Film Series: Matt Frederick on The Fisher King

Everyone's favorite, Matty Frederick is back to chat The Fisher King.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.

(00:28):
Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush. We got Maddie
back in the house in the world, not in my house.
Here in the house, we're being safe. I like it
that room, man, it's very warm. It looks like super cozy.
Oh it is pretty great. It's got all of my
dorky things going on back here, all my video games
and board games, music stuff. Oh yeah, and there's a

(00:52):
mind calendar back there too, which is just in case
you need one. Wait, I thought the world ended. Hold on,
wait a minute. I know we're still going somehow, but
it's so we're not far away. Well, welcome back to
the show. Brother. It's been a while. It's funny. When
we went into lockdown, I sort of got into a
rotation of people and then something was missing and it

(01:16):
was you stuff. I'm not sure what happened. It just
sort of fell off my radar. And then I was like,
wait a minute, Maddie, what happened? We were we were
on a roll there. It's all good man, you know,
we we really milked for all that it was worth.
Actually that's not true. There's so many other We'll go
back there, but yeah, we're we're definitely. I missed it

(01:37):
a lot, hanging out with you mostly, but also just
getting to talk about a movie like for a while.
I don't do that ever. Nobody talks with me about
movies and so for you, so thank you. Well you're
back in the rotation. So uh, we decided or you
decided to jump back to yea for a movie that

(01:58):
I loved and of called The Fisher King from director
Terry Gilliam. Um, he did not write this one, though.
I think this is the first movie that he did
not write that he directed. Right. Yeah, it was written
by Richard la Gravants. Gravents. I don't know how to
say it correctly. Um, an excellent writer, just prolific wrote Parisia,

(02:20):
tem The Horse Whisper, a bunch of other movies that
you know about. Yeah, he's It's funny. I looked him
up because I've never heard of him, and I was
trying to think of a way to describe his career
without sounding like an insult. But you know all those
movies over the years that are big movies that you know,
but are sort of just uh, they're kind of nondescript

(02:43):
in that there's not because he's directed some of these
two but nondescript, and that he's one of these directors
it seems like and writer that just sort of writes
movies and that it's not like this has a real
Richard uh like greben As feel to it. But they're
a just a lot of big movies in here, living
out loud, the ref unstrung heroes. He wrote Bridges of

(03:06):
Madison County, The Mirror has two faces, beloved freedom writers.
I think, yeah, Water for Elephants. I mean, these are
all like big big He's had a huge career because
I was like when I first saw his name, I
was like that she he's one of these guys that
wrote one movie that he and and then went away.
But that is just not true at all. But the
fact that he wrote all those movies and then he

(03:29):
wrote this movie. I think about the difference between The
Fisher King and all those other movies that we mentioned. Yeah,
I mean there's there's a I think a romantic comedy
line that kind of goes through there, and and the
drama kind of mixing um. But overall of the the

(03:51):
whimsy that exists within this screenplay, I want to say
is brought heavily by Gilliam. Right, it feels that way
for sure, Um, because you know you do you I
hope everyone listening is familiar with Terry Gilliam. But the fuss,
the the imagination that exists within that man's head, um

(04:14):
is just glorious to behold on screen. And it's there's
no exception here with the Fisher King. Yeah. Absolutely. And
the other thing about the writer, um, he he strikes
me as someone and looking at his his list of
credits as a screenwriter who really just is so solid
with that Hollywood form, which is to say, act one,

(04:38):
Act two, Act three thirty minutes to get your plot
point ninety minutes or you know, depending on how long
your movie and get your second plot point. You've got
the characters overcoming adversity and gaining redemption and overcoming the obstacles.
I mean, it's in the best way. It is as
true to the Hollywood sort of trophies gript form that

(05:00):
that you can imagine. And and I've talked about it before,
but that's a a tried and true thing because almost
just because it is like people are conditioned to see
movies this way. And that's why when movies don't do it.
They're seen as sort of avant garde, are really sort
of artie. But this is right down the middle the
Fisher King. As far as just being a great story

(05:22):
of characters redemption love, it really hits all the notes, really,
really well. The hero's journey is strong with this one,
and it's in fact doubled like it is. And that
was one of the criticisms that Roger Ebert. He only
gave this two stars, and he was sort of like,
he just throws the kitchen sink in there. We have

(05:43):
two redemption stories into love stories. And I was like, yeah,
but it's it's great. Yeah. They mirror each other in
these beautiful ways. When you we're thinking about um, well,
let's just say Jack, I guess the main character, traditional
main character that exists within this story, Um played by
Jeff Bridges, and then Perry the I guess the the

(06:07):
secondary in in a way, but also the kind of
the most important character in a lot of ways. Robin Williams,
you know, uh, And just like the acting in this movie,
I think each of them was nominated for an Oscar
Mercedes Rule won the Oscar very deservedly. She's so good
in this dude. Mercedes. Yeah, and I I hate to

(06:33):
admit this, but it's not that I didn't remember her
in that role. It's just I think when I was
originally watching this role, I was so obsessed with Robin Williams,
and I was watching it for Robin Williams. Same here,
and um, I guess just with with a little bit
of time and age, you see all of these parts,
including Amy, Amanda Plumber, oh my god, as as a lady. Like,

(06:56):
all of them together as an ensemble knocked it out
of the park. Some of the scenes, some of the
scenes with with Mercedes and Jack or sorry Mercedes, Mercedes
and Jeff Bridges, Um, the two of them together just um,
there was just there, like sparks, There's there's such a
connection there, you know, it's real. Yeah, their relationship was

(07:20):
so upsetting at times, especially watching it as an older guy. Um,
because like you said, I think when I first saw
this movie, and I saw it quite a few times
back then I was in college, I think, like my
second yar in college and then watch it quite a
few times on video just because I loved it so much.
But us and it was all about Robin Williams and
of course I love Jeff Bridges, and I thought Mercedes Rule.

(07:43):
I was like, man, she's a hot older woman, you know,
and like I was Leopard hot pants and she's in
her forties and I was like twenty years old now
that I'm a little older. It's just their relationship was
so sad to me because although it works out in
a really sweet way, she was so willing to accept
so little from him as a partner and the only

(08:06):
way she could get him was as damaged goods. And uh,
and you see how cruelly he leaves her when he
starts to get his life back together. And man, that
stuff just hit me right in the gut this viewing. Yeah,
oh yeah. And and just the immediacy at which he
decided to leave her after things started on a slight

(08:26):
up tick for his life. He's out of there like
so quickly. But again, like, let's I don't want to
get too far a head shuck, because I just I guess,
let's establish that character of jack there's some interesting things
going on just in our lives reflected with with jack
Um not not saying that we are we have the

(08:49):
same qualities that he does, flaws that character has, but
we're not shocked shocks. No, we're not shocked shocks, but
we are broadcasters. And um, you know we just starting
out with Hit the Road Jack playing right. Um, that's
the way this movie begins. Hit the Road Jack. Uh,
don't you come back no more? Ray Charles and the

(09:12):
ray Lettes are are just rocking out, and it's him
in the studio as Jack Lucas this rock jock, and
he is. They just hit you with it immediately in
the beginning. It's such a great setup. Mm hmm. They
give you his character everything you need to know just
by showing him in his environment. Yeah, without showing his
face though, which I thought was kind of interesting. Oh,

