March 26, 2024 • 36 mins
James talks to Aung Kyaw Moe about the recent fighting in Rakhine state, the Junta forcibly conscripting Rohingya people, and how to build a democratic Myanmar that’s inclusive for all faiths and ethnicities.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
All the media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello everyone, welcome to the podcast today. We have a
very interesting issue. You're very lucky to be joined by Onomo,
who we've heard from before, who is a minister who
is hindering in the National Unity Government of Burma or Myanmar,
both of those words are okay, And we're talking about
the situation of Rhinga people and the development sort of
(00:26):
happened in Rakaine State since I guess since the beginning
of Operation ten twenty seven. So welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Thank you so much day, thanks for having me and
it's good to be back with you to this show.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you. Yeah, no, it's wonderful to have you back
and we're very fortunate. So I wonder if we could
start by summarizing for listeners the things sort have happened
in the last few months in Rakaine State, because there
have been some massive changes since maybe listeners were last
aware of what was happening there.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Yeah, sure, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Since the coup, there were on and off fights between
the Arcana Army and there and the Malasia Hunters process
in Rakaina State. However, in the interest of the of
the of the humanitary and neat, both parties came to
enter to a ceasefire agreement.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
In between. However, the fight.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Against the military junta in me and Mark started in
different part of Me and Mark continued to be accelerating
and most recently the ten twenty seven and followed by
others operations in in Crimey estate has has been has
been quite rapidly spreading across the country and that's definitely
(01:48):
went through ra kinda state where resumed to target the
the the junta in its political objective to be to
be reaching.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
That's the situations we are today that the Arkan Army
has been in very good positions to be dismantling the
Hunter's forces in our kind of state. And so far
since Operation twenty seven ten twenty seven Salad, more than
half of the township districts in our kinda state has
(02:20):
been ceased by the Arkhan Army, including some of those
were majority of Runa lifts. And it's continued to be
under in a very literating situations.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, at the end, they've they've even sunk Hunter ships
or captured them in some cases. I think it's been
a bit of a that there was a video that
was quite like maybe not viruls around word certainly I
saw a lot but of border guard forces right, which
are like a militia's allied to the hunter, like fleeing
into Bangladesh.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
This is another the border guard process are from mostly
from militaries, their train militaries, their uniforms are changed into
border guard force due to different agreement with that exists
between two states in allocating. It's true along the border
side and the border guard forces are one of the
(03:19):
most primary forces that's deported through Highen and run the
Rohingia's forces in twenty seven and make them flee. So
six years later as the same vdps who committed to
the crimes against the Rhinga atrocities that include crimes against
humanity and war crimes had to flee to Bangladesh in
(03:41):
a quite similar way to refuge.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
And so it's sort of.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Karma or whatever you put it in a way and
the perceptions and reality of course when it's it's kind
of confrontations between the two groups are army and the military.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Countless sources.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
The reality that has been defined by most of ours,
nimianmar and across that. We used to believe that the
Burmese military is a strong vote by human resource and equipment,
and then in reality they are very weak and our
army has proved by dismantling a various battalion in country
battalion and even capturing alive like second ice commanding officer
(04:26):
in the whole of the kind of state. And also
many senior level officer has been has been killed over this.
That so the reality perception has been deeper on the
NMR military when we look it from from external perspective.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, and I think just in case listeners aren't familiar,
it can be very confusing if you don't read about
this stuff all the time. It's sort of the alphabet
soup of organizations, and especially with reference to Rahinga and
Rakind State, because we have of Hinga armed groups or
armed groups which drove mostly from Ahinga people that don't
(05:06):
necessarily represent them all. And then we have the AA. Son,
can you explain the AA's relationship to Rakind State and
then how they relate to Ahinga people.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
A has been.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Established in two thousand and nine with aims to be
having confederations and not less than war, which is another
special regimes and more with a special autonomy, and it
has been led by some young people and it has
been quite a leadership as well within their kind political stuctrum,
(05:46):
and he has been growing very op italy and the
acceptance of the of the people, particularly kind people has
been very high. Therefore the resource allocations that he got
from human resource to other resources to be rapidly coping
with that group growth has been high, and that put
them in a position is to be standing in front
(06:08):
of a Hunta in a very stronger positions and defeat
them and very rapidly. And of course the Arkhan Army
which would refer here a SAE, is not as inclusive
as ra kind Ra kind of state is very diverse
and it has got a multiple ethnic group. The largest
ethnic group is Rakin religiously with these people and to
(06:32):
which the majority of army's leadership derived from there. And
the second largest majority, which are the Rwinga and Toroina,
are still the second largest majority in the rack kind
of states. Despite a milion being pushed off to Bangladesh
in twenty seventeen and several hundred thousand spreaded across the
region and the inclusivity in an Arcan army is still
(06:58):
still not there.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
When when we talk about Rhingia that's mean that there
might be some small small number of Rhingia's in different
battalions of Arkan Army and the administrative units that they're
building at a very crossroot level.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
However, the the the Ringien.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Need to be included both by functions and in order
to have to describe that relationship and inclusively between the
Rhenia people and the Arkan Army.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, and it's that Arakan. Is that Rakhan is the
name of the area before it was called Rakay state?
Is that right?
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Correct?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
It's even it's before Burma became Burma. Arkhan I was
a king kingdom and it used to have its own
palace and it's diversity, it's high page and it's natural resources.
And then of course the Burmese colonizations happened to the
Burma and Uh and later on Urkan has been named
(07:55):
as rakinda state.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, so it describes a geographical rather than ethnic identity, right,
which is distinct from some of the other revolutionary organizations
like Karrank or any or what have you.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I think there are similarities and as well as there
are differences when when when you put them together and
and from a diversity perspective, of a kind of state.
