Filmmaker Series: Adam Pranica on The Master

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.

(00:29):
I am reading the brand new Oliver Stone autobiography. You know,
I know, he's like a he's a he's a figure
with a rep right now and he's had a bad
one for the last few years. But I read some
reviews of this book that that praised it for it's

(00:49):
like honesty and it's cutting honesty about its writer, and
I thought, you know, that's the sort of autobiography i'd
like to read, especially about a guy like Oliver Stone,
like beating the shoot out of himself. And I'm almost
done with it and I've I've really enjoyed the experience.
I think it's a it's a very fun book to read,

(01:09):
and it seems like the first of a series that
he's writing because this is his first four movies. Is
the autobiography, it's his his youth up to the first
four and I'm expecting there to be uh yeah, yeah,
a sequel. So I really like it. That's interesting. That
makes me want to go through and break his career

(01:30):
down into four film sets if he sticks with that,
although he made since he's covered his childhood, might bought
off more movies on this next one. Yeah, yeah, I
mean it's a it's funny to hear he really gives
no fox and I think that's been on, that's been
obvious for a long time. But like he lets it

(01:50):
fly on guys, guys like James Woods and a bunch
of yeah, that's just great. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. And
so The Doors a movie that we watched for Friendly Fire,
and I had I wish that I had read this
book before we did that episode, because there were some
interesting nuggets in there. I listen to that process. Yeah,

(02:11):
I remember it. Well, that's a good one. Um. I
read a lot of We're gonna have you on the
show next week? Next week? Is that next week? Or no?
We we don't even have a date lined up. All right,
we got going? We really do. I want to get
you on that show. No, no no, no, we'll do it. Um.
I've been reading. I've read a lot of biographies, a

(02:31):
lot of rock biographies and music biography. So I think
that Oliver Stone that lines up. Well, maybe I'll check
that out. I'll send it to you when I'm done, okay, hardback, Yeah,
of course, I'll send you a little care package. How
does that sound like? Drugs and Oliver Stone books. I

(02:52):
mean it would be appropriate, wouldn't it. Yeah, I mean,
how many Oliver Stone books have been shipped with drugs
in the past, like a few months, probably a few
Oliver Stone classically. It's like, you know, I only did
cocaine socially. It was never a problem for me to quit.
Is that really what he said? Yeah? I mean, here's
the thing, like this is this is eighties Oliver Stone

(03:13):
talking about it, like around the time he won the
the Oscar and he sets it down a little while
after that. So I don't believe that's in reference to
any more recent cocaine binges. But at the time, that's
what he said about his habit. I could see that actually,
and I'm not I'm not condoning casual use of cocaine,

(03:37):
but I could see Oliver Stone being one of those
guys that like partied hard with certain crowds and while
he was doing a movie maybe and then and then
putting it away. Eighties cocaine just seems like a different,
different cat, different vibe maybe, So who knows, you know what,
I want to keep all this stuff because this is
movie related. So I'll say, hey, welcome to movie crush.

(03:58):
I'm here with Adam Pranica, my old friend, Uh to
talk to continue our series on P. T. Anderson with
another in the line of difficult movies with unlikable characters
called the Master. That's why you have me on for
this series. Difficult person, very unlikable. You're the easiest and

(04:19):
you're the most likable. Are you kidding me? It's good
to see your face again, man. Yeah, it's been a
while since we've done the show together. I know it's Uh,
I feel like there will be blood was maybe too
long ago. Uh, and these are you know you call
it movie therapy. I think, yeah, just get our heads right.
I did call it movie therapy because it it feels

(04:41):
so good to talk about such bad people for a
couple of hours and then UH, have a couple of
drinks with you in the process. Yeah. So what do
we drinking tonight? What are you drinking? I am drinking
a tequila soda in uh in the classic proportions. My
classic proportions is about three quarters Cosumi goos blanco tequila

(05:02):
and a little splash club soda twist of lime and
what the soda is just to give it a little
fizz and a great, big, great big Stanley double walled cup. Uh,
so you go, cos Ami goes blanco. I do for
for the for the splash of soda purposes. I think
it's just a delicious sipping tequila. It's been. It's been

(05:25):
my favorite for a long time. It is, man, I
have the I mean, Emily likes the blanco. I like
the gold. Uh she looks the gold too. But yeah,
it's really just tasty. I think the reason I like
the blancos because I like it cold. If I were
drinking the darker tequilas, I would just fill a glass
with it with probably no ice. And it's really hot

(05:46):
here lately. So yeah, what's going on out there? I've heard?
Is it like it was onus? It was like one
eighteen over the weekend? Are you serious? Not insanea mon
not insantam Anica. A little more eastward, a little more inland,
it's called Uh it got terrifically hot, but not much cooler.

(06:08):
In Santa Monica. It was around a hundred Jesus man,
that's hot. I don't think. I mean, you know, Atlanta,
it's just hot as hell. But you got that wet
heat though, Yeah, it's wet heat. But we've got smoke
heat now. Yeah, I don't think we've had a hundred
this summer even heat index. I don't think we've gotten
up that high. Yeah, but you know it'll it's starting

(06:32):
to cool down like a tiny, tiny bit, but it
stays hot through you know, indo October generally in Atlanta.
Bet getting good fall though. Yeah. Your your leaves are
gonna change any moment. You know, they're starting to fall
a little bit, but it should be a good one.
Listen to this old man talking about foliage. Yeah, this

(06:54):
sounds sounds like a Coen Brothers movie title. So I'm
drinking Gin and Tonic. You texted me what am I drinking?
And because of the Master, I made the joke that
we should drink rocket fuel and paint thinner. If you
haven't seen the movie, this will all be clear pretty
soon why we made that joke. But I'm drinking Hendricks
and Tonic, a big fat double and a big glass

(07:18):
so I didn't have to go up again. In a
Yetti mug. It's like a yetti coffee mug, but they're giant, uh,
and a couple of basically half of a lime squeezed
in there. Fever treat fever treat tonic. You hipped me
to the Yetty family of products a year or two ago.
I a type of cup I kind of turned my

(07:40):
nose up to for a time. But I'm a believer
now those things work. I'm telling you, man, I'm a
big fan of iced water and just generally anything I
put ice in, I wanted to stay that way. And
if you care about their thermodynamics at all, you're gonna
be a fan of the Yetti products. Yeah, you can
throw ice water in that thing, put it on your nightstand,
and then the next morning you've got ice water. It's great.

(08:02):
You not only have ice water, you don't have a
sweaty cup on your nightstand making all kinds of unsightly rings.
That's right. So Elaine is not mad at you, and
you don't want that, No, it's yeah, it's all about
reducing the chances of of your wife being mad at you.
We do a pretty good job of that, Adam. I think,

(08:23):
uh so, Hey, the talk of rocket fuel brings a
question to mind, and I hope you don't mind me
throwing a bomb in the right in the beginning of
your show, What's what's the worst thing you've ever drank alcoholically,
because I think there's a lot of scenes like like

(08:44):
a a shot react, like a reaction to drinking something
terrible is like a great You get that a bunch
in this movie. And it really made me think of like,
what's the worst shot I've taken or what's the worst
drink I've ever had? Well, you know, I've got a
really quick and easy answer, to be honest. At first,
I was like, wait a minute, what could that be?
And then two things bring to mind, and one that

(09:06):
I know you've had because it's become a maximum tradition.
But my lord, uh describe it. It's wormwood liqueur. Is
that that's yeah, it's it's all the quote unquote fun
of absinthe, but it's like amplified herbaceous nous. It is
just so hyperry. Is that what absinthe tastes like like absinthe?

(09:32):
For it's it's wormwoody flavor. But this is like wormwood
and a whole bunch of other flavors in it. It's
it's a lot it's allowed to take on. And I
don't find it particularly Bernie. Okay, well no it's not Bernie.
It's just that tastes it stays with you for a while. Yeah,

(09:52):
it's a taste that lingers. I just literally thought of
the worst ad joke ever. It just popped into my head,
and I don't even though if I should say it.
You got you have to now. Oh god, this is
a window into how my brain works. We're talking about absinthe,
and my joke that popped into my head was you know,
I've had absinthe, but last time I had it, it

(10:14):
got it was really gassy because you know what they say,
absinthe makes the farts grow stronger. Yeah, that's something you
should have kept to yourself. How did that just pop
into my head? That's uh So, the worst thing I've
had is malort as far as that after taste, it's

(10:34):
really bad. And it's only the only reason I ever
have it is at Max Fun when everyone's passing the
bottle around, which is very risky these days. Boy, it
really is passing a bottle around a room of people.
Uh so that and uh, you know when you first
start drinking in college and stuff, or that's when I

(10:54):
started drinking. But whenever that was, you experiment with some
really weird things and I drank I had one really
really long Bad Night with Mad Dog quote unquote wine, Yeah,
threw up bad stuff passed out in the freshman storm.
For me in college, I was I was definitely looking

(11:15):
for proof, right Like I didn't know what I want
at all. I know. All I knew is that I
wanted it to be strong, and so like the Mad
Dog is strong, the the Hurricane ice forties or strong.
It's like one of the many like off brand mall

(11:38):
liquors that you could get in a in a forty
ounce format at the time. I don't even know if
they still make it anymore, not that, but like Schlitz
and cul used to go down that road totally. But
like liquor wise, I would always want like not the
not the eight proof, but the one proof, like if
I'm if I'm giving an older person money to buy

(12:01):
me something like I wanted to be strong and those
were often like really big mistakes. Um Yukon Jack comes
to mind as one of the one of the bottles
I used to get from time to time, Goldschlager. I do,
I do remember that gold Schlager after shock Avalanche was

