Film Release Special: Dan Bush and April Billingsley on The Dark Red

This week regular guest Dan Bush joins his lead actor April Billingsley to discuss the perils of making their independent horror mystery, The Dark Red. You'll also hear a great conversation about the nuts and bolts of acting and directing.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, everybody,

(00:30):
welcome to Movie Crush Friday Edition. This is a special
edition everyone because one of your favorite recurring guests, Mr
Dan Bush, filmmakers here say hello, Dan, Hello. And we
also have another person in here with Dan, April Billingsley,
say hello. And they are in here together because I
know we've talked about it on Dan's previous episodes, but

(00:50):
they have a film debuting today today in podcast time,
we're recording this a couple of weeks out, but your film,
The Dark Red is premiering and is available as of
today March six. Before we get going, where can everyone
see this just so everyone knows, Yeah, absolutely so if

(01:10):
you're yeah, it will have just premiered at the Women
in Horror Film Festival in podcast time. That's actually tonight, right, No,
that's more night to mor night. Sorry, um no, but
it's uh, it's in theater's mark March six. It's you
can see it at the Night Hawk in Brooklyn, the
Gateway in Columbus Music Box, which is a terrific theater

(01:31):
in Chicago, and here in Atlanta at the Plaza Theater.
And it's it's it's got a week long run, so
unless it just explodes and then they'll just keep it
in the theater and you know, keep making money. And
it's also on it Happened to Titanic, that movie played forever.
Let me see here. Um it's you know, all the
all the all the digital outlets like Apple, TV, iTunes,

(01:54):
Google Play, fan Dango, now, Um, Amazon, Um, micros offt Movies, PlayStation,
Vimeo on demand and Voodoo all right, so everywhere everywhere,
and if you don't have any of those, there's probably
one dude out there. It's like, is it on gigabox?
And that's just and that's us. So it's going to

(02:14):
be released, uh in Europe and in other territories closer
to stay Alright, great, well, we're gonna talk about The
Dark Red more specifically in the second part of this episode.
But since many people have not seen that yet, obviously,
I figured we'd dive in. Since we have an actor
and a director and writer and editor filmmaker here, people

(02:35):
love to hear this insider stuff. So April, we'll start
with you because Dan has been in here, bunch. What
is your background? Where you where are you from? I'm
from Atlanta, really Yeah, born craz in Duluth, outside of
the city. That's where my mom lives. I went to
school at Florida State and uh then lived in l
A for a little while. At Did you study acting

(02:59):
and where did your journey start with acting? Uh? So,
I think I took my first acting class at about
five years old and he called me a little drill
sergeant when Yeah, it was very loud. It's good for
the stage. I I book my first paid job when

(03:19):
I was eight. Yeah, I was. I was Pearl in
the Scarlet Letter at the fourteen Street Playhouse in downtown
at l Yeah, and it's amazing. Yeah. So, and I
just kept taking acting classes, but I didn't really do
anything professionally professionally after that until I turned you know,
until I was like legal, right, drive yourself, drive myself? Ye?

(03:42):
What as an actor? Um? Well, I guess who were
when you were a kid. Who were some of your
early like early favorite movies, early influences. Uh, Forrest Gump
probably and Big Fish. Big Fish loved those movies. Yeah,
I don't know. John August, Yeah, he was one of

(04:03):
my favorite writers. I don't feel like he's around as
much anymore. And Dan, you can say stuff too. Okay,
you don't have to sit there quietly. Uh yeah, big fish,
that was a good one. What about was acting something
that I mean, obviously you wanted to do it when
you were a kid because you were doing it, But
did you think you could do that as a career. Yeah?

(04:25):
I thought I could do anything. That's great. I had
a lot of confidence as a kid, you know, and
then it slowly gets beat out of you and then
you're like, no, hard work work. Um. But the reason
I wanted to become an actor, I think just sort
of it wasn't always sort of in me as I
I never I was always felt a little bit trapped
by the fact that I was only me that and

(04:48):
it might sound kind of weird, but only child or no, no,
only only one person that I couldn't see that I
couldn't live other lives. I wanted to be able to
see life and experience and understand it from other people's perspectives.
And so that's what When did you have that thought?
That's a really advanced thought, isn't it to like, you know,

(05:10):
that's actually my first memory that I have is wondering,
is like this realization that I could only be me, Oh,
that's so cool. Yeah, And and so I think it
became kind of like a ingrained in who I am
that I really wanted to understand and and live other perspectives. Wow,
so you could there were two paths. You could be
an actor or a sociopath. That's a that's a great answer.

(05:37):
I don't think I've ever heard that perspective. But it
makes a lot of sense. Um, I bet it scratches
that itch of um stepping outside of yourself for a bit.
It does, and it doesn't because you know, when you
first get into acting, I think a lot of new
actors think of it this way is it's a way
to step outside of yourself. But the truth is is

(05:58):
once you really understand and it, you have to completely
accept yourself and embrace all different sides of yourself to
really succeed at acting. And so it's kind of it's
kind of a double edged sword in that way that
you don't get to just go live another life. You
have to you have to like really live that makes

(06:23):
sense and really experience and and accept who you are.
In order to do that, we always talked about yourself
in a different set of circumstances. So the key is
to study the circumstances as opposed to like becoming I'm
just going to become Hamlet and be this, you know,
this prince of Denmark or whatever from whatever century. Instead

(06:43):
you're like, okay, I just saw my father on the roof.
This is telling me to invention. What does that mean
for me? And if you can internalize that as me,
then yeah, It's like if it was me living in
this time, how would I react. It's like people always
make fun of you know what they say the eighteenth
century women who like move their hands funny, But it's

(07:04):
because they had lots and lots of fabric, right, and
they had these very fancy fabric coming off of their risks,
and they it's just a natural way to not that
they would move in order to not get that dirty.
You know. It's just everybody is a human and you
have to embrace your humanity to to understand other other

(07:27):
aspects of humanity. What kind of training did you do formally? Um,
I've taken acting classes from literally anybody and everybody I
possibly could my whole life, and and uh studied with
I studied Meisner. I studied acting in school for a
little while. I UM, I studied with several at several

(07:49):
different places in l A. And I'm not really for
I mean, I could tell you I studied Acting Center.
It's one of my favorite places because it was very
much an improv based like imagination technique. UM study with
Ceremonial here in town. I studied with umh Dan also
study with them Melo, Rob Mellow Meisner here in town.

