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March 23, 2022 39 mins

In part three we look at the horrific results of the spread of terfs to Mexico before returning to the US to see a transphobic alliance of TERFs and Evangelicals fuse with QAnon to create the current anti-trans movement in America.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to It had Happen Here? A podcast that this
week is about the war on trans people. I'm your host,
Christopher Wong. If you've been around the left long enough,
you've probably heard people called transisclusionary, radical feminism or turf
is m a colonial ideology. Broadly, the accusation of colonialism
is about the erasure of non Western genders to fall

(00:26):
outside the Christian gender binary. But turfs or colonial in
another sense as well, exported by white academics to a
network of fall feminist and anti trafficking groups, the ideology
has imposed itself on the global South, with devastating and
violent consequences. As a product of this colonial imposition, Mexico
has become one of the front lines in the war

(00:47):
against trans people. I spoke to Emmy Flores and Juliana Newhauser,
two members of the Sexual and Gender Dissidence Resistance Network,
a group of activists aligned with the Zapatistas who have
been documenting and resisting the spread of turfs and me
to go when the new Turf Wave started in Mexico
several years back. Um At the time, I thought I

(01:11):
thought of it as something that like a radicalization that
went too farn you know, like kind of like thinking
back to the New Left, and there was a point
during the New Left when like suddenly everybody joined a
Baoist cult and they were angry for the right reasons,

(01:32):
but it just went off. At some point, I thought
that's what was going on in Mexico. But then slowly
it started to come out more that more and more
turf groups were had to tie us to political parties
and one of them and foreign agents. And one of

(01:53):
the one of the most dramatic cases, UM is from
Toluca Sitty near Mexico City. UM just recently at the
International Women's State protests, like there were turf groups that
had made a pinata out of the trans flag, had

(02:14):
been burning the trans flag. Also in this same city,
one of the main turf groups turns out that their
leader is on government payroll. And if you've seen Roma,
for example, the incident, the political incident that happens in
that movie based on real incident from the seventies, and

(02:35):
the tactics of that political party, which is the party
that controls the state government of the state to Lucas
in basically it hasn't changed and they seem to have
been using these turfs basically as shock troops. At one
point there were two sit ins outside the state Congress,
one to push for a gender identity a law and

(02:57):
another to push for the igaliciation of abortion, which are
obviously both important things. The ladder, however, was controlled by
these turf groups, who later mysteriously never seems to appear
at other protests asking for the legalization of abortion. But
they were there and they ran off the trans encampment.

(03:18):
One of them big incidents was defending the sanctity if
the women's bathroom with barbed wire wrapped baseball bats Jesus.
These groups have deep ties to right wing Mexican political parties,
the police, and the growing Turf international, and they seem
to be very chummy with the local police. Their leader

(03:38):
um gives classes, it gives like trainings to the state
government like that. It's it's not subtle, you know. You
can see live strings of the quote unquote protests, and
he was mostly them like drinking coffee with the cops,
like they were on firstly vasis with the cops, while

(04:01):
the the other camp had like translimin the world were
too scared to go to the bathroom because they were
going to be attacked, and so that's the starkest group
I think, right, the delicators, which are Yeah, it's funny
because almost every party has their own the wrong group.
But yeah, also it's not surprised that p r I

(04:24):
is the scariest. Yeah. We should also say that these
groups are affiliates with Jila Jeffreys Women's Speculation International Um.
And so this is also a case of an ideology
developed in the First World, in this case England, which
is largely a safe country where even as fascist and

(04:46):
ideology as turfism doesn't or only very rarely leads to
real violence, and but it gets exported the countries that
are not safe where it does turn into real violence.
So another affiliate UM of Sheila Jefferies Human's Decoration in
Mexico would be Las Bruces Delmar, who is another case

(05:09):
of At first they seemed to be a group that
was just they just radicalized a bit too far. Then
photos came out of their leader who is on the
time one hundred a couple of years back with Felipe Calderon,
an ex president of Mexico and like by far one
of the worst in the country's history, and not like

