July 17, 2020 • 24 mins
Dani and Alicia continue their conversation about becoming the person you were always meant to be, and Alicia shares her strategy for moving forward when you find yourself at a crossroads—learn to feel out, and trust, the resounding yeses. (Alicia’s memoir, More Myself: A Journey, is out now.)
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. I'm
Danny Shapiro and this is part two of my special
bonus episode Conversation with Alicia Keys. I hope you enjoy
it as much as I did. We'll be back with
(00:21):
a brand new season of Family Secrets in October. You're
right about going to see Oprah to ask her her advice. Um,
we're kind of at a cross roads. And what comes
(00:42):
out of that conversation with Oprah is this whole idea
of the resounding yes, you know, like that's and that feeling.
And I think everyone can relate to this if we
get quiet enough to actually pay it tension to that
still inner voice, which you know, Look, you and I
(01:06):
are having this conversation at a time where there's these
reckonings upon reckonings going on all over the globe and
people are in a way have been forced to become
more introspective, whether we like it or not, and to
face ourselves and to be in this slowed down state
(01:30):
that we didn't choose. It's not like we all decided
to go off on a retreat. It's like it it
came to us. And you talk about this resounding yes
and it's also kind of in the context of getting
quiet enough to hear it, giving yourself the space and
(01:51):
the time, something that you've been super deliberate about doing.
I think it seems for a long time of implementing
that space of quiet in your life. Can you talk
a little bit about that. Oh my goodness, the resounding
yes moment was definitely a huge, huge, huge turning point
to me for me and um when I when I
(02:16):
went to you know, when I went to sit down
with Oprah and speak with her, I was talking about
there is a big transition happening in my life. Again.
It was right on the heels of what I just
described to this album called Here, where I was really
starting to recognize who I did not want to be anymore,
(02:36):
and I was starting to let go of a lot
of relationships, business relationships, the personal relationships that I had
used to define me or to as used as crutches.
Thinking that I could not, um do what I was
doing without these people, that these people kind of made
me who I was or who I am or whatever.
(02:57):
I kind of decided that or they helped me decide
because they benefited them for sure, whatever the case was,
And I just didn't know what to do because I
had this feeling that I just couldn't find the right partnership.
I couldn't find the right people to to help me
go to the next place and to continue on my
journey in a way that was even more meaningful and
(03:21):
and and more powerful. And and so I would I
just I I finally she invited me to something special,
and I thought, oh, how great would this be to
just ask her advice about this? Because that's another thing
I think we probably don't do enough. I definitely don't
often where more now I'm getting better now where to
reach out to people that may everybody can't reach out
(03:44):
to Oprah. I'm not trying to say that that we
all end. I'm surprised that I can't trust me, um,
but the but there are people in our lives that
have great experiences, and a lot of the time we
won't reach out to them because we don't want to
bother them. I looked at probably so busy, or look,
they're already dealing with all of this, man, they probably
(04:08):
how would they know? Or we feel embarrassed that we
don't know, or whatever the case. And I think for
a lot of years that maybe didn't utilize my mentorship
or the people who could give me great advice the
way to the highest capacity because I didn't want to
be intrusive, or I didn't want to seem like I
didn't know, or a lot of my life I spent
(04:29):
pretending I knew more than I actually did, which we
probably all find ourselves in one way or another. So,
you know, finally when I had the courage to kind
of speak out this this this mentor who I knew
would have some thoughts about it, it really was a
powerful awakening because she was able to share how she
herself found herself in a position of of looking to
(04:51):
other people to always kind of come up with the
big ideas or assuming they would know better than her,
and until she finally realized that, you know, nobody knows
you more than you, just they just can't. They just
don't live with you, they're not close to you, they
don't know your heart like that. They don't even have
access to those places that you have access to, So
nobody knows you better than you and I and I
(05:15):
didn't really see it like that for so long, and
I always gave so much more credit to everybody else,
which was a part of that hiding thing that I
spoke about started to happen in the beginning, and a
part of this, uh you know, idea of maybe not
accepting the greatness that's within us. I think we do
that a lot, especially as women. You know, we're very
(05:38):
powerful beings. And I think that makes that scary to
the world. It's scary to ourselves, you know, to be
so you know, creative. I mean, by the nature of us,
we create, and so to to create anything out of
any circumstance, out of nothing is it's scary. And and
to embrace that's terrifying. And I also feel like that sometimes.