(12:22):
the was the was the cools of of that type
of liqueur, right, Minty flavor and after shock Man, Yeah,
mistakes were made, and I used to drink like uh.
I thought it was very refined when I started drinking
seven and sevens, you know, yeah, which is funny. You

(12:42):
really need a sherpa at that age, don't you. Someone
I was never I was. I think I was always
around the youngest person of the group, so I never
got to become the guy who bought for other people
the way that my friends often were. But I really
I feel like I would have had the heart to

(13:03):
to be the liquor serpa for someone to be, like,
you know, the eight proof absolute is actually better and
more mixable than the red label one hundred that you're getting.
Trust me on this. Yeah. If if you and I
don't make an animated cartoon soon called Booze Srpa, then
we're doing the wrong thing in life. Yeah, I mean,

(13:26):
animations the only thing in production right now. Let go
for that. Uh. And So the reason you mentioned that
worst thing we've ever had is because of the Master
and the fact that a really big not big but
a substantial part of this movie has to do with
this character of freddie Quell walking Phoenix's character drinking these

(13:50):
homemade chemical drinks literally made out of rocket fuel or
paint thinner, I imagine. I mean, those are the only
two kind of brands you see. I think he drinks lysol,
just straight up liquid lysol. I love like you. You
see the first moment of this early on, and then

(14:14):
I feel like it's it's repeated throughout the film. But
one of the moments that that confused me almost was
that when he's working as the photographer and he's in
the he's in the room where he exposes the film,
and he's using tongs to to muddle some limes. I
was like, Oh, this guy really he started like dedicating
himself to the craft. This looks like a real cocktail

(14:36):
he's making. No, he's just making it out of photomat chemicals. Totally, dude,
He is drinking developing chemicals. He's drinking stop bath. Yeah.
Did you ever do any of that dark room dark
room stuff? Not drinking it? But I love the idea
of like improvised alcoholic beverages being called dark room stuff,

(14:57):
and I think that that should be that should be
than for us. Do you ever go to dark room? Jack?
Did you ever develop pictures or anything? Did you ever
do that? No? No, I never did. Yeah, it's a
lot of fun, and I could obviously you wouldn't want
to drink any of that stuff. Even that stuff is
just it is nasty, raw chemical solutions. Like what does

(15:19):
that do to you? It's it's stuff you want to
wear a mask two two use right because the fumes
are so intent. No, you don't have to wear a
mask in there, but it's pretty stinky. And like, uh,
what I wondered through all this was because the character
of um Lancaster Dodd, another great named character from P. T. Anderson. Uh,

(15:43):
he really takes a shine to this booze that he's making.
And I wonder, like I never went down the road
of experimenting with like robatus in blasting and all that
stuff that I saw other people doing, but I think
it might be something like that where it's like it's
not drunk, even it's a different feeling. Yeah. I was

(16:05):
never into purple drink myself, nor did I really know
anyone who was. When I was in college. For us
it was very specifically booze beer or drugs, like actual drugs,
not over the counter drugs. And that's so weird, right,
Like why would we have risked taking ecstasy from a

(16:30):
source that you can't corroborate instead of yeah, I mean,
none of us are thinking clearly at the time, so yeah,
I mean I felt myself just trying to make an
argument that drinking robotusts and in large quantities is really
bad for you, but ecstasy is just fine. I'm not

(16:53):
going to make that argument, but I do know that, like,
there were kids in the grades below me in high
school that were drinking row with us in and doing
glade hits like sprink glade through a towel and then
inhaling it. And we'd never messed with any of that stuff. Man,
that was like, I don't know, that just seems stupid.
I grew up with really painful migraines, like debilitating put

(17:17):
you on the floor, make you throw up kind of migraines,
and so I as I grew older, I got the
migraines went away, but my fear of headaches really grew.
And I think that was one of the main reasons
I never wanted to funk around with that stuff. Was
stuff like like inhaling other things and and uh and

(17:43):
drinking super high proof alcohol like it was hangover almost
instantaneously and I really resisted anything that that would do that.
I really tried my best not to endure a hangover
for that reason. Yeah, it's interesting how it's played in
this movie though, because is alcoholism is a big part
of Freddy's character. Um, that's the I mean, he's he's

(18:06):
got a lot of problems, let's be honest, but his
alcoholism is definitely definitely one of them. And then, uh,
Phil Hoffman's character, Lancaster Dodd is he's into it, but
like you get the feeling that he has to keep
that pretty quiet. You know, he's so amused by Freddie,

(18:27):
like off the bat, and I love how ambiguous that
relationship is even throughout the film, right, Like there's the
it's pretty clearly like a a project he sees in him,
Like if he could fix Freddie Quell, that would be
a tangible example of his greatness, right instead of just

(18:51):
the book writing and the and the quote unquote cult
that he's constructed. Like if he could get through to him,
that would be proof that he's got he's got the
supernatural powers that that maybe his believers believe him to have.
But also like there's a way that Philip Symore Hoffman

(19:11):
looks at Joaquin Phoenix in this movie that is like
it's so warm. Yeah, it's warmth. And I think you
could read it as romantic love in certain scenes, but
if it's not that, it's like the sort of warmth
that you want any of your closest pals to see

(19:33):
you with. It's I found myself really taken by it.
And it might just be because I love and miss
Phillips you Moore Hoffman as much as I do, and
that like I really really gravitate towards that stuff. Yeah. No,
that definitely played in my mind too. Um was missing
him and how like kind of charming and lovable he

(19:55):
can be at times in this movie. Um, but he does.
And you know, there's plenty of speculation through critics online
about whether or not it was homo erotic and romantic,
and I read it as more of a how you
would look at a really old friend of yours or

(20:15):
something and he you know, at some point where we
need to talk about the fact that he does say
that they were they were together in the past life
and you finally get the story at the end, which
maybe we'll save that, but uh, that maybe that was
what it was, was that He looked at him as
like this guy that I love, that I've been through
so much with, but he was someone that he just met. Yeah,

(20:39):
you know that's a great observation because that's there's some
repetition of that throughout the film, Like I feel like
I know you. I'll figure it out eventually, definitely know
you from somewhere. Yeah, when was you saw this in
the theater? I take it. I did. I went out
to see it. It's screened in seventy in Seattle, so
I made sure I got out to see it during

(21:01):
one of those screenings. I think I did too. Actually, Uh,
I think I went with my friend Scotty. And you know,
it's a beautiful, big movie in that seventy millimeter. Uh.
I think he shot it in sixty five, just and
exhibited in seventy, which I didn't know quite was a thing. Um,

(21:21):
how does that work? As a ex projectionist, I can
tell you that you want those millimeters between sixty five
and seventy four your soundtrack. Those are the those are
going to be your soundtrack waveforms in the cellulos. Because
you sixteen millimeter, then it should be thirty two, but
it's thirty five for the soundtrack, Is that right? I

(21:44):
don't know how it works for sixteen millimeter, Okay, I
will say as a projectionist for thirty five millimeter and
for seventy millimeter, that's how it worked, all right, So
it looked great. I mean this he's uh at think,
especially after there will be blood or these two pair together,

(22:04):
he is really at this point in his career come
into his own as just an absolute master of the
visual that you're seeing on screen and book. You know,
it's all that stuff look look great and fine. But
these two man is where he goes like into john
Ford territory of like some some of the all time
masters of like the visual aspects. It's so beautiful and

(22:28):
it's you know, like like john Ford was so good
at like territorial like wide open space gorgeousness. But the
master has so many different types of settings. Right, There's
there's on the ocean, there's on the beach, there's on
the boat, there's inside the boat. There's inside that old

(22:51):
timey house. Yeah, there's there's inside the that what I
what's probably a mansion in England. Yeah, so many different
places made to look beautiful. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's kind
of broken down. Almost each act is has its own
sort of main setting. I mean, that whole first third

(23:13):
is at sea with a little New York, and then
that whole middle chunk is at that house. Uh and
I guess where is that Is that in northern California.
I'm not really sure where it's supposed to Uh yeah,
I mean, yeah, well it's supposed to be Philly, I guess,
but I don't know if they shot it there. But

(23:34):
then that last bit is Phoenix and the desert stuff
in the salt flats. But it's an interesting visual. I mean,
some gorgeous shots, Like all the stuff at sea is amazing.
That shot of him passed out on the top of
the boat when they're throwing sh at him is just unbelievable.
The shot of the the Sea Org and I'm gonna

(23:55):
mix in scientology stuff because let's be honest, the one
of the Sea Org boat going under the Golden Gate
Bridge with the sun going down just unbelievable, so beautiful,
so great. I it's it's unfair, really to watch a
film like this right now. I mean not to date

(24:17):
this episode at all, but not a lot of brand
new movies are coming out right now or or in
the short term, and it I think it's one of
the things that makes this project we're doing so gratifying,
is is returning to things that are great and remembering
how awesome it is to see great movies. Yeah. God,

(24:41):
the shot in the um, like the money he has
in the artists that he can hire to create these worlds,
um that shopping mall, the department store where he takes
on work as a photographer, and that long tracking shot
with the floor model just sort of weaving in and
out of stuff, and just the art direc action is
just incredible, Dude, It's amazing. Bob Elswit is like frequently

(25:05):
Paul Thomas Anderson's camp for his movies, and he was
not in this one. Did you read about who this
guy was? I figured, yeah, I figured it was too.
His name is Mahailamare Jr. He's Romanian and he had

(25:27):
a just a couple of credits before the Master. Imagine
being Mahai and getting and getting the call. How did
he get it? Looks like he did a couple of
couple of films, but like in two thousand nineven couple
of films and then uh, and then he gets the

(25:48):
call to do the master, Like that's a lot of
trust for a P. T A. But this is also
I feel like a version of Paul Thomas Anderson that
that has become way more interested in moving his own
cameras around, in in creating his own compositions, and taking
a heavier hand in the camera in the camera department

(26:11):
specifically than maybe he ever has. And this is like
a trend for him throughout his career. Yeah, I mean
that that just one shot. I mean he's known for
his sort of long, long, single take shots, but they
usually entail sort of like the stuff in Boogie Knights,
like the camera doing these crazy things like going up

(26:33):
on a cherry picker and moving around. But this was
just a very sort of elegant, uh steadicam shot I guess,
kind of weaving through this department store. You know what's
insane about P t A. One of the things is
that like he's that director that sits underneath the camera
and works with actors and looks at it at expression

(26:53):
and and experiences it on a on a personal level.
Like he's not a director who looks into the monitor
and ship and that's it's crazy to think that he's
getting these kind of compositions and sequences like what you're describing,
and I'm not sure he's seeing that through the monitor.

