August 27, 2024 • 45 mins
Queer Zapatista network activist Eme Flores gives Mia an update about the current status of Mexico's terf movement and how they fueled the campaign against Olympic boxer Imane Khelif.
Follow Emi: @EmeAquiFlores
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
All zone media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
When therefore a man is told you your inner being
are so and so because your skull bone is so constituted,
this means nothing else than that we regard a bone
as the man's reality. To retort upon such a statement,
the retort here would properly speaking, have to go to
(00:25):
the link, so breaking the skull of the person who
makes a statement like that, in order to demonstrate to
him in a manner as palpable as his own wisdom,
that a bone is nothing of an inherent nature at
all for a man still less his true reality. Welcome
tock da here, I'm your host, Bia Wong. That was
the man himself, George Wilhelm Frederick Hegel from the Phenomenology
(00:47):
of Mind.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I'm gonna go full Ceesar shape post here like that's
not Hegel?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Lovely and with the iss as as you have just heard.
Is Emmie Flores, a queer socialist in Mexico City who's
we've had on the show before to talk about Mexican turfs,
has worked with Zappotisea Networks, and we are once again,
I think, delving into the terrifying, extremely well organized worlds
of Mexican turfs, and I guess this is kind of
(01:20):
a they're eating a bit of shit episode.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Oh yeah, which is good.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
We have good news in this show.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Whoo very rare occurrence we have. We have a little
bit of good news. Yeah. Also, welcome to the show.
Excited to have you back.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I love the show, and I'm happy to update because
last time we left on a real sour note and
this time, I mean, it's not exactly fantastic news, but
things are looking up in this specific part, and I
think you're going to introduce us to a massive double
we just got worldwide.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, so we ended up not doing a full episode
on this, but one of the big sort of stories
for the last few weeks.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
And I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
When this episode is gonna be coming out, so maybe
this is gonna be ancient news by that point. But
the day we're recording this is like one day after
the Aegerian boxer in mon khalif U I won the
gold medal of the Olympics. She has been I mean,
this story has been sort of beaten to death, but
like she's been like accused of being a man and
being like transgender, and like all of this shit from
(02:26):
a whole bunch of like I mean, everyone from like
Elon Musk to like jk Rowling to Meggan. Kelly's losing
her mind about it. I forgot she even existed until this,
but she's apparently around and doing.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
This, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So so I think people sort of know the basics
of this story, but there's a part of the story
about sort of you know, I will, I guess we'll
probably get into a little bit of this about how
a lot of this is sort of manufactured by a
bunch of incredibly sore losers and like weird transphobes in
a incredibly corrupt like Russian ran boxing association, right right.
(03:01):
But the other side of this, it has gotten absolutely
zero coverage anywhere. Is that a huge amount of the
attacks against against her were started by the Mexican Turf Network.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Yeah, and so.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Presently one of the few coverages I've seen has been
in Mexican like feminist news, which is like part of
the things that have changed since then, like Mexican and
Latin American feminists have realized, oh, we fucked up, and
we're trying to fix our mistakes. But sadly, I think
the world suffered one of our latest mistakes.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, so can you tell us about sort of how
this whole thing started, which I think is like several
years earlier than most people seem to really like understand.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I think the corruption angle that we might expand a
little bit more, that is the beginning of it. And
I think it was a little bit and then it
was like in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Let's be real, she won gold.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I was not bidding on her winning gold. Like, she's
really good, but she's not like the buffest out there.
It's pure racism and convenience that she's been labeled and
targeted the way the way she is because like you
see her opponents and there are the buffiest girls I've
ever seen in my life. They're incredible, Like every single
(04:20):
athlete up there is amazing. And took pictures of her
and say, you're telling me this is not a man
Like she's like a little bit skinny, honestly, Like she's
really tall, so she has to be skinny to be
competing that way.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It's like have you have people ever seen a boxer before,
Like it's just bad, Like one of.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
The boxers that defended her, like she was offended, Like
you're telling me that I've been in many before and
like I didn't even qualify for these years Olympics. Like
she's not invincible, even if this is probably her best
best performance. Yeah, she really shown on the spotlight. I
love her, but like she's not extremely muscular or anything.
Not that being muscular is masculine, but like this was
(05:01):
really just both racism and convenience. But part of that
is uh. One of the first people who started complaining
about this after the corrupt Russian Russian oliger Glad bucks
in Federation that got disqualified from the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, like again I want to I want to pause here,
and everyone like take note of this. Do you understand
how corrupt of an organization do you have to be
for the fucking Olympics to stop working with you? Like
you have to make the Chicago fucking machine look squeaky
clean for for the Olympics to not work.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Like we're talking about every single other sport is also
wing ship like this, Like they just went to greedy
like they like it some Russian oligarch that got into
fights with people during the war in Ukraine and then
they didn't stop doing corruption, Like they couldn't just take
a year break, they.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
Had to push. Yeah, they had to play two dirty.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
So at the end of the day, Imanicat disqualified with like,
trust me, pro levels of citations for her. No one
knew for a while what was the thing that disqualified her.
What was it hormones or chromosomes, vibes? It turns out
it's mostly vibes. Yeah, And so when when she got
disqualified from a not an Olympic event, but uh corrupt
(06:27):
Russian arclead event, a former boxer who lost against her,
who's from Mexico, who sucks ass like she's really dog shit.
She started posting pictures of her ruses after the match,
and honestly, she reminds me of the Italian boxer that
also got her ship rocks. Yeah, because they keep She
(06:50):
did perform very well in many at the at the
end when when she got gold, but the very first
like matches she got were against like how did these
people get here?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, like that that Italian boxer, Like this is the
only time I will ever say this about something that
happened in the Olympics.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
It's like the Italian boxer threw the.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Worst punch I've ever seen and then instantly got punched
by like the most obvious punch of the entire world
in the face.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
It's like, wait, what are you doing? How did you
get here?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Like and like I won't go deep into why why
Brianda Tamara sucks so much as because that would have
been the episode we ended up not doing, but suffice
it to say, like she's just not in that level.
She didn't qualify for a reason this time. But and
also I noticed that she was waiting to do her
pro deview right now, like something fill planned about all
(07:40):
of this. Yeah, Like she she announced that she retired
from amateur boxing, which you know, not honestly is the
more legit boxing, don't at me. And she she's going
bro which means she's now charging for tickets. And she
announced her pro deview the same day that this whole
like bundles started for international people watching the Olympics, Like
(08:03):
she very much knew that the people were gonna try something.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, so she so she's using this just like boxing promoting, yeah,
pretty much, which is like the shady shit, Yeah, boxing.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Promoting in Cinela, which like if you know anything about Mexico,
that's that's gonna.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
Be a couple of red less oh boy. But so
the thing is, why did she knew that she was
gonna happen? Really says a lot about how international terms.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Are operating nowadays, right like I don't want to get
all fucking Russia Gate and like like have my fucking
prosecure body pillow like some leaves have. But terms are
trying to get money and influence anywhere they can, and
some of them are trying to get in from Russia,
right like yeah, it's if they're already putting people in
concretion camps in China, like they say, hell, yeah, I
(08:53):
want me some of that. And you know the Brits
are something too focused on Britain. You need something international
to make them. Money flowed down to Latin America, especially
out of Spain. Spain kind of hawks it all for themselves.
The first news site that took the years ago translated
it to English is called Redox Magazine. Like that, I
think it's a Canadian joint Redos. It's the only side
(09:17):
I've seen in all of like the turf landscape that
only publishes in English and Spanish. Like it's very clearly
a fulcrum for like terf organizing in Latin America and
in the anglosphere. And I don't think it's a coincidence
that this story broke quote unquote, like the first people
(09:39):
who commented on this and like renewed the accusations of
Imani being trans was Redocs and then other like transphobic
boxing coaches from Italy and England and the United States
started picking up the story. But that was after like
the more diplomatically minded Mexican term and Spanish TERFs that
(10:01):
usually don't work together.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Again, they don't like to share.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Listen, Mexico doesn't have the best relationship with Spain for
allvious reasons. Yeah, but even then, like ass spaces for
TERFs in Mexico had been closing, they're looking for funding
from other places. Right, the turf gambit didn't work quite
well in Mexico, so they're trying to look for international
sponsor sponsorships, and they thought they had hit a big
(10:27):
one here. They had the attention of the entire world.
