September 14, 2023 • 35 mins
James talks to Robert and Shereen about CBP’s practice of detaining migrants in the open air with no food, water, or supplies, and then denying they’re detaining them
Xavier’s video coverage: https://youtube.com/@sdartivistmedia?si=LZR1a6OeqgzcA6Sf
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
With white with.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello everyone. It's me James and I'm joined by Scharen
and Robert. Today we're going to be talking about the border,
which is where the audio you heard at the start
was recorded yesterday. Hi Serene and Robert.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Hi James.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello James, thank you, Robert, Thank you Serene. It's lovely
to have this form on introduction time. Okay. So yeah,
we're gathered here to go to talk about the border.
And the reason we are talking about the board it
is because border patrol are doing their thing, the thing
that they like to do tiemingly like on a quarterly
basis actually exactly three months after the last time, which
(00:53):
is to hold people out in the open in between
the two board defenses in Santi Sego, just about fifteen
minutes south of where I live. The it's probably worth
grounding this discussion in the various claims and counterclaims. So
there are about two hundred people in between the two
boarder fences right now. People I spoke to were from Azerbijan,
(01:17):
Turkmenistan and Zbekistan, Turkey, China, Vietnam, Hondoors, Guatemala. Yeah. Like
the reason that sometimes these lists of people sound like,
you know, you're singing Washington bullets. Is because these are
all countries that we have destabilized in one way or another,
saying we qua the United States, not we as CAOL
(01:38):
zone media, we were spire to de stabilized regimes.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
We've only destabilized two or three countries.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, and we're proud of it. Yeah we don't, Yeah,
we don't. Uh, we don't hide it.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
But yeah, we took our shot at Canada, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, yeah, Well we've taken a good couple of swings
in a tamadoor. I think we land some punches, but
who knows, time will tell. So yeah, it's people from
like I think often the migration is constructed as quite
unquote Mexican, which is definitely not the case. I spoke
to one family from Mexico yesterday. But like, even if
you look at border patrol statistics, about four thousand out
(02:17):
of fifteen thousand people apprehended in the San Diego sector
in July of this year of Mexican nationality.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
That's lawer than I would assume to be honest.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, I mean it's just a number of things, right, Like,
it's these countries, Like climate change is definitely getting worse,
so migration is happening from there. I see a lot
of people from Vietnam. I don't have the language skills
to speak to them in depth, like I was speaking
to someone when We'll get onto this through Google Translate
(02:46):
from Vietnam. But hard to conduct a full interview, especially
when folks are guarding their phone charge, which they are
because exactly the same as last time, they need the
phone to do CBP one. They need the phone to
interact with their families, let them know they're safe. Some
of their families, I guess don't know that they're traveling.
I was helping people charge phones yesterday. So we can talk.
(03:09):
Let's talk a little bit about mutual aid response, and
then we'll get onto the border patrol, you know. So
there are two groups down there right now, and I
think it's very impressive the services they're able to provide
because because Border Patrol claim these people are not detained,
that means that they are therefore not obliged to provide
any services to them. Right So that would mean they
(03:29):
don't have to give them water, they don't have to
give them food, they don't have to give them shelter
or like salitation, which salitation is the one that's really
hard to cover because everything has to go through a
fist sized gap in the fence. So that's still like
an unmet need. But these two groups free Ship Collective,
(03:50):
they're free Ship pebe on Twitter, and also American Friends
Service Committee. I've spoken about them before. They're a Quaker
group that they're really great like in terms of turning
up and helping people who need help. They're constantly there
and they they're a good place to send your money
even if you're not a Quaker yourself, like check out
(04:10):
the Twitter. Like Actually, they're probably aligned with a lot
of people who listened to show on a lot of things.
I think their prison abolitionists. So those two groups were
there and they would At first there was myself, one
person from American French Service Committee and two older volunteers
who would come in about one hundred and fifty to
two hundred people. So most of the ideas kind of
(04:31):
helped because I think in that situation is more important
to help than necessarily like get the best audio for
your podcast. So we handed out water, handed out food,
handed out those emergency survival blankets, and it was about
all we had at first, some like medical stuff people
had medical and a bit later free ship people came
(04:52):
and Xavier came. I'm not sure what Zavier's org is,
but I will tweet it when I find it. I'll
put it in the show notes to He's great. I've
spoken at his events before that he holds down by
the Border. We had a border media round table. He
turned up with a massive generator, so that was great.
We're able to charge phones. And what's really I think
like notable is how much the people in between the
(05:15):
fences are able to participate in distribution of goods and
helping each other. So like they have a person who
volunteers to be the coordinator for the water distribution, and
one who volunteers to coordinate for the organizing people into
lines and making sure people don't cut the line right,
and then one person who was the phone captain who
(05:36):
was doing like an incredible job of they'd get the
cell phone right right the name of the person and
then sign them a number in the line, and that
person would also have that name and number written on
their hand, and it's written in duct tape that's taped
to them and tape to the phone. And then when
their turn to charge comes, he would shout the name
of the number. They would come from wherever they were
in between the walls. They'd come and we would charge
(05:58):
the phone, and then once they've got above fifty sixty percent,
we'd switch it out and he'd call them again and
they come get their phone. So lots of that is
stuff that was learned in May and has been like
implemented again much more like. It's less chaotic than it
was before, and fewer people are able to provide better help,
which is really good that it doesn't mean that those
people don't need like donations, because they do. I know,
(06:20):
the free ship people came with dozens of blankets, but
there weren't enough blankets for everybody, so we were prioritizing
families with children and pregnant women to have a blanket.
It was cold yesterday, it was raining, and people didn't
have anything to shelter under. There were a few tarts,
but not very many, and it's a pretty like there
were very young babies there. Right, it's a pretty difficult
(06:42):
place to sleep with Like, people were very keen to
get their hands on cardboard boxes to lie down on
to sleep. That gives you a sense of how kind
of underserved they are. There's obviously no toilet facilities because
you're just in a dusty kind of desert area by
the border. So if people are familiar with Lass Americas,
(07:03):
the Discount Moll, we're like maybe a mile west of
there along the dirt road, and it's just kind of
dusty field, so very rocky, very difficult people to sleep,
very exposed to the elements. Right, it was hot today,
like I was out earlier, and it's ninety one, so
they won't be having any shade today. They didn't have
(07:23):
any shelter from the rain or al ways to keep
warm last night. They're not allowed to start fires either,
even if they have the means to do so. So
the situation of these people, I think is something worth
discussing because it's not exactly super duper clear what role
this plays in the immigration process. And there were a
(07:45):
couple of examples to illustrate that. So I was able
to talk to one person. They presented themselves from like
they came into the parking lot walking and they looked
looked very concerned, and so I approached him as, hey,
do you need anything, can we help few? And they
had experienced some kind of medical condition and been taken
(08:06):
to hospital, which Customs and Border Protection will do that, right, Like,
if those people are there and they're having an emergency,
they'll open the gate, take that person out and transport
them to hospital somewhere in San Diego. That person had
then been released from hospital to a taxi, which hospitals
in San Diego have a habit of doing this. They'll
(08:27):
dump homeless people. Right If you anyone in San Diego
will have seen this, you'll be familiar with that. People
dumped out of hospital in Hillcrest wearing a hospital gown
and maybe having very little other possessions. It's every single
day this happens. Unfortunately, people have passed away on being
released by the hospital before in Hillcrest. So they release
(08:50):
these folks and I guess they often give them a
bus pass or they pay for a taxi. In this case,
they paid for this person's taxi. They asked for a
taxi to the border. The command of English was pretty limited.
