February 5, 2019 • 30 mins
A close encounter with the Zodiac sends investigators to Riverside, California.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely
those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast,
and do not necessarily represent those of iHeartMedia, how Stuff Works,
or its employees. In earlier episodes of Monster, we've mentioned
all the witnesses that might be able to identify the
Zodiac killer, Michael Majeaux, the young man who survived the
(00:23):
attack at Blue Rock Springs, Brian Hartnell, the survivor of
the knife attack at Lake Barriessa, and SFPD officer Don
Fouk that encountered the Zodiac fleeing the Paulstein murder scene.
A combination of the physical descriptions from these brief encounters
were used to create the infamous police sketch you've probably
seen floating around the internet. But in nineteen seventy, there
(00:46):
was another possible witness that had the best chance yet
of identifying the Zodiac Kathleen Johns.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
In March of nineteen seventy, a young woman claimed that
she had been driving along a freeway and a vehicle
pulled up alongside her, and the man inside gestured towards
her vehicle as if there was something wrong.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Was there any any sensation to your vehicle that there
was something wrong with your vehicle while you're driving.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
You know, it was an old Wrangley car. Anything could
have been wrong. The back of lights would have been out,
anything could have been wrong with it.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
I wouldn't it was running fire.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So she pulled over, and according to the story, the
man pulled over and said, hey, your tires loose. I'll
tighten it for you.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
So he went back and got a tire iron, came back,
went to the back, settled around, stopped again at the
window and said.
Speaker 6 (01:39):
It's okay.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
You know her, it should be okay.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
What he did was actually loosen the tire and.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
I'll go too far on the year across the street,
not even.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
And the tire fell off.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
That gave him a perfect opportunity to pretend to be
the good Samaritan and offer her a ride.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
A man in a mask robbed, tied, and stabbed them,
leaving them for dead.
Speaker 7 (02:08):
Subjects stated, I want to report a murder, no a
double murder.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
I did it.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
A man who wore a medieval style executioner's hood, carried
a knife and gun and intended to use them.
Speaker 8 (02:23):
They haven't arrested me because they can't prove a thing.
I'm not the damn Zodiac?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Who is the Zodiac and where is he from?
Speaker 9 (02:31):
iHeartRadio, Houstuff Works and Tenderfoot TV. This is Monster the
Zodiac Killer. In this episode of Monster, we're going to
hit rewind and talk about some things you've likely never
heard before. Until the early nineteen seventies, everyone believed the
(02:52):
first Zodiac killing was in nineteen sixty eight, the murder
of Betty Lou Jensen and David Faraday in Benetia. But
after a while, investigators realized that the Zodiac's trail might
go back a few more years. Today, as the Zodiac
case passes the fifty year anniversary without any arrests, without
any answers, we're taking the opportunity to examine a few
(03:15):
earlier unsolved cases, including the case of Kathleen John's.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
On March twenty second, nineteen seventy, Kathleen Johns and her
infant daughter Jennifer had a terrifying experience on a dark
and desolate highway. After more than two decades of silence,
Kathleen finally spoke of this incident.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
I had more sense than to stop on this dark road.
You know, I wanted to get where there was one
night when I could hope they hurt. But when I
got onto the freeway where I could see a gap
the enemy, I stopped on the sidelok.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Two men interviewed Kathleen at a diner in nineteen ninety eight.
We've come into possession of a rare copy of this interview.
Kathleen John's account of that evening is one of the
many unsolved cases that some believe to be the work
of the Zodiac.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Kathleen Johns was pregnant at the time, and she also
had her infant daughter with her. That's something that the
person may not have known when he was driving alongside
that car and trying to get her to pull over,
and he may not have realized that until the last moment,
when he had already offered her a ride and she
gets out of the car with her stomach and her baby.
(04:24):
It's possible that at that moment the person reconsidered what
they were doing and may have decided, well, I was
intending to kill this person, but now I know she's
pregnant and she's got a baby with her, I'm not
sure I really want to go through with it.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
Okay, let me ask you this why did you stop
your car?
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Well, I wanted to see what when they was wrong,
but you know, I wanted to get word of it
was more night in lahaw I could see a gas station.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
We don't know for sure what happened, but we do
know that Kathleen John's got in the car with that
individual and that he appeared to be driving aimlessly away
from gas station. He promised to take her to and
at a certain point she became suspicious.
Speaker 7 (05:06):
Now you know he said to you that he was
going to kill you? Did he utter that or infer
that again?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Many times? In this monotone, no feeling, no looking at me,
driving on.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
In her earlier statements, it indicated that he did not
threaten her, but later on she claimed that he said
that he was going to kill her and throw the
baby out the window.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Did he change the wording or was it always you
know you're gonna die. You know I'm going to kill
you and throw that baby out?
Speaker 3 (05:35):
How many times did he ask you to throw Jennifer off?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Quite a few? I mean you don't have a dozen.
We were out there, seemed to go for a long time.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Kathleen became very concerned. She asked him at a certain point,
do you always go around helping people like this? And
she said that he replied by saying, when I'm through
with him, they don't need help, or something to that effect.
This scared her enough that after I guess about two hours,
she decided that the next time he slowed down that
(06:06):
she was going to jump out. So she seized the
first opportunity that came along. She grabbed your child, jumped out,
ran away.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
When I bailed, he got out to you like car
like Kemon hadn't that vineyards everywhere, because he was yelling.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
Come back here.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
According to various reports, he either screamed at her from
the car or got out of the car and tried
to find her, But then another vehicle pulled up and
he apparently got spooked and drove away. She got into
the car with that individual, and that person took her
to the nearby police department, where she was describing what happened.
(06:44):
And while she was in the course of giving her
story to police, she saw a composite sketch of the
Zodiac killer and said, that's the guy who did this.