It's very diverse compared to other ethnic groups. And and
also it's politically very complex. Uh so the the, the the,
but over their overall similarities as well, like like you know,
(08:30):
all are fighting to defeat the hunter to Yea to
end the dictatorship in Melmar. But the the the, the
primary thing here is the self interminations and self autonomy,
like people want to decide to determine what is their
present and official look like, how they want to treat
with their past.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
That's the the the the the aspect. But of course
the the like.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
To my to the best of my knowledge, these ethnic
resistance organizations, both political and and and the armed groups
have never claimed that they want to separate from Yanmar'. Yes,
it's coming together in a different way. The holding together
would be in a different way.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, And even when they speak to Bama people who
are like the majority ethnicity and the ethnicity from which
the junta's leadership had rule, and like they tell me,
they're committed to a federal and like a federal Mianma
with autonomy for these different regions and groups. And that's
something that has held that coalition together.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Right, Yeah, approximately more than fifty million populations in.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Majority are Aburmese Buddhists.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
And they have been having this Buddhist supremacy and like
Bama's supremacy over ethnic and religious minorities across the country.
And of course Katchinker and others and went to desromine
their picture by them and have the equality both their
(10:02):
functions and number. And that's where we're having these seventy
years long civil war. You know, that's came to collective
revolutions in twenty twenty one, and history really speaking, people
have been fighting in Enmark for equality, justice and to
(10:22):
end the cycle of impunity for the last seventeen plus years.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Great. I think that's a great place to take our
first advertising break. All right, and we're back. I think
you did an excellent job of explaining the history the
Goddess here, and people will be very familiar with the
(10:48):
trustees committed by the Burmese military and its proxies against
Sirrhinga people, I hope. But one thing that's been happening
recently which are particularly appalling is the forced recruitment of
Behingar Peopleinga people buy that same military, right, can you
explain what's been going on.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So the conscriptions law has been reactivated. It has been
there large by the previous military catis, but it has
not been active. And so since the Hunter has been
falling apart and collapsing, not only were kind of state
(11:29):
across the country there wherever they fight, they lose, and
they are battalions by battalion that's UH, that's running away
the to Thailand, running away to India, running away to
Bangladesh and and putting white black. And there are several casualties.
And apparently the Hunter became the largest military equipment supplier
(11:52):
to the to the revolutionary force.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Where we did not get we did.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Not get international support when when young people actually smadels
and writers point decided to go to the forest to
do to fight against this center, and there was little
to no international support.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
And we have been struggling to to to equip ourselves
to fight this center.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And and of course the the resilience and the courage
that young people had and the tactical and strategy capacity
that the ethnic resistance organization had in combined became a factor.
UH to have an a strategic sourcing of the military
equipment and Hunter like battalion by battalion. You don't need
(12:41):
to buy the weapons and military tang and things like that.
You you go and fight one battalion and they run
away or they die, and then you take over the
That's how the the whole old thing started in in
In Then when they are losing the they reactivated these
(13:01):
conscriptions law and started to in the interest of making
mandustry everyone to be serving by force in the in
the military by chance. And of course when it's come
to a kind of state or a kind of state,
the six hundred thousand Ringa and t one hundred and
fifty to sixty of them has been in concentration camp,
(13:23):
consolidated in one place with movement restrictions, no access to education,
healthcare and things like that, where they have been living
more than a decade in some of those camp and
villages where those people who are not in the camp
as well has been imposed by additional movement restrictions. So
(13:44):
you don't need to really go and mobilize people to
be forcefully recruiting. And at the beginning the junta went
to them and to give them sort of show them
incentive of like you will become the citizens and will
give that and we'll give.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
That and you need to fight against the.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
The army and of course the grassroot. The leader community
leader responded in a way that they need to respond
to reject the requests from from the from the military.
Hometoend and Maliti started to of course imposed by using
the force. And as I mentioned earlier, they will need
(14:21):
to like when you have consolidated people that amount of
young people doing nothing and you just go and catch
them and put them on a truck, and some of
them don't know where they are going because their whole
life has been in this camp. Like when you're six
years old and you are now eighteen and it's mandustry
for you to be serving in the military, and you
don't know what is happening in our side of your camp.
Because so that's how really the the and then we
(14:46):
got these news and of course we have been talking
different community leaders and the community has been approaching to
us as a government and we make there are several
media coverage as well. Then the military started to see
these uh, these Bengalis are not not referring to the Hinga,
are not the citizens of Therefore there is no way
(15:08):
that we we we make them served in the in
the military.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
So those are fakings that.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
So they use these States propaganda TV channel and the
state newspaper which is now under control of SUCK to
deny that. And on seventh October, seventh sorry, seven March,
the the those who they have kind of stripted, uh
more than five hundred has been brought into into the
(15:35):
commanding office of the Hunter to be training in full uniform.
Some of them those inside there has got managed to
get internet internet access and then said to me the
video footage what is happening on the inside there, So
I I posted that on my Twitter and and then
it's it's spread it from there and then we we
(15:58):
call them like their denial and it's the lives that
they have been putting by denying that when Ronio we're
not conscripted, ah was wrong. And then a few days
later they have been sent to the front line to
fight against a And then there are hundreds of those
ruhingas who were who died.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
In this front line while and the Hunter.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Cake came back a few days later talking to their
family saying that okape hundred plus people.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Has died and we don't know who is who.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
And when we bring your dad, buddy, you will will
be able to be identified.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
And the first dead body that they brought.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
And handed over to the clam the and the community
leader with one million jets which is three hundred and
fifty dollars plus one hundred kg of rice as an
incentive for the life that they have given in the fighting.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
So that's the situations, and we can of course continue.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, that's very bleak, isn't it. So this and we've
seen just today actually people have been online today there
was a protest in Rapine State somewhere for a hindred
people rejecting the our economy. Can can you explain like
that might not be what it seems on the face
of it, right? Can can you explain what might be
(17:17):
happening there?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
The situations in ra kind of state has been very
much complex because there are there are hidden factors being
created are e officially created by the hunter. For so
long from the two thousand and twenty twelve twenty seventeen,
between these different communities, there has been always interdependency and
social equation to somewhat level. But HUNDA always used the
(17:43):
divide and rule methodology to bring the conflict between these
community and hate each other and then they can carry
out what they need to do as a powerholder.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
And of course when.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
The arconomy is getting greater control over the over kind
of state and the hunter is losing, UH, the the
the Melochiy hunt and it used all tactics that they have,
including the the the UH, the intercommunal tensions and and
so they they are ruhinga few Ringia maybe who has
(18:21):
businesses with these UH, this hunter are being used as
a proxy to push pressure of pressure on the Ruhingia
and to organize. And so that's why the protest started
a few years ago. UH in one of the townships
in the China state, we're eighty to ninety percent are
(18:42):
rowinga and claiming that we don't want war and we
don't want EE. And of course this can be happening
artificially organically, and it's so artificial, and anyone who looks
into this video footage, I can see that the Ruhingia
never had in their life, like those who are protesting
never know what is means, freedom of expression means. And suddenly,
(19:05):
in one random morning, one hundred hundred of Ruwinga, including minors, children,
coming on the streets and protesting is is not something normal.
