Holly Frey on Rogue One

Everybody's favorite Star Wars fan, Holly Frey, sits in with Chuck to dive into Rogue One.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, everybody,

(00:30):
Welcome to Movie Crush. Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Here in
my basement and sitting across re mere inches for me
on my laptop screen is the lovely, winsome, charming, fantastic
Holly Fry from stuff you missed in history class and
how stuff works, well, not even anymore. I guess we're
just heart It's so second nature to say that. Executive

(00:52):
producer Holly Fry, Hi, Hi, Hi, I know it's a
welcome to my closet and all of the shoes and
clothes therein. Yeah, we were This is in all, honestly everyone,
Because I'm not a good actor. This is take two.
We had a bit of a glitch. It was my faults.
But Holly is in her closet with all her homemade

(01:13):
clothes and custom shoes, custom custom vans, a lot of
slip on vans, a lot of those. Yeah, I see
Star Wars vans. Well those are Vans brand, but they
are that style because Vans would not print those. There's
not that option, no, because it's um it's I don't
have a license for those. What are Oh, that's right,

(01:35):
and they'll just say, Nope, you can't do it because
you might sell them. That's exactly correct. Well, what are
your Star Wars shoes? Let's name them? How long do
you have? Like I literally have a whole bunch like
I have. UM, I have like your top five, oh
my top five, Okay. I have a lot that are

(01:55):
not customed that are from the brand Posey, which makes
They're an amazing sustainable um sustainably sourced shoe brand, and
they make fabulous stuff and I have a lot of
their stuff. But for mine that I have made custom,
I have several Grito ones. One of my favorites is
a pair that is UM. It's kind of like a
stretchy pull on sneaker and it's based on the Louis

(02:18):
the fourteenth design that you can get on slippers at Versailles,
except it's Grito UM. I have a couple of Princess
Leah ones. UM. I have old school classic Princess Leia
in her white outfit. There's a great photograph of Carrie
Fisher in that costume, and it is not one of
the photos that regularly circulates, where she's just got this

(02:39):
great sort of impish grin on her face and it's
like the most carry Fisher that Princess Leiah has ever looked.
And so I had that put on shoes. Um, and
then I have some from the sequel trilogy where she
is a mature woman, because I love some of those
shots as well. Um, I have I have a lot
of a lot of Star Wars shoes. Boy, how like

(02:59):
the moment uh when you first see her on the
on the more recent films was just like you can't
be our age and not uh just lose it the
second she comes on screen, all of them really, Oh yeah,
I mean Carrie Fisher in particular, right, is uh one
of those women who I think for women my age

(03:22):
and particularly uh ladies who are not necessarily like really
gonna fit in in the mainstream. Um. She was very
much like the North Star right outside of Star Wars completely,
Like I remember picking up her books when I was
a teenager and being like, oh my god, I'm I'm

(03:43):
still a weirdo, but I'm not alone in my weirdowness
like other people deal with the same sort of weird
brain jumps where you're processing the world differently from other people.
And and she's just so witty and sharp, and I
mean who wouldn't be in love with that? So yeah, yeah,
I mean, god, she was the best. And I think
they I think they handled her passing with class and

(04:06):
as best they could. And I think they did a
good job kind of weaving her into that story in
a way that wasn't didn't feel contrived. Yeah, and I
really liked that her daughter was very much a part
of that process and very much sort of the keeper
of that legacy and making sure that it it it

(04:27):
was true to what you know her mother would have
wanted in that case. So well, I thought before we
and by the way, I would love to count on
you for um sort of a series of star wars,
whether it's we'll do some just the two of us,
maybe we'll get together. I know, um Annie wants to
do Empire Strikes Back, so maybe the three of us
can do that one happily. And Paul is really into

(04:50):
I think Rise of Skywalker, so we could get some
different combinations of people together. I think that would be fun. Yes,
And this has been way too long income it took
a quarantine and pandemic to finally open up our schedules.
I guess Yeah, I mean I will talk Star Wars
until the cows come home, and then I'll talk about

(05:11):
it to the cows, and then the cows will walk away,
and I'll be like, is there a sheep or a
gopher that wants to talk about Star Wars? And in
my version, some cute little gopher raises his hand and
it's like, sure, yeah, yes, I really like Babu frick Um.
So before we get going on rogue one, though, I
thought I would love to just hear a little bit

(05:32):
about um because everyone knows you love Star Wars, but
I don't know how often you've in a public forum
you've been able to talk sort of personally about your
entree into it and what it means to you and
what it meant to you. Then. Yeah, So for me,
star Wars and I share birthday. A new hope which
was then just called Star Wars came out on my
six birthday. It's amazing. It was just so cool. And

(05:56):
May six four? Why is it May the fourth be
with you then? Because it it just sounds four correct? Correct?
So it was when when? Okay, So I was born
March fifteen, so I'm just a couple of months older
than you, two months older than me, um. Yeah, and

(06:20):
so uh, there may have been some coercion to get
an older sibling to take me, which they did not relish,
but there was um which didn't matter because five minutes in,
like everybody else stopped existing. To me anyway, I was
in a movie by myself. Um. Again like being six
and seeing that on the big screen and not really

(06:40):
knowing what it was was like the best mind blower.
You can't replicate that. Um. And then my favorite part
of it as a kid, and still is Grito. Here's
why Grito, because I remember so distinctly when Grito came
on screen, like we had an other alien species already.

(07:02):
We had seen Jaws at that point in the film,
and and uh and whatnot, but they weren't really interacting
with humans in a big way, like the Jaw was
kind of like make their little mama Lou and they gesture,
but they're not really conversing. And Greto was the first
character that came into a scene and he had a
scene with Han Solo and they were actually talking even

(07:24):
though he was speaking Hutias, which, by the way, nobody
ever talks about how multilingual Han Solo is, but that's
a thing um right, he just picks up everything. But
I was like so excited as a kid, I was like, yes,
this is actually what I came to this movie for
was aliens talking to humans. And then he was gone,
and I was like, well, shit, I want more. And

(07:48):
luckily there's been more, like the Clone Wars and stuff.
But um and we have you know, Casto in uh
solo and appeared in The Mandalorian briefly. But um yeah, yeah,
I love my Roadian background characters. Uh so yeah. For me,
like the Cantina in particular was really important as a

(08:09):
kid because it was like the first instance I can
think of in media where I saw a place where
everybody was a total weirdo and nobody was a total weirdo.
Like they were all marvelous and fantastic to me, but
within that scene, nobody were. The bartender did not care
whether you were a Shadra fan or you know, a Devilonian.