(27:15):
He's looking over at his cinematographer and going, did we
get it? And he's being told that they did. And
what he's watching is is life. If it looks real
in life, then it's good enough for him. And that
feels so risky, it does. You know? I have not
directed a movie, but I uh, I was going to

(27:38):
at one point, and I was sort of been halfway
through raising some money for a very small independent film
and had written the script and I was going to
uh do that that way. I was not going to
be in an attempt looking at a monitor. I wanted
to be really near the camera and watching the scene
play out in front of me. You want to be
an actor's director? That seems to be really way to go. Yeah, um,

(28:02):
I'll probably never know, but I mean, you've directed stuff,
what did you do? I mean, the the the seduction
of doing it, like P. T. A Is has always
been there, Like I, like I mostly did corporate stuff,
but I still worked with professional actors barely often, and

(28:23):
like I always wanted to give it that kind of juice.
I always wanted to be an actor's director, and it's
just it's hard. It's hard when you're not working with
Hollywood budgets, and it's hard when you're not working with
Hollywood cinematographers. Like the level of trust that you get

(28:45):
from working in a system like PTA has been able
to I think allows for that kind of thing in
a way that you and I could probably never experience it.
I feel like it would be very stressful for you
and I to sit cross a good beneath the camera
and watch a scene unfold and just believe that it's

(29:05):
getting captured in the way that you're seeing it. See.
I think I would have a lot easier time because
I was not a camera guy. I would hire people
that knew what they were doing and just say, like,
I've trust that you're getting this and we'll look at
it afterward. But I gotta I gotta stand here and
watch these actors. I think it becomes so much easier
when it's Bob Ellis went over your shoulder, Like I

(29:27):
wouldn't even think about it. If you were him, it
would be done. I mean, let's let's talk about these characters,
maybe kind of one at a time Freddie Quell, the alcoholic,
sort of depraved. Um, there's nothing likable about this guy.

(29:52):
It's really not the kind of character you see a
lot in movies, as you're kind of protagonist in a way. Um,
like I would argue it's his it's really about both
these guys, but it's kind of his movie, even more
than a movie about Lancaster Dodd. But um, just such
a depraved, disgusting, troubled, troubled guy. We talk a lot

(30:15):
on Friendly Fire about how much we respect an actor
willing to give up their vanity for a role, and
this feels like that kind of role. This is a
Joaquin Phoenix who had just come off of the weird
art project of of what was that called I'm Not There?

(30:35):
I think, oh, his like documentary thing. I think this
was the first film he did after that. This was
his return to think your professionalism, maybe i'd call it.
And I think you could make the case right now
in in the year twenty like, if you're drafting actors

(30:57):
in a kind of fantasy actor draft, how is he
not one of the top picks. He's I think he's
one of the greatest living actors we have. And I
think This is an example of that. It's so much
more than just uh an ability to read a line.
It's like a totally inhabited character physically in a way

(31:21):
that is repulsive. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good word. I
kept saying disgusting, but repulsive is really the word I mean.
And they set it up so well in the beginning
with the navy stuff, drinking the rocket fuel. Um standing
there before he jumps onto the sandcastle naked lady and

(31:43):
and has sex with her. Is when he when he's
standing there all hunched over and he stands with his
you know, he's he has that messed up shoulder and
he really plays that up, makes those shoulders go forward,
puts his arms on like sort of the back of
his hips in his side, and just sort of snarls
at the scene and and then just like gets in

(32:05):
there and starts humping the sandcastle like in the first
five minutes of the movie. There's something like oddly familiar
about him and his posture, Like I feel like, growing up,
I knew I encountered old World War Two vets who
with the high waisted pants, who were like bent over

(32:26):
at the waist, who looked like this. Yeah, that's kind
of true. It really feels real. Yeah, and it and
it felt very uh he he very much looked like
a guy from nineteen fifty um. And you know, he's
he's an he's a guy who has the shoulder thing.
He's a guy who has his the scar or whatever.

(32:50):
I'm not sure how that happened on his lip, the
cleft pallette thing. Was it a cleft pallet? I wasn't sure.
I think so. Yeah. But these are like both called
traits that he has used his advantage in his career,
um like in a big way. I think he's really
leaned into both of them. The I've always respected and

(33:13):
been just horrified by an actor's willingness to change their
body for a role, you know, like like the the
Clooney and Sicario or the stallone in Copland where it's inverse,
which is like an emaciated Joaquin Phoenix, Like you know
what he looks like normally, and he's a beautiful person.

(33:37):
But to see him folded in on himself and with
the sunken cheeks and and the crazy eyes, it's it's
really incredible to see an actor do this to themselves. Yeah,
and just his his acting in this movie is just incredible.
It's unbelievable, Like you so understand who this guy is

(34:00):
without being even able to understand, like on a personal level,
like you don't identify, but you fully get who this
dude is. It's so uh, it's so vital to have
Lancaster DoD look at him with love. And I think
he's inserted into this story as soon as possible to
cut off of viewers inclination to just dismiss Freddie Quell

(34:25):
right away. I think, like we get we get the
beginning of the movie belongs to Freddie Quell, but I
think before the of viewers sees him as an utterly
lost cause, we get right up to that line, but
then we get the affection from Lancaster DoD for him,
and it's it stops it just short of of being irredeemable,

(34:48):
because I think I don't think you could do two
and a half hours with Freddy Quell unless you were
at least on some level rooting for his redemption, right
And I think they're be a point of no return
with him that that I think the film knows, and
it's trying to position itself indefensive him, maybe using Lancaster

(35:12):
dot as a way to to prevent you from hating
him in an irredeemable way. See, I don't think I
hated him, but I don't know if I ever rooted
for him in the sense that I was thinking, you know,
let's let's get this guy turned around, Like I didn't care.
I really didn't care about this guy being okay. It

(35:34):
was to me more of a voyeuristic sort of study
of you know, it's it's almost like watching bar Fly
or something, or or thinking about like hanging out with
Charles Bukowski is like irredeemable. Like that's not for me
to say. All I know is I didn't I wasn't
rooting for him. Ever, let's try to let's try to

(35:58):
rewind like the endings of Paul Thomas Anderson films, because
when I saw this film for the first time, I
was almost expecting a Freddie Quell lays in Amy Amy
Adams lap in the end kind of end of Boogie
Night's style redemption for the character. Were you when you

(36:21):
saw this film for the first time, were you expecting
that kind of thing, or were you so turned off
by Quell in the beginning that you were like, well,
I'm just gonna watch this car crash for for two
hours and and be entertained by two of the greatest
living actors. I think I could have seen it. I
don't know if I was hoping for it, but I
think I definitely could have seen it going that way.

(36:43):
When he goes to England at the end, that could
have been Marky Mark going or you know, I mean,
this is just like all those other movies. It's a
father son thing going on. Or I could have seen
it going the way of Daniel plain View. I think
I kept waiting for one of them to kill the other. Yeah, yeah,
but none of his made it clear that that was

(37:04):
on the table. He definitely did um but that. I
think I was waiting for that to happen more than
I was waiting for the Boogie Night's ending. But neither
one of him happened. I wonder to what extent he
knew that in constructing the story, Like if he's playing
with expectations in that way, maybe Yeah. I also think

(37:28):
that P. T. Anderson doesn't think about an audience at all.
I hope he doesn't. I don't. I hope he doesn't
think of me for a second when we're done with
this project. I would like someone to like tweet it
to him maybe, but sure, I don't want to. Uh no,
I don't think he should be doing that. I want
to point out, but yeah, I think he's he's he's

(37:49):
doing his own thing at this point in his career.
Like starting with Their Will Be Blood, I think we
both agreed, was when he really um as sort of
kind of risky as Magnolia wasn't and aspects, uh, he
really kind of took a right turn. I think There
Will Be Blood And then following following up this movie.
It's crazy, it really is. Did either one of them

(38:12):
win an Academy Award? It's so much more open ended
than his other films, it is. Did it win an
Academy Award? Did either one of the guys? Did they
get nominated for Academy Awards for this? Joaquin, Philip Symore, Hoffman,
Amy Adams were nominated for Academy Awards? None of them won?
All right, interesting, Amy Adams was good. I don't know

(38:35):
about Oscar Worthy. She was good. I mean, she was great,
but there wasn't a ton Therefore, I love that boil
happening inside her, like that coiled spring that you knew
was there, and I think I think phillipsy Moore Hoffman
also had that quality in this movie of like an

(38:59):
ability to explode, and he explodes a couple of times
in this movie. Had Amy Adams also had that quality
and in a way that I really appreciated, Like there
were she was definitely a puppet master for Lancaster Dad
in a very interesting way, in a way that the

(39:20):
film does not deeply dive into, but you can tell.
They give her a couple of scenes where where there
is a there's a power to her. The hand jobs.
Oh yeah, you know. I mean, it's funny to like
think about that scene, but I think that's really the
sort of the point of it all was um, I mean,

(39:42):
he is uh completely beholden to her in that scene.
He feels he never feels more like a sort of
broken old man than when he's standing there at the
sink getting jerked off by his wife, who's sort of
like you know the mom in that scene. Almost the
way she's talking to him, it's a little creepy. Will

(40:04):
you come for me? When you come for me? Like,
I mean, she's great. I don't know why I said
she shouldn't have gotten nominated. Not it was very understated role,
but that doesn't mean it was. Are you suggesting that
that would have been a good a good real to
show for her for her nomination, Like they throw to
Amy Adams in the crowd, like clapping a couple of times.