They asked for attacks to the border. They were taken
to like the formal border crossing the Sanisudur, which is
a mile and a half east of where we were.
And then they walked down the dirt road to where
(09:11):
we were. But obviously because there was a fence in
between US and the people being detained, then they weren't
able to access that area, right, So that leaves them
in a conundrum, right that they're now in the United
States without without any status they were able to want
(09:32):
Bodiptroll agent advise them to return to Mexico. Obviously, that
would constitute an entry to Mexico in between portsland entry,
where you'd be illegally entering Mexico. It's not bot of
Patrol's job to enforce Mexican laws. But that person was
in the United States and presented a claim for asylum.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
They had a cell phone and they were using Google Translate,
and they literally I could see it. It was like,
I'm afraid to go back to my country, afraid I
will be her if I go back there, which is
like a pretty textbook asylum claim. I would like to
claim asylum right. And on making that claim, a Border
(10:10):
Patrol agent returned them to the area in between the fences, right,
which would suggest that this is a holding facility to
border patrol for people. I just want to read the
statement that Border Patrol made to me this morning this
was like a couple of hours one recording this, recording
this on Tuesday. CBP has built and retrofited facilities along
(10:33):
the Southwest border to enhance our capabilities in this regard.
CBP has also significantly increased the number of medical personnel
along the Southwest border and those providing other wrap around services,
all to better support ensuring getting people appropriate care as
quickly as possible. Border Patrol has prioritized the quick transportation
of migrants encountered in this environment, which is partially dangerous,
(10:54):
particularly dangerous uring current weather conditions, to border patrol facilities
where individuals can see medical care, food, and water. It
is important to note that migrants who are between the
border barriers are not in border patrol custody and are
at liberty to return to Mexico if they desire. We
have some audio of border patrol addressing the migrazine between
defenses that Daniald's going to drop in right after this person.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
You have a Monday, Just ghost it outast it out.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
We take as soon as we can. Listen, there's too
many of you.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
You can't do this fast.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Why as you here and talk.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
To you the last time we have to take people.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
We're not designed to take hundreds of people. We're working
as fast as we can be patient.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I can tell you this. They're shouting at them, they're
shouting at them in English. They're not really giving any case.
So what the people obviously have questions, right they've entered,
Lots of them have been given bracelets when he's talking
about the bracelets, and people will have heard that in
the intro to that they were taking people with white bracelets.
Those have a day, right the day that you entered,
(12:10):
so like it might say Monday or Sunday or today.
Obviously it's Tuesday, so they would get a bracelet which
has a color and a day, and they process people
in order of priority. The people who arrived on Monday
first seale process on accompanied minors. I didn't see any obviously,
some eighteen year old people. It could be hard to
(12:32):
tell how exactly hold they are, but seventeen whatever, But
I didn't see any people that young on their own.
After that, they will process single mothers with children sor
a few of those, quite a few of those. After that,
they will process like a family, which they defined to
consist of a man or woman and children. After that
(12:53):
they will process men on their own. I guess women
on their own, then men on their own. They had
initially separate people. They had people just like they had
last time, right in like families and those with children,
and then single men were somewhere else. But it seemed
like people were able to come to travel in between
the fences down to the place where I was, because
that was the only place that they were able to
(13:13):
access services, right And I guess the claim of border
patrollers that these people could go back to Mexico. I'm
not sure how because obviously that they're in between these
thirty foot walls right right, you could.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Go around the end.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
That's how people come north. But that's quite a hike,
especially if you haven't got any water and food and stuff.
So yeah, it's this is what they've claimed. It's worth
noting that like Border Patrol, a number of representative from
the Hispanic Caucus like requested Border Patrol clarify this after
(13:50):
what happened in May, and their letter they noted that
the conditions violate agency guidelines for detention, which they do,
and that Boderpatol isn't supposed to hold people in his
own custody for more than seventy two hours, which some
people were held for longer than that in May, and
CBP responded, I'll just read it out. The individuals in
question had not made contact with US Border Patrol personnel
and were not constrained from further movement. At the time
(14:13):
of this incident, the US Border Patrol San Diego sector
facilities were experiencing capacity issues and some transportation challenges which
have since been remediated. Border Patrol agents encountered and apprehended
these migrants as soon as there's operationally feasible to do so. Again,
like they were dropped off in May by Border Patrol
vehicles in the place where they were being detained, And
(14:34):
it's simply not factually correct to suggest that they had
not come into contact with Border Patrol. I have video
of it. I've published video over on Twitter, We've used
audio of it on the podcast. I think it's just
not true. So Border Patrol essentially are claiming that this
isn't happening when it continues to happen, right, and this
(14:57):
time they've taken that to it's like they've al readly
doubled down on that status. I guess because they're not
providing any services, which is probably a good time for
us to hear from some products and services. Oh yeah,
fucking magic, Look at that taking a victory lap. I'm
(15:17):
quitting now never podcast again. I enjoy these adverts. Yeah
it's me, I'm back. Everyone else is still here too.
Now we're talking about the mutual eight response to what's
(15:38):
happening at their border, right And as I said, a
border patrol aren't providing anything. And as I said, at
least when I left, I left after it got dark,
quite a long time after it got dark last night.
It was there for probably seven six or seven hours,
and I saw more and more people arriving in that time,
and it was a really wide dispersed group of people.
Like I would say, maybe the majority were Spanish speaking,
(16:01):
but a lot of people with Vietnamese. I was speaking
to some Francophone African people at various nationalities right before
I left, Like I said, lots of people from Tadjikustan, Azbekistan,
as Abijan, places like that. Those people were pretty prominent.
So it's fairly hard for volunteers to communicate with all
of them, and they don't have any information right about
(16:23):
what's happening to them. Can they expect to be separated.
In some cases they can. Can they expect how long
can they expect to be there? We don't really know.
I heard one bord of patrol agents saying that some
of the people who arrived on Monday could expect to
be taken out maybe by Wednesday, So that's at least
two hours two days, right, So all of the services
(16:45):
they're being provided, they're being provided through mutual aid right now,
which is exactly the same thing that happened last time.
Right Sometimes, Border Patrol last time gave them a granola bar.
We haven't come back with their granola bars this time.