(09:34):
it was really cool just and and it really mirrors
a big theme in this or at least for Jack personally,
the concept of the face that's always heard but never seen,
and how badly he wants this TV show so he
can be a face and a voice, which Harry Shear
later gets. Yeah, very cool little cameo exactly he wants

(09:59):
to be what was it called on the error? I
think is the fake? Very funny stuff. But yeah, the
way they set it up is so clean, and I
always talk about efficiency of set up in the In
the first like five minutes, you know exactly who this
guy is, and you get that great um movie tragedy

(10:22):
that happens where his life has turned upside down. And
then we later learned, you know, obviously many other people's
lives are turned upside down. Oh yeah, with that Mats shooting,
with which at the time was I remember seeing this
and it was just unfathomable that somebody would walk into
our restaurant and shoot people up. And it's so sad

(10:44):
now that that's you know, commonplace. Oh yeah, yeah, man, um,
you know, I was, I guess around eight when this
movie came out. I didn't see it for a long time.
Um gosh, it was. It was around the time I
was watching all these movies in high school, um, like

(11:07):
all the ones that we've been talking about on this
show prior to this. Uh, and I was just really
getting into movies. But I was always into Robin Williams.
I think it was a Laddin for me that got
me there, and my dad made me watch Good Morning
Vietnam early on good movie and then I just like
just stuck with everything. I watched anything and everything that

(11:27):
he was in. Yeah, people that Robin Williams haters. I
just I don't know, get away from me. Those exist. Yeah,
there's some Robin Williams haters that kind of thought he
overdid it and overacted, And I just I just thought
he was a treasurer and like, what a great great man.
My brother worked with him on just one day as

(11:48):
an a d on a job he was in and
he just had chatted him up for like two minutes
at the craft service tables, the only interaction you ever
had with him. And he was just the kindest, sweet, sweetest,
sweetheart of a guy. From what everyone said, I'm missing
so much. Yeah, yeah, me too. Do this sad? What happened? Oh,
there's so many things I wanna talk about. I feel

(12:09):
like they feel like it's a good transition. There's so
many other things to connect that maybe you don't know
about if you're listening to this, But I would just say,
if you haven't watched Fisher King and you are listening
to this, do yourself a favor. It's on Amazon Prime
right now. If you have Amazon Prime and you get Showtime,
you get a free trial and watch it right now.
Maybe on Hulu as well, but I watched it on

(12:31):
Amazon Prime. Yeah, just do it and then maybe come
back here. Um, just do it. They're just speaking about,
um memories of Robin Williams and some of the scenes
that he gives to us in this in this movie, Um,
I teared up so many times, and it was just

(12:53):
watching him and remembering that he's gone, but also watching
him on screen. I don't know if there was a
very emotional thing for me. There's the scene where, uh,
where the two couples Perry, Perry and Lydia, Jack and
Anne are at the Chinese restaurants. Such a great great
it's a great scene, just the whole I mean, this

(13:15):
whole scene is great. Um, I guess can we do
you mind if we just talked about the one really quickly,
no man helping over all this other stuff. We're gonna
jump all around. It's all good, Okay. So first of all,
all of a sudden, there are wipe wipe transitions, like
all all of a sudden in the movie, white transitions occurring. Yeah. Well,

(13:37):
it's like they just got coverage of that wide shot
at the table and they just wanted to show. It's
almost like that to me, like the the direction and
an editor they were just like, well, let's just like
cut around a little more and let's just stay here.
They may have had that that that location for like
two hours or something, you know exactly, but but they
they really pulled it off, just showing the the mirroring

(14:01):
that Perry's character is doing to Lydia whenever she's being
clumsy with the china and the glass and the dumplings
and everything, and he's just mirroring her as an attempt
to make her feel less uncomfortable. It's so goddamn sweet,
I know it really is. And they're showing you all

(14:21):
of this through this series of transitions and cuts there.
And then there's a moment I can't remember if Perry
begins singing first, or if we get this. I can't
remember if they if he sings first, or you get
this moment with Jack and and but there's a moment
where and is kind of just watching them interact and

(14:47):
is so amused by what they're doing. And she kind
of glances over at Jack and notices that her red
bra is slightly down on her arm, just slightly down
on her arm, and she, like you know, glances at
Jack and pulls it up. And then Jack kind of
just reaches over his finger and just pulls it back
to such a great little moment and just gives her

(15:09):
kiss on the arm and they just, I mean, the
the sweetness that existed there, that was so genuine, um,
maybe so happy, but it was also this tremendously like sensual,
like beautiful thing like that. That a moment that I
think I've experienced before in the almost very very similarly

(15:29):
um and maybe a lot of us have, where there's
just it's a hint of of sexuality expressed between them,
but it's mostly just this, um, it's it's expressing love
without saying I love you from Jack to Anne, which
he you know, doesn't say until the end. So it
was very meaningful, exactly. It's so meaningful. And at the

(15:51):
same time, while all that's happening, you've got Perry expressing
his just happiness to be around Lydia by singing that
song Lydia, Lydia the Tattooed Lady Okay, And it's and
it's kind of a raunchy song, but the way he's
singing it is so it's beautiful. And as the music

(16:13):
that score swells in to fill in the rest of
the song. While he's singing, and the cameras pulling back
and you see all of the employees there in the
Chinese restaurant. They're clearly they're after hours. Yeah, and that
beautiful like when you finally pull back, you like, it's
a beautiful shot anyway, but that the lighting and just

(16:34):
that that set in that frame is so gorgeous um
just so vibrant with colors, and there's so much great
color in this movie that that whole sequence is just
off the charts. That date from the beginning in the
apartment where they're trying to get Perry ready and it's
just like an animal at that table, like trying to
look down her dress and staying up on the table

(16:56):
like you're too good of a woman to go to waste,
all the way through a date itself, and how nervous
he is to uh, post date when Jack and Anne
are just riding high and it's so in love and
Perry and Lydia have that heartbreaking scene where she tells
him how bad it's going to go and he gets

(17:18):
that first kiss anyway, and then the PTSD meltdown immediate.
I mean that that's the sequence of the movie. I think,
you know, oh, it really is um and and it's
it's a big theme of the movie, achieving, finally achieving
what you think you want, what you think you need UM,

(17:41):
and then something coming through and telling you that you
can't have it or it's out, it's out of reach,
or that's not what you need UM, even though it
is true, it's what Perry it's it is what Perry needs,
a companionship, someone who will be who will function with him,

(18:01):
not for him or not someone that he's functioning for
UM in the same way that the relationship he had
with his wife, right um that we only get to
see a sliver of. We only get to see a
tiny sliver of Perry and his his wife. The brutal scene,
the flashback. Yeah, yeah, because he's not allowed to have

(18:22):
this stuff because of what he went through, his his PTSD,
like his legiti mental illness. And that comes out later
when about sort of not having permission to to feel
a certain way when he finally comes out of the
comment in the end in his catatonic state, and uh,
he asked, and god, that scene is so great, But

(18:45):
he asked Jack if he can miss her now? And
that's another thing, like giving himself permission to miss her.
It was just so powerful, so great down the quote
he said, he yeah, he his hands are clasped on