People were sharing Brianda's photos because like again Brianda doesn't
have it's not a good boxer, so she looks like
a young short prelated like beer barista, and put her
against like someone who's like a head taller that beat
her ass because she she sucks.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
They couldn't ask for a very propaganda.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, but it really backfired when the entire world went,
what what are you talking about? Yeah, but I think
it worked for Mexican TERFs. I think that they might
get like a couple of grants here and there they're
back in the railar at least internationally.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
And that's why I.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Think coming here is really important because we didn't win precisely,
and we'll get to that, but at least we're in
a stalemate, and I think they're trying to look for
either allies or honestly job s elsewhere.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
They might just want a spot in Riddos.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Magazine, like to get into like be able to move
to Britain or shit like that.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I think it is just something that is important about
the Mexican TERFs, which is like unlike in the US,
where there's just this like unbelievably large pot of money
that you can tap into from like the Heritry Foundation
and like all of these sort of like right wing
think tanks. It's like the funding is a lot harder
to come by.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
We all have troubles getting funding.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, any type of small grant that would be a
nothing burger in America goes a long way here, right,
And so the far right has been really smart pushing.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Stuff, but it hasn't really paid diviends.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
And uh, it's all gonna write up for a while, honestly,
especially with like how the economy is going.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
I think in the age of infinite.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Money of twenty twenty, like they were willing to throw
more money at like a long shot that in Brasila
or Mexico right now. They got to bring something to
the table, and they tried to bring in money, and
they I think they fucking ate shit.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Hell yeah, So okay, you know what else brings something
to the table? It is the products and services that
I put food on my table. I guess God all
the other pars.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
Of this.
Speaker 7 (12:37):
Here are these ads and we are back.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So I wanted to kind of move to talking about
what's been happening in this sort of Mexican feminist scene
in in terms of sort of what's what's been going
on with turf since the election of the new Mexican president,
Claudia Shamebomb. Who's I don't know, Like I think a
lot of Americans, I think the conception of her is
that she's like significantly further left and she actually is.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Oh yeah, like I you know what, I felt so
much Scott and Freud when like people started talking about
Kamala like she was gonna end aparthype and and the general.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
Side, and I was like, how does see it? Fucking
feel sorry?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I got really angry at every single article no one
talked her correctly, like both the far right and the
left thought she was significantly to the left, like everyone said, like, oh,
finally a feminist Jewish woman, and like the Jewish Party
is gonna play a part because like I do feel
we're gonna see a rise in anti Semitism in Mexico,
a big one. Like I feel like a Birther style
(13:48):
movement from when Obama was lifted coming up and it's
gonna play again. I see Claudia shamebamb She's not just
an extension of Amla, and she is I would say,
not further to the left then, and there's whatever, but
she has less right wing things, right, It's not like
she's better than anload, she's just less worse.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
She's she because like almost.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Like an old Christian guy, like and I do mean
Christian like this is a Catholic country, Anamlod is like
I think it's he's like Pentecostal or something like he's
never needed like what his relatives said, but he did
do like weird right wing things, especially culturally, well I
mean not everywhere right, Like we got hell of militarized,
like half our infrastructure is owned by the military now,
(14:35):
which is like just Jack Carton metoying ourselves like for free.
And he goes on brands about how drugs are caused
by buying video games and like like he like for
for a week, try to like say we should ban Fortnite.
That didn't know anywhere, and I think it was just
because his son didn't stop playing it.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Maybe he he overspent on the family credit. But like yeah,
he's very like he.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Has a very Christian morality and it's a weird fit
with Mexicans Catholic one in the weirdest way. Like his
very like work will like very Protestant ethics guy, and
people didn't talk about that and now they think Claudia
is gonna bring like Jewish ethics and no, she's like
just like a Mexican scientist, like professional, like she's very
(15:26):
much a scientist at least that that's her self conception
and how she operates. And she I think a lot
of people underestimated her, like they just saw her as
an appendage of Handlow, like with no real political document
or skill of herself. She doesn't really have a base
of voters. Again, she's like an academic, like her base
of voters are college graduates left lining college garrets, but
(15:51):
not too left learning because otherwise you'll see, like, hey,
please stop.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Militaries in our country.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
And so we didn't expect her to to who win
with like the margins that she did. She won with
historic margins, more votes than a logout. It's just she's
so fucking.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
Shrud And this ties to the TERFs because like four
years we were really worried because.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Like we thought she was a turf, Like we straight
up thought she was a turf, even though she passed
some of the largest like trans positive legislations in Mexico
City that was more like momentum from Mexico City being
like this progressive center of Mexican politics. And like, I know,
I participated in getting that law pass like like she
wasn't happy about that. She basically was trying to get
(16:37):
some Heritage Foundation funded folks to sit in a table
and like have a big discussion, like a very very
centrist thing of like let's listen to both sides. And
it's because she had like some of the og turfs
from Mexico, like from some of them, like that started
in the seventies, Like people who knew Jennys Raymond when
she was young were literally in Morena structure, like during
(17:00):
twenty twenty, like the Women's Agenda for Morena was set
by turfs, by some of the the worst turfs, like
some of the most internationally well connected turfs too, right,
and that was a huge problem. We managed to push
back against that with protests, with like talking to politicians,
like not really begging, we just you know, that's a
(17:20):
nice wind you have there.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
That would be a shame thing happened too.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And also that by like my my collective, like we
started focusing on like oh god, I don't want to
say anymore becaus like since since Ukraine, like saying, oh,
since it's so Crain. But like we started like investigating
and like tracking, like these people start showing up in
like government positions.
Speaker 5 (17:44):
That was really worrying.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Some of them were like very clearly affiliated with the
far right, but some of them were they came from
like union jobs on and she like that, or they
were like they were the anarchists throwing bricks that walls
like a year ago, and we started seeing them get
co opted slowly, and we were really scared. But then
(18:07):
I think we underestimated that Claudia was playing us, but
she was also playing them, like she is.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
A really shrewd political operator, and she.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Gave TERFs enough to get them to do what TERFs
do best, which is break up feminist organizing. Yeah, so
whatever Cloudy I could not directly co opt to like
get like leaders, there were some like black Blocks in
Mexico whose leaders like literally had in their linkedins that
they were like doing.
Speaker 5 (18:36):
Like black blood shit.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Oh my god, I know, it's incredible, And.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
It just gave everything away because the same person who
did that had in her LinkedIn like a year previously
that she was like an eighty for a Morena congress woman.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
And yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Think what Morena did was infiltrate a lot of black
Blocks to neutralize because during twenty twenty two years after
Amlo got elected, like Mexican feminists were I would say
the biggest fire in social movements in Mexico, like with
the Sapatistas getting surrounded by state sponsored narco cartels and stuff,
(19:15):
like they were really paralyzed and with COVID and everything
like that, like a lot of other organizing got real damaged.
But feminists were like they were trying to get abortion passed,
and they succeeded for most of it. But like institutional
feminists succeeded banning abortion and more independent or street anarchists,
(19:37):
socialist based feminists, they suddenly didn't have anything to demand,
so they either got kushi government jobs, or they got arrested,
or they helped the police arrest people, like by being
like clearly just like you know the classic like eight
people get arrested and one of them gets out in
(19:58):
like a week, and it's like ah yeah. And so
like feminists got are road awakening, and before they were
more permissive like cool feminists like real leftists, socialists and
queer feminists were more permissive of turfs during like the
twenty sixteen two twenty twenty two because they thought, like
(20:18):
we need unity within feminism, we need to like get
a version passed, we need to like combat both the
far right and anulost conservatism, and well they won, and
a bunch of their leaders got go up to we
have an epidemic of like feminist activists passing laws.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
With their names.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Like the one movement that got defeated the worst is
anti car solo feminism. Like forget about abolitionism in the
carcal sense. It's no one gave a shit about that.
Even anarchists were trying to pass laws to like lay
Olivia to scalp thats who haven't paid child support. Like
they really bet everything on punitivism. And that's the thing
(20:59):
that united like every single segment of feminism, including ratference centers,
Like they love.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
Putting people in jail. It's their whole entire deal.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
And so, but the thing is, that's the way you
get You co opt someone, You just tell her okay,
instead of like being an archopunk like doing tagging government buildings.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
What if I just give you a shit a lot
of money and I pay for.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
You to go to fancy hotels in every state and
like talk about how important it is that we throw
your x into a.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
Into a meat processing machine for like breaking up with you.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, and I mean I'm being believed, like there's horrible shit,
like we have to pass a lot to like give
more time to people who through asset at women's faces, right,
but like.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
That's already legal. It's already legal.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I don't know if it's gonna work that well, especially
because like I think one of the most biggest cases
of like a literal trafficker just got off jail this
week and he literally tortured one of Mexico's biggest rod films,
And it's like, what did he you did? Did this
all for nothing? Like you're just gonna like lock up
(22:09):
more poor people and like rich assholes are gonna walk free. Yeah,
and so yeah, that was twenty twenty. Then it got
co opted and just like Claudia gave us some loss
for trans people.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
She put turfs in government positions.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
We protested that, and then she dropped them, like she
really did a andy with.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Woody, like I don't want to play with you anymore.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Like once she neutralized the feminist movement, once there were
like there was no threat of escalation, she really didn't
need the black the fake black blocks, She just you
know dropped them.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, And speaking of fake black blocks, you too could
buy a fake flack flock from.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
These products and services, and we are back.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, so let's get into what's been happening in kind
of present day. The thing that's really interesting to me
about like about the way that sort of Mexican turf
stuff works is that they in a way that's kind
I don't know, American TERFs kind of work like this,
Like they really function in a very similar way to
like left social movements, right, except that they're like newer
(23:28):
world social movement for evil. But it's like like they
have a lot of the same kind of like strengths
and weaknesses that that like conventional like social movements have,
which I think ties into a lot of what's going
to happen to them and the fact that you can
you know, and in the same way that you can
co opt to social movement, like they're also vulnerable to that.