And I think it's really worth us like taking a
moment to consider the scale of what like two hundred
(17:07):
people is not that many people, but it was more
than two thousand people in May, and that was provided
for by mutual aid. And I think it's a really
good like getting off point for maybe us to have
a little talk here about how we do mutual aid,
because the only thing that enabled like little babies to
have like a blanket is someone messaging someone else on
(17:31):
signal and being like, hey, this is happening again. Do
you have stuff? Can you come down and someone who
I don't know, weeks ago, I guess was like, oh,
these people are doing nice things, let me send them
some money, because without that, those people would just be
sleeping in the in the in the dust. I think
it's really it's it's admirable, I think, and it's something
that like, I don't know how to say this, that
(17:55):
we should take into consideration when we're discussing things like
religion and then like doing this course, and like it
could be really easy to get like into like full
readit atheist mode. I'm not a person who believes in
religion particularly, but like, the only people who are helping
at some point are people who are at least part
(18:16):
of religious organizations.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Look, I think that the perfectly consistent stance to have
is that like, if someone is showing up and providing
people with necessary assistance and not not asking for anything
in return, including the ability to prostolytize, then I don't
give a shit what yeh, right, Like, I don't care
(18:39):
if they're from a church. I don't care if it's
like you know, some wee like as long as they
are showing up and helping people in desperate need and
not demanding some sort of something from them, including like
you know, them listen to a spiel. I don't really
you know, it could be a church, who gives a fuck, right, like,
I'm glad they're there, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Totally, it could be church. There were mosques there last time.
I'm sure that they were like synagogues.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
And yeah, fucking kudos to those people, right, yeah, you know,
like that's good, glad they're there.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, those Yeah, those people are doing anarkids and do,
even if they wouldn't call it that or whatever. Like,
you know, the more we can create networks that look
after each other without trying to control each other, then
the better of a place we make the world. And
that's what those people are doing, and we should all
celebrate that and support them however we can. I guess.
(19:30):
So as of today, there are still people there, and
they still seem to be putting people in there. I
think it's not supposed to be too hot this week,
like we had triple digit days last week. I think
over the weekend was pretty hot. Yeah, it was. It
was very hot on the weekend. So, like, the possibility
for this to get much worse is still there, right,
(19:53):
The possibility for people to get the person I spoke
to who had to go to hospital had become deep hydrated,
Like that's how they needed because you don't when people
were come when we first at least when I first
got there, people were very hungry and very thirsty and
like really desperate for a drink of water because often
they'd come from some of those other holding areas and
(20:15):
like walked down because this was the only place where
they could access stuff. So like, yeah, I guess the
potential for this to turn into something as sad and
completely unnecessary as what happened in May is there again.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, so you mentioned that there's no shade, like no
shade in areas, so when it's triple digits, like there
are kids and babies and everyone's outside, Yes, that is
just I mean, it's terrible regardless, but like that in particular,
that's like brutal.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, I mean, I think I've shared these pities with
you guys before, but like in Hakumber in May, people
were making little kind of a frames and lean to's
and out of ostillos and cacti and stuff, just trying
to get out because it was very hot then out there.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Even the photos you sat recently, there's like a there's
a photo you sat with the child's hand, like coming
out of the the fence that.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
It made me emotional. Yeah, it makes me emotional, honestly.
Like I think I've said this before, like in interviews,
and I would an interview with Rory Pecktreust about this,
but like I would rather go somewhere dangerous and have
dangerous things happen then see a little kid have to
be cold, not be able to help them, or like
just be sad, like it's not a funny place for children,
(21:34):
And that fucks me up in a way that like
that's yeah, I would.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I would so much rather be like physically uncomfortable or
in danger than like be in a perfectly safe place
where you're watching kids suffer.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Like that's the rough thing.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I've been to a lot of refugee camps, and it's
always like, you know, it's weird because I've also seen
a lot of kids like in active combat zones And
don't take the wrong thing out of this, but like
the kids who have been stuck in a camp with
like no chance of ever getting out seem like more
(22:12):
depressed in a lot of ways than the kids who
every day, you know, they're they're in you know, part
of the city, even though like the city is a
dangerous place to be. They're they're moving around, they're usually
doing stuff. Obviously, it's a much more worse situation in
a lot of ways. But like the degree to which
being in this limbo messes with their heads and depresses
(22:35):
them and traumatizes them is And again I'm not saying
like it's better for kids to be in an act
of war zone, but like that is trauma as well,
and I think in a lot of ways an equivalent trauma.
Even though the danger to their body is less, the
trauma they face being stuck in a place and not
having any idea what the future is and not having
(22:57):
any ability to influence it. Really right being you know,
these kids up at this fence are totally they have
no control over their future or their lives.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Really, I think that's the really like it strips people
of their agency, which is a really degrading thing to do. Right,
you're forcing these people they can do everything right that
(23:27):
that person presented a perfect affirmative asylum claim, you know,
and yeah, it doesn't matter. And I think that's very hard,
especially I imagine it's very difficult. I'm not a parent,
but I imagine that, Like if you are a parent, God, yeah,
you know, you just want your kids to have a
safe place to grow up. And like, I don't know.
(23:47):
It's the first time I ever realized that I was
having a trauma response, and it was not a good one.
Was in twenty eighteen with the migrant caravan, when like
I had been there was one little child where I
speak about a lot, but she was obsessed with my hair.
If people haven't seen, paces of me have long hair,
and like wanted to braid my hair every time I
(24:07):
went there. And so she'd come and she'd sit on
my shoulders and I would just do shit, and she
would braid my hair while I was, you know, handing
out water bottles or you know, talking to people, doing
what I could do. And like, I saw that girl
every day for months, right, And then I remember once
coming back to a Christmas party and just wanting to
fucking scream at everyone. It's a juxtaposition from being seeing
(24:29):
this little kid like deprived of so many things that
chord should have, warmth and shelter and good food and
a safe place to be, and then going home, you know,
twenty minute drive across the border, drive home and see
people just like going about their lives. It's it's a
really challenging duality. We can't stop it, right, Like it's
(24:52):
not in our power to stop this, but like it
is in our power. One of the things I hear
people being like, it's like welcome to America. Like it's
pretty fucked up way to be welcome to America, right,
But like, like, I'm an immigrant. My my arrival here
was very different, and like Sharene, you came here when
you were younger, right, I was.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I didn't immigrate myself. I was born here a month old,
moved back from my parents, immigrated.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah so you can be president, that's important.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Oh yes, I can be president.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
You can be president, but not James, which is which
is good? Which is good? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, in general that is my goal for you, James. Yeah,
I can see. I'd really crush it in that round.
I do love a good law. Yeah yeah, yeah, Cherine
can take out Ted Cruz. Who is you can?
Speaker 1 (25:42):
You can be Charene's John Mitchell. Now it's a fun
little water Gate chap for every fund. I will be
hiding Karen's secret meetings. I'm hoping for Haldeman myself. That's
the Oh, that's the guy to be.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
I want to go back for like further than that,
you know, like when students were chads and like Roosevelt
got shot five times. I can see Sharene having that
kind of energy. Sure, well, yeah, we're all in on Scharene. Yeah,
don't choose sereen A book was enough for Teddy Roosevelt people.
