March 12, 2019 • 36 mins
Fascination leads beyond obsession, as a new Zodiac emerges in New York City.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely
those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast,
and do not necessarily represent those of iHeart Media, Stuff Media,
or its employees. On the fiftieth anniversary of the Zodiacs
first confirmed killings in Benetia, a group of self proclaimed
(00:20):
Zodiologists visited the site on Lake Herman Road. They went
there to pay homage to the victims David Faraday and
Betty lu Jensen. Days earlier, a threat was made to
harm anyone who showed up at the Lake Herman site
on the anniversary. The Zodiologists decided to go anyway, and
we joined them. Yeah, I know there were threats made
(00:44):
for people who came here tonight. What do we have
about people here right now and over the next half hour.
I expect maybe another dozen people are more coming here,
though I know there are other people who would be
here tonight if those threats have not been made, people
who want to be here and remember the anniversary and
(01:05):
remember David and Betty lou N She did nice, yet
Lourest David A M. You're looking at the crosses where
it would be a good place to have them set
for a while. Right now, I came up here. If
(01:26):
I didn't know if anybody we're gonna be here because
that threat about a shooting or something, SAM would drive
off here. Anyway, I'll take my chances. It's really interested
to see a police officer here from the Venetia Police Department.
About twenty people who came over here. There's none of
us who were going to cause any problems. But we
have no idea who else is going to be here
(01:46):
this evening. There will quite likely be a number of
other cars of people that we don't know that it
will show up. I'm Corporal Cruise with the Inanitia Police Department.
We're here because of the fiftie anniversary of the Zodiac killing.
We're just here for extra patrol and just kind of
make sure everyone that comes here wants to be here
(02:07):
and stay safe. What makes she wonders how the Zodiac?
I mean, you hate trail him out here? You find
them by accident? And where was the car park? It
was parked about where the where the taller of the
arrow science right there, headed right towards this way. I
don't know. They show the crime sheet photos, but you
can't in there were the backup facing. I think David
(02:35):
was found this is Tom's territory, but I think he
was found outside the passengers side door because he tried
to get away and she had gotten out and got
she got down here and he got he was killed
right there. It's it's been a real treat to hang
out with other zodiologists and talk about the anniversary. This
(02:58):
being the fiftieth anniversary is kind of sobering time. You know,
fifty years ago today there was a couple who was
holding hands and kissing in the front seat of a
station wagon. But an hour from now, less than an
hour from now, we will commemorate the time that they
were shot dead for no purpose apparently, and the perpetrator
(03:20):
has still not been identified or brought to justice. A
man in a mask robbed, tied, and stabbed them, leaving
them for day. Subjects stated, I want to report a murder,
(03:41):
no a double murder. I did it. A man who
wore an evil style executioner's hood, carried a knife and
gun and intended to use them. They haven't arrested me
because they can't prove it. I'm not damn zodiac. Who
is the zodiac and where is he from? My Heart Radio,
(04:03):
How Stuff Works, and Tenderfoot TV. This is Monster, the
Zodiac Killer. They say imitation is the highest form of flattery,
and if that's true, the Zodiac may have had some admirers.
By now, you've heard about the range and murder weapons
and all the other inconsistencies between the Zodiac killings. In
(04:25):
this episode, we'll see double confronting the unpleasant idea of
a Zodiac copycat. Unspeakable evil is one thing, but consciously
replicating that evil that may be worse. There are people
(04:48):
who are totally wrapped up. They don't celebrate, but they
commemorate every anniversary of these murders. People they never met,
they didn't know. That's Rachel Raskin's Rhian, who you heard
on last week's episode. She's a reporter at the Times
Harold in Valleo, a paper that's been involved with the
case since the very beginning. What's funny is the people
(05:12):
who did know, the people who has happened to don't
do that. I haven't met one that does that. They
may remember it in their head, but they don't go
to the site in the middle of the night. Why
would you have a fan club for something like a
serial killer. I guess it's not unusual. Like Manson, Charles Manson,
he's got followers. Still, I can't explain it. They can't
(05:37):
explain it. I've asked. Rachel says she's heard a lot
of strange stories about the Zodiac. Some people even claim
to have escaped the unknown killer. I've had a couple
of people tell me that they are positive that they
encountered this person and escaped death, and they can't let
it go. It just becomes a part their life, and
(06:01):
some people have becomes more of a part of their
life than other people. But I imagine if you thought
you encountered a serial killer and lived to tell the tale,
it probably sticks with you. After the incident happened with Betty,
(06:24):
you know, of course, everyone's talking about it in Valleo
kind of were a close knit town at that time.
The population wasn't like it is now. This is Lorraine
de Groat. You heard her from an earlier episode when
she remembered losing her childhood friend Betty lu Jensen. Lorraine
believes that she too had a chance encounter with the
Zodiac when her cousin and a few friends decided to
(06:47):
visit the murder scene at Lake Herman Road. This is
her story as a teenager. This one night, my cousin
talked to us all in. We agreed, the four of us, okay,
let's take right out there. And it was kind of late.
It was like tan ten thirty eleven, and my cousin's
driving Henry and I'm behind him, and then Nadine is
(07:09):
passenger and my boyfriend's behind her. We go out there
and it's totally black dark, there's no street lights, you
can't see nothing, and the headlights. There's a guy standing
in the road. So what was so noticeable was he
was wearing this like I want to say it's an
(07:32):
army jacket, but it was big, it was loose, and
it went down to just about probably between his knees
and his thighs. We were focusing and I go, oh,
there's a there's a guy. I'm sitting behind my cousin
and I'm kicking him. I'm going, don't stop, don't stop,
because I'm scared. I didn't even want to be out there,
so I'm saying don't stop, don't stop. So we had
(07:55):
to slow down because the guy wouldn't get out of
the road. So we're slowing down. Nadine rolls the window
down and so does my boyfriend and as we rolled
the window down, my cousin said, can we help you?
What's up? Then the guy leans kind of leans in
towards Nadine looking at us, and he said, I can't
(08:18):
find my girlfriend. We were out on a fishing boat
on Lake Herman. We're going oh and it's eleven at night,
you know, and I'm really kicking my cousin. I'm going go,
go go, because it just didn't sound right. And he said,
if you could just park over here and um help
me find her. Well, that was just totally stupid. It
(08:42):
didn't even make any sense. So then my cousin like
acted like, okay, we'll help you. Of course, there's no phones,
no cell phones, and I think we mentioned something like, well,
where's your car and he said he didn't have one.
So we said, well, we could call the police for you,
and then my cousin just kind of sped off the
(09:04):
minute he the guy stood up, and we were also scared,
and I said, that's Zodiac. I kept saying that is Zodiac.