(19:09):
this trophy that he believes is the Holy Grail and
he's still comatose, and then his hands like slowly start
to move up and he physically realizes what it is
before he mentally does, and then he wakes up. Jack
is passed out, kind of laying across him a little
bit um, and he just sits up and he says,

(19:31):
I had this dream Jack, I was married. I was
married to this beautiful woman and you were there too.
I really miss her, Jack. Is that okay? Can I
miss her now? Jesus thank you? There he goes away
and You're just like, ah, don't you cry, Matt. I'm

(19:51):
not going to. I will not cry. Yeah. The way
they played that out that was so great. Like Jeff
Bridge is not acknowledging because he just lays motionless, but
his eyes are open, and that like single tier comes down. Uh.
Just such a heartwarming and tragic movie all at the
same time. So much. Well, a mirror is what they

(20:12):
provide to each other because there's there's the moment in
that same bed where like right before this before Jack
goes in gets the grail where yelling at him, Well, yeah,
he's yelling at him, but he's he is I think
more so pouring his heart out to him, saying like
especially what he where he comes to with it, like
if I if I do this, I'm not you know,

(20:36):
I'm not doing it because I feel guilty or responsible
in some way. If I do this, I'm doing it
because I want to do it for you. That's all
for you. Yeah, that's and that's the change that needs
to happen for him to be redeemed, because he runs
the gamut from ignoring this guy to realizing who he

(20:56):
is to trying to literally pay him off and buy
him out like that will work, and he's trying to
Like it takes him that that long in the movie
to realize that You've got to do the work, and
it's got to be for the right reasons. You can't
buy him off. You can't buy your way out of this.
You can't uh, you can't absolve your guilt. It has

(21:18):
to be a selfless act. And that selfless act is
breaking into the Carmichael's Park Avenue Armory, which somehow I've
never gone to that building in New York, and next
time I go to New York, I'm going there immediately
and like taking pictures of me in front of it.
Do you think we'll ever go to New York again? Yeah?
I hope so we will. Matt Okay. Uh. It was

(21:42):
cracking up the whole time you're talking because of just
the concept of Jack trying to buy out Perry's um,
the guilt that he feels towards Perry, the moment when
he gives Perry fifty bucks and then a twenty on
top of it. Yeah, and then Perry immediately turns around
and there's a guy with a shopping cart and he's

(22:05):
got a phone, and Perry comes up, hands in the
money and he goes bye bye. Yeah. That moment is
great because you know, Jack sees it and I was
giving you the money. I was giving you the money,
and it's it's a lesson that he doesn't even pick
up on, but Perry's giving him a lesson right there.
And then he gives so many lessons through the movie,

(22:27):
um of And I think that's what I love about
this character and made me miss Robin Williams even more,
is that there was something very Robin Williams about it,
especially once you know that he suffered through Louis body
dementia and depression and took his own life like Perry
is a is a is a wreck of a human.

(22:49):
But he's still trying to like put goodness into the world. Yeah,
he emanates or he emits yes, and he does it
without maybe even intentionally doing it. It feels that way.
He's just the way he reacts to things, the thoughts
that he has about any situation that he finds himself in.

(23:10):
He just appears to be doing the right thing and
in a weird way, perhaps the way we imagine a
night would you know, Like really he's the chivalrous human
that is there to protect, to help, to you know,
save people. Um, he really does act that way. Yeah.

(23:31):
And and the way he loves Lydia without even knowing
her is the way that Jack should love Anne. Like again,
he's like this lesson right in front of Jack's face
that he he know. He follows Lydia around and and
just rebels in every small little thing she does, from
eating the dumplings wrong to buying the trashy romance novel

(23:51):
and getting swept up in the revolving door, and it's
like right there in front of Jack's face the whole time. Yeah,
it really is. But Chuck, we have to talk about this.
Isn't it a little creepy by the way Perry's character

(24:15):
goes after Lydia. I mean, my note here says, you know,
he's basically stalking her, but uh, you know you can't
look at it through that lens. It's it's a sweet
romantic gesture. Uh. But I wrote a note of that
when when they're having this tender moment after the date,
when they're there at the stoop, it's like I've been

(24:36):
following you. He's he describes her entire life and routine,
everything about her, and she's looking at him and you
can see in her eyes like, what really, you're watching
me do all of that, and it is creepy. For
a moment you feel that it's creeping, you realize it's creepy.
But for me, again, I think it's the performances as

(24:57):
well here where you can see that what it really
means is that he knows her better than anyone on
this on this planet, even better than herself perhaps, and
like you said, he adores every little part of it. Somehow,
for some reason, he adores all of these little eccentricities

(25:19):
that she has. And and I really do think in
some philosophical level that is where we're in true love
lies like the acceptance of flaws, the almost, the almost
the it's more than appreciation of them. It's a fascination
with flaws or something like that. I don't know. I

(25:39):
can't haven't put my finger on this whole love thing, guys,
but uh, there's something to it that that exists right there. Well,
and even you know, these are superficial little flaws, like
real human flaws. That's why people couple up, you know,
because going through life is very hard alone, and two

(26:00):
people that are messed up in their own unique ways
can come together and and ideally lift each other up
and help each other out. Well, that's why Jack and
is so important. So that's why, you know, I'd love
to talk to Roger Ebert about that. Like, that's why
these two storylines are so important. It's showing you total
kinds of love and affection and problems within relationships and

(26:23):
how those are navigated incorrectly most of the time. But
then you know, with with time and communication, you can
fix a lot of that almost all of that. Yeah,
I mean they're saving each other throughout the whole movie.
They're alternating sort of saving each other. Jeff Bridges is
trying to say Perry, uh, because he's trying to save himself.

(26:44):
But Perry this whole time is just sending up just
like big, Hey, this is how you should be. He's
got this great woman. You can't buy your way out,
And Jeff Bridges even says Jack says, at one point,
I just wish there was some way I could pay
the fine and go home. Yeah, And that's that's that
character in a nutshell. He wants the easy way out

(27:06):
and he can't. Life doesn't work that way. Yeah, it's true.
But you know I can also I can also very
much identify with that feeling of just wishing there was
some there was something I could do, or a series
of things I could do to make myself not feel
so bad about something. I definitely identify with that. But

(27:28):
but you know it's okay, man, this is the philosophy
of this movie and the symbols it uses to tell
to get us to some of these answers. I guess
it is so beautiful. Um, I kind of want to, oh, man,
I wanted to jump to another scene here, you would
if you'd allow. Um. The just when we're talking about

(27:51):
the philosophy everything we're talking about the title of the movie,
the Fisher King, the actual story of the Fisher King, UM,
and the way that Perry tells it because he's a
history professor. He knows all of this stuff. He has
a history professor, right. I think he might have been English,
but one of the two. He's Yeah, he's a professor

(28:14):
in a college there. And when they're sitting in Central
Park there, this is the first time they find them
well is it the first time. It's the time they
find themselves in Central Park at night for the first time.
Perry is naked. I think Perry is naked, but Jack
is not. And Jack just refuses and he's about to leave,

(28:35):
but he ends up coming back and just laying there
to cloud bust very great, which is a real thing
and was really weird and hilarious and ragon energy and
check out stuff they don't want you to know if
you want to learn about orgon energy and cloud busting. UM.
But Perry tells tells Jack the entire story of the
Fisher King, and it really is exactly the movie just