It can happen without without.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
The uh uh.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
And of course, majority of the of the Rhingia are
peace loving people and they want Burma to be an
inclusive federal democracy and they want.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
To be part of it, and we are.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
That's why I myself as a Ruhinga taking a leading
rule in in the government, as the first Ruhinga holding
back ministrial positions in the cabinet since.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Nineteen sixty two.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
And and and of course the the the Ruhingo equally
want the to end the dictatorship once and for all
because that very junta has been committing trustities, crimes, including
crimes against humanity and to genocides to Uringa. This is
the very same electry who deported a million ringer killed
(20:03):
more than twenty four thousands of people in burning children's
life in twenty seventeen. So in which way that ring
collectively will come and ascend with this shuna with the
whole country. So this is not this is really not
something organic, and this is artificial. This is too big
(20:23):
and this is so like hunter made to fit into
be fitting into their political propaganda.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, and I think one has to when we was
looking at things in MEMR be aware that the Hunter
just doesn't care about lying. It's something they've done for
a long time. I apparently can't download iHeart podcasts in
Memo now, Like someone tried to download our podcast there
and so they had to use a VPN. But yeah,
they manipulate the media environment heavily, like you can read
(20:50):
Hunt newspapers and some of its comically false. But one
thing I did want to talk about is like when
I talk to young PDS fighters, and I've spoken to
dozens of them now, people who are Koreni, people who
are Korene, people who are Bama, people who are Kitchin,
they a lot of them say to me that, like
(21:11):
what happened in twenty seventeen was atrocious and at the
time they didn't realize because of this manipulated media environment,
they didn't realize that the way the Rahinda were being
treated was so appalling, and that now they're very upset
about what happened. And like for them, I guess the
litmus test for like a future for Burma is one
(21:33):
that can include Rahinja people and so like with that
in mind, I guess we've seen this kind of changing
of language right where Previously they were referred to as
Bangladeshi and then now they're referred to as Muslim or
Hinga people. I guess can you just explain, like what
is the n UGPDF kind of like how how do
(21:59):
we ensure in dependence and safety for a hanger people
in Myanmar in a federal democratic future without a dictatorship.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
We're in a context of identity politics where the identity
is so much associated with very rights, whether it's political, social,
and economical right that you deserve and what you need
to give back as an active obliged citizens, and obligations
to the country that you belong. Therefore, the identity the
(22:30):
Rhinga is a primary thing for Ruhinga to be enjoying
equal freedom and to be able to contribute equally as
others in the nation building process. And of course before
twenty seventeen, even before that, there has been a lot
of misinformation, disinformations, propaganda are widespread state sponsored against the
(22:53):
Ruhinga to that could be a misleading and incitement of violence.
And and and the trum Bengali is a trum that's
refer that you're coming from Bangladesh.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Illegally and you're illegally as you settling. That's how the
terms came direct from.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Its false it's a false accusation.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
It's false accusations.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
And the the the the Ruhingia people has existed in
the kind of states side by side with your kind people,
even Burma became Burma and their historical facts that there
are so many undeniable things that you could you could
look into and into into various historical facts, and so
(23:41):
the the in between. Of course, the Rhingia the trum
become illegal and the military denied it, rejected it, and
then they started to use the Troum Bengali and the
most of the Burmese people fall into that trap. And
even somewhere either silent thing in this horrific genocideal attack
in twenty seven in or somewhere taking sight of a
(24:03):
military at that time that it's okay to kill and
it's okay to and of course these are being being
propelled by all misinformations and disinformation that our earlier mentioned and.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
Twenty one attempted could happened.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
And that's where a new perspective is being offered to
the people of me and Mar because the same military
that has been carrying out atrocities clans against the Rhingia
and other minorities came to larger Ma people doing the
same thing.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
So what has been told to us by.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
The Ruhinga and the religious and ethnic minority in Enmar
for the decade came to be true. And that's how
the acceptance of the Ruhinga has started to grow. Of course,
it's not to the level that we would be satisfied
with yet. It's a process and there is so much
to unlearn because one provoking factor like attempted to should
(25:02):
like wouldn't fix a problem that has been there for
for decades.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
And a National Unity.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Government declared that we accept the chum Ruhinga, and there
has been a policy stating very clearly in twenty twenty
one June, and that policy to be implemented of course
when the situation is conducive and there are significant challenges
with the territorial control and things like that when it's come.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
But again, the momentum that.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
I mentioned we got as a result of extreme evolutions
need to be maintained in the higher scale. That's not
only the Ruhinga and anything that's wrong, that's primarily that's
principle and value are strong. I need to be able
to see it wrong, regardless of whoever it is, and
regardless of race and religion. If we are talking about
(25:55):
federal inclusive democracy, we cannot preach our people or international
community saying that support us or asking for support or
be a part of this movement where we see a
sepri floud fishers and inclusive federal democracy. We're actual values
that we are not practicing by ourselves. So before we preach,
(26:15):
we need to we need to act upon those principles
by ourselves. And overall, I would say, the all the
loss that we had, including life and livelihood, that hundred
and hundred of people, thousands of people has been killed, jailed,
and hundreds of people villagers, township has been destroyed, the
(26:36):
good thing that we got is the the these consciousness
on the morality.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
And if we're able to accelerate that consciousness at the
greatest scale, that's.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Where we will.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Be able to maintain the values and principle of the
inclusive federal democracy.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
That will be the pillar to maintain this as a process.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, I think so it's really fast neating to talk
to young people. I was talking to some mandal a
PDF people not so long ago, and they were like,
oh yeah, well, when we left, we were told that
like the Tang would hate us because we're Burmese and
they would fight us. And then they're like, oh, they're
really nice, Like this is a guy right next to me,
and they're like because they're joined up together. Now the
(27:18):
PDFs and and the eros are largely fighting side by
side against is there like the PDF forces present in
rakind state as well.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
No, there is Arkan Army particularly which is an allies
with the with the we have been there have been
multiple intric like you know, there are we have Alliance
Relations Committee that we deal with all the alliance as
National Unity Government and of course they have been playing
(27:49):
in an important role in defeating the content. And there
is no PDF in the Kinda state.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Okay, yeah, so it's a little different there. Other often
the PDF and the eras are very similar in fight
sorr by side.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Also, our army is not tracked alone in the kind
Of state.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
They're almost also in in Sharna State and they're yes
fighting with not only in the China state. So like
when we talk about like even though the physical epidios
are not there, it doesn't mean that there is no
military connect to military connections between the ethnic organizations that
(28:26):
exists across the country.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, and like we've seen that a lot since October,
and like since the Three brother Alliance started their campaign.