Speaker 7 (23:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Well when money d I saw and like the options
are stop organizing. As a feminist, like I cannot tell
you how many lesbian services turfs are married and pregnant.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Now, it's like.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
They just dropped that shit like shame and dropped them
like Shama didn't do it of the kindness of her heart.
I think she realized that this was a vulnerability. She
needed to convince like the Jacobins of the world that
she was this socialist president like Amblo but even better
now in feminist form, and she really couldn't do that
if there was like these huge like people who didn't
(24:24):
even pay attention to Mexican politics but just jk rowling,
Like this was just a huge vulnerability.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
She also didn't want this mostly to be a debate.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
I heard rumors and I buy them completely, Like that
she pushed for no trans women being legislators in our congress. Ye,
because we had we had two before. One of them
stopped ass and the other one was kind of fine,
like just normal lefty centrist woman.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
The other one was just horrible. So it's honestly, I'm
going with it.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, that's the situation we're about to have here, where
like we're gonna get our first trapser of a congress.
Bitch is absolutely dog shit like terrible Zietists.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
Like, yeah, they were to work with they consistently.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
I think they were just there to like waste her
fucking time that you would have a meeting with them.
It should so should we like pass this legislation saying
that you can have like no gender on your voter ready, and.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
That took the whole six years Jesus Christ, and I
didn't even want.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
It, like I haven't even changed my legal things, so
like it's not my priority. But it was a lot
of people's priorities, and they kind of wasted our whole
communities time.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
But even that was not enough.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
I think Shama just didn't want headlines, Like she was
content for other other people.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
To handle the quote unquote debate.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
She didn't want anything to do with it because she
it only cost her. Like the reason she defended some
terms is that some of them were like loyal to her,
and that's what she wanted. She wanted loyalty because she
needed party loyalty to like have a tight grip on
Monna because what she knew, she could win pretty easily.
(26:07):
She didn't need to appeal to the right or the
center right, and good for her, Like I'm an antil electoralist,
but like electoralists should not fucking listen to suburban moms, Like.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
Who gives a shit.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, going more to the left is, to a certain extent,
is better electorally, Like just look at the numbers between
Paris and buy them. And it's just vibes. It's not
even like real policy, but just the vibes. Like you
don't need you don't need to listen to pan voters
because they're Pan voters.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
They're not gonna vote for Monna.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
And like the right here in Mexico is really weird
because like they have this really like neo liberal view,
but their culture is so aristocratic.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
It's kind of like what if thems were like very.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Stories, like because they hate hate for people, not like
Republicans hate for people, like because they also pretend to
be for people. Panistas don't. They lost half because Shane
Bawn really took hold of moderna structure and mobilized it
to vote in a way that was unprecedented, even more
than Anlo's vote. And because like Panisa just couldn't shut
(27:10):
up about how racist they are. They were just constantly
saying the most horrible shit about Morena voters. And there
were campaigns by pant saying go vote because they thought
that like Amlo is like a dictator, because they really
think that everyone is addicted. Everyone that's to the left
of Mussolini is a dictator and almost a dictator, So
go out and vote. They thought, like citizen participation is
(27:32):
gonna destroy the Anblo regime from We're gonna be back
to Mexico instead of being not and.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
So.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
But the thing is, when you send most of the
population to vote, they're not gonna vote for like the
most repugnant, classiest people ever. And the candidate they chose
was not a foreign candidate like such a Galvez was
an indigenous woman. Like they thought they were gonna outflank
shame and with that, but they didn't like she success
(28:07):
such a tool.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
She's not far right.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
She used to be in Perde, which was also an
un lost party, but she was part of like when
when Pang got into power in two thousand, she was
the one in charge of the negotiation with the Elena
and she betrayed the Sapatistas.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
She was not gonna get any indigenous vote, like so
this is the first time the right does this, right,
like pun did the fucking classic damn thing of like
offering a wired down version of the the other candidate,
and they lost enormously and a lot of turfs. To
get back to the topic, a lot of ters bet
on both of them, they were really hedging. They wanted
(28:45):
to be especially more institutional terms. They said, as long
as we get a women president, we're gonna be cool.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Yeah. That like backfired on them.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Yeah, oh yeah, Like Shamba, like I said, what she
cares about is loyalty. She didn't care about brad films
because she believed in them, just like she didn't care
about trans people because she believed in us. She wanted
loyal like loyal dogs. And if you are hedging your beds,
yeah you and she wins with sixty percent, you're not
gonna see a single cent from the arms.
Speaker 7 (29:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
She kind of Okay, this is like this is an
absolutely deranged comparison, but she kind of reminds me of
Jin Ping in the way that, like the way the
way that Chijinping does politics is by.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
Every single more ina geopolitics, not just fainted.
Speaker 8 (29:28):
When you say that, she's to say no, because like
Chijin Ping's like political style is sort of you know,
he's been he's been very very good at like like
centralizing the bureaucracy around him and sort of like neutralizing
social moves.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
And this has been a classic.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Like a sort of long range like post culture revolution
like Chinese comedies party, think of like we need to
make sure there's not treat movements we need to sort
of neutralize.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Yeah, it's also aims, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, but it's also like you know, Jiji Ping sort
of very much is also like a loyalty guy, right,
He's like, you know, he he will he will sort
of set up anti corruption things to like per people
who are like aren't loyal to him, because that's you know,
that's that's the way that this kind of like centralizing
politics works, and it's it's traspa is really interesting that
like we're seeing this with we're saying this with the TERFs.
(30:14):
Route was like, well, you guys, like I'm sorry, you
guys weren't fucking loyal enough. So like each ship you're
gonna get get ed coruption campaigned.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
There's people that we proted that are super close to
Shamebelnd that we were really scared would get government positions
and were TERFs. They didn't get shipped. There's no like
trans legislature, but there's also no terf legislators. Yeah, there's
a world where that could have happened that we would
have been fucked. I think without our protests, like not
just the ones we organized from my collective, the d
(30:46):
Decids kind of know that we were focused on some
of the closest to Shamebeln but like every transperson knew that,
like this was something real lad and we kind of
put a stop to it. But and it'll been a
stalemate because again, what Shame did was defend her loyal
terms and she moved them to positions outside of the
spotlight honestly more suited to their to their Italians, Like
(31:09):
her terms were not really charismatic. She was trying to
set them up like as influencers and like they just had.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
There's no juice at all.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
That is a classics like just being the most juiceless
motherfuckers and the planet.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Absolutely and like really in concuring politics. Yeah, because like
they again they were they were kind of like they're
more like lefty in discourse.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
They were very nationalists obviously, but also like they were.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Hyping how feminist she was and like, oh, we're gonna
confront American imperialism and while at the same time like
being obsessed with like British TERFs.
Speaker 5 (31:47):
So like it was really contradictory.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
So Morena calls their movement, like the forty the fourth Transformation,
which is like just I won't even get into it.
It's just such a fucking bizarre thing.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Did have a transformation or something? Was he also doing
the fourth Transformation?
Speaker 3 (32:03):
It's like no, no, it's like the Independence when we
kicked Francis ass and then revolution. Those are the three
and then and then the fourth is him right, like
he's saying like I'm I'm Benita quaas reborn and uh yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Cringe, but like it's stuck.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Honestly, I use it because like it's such a good
shorthand because morena is so large, such such a big word,
and its salts.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
Cringe because like.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Morena, which means morena means like brown skin. So and
also like bon morena, which is like Mexico's virgin mary,
so very queen. Even for quarter is even less cringe.
So yeah, sure, whatever, But like one of the most
famous Mexican Mexican feminists started calling them the quarter.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Oh my god, and that stocks.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
It's really fucking look like it, so that stock.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
But basically quarter is not out of power like the
most ambitious ones and the most purely turfs got quick
kicked out and the loyal dogs got sent to do
like other jobs. Like they're now talking to academics about
like green progressive socialism and shit, like they're just doing
talks in like with like eighty year old tenured professors
and like that is still riskin and there's we're still
(33:15):
watching them closely. But I think Simon told them, like
I'm gonna protect you, but you need to shut the
fuck up.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
You better not.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Say the word rands for six years, go go knots afterwards.
But you're gonna have a job and you're gonna have
a possibility of returning and that I'm not gonna help you.
That's on you, and like, honestly, at least that's a
fair playing field.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
I'll take it. I'll fucking take it.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
So yeah, I guess like the state of things seems
to be that the deal is we're just gonna take
like trans people as a political issue off the table
for yeah, whatever many years.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Well, I think we're we're gonna she's gonna let like
states handle it, like if a trans law assess in
a state, she's gonna let it. And I don't think
anti translats are gonna have a.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
Good time interesting trying to pass because the Right Age ship.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah, they really thought they were gonna at least have
a competitive edge, and no one voted. And again like
there's a lot of Turfs that were more aligned with
the far right, but they were not acting like it.
