October 26, 2018 • 31 mins
How did Keith get away with murder for so long? It comes down to luck... and the bizarre story of a couple who tried to take credit for the crime.
Melissa G. Moore: IG @melissag.moore; Tik Tok @melissa.g.moore
Lauren Bright Pacheco: www.LaurenBrightPacheco.com
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Previously on Happy Face.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Keith H.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Jesperson forty made his admission Friday to Detective Rick Buckner
in a telephone conversation.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
In nineteen ninety five, when I heard the news about
my dad, I was dating a guy named Nick. It
was a very dysfunctional relationship. When things were good, they
were good. When things were bad, they were extremely bad.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Physical.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
There was something about your dad you wanted to tell me,
and you weren't sure what to believe in. It was
shocking and I didn't know what to think either.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
Yeah, we were as young.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I went back to my truck and rehearsed the lies
I planned to tell when I was arrested. What made
me cross the line into murder? Maybe it was my nature.
Speaker 6 (00:45):
There was a statement from the son of Julie Winningham,
the victim.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Obviously he's torn up at devastate, rightfully.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
So, and wanted my dad to be killed. I got
pregnant my freshman year, so right after found out is
when the news hit about my dad.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
So I felt like the only option for me to
break out of this was to not have a baby.
A couple months later, I got a letter from my dad.
He said he deserved to be in prison with me.
You're a killer just like me.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
The biggest spearing is that I can be like my father.
Speaker 7 (01:18):
I look like my father.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I wonder about DNA.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
And the vies in the fes with the sun. I
don't know shine.
Speaker 8 (01:31):
I was shiver.
Speaker 9 (01:35):
Oh through.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
One of the things people ask is how did Keith
get away with it for so long? And people offer
a variety of reasons. Some say he was smart or
careful in many ways. But when you look at the
case of his first victim, Tanya Bennett, he really just
got lucky for a few years, at least on Lauren
(02:13):
Dray Pacheco. This is happy Face.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
From I The Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olsen.
On a chilly winter day in Portland, Oregon, Tanya Bennett
kissed her mother goodbye and said she was off to
meet a boyfriend. She disappeared from sight in the direction
of a bus stop. Her walkman plugged into her ears.
Tanya was mildly retarded from oxygen deprivation at birth. She'd
(02:44):
been a difficult child. In a cooking class at Cleveland
High School, she assaulted a classmate in a quarrel over
a piece of cake. Addicted to alcohol, and drugs. She
hustled drinks, shot pool and got into trouble with men. Recently,
she'd complained to her mother that a man had taken
her home from the B and I tavern, beaten her
(03:04):
and quote pimped me out end quote. She said she
was afraid to go back to the same bar, but
her memory had always been short.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
When you read the Jack Olsen book or the news
articles from the time, it's apparent why Tanya Bennett was
chosen as prey. She comes across as pretty and sweet,
but also naive and troubled. What happened to her is tragic,
But what's strange about the crime is that there's so
many people who wanted to take credit for it. There's
(03:40):
a couple Laverne Pavlanak and John Zevsnofsky, who come forward
and get arrested.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
The Oregonian January seventeenth, nineteen ninety one, by Fred Leeson
Laverne A. Pavlnac is accused of four counts of agriva murder, rape,
sex abuse, kidnapping, and felony murder for the death of
Tanya A. Bennett, a twenty three year old woman whose
nude body was found last January in the Columbia Gorge,
(04:12):
Deputy District Attorney James McIntyre told a Moltnoma County Circuit
court that Pavlanak fed police anonymous tips that led to
the arrest of her longtime boyfriend John A. Sasnovsky. Then,
McIntyre said Pavlanak later told police that she had tied
and held a rope around Bennett's neck while Sisnovsky beat
the woman and sexually assaulted her.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
But Laverne and her boyfriend John weren't the only ones
trying to claim credit for this case. When they were
arrested for the Bennett murder. Keith wanted credit for his crime,
so he started sending anonymous letters to The Oregonian and
graffitiing truck stop bathrooms for attention. But the thing is,
Keith gets so many of the details wrong, and you
(04:59):
can start to wonder did he really do it? We
wanted to hear the details from Phil Stanford, the Oregon
journalist who received those letters and covered the case.
Speaker 10 (05:12):
Quote honor about January twentieth, nineteen ninety I picked up
Sonya Bennett and took her home. I raped her and
beat her real bad. Her face was all broke up.
Then I ended her life by pushing my fist into
her throat unquote.
Speaker 9 (05:30):
Right away.
Speaker 8 (05:31):
Something doesn't fit in the.
Speaker 10 (05:33):
First place, as you already know if you follow local
crime news. The name is Tanya, not Sonya Bennett, and
she was killed according to the experts who examined the
body on the night of January twenty first, not the twentieth.
But that's not the biggest problem here. The problem, if
that's the word for it, is that two people are
(05:55):
already serving time in prison for the crime.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
After her dad's arrest, Melissa started reading Phil Stamford's articles
in The Oregonian at her local library. It's how she
learned the horrific details of her dad's crimes and who
her father really was. So naturally, she had a lot
of questions for Phil about why her dad wasn't caught earlier.
Speaker 6 (06:20):
Could you tell me who these people are, these strangers,
and how they're associated with my dad's case.
Speaker 8 (06:26):
Well, the reason Laverne Pavnmak and John Sosnovski ended up
in prison for the Tanya Bennett murder is that Laverne,
who's this sixty three year old ding that was trying
to get rid of her boyfriend, who was actually much younger.
A barfly coud get out work at the sawmill every
(06:49):
day and head for the bar, and she'd have to
go pick him up at the truck stop bar and
bring him home, putting to bed and go. At least
he was working, but she wanted to get him out
of house, and she had tried before several times calling
his parole officer, tried to get him at least taken
out of the house. It didn't work. So when she
(07:10):
read the story inside of The Oregonian about how body
had been found in the gorge, she made an anonymous
call to the Sheriff's office saying she thought it was
this guy, John Saysnovski, And when that didn't work, she
made another call like that that they eventually figured out
(07:31):
who was coming from. So the Sheriff's office went out
and talked to her and she said, yeah, she was
at the bar and she heard him bragging about wasting
a woman in the gorge. And they came back the
next day with a search warrant, and she didn't have
anything more to say, but on the search warrant they
(07:51):
said they were looking for that fly that had been
cut off her jeans and her first that was missing.
