way for that
to happen. Right, that's low entropy. Right, Yeah, that's low
(25:35):
entropy exactly. But if then I tell you, well, half
the coins are heads, then now you have a lot
of different ways to arrange all those coins. As long
as half of them are heads, you're free to decide
for this coin and for that coin whether it's heads
or tails. So there's a lot of ways to arrange
the coins to satisfy my sort of macroscopic statement that
half of them are heads. And so that means it's
(25:57):
high entropy because there's a lot of configurations. And the
second law of thermodynamics is nothing more than that. It's
just saying things that have high entropy are more likely
to happen because there are more ways for it to happen.
And usually that happens with time, right, And usually that
happens with time, Like the more time passes, the more
the things that are likely or likely to happen. Yeah, exactly.
(26:18):
It's a foundational idea and quantum mechanics that every possible
state microscopically is equivalently likely. But if more of those
states represent the same thing macroscopically, like they're close to
a fifty fifty split heads and tails, then they're more
likely to happen because they're just more of those possible outcomes.
It's like if you roll a huge handful of dying,
you add up all the numbers, you're much more likely
(26:40):
to get something near the middle of the possible outcomes
than the very maximum value or the very minimum value,
just because there's more ways to get that outcome, and
there's only one way to get the maximum and one
way to get the minimum. So it's really just a
statement of probability. So then does that mean that as
you get more space in the universe, there's kind of
more ways for things to be arranged, and therefore entropy
(27:03):
it just naturally increases. Yep, that's exactly what happens. The
more ways you have for things to be arranged under
the hood, the more entropy you have, and the more
space means more micro states. More micro states means more entropy.
I see, all right, So then is that what is
causing enterpying the universe to increase or is it just
(27:24):
helping entropy increase in the universe, entropy would be increasing
even without dark energy space was not expanding, then entropy
would be increasing anyway. And just because that's where the
second lofterm dynamic says that if you start from a
low entropy configuration, unlikely arrangement if your micro states, you're
going to end up in a more likely arrangement as
time goes on. So even if space was not increasing,
(27:47):
that there was no expansion, entropy would still be gradually
going up. But as you say, it's helped by the
fact that space is expanding and so there's more stuff
to get mixed up, and so entropy is increasing that
way as well. I see, so entropies like accelerating in
the universe because of dark energy, which is the expansion
(28:07):
of the universe. M m M. And he asked another
sort of fun question there because he was talking about
energy conversion. You know, every time you turn one kind
of energy into another kind of energy, it's never perfectly efficient.
A little bit leaks out as heat, and that also
is an increase in entropy. But it's really the same thing,
because heat spreading out is really just like more micro
(28:28):
states sharing in the wealth of the energy, and it's
spreading out. It's more likely for energy to be spread
out than for it to be compact. But he's talking
about how when you convert one kind of energy into another,
entropy goes up, and he's wondering about, like the actual
process of creation of space itself, does that like leak
heat out into the universe. What I guess, if you're
(28:49):
creating space, you're creating energy, and if you're creating energy,
you're heating things up. Yeah, it's a really fun question.
I've never really thought about that before. The problem is
that we don't have any idea for what that process is. Like,
we know that the expansion of the universe is accelerating
and that means space is being stretched and created, but
we don't really know what the mechanism is for that
(29:10):
to happen. We don't have an explanation for that. Some
people think it might come from negative pressure from quantum
zero point energy and all the fields that are in space,
But if you do the calculation, that doesn't actually work.
It doesn't explain what we see. So we observe that
space is being created, but we don't know what's doing it,
so we have no concept for this mechanism. We don't
(29:31):
know if it actually involves an energy conversion from some
other source of external energy we haven't been aware of,
or if it's actual creation of energy itself. I see.
So we're too clueless to really answer that question, sorry, Dave. Well,
if there's entropy being generated by dark energy, can I
call it dark entropy? You can call it whatever you like.
(29:53):
I think I'm gonna reserve that for my new sci
fi novel, Dark Enterpy. That is a cool title, actually
mysterious and chaotic. There you go, all right, And then
there was a sort of an appendent question at the
end here about whether you know at the end of
time or at the universe keeps expanding and expanding and
entropy keeps increasing, does that mean that time is going
(30:16):
to end or freeze? Yeah? Everybody wants to know the
answer to that question, Dave, and unfortunately nobody does. Right.
We just don't know what the future of dark energy is.
Will it continue to pull stuff apart and write everything
out and increase the entropy of the universe till an
eventual heat death. We just don't know, because again we
don't know what the mechanism is, and we don't know
(30:36):
if it will continue. Remember that dark energy has not
been persistent in our universe. While we think the cosmological
constant might be constant because it's called the cosmological constant.
Dark energy itself only took over around five billion years
ago to create this accelerated expansion, So we don't know
why it turned on around. Then we don't know if
(30:57):
it's going to keep going, if it's gonna stop, if
it's going to turn around and shrink the universe back
down to some other crazy dense state. So we just
really don't know. We can't predict because we don't understand
this mechanism at all. All right, So then I guess
the question is stay tuned and or we have no idea. Sorry, Dave,
we have no idea, stay tuned. We may still have
(31:17):
no idea in a billion years. This is going to
be messy either way. All right, Well, thank you Dave.