(26:19):
It's have changed return no jokes aside, Like I came
to America very differently from this and like, uh, I
recently became a citizen after a long time, and like
you always feel very precarious when you live here and
you're not, so I just went Like one thing that
(26:41):
I noticed was that so many of the folks down
there at one point, all of us one pot I
didn't know. We're also people who had come here themselves
and like had different stories, and we talked about Like
another thing I think is really important, actually, it's like
just because people are in a shitty situation doesn't mean
that they are not like people. Like sometimes it can
be really easy to be like bottle of water, buy
(27:01):
bottle of water, he goo, bottle of water. Chairs, Like
let's want to fucking talk to you and like how
is your day or like what's your favorite football team?
Like like that can be a really valuable way of
being like, look, I understand that the government is treating
you like shit right now, and that's not with my consent, Like.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I human connection because they aren't treated like humans. So
it's like nice to remember.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
That's like, oh, it's like yeah, totally, someone seeing me,
yes exactly, and just being like we're in community, like
we are here to do whatever we can to make
this a little bit less fucking barbaric. Like I always
think I should buy like soft toys for the kids.
I spent a lot of money on soft toys for
kids over d years. But remember one time we cleared
out at Costco in Tiuana and like had them morn
(27:49):
in the bed of a pickup truck and they were
like trying to fly out as we drove down the freeway.
It was it was a good time. But yeah, it's
I think that common humanity is super important if people
have language skills and they want to help, Like there
are always organizations to help migrants, so American Friends Service
Committee is a really good one. I don't think they
would care if you were not a person of faith.
(28:11):
I think lots of the people helping out with them
are not. They're just nice people. So there are so many.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Languages apparently that need translating, Like it's not just Spanish.
I think a lot of people assume it would just
be like I don't know Spanish, I'm not going to go.
But so many other languages that would be helpful.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, Like I speak French, and I honestly spend as
much time at the board of speaking French or Spanish.
I have like passable communication in Haitian creole, and they
can sort of if some people speak like more formal
French who are Haitian, so I can speak to them.
But yeah, I don't speak Taiji, Kolozbek, Russian or Vietnamese,
(28:47):
so like those people are. Therefore it's harder for them
to access solidarity right and to talk to people and
to be seen, Like we can try a best with
cell phone apps. The person who had been taken to
a hospital was Vietnamese and was just doing a stalwart
job of Like obviously they were to the north of
(29:09):
the border, so among the volunteers basically, and we were
using our phones to talk and they were helping us
distribute shit, right and then helping explain to the Vietnamese people, hey,
like you have to be in this line if you
want this, at this line if you want that, and
like so that was nice, and it's always like great
to see like people empowered by that process, Like they're
(29:30):
not just like asking for stuff, they're also helping get
other people stuff, and I think that that helps both parties.
So like this means of like I guess like people
call mutilated solidarity not charity, which I think that illustrates
really well. You know, like all these people are there
to be in solidarity with people who they consider to
be members of their community, not not to like gain
(29:51):
some camic reward or whatever like people, And I think
that's a really laudable thing. It's something we should all
participate in if we can stand there everyone's near the border.
But like, yeah, we can't change this that we're all
supposed to vote for Joe Biden because he wouldn't be
a piece of shit to migrants, and he's been a
complete piece of shit to migrants for the entirety of
(30:11):
his time in office, and I sincerely believe he will
be a piece of shit to migrants if he is
elected again. So you can't fucking change this by voting
for someone. I wish you could. I wish it was
that easy, but like it sadly, it requires your active participation.
And yeah, I'm just constantly impressed by people who will
(30:33):
Like the people from Free Shiit Collective, they bought their
entire family. Right I send them a message, They were like, yeah,
we're on our way, what do you need blankets? Okay,
we have like one hundred blankets and a generator, and
within an hour there's at least some of those people.
I had a warmer place to sleep right before that,
I was giving out the blankets I had for camping
(30:55):
in my truck. But I have two sleeping bags in
my truck. It's not enough. Yeah, I think that's something
we can all do in our own communities. But right now, again,
I guess Biden's administration are back on the bullshit at
the border, and it's important that people just pay attention
to it.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I guess you could write your Congress people, but they
didn't do shit last time, they won't do shit this time.
But people can show sort of directing any way, or
lend their language skills. I think now it's a really
important time to do that.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, it's SIT's frustrating because the border in general just
becomes like a political talking point, right, like Biden uses
it for his benefit and then it's like I'll pick
it up when I need it again. Yeah, whatever it is,
it's pretty infuriating.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
It's fucking not. Yeah, it's incredibly infuriating for me to
see like a guarantee you out was stand there yesterday
when no other media folks will be there today. Folks
who haven't been there since May will roll up again, right,
who haven't covered the border, who don't have a working
knowledge of like what's happened since Title forty two, which
is apprehensions have dropped, by the way, like travel across
(32:03):
the border has got a lot lower since Title forty two,
which is what we were told that to opposite of
what every off ed told us was going to happen,
because people maybe should not be ranting about the border
when they live in DC or New York. But yeah,
Biden will come back to the border next time he
gets attacked by Republicans on boarder stuff, and until then,
(32:24):
like these people will be treated as if they're numbers
or if they don't matter, and like each of them
has a story and a reason for being here, and
they're not just numbers. They're all people. And every time
someone dies trying to come to its country to be safe,
it's a tragedy, and it's a preventable tragedy, and it's
one that the Democrats are justice complicit as Republicans in Yeah,
(32:49):
you know, we've spoken a lot about groups you can
you can go to, right, Like we spoke about border Kindness,
we spoke about Borderlands Release Relief Collective. Like there are
in one ways to help or detail them all now.
But yeah, it's something that like we can't erase the
Like I feel genuinely ashamed every time I'm down there,
(33:10):
you know, to be American now. But it's just hard
when people are like, hey, what's going to happen, you
have to be like, well, we don't know, but like
you might be separated from your family, you might be detained.
They're probably going to take most of your clothes. They
might take your belt off. You know, you can wear
one jacket, one shirt, your pants, and your shoes. They
might take your shoelaces and venues go into the fucking
(33:31):
abyss of processing. Right, there might be years till you
get your core date and you might not have a
right to work until then. But it might cost you
tang twelve grand to get a lawyer to represent you.
How do you get that money? Fucked you? I know,
you know, And yeah it's deep. I feel really ashamed,
but yeah, all we can do is just try and
help however we can. Yeah, yeah, all right, Yeah, sorry
(33:56):
that was really depressing, was that? No, No, it's good.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
I really admire that instead of like kind of wallowing
in the shame, You're like, I actually want to do
something and it's okay that I feel shame. That's valid.
It's both things can be true. I can be helpful
and I can also have perspective on it.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
So yeah, yeah, it helps to help helps me. It
helps other people to feel active, not like acted upon.
And that's why folks on who are migrants want to
also participate in migrant aid, right, like even folks whore
in between the war right now, like organizing that the
phone charging queue, because it helps to not just feel
acted upon and remove the agency. Yeah, so yeah, do
(34:39):
you mutual aid if you can?