(29:00):
in it's the the whole movie is right here in
the Fisher King that exists within the middle of the movie. Yeah,
it's fascinating. Yeah, it's really beautiful. Um. And I think
that's even the name of his manuscript that Jack digs
out right in his basement, um sort of boiler room apartment.
What's his name, Henry more right? No, like his real name? Yeah,

(29:23):
I can't remember. Oh, man, I thought it was Henry
Merriam or wrong. That whole sequence is Henry. Yeah, Henry
sane when he when he first discovers uh. And again
it's right, just like clockwork, at that thirty minute point
in the movie when he discovers that Perry was was
in that restaurant that night that it was shot up

(29:44):
and he lost his wife, and you know, that's where
the hero's journey begins. That's where he knows where his
night's quest shall lie, even though he doesn't choose to
accept it immediately. Like that's the big sort of thread
of this movie is Perry is he is the night
that is a accepting any quest, and Jack is the
night that refuses to accept the request. That's so obvious

(30:06):
right in front of his face, but he does begrudgingly
because he thinks again that is where his salvation will lie.
Uh and in fact it does, but he has to
come by it honestly. Yeah, you're right, man. I thought
one of the most fun parts of this whole movie
too was how Jack is thrust into this world of uh,

(30:27):
these mentally ill people, homeless people, mentally ill people, whether
it's in the hospital or like out on the streets,
uh in like New York's version of skid Row, and
how he he clearly fits in better there. That's where
he's most like, sort of happiest almost even though like
in his mind and you know that these would be

(30:48):
his words. He's just like among a bunch of loony's.
But uh, he he ends up when he you know,
when he gets his career back and he's a rich
guy again. Uh Um, he's not happy and he even
says like, I keep why is it that everything I have?
And I still feel like I'm missing something. And then
when he's most at home again and happiest at the

(31:12):
end of the movie, when he's when he's leading the
chorus in the in the institution and all these men singing,
it's like it's such a great moment. And you know,
for better for worse. It's a very dressed up Hollywood
version of mental illness. Uh that is sort of light
and fluffy, so we don't want to ignore that. But
it's a fairy tale. It's what this movie is. Yeah,

(31:34):
oh yeah, for sure. I mean they're there. There are
a lot of problematic things with it, but at the
heart of it, I mean I think, and you know,
if you're listening, correct me if I'm wrong, But at
the heart of this movie, it feels like there's a
a true appreciation for the situations that many, many people

(31:55):
that is depicting find themselves in. Yeah, I think he's
saying they have value. Yeah, absolutely, and the hardships, you know,
being being kicked out of a facility because there's no money,
because like someone who cannot get help simply because the
the instant the institutions of the state or local level

(32:17):
or the federal level aren't providing things for someone who's
unable to you know, provide for themselves. Um. And again
it just kind of ripples through all of this, all
of this movie from the punks that show up at
the very beginning. You yeah, then they call him. I

(32:38):
think they called him punks in the screenplay, but the
evil son's abit shous uh and then too to the
fleshed out characters that are very much, you know, tertiary
characters that exist within this world, but they're so amazing.
Can we just for a second talk about I think

(33:02):
I think he's I think he's labeled as the cabaret
singer Michael Jeter. Oh my god, man, Oh my god.
A revelation this man, perhaps, And Michael Jeter is a
great actor. He was a very special guy. He was.
He was one of the few, um openly gay actors
in Hollywood. Um and at a time where you didn't

(33:24):
kind of do that stuff. He was. He's most well known,
I think for many years on the Evening Shade TV
show with Burt Reynolds, which I never really watched that much,
but I know Michael Jeter as as this guy. And yes,
in the scene, I mean all he steals every scene
he's in, but the scene where he goes and sts
to Lydia in the office is one of my favorite

(33:46):
scenes in any movie ever. Well, even the way he
when he's going in in the high heels and he's
just sort of running through the office and he hangs
his coat on the one guy and he goes Lydia,
Lydia Barnett it this way and he just looks. It's
so great. He looks, I mean he he's got tags

(34:09):
on all of the costumes that or pieces of the
costume that he's and he just it's pure joy, just
goes for it to this entire I think it's a
publishing house of some sort, or at least an imprint
of a publishing house in the middle of New York
City and this giant high rise building and he's singing

(34:30):
to her about how she's one of free membership well
like video Spot, which is so ridiculous that a video
store would send a guy to an office, but it's
like it somehow works in this movie. It's so great.
And the other the other part I loved was before
that happens when he's first getting to know Jack. Yes,
when he's sitting in his lap like a baby, cradling

(34:53):
him like a little baby, and he's talking about how
he used to do summer stock and ye. But there's
dude that the movie does this thing where it hits
you with truth. It does it a couple of times
it does it right in that scene, and then almost
immediately after it, it does it with Tom Waits, um

(35:13):
and so so first, so first, just just a hit,
um our our cabaret singer's character, what's his name in
the movie that's bugging me now? I think I was
looking at him IMDb and I looked at Michael. I
think it says homeless cabaret singer for Michael Jeter said
they didn't even give him a name. Didn't even give

(35:34):
him a name. Um. And I wonder if it if
the character got bigger in the movie or something, because
Michael Jeter was so damn the show really so. But
we're in this moment where they're at the hospital because
Michael Jeter's character, you know, needed help. They found him,
I think, in the dirt and horse crap and he

(35:57):
was just crying for help, and so Perry and Jack
take him to the hospital and they're sitting there, like
you said, Um, I'm Michael Jeter is laying across Jack
there and Jack says, when you, uh, did you lose
your mind all of a sudden or was it a

(36:18):
slow gradual process? But he but he doesn't say it
like an asshole. Yeah, because he's feeling himself also interacting,
like you said, with with what he thinks people listing
his mind. He thinks he's losing money. He's interacting with
people that society would say are mad? Are are you know?
Out of the rhyns um And he's just kind of

(36:39):
wondering where that line is and what's the truth to this?
And he he just kind of sits there for a moment, says, well,
I'm a singer by trade. He talks about summer Stock.
I could do gypsy every part back, forwards and backwards.
Then one night, right in the middle of singing funny,
suddenly it hit me, what does all of this mean?
And then but he hits you with the truth right here,

(37:02):
and he sits up. When he like he kind of
climbs up. He says that plus the fact that I
had watched all my friends die and the truth of
immediate AIDS epidemic, and it doesn't have to say anything
to explain any of that stuff. Now you understanding, You
get it if you're a living human that pays attention. Yeah,

(37:24):
And it does that all the time in this movie
where it'll it references something in regards to a character
that they've already established or they're establishing um with these
little things. Yeah, what was the time waits when there
was another good one with him where he's he's sort
of do you have the quote where he's got the

(37:45):
whole thing here? Yeah? He his character is disabled veteran.
They're in Central Station. Yeah, I think it's outside of
Grand Central Station, Grand Central. Yeah, and um, he's you know,
he's got a cup out and he opens the line
with somebow. Do you hear about Jimmy Nichols. He got
picked up yesterday for pisting on a bookstore, and then

