Filmmaker Series: Adam Pranica on Phantom Thread

Adam is back to wrap up their Paul Thomas Anderson series with his most recent masterwork, Phantom Thread.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.

(00:28):
Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush Friday Interview edition
filmmaker series with my old friend Dadam Pranica. Oh that's nice.
Who has a nice soap opera glow on his face?
You know, not enough people sing my name. I've been
really missing that sing my name, Sing my name and

(00:53):
the how it goes. Yeah, Hey, buddy, good to see you.
Just great to see you. It's been a while since
we've done one of these. It has been a while.
I think we both kind of secretly been sad about
completing this project for now. As we all know, Paul
Thomas Anderson has a film coming out this year, premiering

(01:16):
it Can I believe? Right, Yeah, I think so, and
kind of getting back to his I don't know about
his roots, but sort of a story less like there
will be blood and Phantom Limb and more like Boogie Nights.
It sounds like, yeah, maybe he watched Once upon a
Time in Hollywood and he was like, fuck you, I

(01:37):
can do it better. Yeah, And of course it won't
be like Boogie Boogie Nights, but it's it's not a
movie with probably people that are loathsome and awful. I
didn't realize this until I started doing a little bit
of research for this film. But this is like what
four period pieces in a row for Paul Thomas Anderson,
and I hadn't realized that until reading that, And I'm

(02:00):
I'm kind of happy for him to go back to
the valley. At least I know his next movie is
going to be a period movie too. But like he's
such a like California and Paul Thomas Anderson are like
hand and glove, you know. Yeah, So before we get going,
we like to talk about what we're drinking, because that's
what you and I do traditionally, is we go at

(02:21):
about nine pm my time, six pm your time, and
you're drinking a big old fish bowl or something that
a martini. It is. I was trying. I try to
match my drink to the movie when it's possible. Well, fuck, dude,
why didn't you tell me you were having a martini?
I would have had a martini. Well, the last time
you and I talked to Martiniz, you sprung it on

(02:43):
me that that you were having one, and I was like, oh,
that sounds really nice. And then you took a picture
from your bathtub where you were drinking it. That is
very true. I had a bathtub martini like Arthur style. Yeah,
like I think that's the first time and the only
time I've were done that, by the way, because when
you send someone a picture like that, what you're kind

(03:03):
of saying is I'm doing the ritual, right, But it
was I've only ever had shower beers. I've never had
bath tub Martiniz. I feel like you're doing it better.
Highly recommended. Yeah. Yeah, tonight, I'm having a double martini
in a giant punch bowl of a Martini glass and
it's got it's not clear because I'm using aged vermouth

(03:27):
in here. And give me just the rundown of what
what is in that thing? Oh, it's uh, it's St.
George Gin. It's this aged vermouth. It's a couple of
couple of skeets of of orange bitters and then three olives.
All right, and you don't go dirty, right, you're just
straight up I don't, but I used to. I feel

(03:48):
like everyone's first martini is the dirty martini, right, Like
that's that's the onboarding process for people when they start
drinking Martiniz. I know it was mine and most of
my friends started out that way. But I am anti
dirty now I am like, give it to me hot,
like like like that cold fire, right like an ice
cold Martini is is one of the great flavors. I

(04:11):
don't need. I don't need the olive juice in there,
Get it out of there. Are you saying that I'm,
you know, somehow a lesser martini drinker. No, I'm not
saying that at all. I'm saying I'm stating my personal
preference and I'm sharing with you my journey. But when
you say things like I feel like most jerk offs
when they first try our martini, it's like this, people

(04:35):
drinking martini is not in a bathtub, and it just sucks. Man.
That's just not the way to enjoy them. How do
you like yours? You know, I go dirty, but I
go I don't eat olives. I don't care for olives,
but I do like that brine. So you're dirty with
a limit twist and a little bit. I like that combo.
So you have olives in the house, you don't eat
the olives, you're just or do you buy the Brian?

(04:59):
I buy dirty sue olive juice? How about that bottled
and sent right to your door, big fan of Dirty Sue.
Dirty Sue buys all the olives, makes the juice, and
then just throws them away. Right. It sounds like a
real wasteful process. If you ask me, well, if Dirty

(05:20):
Sue is smart, she'd be in bed with an olive
oil maker. Actually I don't. I don't even know how
they get the olive oil brine. I mean, that's not
olive juice, is it. It's a coincidence that Dirty Sue
is also your stripper name. It really is. Um I
wish I had known, No, no problem, not mad. As

(05:40):
you can see, I have a giant glass of red wine. Yeah,
this glass is so big, I kind of want to
hold it with two hands. I'm used to seeing vessels
that size made out of wood by a Cooper. I'm
having Jacob Franklin Petizzera nap of alley M really yummy.

(06:03):
You know, now that I'm living in California, you know
your next trip out here, you got to go up
to wine country man enjoy some wine hangs. I'm all
about it. In fact, we uh, I should just let
you know because we're gonna do a wine trip with
our best friends own a wine shop here in town,
right up the street. I like a friend from college

(06:23):
and his his partner, and they have never been to
Nappa in Sonoma. So we're gonna just do a trip
with him at some point. I should let's just let
you guys know when that's happening. Please do that'd be great.
You can just drive on up. You and I have
had some great wine hangs over the years. I'm looking
forward to more, indeed, but I'll stick with the wine.

(06:44):
My urges to to plus. Just down the toilet right now,
giant Martini. Just finish and then drop a pin in
the in the time code. Here you go up and
get your second round. Oh boy, well this is already
two rounds, so I think this will do it. Yeah,
I mean, how much of a bottle fits in that
giant glass? Uh? Well, I didn't want to have to
go upstairs, so this is a hefty two glasses in

(07:07):
one glass. I see. That's just being that's just being
smart right there. Yeah, that's doing a podcast style. Yeah.
Have you done another round on movie Crush? No, man,
I haven't seen it yet. I have heard great things,
and it is it is not just a cursory on
my list it is high, high on my list of
a film that was. Yeah, man, I can't wait. And

(07:29):
of course they're remaking it with I think Leonardo Dicabrio. Yeah,
I mean, what are you gonna do? I think I've
learned not to approach Eleo DiCaprio movie with any sort
of consternation, like he's great, he's gonna he's gonna do
a great job. But that original is a special film. Yeah.