So we drove that whole road because there's no turning
around to come back so as we're speeding away, about
a mile mile and a half from where we left
him was a car. Was a car on the right
(09:27):
hand side. It was the only car during our whole
speeding venture to get off that road. My guess is
it had to have been his car, because there was
Like I said, there was no houses, there was no
that was his car. We drove that road and it
comes straight into Benicia. So we go straight up to
the police station. We told him the story. There's a
(09:49):
guy out there, we just ran into him. He said
his girlfriend, he lost her. And then I remember I
told the officer I was saying, I think that was Zodiac.
He said, well, we're gonna go check that out. We
will drive out there. And then I said, can I
call you back tomorrow so you can tell me if
they found his girlfriend. When I called the police station
(10:13):
the next day, of course, my curiosity is just off
the chart. So I said, what happened? And he said,
we went out there, and he goes, there was nothing
out there, there was no car. I think he was
gonna kill whoever was in the car, but there was
four of us. That's what I think. I'm so consumed
(10:37):
to this day about Zodiac until the day I die.
I believe that was Zodiac. Lorraine said it was curiosity
(11:02):
that led her and her friends down Lake Herman Road
that night. In five decades later, Lorraine's fascination with the
Zodiac continues. But what can happen when someone's fascination with
a killer becomes an obsession and even an opportunity to
pick up where a killer left off. This happened in
the late nineteen eighties when another Zodiac killer showed up
(11:26):
in New York City. In the area that was involved,
basically East New York Brooklyn. At the time, it was
like the motor capital of the world. It was the
most violent precinct in New York City. It still is,
but back then it was really, really terrible. We were
averaging over a hundred homicides plus an additional five hundred
montreto shootings within five square miles. So it was a
(11:47):
very hectic time for the police and the detectives. And
in the midst of all this violence was an emerging
serial killer who was calling himself to Zodiac. My name
is Joseph Herbert. I'm a deputy chief in a New
York City police department. I recently retired and my final
(12:08):
position was to commanding of the Joint TOEWS On Test Force.
Deputy Chief Joe Herbert played a key role in the
Zodiac case, which took place in New York City. On
November the NYPD received an unusual letter. It stated that
one person for each of the twelve zodiac signs would
be killed. Authorities believed it was a hoax and nothing
(12:31):
to be alarmed about, and there was no reason to
follow up. The first letter came into the Semi five precinct,
and that letter he was taken credit for a shooting
that we never identified. They didn't marry it up to
any actual shooting. It had the circle, it had rambling writing,
and it wasn't taken seriously. I think it ended up
(12:52):
into somebody's lacker. Authorities would soon realize the threats were
no joke. His first him was a handicapped individual who
was returning home from work late at night. His name
was Mario Roscoe. He was walking approaching Atlantic Avenue coming
home from the train and he was approached from the
(13:12):
rear and shot once in the back by an individual
who had a vandanna over his face and did not
rob him, did not saying they just shot him and
ran away. Three weeks later, the second victim, who was
also coming home from the subway station. The name was
Herman Montenegro. He was a little intoxicated. He was out
(13:36):
partying and he's coming home from the subway and he
gets approached from the rear again and he shot in
the back for no reason, although in his case he
believed that his passport was taken from him. With that
being said, there was no letters left at that and
there was no connection by the police that these two
(13:57):
incidents were connected, and they were investigated as random shootings
and they want some The first two victims of the
unknown shooter had survived, the victim of the third attack
would not be so lucky. The next shooting was Joseph Proachy.
He was an elderly male. We used to walk around
(14:17):
the East New York section of Brooklyn to collect bottles
and cans for the deposit. He was very friendly with
people in the community. One night, he's returning home from
collecting bottles and cans and he's approached from the rear
as he's entering his building and he shot once in
the back. Also, the difference was at this scene the
(14:39):
shooter left a note, and he weighed the note down
with three stones, which could indicate that he might have
left notes at the prior incidents and they might have
blown away in the wind, but you know well uncertain
of that. So anyway, he leaves a note at the
proachy scene, and in the note he takes credit for
three shootings, and he articulates and the letters the proper
(15:03):
zodiac sign of each victim. The killer was apparently selecting
victims based on their birthday the New York Zodiac. Then
sent letters to the New York Post in sixty minutes.
These letters were studied for DNA and latent fingerprints. Please
ramp up heavily. They had detected a couple of patents.
(15:24):
One pattern was the incidents occurred in multiples of twenty
one days. The first attack occurred on March, then twenty
one days later there was a second attack, and then
sixty three days later was the Dot shooting. So they
saw it that it was in multiples. On the twenty
(15:44):
one day at the shooting, they flooded the area incredibly
like a massive presence of undercovers, uniforms, detectives. Everything they
could do and what happened is the individual does strike,
but he doesn't strike in East New York section of Brooklyn.
He took the train into Manhattan and he should Labby Pawham,
(16:05):
who was sleeping on a park bench in Central Park
at that scene. He leaves another note and was also
weighed down by a stone with the appropriate zodiac sign
of Labby Paham, now taking credit for four shootings with
the appropriate zodiac signs of all four victims. Now that
letter was very important. Everybody was aware of what was
(16:26):
going on in Brooklyn. So when they came up upon
a shooting in Central Park in Manhattan and they recovered
the letter, the climb scene was pristine, and they were
able to recover a fingerprint from that letter, which were
about to be very important later on in the investigation.
This story may be starting to sound familiar. A string
(16:47):
of letters taunting the police hopes that a fingerprint would
help catch the killer. The killer in New York was
following in the footsteps of the Zodiac. When let his
first came in, he actually claimed that he was one
and the same as the Zodiac killer. He actually jew
a sketch of the California Zodiac, wearing a hood on
one of his letters and he said to me in
(17:08):
the park. So, you know, we had no idea, you know,
if it was the same individual the fingerprint that we
had from the PAM letter, they sent it to the
San Francisco dohities and was not a match too to
that letter. The killer was still on the loose and
authorities were trying to find any leads that would put
the city's fear at ease. There was a lot of
(17:31):
havoc and a lot of chaos in the city at
the time because the Post was getting the letters and
they were producing headlines, and there was putting a lot
of fear into the city. So anybody who asked anybody
for their birthdays in a in a random conversation, people
would panic and they would call the cops. So when
Mr Piam got shot in Central Park, he recovered and
(17:52):
they interviewed him and he says, a couple of days
before the shooting, he was sitting on a park bench
in Central Park and an individual he was talking and
the birthdays came up. A composite sketch was made of
the man who spoke with Parum about birthdays just days
before the shooting. So that was the basis of that sketch.
(18:13):
They actually ended the investigation extensively by putting that sketch out.
Took us in a long direction for a very long time.
When you put out a sketch, you're going to get
a lot of response. Make sure that you're putting a
sketch out of someone who you have a witness scene
doing the climb. It was a male black initially, and
the Zodiac was actually a much in a malismanic just
(18:37):
like the original Zodiac. The media played a key role
in this case, and not one that was always helpful.