That answers that question, And so let's get into our
last question of the episode from Robin, and it's about
radio birth. But first let's take another quick break. All right,
(31:46):
we're answering listener questions today on the podcast, and our
last question comes from Robin from Oregon and she has
a question about the National Radio Quiet Zone. Hello, Daniel
and Jorge. Hey, this is Robin Mark in Cobrag, Oregon. Um.
I just got done listening to your show about fast
(32:07):
radio bursts and it got me thinking about the National
Radio Quiet Zone in Green Bank, West Virginia, where basically
nothing electronic is allowed. No microwaves, no cell phones, no WiFi.
I thought it would make a great episode on your podcast.
What do you think? All right? Thank you, Robbing. That
(32:28):
sounds like a great place to visit for a vacation.
No cellphones, no electronics. I mean, you probably go a
little crazy the first couple of days, but maybe you
we reach some sort of zen state afterwards. Yeah. It's
an amazing sort of spot in the country where they've
really tried to keep things quiet so that astronomers can
listen to the skies and not be crowded out by
(32:50):
all the crazy radio signals that humans to generate. So
this is an actual place in the United States, in
West Virginia. This is an actual place in West Virginia.
The most powerful radio telescope in our hemisphere, and the
largest steerable radio telescope is now the Green Bank Observatory
in West Virginia exactly. And you know, this thing is
(33:11):
listening to the sky, and it's listening to the sky
not in terms of sound, of course, but in terms
of a special frequency of light we call radio waves.
And if you want to listen to the sky, you
have to make sure you're not drowned out by basically
light pollution from other sources of radio emissions. And I
guess all of our cell phones, most of our electronics,
(33:32):
they use these radio frequencies. They do, they use these
radio frequencies, were constantly beaming radio waves around the world
right for radio right If you're listening to us on
the radio right now, then we have been transmitted to
you using this kind of electromagnetic radiation whose frequency puts
it in the radio band. And not just our cell
(33:54):
phones and not just our radio towers, but a lot
of our electronics accidentally sort of incidentally generated radio noise. Well,
this is interesting. How big is this national radio quiet
and it's like a federal thing, or how do people
all agree in the large of a space to not
use their cell phones. It is a federal thing was
(34:14):
created in ninety eight. It's this big rectangle of land.
It's about a hundred miles on a side, and so
it's really pretty spacious. And it surrounds this Green Bank
Observatory in West Virginia. Cool and you said it was
creating a nine. We have radios. I guess we had
radios and TV, but no cell phones back then, no
cell phones. But these days also they try to restrict
(34:35):
WiFi usage that also operates in the similar frequencies. All right,
forget it. I mean I can go in a vacation
with no cell phones but WiFi. Yeah. So they try
to be as quiet as possible, and they actually drive
around with this truck listening for radio signals, trying to
catch people like emitting in their radio. And yeah, they do.
(34:57):
They drive this patrol truck around listening for emitters because
some people just aren't aware. Like if you have an
old microwave oven that's poorly shielded, you can generate a
lot of radio noise. I see. But then if they
find somebody, how do they radio it in to come
take them away? They can't, they can't. They just politely
knock on the door and ask those folks to stop
using it. It's not heavily and forced, like you can
(35:18):
get a fifty dollar fine for emitting radio in the
quiet zone. But they mostly just try to work with
people and help them understand the importance of radio astronomy
and what they're trying to do. That would be an
expensive phone call if it cost you, And this is
the real concerned. This is hilarious story from Australia where
they also have a big radio telescope where they saw
these weird signals and you know, they're listening for messages
(35:41):
from outer space and they saw this bizarre signal they
couldn't understand until they finally tracked it down after more
than a decade to be the microwave in the break
room where the grad students hang out. What they couldn't
figure out why this signal always lasted the same amount
as as a popcorn sitting on the micro Yeah, basically
grad students eating frozen burritos created a false signal of extraterrestrials.
(36:06):
I guess these telescopes are pretty sensitive, right, Like you're
trying to detect really weak signals from space exactly, we
are trying to listen to really quiet signals. Remember that
the power of signal falls very quickly with the distance.
You know, if you shout from the top of a mountain,
then people can hear you if they're close by, but
as they get further and further away, it's harder and
harder to hear that shout. It falls with the distance squared.
(36:29):
And so the message, for example, from an alien civilization
could come with a very small amount of energy by
the time it gets here. I see it's like I
think you were telling me once. It's like the energy
of a falling snowflake. Yes, it's a very very gentle
ripple in the electromagnetic fields. And that's why this dish
is huge. This thing is as tall as the Washington Monument.