(40:26):
That's me. That's a powerful scene though, will never this
is the chat. One of the many tragedies of Philip
Symore Hoffman's death is that, like we we won't get
a film for film year after year competition of who's

(40:46):
the greatest living actor? The way that like he could
have gone back and forth with Paul Thomas Anderson films
with Daniel day Lewis, like like was there a cut
scene of Daniel day Lewis getting a hand job and
will be blood? And could we possibly measure them against
each other? Yeah? Yeah, man, I miss I miss him
so much. He was such a good actor. And I

(41:08):
read up a little bit more today about his drug
use and how he went out and it's just so
fucking sad and tragic. Had a family and like this
kind of secret addiction after being clean forever, I mean
he was clean for twenty three years. Yeah, you can
never let up with addiction. That's a. That's the thing

(41:32):
our our friend John Roderick has said, it's a it's
a struggle every day there is. Speaking of the scene,
I wanted to just emphasize how great the sound that
Philips you more Hofmun makes if he's either in pain,
like from taking a shot of some firewater coming sound,

(41:57):
or like in the mattress Man commercial Punch Drunk Glove
when he falls onto the ground that, Oh god, it's
so great. I so noticed that in this every time
he took a drink of his moonshine for lack of
a better word, and then when he when he when
he finally came in the hand job scene, it was

(42:18):
the exact same, like sort of painful release sound. It's
one of my favorite sounds in the entire world. Is
that so funny? It is so fucking funny. If if
you're listening to this show and you haven't seen the
mattress Man commercial from Punch Drunk Glove, it's a it's

(42:40):
an extra feature on the DVD and you can see
it on YouTube. It's awesome. It's I'm not even gonna
spoil it, just watch it. Yeah, it's great. I saw that.
I had that I had that DVD back in the day.
Um So the other thing with Freddie is his uh

(43:00):
these fights that he gets in, these physical altercations ranging
from and and each one sort of happens the same way.
He is one provocateur. Each time he is not like
he's starting it. He's not getting picked on. He always
just goes after these guys. And a lot of times

(43:23):
I want to say for no reason that the guy
in the photography studio, he just completely goes after, like
moving those lights in and like attacking this dude. I
love how awkward and painful looking all of the fights
are and that includes and that includes like the fight
he gets into on the lawn with Lancaster Dad later,

(43:44):
Like they're dirty and and awkward, and you hear like
the slap sounds and like it's I have never been
in in like a real fist fight, like in a
fight fight. Yeah, same here, But it seems like it
seems like how they really are in this movie versus
like the punching each other, like the fully sound, punched

(44:08):
for punched rocky style fighting that so often we get
in in movies. Yeah, these are very real and he
you can tell that Joaquin as an actor is really
fucking going for it. Like they're very physical and kind
of brutal, although there aren't a lot of punches thrown.
Um that that fight in the department store early on

(44:28):
really looked like it might have heard him in a
couple of spots that guy is hitting him and throwing him.
He kind of kicked his ass a little bit, which
I love that that guy. Uh. And it's interesting. I
read the New Yorker review from this movie and it said, um,
something about and you know, the first time we meet
Lancaster dott is when he gets his picture taken in
the mall and attacks him. And I was like, that

(44:49):
wasn't Lancaster Dodd. And then it had a little asterisk
and it had a note that said edit. I was
told afterwards that this was in fact credited to another actor.
And I think that pet Anderson tried to. I think
he was clearly trying to make it seem like the
same person. I was like, no, we what's that come? Like?
You just fucking got that wrong, dude, Like just wait

(45:11):
to wait to cover yourself. Yeah, it was pretty bad
because it was clearly just some other guy. Um. But
the reason he love that it's sort of a like
the most insane Jerry McGwire style quitting your job because
he takes the girl with him. Yeah, he does actually
grabs her hand any Um. The reason he gets in

(45:34):
these fights though, is really interesting, Like this one was
I think just some sort of that pent up rage
that he had as a as a person. But then
the other ones were almost all in defense of Lancaster Dodd,
and I got the feeling after like that last one
when the Bill comes down to the basement and the

(45:57):
book has been released that he wrote, and he's just
literally just sort of criticizing, like, man, I think you
should have just made it a pamphlet and it's too
long and meandering and it doesn't make much sense, like
he was offering a genuine critique as a fan of his,
And I started to get the impression that he was
getting in these fights with these guys not because he

(46:18):
was defending him, but because they were bringing to light
what he really knows, which is that he's a fraud.
And it made the truth. Yeah, it made him angry
that he had he's been falling for it, and it
makes him feel good. Well, I mean to put it
into a modern context, I think that is a reaction
that a lot of people have towards uh, confronting uncomfortable

(46:43):
truths right about their belief system even Uh, in no
way could you brook any sort of criticism of of
your beliefs if you're if you're Freddie Quell. There's such
a tension drawn out in that scene, Chuck, where they're
they're in that basement next to the printing press. But
he walks him out, Yeah, here, let's go outside, let's

(47:06):
take a walk. And as he's taking the walk, the
guy I had to put on the subtitles, but he
was he was talking about what a great mystic. He is,
one of the great mystics. So it's not like he
was against him even And he gets him out there
and just like throws him on the ground and basically
tries to like bury his head in the concrete. There's

(47:26):
no faking this sort of of pain during a fight, Like, yeah,
go ahead and like roll around on a sidewalk if
you don't believe me, Like it's it's hard and it sucks.
And there are so many scenes like this, and this
fight scene is one of those examples. Like this looks
so painful. I don't know how many takes you get

(47:46):
out of actors stuff like this. It's two actors who
have have come to an agreement, you know that. Listen,
we're we're gonna we're gonna go for it on this
one and uh, and it's gonna hurt a little bit, Like,
but this is what I mean. Want to be the
guy who accidentally breaks Joaquin Phoenix's nose with a with
an errant knee though, And that's that's the thing that

(48:07):
feels so dangerous if you're if you're not a top
line actor in a film and you're asked to like
go ahead and roll around with him. Yeah, totally. Um.
And there are a lot of like pt Anderson kind
of actors, sort of like there will be blood in
this these people that just have a scene or two
that have these great faces. Um yeah. And you know,

(48:28):
it has a great regular cast like Jesse Plemons. And
I didn't even know who Rommy Malick was at the time.
I kind of forgotten that was neither. When he popped up,
I was like, oh my god. There is Freddie Mercury,
the the guy who plays Mr Moore, the guy who
speaks up at the meeting. Yeah, He's like what he's, he's,

(48:53):
he's one of that guy like he's he's he's a
guy with a great voice and a great face. You know,
he's made a rear out of a great voice and
a great face. Well he did. He's dead, Yeah, Christopher
Revan Welch was it was in Silicon Valley is recently. Yeah,
he's awesome. He narrated something too that I saw. He's
narrated a bunch of stuff, but he was a prominent

(49:15):
narrator of something, and I didn't I looked him up today.
I didn't realize that he'd very sadly died of young
lung cancer in his mid forties. Brutal. Yeah, it's it's
a weird thing about watching movies is like the acceptance

(49:35):
so often, like the acceptance of death right, Like you're
watching films from even the last decade, and to know
that that a lot of these guys aren't around anymore
is is awful. It's awful and amazing too to like
have an artifact to appreciate them. But but it's sad too.

(49:58):
It's sad at the same time. So they dot and
and quell meet um very much by happenstance. I mean,
um Freddie Quell. Basically, I love that we're an hour
into this and we're like, well, let's talk about when
they meet. Well, we're jumping all around. It's not even
we're going three hours tonight check no. Um. You know,

(50:19):
he basically poisons this guy and and Selina's and takes
off that great fucking shot where he's running, you know,
across that that dirt field, being chased by those guys.
But he just happens to stow away on this ship
like they meet by such happenstance, and he's so immediately
taken into the fold um and then rises to the

(50:41):
top as the sort of right hand man man. Even
though there's a bunch of other people around, a bunch
of other men that could have been in that position.
There was some connection there, um, And the only thing
I could figure out was that he was sort of
there's a very yin yang thing going on with these
two guys, like he was He's the animal that he

(51:02):
needed at his side in a way, this kind of
crazy pit bull. I love that we're given the task
of stitching those two scenes together, right because there's kind
of an elliptical edit we see, like one of low
key My favorite compositions in the movie is is we're
overwalking Phoenix's shoulder and we're racking the the focus back

(51:25):
and forth like we're getting those beautiful uh the light
is turning beautiful as we're changing the focal point between
the ship and Freddy Quell's shoulder. And then as soon
as he hops on board in like a really elegant
way avoiding detection, we wake up with him the next
day in the bunk. And I love how we aren't

(51:49):
given a specific story about how he's there or why
he isn't kicked out, And I like that it's up
to us to imagine what that scene was like. Between
between the scenes, I mean, yeah, like at some point
someone had to go to Dot and say, hey, listen
to stowaway came aboard. But it's very I don't know.