After the press leaks that a fingerprint had been taken
from one of the letters, the New York Zodiac fell silent.
They wouldn't hear from him again until two years later
on August. The killer struck again, but Sastafante was the
(19:01):
only one that was a little bit different than the others.
He approached her in daylight. I was she exited a bus.
She was apparently lost in the book area, and he
approached her and entices to the golopment to the plot
with him by giving her cigarettes. She had psychological issues
and he took advantage of her, and he goes so
(19:21):
we allays does a look part of the park and
the attacks he saves a one hundred times, killing her.
Three more attacks would take place, all within close range
of Highland Park, which borders between Brooklyn and Queens. James
Webber and John Diacon were both shot and wounded in
June and July. Another near fatal shooting would occur that October,
(19:47):
again in Highland Park, when Diane Ballard was shot in
the neck. She survived but was left paralyzed. The only
one that was able to describe the pip was Dianne
Ballad and that was the assis of the male of
Spanic with the mus dish and the hat. So she
was the one that kind of took us from the
heavyset mail black sketch to a male Spanic sketch. The
(20:12):
Zodiac had succeeded in putting fear into the citizens of
New York. The NYPD began to ramp up in reaction
to the killings, even forming a task force specifically for
the case. It was the biggest man hunt in New
York since the Son of Sam killings in six It
was abouty serious case. The NYPD took a lot of interest,
(20:32):
a lot of expense. They were literally being embabrassed because
every time you said the lettos going headlines at the
New York Post and all the other those papers. But
in the letters, he was actually twenty in the NYPD
at one point, zodiac the number of his victims it
might have been nine and n YPD zero. Looking for
(20:53):
any possible leads in this case, investigators in the media,
we're trying to make a deeper connection between the shootings
and the astrological calendar. A lot of people dropped dimes,
a lot of people who contacted us. We would contacted
from all over the world, Belgium, India, Pakistan, people who
were interested in the zodiac, and they studied the zodiac
(21:14):
and they were given us ideas. I'm an investigator based
all my conclusions on evidence, so I didn't really like
get involved with the zodiac angle of it. I concentrated
on the finger prints. Joe maintains that ultimately good police
work and logic helped bring this killer to justice. By
tracking the locations of the shootings, Joe and his squad
(21:37):
were able to hone in on some locations where the
shooter was operating the monetary. Earlier letters, he describes an
intersection in eastern oak Brooklyn, Elbert Lane and Jamaica Avenue.
There's an l elevated train station. Along Jamaica Avenue, you
have Frankman Kay Lane, which is a large public high
(21:58):
school and as a large playing field, and around the
playing field you have high benches, you know, for people
to sit and watch the games. He would follow people
from the train station. It was an exit at that intersection. Also,
we figured he was concealing himself up on the stands
and then he would come down and follow the people
(22:19):
to wherever they went and wait for his prime moment
to shoot them when no audi else was around. Remembers
his first comfort zone. The second comfort zone was all
in Highland Park. Now at Highland Park, there was a
large reservoir on top of the park. Around the reservoir,
it was a perch where he had the ability to
walk around and look for victims. Once he identified his
(22:43):
victims from about the top of the reservoir area, he
would come down the hill and strike his victims were
walking innocently in the park. We identified both those comfort zones.
We drew out a map and we went a mile east,
a mile west of north, and a mile south of
those comfort zones, so we had probably like you know,
(23:04):
like a two or three square mile area. We ran
every address that were in the complience of that map,
and then we searched about databases for people who had
criminal histories in those addresses, came up with about names.
I didn't really have a lot of faith in the
computers at that time, so we submitted for manual latent
(23:26):
fingerprint evaluation all the people that had criminal histories in
those forty addresses. There was a ton of work just
collecting these things of prints that, never mind having them
board to the evaluated is to to evaluate them. But
at the end of the day we injected his name
into the investigation. I haven't both us saida. Now they
(23:50):
just had to match the fingerprints. Joe says, due to
a charge from a past arrest being dropped that would
prove to be impossible. He taken in a rushed for
primal possession of a zip gun. The significant of the
zip gun was that he would make the guns himself.
A zip gun is a homemade weapon made by using
pipes and other materials. You can find it a hardware store.
(24:13):
This was the same type of gun used in the shootings,
but authorities were unable to make the connection at the time.
In the policy unit, they couldn't put together the gun
properly and it couldn't discharge it, so because the gun
was inoperable, they dropped charges in the book in DA's office.
His fingerprints were taken at that arrest, but because they
(24:35):
dropped the charges, they were sealed, so later on when
we did dec red searched of all the adjusses and
the latent fingerprints from the pocalytta, we couldn't match up
to his fingerprints which could have been on file, but
because the fingerprints are sealed, we never matched it up.
Later on we became aware with at it that we
(24:55):
did identify him. M authorities were so close to catching
(25:19):
the killer. Due to some luck, they would again be
confronted with SATA when an altercation with his sister led
to a three hour shootout in hostage situation. I was
a hosh, just negotiated, I had just finished training, and
I'm sitting in the office and I get a phone
called late morning. I was informed that an individual hot
(25:40):
shot his sister and he was actively engaged in a
shootout with multiple cops. From his appointment on Kicking Avenue
and they needed a Housha negotiator to try to talk
him out. I get there and it is a large
climb scene. He had shouted out with about fifteen cops
and transit cops of train station at the corner. None
(26:04):
of those officers were hit, but he had shot his
sister in the EVNT. The reason he shot his sister
was because she was in the back bedroom of the
apartment with a boyfriend and he didn' improve with a boyfriend.
He thought the boyfriend was deal drugs. He had an
argument with his sister. He probably once shot through the door.
The sister came out and said, no, you're not sure,
what are you doing? And then he shoots his sister
(26:25):
and then we EVNT. She runs out of the apartment
leading and the boyfriend barricade himself in the back bedroom.
Police respond because neighbors called the cops with the sister
bleating in the hallway, and he engages all those officers
from multiple windows. He had eight I'll call and rifles
of buns. There were long barrels of puns. He's shooting
(26:46):
from the back windows, from the front windows at the
cops who are covering the area. So I get there,
that shooting had stopped. Anybody. Service had set me up
behind a barricade, and I have a bull horn on
and I started trying to communicate with him. There was
a ten days degree was a very hot day, sweating
like a dog, and I'm trying to engage from conversation
(27:09):
and all the stone is coming to the window. He's
pointing a large battle rifle at me, but he doesn't
fire at me, and he's not communicating with me. He's
not talking to me. Joe and his squad evacuated the
four story apartment building before entering. We climbed into the
window of the first flour and we climbed up the
four flour and I started talking to him to the doorway.