(06:02):
So when she shared that with me and and really understanding,
right how who could know better than me? Nobody could
know better than me? And to start to develop that
trust with yourself and a confidence in yourself almost the beginning.
But I still it's sound. I got it in theory,
but I still can't figure out how to like really
(06:22):
make it make sense. How do you actually make that
makes sense and do that in a tactic, tactful way.
And and and it wasn't until she said, because you
know what a resounding yes feels like, And I was like, oh, actually,
I do know what a resounding is still, Like, I
(06:43):
know when a thing is like I'm so excited to
do a thing or to go to a thing or
to talk to a person or whatever, and it's like
so strong, and I'm like, uh huh, I'm doing that
for sure without a doubt. And then I know the
one that's like I think I should do it because
it's the right thing, that right. Isn't that going to
make this happen? Whatever we do that convinces us to
(07:04):
do this. I know what that feels like too, And
that's not a resounding. It So when she said you
know what it resounding, it feels like I finally got it.
The resounding yes is something that that is actually applicable.
You know. It's like it's like a tool in your
toolbox that you can come back to again and again, like, Oh,
that's what that feels like. I know what that feels like.
(07:26):
And then conversely, that means I know what it feels
like when it's not the case yes, And so I
know when it's right for me because if a resounding
yet opposed to this deliberation that we all do, is
it right? Is it not right? Is it right? Is
it not right. You know right away that they resounding yes.
So that started to give me some clarity about how
(07:48):
I could start to make some decisions and some difficult decisions,
and and to be more in control of my compass,
you know where it was leading me, as opposed to
feeling so obligated to ask if anybody else or too,
you know, ask people with more experience, figuring that they
knew better, but they don't know better than you. You
know the best for you. You're the best student of yourself.
(08:11):
M M. I love that We'll be back in a
moment with more family secrets. There's just a couple more
things I'd love to talk to you about. And um,
you go on after your your two kids, your two
boys are born, and you are convinced. I think it's
(08:33):
about your friend Erica, who's such a great friend. Um,
to go on a meditation retreat and you know, like
any mom in that situation, I've been there myself. It's
like do I go? Do I not go? I can't go.
They're not going to survive without me. What will they eat?
You know, how how can they possibly? How can I
go do this thing? But you go and you and
(08:55):
you do you take the time and the space for yourself,
and it's a Cundalini yoga retreat, and it's like you
you find a spiritual practice that really really speaks to
you and resonates with you. Um, and then you talk
about the way that that creates quiet for you, and
(09:20):
you know, to connect the whole idea of that kind
of quiet too, when you can really hear the resounding yes,
or when you can really hear your deepest inner wisdom yes,
Oh my goodness. And I was so I truly I
was so disconnected to my own intuition so many ways,
and I never even thought of taking the time to
(09:45):
pour into myself or to even you know, dedicate X
amount of minutes a day to do that. I just
didn't know what that was. I hadn't had been exposed
to meditation before in a few different ways and breathing
and things like that, but I just didn't I just
didn't know exactly what to do with it or how
to make it part of my life style. And my
(10:08):
friend Erica, you know, she really did challenge me because
she told me about this retreat and she said, and
I'm making every excuse and the baby and I can't
be away. And at the time, I was like, right
around my husbin's birthday, I think I would have had
to come home right at the you know, right on
the day of his birthday, all these things that I
was using as excuses. And she asked me, when was
(10:31):
the last time you did anything for yourself? And I
I couldn't really answer her, and that, of course kind
of pushed me two, you know, pushed me to say
I have to do it, and so would. It introduced
me to really open me up to another logical and
(10:56):
an applicable way of connecting with spirit, of connecting with
my own internal compass and with my intuition, and just
the silence that I think it takes to start to
hear yourself, which you know I didn't do well before.
I didn't. I filled up every minute, I answered every request.