(05:33):
like just oh, I saw you walking in the street.
She was at a book signing. It was not a
casual encounter. It was a clear sign of admiration in
the It's been more than confirmed since then that her
political ambitions lie with the p AN, the the farthest

(05:55):
right mainstream political party in n School. This political alliance
between the Turfs and the right has benefits for both sides.
The Turf's gained funding institutional backing for their war against
trans people. The right gained a way to attack the
vaguely center left Mexican President Andrea's Manuel Lopez Obrador by
blaming him and trans people from Mexico's horrific wave of femicides,

(06:18):
while distracting from its actual sources NAFTA and the War
on drugs. Mexico's trans population, however, gained a new Western
educated threat. When I say the radical feminism was a
complete import it's from its very beginning in the For
a long while, there was like one Turf in Mexico
and she was She's called gian Maria. Yo, don't even

(06:42):
try to pronounce her name. I don't think she can
even pronounce her name because she's white ass hill and
she's always dresses like she's a fucking Rachel dollars Hill
from Mexico's irony that the first originary in Mexico is
also the Mexican Rachel, right, because she went abroad and

(07:03):
was like the only Mexican everyone knew. So even though
she's white a cell and has blue eyes, she started
wearing some Coachella motherfucking as uh feathers and ship right,
I've seen I've seen these pictures. It's it is, it
is like it is. It is the Mexican version of
and not even just the it is the Mexican version

(07:25):
of those people like Coachella who like wear indigenous head dresses,
who are just like just like look look like they're
descended from like hydroc Hembler or something. And like she's
she has like she has like half French, half Spanish
name and she changed it to a half maya half
novel name. It's gross. So this this person has been

(07:48):
actives in the seventies, right, she went to she was
present in the first Pride in Mexico, and uh she
who that was? That was also the two year anniversary
of the massacre, So Pride was from the start really
leftist here in Mexico, but it also had these kind
of people, the who who went to the UK, friends

(08:14):
and the United States. And I think she was there
when Jennie Raymond was like sending her friends with guns
to to UH threatened trans women, right, So that's she
she She was there when the turf Wars were at

(08:37):
the highest point during the seventies and then came back
and parton. She participating in a lot of history of
Mexican feminism. But the time that she came back in
two thousand sixteen with that letter, with that backing, because
she is also close to Jennie Raymond with the qualities

(09:00):
again against Trafficking in Women who the Coalition against Trafficking,
the Coalition against Trafficking in Women cat W has a
lot of After the Turf Wars, they went underground in
the in academia and the universities, right because they were

(09:20):
no longer accepted, but they were in the process of
building and geos that could globally affect policy on UH,
specifically sex work and trans rights. And you can tell
that gian Maria saw that that was her only opportunity
to resurface UH and to make her seventies as UH

(09:42):
she saw that seventies rat fan discourse was ret right now,
and so she became like this uh found found in
matriarch for the new generation of transfers, one of them
which is a lot of Luana who is part of
FEMBA and the Gean media and Lekuana. We're not faced

(10:03):
at all by the accusations of aligned with the reactionaries
because they know their history, they know where they come from,
and they know that this is how Dorkin survived, this
is how uh how Sheila Jefferies and Jennie Raymond survived.
This is where you get the fucking money. And later

(10:24):
Quana gehn Maria and turned the whole environment around them
into these uh well, these surf questions. The only two
issues that we talked about nowadays in Mexican feminism are
our president and trans people. It's kind of gross Jesus,

(10:47):
and that like remember, like there's only a handful of
states that have legalized deportion. There's femicides happening all the time,
and but we're we continued to debate these two issues
over and over and over again like a feedback group,
and like, as trans people, we don't have any choice

(11:10):
because we're the targets of this right, and it's not
it's not an academic debate. Last fall, um there was
some Turfs who had taken over a public park to
set up their separatist space, and there was a disabled
CIS woman and her trans girlfriend who are denied entry