(27:32):
Now I'm having much better the results speaking to him.
He's actually engaged me in conversation. At about a three
hour negotiation, he finally tells us that he wants to surrender.
We know he had all these scums because he had
fired him out the window. I had emerged Services on
the roof and they lowered a bucket from the roof
(27:52):
to his slunt window and he loads up the bucket,
multiple buckets with zip guns, pipes, bullets and so forth,
But that wasn't all Sada was holding in the apartment.
Joe soon realized that there was a much bigger threat
they were not aware of. Now we believe that we
(28:15):
eliminate the teat and we're going to have him opened
up the door and surrender. And he says to us
to the door, he says, all right, you've got the concert.
What should I do with these bombs? So we said, okay,
hid bombs. So we had the Bottles squad standing by.
They came and they devised us get him out of
the apartment, then we'll make an entry into the apartment
(28:38):
and evaluate the bombs. And we moved the bombs with
this assistance that we made the service. We had him
opened up the door, turn his back to us with
his hands in the air. We handcuffed him. We escort
him out of the apartment, and we moved him to
the seven five. The Bobs squad goes in and they
we cover two pipe bombs that he had made and
one smoke grenade that he had inside the department. He
(29:01):
told us later on he was actually done a graduation
being a serial shooter to Serie Obama. He had actually
built a pipe bomb and tested it on a train
station late at night with nobody around, and it went off.
And you know, so that was in his future plenty
bombs in New York City. I escored him personally out
of the building, bring him to the seven five squad
(29:23):
for the briefing. Sada was in the authorities control. He
was interrogated and eventually confessed to shooting his sister. Sada
signed his confession letter with a familiar symbol from an
earlier Zodiac letter. He had drew an upside down course
(29:44):
on the letters with the numbers seven seven seven, So
they brought the letter to me. They knew I was
on the Zodiac task Force and very famil with the letters.
And as soon as I looked at the letters, I
recognized the handwriting to be the same writer as the
previous letters that was Senter in the good post and
fifteen minutes. So I knew then that we had them
through the handwriting. But I also knew that suspicions are
(30:06):
one thing. You know, ME saying it's the Zodiac isn't
going to suffice. So we had to evaluate the ballistics,
the fingerprints that we had on hand. The DNA DNA
was in its infancy back then, and we had to
interrogate him and we had to do handwriting analysis. The
first thing we did was sending Tommy Moss to mp
D Ballistics play with the zip guns and the pipes
(30:28):
that were taken out of the apartment, and we matched
a couple of shootings from the Zodiac with those zip guns.
Then we prepared the fingerprint from the Larry pa Haim
letter in Center Park and that matched his fingerprints, and
then the DNA matched later on, and the handwriting analysis
was also confirmed by handwriting experts. We had an eight
(30:49):
hour interrogation and then he finally gave it all up.
It was a difficult investigation. I mean even me and
my guys got involved in and we were four watching it.
That we solved it took him shooting his sister. We
were proud that we injected his name into the investigation.
(31:10):
But he never took another arrest where we could use
our singer prints where they would match up. Because he
only had that one arrest with the ziphone. That was
not offerable. And they sealed the record to all the evidence,
including the DNA, the ballistics, the Laking singer prints. Every
name was critical and very important for the city. Was
(31:30):
important because you know what, if we didn't sarve it,
he'd still be out there. He's still be out they
shooting people. He killed three innocent people who are didn't
deserve it, and he armed tremendously. The other five victims,
Diane Balance suffered severe no pain. Webber had difficulty with
his leg. So I mean he was shooting innocent people
for no reason, only because he could. You don't need
(31:52):
people like that walking around New York City, you know.
The New York Zodiac Eddie Sada was brought to is
six years after his first known crime for the victims
of the original Zodiac killings. This justice has yet to
be found. Fifty years later, Zodiologists still travel to the
murder sites each year to remember these victims. You got
(32:18):
you guys. Like the crosses, the one on the LEFTO
courses for for David and it says rest in peace, David,
A f for Arthur Faraday, and then the one on
the right is done in pink for Betty Lou and
it says rest in peace Betty Lou. On the ribbons,
it shows that we really do care that they they
(32:38):
haven't been forgotten, you know, And that's what we want,
you know, something to show that we have not forgotten,
even though it's been fifty years. We will commemorate the
time that they were shot dead for no purpose apparently,
and the perpetrator has still not been identified or brought
to justice. There's a complete seless tragedy. We want to
(33:03):
remember David Faraday and Betty Luke Jensen on this anniversary.
DNA helped the authorities to definitively pin the murders on Zeta.
For many, this technology brings hope that justice will finally
be served for the victims of the original Zodiac. We're
just waiting on at DNA to come back, you know.
(33:24):
I mean, there's been so many suspects over the years.
Everybody looks good on paper at some point, but then
you always find something that just seemed to discount them. Soon.
If it did come back negative, two things, you might
try to try again, which I doubt because layos so
broke they're in with or you know, they would have
(33:49):
said something to somebody. Somebody would have handed to us
that something's wrong. It's either still in the works, which
takes time, as we know, and people need to be
patient on that. Maybe they do have samples that they're
of suspects that they're ready to go with next time
(34:23):
on Monster the Zodiac Killer twenty three and Me is
a consumer genetics testing service, so anybody can order a
test online spit in a tube, but it's quite a
large bit of spit. It takes about thirty minutes to
fill up the whole tube. From a genealogy standpoint, what
you're trying to do is you're trying to find people
that are the same as you for segments of those DNA,
(34:48):
and the more DNA that is the same between people,
the more closely related they are. In the Golden State
Killer case, you're talking about a semen sample the was
left behind it the murder scene. That's a very good
source of DNA, whereas if you had DNA like from
fingernails or under fingernails, that was a higher chance in
(35:11):
a lower risk. And I think this stamp is probably
medium because you never can tell where the stamp has been.
We haven't had any real updates on this case in
many years. Monster the Zodiac Killer is a fifteen episode
(35:32):
podcast produced by iHeart Radio, How Stuff Works and Tenderfoot TV.
Donald Albright and I our executive producers on behalf of
Tenderfoot TV, alongside producers Meredith Stepmon, Mason Lindsay, and Christina Dana.
Jason Hope is executive producer on behalf of How Stuff Works,
along with producers Trevor Young, Miranda Hawkins, ben Kybrick, and
(35:54):
Josh Thane. Scott Benjamin provides additional voice talent. Matt Frederick
is our Hope. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set.
If you haven't already, make sure to check out the
first season of Monster called Atlantic Monster, about the Atlantic
child murders from the late seventies to the early eighties.
Download the ten episode season right now. Have questions or comments,
(36:16):
email us at Monster at how stuff works dot com,
or you can call us at one eight three three
eight five six six six seven. Thanks for listening.