(07:49):
I think it said in that way because it's just like,
of course, amazing foreign film. American person goes, oh well,
let me do that same movie a couple of years later. Yeah,
but I get it. Yeah, you can't me money on
the table at him. You know who who plays a
great drunk, Leo DiCaprio. Not to go back to Once

(08:10):
upon a time in Hollywood, but oh no, that guy
does a great act drunk. You know what I'm says
he does, and I think we do it well in
real life. I know, so classy drunk. So you and
me the kind you want to be around. Like, no
one likes an angry drunk, a thrower or a yell er.
We're just we're gigglers. Boy. I remember the very first

(08:31):
time I ever legit got drunk in college because it
didn't drink in high school. I was straight and narrow.
But I got drunk my freshman year in college and
these girls took me out, fellow freshman who knew I
didn't drink. They were like, Oh, we're gonna take you
out and get you drunk, and so these uh, these
two girls took me out and I got drunk on

(08:52):
the Sex in the beach is sex in the beaches,
sexes on the beach. I don't even know what's in
that st I just know they were like, this is
nice and a lot of sugar, if I remember correctly,
And I just remember being in love with the world
man for the very first time that I drank a
lot like that, and they were just laughing. They were like,

(09:13):
you're just love and life, aren't you. You're having fun? Oh? Yes,
isn't that the goal? I feel very fortunate to be
wired the way that I am for for consumption like this.
I fully recognize and appreciate that many people aren't. Many
people have the problem or the curse. Yeah, I'm glad
I'm not cursed in that way because I do enjoy

(09:34):
what it does for me. Yeah, you know what I've
never done when I've been drinking. I wanted to start
a fight? No, yeah, sober for that matter, Yeah, no,
not at all. And you know what the main reason is,
I don't never want to get punched in the face
in my life. Yeah, Nor does it sound fun to
punch anyone else in the face. It sounds very painful

(09:56):
for the hand. Yeah, it sounds a little more enjoy
well than getting punched in the vase. But yeah, that's
where I stopped. Yeah, I think we've talked about it before.
You're not gonna go pick a fight with some money together?
Oh right? At that point? Or were we going to
fight each other? There was something? And uh? And the
reason is like, between the two of us, the odds
are pretty good that one of us won't be punched

(10:18):
in the face. All right, man, so let's get into it.
We of course will cover that. Whenever the new PTA
gets released, we'll see that and do it do it
live or not live? But you know, soon after it
comes out, Oh yeah, let's rent out a movie theater
do it live. I wonder if they're gonna still do that. God,

(10:40):
I don't know have you done that yet? The are
you're talking about during COVID, like where you could rent
the theater out for a hundred bucks or whatever. Uh.
I wanted to do that very badly, but no theaters
within like hundreds of miles of me made that possible,
so they didn't play play that game. That's right, they
were no. I think you could do it in Seattle.

(11:01):
I was envious of that, but I couldn't do it
down here? Could you? Did you? Uh? We can? I
did not. My daughter went to a birthday party um
where her friends had rented a theater for like thirteen girls,
and Emily went to that. It was not able to
go because I was podcasting, but she said it was
a lot of fun. I bet I have not been

(11:23):
back to a movie theater yet. I still haven't either.
I'm ready. I just are they even open? And Elliott
probably not? Uh they are Here's I don't like. I
understand the fun of ripping the band aid off and
going back to see like God Dela versus King Kong
or something, but I kind of want my first movie
back to be like good, Yeah, you see too. I

(11:45):
thought about a quiet place to this week, and it
never aligned with my schedule, and I think that'll is
supposed to be pretty good for what it is. But
I'm kind of with you. I wanted to be a
great movie. Yeah, yeah, I do too, And uh, I'm
not I'm not up to speed on on the release

(12:05):
calendar either. I feel like things are just coming back
online now to where we're starting to get an understanding
of when you're I don't know when when your tent
pole movies are coming out. Well, I know you and
I I mean, if we don't see Top Gun together,
then there's something wrong. Gott to see Top Gun together.
I gotta tell you, I don't know if if you

(12:28):
edit things like this out of the show. So maybe
you will. And I'm sorry for saying. I quite coincidentally, uh,
and and Poker buddies with the writer of the new
Top Gun movie, and it is taking everything in my
power not to just nerd out on this guy and
ask a million questions. Holy cow. Yeah, I'm not gonna

(12:50):
edit that out unless you feel like he would not
want the world to know he plays poker. No, I mean,
the guy is super cool, and I'm I'm like, I'm
like shape a king playing poker, like right with all
the questions I have, But what a great movie. What
a great opportunity for that, like to make that your
first movie? Back when is that supposed to be out? Like,

(13:14):
I don't know. I mean, they've certainly got a backlog
of films they have had in the Bond movie and
the Black Widow movie. We've got everything from last year,
and then they also started making movies again at some point,
so I'm sure there's some other new stuff. I got
all these olives in front of me. I feel like
I can't eat the olives on our show because of Saponia.
I'm gonna I'm gonna eat an olive. I'm just gonna.

(13:35):
I'm hoping you're gonna vamp here, all right, I will
vamp Let's get into Phantom Thread. This is the last
movie that he has made because we've been going in order. Uh.
This is another movie with Daniel day Lewis. Yea. This
is a movie. One of the great foreheads in all
of film. Um. This is a movie that deviates from

(13:59):
the the father son dynamic into a mother's son situation.
Even though the mother in this film has passed on,
she does appear via a vision at one point, and
she very much just looms large as a whole don't
you think it's a very hereditary type scene when she appears,
right it is? It looks like a horror movie for

(14:22):
a second. Yeah, yeah. I kept playing for something to
happen there, and nothing did that was really elegantly done
and not played for the jump scare anything, just played
for the mood. And it's such a mood film the
whole way. It's very consistent like that it is. I
think in another director's hands you could have you could

(14:46):
veer into sort of horror movie territory with this movie. Yeah,
if you wanted to, you'd have to change it up some,
but not a whole lot. It's interesting how much how
much genre decision can come to down to the edit.
Like I think you could make this a horror film
with no new scenes at all, just how you cut it,

(15:09):
Like you turn up the Johnny Greenwood a little bit,
or maybe you uh, you get some weirder Johnny Greenwood
and all of a sudden, I think it's right there,
especially with how intense Daniel day Lewis is in this film.
I mean, I I watched this with my wife. I
don't know if you watched this alone or not, and
it was her first time watching it, and she's very

(15:30):
much a like a fan of the costume period type
of film, and my expectation was that she would love
it m but she did not, and it was because
of uh of Woodcocks character. I just love saying that name.
I'm gonna say this as often as possible. Reynolds character is.

(15:54):
I love it every time. I feel like they didn't
overdo the dialogue that included that name either very specifically
because they knew the absurdity of the name. I guarantee
you and I agree with that. And I guarantee you
that Paul Thomas Anderson very much chuckled to himself when
he thought of that name. Yeah. I mean what I

(16:15):
read is that he he sort of pitched the idea
to two D D L and laughed and laughed about
the name of the character. And that was one of
the reasons he got him, uh, he was able to
get him involved in the film. Was It's Yeah, it's
hard to believe. It's strange credulity that, you know, Paul

(16:38):
Thomas Anderson and Daniel the Lewis would just be phone
buddies laughing about Reynolds. Woodcock is a name but from
what I read. That's how this movie got put together.
That's hysterical. Yeah, I believe it too. That's funny. Yeah,

(17:00):
it's a movie very much about power and the push
and pull of that power. It's a movie with a
great twist, kind of a double twist. Uh. And I
even have here on my notes like the beginning music
sounds like something out of a horror movie. Yeah. I

(17:23):
wonder one of the questions I had for you, And like,
just to tie off that comment about my wife watching this,
I wonder how well this film has aged for you,
because I feel like for a long time, films about
the asshole with a misunderstood genius complex and the enablers

(17:48):
they surround themselves with was like sort of a genre
of itself. And I seeing this through my wife's size,
I understood how poorly that has aged because was that
one of her beefs. Yeah, yeah, Like, like, this guy's
an asshole and he's he's cruel to people around him,

(18:11):
and obviously he is, but I also found him funny.
And there is a lot of comedy in this film.
That breakfast order for Yeah, yeah, big fun, big, big fun.
I love it. Man, he's ordering all this food I
thought I wrote it down. I love how he doesn't