(08:10):
And talk about Meisner for the uninitiated, What is that
method and technique? Uh So, the basis of Meisner is
that you're getting rid of worrying about text of what
you have to say, and you're kind of just so
you do a lot of what's called repetition, so you're

(08:32):
not worried about what you're saying. You're just trying to
be in the moment and feel what you feel. And
it's sort of adored towards exploring how to get to
these different states of being okay. Is that sort of
is that when I hear actors say, UM know the
line so well that you forget about them and then

(08:52):
you can just be in the moment or is that
just more of a nuts and bolts technique. I think
that's more of like an wait are you talking about
miser being a nuts and bolts technique, or the knowing
your line so well that you can just sort of
forget about it. You know, It's funny because the way
that I approach acting is actually not thinking. I don't

(09:13):
typically approach acting by knowing my line so well that
I can forget about them. My approach acting by understanding
what's behind the lines so well that I don't even
barely have to memorize the lines. Interesting because I understand
because you Yeah, because if you think about it, when
when I'm talking to you right now or when you're talking,
you're not thinking about the words you're going to say,

(09:36):
You're you have an intention and then the words come out,
and I think, in the best acting it it works
the same way. Oh yeah, sure, Uh what about what
is your process like when you get a script, like
start from the beginning? Um, so I'll just start with
the The end goal is to really understand who this
person is in between the scenes, right who they are

(10:00):
as a as a human being, as a full person. Um.
But just starting with a script like say it was
an audition, Um, I kind of pick it apart, Like
I start the beginning and I don't make any assumptions,
and I just try to figure out what are the facts.
I think that's a that's a possible common mistake a

(10:20):
lot of new actors make is that they get really
creative before they figure out what the facts of the
script are interesting. So you can't. You can It's it's
a very creative, expressive art form, but it doesn't work
if you don't honor the script, if you don't honor
the truth of the script. So it's like, if you
have a sister that just died, you don't go, I'm

(10:42):
gonna pretend that I hate that sister who just died.
You know. You go, No, that's there for a reason,
and I can't I you know, I can't ignore that.
So you go, Okay, these are the facts. And then
I might take, uh, say I refer to a memory
in the in that in the script saying my character

(11:03):
refers to a memory. Uh. Next step, after you kind
of understand what's happening in the script of all the
different characters is to go into your specific character and go,
what are my relationship to these different things? Like I
have a memory, I'm going to take time to like
actually imagine it. I'm going to sit down, close my eyes.
And that's the fun part for me is I'm going

(11:23):
to make all of that real specific, so that then
later when I refer to that memory, it's like that
You've made this connection in your brain and so it
it becomes more specific without you having to do anything
later because you did the work of imagining it. Yeah.
So what what about literal um? I mean, how much

(11:44):
do you make notes and scripts and the margins or
is it more internal? Uh? It really depends on the script.
But um, at this point in my process, I'd say
it's it's mostly mostly internal for me. So, uh, knowing
who this person is as a real human being because
what you said really spoke to me as far as

(12:06):
that goes. It's a person, a human isn't there circumstance
on any given day, you know, we all have these big,
rich lives, and a movie can take place in real
time over two hours of a person's life, and that
is not who they are. Who they are is is
what dictates how they react to any given set of circumstances. Right,

(12:28):
And then it's also just to not leave a giant
piece out for any actors listening to this is it's
about the relationships too. So, um, A big important thing
about acting is that it's you're always trying to communicate
something you're not ever just it's rare that you're talking
to yourself, and even if you are, it's because you're
working through something. But so knowing how you relate to

(12:51):
the different people is very important. We become very different people,
you know, talking to somebody who's being very belligerent to
us versus talking to our best friend, right, you know, yeah,
So what it's what are what challenges you the most
as an actor? M hmm. I mean that could be

(13:14):
just industry stuff or or what's the toughest literal toughest
part for you, you know, in the process. Actually, so
I would say this, I'd say it's it's the roller
coaster of the of the career. It's it's that, Um,
it's very up and down, and I think it's very

(13:35):
important and a lot of a lot of creatives probably
deal with this is just this idea of remembering your
worth in between that, um, not letting yourself go too
low in the lows, not letting yourself get too high
in the highs. Right, I think it's really important to
build a life outside of of your acting or your work,

(13:56):
that you're happy and no matter. Yeah, I think that's
great advice. That's great advice for any glad I heard
that today. It's a good reminder well, especially like you said,
for anyone to create a field where you're especially freelancers
who go job the job. If you if you, if
you don't get that part, that can't wreck your life,
right even you know for a week. And I've seen

(14:20):
so many people just like go oh and I've done it.
Myself was like, oh I suck now, I'm worthless. I
didn't get that part. I must you know, like they
they really will fall into a depression about that. And
the truth you have to remember it's like your skill
is the same. Yeah, you have to you have to
have that confidence from within. You can't get it from without.