(36:51):
It's got two acres of area on the dish. What. Yeah, Also,
it's kind of beautiful. You should check out a Google
image of this thing. It's bigger than like the receive
it's not bigger, unfortunately, but it is steerable right air
cebo sort of built into the ground. This thing is
above ground, but they can turn it so they can
point it in various directions and that helps them understand
like the location or the source of a signal. I
(37:14):
guess one question is why aren't there more of these
radio quiet zones, Like you know, I've been to Hawaii
and the telescopes and note they'll find me for using
my cell phone up there. Well, they don't have radio
telescopes in Hawaii. Most of those are optical telescopes. So
this is a special kind of telescope that's listening for radio,
and so it's mostly sensitive to radio noise, and radio
(37:35):
telescopes aren't as common as optical telescopes. It's a sort
of special branch of astronomy, I see, and it's a
really exciting one. I mean, there's lots of really interesting
things you can learn about the universe just by listening
to the sky in the radio. You know. This is
how we discovered, for example, that the center of our
galaxy had a black hole, because people heard this weird
signal from the center of the galaxy and they thought,
(37:57):
what's that? What could be they're making this weird holts? Wow,
And then we pointed one of these telescopes to the
center of the galaxy. Yeah, that's how we figured it out.
Radio astronomy. The whole field was sort of invented accidentally.
There was an engineer at Bell Labs who was asked
to figure out, like, could we beam signals using radio
waves across the Atlantic? How much interference is there? So
(38:18):
he just built a huge radio antenna to sort of
listen for the amount of noise. He was more worried
about thunderstorms, but then he heard this weird signal than
he discovered. Hold on a second, this isn't even coming
from Earth, It's coming from somewhere else. And that's when
radio astronomy was born. We realized that the stars were
sending us information in another frequency and nobody had been listening. Interesting,
(38:39):
I guess that the universe is sending us signals and
all frequencies. Really, that's why we listened to the radio,
and the X ray and the optical. We look at
gamma rays, we look at every sort of kind of
frequency because different parts of the universe glow at different
frequencies of light. Right, the horder you are, the higher
your temperature, and the more energetic, the higher the frequency
(38:59):
you mid of your radiation. So radio waves come from
sort of cooler, quieter stuff, but it's also very powerful.
It's very good at seeing dark stuff. That you can't
otherwise see, like huge clouds of gas and dust that
aren't glowing in the visible light. Right. And and sometimes
when you see those photos of like giant space nebula
or giant clusters of stuff out there in space, and
(39:20):
you see has all these colors. That's really what it is, right,
Like they sort of manipulate the signals from all these
different frequencies and they assigned colors to them. Yeah, a
lot of times they do a color map. Right. They
take things which are invisible to your eyes. Right, you
can't see radio waves even when they hit your eyeballs,
you can't see them. And then they shift their frequency
so that you can see it. They map it into
the visible spectrum. All right. So then this National Radio Quiet,
(39:44):
So can anyone go visit? Is it open to the
public or do you have to like sign in or
get permission. There's a huge area of land, so it
includes like cities. People live there, Like people's homes are
in this area. It's not a closed off region. People
live there, but there's no radio signals rights, no radio station.
You can't use cell phones, you're not supposed to have WiFi.
There's like wold towns with no cell phone or WiFi signals. Yeah,
(40:07):
there's like a whole mountain resort there that has like
you know, land lines and phone booths and all sorts
of quaint stuff. Wait, what's a phone booth. It's this
thing I see on Doctor Who. I don't really know
what it's. And some people really like to live there,
Like some folks feel hyper sensitive to electromagnetic radiation, you know,
they don't like to live near sources of it. And
(40:28):
so if you're that kind of person, then this is
made for you. Or if you're a radio astronomer. Wow,
I wonder if people are happier there, you know what
I mean. Like, I feel like maybe my life was
a little happier before this sort of constant source of
noise in my pocket, all those email things that you
don't pay attention to, all these things that you know,
I have to ignore. I don't know. And it's a
great place to do radio astronomy, but it might also
(40:50):
be a good place to do with psychology study of
the effects of modern communication. I'm sure somebody's looked into that. Interesting. Unfortunately,
most of the people who live there are physicists, so
you know that the happiness question down. It definitely excused
the sample for sure, that it wouldn't be a scientific study.
All right, well, thank you Robin for that question. It
was a fun topic to explore. I had had no
(41:11):
idea about this National Radio Quiet Zone in West Virginia,
that's right. So if you are driving through it, please
don't blast your stereo or turn on your WiFi or
open up your phone, because those astronomers want to hear
the message from the aliens when it comes and not
your silly emails. Yeah. All right, well those are our
three questions for today. And once again, it's amazing, first
(41:31):
of all that people are listening to this podcast. Thank
you so much for being there for us. And it's
amazing the range of questions we get from people from
all over the world. That's right. And remember that science
is just people asking their personal questions about the universe.
So keep asking your questions. Think to yourself, if I
could get the answer to one question about the universe,
(41:52):
what would be my one question. And if you know
what that question is and you don't know the answer,
hey right to us. Maybe we can help you figure
it out. We'll ask questions right back at you and
avoid answering it like we did some questions today and
then we'll run away to the radio free zone and
avoid your email. It sounds like a good deal, all right. Well,
thank you for joining us. I hope you enjoyed that.
(42:15):
See you next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that
Daniel and Jorge explained. The Universe is a production of
I Heart Radio or more podcast For my heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
(42:35):
you listen to your favorite shows. Ye
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Whiteson
Kelly Weinersmith
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