(08:30):
Just they're just slinging drinks. They don't care. Um, which
I like. I like the alcoholic bat creature, which is
that little Shadra fan that goes up. Her name is
Cabe or Kaba, depending different people like to pronounce it
different ways. In the in the EU. In the books,
they kind of reveal that she was an alcoholic, which weird.
Weird Star Wars trivia for you. Yeah, well, I'm glad

(08:52):
that you're here of all people too, because you know
so much like I'm a I saw it in the
theaters when I was six years old, and I saw
it five or six times, and I was there for Empire,
and I've seen them all and I love them all
so much. But I never dove in to the books
in the world to where I knew all the stories
and all the planets, and um, I was a medium diver.

(09:14):
I was never the deep diver. So that's why when
I say, why do they call it more made the
fourth And you were very sweet about that, by the way.
Not it didn't just say listen, dumb sh it. No,
I mean recognize that I have a unique level of
rabies in this That's right. It's a lot of foam
coming out of your mouth right now. But it's like

(09:35):
I look like a raccoon that you found in your
garbage in the middle of the night. Yeah. I will
say things throughout this episode that are like the Diego
Lunar character and things like that. So okay, I'm pre
apologizing to you and all the big, big Star Wars fans. No,
you shouldn't. And this is like a thing I have
a soapbox about because there is a problem that crops

(09:59):
up in Star Wars fandom where there are a lot
of people who want to like throw their weight around
as being Star warsier than thou. Yeah, not into that,
and like, I don't care if you wanted to memorize
planets like some stuff I'm really into, and you don't
have to be. Everybody who loves Star Wars is a
Star Wars fan. I don't like that weird gate keeping stuff.

(10:22):
Good because you know I was always there on opening
night and um, it's a big deal to me. But
I'm not a deep diver on movies like that. I
am for music and my recall for Emily is always
making fun of me. She's like, you can't remember the
conversation we have had yesterday, but you can name the
fucking bass player for Poison, right. Yeah. See, I wouldn't.

(10:43):
I would be a stumbling a completely lost in that world.
All right. Well, I just want to level set so
I don't get in trouble. So the cantina you're six
years old to take it from there. Yeah, So I
mean at that point, I just like was in love.
And I remember like I and my best friend and

(11:04):
her little sister and her little sister's best friend. Like,
we spent the next several years just playing Star Wars, which, um,
kind of cracks me up when you hear people say
that like Star Wars was for boys. I'm like, I
didn't have a a boy who was a friend of
mine that wanted to play Star Wars with me until
like way later. But like our little herd of girls

(11:25):
was way into it. Um. But so I loved it
as a kid, and I you know, continued to love
an empire was like yeah, I mean, aside from the
fact that it's Princess Leah's best clothes. Yeah, and you
know what empire Looking back? Um, so how old were we?
I guess nine? Was that three years later? That was

(11:48):
a lot of semi sophisticated movie making, an emotional um
filmmaking for a nine year old, I think, oh yeah
for sure. And there are certainly like aspects to it
that I did not fully appreciate until I was much older.
You know. At the time, I was like unts and space, Um,

(12:10):
and then I remember so distinctly when Jedi came out,
so we would have been twelve, and I went and
saw Jedi and I was super into it. And I
remember going to school and saying something to someone about
it and then going like, Star Wars is not cool,
and so I was like, all right, I'm not gonna
have anybody to talk about Star Wars with. The thing
that sucks is that. Like that was kind of my

(12:33):
m O all through like high school. And I did
not even realize until we were in our thirties that
one of my closest friends in high school was a
huge Star Wars nerd as was I, and we never
once talked about like we did not discover that we
had both loved it the whole time until we were
much older. That's really funny. My deal with Jedi. That's

(12:54):
the one I had the most problems with even back then,
and I think I pinpointed it years later or was
that and and still like Jedi, but I didn't. I
loved those characters as they were, and there was a
big character shift in Jedi to where all of a sudden,
Luke was a badass, and um, I liked the Luke

(13:15):
of Discovery more than I like, I'm a badass now, Luke.
That's why I liked Empire so much. I think because
the process with He and Yoda so into that and
it just felt a little too, a little too winky,
like we've been here before and not quite as pure, right,
But we can see it didn't ruin my love of

(13:37):
it or anything. But I just love those first two
so much. It wasn't like a hatred of the Walks. No,
I don't remember feeling. I mean, I guess I was.
I mean we were twelve, so I probably didn't. Wasn't
charmed as I would have been when I was six
or nine in an Ewokian way, But I don't remember
thinking like I'm too old for these little little muppets, right.

(14:01):
I love those e Walks, Um do Tebow forever man.
You don't like about Star Wars the whole universe. See,
I'm a little reluctant. And here's why not because I
want to be like a brilliant about everything. But um,

(14:22):
there is one particular thing that I dislike that comes
up in the literature a lot, and I don't want
a dog on a writer because there are other people
that love those things, but like as a blanket statement,
I will say I don't generally like romance in Star
Wars for a variety of reasons. Admittedly like romance and
media is not my jam. I don't want to rom

(14:43):
com I don't want I need some lasers, I don't um.
But yeah, so there have been some things like that
that I haven't super loved. Um. I am still coming
to terms with um spoiler alert the Rise of Skywalker
and raise lineage. Still not in love with that, but

(15:05):
other people super love it. So like my you know,
my opinion isn't any weightier than anyone else's. Like, love
what you love, but I don't super love that. All right,
I'm just noticing your rebel alliance necklace. I also have
a rebel alliance, UM ring on. I have AGREEDO ring On.
It's a problem and it has nothing to do with
recording this episode. No, absolutely not. I would be what

(15:29):
you can't tell this is so dork e epithecus, so
brace so in Galaxy's Edge, I e. Nirvana, which is
the expansion in Disney Parks. That's all Star Wars. We
go a lot, or at least we did before this pandemic.
UM one of the things you can do is build
a custom droid. They're like a probably a twelve to

(15:52):
fifteen inch tall, like remote controlled droid. And so my
beloved and I went on our anniversary into December and
we decided we would build droids that looked like our
outfits from our wedding, which is super nerdy in and
of itself. But then I took pictures of those droids
and I made them into a floral fabric print, which

(16:14):
is the jacket that I'm wearing right now, because I'm like, oh,
you dressed up for this, and You're like, what are
you talking about? These are my clothes? Check? I know
it's this or no clothes, And I promise you that's
not anything anybody wants to happen. Um, yeah, it's It's
just it's all Star Wars all the time. Uh. It's
funny to think about being there in December. That place

(16:35):
is probably swimming with the coronavirus at the time, unknowingly right,
Maybe we didn't get sick that time. Um. I mean
I often come back from Disney sick just because there's
a million people, and you know, but we went then
we actually went in March as well, kind of right
before this all started, there was an event that, um

(16:56):
I was booked to do there and I had even
like reach out to the event organizer beforehand and several
other women from uh from My Heart podcasting, We're supposed
to go, and I was like, is this still happening?
And they were like absolutely, and I'm like, all right, no,
this was a this was like a podcasting event. But
of course it was in Orlando, and of course I'm
not going to be in Orlando and not go to

(17:18):
Galaxy's Edge every night. Um So yeah, so we went
then and we were very like heightened level of care
and so was Disney already like they already had like
the standis of hand sanitizer every four feet and and
we're being a little more careful. Um So we didn't
get sick at all that time, which actually surprises me.
But uh, yeah, December. I mean I we tend to

(17:41):
go September through like maybe late March, and then we
don't usually go in the heavier summer months. You're a veteran, Yes,
what is there an actual cantina replica? There there is
a cantina. It's called Oga's Cantina. Oga as the proprietor.