Shortly after that, which I believe four months later, another
Zodiac let her arrived.
Speaker 10 (07:02):
This is the Zodiac speaking. I am rather unhappy because
you people will not wear some Zodiac buttons. So I
now have a little list, starting with a woman and
her baby that I gave a rather interesting ride for
a couple hours one evening a few months back that
ended in my burning her car where I found them
signed Zodiac.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Kathleen John's station wagon was burned. We don't know whether
or not the killer did that. We don't know whether
or not the person who abducted her was actually the Zodiac.
And maybe the Zodiac was just taking credit for it
because that's what the media was saying. It's possible that
the Zodiac liked to create confusion and thought he would
benefit from that. So if he did abduct Kathleen John's
(07:48):
and he took the credit for it, then he was
just acknowledging his involvement as already reported by the media.
If he wasn't involved and he decided to take credit
for it because people were already accusing him of that,
that tells you something about him too, that he thought, well,
this just adds to my image. It makes me look
(08:08):
all the more scary. And at the same time, if
it wasn't him, what happens. When Kathleen Johns identifies the
person or describes that person, it's not him, right, So
that just creates more confusion. If the Zodiac was not
responsible for that crime, he certainly enjoyed exploiting it because
it added and it patted his resume. So in the end,
(08:32):
Kathleen Johns is listed as a suspected Zodiac victim. But
since she's also passed away and there was no solid evidence,
I don't think we'll ever be able to answer that question.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Her interview was recorded in nineteen ninety eight, nearly twenty
eight years after her encounter. By this time, Kathleen's name
had changed to Smith.
Speaker 7 (09:00):
On January one, nineteen ninety eight, meeting with Kathy Smith,
Howard Davis is also here present.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
I hope, Kathy, that this comes out with all.
Speaker 8 (09:09):
Of the background noise and everything.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
But I'm going to ask.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
You to kind of speak up a little bit, if
you would.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Even after so much time had passed, Kathleen still remembered
the incident vividly.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Did you have any sense at all that views behind you?
Speaker 4 (09:27):
There was the car behind me and.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
Kept watching his light. I had always hoped to be
able to talk to Kathleen and we were fortune to
talk from before she passed away.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
This is Howard Davis, one of the men who interviewed Kathleen.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
He had secured an interview with Kathleen at a local Dennis.
When we interviewed Kathleen for a while and then John,
a reporter went out for battery. We really just got
the basics from her. We just went through the interview.
He really didn't get much, but we did get some
(10:04):
information that no one had heard about before. I don't
think there were any other interviews after that.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Howard Davis wholeheartedly believes that Kathleen encountered the Zodiac that day.
Kathleen's description of her abductor closely resembled other eyewitness descriptions
of the Zodiac.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
He was wearing the bell bottom pants, the naval appearance,
military dress shoes, military dress shoes. Footprints were found at
the base scene where her car was That a part
she was a Zodiac victim. She's the only one to
escape the Zodiac, not only with her life but unharmed,
(10:43):
even right next to the Zodiac.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
The Kathleen John's abduction does not fit the Zodiac's previously
established pattern, but also at the same time, he also
deviated from his pattern, going from couples to a cab driver.
Then he said that he was no longer going to
announce his murders and they were going to look like
fake accidents and routine robberies and killings of anger. So
maybe he had some plan for what he wanted to do,
(11:24):
but it did involve a drastic change in his mo
Maybe he was going to murder her and make it
look like an accident. Maybe he was going to come
back and wreck her car or do something. I don't know,
but there's some people who believe that if he was
responsible for that crime, that he burned the car to
cover up evidence, because he may have touched the car
(11:46):
when he was loosening the lugnuts on the wheel. There's
also the possibility that he had intended to kill John's
and then decided not to go through with it because
she was pregnant and had a kid, and then was
frustrated and needed to do something, so he drove back
to where the car was and set fire to it.
It also possibly had nothing to do with it, and
(12:07):
Kathleen Johns was wrong in her identification. But then you
come to the fact that During that same period of time,
there was also speculation that the Zodiac may have been
involved in another murder in nineteen sixty six at Riverside
City College. After the Zodiac murders were being reported in
the media, investigators in Riverside were watching and saying, this
(12:30):
looks kind of familiar and maybe these crimes are connected.
So they contacted the Zodiac investigators and reported their suspicions,
and after investigators looked at this, they thought it was
very possible that the Zodiac had committed the crime in Riverside.
You had a young woman who was apparently visiting the
(12:51):
college library, and while she was inside, someone disabled her car,
and when she came out and her car was start
this person allegedly offered her a ride, and then when
she went with him, he took her off into a
darkened area and stabbed her to death. So if the
(13:12):
Zodiac was responsible for the murdered Riverside, then that does
provide some indication that he may have been responsible for
the Johns event, because there's a similarity of selecting a
single woman, disabling her car and such. Then later on
San Francisco Chronicle reporter Paul Avery learned of this possible
(13:32):
connection and reported it in the media in what was
called the Riverside Connection.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Was the Riverside killing of Sherry Joe Bates somehow connected
to the midnight abduction of Kathleen John's and were both
of these crimes three and a half years apart committed
by the Zodiac. We learned there was a possibility of
finding some unprocessed film footage of Paul Avery just after
he made the Riverside connection. There was only one place
(14:01):
to go in search of a rare piece of film
like that, the Bay Area Television Archive in San Francisco.
Speaker 8 (14:12):
My name is Alex Cherrian. I'm the film archivist at
San Francisco State University's John Paul Nnard Library. The Bay
Area Television Archive is in our Department of Special Collections.
This is where we preserve and remaster local news film,
documentary broadcast video tape from the nineteen fifties through to
about two thousand. Before we work on it, it's just
(14:35):
old film and tape. By the time we finished with it.
What you're looking at is a screener which is viewable
online for free. I enjoy local, specific regional history a lot.