The rhetoric didn't look until a couple of months ago,
like the rhetoric that Britain or the US turfs have
(34:28):
both types of US turf that I think there's we
have every single type of irf here in Mexico. If
you can think of a type of nerf, we have it.
I think Britain is mostly wine moms and the US
is both angio freaks and like hippie where those like
ex anarchists, they bring resistance types right, like.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Yeah, well I need to draw the light here, damnit.
But the decree resistance people were never anarchists. They were
always they were always weird primitivist. But like vang like
Vanguard is primitivists.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, I know, I love that our recalled by Julie
who accompanied me in the least episode about someone fing
a hot dog and it fucking rules. But yeah, right,
like we had that, like we even have like a
deep rear system to Mexico thing going on for like
a couple of years. So Mexican terms here that align
(35:18):
themselves with the far right are gonna see both less
resources because the far right is healing some Bruce Eagles,
So the Writing Front gonna have to go full fascist,
which oh they.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Will, Yeah many such cases.
Speaker 5 (35:32):
Yeah, they can.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
No longer get money from like your center right, like
respectable democracy people who are basically are just right. They
don't they They spend most of their time like just
complaining how like Maduro and Amlow and like treating like
everyone's the same thing because the only thing they want
is like just they want new liberalism, and I'm tired
(35:56):
of telling them we have new liberalism, ye, Like why
am I just new realism with a little bit of
just enough like welfare state to like keep everything from
blowing up. So yeah, this that's the case here. They
ate shit, They don't have money, so they either have
to find local fascists with which they have or they
have to appeal to Brits with things like the boxing scandal.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Yeah, and that sort of brings us full circle to
like I guess literally the present day, as in like
the time this is being recorded, where their big attempts
to like generate a bunch of revenue for themselves and
like bring themselves back in the spotlight has kind of
blown up with their faces.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
Yeah and listen.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
One of the few good parts of like modernask co
option of feminism is that some previously, like I don't
want to say controversial, but like, there were really a
lot of campaigns to try to remove prestige from any
any prominent trans inclusive feminists in Mexico. Mexican academia and
Mexican like high feminism really started to go full Wratham
(37:06):
in twenty sixteen, and it started by trying to attack
any single prestigious feminist that was not a TERRF. Chief
amongst them is Marta Lamas, who I love her. She's
extremely live, but like, I still love her because she
she comes from a history of like not quite radical
but not quite radical Mexican academia that like says she
(37:30):
like reformist in method radical in objectives.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Sure, sure, but she at least.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Thinks it's true and lives by it. And she is
if you want to read stuff by her. She has
one of the best accounts of the history of sex
work in Mexico. Full water and Anache, a fantastic book,
fully recommended.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
Yeah, we'll put a link to that in the description.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Yeah, so she got into like the mayor of Mexico
City's team. She is now in Clara Brugala's team, and
Clara is like the front runner for the next presidential candidate.
She is not Chambain's friend. So my suspicion is that
Shaban is keeping her terfsunreserved to push.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
Back against Clara.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Oh interesting to.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Find another female candidate and proper up as the feminist
successor to Claudia or a male candidate like she needs
like feminists on her side on reserve to combat like Clara.
Who Clara again, it's further to live than Chamblaine, and
she doesn't.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
Come from an academic background.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
She comes from a grassroots urban movement background in the
like thehood of Mexico City. In turn, Brugada needs more
institutional and like legit support. And Marta Lamas while she
was controversial because of TERFs smearing her, but she is
Marta fucking Lamas and she is white as hell. So
Clara got her in her team and now she gets
(38:54):
to be the chief leftist feminist in Mexico because like,
if Kadia starts sucking so much about feminism, well she's
a Google search away from.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
Like turf scandals.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
Yeah yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Nata really pushed back against turf influence in Mona, which
I'm really frank like, if you're gonna be co opted this,
that's the least amount of like allyship you need to do.
Speaker 6 (39:16):
All right?
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah yeah, even push the turfs out from your like
fucking mansion.
Speaker 5 (39:21):
We can push X to the to the left, Well,
then do it.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
I people love saying they want to push politicians to
the left, and then don't push push politicians.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
To the left. They just want to lose the critic power.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
Yeah. Yeah, is there anything else that you want to
make sure we get you before we wrap up?
Speaker 3 (39:41):
I think wrapping up to the Readogs magazine. Keep an
eye on like those kinds of places that are trying
to connect things, because we already saw that this can
spill over from Mexico or Brazil or Korea.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
I think Korea is gonna be bad.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
So the thing about Korea I haven't done much about.
We probably will at some point cover this stuff in Korea.
Korea is having a really really sort of unbelievable sort
of anti feminist backlash. But this has also had the
impact of like really empowering the rat femmes. Yeah, and
it's it's a complete catastrophe.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah, I would really advise against idealizing feminist movements.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
Ealesworth. Yeah, do your research.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Don't just accept on face value that like a face
you know from a third word country is gonna.
Speaker 5 (40:36):
Be like the voice of the Global South. That's just
not fucking true.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Like, if you hear a face of the Global South,
it's probably because there's.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
Money behind it.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Like, yeah, unless you're really deep and know your shit,
the first thing that's gonna show up is gonna have
money behind it.
Speaker 5 (40:52):
So be really careful.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
With other feminist ones. I saw how people idealized Mexican
feminism not knowing just how deep both infiltrated by the
government and.
Speaker 5 (41:03):
Paid by fire red groups, and that really backfire.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Like one of the only survivors of right leaning but
left presenting feminists that's called Brujas Mara. Yeah, they're probably
the only europe that's going to survive during the Shamebane presidence.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Yeah, big turf group.
Speaker 5 (41:19):
Yeah, they never tried.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
To get close to Shamba, but also they never dropped
the mask fully and they're one of the biggest pushers
of name imanything. Not the originators, those are the more
internationally connected, but they were the biggest pushers of it.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
They have the most followers. They really prison narrative.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
They were featured in Times one hundred, like AARUSIONDA was
Times one hundred from Mexico. So be really careful of
who you think are supporting. Yeah, because this is going
to be happening. I think it's it might be over
for now in Mexico and we I think we didn't win,
but maybe we can stop them from researching in five
years or so, and then I think that would really
(41:57):
steal the deal. But this is going to be happening
everywhere where. You're gonna see it a lot in like
African feminist movements, in South Southeast Asian feminist movements. You're
gonna see it pop up all over the world. Take
a lesson from Mexico and look for trans folks over there,
ask them, hey, is this person cool?
Speaker 4 (42:16):
Yeah, just the minimum.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Do diligence before, like sharing gofundsman ship, like please, for
the love of.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
God, we again. A toler goes a long way here.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
So if if feel like you give something that would
barely cover rent for someone in the United States, that's
enough to set up an organization here, yeah, and really
fuck local politics for years to come.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
So I don't know, Please be careful.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
So if people want to find you and the stuff
that you do that is not ship, where can they
find you?
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Well, I'm on x everything apps as a flores and
also i have a podcast called Fatista Knkrema. It's a
really good point in Spanish, trust me. And I'm also
trying to launch a project that's gonna be like a
sort of media watchdoggy thing. Again, we were working with
(43:09):
like sense here, so it's gonna.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
Take a while.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Yeah, I keep an eye out if I don't know,
if you if you wanna learn more stuff about Mexican
like what's going on beyond, like either far right news
like that saw Shambane in a photograph with a trans
flag and friked out, or just like people who take
everything at face value and believe that Chamber One is
the second coming of Marx.
Speaker 5 (43:31):
So I don't know. I'll try to keep folks posted
because it's.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Complicated, Like, yeah, it took us an hour to talk
about even just one topic.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
Yeah, things complicated? Who who?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Who could possibly have guessed that? You know, it's it's
difficult to understand, very complue to political configurations.
Speaker 5 (43:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
So yeah, for now I'm only on xicus and YouTube
again for Conkrema I do I stream on Twitch. Honestly,
this is gonna sound maybe you're gonna gonna call this,
but I really admire y'all. Like, honestly, I both that
and not a little bit of envy. I wish there's
(44:12):
not a really an ecosystem of like content creation or
news from a leftist perspective here.
Speaker 5 (44:18):
Like most of the people again, a lot of them
also got co opted.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
A lot of friends I had in like independent leftists
publishing and news in Mexico are now like full on
like just modern spokespeople. Or they went insane and anti
vax and like now they're far right. Well yeah, many
such cases. Yeah, so this is where they could app here.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
You can find us in the places and until then,
I defeat your local TERFs.