(18:34):
order it all at once. It's like order, order a
piece of it, and then wait and then another and
then wait. Yeah, relsh welsh rare bit cream butter. It's
also sumptuous, you know, everything is dead and bacon, some
scones and uh. And then at the very end he
just throws in in some sausages. The move move. I

(19:01):
love this, this technique, Like I'm I'm not going to
call it a seduction technique because I don't think this
is something that Reynolds does all the time, Like I
don't feel like this is his move. But the and
I felt for a long time never do bits on tips.
This is something that that I say on The Greatest
Generation show, like like when you're be as nice as

(19:24):
you can to a service industry person and don't funk
with them, and the idea, yeah, yeah, you're you're not.
They're they're working for tips. So the idea of taking
away her her written notes of the order and and
and asking if she remembers, I have to say it
made me laugh. It was funny. It was pretty funny,

(19:46):
and it was also sort of a power control thing.
Um and I don't even think I answered your question
is so kind of go how's this age for me?
I I know that was sort of a genre, but
his movies and this movie is so like its own thing.
I kind of just have it in its own capsule.
I don't even think about it as like bad man

(20:09):
in power abusing the people around him, even though that's
what's going on. Um, and this is only the second
time I've seen it. Emily and I saw it together.
The first time, I really loved it. The uh, I
don't think so. I think we saw it at home,
and then this time I was it was a solo
watch just because she wasn't here, but she she wanted

(20:32):
to watch it again. She was kind of not upset,
but just disappointed that she didn't get to watch it again.
Um and I and I really like the movie a
lot like Paul Thomas Anderson is just like he's he's
doing something different every time out that you that you
normally see in a film, and he's working on a
different level. And I get that a lot of people

(20:54):
don't like this stuff. We said this about the Master
and there will be blood. Uh, and that's you know,
I kind of admire someone just for making the movie
he wants to make and not not necessarily to please
an audience. Totally agree, and there are so few filmmakers
who have that kind of latitude. Like I don't want
that to stop. I always want to see what Paul

(21:16):
Thomas Anderson wants to do. Yeah, I wonder where how
this came to him? And yeah, you know, I mean
what I read is he, uh, he either watched a
film or read something about Balenciaga as a as a
fashion designer, and then he just sort of went down
that rabbit hole of like the cult of personality there

(21:38):
and and came to it as kind of a new enthusiast,
which is like so interesting that that he chased down
a new interest and made a film about that. Like
that that feels like power to me. It's I mean,
the power that Paul Thomas Anderson has as a filmmaker
to just be allowed, be permitted and to have a

(22:00):
budget and go do his own thing is one thing.
But as like a creative person, there's a there's a
there's a separate but equal power that has to do
with his interests, and those interests don't necessarily align with
his strengths, like imagine being Paul Thomas Anderson and knowing
what your strengths are and going, I just learned about
the fashion industry in this era. What if I could

(22:23):
tell an interesting story here and then he goes and
does it. I think that's really admirable. It is, And
I also wonder if you know, of course, Daniel day
Lewis has supposedly retired after this film, and I believe him,
do you? I do. I think he's like a boxer.
I think I think you're picking up the phone, aren't

(22:44):
you if you're him, because you know, if the phone
is ringing, you're getting someone's best pitch. You want to
know what's out there. But he's been getting the best
pitch for a while. Yeah, he didn't have to fake retirement.
I don't know. I don't know. We'll see, but I
wonder how much he uh when he was picking his films.
I wonder how much he would choose them based on like, well,

(23:07):
I'm gonna have to learn to sew now like because
he very famously goes super method and learns how to
do these things, whether it's becoming a full on carpenter
or learning how to really so address so I wonder
if he like that. That's a lot of bad I mean,
I'm kind of joking, but I'm kind of not. I mean,
that's a lot of baggage to come with a film
like do I have it in me to learn how

(23:28):
to be a probably not a master seamsters or anything
or seemster. What would you call it? Oh, I like seemster.
I it's it has to be wrong, but yeah, but
that's why I like it. Yeah, I'm just curious about
that if he, uh, if he even considers that stuff like,
I'm going to have to do this because that's my process.

(23:50):
That's got to be part of the phone of being
an actor, though, too, is trying on the character and
living in him for as long as it takes. I mean,
you're right about his intensity and his reputation as an
intense person requires that. I mean, it's it looks believable
throughout when you see him. Yes, I read that. Vicky Creeps.

(24:15):
Is that how I pronounced her last name? You know,
I didn't look it up, but I mean I believe
if she's of German heritage, which I think she is, right,
all right, I apologize if it's not correct. I'm gonna
stay consistent. I think it's creeps if it's I E.
Like she met dd L on set, like on the
first day of shooting, which has got to be like

(24:37):
probably the best way to do it because you don't
wanna get you don't want to get to your wagon
a week ahead of time, and like you know, the
deal with d d L. You gotta call him by
his his character name and do all that. But like yeah,
but like for for it to just be on day
one of the shoot, like that's think how I think
you want to work with him, like without having to

(24:59):
get used to a weirdness and you're gonna be intimidated
either way, so it's not like one is any better
than the other as far as like making you relax.
I wonder if dd L had to, like I call
him d d O, like he's a like he's Diamond
Dallas Page or I just love that. I wonder if

(25:22):
he had to like suppress because he is so method
the eating of giant breakfasts like that, Like I wonder
if he always had to have cream and sausages and
and all that. I bet he did. Breakfast is a
big part of this movie, like not even being funny
there are a lot of scenes great Breakfast movie around

(25:44):
that breakfast table and the ritual that he needs, which
is too have a And you know, I kind of
like his style, like I'm into a nice quiet morning
as well, which you know you can't have anymore once
you have a kid. But um, to me, there's nothing
wrong if you're if you have no kids, if you're
married or in a relationship and you live with someone

(26:07):
waking up and not saying much to each other for
the first hour or so, it was fine, Oh yeah,
that's the dream, right, And I'm not groggy or grumpy
or anything. But there's something about putting on some music
and just having a very slow start to the day
that is really appealing to me. Is toast the loudest
food it was when when she that scene was pretty

(26:29):
funny too. There was a lot of humor in this movie,
and I love like it's not just the buttering of
the toast. Like there's the scene later on where they're
out on the veranda having breakfast and she's like chewing,
She's like biting into the toast in such a great way,
and and the the rack in on on woods on
Woodcock's face. This is right after they got married. I

(26:51):
think this is their honeymoon and he like looks out
in the middle distance, like, my god, what have I done? Right?
I'm stuck with this for breakfast forever? Yeah. I mean
the sound design is very kind of funny in those
scenes because the one where they're inside with his sister,
which we'll get to her in a second, what a

(27:12):
what an acting role? Um? It is so sound design
e to maximize the sound of the knife being put
back on the plate, the buttering of the toast, the chewing,
the pouring of the tea, which she does, you know,
with a little flair that he liked it first. But
now there's in nineties SNL sketch that Will Ferrell is

(27:32):
in that is like, that's that sole Conceit is an
angry father at his family and it sound is turned
up so hot on on the dinner plates and the
sound of silverware on those plates as a passive aggressive sound.
And I know p t A is a big SNL fan.
I wonder if that inspired the intensity of these scenes

