The Curious Case of Nazi Catboys: Part 2

In part 2 we discuss how fascists/reactionaries view the aesthetics of femininity and Nick Fuentes’ catboy fetish.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Recording in progress. All right, well that's my opening. Welcome
to part two of Why They're Nazi Cowboys. Um, what
is this podcast? Garrison? It could happen here? Talking about
that together the cap boys of Nazis? Which did which
did actually happen here? They're actually we'll talk about how
they actually happened. Um. But before we before we get

(00:27):
into the topic of fascists becoming fem boys via exposure,
because I do, We're gonna start off by talking about
kind of well generally the book book the episodes can
be talking about people who are fascists who then get
in defend boys techics. Right, last episode we talked about
the fem fast, people who are fem boys who they
get into fascism. Now we're talking about the fascists who
now get into fend boys. Um. But before we get

(00:49):
real into that, I think it's gonna I think it
would be helpful to get a bit more into what
these online communities were like in the um. Now, all
the sympos like a combination of what I've gleaned from reviews,
direct messages, my own pulling up of old like four
Chuna read it threads. It may not necessarily reflect your
on experiences perfectly. What is the most in depth I
can do on an audio only medium. Um, some won't

(01:11):
be thrilled about this, but we do need to discuss
traps um at their place within the online community at
the time. UM, which means we must divine, which means
before we first must to find another term for the
blissfully unaware. So really heartbreaking because when I was a child,
Garrison trap was just a house where you hit your drugs.

(01:33):
It is it is not a trap house. This is
a different, different, different type of track. This is, this
is this is before trap house turned into a podcast. Yeah,
and people didn't know what a trap house was. Great
heartbreaking the term, but the term trap is were using
it here UM, at least on the internet, originates in
the in the early two thousand's on image boards UM

(01:56):
specifically for June UM and it it got to be
as it as it got more populous, to term got
more kind of widely recognized as a slur specifically usually
a slur against trans women UM or a slur for
like any like feminine presenting a person who was a
signed mail at birth. So it's it's it's use and

(02:19):
origins at least when the Internet comes from people posting
pictures usually from anime very like feminine looking boys, um,
alongside the meme of Admiral Akbar saying it's a trap. Right,
So this this is this is how this idea of
the trap kind of started, at least online. I talked
with some like other trans friends of mine. They say
that it definitely they in their opinion, they remember it

(02:42):
being a term even before the two thousands on the Internet,
of being kind of more of a slur towards trans women. Um.
I can't find any kind of stuff online about that
specific angle, but the term the term may be older
than that offline, but at least the online use of
it really comes from the Admiral Actbar meme. UM. So
of course, the it's a trap idea kind of implies

(03:02):
some form of deceptions at play, right with these drawings
that are pure feminine but may actually be depicting adolescent
males or you know, worse, trans sexuals right woo, very scary. Um.
So this this soon got transferred over from being applied
to anime drawings to being applied to pictures and then
in person encounters of real fem boys or trans people. Um.

(03:24):
So you know, it's as in like if you found
someone that looks female enough, as the mean would go,
um if to be attractive, and later found out that
they were actually a boy or they were a trans woman.
The idea was that, like, you were deceived. Thus you
must be on the lookout for any kind of potential
attractiveness of fem boys or trans women or else you
two might be trapped. Um. So this again, this is

(03:48):
it's it's it's often it's a very transphobic, and it's
like it's comparing fem boys to trans women because these
are not the same thing. Um. Obviously there's is very
very hashtag problematic for a lot of reasons. Um. But
there's also the the meme the of our traps gay,
which is referring to a kind of like satirical debate

(04:11):
around whether or not it's gay defined a femboy, a
male cross stresser, or even a trans woman attractive. Um.
Now the meme does riff on the whole like fellas
is it gay? Thing? Um? And gee whiz am I
glad the fellas meme has surpassed the R traps gay meme. Uh.
Obviously obviously, not only is the R traps gay thing,

(04:32):
pretty homophobic and transphobic. Um. It's also tied to a
lot of like real world violence against trans women by men,
all of the trans panic defense, right, the whole, the whole,
the whole trap idea kind of does tie into the
transpanic defense. A lot of you know, men who claim
they simply had to attack or killed trans women once
they found out that that she had a dick, right,

(04:55):
or maybe used to have a dick, not even anymore,
or it doesn't dove a matter more commonly or common
called the trans panic defense. Yeah, yeah, so, and like
the mere thought of that was so scary that they
just they used the transplanic defense in court when violence
against trans women is enacted. Now, obviously this is also
much more attacks against trans women in this vein are
much more common on trans women of color than than

(05:18):
than white trans woman. That's another that's another important thing
to mention. But circling back to fourtune Nazis and fem
boys in the in the two thousands and tens, trap
was almost like a badge of honor and self descriptor
for many fem boys as well, like being able to
trap or like you know, pass for a woman while

(05:38):
having a dick was like the highest level of fem
boy nous. It was like it was like top shelf
femboy was being because was being able to to achieve
this feat. Um. Usually this was you know, for the
purposes of taking like lewd pictures of yourself and then
having them be you know, well liked or spread across
online forums. UM. In my interviews with people from these
online spaces longer than I've been around, UM, it was

(06:03):
it was like described to me by them that being
like fem boys are just trying to look feminine, whereas
traps are really trying to look like girls. And that
is kind of like the distinction in these in these
places at the time. UM. Now, you know, all while
calling yourself trans was heavily discouraged and ridiculed. Um in
two thousand and eleven, you know, four chun it was

(06:23):
it was, it was. It was hard to be it
was hard to even be openly gay, like, let alone transgender.
So but being self described as the trap was much
more accepted. So a lot of people would actually self
describe as this or want to be self described as this,
like want to be at the point where they feel
like they could say this, um, and it's it's interesting.
It's like a lot of a lot of the attraction