(38:07):
you just talk about anarchy, It's like it's social anarchy
when people start pissing on bookstores. And what happens is
as this is all happening, he's he's conversing with Perry
don't remember Jack because Jack is is upset because they
don't even like make eye contact with him, and he's like,
as long as they pay, they don't have to look

(38:29):
at me or something like that. Yeah, And I think
that's something Jack begins to notice throughout again like part
of his arc there. So he watches a woman make
eye contact with him, put change, and another guy just
throw change as he's going by, and he's like, asshole,
didn't you look at you? And he just he says
that he's paying so he don't have to look, which

(38:50):
then mirrors back the way Jack had been trying to
handle things right, And it just like goes in these
cycles of um not repeating, I guess repeating in a way,
but each time it repeats a little lesson or something
like this, we get a little more light on the subject,

(39:11):
a little more of the picture. Yeah, and it is
related because it that kind of harkens back to the beginning,
when the very beginning when Jack is in the limo
with David, with his agent, David Hyde Pierce, and he says, uh,
you know, the guy's asking for money. He's what differences
a couple of quarters make anyway, And and that thread
is like very tied up very nicely later on. I

(39:31):
mean the screenplay, like I said, it is very by
the numbers, but in the most perfect ways. Everything is
tied up just so neatly throughout the movie, and this
message that these people have value is there without hitting
you over the head with it. And in fact, that's
what um, that's what drives Jack away at the end

(39:53):
for his ultimate redemption is he's in the office getting
pitched this sitcom about homeless people, but really fun homeless people,
and it's called home Free, and that's why he finally
snaps because he identifies with this, um these people that
society has turned their back on. Now like there's people

(40:15):
in a way, it's really interesting. It really is home free.
I remember cringing so hard that that was an actor
that I recognized his face playing that. Yeah went off,
he's uh, he's been and stuff. There were a couple
of little cameos like that before they were super famous.
Kathy the Jimmy early on in the PoCA Dotted Dress

(40:37):
video store. She nailed back yeah with with the and
of course that scene has the patented classic Terry Gilliam
fisheye lens shot, which you know you're going to get
in any Terry Gilliam movie. And the way if a
character is drunk or a little off and Jack has wasted. Yeah,

(40:57):
he plays such a good drunk too. I meant to
mention that, um, he plays it really realistically. I think
the way he talks and that whole sequence where he's
drunk and then goes to goes to you know, jump
off the bridge with his cinder block cinder block shoes. Yeah. Man, dude,
that whole thing with Pinocchio tied up there. Yeah, that's

(41:19):
a This is a thread through the movie too, who's
given to him by an extremely wealthy man. Man's son
who is arguing with a homeless man and a son
give him the doll. The sun almost I can't tell
if the Sun thinks that maybe he too is homeless
or can't help, but I think that's what it's saying

(41:39):
in the kid just sees a man who looks like
he needs help, and he gives him the Pinocchio doll. Again,
we're mirroring everything people. It's it's it's perfect. Just this
the innocence of this kid just sees what he sees.
There doesn't have to be any kind of motivation body. Yeah,
and then that doll is is paid forward because that's
what he ends up bringing. Well, first of all, he

(42:01):
tells Perry he can keep it when he leaves the
boiler rim, but then it comes back later and he
brings the doll to the to the hospital when he's
sort of I guess they call it a coma, but
it seems a little more like catatonia um um really quickly.
Just because you mentioned the video store thing and we're
talking about Katheen to Jimmy, can we there's one line

(42:24):
in there, uh from Jack I know what you're gonna say.
Go ahead, you know that line, Chuck, I'm gonna I'm
gonna read the crazed video customer again. That's how IMDb
calls it. Here here, here you go. What I'm in
the mood for is a sort of Katherine Hepburny carry
granty kind of thing. Nothing heavy, I couldn't take heavy.

(42:44):
Something zany, I'm looking. I'm looking for something zany or
something modern would be fine too, like a Goldie Hawny,
Chevy Chasey kind of thing. You know, funny. I want
to laugh. I wanna laugh tonight. Really? Oh do you
have anything with that comedian? Oh, he's the one on
that show on the radio, You know, the guy who says, hey,
forgive me, I get such a kick out of the way.
He says that he's so goddamn adorable. That would be perfect.

(43:07):
Did he make a movie? And then that Jeff Bridges
gives her some porn ordinary people's ordinary peoples and says,
this is more of a big titty, spread, cheeky kind
of thing. You're gonna love it, and she's just traumatized. Well,
and the other thing, it's funny, it's very sly. But
the other thing that little exchange does is it indicates

(43:28):
that not only did uh that person do a TV show,
but then they went on to do a movie, and
that's where Jack would be um instead of working in
a video store. And by the way, does this movie
not make you miss video stores? It's almost like a
love song to video stores. Like every meeting is in
the porn room, like every closed door. You don't even

(43:49):
realize it. You don't realize at first until the one
guy is in there and she's like, get out of here.
What do you what do you what do you want
to take this story? What do you want story here?
Take this? It is one like three things, and are
so many scenes that sort of just kind of dumb
recurring bit of the video boxes falling and that happens
a couple of times with Lydia and Perry, and then
at the end when Jack and a come back together

(44:11):
and they're kissing and all the boxes fall down on
top of them. But man, it really makes me miss
walking around a video store looking at those boxes. Man,
and it's nostalgia, I guess, because it's so easy to
stream something. But man, it was great. It was a
social scene, you know. It was people vying for the
same thing. It was. It was checking that Blockbuster cart

(44:31):
of things that were returned but not shelved yet to
see if the movie that was not on the shelf
was there. Yes, exactly, because you're excited. Then the excitement
of not knowing whether what you want is going to
be there. Yeah, it's almost like, I don't know. Den
the possibility of being denied something is a human thing
that's been lost in a lot of ways, you know,

(44:53):
like you you don't there's no chance. I mean very
few things aren't available to stream. I guess it's supposed
there are some if you're really going to go deep
into some weird like little known art house movie, but
generally you can get whatever you want whenever you want
it in the in a second. And the possibility of
racing to that store because you and your friends are like,
oh dude, we need to watch whatever, like is it

(45:16):
gonna be there? Yeah, there was something about that that
was exciting. No, you're you're absolutely right, and just thinking
about the fact that this movie, now you all you
have to do is start a free trial of a
thing that most people already have. So you didn't even
have a She didn't have a the VCR. Yeah, Lydia

(45:38):
doesn't have a VCR. He said, well you're gonna get when,
no problem it comes with the VCR. Aunt slaps um
real quick that you know. She mentioned Katherine Hepburn and
that just reminded me. And remember one of my favorite
lines from Michael Jeter when he's was sitting in Jack's
lap and he finally just sized and goes, why can't
I be Katherine Hepburn? Yeah, dude, so great man. And

(46:08):
uh so maybe we should talk about The Red Knight
for a little bit. When you first get that glimpse
of the Red Knight, it's so awesome. So Terry Gilliam, like,
this is a pretty straight ahead movie for him, but
he still has his flashes of gilliam esque, you know, fantasy,
and the design of that Red Knight is just fucking amazing.