(27:56):
because it's it's so fun and funny to me. Well,
and though it's you know, it's kind of funny and all,
but it really serves a purpose in this film, because
not only is she disrupting his breakfast, but then there's
the when she learns how to quietly butter her toast,

(28:18):
like that all comes back around and you know she's
she's now being a good little girl around this guy
who can't have her making any noise, which is really obnoxious. Yeah,
it's it. Do you ever feel like she's broken? Because
I don't. I feel like this film very specifically chooses

(28:39):
two onboard her power early so that we aren't feeling
sorry for almost character like we do initially like too soon,
like you're like, oh, man, like don't tell her to
wipe off her lipstick like that, like that shitty, But
but almost immediately, like way four halfway through the film,

(29:02):
she calls him out on his bullshit like the only
thing I only think you're acting strong line is like
her her like throwing down the gauntlet like like fuck you,
I know who you really are, And I think that's
so important, Like where in time in the film that
that happens, So you're not feeling sorry for Almo or

(29:22):
thinking that she's a victim of of woodcocks deal and
like one of the things my wife asked, was like,
where Almah's parents and and to me, I was like,
almost parents would be fucking thrilled in in nineteen fifties.
What what country is this in? Is this in? Uh?

(29:43):
This is in England? Yeah, like in nine fifties England,
post war England for for a waitress to hook up
with with rich, renowned fashion Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree.
There is that tension though. I think, like you want
who make sure she's okay? But she really is. She's

(30:04):
a strong character and she displays that in a few ways.
You know. She has that one line that you were
talking about with him. She and it's a little bit later,
but she stands up to Cyril when she wants to
give him the surprise party. And Cyril is more frightening
than anyone in this movie, maybe more frightening than anyone
in any movie ever. She's Manville. Oh man, She's incredible

(30:27):
but so intimidating. And that guy that one where she
just sucking evisceerates her brother with that one. That one scene, man,
it shows who really has the power. I love it
so much. It's I love that scene and I love
her in it. It's great how she never raises her

(30:48):
voice like ever, Yeah, her power comes from her choice
of words, and like the economy of those words. It's great,
it's great. But so she stands up to Cyril. She
I mean, all throughout the movie, she's taking control. She
goes to the dance by herself on the Year's Eve,

(31:09):
she um, she she goes with him, She makes the
choice to sort of be his hero and getting that
dress off of off. The lady's constantly making empowering decisions
until straight through to the end when she's you know,
ultimately empower all along. I love that scene where they

(31:30):
take the ladies dress off together because that I feel
like that's the first time you get the sense that
they're a team, especially in the wedding, even before that
even happens, like Alma is almost more angry about the
situation than than Woodcock. They're like at that wedding table
together watching this dress get fucked up, and she's like

(31:51):
almost shaking with anger about it. It's one of the
aspects of the film and her character that that makes
you believe she's going to be okay, and she has
agency and she's like she's in it for herself. Like
I stopped worrying about her at that moment in a
in a good way. Yeah, and she this movie, I

(32:15):
could see the same story being so different and different
filmmaker's hands, and she really like has so much respect
for him. It's never like, oh, you're just an abusive
monster and I'm I'm under your thumb. Like she takes control,
like I said, and she she at the very beginning
those book ended sort of confessional scenes where you later

(32:38):
learned that she's speaking to the young doctor, but she
calls him the most amazing man. And this is all
in the future, you know. I think you need that
too to begin the film, to be grounded in the
idea that she's going to be okay, She's always going
to be okay. Yeah, I think that's really important. I

(33:02):
think without those bookends it feels a little more sketchy
in a way you don't want. Yeah, this film like
like totally it's weird. What does the work right? Like
the dialogue is so efficient and cutting that that it's

(33:23):
doing a lot of the work. But also the sound
design of this film is something that I love. And
the house is a character. Those footsteps on the wood
floor really emphasize the emotional stakes of the characters inside
that house, and I love how turned up they are.

(33:44):
I love how you can hear people stopping around. Oh yeah.
And then that first beautiful shot up the stairwell into
the light. That's one of my I mean, it's a
it's a movie shot. We've seen a bunch of times,
but this is one of the best uses of it
is looking up through not a spiral staircase, but just
you know, multiple floors of stairs kind of winding around
one another. Yeah, and he is there's I don't know, man,

(34:06):
he makes just the most beautiful movies. There's such a
sumptuous quality to his period work. Yeah, they're authentic and
gorgeous and like there's never a frame that doesn't look like, well,
that's exactly how it probably looked back then. He I
read that he very and by he, I mean Paul
Thomas Anderson really specifically did not want super clean film,

(34:32):
Like he didn't want this to look digital at all.
Like he really wanted this to look, uh like promised
it a little bit like a little foggy, a little dusty,
a little imperfect in a way that really adds character
to the locations here. Like for as wealthy as Woodcock

(34:54):
has to be for as large as he lives in
his home. Like, I never really got the sense of
the he had a nice home. It was just big
and it and it served him as a place to
do his work, right, Yeah, I mean, And I think
like our idea of nice these days is so different,

(35:14):
Like and you don't even have to be into modern homes,
but I think everything has to be so pristine and
the white you know, court site countertops, and that's just
sort of the look these days. It's very crisp and clean,
whether it's a craftsman or a modern And back then,
these are ancient houses that were lived in with old furniture,

(35:34):
and it was post war in England. That was in
England was just fucking mess after the war. They don't
really talk much about it, but it's sort of there.
Do you think that Reynolds was a veteran? No, wouldn't.
Why not? I don't know, man, it just it doesn't.
I agree with you too, but I can't like it,

(35:58):
wouldn't he have been or because he was part of
the aristocracy, you think that that wasn't that wasn't what
he would have No, I'm saying like because he was
of a certain social status, like he wouldn't have been
I don't know, or he was too old maybe yeah,
I mean, if he's playing his age, he's what like

(36:19):
mid fifties, I guess so, and that would have been.
But this is in the fifties, so it could have
potentially been ten years earlier. But maybe in his forties
during the war and howl does she? I mean things
were pretty desperate for a time in Europe and in England.
I wonder, like I wonder what happened to men of

(36:41):
his age at that time, rally around the old calls
the boy Yeah what what? Yeah? I love all those
driving shots too, when you attach a camera to a car,
like either the hood of the car or the trunk
of the car, it's just a cool shot. I love it.
It looks it always feels dangerous. It's very uh Lawrence

(37:05):
of Arabia, right like that, Like in the way that
that film depicted fast motorcycle driving in a way that
that felt like Checkov's motorcycle. Like I it made me
feel nervous for him, but but it seemed like so
much fun. You get in a low slung sports car

(37:25):
and drive like that, Like I was envious of all
of those scenes that had to be great fun and
if you're if you're Daniel day Lewis, like you're actually
driving the car totally. Yeah. What's funny is too later
on when she and this is is on the nose
as Paul Thomas Anderson gets metaphorically, but um, when she's

(37:46):
sort of taking control, she literally gets in the driver's
seat and and drives him that one night, and and
it didn't occur to me the person time I saw it,
but I was like, that's kind of funny, Like he
was like, all right, she's in the driver's seat of
this relationship. Now, let's let's literally put her in the
driver's seat. That kind of I feel like that was
the moment she tested the boundaries of what she would

(38:08):
be permitted to do as a as a caretaker figure
for him, right, Like that's the first time she she
slides over and and she's like, I've got it, and
it's what and when he allows it, that feels like
a really big moment. It's not the same as being
weakened by illness and being cared for by her later,

(38:29):
but I think it's related. I think so too, and
she she I think I think the power switch comes early,
like you said, because she realizes that he needs her, yeah,
probably more than she needs him in a way, because
she could go off and pretty young woman and and

(38:52):
marry the doctor or whoever she wants, you know, and
he's he's much more limited. Like I mean, you get
the feeling there have been a bunch of women before
her because of the way they introduced the one lady
there at first, yeah, and then falling out of fashion
a bit. And he's older. And that scene on New
Year's was so carefully done because I think that's the

(39:16):
scene that supports your argument, because if we because we
we see her as youthful and energetic and capable of
of meeting new people and socializing. She's not desperate for him,
and we don't see her making out with someone or like.