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely
those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast,
and do not necessarily represent those of iHeart Media, Stuff Media,
or its employees. On the fiftieth anniversary of the Zodiacs
first confirmed killings in Benetia, a group of self proclaimed
(00:20):
Zodiologists visited the site on Lake Herman Road. They went
there to pay homage to the victims David Faraday and
Betty lu Jensen. Days earlier, a threat was made to
harm anyone who showed up at the Lake Herman site
on the anniversary. The Zodiologists decided to go anyway, and
we joined them. Yeah, I know there were threats made
(00:44):
for people who came here tonight. What do we have
about people here right now and over the next half hour.
I expect maybe another dozen people are more coming here,
though I know there are other people who would be
here tonight if those threats have not been made, people
who want to be here and remember the anniversary and
(01:05):
remember David and Betty lou N She did nice, yet
Lourest David A M. You're looking at the crosses where
it would be a good place to have them set
for a while. Right now, I came up here. If
(01:26):
I didn't know if anybody we're gonna be here because
that threat about a shooting or something, SAM would drive
off here. Anyway, I'll take my chances. It's really interested
to see a police officer here from the Venetia Police Department.
About twenty people who came over here. There's none of
us who were going to cause any problems. But we
have no idea who else is going to be here
(01:46):
this evening. There will quite likely be a number of
other cars of people that we don't know that it
will show up. I'm Corporal Cruise with the Inanitia Police Department.
We're here because of the fiftie anniversary of the Zodiac killing.
We're just here for extra patrol and just kind of
make sure everyone that comes here wants to be here
(02:07):
and stay safe. What makes she wonders how the Zodiac?
I mean, you hate trail him out here? You find
them by accident? And where was the car park? It
was parked about where the where the taller of the
arrow science right there, headed right towards this way. I
don't know. They show the crime sheet photos, but you
can't in there were the backup facing. I think David
(02:35):
was found this is Tom's territory, but I think he
was found outside the passengers side door because he tried
to get away and she had gotten out and got
she got down here and he got he was killed
right there. It's it's been a real treat to hang
out with other zodiologists and talk about the anniversary. This
(02:58):
being the fiftieth anniversary is kind of sobering time. You know,
fifty years ago today there was a couple who was
holding hands and kissing in the front seat of a
station wagon. But an hour from now, less than an
hour from now, we will commemorate the time that they
were shot dead for no purpose apparently, and the perpetrator
(03:20):
has still not been identified or brought to justice. A
man in a mask robbed, tied, and stabbed them, leaving
them for day. Subjects stated, I want to report a murder,
(03:41):
no a double murder. I did it. A man who
wore an evil style executioner's hood, carried a knife and
gun and intended to use them. They haven't arrested me
because they can't prove it. I'm not damn zodiac. Who
is the zodiac and where is he from? My Heart Radio,
(04:03):
How Stuff Works, and Tenderfoot TV. This is Monster, the
Zodiac Killer. They say imitation is the highest form of flattery,
and if that's true, the Zodiac may have had some admirers.
By now, you've heard about the range and murder weapons
and all the other inconsistencies between the Zodiac killings. In
(04:25):
this episode, we'll see double confronting the unpleasant idea of
a Zodiac copycat. Unspeakable evil is one thing, but consciously
replicating that evil that may be worse. There are people
(04:48):
who are totally wrapped up. They don't celebrate, but they
commemorate every anniversary of these murders. People they never met,
they didn't know. That's Rachel Raskin's Rhian, who you heard
on last week's episode. She's a reporter at the Times
Harold in Valleo, a paper that's been involved with the
case since the very beginning. What's funny is the people
(05:12):
who did know, the people who has happened to don't
do that. I haven't met one that does that. They
may remember it in their head, but they don't go
to the site in the middle of the night. Why
would you have a fan club for something like a
serial killer. I guess it's not unusual. Like Manson, Charles Manson,
he's got followers. Still, I can't explain it. They can't
(05:37):
explain it. I've asked. Rachel says she's heard a lot
of strange stories about the Zodiac. Some people even claim
to have escaped the unknown killer. I've had a couple
of people tell me that they are positive that they
encountered this person and escaped death, and they can't let
it go. It just becomes a part their life, and
(06:01):
some people have becomes more of a part of their
life than other people. But I imagine if you thought
you encountered a serial killer and lived to tell the tale,
it probably sticks with you. After the incident happened with Betty,
(06:24):
you know, of course, everyone's talking about it in Valleo
kind of were a close knit town at that time.
The population wasn't like it is now. This is Lorraine
de Groat. You heard her from an earlier episode when
she remembered losing her childhood friend Betty lu Jensen. Lorraine
believes that she too had a chance encounter with the
Zodiac when her cousin and a few friends decided to
(06:47):
visit the murder scene at Lake Herman Road. This is
her story as a teenager. This one night, my cousin
talked to us all in. We agreed, the four of us, okay,
let's take right out there. And it was kind of late.
It was like tan ten thirty eleven, and my cousin's
driving Henry and I'm behind him, and then Nadine is
(07:09):
passenger and my boyfriend's behind her. We go out there
and it's totally black dark, there's no street lights, you
can't see nothing, and the headlights. There's a guy standing
in the road. So what was so noticeable was he
was wearing this like I want to say it's an
(07:32):
army jacket, but it was big, it was loose, and
it went down to just about probably between his knees
and his thighs. We were focusing and I go, oh,
there's a there's a guy. I'm sitting behind my cousin
and I'm kicking him. I'm going, don't stop, don't stop,
because I'm scared. I didn't even want to be out there,
so I'm saying don't stop, don't stop. So we had
(07:55):
to slow down because the guy wouldn't get out of
the road. So we're slowing down. Nadine rolls the window
down and so does my boyfriend and as we rolled
the window down, my cousin said, can we help you?
What's up? Then the guy leans kind of leans in
towards Nadine looking at us, and he said, I can't
(08:18):
find my girlfriend. We were out on a fishing boat
on Lake Herman. We're going oh and it's eleven at night,
you know, and I'm really kicking my cousin. I'm going go,
go go, because it just didn't sound right. And he said,
if you could just park over here and um help
me find her. Well, that was just totally stupid. It
(08:42):
didn't even make any sense. So then my cousin like
acted like, okay, we'll help you. Of course, there's no phones,
no cell phones, and I think we mentioned something like, well,
where's your car and he said he didn't have one.
So we said, well, we could call the police for you,
and then my cousin just kind of sped off the
(09:04):
minute he the guy stood up, and we were also scared,
and I said, that's Zodiac. I kept saying that is Zodiac.
