August 28, 2023 • 27 mins
Andrew and Mia discuss the conditions that produced the anarchist movement in late 1800's Egypt and how it spread among Egypt's diverse working class
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcomes it could happen here.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I am Andrew of the future channal Andrewism, and I'm
here with O.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Wait without the Q. Oh no, yeah, it's ties me
me along. I'm also here at apparently missing Ques instantly.
I don't know. It is barbarically early for me, So.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yay, bobarically What time is it?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Ten o'clock?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Well, come on, come on, come on, come on.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Look, it would have been fine if it wasn't up
till three am last night dealing with a session of
minor crises.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Down that's unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, it's all right.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Otherwise, if it wasn't a crisis, I would have like
flexed my early bood supremacy. But you know, I have
enough since like seven sixthy I'd say something that job.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Now, But I just didn't want to do a ling
with this one.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
And yeah, So today I wanted to shed light on
some really interesting history. I think of the anarchist movement
in Egypt. I've readen this book called Anarchism and Syndicalism
in the Colonial and Post Colonial World, and there's a
sexual by a guy named Anthony Gorman that I found
(01:22):
really interested in. I just had to share it's really
specific to the anarchist Egyptian anarchist history of like the
late nineteenth and early twentieth century, And honestide, I find
that whole period to be very interesting, partially because I
am a dreaded paradox Games fan and I enjoy my
(01:46):
little you know, like you three mil you know, like
that that period in history. Honestly, any period of history
prior to World War Two I find interesting. Everything World
War two is just like a complete to me, and
then everything passed World War two is like cool, but
it seemed like the World War II period itself not
my thing, you know, like telling me about the Phoenicians,
(02:12):
talking about the Phrygians, talking about the Carthaginians, But I
don't really care about the axis and which tank was
the superior tank and all those different things, and a
lot of these could and qute history buffs into not
to a personal one cereal of course, whatever you know.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Floats your boat.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
But for me, I really like that pre WI War
TI sort of stuff. And Victorian erarors one particularly interesting
point in history, and a lot of things will happen
in that time. Industrial revolution was shaken up around the world,
Colonization was going on and the effects of that, but
(02:53):
you know, reverberate for centuries to come and the true
successor to the Roman Empire. In my opinion, the Ottoman
Empire was kind of going through a series of crises,
and Egypt, which was under the Ottoman Empire and then
(03:14):
brooke free of the Ottoe Empire, had its own stuff
going on.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
So I don't want to get too much.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Into that whole mess, but I want to give some
context because you know, this isn't this is a history episode.
It might be a two part history episode in fact.
So let's just start back in the late nineteenth century.
So there's this foreign work in community in Egypt thanks
to Muhammad Ali no relation, and he was the ruler
(03:44):
of Egypt from eighteen oh five to eighteen forty nine.
This guy is all about modernizing stuff like the military, state, administration,
and the economy. So he invited skilled folks to come
to Egypt and lend their labor.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Oh, isn't he the guy that Napoleon fought for a
little bit?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I think so? I think so. I mean, who didn't
Napoleon fight?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I'm sure if he could have, Napoleon would have fought
like the dinosaurs.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Napoleon fighting Cavement on the moon, Like.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I'm speaking of Napoleon.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I really don't appreciate how I mean no disrespect to
hawqu In Phoenix, But was Napoleon like in his twenties
when he rose up the ranks military and all that. Like,
I could be mistaken. I could be confused in him
with the other Napoleon. But I'm pretty sure Napoleon was
not the old man when he was making a lot
of the.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Moves he was making. Let's see again, I could be.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Wrong, Well, he was, he was more in seventeen seventeen
sixty nine. I'm leaving I'm leaving the maths of this
as an exercise for the reader.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
What really through his new office.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So there's like multiple Napoleons, and so I mix up
the histories of the different Napoleons. Reasonable, But if it
wasn't that Napoleon, I know for sure one of the
Napoleon in question was like relatively young when he was
making some of his moves, like in his early to
(05:08):
mid twenties, when he's rising up the ranks kind of thing. Yeah,
but I could be entirely mistaken, and I'm sure somebody
will correct me, none of this is relevant to what
this episode is ever. But yeah, so Muhammad Ali again
no relation. His successors, Sayid and Ismail, took things to
(05:29):
the next level after he passed on with some major
infrastructure projects. They were building railways, they were expanding canals,
they were going wildly urban development, and they need a
bunch of skilled workers for.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
A lot of that, so they brought.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
In Italians, Greeks, Syrians, Dalmatians, and of course they used
their local Egyptian laborers as well. Many of those workers
came to work on the famous Suez Canal, of course,
and that required.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
A massive workforce, many of whom died.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeahing like like canal digging.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I don't know if female high immortality read professional.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah, yeah, like you might as well dig your own
grave too, like like dig it before you start, so
they can bury your body halfway through.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yes, it's like not gallows humor. It's like canal humor.