(18:01):
She is a hard ass kind of criminal underworld. You
don't ever meet her while you're there, but um, she
it's a really spectacularly fun place. I have to say, Um,
did you cry when you walked in? I cried the
first time I walked into Galaxy's Edge, period because it
is so breathtakingly beautiful. Um, And I don't think I

(18:23):
cried the first time I was in Ougus. The first
time I was in the one in Anaheim, not Orlando. Um,
because I was in l A for business, so of
course I was like, doing, I'm moving over here. Um.
It's so fun. It's very I wonder how that is
gonna play out post pandemic because it is normally a
very packed place, like they literally like pack you in

(18:46):
at the bar, it's like eight percent is standing. There
are only a few tables that are like booths, and
you get seated with people you don't know. So I
have no idea how they're going to play this going
for I mean, I know they're like figuring out plans,
but I don't know what they are. It'd probably be
I mean, if you're a little brave, a pretty great

(19:06):
time to go, because I imagine they're going to be
limiting entry such that it's gonna be like, you know,
a ghost town. Well, I think you can't. Right now,
Ogus is not open, even though they are well and
right now, um California is not reopening. I think it's
hard to talk about July at some point. Right Disney

(19:27):
World is set to open currently mid July, and initially
there will not be food. I don't think any of
the food service is going to be open, So it's
a little I mean, we're still waiting it out. I'm
gonna I'm gonna hang in my house with my cats
and my husband. It's all over. I don't want to
I don't want to get sick. But back to Star Wars. Um,

(19:49):
So then as an adult, I just kind of let
my freak flag fly and stopped caring who did or
did not like Star Wars. I thought I was a
dork about it, and um, that's kind of how I
met my husband. He actually met my roommate first, but
then called our apartment one night that was before cell
phones where you had landlines, and I ended up picking

(20:09):
up the phone and she wasn't home and he I
was watching Empire and he goes is that Empire strikes
back on in the background, and we ended up talking
on the phone and that is how we met. Um.
So yeah, and here we are twenty four years later,
so that worked out. Um yeah. And it's it's been
one of those things where, you know, as I got

(20:31):
older and the Internet developed, you could find other Star
Wars fans. My best friend on Earth is someone I'm
known for like twenty two years, and I met her
on a Star Wars costuming forum. Um and yeah, and
now I um, I actually do a Star Wars podcast
every week, so I have like a whole, nice, little

(20:52):
like hour of my week where I know, no matter
how stressful or weird everything else has gotten, just sit
down and talk about you know, Pad May or an
e walk for an hour. It's now what is that?
Um it's called full of sith. I don't think I
even do that. It's a secret. It's not a secret.
Um yeah, it's been Um, it existed before I was

(21:15):
on it. My co host Brian Young and our producer
who sometimes hosts, Mike Pilot, started it years and years ago.
And this is outside of our job. It's just your funzies.
It's great, Yes, it's one of the grandfathered projects in
my contract that I'm allowed to do outside of work.

(21:40):
You know, when we it just now hit me as
we go through these films with you and other people,
that actually a new hope, uh is off the list.
That's the only movie that I've done. Because Terence william
I know I'm going to address something he said, let's
hear it later out. Well, we're talking about Rogue One
today ostensibly, even though we've been talking about everything else.

(22:02):
But there's this interesting thing, and I'm not going to
say he's wrong at all, but I just want to
make a counterpoint because he mentioned towards the end of
that episode that Rogue One kind of messes up a
new hope for him because at that point, you know
what's like just transpired in terms of Leia just getting
the data, the tantav for taking off, Vader watching it

(22:24):
take off, and then so by the time we see
Vader boarding her ship and her saying I don't know
what's trying about. You know, that all feels a little
weird to him, but to me, it makes her that
much bad, that much more badass, where she's like, I
know you just saw me take off, dude. I know
you know I'm lying, but I still don't know what
you're talking about. Boot Like she's just like, nope, she's

(22:46):
nineteen and she is standing up to this terrifying monster
of a creature like damn, Leia is a badass. Yeah,
and it's almost like in front of other people too,
so like I'm gonna stand you down in front of
other people, Like it's a bit of a power play.
It totally is. Um yeah, Like while his stormtroopers stand there,

(23:07):
she's just like, listen, schmucky, that's a really really I
mean it to me, it elevated her even more. Oh absolutely, Yeah.
I don't remember him saying that I love that you
listen to that episode. Of course you did. Of course
it did. Um. Well, let's go ahead and get into
Rogue one. Then this is a movie that I saw,

(23:28):
uh one time before last night. I only saw it once.
I only see it once every two weeks. I mean,
I love this movie. It's on in the background all
the time at my house. I do too, and I
will say this. Um, you know, ranking the films is

(23:48):
always a bit of a like wank, but um, this
is top three for me. With with Empire and New Hope.
It's it's number three. I think. Yeah, I don't rank either,
but it's a very tight race with this and an
empire for me for the ones that I just want
to go too, over and over and over. I love it.
It's um it's a bit of a caper movie. It's

(24:09):
a bit of a heist movie. It's it's a bit
of a war movie. Uh. It has elements of all
those things. Um. I got Chris Whites was actually a
guest on the show one time too, and I got
to talk to him a little bit about it. I
just think he and was it Tony Gilroy. I just
think they nailed this script and they gave and Gary
Widdow we should not leave him out. Okay, yeah, please

(24:30):
correct me along the way because there will be a
lot of a lot of that going on. But I
think they just they gave Star Wars fans something different. Uh.
That was still very much Star Wars, but it was
just outside of um, I mean, what do you call
you don't call him the trilogy, what do you call that?
The sky Walker saga? Okay, the s a guy Walker saga.

