February 16, 2024 • 39 mins
Matt Lieb is back with Shereen to continue his series about Hasbara.
Recorded January 30th, 2024
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hey everyone, welcome to it could happen here. I am
your guest host, Matt Leeb back again with sharene Unas.
What's up, Cheren?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Nothing? This?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is this? Yeah? This is what's y?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
No.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I happy to be happy to be back. Hopefully you
guys listen to part one already of Matt. Yeah, really
cool little series we got going on here. But if
you haven't listened to that first, and then we're continuing
this Hasbara, this Hasbara journey.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, this Hasbara train stops for no man uh. Yeah,
So this is part two of this series about Hasbara
once again. Hesbara is basically just means to explain, and
we're talking about Israeli propaganda and beyond not just propaganda,
but so much more.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We're going to talk a little bit about the myths
about Israel that have kind of like gained a foothold
in Western public consciousness to a degree that it's like
not just a foothold, but it's just kind of things
that we commonly think are facts. So like if you
grew up in Zionism, which is like if you don't know,
(01:21):
that's a political ideology that birth the state of Israel,
you have probably heard a lot of your teachers, your rabbis,
your friends, your family, your Israeli friends, your Israeli family
talking about how it's your responsibility to explain Israel to
the people, and growing up, you don't actually know that
what you're doing is propaganda, like you think you're just
(01:45):
you know that you know more than most people because
everyone else is getting their information from anti Semites. You know,
you think like you've got the real scoop and that
most people are just you know, born ignorance and biased
against Jews. And you don't have to be Jewish to
(02:06):
have been exposed to espara. Chances are that if you
grew up in the West, you probably hold several views
about Israel that are the result of decades long pr campaigns.
So what I'm gonna do now is a lightning round
of myth busting. This is just like real quick getting
into some of the I don't know, some of the
(02:27):
most pervasive things that I think each one could be
an entire episode. But you know, listen, this is your guys,
pot this isn't my podcast. I can't just take it
away from you. So I'm just gonna do a lightning
round with you are you ready.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Sharen, oh Born Ready, Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Okay. Israel is not a land without a people for
a people without land. Okay, there were people there. I
don't know if you know that Palestinians were there and
seven hundred and fifty thousand were expelled innineteen forty eight.
This whole conflict has not been going on for hundreds
of years. It is very very modern, and it has
(03:07):
nothing to do with an ancient religious rivalry. So when
someone says, oh, they've been killing each other for thousands
of yet, no, no, not even a little no, that
is not a thing. Israel quote lives in a tough
neighborhood and it must act tough to survive. That is
just regular ass racism and orientalism, the idea that they
(03:31):
just you know, you have to be tough, you know,
I mean, listen, A tough neighborhood is very much that
is translated for an American, a white American audience. You
know what I mean. What is a tough neighborhood. It's
one with a lot of people of color. Here's another one.
There are plenty of Arab states. Why can't they just
(03:51):
go there again? This is a weird racist, dehumanizing thing
to tell someone whose house you just bulldozed, like, you know,
whenever you see them, like doing a big zoom ount
where they go, like there's only one Jewish state and
there's all these Arab states. You know, it's like no, no, no, personally,
what happened here, don't don't you know? It's like you
(04:14):
guy had house, Army took house, moved him to other area.
That is wrong, period. You can't just say go to
another Arab country. That's that's just racism. Here's another one.
It's too complicated. No, it is not. Switch the roles
(04:36):
in your head. Use your brain for a second. Switch
the roles of Jews and Palestinians in your head, and
you'll have an easier time condemning the side that has
powerful government and army whose crimes include genocide, apartheid, at
nick cleansing, military occupation, and religious slash, racist settler terrorism.
(04:58):
That is not complicated. If it were the Jews who
lived in Gaza getting bombed mercilessly, you would not have
a problem saying what was happening was genocide. You just
wouldn't just do that in your head. All right, here's
another one. Zionism is an indigenous rights movement. No, it's
fucking not. It's not. It is a settler colonialist movement.
(05:24):
That is something that was made explicitly clear by the
creators of modern Zionism. They not only talked about like
settling and colonizing Palestine, but they referred to the Arab
occupants there as the indigenous population. They they said indigenous.
They God, it just pisses me off. And also the
(05:45):
indigenous argument is like, way, I just hate it in
general when people go back and forth about who is
indigenous there, because it's so academic. It's like it's dehumanizing
and it obfuscates the whole thing because once again it
is just Palestinians being like I want to be able
to vote, I want to have my house back. I
(06:06):
literally have the key to my house. And yes, many
of them literally still have the keys to their house.
All right, there's there's so many there's so many goddamn
myths and propaganda that I just like that. I started
a podcast about it. That's that's that's why. But like
much of the stuff that you take for granted is
fact is not only a historic but like wildly so,
(06:30):
like the IDF outnumbered the Arab States armies during the
war forty eight. That is literally, they say the opposite
in the you know, nineteen forty eight story of the
creation of Israel. It's like un created Israel. All the
Arab states attacked. That is not actually what happened. Were
(06:50):
not just that all the Arab states attack, but that
Israel and the IDEF overcame this gigantic horde of Arab armies.
The Arab armies that were in this fight are far
fewer than have been reported. You know, they say it's
like seven, It was more like four, and only three
of them. Only one of them had any sort of
like modern military capabilities. The rest were not really armies.
(07:14):
And also they outnumbered the idea of outnumbered these armies
in nineteen sixty seven. Here's another one. Is it all
attacked first in nineteen sixty seven. It was a preemptive
strike like famously, and yet the you know, once again,
the narrative around the nineteen sixty seven Six Day War
is that, you know, is Youra all minding its own
(07:35):
business and then Egypt, along with the other Arabs, yea
evil Arabs, attacked the Israeli army struck first. That is
a fact that they talk about, and there's it's also
very very much disputed as to whether or not the
Egyptian army was going to attack at all. But you know,
(07:58):
there's no room for narrative because it, you know, fucks
up the glorious story of what became the occupation of
the West Bank and Gaza. Another one, a hud Barak
absolutely did not offer the Palestinians estate during Oslo. He
did not, nor did he offer ninety six percent of
(08:20):
the West Bank. And no, Israel did not invent the
fucking cherry tomato.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Wait they did it.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
No, they did not. There was a Haretz article about
it where they're like, no, we didn't. Why do we
keep saying this we didn't do this? Oh my god,
that's so funny. No.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I mean, so many of these talking points are some
of the main arguments that Zionis will use to be like, well,
they rejected this and this is what happened here, and
it's just like these are all incorrect. You're just like
regurgitating hsbara.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Right, And it's because that his Bara has been so
widely repeated and so often that it just kind of
sinks in Huberak did not offer them a state in
terms of what you would consider the definition definition of
a state to be, you know, and that is autonomy,
that is sovereignty. They were not offering them sovereignty. They
(09:15):
weren't offering ninety six percent of the land. They had
taken such a large percentage of the of it. And
what they were offering was in an even smaller percentage
of what they had already taken. And they the thing
they were offering again, not a state, not a state,
not a sovereign autonomous state. But you know, this is
(09:38):
a things people are willing to believe. And that's just
that's the whole thing. And again I prefer to say
it's the I am rubber, you are a glue tactic.