Next day Laverne called in and said she had the
fly and the first she found him in.
Speaker 9 (08:04):
The trunk of John's car. So they said, oh boy.
So they came out and got them.
Speaker 8 (08:09):
Well, they analyzed them. Then they realized it wasn't the
fly from her jeans, and it wasn't her purse.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I wasn't aware of that.
Speaker 9 (08:17):
Without telling the.
Speaker 8 (08:17):
Whole story, she kept lying again and they'd find out
the next lie was wrong, and so she opped it.
And after about five visits she convinced them by saying
she had participated in the murder with John Sosnowsky. In fact,
it held the rope around her neck while t racher wow,
(08:38):
which was nonsense, and they said, thank you very much.
So she wasn't any longer a witness who might be
making up story. She was an accomplice. They charged her
and the boyfriend she was trying to get out of
the house. Of course, by the time the case came
to trial, she said, no, I was just making it up.
With the videotape they'd made of her false confession against
(09:00):
the jury, they convicted her, and when Sazanovsky saw what
was happening, He took a plea because he realized that
if he went to trial and they had already convicted Laverne,
he'd probably end up getting executed, so he pled guilty.
That's Laverne, Kadlanak, and john Sasnovsky.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
So this is all intriguing, but we wanted to know
how did the police get this so wrong? We spoke
with private investigator Chris Peterson, who worked as a detective
for the Moltnoma County Sheriff's Department at the time of
Tanya Bennett's murder. So they were already tried and found
guilty and sent to prison.
Speaker 11 (09:48):
That's correct. When I got involved, they were They had
been in prison for some time.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
What was the police reaction to the letters and the
graffiti claiming the actual killer was still at large?
Speaker 11 (10:02):
You know, I really don't have a good answer for.
Speaker 10 (10:04):
That, Detective Ingram wrote the report on the night bartender
Ann Wilson quote. Miss Wilson was asked specifically about January
twenty first, nineteen ninety and she recalled Tanya Bennett being
in the tavern at five pm when she arrived for work.
Miss Wilson said Tanya Bennett seemed to hang around with
(10:26):
two guys who were playing pool at a table at
the east end of the tavern. Unquote, Wilson described one
of the men as being about thirty years old, about six',
two with, short blonde. Hair all she could remember about
the second one is that he was somewhat. Shorter although
the detectives never did succeed in identifying the two young
(10:49):
men seen playing pool With tanya on the night of the,
murder at the, time they could have been excused for
thinking that they were on the right. Track before the
day was, over though they would have have reason to
change their.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Minds it's like a sick comedy of. ERROR i mean it's.
Speaker 9 (11:10):
Oh, yeah it's a very, dark dark.
Speaker 10 (11:12):
Comedy the, caller a, woman said she had overheard a
man In, jabs a restaurant at The Burn's brothers truck
stop In, wilsonville bragging that he had Killed Tanya. BENNETT
a week, Later february, twelfth the same woman called The
Clackamus County Sheriff's department and gave them the same information
(11:34):
as she reminded. Them the, man his, name she said
Was John, sazanovsky was on probation In Clacamus. County maybe
they could check him. Out ingram Called sasanovsky's parole, Officer Steve,
bracey and together they figured out who was probably making the.
Calls her name Was Laverne.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Pavlanak as we heard the detail of the, story there
is a little doubt that creeps In keith got the
names and dates. Wrong and As melissa, realized there's one
Detail laverne got.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Right he did come up.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
With one really critical piece of. Evidence AND i don't
know how she manufactured, this but she brought the detectives
to Where Tanya bennett's body was.
Speaker 8 (12:22):
Found how, well they drove her out to the place
along this old scenic. Highway and one of the things
that the sectors thought was so convincing was that she, said,
oh it was over. There, well they'd already marked the
place with red dye or some sort of red marker
along the.
Speaker 6 (12:41):
Highway So laverne saw the marker on the highway and
realized that's probably where the body.
Speaker 9 (12:48):
Was, yeah there's obviously a crying.
Speaker 10 (12:50):
Scene on the strength Of pavlovac's, confession which she tried
to explain away at, trial a jury convicted her to
avoid a possible death sentence for aggravated. Murder sasnovsky then
pleaded no contest to felony murder and. Rape three years,
(13:13):
Later sasnovsky has exhausted all his. Appeals padlanak's plea for
a new trial was rejected this month by The Oregon
court Of. Appeals never a high profile case to begin
with the murder Of Tanya bennett became a closed, one
and quite likely if it weren't for the anonymous letter
(13:34):
that arrived At The oregonian earlier this month from a
man claiming to have killed five women In oregon And,
california Including Tanya, bennett the case might well have remained.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Forgotten as Reporter Phil stamford told, us Had keith not
started writing the, newspaper police might never have found. Him
but to hear more about, That melissa AND i reached
(14:05):
out To jim, McNeely a retired detective from The Moltnomah
County Sheriff's.
Speaker 12 (14:09):
DEPARTMENT i got involved when we started getting the letters
sent to us from your. Dad somebody sent us some
pictures of from writing on the wall in the restroom
In montana where they said two people are in jail
for something, idea and that was followed up by a
(14:29):
letter that came to The Washington County court or, something
and they forwarded it to. Us and then another letter
came to A Phil stanford reporter in The, oregonion and
that letter goes came to. Us and then when we
followed up on the, case when your dad, came there
was a lot of talk around the department that we
(14:52):
still had the right people and whoever was writing these
letters was making this stuff. Up WHEN i got involved with,
it in my, Partner Chris, peterson we followed up on
it from.
Speaker 10 (15:06):
There in an interview this week at The Oregon State, Prison,
sisnovsky once the passive, barfly bristled with anger when asked
whether he was guilty of Killing Tanya. BENNETT i never
met the, girl he, SAID i never killed anybody in my.