(11:17):
I tried to show up for every single person and things,
and and I never had I never knew how to
take that time to be silent and quiet with myself
for myself. And it really changed everything. And it did
help me to identify more clearly the resounding yeses and
and a nose and even the ones that were like I,
(11:39):
like maybes I was like, Okay, it was not a yes,
I still a no. And that's that's it. It's really
it's really been powerful and a challenge to always keep
up um, but something that I really believe in. Yeah,
it's it's making me think too, Like just circling back
to the beginning of our conversation about the the way
(12:01):
that these lessons, over the course of a life continue
to return and return to us um maybe always, maybe forever,
or maybe until we learn them. But even when we
learn them, we're still learning them anew. And you know,
towards the very end of of your your book, there's
(12:23):
this really beautiful passage and I won't read the whole thing,
but I'll just read the very beginning, which is the
path to self discovery is not a straight line. It's
a zig zag. We move in and out of awareness.
One step forwards, three steps to the left, a baby
step back, another leap forward. A lightbulb moment might shine
brightly one day but then flicker the next. It takes
(12:44):
work to hold tightly to a certain consciousness to live
in its wisdom every day. I have to intentionally maintain
an awareness of my value. I know I'm worthy, but
you don't cross over into the land of self worth
and just become a permanent resident. You have to keep
your passport current. I love that, I mean, And that's
(13:05):
what you're that's what you're describing there, with the meditation,
with the that deliberate you know, listening for the resounding. Yes,
it's like renewing. We all need to renew our passports
every day. Otherwise they really do just kind of sit
there in the drawer and we don't we don't learn,
and we don't grow. Yeah, oh my god, so much.
(13:28):
And it's just natural because you know, these things come
to us in so many different ways and from so
many different spaces, and and and and they're meant to
elevate us, and we we want to be elevated, and
we're ready to be elevated, and and and but it's tricky,
(13:49):
and definitely it's surely you have to keep reminding yourself,
and you have to keep telling yourself that you know.
So sometimes when I feel a little bit, a little bit,
you know, something's not going quite right, or maybe my
confidence is a little shaken over a particular this or that. Um,
(14:10):
there are times that I will literally say to myself,
you deserve this. You deserve this, You deserve this, you
deserve and I'll say it a billion times just to
remind myself that I deserve it. And you know, and
that's just naturally go through these places and have these
(14:30):
feelings where we're uncertain or it's a new place and
we don't know what to do in that place, or
you know, we're more comfortable in these other spaces because
we've been there before, and and and so this reminder
and this kind of constant reaching towards your higher you.
You know, um, you don't have to feel guilty about it.
(14:53):
And I think for a long time, I felt pretty
guilty about being great. I felt pretty guilty about, um,
you know, having opportunities that the people around me. I
I didn't see them having those same opportunities. And and
I wanted us all to have the same opportunities at
the same time and reach all of our dreams at
the same time. And and you know, everybody has their
(15:15):
own journey, and you don't have to feel guilty about yours. Um.
In fact, yours will likely inspire the next person. You know,
if you can just own it and own your your
wonder and your magnificence and your light and your connection
to you know, what your purpose is. So so I
agree this. You do have to keep kind of renewing
(15:37):
that passport. You have to keep in minding, and so
you do have to make sure those lessons you learned,
you didn't um, just learn it for that moment and
forget it, which I keep myself all the time, and
I find myself doing that, you know, then remember it
again and keep on going. So I think there's I
think there's really high heights to reach that we haven't
even realized yet. And I'm really excited it and I'm
(16:00):
looking forward to continuing to reach down. We'll be right back.
I have one last question for you. UM. Yeah, as
we're speaking, you know, during this time of reckoning. On
top of reckoning, you just released the single Perfect Way
(16:21):
to Die, which is chilling and magnificent. UM. I mean chilling,
like chills up and down my body listening to it.
I'm sure I'm far from alone, UM, And I'm just wondering,
as an artist, how do you respond in the moment
(16:44):
to the moment. I think it's something that artists so
often struggle with when we're in um, you know, a
steam in history or you know, we're really living through something, right, Um? Yeah,
how do I respond to it? Or how do I
choose to respond to it? I mean, I know this
is a song that you had written and hadn't released yet,
(17:06):
and in this moment it felt like time And that
makes so much sense. Why hadn't you released it before?