(46:31):
I wrote down it's yeah, it looks and Currel I
wrote down a description if you would if you wouldn't
mind me just saying it and holds up like it.
It looks no less cool like thirty years later or whatever.
Come on, incredible and well there's more to talk about
with the Red Knight. I just wrote down when he
when that when we first get him, after Jack starts

(46:55):
to try and talk to Perry about his other personality
who he used to be. Yeah, he triggered the PTSD
and I just wrote down full metal armor, helmet, horns,
flames emitting from his head, wields a sword, tattered flags
draped behind him. They look like blood and sinew spray
from a shotgun blast, but a moving still image. He

(47:16):
rides a crimson horse with black armored garments. The horse
expels smoke from its nostrils. This is truly terrifying. Yeah,
it really is. I mean it's it's scary, and I
think that's one of the things that he had to
do for this movie was to make it genuinely scary
in those scenes, to be genuinely scary and really um
upsetting for the viewer. Oh yeah, it couldn't have been

(47:38):
any like, like less scary and had the same impact.
But you know, I never thought about how it is
a symbol symbolic thing of of the man who killed
his wife. Um. But but I I always thought of
it that way. I was like, oh, yeah, so that's
the stand in for the fear that he has, the PTSD,

(48:00):
death coming and loss. But at the same time, the
red and the way again, I think it's something to
do with those tattered flags, that kind of envelope the
Red Knight and the way they flow. It looks very
similar to the scene that we are that we get

(48:20):
in the moment when Rob when Robin Williams character Perry
gives up when he's back at the bridge and he
just he gives in to the sadness, to the pain,
to all of it. When the Red Knight shows back
up with those guys, the same guys and they take

(48:41):
the switchblade to him. Um, I realized that because in
that moment you actually, for the first time get to
see his wife get shot, and you see the way
her head, her brains, her blood and everything splatters directly
onto his face. And something about that image it just

(49:04):
it's so symbolic of the way the Red Knight flows. Yeah,
I mean that was he that was his manifestation of
his PTSD and that and you see that in his
uh in the boiler room when he has drawn it out. Um,
every every image of the Red Knight that he's drawn
out has that it looks like a head exploding. It
looks like blood splatter or blood spatter coming out. And

(49:26):
then it all ties up when you see how it
really went down, and that's and that's how it manifested itself.
It's so creative and smart the way they did that.
I think I just never got it in my younger
I don't think as fully as Yeah I did this time. Yeah, absolutely, dude.
The shadow on the wall in that same scene where
they're under the bridge again, he's like giving up. Uh,

(49:49):
the shadow of the Red Knight on the wall as
the punks show up in their jeep. Yeah, got weapons.
It's just gorgeous in just awfully terrifying. Um. Oh man,
the whole sequence where what is I think Perry says
he's afraid of you, Jack. I think it's pretty early

(50:10):
on when they see the encounter of the Red Knight
and they're chasing the Red Knight through Central Park. Um,
and you get to watch in slow motion as the
Red Knight is galloping like just beyond the trees when
you can't really see him he's just out of focus.
He's just out of you. Um. That makes things, you know.

(50:32):
I think we've talked about this before, but not fully
being able to see makes it so much scarier and
so much more intense. And the excitement of chasing that
the childlike excitement that Perry had knowing that something was
happening to where his fear was. It was running away
for some reason. Um, yeah, and it was. And he

(50:55):
does say, it's afraid of you, Jack, And what he's
saying is that you're the one who can heal me,
like you can literally chase away my PTSD through through
your eventual selfless act. M. Yeah, Like I think Perry
knows that Jack is capable that Jack doesn't know it. Yes,

(51:16):
but in a weird way. And just tell me what
you think about this. The guy, the actual killer that
was his name Edwin Edwin. He was essentially a follower
of Jack, a big fan of Jack, someone who could
be controlled by Jack in all likelihood and was controlled
by Jack. Um the man. The man believed Jack's words

(51:42):
so much that he went out and he committed a
mass shooting because of Jack's words. And in this weird way,
he Edwin would have been afraid of Jack. If Jack
would have told him a different thing, if Jack would
have guided him in a different way, he probably would
have gone that way. Yeah, which is funny. I never
really thought about it until just now, but it's he's

(52:02):
also mentally ill edwin is and um, the undercurrent of
mental illness through this whole thing, and the and the
different representations of it is really fascinating. I think, well, yeah,
And and the question it asked a couple of times,
including the one where we get to see Tom Waits
and even Jack in the beginning and a couple of

(52:23):
other people, is who are really the mentally ill within
our society? Right? Is it the slightly more eccentric people
who actually you know who that we're seeing representations of
in this film, or is it you know as as
the disabled veteran says, again, that's the character name? Is

(52:44):
it the person going to work nine to five, the
person spending all of their time and money or all
of their time and efforts for someone else's dream? What
are they actually achieving? What are they getting with all
the material wealth that there finding through those uh, through
those endeavors? Um? Like, what does what does all any

(53:05):
of that mean? And isn't that person crazy or isn't
that person at least off because society says it's right
and the thing we should do. But what's right about that? Yeah?
And you can even make the case that Lydia is
a depressive agoraphobe. Um kind of clearly is. And then
you know she has that. The way that she and

(53:26):
Mercedes rule their relationship and the way that that is
played is so great because you know, Mercedes rule initially
is like who's this Lydia? Who's this Lydia? She's kind
of jealous. Then she finds out, but she's still not,
Oh yeah, like we totally should help them. She's kind
of like fighting in a little bit. You know, you
get your membership for you know, for a year, and

(53:48):
they're they're kind of going at it in the video store.
She's like, and then it costs me money. She's like, yeah,
it costs you two nine per rental. And you know
they have this whole sort of tete a tete and
then end up at the apart it together and that
scene is so great when they bond, they finally start drinking,
and the line where it turns is, uh, she's trying
to give Lydia confidence, and she does so by saying,

(54:11):
you may not know this about yourself, but you can
be a real bitch. And Lydia hears that. It's kind
of like I can, like, oh my god, like because
that gives her power. You know, it's not a drugatory
term in that sense. It's like what she means is
you can be a real feisty person. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

(54:31):
I loved that scene, and especially when we cut away
from essentially that moment back to Perry getting his his
pants Staples suit taylored, Yeah, giant baggy linen suit. Yeah,
it was really great. But the moment when the guys
come back to the apartment and just discover them clearly

(54:55):
tipsy on tequila and having entirely too much fun. Yeah,
the enters you from that moment forward in that scene
that we already went over to Chinese restaurant is just glorious. Yeah,
And it's sort of right before that. I wanted to
point this out, as you know, Jack has a very small,
small line and moment where it's clear that he's fully

(55:16):
kind of turned into um, accepting Perry and all all
of the other people as real people and people with
value is when and he doesn't make a big deal
about it, but Ann says something about this moron, and
he goes, he's not a moron, and that's he defends
him for the first time. To Ann, Uh, it's not

(55:38):
like I'm trying to help this crazy guy. Like he's like,
he's not a moron. He and the the ellipsus is
he's a man with value and he's a man who
was a professor and who had something taken away from
him because of me. Like that's all said in that
one line. It's just so beautiful. I love that part.
So let's talk about the elephant in the room, which

(56:00):
is the Grand Central Station. Waltz. Okay, this is this
is the elephant. I didn't realize this. This was the
elephant to me. This is the shot and the sequence
of the movie and and one of and and I'm
not being hyperbolic here. I think one of the great
iconic New York movie sequences of all time is because