(06:43):
to traps um was in a lot of ways genuine,
but also all wrapped in this like joking, ironic kind
of exterior being like, oh, it's all like it it's
all like a bit that we're that we're all in
on the joke for right that that's kind of this
was explained away. Another quote from the interviews is like quote,

(07:05):
if you actually admitted to being actually actually romantically attracted
to traps or femboys, you would be heavily ostracized. People
would say things like, oh my god, you actually did it,
like you actually did the thing um, because it is
it is. It was like wrapped in this sense of
of of of like irony and and and any hint
of sincere attraction was masked in this like ironic joke

(07:25):
like facade. So at this point four chan is basically
an amateur porn filled sesspool of anime, h gaming, edgy jokes,
and increasingly bad politics, with pole really taking the shape
of like the Nazi machine that it is today. So
close proximity and probability is all it's necessary to make
these racist and Fen boys have this you know, uncomfortable

(07:47):
awakening once they start seeing a whole bunch of pictures
with people's dicks wearing like made outfits. Um So, with
with all these like edgy, ironic and not so ironic jokes,
the racists populating these chans forums, online spaces, it's only
a matter of time before they get exposed to boys
posing in Japanese tennis skirts and pink wigs, which helps

(08:10):
create this infinity loop idea of like FEN boys to
get into racism and then fascism, and then and fascists
who discover they like dick girls and when boys were addresses,
and then it's it's because they're because these things are
happening right next to each other. It's this whole phenomenon
of self contradiction that just keeps itself going. So we
we were now we were now done this section, thankfully,

(08:32):
um I did not want to get into having to
talk about all that stuff because I know it's not
people don't like talking about it. It's pretty, it's pretty.
It's plays on a whole bunch of extremely like transphobic
like tropes, but it is it is a big part
of this this this kind of phenomenon. Um. So now
we're going to next part, which is in cells gamer

(08:53):
gate and anti feminism. So I I'm I'm not going
to focus a lot on the idea of repressed queerness here, right,
the idea of like raging homophopes being secretly gay, because
I think that idea gets a little too much attention
when we talk about this sort of thing. Now, don't
get me wrong, this absolutely does happen, but I generally

(09:14):
view sexuality, gender identity, and gender expression as much more
fluid attributes, even among people who consider themselves as systems straight.
So I I don't like defaulting to this like explainer
of being like, oh they're homophobic, that means they're secretly gay,
and like that's I think that's kind of lazy and stupid.
But when when when we're talking about the curious case
of Nazi cowboys, most individuals involved not only identify as

(09:36):
straight and sis gender, but are also very homophobic and
very transphobic despite their overly like queer behavior, because it
is it is like queer and like the original sense
of the word. Um, And I think I think there's
much more interesting ways to analyze this beyond the repressed
gay trope. We've already we've already already are talked about
some femboys and femboy appreciators adopting reactionary and conservative social

(09:59):
beliefs to fit into the larger culture around four Chune
and parts of the online gaming community to find this
sense of belonging and you know, shared shared community among
other people. But in order for the fascist femboy to
be such a lasting meme and trope in and of itself,
in my mind, there needs to be a bit of
a stronger justification for the inherent contradictions beyond just finding

(10:19):
community itself. And we will we'll talk about that when
we come back from from from our break. Here's here's
some ads that that are hopefully about how you two
can go on Amazon dot com and buy a made outfit.

(10:44):
And we're back. Okay, we're going to talk about in cells, um,
one of one of my Yeah it's uh okay, um
in cells or like can voluntarily celibate people whatever I
used to. People who are listening to this know what
in cells are. Um. But the insel movement gained traction

(11:05):
in the mid twenty teens alongside gamer Gate and the
growing kind of anti feminist and alongside of mass shooting
probably there was. There was There was also the Toronto
attack when the install round over people in that van.
There's been multiple mass acts of islands tied to the
in cell idea. And how they A lot of us

(11:27):
just call them horny isis I've never heard anyone call
them that before. Well they are, I mean immediately Also
this is This is also the same period where just
isis is on Twitter, so they share where I really
want Isis to chime in on the Will Smith to
face No you don't like I would love here. I'm

(11:52):
waiting for the Taliban's take. No no, no, no no.
It is violet against his violence, comedians, his violent comedians
justified the Taliban weighs in at six Taliban are you
could get the Taliban arguing with isis K. By god,
it could be done. What a what a what a

(12:13):
better world? That especially if Trump was still on Twitter
and commdiate. Oh god, that would have been so funny.
If Trump had been around on Twitter too. It's the
only time I've missed him, just like, oh yeah, yeah,
that would have been that. That would have been the
good ship anyway. Um, yeah, and cells there. It's a

(12:36):
pretty obtensibly violent movement because it's it's all about making
young men disenfranchised about their future, right. It's this fatalistic
idea that they were promised things and now those promises
are no longer being kept by society, so you are
kind of doomed to live a pathetic life forever. Right.
So it is a very fatalist idea that really kind
of encourages acts of violence. Um But the in the

(13:01):
moment was gaining traction around this whole time, right right
beside gammer Gate and the growing antifeminist movement, And I
think the key to putting this puzzle together is in
the hatred and resentment of women itself, um as like
a thing. I think think this is actually a key
part of why the femboy and femboy fascist thing kind
of caught on. Most of the loose organizing of these
movements were happening on four Chan and Reddit right eventually

(13:24):
eventually discord as well. These were the same places that
were home to the anime posting femboy amateur porn community,
and one of the most common viewpoints at the time
was that feminism is ruining women, right, It's it's it's
disrupting the natural patriarchal order that many boys were taught existed,
you know, with promises of girlfriends and wives that are

(13:45):
like rightfully there's as some kind of like obligation. Yeah,
I mean this is when we talked about like promise
people being men being promised women were generally talking about
like the way in which fiction kind of complicitly promises
women as as a reward for heroic orgy. It's just
being good. It's like it's it's it's specifically like a
cultural idea that is probably the best example of this.