(24:52):
It was just outside enough that it felt it just
felt different and it didn't have that, it didn't feel encumbered,
it didn't have baggage. There's also some really interesting um
director I should say, like they're they're direct in verses

(25:14):
of a New Hope that go on in this movie
that I think is really wonderful. Some are just visual,
Like I love the fact that so in a New Hope,
the first time we see Vader, it's this man all
in black flanked by armored men all in white. And
the first time we see the villain in Rogue One,
it's Orson Crinic, all in his white and he is
flanked entirely by black death troopers. And it's just like

(25:36):
a flip on that that I really love. But really
that goes back to Gareth edwards whole approach to this
film initially was that it was the counterpoint to A
New Hope, in that a New Hope is this story
about this naive, idealistic farm boy who then wants to

(26:00):
become part of the bigger galactic conflict and become part
of a war. And Rogue One is about a young
woman who has grown up in the war and all
she wants is a peaceful, quiet life. Yeah, And like
it's such a beautiful counterpoint in that regard. Yeah, I
never really thought about that. I think about all this,
I know well, and you know, the the arcs for

(26:24):
both of those characters are so great because Jen, you
know when she after the death of her father, was
when that switch is really uh uh turned on. Yeah,
she goes in so hard and becomes such a leader
so quickly. Um, it's it's really one of my favorite
parts of the movie to see that transition happen. Yeah,

(26:45):
there's um for people that are not into all of
the extra stuff, there is some really interesting payoff for
people that have been keeping up with all of the
extra stuff. Um. One of the fun sort of it's
not even an Easter egg, but it's interesting. Saguer Era,
who trained Jin, was trained himself by Anakin Skywalker in

(27:07):
Guerrilla Warfare, and this is from Clone Wars is from
the animated series. So in the animated series, Saw and
his sister are part of this resistance to occupation of
the Empire on their planet of Onduran, and the Jedi
can't technically get involved, but Anakin trains him, trains their

(27:29):
little their group, and so it's kind of interesting then
that there's this reversal where Anakin, of course goes on
to not be such a great dude as Darth Vader.
And and yet the seeds that he planted are are
still undoing the other work that he's a part of,
which is kind of interesting. Um. And then Saw in
turn trained Jin as a kid, right and he UM.

(27:52):
I mean, I guess when you dive into the books
and clone wars and stuff like that, you get a
much more richer um experience seeing something like when Saw
first comes on screen, I say, oh my god, Forest Whittaker,
how fucking much do I love Forest Whittaker? And all
of you folks are going, oh my god, it Saw
it Saw. Well, what we're actually saying is whoa life

(28:14):
has really taken a bat to saga era because when
we saw him, he was this very young, strapping, like
super handsome, um, you know, young man right on the
precipice of his life. And um, he, in the course
of that this is a little bit of a spoiler,
goes through a great trauma which leads him really to

(28:36):
go in hardcore as a resistance fighter. Um. So you
know what happened to him that made him uh, you know, mechanical.
We don't really we just presume that, like he was
just fighting throughout some of it comes up. There is
a um a book and I am blanking out on
the name of it. It's like a young adult book

(28:58):
about Jin's time with Auguerrera called Resistance Rising um and
they talk a little bit about some of that, but
it doesn't go super deep into it. UM. Well, what
I was what I was talking about though, is just
the encumbered feeling like they they you know, they didn't
use the opening crawl and they don't use the wipes

(29:20):
and things like that, And I think that was just
really smart to just get the smallest bit of distance
so where you're not it's not heresy or anything like that,
but just enough distance to be like, you know, what
these stories are in the world, but they're off to
the side a little bit, which I think it just
freed them up. I feel like, yeah, And it's interesting.

(29:43):
It's the first Star Wars movie that was not scored
by John Williams. Oh interesting. Um, it was scored by
Michael Giaquino in like a four week period because I
think originally Andre this plot was supposed to score it.
He had to step away to work on something else
and Giaquino, who is in a maz using composer anyway,
you know, was like I've had this in my head

(30:04):
since I was sixteen, Like I'm ready to, you know.
So he banged it out lickety split. It's interesting because
I remember thinking how weird will Star Wars feel without
John Williams music, But in many ways, like this score
has become as much of what Star Wars sounds like
to me is anything. It's so beautiful. Oh that's cool. Yeah,
I thought the score was great. Um. I thought the

(30:25):
geography too, was just so exciting and new. Uh, just
from that opening shot flying over the oceans and things,
things that we haven't seen before. Uh, and then the
end battle on that that tropical planet. Yeah, it was
so cool to see these characters at this you know,

(30:47):
resort looking location. It was just so fucking awesome. It's
funny that you mentioned how it looks like a resort because, um, similarly,
I have just, through happenstance in life, lucked out Star
Wars timing and that if the films come out in May,
they're always near my birthday, and if they come out
in December, they're always near my anniversary. So Rogue one

(31:09):
came out on my twentieth anniversary, and Brian and I
were in Hawaii at the time, so we went as
we do on opening nights, we go twice in a row,
like we'll go to the six thirties showing and then
like you know, do a half hour break to pee
and get snacks, and then we go right into like
a ten o'clock or whatever. And so what was great though,
is that at the end of the second time of
Rogue one, we walk out into essentially what looks like

(31:31):
scar of and it was just like, this is the
best night of my life. That's amazing. That is so
cool and cool, and it's it's weird too because that
we hadn't seen that kind of world before. And it
I think if someone had told me about that before,
I would say, Oh, I don't know if that will
mesh with this world, but it does. It just looks great. Oh,

(31:56):
it's beautiful. It's so spectacular. It's it's an interesting thing.
A lot of Star Wars people really like to debate about. Um.
I don't know how much you remember of the initial
teaser trailers that we saw for Rogue one a little bit,
but they had a lot of footage that we didn't
see in the final film, right, Like there is footage
of of Orsan Crinic walking through the water with his

(32:18):
cape dragging in the water and it looks very ominous
and beautiful. And there was some footage of the rebels
kind of running along the beach carrying the the Death
Star plans, which shifted out like it went through some
shifts late in the game. And my understanding is Geared
Words filmed a lot of stuff that never made it
to screen because he just likes to film an experiment

(32:40):
and keep things rolling as he goes, and then it
it got reshaped a lot along the way. But I
would just like to see all that footage of Scariff
and everybody running around in the water because it looks
so beautiful. Surely they'll put that out at some point, right,
I don't know, I really don't know. Um do they
do that? They do they They have included some Um
I'm trying to remember what all the the deleted scenes

(33:02):
were when they did the home video release initially, but
we really didn't get all of that stuff. Unfortunately. I'm
ready for it too. UM. I also love how just
the this movie has such an energy to it that, Uh,
the opening fifteen minutes, the plot is just coming at
you so fast and furious, and you go to all
these different locations and they're just banging out these locations

(33:23):
right in a row. And just the setting, the table
setting in this movie was just so energetic and fun.
I think it is. And it's interesting, right you mentioned
that it sits sort of outside the bounds in a
way that that you can come into it without too
much baggage. And what's interesting is, right, you know essentially
that the odds are that by the end of this

(33:44):
movie all these people are gone because we never see
them again, right, And so it is this weird little
encapsulation where you're just like, Okay, I'm gonna take the
risk that I fall in love with everything about these
characters in this story and know that at the end,
I don't get to keep seeing this world or these people. Yeah,
I don't think I knew that going in. And uh,

(34:06):
I mean I watch half of the movie last night
and then was so sleepy. I was like, I gotta
finish this in the morning to do right by it.
And I was fucking on my couch this morning at
seven thirty crying. I believe it like a little little
baby boy. Um. That ending is some of the most beautiful,

(34:28):
poignant cinema. Uh. That shot of Gin and Cassian embracing
on the beach while their death comes. And meanwhile, like
that spectacular stringed orchestra in the background that you can hear,
and there's that one. It's like two frames of shot
where Cassian's i in goes into like sharp contrast as

(34:50):
the light from the explosion comes in and it's just
like an intense visual moment. It's so beautiful. Yeah, I
had forgotten, Holly, uh, because you know, I only saw
it the one time, and as this was going on,
I was like, oh, ship, that's right, Like everyone fucking dies,
which is not a Star Wars ee thing to do.