(56:21):
that room is so iconic and if you've ever stood
in that room, it's just you can't do it ever
again without thinking of this. Every time I stand in
that room, the main hallway of Grand Central Station, I
can only think of people waltzing. Uh, And it's um
a room that's always impossibly crowded because it's such a

(56:42):
hub of of trains, the commuter trains and subways. And
to be able to even logistically pull this off with
four hundred extras waltzing from I think they shot it
from like, you know, nine or ten at night to
five am when the trains reopened, and they they're like,
there's how much time. You got a very incredibly difficult

(57:03):
thing to pull off. And the way they set it
up is so beautiful, like her sort of weaving through
the people, and it's not this It happens gradually. It's
not this big thing that's all of a sudden happening.
You see just a couple of people dancing behind her,
and and when you first see the movie, you're like,
what was that? And then more people are dancing and more,
and it builds and builds with the music, and then

(57:24):
you can get the crescendo of that big wide overhead
shot with the mirror ball, and it's just fucking perfect.
It's got chills. Yeah, yeah, I agree. The the sea
of humans moving as one in that iconic space with
our two protagonists um or at least are or the

(57:47):
person we're following as a hero. In that moment, Perry
just enchanted, not even noticing that all of this is
happening around him yet it's in his mind. You know,
this is one of the fantasy aspects of the movie
where it's not based in reality at all, and he's
they're still sort of bobbing through the people, and and
then the way they get out of that scene, how
it just sort of rushes all back to normal. It's

(58:10):
just it's it's so masterful. It's one of my favorite
sequences in a movie. It feels like something in a
movie now you'd use uh, special effects for absolutely, dude,
this this was These were real. These were four people
nuns and sailors and business people and Hasidic Jews and
you know, homeless people. And they were all dancing, you know,

(58:31):
men dancing with men. It was just uh. And in fact,
I think the first people you see are two men
waltzing behind Lydia. Yeah, and she comes in with nuns
and a priest. I never noticed that before. I wonder
if that's symbolic in some way that I just didn't
really sure it has something, but then yeah, like you said,

(58:52):
the representation of of couples that are just dancing or
just people who are dancing together. Um, they do that.
They do that same thing a couple of times in
the movie with um Perry and Jack joking about men
with men in a couple of scenes and like that
when they're naked together, like essentially just saying it does

(59:14):
not matter. That's to me what the movie says the
entire time. Does not matter who you were, It doesn't
matter you know, Yeah, what your orientation and any of
that stuff is. It's just love. In the end, It's
love and that's it. Well, because the Jeep guys are
using homophobic slurs. Uh, Michael Jeter's character is is clearly
gay and Jack is like cradling him like a little baby.

(59:35):
Uh so yeah, that's another message. There's so many sort
of subtle messages that I didn't really as a twenty
year old pick up on with valuing the homeless and
U and the message about being gay and being accepted.
It's it's really a sweet, sweet movie is about this
is the thing I wanted to tell you. Oh dang it,

(59:57):
I've lost it here. The one scene, according to according
to an interview I was watching on the YouTube's the
one scene that was not written by lager events Um,
the writer of the screenplay, was that Grand Central station scene. Yeah,

(01:00:17):
and you know that. Did you see what the original
scene was? I remember it was similar, but it was not.
It was in a different place, right. It was a
big yeah, I mean it was. It was also a
scene that could have been very sweet and symbolic in
the in that same way was I think that they
were going to be on a subway and this homeless
black woman starts singing this really beautiful song that like

(01:00:38):
people aren't really noticing, but Jack really locks in on
and has a special moment, and that could have been
a nice scene. But I think the story goes is
that it was at Grand Central and Terry Gilliam there
when they were scouting, was up on there you can
get up on the top steps and sort of looked
down from that angle and he saw that big sea
of people and he said, what if they just started
dancing and waltzing and we're and everyone was in love.

(01:01:02):
And he was like, what a sweet scene that would be.
And he said that's the only thing that he changed,
and and it was a big change. I mean as
far as logistics and costs, like, I'm sure a pretty
expensive tough thing to pull off. Yeah, compared to the
first iteration, Well, what a vision to be able to
see it yeah and make it, you know, make it happen.

(01:01:24):
So Harry ends up in his coma, which really sets
up that final leg of the Redemption so well. I mean,
it's a movie that's close to two and a half
hours long, and you can make an argument that that
last twenty minutes you could have done another way. But
I think it's a richer movie because of it, with

(01:01:45):
the silliness of breaking in, with getting that chalice with Perry,
which ends up being like a trophy or something. But
it doesn't matter. You know, it's the symbol um. You
want me to tell you what it said? Yeah, well,
in it down just because I found it so amusing. Uh.
It says to little Lanny Carmichael for all his work

(01:02:07):
ps like public school to Christmas pageant, Christmas padget that's right.
But what you also get because they do it this
way is he uh, he saves the old man's life.
Remember that great little newspaper headline thwarted Burglary saves uh,
Like accidental overdose or whatever accidental suicide thwarted by night Prowler.

(01:02:29):
It could have been spelled K and I g h
D too, you know, I think that's the play on words.
But one of the things I love so much about
how they do it is that you get Perry in
that catatonic state and Jack comes back, and there's that
moment where he sees Lydia and realizes she's been going there.
One of the most brutally sweet and sad parts of

(01:02:53):
the movie is that this man that she had one
kiss with, uh, this like homeless guy like right afterward,
sort of loses his mind with PTSD and goes into
a catatonic state, and she's been going every day like
she's his wife, I know, dude, And it's she talks
about lime sheets like I brought limes sheets for watermelons

(01:03:16):
on them and I just need to make sure they're clean,
and and they're like, yeah, they were dirty. There's like
a hypo. There's a problem with the hypo and the
doctor and all. All she is concerned about is whether
or not he's okay. Well, yeah said, and when you
see him, he's you know, stands out against all those
white bed linens and white and white pajamas with his

(01:03:37):
colorful stuff, and it's because of her. It's really a
great moment, and and underplayed like it's not. He didn't
make a big deal about it as a director. I
think it's just sort of there in the background, and
and Jack is sort of hiding from her, you know,
he didn't want to be seen. Yet. Can I jump
around for one moment here in that same moment where
we where we get the cabaret singer talking about why

(01:03:59):
can't I be Catherine and Heathurn and all of that,
whether here in the hospital, Harry, as he does throughout
the movie and many scenes, is trying to get people
to sing with him New York and June, Yeah, I like, okay,
I can't say, but he's trying to get all of
these patients to sing. And this guy says, I'm in

(01:04:22):
the wrong place. He's in a straight jacket, and Perry says,
aren't we all? And then uh, there's the whole time
you're getting this shot. There is a person who looks
comatose in the foreground, very close to you, and and
I can't remember if he's in focus or not focus.
With Rob Williams and everyone, but he's got a terrible

(01:04:44):
head wound and he's just he's taking up most of
the frame, just sitting there staring at you. This whole time,
all of this is going on, and Perry's trying to
get everyone to sing, and then uh, Perry goes over
to the person in the foreground and just kind of
like looks at him like, it's your turn to sing.
And there's the perfect pause and there's no cut. It
is the perfect pause, and he says, don't hold back,