(11:33):
at the park and threatened with tasers. And so when
they're taking over these public spaces and using violence to
defend them, because the next week there is a protest
over this and they there is a they taste to
transpan and it's like, this is like a public park, like,

(11:56):
of course we have to defend ourselves. M The Coalition
against Trafficking and Women or cat W, an international anti
sex worker group which provided a refuge for white turfs

(12:17):
driven from mainstream feminism in their home countries, has been
a major source of Turfy influence in Latin America. The
reason there is so much important of this ideology towards
radical feminists in Mexico, Uh, it's that they needed something
to say and something to do and something to feel
the void uh in organizing and n geos and the

(12:41):
people who stepped up where Jenny's Raymond's cat W right,
the Coalition Against African in women who since the noneidies,
UH spent UH a decade and a half building contexts
in the in the u N, in the O S

(13:02):
in several international organisms to extend their influence across the
whole continent, specifically in Latin America and UH you can
see this affecting stuff like stuff like Venezuela where they
broke up sex worker unions too two with the the
O A S right and in Mexico, the founding leader

(13:25):
of the Mexican branch of of cad W, Teresa used
to be a un employee, specifically it's drug and crime segment,
and before she was like a radical feminist. She used
to conduct drug rades in Chapa's and yeah, and after

(13:46):
that she became UH the founding member of cad W
Latin America and the Caribbean. And with Janice Raymond, they
you can see them go together to the Beijing Conference
on Women and they influenced like those they they were
a big part of why gender is not recognized as

(14:07):
a social construct by the u N. They allied with
the Holy See, with the representative from the Vatican in
the u N, got together with a couple of radical
feminists and pushed back against gender being recognized as a
social construct in so that's the level of influence these
groups have in Mexico. UH, these groups which morphed into

(14:31):
the c w UH supported the war and drugs from
the get go. They were very high in some of
the biggest events in now curating the war and drugs.
They were present right there, because if you're fighting drug trafficking,
it's very easy to just sleep the word human right there. Right,

(14:55):
No politicians gonna say no. They all fucking love to say, yeah,
I'm hard on on human trafficking. And the way that
UH showed itself A was just targeting trans sex workers
and migrant sex workers. And with that and that feeding
the agenda of Jenny's Raymond perfectly. Sheila Jeffries Gotta basically

(15:16):
survived the whole two thousands on writing garbage for reports
for the u N. Most of her published works during
the two thousands and early twenty tents. It's stuff paid
for cattle, and they they they In two thousands sixteen,

(15:39):
they started pushing for more and more anti trans legislation
worldwide because they could see the writing on the world right.
They were behind the Women's Declaration, the Sheila Jeffries is
not okay, she is part of catally, she's I think
card W Australia. She has her own all other coltics,

(16:00):
all Space International, which is behind Foster system by the way,
in the US, where she allied with a couple of
conservative sheriffs to write the legislation so we could go
on and on on. How like people that read that
our transitions think are gone and forgotten by history. Right,

(16:21):
the the authors of these horrible books that haunt us
to this day are still active, and not just in
the US. They're active in Mexico, in the UK, in France,
in South Africa, in Korea. Korea is huge in I
think I would say Korea is as has as big
a problem as Mexico and the UK. We just don't

(16:44):
talk to them as much and we can't realize that.
But if you check them the languages that have signed
the Shila Jefferis Declaration against trans People, which is a
specifically general sidal, the Coloration Declaration. It doesn't stop at
like legislation. It wants to exterminators out right. Yeah, and
most of them. You were gonna see a lot of

(17:05):
Brazilian flags, a lot of Mexican flax, a lot of
Korean flags, even more than the United States flags. And
if you track the USA flags, it's mostly like weird
randalls that have yoga classes and ship it's not relevant politicians.
But if you track the other countries, you're gonna find
some of the biggest collectives in the in their own countries.