Life he blames, everything he said in a rambling diatribe
(15:31):
on a conspiracy that includes The Oregon state bar The
Moltloma County District attorney's, office the detectives who investigated the,
case and of course his former Housemate Laverne. Pavlinak she framed,
me he, said.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
So then when you get this letter from my, dad
and he, SAID i Killed Tanya.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Bennett did you instantly believe this letter was? True what
did you think about this?
Speaker 8 (16:03):
Letter, well there was something very believable about. It he
knew what he was talking, about and he had information
on those murders that hadn't been in the papers down
wherever the bodies were. Found so there was something to.
It and it was a matter that of going back
and analyzing The Tanya bennett, case the, investigation and WHAT
(16:25):
i contributed really was sort of a deconstruction of the,
case showing that they'd manufactured the, case they'd manufactured the.
Speaker 6 (16:33):
Confession so when you got that, letter that was one,
letter but you ultimately received more.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Letters is that?
Speaker 5 (16:42):
Correct?
Speaker 8 (16:43):
Yeah after he was, captured we, corresponded, okay we were
trying together to prove that THE da was wrong and
he was guilty of The Tanya bennett.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Murder which is interesting that he's trying to prove his.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Guilt he wanted.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Credit.
Speaker 9 (17:01):
Yeah, yeah did.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
You ever meet my dad in? Person?
Speaker 9 (17:08):
Oh, yeah after he was.
Speaker 8 (17:10):
ARRESTED i talked to him in The Clark county jail
and they just let him. Out there was a big
folding picnic, table and HERE i was sitting across from
this hawking. GUY i mean he's very, BIG i guess six'
seven something, like that and talking to him About The tanya.
Bennett murder and as the conversation, quickly developed how we
(17:35):
were going to prove that he was guilty Of The tanya?
Speaker 9 (17:38):
Bennett murder.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
What was he saying?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
To You he.
Speaker 8 (17:46):
I'm not sure to this day how to read him at.
That point at, THE time i thought he was sort
of unburdening his soul if he wanted. To confess another
way of looking at out of, the course would be
that he wanted to get credit, for this and it
was his way of sort of proving that he was establishing.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
This identity did he come across as wanting, Your, help.
Speaker 8 (18:12):
Well he wanted, my help and OF course i. Wanted his,
you KNOW what i needed was some way to prove
that he was telling.
Speaker 9 (18:21):
The Truth About. Tanya bennett and.
Speaker 8 (18:23):
So he offered two ways of. Proving it one was
that when he, told her he said blood was everywhere
and even splattered on.
Speaker 9 (18:32):
The ceiling oh.
Speaker 6 (18:34):
MY gosh i actually stayed in the House Where tanya bennett,
was murdered and there was a NIGHT that i went
and slept in the living room on, the COUCH and
i remember looking up at the ceiling and seeing splatter on,
the ceiling thinking it was, spaghetti sauce and just staring
(18:54):
at IT as i was trying to go, To sleep
and when you just, SAID that i WONDER if i
was looking.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
At blood oh.
Speaker 10 (19:02):
My.
Speaker 8 (19:03):
Yeah YEAH so i.
Speaker 9 (19:12):
Went back to.
Speaker 8 (19:12):
The house it had been bought, and sold and they
had the new owners had painted, that room, the bedroom including.
THE ceiling i went TO the da with THAT and,
i said you could scrape the paint off and DO a,
dna analysis and, he, said no we don't want to.
Do that the other thing, he said the key said
was after he Dropped off tanya's body in, the gorge,
(19:37):
driving back he threw her purse out at a certain
place and he remembered where it was as. A field and,
in fact that is eventually how it was proved to the,
DA's satisfaction to the, court satisfaction that he was telling
the truth and that He Killed, tanya bennett because one
(19:58):
of the sheriff's deputies, m McNelly who's really the hero,
in this took a troop of boy scouts out to
that field and for two or three days cut away
the BlackBerry bushes that had grown. UP there i mean
they grow Fast in oregon and four. Years, Growth yeah
i've been.
Speaker 9 (20:16):
Up there it, gets dense and they found the purse.
Speaker 7 (20:19):
WITH her i.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
D Wow.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
So jessperson kind of saw you as a partner.
Speaker 9 (20:42):
In, this yeah it was. Very strange we were.
Speaker 8 (20:45):
Conspiring together here we were as working for a newspaper
and he was trying to confess to. A murder we
both knew that two people were in prison for a crime,
he committed but, the Authorities the sheriff's department and the
DA's office certainly weren't going to admit they'd made a mistake,
(21:08):
like that and basically but developed as that we were
conspiring to prove that he.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Was guilty now you have to remember This is phil's
opinion on the way the investigation. Was handled the police
have their.
Speaker 7 (21:27):
OWN story i got word from a friend of mine
At the sheriff's office that the detective.
Speaker 8 (21:37):
Could been the leader in getting the false Confession From
laverne pablomak In The tiny.
Speaker 9 (21:43):
Bennic case had.
Speaker 8 (21:44):
Been down in the state prison Talking, to jesperson encouraging
him to SAY that i had given him the information
that he had given to the police to prove that
He Killed. Tiny bennett in, other words it's trying To
get jefferson to, frame me and to his, eternal credit
(22:07):
as Far as, i'm concerned he did not lie. About
it he, said no it, didn't happen and it would
have been very easy for him, to lie and, after
all it wouldn't hurt him, at all and he might
have even been able to bargain it into extra privileges
for helping out. This detective but, he DIDN'T and i
(22:27):
have TO say i honor him.
Speaker 11 (22:29):
For that.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Keith's code of honor is more than a bit. Twisted
here he wouldn't tolerate, dishonest cops thought himself, above them
and yet he was a brutal rapist. And murderer.
Speaker 6 (22:48):
So when my dad was ultimately Convicted For tanya, bennett's
murder what Happened to John?
Speaker 9 (22:55):
And, laverne well they, were released, Of course.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
And how much time did they serve in prison before they.
Speaker 7 (23:03):
WERE released i think about a couple.
Speaker 10 (23:06):
Of.