(35:13):
And I think I remember it took me back to
being in the theater and thinking, like, man, that was
ballsy to do that to these characters that you've just
fallen in love with. It is right. I mean, it's
one of those things where it's Star Wars, so there's
always the possibility that you will see them in some
other iteration. There's certainly been books and they're animated things,
and the time jump where they'll be like, no, we're

(35:34):
gonna tell the story of this twenty years prior. And
but even so, like, I mean, who wouldn't have wanted
to see Jin become a leader within the resistance after
this because she's she comes in like a snarling, slightly
feral animal and then gets so focused in particularly after

(35:56):
she watches that heartbreaking recording of her father and realizing
that he gave up his life for the resistance. Essentially,
like for her to have gotten that center and then
carry on would have been amazing, But we don't get
to find that out. Yeah, I mean, that's that takes
a lot of courage I think as a filmmaker to
sort of lay it all and say, you know, this
is the one movie and um, we're we're going to

(36:20):
give you a clean uh clean steaks. Like the setup
is so clean and uh like right there, like the
sixteen minute mark, all the steaks are laid out there
for you, uh and throughout the movie it was like
it was just easy to follow. There was because if
there wasn't any baggage, it was just a very simple,

(36:40):
clean setup. And I think it benefited because of that. Yeah,
I should mention as we talked about losing all these characters.
We didn't really because we're getting a Cassie and or
television series. Oh really yeah yeah yeah on Disney Plus Um.
Tony Gilroy is actually I think the show runner on it.
I know he's basically heading up writing um and will
be like Cassian before we see him in Rogue one.

(37:03):
So yeah, oh boom, yeah, totally. I'm in. I'm in,
I'm in, I'm in. Um. He was so great in
this he fits so well in this world. Oh yeah. Uh.
You know who I really really love in this movie
is Wen Jang. Oh God, like cheer It and Baize

(37:27):
both are fantastic, but I don't know why I love
base Melbous like I love him. Um. I think when
Jang has it's interesting because I'm there were criticisms when
the movie came out of people going, oh, you can
tell he doesn't really speak English very well and blah
blah blah um. And he accidentally gave something away in press,

(37:48):
which in the press junkets leading up, which is the thing,
and partially because of that, and but the thing is
like you could just do a still shot on that
man's eyes and you get all the information. Yeah, he's
so good in this yeah he is. And uh boy,
those two what was his buddy's name, cheer it name way? Yeah,

(38:11):
I mean I'm so mad in a way that this
is all we get of them, because there are two
of the great Star Wars characters. They're one of the
great duos in this universe. They really are. And there's
been some, um, some additional stuff with them in the books.
There's a a middle grade book about them trying to

(38:32):
like rescue the kids of Jetta before all of this happens.
It's really really wonderful. But yeah, I could watch the
two of them for literally day, Like you could just
make that a channel that runs twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week, and I would watch it, Yeah,
because I want to know their backstory because they have
a very sweet relationship. Um there's that one great line
where he's like, I've got you. What does he say,

(38:55):
I'm not in trouble or whatever? There's what does he say,
I'm sure you know? Um I'm trying to remember because
it's when they're on Eedo and Yourself the the thing
and he says he says something like I'm not going alone.
I have you like base of course, damn it, let
me get my gun. Well, let's talk about that gun

(39:15):
for a minute, Like, uh, just when you like, they
managed to keep introducing new weaponry that is just so cool.
And I think that's the first automatic weapon we've seen
in this series. It's just so badass. There's a lot
of badass in this movie that we hadn't seen before,
Like the Death Troopers. Yeah, was that the first time
for them? Was the first time for them? Um? You know,

(39:38):
it's interesting because they are there are subtle things about
their design that may not be obvious to people that
aren't big Star Wars people, but you're still feeling the
impact of it. Like they're much taller than normal stormtroopers
and so, and their armor is cut a little more angularly,
so they look like more like a weapon, Like they

(39:58):
look sharper. Yeah, they totally do interesting. And then they
show up again in um The Mandalorian. Um. Uh, the
bad guy that appears towards the end of that series
shows up with Death Troopers. Oh yeah, that's right. Uh.
And I'm always happy for more Death Troopers because it
just looks spectacularly cool. I love The Mandalorian. I thought

(40:21):
it was so good about that if you want, happily, no,
we we can actually do an episode in the Mandalorian
that'd be fun. Um, was this the first time that
we had seen ships coming in from hyper space? I
don't think so, because I I don't remember seeing it

(40:43):
in the others, but I remember this that being a
new thing in these new movies, and it's just one
of those little small things that I was like, oh, wow,
we've never we've always seen the launch in the hyper space,
We've never seen him come in that that quick stop,
and I was like, it's such a very bag sick
little thing, but it was so awesome. Well, and there's
also that moment where the rebel ships are trying to

(41:07):
jump to hyperspace and as they're going, the Imperial fleet
comes in and one of the rebels just slams into
that that star destroyer, and it's like, oh, you don't
think about those possibilities about that. Yeah. Um, here's an
interesting thing I wanted to mention. It's again, this is

(41:29):
a nerdy deep dive moment, but it goes back to
my beloved Cantina. So there's a moment when we're on
Jetta and they are walking through the crowd and they
bump into Ponda Baba and Dr Amazon from the cantina
in a New Hope right right, um, And Ponda Baba

(41:51):
is the one that lost his arm to uh obiwan
I don't like you. And Dr Emazon is apparently like
a um uh just a messed up, unscrupulous doctor literally
who does all kinds of weird stuff. But what's interesting
is that this is another thing that then colors the
way other films are perceived, because when you realize they

(42:13):
have gotten to tattooing and they just want a damn
quiet cocktail because they have barely escaped the explosion of Jetta,
and then some Pip Squeak and his Jedi friend come
in and just screw up their entire day. I didn't
even think about that with the I mean, it definitely
makes you think about I mean, how you should really
watch this is watch this and then watch New Hope

(42:34):
right afterwards. Yes, I highly recommend it. Um. It is
really interesting from that perspective. There are a few things
like that. The thing that um I was going to
point out that would not be obvious unless you're a
super dork is Mon Mathma, which is that the actress
that plays Mon Mathma. Geneviva Riley already played Mon Mathma