Speaker 5 (44:46):
Yeah, and don't become.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
Jimidor back to.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
It could happen here as a production of coulsone Media
for more podcasts, Cool Zone media. Visit our website coolzonemedia
dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can
find sources for It could happen here, Updated monthly at
coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
All zone media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
When therefore a man is told you your inner being
are so and so because your skull bone is so constituted,
this means nothing else than that we regard a bone
as the man's reality. To retort upon such a statement,
the retort here would properly speaking, have to go to
(00:25):
the link, so breaking the skull of the person who
makes a statement like that, in order to demonstrate to
him in a manner as palpable as his own wisdom,
that a bone is nothing of an inherent nature at
all for a man still less his true reality. Welcome
tock da here, I'm your host, Bia Wong. That was
the man himself, George Wilhelm Frederick Hegel from the Phenomenology
(00:47):
of Mind.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I'm gonna go full Ceesar shape post here like that's
not Hegel?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Lovely and with the iss as as you have just heard.
Is Emmie Flores, a queer socialist in Mexico City who's
we've had on the show before to talk about Mexican turfs,
has worked with Zappotisea Networks, and we are once again,
I think, delving into the terrifying, extremely well organized worlds
of Mexican turfs, and I guess this is kind of
(01:20):
a they're eating a bit of shit episode.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Oh yeah, which is good.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
We have good news in this show.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Whoo very rare occurrence we have. We have a little
bit of good news. Yeah. Also, welcome to the show.
Excited to have you back.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I love the show, and I'm happy to update because
last time we left on a real sour note and
this time, I mean, it's not exactly fantastic news, but
things are looking up in this specific part, and I
think you're going to introduce us to a massive double
we just got worldwide.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, so we ended up not doing a full episode
on this, but one of the big sort of stories
for the last few weeks.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
And I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
When this episode is gonna be coming out, so maybe
this is gonna be ancient news by that point. But
the day we're recording this is like one day after
the Aegerian boxer in mon khalif U I won the
gold medal of the Olympics. She has been I mean,
this story has been sort of beaten to death, but
like she's been like accused of being a man and
being like transgender, and like all of this shit from
(02:26):
a whole bunch of like I mean, everyone from like
Elon Musk to like jk Rowling to Meggan. Kelly's losing
her mind about it. I forgot she even existed until this,
but she's apparently around and doing.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
This, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So so I think people sort of know the basics
of this story, but there's a part of the story
about sort of you know, I will, I guess we'll
probably get into a little bit of this about how
a lot of this is sort of manufactured by a
bunch of incredibly sore losers and like weird transphobes in
a incredibly corrupt like Russian ran boxing association, right right.
(03:01):
But the other side of this, it has gotten absolutely
zero coverage anywhere. Is that a huge amount of the
attacks against against her were started by the Mexican Turf Network.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Yeah, and so.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Presently one of the few coverages I've seen has been
in Mexican like feminist news, which is like part of
the things that have changed since then, like Mexican and
Latin American feminists have realized, oh, we fucked up, and
we're trying to fix our mistakes. But sadly, I think
the world suffered one of our latest mistakes.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, so can you tell us about sort of how
this whole thing started, which I think is like several
years earlier than most people seem to really like understand.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I think the corruption angle that we might expand a
little bit more, that is the beginning of it. And
I think it was a little bit and then it
was like in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Let's be real, she won gold.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I was not bidding on her winning gold. Like, she's
really good, but she's not like the buffest out there.
It's pure racism and convenience that she's been labeled and
targeted the way the way she is because like you
see her opponents and there are the buffiest girls I've
ever seen in my life. They're incredible, Like every single
(04:20):
athlete up there is amazing. And took pictures of her
and say, you're telling me this is not a man
Like she's like a little bit skinny, honestly, Like she's
really tall, so she has to be skinny to be
competing that way.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It's like have you have people ever seen a boxer before,
Like it's just bad, Like one of.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
The boxers that defended her, like she was offended, Like
you're telling me that I've been in many before and
like I didn't even qualify for these years Olympics. Like
she's not invincible, even if this is probably her best
best performance. Yeah, she really shown on the spotlight. I
love her, but like she's not extremely muscular or anything.
Not that being muscular is masculine, but like this was
(05:01):
really just both racism and convenience. But part of that
is uh. One of the first people who started complaining
about this after the corrupt Russian Russian oliger Glad bucks
in Federation that got disqualified from the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, like again I want to I want to pause here,
and everyone like take note of this. Do you understand
how corrupt of an organization do you have to be
for the fucking Olympics to stop working with you? Like
you have to make the Chicago fucking machine look squeaky
clean for for the Olympics to not work.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Like we're talking about every single other sport is also
wing ship like this, Like they just went to greedy
like they like it some Russian oligarch that got into
fights with people during the war in Ukraine and then
they didn't stop doing corruption, Like they couldn't just take
a year break, they.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
Had to push. Yeah, they had to play two dirty.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
So at the end of the day, Imanicat disqualified with like,
trust me, pro levels of citations for her. No one
knew for a while what was the thing that disqualified her.
What was it hormones or chromosomes, vibes? It turns out
it's mostly vibes. Yeah, And so when when she got
disqualified from a not an Olympic event, but uh corrupt
(06:27):
Russian arclead event, a former boxer who lost against her,
who's from Mexico, who sucks ass like she's really dog shit.
She started posting pictures of her ruses after the match,
and honestly, she reminds me of the Italian boxer that
also got her ship rocks. Yeah, because they keep She
(06:50):
did perform very well in many at the at the
end when when she got gold, but the very first
like matches she got were against like how did these
people get here?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, like that that Italian boxer, Like this is the
only time I will ever say this about something that
happened in the Olympics.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
It's like the Italian boxer threw the.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Worst punch I've ever seen and then instantly got punched
by like the most obvious punch of the entire world
in the face.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
It's like, wait, what are you doing? How did you
get here?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Like and like I won't go deep into why why
Brianda Tamara sucks so much as because that would have
been the episode we ended up not doing, but suffice
it to say, like she's just not in that level.
She didn't qualify for a reason this time. But and
also I noticed that she was waiting to do her
pro deview right now, like something fill planned about all
(07:40):
of this. Yeah, Like she she announced that she retired
from amateur boxing, which you know, not honestly is the
more legit boxing, don't at me. And she she's going
bro which means she's now charging for tickets. And she
announced her pro deview the same day that this whole
like bundles started for international people watching the Olympics, Like
(08:03):
she very much knew that the people were gonna try something.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, so she so she's using this just like boxing promoting, yeah,
pretty much, which is like the shady shit, Yeah, boxing.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Promoting in Cinela, which like if you know anything about Mexico,
that's that's gonna.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
Be a couple of red less oh boy. But so
the thing is, why did she knew that she was
gonna happen? Really says a lot about how international terms.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Are operating nowadays, right like I don't want to get
all fucking Russia Gate and like like have my fucking
prosecure body pillow like some leaves have. But terms are
trying to get money and influence anywhere they can, and
some of them are trying to get in from Russia,
right like yeah, it's if they're already putting people in
concretion camps in China, like they say, hell, yeah, I
(08:53):
want me some of that. And you know the Brits
are something too focused on Britain. You need something international
to make them. Money flowed down to Latin America, especially
out of Spain. Spain kind of hawks it all for themselves.
The first news site that took the years ago translated
it to English is called Redox Magazine. Like that, I
think it's a Canadian joint Redos. It's the only side
(09:17):
I've seen in all of like the turf landscape that
only publishes in English and Spanish. Like it's very clearly
a fulcrum for like terf organizing in Latin America and
in the anglosphere. And I don't think it's a coincidence
that this story broke quote unquote, like the first people
(09:39):
who commented on this and like renewed the accusations of
Imani being trans was Redocs and then other like transphobic
boxing coaches from Italy and England and the United States
started picking up the story. But that was after like
the more diplomatically minded Mexican term and Spanish TERFs that
(10:01):
usually don't work together.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Again, they don't like to share.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Listen, Mexico doesn't have the best relationship with Spain for
allvious reasons. Yeah, but even then, like ass spaces for
TERFs in Mexico had been closing, they're looking for funding
from other places. Right, the turf gambit didn't work quite
well in Mexico, so they're trying to look for international
sponsor sponsorships, and they thought they had hit a big
(10:27):
one here. They had the attention of the entire world.