You know, it's like this canal, we're going to die
here anyway. It's kind of similar thing I could in
the Panama Canal, although in that case they brought in
a lot of Beesian and other Caribbean workers to Yeah,
you know set that up, and actually the Panama Canal
is responsible for, like what's responsible for I think a
(06:41):
third of the Beigian economy at one point because the
remittances they were being sent back to their families at home.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
That's a whole different chapter in history. But yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
This this massive and diverse workforce is bringing, of course,
not just their labor, but ideas, because whenever you get
people together, they start talking. Egypt was already considered some
kind of a place of refuge for political exiles, so
it's not very surprising that anarchism was starting to gain
popularity around that time, particularly with the Italians in Egypt.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
That's the thing in this period is like you can
literally track the spread of anarchism, like by where there
are a bunch of Italians. Happens in Argentina too. It's
like anywhere there are Italians, anarchy spreads.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
It's like it's a me anarchism.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's gonna set somebody off. My apology
is to the Italian Communitee. I shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, look they had they hadn't invented fascism yet. This
is back when the Italians were still cool.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm probably gonna get a letter hopefully.
You know, there's nothing else what's attached to it. Italians
already had a history with the anarchist movement, as we know.
I mean some people would of course familiar with folks
like Erica Manchester, so there's no surprises there. Label and
(08:05):
political radicalism court sparks first in the Italian Worker Society
or Society Operao Italiana in eighteen sixty, which was formed
to look out for the interests of its members, and
later on in the mid eighteen seventies, you had these
veterans from Gary Baldi's campaigns, and by the way, Gary
Baldi is one of the figures responsible for the Italian unification.
(08:28):
And then you also had other radicals forming Thought and Action,
a political association with Massinian principles. Messini, by the way,
Giuseppe Muscinni was an Italian republican who advocated for liberty
and democracy and class collaboration.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And all that.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Jazz Marx once called him an everlastin old ass which is.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Just really funny, and I had to include that there.
It's just I've made for real anyway.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And then an eating seventy six more radical splinter group
became an official section of the First Internationale in Alexandria,
which is one of the earliest attempts to create a
worldwide association of workers and socialist groups. I don't know
if it could happen, he has ever discussed, like the
history of the International it's before but it gets messy,
(09:21):
Oh god, it's yeah, it gets messy, It gets katti,
it gets like we gotta spill that tea at some point.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, it's fucking wild, like, especially especially once you get
into like the seventeen different Fourth Internationals, and it's it's
a time, like the Second International is such a disaster
that Hosni Mubarik is part of it when he gets
overthrown like it's a it's a good time, and by
a good time, I mean an incredibly bad time.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Honestly, I just have to throw my head back and
laugh quite hotily when I hear folks talking about, you know,
why can't the left unite? You know, like where's the
leftist unity? Why can't we just come to like nah,
this has been taking place since nineteenth century.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
My absolute favorite version of this is people being people
taught people being like, Ah, Marx, Marx wouldn't want there
to have been so much discord on the left. It's like,
have you ever read any Marx like that? That is
a man who's writing is about sixty percent yelling at
someone whose ideas he's also stolen, like by volume. Like
one of his most famous, like one of the things
(10:33):
that you get decided to read from Marx in college
is the German Ideology, which is like four hundred pages
of him being annoyed by people whose ideas are slightly
different than his. It's like like, this is this is
this is an ancient tradition.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
The irony of Marx calling somebody else in Avlastian old
ass will not be lost on me.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And quite frankly, this idea.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Of oh Max wouldn't want this, Max wouldn't that that
really comes from that sort of messiahification of Marx.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I just coined that to him. You know, I could
send me my flowers.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
In the male because essentially what people are doing is
treating Max and max ideas and Marxism. It's just like
Christianity two point zero. And it's kind of like how
you know, people would have been saying like, oh, Jesus
wouldn't want all this division in the church, except he
just replacing Jesus Marx and the chewch.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
With the left. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Like Marx has his famous line where he goes like
if he's just wanting to like the first like French Marxists,
and he goes, if this is Marxism, then I am
not a Marxist. Oh yeah, And then everyone proceeded to
ignore him but call themselves Marxists like, well, this is
great things have gone, this is yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, I mean even in their lifetimes, all of these
figures that we respect, now they didn't really like the admirers,
like Mala Testa was quite embarrassed that he had fans.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I yeah, no, it to be clear, to be clear
that is that is the appropriate we actually having fans
is a terrifying thing, right, flee and terror.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Back to Alexandria, right where the First International's first official section,
one of its sections came about, and it was one
of the earliest attempts to create a world wide association
of workers and socialist groups and expanded and it formed
sections in Cairo and in Port Said and in Ismailia
or Ismailia, Ismailia, and they even had the idea of
(12:41):
spreading socialist propaganda and different languages like Italian and Greek
and Turkish and Arabic to reach more folks in the
quote unquote East. They want to take the ideas of
the First International beyond chest European communities, you know, try
and reach out to the locals. Unfortunate leave for those
familiar the history with his International, it fizzled out, So
(13:04):
you know, they couldn't really fully execute their plans, but
you know, they got to get them credit for trying
to make a difference beyond their own little circles. Meanwhile,
Egypt was in the midst of a deep political crisis.