(14:41):
And I think that is definitely the biggest big struggle
for for me and I know for probably a lot
of people. Yeah. And I think the thing too that
actors know and have to probably constantly remind themselves and
you as someone who does casting, there are so many
things that go into casting a role that have nothing
to do with how talented you are or how good
you're reading was in an audition. Um, especially when it

(15:05):
comes to like you know, TV commercials and stuff like that,
because they have such specific criteria that they have to
check off. Oh yeah, exactly. UM. I love it when
when I'm in an audition, cast a casting session, and
and somebody comes in and they are so completely compelling

(15:26):
within an of themselves, so confident in their own inadequacies,
in their own flaws, and that that's all on display,
so that they're just really allowing their vulnerability to come
out in such a way that I start to change
the way I think about the character that I'm casting
interesting and like maybe this person could be right, yeah,
like maybe my imagination of the character. So like actor
as a director, I would say, actors hold the key

(15:48):
to unlock the script, so I know what I want
from the script. I think I understand the mechanics, and
I have a bird's eye view of like this thing
is really about this, and these are the directions that
we want to go in, But I don't really understand
completely until I get until I see the actors. And
it's not just these particular actors, and there's specificity that
they're bringing and the choices they've made. It's the relationship

(16:10):
between the two. So I put April in the room
with an actor of one caliber or you know, one
kind of guy, or you know another actor, and then
I put him her in the room with a different
actor or actress and it's going to change the scene
entirely the way they react. And so the relationship becomes
something that unlocks what the script is about, and it

(16:31):
becomes personal. And that's that's for me. That's the that's
the boat that sails, you know, that's that's the trend
that leaves the station for for me to understand what
the hell I'm doing. And it's not until I see that.
Sometimes I'm really nervous before I show up on set,
and as soon as I see them start to work,
I'm like, oh, right, this is what we're doing. And
acting we talk about bringing yourself to a role because

(16:52):
no one is you, that you have to bring your
own uniqueness to it. And to bring it back full
circle to me saying, oh, I wanted to understand these
other perspectives, but to do that, you have to fully
embrace yourself. And and that is that's the one thing
that it's so important for I think actors, artists to
understand is that no one else is you, and and

(17:17):
everybody thinks they need to add on or do something extra,
and it's like people, really, it's kind of like but
Dan was saying, they just want to see you in
a lot of ways, it's just do less, just be.
I mean, I know that sounds cliche, but it's true.
You're interesting enough without having to try to be interesting,
and if you can allow that, you're gonna be even

(17:38):
more fascinating to watch. You know, yeah, something you just
said to I've never directed, but I've written a bunch
of scripts. And when you're writing, you always you know,
and I assume that people right this way like I do.
But you're you're literally playing the movie out in your head,
especially when you're rereading your visualizing it. How it goes
in your head, How what scentage of that ends up

(18:01):
like that? Or is it like man that is gone
and you end up with something else When you're on
the day and everyone else is collaborating, I haven't had
the luxury of having such a massive budget that I
can dictate that I can enforce exactly what what I
had in my mind, So I have there's something about
being open to that though, right, I mean, that's the

(18:21):
whole thing, and my my, what I found is that
the limitations make me stronger. So what I found is
that the best thing I can do is come up
with my come up with a you know, my my
plan A and I shot a shot list and do
your thing. I pre do the previous in my mind,
and I imagine every shot in the movie and the mechanics,
I know how it's going to be edited, and have
a plan, and I go in and I've I've done

(18:43):
that shot list probably two times at least before I
go into the set. But when I get there, like
you know, it's gonna fall apart. It might be raining,
we might lose a location I'm if I'm not, and
the actors might come up with something different that I
didn't expect. And if I'm not open to what actually
happening in the moment, then I'm gonna lose by striving

(19:05):
to get something that that I can't necessarily control. Instead,
if I can be spontaneous and live and capture what's
cool that's happening in this moment, even if it's not
what I expected, it's gonna make that's that's your movie.
That's the stuff that's gonna make your movie your movie.
So you know, I try really hard as much as
as much as I'm like, because I came from a
visual background where I was very much about the cinematography.

(19:29):
And then at some point in college, I was like,
you know, what most directors don't have is an understanding
of acting. And I was like, you know, everybody wants
everybody wants to get all the cool Yeah, So so
I started acting. I like literally went and did a
play just so that I could figure out what the hell,
how to how to even communicate that or what that? Good?
I think I was? Yeah, I was good. It was better.

(19:51):
I was better on stage than I was in front
because I can't just turn it on. But if I
have a whole you know, play to work through and
live in. Mm hmm. But I can't just turn it
on and turn it off. I don't know how you
guess that's that's just that's a trigger that I've never
been able. That's a craft that I just haven't. I mean,
I have to say that your understanding and acting and

(20:11):
taking the time really makes you, in my experience, a
really wonderful director to work and it makes it as
an actor. It's like I really it allows an actor
to really trust you, to know to know that you
know that you're not going to that you're going to
do everything in your power to make sure that what
we get is is the best it can be performance wise.