(39:43):
That wasn't a scene of her stepping out on him,
but it was a message sent that she could And
it's how great did that scene look so great? What
a fun party? That looks like? Like so often you
see a party scene in a film and you're like,
that's a film party scene. Yes, that doesn't look like

(40:05):
that would be that much fun, But this party looks
like so much fun. Yeah, it was amazing. I mean
he dropped some serious cash on that, you know, five
minutes scene. Anytime you drop balloons in a scene, you
better get it. You can't go back to one after
the balloons drop. Very hard to reset that I have

(40:32):
here in my notes too, ad him. I think you'll
appreciate this is going back to the beginning with her
first date. Is there ever more of a time to
get up and run out of a restaurant when your
date tells you he has a lock of his mother's
hairson into his coat jacket. Yeah, that should have been
it for her. She should have been like, all right,
I'm out, thank you. Maybe that played differently in the fifties.

(40:55):
Maybe love that trivia though, right, like the idea of
of the great sewing something into the lining. I think that, yeah,
that's what he mentions, like like and then that's like
the little note that got sewn into the she wasn't

(41:16):
a queen. She was, yeah, some sort of princess or something. Yeah,
like like that note that I can't remember now, I
wish I remembered. Yeah, but yeah sure, and she takes
it out power yeah, yeah, big power move. She's always
usurping his power. Ah yeah, I mean this movie, if

(41:40):
you don't even watch closely, that you might think this
is a movie about a young woman who's being controlled
by this older man, And it's really not what's going
on at all, right, It's it's that soft power, which
is often the biggest power behind the scenes. Well, in
the power of the muse. Um it's a very valuable

(42:02):
like you know, you're an asset if you're the muse
of someone who needs it. Never cursed is what's sewn
into the stitching. And that was a call back to
the conversation they had earlier where you know, there's so
much superstition around wedding dresses in this time, like you
don't want to touch one if you're unmarried, and on

(42:24):
and on. That was that was pretty fun trivia too
that I wasn't aware of. I thought it was interesting
that these siblings, like I keep wanting to call him
plain view Um Woodcock has his ritual when he meets her,
which was view Woodcock is is my poor name, is

(42:44):
to take away her her writing pad, kind of quiz
her in away on whether or not she remembers, but
also have this keepsake to take home, so that was
his power move and cereals, do you remember the first
thing she does, she fucking smells her that's right, like
an and calls out everything she'd eaten and everything she's wearing.

(43:07):
What kind of soap she used? I mean, talk about
a power move, man. There is a real element to
like her being cattle in that in that scene, like
all measured up, and uh, that's the only time I
really felt bad for her because the dynamics shifted so
quickly when Cyril came in there. She gets smelled down

(43:30):
and when he's measuring her, embarking out her measurements so
coldly like she's a mannequin. That's the That's the only
time where I see her really like, I mean, not suffering, suffering,
but you know what I mean. There's a neutrality to
Vicky Creeps's performance there though, that I think kind of
saves it from that creep factor. And I don't know

(43:51):
if this is just me projecting or not, but I mean,
so much of that scene is thrilling for her. She's
a it's it's a little bit pretty woman right like
she's she was a waitress days ago, and now she's
getting measured for a dress that in a thousand years
she'd never be able to afford by the best dressmaker

(44:12):
in her country. Like, like, there's there's elements of that too,
and it's a great Like what a first impression between
her and Cyril. Yeah, I mean that whole scene was
meant to put her, to let her know her place
in that situation. Nothing to humanize is like measurements though,

(44:32):
right well, and remember what he says to He says,
you have no breasts, and but then he says, you're perfect.
It's my job to give you some if I choose to,
if I choose to. Yeah, that those the words there
at the end, Man, is the line, I guess, Yeah,
that's the line. Yeah. Great, And it's right there sort

(44:54):
of at the end of that first act that things
start to turn a little bit. I mean, she's basically
told that her taste is incorrect, she's not allowed to
have an opinion, and you really think this movie is
going in that direction hard, and she she's just she
she's not having it though. I like how you never
see her dressed poorly, like she's dressed for work when

(45:18):
you first meet her, but you never see her like
wearing rags. This isn't like the literal rags to reach
his story, and I like that about this film, Like
her transformation goes from you see her at work and
she's dressed nice and neat for her shift, and then
you see her later and she's dressed up for her
date and she looks great for the date, and then

(45:38):
from then on you never see her not looking amazing
in something that that was made for her. I love
the casting of her because I you know, she was
basically an unknown in the United States, very pretty and
just has that great European look to her face, and
it would have just ruined it. I think if he

(45:59):
would have I to cast some American actor. She's really beautiful,
but she's also really uh Like she's got that Sarah
Paulson vibe where she could be anyone in any movie,
Like I I feel like you could she could be
anything in a in a way that's got to be
exciting for any actor. Like I hope she's getting called

(46:22):
for all of it and just turning a bunch of
ship down that she doesn't want to do, because I
feel like she would fit right in to whatever you're making.
I feel like I saw her not in something but
that she was going to be in something soon, just
like a couple of days ago, or maybe she was
in a trailer or something, but she didn't like just
blow up all this is what like four years ago. Yeah,

(46:46):
I mean there was no there was no rocket career
trajectory after this. But I don't feel like that's how
it works with ensemble Paul Thomas Anderson films. Really like
he's not a starmaker like that. Yeah, I think you're right,
because these movies, I mean that they're not there's an

(47:08):
audience for them. But the audience for Phantom Thread wasn't huge.
Like I don't know what this did at the box office,
but serious film lovers is who goes in zzs. I
wonder to use a film analogy if, like you know
how some athletes are painted as like a system quarterback,
Like that quarterback played great for that team because the
system made them great. I wonder if you get painted

(47:34):
with that brush if you're in a Paul Thomas Anderson
film or similar where where you get that great director
brush on you and and the reputation is, well, yeah,
she's great, but she was in a Paul Thomas Anderson film,
and that's why and I wonder if if that like
hurts you as an actor in a weird way. I

(47:55):
don't know, I mean a bit. She's been busy in Europe. Yeah,
I mean that that's her jam. She's just, you know,
not everyone wants to like. I feel like the woman
in Inglorious Bastards kind of did a couple of bigger
mainstream movies here and then I think was content to
stay in Europe for the most part. Yeah, yeah, you