The military was pissed because of the disastrous Egypt to
European War. The upper ranks the civil service, the army,
in the business world had become dominated by Europeans, who
(13:27):
were paid much more than native Egyptians. The country's inability
to service its debt from cost infrastructure projects and lavish
spending bymayel It's rule at the time led to European
control over its treasury. In eighteen seventy six, another European
treasure pressure Ismayel was to pose in eighteen seventy nine
replace his son Telfik, who aimed to basically satisfy each
(13:48):
of its creditors by any means necessary. And so this
tumultuous political climate provided both challenges and opportunities for the
anarchists in Egypt. A revolt led by an Egyptian officer
of the Egyptian Army, Ahmed Urabi, sorta deposed Telfik, established
a constitutional government and the British and French influence over
(14:09):
the country. Although he was characterized as anti foreign, Urrabi
received support from some foreign elements, including the very same
Italian workers in Alexandria and a lot of the anarchists
in the area. Now, as we know, anarchists are not
really advocates of nationalism, though they will fight for national
liberation causes. So anarchists and nationalists fall themselves on the
(14:32):
same side when it came into fighting against European imperialism
in Egypt. So when the British were causing trouble, anarchists
like Malchester teamed up with nationalists led by Urabi to
resist foreign domination. However, the British and French governments, who
were intent on protecting their investments and nationals confronted Urabi,
(14:54):
which resulted in British forces bombard in Alexandria and eventually
occupying the country in eighteen eighty two. Throughout the early
years of British occupation, the anarchist movement in Egypt faced
both internal divisions and factionalism. Both internal divisions and factionalism
similar to what was happening in other parts of the world.
Anarchists and socialists had been uneasy comrades under the umbrella
(15:18):
of the International during the eighteen seventies, but the defection
of a particularly locally influential figure named Andrea Costa from
Libertarian Socialism from Libertarian Socialism in eighteen seventy nine caused
a significant schism within the local movement.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Let me reread that so.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Anarchists and socialists had been uneasy comrades under the umbrella
of the International during the eighteen seventies, but the defection
of one particularly locally influential figure named Andrea Acosta from
the school of Libertarian Socialism in eighteen seventy nine caused
a significant schism within the local movement, and the movement
(16:00):
also suffered other interel divisions, particularly with the enduring conflict
between anti organizationalists and anarcho syndicalists on the role of
collective association in achieving anarchist aims quote. Until the end
of the nineteenth century, the former trend appears to have
been in the ascendency, but the growth of the labor
movement anarcho synicalists expanded their influence. Other disputes reflected the
(16:26):
power of personalities. Ugo Parini, a key figure staunch anti organizationalist,
was notorious for his uncompromising style and was a persistent
obstacle to create a cooperation among anarchists. Not until after
his death in nineteen oh six was a national program
of action agreed, which provided a solid basis for collaboration
within the Egyptian movement. Now, I didn't find any writings
(16:51):
by Ugo Purini himself to speak his piece, but it
sounds like he might have been a everlastin Olassim seal.
If you know, after the movement he died, they were
able to finally come together and come to agreement on something.
That means bro is like a significant obstacle to the
(17:12):
organizational efforts. But you know, he fought with his principles
and he died by them, so you know, some respect there. So,
until the end of nineteenth century, the anti organizationalists seem
(17:35):
to have had the upper hand, but with the growth
of the labor movements, anarchist syndicalists gained a lot more influence.
Tut tut, leftist disunity strikes again. The real downside of
this history is that the anarchist movement was still quite
European and quite male, and the right and nationalists movements
(17:57):
will not exactly helping matters. However, while the majority of
anarchists women, there was a women's section established in Cairoage
in the eighteen seventies, so there was some female participation
happening as well. You know, it's the real, real Barby
moment there, you know, real win for feminism.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
The ethnic diversity.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Of the anarchist movement in Egypt did expand over time, though,
although Italians remained the dominant group until World War One,
they one attracted Greeks, Jews, Germans, and various Eastern European nationalities.
Arabi phone Egyptians also began to play a lot more
significant role, as seen in the involvement in industrial actions,
(18:39):
educational activities, and anarchist meetings during the early nineteen hundreds,
and the occupational backgrounds of these anarchists were just as
diverse as the ethnicities. Skilled artisans, including carpenters, masons, tailors,
and painters were among the majority. Some came from the
petit bourgeoisie like crousers and tavernonas, while others were involved
(18:59):
in trade or worked for merchant hoses and the movement
also include professionals like doctors, lawyers, and journalists. By the
late nineteenth century, the anarchistic community started to shift its
focus toward the new working class, such as cigarette workers, printers,
and employees of large utilities like tramway companies. However, despite
(19:22):
this diversity, and despite all the calls for internationalism, local
nationalist associations still held a lot of power because they
provided their communities with welfare services and social events and
all that. It's kind of like how immigrants in new
countries even today will typically like group together in enclaves
(19:44):
and communities to share their culture and to share their
support economic and otherwise. When in a situation where ef
we'e around you is perceived as foreign and you're seeking
some measure of security and safe, you know it's culture prociliation.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
That is a thing that.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Immigrants tend to do, and these workers were immigrants to Egypt,
and so they kind of did the same thing. Unfortunately,
many of these national associations were controlled by bourgeois interests
in the Greek community. For example, the powers of the
bourgeois o higarchy in funding and controlling community institutions really
worked to keep workers in line with what the authorities wanted,
(20:24):
because if you stepped out of line from what this
oligarchy wanted, you know, you kind of like lose access
to those essential community institutions. And if you try, if
you still have like a family to take care of,
a family that you might have brought to Egypt or
started in Egypt, or really just struggling against meat, or
you know, your fish out of water and you don't
(20:47):
really know any other languages, you just know your own people.