(20:35):
And that's that trust is so key. Yeah, we have
to trust each other. So I just got more validation.
You give me validation as far as turning it on
and off. Man, I don't know. This is a two

(20:57):
part question, but um, what is it like for you
when you dan when you're how tough is it when
you're not getting what you want slash really need? And
if the actor has a different idea. And I'm sure
most of the time it can be great, but sometimes
there's gotta be situations you're like, no, no, no, that's
that's not the right thing, Like how do you handle

(21:17):
that with that and still maintaining their competence? I think
the goal And I've had situations where an actor is
going for something or they're not understanding what I'm asking
them for and we've literally had to stop shoot the
shoot and go and talk about it. Because I've had
some some actors that are so strong willed and in
their craft and I know what I want. That's the

(21:38):
worst case scenario, because what it's never good to have
a shoot grind to a halt, but much less when
you're indie filmmaking and it's the worst. It's the worst guy,
damn thing in the world. But I mean it's literally
in the cruise like you're you're hashing it out with
this actor now man, while the crew sitting picking their noses,
and you're like, Okay, we're losing. We're not gonna make
our day. Fifteen minutes is a big deal. Um. But

(21:59):
at the same time time you have to figure it
out and you have to do it quick. And so
in the best case scenario, what you're gonna do is
you're gonna have time beforehand to work with the actors
so that you both can come to understand the truth.
And you do that by questioning each other and you say, okay, well,
why why are you saying this? What's the point of this?
What do you And you've worked towards the point where
you start to figure out what the what the person wants,

(22:19):
what they're trying to do in the scene, and why
they're trying to accomplish that goal, and so the questions
are always what do you want? What what's in your
way of getting what you want? And what what's at
stake if you don't get it. The same thing is
true when you're writing. You have to ask the same
questions and you know and if at the end of
the scene the actors in either closer or farther from
their goal the character, I should say, then you know

(22:41):
then why you have the scene? What's the point anywhere? Right?
If it's not moving, if you're not fighting for stuff.
So I guess the simple answer that question is you
have to come together and both understand the truth of it.
And when you do, if in fact, I'll say this,
when it has been hard and your misaligning, you don't
quite understand each other. When you do come together and
have that when you figure it out, usually there's an

(23:04):
aha moment that you both are like, oh right, that's
usually it's a gift that you had that conflict, that
you won't understand each other because it's not it becomes
this opportunity to figure out it usually leads to to
a greater harvest and perhaps more trust. Yeah, yeah, I
mean that's the same with any relationship. If you can
trust that your argument is is gonna be Yeah, is

(23:26):
going to be fruitful because it's going to force you
to have a better movie. Yeah. And April on your
end is an actor. What is uh? What is the
And I know it's specific to each person, but what
is the wrong way to handle you as a director?
What are the what are the wrong moves? The dance

(23:47):
doesn't make? Yeah, dance does? Um. I think we've had
we had a very good relationship. Actually, um so the
wrong move. I just came off a very emotional shoot
where I was playing, um, a bipolar character, and and

(24:07):
I'd say that as far as going back to that
jumping in and out of it, Like how somebody says
action really affect me. If if I'm gonna do if
I'm about to do a really like tender like depressed
or a crying scene or something, somebody goes like, somebody's
like action, Like, I will have to take a moment

(24:34):
and I've had before somebody do that to me and
then me be like, Okay, I'm not going to start
until I clear that from my head because you need
a few seconds, you know, I mean, really, at the
end of the day, when you're experienced with this, it's
really only a few seconds. But then sometimes when you
wait a few seconds, okay, whenever you're ready, like just okay,
now I need a few more seconds, so just um,

(24:55):
I'd say, just that space of like at most thirty
seconds before and after a really emotional scene and being yeah,
but not like space all the time, just just that
like right before and after certain emotional scenes, and just
having the right inner like saying action with the right energy.

(25:18):
I think it's really oddly important. And as an actor,
I know that if I get the wrong energy, I'm
going to take a moment make sure that I'm not
going to waste everybody's time by doing a bad take,
and get into the right energy first. But um, but
certainly that has that has thrown me. But generally I'm
kind of like, however, you can say it to me,

(25:40):
I'd rather I'd rather have somebody. I know a lot
of actors are like very against line readings, but it's like,
I'm almost rather a line reading than you not communicate
to me what is in your head. If you don't
have the words to do that, to tell me in
a way that makes sense, give me the line reading,
and then it might take me a couple of extra

(26:02):
seconds of processing to put it in my actor terms
so that I can enact it truthfully, um, instead of
just mimicking. But um, but I know that that's a
that's a lot of people's pet peeve, a lot of
actor's pet peeve, and its yeah, I've always tried really
hard to um uh And and I should replay repay

(26:23):
the compliment because she's a badass. Like when you hire
an actress like April, it's great because you get past
all of all of the worry and all of the
you can pretty quickly get to process which is which
is what? Uh? And you can roll the you can
you can roll the camera before you call action and
you you don't have to cut, you know. And it's
not it's it's just very fluid because you're you bring

(26:46):
so much to the table and you have so much
going on, your energy so full that all you want
to do is just fucking roll the camera, right. Um,
So paying the compliment back, it's been just honor to
work with you on this thing. You know of that,
but um, but yeah, I've had experiences with actors where
it's you know, it's delightful and you're in the process

(27:08):
and you get to work and you're like the process
of shooting is also the process of discovery and working
and you're harvesting these shots and you're not gonna use
all of them, but you're gonna, you know, you're gonna
find through the process of of of the takes that
you're using, You're gonna find what it is that you're doing. Um.
But it's rare that you have an actor that like April,
that can that can arrive and be present and do

(27:30):
the work and be there and be ready, you know,
and show up and not being their trailer or something,
you know what I mean. Yeah, I think people that
have never been on film sets and stuff like that, um,
maybe have a hard time understanding just how important set
culture is and just setting the tone for everyone on
that set. Every crew member, like a a bad apple