I like being able to relate to it, to look
at a building and know what happened there fifty years ago.
I also like being on the cutting edge of finding
(14:56):
stuff and making it available. If someone comes up with
some kind of kookie idea which is patently ridiculous, I
don't care. It needs to be explored in order to
rule it out. And making all of our stuff available online,
I enjoyed doing that. I get an excitement from doing it.
It could be the Zodiac, it could be a chess tournament,
it could be something to do with Jerry Brown, who
(15:18):
features in our collections way back to the early seventies.
I don't mind. You either enjoy that or you don't,
and I love it. So this is the raw news film.
This is how it was put into cans before it
came to us in the early nineteen eighties. So what
(15:39):
you're looking at there is a reel of sixteen milimeter
film from the early nineteen seventies. It doesn't even have
a plastic core on it, which means you can't even
project it. This is just coming raw from the lab.
I guarantee you no one's touched that for over forty years.
It may have been covered in a similar fashion by
(15:59):
a different tea v station. But the sound of the
reporter or the eyewitness or the detective talking about a
zodiac in nineteen seventy two, no one's ever heard that,
and it will be decent quality because no one's been
messing around with it.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
What things in this evidence you've got from the Riverside
police actually lead you to believe that there could be
or is some connection.
Speaker 6 (16:26):
Oh there's police lineage, the motors OPERANDU of the killer,
the Cherry bas space and river Side and zodioacil. Are
there many eagle media wanting to get recognition for the
killer writing to a new State the fact that in
(16:48):
no cases, including the Sharrybase, has there ever been sexual molestation.
Usually in a killing of a coat, it's usually a
sex herely just for the shares Ler phone, I received
the letter individual in southern California pointing outre similarity was
actually it was an anonymous letter, and I felt that
(17:12):
there might be something for it, so I contacted the
Riverside Police. Were very cooperative to computer and gave me
information on the phone and then sent me some information
zerox copies of thirsty documents. This is the first one
of the first two letters that was received by the
newspaper in Riverside and by the police department. The inside
(17:35):
was a typewritten confession, and this is known to be
from the murder sary base because of details in the
unsigned profession. This was received exactly one month of the
day after she was killed.
Speaker 9 (17:48):
You're about to hear the letter that Paul Avery just described.
This letter contains graphic details. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 10 (17:58):
Miss Bates was stupid. She went to the slaughter like
a lamb. She did not put up a struggle, but
I did. It was a ball. I first pulled the
middle wire from the distributor. Then I waited for in
the library and followed her out. After two minutes, the
battery must have been about dead by then. I then
offered to help. She was then very willing to talk
(18:21):
to me. I told her that my car was down
the street and I would give her a lift home.
When we were away from the library walking, I said
it was about time. She asked me about time. For
what I said, it was about time for her to die.
I grabbed her around the neck with my hand over
her mouth and my other hand with a small knife
(18:42):
at her throat. She went very willingly. Her breast felt
very warm and firm under my hands, but only one
thing was on my mind, making her pay for the
brush offs that she had given me during the years prior.
She died hard. She squirmed and shook as I choked her,
and her lips twitched. She let out a scream once,
(19:05):
and I kicked her head to shut her up. I
plunged the knife into her and it broke. I didn't
finish the job by cutting her throat. I'm not sick,
I am insane, but that will not stop the game.
This letter should be published for all to read it.
It just might save that girl in the alley, but
(19:26):
that's up to you. It will be on your conscious,
not mine. Yes, I did make that call to you also,
it was just a warning, beware, I am stalking your
girls now.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Now, some of that information appears to have been available
in the public media at the time, but it's still
possible that it was the actual killer who wrote it,
or someone who was trying to misdirect the investigation. I'm
sure that if things did go down the way that
it's described in that letter, she thought that man was
going to help her, and just like a lake Barry Essa,
(20:08):
that person took advantage of her and forced her to
participate in her own murder, and in the letter, he
said she went to the slaughter like a lamb.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
So the police potentially had a Zodiac letter as early
as nineteen sixty six, just one month after the Bates murder.
At the time, police thought the note was written by
the actual killer because the information included in the letter
was highly detailed, specifically the manner in which the attacker
disabled the victim's car. I can't help but wonder why
(20:38):
didn't the Sherry Joe Bates case get more attention prior
to the nineteen sixty eight killings, but there was even
more madness to come. Presumably the same person also sent
another series of letters, this time to police, the newspaper,
and even to the father of Sherry Joe Bates. Paul
Avery explains.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
Six months later, after her murder, the Riverside Place, the
local newspaper, the Press, enter Prize, and the girl's father
each received a letter. And this is where Ibole he writing,
you're very very similar to zodiacs. You are other things
that make me think that it's quite possibly human. And
(21:23):
inside of these onlined pre whole notebook paper. It said
Bates had to die, there will be more, and right
at the bottom, this is a Z.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
The stylized Z at the bottom of the nineteen sixty
six letter is undeniable, but it's also unlike the Zodiac's
other signed letters, the ones that he ended with his
circle cross signature. But even nineteen sixty six may not
be the start of the Zodiac's reign of terror. His
work may go back even further. Investigators on the Sherry
(22:00):
Joe Bates case connected her murder to another fatal incident
in the area. This time it was a young couple
on the beach three years earlier in nineteen sixty three.
On a tip, we reached out to k EYTTV in Sacramento, California,
regarding a feature from twenty ten that revealed the only
known footage of the crime scene. It's a seventeen second
(22:23):
look at an old shack on the beach where the
bodies of two murdered teenagers were dragged and then burned.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
If Sherry Joe Bates was not the first, who was.
The answer may be buried in these forty three year
old files in the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Cold Case Unit.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
On June fourth, nineteen sixty three, Lompo teenagers Lynda Edwards
and Robert Domingo's celebrated senior Ditch Day by going to
a secluded beach shack twenty five miles west of Santa Barbara.