(01:05:06):
and then he just keeps going. That's one of the
great Robin Williams moments. I mean, I think he adhered
to the scripts pretty faithfully, but there are a few
moments where Robin Williams is Robin Williams. That in the
uh Oh, I Got a Heart on for you the
size of Florida, it's so Robin Williams and it kind
of annoyed me. Roger Ebert in that same review made

(01:05:28):
an argument that Robin Williams is best when he doesn't
do movies that are made for Robin Williams, and this
movie was made for him, and he's better when he
doesn't do that. And I'm like, man, he's great all
the time, like he's great in Dead Poets, Society and
movies where he plays against type of bit because he
was a great actor. But he's also one of the

(01:05:50):
great comics of our time, and so let him be
Robin Williams. There's nothing wrong with that. Roger Ebert, Well,
I I could couldn't agree more. And the reason why
it's so important that he has that dichotomy, those two
things going for him at all times is that scene
you're talking about, a crass line such as I've got

(01:06:11):
a heart on yes for you the size of Florida
is followed by but I don't want just one night,
and then he he tells you about the rest of
the stuff and he he goes down to, um, I
love you, I love you, and I think you're the
greatest thing since Spice Racks, which is silly, that's great,

(01:06:33):
And lady says, and I've been knocked out several times
and if I could just have that first kiss, yeah,
I mean, he's never more together than he is with
her that night. Um, she has his redemption. And you know,
he has a great line where he says, you know,
we just met, made love and broken up all in
the span of like thirty seconds when she's saying of

(01:06:53):
like how bad it's gonna go? There they are each
other's redemption. Jack and Perryer each other's redemption, and and
Jack each other's redemption. I love redemption stories, and this
is it all over the place. It's redemption. You know,
it's great. It's like, it's not too much. It's really
not too much. Oh h well, then you know we

(01:07:13):
end with the the great call back to the when
they're both naked in the park. That's that great final
scene when Jack has his clothes off, and just that
sweet conversation they have, and the way they end it
with the buildings lighting up and the fireworks. It's just
it's just such a celebration I think of people and

(01:07:33):
people helping people. The way it ends is just so uplifting.
I think, Yeah, Jack says, hey, look they're moving. Am
I doing that? So? Are you crazy? Oh? Shoot? That's one.
That's the thing that happens throughout the whole movie, the
times when Jack speaks to God or does a throwaway

(01:07:54):
to somebody else he's thinking about, and just who are
you talking to? That is really great. That's a great
effect that that has. Yeah, that's wonderful stuff because like
Jack's the one that's crazy all of a sudden. Yeah,
it just makes you feel It really does make you
feel good. And you know, they're like a lot of

(01:08:15):
the movies we've been looking at from the nineties together
Truck that it does have some problems with, you know,
just some of the terminology, some of the things that
tries to tackle um, some of the views. Like I mean,
it does the whole movie. Nothing would happen in this
movie if it weren't for a mass shooting event, right,

(01:08:37):
So there are tough things to look at in this
movie and ways to pick little things apart. But I
think overall the intentions behind it, behind the writing, behind
the direction, behind the performances that you get, it just
ends up being this beautiful picture of what caring about

(01:08:58):
other people looks like and how to do it and yeah,
I can't buy your way out of it. Yeah, and
all the riches in the world and all the success
in the world doesn't matter if you're not living your
best life, you know. And he and Anne coming together
at the end, it's so great that scene where she's
doing all the talking. She's like, you can't do this.

(01:09:20):
You can't just come in here and just stand there
and make me do all the work. Uh. And he's
just like a little kid. The thing is, you know,
I love you. She shuts, she shuts the door to
their porn rooms. Like I didn't get that. I didn't
quite get that great moment. Mercedes Rule is just so

(01:09:40):
great in this movie. Man, God, she destrot that Oscar.
He gives her the flowers in that moment, and I
wrote down flowers who cares. Yeah, she's so great and
so real, Like I want to think that he got
his success and she ended up with that great apartment
and they ended up together and and live next door

(01:10:01):
to Lydia and Jack you know or Barry. Yeah, oh yeah,
that's how this movie ends in my mind. It really
did they all just lived together. Maybe they maybe they
move into the castle. Yeah, I don't know. All to
everybody together happily ever after so good and I don't
want to keep going back and we need we need
to take off of and I know we have to

(01:10:23):
end here. We're talking forever, and I would talk about
this movie a lot more. Uh. There's a scene just quickly,
there's a scene where Anne appears to be having a
conversation with Jack and she's braiding him, just like like
I made this lasagna. I'm waste, You're a waste of
good lasagna. I did all this, I'm cooking, I'm doing

(01:10:45):
all this. And you get that lovely pullback where, oh,
you realize she's just talking to herself or the absent
Jack conversation. She can't really tell him off in real
life like she wants to, and she wants you so
many times. But in the end, he does deserve wait,
he completely deserves it. But to her there's something like

(01:11:09):
we keep talking about that's deeper, that's moving deeper, and
she cares about him more than he hurts her, which
is tough. Again, it's like it's a tough thing to tackle.
But yeah, Jesus, movie does it. Good stuff? Brother man,
We always have great talks about these movies, Mannie. I

(01:11:29):
couldn't agree more. Man, it's one of my favorite things.
That's one of my favorite things to do me too.
So do you have an idea of the next one
or you gotta ruminate? Oh lord, I I I don't
unless you want to do something off the wall like
Nicolas Cage style, like like any Nicolas Cage. Have you

(01:11:50):
seen some of his recent stuff that's like more borderline horror,
like Man out of Space. We're the sweetheart, guys. We
gotta talking about these fun movies. I think we should
do something else from the nineties. Okay, let's let's stick
in the nineties, don't we can go go anywhere in
the nineties, because it's an interesting dichotomy because I'm seeing

(01:12:11):
these movies in college. You're seeing these movies as a kid.
But somehow we you know, I think we're like minded folks,
so it sort of works in an interesting way. I
think dig it. All right, I'm I'm gonna look in
the early nineties era just to see if there's something there.
All Right, Um, when was Good Morning Vietnam? Have you
already done that? Have not great movie? I mean, we

(01:12:33):
don't have to stick with Rob Williams, but that movie,
um affected me pretty heavily as the same and it's
like a it's a drama, but it's also just got
such comedy to it. Oh, I'm feeling like we might
have to do it. I'm gonna think a little more. Okay,
We're gonna do a Robin Williams. Sweet We don't have
to I just man, he's one of my faiths. So

(01:12:55):
there's no thing in that he looks a lot like
my dad, or I should say my dad like Robin Williams,
especially in this era in the in the nineties. Interesting, um,
and I had this thing going on. I don't know
if you were talking about this year, but I like
saw my father on screen. And my father was an
actor and a director and he did a lot of
these things. So every time I watched Robin on screen,

(01:13:18):
a part of me sees my dad and it's this
weird thing, but it works. It makes me happy. That's awesome. Man.
All right, well can seeing you, my friend, and thanks
to everyone for listening, and we look forward to Maddie
coming back, right everybody, right, sure, get on here, Hey, alright,

(01:13:39):
Thanks by everyone. Movie Crash was produced and written by
Charles Bryant and Roll Brown, edited and engineered by Seth
Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Merl Brown here in our
home studio at Pontsy Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your

(01:13:59):
favorite US