But you know it's the same shit. You know, Hiszbara
likes to invert the victim and the victimizer. And the
reason is simple. They know that the West is much
more willing to believe that Jews are the victims and
(10:00):
Arabs are oppressors. You know, it's just it's playing on
Western guilt and complicity in Europe during the Holocaust, and
it's playing on kind of liberal sympathies in general, and
honestly it's playing on well, who do you know if
you're in the West. If you're in the West, you
(10:21):
know some Jews, maybe you don't know Arabs. The Arabs
you do know are on TV doing bad, you know,
And that is one of the reasons for the effectiveness
of it. And in terms of like the inversion of everything,
like I think my favorite example is the is the map,
(10:43):
So like Israel will often point to a map of
the entire mina region like Middle East North Africa, and
they'll highlight all of the Arab countries in green and
Israel in blue to show that like, oh, Israel just
a tiny is It's just a tiny strip of land.
It's just a small bean, you know, surrounded by big
(11:04):
green Arab monsters and want to kill Israel like that.
Hesboro map will like often include the West Bank and
the Gaza strip in green as well, and it's a
way to frame the West Bank in Gaza is not
just being like this you know particular thing. They will
be like, no, these are part of the giant invading
(11:27):
Arab green monster, because what they're trying to do is
show the power imbalance is being completely inverted from the
reality here, you know, and anyone anyone who knows you know,
or anyone who's like watched the news, knows that it's
ridiculously false to claim that Israel is somehow the less
(11:47):
powerful agent here, you know, like you you don't have
to have a PhD to plainly see the disproportionate power imbalance.
Like there's Israel an you know, well armed military, cutting
edge technology, backing and funding of the world's most powerful state,
(12:09):
most powerful superpower, the United States, and then there is Hamas.
That doesn't make Hamas the good guys or whatever I'm saying,
it's just a clear indication of the power imbalance. You know,
there is a clear power imbalance. And I think, like
to what you were saying, the last one hundred plus
days have made it perfectly clear that for all the
(12:31):
talk of like the Arab States supporting Palestinians, like, it's
clear Israel could literally genocide Palestinians in broad daylight. In
the Arab States who do nothing. There is no giant
Arab green monster that is protecting the Palestinian like the Palestinians.
Only Arab comrades right now are the Houthis in Yemen
and has Bollah in Lebanon, both of which are non
(12:52):
government militant organizations. They are not like, it is not
the State of Yemen who is supporting the Palestinians. It's
not the State of Lebanon. It is these militant states
within states pretty much. And yeah, so it's like you
have to remember when Israel claims were just they were
a small state the size of New Jersey, you know,
(13:14):
in a tough neighborhood, and trying to make you know,
the West Bank and Gaza look like the spear's tip
of an Arab invasion. You have to remember that's not
the case. The truth of it is is like you
want to talk about how small Israel is, look how
small the Gaza strip is, and that you know alone,
(13:35):
to like look at that picture to know they are
surrounded and to see that there's no way out. That
I think changes the narrative for people. And it's a
narrative that the Israelis don't like to show. They don't
like to show the West Bank and you know, in
terms of how it is cut into cantons that are
(13:56):
basically everything is surrounded by Israeli settlements. In Israeli military.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
They took the best agricultural lands for themselves, you know
what I mean, like they really And also I think
talking about seeing the Gaza on a map, it's really
infuriating to me because I feel like in the last
couple of months more people have seen what Gaza looks
like on a map than ever before. And we see
how fucking small it is, and it's described as being
five miles at one point, like from the sea to
(14:27):
the whatever, and it's still not enough of aable, you know,
it's to the wall, literally to the wall. But like
it's just even seeing how mini school it is is
still not enough for people to be like, oh, thirty
thousand people dying in this little strip of land.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
We should think about that, like right, yeah, no, I
mean no, it's it is it is. My point is
basically to dispel the idea that, like the Hesbara has
been Israel, small there or deserves support and people standing
(15:04):
with it because small because scary, small, scary because baby puppy,
because a little little you know, please help, And that
visual is just such a it's such a gross lie.
And you know, you've anything to make the Palestinians, you know,
(15:26):
seem bigger than they are, is helpful for Israel, and
that's why they do it. You know, this is this
is a way to invert the victim and the victimizer.
And it's clear as day. Other things that are clear
as day, these products and services that we're going to
be selling. So stick around, we'll be right back and
(16:01):
we're back again. People in the West, by and large,
prefer the Israeli explanation. They're fine living in this alternate reality.
And you know, people believe it for like a variety
of reasons. Some people because they were raised to believe it,
some people because they just want to believe it. But
(16:23):
I think mostly most people in the West just don't
really care enough about like Palestinians to like look into
it like they're you know, they're just it's one of
many news stories too. I think a lot of people
it's easy to put in a box and to be honest,
you know, like wouldn't that be nice to be able
to compartmentalize like it would for me? Shit, it would
(16:46):
make me way less stressed if I could just not care.
And that's not to like call out anyone who doesn't care,
because I do think that it is absolutely human and
valid to have some things that you just don't have
emotional capacity to care about. I think my issue is
not whether or not people are like, you know, supporting
(17:11):
Palisine on their social media or whatnot. My issue is
whether or not they're just going to allow themselves to
be manipulated and then end up defending the indefensible because
of it. Like if you're if you're not going to
say nothing, don't do hasbara. That's my that's my feeling
about it. But yeah, you know, people want to put
(17:31):
in the box. Beyond that, I think there's also no
incentive for a lot of people to believe in it,
in fact, to even question who are the victims and
the victimizers in the whole Israeli Palestine quote unquote conflict,
Like it brings up a dark, twisted irony that most
people don't even want to entertain. You know, people don't
(17:51):
want to think about that stuff. And it also it
people worry about whether or not they're going to get
in trouble. And that brings me to another part of
this speech I found from the Middle East Policy Council
about haspara quote it also seeks to actively inculcate canons
(18:13):
of political correctness in domestic and foreign media and audiences
that will promote self censorship by them. It strives thereby
to decrease the willingness of audiences to consider information linked
to politically unacceptable viewpoints, individuals and groups, and to inhibit
the circulation of adverse information and social networks. It focuses
(18:36):
on limiting the receptivity of audiences to information. So hasbar
is fucking orwellian? That is? I think one of the
things that interests me about it a lot is how
Orwellian it is. You know, it goes beyond mere branding
(18:56):
when the Israeli government and pro Israel institutions like so
effectively mold the parameters of what is and isn't politically correct,
not just like in their own country, but in other
countries in the West. Like, think about the self censorship
that you the listener do around this issue. Think about
the times you wanted to say something but didn't because
(19:18):
you didn't know the exact right way to say it,
you know, like how to put it. And like think
about the times that you were reading something critical of
Israel by someone you trust and agree with, and one
sentence or one word or one turn of phrase triggered
you into questioning not just the validity of the thing
(19:39):
you were reading, but like the nature of the person
who wrote it. Think about your reaction to me saying
these things about Israel, and about how you felt when
Sharene made a lot of these points on some other
episode of this podcast, you know, like think about why
that changes things for you. And like there was a
(20:01):
time where I was also uncomfortable and like I would
only feel comfortable at hearing criticism and doing criticism of
Israel in the presence of other Jews, like it had
to be in a you know, private all Jewish Facebook
group or in like in person or through text messages.