(14:08):
Star Wars, Luke Skywalker becomes a hero and gets to
gets to kiss his sister, you know, yes, which is
just think which is the driving driving motivation of many
many in sales said they took in one day because
their sister. Thank thank you Robert for that for that
cistinct analysis. I used to I used to be a

(14:30):
film's reviewer, Garrison. So like, if you're taught and raised
like thinking that something like this exists, right like this,
this this this correct patriarchal order, like it's like it's
it's it's almost it's almost like this like righteous truth. Um,
and you if you then discover they're like, that's kind
of a lie, and that like women are actually individuals
with value not tied to the ownership by a man.

(14:53):
Um Some men have a very very unhealthy, often violatile
reaction to this realization or confrontation, and so some people
then decide to do mass shootings. Some people, uh kill people,
some people just do you know, some people might just
do you know, like um intimate partner violence, right, say
that they do get a partner at some point and

(15:14):
it's not going the way they want and they just
become abusive. Right. So there's a whole bunch of ways
this this type of thing can manifest. Um. So, faced
with the work of like not being a dick and
trying to combat this ingrained misogyny and then having to
like actually put effort into being attractive and desired, a
lot of men instead opts to either like attack outwards

(15:35):
or withdrawal inwards, and sometimes the mix of both. So
with the with the fascist from boy thing, a lot
of this is like withdrawing in words, right, A lot
of these people are too introverted and to kind of
cowardly to actually do like a mass shooting, which is
like that's that's that's that's probably good. Um. But then
with them and drawing in words, we're gonna it's kind
of manifest in this in this in this different way.

(15:56):
So when dealing with this almost like misogynistic nihilism, a
lot of dudes really lost hope in the prospect of
a future romance with women. So instead of putting in
effort to adjust their personality, adjust their behavior, change the partrict,
but change their patriarchal outlook and improve their physical appearance,
many guys inside will retreat to their online communities full
of other guys facing similar issues. All Right, it's easier

(16:18):
to live in front of a screen and I have
to face other humans in person. These these people don't
really have much substantial experience in real life interacting with
the opposite gender. Um. So these perhaps you know, these
these so called straight guys that were drawn to fend
boys also may have had just had like bad experiences
with women. They may have faced rejection, and that rejection

(16:40):
may have really brought them down. Um, And then they
assume that they're always going to be rejected by women
because of like a few bad experiences and the kind
of guys who are on these chans forums and Reddit
online gaming. They tend to be generally more socially outcast,
people who aren't necessarily super physically naturally like attract of
the masculine right you have like people everyone, almost everyone

(17:02):
can be attractive. You just have to like put in
work if you if you just never do that, Like
a a lot of boys are never taught how to
actually make themselves look good, so they're just kind of
like just like, like attractive isn't much like they if
you go on these in cell forms, they'll focus a
lot on like, well I have you know, there's these
folds in the creases of my eyes, or like the

(17:23):
way that my nose is very physically impossible for a
woman to be into me. And it's like now like
more than people Like there's all sorts of different preferences
people have for physical things, but overall, like the number
one thing you can do to be attractive is to
be a person that people like be confident their life

(17:43):
if you have like have a good personality, like learn
how to do a variety of things and just like
have have a life. A lot of people like that
seems neat They think that they can achieve you know,
they think that women should flock to them, even if
they put in like no effort at all, Right, they
just do what they're doing. They feel like why is
this not working or the effort they put in. It's

(18:05):
like Ellie again, Eliot Rodgers the perfect example of these
kind of people. Like the effort that he put in
was he like made his dad buy him a really
nice car and he dressed in expensive clothing. And it's like, well,
that's actually very few people are attracted to that. And yes,
the people who are attracted solely to someone having a
nice car and clothing probably really weird specific like physical things.

(18:25):
They're also only looking for um. But that's because you
were like like that, that's not making yourself attractive as
opposed to I don't know, learning how to cook or
or learning you know, a foreign language, or you know,
being an emotionally available person who's not purely viewing relationships

(18:47):
into transactional nature where you're you're paying for sex by
being friendly, you know, but you know in a way.
But you know, what's easier than doing all that is
just hating women. That is, that's a much easier to
think of these these people to do default to this.
So the Internet taught me one thing. It's that it's
quite easy to hate women. So while these like all

(19:09):
right hell holes like four Chune um and you know
read it online gaming right, online gaming is full of misogyny, um,
all these all these places like really hate like actual women.
It's they still heavily fetish size femininity, right, It's still
viewed as this like glorious, like like thing that's put
put put put put put on a pedestal, even though

(19:30):
they hate like actual women themselves. So feminine dudes can
be fem boys or cause play anime to garner attention
or social praise, you know, amidst some you know standard
you know, like people like oh your faguets, you're disgusting comments,
But you can they can. They can still like cause
play and dress up and post pictures without being totally

(19:51):
shunned by their fellow edgy all writers because it's kind
of funny and some of them may actually find it cute,
even even though they may not admit it. Uh. Fem
boys often do have you know, I generally think cute
and effeminate features they can in For these people, a
big part of the goal is to like trick the
brain into thinking that you're just looking at a girl,
um that might just so happen to have a penis.