(17:26):
You're gonna find or just spooks. Right, You're gonna find
a lot of people who have really weird careers that
spend a lot of time in Italy and Uganda. It's
it's it's a never ending uh right, whole of of
of spooks, of conservatives, of has been feminists that have

(17:48):
regranted as NGOs to get money from those groups and
directed towards breaking up trans rights, towards affecting sex workers,
towards breaking unions, breaking student movement. It's a global movement
that is birthed by conservative thought, but getting more and

(18:09):
more reactionary and more and more organized as time goes by.
That international transphobic movement has increasingly found purchased in the US.
I spoke to Lee Liaville and Kay Shiver's, two members
of Health Liberation now with intimate experience with the turf
movement who spent years particularly documenting its rise. So my

(18:29):
first question is, can you'll explain what Wolf actually is?
And I guess subsequent to that, what the relationship to
hands across the aisle is? Um? Yeah, so Wolf is. UM.
There are transphobic feminist group UM with at this point

(18:50):
extensive ties to right wing organizations. Um. They've worked with
Family Policy Alliance here, Died Foundation, and Alliance Defending Freedom Concerned,
went for America Family Research Culture among others. Um. But
they um, they got their start um and they started

(19:11):
back in two thousand thirteen around when they were founded
by Lear Keith, who also was one of the leaders
of Deep Cream Resistance, and she basically got like, um,
kind of run out of anarchists and environmentalist groups and
then kind of like went over to uh established like
turf communities try and recruit there. So I sort of

(19:34):
like started out trying to like recruit from these like
older turf and transphobic lesbian communities. And then after Trump
got elected and um, you know, the conservative Christians on
the far right became more mobilized and more empowered. They
kind of like rebranded themselves and we're like, oh, let's
form alliances with these right wing groups, and they kind

(19:56):
of like traded. They're sort of like like crunchy lesbian feminists,
like like image for like Kara Danski, who like you know,
is a straight, fairly feminine looking woman who used to
work for the c LU and like a Democrat and
like you know, she's way more presentable to like the

(20:17):
conservative audience, you know, by working with the right than
they have access to like money and power, and they
can it's easier to get on the media. Like like
Kara Dansky is no longer with Wolf, but like she
was with them for years and still has relations like
like good relations with them, and she's been on the
Tucker Carlson Show like many times. So I think one

(20:39):
of the important pieces when it comes to understanding like
how this relationship with the right started. So in in
late two thousand and sixteen, Wolf put forward they're filing
against the US Department of Justice and US Department of Education, right,
and they were going up against aspects of like trying

(21:02):
to reform Title nine to include gender identity, you know,
to to protect folks um who need to be able
to use the like women's restroom, our locker room or whatever, right,
And this is the case that they ended up getting
some of the a d F funding for. So it's
like one of the first official seeds I guess of

(21:23):
the direct collaboration ended up happening. Those A lot of
that stuff did up eventually end up getting leaked, and
then they started doing some more official collaborations. Just a
few months later, Um, when they were working with like
Family Policy Alliance, um Bile Amicust briefs against Gavin Grimm
again out of bathroom case. Yeah, they took something like

(21:44):
I think was like fifteen dollars from the Alliance depending Freedom,
which is one of the main right wing groups like
like trying to pass all these like anti trams bills
like going after a pediatric transition and trans girls and
in women's sports. So they took that money. And then yeah,
then later I think like, um, the whole working with
Family Policy Alliance I believe was the first time they

(22:04):
like publicly allied with with the right ring group. I think.
So that yeah, in January of two thousand seventeen. Yeah,
and then they've just sort of like yeah, like they
also were involved with like the Amicast frieze against was
it Amy Stephens, um another Supreme Court case. I can't remember, Yeah,
I wouldn't surprise me. And like members of both of

(22:25):
a period on like Heritage Foundation panels, they helped like
released a parent Resource Guide and anti transparent Resource Guide
that was also sponsored by like Heritage Foundation, Family Policy Alliance.
This this this is very similar to almost exactly what
you see in Mexico, with just sort of slightly less
physical violence, which yeah, it's it's a lot of you know.

