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June 14, 2024 30 mins

Continuing the conversation from Part 1, Shereen discusses the history of Hamas and summarizes the previous peace deal attempts.

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
All Zone Media.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome back to Katapem. Here. This is Scharen
and today we are continuing our conversation from yesterday where
we talked about the US proposed peace deal for Hamas
in Israel that looks suspiciously like a deal Hamas had
already agreed to just a few weeks before that and
Israel did not agree to. We had ended part one

(00:26):
talking about how the IOF literally killed their own hostages
when they mistakenly thought they were threats, and I ended
saying speaking of threats, and I'm going to continue because
that's what professionals do. So since October seventh, Israel has
described Hamas as an existential threat, saying that it needs
to destroy the group and won't stop the violence in

(00:47):
Gaza until it does so. But I would argue that
most people who are pro Israel or Western Zionists in
general don't actually know anything about Hamas other than thinking
they're this big, bad evil that has to be eradicated
by the quote only democracy in the Middle East, which
I hope by this point people realize is a sick joke.
Hamas is suddenly being talked about on every news channel

(01:09):
and anything even remotely pro Palestine is now labeled as
pro Hamas when most people in this country, I would argue,
most likely had never even heard of Hamas before October seventh.
Labeling something as pro Hamas truly just means nothing. As
far as Israel is concerned, the UN is Hamas. In May,
Israel's ambassador to the UN, Galad Erdan, said in an

(01:32):
interview with Israel's Army Radio that the UN has quote
turned into a collaborator with Hamas, maybe even more than that,
a terror organization unto itself. Wow, Israeli leadership has just
continued to one up themselves when it comes to saying
the most insane fucking shit. And then, according to Zionists,
the college campus protests that we're calling for a literal

(01:54):
end to genocide are also pro Hamas. Earlier this month,
a lawsuit was filed in Verse by a US law
firm and an Israeli legal group who have teamed up
to suit two organizations involved in recent college campus protests,
the American Muslims for Palestine and National Students for Justice
in Palestine. They accuse these groups of collaborating with Hamas

(02:17):
to serve as their quote propaganda division in the US
arson of Trosky, the CEO of the International Legal Forum,
who was working with this US legal team of Greenberg
Tarig and the National Jewish Advocacy Center. He called the
American Muslims for Palestine and the National Students for Justice
in Palestine, as well as all the protesters supporting Palestine,

(02:39):
most of whom are students as quote the foot soldiers
of Hamas. If I was going to go through everything
that Israel and Zionists have labeled as pro Hamas, this
episode would never end. But I hope it's clear that
this label and accusation isn't based on any real sort
of evidence or proof, and it is only a way
to scare people into blindly supporting Israel in quote defending

(03:02):
itself big quotes there against this growing evil spreading across
the globe and invading our campuses, when in reality, there
would be no Hamas without Israel. Although Hamas eventually grew
into being the most active armed resistance group in Gaza,
it definitely didn't start that way and it wouldn't have
even had the power to grow the way it did

(03:23):
if it weren't for intentional actions by Israeli leadership that
started decades ago. Before we get into a timeline of
the Resa Hamas peace deals that have led to this
very similar deal at the US proposed all deals that
again Israel has rejected. I want to make sure we
at least have an understanding of what Hamas, even is Hamas,
which is an Arabic acronym for Islamic resistance movement, would

(03:46):
not exist today if it wasn't for Israel. American and
Israeli politicians are always saying the same thing, how dangerous
an evil Hamas is, without mentioning how Israel itself helped
create Hamas. The TLDR of it all is that israelis
helped turn a bunch of fringe Palestinian Islamists in the
late nineteen seventies into one of the world's most notorious

(04:07):
militant groups. Is in a conspiracy theory, It's a confirmed fact.
Former Israeli officials, such as Brigadier General is Sak Sagev,
who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the
early nineteen eighties, have openly spoken about this. After his tenure,
Segev told a New York Times reporter that he had
helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a quote counterweight