(48:18):
want to stay in Europe. You don't want to come
out here. So let's talk about the powership a little bit.
I think. I mean this, like I said, you know
a few times, this movie is all about power and
then it going from one to the other. And I
think when it really happens for the first time, like
they spend a little bit of that beginning sort of
dehumanizing her somewhat, is when he is broken from work

(48:43):
for the first time and she cares for him and
realizes that she loves that feeling of this powerful man
being brought to his knees and her being the key
to nursing this great person back to doing their great work.
Big foreshadowing of what's to come, obviously, but I think
that's really when that that turn happens. Yeah, And her

(49:08):
performance is so subtle that when she recognizes that, it's
fun like like, it's not too much later that she's
back out in the forest getting mushrooms, you know. Yeah,
which you don't know exactly what's going on at first,
and then they make it pretty obvious, you know, it's

(49:29):
not like they make that they hold that to the
very end to reveal like it shows her reading about
the poison stuff. Yeah, I mean the reveal of the
film is that he's into it when that moment comes.
But but but the road there is so delicious. Well
we'll get to that. I want to talk about it now,
but we'll get to that. Um. I love the barber

(49:52):
Rows stuff, you know, the lady they take the dress
off of because she functions. Is this again it's it's
all about This movie is all about power, Like he
detests that she has the power over his life somewhere
that he needs he has to do this work for
her because she pays him a lot of money to

(50:14):
do it. It's interesting, like you hear about her before
she shows up and you're like, oh, what is she
going to be? Like, she's going to be awful. She
wasn't that bad, and that's that's what my point was
going to be, is like she's a rich debutante, like
like she's just sort of unhappy. I think she's just

(50:35):
an unhappy, rich drunk who's not mean to him or
like you're I'm sure you've been in professional relationships where
that feel parasitic, where you're like, I gotta do this
thing and this person is being shitty to me, But
that isn't what's going on here, Like he just seeks
a purity in how his work is treated and be

(51:00):
because she isn't capable of that. That's the hang up, right,
And and he hates like I think Cyril even says
that she pays for this house, yeah, which is what
makes the risk of taking the dress off of her
feel so filled with tension, Like is he sacrificing something

(51:21):
greater than we think in that moment? I mean, clearly not,
because he gets to keep his house. But something tells
me that Barbara Rose is one who would sober up
and and and still wanted him to do work for her. Yeah. Yeah,
because she's embarrassed and she knows she's a loathsome drunk
I love that scene, like when they first access her

(51:45):
her penthouse or whatever at the wedding, Barbara Roses Handler
is on the scene and it's just like incapable of
and she's so outclassed. Yeah, she brought a knife to
a gun fight there for sure, you want the dress
she's in bed and then and then uh, Vicky is

(52:07):
the one who like he doesn't even shove her through
the door, like like you said earlier, She's she's all
about going to get that thing, yeah, which I love.
It was a big moment when she did that. It
changed the tone of her whole character. Well, and it's
right after that that she she stands up to Cyril

(52:28):
about the birthday party, and boy, that scene was to
see how discombobulated he was for his routine to be
disrupted in the house to be empty, and like how
many times did he asked where Cyril was in that
first like a minute? Yeah, when did she leave? Where Cyril?

(52:48):
Where Cyril? When she coming back, it was like it
became kind of pathological. Yeah, and and creepy again, he's
like a man child almost. Well, I mean it is
that enabler thing right he needs, Like I feel like
he is self aware enough to know that he his

(53:10):
behavior is boorish. Sure, but what he has is Cyril
in his back pocket, Cyril making it okay. And if
no one was around to make it okay, maybe he'd
be capable of changing the way he treats people. But
as long as you don't have that check, Cyril is
just going to keep kicking the Joanna's of the world

(53:31):
out of his house for his for all time. And
Vicky becomes that check. Yeah, And it's at that dinner
scene where she finally they finally have it out and
she calls him out, and that scene is actually has
some pretty funny stuff too, when he's, ah, where's your gun?
Whom you're gun? You come to kill me? Where's your gun?

(53:54):
Like that's so funny, and I know he was trying
to get a laugh out of that. How surprised were
you when the scene where Cyril says that she likes Alma.
I'm pretty surprised, actually, me too. That was a big
as big of a reveal as anything. Almost. I love
that moment because I like, I like feeling like Alma

(54:17):
won her over, and it was especially good feeling that
it that I didn't know that it had happened until
she said it. It was a nice reveal. Is it
that thing though, where someone stands up to the asshole
and then the asshole then respects them. Is that what
happened there? But I think it's interesting that Almah doesn't

(54:38):
know that, Like Cyril never tells Alma that she. I
think she treats her a little better going forward. But
I if you ask Alma from then on, if if
she's found herself on Cyril's good side, I think Alma
would say no, she she hates me as as much
as ever. Right, But does Cyril get that respect? Because

(55:01):
Alma did stand up to her, absolutely, but she would
never give her that. I mean what's interesting is like
in that early scene where you where you recognize Cyril's
power when she kicks out Joanna. I feel like Joanna
is resistant to Cyril like in a way that Why

(55:21):
didn't Joanna make it work in that same way? I
don't know. Well, Joanna didn't do it in a clever way.
She was more sort of stomping her feet about her
situation and Alma and Vicky was much more clever. That
had to be it, right, Yeah, you're just calling her
by your actor name. I know that's weird. You're very

(55:42):
familiar with Vicky creeps. You're kind of being a Vicky creep, Chuck,
I'm being a Vicky creep. No, Alma is much more
clever and and I think, I bet you there's been
a lot of women to come through in that role
as as living mannequin um slash toast butterer. And I

(56:05):
think that Alma is the most capable, the smartest, the
most clever, the strongest. And I think game represent game
respect game, and Cyril knows that. I like that. I
never got the feeling that this was coming from a
place where almost got nothing to lose, Like I think

(56:27):
we've seen this movie before where the Alma of the
film rags two riches herself into a position where like, like,
what does she care if she fux this up? She's
going to go back to her waitress job and things
are going to be fine. There is that is not
suggested at all. Yeah, she she acts in her interest

(56:52):
in a way that is completely uncoupled from any sort
of consequence. And I like not knowing that. I like
not cutting to her in her room in the home
after she gets into an altercation with Cyril and her
like heavily breathing, like holy shit, like should I have

(57:12):
done that? You never get a sense of Alma's inner
life in a way that I think you would get
in a lot of other films. And I think this
makes Alma a stronger character, Like making her a little
less known works in her favor and makes her stronger. Yeah,
And I think that's also a reason why she is

(57:34):
a person unto herself. There is no best friend, there's
no sister, there are no parents, like they're there because
normally in a movie like this, she would call her
her sister or her friend and talk about what's going
on in this House of Horrors or whatever, and she's
totally just I mean, this movie is as a very
isolating feeling, kind of like there will be blood in

(57:55):
some ways, you know what, come to think of it,
Like no one has an inner life in this movie.
No one gets that moment to step back and think
and and regret or fear or hope or or anything.
Everything is played out in front of someone else, isn't it.