They planned to graduate in two days then get married,
but the next night a CHPI officer discovered their bodies
inside the shack. Robert had been shot eleven times, Linda
(23:06):
eight times. This is the remote beach where Edwards and
Domingos were gone down.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
As you can see, the old beach shack is long gone,
just like the killer and any evidence that might identify it.
This old newsreel, just discovered in the.
Speaker 7 (23:21):
KYT archives, is the only known film footage of the
crime scene. It shows the area around the beach shack
where the killers shot the teens, and inside where he
dragged their bodies and tried to burn it down to
hide the evidence. The last time this footage aired publicly
was forty two years ago, when no one could have
known its significance. It's only seventeen seconds long, but even
(23:44):
Sheriff's investigators who worked on the case more than thirty
years ago didn't know the film existed. They're also convinced
a young, inexperienced Zodiac murdered Edwards and Domingos more than
five years before his reign of terror in San Francis.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
But there was more to the story. This case had
several similarities to other known Zodiac crimes, especially the Lake
Berriessa attack in nineteen sixty nine that left Cecilia Shepherd
dead and Brian Hartnell fighting for his life. The attacker
approached the teens while they were sunbathing and relaxing on
the beach at gunpoint. One of the teens, Robert Domingos,
(24:25):
was bound using rope the attacker brought to the scene.
The weapon used to kill the couple was a twenty
two caliber semi automatic, possibly a rifle, again with the
Winchester Western Super ex ammunition, the same rounds used by
the Zodiac during the nineteen sixty eight murders on Lake
Herman Road. There were no witnesses and there was no
(24:46):
evidence of robbery or sexual assault. Attempting to hide then
burn the bodies of his victims was unique to this case.
That could have been due to the attacker's lack of experience.
Either way, with little evidence and no witnesses. The case
had no leads for many years, and it remained open
(25:07):
nine years later. In nineteen seventy two, the Santa Barbara
Sheriff's Department issued a press release connecting the Domingos and
Edwards murders to the Zodiac Killer, but that connection was
never officially confirmed. The Zodiac Killer had taken notice of
(25:33):
Paul Avery's detective work back in nineteen seventy connecting the
killing of Sherry Joe Bates and the abduction of Kathleen John's,
a link that Avery called the Riverside Connection. The killer
even acknowledged Avery's efforts within a letter to the La
Times on March thirteenth, nineteen seventy one.
Speaker 10 (25:51):
This is the Zodiac speaking like I have always said.
I'm crapproof. If the Blumeni's they're ever going to catch me,
they had best get off their fat asses and do something,
because the longer they fiddle and fart around, the more
slaves I will collect from my afterlife. I do have
(26:12):
to give them credit for stumbling across my riverside activity,
but they are only finding the easy ones. There are
a hell of a lot more down there. The reason
I'm writing to the Times is this. They don't bury
me on the back pages like some of the others.
San Francisco Police Department zero Zodiac seventeen plus.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
The Zodiac was now further mocking police by claiming to
have taken the lives of as many as seventeen or
more victims. However, the official body count remained at five
after the murder of cab driver Paul Stein. Michael Butterfield
remains unconvinced that Kathleen Johns was truly abducted by the
Zodiac Killer in March of nineteen seventy. He believes it
(27:10):
could have easily been someone else. Others, including Kathleen Johns herself,
continued to believe it was the Zodiac Killer, Yet the
details and the facts surrounding that evening are still a
little loose. Also, what was the Zodiac's motivation for abducting
her and her infant daughter that evening? Was it to
keep up with the recent media attention Charles Manson was receiving,
(27:33):
or had the Zodiac been doing this kind of thing
all along and had just stopped providing details in his letters.
Whatever the situation, this was exactly the break investigators were
looking for. If Kathleen Johns truly did spend two hours
in a car sitting right next to the Zodiac Killer,
would she be able to identify the right man.
Speaker 9 (27:59):
Time time on Monster the Zodiac Killer.
Speaker 6 (28:03):
This is the Ballejo man many investigators considered to be
the notorious Zodiac Killer, and this is the first time
his picture has been revealed.
Speaker 10 (28:13):
Are you the Zodiac Killer?
Speaker 8 (28:14):
There would be nothing farther from my mind. No, I'm
most certainly not the Zodiac Killer.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
We're pretty certain we know who he was, and he
died with bombs in his basement and the Zodiac bomb
formula disc in his computer that said Zodiac.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
I'm pretty sure that the case is solved.
Speaker 11 (28:36):
The suspect that was focused on and highlighted in the
film and in Grace Smith's book, and to a certain
extent even for Tusking Armstrong, Arthur Lee Allen, was what
they call a good suspect.
Speaker 10 (28:51):
The suspect's brother and sister in law say that Allan
often spoke of man as the most dangerous game.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
I enjoy oh a good tussle that hey killing just
for the pleasure of it.
Speaker 9 (29:08):
Monster the Zodiac Killer is a fifteen episode podcast produced
by iHeartRadio, House stuff Works and Tenderfoot TV. Donald Albright
and I are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV,
alongside producers Meredith Steedman, Mason Lindsay, and Christina Dana. Jason
Hope is executive producer on behalf of hou stuff Works,
(29:29):
along with producers Trevor Young, Miranda Hawkins, ben Keebrick, and
josh Than Scott. Benjamin provides additional voice talent. Matt Frederick
is our host. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set.
If you haven't already, make sure to check out the
first season of Monster called Atlanta Monster, about the Atlanta
child murders from the late seventies to the early eighties.
(29:51):
Download the ten episode season right now. Have questions or comments,
email us at Monster at houstuffworks dot com, or you
can call us at one eight three, three, two eight
five six six sixty seven. Thanks for listening.