(20:14):
So therefore, when like viewing these pictures, these guys are
also like getting a sense of familiarity with girl like imagery,
um while thinking that like they also might have a
shot and with interacting with this individual because they don't
have a vagina, So that makes it makes interacting with
them like easier because there's like more things to relate to.
I guess, um, you would see a lot of like

(20:36):
role playing and like role playing of sexting and like
role playing of dating girls through this fem boy framework
just actually a really common occurrence as like and it
was it was explained as like it's like a sort
of practice for imagining their future of dating women. It
was like it was like they're doing this to like
practice interacting with women. Um, so they're just gonna be

(20:57):
role playing dating fem boys whild being Nazis, but they're
doing it so that it's like a practice so that
they will be better at dating women in the future.
It's like so that that's that's actually a really common
thing um or like yeah, like sexting as as as like, yeah,
I'm just doing this for practice, Like I'm not doing
this so that I will be good at sexting in

(21:18):
the future, just doing it with these fem boys on
you know, discord on for Chad whatever. Um, because like
all of like the whole femboy thing is still dealing
with the patriarchal views of beauty. Right. It's it's femininity
as the sort of performance put on for the enjoyment
of others. And because it's about that, like appreciating femininity itself,

(21:41):
it's seen it's a lot safer than full on homosexual attraction,
right because it's it's allowed if if you're if you
can appreciate the femininity, then that's allowed to propagate despite
also kind of being degenerate because the person generally fem
boys usually self ideas male. But because it's wrapped in
this feminine package, it's allowed to be appreciated. Um. And

(22:02):
for the people that did eventually come to terms with
their queerness, the four Chan femboie thing allowed them to
safely dip their toes into exploring how like exploring homosexuality, bisexuality,
exploring like gender bending without like abandoning the typical masculine
feminine rules that were kind of raised to be comfortable with. Right,
it's still in the regular masculine feminine like rule sets,

(22:25):
but it's approachable because it's allowed to be done through
this both both this like ironic joke, but then also
it's still it's still based off these patriarchal views of
feminine beauty. So it's it's it's it's a weird thing. Um,
it's it's that's a it's the other part of it
that I like to explain to people because you're like, oh,

(22:47):
that is like trying to picture fascists fake dating each
other online so that they'll be better at dating women
in the future. It's just a very absurd idea. It's
I it's fair. I'm actually fine with this, but like
it makes like it makes sense, like it like it,
like I understand it, and you can like yeah, I
get it. Um. And it did help a lot of

(23:09):
people eventually realize maybe I'm not the straightest stick in
the shed, or maybe not the straightest stick in the fascies. Yeah.
I mean everyone needs a safe space to figure out
what they are, and I guess that even includes fascists
maybe because like not because I want fascists to be fascists,

(23:32):
but because maybe some of them, through this weird role
playing role will like get over some stuff absolutely recognize that, like, oh,
maybe maybe I'm just like gay and I need to
like work on myself, like I'm I'm maybe I've been
barking up the wrong tree with all this Nazi stuff. Yeah,

(23:52):
because amidst like the gamer Gate, in the height of
the insult era, these guys felt more comfortable exploring their
eagining sexuality in these male dominated online spaces right there.
It's easier to relate to other males when they're when
they're all like growing up, coming of age, dealing with
dealing with these like feelings of it like abandonment, loneliness.
Right they do this in these male spaces. They feel

(24:14):
a lot safer to express themselves, um, you know what,
whether or not they're full of fascists or like other
people who are like very like reactionary, because at least
they can understand male desire um and that's they can
relate to that and internect with people who are you know,
they they can eat innoct easier with people with dicks
well wrapped in this feminine package, which is so much

(24:37):
easier than the much more scary and much more elusive
of like females out there. Right, It's it's that that's
kind of the framework that this was propagated through. It's
it's it's really interesting that it's like you have these
people who like they're they're like they're they're they're Transmisogyny
is such that like they they they've escalated to a

(24:58):
point where it circles back or yes, it is. It
is so intense. It is such a it's there's so
much going on. Yeah, yeah, it's like it's like it
becomes this like like I don't know, it becomes like

(25:18):
the fact that it's like conceptually impossible for them for
just like a woman to have a dick like that
has like circled back around and just completely come to
define how they have gender in such a way that
someone who is like just is performing gender like as
a woman, like to the extent that like they're trying
to like they're they're trying to have people use like

(25:43):
to trancellors against them. Yeah, it's it's an interesting there's
there's there's so much going on because yeah, it's routed
in a whole bunch of it's people exploring gender in
this weird way. Well also like relying on heavily like misogynistic,
trans misogynistic, homophobic kind of ideas. But it's it's also

(26:04):
it's like it's very queer in this and like the
way in the way they're going about it, because it's
a whole bunch of like self it's a whole bunch
of like self justification. It's a it's a whole bunch
of like stuff around like what they view as feminine,
what they views masculine, what what they view like being
a woman means, um it is it is, it is. Uh,

(26:24):
it's it's a lot yeah, like as as like a
more as like a gender queer trans person. I like,
I like look at them go through all this work,
and like, wow, they could have bypassed a whole bunch
of bullshit if they just like less of a dick,
Like if they're just less of if they work as
horrible people, they could have experienced these same things. But again,
like they were, they're in their own isolated communities, they're
they're dealing with these same ingredients just from this weird

(26:45):
backwards way. So like it's it's obviously very transphoblic and
in a lot of senses, but a lot of a
lot of these people eventually realized, oh maybe I've actually trends.
So it's this. It's like, I don't know, it's obviously
not great in a lot of ways, but I don't
know how to discuss it when saying like, yes, it's
obviously not great for how like trans mistagnistic it is,

(27:08):
but they're all working through some stuff. Yeah, well, you know,
I don't want The one thing I will say about
this is like, yeah, like if kids were actually allowed
to be queer normally, like this ship mostly would not happen,
Like you, you wouldn't get so many people who get
locked in these like who who are queer? Who get
locked into these spaces? But then also like the only