(20:21):
Like I was so suspicious of the secret motives of
non Jewish people criticizing Israel, right, Like, like someone could
literally say something that I one hundred percent agreed with,
something that I myself had said, and then I would
still get this icky feeling from them saying it, like yeah,
but why are they saying it? Like why do you care?
(20:45):
Like that is probably Hasbara's greatest success to relegate the
issue of Palestinian human and civil rights to a niche
subject that is best talked about in private and only
by Jews. So I mean, Sharen, I know that, like
for you, you've got you get shipped for this, you
(21:08):
know I do.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Yeah, I feel like I'm done qualifying in my real
life especially and also just like in work. I'm done
qualifying whether or not something I say is or is
not whatever, because I'm if I'm even entertaining the idea
that criticizing Israel is anti Semitic, that's like feeding the fire.
I don't want to even bring that into I don't
(21:31):
want to associate that religion and the state of Israel.
And I feel like the more we have those disclaimers,
the more it's conflated. And I've definitely, I mean, I've
had a lot of anti Zionist Jewish people on this show,
almost almost to like show people that like, listen to
these people with actual experience.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yes, and that's not to it's not to you know,
say you shouldn't. And none of this is me saying like, hey,
you shouldn't listen to anti Zionist Jews or whatnot, or
just like you know, like or you shouldn't be discerning
about who you're getting your information for, because yeah, there
are Nazis who are you know, wrap themselves in the
(22:14):
guise of being anti Israel or like you know, anti
occupation or whatnot. That none of this is putting down
anyone for being discerning or being careful, but it's to
say that like Hasbara has quite an effect on even
the most conscious of people. Like making Zionism and Judaism
(22:38):
synonymous and like practically indistinguishable is like one of his
Bar's like greatest achievements, presenting Jewish support of Israel as
monolithic save for like a few cranks you know, who
are the exception that prove the rule. You know, like
non Jews don't want to criticize criticize Israel because they
don't want to upset their Jewish friends, or they don't
(23:00):
want to be labeled an anti Semite. You know. It's like,
you know, after the large public outcry about Israel's brutal
response to the Homosteris attacks of October seventh, there was
a big push among Hasbaris to frame all Jews of
the world as feeling abandoned by the left and abandoned
by their friends. You had people like Brett Gelman, Oh
(23:22):
my god, from a stranger.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Walking dumps, I hate him so much, Oh my.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
God, fucking wooly Willie over here going on Instagram being
like hey, fake woke former friends, and like he gave
a speech at the like Stand with Israel March that
was something like the Jews don't need you, like presenting
the you know, the idea of people criticizing Israel, or
(23:48):
like not wanting at the very least not wanting the
complete obliteration of Palestinians in Gaza. Framing that is like, oh, well,
all the Jews want that, you know, like his whole
thing of being like the Jews don't need you, as
if he and Israel represented all Jews, like presenting the
(24:12):
Jews of the world as a monolith, as if non
Zionist or anti Zionist Jews don't even exist, as if
we all felt this way, Like you don't want to
hate Jews, do you? Of course, if you don't, then
you gotta let Israel do whatever the hell it wants.
You know.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
I think what really bothers me about him? I mean
everything bothers me about him, But like people like him,
they'll sometimes preface what they're saying with hey, I care
about Palestinians and then continue on their their whatever tirade.
There's ionis bullshit. And it's like, it's just it really
boggles my mind because I think he thinks he's a
(24:48):
good person. I really think that he believes he's a
good person when really he's just a piece of shit
that does not see a huge group of people as
human beings.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yes, does not see people is human. And this is
something that you I think that anyone who's like a
self described liberal or leftist or whatever would be able
to easily recognize in any other situation. But it's just
it's it's it's clouded in this particular situation because of
this conflation, because you are willing to believe that Jews
(25:25):
are sort of a mono like monolithically agree with Israel.
Like they may be like a little bit like liberal
Zionists or whatnot, but mostly you know, they all love Israel,
and that is is is not true, and it's it's
a way of like more so, it feeds into the
(25:45):
continuing conflation. It feeds into this hasbara that Israel represents
all Jews, and I am telling you right now it doesn't.
And I don't think I'm telling anyone something they don't
already know. Like I think people knows Zionism is not Judaism.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
I think I've said that many times on this podcast,
trust me.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, yeah, at this point you should know.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
If you don't know that by now, please.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yes, learn it now. But like you know, Jews, both
inside and outside of Israel, have a diverse range of
views about the Israeli government. That's not to say that
Jews in Israel do not, for the most part, you know,
support the government at least or support the project of Zionism,
(26:29):
but that is to like, to me, that's to be expected.
It's to be expected that it's like fucking nine to eleven,
you know, I it'd be weird to not expect the
kind of racist jingoism that you saw like after nine
to eleven, you know, in fucking America. And I feel
like that was the majority of people. Was that kind
of like like seething anti Arab hatred. And I'm not
(26:53):
excusing it, But what I'm saying is that Jews have
a diverse range of views inside and outside of Israel,
and a lot of it includes wanting a ceasefire. And
that's why you see it in these Jewish organizations that
are trying to end the occupation. They're trying they are
openly critiquing Israel that are calling Zionism racism. You see it,
(27:15):
and you see it because they because we're honestly trying
to change this narrative. We're trying to stop people from
believing this lie that the Jewish people are synonymous with
the state of Israel.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Yeah, and I think that's why Jewish and I mean
I've said this many times as well, but Jewish Antaizionists
are like a very integral part of the movement to
liberate Palestine because it's again, it's not a Palestinian issue,
it's not a Muslim issue. It's a very human issue.
Its care about people not being fucking genocided.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yes, another thing that's pretty clear is how good the
products are that we sell here at Cool Zone. Let's
stick around, listen to these ads and we'll.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Be right back.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
And we're back. So I want to say to everyone listening,
I understand that the impulse to treat the subject of
Israel with more caution and care is rooted in respect
for the Jewish people and a desire to stand firmly
against anti Semitism, and that is that is a good thing.
(28:40):
I encourage that one you respecting Jewish people and wanting
to stand firmly against anti Semitism, wanting to fight it
with every fiber of your being. You are correct and
feeling that way, and I want to encourage it. And
I also need you to understand that it's for that
very reason that I urge people to speak out about Israel,
(29:04):
because I believe Israel and they're Hasbaris mouthpieces and the
project of political Zionism are inherently anti Semitic, and not
in like the semantic sense where it's like Arabs are
also semi So it's an argument I've heard. I'm not
talking about that. I'm talking about anti Jewish, specifically anti Jewish.
(29:27):
They actively work to create fear amongst diaspora Jews, make
us distrust our friends, our neighbors, our coworkers, our fellow Jews.