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely
those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast,
and do not necessarily represent those of iHeartMedia, how Stuff Works,
or its employees. In earlier episodes of Monster, we've mentioned
all the witnesses that might be able to identify the
Zodiac killer, Michael Majeaux, the young man who survived the
(00:23):
attack at Blue Rock Springs, Brian Hartnell, the survivor of
the knife attack at Lake Barriessa, and SFPD officer Don
Fouk that encountered the Zodiac fleeing the Paulstein murder scene.
A combination of the physical descriptions from these brief encounters
were used to create the infamous police sketch you've probably
seen floating around the internet. But in nineteen seventy, there
(00:46):
was another possible witness that had the best chance yet
of identifying the Zodiac Kathleen Johns.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
In March of nineteen seventy, a young woman claimed that
she had been driving along a freeway and a vehicle
pulled up alongside her, and the man inside gestured towards
her vehicle as if there was something wrong.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Was there any any sensation to your vehicle that there
was something wrong with your vehicle while you're driving.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
You know, it was an old Wrangley car. Anything could
have been wrong. The back of lights would have been out,
anything could have been wrong with it.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
I wouldn't it was running fire.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So she pulled over, and according to the story, the
man pulled over and said, hey, your tires loose. I'll
tighten it for you.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
So he went back and got a tire iron, came back,
went to the back, settled around, stopped again at the
window and said.
Speaker 6 (01:39):
It's okay.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
You know her, it should be okay.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
What he did was actually loosen the tire and.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
I'll go too far on the year across the street,
not even.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
And the tire fell off.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
That gave him a perfect opportunity to pretend to be
the good Samaritan and offer her a ride.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
A man in a mask robbed, tied, and stabbed them,
leaving them for dead.
Speaker 7 (02:08):
Subjects stated, I want to report a murder, no a
double murder.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
I did it.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
A man who wore a medieval style executioner's hood, carried
a knife and gun and intended to use them.
Speaker 8 (02:23):
They haven't arrested me because they can't prove a thing.
I'm not the damn Zodiac?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Who is the Zodiac and where is he from?
Speaker 9 (02:31):
iHeartRadio, Houstuff Works and Tenderfoot TV. This is Monster the
Zodiac Killer. In this episode of Monster, we're going to
hit rewind and talk about some things you've likely never
heard before. Until the early nineteen seventies, everyone believed the
(02:52):
first Zodiac killing was in nineteen sixty eight, the murder
of Betty Lou Jensen and David Faraday in Benetia. But
after a while, investigators realized that the Zodiac's trail might
go back a few more years. Today, as the Zodiac
case passes the fifty year anniversary without any arrests, without
any answers, we're taking the opportunity to examine a few
(03:15):
earlier unsolved cases, including the case of Kathleen John's.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
On March twenty second, nineteen seventy, Kathleen Johns and her
infant daughter Jennifer had a terrifying experience on a dark
and desolate highway. After more than two decades of silence,
Kathleen finally spoke of this incident.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
I had more sense than to stop on this dark road.
You know, I wanted to get where there was one
night when I could hope they hurt. But when I
got onto the freeway where I could see a gap
the enemy, I stopped on the sidelok.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Two men interviewed Kathleen at a diner in nineteen ninety eight.
We've come into possession of a rare copy of this interview.
Kathleen John's account of that evening is one of the
many unsolved cases that some believe to be the work
of the Zodiac.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Kathleen Johns was pregnant at the time, and she also
had her infant daughter with her. That's something that the
person may not have known when he was driving alongside
that car and trying to get her to pull over,
and he may not have realized that until the last moment,
when he had already offered her a ride and she
gets out of the car with her stomach and her baby.
(04:24):
It's possible that at that moment the person reconsidered what
they were doing and may have decided, well, I was
intending to kill this person, but now I know she's
pregnant and she's got a baby with her, I'm not
sure I really want to go through with it.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
Okay, let me ask you this why did you stop
your car?
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Well, I wanted to see what when they was wrong,
but you know, I wanted to get word of it
was more night in lahaw I could see a gas station.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
We don't know for sure what happened, but we do
know that Kathleen John's got in the car with that
individual and that he appeared to be driving aimlessly away
from gas station. He promised to take her to and
at a certain point she became suspicious.
Speaker 7 (05:06):
Now you know he said to you that he was
going to kill you? Did he utter that or infer
that again?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Many times? In this monotone, no feeling, no looking at me,
driving on.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
In her earlier statements, it indicated that he did not
threaten her, but later on she claimed that he said
that he was going to kill her and throw the
baby out the window.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Did he change the wording or was it always you
know you're gonna die. You know I'm going to kill
you and throw that baby out?
Speaker 3 (05:35):
How many times did he ask you to throw Jennifer off?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Quite a few? I mean you don't have a dozen.
We were out there, seemed to go for a long time.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Kathleen became very concerned. She asked him at a certain point,
do you always go around helping people like this? And
she said that he replied by saying, when I'm through
with him, they don't need help, or something to that effect.
This scared her enough that after I guess about two hours,
she decided that the next time he slowed down that
(06:06):
she was going to jump out. So she seized the
first opportunity that came along. She grabbed your child, jumped out,
ran away.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
When I bailed, he got out to you like car
like Kemon hadn't that vineyards everywhere, because he was yelling.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
Come back here.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
According to various reports, he either screamed at her from
the car or got out of the car and tried
to find her, But then another vehicle pulled up and
he apparently got spooked and drove away. She got into
the car with that individual, and that person took her
to the nearby police department, where she was describing what happened.
(06:44):
And while she was in the course of giving her
story to police, she saw a composite sketch of the
Zodiac killer and said, that's the guy who did this.
Shortly after that, which I believe four months later, another
Zodiac let her arrived.