So we drove that whole road because there's no turning
around to come back so as we're speeding away, about
a mile mile and a half from where we left
him was a car. Was a car on the right
(09:27):
hand side. It was the only car during our whole
speeding venture to get off that road. My guess is
it had to have been his car, because there was
Like I said, there was no houses, there was no
that was his car. We drove that road and it
comes straight into Benicia. So we go straight up to
the police station. We told him the story. There's a
(09:49):
guy out there, we just ran into him. He said
his girlfriend, he lost her. And then I remember I
told the officer I was saying, I think that was Zodiac.
He said, well, we're gonna go check that out. We
will drive out there. And then I said, can I
call you back tomorrow so you can tell me if
they found his girlfriend. When I called the police station
(10:13):
the next day, of course, my curiosity is just off
the chart. So I said, what happened? And he said,
we went out there, and he goes, there was nothing
out there, there was no car. I think he was
gonna kill whoever was in the car, but there was
four of us. That's what I think. I'm so consumed
(10:37):
to this day about Zodiac until the day I die.
I believe that was Zodiac. Lorraine said it was curiosity
(11:02):
that led her and her friends down Lake Herman Road
that night. In five decades later, Lorraine's fascination with the
Zodiac continues. But what can happen when someone's fascination with
a killer becomes an obsession and even an opportunity to
pick up where a killer left off. This happened in
the late nineteen eighties when another Zodiac killer showed up
(11:26):
in New York City. In the area that was involved,
basically East New York Brooklyn. At the time, it was
like the motor capital of the world. It was the
most violent precinct in New York City. It still is,
but back then it was really, really terrible. We were
averaging over a hundred homicides plus an additional five hundred
montreto shootings within five square miles. So it was a
(11:47):
very hectic time for the police and the detectives. And
in the midst of all this violence was an emerging
serial killer who was calling himself to Zodiac. My name
is Joseph Herbert. I'm a deputy chief in a New
York City police department. I recently retired and my final
(12:08):
position was to commanding of the Joint TOEWS On Test Force.
Deputy Chief Joe Herbert played a key role in the
Zodiac case, which took place in New York City. On
November the NYPD received an unusual letter. It stated that
one person for each of the twelve zodiac signs would
be killed. Authorities believed it was a hoax and nothing
(12:31):
to be alarmed about, and there was no reason to
follow up. The first letter came into the Semi five precinct,
and that letter he was taken credit for a shooting
that we never identified. They didn't marry it up to
any actual shooting. It had the circle, it had rambling writing,
and it wasn't taken seriously. I think it ended up
(12:52):
into somebody's lacker. Authorities would soon realize the threats were
no joke. His first him was a handicapped individual who
was returning home from work late at night. His name
was Mario Roscoe. He was walking approaching Atlantic Avenue coming
home from the train and he was approached from the
(13:12):
rear and shot once in the back by an individual
who had a vandanna over his face and did not
rob him, did not saying they just shot him and
ran away. Three weeks later, the second victim, who was
also coming home from the subway station. The name was
Herman Montenegro. He was a little intoxicated. He was out
(13:36):
partying and he's coming home from the subway and he
gets approached from the rear again and he shot in
the back for no reason, although in his case he
believed that his passport was taken from him. With that
being said, there was no letters left at that and
there was no connection by the police that these two
(13:57):
incidents were connected, and they were investigated as random shootings
and they want some The first two victims of the
unknown shooter had survived, the victim of the third attack
would not be so lucky. The next shooting was Joseph Proachy.
He was an elderly male. We used to walk around
(14:17):
the East New York section of Brooklyn to collect bottles
and cans for the deposit. He was very friendly with
people in the community. One night, he's returning home from
collecting bottles and cans and he's approached from the rear
as he's entering his building and he shot once in
the back. Also, the difference was at this scene the
(14:39):
shooter left a note, and he weighed the note down
with three stones, which could indicate that he might have
left notes at the prior incidents and they might have
blown away in the wind, but you know well uncertain
of that. So anyway, he leaves a note at the
proachy scene, and in the note he takes credit for
three shootings, and he articulates and the letters the proper
(15:03):
zodiac sign of each victim. The killer was apparently selecting
victims based on their birthday the New York Zodiac. Then
sent letters to the New York Post in sixty minutes.
These letters were studied for DNA and latent fingerprints. Please
ramp up heavily. They had detected a couple of patents.
(15:24):
One pattern was the incidents occurred in multiples of twenty
one days. The first attack occurred on March, then twenty
one days later there was a second attack, and then
sixty three days later was the Dot shooting. So they
saw it that it was in multiples. On the twenty
(15:44):
one day at the shooting, they flooded the area incredibly
like a massive presence of undercovers, uniforms, detectives. Everything they
could do and what happened is the individual does strike,
but he doesn't strike in East New York section of Brooklyn.
He took the train into Manhattan and he should Labby Pawham,
(16:05):
who was sleeping on a park bench in Central Park
at that scene. He leaves another note and was also
weighed down by a stone with the appropriate zodiac sign
of Labby Paham, now taking credit for four shootings with
the appropriate zodiac signs of all four victims. Now that
letter was very important. Everybody was aware of what was
(16:26):
going on in Brooklyn. So when they came up upon
a shooting in Central Park in Manhattan and they recovered
the letter, the climb scene was pristine, and they were
able to recover a fingerprint from that letter, which were
about to be very important later on in the investigation.
This story may be starting to sound familiar. A string
(16:47):
of letters taunting the police hopes that a fingerprint would
help catch the killer. The killer in New York was
following in the footsteps of the Zodiac. When let his
first came in, he actually claimed that he was one
and the same as the Zodiac killer. He actually jew
a sketch of the California Zodiac, wearing a hood on
one of his letters and he said to me in
(17:08):
the park. So, you know, we had no idea, you know,
if it was the same individual the fingerprint that we
had from the PAM letter, they sent it to the
San Francisco dohities and was not a match too to
that letter. The killer was still on the loose and
authorities were trying to find any leads that would put
the city's fear at ease. There was a lot of
(17:31):
havoc and a lot of chaos in the city at
the time because the Post was getting the letters and
they were producing headlines, and there was putting a lot
of fear into the city. So anybody who asked anybody
for their birthdays in a in a random conversation, people
would panic and they would call the cops. So when
Mr Piam got shot in Central Park, he recovered and
(17:52):
they interviewed him and he says, a couple of days
before the shooting, he was sitting on a park bench
in Central Park and an individual he was talking and
the birthdays came up. A composite sketch was made of
the man who spoke with Parum about birthdays just days
before the shooting. So that was the basis of that sketch.
(18:13):
They actually ended the investigation extensively by putting that sketch out.
Took us in a long direction for a very long time.
When you put out a sketch, you're going to get
a lot of response. Make sure that you're putting a
sketch out of someone who you have a witness scene
doing the climb. It was a male black initially, and
the Zodiac was actually a much in a malismanic just
(18:37):
like the original Zodiac. The media played a key role
in this case, and not one that was always helpful.