Speaker 8 (23:06):
Years WOW and i don't know Anything about LaVerne's experience,
in prison but it was particularly Hard, On, john saysnovsky
who was not a very strong person to. BEGIN with
i mean he was, an alcoholic and he was he
sort of. Lost it they put him in a room
(23:28):
in prison for the people who were. Mentally disturbed it's Called.
The thunderdome what? A?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Thunderdome why what happens in?
Speaker 8 (23:38):
The thunderdome it was a big holding tank with a
guard sort of suspended in the middle on. A grate
AND what i remember about the story Is that saysnovsky would.
Just howl here he was locked up for life for
something he had pled. Guilty to but even at the
(24:00):
time he, pled guilty he knew he was not guilty
up it was.
Speaker 9 (24:04):
Completely.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Innocent though that would drive. Me, crazy yeah that would drive.
ME crazy i. Yeah that what else could you do?
Speaker 10 (24:12):
But?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Scream? Oh yeah did you ever Talk to Laverne? Or
john do you think that they? REGRETTED this.
Speaker 9 (24:21):
I Talked, with LAVERNE and.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
I don't think She really i'm sure she, regretted It
but i'm not convinced she ever really understood how how
wrong what she. Did was she was emotionally. DULLED herself,
i mean she was taking a lot, of pills fantasized,
(24:45):
a lot read a lot of cheap, detective stories which
is probably how she got the idea that she could
turn someone in for a murder and it would just all.
Speaker 9 (24:56):
Go away.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
MELISSA and i, were, curious though How did John and
laverne react to. Being Freed Here's Detective chris, Peterson Again.
Speaker 11 (25:09):
John SISTOVSKY when i went down to interview him in
the prison with the prosecutor, a prosecutor he. Was incoherent he.
Was babbling it was actually a little. Bit scary verne
acted like a grandmother when we were working. WITH her,
i mean she was, pretty, calm collected and she did
(25:33):
her very best to convince me that she wasn't responsible for,
the murder which. WAS true i think we had her take.
A polygraph i don't think We had sisnovsky take a
polygraph because of his, metal state but.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
It sounds like he was another One of jefferson's.
Speaker 7 (25:49):
Victims Indirectly john sisowsky was definitely a Victim of Jefferson.
Speaker 11 (25:56):
AND laverne, i mean, those People, particularly laverne had no
place in. An institution she created a space and institution
for herself by confessing on, a TAPE and i was
played to a jury and they. Convicted her but he
victimized those two and as well as a lot of
victims that. Didn't survive did she ever? Thank you she
(26:19):
was very unappreciative of our efforts to get. Her out
the family never really spoke.
Speaker 9 (26:25):
To us they.
Speaker 11 (26:27):
WERE critical i think of, the POLICE and i think
the district attorney's Office a, momma mccanti and the sheriff's
Office in portland did a great job in terms of
getting to the bottom of, this case and even a
mistake had, been made and the district attorney and the
sheriff both told me that we don't want you doing
anything else until this matter gets resolved to. Our satisfaction
(26:50):
and Just.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Because i'm Curious with Laverne, and john were they immediately
released after my dad was sentenced?
Speaker 8 (26:56):
That, day, no no.
Speaker 11 (26:57):
They weren't post conviction rey was a very complicated legal
procedure and there is really no remedy for reversing a
jury's decision in the State. Of oregon if a jury
finds you guilty, of homicide it's kind of chipped. In
stone so they were not. Released immediately it took a
(27:19):
while to get them out. Of prison it wasn't like
your dad gets convicted and the door. Is open my
understanding Is That, John sissovsky I'm assuming john's, still alive
still has a MURDER conviction iic record because post, conviction
relief meaning changing a verdict's opinion of, a jury is
very difficult to do in the State of oregon and.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Most states that's how Horrible for john that he would
have this still potentially on, his record even though he was.
Completely innocent that must have impacted, his employment his life.
After this that's, really, surprising though you know that it
would be.
Speaker 11 (27:53):
Like, that yeah, it is but that was the state
of the law twenty five, years AGO and i don't
know that SHAME.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
From I the creation of A serial Killer By jack
olsen in jail awaiting transport to the, state penitentiary he
continued to play the lead role in his own. Dramatic
production on the Day That john Sasnovski And laverne pavlanac
were freed, for good he described his reaction To The associated,
PRESS quote i. STARTED crying i couldn't help myself for about.
(28:31):
TEN minutes i lost. TOTAL composure i was just. Very,
overjoyed basically my Feeling is god. Blessed them. End quote
he didn't explain why he'd allowed them to serve four
years for. His Crimes.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
So, don fendley who is the Son of jessperson's last,
Known Victim, julianne winningham he has a lot of Anger,
towards laverne who is, now deceased but he believes that
if she, hadn't lied if she hadn't tried To, frame
john that there is a Chance that jessperson could have
(29:15):
been stopped before he murdered seven, more women including his.
Speaker 11 (29:20):
OWN mother, I mean i understand, his concern and of
course he didn't murder anybody after He murdered julie because he.
Was arrested but, YOU know i don't want to speculate
(29:41):
that that this thing would have been solved, any earlier
but it's hard to. FOR me i can't say that
if it had Meant from Laverne that keith would have,
been arrested because he was not on. Anybody's Radar in
molma mccunny over The, tiny.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Benicades there's always been One person melissa has been afraid,
to meet the Son of jesper since, Last Victim.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Don findley i'm terrified that he's going to lash out
on me and blame me.
Speaker 11 (30:22):
For his.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
MOM'S murderer.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
I texted him, for weeks and when he finally returned,
my text he didn't want to meet you. In person
he had a lot, of anger, you know from his point,
of view you're the daughter of the man who murdered.
His mother but we spoke for a couple of HOURS
and i was finally able to convince him to.
Speaker 10 (30:51):
Meet You.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Happy face is a Production Of How. Stuff works executive
Producers Are, Melissa Moore, Lauren, Bright Pacheco, mangesha Ticketer And.
Will pearson supervising Producer Is. Noel brown Music By, Claire
Campbell paige Campbell and hope For A. Golden summer story
Editor Is. Matt riddle audio Editing By chandler Mays And.