Speaker 10 (07:02):
This is the Zodiac speaking. I am rather unhappy because
you people will not wear some Zodiac buttons. So I
now have a little list, starting with a woman and
her baby that I gave a rather interesting ride for
a couple hours one evening a few months back that
ended in my burning her car where I found them
signed Zodiac.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Kathleen John's station wagon was burned. We don't know whether
or not the killer did that. We don't know whether
or not the person who abducted her was actually the Zodiac.
And maybe the Zodiac was just taking credit for it
because that's what the media was saying. It's possible that
the Zodiac liked to create confusion and thought he would
benefit from that. So if he did abduct Kathleen John's
(07:48):
and he took the credit for it, then he was
just acknowledging his involvement as already reported by the media.
If he wasn't involved and he decided to take credit
for it because people were already accusing him of that,
that tells you something about him too, that he thought, well,
this just adds to my image. It makes me look
(08:08):
all the more scary. And at the same time, if
it wasn't him, what happens. When Kathleen Johns identifies the
person or describes that person, it's not him, right, So
that just creates more confusion. If the Zodiac was not
responsible for that crime, he certainly enjoyed exploiting it because
it added and it patted his resume. So in the end,
(08:32):
Kathleen Johns is listed as a suspected Zodiac victim. But
since she's also passed away and there was no solid evidence,
I don't think we'll ever be able to answer that question.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Her interview was recorded in nineteen ninety eight, nearly twenty
eight years after her encounter. By this time, Kathleen's name
had changed to Smith.
Speaker 7 (09:00):
On January one, nineteen ninety eight, meeting with Kathy Smith,
Howard Davis is also here present.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
I hope, Kathy, that this comes out with all.
Speaker 8 (09:09):
Of the background noise and everything.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
But I'm going to ask.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
You to kind of speak up a little bit, if
you would.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Even after so much time had passed, Kathleen still remembered
the incident vividly.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Did you have any sense at all that views behind you?
Speaker 4 (09:27):
There was the car behind me and.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
Kept watching his light. I had always hoped to be
able to talk to Kathleen and we were fortune to
talk from before she passed away.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
This is Howard Davis, one of the men who interviewed Kathleen.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
He had secured an interview with Kathleen at a local Dennis.
When we interviewed Kathleen for a while and then John,
a reporter went out for battery. We really just got
the basics from her. We just went through the interview.
He really didn't get much, but we did get some
(10:04):
information that no one had heard about before. I don't
think there were any other interviews after that.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Howard Davis wholeheartedly believes that Kathleen encountered the Zodiac that day.
Kathleen's description of her abductor closely resembled other eyewitness descriptions
of the Zodiac.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
He was wearing the bell bottom pants, the naval appearance,
military dress shoes, military dress shoes. Footprints were found at
the base scene where her car was That a part
she was a Zodiac victim. She's the only one to
escape the Zodiac, not only with her life but unharmed,
(10:43):
even right next to the Zodiac.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
The Kathleen John's abduction does not fit the Zodiac's previously
established pattern, but also at the same time, he also
deviated from his pattern, going from couples to a cab driver.
Then he said that he was no longer going to
announce his murders and they were going to look like
fake accidents and routine robberies and killings of anger. So
maybe he had some plan for what he wanted to do,
(11:24):
but it did involve a drastic change in his mo
Maybe he was going to murder her and make it
look like an accident. Maybe he was going to come
back and wreck her car or do something. I don't know,
but there's some people who believe that if he was
responsible for that crime, that he burned the car to
cover up evidence, because he may have touched the car
(11:46):
when he was loosening the lugnuts on the wheel. There's
also the possibility that he had intended to kill John's
and then decided not to go through with it because
she was pregnant and had a kid, and then was
frustrated and needed to do something, so he drove back
to where the car was and set fire to it.
It also possibly had nothing to do with it, and
(12:07):
Kathleen Johns was wrong in her identification. But then you
come to the fact that During that same period of time,
there was also speculation that the Zodiac may have been
involved in another murder in nineteen sixty six at Riverside
City College. After the Zodiac murders were being reported in
the media, investigators in Riverside were watching and saying, this
(12:30):
looks kind of familiar and maybe these crimes are connected.
So they contacted the Zodiac investigators and reported their suspicions,
and after investigators looked at this, they thought it was
very possible that the Zodiac had committed the crime in Riverside.
You had a young woman who was apparently visiting the
(12:51):
college library, and while she was inside, someone disabled her car,
and when she came out and her car was start
this person allegedly offered her a ride, and then when
she went with him, he took her off into a
darkened area and stabbed her to death. So if the
(13:12):
Zodiac was responsible for the murdered Riverside, then that does
provide some indication that he may have been responsible for
the Johns event, because there's a similarity of selecting a
single woman, disabling her car and such. Then later on
San Francisco Chronicle reporter Paul Avery learned of this possible
(13:32):
connection and reported it in the media in what was
called the Riverside Connection.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Was the Riverside killing of Sherry Joe Bates somehow connected
to the midnight abduction of Kathleen John's and were both
of these crimes three and a half years apart committed
by the Zodiac. We learned there was a possibility of
finding some unprocessed film footage of Paul Avery just after
he made the Riverside connection. There was only one place
(14:01):
to go in search of a rare piece of film
like that, the Bay Area Television Archive in San Francisco.
Speaker 8 (14:12):
My name is Alex Cherrian. I'm the film archivist at
San Francisco State University's John Paul Nnard Library. The Bay
Area Television Archive is in our Department of Special Collections.
This is where we preserve and remaster local news film,
documentary broadcast video tape from the nineteen fifties through to
about two thousand. Before we work on it, it's just
(14:35):
old film and tape. By the time we finished with it.
What you're looking at is a screener which is viewable
online for free. I enjoy local, specific regional history a lot.
I like being able to relate to it, to look
at a building and know what happened there fifty years ago.