(22:46):
And the the other thing is that these are to
a large extent exactly the same organizations. And that was
one of the other things I want to talk about
was the influence of Sheila Jeffreys and the Women's Decoration,
which has been all over this whole movement. Yeah. The
one thing to point out, so, like you know, the
Women's Declaration International is in this in the US is

(23:08):
led by Kara Danski, who Yo, she like basically like
left you worked at Wolf for a long time and
still has lots of connections with them, is on good
terms with them, but she like left and now is
like working with Women Declaration International of US France. So
and she winds up having kind of like a foot
in both worlds at the same time too, so like

(23:29):
she'll like the US chapter Women's Declaration International previously like
Women's Team and Rights Campaign before they had to rebrand
um they but if if you if you read this
COMMI yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. Um So, what what ends

(23:55):
up happening is that Karen Danski will either like have
the chapter sponsor particular events or she herself will become
actively involved in the formation of the events, right, which
we saw happen with UM women pick at d C
last year where they were parking themselves outside of that

(24:19):
was like it was a well that was that was
a whole fix. Oh god, it was the purchase that
happened on International Women's Day to protest the Equality Act. Yeah.
And it's not like it's people's first time dealing with
the Equality Act either. I mean, like so prior prior

(24:42):
to that point, which and this starts to go into
the like hands across the Aisle Coalition because they were
actively involved in opposing the Equality Act as well. So
to to kind of roll back a little bit, um
that the hands across the Aisle Coalition. This was something

(25:03):
that started developing in early two thousand seventeen, you know,
not that long after Wolf started building the more direct
relationships with the right and so that the people of
this coalition would have like you would have members of
the right itself. And in the process of that um,

(25:23):
towards the beginning of two thousand nineteen, in May, they
filed this joint letter to the House of Representative Speaker
Nancy Pelosi to oppose things like the Equality Act UM
and they did so alongside with Natasha Chart representing Wolf,

(25:45):
Concerned Women for America, American College of Pediatricians Family Research Council.
You know, a whole bunch of really just awful names,
and they're, oh, yeah, the idea was involved in that one. Yes,
it's really the Rose Gallery of all of the people
who were anti gay marriage until we've still are but
have downplayed it. And yeah, all people who let the
anti game marriage campaigns, all of the sort of weird

(26:07):
right wing pseudo medical bodies. The next thing I wanted
to ask about is what's been happening in the last
couple of years with the fusion, because I mean, so
you already have your your alliance between the Turfs and

(26:31):
the Evangelicals, but in the last couple of years we've
seen a I don't know if if full scale is
the right term to use for it. But we've seen
a merger of this with Save the Children in Q
and ON stuff, and I'm wondering if you can talk
about that that's okay. So that's an interesting one because
like I've I've been digging into the timeline of this

(26:54):
stuff extensively. It's like I've got hundreds un rates of
listings trying to figure out where different cases are coming
from and trying to understand like the phases. Right, So
you've you've got like the formation, the solidification, and then
the escalation, and we're kind of in the escalation stage

(27:15):
right now. But so one of the things that I
started to notice is that elements of this crossover, like
the cross pollination that was happening, actually predated certain key
events that we now now are affiliated with Q and ON. Right,

(27:36):
So if we think about the actual like development of
Q and ON itself, So you've got the pizza Gate
thing that was happening in like October two thousand sixteen.
I believe that was, um, you know, right before Trump
was getting elected and you know, kicking up some stuff

(27:58):
about like you know, Hillary Clinton's emails and stuff like
that to go up against her election campaign in opposition
to Trump, and then you know, folding in the harassment
towards um comment ping Pong to the point where like
Edgar Madison Wealth shows up at comment Ping Pong in
December of two thousand sixteen with an a R fifteen

(28:20):
style rifle and starts, you know, firing off his shots
and stuff like that. Right, and so eventually, um, most
people know that the timeline of the Q and on
drops happening around like October two thousand seventeen. Like if
you look up the original like the first known Q drops,
I believe that was like October two seventeen on four Chan.