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Be nice, Yeah, be nice.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Box the border patrol. H I think that that more
or less covers it.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's our message. That Sharine's
presidential slogan.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yes, that's my campaign. I'll work on that, okay.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Yeah. It could happen here as a production of cool
Zone Media.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can
find sources for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at
coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
With white with.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello everyone. It's me James and I'm joined by Scharen
and Robert. Today we're going to be talking about the border,
which is where the audio you heard at the start
was recorded yesterday. Hi Serene and Robert.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Hi James.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello James, thank you, Robert, Thank you Serene. It's lovely
to have this form on introduction time. Okay. So yeah,
we're gathered here to go to talk about the border.
And the reason we are talking about the board it
is because border patrol are doing their thing, the thing
that they like to do tiemingly like on a quarterly
basis actually exactly three months after the last time, which
(00:53):
is to hold people out in the open in between
the two board defenses in Santi Sego, just about fifteen
minutes south of where I live. The it's probably worth
grounding this discussion in the various claims and counterclaims. So
there are about two hundred people in between the two
boarder fences right now. People I spoke to were from Azerbijan,
(01:17):
Turkmenistan and Zbekistan, Turkey, China, Vietnam, Hondoors, Guatemala. Yeah. Like
the reason that sometimes these lists of people sound like,
you know, you're singing Washington bullets. Is because these are
all countries that we have destabilized in one way or another,
saying we qua the United States, not we as CAOL
(01:38):
zone media, we were spire to de stabilized regimes.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
We've only destabilized two or three countries.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, and we're proud of it. Yeah we don't, Yeah,
we don't. Uh, we don't hide it.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
But yeah, we took our shot at Canada, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, yeah, Well we've taken a good couple of swings
in a tamadoor. I think we land some punches, but
who knows, time will tell. So yeah, it's people from
like I think often the migration is constructed as quite
unquote Mexican, which is definitely not the case. I spoke
to one family from Mexico yesterday. But like, even if
you look at border patrol statistics, about four thousand out
(02:17):
of fifteen thousand people apprehended in the San Diego sector
in July of this year of Mexican nationality.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
That's lawer than I would assume to be honest.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, I mean it's just a number of things, right, Like,
it's these countries, Like climate change is definitely getting worse,
so migration is happening from there. I see a lot
of people from Vietnam. I don't have the language skills
to speak to them in depth, like I was speaking
to someone when We'll get onto this through Google Translate
(02:46):
from Vietnam. But hard to conduct a full interview, especially
when folks are guarding their phone charge, which they are
because exactly the same as last time, they need the
phone to do CBP one. They need the phone to
interact with their families, let them know they're safe. Some
of their families, I guess don't know that they're traveling.
I was helping people charge phones yesterday. So we can talk.
(03:09):
Let's talk a little bit about mutual aid response, and
then we'll get onto the border patrol, you know. So
there are two groups down there right now, and I
think it's very impressive the services they're able to provide
because because Border Patrol claim these people are not detained,
that means that they are therefore not obliged to provide
any services to them. Right So that would mean they
(03:29):
don't have to give them water, they don't have to
give them food, they don't have to give them shelter
or like salitation, which salitation is the one that's really
hard to cover because everything has to go through a
fist sized gap in the fence. So that's still like
an unmet need. But these two groups free Ship Collective,
(03:50):
they're free Ship pebe on Twitter, and also American Friends
Service Committee. I've spoken about them before. They're a Quaker
group that they're really great like in terms of turning
up and helping people who need help. They're constantly there
and they they're a good place to send your money
even if you're not a Quaker yourself, like check out
(04:10):
the Twitter. Like Actually, they're probably aligned with a lot
of people who listened to show on a lot of things.
I think their prison abolitionists. So those two groups were
there and they would At first there was myself, one
person from American French Service Committee and two older volunteers
who would come in about one hundred and fifty to
two hundred people. So most of the ideas kind of
(04:31):
helped because I think in that situation is more important
to help than necessarily like get the best audio for
your podcast. So we handed out water, handed out food,
handed out those emergency survival blankets, and it was about
all we had at first, some like medical stuff people
had medical and a bit later free ship people came
(04:52):
and Xavier came. I'm not sure what Zavier's org is,
but I will tweet it when I find it. I'll
put it in the show notes to He's great. I've
spoken at his events before that he holds down by
the Border. We had a border media round table. He
turned up with a massive generator, so that was great.
We're able to charge phones. And what's really I think
like notable is how much the people in between the
(05:15):
fences are able to participate in distribution of goods and
helping each other. So like they have a person who
volunteers to be the coordinator for the water distribution, and
one who volunteers to coordinate for the organizing people into
lines and making sure people don't cut the line right,
and then one person who was the phone captain who
(05:36):
was doing like an incredible job of they'd get the
cell phone right right the name of the person and
then sign them a number in the line, and that
person would also have that name and number written on
their hand, and it's written in duct tape that's taped
to them and tape to the phone. And then when
their turn to charge comes, he would shout the name
of the number. They would come from wherever they were
in between the walls. They'd come and we would charge
(05:58):
the phone, and then once they've got above fifty sixty percent,
we'd switch it out and he'd call them again and
they come get their phone. So lots of that is
stuff that was learned in May and has been like
implemented again much more like. It's less chaotic than it
was before, and fewer people are able to provide better help,
which is really good that it doesn't mean that those
people don't need like donations, because they do. I know,
(06:20):
the free ship people came with dozens of blankets, but
there weren't enough blankets for everybody, so we were prioritizing
families with children and pregnant women to have a blanket.
It was cold yesterday, it was raining, and people didn't
have anything to shelter under. There were a few tarts,
but not very many, and it's a pretty like there
were very young babies there. Right, it's a pretty difficult
(06:42):
place to sleep with Like, people were very keen to
get their hands on cardboard boxes to lie down on
to sleep. That gives you a sense of how kind
of underserved they are. There's obviously no toilet facilities because
you're just in a dusty kind of desert area by
the border. So if people are familiar with Lass Americas,
(07:03):
the Discount Moll, we're like maybe a mile west of
there along the dirt road, and it's just kind of
dusty field, so very rocky, very difficult people to sleep,
very exposed to the elements. Right, it was hot today,
like I was out earlier, and it's ninety one, so
they won't be having any shade today. They didn't have
(07:23):
any shelter from the rain or al ways to keep
warm last night. They're not allowed to start fires either,
even if they have the means to do so. So
the situation of these people, I think is something worth
discussing because it's not exactly super duper clear what role
this plays in the immigration process. And there were a
(07:45):
couple of examples to illustrate that. So I was able
to talk to one person. They presented themselves from like
they came into the parking lot walking and they looked
looked very concerned, and so I approached him as, hey,
do you need anything, can we help few? And they
had experienced some kind of medical condition and been taken
(08:06):
to hospital, which Customs and Border Protection will do that, right, Like,
if those people are there and they're having an emergency,
they'll open the gate, take that person out and transport
them to hospital somewhere in San Diego. That person had
then been released from hospital to a taxi, which hospitals
in San Diego have a habit of doing this. They'll
(08:27):
dump homeless people. Right If you anyone in San Diego
will have seen this, you'll be familiar with that. People
dumped out of hospital in Hillcrest wearing a hospital gown
and maybe having very little other possessions. It's every single
day this happens. Unfortunately, people have passed away on being
released by the hospital before in Hillcrest. So they release
(08:50):
these folks and I guess they often give them a
bus pass or they pay for a taxi. In this case,
they paid for this person's taxi. They asked for a
taxi to the border. The command of English was pretty limited.