(27:28):
way that they could express themselves in these like narrow,
isolated wpping spaces is to like this ship or they're
into the like just let people express themselves normally, and
this this you can deny the fascist recruiting ground Like yeah,
I mean it's it's interesting, Like it's like when all
all these people are looking at interacting with them boys,
I think a lot of those is why they they

(27:48):
were able to play with these ingredients. Is that they
did not experience the same like anxiety or like heightened
stakes or negative or like negative connotations in their mind
that that they normally do when thinking about what men
because women are just so other so especially like if
you can rationalize this, this attraction, defend boys are simply
a prelude to dating like quote like real women in

(28:10):
whatever like fantasy cottage core future they might imagine, then
this idea is a way more approachable. You're gonna need
to explain cottage core for the I am not I
already have we have we we are having an add break,
I still in brief it is this like return to
tradition obsession you see among like chunks of the far
right who are obsessed with the idea that if they

(28:33):
if culture was the way it was in the fifties
or in like the they would live on they would
live on a small farm with their wife and children
who would be utterly submissive to them, and everything would
be perfect. But like, the only thing in between them
and happiness is that they're not able to live in
a in a in a small like farm with a

(28:54):
woman who they essentially own, that the gist. I will
say a lot of cottage course are also used by
liberals and people on the left as well, just as
like an aesthetic thing, we all want to live on
a small farm in the world. Think that makes it
The cottage core that we're talking about is specifically the
idea of I want to own a woman and and
own my children and have like no no power capable

(29:16):
of like stopping me from yeah whatever, because like cottage, cottage,
corn TikTok is pretty sanitized and pretty much like more
of an aesthetic thing, less tied to those patriarchal structures.
But anyway, like everything we're talking about, there's the version
that's Nazis, and there's the version that's, like, boy, it
sucks living in a four thousand dollar a month apartment
in New York City that I share with nine people.

(29:37):
I sure would like to live on a cottage in
the woods. Anyway, speaking of living a coteage in these woods, Um,
if you buy these products, it'll get you closer to
your college core lifestyle. So give it away. Sponsored entirely
by the concept of big cottage, big cottage, the cottage
industrial complex. All right, we are back, and now we're

(30:08):
talking about the point of the Nazi cat boy debate
that everyone I think who is familiar with the topic
knew was coming. No, no breakdown of Nazi cat boys
and the Nazi catboy whenomenon is complete without talking about
Nick Flintez and Catboy Cammy. So Nick flintes, Yeah, this
is uh, this is this is part of the part

(30:29):
of the show that that everyone's been waiting for. Um.
I don't know that most people would know to be
waiting for this, but broadly recognized by our audience. So
in short, if George Lincoln Rockwell has the permanent body
of a seventeen year old boy, UM, that would that's
Nick Flintest as many if you know. Nick Fointest is

(30:51):
a white nationalist livestreamer, political activist that runs the Fascist
America First organization. UH. He's known for fostering a farther
right conservative base than say Ben Shapiro or Turning Point
USA UM, and has pulled stunts like sending his fans
called gropers to Turning Point USA events to take over
the Q and A sections and basically asked Charlie Kirk

(31:13):
why he isn't more fascist? Um? Yeah, And so he
runs this whole organization mostly known by doing his daily
lives streams. He's been doing this since he's like sixteen
or seventeen years old. Fucking nonsense. Um. And it's kind
of a running joke or widely acknowledged secret that Nick

(31:34):
is kind of gay. Um, based on the way he
talks about women, and based on what he said about
his own dating history and snide comments from fellow home
homophobic Nazi friends has led a lot, has led a
lot of people to to this conclusion that Nick may
not be again the straightest stick in the fascists. Um,
thank you, thank you, thank you one. And as as

(31:58):
a significant contributing factor to this, like question of nick sexuality, um,
is due to his catboy arc. Um. So so this
this arc begins in January, um, finally giving our audience
the important, important news. This is what you need to

(32:21):
know people. That month, Nick created a catboy themed channel
in his own America first Discord server with Nick, with
Nick messaging post catboys in here, please with with weird
capitalizations throughout the throughout the thing. So Nick cheered on

(32:43):
along with other people, posting pictures of various catboys from
pop culture and cat boy edits of Nick Frantez himself.
Um One America first server user posted cat boys are
trad and w means like traditional list in kind of

(33:06):
the sense that like Nazis are traditionalist. That's that's what
that person is saying. He also posted very funny. He
also posted cat boys were like cath boys. Oh God,
so like again, Yeah, so that's that's that's the that's
the joke. I'm lucy, You're you're you're out of control

(33:30):
right now. This is it is so I've I've looked
through this discord. He's arguing, this isn't very funny. I've
looked through this discord server multiple times for the for
the screenshots of when you have the cathboy channel, and
it always makes me happy. It is. It's one of
the most funny things I've ever seen. Yeah, as as
your friend, I'm always warring between wanting you to be

(33:53):
happy and worried that this is a cry for help,
but please continue. Eventually, Nick faced some pushback from inside
the server for fostering degeneracy, um with with others with
with others defending the catboy channel by saying, brother we
love is Christian amazing standing See this is this is,

(34:18):
this is exactly, this is the good ship. This is
what we've been building towards as a civilization. Right there,
baby people, other people, other people defended the Catboy channel
by saying, women don't respect Christianity, your tribes. Thought y
always leaks out eventually. Good God, Yes, that's that's that's

(34:40):
the good stuff. I got. I got no comment, just
just perfect thank you. But but because Nick is fundamentally
a coward, he did cave under pressure and deleted the
catboy channel. Um, and we lost. I think the American
First movement today could be so different if he kept
this is. This is why the cause of Americanism is doomed,

(35:01):
this kind of cowardice. But but but as as we
will see from Nick, oh absolutely this this whole, this
whole sections about Nick Wintest being thoroughly cocked. But as
as we will see, Nick continued to use, um, the
exact rhetoric I laid out in my in Sales gammer

(35:23):
Gate and antifeminist section while defending what he calls attraction
to traps um and we can, of course, we can
apply this this defense broadly to catboys and from boys.
As Nick does, Um, I'm going to try to I'm
going to try to play a video of about about
Nick Fuentas um our traps gay. Yeah, traps are gay.