You know? And and what's the feeling creatively? You know,
I'm asking asking for a friend. Um, you know, what's
(17:27):
the feeling of being someone who makes art out of
life during a time when life is trembling? Mm hmm, wow, man,
I mean, we are all definitely in a new space
in so many ways. I mean, in so many ways.
(17:48):
We're in a really really repetitive space too that we
have witnessed, or some more than others witnessed over and
over again, time and time again. And the reason why
I call it a new space is because we, I
feel find are finding ourselves face to face with um,
(18:12):
the truth in a way that I don't know if
we've ever all had to look so glaringly and so
obviously and so clearly, and so it's just right in
front of us. Um, how much we are experiencing as
the collective and how much we are awakening as the collective,
(18:32):
and how much we're recognizing the inequality and the unfairness
that surrounds us, and how much we are all outraged
and invigorated too really learn more about it, speak up
more about it, be a part of the change of it,
the current of change, and and and figure out how
(18:54):
do we do that, How do we do that with
our kids? How are we doing that with each other?
How are we having reversations with our families? How are
we you know, how are we going out into the
world and and and expressing, you know, our intolerance with
hate and and racism and and this inequity overall. And
(19:17):
and so we're all in this new space to your
point of reckoning upon reckoning, I love how you've been
saying that. And we're just in this new space of
self reflection and uncovering and recognition and eye opening and
and it's it's uncomfortable, and it's scary, and it's crazy,
and and you so many of us just wish that
we could, you know, just erase all of the the
(19:41):
evils and the and the things that have been prevalent,
you know, in this country and in the world since
the beginning. Um but I think that there is also
this feeling of unity, and there's also this feeling of
having the hard conversation. It's the difficult conversations, and that's
great films of you know, of course, there's always going
(20:04):
to be every side, but I think we and for
me as an artist, I will truly, truly try and
want to focus on the part that can uplift us,
the part that can bring us to to a similar space,
to an equal ground, and to to touch us on
a level that is just visceral, because I think that's that,
(20:27):
to your point, that is the beauty of art. That's
why I'm so honored to be an artist that that
can speak to the moment, to the time, to the emotion,
to the feeling um because that's that's the part that
erases all the language barriers and all the different things
that try to make us feel separate from each other
(20:49):
and and and somehow we are all in one place
at one time with one feeling and and our eyes
are open. So I wrote this song Perfect Way to Die,
almost two years ago, and it was it was written
based off of what was happening with Mike Brown and
to mea rights and Trademon Martin and Sandra Blend and
so many other you know, just horrible murders of black people.
(21:14):
And I I knew that it would have its time
to come, and of course it could have been right then,
but it just felt like there was I was going
to hold onto it to find the right moment. And
I actually thought, after this project, Alicia have another project
that I'm sinalizing as well musically, and I thought it
(21:35):
would be on that one. But when I, you know,
realized and looked around and just as we all are
seeing everything and being a part of it and recognizing it,
it's just it was the words of everything we're feeling
right right right now, and and I was, I was
in awe and shocked that it almost felt like these
(22:00):
songs were written a while ago. Um, the last three
songs I've put out, I feel like they've been written
a while ago, but meant for this time. And and
so I just actually have been and also in a
state of just following, following and listening the listening of
it and and going with with that. UM, and I
(22:24):
think we're all in a place of deep listening. And
I and I really do believe that we're in a
place as deep awakening. Um, there's a you know, and
I think we're all discovering. So there's so much to
fight for, and there's so much that we have to
stand up for and stand up for each other for,
and and it's never going to change we don't all
(22:46):
recognize it and stand up for each other. So I
believe that we can see that happening. And I feel
like we're on the precipice of great change. And and
I know him an optimist, and I never want to
not be an optimist because we have to be and
and not only do we have to think it and
dream it and believe it, but we have to act
on it and not ignore it and be present. And
(23:11):
I believe we're doing it. M omen. Yeah, really, what
a privilege and a gift to have this conversation with you.
I really have just loved talking with you, and I'm
so excited to share it with so many people. Me
to have been really looking forward to this one, And
I really am so grateful for you too, and thank
(23:34):
you for taking the time to get into it and
sharing your perspective of it and bringing me into your
universe as well. And I'm really, really really blessed by
this conversation, so I can't wait to talk to you again.