They asked for attacks to the border. They were taken
to like the formal border crossing the Sanisudur, which is
a mile and a half east of where we were.
And then they walked down the dirt road to where
(09:11):
we were. But obviously because there was a fence in
between US and the people being detained, then they weren't
able to access that area, right, So that leaves them
in a conundrum, right that they're now in the United
States without without any status they were able to want
(09:32):
Bodiptroll agent advise them to return to Mexico. Obviously, that
would constitute an entry to Mexico in between portsland entry,
where you'd be illegally entering Mexico. It's not bot of
Patrol's job to enforce Mexican laws. But that person was
in the United States and presented a claim for asylum.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
They had a cell phone and they were using Google Translate,
and they literally I could see it. It was like,
I'm afraid to go back to my country, afraid I
will be her if I go back there, which is
like a pretty textbook asylum claim. I would like to
claim asylum right. And on making that claim, a Border
(10:10):
Patrol agent returned them to the area in between the fences, right,
which would suggest that this is a holding facility to
border patrol for people. I just want to read the
statement that Border Patrol made to me this morning this
was like a couple of hours one recording this, recording
this on Tuesday. CBP has built and retrofited facilities along
(10:33):
the Southwest border to enhance our capabilities in this regard.
CBP has also significantly increased the number of medical personnel
along the Southwest border and those providing other wrap around services,
all to better support ensuring getting people appropriate care as
quickly as possible. Border Patrol has prioritized the quick transportation
of migrants encountered in this environment, which is partially dangerous,
(10:54):
particularly dangerous uring current weather conditions, to border patrol facilities
where individuals can see medical care, food, and water. It
is important to note that migrants who are between the
border barriers are not in border patrol custody and are
at liberty to return to Mexico if they desire. We
have some audio of border patrol addressing the migrazine between
defenses that Daniald's going to drop in right after this person.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
You have a Monday, Just ghost it outast it out.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
We take as soon as we can. Listen, there's too
many of you.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
You can't do this fast.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Why as you here and talk.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
To you the last time we have to take people.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
We're not designed to take hundreds of people. We're working
as fast as we can be patient.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I can tell you this. They're shouting at them, they're
shouting at them in English. They're not really giving any case.
So what the people obviously have questions, right they've entered,
Lots of them have been given bracelets when he's talking
about the bracelets, and people will have heard that in
the intro to that they were taking people with white bracelets.
Those have a day, right the day that you entered,
(12:10):
so like it might say Monday or Sunday or today.
Obviously it's Tuesday, so they would get a bracelet which
has a color and a day, and they process people
in order of priority. The people who arrived on Monday
first seale process on accompanied minors. I didn't see any obviously,
some eighteen year old people. It could be hard to
(12:32):
tell how exactly hold they are, but seventeen whatever, But
I didn't see any people that young on their own.
After that, they will process single mothers with children sor
a few of those, quite a few of those. After that,
they will process like a family, which they defined to
consist of a man or woman and children. After that
(12:53):
they will process men on their own. I guess women
on their own, then men on their own. They had
initially separate people. They had people just like they had
last time, right in like families and those with children,
and then single men were somewhere else. But it seemed
like people were able to come to travel in between
the fences down to the place where I was, because
that was the only place that they were able to
(13:13):
access services, right And I guess the claim of border
patrollers that these people could go back to Mexico. I'm
not sure how because obviously that they're in between these
thirty foot walls right right, you could.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Go around the end.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
That's how people come north. But that's quite a hike,
especially if you haven't got any water and food and stuff.
So yeah, it's this is what they've claimed. It's worth
noting that like Border Patrol, a number of representative from
the Hispanic Caucus like requested Border Patrol clarify this after
(13:50):
what happened in May, and their letter they noted that
the conditions violate agency guidelines for detention, which they do,
and that Boderpatol isn't supposed to hold people in his
own custody for more than seventy two hours, which some
people were held for longer than that in May, and
CBP responded, I'll just read it out. The individuals in
question had not made contact with US Border Patrol personnel
and were not constrained from further movement. At the time
(14:13):
of this incident, the US Border Patrol San Diego sector
facilities were experiencing capacity issues and some transportation challenges which
have since been remediated. Border Patrol agents encountered and apprehended
these migrants as soon as there's operationally feasible to do so. Again,
like they were dropped off in May by Border Patrol
vehicles in the place where they were being detained, And
(14:34):
it's simply not factually correct to suggest that they had
not come into contact with Border Patrol. I have video
of it. I've published video over on Twitter, We've used
audio of it on the podcast. I think it's just
not true. So Border Patrol essentially are claiming that this
isn't happening when it continues to happen, right, and this
(14:57):
time they've taken that to it's like they've al readly
doubled down on that status. I guess because they're not
providing any services, which is probably a good time for
us to hear from some products and services. Oh yeah,
fucking magic, Look at that taking a victory lap. I'm
(15:17):
quitting now never podcast again. I enjoy these adverts. Yeah
it's me, I'm back. Everyone else is still here too.
Now we're talking about the mutual eight response to what's
(15:38):
happening at their border, right And as I said, a
border patrol aren't providing anything. And as I said, at
least when I left, I left after it got dark,
quite a long time after it got dark last night.
It was there for probably seven six or seven hours,
and I saw more and more people arriving in that time,
and it was a really wide dispersed group of people.
Like I would say, maybe the majority were Spanish speaking,
(16:01):
but a lot of people with Vietnamese. I was speaking
to some Francophone African people at various nationalities right before
I left, Like I said, lots of people from Tadjikustan, Azbekistan,
as Abijan, places like that. Those people were pretty prominent.
So it's fairly hard for volunteers to communicate with all
of them, and they don't have any information right about
(16:23):
what's happening to them. Can they expect to be separated.
In some cases they can. Can they expect how long
can they expect to be there? We don't really know.
I heard one bord of patrol agents saying that some
of the people who arrived on Monday could expect to
be taken out maybe by Wednesday, So that's at least
two hours two days, right, So all of the services
(16:45):
they're being provided, they're being provided through mutual aid right now,
which is exactly the same thing that happened last time.
Right Sometimes, Border Patrol last time gave them a granola bar.
We haven't come back with their granola bars this time.