(35:46):
I've always maintained traps are gay. Of course, you have
stacks with the man. It's gay. There's no getting around. Now.
Now that's sad. That's said. Look it's gay. I get it.
I agree. Now that's sad. It's know, we're in times
where the women are not really meeting their obligations. So
I'm not saying you're not. Look, if you have sex
with the trap, you're game, no doubt about that, and

(36:07):
you should be ready killed, you should be made fun of.
But it's a little bit different than if you did
it like twenty years ago. That's all I'm saying. If
you in the nineteen sixties, in the nineteen sixties were
banging a trap, I would say, what's wrong with you?
Like I would say that now. I would say that now,
I would say, were you're some kind of sick freak.
We have all these beautiful girls and they're normal, you know,

(36:28):
and you have sex with a trap. What's wrong with you?
But in nineteen it's like, well, it's it's different, it's
a different circumstance, different options. There's still disavowed, I disavow,
it's condemned, it's gay, it's all that. But you know,
it's just different. I think everybody understands that. But I'm
still listen. Just have to half a little, just have
to have a little nuance, all right, It's just a

(36:50):
little nuance. Different times, different times, it's I maintain strong disavowal,
strong disavowal. Do not you not do that. It's gay,
it's immoral, You're going to hell, and it's weird and
it's grows. Oh my god, what's wrong with you? Female? Yeah,

(37:13):
I haven't heard that one in a minute, person, I'm upset.
That was horrible. You'd femoids since the David Sereni days,
which looks at home if you don't, if you if
you missed David Serene, you missed the one brief moment
where the far right was purely funny. That was bad,

(37:34):
So so be the worst. So yes, being being attracted
to traps makes makes you gay, according to him, but
not really, because the female rice isn't carrying their burden
like it once did back in the sixties. It's like
back in back in, back in the old days of
the nineteen sixties, it's it's like they've like almost gotten
back to the like the I mean, I guess it

(37:58):
probably still like a sorm, but like the the thing
you got with fascist sometimes where they were like yeah,
like I fucked you is but I'm a top so
it's not gay. It's like like so close, get there.
They're so close, and it's like it's like Roy Cone
kind of yeah. Yeah. It's like I think I think,
like I think once we get like just slightly like

(38:22):
maybe like twenty more years out from like the evangelical
evangelicalism as I don't know, I mean maybe maybe maybe
it's resurgen is gonna be like a big enough heyday thing.
But it's like I think, if you had like twenty
years with the right wasn't completely dominated by a sort
of evangelical homophobia, like I think you would just get
back there and well, we're already on that way. And

(38:45):
it's but the Nick Funt has kept saga does not
stop here. No no, no, no, no, no, I am
It is funny maybe the wrong word, but fascinating that
we are heading inevitably barreling towards this future where simultaneously,
homophobia is still a massive part of conservative politics, and

(39:06):
conservatives are gay as hell. Like that's that's absolutely something
where we are speeding towards like a drunken family on
the back of a four wheeler about to break all
of their necks at once and crash in the woods.
So Nick Fuentes love tweeting about cat boys. He didn't
a lot, and for a while, Nick's cat boy jokes

(39:29):
and like a memory was tolerated under his banner of
like irony poisoned reactionary comedy. But every ironic joke has
a stipping point, and that makes that makes enough people
wonder is this actually ironic? Uh? And for Fuantes, that
moment came when he live streamed a ten hour date
with a fellow fascist live streamer who went by the

(39:50):
name cat Boy Camy. Now, first, let's let me explain
who cat Boy Cammy wasn't at the time. Then we'll
get into the date that we're doing. That that we'll
get to Nick Quentes's brief altright cancelation. So tour Brooks
a k a. Cowboy Cammy formerly going under the user
name lolly Socks. So that's fun. Um is an Australian

(40:13):
fascist live streamer who first came to prominence by uploading
clips of himself harassing users on the popular video chatting site.
Oh mowgli ogilby. I never know how to say this.
One moogul little emoguli. People here, people, people will know
what I'm talking about. It's this. It's this randomized chatting

(40:35):
app that does video chatting with the randomized users. Oh yeah,
it's O m E g l E. I never know
how to say it, but it's this. He would. He
would upload himself videos of him harassing people via via
this chatting app. Um. In one of them, he dressed
his up in black face and while brandishing guns and

(40:56):
trying to he was trying to find like black black
kids to taunt on this platform. Another one he dressed
up as a policeman um and kneels and an effigy
he made likeness of George Floyd. Um, he it's it's
he is, he is he is pretty gross. Uh he's
he's he's he's a pretty horrible person. But for a
long time his bit was dressing up in anime costumes

(41:17):
and dressing up as a catboy. Uh to then talk
about like neo Nazi rhetoric, well dressed as a catboy
and this this was his funny bit that he would do. UM.
At one point he was streaming like twenty four hours
a day, UH for ten days for like for the
for the days and days on end um and he
was earning thousands of followers in places like US and Russia.