To be isolated like that is really hazard a situation
to be in. And so that's how they kept people
in line. But that's in terms of the European nationalists.
There's also some rise in Egyptian nationalism. They also had
some sway originally Egyptian nationalists called signs of militant labor
as part of a European disease an alien Egyptian context, which,
(21:13):
by the way, I've noticed a lot of.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Right wing organizations and movements.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Tend to apply that pseudo anti imperial label to things,
so you would see it with for example, some right
wing African nationalist groups would describe the presence of homosexuality
in the country as a consequence of European imperialism. European
(21:43):
cludism is completely foreign to any kind of African context
of history or whatever, which.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Is entirely false. But they do use that sort of like.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
False anti imperialism to build their power base and build
up their reactionary base, so it's a partner. You can't
observe a lot of these right way movements, and particularly
global South right way movements. Interestingly, though, the Egyptian nationalists
who were called in militant labor European disease, their opinions
(22:19):
turned around kind of quick when they saw how potent
it was for exercise and power. In nineteen oh nine,
the Watani Party openly backed the formation of the Manual
Trades Workers Union, which was a diverse body of Egyptian
urban workers, because they recognized the party. Finally recognized both
the need to constitute a broader national community and the
(22:42):
political potential of the workers in the struggle against British occupation. Now,
before the different nationalists came around on this, the anarcho
syndicalists had already begun trying to attract more Egyptian workers
into their Internationalists anarchist struggle. They knew how, they knew
that to make a real impact, they had to connect
with native Egyptian workers. But it's a thing, you know,
(23:05):
the international union structure wasn't always practical for them. Many
occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Egyptians, and
many occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Europeans,
so forming those unions was easier said than done. But
that didn't stop the anarchists from trying. You know, they
saw the importance of promoting lab organization and militancy among
(23:26):
the Egyptian working class. And so when the cab drivers
and Alexandria went on striking nineteen oh three, the anarchists
were there to gas them up. The anarchists who, of
course trying to emphasize what the workers had in common,
the lack of boundaries that labor has, that doesn't care
for things like nationality, or religion or race, that all
workers had the same needs, the same struggles, and the
(23:47):
same aspirations for their well being. Of course, the nationalists
had their own political visions, so while anarchists emphasized international
solidarity and shared interests, nationalists were resorting to nativist of
peace and organizational tactics to splinter the labor movement and
break up at internationalist orientation. To give them some credit, though,
(24:08):
the Returning Party did recognize the importance of allying with
foreign workers and urged Egyptian workers during the Trams strike
of nineteen eleven to unite and strengthen yourselves and increase
your numbers through combination and through unity with the European workers,
your comrades, and let me get to nineteen nineteen and
the quote unquote nineteen nineteen revolution. It's kind of a
(24:31):
significant moment in Egyptian history, and an I guests were there,
so let's talk about it. In nineteen nineteen, the British
government imposed new taxes and restrictions on civil liberties, which
further fuel the discontent and united Egyptians from various social,
economic and political backgrounds. The spark that ignited. The revolution
(24:53):
was a deportation of Egyptian nationalist leaders Sad Saglu and
other political figures by the British authority for opposing their policies. Irresponse,
massive protests erupted across the country, with strikes, demonstrations, and
civil disobedience becoming widespread. Egyptians from all walks of life,
(25:14):
including workers, students, intellectuals, and peasants, took part in the movement.
They were influenced in part by the strategies and tactics
of the syndicalist presence in the region and abroad at
the time. The revolution gained momentum and the demands of
the protesters became more explicit, calling for full independence, a constitution,
and an end to British rule. The British authorities initially
(25:37):
tried to suppress the protests with force, which of course
led to violent clashes and bloodshed. However, the resilience and
unity of the Egyptian people ultimately forced the British government
to recognize the scale of the uprising and the strength
of the nationalist movement. In nineteen twenty two, the United
Kingdom unilaterally declared Egypt's independence. The British continued suit considerable
(26:01):
influence over Egyptian affairs. One could argue that the specter
of anarchism would raise its head again in Egypt's history,
particularly during the Hour of Spring in twenty eleven, when
anarchic tactics can be found across the Middle East and
North Africa. In the next part, I'll be talking more
(26:21):
about what anarchists would doin in Egypt in the late
nineteenth and the twentieth centuries. But for now, I hope
that today is anarchists in Egypt and elsewhear can keep
the flame of freedom burning or power to all the
people peace. Oh one, this has been Andrew. You can
follow me on eat dot com, slash Androwism and support
(26:44):
the patreon a picture on dot com slash sa Drew.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
See y'all next time.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
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Speaker 3 (27:04):
You can find sources for It Could Happen here, updated
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Speaker 2 (27:09):
Thanks for listening.