(52:09):
I think you're right, like you didn't need that drama. Um.
Another thing I wanted to mention in that shot, though
I didn't notice it until I think it's the third
time I've seen it. I didn't notice it until today.
But when you see that first shot of the boat,
the party's going on up top, but he's down on
that below deck Lancaster Dot is having a cigarette, having

(52:30):
a cool by himself, I think, or there may be
one other person with him. Yeah, but it doesn't like
focus on him or anything. He's just sort of there,
like you don't even know who it is yet at
this point in the minor. Yeah, I love how non
confrontational the film is about all of the ways that

(52:53):
Lancaster Dot uses other people, like like the inference that
the boat was not paid for in the end, that
he ended up using the woman who owned the boat,
as well as as the home that they had that
that parlor party in later on, Like we're we're so

(53:16):
indirect with our knowledge of those things. And I like
being given the respect as a viewer to put that together. Yeah,
I mean this, nothing about this movie is very straightforward.
I think a lot of critics, the ones who didn't
like it were kind of like, what was it about? Even? Yeah,
And you know, there are arguments that it's it's a
movie sort of about an acting exercise in a way, Um,

(53:41):
there aren't these big character arcs that you're used to
seeing where people change and they overcome the obstacle, and
like he really throws all those conventions kind of about
the door with this movie. I mean, as I'm gesturing
towards you as a professional film critic that you are
that I am on the on the hit podcast Friendly Fire.

(54:05):
I think it really it really blows up the film
criticism industrial complex to make a film like this because
I think so often you are looking for that meaning
and what if, what if there isn't one. Yeah, I
mean at the end of the movie, in that last scene,

(54:25):
you you expect some kind of like he goes all
the way to England. He's called on a telephone in
the middle of an anty theater, which is great, and
he goes to England and you get your your waiting
for that thing to happen, and it doesn't happen. And
in fact, one of the great lines of the movie
to me is Joaquin, I think it's sort of trying

(54:48):
to make good a little bit and says, you know,
maybe in the next life, like kind of a throwaway saying,
and he goes very seriously, if we meet in the
next life, you will be my mortal in me and
I will I will show you no mercy. It's such
a great kind of fuck you at the end of
this thing. It's the way that I want to toast

(55:11):
and be toasted for the rest of my life, Like
the next time I see you, Chuck, I hope that's
the toast with me that we share well. And we'll
do it in the in the bar in the valley
right the Boogie the Magnolia Bar. Let's do that because
we're gonna buy the Boogie Night's house. I can't wait. Yeah. Uh,

(55:37):
I meant to mention earlier too. You know, my grandfather
was a was a drunk who would who would do
stuff like this. He was my dad's dad was and
he died when I was like five or something, so
I didn't really know him, but he he was an
old school forties fifties mean ast drunk who would when
he was out of booze, he would drink whatever was

(55:57):
in the medicine cabinet. You know. Wow. Uh not a
good guy to my dad. But I did not have
the pleasure or displeasure of knowing him very well. But
I've heard quite a few stories of stuff like drinking
turpentine and and Lisall and ship like that. Crazy. You
don't get to choose what kind of drunk you are.

(56:19):
And I'm grateful I am that I am a jovial,
sleepy drunk instead of of the other kind. Yeah, me too, man,
fighting fighting drunks. You can't control it, no, and you
can't even hang out with those guys, no, now, you
The best you can do is surround yourself from the

(56:40):
surround yourself with the same kind. Yeah I was. When
I lived in Arizona for a year, I was friends
with this one guy, sort of not even he was
just sort of in the group that I partied with.
And boy, this guy was one of those dudes that
would get in a fight every weekend, and I just
I couldn't be around him because I was always and
I was always, you know, I was the guy I
was always trying to be like, oh no, man, it's cool,

(57:04):
don't do that, like that's gonna ruin everyone's night. Like
co moh man, let's go have fun, let's go be here,
commit let's go over here. It was always let's go
over here, let's get away from what you're mad at
and just come on over here, because that will ruin
the night for everyone, like it does every weekend. But
you couldn't do it, you know, he would, you would
see it in his head and he would go find
that find that guy later at the party and beat
his ass. It's just like those people are angry at life,

(57:26):
you know, sort of like it's pretty hard to chill
out in life anyway. And I just don't understand the
seeking it out the way that is. But that's I mean,
it's a disease, right like like that kind of that
kind of consumption can't be controlled. No, he's I mean
something bad happened to that guy when he was a kid,
you know, had Uh yeah, that's why you you thin

(57:51):
those guys out from your social heart. You surround yourself
with the sleepy laughers like you and me, and then
you're not worrying about punch him out anymore sleepy laughers. Um,
let's talk about the scene, and it's a a sort
of a sequence but really just sort of two scenes
when he first the first processing scene, so, um, it

(58:15):
would be the analog to uh in scientology, what's it
called a I used to know because I did deep
dives in scientology. Oh really, yeah, your on your hip podcast.
Well I read the book and I did I was
sort of obsessed with it for a little while. Um,
not processing, oh ship, I can't remember now. People are

(58:37):
yelling at their radios. But it's a seventeen minute scene, dude,
where he and there's a little bit of flashback because
you get a little bit of the Doris story there,
but um, it keeps coming back and it's seventeen minutes long,
which is crazy. This film really kind of exists out
of time. Because the reason I say that is because

(59:00):
I almost don't believe you when you say that at
seventeen minutes it is. It's so yeah, because there's the
beginning part where he sort of does the processing and
then he farts and that's the end of that part.
And I love that part too, because Phil Hoffman is
just like you, silly animal, but he loves it, you know.

(59:24):
I mean, this is this is what you get when
you're of the caliber of Paul Thomas Anderson. Right, you
get your seventeen minutes scene if you want it. Right,
So you get that beginning part where they sort of
do it but not really, and then it goes into
that really intense around two when he's doing that don't
blink and he's firing the questions and uh, they walk

(59:47):
out of there like that's their bond. Man. That's when
they really fucking come together, and I feel like Freddie
feels like he was really helped. You can see it's
almost like primal screen therapy or something. You can see
on this face, like I actually feel good and I
haven't felt good in a long time. You need those
moments in a movie like this, right, You need you

(01:00:08):
need the pressure released. You can't always exist in Freddie's mind.
I don't think that's a thing you can endure for
for two and a half hours. And so it feels
good to get like a little victory with him, even
if it's even if it's fake, even if it's a

(01:00:30):
charlatan making it happen. I mean, this is the same
feeling I had when he went from wall to window,
like the wall the window seen as another example of
of like the insanity of this practice, and it's it's
a weird kind of montage, right, this is like the
rudy montage of him getting better at football. He's getting

(01:00:51):
better at hypnotizing himself as things go on, and you
kind of like exalt in his victory at the end
of of him finally getting it, even if it is insane,
even if it is coming from inside himself or from
Lancaster Dodd. Yeah, and that's part of a sequence to where, uh,

(01:01:14):
it's right after the family dinner happens, where they're all like,
we've got to get rid of this guy. Man, he's
a legit danger and very magnanimously. Uh, Lancaster Dodd just
sort of says, well, then we have failed him if
we allow him to go um tis tis that not true?
He's he's guy's a tis uh And then they all

(01:01:36):
begin this sort of there's that sequence intercut with Amy
Adams reading him sort of softcore porn, but he does
not want to hear that from her, which is interesting,
like she's he's sort of the only woman in this
movie he doesn't objectify. And then the Ramy Malick stuff
that sort of face to face uh therapy that they're
going through. They're they're just breaking him down basically, they're

(01:01:59):
do doing that therapy because all three of them know
about Rammy Malick's wives attempted hand job. Right. Is that
not part of the thing too? I think so? I
mean she says I think he wants me, and he's definitely.
I feel like they know he's a threat to their marriage.

(01:02:20):
Do you feel like it's intentional that Rami Malick's wife
in this movie, which is one of Dodd's daughters, looks
a lot like the department store lady. Now, I think
that was probably purposeful. They look a lot alike. Yeah,
I think that attractions natural. He sounds like the guy
from the New Yorker. Do you think I mean, do

(01:02:43):
you think she finally got her hand job with him? Like,
no movie, no Hollywood film can have two hand job scenes.
So that's one of the rules of Hollywood, right, Like
I think, so you gotta pick one and cut the other. Uh, yeah,
but you could I think if you're going to read
between the lines and stuff that happens off screen, I

(01:03:04):
could see a dalliance having happened. Yeah, And it's kind
of cool not to know and not to show that.
You know, it's fun to watch a Rami Maleck in
this movie like pre height of his powers, and also
like to a certain extent, Jesse Plemons, like like those

(01:03:24):
two actors are capital G great actors and you can
like to have them on the periphery of this movie
and this story is like God, what a gift. Yeah,
Plemons is awesome and he has one of the lines
um that I love so much, which is he's making
you know, he's just making this stuff up as he
goes and apparently that line and I think you probably

(01:03:46):
know this, but um p t Anderson's screen this for
Tom Cruise, his buddy very obviously noted scientologists, and it's
very clear this is a movie that it was inspired
by l Ron Hubbard in the beginnings of scientology, even
though all he did and all Harvey Weinstein and Mirrimax
and everyone did was like, no, it's not about scientology
at all. It's like super amount to believe Harvey Weinstein

(01:04:10):
with whatever he tells you. Yeah, very trustworthy guy. But um,
I wish it. What was I just saying, screened it
for Tom Cruise? Yeah, yeah, screen it for Cruise. And
that was the biggest part that he had a problem with.
He was really upset about that scene where he said
he's making it up as he goes along. That was
low key. One of the really that was one of

(01:04:32):
my favorite compositions of the film is like Freddie Quell
staggering out to the porch, you know, finishing his flask.
Maybe he knows that Val is out there, maybe he doesn't,
but it doesn't really matter. And that confrontation. It's it's

(01:04:55):
just a really beautiful scene. I think it's one of
my favorite scenes in the movie. And like it's that
that energy. I feel like so many characters have the
energy in this film of suppressing their true feelings, suppressing
their true nature. Val Dot is one of those characters.