(41:37):
UH and he became the seventh highest earning streamer on
d live and d live was a popular live streaming
platform used by fascists. Um in and so in late
twenty nineteen was when cowboy Camy popped up like in America,
initially catching the attention of Nick Fuentez. Over over the
course of a few months. UH. He kind of made
friends with various people in the American far right internet sphere,

(42:01):
like Milo Richard Spencer Baked Alaska, but but Nick Fuentes
was his original kind of entry point into this. Nick
saw Nick saw his videos online and was interested in
like what he was doing. Uh. Nick said that he
had a good sense of humor, and he's good looking,
and demonstrated and demonstrated his repeatability that he's able to

(42:22):
achieve viral moments and retain a streaming audience. So Nick
became friends with him because he thought Cowboy Camy would
be like a growing internet presence. I wanted to kind
of move his his type of like his type of
pretty like racist and horrible like joke pranks and tried
to give them more, give them more of a platform
to kind of frontline reactionary ideologies. Um. So, when when

(42:45):
Nick was getting familiar with Cawboy Camy, Cammy on online
activities were mainly consisting of dressing up as an ANIMI
cowboy to do random like political debates or live streams
or show it like anime conventions, to harass people, um
and doing like various gags and pranks. One of the
most infamous incidents was when he was deep throating a

(43:05):
massive horse cock dildo hooked up to a bucket of
fake semen. Um. Good, okay, yeah, So in December, in December,
Catboy Cammy flew from Australia to go visit Garrison. No,
the semen was fake, it was. It was Oh okay,
got you it was. It was a massive horse cock

(43:27):
dildoo hooked up to a bucket of like fake semen. Right, okay,
so just like corn starch and I'm happy. Yeah, if
we want to go of the recipes later, I'm sure
we could make that a whole episode, But now I
know how to make fake come. In December, Catboy Cavy
flew from Australia to go visit Nick Fuentez and then

(43:48):
just proceeded to live stream the ten hour totally straight
hangout session with Catboy Camy dressed up as a catboy
the entire time. I mean, this does sound very straight
to me. They go to go to an arcade, they
play games together, they get food and milkshakes, they go
clothing shopping and try on matching outfits, um all while

(44:09):
laughing and giggling the entire time. Um well, while uh
well uh while driving and listening to extremely gay pop music.
Catboy Cammy says to Nick that here reminds them of
an X. It's great, and by the end of the
ten hour stream, it's implied that they it's it's the
end of stream, it's implied that they share a room
for the night. Um sure, I'm sure they did. And

(44:32):
it's ten hours of pure horrible Nazi flirting. And it's
it's pretty. It's it's a thing, it exists. Um. But
as so as news and details of the live stream
UH started to circulate. A wave of a wave of
infighting among the alt right and the gropers spawned some

(44:54):
amazing articles and headlines from neo nazi news sites. Uh.
There's a headline from the Daily Stormer called the Growing
for Revolution is canceled after Nick Fuentes reveals to be
a catboy and gave Hayett. It's just pretty pretty astonishing. Yeah,
that sounds that sounds about right. And other other great headlines.

(45:16):
We have a Fuentes disavows catboy after a pressure from
trad news. If you're if you're sitting down and for
your movement that you want to take over the government
typing down, Fuentes disavows cat boy. Perhaps you need to
think about some things. We got another headline as catboy

(45:37):
Candy versus Richard Spencer because Richard Spencer trying to cancel
Nick for this because Nick was getting more popular than him. Um.
And we have then another great headline which is a
Nick Fuentess catboy BFF is a mockery to his sexuality. Anyway,

(46:00):
it's uh, it's pretty good. There's this this great this
is this this great. UM. A bit from one of
these articles which, which, which, which which? I'll quote. So
it starts to start off by saying, is Nick Fuentes
attracted to women? If you trusted the plan, you wouldn't
ask such questions. I will say that I don't think
the ten hour live stream helps King Nick of the Grappers.
At the moment, he had a good thing going. We're

(46:20):
trying to promote a more Christian and normal presenting nationalist
movement and was getting a lot of traction until he
ruined his image by associating it with this. None of
his various enemies did this to him either. He did
it entirely to himself. So yeah, um, but like, obviously,
like the point of this is not to like, not

(46:42):
to like put Nick Fuentez's sexuality on blast, Like I do,
do not care one way or the other. Um, it's
not a problem. The problem isn't is that The problem
isn't that Nick may find cat boys incredibly hot. Uh,
But the problem is that he's like a Nazi and
stuff and calls for the extermination of gay people while

(47:02):
also doing all of this ship. Um, and you know,
Nick Nick still maintains that he isn't gay and gay
people should be exiled from society and he would never
associate with homosexuals. Blah blah blah blah blah. Um. All
while doing all this incredibly straight behavior. Um. Uh for
up on Catboy Cammy. Later in Catboy Camy made multiple

(47:25):
appearances that Trump rallies and various other political events, going
viral multiple times for screaming incredibly racist, anti Semitic, and
openly fascist rants. Um. You probably saw footage of Catboy
Cammy in Um. He was just just he was just
he was just dressed as like a regular person. But
he there was a few clips of him at Trump
rallies that went very very viral. Um. And Nick even

(47:48):
U disowned disavowed Catboy Camy for bad optics. Uh. During
during during these incredibly racist rants, he would he would
go on at at at Trump rallies. Uh. Um. And
then of course we have America America First and UH
and and Nick Fuentez then being you know, an escalating
part of the protests in d C leading to January six. Um,

(48:12):
we have the person alleged to have stolen Nancy Polosi's
laptop being in those America First discord servers and UH
and grooming young boys by dressing up as a cat girl.
Um so all part of all part of we This
will get talked about later in like these articles and stuff.