That moves hunter forces to one place, and that allows
other people like the Kareni to take advantage of the
way those forces have moved and they've liberated huge parts
of their territory. So okay, it's all joined, I guess.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
The tricky part that they have used in the past
is like hidden cut, is that they will do sea
fight in one part of the country and they will
allocate all of their resources in another part of the country,
and where they will defeat or they will at least
like come to bargaining positions.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Let's not quite anymore.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
And and you stay where you are and don't don't
try to like you know, and and it's Funta who
violate again all all these agreements that usually sell. And
this time it's so coordinated across the country that the
Junta cannot be able to position themselves or estrategize themselves
(29:30):
or foot then themselves in the tactical positions. Their old
tactic did not work in the modern coordinations of the
PDF and Ethnic Resistance Organization. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
No, They've tried multiple times to have regular individuals fires
and it hasn't worked. So I wanted to ask just
to finish up. People I think who listen to this
will be very familiar the situation in Miyama, and they
(30:01):
want to help, and they see that the international community
is doing nothing, and I think a lot of people
are rightly very upset about that. So what can people
do to help and especially to advocate for Rhinga people.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Particularly when it's come to the Rhindia people.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Ringa people crisis is so much interconnected with Burmese democratization process.
Ruhindia will not be able to have a life that dignified, say,
and in their place of origin unless the Burma is
solely in the hand of a civilian government. So the
democratization process that whole ver is attempting to make need
(30:41):
to be supported by international community.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
As I mentioned.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Earlier, so far we got little to no international support.
And on the Ruhinga crisis as well. There's one million
people in Bangladesh where their Russians are cuts to eight
dollars per month per person and which is a couple
of in the United States and and UH, and there
(31:04):
is a greater danger of hunger, restorvations and malnitary nutrition
and UH and so many other social economic problems that
would have an impact on the regional security stability and
things like that if the shortfall remains UH funding short
call remains for for for for for for the for
(31:25):
the nia that's on the humanustrian and and of course
Rhingia need to be politically organized in order to be
to be fitting into the changing political dynamics of mr.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
Uringia has been oppressed.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
They were not able to form study organizations, they were
not able to be educating themselves. So all these societial
leadership aspect need to be supported, including having a company
like having an organized political platform for for Ringa which
will be able to represent Shuringa in the larger polity table,
(32:02):
ensuring their voices are hard and they able to equally
take the rights that they deserve.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
And more importantly equal equally.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Able to contribute to a decision that will have an
impact on their life. And the United States has determined
the crimes against Ruhinga as genocide two years before. And
of course the genocide discrimination does not simply is an announcement.
(32:32):
It's come with the moral and legal responsibility. So we
do want to require the United States and it's people
to formally extent on the moral and legal obligations that
it has in ensuring that the Ruhinga are able to
live equally peacefully and more importantly, the justice that they
deserve on the on the physical and mental damage that
(32:54):
happened as part of the genocide. And it was picked
in twenty seventeen, it's continued to be happening today and
even today one hundred and fifty people were arriving in Archi, Indonesia,
where the Indonesian people who were showing greater humanity in
opening their arms and parts to be accepting Ruhinga, are
denying the Rhinga. So for the Ruhinga, there is little
(33:16):
to no space to be accommodated, both in regional and
international and local setting, and it is very important that
we are able to tackle and navigate these issues together
with the international community in an innovative, effective, efficient and
sustainable way for the sake of humanity. And there are
(33:39):
competing priorities across the world, but the international community is
we are so aware that international community is capable of
doing more than one thing at a time.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
It doesn't have to be either.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
All, No, it can be both, and it should be right.
Like obviously people are very concerned with the plight of
Palestinian people, rightly so at the moment. But yes, we
should remember that as a Muslim people have been subject
to genocide for the last needed for seven years, I suppose,
and it's ongoing, and they deserve our support and solidarity
as well. Yeah, I hope, yeah, yeah, I mean it
(34:13):
does seem like, I guess a little more hopeful than
it was even a couple of years ago that there
will be a democratic.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Mean, and.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Yeah, the journey is.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Is almost think and what we need is greater international support.