People were sharing Brianda's photos because like again Brianda doesn't
have it's not a good boxer, so she looks like
a young short prelated like beer barista, and put her
against like someone who's like a head taller that beat
her ass because she she sucks.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
They couldn't ask for a very propaganda.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, but it really backfired when the entire world went,
what what are you talking about? Yeah, but I think
it worked for Mexican TERFs. I think that they might
get like a couple of grants here and there they're
back in the railar at least internationally.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
And that's why I.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Think coming here is really important because we didn't win precisely,
and we'll get to that, but at least we're in
a stalemate, and I think they're trying to look for
either allies or honestly job s elsewhere.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
They might just want a spot in Riddos.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Magazine, like to get into like be able to move
to Britain or shit like that.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I think it is just something that is important about
the Mexican TERFs, which is like unlike in the US,
where there's just this like unbelievably large pot of money
that you can tap into from like the Heritry Foundation
and like all of these sort of like right wing
think tanks. It's like the funding is a lot harder
to come by.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
We all have troubles getting funding.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, any type of small grant that would be a
nothing burger in America goes a long way here, right,
And so the far right has been really smart pushing.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Stuff, but it hasn't really paid diviends.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
And uh, it's all gonna write up for a while, honestly,
especially with like how the economy is going.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
I think in the age of infinite.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Money of twenty twenty, like they were willing to throw
more money at like a long shot that in Brasila
or Mexico right now. They got to bring something to
the table, and they tried to bring in money, and
they I think they fucking ate shit.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Hell yeah, So okay, you know what else brings something
to the table? It is the products and services that
I put food on my table. I guess God all
the other pars.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
Of this.
Speaker 7 (12:37):
Here are these ads and we are back.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So I wanted to kind of move to talking about
what's been happening in this sort of Mexican feminist scene
in in terms of sort of what's what's been going
on with turf since the election of the new Mexican president,
Claudia Shamebomb. Who's I don't know, Like I think a
lot of Americans, I think the conception of her is
that she's like significantly further left and she actually is.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Oh yeah, like I you know what, I felt so
much Scott and Freud when like people started talking about
Kamala like she was gonna end aparthype and and the general.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
Side, and I was like, how does see it? Fucking
feel sorry?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I got really angry at every single article no one
talked her correctly, like both the far right and the
left thought she was significantly to the left, like everyone said, like, oh,
finally a feminist Jewish woman, and like the Jewish Party
is gonna play a part because like I do feel
we're gonna see a rise in anti Semitism in Mexico,
a big one. Like I feel like a Birther style
(13:48):
movement from when Obama was lifted coming up and it's
gonna play again. I see Claudia shamebamb She's not just
an extension of Amla, and she is I would say,
not further to the left then, and there's whatever, but
she has less right wing things, right, It's not like
she's better than anload, she's just less worse.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
She's she because like almost.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Like an old Christian guy, like and I do mean
Christian like this is a Catholic country, Anamlod is like
I think it's he's like Pentecostal or something like he's
never needed like what his relatives said, but he did
do like weird right wing things, especially culturally, well I
mean not everywhere right, Like we got hell of militarized,
like half our infrastructure is owned by the military now,
(14:35):
which is like just Jack Carton metoying ourselves like for free.
And he goes on brands about how drugs are caused
by buying video games and like like he like for
for a week, try to like say we should ban Fortnite.
That didn't know anywhere, and I think it was just
because his son didn't stop playing it.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Maybe he he overspent on the family credit. But like yeah,
he's very like he.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Has a very Christian morality and it's a weird fit
with Mexicans Catholic one in the weirdest way. Like his
very like work will like very Protestant ethics guy, and
people didn't talk about that and now they think Claudia
is gonna bring like Jewish ethics and no, she's like
just like a Mexican scientist, like professional, like she's very
(15:26):
much a scientist at least that that's her self conception
and how she operates. And she I think a lot
of people underestimated her, like they just saw her as
an appendage of Handlow, like with no real political document
or skill of herself. She doesn't really have a base
of voters. Again, she's like an academic, like her base
of voters are college graduates left lining college garrets, but
(15:51):
not too left learning because otherwise you'll see, like, hey,
please stop.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Militaries in our country.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
And so we didn't expect her to to who win
with like the margins that she did. She won with
historic margins, more votes than a logout. It's just she's
so fucking.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
Shrud And this ties to the TERFs because like four
years we were really worried because.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Like we thought she was a turf, Like we straight
up thought she was a turf, even though she passed
some of the largest like trans positive legislations in Mexico
City that was more like momentum from Mexico City being
like this progressive center of Mexican politics. And like, I know,
I participated in getting that law pass like like she
wasn't happy about that. She basically was trying to get
(16:37):
some Heritage Foundation funded folks to sit in a table
and like have a big discussion, like a very very
centrist thing of like let's listen to both sides. And
it's because she had like some of the og turfs
from Mexico, like from some of them, like that started
in the seventies, Like people who knew Jennys Raymond when
she was young were literally in Morena structure, like during
(17:00):
twenty twenty, like the Women's Agenda for Morena was set
by turfs, by some of the the worst turfs, like
some of the most internationally well connected turfs too, right,
and that was a huge problem. We managed to push
back against that with protests, with like talking to politicians,
like not really begging, we just you know, that's a
(17:20):
nice wind you have there.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
That would be a shame thing happened too.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And also that by like my my collective, like we
started focusing on like oh god, I don't want to
say anymore becaus like since since Ukraine, like saying, oh,
since it's so Crain. But like we started like investigating
and like tracking, like these people start showing up in
like government positions.
Speaker 5 (17:44):
That was really worrying.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Some of them were like very clearly affiliated with the
far right, but some of them were they came from
like union jobs on and she like that, or they
were like they were the anarchists throwing bricks that walls
like a year ago, and we started seeing them get
co opted slowly, and we were really scared. But then
(18:07):
I think we underestimated that Claudia was playing us, but
she was also playing them, like she is.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
A really shrewd political operator, and she.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Gave TERFs enough to get them to do what TERFs
do best, which is break up feminist organizing. Yeah, so
whatever Cloudy I could not directly co opt to like
get like leaders, there were some like black Blocks in
Mexico whose leaders like literally had in their linkedins that
they were like doing.
Speaker 5 (18:36):
Like black blood shit.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Oh my god, I know, it's incredible, And.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
It just gave everything away because the same person who
did that had in her LinkedIn like a year previously
that she was like an eighty for a Morena congress woman.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
And yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Think what Morena did was infiltrate a lot of black
Blocks to neutralize because during twenty twenty two years after
Amlo got elected, like Mexican feminists were I would say
the biggest fire in social movements in Mexico, like with
the Sapatistas getting surrounded by state sponsored narco cartels and stuff,
(19:15):
like they were really paralyzed and with COVID and everything
like that, like a lot of other organizing got real damaged.
But feminists were like they were trying to get abortion passed,
and they succeeded for most of it. But like institutional
feminists succeeded banning abortion and more independent or street anarchists,
(19:37):
socialist based feminists, they suddenly didn't have anything to demand,
so they either got kushi government jobs, or they got arrested,
or they helped the police arrest people, like by being
like clearly just like you know the classic like eight
people get arrested and one of them gets out in
(19:58):
like a week, and it's like ah yeah. And so
like feminists got are road awakening, and before they were
more permissive like cool feminists like real leftists, socialists and
queer feminists were more permissive of turfs during like the
twenty sixteen two twenty twenty two because they thought, like
(20:18):
we need unity within feminism, we need to like get
a version passed, we need to like combat both the
far right and anulost conservatism, and well they won, and
a bunch of their leaders got go up to we
have an epidemic of like feminist activists passing laws.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
With their names.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Like the one movement that got defeated the worst is
anti car solo feminism. Like forget about abolitionism in the
carcal sense. It's no one gave a shit about that.
Even anarchists were trying to pass laws to like lay
Olivia to scalp thats who haven't paid child support. Like
they really bet everything on punitivism. And that's the thing
(20:59):
that united like every single segment of feminism, including ratference centers,
Like they love.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
Putting people in jail. It's their whole entire deal.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
And so, but the thing is, that's the way you
get You co opt someone, You just tell her okay,
instead of like being an archopunk like doing tagging government buildings.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
What if I just give you a shit a lot
of money and I pay for.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
You to go to fancy hotels in every state and
like talk about how important it is that we throw
your x into a.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
Into a meat processing machine for like breaking up with you.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, and I mean I'm being believed, like there's horrible shit,
like we have to pass a lot to like give
more time to people who through asset at women's faces, right,
but like.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
That's already legal. It's already legal.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I don't know if it's gonna work that well, especially
because like I think one of the most biggest cases
of like a literal trafficker just got off jail this
week and he literally tortured one of Mexico's biggest rod films,
And it's like, what did he you did? Did this
all for nothing? Like you're just gonna like lock up
(22:09):
more poor people and like rich assholes are gonna walk free. Yeah,
and so yeah, that was twenty twenty. Then it got
co opted and just like Claudia gave us some loss
for trans people.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
She put turfs in government positions.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
We protested that, and then she dropped them, like she
really did a andy with.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Woody, like I don't want to play with you anymore.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Like once she neutralized the feminist movement, once there were
like there was no threat of escalation, she really didn't
need the black the fake black blocks, She just you
know dropped them.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, And speaking of fake black blocks, you too could
buy a fake flack flock from.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
These products and services, and we are back.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, so let's get into what's been happening in kind
of present day. The thing that's really interesting to me
about like about the way that sort of Mexican turf
stuff works is that they in a way that's kind
I don't know, American TERFs kind of work like this,
Like they really function in a very similar way to
like left social movements, right, except that they're like newer
(23:28):
world social movement for evil. But it's like like they
have a lot of the same kind of like strengths
and weaknesses that that like conventional like social movements have,
which I think ties into a lot of what's going
to happen to them and the fact that you can
you know, and in the same way that you can
co opt to social movement, like they're also vulnerable to that.