Welcomes it could happen here.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I am Andrew of the future channal Andrewism, and I'm
here with O.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Wait without the Q. Oh no, yeah, it's ties me
me along. I'm also here at apparently missing Ques instantly.
I don't know. It is barbarically early for me, So.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yay, bobarically What time is it?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Ten o'clock?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Well, come on, come on, come on, come on.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Look, it would have been fine if it wasn't up
till three am last night dealing with a session of
minor crises.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Down that's unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, it's all right.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Otherwise, if it wasn't a crisis, I would have like
flexed my early bood supremacy. But you know, I have
enough since like seven sixthy I'd say something that job.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Now, But I just didn't want to do a ling
with this one.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
And yeah, So today I wanted to shed light on
some really interesting history. I think of the anarchist movement
in Egypt. I've readen this book called Anarchism and Syndicalism
in the Colonial and Post Colonial World, and there's a
sexual by a guy named Anthony Gorman that I found
(01:22):
really interested in. I just had to share it's really
specific to the anarchist Egyptian anarchist history of like the
late nineteenth and early twentieth century, And honestide, I find
that whole period to be very interesting, partially because I
am a dreaded paradox Games fan and I enjoy my
(01:46):
little you know, like you three mil you know, like
that that period in history. Honestly, any period of history
prior to World War Two I find interesting. Everything World
War two is just like a complete to me, and
then everything passed World War two is like cool, but
it seemed like the World War II period itself not
my thing, you know, like telling me about the Phoenicians,
(02:12):
talking about the Phrygians, talking about the Carthaginians, But I
don't really care about the axis and which tank was
the superior tank and all those different things, and a
lot of these could and qute history buffs into not
to a personal one cereal of course, whatever you know.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Floats your boat.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
But for me, I really like that pre WI War
TI sort of stuff. And Victorian erarors one particularly interesting
point in history, and a lot of things will happen
in that time. Industrial revolution was shaken up around the world,
Colonization was going on and the effects of that, but
(02:53):
you know, reverberate for centuries to come and the true
successor to the Roman Empire. In my opinion, the Ottoman
Empire was kind of going through a series of crises,
and Egypt, which was under the Ottoman Empire and then
(03:14):
brooke free of the Ottoe Empire, had its own stuff
going on.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
So I don't want to get too much.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Into that whole mess, but I want to give some
context because you know, this isn't this is a history episode.
It might be a two part history episode in fact.
So let's just start back in the late nineteenth century.
So there's this foreign work in community in Egypt thanks
to Muhammad Ali no relation, and he was the ruler
(03:44):
of Egypt from eighteen oh five to eighteen forty nine.
This guy is all about modernizing stuff like the military, state, administration,
and the economy. So he invited skilled folks to come
to Egypt and lend their labor.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Oh, isn't he the guy that Napoleon fought for a
little bit?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I think so? I think so. I mean, who didn't
Napoleon fight?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I'm sure if he could have, Napoleon would have fought
like the dinosaurs.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Napoleon fighting Cavement on the moon, Like.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I'm speaking of Napoleon.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I really don't appreciate how I mean no disrespect to
hawqu In Phoenix, But was Napoleon like in his twenties
when he rose up the ranks military and all that. Like,
I could be mistaken. I could be confused in him
with the other Napoleon. But I'm pretty sure Napoleon was
not the old man when he was making a lot
of the.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Moves he was making. Let's see again, I could be.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Wrong, Well, he was, he was more in seventeen seventeen
sixty nine. I'm leaving I'm leaving the maths of this
as an exercise for the reader.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
What really through his new office.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So there's like multiple Napoleons, and so I mix up
the histories of the different Napoleons. Reasonable, But if it
wasn't that Napoleon, I know for sure one of the
Napoleon in question was like relatively young when he was
making some of his moves, like in his early to
(05:08):
mid twenties, when he's rising up the ranks kind of thing. Yeah,
but I could be entirely mistaken, and I'm sure somebody
will correct me, none of this is relevant to what
this episode is ever. But yeah, so Muhammad Ali again
no relation. His successors, Sayid and Ismail, took things to
(05:29):
the next level after he passed on with some major
infrastructure projects. They were building railways, they were expanding canals,
they were going wildly urban development, and they need a
bunch of skilled workers for.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
A lot of that, so they brought.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
In Italians, Greeks, Syrians, Dalmatians, and of course they used
their local Egyptian laborers as well. Many of those workers
came to work on the famous Suez Canal, of course,
and that required.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
A massive workforce, many of whom died.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeahing like like canal digging.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I don't know if female high immortality read professional.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah, yeah, like you might as well dig your own
grave too, like like dig it before you start, so
they can bury your body halfway through.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yes, it's like not gallows humor. It's like canal humor.