Like support doesn't mean just you know, releasing the statement,
meaningful comprehensive support that we are able to defeat this
Manta once and for all, for the sake of people
of me and Mark fifty plus million people giving the
(34:50):
price at the highest possible price in their life that
include again the lives and livelihood. An international community was
not doing more than condemnations for releasing a statement of
concern over the last three years, so it's time to
act and an international community again has to answer this
question to next generations when there's a questions on the
(35:14):
morality we're the international community when the genocide comes against
community and war came has been happening two million anything
some people in the eyes of international community.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, no, I hope they do. And it's incredible the
progress that has been made without that support. And I
think it's just incredible to me that even I remember
in twenty twenty one talking to people who were just
beginning their fight, and to see how far they've come
is outstanding. Yeah, and yeah, people should be very proud
(35:48):
of that. But it doesn't mean that they don't need
more support.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
They do.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Doesn't mean that they don't need surface to our missiles.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
They do. Like, yeah, that it's the.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Thing that we should be doing. Thank you so much
for joining us. We really appreciate your time and you're
insight into this. Is there anywhere where people can find
you online if they were to.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Follow on Yeah, they can follow me on my tutor
and Facebook and.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
It's my tutor is a K two okay, and my
Facebook is like my name. If you type my it
will appear. So yeah, yeah, looking forward to seeing you
in the near future. Yeah. Thanks, thank you, thank you
for having me.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
It could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
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You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated
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All the media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello everyone, welcome to the podcast today. We have a
very interesting issue. You're very lucky to be joined by Onomo,
who we've heard from before, who is a minister who
is hindering in the National Unity Government of Burma or Myanmar,
both of those words are okay, And we're talking about
the situation of Rhinga people and the development sort of
(00:26):
happened in Rakaine State since I guess since the beginning
of Operation ten twenty seven. So welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Thank you so much day, thanks for having me and
it's good to be back with you to this show.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you. Yeah, no, it's wonderful to have you back
and we're very fortunate. So I wonder if we could
start by summarizing for listeners the things sort have happened
in the last few months in Rakaine State, because there
have been some massive changes since maybe listeners were last
aware of what was happening there.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Yeah, sure, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Since the coup, there were on and off fights between
the Arcana Army and there and the Malasia Hunters process
in Rakaina State. However, in the interest of the of
the of the humanitary and neat, both parties came to
enter to a ceasefire agreement.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
In between. However, the fight.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Against the military junta in me and Mark started in
different part of Me and Mark continued to be accelerating
and most recently the ten twenty seven and followed by
others operations in in Crimey estate has has been has
been quite rapidly spreading across the country and that's definitely
(01:48):
went through ra kinda state where resumed to target the
the the junta in its political objective to be to
be reaching.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
That's the situations we are today that the Arkan Army
has been in very good positions to be dismantling the
Hunter's forces in our kind of state. And so far
since Operation twenty seven ten twenty seven Salad, more than
half of the township districts in our kinda state has
(02:20):
been ceased by the Arkhan Army, including some of those
were majority of Runa lifts. And it's continued to be
under in a very literating situations.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, at the end, they've they've even sunk Hunter ships
or captured them in some cases. I think it's been
a bit of a that there was a video that
was quite like maybe not viruls around word certainly I
saw a lot but of border guard forces right, which
are like a militia's allied to the hunter, like fleeing
into Bangladesh.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
This is another the border guard process are from mostly
from militaries, their train militaries, their uniforms are changed into
border guard force due to different agreement with that exists
between two states in allocating. It's true along the border
side and the border guard forces are one of the
(03:19):
most primary forces that's deported through Highen and run the
Rohingia's forces in twenty seven and make them flee. So
six years later as the same vdps who committed to
the crimes against the Rhinga atrocities that include crimes against
humanity and war crimes had to flee to Bangladesh in
(03:41):
a quite similar way to refuge.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
And so it's sort of.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Karma or whatever you put it in a way and
the perceptions and reality of course when it's it's kind
of confrontations between the two groups are army and the military.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Countless sources.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
The reality that has been defined by most of ours,
nimianmar and across that. We used to believe that the
Burmese military is a strong vote by human resource and equipment,
and then in reality they are very weak and our
army has proved by dismantling a various battalion in country
battalion and even capturing alive like second ice commanding officer
(04:26):
in the whole of the kind of state. And also
many senior level officer has been has been killed over this.
That so the reality perception has been deeper on the
NMR military when we look it from from external perspective.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, and I think just in case listeners aren't familiar,
it can be very confusing if you don't read about
this stuff all the time. It's sort of the alphabet
soup of organizations, and especially with reference to Rahinga and
Rakind State, because we have of Hinga armed groups or
armed groups which drove mostly from Ahinga people that don't
(05:06):
necessarily represent them all. And then we have the AA. Son,
can you explain the AA's relationship to Rakind State and
then how they relate to Ahinga people.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
A has been.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Established in two thousand and nine with aims to be
having confederations and not less than war, which is another
special regimes and more with a special autonomy, and it
has been led by some young people and it has
been quite a leadership as well within their kind political stuctrum,
(05:46):
and he has been growing very op italy and the
acceptance of the of the people, particularly kind people has
been very high. Therefore the resource allocations that he got
from human resource to other resources to be rapidly coping
with that group growth has been high, and that put
them in a position is to be standing in front
(06:08):
of a Hunta in a very stronger positions and defeat
them and very rapidly. And of course the Arkhan Army
which would refer here a SAE, is not as inclusive
as ra kind Ra kind of state is very diverse
and it has got a multiple ethnic group. The largest
ethnic group is Rakin religiously with these people and to
(06:32):
which the majority of army's leadership derived from there. And
the second largest majority, which are the Rwinga and Toroina,
are still the second largest majority in the rack kind
of states. Despite a milion being pushed off to Bangladesh
in twenty seventeen and several hundred thousand spreaded across the
region and the inclusivity in an Arcan army is still
(06:58):
still not there.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
When when we talk about Rhingia that's mean that there
might be some small small number of Rhingia's in different
battalions of Arkan Army and the administrative units that they're
building at a very crossroot level.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
However, the the the Ringien.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Need to be included both by functions and in order
to have to describe that relationship and inclusively between the
Rhenia people and the Arkan Army.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, and it's that Arakan. Is that Rakhan is the
name of the area before it was called Rakay state?
Is that right?
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Correct?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
It's even it's before Burma became Burma. Arkhan I was
a king kingdom and it used to have its own
palace and it's diversity, it's high page and it's natural resources.
And then of course the Burmese colonizations happened to the
Burma and Uh and later on Urkan has been named
(07:55):
as rakinda state.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, so it describes a geographical rather than ethnic identity, right,
which is distinct from some of the other revolutionary organizations
like Karrank or any or what have you.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I think there are similarities and as well as there
are differences when when when you put them together and
and from a diversity perspective, of a kind of state.
It's very diverse compared to other ethnic groups. And and
also it's politically very complex. Uh so the the, the the,
but over their overall similarities as well, like like you know,
(08:30):
all are fighting to defeat the hunter to Yea to
end the dictatorship in Melmar. But the the the, the
primary thing here is the self interminations and self autonomy,
like people want to decide to determine what is their
present and official look like, how they want to treat
with their past.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
That's the the the the the aspect. But of course
the the like.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
To my to the best of my knowledge, these ethnic
resistance organizations, both political and and and the armed groups
have never claimed that they want to separate from Yanmar'. Yes,
it's coming together in a different way. The holding together
would be in a different way.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, And even when they speak to Bama people who
are like the majority ethnicity and the ethnicity from which
the junta's leadership had rule, and like they tell me,
they're committed to a federal and like a federal Mianma
with autonomy for these different regions and groups. And that's
something that has held that coalition together.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Right, Yeah, approximately more than fifty million populations in.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Majority are Aburmese Buddhists.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
And they have been having this Buddhist supremacy and like
Bama's supremacy over ethnic and religious minorities across the country.