(04:30):
to secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization aka
the PLO, as well as the FATA Party, which was
led by Yaser Arafat. Arafat two referred to HAMAS as
quote a creature of Israel. Hamas was officially founded in
nineteen eighty seven, at the start of the First Palestinian
Intifada or uprising against the Israeli occupation, but its beginnings

(04:53):
actually started much earlier. Hamas founder, sheik ahmedia Sin, was
a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. The brother Hood had
been repressed by Egyptians in Gaza prior to nineteen sixty seven,
but once the Israelis invaded and occupied the Gaza Strip,
they chose to encourage this group of extremist Islamists. The
dominant Palestinian political force in Palestine at the time was

(05:15):
the PLO, and it was deemed a threat to Israel,
and so Israel sought to undermine its power. The PLO
is a nationalist coalition which was centered around the secular
FATA Party led by Yasser Arafat. By empowering y Scene
in the Muslim Brotherhood, Israel thought they could divide the
occupied Palestinian people and eventually rule over them by playing

(05:37):
them against each other secular nationalists versus religious Islamists. In
nineteen seventy eight, Yasin wanted to officially register his Islamic Association,
which was basically the precursor to present day Hamas. The
Israelis jumped on the opportunity to help make this happen.
Yasin built and grew a network of Islamists social institutions

(06:00):
across Gaza, funded largely by Israel. Avnar Cohen is a
former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for
more than two decades. In two thousand and nine, he
told the Wall Street Journal Hamas to my great regret,
is Israel's creation. Back in the mid nineteen eighties, Cohen

(06:20):
even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them
not to play divide and rule in the occupied territories
by backing Palestinian Islamists against the Palestinian secularists. He wrote
in his report, I suggest focusing our efforts on finding
ways to break up this monster before reality jumps in
our face. Clearly, his superiors did not listen to him,

(06:43):
and Hamas was the result. To be clear, Israelis had
helped build up a militant strain of extremist political Islam
in the form of Hamas and its Muslim brotherhood precursors,
and allowed it free reign in order to quiet any
chance of progress in Palestine, and then when it became
convenient for their desionist narrative, the Israelis tried to bomb,

(07:05):
besiege and blockade it out of existence. David Hashem, a
former Arabs affairs expert in the Israeli military who was
based in President in the nineteen eighties, said the original
sin was Israel's support of ya See in the nineteen seventies.
He said, when I look back at the chain of events,
I think we made a mistake. But at the time

(07:26):
nobody thought about the possible results. Yeah, no shit. The
only American politician that I know of who has ever
referenced how Israel Is responsible for Hamas's creation is Ron Paul.
In two thousand and one on the floor of the House,
Ron Paul said Hamas was encouraged and really started by

(07:46):
Israel because they wanted Hamas to counteract Yaser Arafat. Speaking
of Arafat, not only did he himself tell an Italian
newspaper that Hamas is a creature of Israel. He also
said that the former Israeli PI Prime Minister Yasakrabien admitted
this to him, calling it a quote fatal error. Yaesin

(08:06):
was eventually assassinated by an Israeli air strike in Gaza
on March twenty second, two thousand and four. Sylvan Shalom,
former Israeli Vice prime minister, set after Yasine's death, that
quote Scheh Yassin and his organization Hamas are responsible for
the killings of more than four hundred Israelis, when actually
no Israel is clearly largely responsible. David Long, a former

(08:31):
Middle East expert in the US State Department under Ronald Reagan,
told journalist Robert Dreyfus, I thought the Israelis were playing
with fire. This, of course, is not a unique development,
as there have been dozens of instances of unneeded and
malignant US intervention in other countries for its own gain,

(08:51):
and since then Hamas has killed far more Israelis than
any secular Palestinian militant group. Israel built up Yasine and
Hamas as a rival to Arafat's FATA then they killed
ya scene, and then they doubled down and making Haamas
Israel's worst enemy, an enemy it would use to justify
to the entire world that it was not only okay

(09:13):
but necessary to control and massacre millions of Palestinians. In
the process of destroying this threat, Israel spent more than
twenty years helping build up Hamas and then spent another
twenty years trying to destroy it. All of this is
to say that, aside from the purposeful assistance from Israel
and creating Hamas, that Hamas wouldn't even exist if it