(42:56):
in filming for Revenge of the Sith, but her it
was cut, but they brought that same actress back to
do this. Now, was this, um the first time we've
seen Mon Mothman and movie? No? Right, No, she's in
um in um Jedi okay, And and she looks like
the actress that played her then right, yes, okay, because

(43:17):
I remember when I saw her in this, I was like,
wait a minute, I think I've seen her before. Yes,
she's the one that does the mini bosons died to
bring us this information. When they're talking about the second
death Star. Um, yes, God, I'm glad you're here. Um,
let's talk for a minute about about the droid star

(43:38):
in this um K two s O. Yeah, Like how
brave is it to also be like, all right, we're
gonna introduce another droid that also calculates probabilities and statistics
and they're going to be kind of funny and uh
but they're not three p O. So fingers crossed that

(43:59):
this work, which and it totally does well. I mean,
you start out of the gate in a pretty safe
space when you cast alent Tu Dick in that part. Yeah,
of course there is a great moment um when because
Alan Tuttick was on set in like the rig doing
the stuff he wasn't just doing um like looping the

(44:21):
audio later and there is a very very funny moment
when they get cornered on Jetta by SAWS people and
the or by the stormtroopers before Saws people, and they're
telling like K two is trying to pass as a
legit imperial droid and not we programmed, and he slaps

(44:44):
Cassie in and says and there's a fresh one if
you mouth off again. That was ad libbed. And if
you watch closely you can tell that Diego Luna is
losing his ship behind his hands, like he is falling
apart laughing because who wouldn't. Um, Yeah, he real it

(45:07):
really works. And again I think it's it's fairly courageous
to be to throw another droid in there with a
lot of the same function as three p O. But
he's he's a beloved character in this well. And the
great thing too, the big differentiator, right is c three
PO is like a nervous Nellie and K two is
just like he gives no damns, He does not care.

(45:29):
He knows who he is, and he doesn't really care
to coddle anybody. He's more like, you're stupid, whereas C
three po was like, oh, why won't you listen to me?
Like that's the difference, right, is listen idiot? I know? Yeah,
I love him, and I was sad that he's I mean,
I'm going to show up again. His death is painful

(45:54):
when he's yelling climb as he's like, oh it's so good.
So would. There's so many great um sacrifice, self sacrifice
moments in this movie, the whole thing, yeah, right after
the other. Yeah, um yeah, it's a um it's a
little bit startling. That to me was the thing where

(46:17):
I was like, again knowing we probably weren't going to
see these characters and make it through, and I was like,
how do you play a movie where all the characters
die and possibly all through sacrifice and not have it
start to feel just like reiterative? And in fact now
it didn't. No, No, it really didn't, because I think

(46:39):
each person has their own moment that felt real. I
think that's the thing. It felt really earned and really real. Yes, yeah,
I also love that Crenic dies in the most petty
move on Tarkin's part. Did you notice that that laser
goes right through the tower or critic is yeah, well

(47:07):
let's talk about Tarkan. Uh. I was about to call
the elephant in the room, but it's um, let me
level set where I stand with this, which is, uh
cool idea and I'm glad they did it, but I
wish they would have pulled back a little bit. I
thought the most effective moments were when it was a

(47:29):
little more in shadow, the reflection when you first see him,
and I think they could have pulled back a little
bit more and made it feel a little more real
than when it was finally like here I am in
full light, right in front of you looking c G. I.
So here's an interesting thing. Um. This is one of
those things where I think their idea was so big,

(47:52):
and in fact their skill is so big that it
doesn't work everywhere, because I of course saw this in
every format, and like we saw it. I think we
saw in three D the first time we saw it,
and we saw it in regular two D the second time,
and then we saw it like I got a special
five D screening because I'm holly no no, no, no,

(48:13):
no no, But do you know what I did? And
they don't do it anymore. Regal did this promotion for
Rogue one where you could buy a medal engraved ticket
ahead of time for like a hundred dollars and you
could go see Rogue one every day at a Regal
cinema in any format for as long as it ran.
And let me tell you, I'm pretty sure I'm the

(48:34):
reason they don't do it anymore. I was there every
single day training the kids on how to use them
in the system, like every day. But what was cool
is that that also, like you could go to an
Imax movie and use that same thing, So like it
seemed like a big outlet initially, but like you go
to Imax a couple of times at like a three

(48:56):
D a couple of times, and you've paid for yourself. Um,
in Imax, Tarkan looks incredible, and so it's like they
optimized for like the most high end format, but that
damaged how it plays in other formats, at least in ours.
I had compared notes with some other people because that
also saw it in multiple different formats, and like they

(49:18):
had some some different takes on which one looked best
in my case, and some of that like comes down
to literally the theater you're sitting in and how they
manage their equipment and stuff like that. So I I
feel like they optimized it for best possible UM projection.
But that meant that, like if you saw it in
two D, he does look Uncanny Valley. Yeah. And you know,

(49:43):
here's my thing is, I don't I'm a Star Wars fan.
I don't Uh, I don't lose sleep over this stuff,
so I don't go in there wanting to pick it apart. Uh.
It took me out of the movie a little bit,
but I was also like, you know, I rolled with it.
It was cool to see Tarkan again and I know
that's why they did it, and it worked for the story.

(50:04):
So uh. In the same with Lay at the end,
it was you know, what are you gonna do? You're
you're either gonna sort of throw your uh cards on
the table and do that or you're not. And they
did and it was fine. Yeah. I mean it's interesting,
right lucasfilm has always always been at the forefront of

(50:27):
UM technology and figuring out what comes next. I mean
I was watching I don't know if you've been watching
UM Disney Gallery on Disney Plus, which has been a
whole season of behind the scenes of the Mandalorian. But
I think Kathy Kennedy at one point names the number
of patents that Lucasfilm owns, and it's like ridiculous, It's
like a hundred and sixty or something, pulling that out

(50:48):
of my tail. So I could be way off, but
it's because I mean, even from day one, they were
changing the way things happened, and like even an Empire,
Phil Tippett was changing the waystop motion was with go motion,
and like then when you get to the Prequels, like
all of that was advancing filmmaking in a whole new way,

(51:08):
and in some ways it doesn't always work to the
human eye, but like if it weren't for that, we
wouldn't have a cajillion other movies we've had since then.
So that's part of the tempering element for me there
where I'm like, because I actually had a harder time
with Leia than I did with Tarkan. But again I
admit that there's like an emotional component there that I

(51:30):
can't get over that barrier, like it's my own thing. Um.
But even so, like when I think about what films
are going to come later as a consequence. I'm like, well,
that's fine. They're they're trying stuff. They're not resting on
their laurels. Yeah, if you're gonna, um, you're gonna get
really upset about someone making a bold decision and trying

(51:52):
to sort of punch above their weight grade. I mean
that's how That's how I'd want to go down as
a filmmaker, not by praying safe. Well, what's really interesting
is that this whole idea for the movie was originally
pitched by the head of I l M. John Knowle. Oh,
I was going to ask you about that and how
this this, I mean great idea of like wait a minute,

(52:13):
let's go right before New Hope and let's cover the
story of the Death Star and explain this weakness and
why it was there to begin with. Brilliant, brilliant idea.
John Noll, He is brilliant, Um John Noel, who he
and his brother also invented photoshops. So I mean, this
is a man who has changed our lives in many ways. Um.