(01:05:15):
Like the way that he is told repeatedly, I can
see the resemblance is so painful to him. You can
see it every time. And it's great casting to cast
Plemons as a young Philip Stymore Hoffman to get that

(01:05:37):
when you don't believe anything about your father is like
there's a repetition in that that is is great, Like
it's really well used. Yeah, I'm aware, I'm I understand
that feeling. I look just like my dad. And every
time I see a relative that sort of out of

(01:06:00):
the loop and they just talk a glow about how
much I look like my dad, and I was like,
let's just stop talking about that. At at one point
in my career, I worked for the same company that
my dad did, with many of the same people after
he retired, and it was something that I heard fairly
often and it cut every time, not a compliment. Yeah, Well,

(01:06:25):
I'm glad we have that in common, dude, at least
we can. That's why we're doing this pt Anderson series, right, right, right,
this is why this is therapy. Um. I do love
that scene too, when when he attacks him. Basically, I
feel like it's for that same reason, not like, no,
your dad is a genius and a brilliant man. It's no,

(01:06:47):
don't say these things that, Like, this is the only
person who likes me and this is the only sort
of goodness that I have going in my life, and
I know it's fake, and I don't want to be
told it's fake, right, Like he never believes it, right, No,
I mean that seems impossible, but you you never want
to be told that. I mean, this is another thing

(01:07:09):
about contemporary society, Like you never want to be told
that your belief system is wrong or fucked up or
that hurts other people. Yeah, uh, that's it's I feel
like it's a part of human nature to defend that
as much as you can, because because you you just
take it personally. Yeah, I feel like that that Freddie

(01:07:32):
Quell is just h He has found a sort of
weird families, just like Marky Mark did that accepted him
he doesn't have to work. He is fed and clothed
and kept in booze, and um, I feel like he's
passing the time with these people. I never felt like

(01:07:53):
he believed it, But he's participating though, like genuinely participating.
That's part of the fun in this film. I think
is is going back and forth between what he may
or may not believe, and I think it's part of
It's part of the weird, like dreamlike quality of this movie, right, Like,

(01:08:16):
are you sure what is real and what isn't in
this movie? I feel like I knew the rules of
the film up until the point that he took the
phone call in the movie theater, which I know you
agree with me. You should never take a phone call
in the movie theater. Yeah, but that that definitely seemed
like an impossibility. We realize that that's a fantasy that

(01:08:37):
he acts upon before he goes out to Europe. But like,
knowing that that scene exists in a film like this,
are you sure of any other scene actually existing here?
Are you sure that Freddie Quell's entire story isn't made up?
Because when he ends up in the sand next to
next to sand boobs, again, I'm I'm not so sure. Really,

(01:09:02):
I'm willing to believe that that the entire thing is
a fantasy. It doesn't ruin the film at all for me,
but interesting, but I think it suggests a squishiness and
the reality for Freddie Quell. Yeah, I think I didn't
think too much about the phone call other than like, well,
there's no way you can know he was there, um,

(01:09:22):
But yeah, that does sort of throw throw a seed
of doubt into the whole thing, kind of finishing up
on that one scene though, it's one of my favorite
lines in the movie. God Phil Hoffman is so good

(01:09:43):
in this, but when he comes out when the cops
are there to get him, and he's just so incredulous,
just like l Ron Hubbard, Like you get I mean,
it's a really good portrayal. You get a sense this
is just how l Ron Hubbard would have been if
the cops showed up and he goes, this is comic opera.
Such a great line, is it illegal in the city

(01:10:03):
to get better? It's too bad we'll never get a
real l Ron Harvard movie because there's a there's a
ton of like fascinating shit about that guy. But why,
why don't you think we will. I think we could.
I think I think scientology is a very powerful force.

(01:10:23):
I don't think they are as much as they once were.
I don't think they can shudge yeah, man, I think
they've been exposed to a degree in where they can't
shut it down like they used to. Look, man, I
live in l A. I don't want to be chained
to a radiator in in some in some boats somewhere. Man,
you're not gonna hear me besmirch scientology on this show.

(01:10:45):
Another one of my favorite lines, and it's one of
the two times that Philip seymourhof and let's that rage
come out, is when he's being questioned by the guy
and he goes, if you already know the answers to
your question, then why do you ask? Big? How how
many times have you rewind that scene today? Get three times?

(01:11:10):
It's so rewatchable and as great of a director as
Paul Thomas Anderson is, I don't know that you evoke
that out of Philip Sumour Hoffman. I think that's within
him to do. And I could get I could get
a hundred runs at that line reading and and never

(01:11:31):
do it the way that Philip Sumore Hoffman does. There's
like half of it is sticato and the other half
isn't so good. And it's such a build up of
like interruption, right working on a thing and some fucking
guys excuse asking a question, Excuse me, this isn't the
Q and a portion of the thing. Guy. He successfully

(01:11:53):
ignores him enough, and the guy keeps saying, excuse me.
Um oh man, it's so good and and you know
it's it's the built up, uh taught, coiled spring of
having to always be defending yourself. But I think where
why it works so well is they didn't show any
of that in this movie. Hardly they should that there's
that scene, there's and that's kind of it. I mean,

(01:12:16):
there's the two times he blows up actually very innocently.
Laura Dern's character kind of calls him on his bullshit
and he gets caught kind of red handed delivering bullshit,
and his his excuses it very good and he knows it,
so he just blows up at her. You know who
I love, And both of those scenes. I love Laura

(01:12:38):
Dern and I love Amy Adams because there's we cut
away to Amy Adams and that first disruption and you
can see her coiled rage is never released. You can
just see it like vibrating there. And you can, to
a certain extent, see the same thing in Laura Dern,

(01:13:01):
like like she's put off an incredulous and she never
gets her release either. And I think and I think
they they do such work in this movie in in
like you need to cut away right, like technically you
can't just stay on Dodd for his spring and explosion.

(01:13:23):
You need reactions, and and the reactions in this film
are are so useful and good. Yeah, I'd be interested
to know what's on the cutting room floor of this
movie if there's a three hour version. Yeah, I could
see some some uh, I could see some scenes being
in this that weren't that could have benefited it. But

(01:13:45):
that's not to knock it, Like I think it's a
great film. Maybe there's a second hand job, you know,
I hope um. And And the interesting thing too about
when he blows up at Laura Dern. It's sort of
that third act that cracks are forming feeling Yeah a
little bit, you know, but he didn't hammer at home.

(01:14:06):
It's not like I think a less or maybe more
obvious filmmaker might have really had a bunch of scenes
where people are onto him and there's a news report
and there's the media, but like they're really in a
bubble with the cause. There's not a lot of outsiders ever.
That's a really great observation. We never get outside of

(01:14:28):
this ecosystem, and even like the outsiders that we get
are still inside it. Right, Like that guy's at the
meeting the questions is there, Yeah, John Moore like got
an invitation, right, He's allowed to go to the party.

(01:14:48):
Is that the same party that ends up being naked later?
According to Freddie quele Yea, the singing scene um really interesting,
Like that was it felt very kubricky in somehow great
call and not just and not just because of eyes
watch Shutt. Just something about it, like this alternate reality
of this guy imagining every every woman in there being

(01:15:10):
naked with this giant merkins. Imagine being the the casting
director that's like, all right, seventy four year old actor, like,
you've done You've done the lines perfectly. We really love
your performance. How comfortable are you with nudity? And the
actors Like, I mean I read the scene, there's no

(01:15:34):
suggestion of nudity whatsoever. What are we talking about here.
Have you seen a Kubrick movie? Right, here's your giant
Gabe Kaplan Merkin. God, Hey, here's the question. I don't
mean to put you on the spot. Do it. You're
casting a Paul Thomas Anderson movie, but the condition is

(01:15:59):
you go to hang dong? Do you do it like
I'm the actor? Yeah, you're in the party scene, Chuck Adam.
There is not an amount of money in the world
where I would hang dong for other people to see. Wow,

(01:16:21):
I grew up Southern Baptist dude, I am. I am
ashamed of nudity. I am also my My wife makes
fun of me for being an ever nude. I don't
even like to undress in front of her. There's no
way would you. I think it says a lot about
my appreciation for Paul town Miss Anderson that I would think.

(01:16:44):
I really would just imagine that cemented in time forever,
like the dong of the present that is on that
blue ray evermore. Uh yeah, I mean the only way
I do that as if I had a a complete
face covering mask. Give me the Mark Wahlberg dong, give

(01:17:09):
me the boogie nights. Don't break that thing out of
the safe. Yeah, I do that. Um, let's talk about
the jail scene. Uh, you know, the cops come. Freddie
gets in a fight on the front porch with the cops.
Another great fight in the movie. Uh, kind of brutal,
and they end up in adjoining cells. Lancaster Dat is
already in there and they dump Freddy in there next

(01:17:30):
to him, handcuffed, And because he's handcuffs, he can't punch
the wall like he wants to, so he reacts like
an animal again and just is banging his shoulders against
the cot and like he breaks the fucking toilet with
his boot. I mean, it's it's really really a great,
great scene. The like filmmaker and me saw him break

(01:17:51):
that toilet and go like, oh fuck, Like do we
have to shoot the second take? And like a couple
of cells over are we just moving down? I don't
think that it was an accident, but I think it's
one of those moments where you watch it as a

(01:18:11):
as a director and go like, this is why you
cast Joaquin Phoenix. That was my It's okay that he
destroyed your set. That was that was my question watching it,
And my question for you your take is that he
just did that, and my I was wondering, was it
a rigged toilet that they reset every time? It certainly

(01:18:35):
feels like it just happened in the moment. But the magic, Hey,
when we start a band, can we call it rigged toilet?
The magic of movie making? Though? You know it goes dude, like,
would you be disappointed to learn that, like, oh no, no no, no,
we had a toilet that broke away and we reset
it every time because it looks so great. Would that
disappoint you? There's something so dangerous about this entire scene that, like,