(09:36):
wasn't for the Israeli occupation, there would be no resistance
because without the ethnic cleansing enforced violent occupation, there would
be nothing to resist. In the process of bolstering this

(09:57):
militant group, Hamas also became the main armed force behind
the Palestinian resistance, and many view Hamas as the only
group even attempting to defend Palestinians in the face of
Israeli occupation, and the organization itself has changed over the years,
especially in the last decade, it seems like Hamas was

(10:18):
and is increasingly trying to establish a more favorable status
quo for the Palestinian people. Hamas's leaders were shaped by
the hard realities of a brutal occupation, which was marked
by mass arrests of Palestinians, the expropriation of Palestinian lands
and control of their resources. More than half a million

(10:38):
Palestinians were arrested and tried in Israel's military run courts
between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen eighty seven, and over
fifteen hundred Palestinian homes were demolished and thousands of Palestinians
were forcibly deported aka ethnically cleansed. After Hamas won the
two thousand and six elections in Gaza, its leader Hania

(10:59):
said the group exccept did a state on the nineteen
sixty seven borders, as well as all the decisions taken
by the PA and the PLO, but there were no takers.
HAMAS leaders also backed the two thousand and two Era
Peace Initiative that called for the following the withdrawal of
Israeli forces from territories occupied in nineteen sixty seven, the

(11:20):
right of Palestinian refugees to return to the homes they
had been forcibly displaced from since nineteen forty eight. And
the formation of a sovereign, independent Palestinian state in return
for air recognition of Israel. But Hamas's offers were repeatedly
dismissed by Israel and ignored by Israel's Western allies, including

(11:40):
the US, despite Washington's claims of playing the role of
a quote honest broker in the conflict, Tarek Baconi, author
of Hamas contained the Rise and Pacification of Palestinian Resistance,
told Al Jazeera Hamas has always said that they are
ready to offer a truce and to stop targeting civilians
if the Israeli occupation or moves its settlers. At least

(12:04):
seven hundred and fifty thousand Israelis live in hundreds of
fortified illegal settlements and outposts across the occupied Palestinian territories
of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the vast majority
of which are again built illegally, either entirely or partially
on private Palestinian land, and thus they violate international law.

(12:25):
One of the more infuriating and frankly incredibly stupid talking
points that Zionists have when it comes to talking about
Hamas is the two thousand and six election where Palestinians
elected Hamas as their appointed leadership. I want to remind
every one of a few things. The Gaza strip has
a very young population. Most of the inhabitants in Gaza

(12:48):
are under fifteen years old. The largest population group in
Gaza are children between the ages of five and nine
years old. This population wasn't even born yet, let alone
old enough to vote in two thousand and six. And furthermore,
leadership does not indicate your right to live a life,

(13:11):
your right to not be killed. If you're in America
and Trump is your elected president and you hate Trump
and maybe other foreign entities hate Trump, do you deserve
to die? No, you don't. The resistance fighters in Hamas
are not the ones who wrote the original charter. They're
not the ones who establish Hamas in the first place.

(13:33):
They're young people that are joining the most active armed
resistance to defend Palestine. It's their only option, and Palestinians
have tried other non violent forms of resistance against this occupation.
In twenty eighteen to twenty nineteen, there was something called
the Great March of Return. It started on March thirtieth,

(13:54):
twenty eighteen, and ended December twenty seventh of twenty nineteen.
Every Friday. For those years, Palestinians in Gaza demonstrated and
protested along the border fence between Israel and Gaza for
a right to return to their homes and to demand
an end to the Israeli blockade in Gaza. During this time,

(14:15):
the Israeli army killed a total of two hundred and
twenty three people. Over thirty six hundred and one thousand people,
including nearly eight thousand and eight hundred children, were injured.
This is after a peaceful attempt at demonstrating, after a
peaceful attempt at trying to resist occupation, they're still shot

(14:36):
and killed. They're shot with the intention to kill. Expecting
Palestinians to be pacifists when it comes to resisting a brutal,
violent occupation that has been now almost a century long
is very small minded and entitled and frankly wrong. Palestinians
have their right to resist. Armed resistance is legal under