(27:54):
can spoil it, you know, a a dickhead boom operator
can ruin a job. Everyone has to really be what
we there there are well, now there's there's there's crew
members that I have there. There are certain people that
I have worked with before that I won't work with again.
And when their name comes up, I'm like, even though
they're quite good at what they do. I'm like, I

(28:16):
don't want that energy. I need. I needed my set
to be cool. Yes, you know, I have to say,
I feel like like slash job I did. It was
really interesting because there was a really beautiful evolution because
I was working with a crew that hadn't worked with
actors before, and so it went from these some of
these like you know, simple things where it was like

(28:39):
I would like to be there for for a blocking rehearsal,
you know, um to write to them really understanding and
and really like embracing it. And so I've had a
lot of experiences where maybe things, you know, there were
challenges here and there. And I think in any set,
on any set, at times, they're going to be times

(29:02):
when it gets tense or when they're racing against the
sun going down, you know, against the clock, and everybody's like,
you know, wanting you to go really fast, and then
you're like, okay, but that's not the space I'm supposed
to be in to make the scene right. And and
I think it's important for actors, any actors, to know
that that's what that's part of what you're there to do,

(29:23):
is to hold the space yeah, because for a director
as well, I mean you're you're you know how it goes.
You're often in the midst of chaos, but you can't
you can't be in the midst of chaos. And obviously
the very scenes supposed to be yeah, like very few
times that would probably help the scene out, but most
times you have to protect your actors, uh and your

(29:46):
culture and you as an actor, you got to just
stay locked in. I guess can I can I ask
a question, um, like, you've worked with some like a
list actor like top notch a list actors, and you've
worked with everybody on the spectrum of like professional to
know to people that are just nubs or whatever, like,
is there any are there? Is there any like the

(30:09):
Is there any thing you can say about having worked
with some of these bigger name actors And I know
you've worked with Tom Cruise and I know you've worked
with these but is there anything about that experience that
differs like that that you were able to talk away
and go, oh, that's why those guys are there? Or
is there any is there any special snakbusters like yeah,
I mean I think it's a well, I think at

(30:29):
some of those bigger name actors, you know, like you know,
Kevin I had a lot of scenes with Kevin Klein
and whatnot. That's great. Um is he awesome? He's amazing,
amazing human being. Everyone needed to hear that. UM No,
truly wonderful anyway. Yeah, but like seeing Seeing, Like especially

(30:51):
it was this movie Last Vegas I was on. There
was like five Oscar winners, and so I really in
this particular circumstance, I felt like I really got to observe,
observe how they work. And you know, some of them,
Kevin Kline talked to everybody, but some of them, you know,
we're just very much more reserved and you know, stayed
on their phone or pretended to be on their phone

(31:12):
just to stay in their space. UM. And and I
realized it was a very different relationship that they had
with a director. While a lot of up and coming
actors just want to get it right and want to please. UM,
with bigger name actors and especially like um watching Tom
Cruise work and whatnot, it's it's much more of a collaboration.

(31:34):
It's much more of them being like I'm going to
do and they're and they're bold, they try things, you know,
do things and then it's like the director going, what
do you think about trying this? It's much more of
like a back and forth and and like a playtime
than did I get that right? You know? And I
think that that's a big takeaway, is it? Like and

(31:58):
one thing I got from observing these very experienced actors
is it if you really if you really need something.
It's important not to be like a diva or anything
like that, but if there's something that's going to make
your performance better and it's not that hard to fix,
just ask for it. Yeah, you have to advocate for yourself. Yeah,

(32:19):
you know. UM, so that in certain circumstances it's like, hey,
can can we try this? Um? And you don't want
to do it all the time, but you know, in
in certain circumstances, the whole goal is it's a collaboration.
We all want the final product to be as good
as possible. And bringing ideas to the table. As an actor,
I think is very important to to being you know,

(32:43):
a step up from just you know, a day player. Yeah.
I think the most Um, when I used to work
on film Cruise, the best experiences I ever had just
as an observer, which you get to do a lot
of as a p A and as an art department obviously,
which is kind of one of the coolest parts is
you can kind of just be invisible and watch is
actors who were just very aware of what's going on.

(33:10):
The biggest problems I saw was when an actor was
either either had their head up their own ask so
much because you could just tell that's how they were
as a person, or maybe it was just so absorbed
in what the in the role that it was counterproductive
to the what people were trying to get accomplished. And
I think that's what you're talking about. Like, if you

(33:30):
have the time and you know that, you can advocate
for yourself a little bit, but I'm sure you're also
at times like you know, I know that it's go time,
and I've got to do my job and really move
this thing along as well exactly exactly. It's it's so important,
and I think it's I look at it like switches
in my head right, Like, um, I try to pay

(33:52):
a lot of attention to what the crew is doing.
I try to listen in between takes so that I
don't need so you don't have to explain to me
something that I could have already overheard. I never have
to hear it. I end up doing a lot of
I guess like, um, you know, just dropping yeah, But
it's like I hear them going, okay, we're you know,

(34:13):
we're putting on a changing lens, like we're putting it
on a two. And I know, I know, I learned
those so I know even if they're far away, that
it's probably still a close up. And then and then
it's probably a shallow depth of field, meaning you can't
move very much right And to try to be aware
of those things so that then you don't do a
take where you think it's wide because the camera's far

(34:33):
away and you blow it and then somebody has to
tell you. And I always have this desire to protect.
Like I said, I feel like the actor is the key.
Like if there's no truth happening with the actors in
the scene, then I don't care how beautiful it's lit.
I don't care what how crazy gorgeous your lens is.
It's that castivating thing. If it's not real, what's happening