After the press leaks that a fingerprint had been taken
from one of the letters, the New York Zodiac fell silent.
They wouldn't hear from him again until two years later
on August. The killer struck again, but Sastafante was the
(19:01):
only one that was a little bit different than the others.
He approached her in daylight. I was she exited a bus.
She was apparently lost in the book area, and he
approached her and entices to the golopment to the plot
with him by giving her cigarettes. She had psychological issues
and he took advantage of her, and he goes so
(19:21):
we allays does a look part of the park and
the attacks he saves a one hundred times, killing her.
Three more attacks would take place, all within close range
of Highland Park, which borders between Brooklyn and Queens. James
Webber and John Diacon were both shot and wounded in
June and July. Another near fatal shooting would occur that October,
(19:47):
again in Highland Park, when Diane Ballard was shot in
the neck. She survived but was left paralyzed. The only
one that was able to describe the pip was Dianne
Ballad and that was the assis of the male of
Spanic with the mus dish and the hat. So she
was the one that kind of took us from the
heavyset mail black sketch to a male Spanic sketch. The
(20:12):
Zodiac had succeeded in putting fear into the citizens of
New York. The NYPD began to ramp up in reaction
to the killings, even forming a task force specifically for
the case. It was the biggest man hunt in New
York since the Son of Sam killings in six It
was abouty serious case. The NYPD took a lot of interest,
(20:32):
a lot of expense. They were literally being embabrassed because
every time you said the lettos going headlines at the
New York Post and all the other those papers. But
in the letters, he was actually twenty in the NYPD
at one point, zodiac the number of his victims it
might have been nine and n YPD zero. Looking for
(20:53):
any possible leads in this case, investigators in the media,
we're trying to make a deeper connection between the shootings
and the astrological calendar. A lot of people dropped dimes,
a lot of people who contacted us. We would contacted
from all over the world, Belgium, India, Pakistan, people who
were interested in the zodiac, and they studied the zodiac
(21:14):
and they were given us ideas. I'm an investigator based
all my conclusions on evidence, so I didn't really like
get involved with the zodiac angle of it. I concentrated
on the finger prints. Joe maintains that ultimately good police
work and logic helped bring this killer to justice. By
tracking the locations of the shootings, Joe and his squad
(21:37):
were able to hone in on some locations where the
shooter was operating the monetary. Earlier letters, he describes an
intersection in eastern oak Brooklyn, Elbert Lane and Jamaica Avenue.
There's an l elevated train station. Along Jamaica Avenue, you
have Frankman Kay Lane, which is a large public high
(21:58):
school and as a large playing field, and around the
playing field you have high benches, you know, for people
to sit and watch the games. He would follow people
from the train station. It was an exit at that intersection. Also,
we figured he was concealing himself up on the stands
and then he would come down and follow the people
(22:19):
to wherever they went and wait for his prime moment
to shoot them when no audi else was around. Remembers
his first comfort zone. The second comfort zone was all
in Highland Park. Now at Highland Park, there was a
large reservoir on top of the park. Around the reservoir,
it was a perch where he had the ability to
walk around and look for victims. Once he identified his
(22:43):
victims from about the top of the reservoir area, he
would come down the hill and strike his victims were
walking innocently in the park. We identified both those comfort zones.
We drew out a map and we went a mile east,
a mile west of north, and a mile south of
those comfort zones, so we had probably like you know,
(23:04):
like a two or three square mile area. We ran
every address that were in the complience of that map,
and then we searched about databases for people who had
criminal histories in those addresses, came up with about names.
I didn't really have a lot of faith in the
computers at that time, so we submitted for manual latent
(23:26):
fingerprint evaluation all the people that had criminal histories in
those forty addresses. There was a ton of work just
collecting these things of prints that, never mind having them
board to the evaluated is to to evaluate them. But
at the end of the day we injected his name
into the investigation. I haven't both us saida. Now they
(23:50):
just had to match the fingerprints. Joe says, due to
a charge from a past arrest being dropped that would
prove to be impossible. He taken in a rushed for
primal possession of a zip gun. The significant of the
zip gun was that he would make the guns himself.
A zip gun is a homemade weapon made by using
pipes and other materials. You can find it a hardware store.
(24:13):
This was the same type of gun used in the shootings,
but authorities were unable to make the connection at the time.
In the policy unit, they couldn't put together the gun
properly and it couldn't discharge it, so because the gun
was inoperable, they dropped charges in the book in DA's office.
His fingerprints were taken at that arrest, but because they
(24:35):
dropped the charges, they were sealed, so later on when
we did dec red searched of all the adjusses and
the latent fingerprints from the pocalytta, we couldn't match up
to his fingerprints which could have been on file, but
because the fingerprints are sealed, we never matched it up.
Later on we became aware with at it that we
(24:55):
did identify him. M authorities were so close to catching
(25:19):
the killer. Due to some luck, they would again be
confronted with SATA when an altercation with his sister led
to a three hour shootout in hostage situation. I was
a hosh, just negotiated, I had just finished training, and
I'm sitting in the office and I get a phone
called late morning. I was informed that an individual hot
(25:40):
shot his sister and he was actively engaged in a
shootout with multiple cops. From his appointment on Kicking Avenue
and they needed a Housha negotiator to try to talk
him out. I get there and it is a large
climb scene. He had shouted out with about fifteen cops
and transit cops of train station at the corner. None
(26:04):
of those officers were hit, but he had shot his
sister in the EVNT. The reason he shot his sister
was because she was in the back bedroom of the
apartment with a boyfriend and he didn' improve with a boyfriend.
He thought the boyfriend was deal drugs. He had an
argument with his sister. He probably once shot through the door.
The sister came out and said, no, you're not sure,
what are you doing? And then he shoots his sister
(26:25):
and then we EVNT. She runs out of the apartment
leading and the boyfriend barricade himself in the back bedroom.
Police respond because neighbors called the cops with the sister
bleating in the hallway, and he engages all those officers
from multiple windows. He had eight I'll call and rifles
of buns. There were long barrels of puns. He's shooting
(26:46):
from the back windows, from the front windows at the
cops who are covering the area. So I get there,
that shooting had stopped. Anybody. Service had set me up
behind a barricade, and I have a bull horn on
and I started trying to communicate with him. There was
a ten days degree was a very hot day, sweating
like a dog, and I'm trying to engage from conversation
(27:09):
and all the stone is coming to the window. He's
pointing a large battle rifle at me, but he doesn't
fire at me, and he's not communicating with me. He's
not talking to me. Joe and his squad evacuated the
four story apartment building before entering. We climbed into the
window of the first flour and we climbed up the
four flour and I started talking to him to the doorway.
(27:32):
Now I'm having much better the results speaking to him.