(14:59):
international law when it comes to resisting and occupying power.
What does this mean? Maybe you've heard that train of
thought before. Let me explain it to you. Let's go
back in time a little bit. The General Assembly of
the United Nations the UNNGA, which was once described as
the collective conscious of the world, noted the right of
peoples to self determination, independent and human rights. As early

(15:23):
as nineteen seventy four, Resolution three three one four of
the UNGA prohibited states from any military occupation. However temporary
hum curious Israel has been doing that for decades now.
In the relevant part of the resolution, the resolution not
only went on to affirm the right to self determination, freedom,

(15:43):
and dependence of peoples forcibly deprived of that right, and
particularly peoples under colonial and racist regimes or other forms
of alien domination, but it also noted the right of
the occupied to quote struggle and to seek and receive
support in that effort. The term armed struggle was implied

(16:04):
without precise definition in that resolution and many early other
ones that upheld the right of indigenous peoples to evict
an occupier again the right of an indigenous people to
evict their occupier, but the imprecise language was changed on
December third, nineteen eighty two. At that time, the WNNGA

(16:25):
Resolution three seven Slash four three removed any doubt or
debate over the lawful entitlement of occupied people to resist
occupying forces by any and all lawful means. The resolution
reaffirmed quote the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence,
territorial integrity, national unity, and liberation from colonial and foreign

(16:49):
domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle.
And although Israel has tried time and time again to
recast this ambiguous intent of this precise resolution, trying to
place its now nearly century long, violent brutal occupation in

(17:10):
the West Bank and Gaza beyond this resolution's application. The
declaration itself proceeds to be very explicit in its language
when it comes to Palestine. Section twenty one of the
resolution strongly condemned quote the expansionist activities of Israel in
the Middle East and the continual bombing of Palestinian civilians,

(17:32):
which constitute a serious obstacle to the realization of self
determination and independence of the Palestinian people. That's what I mean,
and that's what many people mean when they say that
Palestinians have the right to resist and armed resistance is
illegal under international law. I want to bring that up
because even if Hamas does not reflect the viewpoint of

(17:54):
some Palestinians, Hamas is also the main armed resistance group
that has been fighting against the IOF in defending Palestine
Gaza in particular against Israel, and they have a right
to do that clearly, as international law states. Regardless, Let's

(18:14):
go back to talk about the history of Hamas and
how they amended their charter in twenty seventeen. In twenty seventeen,
Hamas formerly amended its original nineteen eighty eight charter. The
new charter holds that armed resistance against an occupying power
is justified under international law. And while the nineteen eighty

(18:36):
eight Hamas Charter has been widely criticized for its anti Semitism,
the two thousand and seven document states that Hamasa's fight
is not with the Jewish people, but with the Zionist project,
and as you should realize by now, anti Zionism is
not anti Semitism. The new charter also announced once again
that it would accept a Palestinian state on the nineteen

(18:57):
sixty seven borders. This would recognize, in effect, a two
state solution and therefore the existence of Israel as a
legitimate entity. This was proposed even as Israel continued to
insist that it can no longer allow Hamas to exist,
and as Israeli politicians, led by Netanyahu, repeatedly ruled out

(19:17):
a two state solution. Hama's political leader Hahaled Mischal said
at the time, the Hamas thinking from the very start,
was clear we are not facing a religious war. Hamas,
ever since its inception, realizes the nature of the struggle
against the Israeli occupier, that it is not a struggle
because they are Jews, but because they are occupiers. Israeli

(19:40):
officials dismiss the new policy paper as lies. In a
video Ntennyah, who symbolically and dramatically threw the document into
a trashman, saying it was an attempt to deceive the world.
Through its actions which span across decades, Israel has not
shown any interest in a political agreement, whether with Hamas
or or other Palestinian political parties like FATA, which governs

(20:03):
the occupied West Bank. Sary Arabi, a Ramala based political analyst,
told Al Jazeira, the issue is not about Gaza. It's
also not about whether Israel or Hamas started the war.
There are daily killings and assaults in the occupied West Bank.
There are attacks on the XA Mosque, there are prisoners
and checkpoints. The people in Gaza are refugees, they were