Thanks me to Alicia, be well, Danny, you to take
care all right m HM. For more podcasts for My
(24:11):
Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. I'm
Danny Shapiro and this is part two of my special
bonus episode Conversation with Alicia Keys. I hope you enjoy
it as much as I did. We'll be back with
(00:21):
a brand new season of Family Secrets in October. You're
right about going to see Oprah to ask her her advice. Um,
we're kind of at a cross roads. And what comes
(00:42):
out of that conversation with Oprah is this whole idea
of the resounding yes, you know, like that's and that feeling.
And I think everyone can relate to this if we
get quiet enough to actually pay it tension to that
still inner voice, which you know, Look, you and I
(01:06):
are having this conversation at a time where there's these
reckonings upon reckonings going on all over the globe and
people are in a way have been forced to become
more introspective, whether we like it or not, and to
face ourselves and to be in this slowed down state
(01:30):
that we didn't choose. It's not like we all decided
to go off on a retreat. It's like it it
came to us. And you talk about this resounding yes
and it's also kind of in the context of getting
quiet enough to hear it, giving yourself the space and
(01:51):
the time, something that you've been super deliberate about doing.
I think it seems for a long time of implementing
that space of quiet in your life. Can you talk
a little bit about that. Oh my goodness, the resounding
yes moment was definitely a huge, huge, huge turning point
to me for me and um when I when I
(02:16):
went to you know, when I went to sit down
with Oprah and speak with her, I was talking about
there is a big transition happening in my life. Again.
It was right on the heels of what I just
described to this album called Here, where I was really
starting to recognize who I did not want to be anymore,
(02:36):
and I was starting to let go of a lot
of relationships, business relationships, the personal relationships that I had
used to define me or to as used as crutches.
Thinking that I could not, um do what I was
doing without these people, that these people kind of made
me who I was or who I am or whatever.
(02:57):
I kind of decided that or they helped me decide
because they benefited them for sure, whatever the case was,
And I just didn't know what to do because I
had this feeling that I just couldn't find the right partnership.
I couldn't find the right people to to help me
go to the next place and to continue on my
journey in a way that was even more meaningful and
(03:21):
and and more powerful. And and so I would I
just I I finally she invited me to something special,
and I thought, oh, how great would this be to
just ask her advice about this? Because that's another thing
I think we probably don't do enough. I definitely don't
often where more now I'm getting better now where to
reach out to people that may everybody can't reach out
(03:44):
to Oprah. I'm not trying to say that that we
all end. I'm surprised that I can't trust me, um,
but the but there are people in our lives that
have great experiences, and a lot of the time we
won't reach out to them because we don't want to
bother them. I looked at probably so busy, or look,
they're already dealing with all of this, man, they probably
(04:08):
how would they know? Or we feel embarrassed that we
don't know, or whatever the case. And I think for
a lot of years that maybe didn't utilize my mentorship
or the people who could give me great advice the
way to the highest capacity because I didn't want to
be intrusive, or I didn't want to seem like I
didn't know, or a lot of my life I spent
(04:29):
pretending I knew more than I actually did, which we
probably all find ourselves in one way or another. So,
you know, finally when I had the courage to kind
of speak out this this this mentor who I knew
would have some thoughts about it, it really was a
powerful awakening because she was able to share how she
herself found herself in a position of of looking to
(04:51):
other people to always kind of come up with the
big ideas or assuming they would know better than her,
and until she finally realized that, you know, nobody knows
you more than you, just they just can't. They just
don't live with you, they're not close to you, they
don't know your heart like that. They don't even have
access to those places that you have access to, So
nobody knows you better than you and I and I
(05:15):
didn't really see it like that for so long, and
I always gave so much more credit to everybody else,
which was a part of that hiding thing that I
spoke about started to happen in the beginning, and a
part of this, uh you know, idea of maybe not
accepting the greatness that's within us. I think we do
that a lot, especially as women. You know, we're very
(05:38):
powerful beings. And I think that makes that scary to
the world. It's scary to ourselves, you know, to be
so you know, creative. I mean, by the nature of us,
we create, and so to to create anything out of
any circumstance, out of nothing is it's scary. And and
to embrace that's terrifying. And I also feel like that sometimes.