You know, it's like this canal, we're going to die
here anyway. It's kind of similar thing I could in
the Panama Canal, although in that case they brought in
a lot of Beesian and other Caribbean workers to Yeah,
you know set that up, and actually the Panama Canal
is responsible for, like what's responsible for I think a
(06:41):
third of the Beigian economy at one point because the
remittances they were being sent back to their families at home.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
That's a whole different chapter in history. But yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
This this massive and diverse workforce is bringing, of course,
not just their labor, but ideas, because whenever you get
people together, they start talking. Egypt was already considered some
kind of a place of refuge for political exiles, so
it's not very surprising that anarchism was starting to gain
popularity around that time, particularly with the Italians in Egypt.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
That's the thing in this period is like you can
literally track the spread of anarchism, like by where there
are a bunch of Italians. Happens in Argentina too. It's
like anywhere there are Italians, anarchy spreads.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
It's like it's a me anarchism.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's gonna set somebody off. My apology
is to the Italian Communitee. I shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, look they had they hadn't invented fascism yet. This
is back when the Italians were still cool.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm probably gonna get a letter hopefully.
You know, there's nothing else what's attached to it. Italians
already had a history with the anarchist movement, as we know.
I mean some people would of course familiar with folks
like Erica Manchester, so there's no surprises there. Label and
(08:05):
political radicalism court sparks first in the Italian Worker Society
or Society Operao Italiana in eighteen sixty, which was formed
to look out for the interests of its members, and
later on in the mid eighteen seventies, you had these
veterans from Gary Baldi's campaigns, and by the way, Gary
Baldi is one of the figures responsible for the Italian unification.
(08:28):
And then you also had other radicals forming Thought and Action,
a political association with Massinian principles. Messini, by the way,
Giuseppe Muscinni was an Italian republican who advocated for liberty
and democracy and class collaboration.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And all that.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Jazz Marx once called him an everlastin old ass which is.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Just really funny, and I had to include that there.
It's just I've made for real anyway.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And then an eating seventy six more radical splinter group
became an official section of the First Internationale in Alexandria,
which is one of the earliest attempts to create a
worldwide association of workers and socialist groups. I don't know
if it could happen, he has ever discussed, like the
history of the International it's before but it gets messy,
(09:21):
Oh god, it's yeah, it gets messy, It gets katti,
it gets like we gotta spill that tea at some point.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, it's fucking wild, like, especially especially once you get
into like the seventeen different Fourth Internationals, and it's it's
a time, like the Second International is such a disaster
that Hosni Mubarik is part of it when he gets
overthrown like it's a it's a good time, and by
a good time, I mean an incredibly bad time.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Honestly, I just have to throw my head back and
laugh quite hotily when I hear folks talking about, you know,
why can't the left unite? You know, like where's the
leftist unity? Why can't we just come to like nah,
this has been taking place since nineteenth century.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
My absolute favorite version of this is people being people
taught people being like, Ah, Marx, Marx wouldn't want there
to have been so much discord on the left. It's like,
have you ever read any Marx like that? That is
a man who's writing is about sixty percent yelling at
someone whose ideas he's also stolen, like by volume. Like
one of his most famous, like one of the things
(10:33):
that you get decided to read from Marx in college
is the German Ideology, which is like four hundred pages
of him being annoyed by people whose ideas are slightly
different than his. It's like like, this is this is
this is an ancient tradition.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
The irony of Marx calling somebody else in Avlastian old
ass will not be lost on me.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And quite frankly, this idea.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Of oh Max wouldn't want this, Max wouldn't that that
really comes from that sort of messiahification of Marx.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I just coined that to him. You know, I could
send me my flowers.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
In the male because essentially what people are doing is
treating Max and max ideas and Marxism. It's just like
Christianity two point zero. And it's kind of like how
you know, people would have been saying like, oh, Jesus
wouldn't want all this division in the church, except he
just replacing Jesus Marx and the chewch.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
With the left. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Like Marx has his famous line where he goes like
if he's just wanting to like the first like French Marxists,
and he goes, if this is Marxism, then I am
not a Marxist. Oh yeah, And then everyone proceeded to
ignore him but call themselves Marxists like, well, this is
great things have gone, this is yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, I mean even in their lifetimes, all of these
figures that we respect, now they didn't really like the admirers,
like Mala Testa was quite embarrassed that he had fans.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I yeah, no, it to be clear, to be clear
that is that is the appropriate we actually having fans
is a terrifying thing, right, flee and terror.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Back to Alexandria, right where the First International's first official section,
one of its sections came about, and it was one
of the earliest attempts to create a world wide association
of workers and socialist groups and expanded and it formed
sections in Cairo and in Port Said and in Ismailia
or Ismailia, Ismailia, and they even had the idea of
(12:41):
spreading socialist propaganda and different languages like Italian and Greek
and Turkish and Arabic to reach more folks in the
quote unquote East. They want to take the ideas of
the First International beyond chest European communities, you know, try
and reach out to the locals. Unfortunate leave for those
familiar the history with his International, it fizzled out, So
(13:04):
you know, they couldn't really fully execute their plans, but
you know, they got to get them credit for trying
to make a difference beyond their own little circles. Meanwhile,
Egypt was in the midst of a deep political crisis.