(20:27):
isolated and separated from the rest of the Palestinian people,
and the vast majority of Gaza's population are refugees who
were forcibly expelled from their homes and villages in the
nineteen forty eight Nekba by Zionist militias. Many political analysts
also blame Israel for the failure of the Oscil Accords
signed in nineteen ninety three. In nineteen ninety five between

(20:49):
Israel and the PLO, which was representative of the Palestinian
people at the time, the agreements led to the formation
of the PA, an interim five year governing body meant
to lead to an independent Palestinian state comprising of the
occupied territory of East Jerusalem and the West Bank and
the Gaza Strip. However, thirty years into its existence, the

(21:11):
PA has failed to create a state in the face
of Israeli occupation, legal land grabs and settlements, and then
Hamas took control of Gaza from the PA in two
thousand and seven. While there was initial support for the
OSCO Accords among Palestinians, the failure to reach a final
peace agreement by nineteen ninety nine and the growing settlement projects,

(21:32):
particularly under Nanyahu, left many disappointed. In a leaked video
in twenty ten, Nnyaho boasted about how he made sure
the Oslo Accords did not succeed. The hopes of the
Osco Accords turned into despair as Israeli policies under successive
governments continued to undermine the PA and its aspirations. Today,

(21:56):
the PA has limited administrative rule over pockets of the
occupied West Bank, while Israeli settlements, which are again considered
illegal under international law, have grown rapidly. The settler population
in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem has grown
from two hundred and fifty thousand Israelis in nineteen ninety
three to more than seven hundred thousand this year. In

(22:21):
his talk with El Jazeera, author Tarik Berconi said the
Israelis wanted Oslo because that's how they maintained their colonization
by maintaining the facade of a peace process. Hamas was
showing a mirror to the Israelis to say, if you're
actually talking about the possibility of ending the occupation, then
end it. That was their offer, instead of the nineteen

(22:43):
ninety three awesome agreements that they would stop armed resistance
if Israel let Palestinians be in the eastern side of Jerusalem,
the West Bank, and Gaza. When we look into the
history of Hamas, we see that its political leadership has
over the years proposed newnumerous long term truces or cease
fires to Israel in exchange for the realization of a sovereign,

(23:05):
independent Palestinian state. But Israel has rejected those offers, arguing
that Hamas could not be trusted to adhere to any
long term ceasefire and insisting that any proposal for a
short term pause and fighting were insincere and strategically aimed
only at helping the armed movement regroup from losses. I've

(23:26):
said this before, but it bears repeating. Every Zionist accusation
is a confession. The reality is that Israel is the
one who cannot be trusted to adhere to any long
term ceasefire, as we have seen time and time again.

(23:51):
Here is a summarized timeline of the most recent peace
deal attempts that have been proposed since October seventh, since
the genocide and Gaza started. In January twenty twenty four,
the Nyahoo rejected a Hamas proposal to end the war
and release more than one hundred captives held by the
group in exchange for a withdrawal of Israeli forces, the

(24:12):
release of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails, and recognition of
Hamas governance over Gaza. And then, on May sixth, Hamas
said it accepted a Gaza ceasefire proposal which was put
forward by Egypt and Katar. This deal would come in
three stages that would see an initial halt in the fighting,
leading to lasting calm and the withdrawal of Israeli troops

(24:34):
from the Palestinian territory. It would also ensure the release
of Israeli captives in Gaza, as well as an unspecified
number of Palestinians held in Israeli jails. The framework of
the agreement in brief is the release of all Israeli
captives in the Gaza Strip, civilians or military, alive or
otherwise from all periods, in exchange for a number of

(24:56):
Palestinian prisoners held by Israel as agreed upon, and a
return to a sustainable calm that leads to a permanent
ceasefire and the withdrawal of Israeli forces from the Gaza
Strip as well as its reconstruction in the lifting of
the siege.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Hmm.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
It seems little familiar, doesn't it. But Israel unsurprisingly did
not agree to this proposal. Instead, it bombed Rupha, which
made the Israeli government's message clear there will be no
permanent ceasefire. Israel's bombing of Rauphah was justified by Israel
as a way to disband Hamas battalions and seize control