Noel brown assistant Editor Is. Taylor chacoyne special Thanks To,
(31:24):
phil stanford the Publishers Of The oregonian NEWSPAPER And katu News, In.
Portland oregon
Previously on Happy Face.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Keith H.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Jesperson forty made his admission Friday to Detective Rick Buckner
in a telephone conversation.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
In nineteen ninety five, when I heard the news about
my dad, I was dating a guy named Nick. It
was a very dysfunctional relationship. When things were good, they
were good. When things were bad, they were extremely bad.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Physical.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
There was something about your dad you wanted to tell me,
and you weren't sure what to believe in. It was
shocking and I didn't know what to think either.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
Yeah, we were as young.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I went back to my truck and rehearsed the lies
I planned to tell when I was arrested. What made
me cross the line into murder? Maybe it was my nature.
Speaker 6 (00:45):
There was a statement from the son of Julie Winningham,
the victim.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Obviously he's torn up at devastate, rightfully.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
So, and wanted my dad to be killed. I got
pregnant my freshman year, so right after found out is
when the news hit about my dad.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
So I felt like the only option for me to
break out of this was to not have a baby.
A couple months later, I got a letter from my dad.
He said he deserved to be in prison with me.
You're a killer just like me.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
The biggest spearing is that I can be like my father.
Speaker 7 (01:18):
I look like my father.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I wonder about DNA.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
And the vies in the fes with the sun. I
don't know shine.
Speaker 8 (01:31):
I was shiver.
Speaker 9 (01:35):
Oh through.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
One of the things people ask is how did Keith
get away with it for so long? And people offer
a variety of reasons. Some say he was smart or
careful in many ways. But when you look at the
case of his first victim, Tanya Bennett, he really just
got lucky for a few years, at least on Lauren
(02:13):
Dray Pacheco. This is happy Face.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
From I The Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olsen.
On a chilly winter day in Portland, Oregon, Tanya Bennett
kissed her mother goodbye and said she was off to
meet a boyfriend. She disappeared from sight in the direction
of a bus stop. Her walkman plugged into her ears.
Tanya was mildly retarded from oxygen deprivation at birth. She'd
(02:44):
been a difficult child. In a cooking class at Cleveland
High School, she assaulted a classmate in a quarrel over
a piece of cake. Addicted to alcohol, and drugs. She
hustled drinks, shot pool and got into trouble with men. Recently,
she'd complained to her mother that a man had taken
her home from the B and I tavern, beaten her
(03:04):
and quote pimped me out end quote. She said she
was afraid to go back to the same bar, but
her memory had always been short.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
When you read the Jack Olsen book or the news
articles from the time, it's apparent why Tanya Bennett was
chosen as prey. She comes across as pretty and sweet,
but also naive and troubled. What happened to her is tragic,
But what's strange about the crime is that there's so
many people who wanted to take credit for it. There's
(03:40):
a couple Laverne Pavlanak and John Zevsnofsky, who come forward
and get arrested.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
The Oregonian January seventeenth, nineteen ninety one, by Fred Leeson
Laverne A. Pavlnac is accused of four counts of agriva murder, rape,
sex abuse, kidnapping, and felony murder for the death of
Tanya A. Bennett, a twenty three year old woman whose
nude body was found last January in the Columbia Gorge,
(04:12):
Deputy District Attorney James McIntyre told a Moltnoma County Circuit
court that Pavlanak fed police anonymous tips that led to
the arrest of her longtime boyfriend John A. Sasnovsky. Then,
McIntyre said Pavlanak later told police that she had tied
and held a rope around Bennett's neck while Sisnovsky beat
the woman and sexually assaulted her.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
But Laverne and her boyfriend John weren't the only ones
trying to claim credit for this case. When they were
arrested for the Bennett murder. Keith wanted credit for his crime,
so he started sending anonymous letters to The Oregonian and
graffitiing truck stop bathrooms for attention. But the thing is,
Keith gets so many of the details wrong, and you
(04:59):
can start to wonder did he really do it? We
wanted to hear the details from Phil Stanford, the Oregon
journalist who received those letters and covered the case.
Speaker 10 (05:12):
Quote honor about January twentieth, nineteen ninety I picked up
Sonya Bennett and took her home. I raped her and
beat her real bad. Her face was all broke up.
Then I ended her life by pushing my fist into
her throat unquote.
Speaker 9 (05:30):
Right away.
Speaker 8 (05:31):
Something doesn't fit in the.
Speaker 10 (05:33):
First place, as you already know if you follow local
crime news. The name is Tanya, not Sonya Bennett, and
she was killed according to the experts who examined the
body on the night of January twenty first, not the twentieth.
But that's not the biggest problem here. The problem, if
that's the word for it, is that two people are
(05:55):
already serving time in prison for the crime.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
After her dad's arrest, Melissa started reading Phil Stamford's articles
in The Oregonian at her local library. It's how she
learned the horrific details of her dad's crimes and who
her father really was. So naturally, she had a lot
of questions for Phil about why her dad wasn't caught earlier.
Speaker 6 (06:20):
Could you tell me who these people are, these strangers,
and how they're associated with my dad's case.
Speaker 8 (06:26):
Well, the reason Laverne Pavnmak and John Sosnovski ended up
in prison for the Tanya Bennett murder is that Laverne,
who's this sixty three year old ding that was trying
to get rid of her boyfriend, who was actually much younger.
A barfly coud get out work at the sawmill every
(06:49):
day and head for the bar, and she'd have to
go pick him up at the truck stop bar and
bring him home, putting to bed and go. At least
he was working, but she wanted to get him out
of house, and she had tried before several times calling
his parole officer, tried to get him at least taken
out of the house. It didn't work. So when she
(07:10):
read the story inside of The Oregonian about how body
had been found in the gorge, she made an anonymous
call to the Sheriff's office saying she thought it was
this guy, John Saysnovski, And when that didn't work, she
made another call like that that they eventually figured out
(07:31):
who was coming from. So the Sheriff's office went out
and talked to her and she said, yeah, she was
at the bar and she heard him bragging about wasting
a woman in the gorge. And they came back the
next day with a search warrant, and she didn't have
anything more to say, but on the search warrant they
(07:51):
said they were looking for that fly that had been
cut off her jeans and her first that was missing.