The military was pissed because of the disastrous Egypt to
European War. The upper ranks the civil service, the army,
in the business world had become dominated by Europeans, who
(13:27):
were paid much more than native Egyptians. The country's inability
to service its debt from cost infrastructure projects and lavish
spending bymayel It's rule at the time led to European
control over its treasury. In eighteen seventy six, another European
treasure pressure Ismayel was to pose in eighteen seventy nine
replace his son Telfik, who aimed to basically satisfy each
(13:48):
of its creditors by any means necessary. And so this
tumultuous political climate provided both challenges and opportunities for the
anarchists in Egypt. A revolt led by an Egyptian officer
of the Egyptian Army, Ahmed Urabi, sorta deposed Telfik, established
a constitutional government and the British and French influence over
(14:09):
the country. Although he was characterized as anti foreign, Urrabi
received support from some foreign elements, including the very same
Italian workers in Alexandria and a lot of the anarchists
in the area. Now, as we know, anarchists are not
really advocates of nationalism, though they will fight for national
liberation causes. So anarchists and nationalists fall themselves on the
(14:32):
same side when it came into fighting against European imperialism
in Egypt. So when the British were causing trouble, anarchists
like Malchester teamed up with nationalists led by Urabi to
resist foreign domination. However, the British and French governments, who
were intent on protecting their investments and nationals confronted Urabi,
(14:54):
which resulted in British forces bombard in Alexandria and eventually
occupying the country in eighteen eighty two. Throughout the early
years of British occupation, the anarchist movement in Egypt faced
both internal divisions and factionalism. Both internal divisions and factionalism
similar to what was happening in other parts of the world.
Anarchists and socialists had been uneasy comrades under the umbrella
(15:18):
of the International during the eighteen seventies, but the defection
of a particularly locally influential figure named Andrea Costa from
Libertarian Socialism from Libertarian Socialism in eighteen seventy nine caused
a significant schism within the local movement.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Let me reread that so.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Anarchists and socialists had been uneasy comrades under the umbrella
of the International during the eighteen seventies, but the defection
of one particularly locally influential figure named Andrea Acosta from
the school of Libertarian Socialism in eighteen seventy nine caused
a significant schism within the local movement, and the movement
(16:00):
also suffered other interel divisions, particularly with the enduring conflict
between anti organizationalists and anarcho syndicalists on the role of
collective association in achieving anarchist aims quote. Until the end
of the nineteenth century, the former trend appears to have
been in the ascendency, but the growth of the labor
movement anarcho synicalists expanded their influence. Other disputes reflected the
(16:26):
power of personalities. Ugo Parini, a key figure staunch anti organizationalist,
was notorious for his uncompromising style and was a persistent
obstacle to create a cooperation among anarchists. Not until after
his death in nineteen oh six was a national program
of action agreed, which provided a solid basis for collaboration
within the Egyptian movement. Now, I didn't find any writings
(16:51):
by Ugo Purini himself to speak his piece, but it
sounds like he might have been a everlastin Olassim seal.
If you know, after the movement he died, they were
able to finally come together and come to agreement on something.
That means bro is like a significant obstacle to the
(17:12):
organizational efforts. But you know, he fought with his principles
and he died by them, so you know, some respect there. So,
until the end of nineteenth century, the anti organizationalists seem
(17:35):
to have had the upper hand, but with the growth
of the labor movements, anarchist syndicalists gained a lot more influence.
Tut tut, leftist disunity strikes again. The real downside of
this history is that the anarchist movement was still quite
European and quite male, and the right and nationalists movements
(17:57):
will not exactly helping matters. However, while the majority of
anarchists women, there was a women's section established in Cairoage
in the eighteen seventies, so there was some female participation
happening as well. You know, it's the real, real Barby
moment there, you know, real win for feminism.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
The ethnic diversity.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Of the anarchist movement in Egypt did expand over time, though,
although Italians remained the dominant group until World War One,
they one attracted Greeks, Jews, Germans, and various Eastern European nationalities.
Arabi phone Egyptians also began to play a lot more
significant role, as seen in the involvement in industrial actions,
(18:39):
educational activities, and anarchist meetings during the early nineteen hundreds,
and the occupational backgrounds of these anarchists were just as
diverse as the ethnicities. Skilled artisans, including carpenters, masons, tailors,
and painters were among the majority. Some came from the
petit bourgeoisie like crousers and tavernonas, while others were involved
(18:59):
in trade or worked for merchant hoses and the movement
also include professionals like doctors, lawyers, and journalists. By the
late nineteenth century, the anarchistic community started to shift its
focus toward the new working class, such as cigarette workers, printers,
and employees of large utilities like tramway companies. However, despite
(19:22):
this diversity, and despite all the calls for internationalism, local
nationalist associations still held a lot of power because they
provided their communities with welfare services and social events and
all that. It's kind of like how immigrants in new
countries even today will typically like group together in enclaves
(19:44):
and communities to share their culture and to share their
support economic and otherwise. When in a situation where ef
we'e around you is perceived as foreign and you're seeking
some measure of security and safe, you know it's culture prociliation.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
That is a thing that.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Immigrants tend to do, and these workers were immigrants to Egypt,
and so they kind of did the same thing. Unfortunately,
many of these national associations were controlled by bourgeois interests
in the Greek community. For example, the powers of the
bourgeois o higarchy in funding and controlling community institutions really
worked to keep workers in line with what the authorities wanted,
(20:24):
because if you stepped out of line from what this
oligarchy wanted, you know, you kind of like lose access
to those essential community institutions. And if you try, if
you still have like a family to take care of,
a family that you might have brought to Egypt or
started in Egypt, or really just struggling against meat, or
you know, your fish out of water and you don't
(20:47):
really know any other languages, you just know your own people.