And of course Katchinker and others and went to desromine
their picture by them and have the equality both their
(10:02):
functions and number. And that's where we're having these seventy
years long civil war. You know, that's came to collective
revolutions in twenty twenty one, and history really speaking, people
have been fighting in Enmark for equality, justice and to
(10:22):
end the cycle of impunity for the last seventeen plus years.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Great. I think that's a great place to take our
first advertising break. All right, and we're back. I think
you did an excellent job of explaining the history the
Goddess here, and people will be very familiar with the
(10:48):
trustees committed by the Burmese military and its proxies against
Sirrhinga people, I hope. But one thing that's been happening
recently which are particularly appalling is the forced recruitment of
Behingar Peopleinga people buy that same military, right, can you
explain what's been going on.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So the conscriptions law has been reactivated. It has been
there large by the previous military catis, but it has
not been active. And so since the Hunter has been
falling apart and collapsing, not only were kind of state
(11:29):
across the country there wherever they fight, they lose, and
they are battalions by battalion that's UH, that's running away
the to Thailand, running away to India, running away to
Bangladesh and and putting white black. And there are several casualties.
And apparently the Hunter became the largest military equipment supplier
(11:52):
to the to the revolutionary force.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Where we did not get we did.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Not get international support when when young people actually smadels
and writers point decided to go to the forest to
do to fight against this center, and there was little
to no international support.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
And we have been struggling to to to equip ourselves
to fight this center.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And and of course the the resilience and the courage
that young people had and the tactical and strategy capacity
that the ethnic resistance organization had in combined became a factor.
UH to have an a strategic sourcing of the military
equipment and Hunter like battalion by battalion. You don't need
(12:41):
to buy the weapons and military tang and things like that.
You you go and fight one battalion and they run
away or they die, and then you take over the
That's how the the whole old thing started in in
In Then when they are losing the they reactivated these
(13:01):
conscriptions law and started to in the interest of making
mandustry everyone to be serving by force in the in
the military by chance. And of course when it's come
to a kind of state or a kind of state,
the six hundred thousand Ringa and t one hundred and
fifty to sixty of them has been in concentration camp,
(13:23):
consolidated in one place with movement restrictions, no access to education,
healthcare and things like that, where they have been living
more than a decade in some of those camp and
villages where those people who are not in the camp
as well has been imposed by additional movement restrictions. So
(13:44):
you don't need to really go and mobilize people to
be forcefully recruiting. And at the beginning the junta went
to them and to give them sort of show them
incentive of like you will become the citizens and will
give that and we'll give.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
That and you need to fight against the.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
The army and of course the grassroot. The leader community
leader responded in a way that they need to respond
to reject the requests from from the from the military.
Hometoend and Maliti started to of course imposed by using
the force. And as I mentioned earlier, they will need
(14:21):
to like when you have consolidated people that amount of
young people doing nothing and you just go and catch
them and put them on a truck, and some of
them don't know where they are going because their whole
life has been in this camp. Like when you're six
years old and you are now eighteen and it's mandustry
for you to be serving in the military, and you
don't know what is happening in our side of your camp.
Because so that's how really the the and then we
(14:46):
got these news and of course we have been talking
different community leaders and the community has been approaching to
us as a government and we make there are several
media coverage as well. Then the military started to see
these uh, these Bengalis are not not referring to the Hinga,
are not the citizens of Therefore there is no way
(15:08):
that we we we make them served in the in
the military.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
So those are fakings that.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
So they use these States propaganda TV channel and the
state newspaper which is now under control of SUCK to
deny that. And on seventh October, seventh sorry, seven March,
the the those who they have kind of stripted, uh
more than five hundred has been brought into into the
(15:35):
commanding office of the Hunter to be training in full uniform.
Some of them those inside there has got managed to
get internet internet access and then said to me the
video footage what is happening on the inside there, So
I I posted that on my Twitter and and then
it's it's spread it from there and then we we
(15:58):
call them like their denial and it's the lives that
they have been putting by denying that when Ronio we're
not conscripted, ah was wrong. And then a few days
later they have been sent to the front line to
fight against a And then there are hundreds of those
ruhingas who were who died.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
In this front line while and the Hunter.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Cake came back a few days later talking to their
family saying that okape hundred plus people.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Has died and we don't know who is who.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
And when we bring your dad, buddy, you will will
be able to be identified.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
And the first dead body that they brought.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
And handed over to the clam the and the community
leader with one million jets which is three hundred and
fifty dollars plus one hundred kg of rice as an
incentive for the life that they have given in the fighting.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
So that's the situations, and we can of course continue.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, that's very bleak, isn't it. So this and we've
seen just today actually people have been online today there
was a protest in Rapine State somewhere for a hindred
people rejecting the our economy. Can can you explain like
that might not be what it seems on the face
of it, right? Can can you explain what might be
(17:17):
happening there?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
The situations in ra kind of state has been very
much complex because there are there are hidden factors being
created are e officially created by the hunter. For so
long from the two thousand and twenty twelve twenty seventeen,
between these different communities, there has been always interdependency and
social equation to somewhat level. But HUNDA always used the
(17:43):
divide and rule methodology to bring the conflict between these
community and hate each other and then they can carry
out what they need to do as a powerholder.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
And of course when.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
The arconomy is getting greater control over the over kind
of state and the hunter is losing, UH, the the
the Melochiy hunt and it used all tactics that they have,
including the the the UH, the intercommunal tensions and and
so they they are ruhinga few Ringia maybe who has
(18:21):
businesses with these UH, this hunter are being used as
a proxy to push pressure of pressure on the Ruhingia
and to organize. And so that's why the protest started
a few years ago. UH in one of the townships
in the China state, we're eighty to ninety percent are
(18:42):
rowinga and claiming that we don't want war and we
don't want EE. And of course this can be happening
artificially organically, and it's so artificial, and anyone who looks
into this video footage, I can see that the Ruhingia
never had in their life, like those who are protesting
never know what is means, freedom of expression means. And suddenly,
(19:05):
in one random morning, one hundred hundred of Ruwinga, including minors, children,
coming on the streets and protesting is is not something normal.