(28:45):
But the thing is that if you look at references
to save the Children or save our Children on like Twitter,
the hashtags, and you're also looking for transphobia related stuf up,
you can actually start to see that crossover happening before
the original que drops happened, Right, Yeah, I found I

(29:08):
found tweets that were connecting trans inclusion education in schools
to pedophilia and using the save the children hashtag. In
August of two thousand seventeen, the que drops hadn't started yet.
So and this is something this pattern continues to happen, right,
There were also multiple UM you know, tweets or Facebook

(29:31):
posts or whatever that would start to use things like
save the Children, Save our Children, wake Up America, and
stuff like that before you would have the big scale
takeover by Q and on when things were starting to
get really popular, because the save the Children thing really
went viral in the summer of but you could still

(29:55):
see elements of it before that point. Repeatedly out. Another
early instance of using both save the Children and Wake
Up America hashtags started happening on UM April. I believe
that is a two thousand nineteen and bear in mind
wake Up America UM is a hashtag that's not only

(30:18):
used by Q and on proponents UM in relation to
the whole like accelerationism. I'm trying to yet deep state
stuff UM, but also like Aaron Brewer, one of the
people that was involved in some of the clinic protests harassments,
was using that exactly. No, it wasn't just It was

(30:39):
wasn't just Brewer, it was like both brew It was
that was the clinic protest that involved both UM partners
gilthicalk RPC, which Brewer was remember like one of the
founders of at the time and one of the leaders
of and Joey Bright's like can't I get a witness?
Like they teamed up to stage a bunch of clinic
protests that they used wake up like wag of America

(30:59):
with one of the slogans that they used in one
of the hashtags to to to make sure we're getting this. Uh,
these are protest against clinics that offer gender firm and care. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah that um yeah that happened that one, so yeah,
the way Up America one was in um felt like City,

(31:23):
New York City and l A. Yeah. And they also,
I mean speaking of us, they also have used the
slogan pulled back the curtain um, which has also been
used by uh like anti choice activists, Like that was
I remember, like like finding like they used pulled back

(31:44):
the curtain a lot to be like they what they
mean is like they're like exposed the evil gender industry.
But like there's other this like um anti abortion group.
I'm blanking on which one off the top of my head.
But they also used that um pulled back the curtain
to go after planning parent it yeah, which I think
is like probably like that doesn't in for a direct connection,

(32:06):
but it seems like that's too much of a coincidence
in one of the one of the things that I
really want to stress about this called like what I
call tan on thing, is that like the seeds for this,
the cross pollination that we are seeing happening between the
gender critical movement, Pizza Gate, and Q and on, like

(32:28):
these were already in place before Q and On formally
developed as its own phenomenon. This keeps happening. It's you
can't really like figure out where one particular type of
rhetoric is necessarily coming from in terms of its source,
because it just keeps going back and forth repeatedly. People

(32:50):
are acting like they're coming up with a lot of
the same ideas together because in the end, in the end,
they are of the same routs. They are in fundamental
agreement with each other, whether they're calling themselves different names.
I think that's that's worrying to me in a lot

(33:11):
of ways, partly because you know, I mean, this has
always been something where if you look at the rhetoric
that these people are spreading, it's like it's explicitly extermination ist,
Like it's it's you know, like they they're they're storychiatric terrorists,
like in search of a like a quote unquote load wolf,
and in a lot of you know, and in the

(33:31):
in the seventies, I think they were there's there's a
lot more explicit violence that these people are doing directly,
and now they're kind of like they're they're they're trying
to find people who will do their already work for them,
and there are places where they found them already. We've
seen this in Mexico and in the US. The people
who they seem to be recruiting are people who are

(33:52):
extremely dangerous. We've we've seen q and on people have
killed enormous numbers of people. Um, you know, we've there's
a long history of of abortion clinic bombings and people
getting assassinated for that. I mean, I think, you know,
one of the connections that I've been sort of like
looking at is the extent to which this stuff is
connected to the Atlantis shooting. Because if you if you