Even they tell us that, you know, they tell Jews
that unless they support Israel, they are not real Jews,
you know, or they are self hating Jews. They use
(29:50):
our past traumas against us. They re traumatize us and
manipulate us like it's classic abuser shit. It is it
is abuse, it's it's cult shit too, And they even
deal in Nazi revisionism. And it's it's so important to
point this out because you see the way that they,
(30:14):
the Israeli government uses the Nazi you know, accusation in
order to do a genocide. I mean you see constantly,
you know, in the last three four months, videos from
the IDF showing, you know, an iPad they found in
a teen girls bedroom, and you know, they open it
(30:36):
up and there's the wallpaper of the iPad is is
Hitler's face. And you look at that, and you're supposed
to go, oh my god, I can't I can't believe that,
and you forget to question what the fuck an Israeli
soldier is doing in a seventeen year old girls bedroom.
Why is it blown up? And why is why is
(30:57):
he going through her stuff like that? You you stop
looking at what is actually happening, and you start looking
at what the Hasbaris want you to look at. They
want you to see the Hitler thing and go like,
oh man, this is a whole society of little Hitlers
and and I you know, I look at that and
(31:20):
I see the way they cynically use that. While at
the same time, you know, Benjamin Netanyahoo has been pushing
this line, claiming that the Holocaust was essentially the Palestinians idea.
I mean, this is something that has been gaining more
and more traction in like sort of this new Israel Palestine,
(31:44):
like a historical narrative that's been pushed about, like you know,
the Mufti and is and and Hitler meeting up together
and being like have you ever thought about killing the Jews?
And Hitler was like I never thought about that before.
It's that's so smart. Wow, thank you. So Palestinians like
total bullshit, totally revising, like trying to do fucking like
(32:09):
I don't know apologya for literally Hitler is anti Semitic.
I don't care how you slice it. It is. And
that's something that the Israeli government deals in. They deal
in anti Semitism all the time. I mean essentially, Israel
tells the world that Jews are a third column, loyal
(32:32):
to Israel first and foremost, and tells Jews that our
home isn't our home. They say this to us, and
you know that due to our traditions and our blood,
you know, we are just merely guests in any other place.
This is like an old racist worldview. From a previous
century filled with blood and soil fascism, you know, and
(32:56):
like for me, like growing up in a mixed secular family,
you know, where I'm like, yeah, I'm like culturally Jewish
and I'm ethnically Jewish, but I'm like a blood jew essentially,
you know, like and as like the very fact of
me having Jewish blood was used by fascists to murder
us during the Holocaust. Now under Israel's Law of Return,
(33:19):
that very same Jewish blood is being used by fascists
as a passport to allow me to move to Israel
and displace an entire Palestinian family if I choose to, like,
you know, being religiously Jewish doesn't have anything to do
with my ability to do this, and my blood is
my passport to do apartheid. That's why I choose to
(33:41):
talk about this stuff. You know, if you're going to
use my blood to make me complicit in crimes, the
crimes of your state, then I'm gonna have something to
fucking say about it, you know. So my final piece
of Haspara has to do with something that has been
said over and over again by countless zionussing the current
president of these United States of America, Joe Biden.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Folks, were there no Israel, there wouldn't be a Jewish
the world was safe.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
The idea that the state of Israel alone can keep
the Jewish people safe is an insane piece of hasbara.
It is total, utter anti Semitic bullshit. A Jewish state
does not and cannot keep Jewish people safe. Tying the
fate of the Jewish state to the Jewish people is
(34:33):
a recipe for fucking disaster. The Jewish people are a
nation that has lasted thousands of years. Nations meaning like
a people with a common origin, history, language, culture, customs,
and religion and or religion. You know, it can be
any of those things. And for a long long time
we were one of many stateless nations that existed. And
(34:56):
that's not to say that you know, Israel show and
exists or whatever. But more importantly on what I'm saying
is that Jews should exist, whether they happen to be
located anywhere, like wherever they are, Jews should should exist.
The existence of the state of Israel, to me, is
(35:17):
not the question, and that is not what Israel claims
to do. They ensure They claim to ensure the existence
of the Jewish people. But they do not. All they
do is try to bolster the existence of their state.
And it should not be common thought that the existence
of Israel and the existence of Jews are the same thing.
(35:37):
As I can personally think of nothing more dangerous for
any people than to tie their entire survival to something
as impermanent as a fucking state. And that is the
truth about Israel. So you know, all this to say
(35:59):
that I'm a I guess I'm an anarchist. Now there's
one thing that you know, getting into the whole Israel
Palestine thing will do to you. It turns you very
quickly into someone who believes the existence of states is
the problem. Yeah, yeah, so that's that's me. That's how
(36:20):
I feel about stuff.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
I'm so glad you did this series for us. Where
can't people hear you do the same thing? But what
by yourself?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
With other people? You can? You can hear me? Do
you know these talking about Israel and stuff? On my
new podcast Bad Hasbara, the World's Most Moral podcast. It's
a it's a comedy podcast about hilarious Israeli propaganda that
I that I find that are you know, listeners find
(36:50):
and you know I have on my friends like Sharine,
I had you on, I had Anna on, I had
all sorts of great anti Zionist Jews and some really
amazing Palestinian guests. Or at least by the time this
comes out, I assume those episodes will have come out.
I you know, I don't know when those are coming out.
But anyways, I've only been doing the podcast for a
(37:12):
month and it's been a lot of fun. It's been cathartic,
and it's been hard, and it's definitely been you know,
like caused some stress in my life because you know,
looking for this content you have to dig through a
lot of really horrific shit. So yeah, check out bad
Asbara or you know, check me out met leave jokes
(37:34):
on Instagram, and go to a Sacramento punchline March seventeenth, Sunday,
seven pm. Me and my wife, my wife ran Jessica Ifi'rentini.
We're gonna be co headlining there, so get your tickets now.
Link in the notes.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yay, No, thank you so much. I really enjoy your podcast,
the most sporal podcast I would.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Say in the world. Sure, thank you for you know,
give me the opportunity to talk about this and you know,
I I promise you that the show, The Badass Bar
Show is funny. I swear to god, it's funny.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
It's very cathartic. You are you're correct in that. It's
very cathartic to just like event with your friends and
people think the same things as you, especially if you're
surrounded by someone or people that are kind of.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Purposely ignorant or whatever.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
So, yeah, when you're surrounded by people who don't want
to either don't want to engage with this at all,
or I'm mad at you for even partially engaging with it,
it's nice to find the people that you know in
love and like to joke around with and be like,
we're we're not crazy, right exactly, and then we go, yeah,
(38:51):
we're not, and then we have a good time. Yeah,
check that out, and thank you, and thank you to
everyone at cool Zon Media.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yay.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Yeah, go follow Matt, go see me in Matt and
and his uh my crush his wife, don't tell her,
And yeah, they're they're really doing the work. And I
really appreciate both of you guys just being really outspoken always,
and so yeah, follow their lead. Keep talking about Palestine.