I also like being on the cutting edge of finding
(14:56):
stuff and making it available. If someone comes up with
some kind of kookie idea which is patently ridiculous, I
don't care. It needs to be explored in order to
rule it out. And making all of our stuff available online,
I enjoyed doing that. I get an excitement from doing it.
It could be the Zodiac, it could be a chess tournament,
it could be something to do with Jerry Brown, who
(15:18):
features in our collections way back to the early seventies.
I don't mind. You either enjoy that or you don't,
and I love it. So this is the raw news film.
This is how it was put into cans before it
came to us in the early nineteen eighties. So what
(15:39):
you're looking at there is a reel of sixteen milimeter
film from the early nineteen seventies. It doesn't even have
a plastic core on it, which means you can't even
project it. This is just coming raw from the lab.
I guarantee you no one's touched that for over forty years.
It may have been covered in a similar fashion by
(15:59):
a different tea v station. But the sound of the
reporter or the eyewitness or the detective talking about a
zodiac in nineteen seventy two, no one's ever heard that,
and it will be decent quality because no one's been
messing around with it.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
What things in this evidence you've got from the Riverside
police actually lead you to believe that there could be
or is some connection.
Speaker 6 (16:26):
Oh there's police lineage, the motors OPERANDU of the killer,
the Cherry bas space and river Side and zodioacil. Are
there many eagle media wanting to get recognition for the
killer writing to a new State the fact that in
(16:48):
no cases, including the Sharrybase, has there ever been sexual molestation.
Usually in a killing of a coat, it's usually a
sex herely just for the shares Ler phone, I received
the letter individual in southern California pointing outre similarity was
actually it was an anonymous letter, and I felt that
(17:12):
there might be something for it, so I contacted the
Riverside Police. Were very cooperative to computer and gave me
information on the phone and then sent me some information
zerox copies of thirsty documents. This is the first one
of the first two letters that was received by the
newspaper in Riverside and by the police department. The inside
(17:35):
was a typewritten confession, and this is known to be
from the murder sary base because of details in the
unsigned profession. This was received exactly one month of the
day after she was killed.
Speaker 9 (17:48):
You're about to hear the letter that Paul Avery just described.
This letter contains graphic details. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 10 (17:58):
Miss Bates was stupid. She went to the slaughter like
a lamb. She did not put up a struggle, but
I did. It was a ball. I first pulled the
middle wire from the distributor. Then I waited for in
the library and followed her out. After two minutes, the
battery must have been about dead by then. I then
offered to help. She was then very willing to talk
(18:21):
to me. I told her that my car was down
the street and I would give her a lift home.
When we were away from the library walking, I said
it was about time. She asked me about time. For
what I said, it was about time for her to die.
I grabbed her around the neck with my hand over
her mouth and my other hand with a small knife
(18:42):
at her throat. She went very willingly. Her breast felt
very warm and firm under my hands, but only one
thing was on my mind, making her pay for the
brush offs that she had given me during the years prior.
She died hard. She squirmed and shook as I choked her,
and her lips twitched. She let out a scream once,
(19:05):
and I kicked her head to shut her up. I
plunged the knife into her and it broke. I didn't
finish the job by cutting her throat. I'm not sick,
I am insane, but that will not stop the game.
This letter should be published for all to read it.
It just might save that girl in the alley, but
(19:26):
that's up to you. It will be on your conscious,
not mine. Yes, I did make that call to you also,
it was just a warning, beware, I am stalking your
girls now.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Now, some of that information appears to have been available
in the public media at the time, but it's still
possible that it was the actual killer who wrote it,
or someone who was trying to misdirect the investigation. I'm
sure that if things did go down the way that
it's described in that letter, she thought that man was
going to help her, and just like a lake Barry Essa,
(20:08):
that person took advantage of her and forced her to
participate in her own murder, and in the letter, he
said she went to the slaughter like a lamb.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
So the police potentially had a Zodiac letter as early
as nineteen sixty six, just one month after the Bates murder.
At the time, police thought the note was written by
the actual killer because the information included in the letter
was highly detailed, specifically the manner in which the attacker
disabled the victim's car. I can't help but wonder why
(20:38):
didn't the Sherry Joe Bates case get more attention prior
to the nineteen sixty eight killings, but there was even
more madness to come. Presumably the same person also sent
another series of letters, this time to police, the newspaper,
and even to the father of Sherry Joe Bates. Paul
Avery explains.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
Six months later, after her murder, the Riverside Place, the
local newspaper, the Press, enter Prize, and the girl's father
each received a letter. And this is where Ibole he writing,
you're very very similar to zodiacs. You are other things
that make me think that it's quite possibly human. And
(21:23):
inside of these onlined pre whole notebook paper. It said
Bates had to die, there will be more, and right
at the bottom, this is a Z.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
The stylized Z at the bottom of the nineteen sixty
six letter is undeniable, but it's also unlike the Zodiac's
other signed letters, the ones that he ended with his
circle cross signature. But even nineteen sixty six may not
be the start of the Zodiac's reign of terror. His
work may go back even further. Investigators on the Sherry
(22:00):
Joe Bates case connected her murder to another fatal incident
in the area. This time it was a young couple
on the beach three years earlier in nineteen sixty three.
On a tip, we reached out to k EYTTV in Sacramento, California,
regarding a feature from twenty ten that revealed the only
known footage of the crime scene. It's a seventeen second
(22:23):
look at an old shack on the beach where the
bodies of two murdered teenagers were dragged and then burned.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
If Sherry Joe Bates was not the first, who was.
The answer may be buried in these forty three year
old files in the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Cold Case Unit.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
On June fourth, nineteen sixty three, Lompo teenagers Lynda Edwards
and Robert Domingo's celebrated senior Ditch Day by going to
a secluded beach shack twenty five miles west of Santa Barbara.