(34:14):
look at the stuff, the Atlanta shooter believes it's you know,
like he's in this like in the same sort of
Christian patriarchal project, and his thing is specifically about sex workers.
But hey, look if you look at yeah, but not
particularly Asian sex workers. And you know, if if if
you if you look at the anti trafficking groups, you
look at the Christian anti trafficking groups, and you look

(34:34):
at the vent diagram with them and the Turfs, it's like, oh,
and people are involved, yeah, particular world, and yeah, there's
there's this kind of vice closing in on trans people
were on the one hand, you have these people attempting
to employ the violence of the state, and on the

(34:55):
other hand you have this sort of story giatric terrorism,
where are attempting to incite violence by sort of individuals.
And then also I mean, I think I think there's
you know, there's sort of there's sort of two forms
of this, right there's the explicit people who are explicitly
like quote unquote political right of you have your sort
of like ideological street fascist. You have like you know,
you have your people with baseball bast covered and barred wire.

(35:19):
But then you also have the stuff that's been fueling
antiation violence where it's not necessarily like you know, there
is this is an organization that like Hayes Asian people,
it's we will just sort of passively increase the rhetoric
until the level of violence increases. Yeah. Yeah, it kind
of got like you've got the street fash and then
you've got the intellectual fash. Yeah. Well, and and I

(35:41):
think but I think also there's there's another like if
it was just those people, I think it'd be less bad.
But but there's also just the way in which just
random people who are encountering this become very quickly radicalized
and it becomes part of sort of I mean, in church,
roubic violence has always been part of the sort of
background violence in the same way that anti black and
to I mean, you know, okay, the level of anti

(36:02):
black violence is much higher, but like the level of
violence against black trans people in particular, and the level
of anti asition violence we've been seeing that has just
sort of it's just a part of the background violence
of American society, and that the levels of those things,
the more this rhetoric gets circulated and the more this
activism happens, that background level of violence increases, And that

(36:25):
to me is also terrifying because it means like it's
not just sort of like fascist that you can track,
it's just someone on the street. Yeah, and like yeah,
they're just sort of like trying to like like associate
like well, I mean a lot of the like yeah
that like people like like Feli and Aaron m Alex

(36:47):
their and the Gender Mapper and Joey Brands uff like that,
like they're they're hardcore like elimination as like they're like
they're over and over. There could be no compromised. And
I would also especially like anti fascist networks to pay
more attention to it, as you know, the solidarity with
trans people is just as important as solidarity with like

(37:08):
racial and ethnic minorities when it comes to combating fact, right,
especially since like there are a number of us that
are in multiple categories, so like let's all work together
and try to like you know, be proactive about combating
the threat. Right. So my my tan on Um collections,

(37:30):
I guess like I only have two reports on it
so far because getting into the full detail is just
it is a lengthy project, and I keep getting distracted
by by the conversion therapy stuff. There's so much stuff
to research, and there's like we're like two people and

(37:52):
and yeah, anyway, so ever, in terms of finding that
like the original kind of like broader views of tn
on both like what it is in terms of like
the one oh one kind of stuff, and also like
the timeline of where it came from. You can find

(38:14):
it on Health Liberation Now dot com. We have a
little tap there that has like analysis and then if
you go down to key issues, you can find a
tn on tag there right and it'll have that stuff
in there. This has been a thing that throughout this
entire series, which is that most of the information on
this stuff has been compiled by a very small number

(38:36):
of trans people, and that cannot stay the states of
this because there are just not enough trans people and
they are extremely overworked. Yeah, and if that's a project
that you can take up, please do that, Yes, please, yes,
hands on deck, I'll hands on back. Yeah, because the

(38:56):
seriousness of this is such that if you want there
to be trans people living in a way that does
not actively destroy them, you have to act now. Yeah. Basically, yeah,
this has been It could Happen here a product of
cool Zone Media. Suppress your local turfs before it's too late, Goodbye.

(39:21):
It could happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool Zone media dot com or check us out on
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
listen to podcasts, you can find sources for It could
happen here, Updated monthly at cool Zone media dot com
slash sources. Thanks for listening.

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