(39:17):
There's still a fucking genocide happening, and that's the episode.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
All right, bye everyone.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Hie Pree Palestine pre Palestine.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated
monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hey everyone, welcome to it could happen here. I am
your guest host, Matt Leeb back again with sharene Unas.
What's up, Cheren?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Nothing? This?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is this? Yeah? This is what's y?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
No.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I happy to be happy to be back. Hopefully you
guys listen to part one already of Matt. Yeah, really
cool little series we got going on here. But if
you haven't listened to that first, and then we're continuing
this Hasbara, this Hasbara journey.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, this Hasbara train stops for no man uh. Yeah,
So this is part two of this series about Hasbara
once again. Hesbara is basically just means to explain, and
we're talking about Israeli propaganda and beyond not just propaganda,
but so much more.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We're going to talk a little bit about the myths
about Israel that have kind of like gained a foothold
in Western public consciousness to a degree that it's like
not just a foothold, but it's just kind of things
that we commonly think are facts. So like if you
grew up in Zionism, which is like if you don't know,
(01:21):
that's a political ideology that birth the state of Israel,
you have probably heard a lot of your teachers, your rabbis,
your friends, your family, your Israeli friends, your Israeli family
talking about how it's your responsibility to explain Israel to
the people, and growing up, you don't actually know that
what you're doing is propaganda, like you think you're just
(01:45):
you know that you know more than most people because
everyone else is getting their information from anti Semites. You know,
you think like you've got the real scoop and that
most people are just you know, born ignorance and biased
against Jews. And you don't have to be Jewish to
(02:06):
have been exposed to espara. Chances are that if you
grew up in the West, you probably hold several views
about Israel that are the result of decades long pr campaigns.
So what I'm gonna do now is a lightning round
of myth busting. This is just like real quick getting
into some of the I don't know, some of the
(02:27):
most pervasive things that I think each one could be
an entire episode. But you know, listen, this is your guys,
pot this isn't my podcast. I can't just take it
away from you. So I'm just gonna do a lightning
round with you are you ready.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Sharen, oh Born Ready, Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Okay. Israel is not a land without a people for
a people without land. Okay, there were people there. I
don't know if you know that Palestinians were there and
seven hundred and fifty thousand were expelled innineteen forty eight.
This whole conflict has not been going on for hundreds
of years. It is very very modern, and it has
(03:07):
nothing to do with an ancient religious rivalry. So when
someone says, oh, they've been killing each other for thousands
of yet, no, no, not even a little no, that
is not a thing. Israel quote lives in a tough
neighborhood and it must act tough to survive. That is
just regular ass racism and orientalism, the idea that they
(03:31):
just you know, you have to be tough, you know,
I mean, listen, A tough neighborhood is very much that
is translated for an American, a white American audience. You
know what I mean. What is a tough neighborhood. It's
one with a lot of people of color. Here's another one.
There are plenty of Arab states. Why can't they just
(03:51):
go there again? This is a weird racist, dehumanizing thing
to tell someone whose house you just bulldozed, like, you know,
whenever you see them, like doing a big zoom ount
where they go, like there's only one Jewish state and
there's all these Arab states. You know, it's like no, no, no, personally,
what happened here, don't don't you know? It's like you
(04:14):
guy had house, Army took house, moved him to other area.
That is wrong, period. You can't just say go to
another Arab country. That's that's just racism. Here's another one.
It's too complicated. No, it is not. Switch the roles
(04:36):
in your head. Use your brain for a second. Switch
the roles of Jews and Palestinians in your head, and
you'll have an easier time condemning the side that has
powerful government and army whose crimes include genocide, apartheid, at
nick cleansing, military occupation, and religious slash, racist settler terrorism.
(04:58):
That is not complicated. If it were the Jews who
lived in Gaza getting bombed mercilessly, you would not have
a problem saying what was happening was genocide. You just
wouldn't just do that in your head. All right, here's
another one. Zionism is an indigenous rights movement. No, it's
fucking not. It's not. It is a settler colonialist movement.
(05:24):
That is something that was made explicitly clear by the
creators of modern Zionism. They not only talked about like
settling and colonizing Palestine, but they referred to the Arab
occupants there as the indigenous population. They they said indigenous.
They God, it just pisses me off. And also the
(05:45):
indigenous argument is like, way, I just hate it in
general when people go back and forth about who is
indigenous there, because it's so academic. It's like it's dehumanizing
and it obfuscates the whole thing because once again it
is just Palestinians being like I want to be able
to vote, I want to have my house back. I
(06:06):
literally have the key to my house. And yes, many
of them literally still have the keys to their house.
All right, there's there's so many there's so many goddamn
myths and propaganda that I just like that. I started
a podcast about it. That's that's that's why. But like
much of the stuff that you take for granted is
fact is not only a historic but like wildly so,
(06:30):
like the IDF outnumbered the Arab States armies during the
war forty eight. That is literally, they say the opposite
in the you know, nineteen forty eight story of the
creation of Israel. It's like un created Israel. All the
Arab states attacked. That is not actually what happened. Were
(06:50):
not just that all the Arab states attack, but that
Israel and the IDEF overcame this gigantic horde of Arab armies.
The Arab armies that were in this fight are far
fewer than have been reported. You know, they say it's
like seven, It was more like four, and only three
of them. Only one of them had any sort of
like modern military capabilities. The rest were not really armies.
(07:14):
And also they outnumbered the idea of outnumbered these armies
in nineteen sixty seven. Here's another one. Is it all
attacked first in nineteen sixty seven. It was a preemptive
strike like famously, and yet the you know, once again,
the narrative around the nineteen sixty seven Six Day War
is that, you know, is Youra all minding its own
(07:35):
business and then Egypt, along with the other Arabs, yea
evil Arabs, attacked the Israeli army struck first. That is
a fact that they talk about, and there's it's also
very very much disputed as to whether or not the
Egyptian army was going to attack at all. But you know,
(07:58):
there's no room for narrative because it, you know, fucks
up the glorious story of what became the occupation of
the West Bank and Gaza. Another one, a hud Barak
absolutely did not offer the Palestinians estate during Oslo. He
did not, nor did he offer ninety six percent of
(08:20):
the West Bank. And no, Israel did not invent the
fucking cherry tomato.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Wait they did it.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
No, they did not. There was a Haretz article about
it where they're like, no, we didn't. Why do we
keep saying this we didn't do this? Oh my god,
that's so funny. No.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I mean, so many of these talking points are some
of the main arguments that Zionis will use to be like, well,
they rejected this and this is what happened here, and
it's just like these are all incorrect. You're just like
regurgitating hsbara.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Right, And it's because that his Bara has been so
widely repeated and so often that it just kind of
sinks in Huberak did not offer them a state in
terms of what you would consider the definition definition of
a state to be, you know, and that is autonomy,
that is sovereignty. They were not offering them sovereignty. They
(09:15):
weren't offering ninety six percent of the land. They had
taken such a large percentage of the of it. And
what they were offering was in an even smaller percentage
of what they had already taken. And they the thing
they were offering again, not a state, not a state,
not a sovereign autonomous state. But you know, this is
(09:38):
a things people are willing to believe. And that's just
that's the whole thing. And again I prefer to say
it's the I am rubber, you are a glue tactic.