Speaker 7 (23:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Well when money d I saw and like the options
are stop organizing. As a feminist, like I cannot tell
you how many lesbian services turfs are married and pregnant.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Now, it's like.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
They just dropped that shit like shame and dropped them
like Shama didn't do it of the kindness of her heart.
I think she realized that this was a vulnerability. She
needed to convince like the Jacobins of the world that
she was this socialist president like Amblo but even better
now in feminist form, and she really couldn't do that
if there was like these huge like people who didn't
(24:24):
even pay attention to Mexican politics but just jk rowling,
Like this was just a huge vulnerability.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
She also didn't want this mostly to be a debate.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
I heard rumors and I buy them completely, Like that
she pushed for no trans women being legislators in our congress. Ye,
because we had we had two before. One of them
stopped ass and the other one was kind of fine,
like just normal lefty centrist woman.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
The other one was just horrible. So it's honestly, I'm
going with it.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, that's the situation we're about to have here, where
like we're gonna get our first trapser of a congress.
Bitch is absolutely dog shit like terrible Zietists.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
Like, yeah, they were to work with they consistently.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
I think they were just there to like waste her
fucking time that you would have a meeting with them.
It should so should we like pass this legislation saying
that you can have like no gender on your voter ready, and.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
That took the whole six years Jesus Christ, and I
didn't even want.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
It, like I haven't even changed my legal things, so
like it's not my priority. But it was a lot
of people's priorities, and they kind of wasted our whole
communities time.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
But even that was not enough.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
I think Shama just didn't want headlines, Like she was
content for other other people.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
To handle the quote unquote debate.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
She didn't want anything to do with it because she
it only cost her. Like the reason she defended some
terms is that some of them were like loyal to her,
and that's what she wanted. She wanted loyalty because she
needed party loyalty to like have a tight grip on
Monna because what she knew, she could win pretty easily.
(26:07):
She didn't need to appeal to the right or the
center right, and good for her, Like I'm an antil electoralist,
but like electoralists should not fucking listen to suburban moms, Like.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
Who gives a shit.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, going more to the left is, to a certain extent,
is better electorally, Like just look at the numbers between
Paris and buy them. And it's just vibes. It's not
even like real policy, but just the vibes. Like you
don't need you don't need to listen to pan voters
because they're Pan voters.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
They're not gonna vote for Monna.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
And like the right here in Mexico is really weird
because like they have this really like neo liberal view,
but their culture is so aristocratic.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
It's kind of like what if thems were like very.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Stories, like because they hate hate for people, not like
Republicans hate for people, like because they also pretend to
be for people. Panistas don't. They lost half because Shane
Bawn really took hold of moderna structure and mobilized it
to vote in a way that was unprecedented, even more
than Anlo's vote. And because like Panisa just couldn't shut
(27:10):
up about how racist they are. They were just constantly
saying the most horrible shit about Morena voters. And there
were campaigns by pant saying go vote because they thought
that like Amlo is like a dictator, because they really
think that everyone is addicted. Everyone that's to the left
of Mussolini is a dictator and almost a dictator, So
go out and vote. They thought, like citizen participation is
(27:32):
gonna destroy the Anblo regime from We're gonna be back
to Mexico instead of being not and.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
So.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
But the thing is, when you send most of the
population to vote, they're not gonna vote for like the
most repugnant, classiest people ever. And the candidate they chose
was not a foreign candidate like such a Galvez was
an indigenous woman. Like they thought they were gonna outflank
shame and with that, but they didn't like she success
(28:07):
such a tool.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
She's not far right.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
She used to be in Perde, which was also an
un lost party, but she was part of like when
when Pang got into power in two thousand, she was
the one in charge of the negotiation with the Elena
and she betrayed the Sapatistas.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
She was not gonna get any indigenous vote, like so
this is the first time the right does this, right,
like pun did the fucking classic damn thing of like
offering a wired down version of the the other candidate,
and they lost enormously and a lot of turfs. To
get back to the topic, a lot of ters bet
on both of them, they were really hedging. They wanted
(28:45):
to be especially more institutional terms. They said, as long
as we get a women president, we're gonna be cool.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Yeah. That like backfired on them.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Yeah, oh yeah, Like Shamba, like I said, what she
cares about is loyalty. She didn't care about brad films
because she believed in them, just like she didn't care
about trans people because she believed in us. She wanted
loyal like loyal dogs. And if you are hedging your beds,
yeah you and she wins with sixty percent, you're not
gonna see a single cent from the arms.
Speaker 7 (29:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
She kind of Okay, this is like this is an
absolutely deranged comparison, but she kind of reminds me of
Jin Ping in the way that, like the way the
way that Chijinping does politics is by.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
Every single more ina geopolitics, not just fainted.
Speaker 8 (29:28):
When you say that, she's to say no, because like
Chijin Ping's like political style is sort of you know,
he's been he's been very very good at like like
centralizing the bureaucracy around him and sort of like neutralizing
social moves.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
And this has been a classic.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Like a sort of long range like post culture revolution
like Chinese comedies party, think of like we need to
make sure there's not treat movements we need to sort
of neutralize.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Yeah, it's also aims, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, but it's also like you know, Jiji Ping sort
of very much is also like a loyalty guy, right,
He's like, you know, he he will he will sort
of set up anti corruption things to like per people
who are like aren't loyal to him, because that's you know,
that's that's the way that this kind of like centralizing
politics works, and it's it's traspa is really interesting that
like we're seeing this with we're saying this with the TERFs.
(30:14):
Route was like, well, you guys, like I'm sorry, you
guys weren't fucking loyal enough. So like each ship you're
gonna get get ed coruption campaigned.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
There's people that we proted that are super close to
Shamebelnd that we were really scared would get government positions
and were TERFs. They didn't get shipped. There's no like
trans legislature, but there's also no terf legislators. Yeah, there's
a world where that could have happened that we would
have been fucked. I think without our protests, like not
just the ones we organized from my collective, the d
(30:46):
Decids kind of know that we were focused on some
of the closest to Shamebeln but like every transperson knew that,
like this was something real lad and we kind of
put a stop to it. But and it'll been a
stalemate because again, what Shame did was defend her loyal
terms and she moved them to positions outside of the
spotlight honestly more suited to their to their Italians, Like
(31:09):
her terms were not really charismatic. She was trying to
set them up like as influencers and like they just had.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
There's no juice at all.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
That is a classics like just being the most juiceless
motherfuckers and the planet.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Absolutely and like really in concuring politics. Yeah, because like
they again they were they were kind of like they're
more like lefty in discourse.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
They were very nationalists obviously, but also like they were.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Hyping how feminist she was and like, oh, we're gonna
confront American imperialism and while at the same time like
being obsessed with like British TERFs.
Speaker 5 (31:47):
So like it was really contradictory.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
So Morena calls their movement, like the forty the fourth Transformation,
which is like just I won't even get into it.
It's just such a fucking bizarre thing.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Did have a transformation or something? Was he also doing
the fourth Transformation?
Speaker 3 (32:03):
It's like no, no, it's like the Independence when we
kicked Francis ass and then revolution. Those are the three
and then and then the fourth is him right, like
he's saying like I'm I'm Benita quaas reborn and uh yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Cringe, but like it's stuck.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Honestly, I use it because like it's such a good
shorthand because morena is so large, such such a big word,
and its salts.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
Cringe because like.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Morena, which means morena means like brown skin. So and
also like bon morena, which is like Mexico's virgin mary,
so very queen. Even for quarter is even less cringe.
So yeah, sure, whatever, But like one of the most
famous Mexican Mexican feminists started calling them the quarter.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Oh my god, and that stocks.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
It's really fucking look like it, so that stock.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
But basically quarter is not out of power like the
most ambitious ones and the most purely turfs got quick
kicked out and the loyal dogs got sent to do
like other jobs. Like they're now talking to academics about
like green progressive socialism and shit, like they're just doing
talks in like with like eighty year old tenured professors
and like that is still riskin and there's we're still
(33:15):
watching them closely. But I think Simon told them, like
I'm gonna protect you, but you need to shut the
fuck up.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
You better not.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Say the word rands for six years, go go knots afterwards.
But you're gonna have a job and you're gonna have
a possibility of returning and that I'm not gonna help you.
That's on you, and like, honestly, at least that's a
fair playing field.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
I'll take it. I'll fucking take it.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
So yeah, I guess like the state of things seems
to be that the deal is we're just gonna take
like trans people as a political issue off the table
for yeah, whatever many years.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Well, I think we're we're gonna she's gonna let like
states handle it, like if a trans law assess in
a state, she's gonna let it. And I don't think
anti translats are gonna have a.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
Good time interesting trying to pass because the Right Age ship.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah, they really thought they were gonna at least have
a competitive edge, and no one voted. And again like
there's a lot of Turfs that were more aligned with
the far right, but they were not acting like it.