And I think it's really worth us like taking a
moment to consider the scale of what like two hundred
(17:07):
people is not that many people, but it was more
than two thousand people in May, and that was provided
for by mutual aid. And I think it's a really
good like getting off point for maybe us to have
a little talk here about how we do mutual aid,
because the only thing that enabled like little babies to
have like a blanket is someone messaging someone else on
(17:31):
signal and being like, hey, this is happening again. Do
you have stuff? Can you come down and someone who
I don't know, weeks ago, I guess was like, oh,
these people are doing nice things, let me send them
some money, because without that, those people would just be
sleeping in the in the in the dust. I think
it's really it's it's admirable, I think, and it's something
that like, I don't know how to say this, that
(17:55):
we should take into consideration when we're discussing things like
religion and then like doing this course, and like it
could be really easy to get like into like full
readit atheist mode. I'm not a person who believes in
religion particularly, but like, the only people who are helping
at some point are people who are at least part
(18:16):
of religious organizations.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Look, I think that the perfectly consistent stance to have
is that like, if someone is showing up and providing
people with necessary assistance and not not asking for anything
in return, including the ability to prostolytize, then I don't
give a shit what yeh, right, Like, I don't care
(18:39):
if they're from a church. I don't care if it's
like you know, some wee like as long as they
are showing up and helping people in desperate need and
not demanding some sort of something from them, including like
you know, them listen to a spiel. I don't really
you know, it could be a church, who gives a fuck, right, like,
I'm glad they're there, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Totally, it could be church. There were mosques there last time.
I'm sure that they were like synagogues.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
And yeah, fucking kudos to those people, right, yeah, you know,
like that's good, glad they're there.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, those Yeah, those people are doing anarkids and do,
even if they wouldn't call it that or whatever. Like,
you know, the more we can create networks that look
after each other without trying to control each other, then
the better of a place we make the world. And
that's what those people are doing, and we should all
celebrate that and support them however we can. I guess.
(19:30):
So as of today, there are still people there, and
they still seem to be putting people in there. I
think it's not supposed to be too hot this week,
like we had triple digit days last week. I think
over the weekend was pretty hot. Yeah, it was. It
was very hot on the weekend. So, like, the possibility
for this to get much worse is still there, right,
(19:53):
The possibility for people to get the person I spoke
to who had to go to hospital had become deep hydrated,
Like that's how they needed because you don't when people
were come when we first at least when I first
got there, people were very hungry and very thirsty and
like really desperate for a drink of water because often
they'd come from some of those other holding areas and
(20:15):
like walked down because this was the only place where
they could access stuff. So like, yeah, I guess the
potential for this to turn into something as sad and
completely unnecessary as what happened in May is there again.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, so you mentioned that there's no shade, like no
shade in areas, so when it's triple digits, like there
are kids and babies and everyone's outside, Yes, that is
just I mean, it's terrible regardless, but like that in particular,
that's like brutal.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, I mean, I think I've shared these pities with
you guys before, but like in Hakumber in May, people
were making little kind of a frames and lean to's
and out of ostillos and cacti and stuff, just trying
to get out because it was very hot then out there.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Even the photos you sat recently, there's like a there's
a photo you sat with the child's hand, like coming
out of the the fence that.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
It made me emotional. Yeah, it makes me emotional, honestly.
Like I think I've said this before, like in interviews,
and I would an interview with Rory Pecktreust about this,
but like I would rather go somewhere dangerous and have
dangerous things happen then see a little kid have to
be cold, not be able to help them, or like
just be sad, like it's not a funny place for children,
(21:34):
And that fucks me up in a way that like
that's yeah, I would.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I would so much rather be like physically uncomfortable or
in danger than like be in a perfectly safe place
where you're watching kids suffer.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Like that's the rough thing.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I've been to a lot of refugee camps, and it's
always like, you know, it's weird because I've also seen
a lot of kids like in active combat zones And
don't take the wrong thing out of this, but like
the kids who have been stuck in a camp with
like no chance of ever getting out seem like more
(22:12):
depressed in a lot of ways than the kids who
every day, you know, they're they're in you know, part
of the city, even though like the city is a
dangerous place to be. They're they're moving around, they're usually
doing stuff. Obviously, it's a much more worse situation in
a lot of ways. But like the degree to which
being in this limbo messes with their heads and depresses
(22:35):
them and traumatizes them is And again I'm not saying
like it's better for kids to be in an act
of war zone, but like that is trauma as well,
and I think in a lot of ways an equivalent trauma.
Even though the danger to their body is less, the
trauma they face being stuck in a place and not
having any idea what the future is and not having
(22:57):
any ability to influence it. Really right being you know,
these kids up at this fence are totally they have
no control over their future or their lives.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Really, I think that's the really like it strips people
of their agency, which is a really degrading thing to do. Right,
you're forcing these people they can do everything right that
(23:27):
that person presented a perfect affirmative asylum claim, you know,
and yeah, it doesn't matter. And I think that's very hard,
especially I imagine it's very difficult. I'm not a parent,
but I imagine that, Like if you are a parent, God, yeah,
you know, you just want your kids to have a
safe place to grow up. And like, I don't know.
(23:47):
It's the first time I ever realized that I was
having a trauma response, and it was not a good one.
Was in twenty eighteen with the migrant caravan, when like
I had been there was one little child where I
speak about a lot, but she was obsessed with my hair.
If people haven't seen, paces of me have long hair,
and like wanted to braid my hair every time I
(24:07):
went there. And so she'd come and she'd sit on
my shoulders and I would just do shit, and she
would braid my hair while I was, you know, handing
out water bottles or you know, talking to people, doing
what I could do. And like, I saw that girl
every day for months, right, And then I remember once
coming back to a Christmas party and just wanting to
fucking scream at everyone. It's a juxtaposition from being seeing
(24:29):
this little kid like deprived of so many things that
chord should have, warmth and shelter and good food and
a safe place to be, and then going home, you know,
twenty minute drive across the border, drive home and see
people just like going about their lives. It's it's a
really challenging duality. We can't stop it, right, Like it's
(24:52):
not in our power to stop this, but like it
is in our power. One of the things I hear
people being like, it's like welcome to America. Like it's
pretty fucked up way to be welcome to America, right,
But like, like, I'm an immigrant. My my arrival here
was very different, and like Sharene, you came here when
you were younger, right, I was.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I didn't immigrate myself. I was born here a month old,
moved back from my parents, immigrated.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah so you can be president, that's important.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Oh yes, I can be president.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
You can be president, but not James, which is which
is good? Which is good? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, in general that is my goal for you, James. Yeah,
I can see. I'd really crush it in that round.
I do love a good law. Yeah yeah, yeah, Cherine
can take out Ted Cruz. Who is you can?
Speaker 1 (25:42):
You can be Charene's John Mitchell. Now it's a fun
little water Gate chap for every fund. I will be
hiding Karen's secret meetings. I'm hoping for Haldeman myself. That's
the Oh, that's the guy to be.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
I want to go back for like further than that,
you know, like when students were chads and like Roosevelt
got shot five times. I can see Sharene having that
kind of energy. Sure, well, yeah, we're all in on Scharene. Yeah,
don't choose sereen A book was enough for Teddy Roosevelt people.