(34:54):
then at the end of the day. So I'm always
trying to protect. I'm always feeling like the crew because
they're farting and eating doughnuts and jokes, and it's like
I'm always trying to get everybody just to just just
give them some space and be respectful. You know. Um,
I don't know. Yeah, That's why I say it's like switches,
because you can't you can't get too much into what's

(35:18):
worrying the crew. It's like I just kind of now
listen for sort of key things like, um, you know,
like if they're working out something, or I hear somebody say, oh,
you know she like, oh, somebody fixed her makeup or whatever,
then I turn and look for the makeup person, or
the makeup person comes over, I makes turned towards the

(35:40):
light so that they can see. Like you sound like
a drone to work with. Those little things make a
lot of difference. I think. Usually the usually any kind
of whether it's an actor being a diva, or whether
it's a director screaming, or whether it's the a d
usually those things some of them are just ingraining their
personalities and they think that's how they do their job
or whatever. But just like in the rest of life,

(36:00):
the assholes tend to be the ones who are just
insecure and if you can figure out what's making them
insecure you yeah, beautiful. It's true. They well, they tend
to just be you know, the guys who are screaming
and assholes tend to be scared of something. There's something
that they're compensating for it, you know. Yeah, we can

(36:21):
talk about that too. Well. I worked on some TV
commercials with Michael Bay, So I've seen the worst of
the worst behaviors on set, and it's top down, you know,
he's that, he is a certain way, and that was
the most aggressive, uh toxically male set that I've ever
been on in my life, right down to the crew members. Uh.

(36:45):
And it's not like he goes and looks to hire
those people. That just it's like an infection. You know,
it's terrible. You got some stories. I feel energy is
attracts your energy, Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I feel
like the director very much sets the tone. And I've
been on sets that are wonderful and been on sets
that are horrible at all different levels of of budget,

(37:10):
you know, And so I don't think, yeah, it's not
necessarily just money. Yeah, I don't think it's just money.
I think it's just because you know, I've been on
some big budget sets, so we're just a dream like whoa,
it can be like this amazing, you know, um for
Clinicewood sets are He's legendary for just not allowing chaos

(37:34):
or a loud voices and worked with people that worked
on jobs with him and he just sets a very familial, calm,
very calm atmosphere. I've heard that, Yeah, you can't have it,
and he's Clinicswood. You know, often you can dictate that. So,
I mean there's times that I won't call cut. I'll
just say, okay, reset go again, camera back to one,

(37:55):
everybody back, we're gonna go. We're gonna go again. I'll
throw a quick I'll direct in between, mean while we're
resetting the camera or whatever. But I won't call cut
because people start working. They'll start working with the lights again,
and I'm like, all right, we knew this was a
scene where the actor is going to be emotional or
in it in some way. Right, they're they're they're doing something.
And when I call cut, I had had a scene

(38:17):
about a It was back in October. I was shooting
a thing and it was it was for a TV
thing and it was um, the actresses had to come
in and find there there was an aunt who had
to find her niece had been murdered in a in
an apartment and she had to like break apart when
she saw that. And so I had a great actress
and she did the thing. And then I made the

(38:39):
mistake of calling cut, and everybody starts working and she's
sitting there like still good enough actress that she's able
to like you know, she's she's cool with cut or
whatever I was, and I was like, no, just keep
keep rolling, man, like we don't like that she's in it.
Film it. I don't care if that edge light isn't
perfect it, I just you know what I mean, that's

(38:59):
that kind thing. That's the only time you'll hear me
screaming when I'm at when you get I become it.
I become a dick if if they are if they
can't understand it, like don't the light the light should
have been set all right for that. We knew this
was an emotional scene. We should be rolling. It's like,
you know, you might as well be a wildlife videographer

(39:20):
that right, right, Yeah, you gotta capture the thing. I've
definitely been, I've definitely had been just like crying like
on the floor before and then being like, Okay, we're
gonna go, and I'm like, okay, great, and then it's
like and then like ten minutes later and like, so
are we gonna go or can I like you know,
change my right for sure? Yeah, well we need to

(39:54):
move on. I got a I got a heart out
at twenty minutes, so let's get into the dark guy. Okay, um.
This is an independent film that you by Hooker Crook
filmed over the course of how long? Uh it was
about three years? Okay, Um, it was from the time
we started writing to the time to now has been
five years. I mean, talk about those challenges as an

(40:17):
actor and as a director, everything from continuity too, as
an actor being able because boy, I mean you you
go to some places in this movie that I can't imagine.
Is it's easy to just call up on every other
weekend or however it worked out in some cases. Yeah,
we didn't really film it like every other week weekend.

(40:38):
We we filmed it in chunks, okay, So each emotional chunk,
each continuity chunk was in one go Okay, that makes sense.
Made it easier in that in that way, and then
of course there were some pickups here and there, but yeah,
we shot basically four blocks each and then after that
there was about three or four pickup weekends where we

(40:59):
would get together either for a day or a day
and a half and do anything we missed. The strategy
was because we had zero literally we had no money.
Our budget was well blow a hundred thousand dollars for
this entire thing. Too too bad. Sorry, that's what it is.
But uh but it feels, you know, it feels like
a bigger movie because we had certain strategies in place.
One was to break up the shoot so that we could, um,

(41:21):
we could make use of changing scenery and changing seasons
to add production value. Also, at one point, our character
Sybil goes through a body transformation, so we took off
about six months so that April could actually become a badass,
become a become a badass and from sort of a meek, internal,
sort of beaten character to this Sarah Connor to Sarah Connor.