(48:32):
This has not been talked about. Some people already know
about it. But but yes, um so it's all part
of this same like Nick Fuentez catboy sect of things,
of these these like people who who call themselves tread
cats who then do all this weird cat boy shit.
And yes, the the person who stolen people laptop who
was like an open Nazi, um was was grooming like

(48:53):
miners on on discord by dressing up this cat girl,
by by dressing up with a cat girl. Um. Yeah,
So there's a whole bunch of this, this whole sphere
of stuff. You can find some incredibly dark dark corners. Um.
But nowadays, uh, in the Year of Our Lord, Uh,

(49:14):
fem boys are way more of like it's like generally
acknowledged to be like a kind of like a leftist
like communist thing almost um like And and I think
the reason why this debate got so, I think the
reason why the fascist like the fascist femboy debate got
so kind of heightened in the past few years, like
ever since like tumbler band porn, uh, there's been a
migration of tumbloy users onto Twitter, and a part of

(49:35):
part a part of this migration is not sake for
work users and content um, including fem boys and people
who fetishize fem boys and even fetishized racist fem boys.
Moving moving on to Twitter, right, Twitter has become the
new has become the new de facto tumbler in a
lot of senses. So the past three years, more and
more normalies have been exposed to these types of like
off the cuff people. Um. Then, of course TikTok has

(49:57):
sent fem boys into the mainstream because TikTok is also
oh it's not an image board, but it is a
visual medium right where you're posting small videos of yourselves.
So a lot of a lot of catboy and fenboy
content on TikTok. There's even this horrible article from two
from August by Vice called introducing fem boys the most
wholesome trend on TikTok as if fen boys were invented
in mind boggling article of But yeah, fenboys are now

(50:24):
much more if you take the Vice article as an example,
fenboys are now fully mainstreamed. Right, fenboys used to be
a small subculture, but among Gen Z kind of culture
as a whole. Now, fen boys are very popular. They
are they are kind of they are one of one
of like one of like the hot new pokemons to
collect um and I'm gonna Harrison, that's cultural appropriation from millennials.

(50:46):
You're not allowed to talk about pokemons. I don't, I
don't care. We we own those now. So just just
to talk about like scale of memes here, I have
some Google have some like Google trends um on like
Nazi cat boy and not see fem boys. Uh, and
we see the mass The biggest, biggest spike in Nazi

(51:07):
femboy is January of one, which makes sense that that's
when I started writing this this script. Actually, um, you
say yeah, for for Google trends got a massive spike
in January one, and it's kind of been decreasing since then,
but still still like it was. It was like you
would see blips every once in a while, like there's
a small blip of Nazi fem boys. Seen a small

(51:31):
blip in and then a small blip at the start
of the pandemic in March of because people are alone
and isolated, so they're doing this instead UM, and then yeah,
January one massive massive spike um the same thing with
a very similar to racist fem Boy. It's basically the
same exact trajectory. We do get a pretty big spike

(51:53):
and racist fem boy in June of UM, and then
another big spike of actually of November one is the
highest is the highest searches for racist em boy. So
it's still very much an ongoing meme of like a
thing I'll being like, yeah, femboys are pretty racist. It's
still completely completely ongoing. Oh thank god, yeah it is.
It's don't worries, it's not. It's not a closed case.

(52:15):
And that's good, Garrison. I was really worried for a second.
No people, people, and this like I think, I think
if you're not extremely online, you probably even like you
might not know about this, Like this is like this
is an actual discourse on Twitter, Like oh yeah, like
this there will be like a week We're the only
thing people argue about is whether femboys are inherently racist.

(52:36):
Obviously they're not. Like it's it's so. And the last
thing I'm gonna mention here is enemy is in the
is it the Unicorn riot discord leaks when they leaked
a whole bunch of information from lots of different fascist channels.
We have over a thousand mentions of cat boys inside
that you know couldn't riot fascist discord leaks Garrison, I

(52:59):
haven't question for you. Yes, I do you think God
stays in heaven because he too lives in fear of
what he's created here on earth. So if you want
to have a fun time, you can go to Discord
leaks dot, Unicorn, Riot dot Ninja, um slash discord slash search,
then put in put in Catboy and scrolls skulls scrolls

(53:22):
through thousands of posts from these Nazi channels, not mention
cat for here. We got stuff from like sar God
of a cod the We have the Discord channel, Domestic
Terrorism Planning, Discord Catboy channel, we of course have we
of course have Nick Fuentes. We got every whatever you
would look for, you can find it here. Um. And

(53:46):
that is that is the curious case of Nazi catboys.
So there there you go. Any any questions class Garrison,
why why did you do this to us? Because I
thought it would be fun? It is on the on
the inside, it's funny anyway, happy Well, that is uh so, yeah, Now,

(54:09):
I hope I hope you all have a better look
into why the fascist femboy meme exists and how people
can have the cognitive distance in their own heads in
terms of you know, fetishing, fetishizing feminine attributes while still
hating women and then leading into the Nick Fuentez catboy
craze that has swept with the nation as a whole.
So just okay, just just just be queer and a leftist.

(54:33):
You don't have to do the shape. You do not
have to wrap your brain in fucking seventeen layers of
bullshit of like weird misogyny. You can just just be
gay and leftist, and as as we as we showed
you can, you can. You can be a leftist. You
can love Stalin and be a catboy. It's totally fine.
I think you can be anything and be a catboy.

(54:56):
That's that's the main message of the twenty one century.
Adimir Putin is going to come out as a catboy
when he releases his next unhinged rant and support of J. K. Rowling.
That's that's that's where the discourse is headed. It's inevitable,
it can't be stopped. I wanted to be with Nick Fintesan,

(55:18):
Vladimir putin Hold cants being a cat boy. All right,
well where we're going. That doesn't for us today, everybody.
If you wanna follow the show, you can follow us
on Twitter and Instagram at happen here pot and cool
Zone Media. You can follow my cat boy posting at
Hungry bow Tie. Um yeah, yeah, yeah. It could happen

(55:43):
here as a production of cool Zone Media. For more
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Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated
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for listening