(01:19:00):
I want to believe that this was the one cell
that they could use side by side and these were
the steaks, because it's a film about steaks in a
lot of ways, and this is a scene that's emblematic
of that. Like the split screenness of it, the stillness

(01:19:20):
of one side at the diptych and and the tornado
happening on the other is so amazing. I think it's
one of the great scenes in all of movies. Yeah,
and Dodd's dialogue is so good in that scene, Like,
I just I can't imagine how much fun it was
to sit down and write some of his dialogue as

(01:19:42):
a screenwriter. I love the idea of a spike piss,
like I'm a piss at the end of the scene
in my in my still put together toilet that you
don't have. I forgot about that. That was the perfect
way that to put the cherry on that scene. It's
so it's so passive aggressive um. And you know that

(01:20:06):
sort of spends us into our third act, which is
the desert location. They go to Phoenix for the the
unveiling of book Too, and they and and it's such
a It's so funny to me that Paul Thomas Anderson
with a straight face could say, like, no, this isn't
really based on scientology. Lenny's smoking cools and he has
this this box buried in the middle of the desert

(01:20:30):
containing his lfe's work in it. Like that is so
l Ron Hubbard. It's straight out of South Park, for sure.
And then the book sucks. What was it called the
uh the the cut lists. Yeah, there's something two Sides
of the Saber or something like that. Yeah, yeah, it is,
but uh. And when they're printing it, you see the

(01:20:51):
sort of subtitle a book for a book for Homo
sapiens or something like that, A gift. Yeah, it's always
a gift, isn't it. It's so great though, Man, they
dig up this box and that that whole desert sequence
is so weird because it's just the notion of this

(01:21:12):
game called pick a spot. It's so dumb, but it works.
Have you ever ridden a motorcycle? So when I was
a kid, I had a friend with a dirt bike
and I would ride that a little bit. And then
later on my dad had a motorcycle for one summer
when I was like ten, and I rode on the

(01:21:35):
back of that a couple of times. But he wrecked
it with me on it when we were going camping once.
It wasn't It was kind of the deal where we
were pulling into a camping like a dirt road from
the main road like to go camping, and there was
all this fresh grabble and uh so it was slow,
but I remember, it's so funny. I remember seeing that
grabble and being like, we're gonna go down and he

(01:21:58):
and he pulled in and slow and started a slide
and I bailed because I kind of saw it coming,
so I didn't get hurt, but he burned his leg
on the muffler and that was kind of it. I mean,
it was a very low speed thing. But other than that,
I've never driven a motorcycle. Have you know. The closest
I've gotten is a is a quad like everritten, ever

(01:22:20):
ridden sand dunes and not close, my friend. I know
it's not. It's not, but but it's it's close in
terms of temperature and sound. It's hot and loud. Yeah,
and you've got handlebars. Yeah. Yeah, it's not the same.
But boy, the idea of going out into the desert
or to a salt flat or something and doing this

(01:22:43):
very interesting to me. I would do it if you would.
It looks exhilarating. I do it if you would. I mean,
Philip smore hopping looked like he was having at the
time of his life. Yeah, he was hooting in holler
and I was I sort of think I remember seeing
this for the first time, thinking that this was he
was trying to get Freddy to die by his own

(01:23:05):
hand for some reason. And I even thought that a
little bit today, like he brought him out there to
sort of stage and accident, that that really happened. There
is even a suggestion of that when we when we're
in very close on Lancaster Dad's face and he, I

(01:23:25):
don't know. He says something ambiguous about what he's seeing,
as if he's witnessed the death of Freddie Quell that
that you're expecting it. It's setting you up for that
did not personally set me up for him just riding
away forever and he just kept going. A great shot

(01:23:46):
of them walking with a car behind him at the
end was fantastic, Like he wouldn't even get the motorcycle. Uh.
That's another one of my favorite lines is I don't
know if you caught it. I had to subtitle it.
But when he tells Freddie to pick a spot and
he said, tell me what it is, and he goes
from that point over there, at that point in mountain,
he goes, uh, he goes that head and he went,

(01:24:07):
it's an alligator's head. It's such a cool line, like
do you write that or just Phil Hoffman make that
up on the in the moment because it looked like
an alligator. I mean, Lancaster Died is a character who's
who sees things that in a different way, like he's
all I feel like he's always going to describe things

(01:24:29):
in that way, in a way that impresses the people
around him. Yeah, and the same. It also reminds me
of the way that he would And this was so
l Ron Hubbard in Scientology, that sequence where the book
is coming out and they're doing sort of the promo photography,
and that great sequence when he's he's got the cowboy
outfit and he's the rancher and then he's at the

(01:24:51):
desk with that giant quill and inc incpin and it's
just so like l Ron Hubbard in the fifties, so serious.
I think. I think that's the scene that stuck out
to me in the movie trailer was I feel like
there was a montage of those portraits being taken of

(01:25:13):
Philip Seymour Hoffmann and that like that serious portrait studio
hands clasped, perfectly lit quality I mean, and and going
back to the very beginning of the film, like the
quality of family portraiture in a department store of that time.

(01:25:35):
It's so perfect and beautiful looking. Well, dude, the colors.
I'm glad you mentioned that because that was one of
the things from my list from earlier that I didn't mention.
The the color in the in the composition of those
shots early on that fifties technicolor. It's just it's like
magic looking. It really is. I mean, you and I

(01:25:58):
have production experience, like I don't I want where how
do you even do that? How do you like intentionally
make it look so perfect? It's it's one of the
magic tricks of this film. It's great and it's one
of the things that like that establishes Freddie Quell's otherness.

(01:26:18):
Like he's seeing families get together to take these pictures
that he gets to observe over and over again. He's
experiencing this as an outside observer, just taking pictures. He
never gets to be in the photo. Yeah, and I
think that's, you know, sort of like the p. T
Anderson theme that we keep talking about with these weird families.

(01:26:40):
He doesn't have that. He is the market mark character. Um,
he's just disgusting, sort of depraved guy who had this
one maybe shot at love. But you also sort of
don't even get the feeling that Doris was I think
only in his mind was she Were they really going

(01:27:01):
to be a thing that just didn't quite work out.
I'm so glad that in the minute we're finally bringing
up Doris, who maybe the reason for the whole thing. Yeah, right, Doris,
Doris of a strong Norwegian family. You know, Doris's family

(01:27:23):
going to take her back to the homeland to meet
the rest of the family. I mean, these are concepts
that are totally alien to a Freddie quell. Yeah, he
tells her not to go. Yeah, before he does, I know,
and then it's like, I'm out of here. You should
go to Norway or whatever. I love the actor who

(01:27:46):
plays Doris's mom in that scene. I love so much
about this scene because it is an It's an example
of Freddie turning the corner. Like everything that Lancaster Dot
has impregnated in him about suppressing his animalism is here

(01:28:09):
because this is the test, right. Yeah, Like she's she
is almost uniquely suited to pressing every bruise that he's got,
and he's just absorbing the pain over and over again
with every line. And she's so like, she's so like
Nork Nork chill in a way that if you know

(01:28:33):
people who are like, it's just perfect. Yeah. I mean
that was a tense scene. You keep I mean, you're
waiting for him, yeah, to hurt her or just to explode.
And the last time he was at this house he
like tore out the window. Yeah, but it sort of
gives you the idea that I mean in that Act
three he's a little bit of a success story, but

(01:28:55):
in the way that P. T. Anderson would do it,
which is again not to be obvious and show him like,
you know, it's some great job and he's really succeeding
in life. But it hints that he's gotten a little
better because of the cause. I want to float something
at you right now. This is that's going to feel
a little film papery. Oh here we go, which is

(01:29:18):
like you remember the Jason Robard's monologue at the end
of Magnolia about like the most corrosive aspect to a
person's life is like the regret, goddamn regret. Exactly what
do you think this is? Like? This is the same thing.
This is like, this is the idea of the regret

(01:29:40):
of doing a thing and failing is not nearly as
bad as the not doing of a thing at all.
And this is the confrontation that Freddie Quell has with
that idea, Like he had a chance to make a
thing with Doris and and he he punched out, He
hit the eject button before he had a asked to
truly realize it. Well, do go out on that limb.

(01:30:03):
I think you're right on the money, because earlier in
the processing scene two of the very pointed questions he asked,
or do you regret your life's actions or whatever? Do
you have your life regrets? And then, um, what was
the other one? It wasn't life regrets? Oh well, he
sort of asked him about uh, when he has sex
with his aunt, he asked them, he asked him if

(01:30:25):
he regrets doing that, and like why he did that?
And I think both of those sort of tie in.
It feels like the superficial question about Paul Thomas anderson
films might be are they about family and the like
the Varsity team question that that you and I play
for is are his films about regret? Yeah? And I

(01:30:48):
believe they are. Yeah. I think you're right. I think
all of his films you can sort of tie that
thread through, you know. Yeah, Yeah, I think that's why
they hit so hard. Yeah, because this, again, this is
a movie that doesn't have characters that you really relate
to our root for in a traditional sense, but it

(01:31:09):
still hits hard. And it's usually those other things that
do hit hard is you're relating or feeling for these people,
So he's pulling like he's got a toolbox here that
you don't see a lot. Like everyone knows what it's
like to exist in a family. You know whether or
not that that relationship is positive or negative. But like,

(01:31:33):
I feel like a person's relationship with regret is so
much more relatable person to person, like you and I.
You and I can share in what our regrets are
in a way that like makes that uh, that feeling
a transaction and there's like a currency to that that

(01:31:53):
that feels even the the and and like while our
families might be a friend, I feel like our regrets
might be at a at a far more acute level
of feeling. And that might be like, like if you're
really trying to make a film or a series of