(41:42):
So so we we we strategized that. Another another thing, too,
is because we didn't have much money, and I knew
that certain scenes that I had visualized and that we
wanted to do might may or may not come off,
or we may not be able to pull them off.
I planned the therapy sessions, which everything, like half the
movie is a flashback and sort of story told. So
I knew that, and you're, you know, supposed to show

(42:05):
and not tell. But I knew that if we couldn't
get the thing that we wanted to show, they could
talk about therapy. We planned to shoot that later in
the movie or later in our process, right, so that
if anything we missed, they could cover it. The actors
were good enough to to tell you a story dinner
with Andre. Yeah, you know. Yeah, well you have to,

(42:28):
you know, when when the money is not available, you
have to be really really smart and have a good strategy. Um,
you've done this before a few times, so imagine Dark Red. Um.
I'm not easy. Obviously, it's never easy. But it sounds
like you had a really good plan in place, probably
because of the past experience. Yeah. Yeah. And in fact,

(42:48):
at one point we had most of the movie in
the can. We had a shot and then another movie
came along that, Um, I need that had to happen quickly,
so I had to like put it to bed or
just shelved it and then go to this other movie
and then come back to it. And that process was
pretty crazy for me in my life because right about
that's right about when I was having my first child,

(43:10):
and so I was doing you know, in the past
three years, I say, I made two kids and two
feature films, you know, but all this was going on.
But like the the experience of doing the one, which
had a lot of you know, bad producing efforts and
sort of uptight, weird insecure people and bad energy set
and and but it had you know, an A list

(43:32):
actor and it had you know, and in the end
it all came together in a weird way. But this
movie in the meantime, which I was making with my
family and my friends here in Atlanta, was so much
more rewarding and so much more enriching, and so much
more like the way that you want to move it
to go. And it's just it's it's a better movie.
And it's just amazing how the one costs so much
money and it didn't have to and then this one

(43:55):
costs no money, and it's just it's just so it
was that was the lesson for me. I walked away
going k, So, you know, do I want to make
a huge budget movie, if there's if there's if it's
if it's if the end result is sort of meaningless
because you get your your legs hacked out from under
you as a director. Or would I'd rather go make
a movie and you know, very little budget and and

(44:16):
deal with that and work in real circumstances with real actors.
Not that the other actors were bad or anything, they
were great, but just the circumstances you provided for a
much more you know, real and riching and you know,
the reason we're doing this kind of thing like this
is why are we why are we even doing? Yeah?
And it was just such a night day experience that

(44:37):
that that, and that has informed me going forward in
terms of like what kind of projects I'm willing to do.
And I've turned down a bunch since then, just because
I'm like, yeah, you guys, you're trying to do that thing.
I'm not doing that thing again. You just tell you
get a sixth sense about it? Yeah, April, what about
the physicality of this role? Um, Like he said, there's

(44:59):
a certain and we don't want to give away too much,
but there's a certain point in the movie where there's
a bit of a transformation and uh, there's a lot
more physicality and um just straight up you know, working
with a stunt coordinator and fight scenes and stuff like that.
What was that like for you? Did you have a
lot of experience there? Um, I've always I've always moved

(45:21):
well if that makes sense, So I and and always enjoyed,
you know, working out and things like that. So that
was in terms of my experience, it's you know, everything
that you do in acting is always a new experience.
But our stunt coordinator, Elizabeth d a bit of a
very good friend of mine and just an incredible human

(45:42):
and and so patient and so wonderful and teaching me
and you know, helping give me plans that I, you know,
could follow to get to where I needed to be
and just um, that was actually it was actually really fun. Yeah,
not fine, bet, Yeah, and learning that whatnot? That's cool.
And you and I've talked previously about choreography of stuff

(46:03):
like that. Um, this all seemed pretty seamless, Like what
what what were some of the Was there ever a
point where you were one or both of you are
sort of like it's dark and are we even going
to finish this thing? Or was it always like no,
We're on the right track. We've got the right people

(46:24):
in place, so it's gonna happen. If it takes three years.
It takes three Uh. I had a weird, um irresponsible
confidence in our ability to pull this off. I might
have to have that. I was afraid that April might
move away or have you know, I mean anything can
have a project or get your hair cut. I mean
a lot, a lot of was me just having faith

(46:46):
and hope that that she would stay with us the
whole time. And the more we got into it, I
think the more you became an owner of the movie,
and really it's basically a co producer, and I mean really,
you know, I feel like it's a star of a movie.
Though you should take some ownership of try and like.
But I guess the point when when you're you're you're

(47:08):
spending your own time and your own money on a movie.
You're not just getting paid to show up and then
leave like you're you had to invest in your your life,
had to invest and you had to make room for
this movie for years because life happens, Like anything could
have happened in that three years that would could have
stopped you from shooting this movie. I don't think we
ever went out. I wouldn't have. I don't think we Well,

(47:33):
sometimes you don't have a choice, you know. Sometimes life
throws things that you did. You got it for Dan
as well. But yeah, I mean I think even if
I had booked something huge or whatnot that um, I
would have been like, we're figuring this out. Yeah, I don't.
I don't think there was ever a darkness where I
was like, Okay, it's not gonna come together. It was
always this was always the love. This was always like,
oh well, let's go back and keep working on the

(47:54):
dark Red because that's cool. That's fun, right, So we
kept going back. I mean, in fact, there's times when
I'm I wish we had some shoots left to do.
Sometimes I'm like, I wish we could go to a
dark Red shoot right now, because that's right, that's always cool.
It was always hard as hell, but it was good heart.
And I think I think that that that comes across
in the movie, that it's very enjoyable experience and and right,