But you know it's the same shit. You know, Hiszbara
likes to invert the victim and the victimizer. And the
reason is simple. They know that the West is much
more willing to believe that Jews are the victims and
(10:00):
Arabs are oppressors. You know, it's just it's playing on
Western guilt and complicity in Europe during the Holocaust, and
it's playing on kind of liberal sympathies in general, and
honestly it's playing on well, who do you know if
you're in the West. If you're in the West, you
(10:21):
know some Jews, maybe you don't know Arabs. The Arabs
you do know are on TV doing bad, you know,
And that is one of the reasons for the effectiveness
of it. And in terms of like the inversion of everything,
like I think my favorite example is the is the map,
(10:43):
So like Israel will often point to a map of
the entire mina region like Middle East North Africa, and
they'll highlight all of the Arab countries in green and
Israel in blue to show that like, oh, Israel just
a tiny is It's just a tiny strip of land.
It's just a small bean, you know, surrounded by big
(11:04):
green Arab monsters and want to kill Israel like that.
Hesboro map will like often include the West Bank and
the Gaza strip in green as well, and it's a
way to frame the West Bank in Gaza is not
just being like this you know particular thing. They will
be like, no, these are part of the giant invading
(11:27):
Arab green monster, because what they're trying to do is
show the power imbalance is being completely inverted from the
reality here, you know, and anyone anyone who knows you know,
or anyone who's like watched the news, knows that it's
ridiculously false to claim that Israel is somehow the less
(11:47):
powerful agent here, you know, like you you don't have
to have a PhD to plainly see the disproportionate power imbalance.
Like there's Israel an you know, well armed military, cutting
edge technology, backing and funding of the world's most powerful state,
(12:09):
most powerful superpower, the United States, and then there is Hamas.
That doesn't make Hamas the good guys or whatever I'm saying,
it's just a clear indication of the power imbalance. You know,
there is a clear power imbalance. And I think, like
to what you were saying, the last one hundred plus
days have made it perfectly clear that for all the
(12:31):
talk of like the Arab States supporting Palestinians, like, it's
clear Israel could literally genocide Palestinians in broad daylight. In
the Arab States who do nothing. There is no giant
Arab green monster that is protecting the Palestinian like the Palestinians.
Only Arab comrades right now are the Houthis in Yemen
and has Bollah in Lebanon, both of which are non
(12:52):
government militant organizations. They are not like, it is not
the State of Yemen who is supporting the Palestinians. It's
not the State of Lebanon. It is these militant states
within states pretty much. And yeah, so it's like you
have to remember when Israel claims were just they were
a small state the size of New Jersey, you know,
(13:14):
in a tough neighborhood, and trying to make you know,
the West Bank and Gaza look like the spear's tip
of an Arab invasion. You have to remember that's not
the case. The truth of it is is like you
want to talk about how small Israel is, look how
small the Gaza strip is, and that you know alone,
(13:35):
to like look at that picture to know they are
surrounded and to see that there's no way out. That
I think changes the narrative for people. And it's a
narrative that the Israelis don't like to show. They don't
like to show the West Bank and you know, in
terms of how it is cut into cantons that are
(13:56):
basically everything is surrounded by Israeli settlements. In Israeli military.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
They took the best agricultural lands for themselves, you know
what I mean, like they really And also I think
talking about seeing the Gaza on a map, it's really
infuriating to me because I feel like in the last
couple of months more people have seen what Gaza looks
like on a map than ever before. And we see
how fucking small it is, and it's described as being
five miles at one point, like from the sea to
(14:27):
the whatever, and it's still not enough of aable, you know,
it's to the wall, literally to the wall. But like
it's just even seeing how mini school it is is
still not enough for people to be like, oh, thirty
thousand people dying in this little strip of land.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
We should think about that, like right, yeah, no, I
mean no, it's it is it is. My point is
basically to dispel the idea that, like the Hesbara has
been Israel, small there or deserves support and people standing
(15:04):
with it because small because scary, small, scary because baby puppy,
because a little little you know, please help, And that
visual is just such a it's such a gross lie.
And you know, you've anything to make the Palestinians, you know,
(15:26):
seem bigger than they are, is helpful for Israel, and
that's why they do it. You know, this is this
is a way to invert the victim and the victimizer.
And it's clear as day. Other things that are clear
as day, these products and services that we're going to
be selling. So stick around, we'll be right back and
(16:01):
we're back again. People in the West, by and large,
prefer the Israeli explanation. They're fine living in this alternate reality.
And you know, people believe it for like a variety
of reasons. Some people because they were raised to believe it,
some people because they just want to believe it. But
(16:23):
I think mostly most people in the West just don't
really care enough about like Palestinians to like look into
it like they're you know, they're just it's one of
many news stories too. I think a lot of people
it's easy to put in a box and to be honest,
you know, like wouldn't that be nice to be able
to compartmentalize like it would for me? Shit, it would
(16:46):
make me way less stressed if I could just not care.
And that's not to like call out anyone who doesn't care,
because I do think that it is absolutely human and
valid to have some things that you just don't have
emotional capacity to care about. I think my issue is
not whether or not people are like, you know, supporting
(17:11):
Palisine on their social media or whatnot. My issue is
whether or not they're just going to allow themselves to
be manipulated and then end up defending the indefensible because
of it. Like if you're if you're not going to
say nothing, don't do hasbara. That's my that's my feeling
about it. But yeah, you know, people want to put
(17:31):
in the box. Beyond that, I think there's also no
incentive for a lot of people to believe in it,
in fact, to even question who are the victims and
the victimizers in the whole Israeli Palestine quote unquote conflict,
Like it brings up a dark, twisted irony that most
people don't even want to entertain. You know, people don't
(17:51):
want to think about that stuff. And it also it
people worry about whether or not they're going to get
in trouble. And that brings me to another part of
this speech I found from the Middle East Policy Council
about haspara quote it also seeks to actively inculcate canons
(18:13):
of political correctness in domestic and foreign media and audiences
that will promote self censorship by them. It strives thereby
to decrease the willingness of audiences to consider information linked
to politically unacceptable viewpoints, individuals and groups, and to inhibit
the circulation of adverse information and social networks. It focuses
(18:36):
on limiting the receptivity of audiences to information. So hasbar
is fucking orwellian? That is? I think one of the
things that interests me about it a lot is how
Orwellian it is. You know, it goes beyond mere branding
(18:56):
when the Israeli government and pro Israel institutions like so
effectively mold the parameters of what is and isn't politically correct,
not just like in their own country, but in other
countries in the West. Like, think about the self censorship
that you the listener do around this issue. Think about
the times you wanted to say something but didn't because
(19:18):
you didn't know the exact right way to say it,
you know, like how to put it. And like think
about the times that you were reading something critical of
Israel by someone you trust and agree with, and one
sentence or one word or one turn of phrase triggered
you into questioning not just the validity of the thing
(19:39):
you were reading, but like the nature of the person
who wrote it. Think about your reaction to me saying
these things about Israel, and about how you felt when
Sharene made a lot of these points on some other
episode of this podcast, you know, like think about why
that changes things for you. And like there was a
(20:01):
time where I was also uncomfortable and like I would
only feel comfortable at hearing criticism and doing criticism of
Israel in the presence of other Jews, like it had
to be in a you know, private all Jewish Facebook
group or in like in person or through text messages.