(58:17):
I'm trying to think if there's a single scene with
by themselves. No, I don't think there is. And I
think that's part of what makes so many of the
interactions in this film feel fraught or dangerous or or
filled with tension. And then you slather the Johnny Greenwood

(58:38):
on that and like forget its bread and butter on toast.
Oh yeah, very loud toast. That's Johnny Greenwood. Yeah, so
you got Johnny Greenwood and you also have some classical
pieces here and there really works for the movie. It
wasn't Johnny Greenwood from There Will Be Blood, Like I
love his range, because that that would have made it
feel like a horror movie. I think I love like

(59:02):
Johnny Greenwood, and There Will Be Blood is like nine
out of ten strength, and I feel like he dialed
it down to like a four here and it's perfect
in the in the way that like the edit that
you detect is a bad edit. I feel like music
works that way too, right, Like this is this is

(59:24):
adding to the feeling instead of making itself the star
of the moment, right, Yeah, which is really in a
merchant ivory like this is probably pt a stab at
a merchant ivory type of thing. Yeah, in his own
sort of fucked up way. Yeah, And especially because the
film is so interested in the diagetic sounds of the life,

(59:49):
like of the life in that house, the stopping and
the clinking and the toast and and all of that. Yeah,
I'm trying to find the breakfast scene. Ah see what
exactly what Cyril says, because, like you said, though, it's
really the way she says it, more so than the

(01:00:10):
actual lines, because in my head, you know, I'm thinking
she says like, I will fucking end you. She doesn't
say that, right, It's that don't pick a fight, right all? Right?
Here we go? Here we go. Do you like me
to ask im to leave? No? Why for me to

(01:00:36):
make a ghost? Go ahead and do it. But please
don't let her sit around waiting for you. I'm very
fond of her. You're very fond of her, are you?
In that case? M you don't turn it on me.

(01:00:57):
I don't want your cloud on your setups and shut
right up to pick a fight with me. You certainly
would't come out of life right through you and you
who ends up on the floor understood. Oh man, I've
never been more scared of a character in a Paul
Thomas Anderson film than After That Life or any movie like.

(01:01:20):
That's one of the scariest scenes in any movie. I
think that's so great, man, I wonder if I can
get sued for that. It's so interesting how Leslie Manville's
physicality isn't there in this movie. Like she never gets
in anyone's face, she never points a finger, No, she

(01:01:40):
never raises her voice. And that scene is so emblematic
of this It's like I feel like she's holding her
teacup or something when she says it, like she's drinking.
And it's so casually delivered in a way that like
the most powerful people are able to do, Like it's
it would be nothing for her to destroy him. Yeah,

(01:02:00):
and that's thirty seconds. Uh and you too, Humongous things
happen there, which is you really finally see who truly
is the beast in this movie and who has control?
And you also know for sure that she is sticking
up for Alm in a big way. Yeah, Like you
can't treat her like who's who's the first one? Joanna? Joanna? Yeah,

(01:02:26):
Like I'm not gonna let you do that. I wonder
how close they came to Like obviously this is a
Daniel day Lewis joint, but like you could you could
fill a lot of this movie with with Leslie Manville
up to up to the level of of Daniel day
Lewis minutes and I don't. And I think the movie

(01:02:48):
becomes better and better when you do give me a prequel,
That's what I'm saying. Like her, I could use the
the eight episode HBO Max mini series that's just Cyril
and Cyril's life. I think she was nominated. Did she
win an Oscar? Oh boy, I do not know that.

(01:03:11):
I'm pretty sure she was nominated. She's deserving of of
all the things for this. Yeah, I mean there. I
have so much respect for these roles that are just
played between the forehead and the chin, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
the control of it. And imagine being in a film

(01:03:33):
with with DDL and like toe to toe, yeah, toe
to fucking toe, Like she is not diminished next to
him at all. She's incredible. Yeah. I bet when she
read this script and saw that specific scene and she's like,
I'm gonna go up against Daniel day Lewis basically and

(01:03:55):
tell him I own his ass. Like what an opportunity
for an actor. It's pretty cool. I love how you know,
like you do this with wardrobe right, like a character
is put together and finished and in control when you
look at them, like if they're costuming is perfect and
on point. And this is one of those films that

(01:04:16):
makes that clear. Like when Reynolds is dressed, he's he's
a beautiful man and he looks put together. But like
the way you suggest that he's unwell is with his
hair and when and like there's that fallen Samurai quality
to him, like when when his hair kind of falls
out a little bit when he's sick. That's how you

(01:04:38):
can tell when he's fucked up. I love how they
do that. Yeah, and I'm trying to remember the first
time I saw this, Like I was really thrown Like
I didn't have any spoilers going into it. Yeah, me too.
I thought, you know, I thought she was maybe trying
to kill him slowly and get away with it at Yeah,

(01:05:00):
it's the implication if you if you haven't seen the film,
because a thousand movies have told that exact story. Yeah,
and oh boy, like what a stroke of genius idea
to like turn that on its head and yanked the
rug out from under the viewer. That don't not only
have this to be a control thing for her, but

(01:05:23):
like you said, the big the beg ending man, I mean,
what did you think the first time you saw that
and you realized that he was into it? What a scene?
I mean I think I probably laughed, but I laughed
not because it was funny. I just laughed at the
audacity and the and the realization of that being, of

(01:05:45):
that being the reveal. I loved it. I loved it
the first time I saw it, and I loved it
in the subsequent viewings of the movie. It's it's so
satisfying to suspect that it's coming from a dark place
but instead real is that, um that it's sympathetic, Like
it's both characters taking something from this arrangement and and

(01:06:09):
getting what they need. It's it's really brilliant. It's brilliant
in a way that doesn't make you feel dirty either,
you know. Like this again, I feel like so much
of what so many scenes that we talk about when
we talk about this film are like, Wow, they really
avoided the big mistake here. The cliche is what they avoided,

(01:06:33):
and this is another example of that. Like it could
have this this film car could have rolled into the
ditch in this moment, especially, and it didn't. Instead, it's
like the strength of the actors in this scene make
it makes sense and make it understandable. I think, actually,

(01:06:56):
thinking back, I'm pretty sure I was a little confused
at the end, and and I'm brave enough to admit
that I wasn't right away like, oh my god, he
was into it. I think it was more like Emma
and I were both like, but what just happened was that? Yeah,
and this is the kind of movie that you know.
I dive right into the internet afterward it's quickly confirmed.

(01:07:18):
I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what was going on, because
it's such an unconventional thing to do. I don't feel
too bad for being a little confused. I really like
reading scripts. I haven't read this script, but I've got
to believe that the parenthetical for this performance for Daniel
day Lewis is like Reynolds Woodcock eats the mushrooms at Alma,

(01:07:42):
Like like that's that's the vibe, like like the omelets
in front of him and he and the tension of
just sort of chopping it up, yeah, looking right right
at her, looking right at her and taking it down,
like he eats the mushrooms at Alma. Yeah, yeah, and
that look on his face, Um, it's weird he has this.

(01:08:07):
It's almost like and I think upon this viewing, and
this is where I sort of gathered this was that
he has this primal desire almost to lose control and
to be submissive and to be taken care of. But
I don't even think he understands that. Does that make sense?