(26:19):
It's have changed return no jokes aside, Like I came
to America very differently from this and like, uh, I
recently became a citizen after a long time, and like
you always feel very precarious when you live here and
you're not, so I just went Like one thing that
(26:41):
I noticed was that so many of the folks down
there at one point, all of us one pot I
didn't know. We're also people who had come here themselves
and like had different stories, and we talked about Like
another thing I think is really important, actually, it's like
just because people are in a shitty situation doesn't mean
that they are not like people. Like sometimes it can
be really easy to be like bottle of water, buy
(27:01):
bottle of water, he goo, bottle of water. Chairs, Like
let's want to fucking talk to you and like how
is your day or like what's your favorite football team?
Like like that can be a really valuable way of
being like, look, I understand that the government is treating
you like shit right now, and that's not with my consent, Like.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I human connection because they aren't treated like humans. So
it's like nice to remember.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
That's like, oh, it's like yeah, totally, someone seeing me,
yes exactly, and just being like we're in community, like
we are here to do whatever we can to make
this a little bit less fucking barbaric. Like I always
think I should buy like soft toys for the kids.
I spent a lot of money on soft toys for
kids over d years. But remember one time we cleared
out at Costco in Tiuana and like had them morn
(27:49):
in the bed of a pickup truck and they were
like trying to fly out as we drove down the freeway.
It was it was a good time. But yeah, it's
I think that common humanity is super important if people
have language skills and they want to help, Like there
are always organizations to help migrants, so American Friends Service
Committee is a really good one. I don't think they
would care if you were not a person of faith.
(28:11):
I think lots of the people helping out with them
are not. They're just nice people. So there are so many.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Languages apparently that need translating, Like it's not just Spanish.
I think a lot of people assume it would just
be like I don't know Spanish, I'm not going to go.
But so many other languages that would be helpful.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, Like I speak French, and I honestly spend as
much time at the board of speaking French or Spanish.
I have like passable communication in Haitian creole, and they
can sort of if some people speak like more formal
French who are Haitian, so I can speak to them.
But yeah, I don't speak Taiji, Kolozbek, Russian or Vietnamese,
(28:47):
so like those people are. Therefore it's harder for them
to access solidarity right and to talk to people and
to be seen, Like we can try a best with
cell phone apps. The person who had been taken to
a hospital was Vietnamese and was just doing a stalwart
job of Like obviously they were to the north of
(29:09):
the border, so among the volunteers basically, and we were
using our phones to talk and they were helping us
distribute shit, right and then helping explain to the Vietnamese people, hey,
like you have to be in this line if you
want this, at this line if you want that, and
like so that was nice, and it's always like great
to see like people empowered by that process, Like they're
(29:30):
not just like asking for stuff, they're also helping get
other people stuff, and I think that that helps both parties.
So like this means of like I guess like people
call mutilated solidarity not charity, which I think that illustrates
really well. You know, like all these people are there
to be in solidarity with people who they consider to
be members of their community, not not to like gain
(29:51):
some camic reward or whatever like people, And I think
that's a really laudable thing. It's something we should all
participate in if we can stand there everyone's near the border.
But like, yeah, we can't change this that we're all
supposed to vote for Joe Biden because he wouldn't be
a piece of shit to migrants, and he's been a
complete piece of shit to migrants for the entirety of
(30:11):
his time in office, and I sincerely believe he will
be a piece of shit to migrants if he is
elected again. So you can't fucking change this by voting
for someone. I wish you could. I wish it was
that easy, but like it sadly, it requires your active participation.
And yeah, I'm just constantly impressed by people who will
(30:33):
Like the people from Free Shiit Collective, they bought their
entire family. Right I send them a message, They were like, yeah,
we're on our way, what do you need blankets? Okay,
we have like one hundred blankets and a generator, and
within an hour there's at least some of those people.
I had a warmer place to sleep right before that,
I was giving out the blankets I had for camping
(30:55):
in my truck. But I have two sleeping bags in
my truck. It's not enough. Yeah, I think that's something
we can all do in our own communities. But right now, again,
I guess Biden's administration are back on the bullshit at
the border, and it's important that people just pay attention
to it.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I guess you could write your Congress people, but they
didn't do shit last time, they won't do shit this time.
But people can show sort of directing any way, or
lend their language skills. I think now it's a really
important time to do that.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, it's SIT's frustrating because the border in general just
becomes like a political talking point, right, like Biden uses
it for his benefit and then it's like I'll pick
it up when I need it again. Yeah, whatever it is,
it's pretty infuriating.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
It's fucking not. Yeah, it's incredibly infuriating for me to
see like a guarantee you out was stand there yesterday
when no other media folks will be there today. Folks
who haven't been there since May will roll up again, right,
who haven't covered the border, who don't have a working
knowledge of like what's happened since Title forty two, which
is apprehensions have dropped, by the way, like travel across
(32:03):
the border has got a lot lower since Title forty two,
which is what we were told that to opposite of
what every off ed told us was going to happen,
because people maybe should not be ranting about the border
when they live in DC or New York. But yeah,
Biden will come back to the border next time he
gets attacked by Republicans on boarder stuff, and until then,
(32:24):
like these people will be treated as if they're numbers
or if they don't matter, and like each of them
has a story and a reason for being here, and
they're not just numbers. They're all people. And every time
someone dies trying to come to its country to be safe,
it's a tragedy, and it's a preventable tragedy, and it's
one that the Democrats are justice complicit as Republicans in Yeah,
(32:49):
you know, we've spoken a lot about groups you can
you can go to, right, Like we spoke about border Kindness,
we spoke about Borderlands Release Relief Collective. Like there are
in one ways to help or detail them all now.
But yeah, it's something that like we can't erase the
Like I feel genuinely ashamed every time I'm down there,
(33:10):
you know, to be American now. But it's just hard
when people are like, hey, what's going to happen, you
have to be like, well, we don't know, but like
you might be separated from your family, you might be detained.
They're probably going to take most of your clothes. They
might take your belt off. You know, you can wear
one jacket, one shirt, your pants, and your shoes. They
might take your shoelaces and venues go into the fucking
(33:31):
abyss of processing. Right, there might be years till you
get your core date and you might not have a
right to work until then. But it might cost you
tang twelve grand to get a lawyer to represent you.
How do you get that money? Fucked you? I know,
you know, And yeah it's deep. I feel really ashamed,
but yeah, all we can do is just try and
help however we can. Yeah, yeah, all right, Yeah, sorry
(33:56):
that was really depressing, was that? No, No, it's good.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
I really admire that instead of like kind of wallowing
in the shame, You're like, I actually want to do
something and it's okay that I feel shame. That's valid.
It's both things can be true. I can be helpful
and I can also have perspective on it.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
So yeah, yeah, it helps to help helps me. It
helps other people to feel active, not like acted upon.
And that's why folks on who are migrants want to
also participate in migrant aid, right, like even folks whore
in between the war right now, like organizing that the
phone charging queue, because it helps to not just feel
acted upon and remove the agency. Yeah, so yeah, do
(34:39):
you mutual aid if you can?
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Be nice, Yeah, be nice.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Box the border patrol. H I think that that more
or less covers it.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's our message. That Sharine's
presidential slogan.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yes, that's my campaign. I'll work on that, okay.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Yeah. It could happen here as a production of cool
Zone Media.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can
find sources for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at
coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
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Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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