(20:21):
Like I was so suspicious of the secret motives of
non Jewish people criticizing Israel, right, Like, like someone could
literally say something that I one hundred percent agreed with,
something that I myself had said, and then I would
still get this icky feeling from them saying it, like yeah,
but why are they saying it? Like why do you care?
(20:45):
Like that is probably Hasbara's greatest success to relegate the
issue of Palestinian human and civil rights to a niche
subject that is best talked about in private and only
by Jews. So I mean, Sharen, I know that, like
for you, you've got you get shipped for this, you
(21:08):
know I do.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Yeah, I feel like I'm done qualifying in my real
life especially and also just like in work. I'm done
qualifying whether or not something I say is or is
not whatever, because I'm if I'm even entertaining the idea
that criticizing Israel is anti Semitic, that's like feeding the fire.
I don't want to even bring that into I don't
(21:31):
want to associate that religion and the state of Israel.
And I feel like the more we have those disclaimers,
the more it's conflated. And I've definitely, I mean, I've
had a lot of anti Zionist Jewish people on this show,
almost almost to like show people that like, listen to
these people with actual experience.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yes, and that's not to it's not to you know,
say you shouldn't. And none of this is me saying like, hey,
you shouldn't listen to anti Zionist Jews or whatnot, or
just like you know, like or you shouldn't be discerning
about who you're getting your information for, because yeah, there
are Nazis who are you know, wrap themselves in the
(22:14):
guise of being anti Israel or like you know, anti
occupation or whatnot. That none of this is putting down
anyone for being discerning or being careful, but it's to
say that like Hasbara has quite an effect on even
the most conscious of people. Like making Zionism and Judaism
(22:38):
synonymous and like practically indistinguishable is like one of his
Bar's like greatest achievements, presenting Jewish support of Israel as
monolithic save for like a few cranks you know, who
are the exception that prove the rule. You know, like
non Jews don't want to criticize criticize Israel because they
don't want to upset their Jewish friends, or they don't
(23:00):
want to be labeled an anti Semite. You know. It's like,
you know, after the large public outcry about Israel's brutal
response to the Homosteris attacks of October seventh, there was
a big push among Hasbaris to frame all Jews of
the world as feeling abandoned by the left and abandoned
by their friends. You had people like Brett Gelman, Oh
(23:22):
my god, from a stranger.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Walking dumps, I hate him so much, Oh my.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
God, fucking wooly Willie over here going on Instagram being
like hey, fake woke former friends, and like he gave
a speech at the like Stand with Israel March that
was something like the Jews don't need you, like presenting
the you know, the idea of people criticizing Israel, or
(23:48):
like not wanting at the very least not wanting the
complete obliteration of Palestinians in Gaza. Framing that is like, oh, well,
all the Jews want that, you know, like his whole
thing of being like the Jews don't need you, as
if he and Israel represented all Jews, like presenting the
(24:12):
Jews of the world as a monolith, as if non
Zionist or anti Zionist Jews don't even exist, as if
we all felt this way, Like you don't want to
hate Jews, do you? Of course, if you don't, then
you gotta let Israel do whatever the hell it wants.
You know.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
I think what really bothers me about him? I mean
everything bothers me about him, But like people like him,
they'll sometimes preface what they're saying with hey, I care
about Palestinians and then continue on their their whatever tirade.
There's ionis bullshit. And it's like, it's just it really
boggles my mind because I think he thinks he's a
(24:48):
good person. I really think that he believes he's a
good person when really he's just a piece of shit
that does not see a huge group of people as
human beings.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yes, does not see people is human. And this is
something that you I think that anyone who's like a
self described liberal or leftist or whatever would be able
to easily recognize in any other situation. But it's just
it's it's it's clouded in this particular situation because of
this conflation, because you are willing to believe that Jews
(25:25):
are sort of a mono like monolithically agree with Israel.
Like they may be like a little bit like liberal
Zionists or whatnot, but mostly you know, they all love Israel,
and that is is is not true, and it's it's
a way of like more so, it feeds into the
(25:45):
continuing conflation. It feeds into this hasbara that Israel represents
all Jews, and I am telling you right now it doesn't.
And I don't think I'm telling anyone something they don't
already know. Like I think people knows Zionism is not Judaism.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
I think I've said that many times on this podcast,
trust me.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, yeah, at this point you should know.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
If you don't know that by now, please.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yes, learn it now. But like you know, Jews, both
inside and outside of Israel, have a diverse range of
views about the Israeli government. That's not to say that
Jews in Israel do not, for the most part, you know,
support the government at least or support the project of Zionism,
(26:29):
but that is to like, to me, that's to be expected.
It's to be expected that it's like fucking nine to eleven,
you know, I it'd be weird to not expect the
kind of racist jingoism that you saw like after nine
to eleven, you know, in fucking America. And I feel
like that was the majority of people. Was that kind
of like like seething anti Arab hatred. And I'm not
(26:53):
excusing it, But what I'm saying is that Jews have
a diverse range of views inside and outside of Israel,
and a lot of it includes wanting a ceasefire. And
that's why you see it in these Jewish organizations that
are trying to end the occupation. They're trying they are
openly critiquing Israel that are calling Zionism racism. You see it,
(27:15):
and you see it because they because we're honestly trying
to change this narrative. We're trying to stop people from
believing this lie that the Jewish people are synonymous with
the state of Israel.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Yeah, and I think that's why Jewish and I mean
I've said this many times as well, but Jewish Antaizionists
are like a very integral part of the movement to
liberate Palestine because it's again, it's not a Palestinian issue,
it's not a Muslim issue. It's a very human issue.
Its care about people not being fucking genocided.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yes, another thing that's pretty clear is how good the
products are that we sell here at Cool Zone. Let's
stick around, listen to these ads and we'll.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Be right back.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
And we're back. So I want to say to everyone listening,
I understand that the impulse to treat the subject of
Israel with more caution and care is rooted in respect
for the Jewish people and a desire to stand firmly
against anti Semitism, and that is that is a good thing.
(28:40):
I encourage that one you respecting Jewish people and wanting
to stand firmly against anti Semitism, wanting to fight it
with every fiber of your being. You are correct and
feeling that way, and I want to encourage it. And
I also need you to understand that it's for that
very reason that I urge people to speak out about Israel,
(29:04):
because I believe Israel and they're Hasbaris mouthpieces and the
project of political Zionism are inherently anti Semitic, and not
in like the semantic sense where it's like Arabs are
also semi So it's an argument I've heard. I'm not
talking about that. I'm talking about anti Jewish, specifically anti Jewish.
(29:27):
They actively work to create fear amongst diaspora Jews, make
us distrust our friends, our neighbors, our coworkers, our fellow Jews.