He's actually engaged me in conversation. At about a three
hour negotiation, he finally tells us that he wants to surrender.
We know he had all these scums because he had
fired him out the window. I had emerged Services on
the roof and they lowered a bucket from the roof
(27:52):
to his slunt window and he loads up the bucket,
multiple buckets with zip guns, pipes, bullets and so forth,
But that wasn't all Sada was holding in the apartment.
Joe soon realized that there was a much bigger threat
they were not aware of. Now we believe that we
(28:15):
eliminate the teat and we're going to have him opened
up the door and surrender. And he says to us
to the door, he says, all right, you've got the concert.
What should I do with these bombs? So we said, okay,
hid bombs. So we had the Bottles squad standing by.
They came and they devised us get him out of
the apartment, then we'll make an entry into the apartment
(28:38):
and evaluate the bombs. And we moved the bombs with
this assistance that we made the service. We had him
opened up the door, turn his back to us with
his hands in the air. We handcuffed him. We escort
him out of the apartment, and we moved him to
the seven five. The Bobs squad goes in and they
we cover two pipe bombs that he had made and
one smoke grenade that he had inside the department. He
(29:01):
told us later on he was actually done a graduation
being a serial shooter to Serie Obama. He had actually
built a pipe bomb and tested it on a train
station late at night with nobody around, and it went off.
And you know, so that was in his future plenty
bombs in New York City. I escored him personally out
of the building, bring him to the seven five squad
(29:23):
for the briefing. Sada was in the authorities control. He
was interrogated and eventually confessed to shooting his sister. Sada
signed his confession letter with a familiar symbol from an
earlier Zodiac letter. He had drew an upside down course
(29:44):
on the letters with the numbers seven seven seven, So
they brought the letter to me. They knew I was
on the Zodiac task Force and very famil with the letters.
And as soon as I looked at the letters, I
recognized the handwriting to be the same writer as the
previous letters that was Senter in the good post and
fifteen minutes. So I knew then that we had them
through the handwriting. But I also knew that suspicions are
(30:06):
one thing. You know, ME saying it's the Zodiac isn't
going to suffice. So we had to evaluate the ballistics,
the fingerprints that we had on hand. The DNA DNA
was in its infancy back then, and we had to
interrogate him and we had to do handwriting analysis. The
first thing we did was sending Tommy Moss to mp
D Ballistics play with the zip guns and the pipes
(30:28):
that were taken out of the apartment, and we matched
a couple of shootings from the Zodiac with those zip guns.
Then we prepared the fingerprint from the Larry pa Haim
letter in Center Park and that matched his fingerprints, and
then the DNA matched later on, and the handwriting analysis
was also confirmed by handwriting experts. We had an eight
(30:49):
hour interrogation and then he finally gave it all up.
It was a difficult investigation. I mean even me and
my guys got involved in and we were four watching it.
That we solved it took him shooting his sister. We
were proud that we injected his name into the investigation.
(31:10):
But he never took another arrest where we could use
our singer prints where they would match up. Because he
only had that one arrest with the ziphone. That was
not offerable. And they sealed the record to all the evidence,
including the DNA, the ballistics, the Laking singer prints. Every
name was critical and very important for the city. Was
(31:30):
important because you know what, if we didn't sarve it,
he'd still be out there. He's still be out they
shooting people. He killed three innocent people who are didn't
deserve it, and he armed tremendously. The other five victims,
Diane Balance suffered severe no pain. Webber had difficulty with
his leg. So I mean he was shooting innocent people
for no reason, only because he could. You don't need
(31:52):
people like that walking around New York City, you know.
The New York Zodiac Eddie Sada was brought to is
six years after his first known crime for the victims
of the original Zodiac killings. This justice has yet to
be found. Fifty years later, Zodiologists still travel to the
murder sites each year to remember these victims. You got
(32:18):
you guys. Like the crosses, the one on the LEFTO
courses for for David and it says rest in peace, David,
A f for Arthur Faraday, and then the one on
the right is done in pink for Betty Lou and
it says rest in peace Betty Lou. On the ribbons,
it shows that we really do care that they they
(32:38):
haven't been forgotten, you know, And that's what we want,
you know, something to show that we have not forgotten,
even though it's been fifty years. We will commemorate the
time that they were shot dead for no purpose apparently,
and the perpetrator has still not been identified or brought
to justice. There's a complete seless tragedy. We want to
(33:03):
remember David Faraday and Betty Luke Jensen on this anniversary.
DNA helped the authorities to definitively pin the murders on Zeta.
For many, this technology brings hope that justice will finally
be served for the victims of the original Zodiac. We're
just waiting on at DNA to come back, you know.
(33:24):
I mean, there's been so many suspects over the years.
Everybody looks good on paper at some point, but then
you always find something that just seemed to discount them. Soon.
If it did come back negative, two things, you might
try to try again, which I doubt because layos so
broke they're in with or you know, they would have
(33:49):
said something to somebody. Somebody would have handed to us
that something's wrong. It's either still in the works, which
takes time, as we know, and people need to be
patient on that. Maybe they do have samples that they're
of suspects that they're ready to go with next time
(34:23):
on Monster the Zodiac Killer twenty three and Me is
a consumer genetics testing service, so anybody can order a
test online spit in a tube, but it's quite a
large bit of spit. It takes about thirty minutes to
fill up the whole tube. From a genealogy standpoint, what
you're trying to do is you're trying to find people
that are the same as you for segments of those DNA,
(34:48):
and the more DNA that is the same between people,
the more closely related they are. In the Golden State
Killer case, you're talking about a semen sample the was
left behind it the murder scene. That's a very good
source of DNA, whereas if you had DNA like from
fingernails or under fingernails, that was a higher chance in
(35:11):
a lower risk. And I think this stamp is probably
medium because you never can tell where the stamp has been.
We haven't had any real updates on this case in
many years. Monster the Zodiac Killer is a fifteen episode
(35:32):
podcast produced by iHeart Radio, How Stuff Works and Tenderfoot TV.
Donald Albright and I our executive producers on behalf of
Tenderfoot TV, alongside producers Meredith Stepmon, Mason Lindsay, and Christina Dana.
Jason Hope is executive producer on behalf of How Stuff Works,
along with producers Trevor Young, Miranda Hawkins, ben Kybrick, and
(35:54):
Josh Thane. Scott Benjamin provides additional voice talent. Matt Frederick
is our Hope. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set.
If you haven't already, make sure to check out the
first season of Monster called Atlantic Monster, about the Atlantic
child murders from the late seventies to the early eighties.
Download the ten episode season right now. Have questions or comments,
(36:16):
email us at Monster at how stuff works dot com,
or you can call us at one eight three three
eight five six six six seven. Thanks for listening.
Monster: The Zodiac Killer News
Hosts And Creators
Payne Lindsey
Matt Frederick
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