(06:02):
So when she shared that with me and and really understanding,
right how who could know better than me? Nobody could
know better than me? And to start to develop that
trust with yourself and a confidence in yourself almost the beginning.
But I still it's sound. I got it in theory,
but I still can't figure out how to like really
(06:22):
make it make sense. How do you actually make that
makes sense and do that in a tactic, tactful way.
And and and it wasn't until she said, because you
know what a resounding yes feels like, And I was like, oh, actually,
I do know what a resounding is still, Like, I
(06:43):
know when a thing is like I'm so excited to
do a thing or to go to a thing or
to talk to a person or whatever, and it's like
so strong, and I'm like, uh huh, I'm doing that
for sure without a doubt. And then I know the
one that's like I think I should do it because
it's the right thing, that right. Isn't that going to
make this happen? Whatever we do that convinces us to
(07:04):
do this. I know what that feels like too, And
that's not a resounding. It So when she said you
know what it resounding, it feels like I finally got it.
The resounding yes is something that that is actually applicable.
You know. It's like it's like a tool in your
toolbox that you can come back to again and again, like, Oh,
that's what that feels like. I know what that feels like.
(07:26):
And then conversely, that means I know what it feels
like when it's not the case yes, And so I
know when it's right for me because if a resounding
yet opposed to this deliberation that we all do, is
it right? Is it not right? Is it right? Is
it not right. You know right away that they resounding yes.
So that started to give me some clarity about how
(07:48):
I could start to make some decisions and some difficult decisions,
and and to be more in control of my compass,
you know where it was leading me, as opposed to
feeling so obligated to ask if anybody else or too,
you know, ask people with more experience, figuring that they
knew better, but they don't know better than you. You
know the best for you. You're the best student of yourself.
(08:11):
M M. I love that We'll be back in a
moment with more family secrets. There's just a couple more
things I'd love to talk to you about. And um,
you go on after your your two kids, your two
boys are born, and you are convinced. I think it's
(08:33):
about your friend Erica, who's such a great friend. Um,
to go on a meditation retreat and you know, like
any mom in that situation, I've been there myself. It's
like do I go? Do I not go? I can't go.
They're not going to survive without me. What will they eat?
You know, how how can they possibly? How can I
go do this thing? But you go and you and
(08:55):
you do you take the time and the space for yourself,
and it's a Cundalini yoga retreat, and it's like you
you find a spiritual practice that really really speaks to
you and resonates with you. Um, and then you talk
about the way that that creates quiet for you, and
(09:20):
you know, to connect the whole idea of that kind
of quiet too, when you can really hear the resounding yes,
or when you can really hear your deepest inner wisdom yes,
Oh my goodness. And I was so I truly I
was so disconnected to my own intuition so many ways,
and I never even thought of taking the time to
(09:45):
pour into myself or to even you know, dedicate X
amount of minutes a day to do that. I just
didn't know what that was. I hadn't had been exposed
to meditation before in a few different ways and breathing
and things like that, but I just didn't I just
didn't know exactly what to do with it or how
to make it part of my life style. And my
(10:08):
friend Erica, you know, she really did challenge me because
she told me about this retreat and she said, and
I'm making every excuse and the baby and I can't
be away. And at the time, I was like, right
around my husbin's birthday, I think I would have had
to come home right at the you know, right on
the day of his birthday, all these things that I
was using as excuses. And she asked me, when was
(10:31):
the last time you did anything for yourself? And I
I couldn't really answer her, and that, of course kind
of pushed me two, you know, pushed me to say
I have to do it, and so would. It introduced
me to really open me up to another logical and
(10:56):
an applicable way of connecting with spirit, of connecting with
my own internal compass and with my intuition, and just
the silence that I think it takes to start to
hear yourself, which you know I didn't do well before.
I didn't. I filled up every minute, I answered every request.