The rhetoric didn't look until a couple of months ago,
like the rhetoric that Britain or the US turfs have
(34:28):
both types of US turf that I think there's we
have every single type of irf here in Mexico. If
you can think of a type of nerf, we have it.
I think Britain is mostly wine moms and the US
is both angio freaks and like hippie where those like
ex anarchists, they bring resistance types right, like.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Yeah, well I need to draw the light here, damnit.
But the decree resistance people were never anarchists. They were
always they were always weird primitivist. But like vang like
Vanguard is primitivists.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, I know, I love that our recalled by Julie
who accompanied me in the least episode about someone fing
a hot dog and it fucking rules. But yeah, right,
like we had that, like we even have like a
deep rear system to Mexico thing going on for like
a couple of years. So Mexican terms here that align
(35:18):
themselves with the far right are gonna see both less
resources because the far right is healing some Bruce Eagles,
So the Writing Front gonna have to go full fascist,
which oh they.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Will, Yeah many such cases.
Speaker 5 (35:32):
Yeah, they can.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
No longer get money from like your center right, like
respectable democracy people who are basically are just right. They
don't they They spend most of their time like just
complaining how like Maduro and Amlow and like treating like
everyone's the same thing because the only thing they want
is like just they want new liberalism, and I'm tired
(35:56):
of telling them we have new liberalism, ye, Like why
am I just new realism with a little bit of
just enough like welfare state to like keep everything from
blowing up. So yeah, this that's the case here. They
ate shit, They don't have money, so they either have
to find local fascists with which they have or they
have to appeal to Brits with things like the boxing scandal.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Yeah, and that sort of brings us full circle to
like I guess literally the present day, as in like
the time this is being recorded, where their big attempts
to like generate a bunch of revenue for themselves and
like bring themselves back in the spotlight has kind of
blown up with their faces.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
Yeah and listen.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
One of the few good parts of like modernask co
option of feminism is that some previously, like I don't
want to say controversial, but like, there were really a
lot of campaigns to try to remove prestige from any
any prominent trans inclusive feminists in Mexico. Mexican academia and
Mexican like high feminism really started to go full Wratham
(37:06):
in twenty sixteen, and it started by trying to attack
any single prestigious feminist that was not a TERRF. Chief
amongst them is Marta Lamas, who I love her. She's
extremely live, but like, I still love her because she
she comes from a history of like not quite radical
but not quite radical Mexican academia that like says she
(37:30):
like reformist in method radical in objectives.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Sure, sure, but she at least.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Thinks it's true and lives by it. And she is
if you want to read stuff by her. She has
one of the best accounts of the history of sex
work in Mexico. Full water and Anache, a fantastic book,
fully recommended.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
Yeah, we'll put a link to that in the description.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Yeah, so she got into like the mayor of Mexico
City's team. She is now in Clara Brugala's team, and
Clara is like the front runner for the next presidential candidate.
She is not Chambain's friend. So my suspicion is that
Shaban is keeping her terfsunreserved to push.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
Back against Clara.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Oh interesting to.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Find another female candidate and proper up as the feminist
successor to Claudia or a male candidate like she needs
like feminists on her side on reserve to combat like Clara.
Who Clara again, it's further to live than Chamblaine, and
she doesn't.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
Come from an academic background.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
She comes from a grassroots urban movement background in the
like thehood of Mexico City. In turn, Brugada needs more
institutional and like legit support. And Marta Lamas while she
was controversial because of TERFs smearing her, but she is
Marta fucking Lamas and she is white as hell. So
Clara got her in her team and now she gets
(38:54):
to be the chief leftist feminist in Mexico because like,
if Kadia starts sucking so much about feminism, well she's
a Google search away from.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
Like turf scandals.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
Yeah yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Nata really pushed back against turf influence in Mona, which
I'm really frank like, if you're gonna be co opted this,
that's the least amount of like allyship you need to do.
Speaker 6 (39:16):
All right?
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah yeah, even push the turfs out from your like
fucking mansion.
Speaker 5 (39:21):
We can push X to the to the left, Well,
then do it.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
I people love saying they want to push politicians to
the left, and then don't push push politicians.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
To the left. They just want to lose the critic power.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
Yeah. Yeah, is there anything else that you want to
make sure we get you before we wrap up?
Speaker 3 (39:41):
I think wrapping up to the Readogs magazine. Keep an
eye on like those kinds of places that are trying
to connect things, because we already saw that this can
spill over from Mexico or Brazil or Korea.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
I think Korea is gonna be bad.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
So the thing about Korea I haven't done much about.
We probably will at some point cover this stuff in Korea.
Korea is having a really really sort of unbelievable sort
of anti feminist backlash. But this has also had the
impact of like really empowering the rat femmes. Yeah, and
it's it's a complete catastrophe.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah, I would really advise against idealizing feminist movements.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
Ealesworth. Yeah, do your research.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Don't just accept on face value that like a face
you know from a third word country is gonna.
Speaker 5 (40:36):
Be like the voice of the Global South. That's just
not fucking true.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Like, if you hear a face of the Global South,
it's probably because there's.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
Money behind it.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Like, yeah, unless you're really deep and know your shit,
the first thing that's gonna show up is gonna have
money behind it.
Speaker 5 (40:52):
So be really careful.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
With other feminist ones. I saw how people idealized Mexican
feminism not knowing just how deep both infiltrated by the
government and.
Speaker 5 (41:03):
Paid by fire red groups, and that really backfire.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Like one of the only survivors of right leaning but
left presenting feminists that's called Brujas Mara. Yeah, they're probably
the only europe that's going to survive during the Shamebane presidence.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Yeah, big turf group.
Speaker 5 (41:19):
Yeah, they never tried.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
To get close to Shamba, but also they never dropped
the mask fully and they're one of the biggest pushers
of name imanything. Not the originators, those are the more
internationally connected, but they were the biggest pushers of it.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
They have the most followers. They really prison narrative.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
They were featured in Times one hundred, like AARUSIONDA was
Times one hundred from Mexico. So be really careful of
who you think are supporting. Yeah, because this is going
to be happening. I think it's it might be over
for now in Mexico and we I think we didn't win,
but maybe we can stop them from researching in five
years or so, and then I think that would really
(41:57):
steal the deal. But this is going to be happening
everywhere where. You're gonna see it a lot in like
African feminist movements, in South Southeast Asian feminist movements. You're
gonna see it pop up all over the world. Take
a lesson from Mexico and look for trans folks over there,
ask them, hey, is this person cool?
Speaker 4 (42:16):
Yeah, just the minimum.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Do diligence before, like sharing gofundsman ship, like please, for
the love of.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
God, we again. A toler goes a long way here.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
So if if feel like you give something that would
barely cover rent for someone in the United States, that's
enough to set up an organization here, yeah, and really
fuck local politics for years to come.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
So I don't know, Please be careful.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
So if people want to find you and the stuff
that you do that is not ship, where can they
find you?
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Well, I'm on x everything apps as a flores and
also i have a podcast called Fatista Knkrema. It's a
really good point in Spanish, trust me. And I'm also
trying to launch a project that's gonna be like a
sort of media watchdoggy thing. Again, we were working with
(43:09):
like sense here, so it's gonna.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
Take a while.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Yeah, I keep an eye out if I don't know,
if you if you wanna learn more stuff about Mexican
like what's going on beyond, like either far right news
like that saw Shambane in a photograph with a trans
flag and friked out, or just like people who take
everything at face value and believe that Chamber One is
the second coming of Marx.
Speaker 5 (43:31):
So I don't know. I'll try to keep folks posted
because it's.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Complicated, Like, yeah, it took us an hour to talk
about even just one topic.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
Yeah, things complicated? Who who?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Who could possibly have guessed that? You know, it's it's
difficult to understand, very complue to political configurations.
Speaker 5 (43:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
So yeah, for now I'm only on xicus and YouTube
again for Conkrema I do I stream on Twitch. Honestly,
this is gonna sound maybe you're gonna gonna call this,
but I really admire y'all. Like, honestly, I both that
and not a little bit of envy. I wish there's
(44:12):
not a really an ecosystem of like content creation or
news from a leftist perspective here.
Speaker 5 (44:18):
Like most of the people again, a lot of them
also got co opted.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
A lot of friends I had in like independent leftists
publishing and news in Mexico are now like full on
like just modern spokespeople. Or they went insane and anti
vax and like now they're far right. Well yeah, many
such cases. Yeah, so this is where they could app here.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
You can find us in the places and until then,
I defeat your local TERFs.
Speaker 5 (44:46):
Yeah, and don't become.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
Jimidor back to.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
It could happen here as a production of coulsone Media
for more podcasts, Cool Zone media. Visit our website coolzonemedia
dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can
find sources for It could happen here, Updated monthly at
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Robert Evans
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