Next day Laverne called in and said she had the
fly and the first she found him in.
Speaker 9 (08:04):
The trunk of John's car. So they said, oh boy.
So they came out and got them.
Speaker 8 (08:09):
Well, they analyzed them. Then they realized it wasn't the
fly from her jeans, and it wasn't her purse.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I wasn't aware of that.
Speaker 9 (08:17):
Without telling the.
Speaker 8 (08:17):
Whole story, she kept lying again and they'd find out
the next lie was wrong, and so she opped it.
And after about five visits she convinced them by saying
she had participated in the murder with John Sosnowsky. In fact,
it held the rope around her neck while t racher wow,
(08:38):
which was nonsense, and they said, thank you very much.
So she wasn't any longer a witness who might be
making up story. She was an accomplice. They charged her
and the boyfriend she was trying to get out of
the house. Of course, by the time the case came
to trial, she said, no, I was just making it up.
With the videotape they'd made of her false confession against
(09:00):
the jury, they convicted her, and when Sazanovsky saw what
was happening, He took a plea because he realized that
if he went to trial and they had already convicted Laverne,
he'd probably end up getting executed, so he pled guilty.
That's Laverne, Kadlanak, and john Sasnovsky.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
So this is all intriguing, but we wanted to know
how did the police get this so wrong? We spoke
with private investigator Chris Peterson, who worked as a detective
for the Moltnoma County Sheriff's Department at the time of
Tanya Bennett's murder. So they were already tried and found
guilty and sent to prison.
Speaker 11 (09:48):
That's correct. When I got involved, they were They had
been in prison for some time.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
What was the police reaction to the letters and the
graffiti claiming the actual killer was still at large?
Speaker 11 (10:02):
You know, I really don't have a good answer for.
Speaker 10 (10:04):
That, Detective Ingram wrote the report on the night bartender
Ann Wilson quote. Miss Wilson was asked specifically about January
twenty first, nineteen ninety and she recalled Tanya Bennett being
in the tavern at five pm when she arrived for work.
Miss Wilson said Tanya Bennett seemed to hang around with
(10:26):
two guys who were playing pool at a table at
the east end of the tavern. Unquote, Wilson described one
of the men as being about thirty years old, about six',
two with, short blonde. Hair all she could remember about
the second one is that he was somewhat. Shorter although
the detectives never did succeed in identifying the two young
(10:49):
men seen playing pool With tanya on the night of the,
murder at the, time they could have been excused for
thinking that they were on the right. Track before the
day was, over though they would have have reason to
change their.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Minds it's like a sick comedy of. ERROR i mean it's.
Speaker 9 (11:10):
Oh, yeah it's a very, dark dark.
Speaker 10 (11:12):
Comedy the, caller a, woman said she had overheard a
man In, jabs a restaurant at The Burn's brothers truck
stop In, wilsonville bragging that he had Killed Tanya. BENNETT
a week, Later february, twelfth the same woman called The
Clackamus County Sheriff's department and gave them the same information
(11:34):
as she reminded. Them the, man his, name she said
Was John, sazanovsky was on probation In Clacamus. County maybe
they could check him. Out ingram Called sasanovsky's parole, Officer Steve,
bracey and together they figured out who was probably making the.
Calls her name Was Laverne.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Pavlanak as we heard the detail of the, story there
is a little doubt that creeps In keith got the
names and dates. Wrong and As melissa, realized there's one
Detail laverne got.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Right he did come up.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
With one really critical piece of. Evidence AND i don't
know how she manufactured, this but she brought the detectives
to Where Tanya bennett's body was.
Speaker 8 (12:22):
Found how, well they drove her out to the place
along this old scenic. Highway and one of the things
that the sectors thought was so convincing was that she, said,
oh it was over. There, well they'd already marked the
place with red dye or some sort of red marker
along the.
Speaker 6 (12:41):
Highway So laverne saw the marker on the highway and
realized that's probably where the body.
Speaker 9 (12:48):
Was, yeah there's obviously a crying.
Speaker 10 (12:50):
Scene on the strength Of pavlovac's, confession which she tried
to explain away at, trial a jury convicted her to
avoid a possible death sentence for aggravated. Murder sasnovsky then
pleaded no contest to felony murder and. Rape three years,
(13:13):
Later sasnovsky has exhausted all his. Appeals padlanak's plea for
a new trial was rejected this month by The Oregon
court Of. Appeals never a high profile case to begin
with the murder Of Tanya bennett became a closed, one
and quite likely if it weren't for the anonymous letter
(13:34):
that arrived At The oregonian earlier this month from a
man claiming to have killed five women In oregon And,
california Including Tanya, bennett the case might well have remained.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Forgotten as Reporter Phil stamford told, us Had keith not
started writing the, newspaper police might never have found. Him
but to hear more about, That melissa AND i reached
(14:05):
out To jim, McNeely a retired detective from The Moltnomah
County Sheriff's.
Speaker 12 (14:09):
DEPARTMENT i got involved when we started getting the letters
sent to us from your. Dad somebody sent us some
pictures of from writing on the wall in the restroom
In montana where they said two people are in jail
for something, idea and that was followed up by a
(14:29):
letter that came to The Washington County court or, something
and they forwarded it to. Us and then another letter
came to A Phil stanford reporter in The, oregonion and
that letter goes came to. Us and then when we
followed up on the, case when your dad, came there
was a lot of talk around the department that we
(14:52):
still had the right people and whoever was writing these
letters was making this stuff. Up WHEN i got involved with,
it in my, Partner Chris, peterson we followed up on
it from.
Speaker 10 (15:06):
There in an interview this week at The Oregon State, Prison,
sisnovsky once the passive, barfly bristled with anger when asked
whether he was guilty of Killing Tanya. BENNETT i never
met the, girl he, SAID i never killed anybody in my.
Life he blames, everything he said in a rambling diatribe
(15:31):
on a conspiracy that includes The Oregon state bar The
Moltloma County District attorney's, office the detectives who investigated the,
case and of course his former Housemate Laverne. Pavlinak she framed,
me he, said.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
So then when you get this letter from my, dad
and he, SAID i Killed Tanya.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Bennett did you instantly believe this letter was? True what
did you think about this?