(11:17):
I tried to show up for every single person and things,
and and I never had I never knew how to
take that time to be silent and quiet with myself
for myself. And it really changed everything. And it did
help me to identify more clearly the resounding yeses and
and a nose and even the ones that were like I,
(11:39):
like maybes I was like, Okay, it was not a yes,
I still a no. And that's that's it. It's really
it's really been powerful and a challenge to always keep
up um, but something that I really believe in. Yeah,
it's it's making me think too, Like just circling back
to the beginning of our conversation about the the way
(12:01):
that these lessons, over the course of a life continue
to return and return to us um maybe always, maybe forever,
or maybe until we learn them. But even when we
learn them, we're still learning them anew. And you know,
towards the very end of of your your book, there's
(12:23):
this really beautiful passage and I won't read the whole thing,
but I'll just read the very beginning, which is the
path to self discovery is not a straight line. It's
a zig zag. We move in and out of awareness.
One step forwards, three steps to the left, a baby
step back, another leap forward. A lightbulb moment might shine
brightly one day but then flicker the next. It takes
(12:44):
work to hold tightly to a certain consciousness to live
in its wisdom every day. I have to intentionally maintain
an awareness of my value. I know I'm worthy, but
you don't cross over into the land of self worth
and just become a permanent resident. You have to keep
your passport current. I love that, I mean, And that's
(13:05):
what you're that's what you're describing there, with the meditation,
with the that deliberate you know, listening for the resounding. Yes,
it's like renewing. We all need to renew our passports
every day. Otherwise they really do just kind of sit
there in the drawer and we don't we don't learn,
and we don't grow. Yeah, oh my god, so much.
(13:28):
And it's just natural because you know, these things come
to us in so many different ways and from so
many different spaces, and and and and they're meant to
elevate us, and we we want to be elevated, and
we're ready to be elevated, and and and but it's tricky,
(13:49):
and definitely it's surely you have to keep reminding yourself,
and you have to keep telling yourself that you know.
So sometimes when I feel a little bit, a little bit,
you know, something's not going quite right, or maybe my
confidence is a little shaken over a particular this or that. Um,
(14:10):
there are times that I will literally say to myself,
you deserve this. You deserve this, You deserve this, you
deserve and I'll say it a billion times just to
remind myself that I deserve it. And you know, and
that's just naturally go through these places and have these
(14:30):
feelings where we're uncertain or it's a new place and
we don't know what to do in that place, or
you know, we're more comfortable in these other spaces because
we've been there before, and and and so this reminder
and this kind of constant reaching towards your higher you.
You know, um, you don't have to feel guilty about it.
(14:53):
And I think for a long time, I felt pretty
guilty about being great. I felt pretty guilty about, um,
you know, having opportunities that the people around me. I
I didn't see them having those same opportunities. And and
I wanted us all to have the same opportunities at
the same time and reach all of our dreams at
the same time. And and you know, everybody has their
(15:15):
own journey, and you don't have to feel guilty about yours. Um.
In fact, yours will likely inspire the next person. You know,
if you can just own it and own your your
wonder and your magnificence and your light and your connection
to you know, what your purpose is. So so I
agree this. You do have to keep kind of renewing
(15:37):
that passport. You have to keep in minding, and so
you do have to make sure those lessons you learned,
you didn't um, just learn it for that moment and
forget it, which I keep myself all the time, and
I find myself doing that, you know, then remember it
again and keep on going. So I think there's I
think there's really high heights to reach that we haven't
even realized yet. And I'm really excited it and I'm
(16:00):
looking forward to continuing to reach down. We'll be right back.
I have one last question for you. UM. Yeah, as
we're speaking, you know, during this time of reckoning. On
top of reckoning, you just released the single Perfect Way
(16:21):
to Die, which is chilling and magnificent. UM. I mean chilling,
like chills up and down my body listening to it.
I'm sure I'm far from alone, UM, And I'm just wondering,
as an artist, how do you respond in the moment
(16:44):
to the moment. I think it's something that artists so
often struggle with when we're in um, you know, a
steam in history or you know, we're really living through something, right, Um? Yeah,
how do I respond to it? Or how do I
choose to respond to it? I mean, I know this
is a song that you had written and hadn't released yet,
(17:06):
and in this moment it felt like time And that
makes so much sense. Why hadn't you released it before?
You know? And and what's the feeling creatively? You know,
I'm asking asking for a friend. Um, you know, what's
(17:27):
the feeling of being someone who makes art out of
life during a time when life is trembling? Mm hmm, wow, man,
I mean, we are all definitely in a new space
in so many ways. I mean, in so many ways.