(48:17):
and that the audience can enjoy our passion that we
put into it. And I was thinking about you, like
you really like this. This is a cool character. I mean,
I I like the character because I wrote it, but
like I wonder about what I mean, you had. There's
such a range with this character from all these different

(48:37):
things that you had to experience in portray you know,
UM on so many levels emotionally. I mean, yeah, there's
there's tons of passion, there's tons of grief, there's tons
of their sexuality, there's you know, there's revenge. There's so
much stuff that you had to go through to Was
it hard to keep coming back to these things? I mean,

(49:00):
I know we shot different emotional blocks, Like the revenge
block is different from like the Yeah, I think certain
sections of it were definitely, Uh, can always affect you
more than others. It's kind of when we were walking
and I was talking about this project I just did,
and how it's like, you know, you can't you do
teach yourself as an actor to jump in and out,
but also some stuff kind of lingers with you, you know,

(49:22):
and it takes a minute to process and for you
to go, well, why am I sad right now? I
don't think I should be. Oh. I think it's because this,
you know, this piece of this movie is still in me,
this piece of this character and in you know, any
character you play, I think stays with you in a way,
and do you miss them? Yes and and no, because

(49:45):
I played a lot of tortured characters. So yeah, yeah,
that's I just saw a thing with Melissa McCarthy where
I think they were asking about her favorite characters, and
she really Uh it was a very personal thing you
could tell where she was like, I just I really
kind of loved them all and she and I imagine

(50:07):
a lot of actors think of them very much as real,
distinct people. That that exists in a world. You know,
that's pretty cool. I love it. Um, let's talk about
independent film and just the once your movie is over,
what the real challenge starts. In a way, Uh, it's

(50:28):
hard enough to get the thing in the can, but
then you want people to see it and talk about
distribution on this level and and the challenges and the process. Um,
the classic way is to just start putting. Just just
begin submitting to festivals and you go into the festival circuit.
There are some rules around that. We we made a
weird Um. We took a big risk, I should say,

(50:50):
when we submitted to the UM the Austin Film Festival,
which is a writer's based film festival. Um, but it's
a very prestigious film festival, even though it's a small
reagion festival. And they reached out to me and they've
seen the movie and they were just like, we would
love to premiere this and and so for that to
be our world premiere meant that we were not going
to be accepted like that that would borrow us from Sundance. Um,

(51:15):
but I wanted. My whole thing with this movie was like,
let's instead of like hanging on to hope or burden
the hand type of thing, I was just like, let's
go where the love is. Let's just let's just continue
to follow the path of like if people like this movie,
let's go towards that, as opposed to like struggling to
try to get people to like the movie and Sundance.
You know, it's it's just impossible to get into Sundance.

(51:36):
I mean, it's just there's so much there's so much
many politics and everything with that. And God might bless
my friends who are still having a good job of
you know, doing a good job of getting into Sundance.
But it's it's it's impossible. And um, so we went
with we went with Austin and then we got our
first reviews back. We're really positive and really strong, and

(51:56):
so that that helps. And if your reviews are positive,
then that it's just sort of like the energy starts
to spread. Um. The biggest thing after that was we
submitted to fright Fest, and fright Fest is one of
the top four genre festivals. Our movie is horror, but
it's in London. Yeah, And our movie is horror, but

(52:17):
it's it's really more thriller. I mean it's it's it's
a bender like thriller mystery. Yeah, and it's got horror elements,
but it's not a horror movie. Um. But so fright Fest,
Like I submitted it and literally that day after I
had submitted it to fright Fest, I got a call
from Paul at fright Fest and he was like, yeah,
so you're in. We love this movie. And I'm like, okay,

(52:40):
these guys get it, they love it. Um. And I
was like, but it's I was so scared because it's
not really a horror movie. How are your fans and
love like the the big broad strokes horror going to
respond to such a subtle movie. But He's like, who cares,
let's let's bring your movie here to London. We'll have
a UK premier and we'll do it. And that was
a lot of fun. So that was our our end.
We were they we got an offer. They do UH

(53:03):
Fast Presents with Signature Entertainment as Signatures uh International Sales
and Distribution UM. And they reached out to us and
we cut a deal with them, UM. And it was
you know, it's really simple deal. I was like, okay, well,
you know, the mechanics of it were simple, and they
had a good track record. And then they had a

(53:25):
relationship with dark Sky and dark Sky here I believe
dark Sky has done everything from like VHS too, so
dark Sky like the movie as well, and they took
it on. So that's why. And they've they've been great
about marketing and we got more pretty awesome reviews from
reviews have been significantly good. Yeah, yeah, so we're got

(53:47):
to feel great. Well, it helps, Yeah, it feels good.
It's like, you know, it's a hug for a filmmaker
who's been through a war. But but it's also, um,
it also means a lot in terms of I think
just the zeitgeist of the industry of your film. But
it needs a lot in terms of they can literally
take quotes from those good reviews and use that to

(54:08):
put on the cover of the red box and sell
the movie. So that's awesome. Uh, well, you guys, I
wish we had more time. I have an eye appointment
to have that is the truth of the matter. But
Dark Red as of real time and podcast time. I mean,
it is out today March six in Atlanta, Brooklyn, Columbus.

(54:28):
Where else Chicago, Chicago and out anywhere you can find
it online. It's your best movie yet. And thanks April,
you're very very big part of that. Obviously, you were
fantastic and I can't wait to see what's next. Always
Dark Red Part two. Thanks for having us man, Yeah,
of course, thank you so much. Check out Dark Red

(54:49):
all right, thanks you guys. All right. Bloomy Crush has produced, edited,
and engineered by Ramsay Hunt here in our home studio
at Pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio.

(55:09):
For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I
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