Speaker 8 (16:03):
Letter, well there was something very believable about. It he
knew what he was talking, about and he had information
on those murders that hadn't been in the papers down
wherever the bodies were. Found so there was something to.
It and it was a matter that of going back
and analyzing The Tanya bennett, case the, investigation and WHAT
(16:25):
i contributed really was sort of a deconstruction of the,
case showing that they'd manufactured the, case they'd manufactured the.
Speaker 6 (16:33):
Confession so when you got that, letter that was one,
letter but you ultimately received more.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Letters is that?
Speaker 5 (16:42):
Correct?
Speaker 8 (16:43):
Yeah after he was, captured we, corresponded, okay we were
trying together to prove that THE da was wrong and
he was guilty of The Tanya bennett.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Murder which is interesting that he's trying to prove his.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Guilt he wanted.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Credit.
Speaker 9 (17:01):
Yeah, yeah did.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
You ever meet my dad in? Person?
Speaker 9 (17:08):
Oh, yeah after he was.
Speaker 8 (17:10):
ARRESTED i talked to him in The Clark county jail
and they just let him. Out there was a big
folding picnic, table and HERE i was sitting across from
this hawking. GUY i mean he's very, BIG i guess six'
seven something, like that and talking to him About The tanya.
Bennett murder and as the conversation, quickly developed how we
(17:35):
were going to prove that he was guilty Of The tanya?
Speaker 9 (17:38):
Bennett murder.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
What was he saying?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
To You he.
Speaker 8 (17:46):
I'm not sure to this day how to read him at.
That point at, THE time i thought he was sort
of unburdening his soul if he wanted. To confess another
way of looking at out of, the course would be
that he wanted to get credit, for this and it
was his way of sort of proving that he was establishing.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
This identity did he come across as wanting, Your, help.
Speaker 8 (18:12):
Well he wanted, my help and OF course i. Wanted his,
you KNOW what i needed was some way to prove
that he was telling.
Speaker 9 (18:21):
The Truth About. Tanya bennett and.
Speaker 8 (18:23):
So he offered two ways of. Proving it one was
that when he, told her he said blood was everywhere
and even splattered on.
Speaker 9 (18:32):
The ceiling oh.
Speaker 6 (18:34):
MY gosh i actually stayed in the House Where tanya bennett,
was murdered and there was a NIGHT that i went
and slept in the living room on, the COUCH and
i remember looking up at the ceiling and seeing splatter on,
the ceiling thinking it was, spaghetti sauce and just staring
(18:54):
at IT as i was trying to go, To sleep
and when you just, SAID that i WONDER if i
was looking.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
At blood oh.
Speaker 10 (19:02):
My.
Speaker 8 (19:03):
Yeah YEAH so i.
Speaker 9 (19:12):
Went back to.
Speaker 8 (19:12):
The house it had been bought, and sold and they
had the new owners had painted, that room, the bedroom including.
THE ceiling i went TO the da with THAT and,
i said you could scrape the paint off and DO a,
dna analysis and, he, said no we don't want to.
Do that the other thing, he said the key said
was after he Dropped off tanya's body in, the gorge,
(19:37):
driving back he threw her purse out at a certain
place and he remembered where it was as. A field and,
in fact that is eventually how it was proved to the,
DA's satisfaction to the, court satisfaction that he was telling
the truth and that He Killed, tanya bennett because one
(19:58):
of the sheriff's deputies, m McNelly who's really the hero,
in this took a troop of boy scouts out to
that field and for two or three days cut away
the BlackBerry bushes that had grown. UP there i mean
they grow Fast in oregon and four. Years, Growth yeah
i've been.
Speaker 9 (20:16):
Up there it, gets dense and they found the purse.
Speaker 7 (20:19):
WITH her i.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
D Wow.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
So jessperson kind of saw you as a partner.
Speaker 9 (20:42):
In, this yeah it was. Very strange we were.
Speaker 8 (20:45):
Conspiring together here we were as working for a newspaper
and he was trying to confess to. A murder we
both knew that two people were in prison for a crime,
he committed but, the Authorities the sheriff's department and the
DA's office certainly weren't going to admit they'd made a mistake,
(21:08):
like that and basically but developed as that we were
conspiring to prove that he.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Was guilty now you have to remember This is phil's
opinion on the way the investigation. Was handled the police
have their.
Speaker 7 (21:27):
OWN story i got word from a friend of mine
At the sheriff's office that the detective.
Speaker 8 (21:37):
Could been the leader in getting the false Confession From
laverne pablomak In The tiny.
Speaker 9 (21:43):
Bennic case had.
Speaker 8 (21:44):
Been down in the state prison Talking, to jesperson encouraging
him to SAY that i had given him the information
that he had given to the police to prove that
He Killed. Tiny bennett in, other words it's trying To
get jefferson to, frame me and to his, eternal credit
(22:07):
as Far as, i'm concerned he did not lie. About
it he, said no it, didn't happen and it would
have been very easy for him, to lie and, after
all it wouldn't hurt him, at all and he might
have even been able to bargain it into extra privileges
for helping out. This detective but, he DIDN'T and i
(22:27):
have TO say i honor him.
Speaker 11 (22:29):
For that.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Keith's code of honor is more than a bit. Twisted
here he wouldn't tolerate, dishonest cops thought himself, above them
and yet he was a brutal rapist. And murderer.
Speaker 6 (22:48):
So when my dad was ultimately Convicted For tanya, bennett's
murder what Happened to John?
Speaker 9 (22:55):
And, laverne well they, were released, Of course.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
And how much time did they serve in prison before they.
Speaker 7 (23:03):
WERE released i think about a couple.
Speaker 10 (23:06):
Of.
Speaker 8 (23:06):
Years WOW and i don't know Anything about LaVerne's experience,
in prison but it was particularly Hard, On, john saysnovsky
who was not a very strong person to. BEGIN with
i mean he was, an alcoholic and he was he
sort of. Lost it they put him in a room
(23:28):
in prison for the people who were. Mentally disturbed it's Called.