(17:48):
We're in a really really repetitive space too that we
have witnessed, or some more than others witnessed over and
over again, time and time again. And the reason why
I call it a new space is because we, I
feel find are finding ourselves face to face with um,
(18:12):
the truth in a way that I don't know if
we've ever all had to look so glaringly and so
obviously and so clearly, and so it's just right in
front of us. Um, how much we are experiencing as
the collective and how much we are awakening as the collective,
(18:32):
and how much we're recognizing the inequality and the unfairness
that surrounds us, and how much we are all outraged
and invigorated too really learn more about it, speak up
more about it, be a part of the change of it,
the current of change, and and and figure out how
(18:54):
do we do that, How do we do that with
our kids? How are we doing that with each other?
How are we having reversations with our families? How are
we you know, how are we going out into the
world and and and expressing, you know, our intolerance with
hate and and racism and and this inequity overall. And
(19:17):
and so we're all in this new space to your
point of reckoning upon reckoning, I love how you've been
saying that. And we're just in this new space of
self reflection and uncovering and recognition and eye opening and
and it's it's uncomfortable, and it's scary, and it's crazy,
and and you so many of us just wish that
we could, you know, just erase all of the the
(19:41):
evils and the and the things that have been prevalent,
you know, in this country and in the world since
the beginning. Um but I think that there is also
this feeling of unity, and there's also this feeling of
having the hard conversation. It's the difficult conversations, and that's
great films of you know, of course, there's always going
(20:04):
to be every side, but I think we and for
me as an artist, I will truly, truly try and
want to focus on the part that can uplift us,
the part that can bring us to to a similar space,
to an equal ground, and to to touch us on
a level that is just visceral, because I think that's that,
(20:27):
to your point, that is the beauty of art. That's
why I'm so honored to be an artist that that
can speak to the moment, to the time, to the emotion,
to the feeling um because that's that's the part that
erases all the language barriers and all the different things
that try to make us feel separate from each other
(20:49):
and and and somehow we are all in one place
at one time with one feeling and and our eyes
are open. So I wrote this song Perfect Way to Die,
almost two years ago, and it was it was written
based off of what was happening with Mike Brown and
to mea rights and Trademon Martin and Sandra Blend and
so many other you know, just horrible murders of black people.
(21:14):
And I I knew that it would have its time
to come, and of course it could have been right then,
but it just felt like there was I was going
to hold onto it to find the right moment. And
I actually thought, after this project, Alicia have another project
that I'm sinalizing as well musically, and I thought it
(21:35):
would be on that one. But when I, you know,
realized and looked around and just as we all are
seeing everything and being a part of it and recognizing it,
it's just it was the words of everything we're feeling
right right right now, and and I was, I was
in awe and shocked that it almost felt like these
(22:00):
songs were written a while ago. Um, the last three
songs I've put out, I feel like they've been written
a while ago, but meant for this time. And and
so I just actually have been and also in a
state of just following, following and listening the listening of
it and and going with with that. UM, and I
(22:24):
think we're all in a place of deep listening. And
I and I really do believe that we're in a
place as deep awakening. Um, there's a you know, and
I think we're all discovering. So there's so much to
fight for, and there's so much that we have to
stand up for and stand up for each other for,
and and it's never going to change we don't all
(22:46):
recognize it and stand up for each other. So I
believe that we can see that happening. And I feel
like we're on the precipice of great change. And and
I know him an optimist, and I never want to
not be an optimist because we have to be and
and not only do we have to think it and
dream it and believe it, but we have to act
on it and not ignore it and be present. And
(23:11):
I believe we're doing it. M omen. Yeah, really, what
a privilege and a gift to have this conversation with you.
I really have just loved talking with you, and I'm
so excited to share it with so many people. Me
to have been really looking forward to this one, And
I really am so grateful for you too, and thank
(23:34):
you for taking the time to get into it and
sharing your perspective of it and bringing me into your
universe as well. And I'm really, really really blessed by
this conversation, so I can't wait to talk to you again.
Thanks me to Alicia, be well, Danny, you to take
care all right m HM. For more podcasts for My
(24:11):
Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Family Secrets News
Host
Dani Shapiro
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