(52:35):
I think his brother heads up more of that now,
Like if you load photoshop, you see Thomas Noell was
the first name on it and it's his brother. Um. Now,
when you say it was his idea, how did that
all come about? I'm remembering this without notes or review,
but I believe I saw him in an interview say that.
At one point he literally just ducked his head into
Kathy Kennedy's office and said, I have an idea I

(52:58):
want to throw at you. And that's how it started. Um.
And it is such a gem of an idea. Yes,
it's so great because it was the thing he always
wanted to know, right, like, why does the Death Star
have this really stupid messed up engineering problem? Well that
was a complaint I think for many years. Right Yeah,
people were like, that's nobody would put that much money

(53:20):
and effort behind a project. They have a stupid way
to destroy it. But in fact, that was the trap.
I love it. I mean, and oh did you say
it's a trap? I did very carefully. Um. Yeah, I
think that it was a way to kind of shut
people up about that, but in a in a in
a way that makes for a great story. I mean,

(53:41):
it made perfect sense. You know Galen or So we
haven't even talked about him. Yeah, boy, he's a he's
a handsome man. He is. Well. So there is another
book and I'm sorry I keep referring to books um
called Catalyst, which was written by James Lessino, and it
came out right before Rogue one, and it is the
backstory of the relationship between Galen or So and Orson

(54:04):
Crenic because they actually knew each other back in school.
And then there was another incident with Galen's family where
they got trapped on a planet in unfortunate circumstances and
and Crenic was the one that saved them as kind
of part of his mock nations of like this genius
will be indebted to me and I can put him
on my project, and um, all of that is super

(54:27):
fun to me, Like I Crennic is my favorite villain
maybe of all time. That great moment where they're on Lamu,
which is that first planet we see, uh, and everything
is just falling apart, and he literally says they have
a child. Find It tells you everything you need to know,

(54:49):
especially when you later see a flashback of him in
their home with the kid and we're like, oh, he's
cold mocker damn yeah, and he's he's such a bad
I mean, Ben Mendelsohn is just great. He's such a
good bad guy and because especially in this film, he's menacing,
but he's also petty. Oh you see as Hubris, Yeah

(55:11):
that you know you're gonna mention me to the Emperor,
right like that ends up being is undoing of course,
uh to a certain degree. But uh, he's just great
in this movie. He just choose it up spectacular My favorite.
I mean, you know above Invader, above mall Abo, above
any of the villains. Oh yeah, easily easily because it

(55:34):
is um there's a more complexity to it, right, Like
he's not even though he does kind of go super villain.
You see that it's this man who has all of
this ambition and is clearly very smart and has a
lot of power. But like the moment where I'm like,
damn is when they're on Mustafar and he's gone to

(55:57):
see Vader. Invader has just choked him, and the poll
the way shot is him smiling just a little because
any damn attention from the boss is a dopamine hit.
Like it's almost he's like, boy, I just got choked
out by Vader. Wow. Not story As another nerdy sidebar
of other content, you can consume if you want to

(56:19):
see that same point of view from that scene where
you're kind of way up in the tower on moustafar Um.
For anybody that has an Oculus uh, and you're into VR,
the Vader Immortal series has a section where you're up
on that platform and it's quite beautiful and cool. Well,
I know's what some of those words meant. I love

(56:42):
Vader Immortal. Now what is that? Is it a it's
a VR game? Um that I m m X lab
did Uh they put it out. It's one of those
things that it's interesting because the Oculus headset, right, which
is a VR headset, there's a barrier to entry there.
They are not cheap like I think. Um, the the
one we got a couple of years ago, I want

(57:04):
to say it was like five, which is not cheap.
There are a couple of cheaper ones than that. But
then like the games are like ten bucks, they're cheap
as dirt. So um, and they are completely immersive VR,
which has been very very fun. Um. There is another
if people want more Cassian and K two in particular,
if you go to the void, which is like a UM,

(57:29):
it feels wrong to call it a retail establishment. But
it's like a place you can go and have a
VR experience. Uh. They do a Star Wars one that
has Cassian and K two in it. All right, everyone
go check it out. I will keep you posted on
all the places you can consume all the things. Uh,

(57:49):
trust me. There's a lot of people are that are
listening right now. They're like, oh my god, I'm so
glad you mentioned that. Um. That first Death Star weapons
test is really cool. It's sort of recalled the the
very first one from a New Hope. Um, but this
one just the filmmaking was so much more advanced. So
it's one of the more beautiful shots in the movie.

(58:09):
It's so spectacularly beautiful. Like when the critics says, oh,
it's beautiful, you kind of have to grudgingly agree, even
though he's commenting on the beauty of destroying a bunch
of people. Yeah, that one shot where the explosion is
almost reaching up towards uh that far into space or whatever,
it was just gorgeous. Yes, I will ask you a question,

(58:31):
did you have that thing? I know some people got
really weirded out about the Death Star being inverted so
that the laser array was down you know the dish
and it's like it's space. You guys, like, there is
no upper death. I didn't notice was it's usually up
I guess, yeah, yeah, and that most of the time
when you see it, you'll see it with the dish

(58:52):
on the top hemisphere. But then when we see it
over Jetta, it's inverted and the dishes on the what
looks like the bottom hemisphere and at positioning well, and
so the idea is that this is a ship and
it can turn upside down, and it's every space. There's
no upper down yea, every Yeah, everyone's change isn't falling
out of their pockets. And uh, we get some good

(59:14):
Vader in this movie too. He's not in it a lot,
but um that that last scene is, uh that might
be almost Max Vader as far as bad. That is
the most vicious Vader we've seen. Yeah, right, because we
see it right, So in um episode three we know
that he killed kids, right, there's a whole thing of

(59:36):
him killing the younglings, but we don't see it. But
in this it's just like fling a guy up against
the ceiling, cut him in half as you walk by,
like vicious Vader. So if you remember when he first
enters the Tanta V four in a New Hope, Like,
all those guys are lining up and they're positioning themselves

(59:57):
to defend the princess and the ship, and now we
know that they have just witnessed the wholesale slaughter of
a bunch of their comrades of this person's hand, like
they basically know, like, I'm gonna go get in position
to die now. I mean, yeah, it really gives that.
It's so much more texture. I think, Um, I'm totally
I don't know why I never thought to watch these
two back to back. That's such a no brainer. Well,

(01:00:21):
now you can do it this afternoon. I'll feel like
you'll be Like Holly said, he trained this guy. And
I loved the reveal of how they got the title