It can happen without without.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
The uh uh.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
And of course, majority of the of the Rhingia are
peace loving people and they want Burma to be an
inclusive federal democracy and they want.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
To be part of it, and we are.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
That's why I myself as a Ruhinga taking a leading
rule in in the government, as the first Ruhinga holding
back ministrial positions in the cabinet since.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Nineteen sixty two.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
And and and of course the the the Ruhingo equally
want the to end the dictatorship once and for all
because that very junta has been committing trustities, crimes, including
crimes against humanity and to genocides to Uringa. This is
the very same electry who deported a million ringer killed
(20:03):
more than twenty four thousands of people in burning children's
life in twenty seventeen. So in which way that ring
collectively will come and ascend with this shuna with the
whole country. So this is not this is really not
something organic, and this is artificial. This is too big
(20:23):
and this is so like hunter made to fit into
be fitting into their political propaganda.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, and I think one has to when we was
looking at things in MEMR be aware that the Hunter
just doesn't care about lying. It's something they've done for
a long time. I apparently can't download iHeart podcasts in
Memo now, Like someone tried to download our podcast there
and so they had to use a VPN. But yeah,
they manipulate the media environment heavily, like you can read
(20:50):
Hunt newspapers and some of its comically false. But one
thing I did want to talk about is like when
I talk to young PDS fighters, and I've spoken to
dozens of them now, people who are Koreni, people who
are Korene, people who are Bama, people who are Kitchin,
they a lot of them say to me that, like
(21:11):
what happened in twenty seventeen was atrocious and at the
time they didn't realize because of this manipulated media environment,
they didn't realize that the way the Rahinda were being
treated was so appalling, and that now they're very upset
about what happened. And like for them, I guess the
litmus test for like a future for Burma is one
(21:33):
that can include Rahinja people and so like with that
in mind, I guess we've seen this kind of changing
of language right where Previously they were referred to as
Bangladeshi and then now they're referred to as Muslim or
Hinga people. I guess can you just explain, like what
is the n UGPDF kind of like how how do
(21:59):
we ensure in dependence and safety for a hanger people
in Myanmar in a federal democratic future without a dictatorship.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
We're in a context of identity politics where the identity
is so much associated with very rights, whether it's political, social,
and economical right that you deserve and what you need
to give back as an active obliged citizens, and obligations
to the country that you belong. Therefore, the identity the
(22:30):
Rhinga is a primary thing for Ruhinga to be enjoying
equal freedom and to be able to contribute equally as
others in the nation building process. And of course before
twenty seventeen, even before that, there has been a lot
of misinformation, disinformations, propaganda are widespread state sponsored against the
(22:53):
Ruhinga to that could be a misleading and incitement of violence.
And and and the trum Bengali is a trum that's
refer that you're coming from Bangladesh.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Illegally and you're illegally as you settling. That's how the
terms came direct from.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Its false it's a false accusation.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
It's false accusations.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
And the the the the Ruhingia people has existed in
the kind of states side by side with your kind people,
even Burma became Burma and their historical facts that there
are so many undeniable things that you could you could
look into and into into various historical facts, and so
(23:41):
the the in between. Of course, the Rhingia the trum
become illegal and the military denied it, rejected it, and
then they started to use the Troum Bengali and the
most of the Burmese people fall into that trap. And
even somewhere either silent thing in this horrific genocideal attack
in twenty seven in or somewhere taking sight of a
(24:03):
military at that time that it's okay to kill and
it's okay to and of course these are being being
propelled by all misinformations and disinformation that our earlier mentioned and.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
Twenty one attempted could happened.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
And that's where a new perspective is being offered to
the people of me and Mar because the same military
that has been carrying out atrocities clans against the Rhingia
and other minorities came to larger Ma people doing the
same thing.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
So what has been told to us by.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
The Ruhinga and the religious and ethnic minority in Enmar
for the decade came to be true. And that's how
the acceptance of the Ruhinga has started to grow. Of course,
it's not to the level that we would be satisfied
with yet. It's a process and there is so much
to unlearn because one provoking factor like attempted to should
(25:02):
like wouldn't fix a problem that has been there for
for decades.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
And a National Unity.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Government declared that we accept the chum Ruhinga, and there
has been a policy stating very clearly in twenty twenty
one June, and that policy to be implemented of course
when the situation is conducive and there are significant challenges
with the territorial control and things like that when it's come.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
But again, the momentum that.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
I mentioned we got as a result of extreme evolutions
need to be maintained in the higher scale. That's not
only the Ruhinga and anything that's wrong, that's primarily that's
principle and value are strong. I need to be able
to see it wrong, regardless of whoever it is, and
regardless of race and religion. If we are talking about
(25:55):
federal inclusive democracy, we cannot preach our people or international
community saying that support us or asking for support or
be a part of this movement where we see a
sepri floud fishers and inclusive federal democracy. We're actual values
that we are not practicing by ourselves. So before we preach,
(26:15):
we need to we need to act upon those principles
by ourselves. And overall, I would say, the all the
loss that we had, including life and livelihood, that hundred
and hundred of people, thousands of people has been killed, jailed,
and hundreds of people villagers, township has been destroyed, the
(26:36):
good thing that we got is the the these consciousness
on the morality.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
And if we're able to accelerate that consciousness at the
greatest scale, that's.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Where we will.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Be able to maintain the values and principle of the
inclusive federal democracy.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
That will be the pillar to maintain this as a process.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, I think so it's really fast neating to talk
to young people. I was talking to some mandal a
PDF people not so long ago, and they were like,
oh yeah, well, when we left, we were told that
like the Tang would hate us because we're Burmese and
they would fight us. And then they're like, oh, they're
really nice, Like this is a guy right next to me,
and they're like because they're joined up together. Now the
(27:18):
PDFs and and the eros are largely fighting side by
side against is there like the PDF forces present in
rakind state as well.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
No, there is Arkan Army particularly which is an allies
with the with the we have been there have been
multiple intric like you know, there are we have Alliance
Relations Committee that we deal with all the alliance as
National Unity Government and of course they have been playing
(27:49):
in an important role in defeating the content. And there
is no PDF in the Kinda state.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Okay, yeah, so it's a little different there. Other often
the PDF and the eras are very similar in fight
sorr by side.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Also, our army is not tracked alone in the kind
Of state.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
They're almost also in in Sharna State and they're yes
fighting with not only in the China state. So like
when we talk about like even though the physical epidios
are not there, it doesn't mean that there is no
military connect to military connections between the ethnic organizations that
(28:26):
exists across the country.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, and like we've seen that a lot since October,
and like since the Three brother Alliance started their campaign.