The thunderdome what? A?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Thunderdome why what happens in?
Speaker 8 (23:38):
The thunderdome it was a big holding tank with a
guard sort of suspended in the middle on. A grate
AND what i remember about the story Is that saysnovsky would.
Just howl here he was locked up for life for
something he had pled. Guilty to but even at the
(24:00):
time he, pled guilty he knew he was not guilty
up it was.
Speaker 9 (24:04):
Completely.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Innocent though that would drive. Me, crazy yeah that would drive.
ME crazy i. Yeah that what else could you do?
Speaker 10 (24:12):
But?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Scream? Oh yeah did you ever Talk to Laverne? Or
john do you think that they? REGRETTED this.
Speaker 9 (24:21):
I Talked, with LAVERNE and.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
I don't think She really i'm sure she, regretted It
but i'm not convinced she ever really understood how how
wrong what she. Did was she was emotionally. DULLED herself,
i mean she was taking a lot, of pills fantasized,
(24:45):
a lot read a lot of cheap, detective stories which
is probably how she got the idea that she could
turn someone in for a murder and it would just all.
Speaker 9 (24:56):
Go away.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
MELISSA and i, were, curious though How did John and
laverne react to. Being Freed Here's Detective chris, Peterson Again.
Speaker 11 (25:09):
John SISTOVSKY when i went down to interview him in
the prison with the prosecutor, a prosecutor he. Was incoherent he.
Was babbling it was actually a little. Bit scary verne
acted like a grandmother when we were working. WITH her,
i mean she was, pretty, calm collected and she did
(25:33):
her very best to convince me that she wasn't responsible for,
the murder which. WAS true i think we had her take.
A polygraph i don't think We had sisnovsky take a
polygraph because of his, metal state but.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
It sounds like he was another One of jefferson's.
Speaker 7 (25:49):
Victims Indirectly john sisowsky was definitely a Victim of Jefferson.
Speaker 11 (25:56):
AND laverne, i mean, those People, particularly laverne had no
place in. An institution she created a space and institution
for herself by confessing on, a TAPE and i was
played to a jury and they. Convicted her but he
victimized those two and as well as a lot of
victims that. Didn't survive did she ever? Thank you she
(26:19):
was very unappreciative of our efforts to get. Her out
the family never really spoke.
Speaker 9 (26:25):
To us they.
Speaker 11 (26:27):
WERE critical i think of, the POLICE and i think
the district attorney's Office a, momma mccanti and the sheriff's
Office in portland did a great job in terms of
getting to the bottom of, this case and even a
mistake had, been made and the district attorney and the
sheriff both told me that we don't want you doing
anything else until this matter gets resolved to. Our satisfaction
(26:50):
and Just.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Because i'm Curious with Laverne, and john were they immediately
released after my dad was sentenced?
Speaker 8 (26:56):
That, day, no no.
Speaker 11 (26:57):
They weren't post conviction rey was a very complicated legal
procedure and there is really no remedy for reversing a
jury's decision in the State. Of oregon if a jury
finds you guilty, of homicide it's kind of chipped. In
stone so they were not. Released immediately it took a
(27:19):
while to get them out. Of prison it wasn't like
your dad gets convicted and the door. Is open my
understanding Is That, John sissovsky I'm assuming john's, still alive
still has a MURDER conviction iic record because post, conviction
relief meaning changing a verdict's opinion of, a jury is
very difficult to do in the State of oregon and.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Most states that's how Horrible for john that he would
have this still potentially on, his record even though he was.
Completely innocent that must have impacted, his employment his life.
After this that's, really, surprising though you know that it
would be.
Speaker 11 (27:53):
Like, that yeah, it is but that was the state
of the law twenty five, years AGO and i don't
know that SHAME.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
From I the creation of A serial Killer By jack
olsen in jail awaiting transport to the, state penitentiary he
continued to play the lead role in his own. Dramatic
production on the Day That john Sasnovski And laverne pavlanac
were freed, for good he described his reaction To The associated,
PRESS quote i. STARTED crying i couldn't help myself for about.
(28:31):
TEN minutes i lost. TOTAL composure i was just. Very,
overjoyed basically my Feeling is god. Blessed them. End quote
he didn't explain why he'd allowed them to serve four
years for. His Crimes.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
So, don fendley who is the Son of jessperson's last,
Known Victim, julianne winningham he has a lot of Anger,
towards laverne who is, now deceased but he believes that
if she, hadn't lied if she hadn't tried To, frame
john that there is a Chance that jessperson could have
(29:15):
been stopped before he murdered seven, more women including his.
Speaker 11 (29:20):
OWN mother, I mean i understand, his concern and of
course he didn't murder anybody after He murdered julie because he.
Was arrested but, YOU know i don't want to speculate
(29:41):
that that this thing would have been solved, any earlier
but it's hard to. FOR me i can't say that
if it had Meant from Laverne that keith would have,
been arrested because he was not on. Anybody's Radar in
molma mccunny over The, tiny.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Benicades there's always been One person melissa has been afraid,
to meet the Son of jesper since, Last Victim.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Don findley i'm terrified that he's going to lash out
on me and blame me.
Speaker 11 (30:22):
For his.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
MOM'S murderer.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
I texted him, for weeks and when he finally returned,
my text he didn't want to meet you. In person
he had a lot, of anger, you know from his point,
of view you're the daughter of the man who murdered.
His mother but we spoke for a couple of HOURS
and i was finally able to convince him to.
Speaker 10 (30:51):
Meet You.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Happy face is a Production Of How. Stuff works executive
Producers Are, Melissa Moore, Lauren, Bright Pacheco, mangesha Ticketer And.
Will pearson supervising Producer Is. Noel brown Music By, Claire
Campbell paige Campbell and hope For A. Golden summer story
Editor Is. Matt riddle audio Editing By chandler Mays And.
Noel brown assistant Editor Is. Taylor chacoyne special Thanks To,
(31:24):
phil stanford the Publishers Of The oregonian NEWSPAPER And katu News, In.
Portland oregon
Happy Face News
Hosts And Creators
Melissa Moore
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Show Links
AboutPopular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.