To be isolated like that is really hazard a situation
to be in. And so that's how they kept people
in line. But that's in terms of the European nationalists.
There's also some rise in Egyptian nationalism. They also had
some sway originally Egyptian nationalists called signs of militant labor
as part of a European disease an alien Egyptian context, which,
(21:13):
by the way, I've noticed a lot of.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Right wing organizations and movements.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Tend to apply that pseudo anti imperial label to things,
so you would see it with for example, some right
wing African nationalist groups would describe the presence of homosexuality
in the country as a consequence of European imperialism. European
(21:43):
cludism is completely foreign to any kind of African context
of history or whatever, which.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Is entirely false. But they do use that sort of like.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
False anti imperialism to build their power base and build
up their reactionary base, so it's a partner. You can't
observe a lot of these right way movements, and particularly
global South right way movements. Interestingly, though, the Egyptian nationalists
who were called in militant labor European disease, their opinions
(22:19):
turned around kind of quick when they saw how potent
it was for exercise and power. In nineteen oh nine,
the Watani Party openly backed the formation of the Manual
Trades Workers Union, which was a diverse body of Egyptian
urban workers, because they recognized the party. Finally recognized both
the need to constitute a broader national community and the
(22:42):
political potential of the workers in the struggle against British occupation. Now,
before the different nationalists came around on this, the anarcho
syndicalists had already begun trying to attract more Egyptian workers
into their Internationalists anarchist struggle. They knew how, they knew
that to make a real impact, they had to connect
with native Egyptian workers. But it's a thing, you know,
(23:05):
the international union structure wasn't always practical for them. Many
occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Egyptians, and
many occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Europeans,
so forming those unions was easier said than done. But
that didn't stop the anarchists from trying. You know, they
saw the importance of promoting lab organization and militancy among
(23:26):
the Egyptian working class. And so when the cab drivers
and Alexandria went on striking nineteen oh three, the anarchists
were there to gas them up. The anarchists who, of
course trying to emphasize what the workers had in common,
the lack of boundaries that labor has, that doesn't care
for things like nationality, or religion or race, that all
workers had the same needs, the same struggles, and the
(23:47):
same aspirations for their well being. Of course, the nationalists
had their own political visions, so while anarchists emphasized international
solidarity and shared interests, nationalists were resorting to nativist of
peace and organizational tactics to splinter the labor movement and
break up at internationalist orientation. To give them some credit, though,
(24:08):
the Returning Party did recognize the importance of allying with
foreign workers and urged Egyptian workers during the Trams strike
of nineteen eleven to unite and strengthen yourselves and increase
your numbers through combination and through unity with the European workers,
your comrades, and let me get to nineteen nineteen and
the quote unquote nineteen nineteen revolution. It's kind of a
(24:31):
significant moment in Egyptian history, and an I guests were there,
so let's talk about it. In nineteen nineteen, the British
government imposed new taxes and restrictions on civil liberties, which
further fuel the discontent and united Egyptians from various social,
economic and political backgrounds. The spark that ignited. The revolution
(24:53):
was a deportation of Egyptian nationalist leaders Sad Saglu and
other political figures by the British authority for opposing their policies. Irresponse,
massive protests erupted across the country, with strikes, demonstrations, and
civil disobedience becoming widespread. Egyptians from all walks of life,
(25:14):
including workers, students, intellectuals, and peasants, took part in the movement.
They were influenced in part by the strategies and tactics
of the syndicalist presence in the region and abroad at
the time. The revolution gained momentum and the demands of
the protesters became more explicit, calling for full independence, a constitution,
and an end to British rule. The British authorities initially
(25:37):
tried to suppress the protests with force, which of course
led to violent clashes and bloodshed. However, the resilience and
unity of the Egyptian people ultimately forced the British government
to recognize the scale of the uprising and the strength
of the nationalist movement. In nineteen twenty two, the United
Kingdom unilaterally declared Egypt's independence. The British continued suit considerable
(26:01):
influence over Egyptian affairs. One could argue that the specter
of anarchism would raise its head again in Egypt's history,
particularly during the Hour of Spring in twenty eleven, when
anarchic tactics can be found across the Middle East and
North Africa. In the next part, I'll be talking more
(26:21):
about what anarchists would doin in Egypt in the late
nineteenth and the twentieth centuries. But for now, I hope
that today is anarchists in Egypt and elsewhear can keep
the flame of freedom burning or power to all the
people peace. Oh one, this has been Andrew. You can
follow me on eat dot com, slash Androwism and support
(26:44):
the patreon a picture on dot com slash sa Drew.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
See y'all next time.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool zonemedia dot com, or check out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
You can find sources for It Could Happen here, updated
monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Thanks for listening.
It Could Happen Here News
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Robert Evans
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