That moves hunter forces to one place, and that allows
other people like the Kareni to take advantage of the
way those forces have moved and they've liberated huge parts
of their territory. So okay, it's all joined, I guess.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
The tricky part that they have used in the past
is like hidden cut, is that they will do sea
fight in one part of the country and they will
allocate all of their resources in another part of the country,
and where they will defeat or they will at least
like come to bargaining positions.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Let's not quite anymore.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
And and you stay where you are and don't don't
try to like you know, and and it's Funta who
violate again all all these agreements that usually sell. And
this time it's so coordinated across the country that the
Junta cannot be able to position themselves or estrategize themselves
(29:30):
or foot then themselves in the tactical positions. Their old
tactic did not work in the modern coordinations of the
PDF and Ethnic Resistance Organization. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
No, They've tried multiple times to have regular individuals fires
and it hasn't worked. So I wanted to ask just
to finish up. People I think who listen to this
will be very familiar the situation in Miyama, and they
(30:01):
want to help, and they see that the international community
is doing nothing, and I think a lot of people
are rightly very upset about that. So what can people
do to help and especially to advocate for Rhinga people.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Particularly when it's come to the Rhindia people.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Ringa people crisis is so much interconnected with Burmese democratization process.
Ruhindia will not be able to have a life that dignified, say,
and in their place of origin unless the Burma is
solely in the hand of a civilian government. So the
democratization process that whole ver is attempting to make need
(30:41):
to be supported by international community.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
As I mentioned.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Earlier, so far we got little to no international support.
And on the Ruhinga crisis as well. There's one million
people in Bangladesh where their Russians are cuts to eight
dollars per month per person and which is a couple
of in the United States and and UH, and there
(31:04):
is a greater danger of hunger, restorvations and malnitary nutrition
and UH and so many other social economic problems that
would have an impact on the regional security stability and
things like that if the shortfall remains UH funding short
call remains for for for for for for the for
(31:25):
the nia that's on the humanustrian and and of course
Rhingia need to be politically organized in order to be
to be fitting into the changing political dynamics of mr.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
Uringia has been oppressed.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
They were not able to form study organizations, they were
not able to be educating themselves. So all these societial
leadership aspect need to be supported, including having a company
like having an organized political platform for for Ringa which
will be able to represent Shuringa in the larger polity table,
(32:02):
ensuring their voices are hard and they able to equally
take the rights that they deserve.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
And more importantly equal equally.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Able to contribute to a decision that will have an
impact on their life. And the United States has determined
the crimes against Ruhinga as genocide two years before. And
of course the genocide discrimination does not simply is an announcement.
(32:32):
It's come with the moral and legal responsibility. So we
do want to require the United States and it's people
to formally extent on the moral and legal obligations that
it has in ensuring that the Ruhinga are able to
live equally peacefully and more importantly, the justice that they
deserve on the on the physical and mental damage that
(32:54):
happened as part of the genocide. And it was picked
in twenty seventeen, it's continued to be happening today and
even today one hundred and fifty people were arriving in Archi, Indonesia,
where the Indonesian people who were showing greater humanity in
opening their arms and parts to be accepting Ruhinga, are
denying the Rhinga. So for the Ruhinga, there is little
(33:16):
to no space to be accommodated, both in regional and
international and local setting, and it is very important that
we are able to tackle and navigate these issues together
with the international community in an innovative, effective, efficient and
sustainable way for the sake of humanity. And there are
(33:39):
competing priorities across the world, but the international community is
we are so aware that international community is capable of
doing more than one thing at a time.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
It doesn't have to be either.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
All, No, it can be both, and it should be right.
Like obviously people are very concerned with the plight of
Palestinian people, rightly so at the moment. But yes, we
should remember that as a Muslim people have been subject
to genocide for the last needed for seven years, I suppose,
and it's ongoing, and they deserve our support and solidarity
as well. Yeah, I hope, yeah, yeah, I mean it
(34:13):
does seem like, I guess a little more hopeful than
it was even a couple of years ago that there
will be a democratic.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Mean, and.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Yeah, the journey is.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Is almost think and what we need is greater international support.
Like support doesn't mean just you know, releasing the statement,
meaningful comprehensive support that we are able to defeat this
Manta once and for all, for the sake of people
of me and Mark fifty plus million people giving the
(34:50):
price at the highest possible price in their life that
include again the lives and livelihood. An international community was
not doing more than condemnations for releasing a statement of
concern over the last three years, so it's time to
act and an international community again has to answer this
question to next generations when there's a questions on the
(35:14):
morality we're the international community when the genocide comes against
community and war came has been happening two million anything
some people in the eyes of international community.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, no, I hope they do. And it's incredible the
progress that has been made without that support. And I
think it's just incredible to me that even I remember
in twenty twenty one talking to people who were just
beginning their fight, and to see how far they've come
is outstanding. Yeah, and yeah, people should be very proud
(35:48):
of that. But it doesn't mean that they don't need
more support.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
They do.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Doesn't mean that they don't need surface to our missiles.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
They do. Like, yeah, that it's the.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Thing that we should be doing. Thank you so much
for joining us. We really appreciate your time and you're
insight into this. Is there anywhere where people can find
you online if they were to.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Follow on Yeah, they can follow me on my tutor
and Facebook and.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
It's my tutor is a K two okay, and my
Facebook is like my name. If you type my it
will appear. So yeah, yeah, looking forward to seeing you
in the near future. Yeah. Thanks, thank you, thank you
for having me.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
It could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the
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You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated
monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
It Could Happen Here News
Host
Robert Evans
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