Even they tell us that, you know, they tell Jews
that unless they support Israel, they are not real Jews,
you know, or they are self hating Jews. They use
(29:50):
our past traumas against us. They re traumatize us and
manipulate us like it's classic abuser shit. It is it
is abuse, it's it's cult shit too, And they even
deal in Nazi revisionism. And it's it's so important to
point this out because you see the way that they,
(30:14):
the Israeli government uses the Nazi you know, accusation in
order to do a genocide. I mean you see constantly,
you know, in the last three four months, videos from
the IDF showing, you know, an iPad they found in
a teen girls bedroom, and you know, they open it
(30:36):
up and there's the wallpaper of the iPad is is
Hitler's face. And you look at that, and you're supposed
to go, oh my god, I can't I can't believe that,
and you forget to question what the fuck an Israeli
soldier is doing in a seventeen year old girls bedroom.
Why is it blown up? And why is why is
(30:57):
he going through her stuff like that? You you stop
looking at what is actually happening, and you start looking
at what the Hasbaris want you to look at. They
want you to see the Hitler thing and go like,
oh man, this is a whole society of little Hitlers
and and I you know, I look at that and
(31:20):
I see the way they cynically use that. While at
the same time, you know, Benjamin Netanyahoo has been pushing
this line, claiming that the Holocaust was essentially the Palestinians idea.
I mean, this is something that has been gaining more
and more traction in like sort of this new Israel Palestine,
(31:44):
like a historical narrative that's been pushed about, like you know,
the Mufti and is and and Hitler meeting up together
and being like have you ever thought about killing the Jews?
And Hitler was like I never thought about that before.
It's that's so smart. Wow, thank you. So Palestinians like
total bullshit, totally revising, like trying to do fucking like
(32:09):
I don't know apologya for literally Hitler is anti Semitic.
I don't care how you slice it. It is. And
that's something that the Israeli government deals in. They deal
in anti Semitism all the time. I mean essentially, Israel
tells the world that Jews are a third column, loyal
(32:32):
to Israel first and foremost, and tells Jews that our
home isn't our home. They say this to us, and
you know that due to our traditions and our blood,
you know, we are just merely guests in any other place.
This is like an old racist worldview. From a previous
century filled with blood and soil fascism, you know, and
(32:56):
like for me, like growing up in a mixed secular family,
you know, where I'm like, yeah, I'm like culturally Jewish
and I'm ethnically Jewish, but I'm like a blood jew essentially,
you know, like and as like the very fact of
me having Jewish blood was used by fascists to murder
us during the Holocaust. Now under Israel's Law of Return,
(33:19):
that very same Jewish blood is being used by fascists
as a passport to allow me to move to Israel
and displace an entire Palestinian family if I choose to, like,
you know, being religiously Jewish doesn't have anything to do
with my ability to do this, and my blood is
my passport to do apartheid. That's why I choose to
(33:41):
talk about this stuff. You know, if you're going to
use my blood to make me complicit in crimes, the
crimes of your state, then I'm gonna have something to
fucking say about it, you know. So my final piece
of Haspara has to do with something that has been
said over and over again by countless zionussing the current
president of these United States of America, Joe Biden.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Folks, were there no Israel, there wouldn't be a Jewish
the world was safe.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
The idea that the state of Israel alone can keep
the Jewish people safe is an insane piece of hasbara.
It is total, utter anti Semitic bullshit. A Jewish state
does not and cannot keep Jewish people safe. Tying the
fate of the Jewish state to the Jewish people is
(34:33):
a recipe for fucking disaster. The Jewish people are a
nation that has lasted thousands of years. Nations meaning like
a people with a common origin, history, language, culture, customs,
and religion and or religion. You know, it can be
any of those things. And for a long long time
we were one of many stateless nations that existed. And
(34:56):
that's not to say that you know, Israel show and
exists or whatever. But more importantly on what I'm saying
is that Jews should exist, whether they happen to be
located anywhere, like wherever they are, Jews should should exist.
The existence of the state of Israel, to me, is
(35:17):
not the question, and that is not what Israel claims
to do. They ensure They claim to ensure the existence
of the Jewish people. But they do not. All they
do is try to bolster the existence of their state.
And it should not be common thought that the existence
of Israel and the existence of Jews are the same thing.
(35:37):
As I can personally think of nothing more dangerous for
any people than to tie their entire survival to something
as impermanent as a fucking state. And that is the
truth about Israel. So you know, all this to say
(35:59):
that I'm a I guess I'm an anarchist. Now there's
one thing that you know, getting into the whole Israel
Palestine thing will do to you. It turns you very
quickly into someone who believes the existence of states is
the problem. Yeah, yeah, so that's that's me. That's how
(36:20):
I feel about stuff.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
I'm so glad you did this series for us. Where
can't people hear you do the same thing? But what
by yourself?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
With other people? You can? You can hear me? Do
you know these talking about Israel and stuff? On my
new podcast Bad Hasbara, the World's Most Moral podcast. It's
a it's a comedy podcast about hilarious Israeli propaganda that
I that I find that are you know, listeners find
(36:50):
and you know I have on my friends like Sharine,
I had you on, I had Anna on, I had
all sorts of great anti Zionist Jews and some really
amazing Palestinian guests. Or at least by the time this
comes out, I assume those episodes will have come out.
I you know, I don't know when those are coming out.
But anyways, I've only been doing the podcast for a
(37:12):
month and it's been a lot of fun. It's been cathartic,
and it's been hard, and it's definitely been you know,
like caused some stress in my life because you know,
looking for this content you have to dig through a
lot of really horrific shit. So yeah, check out bad
Asbara or you know, check me out met leave jokes
(37:34):
on Instagram, and go to a Sacramento punchline March seventeenth, Sunday,
seven pm. Me and my wife, my wife ran Jessica Ifi'rentini.
We're gonna be co headlining there, so get your tickets now.
Link in the notes.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yay, No, thank you so much. I really enjoy your podcast,
the most sporal podcast I would.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Say in the world. Sure, thank you for you know,
give me the opportunity to talk about this and you know,
I I promise you that the show, The Badass Bar
Show is funny. I swear to god, it's funny.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
It's very cathartic. You are you're correct in that. It's
very cathartic to just like event with your friends and
people think the same things as you, especially if you're
surrounded by someone or people that are kind of.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Purposely ignorant or whatever.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
So, yeah, when you're surrounded by people who don't want
to either don't want to engage with this at all,
or I'm mad at you for even partially engaging with it,
it's nice to find the people that you know in
love and like to joke around with and be like,
we're we're not crazy, right exactly, and then we go, yeah,
(38:51):
we're not, and then we have a good time. Yeah,
check that out, and thank you, and thank you to
everyone at cool Zon Media.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yay.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Yeah, go follow Matt, go see me in Matt and
and his uh my crush his wife, don't tell her,
And yeah, they're they're really doing the work. And I
really appreciate both of you guys just being really outspoken always,
and so yeah, follow their lead. Keep talking about Palestine.
(39:17):
There's still a fucking genocide happening, and that's the episode.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
All right, bye everyone.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Hie Pree Palestine pre Palestine.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated
monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
It Could Happen Here News
Host
Robert Evans
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