(25:34):
of the Gaza Egyptian crossing, which Israel accuses Hamas of
using to smuggle weapons into Gaza, But humanitarian groups were
quick to point out that a closure of such a
crossing would only lead to further disastrous consequences for the
more than one million Palestinians living in the Daphah, the
majority of them displaced from other areas of Gaza, who

(25:55):
fled to Daphah after being told by Israel that it
was a quote unquote say zone. Israel said at the
time with the terms of the may Haama ceasefire deal
differed from previous proposals it had seen, but analysts believe
that the wider issue is that Israel is not willing
to agree to a permanencyspire, even after Hamas releases all

(26:16):
Israeli captives. Omar Dehman, an expert on Israel Palestine with
the Middle East Council for Global Affairs, spoke about this
in May, saying, the last couple of days have proved
that Israel was not really negotiating in good faith. The
moment that Hamas agreed to a deal, Israel was willing
to blow that up by commencing their assault on Rafah.

(26:39):
The goal is to destroy Gaza in its totality. And
then on May thirty first, the US announced its own
ceasefire proposal that Biden said would lead to a quote
lasting ceasefire in the Gaza strip. He said the proposal
involves three phases, the first of which would last six
weeks and would include a full and complete ceasefire as

(27:01):
well as the withdrawal of Israeli forces from all populated
areas of Gaza. Again, this peace plan is almost indistinguishable
from the one that ham also agreed to on May sixth.
A quick reminder that only twenty five days before this announcement,
on May sixth, Hamas had agreed to a ceasefire proposal
by Egypt and Kattad that is almost identical to the

(27:23):
one Biden announced on May thirty first, and Israeli leaders
rejected that initiative. On June seventh, Israel rejected the UN's
resolution of its own hostage deal offer, which was a
permanent ceasefire in exchange for release of all hostages. A
reminder that the only mass release of hostages has come

(27:43):
through ceasefire exchanges, and that a ceasefire deal means freed
hostages without mass death. It boggles my mind that there
are still people defending Israel and saying all this Palestinian
death is for the hostages, because again, if Israel cared
about their lives at all, they would agree to a

(28:05):
deal because that deal can guarantee the safety of the hostages.
But they do not care about the hostages. Every time
Israel rejects a deal, they are telling you that, and
yet their supporters are too entrenched in the lies and
propaganda of Zionism to ever see clearly. So, just to summarize,

(28:28):
the US proposed a ceasefire deal which was almost indistinguishable
from previous plans, agreed to buy Hamas, and then, while
seemingly waiting for Israel to accept the deal, the US
launched a military operation and committed more war crimes to
murder hundreds of Palestinians, and they did this by hiding

(28:48):
in humanitarian aid trucks while deceiving the world and the
Palestinians into thinking that they were trying to formulate a
ceasefire agreement. The US helped Israel plan and carry out
its massacres. This is what peacemaking looks like to the
United States. A ceasefire deal is the absolute bare minimum,

(29:10):
and it is nowhere near enough. The removal of Nanyahu
is nowhere near enough. He's being set up as the
fall guy and scapegoat for Israel, skirting the responsibility of
what the Israeli state has done to Palestinian people since
nineteen forty eight. The Fight for Palestine is a liberation
movement which demands nothing less than the full dignity, freedom

(29:34):
and security of all who live under this violent military occupation.
It's a demand to end Israeli apartheid, and until that happens,
Israel will continue to get away with the Nekaba that
started in nineteen forty eight and continues today. The Nekba
never ended. Israel will continue to get away with the

(29:55):
genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people until Israel
and it's a apartheid is dismantled. A cease fire is
the absolute bare minimum to achieving that, and that, my friends,
is our episode for today. Please keep sharing and learning
about what is happening in Palestine, and don't stop talking

(30:17):
about it. Free Palestine.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from the Cool Zone Media, visit our
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You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated
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