They planned to graduate in two days then get married,
but the next night a CHPI officer discovered their bodies
inside the shack. Robert had been shot eleven times, Linda
(23:06):
eight times. This is the remote beach where Edwards and
Domingos were gone down.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
As you can see, the old beach shack is long gone,
just like the killer and any evidence that might identify it.
This old newsreel, just discovered in the.
Speaker 7 (23:21):
KYT archives, is the only known film footage of the
crime scene. It shows the area around the beach shack
where the killers shot the teens, and inside where he
dragged their bodies and tried to burn it down to
hide the evidence. The last time this footage aired publicly
was forty two years ago, when no one could have
known its significance. It's only seventeen seconds long, but even
(23:44):
Sheriff's investigators who worked on the case more than thirty
years ago didn't know the film existed. They're also convinced
a young, inexperienced Zodiac murdered Edwards and Domingos more than
five years before his reign of terror in San Francis.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
But there was more to the story. This case had
several similarities to other known Zodiac crimes, especially the Lake
Berriessa attack in nineteen sixty nine that left Cecilia Shepherd
dead and Brian Hartnell fighting for his life. The attacker
approached the teens while they were sunbathing and relaxing on
the beach at gunpoint. One of the teens, Robert Domingos,
(24:25):
was bound using rope the attacker brought to the scene.
The weapon used to kill the couple was a twenty
two caliber semi automatic, possibly a rifle, again with the
Winchester Western Super ex ammunition, the same rounds used by
the Zodiac during the nineteen sixty eight murders on Lake
Herman Road. There were no witnesses and there was no
(24:46):
evidence of robbery or sexual assault. Attempting to hide then
burn the bodies of his victims was unique to this case.
That could have been due to the attacker's lack of experience.
Either way, with little evidence and no witnesses. The case
had no leads for many years, and it remained open
(25:07):
nine years later. In nineteen seventy two, the Santa Barbara
Sheriff's Department issued a press release connecting the Domingos and
Edwards murders to the Zodiac Killer, but that connection was
never officially confirmed. The Zodiac Killer had taken notice of
(25:33):
Paul Avery's detective work back in nineteen seventy connecting the
killing of Sherry Joe Bates and the abduction of Kathleen John's,
a link that Avery called the Riverside Connection. The killer
even acknowledged Avery's efforts within a letter to the La
Times on March thirteenth, nineteen seventy one.
Speaker 10 (25:51):
This is the Zodiac speaking like I have always said.
I'm crapproof. If the Blumeni's they're ever going to catch me,
they had best get off their fat asses and do something,
because the longer they fiddle and fart around, the more
slaves I will collect from my afterlife. I do have
(26:12):
to give them credit for stumbling across my riverside activity,
but they are only finding the easy ones. There are
a hell of a lot more down there. The reason
I'm writing to the Times is this. They don't bury
me on the back pages like some of the others.
San Francisco Police Department zero Zodiac seventeen plus.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
The Zodiac was now further mocking police by claiming to
have taken the lives of as many as seventeen or
more victims. However, the official body count remained at five
after the murder of cab driver Paul Stein. Michael Butterfield
remains unconvinced that Kathleen Johns was truly abducted by the
Zodiac Killer in March of nineteen seventy. He believes it
(27:10):
could have easily been someone else. Others, including Kathleen Johns herself,
continued to believe it was the Zodiac Killer, Yet the
details and the facts surrounding that evening are still a
little loose. Also, what was the Zodiac's motivation for abducting
her and her infant daughter that evening? Was it to
keep up with the recent media attention Charles Manson was receiving,
(27:33):
or had the Zodiac been doing this kind of thing
all along and had just stopped providing details in his letters.
Whatever the situation, this was exactly the break investigators were
looking for. If Kathleen Johns truly did spend two hours
in a car sitting right next to the Zodiac Killer,
would she be able to identify the right man.
Speaker 9 (27:59):
Time time on Monster the Zodiac Killer.
Speaker 6 (28:03):
This is the Ballejo man many investigators considered to be
the notorious Zodiac Killer, and this is the first time
his picture has been revealed.
Speaker 10 (28:13):
Are you the Zodiac Killer?
Speaker 8 (28:14):
There would be nothing farther from my mind. No, I'm
most certainly not the Zodiac Killer.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
We're pretty certain we know who he was, and he
died with bombs in his basement and the Zodiac bomb
formula disc in his computer that said Zodiac.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
I'm pretty sure that the case is solved.
Speaker 11 (28:36):
The suspect that was focused on and highlighted in the
film and in Grace Smith's book, and to a certain
extent even for Tusking Armstrong, Arthur Lee Allen, was what
they call a good suspect.
Speaker 10 (28:51):
The suspect's brother and sister in law say that Allan
often spoke of man as the most dangerous game.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
I enjoy oh a good tussle that hey killing just
for the pleasure of it.
Speaker 9 (29:08):
Monster the Zodiac Killer is a fifteen episode podcast produced
by iHeartRadio, House stuff Works and Tenderfoot TV. Donald Albright
and I are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV,
alongside producers Meredith Steedman, Mason Lindsay, and Christina Dana. Jason
Hope is executive producer on behalf of hou stuff Works,
(29:29):
along with producers Trevor Young, Miranda Hawkins, ben Keebrick, and
josh Than Scott. Benjamin provides additional voice talent. Matt Frederick
is our host. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set.
If you haven't already, make sure to check out the
first season of Monster called Atlanta Monster, about the Atlanta
child murders from the late seventies to the early eighties.
(29:51):
Download the ten episode season right now. Have questions or comments,
email us at Monster at houstuffworks dot com, or you
can call us at one eight three, three, two eight
five six six sixty seven. Thanks for listening.
Monster: The Zodiac Killer News
Hosts And Creators
Payne Lindsey
Matt Frederick
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