(01:32:14):
films that makes you feel a thing like what is
what is like the what's the deepest part of being
a human being that that levels the playing field? What's
the thing that that that I can relate to you
on on a level even though we've had totally separate lives.
It's how our regrets make us feel. I feel like

(01:32:37):
those are very similar feelings person to person. How that
feels deeply Yeah, it's it's sort of the great equalizer,
Like it doesn't matter what the regret is, it's that
same underlying feeling. Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. That might
be the great late motif of Paul Thomas Anderson films. Yeah,
we should get him on here and ask him. I'd

(01:32:59):
love to. Let's let's do the interview at the boogie
unit's house that you and I buy as a business expense.
So let's wrap it up here with that scene when
he finally goes back to England and he you know,
he he meets them in this uh, cavernous off I mean,
you can't even call it an office. He set up

(01:33:19):
his desk in this you know, sort of palatial room
and um, amy at us. How great is the lighting
of this scene, right, It's like it's shriekingly back lit. Yeah. Yeah,
and yet and yet like everything's bounced back up in
his face. It's yeah, we don't I feel like we,

(01:33:42):
as in people who talk about movies, do not call
attention to like the work of those who light scenes
in a way that we should, because this scene in
particular is incredibly lit. Yeah, it's a lot of work
to light a room that big with that much natural light. Um,
but Amy Adams isn't having it, you know. She just
sort of dismisses him as is still on the drink

(01:34:06):
and you can't handle this life straight and she leaves
and you you feel like that had to happen in
the scene because there's almost that moment there kind of
is that's that moment where they both look at each
other like, well, I'm glad she's gone and it's and
it's us just us. Whatever. Did you notice her eyes

(01:34:27):
were black in that scene? Now where are they? Now?
I'm just teasing, but you were ready to believe that, right,
it was because after that scene where she said to
change your ey color or whatever. There's kind of a
supernatural quality to Amy Adams in this movie, yeah, I think,
And this is a scene that demonstrates it. Yeah, Like

(01:34:52):
like like Lancaster Dad is in fear of his wife,
or at least the sort of respect of a wife
that allows for that kind of fear, And when she
leaves the room, you're totally right, Chuck like his shoulder slump.
He's like, God, I can finally get into these four
packs of cools with my buddy, Yeah, you brought him

(01:35:16):
the cools. Such a solid man. But you know that
scene though, is very uh, it did not go the
way that you would expect it to go in a
in a movie, you know, that's usually a big reconciliation
or something, and and it's, uh, he gets this great
story about where they where he feels like they met

(01:35:38):
before that's just batshit about them being on the pigeon
force or whatever with the Prussians bearing down on them,
and like, it's so great. How do you write that ship?
Is this a war movie? Chuck? Like, given the torpedo
beginning and and the balloon ending, it's so great, Like,

(01:36:03):
how do you write that out? It's crazy to think of,
like Paul Thomas Anderson thinking of that, like where would
they have met? Because he could have done anything. You
feel like Lancaster Dad doesn't even believe it when you're
saying it right sort of. I got that feeling, did you.
I don't know, man, I couldn't tell, Like the Iron

(01:36:24):
Hubbards of the world. That's why I'm so fascinated by
it all. I can never suss out if they eventually
bought into their own ship or if they were just
Charlatan's to the bone. This is a magic of working
with the greatest actors. Though, Like if it isn't the truth,
then as Paul Thomas Anderson going, can you give me

(01:36:47):
a nine point five on the story? Yeah, just roll
a little bit off of it, because I feel like
there's a little bit rolled off of this story you
think at the end. Yeah, I don't think his heart's
in it the way that it's in everything else. And
it maybe just like the passage of time has suggested

(01:37:07):
an amount of fatigue in the sort of leadership style
storytelling that that leads us to this point in this
character story. But I don't know, maybe neither of them
believe it. Maybe maybe Lancaster Dodd does utterly the way
he believes everything else about himself. But well, that's the
scene I'm gonna watch again after we're done. Um, I'm

(01:37:31):
gonna cue that one up because boy, I was you know,
I would think I've talked about this before. I'd always
try to picture the writer at a computer or at
a laptop actually like writing this stuff, and that that
that bit of dialogue about them being in the war
sending these balloons up, because he could have done anything

(01:37:52):
they could have met anywhere. He could have said they
were cavemen together and that the Paleolithic era or whatever like.
He could have on in any direction throughout history, and
they could have done They could have been Chimney sweeps
in London, they could have whatever. They could have been,
butch Cassidy in the Sundance Kid, And it was important
that they did something important, and it was important that

(01:38:13):
there was a statistical specificity to it. I feel like
this is that a lot of magicians use, like like
this has got to be true because it's so specific, Right,
only two balloons were lost. That's a detail that that
a practiced leader would use, right, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, man,

(01:38:38):
And it's very it's very clear that he's being specific
about that we only lost two balloons through the whole thing. Yeah, yeah,
Like Jachin's probably Freddy's probably impressed by that. I mean,
the tears you see from him, you could understand, are
like this is this is would buy between them. But

(01:39:02):
it's also maybe finally a recognition of the lie of
the whole thing. Oh wow, yeah, how could you How
could you not convince Freddie Quell of anything? He's so
he's so suggestible he's so drunk and dumb. But this
is the maybe maybe the point that's that's too far,

(01:39:26):
and maybe the tears are from that as well. Yeah,
you wonder if he uh, if you went in there
almost hoping that the story would be I think you
you know, you took my friends picture at the mall
one day and I was there shopping in a like

(01:39:48):
something believable, and like when he gets this fantastical story,
he's just like it's it's fully seals the deal that, Yeah,
this guy is so full of shit. Yeah, yeah, there
is a I feel like you could make the case

(01:40:08):
that the film could end there. Yeah, but you get
that last scene, you do, you get you get the
lady at the bar freddie Quell still in Europe. He
he makes eyes with the lady across the bar. He
gets her to buy him a drink, which chuck, I
don't know by you, I don't know. I don't know

(01:40:29):
if that's ever happened to me. I don't think that's
ever happened to me either. I'm buying my own drinks, brother,
and uh. And they end up going back to wherever.
Here's the thing. They go back to where she's staying right, yeah,
I think so, there's no chance that Freddie's got a
place to stay. And he kind of gives her the business, yea,

(01:40:50):
the questions business. Yeah, and he is delighted by her answers. Yeah,
Like you get the herd feeling. This is the beginning
of something for them. Right. She's great. I like her
a lot. She's good and he and he's he's still
sort of the animal because it fell out. Put it

(01:41:14):
back in. We've all had it fallout, Chuck, We've all
asked for it to be put back in. Oh boy,
good stuff. This is a very very familiar moment. What
a movie man, I mean, yeah, Like, I think what
I respect most about pt Anderson at this point in

(01:41:35):
this phase in his career when he made this and
There Will Be Blood, was that he wasn't, like I said,
he forgot about the audience. He wasn't even out to
entertain necessarily. I think I don't know what was going
through his head. But I love these movies. They're challenging
as hell. I think I like There Will Be Blood more. Yeah,

(01:41:57):
it's not like a band lee eater who like turns
his back to the audience, who doesn't want them to
see the music being played like. It's not that inscrutable,
but it's very much a feeling of this is the
story I'm trying to tell. Try to keep up, try
to project your own life onto it in a way

(01:42:20):
that's satisfying. It really God, it's I I might agree
with you that that the film that came before might
be the favorite of the two, but it's no less
satisfying to watch the master It's there's so much here.
It's really great just to watch the acting. It's like

(01:42:43):
it's just a masterclass. Man. It's ridiculous, it really is,
And that's what makes it great and sad in a
way that, like so many PTA films are great and sad,
absolutely good stuff. Dude talks, Yeah, I think we did.

(01:43:05):
And good job by you. We get to talk about
our dads. It's always with pt Anderson, we always we
always get to dig in there. Yeah, yeah, sure do
All right, we'll save some of that for the after show. Well,
I think what what's next is Inherent Vice, right, which,
as you know, is somehow a movie I did not see.

(01:43:27):
WHOA What I didn't see it. Man, it got such
ship that it got by me, and I was like,
I don't want to see it if it's no good.
And then just as a film student and p T.
Anderson fan, I like just dropped the ball. There's no excuse.
I mean, if you're working with Joaquin Phoenix, you want
to work with him again, right, Like definitely, I can

(01:43:49):
definitely understand that. But also, if you're Paul Thomas Anderson,
let's just say that you have a number of films
to do in your career, Okay, I mean it's to
adapt something else I think is an interesting exercise. But

(01:44:11):
as a consumer of film and a consumer of his
work specifically, like I would not make that trade. Like
I would always choose an original work written and directed
by Paul Thomas Anderson than an adaptation of a work,
which is what this next one is. But I can
totally understand a creative person's instinct to get uncomfortable and

(01:44:35):
try something different. So I I respect it and I
love it, but I hope it's not at the expense
of a project that he makes himself. Because he's so
he's so great. I can't wait to see it. Uh,
And that'll be interesting too because it'll be super fresh
for me. And uh yeah, that'll be a different sort
of episode for us. We need more therapy clearly, well

(01:45:00):
movie therapy specifically. All right, brother, well that was a
good one. I hope the listeners are still enjoying the
pt Anderson series. We want to get it to him
one day. I think that will happen. I think he
needs and he needs to hear these shows. I'd love
that very much. Let's do the wrap up show with
him at the Boogie Night's House. Absolutely all right. I
think you've got that kind of pull shit. Good way

(01:45:24):
to end. Thanks buddy, Thank you man. It's great to
do this again. I missed you a lot. I missed
you too. Louie Crush has produced, edited, and engineered by
Ramsey unt here in our home studio at Pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia.

(01:45:46):
For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.

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