(01:08:29):
It does make sense, and I wonder if it's brought
it out in him maybe. Yeah, I mean, so much
of so many disordered thoughts or or or or interests

(01:08:50):
in nineteen fifty in the nineteen fifties, I feel like
we're you know, whispered about. I don't believe that Reynolds,
like there's probably not a name for what this is,
but like orders on sado masochism in a way, right,
But but I don't, you know, if this were happening

(01:09:13):
in if this is happening today, I think it would
very easily have that label. But back then, I think
Reynolds has got to just be titillated by what he's
feeling without without a name for it. Yeah, I mean,
part of me thinks he had this primal desire that
she tapped into that he didn't know was there. Like
it happened and he was like, Oh, I like the

(01:09:36):
way that felt, because I'm a person that has to
control my environment down to the tinner of the breakfast sounds,
and to to lose to give that control up appealed
to him in a way that I don't think he
realized it would. Or maybe she just didn't bore him.
You know what. This is like the tenth time we're

(01:09:58):
going to ring the spell here, But this film doesn't
turn into misery here in a way it's so easily
could have, Like, and I think it's fixed with dialogue,
like Alma, And this isn't secret dialogue either. This isn't
just Almah talking to her doctor friend about him, like

(01:10:19):
they allude to this, Alma and Reynolds between each other,
like they talk around what this relationship dynamic is when
he's sick in a way that helps, it helps unmisery
the moment in a way that makes you believe where

(01:10:42):
you have to believe it at the end of the film,
that she's not trying to kill him, and that they're good. Yeah,
they're good with it, like and not just good with it,
but they're like good with each other, good with each other.
And I feel like he's he is finally relieved this
hold of control that has allowed him to be free

(01:11:03):
in a way, and and she has gained this power
that she probably didn't know she ever had, and the
way she talks about him. Then those book ended scenes
with the doctor, it's all right there, man, she's she's smiley.
I've got a great relationship with my wife, and I'm
fortunate to say that I love her a lot. But

(01:11:25):
if you told me that, like, like four days of
diarrhea would make our relationship like better? Hell yeah, hell yeah,
what about you wouldn't wouldn't you take it? I would
eat that almond so fast? Hell yeah? Yeah, I've already

(01:11:46):
got four days of diarrhea per month, Like it's unfair.
Yeah yeah, that seems like a fair trade, especially for
the road that Reynolds has been on. It seems like
like he's found the one. It's a happy ending, right.

(01:12:06):
I wonder where this. I wonder what the endgame is.
So I wonder where these people are in five years.
You can't keep poisoning yourself like that and not have
some sort of long term effect, right, I wouldn't think so.
And I think eventually diarrhea probably you chase that mushroom dragon.
Long enough, you're just gonna keep eating more and more
of these things. I think that's probably a bad deal. Yeah.
Does it end up in an accidental killing? Yeah, I

(01:12:31):
mean in the fifties, absolutely, Yeah, I think Reynolds is
dead in two years. Like, and I'm betting the under
This isn't one of those movies that where I kind
of delight in thinking like where did these characters go
from here? Like these movies are best sort of left
as they are. You know what's interesting about the triangle

(01:12:53):
of Cyril and Reynolds and Alma is that Cyril never
knows what Alma's doing to Reynolds, and if she did,
it would never work, it would never be worth it.
And so like to to think about a timeline where
Reynolds is dead and it's the Alma and Cereal show.

(01:13:15):
That's big fun. Yeah, the phantom sequel. Yeah, why is
this called the phantom thread? Is that the name of
the thing that you stitch into someone's lining? I don't know.
I don't know why, I don't I don't think that
I wasn't able to find that. Yeah, I don't know either.

(01:13:37):
By the way, thank you for sending me that Instagram.
I'm meant to shout that out, and I was waiting
for you the what's it called the color palette cinema?
Color palette cinema. Yeah, I sent that to you because
I just recently found out that you yourself had an Instagram.
I've known you for years. I found out I found

(01:13:58):
it a month ago that you had it. I've only
had it for about six months, so i haven't been
on for long. It's great. Yeah, I enjoy it. But yeah,
color palette cinema, you guys on Instagram has film stills
and then a color chart. Yes, basically yes, watches of
the color palette of that scene. And you know a

(01:14:22):
lot of times that scene is indicative of that movie
as a whole. Yeah, very cool stuff. And you sent
me the Master, I think right, or was it there
will be blood? I think I sent you the Master.
It's very much like a I feel like you could
pitch the idea for this Instagram by starting with Wes Anderson,
like like a very a very in your face color

(01:14:44):
palette type of filmmaker. But you realize when you when
you follow an account like this, just how how many
filmmakers work work in these tones? Tones that that become
their own. And I feel like, like speaking of Wes Anderson,
like Phantom Thread feels like a Wes Anderson film shot

(01:15:06):
at forty five degree angles instead of head on. Like
every I feel like every scene is is fixed in
a way that that unlike Wes Anderson, is a little
less fixed. You know, it doesn't make it like composition,
doesn't make itself the star of the moment. Yeah, I

(01:15:26):
mean it's definitely p t A's least showy. Yeah. Camera wise,
I think they're a few here and there, but it's
it's pretty locked down. I read that he wanted Bob
Elswood for it and he wasn't available, and so it
was cinematography by committee. Like that's the legend of this film,
is the p t A shot at himself, But he

(01:15:48):
has he's denied that and said that it was by committee.
But whatever the truth is, it's it's a really beautiful film.
It is as they all are. Yeah, it makes me
sad that this project is almost over. We we got
the one we're coming up, but we'll just have to
think of what what else we want to do. We

(01:16:10):
gotta start a new series. Yeah, I mean, we can
do whatever you want we can do a filmmaker series
or a genre thing or or just or just just
films that we like. Yeah, we can do Maybe we'll
do another round, Like, maybe we'll just do films that
that we like, films that we like. I'm into that,
let's do it. I just want to keep doing this

(01:16:31):
with with you. This is a lot of fun. Yeah,
me too, absolutely, And I know we're going to see
each other in September, which I'm super excited about. Yes,
me too. Are super secret hang in person hangs with
you and your lovely wife and Ben Harrison and his wife,
Yeah and the gang back to Yeah. Yeah, I'm really

(01:16:53):
looking forward to that. It's fun to make plans and
amen and look forward to things again. All right, dude,
well this is great. That's gonna come out in a
couple of weeks. Where can people follow you always like
to plug your ship? Uh well, I am known for
too great podcasts at the moment. The greatest generation is

(01:17:15):
my Star Trek podcast, and the greatest discovery is my
new Star Trek podcast. That's right, And I like I
like guesting on shows, so so i I'm a I'm
a guest on on my Friends shows like yours and
I can be found. I'm out there. I'm on Twitter
and cut for time and follow me there that I

(01:17:36):
think I think that's uh. I think those are all
the bases to go. All right, fantastic sir, So thank
you Adam, And for now, this concludes our PTA series
until the new one comes out. I hope everyone has
enjoyed it and checks out these movies. I'm sorry we
didn't get the punch drunk love. I don't do repeats.
You can take it up with Tony Hill if you
ever see him out. Oh yeah, a bunch of that

(01:17:58):
nice guy right in the face, only Hale. That'll be
your first misfight with with the nicest guy in Hollywood.
I do not want to be that kind of famous.
All right, Thanks Budd, thank you. Movie Crash is produced
and written by Charles Bryant and Meel Brown, edited and
engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Noel Brown

(01:18:21):
here in our home studio at Potsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia.
For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.