(01:00:42):
of this film. I thought that was so fun and
so cool. Do you know a lot of people hate
that moment. I loved it. I think it's sweet, sweet sweet,
And we have not talked about how great Risom it
is in this movie. Yeah, he's awesome. This whole cast
is like a plus across the board. There are no
weak links in this film. But um, yeah, a lot
of people don't like the kind of like cheesy, borderline

(01:01:04):
vaudevillian response of rogue one. There is no rogue one,
but I love it. Hey, I was along for the ride.
I thought it was cool because I went in knowing
or not knowing obviously why it was called rogue one,
And I think I kind of forgot while I was
watching it, like, wait a minute, why is this even
called that? And uh, yeah, I thought it was kind
of fun and and it sort of recalled a little

(01:01:26):
bit to me. Um the way he was on the mic,
just sort of saying rogue rogue one, it reminded me
of Han Solo. Oh yeah, when he was answering the
Stormtroopers or whatever. Yeah, and then we get to see
a nice little easter egg in that we got to
see Dutch Vander and Garvin Dryce. All right, now, who's that? Uh?

(01:01:49):
Dutch Vander was Yellow leader or gold leader rather in
a New Hope and Dryce is Red leader. That footage
is stuff that they found on reels at Lucasfilm. Um.
Like Garrett Edwards had said, you know, he one of
the his I think it was one of his first
visits where he was like just poking around in the

(01:02:11):
archives and saw these reels and was like, what's that
and the archivist was like, oh, those are some of
the unused films from a New Hope, and he was
like can we watch them? Um? And they ended up
using some of that footage to drop them right into
Rogue one, and we see why Luke gets to be
read five because we see that Red five just got killed. Yeah.

(01:02:31):
I knew there were so many things like that that
I didn't pick up on that. We're just like, I'm
sure this movie was littered with stuff like that. Yeah.
There is a character in Rogue one where they're kind
of like warning him he is U an Asian pilot,
and he's saying like I'm I'm you know, I don't
remember his exact words, but he's basically in distress. Things
are going poorly for him, and then we see him

(01:02:52):
get shot down right after. It's like, oh, that's why
there was a number available for young Luke Skywalker to
step into. You. I see, that's so though, And you know, me,
without my deep knowledge, I was just like, oh my god,
Artie Dieto and three Po there they are. That was
fun too. Yeah, I mean it's really like for me
that this is silly, but like seeing Dutch Vanders where

(01:03:17):
I started really crying in this movie, even though there
was a lot going on, it was just a weird Again. Also,
I'm in Hawaii and it's like my anniversary and it's
like a magical time anyway, so I've right on the
edge of crying at every moment um. But yeah, it
was just I don't know, it felt like the nicest
like hug from the past, but not overwrought way. Yeah,

(01:03:38):
what are we supposed to think happened to Archie D
two and three po right after this? They had to
have gotten right onto um ratis is ship right and
then been transferred over or they were on the Tanta
V four inside Radiss's ship and then you know, when

(01:03:59):
it dropped out, they were off with it all right.
We haven't talked about Ratis either, because I love him. Yeah,
let me which one's ratis the bluish gray Mont Calamari, right,
who is on the big the big ship which is
called the Profundity. Yeah, he's based on Winston Churchill. Really, Yeah,

(01:04:25):
that makes sense sort of. Yeah, it's a you know,
some of that is a visual. He's got a lot
of chin and but he's also just kind of like
a stalwart leader who probably doesn't always make the right decision.
But ah, we have not also talked about the problems

(01:04:46):
of the rebellion and how it runs. Yeah, So, I
mean one of the cool parts of this movie, I
think is when, uh was when you get that switch
from the Alliance saying like, no, we're not gonna do this,
so they have to go rogue to then that moment
where they mount up and charge in full, that was
a nice little change. But what was what was going

(01:05:08):
on there before? Well, I just think it's it's interesting,
uh in that it's one of those instances where you
see that any kind of organization, whether it's in leadership
or not, where they really try to govern by everyone
having a voice and a fair choice. Like it's inherently messy,

(01:05:33):
which I think is an important thing to remember, particularly
in our modern times. Right, Like we complain all the
time about you know how leadership in in government is
often messy. But the way that it's not messy is
when evil people just get to call the shots. And
like that's an important thing and it sucks sometimes you
don't always like the outcome, but then I do like

(01:05:55):
that Rattis was just like I'm picking my ship anyway,
you guys am out. Um that wonderful exchange with um. Uh.
The character's name is antok Americ. The general in the
blue the ben fields is that the actor's name um.
Where he and and the communications officer are having the

(01:06:18):
conversation and he's like, no, they already left, You're gone. Well,
and that just sets up that whole Uh final sequence
is just so thrilling and so action packed, and it
does one of my favorite things in any any movie
is uh, when you've got like five different things going

(01:06:40):
on that are all inter cut and inter related and
just the dance. Uh. The editing in this movie is
so great, knowing how long to spend and each little
piece of that puzzle to keep that story moving in
such an energetic way. It's just great. Yeah, especially because
there's a lot of gear shifts in terms of energy
east right, Like the stuff with Gin and Cassian in

(01:07:04):
the tower is often very quiet, intense, whereas then there's
all this frenetic stuff going on on the beach and
in the air, and then we cut to poor body
that just seems like he is fighting a losing battle
at every turn, and it's sort of like stressful in
a different way where you're like, oh, damn kid, I
wish I could help you. It's all of that interposed

(01:07:24):
inter all of that move together. You're right, it's a
it's like the best conducted orchestra you could imagine, totally.
And I think there was something so kind of funny
and relatable about um sort of the big plot point
hinging on I need to get a cell signal so
I can send this text. Like that's kind of what

(01:07:46):
it came down to. But it was, as it turns out,
super relatable to in a modern audience because we've all
sort of been there, and it was kind of it
was kind of funny in a way. It's like, oh,
that that is the big suspense in this movie, is
they got to get a can signal? This in this
dext Yeah yeah, it's uh oh man Jin just like

(01:08:09):
basically being like falling apart and she's hucking it down
the that that trail way or that that gangway to
get to the one thing, and then that computer with
the very lulling voice going like telling her she's everything.
It's not okay, Yeah, it's uh, we've all been in
those situations technology wise, so I think. I mean then

(01:08:31):
I'm not kidding. I think that really did make it
more relatable. Oh yeah, it's it's interesting. Um. That is
another one of the things that I have heard people
complain about, like that it didn't make sense, like they
couldn't quite parse out what was happening there and like
the whole idea of this data transfer thing. Um. And

(01:08:51):
of course, I there's a very I don't know, dark
part of my brain that's like, can you imagine if
radis Is ship had not gotten that signal and they
all just died for nothing? I know. I mean that's
the other way it could have gone. Yes, And that
moment for the mon cows, Yeah, that moment when they
and again it's sort of low fi in a in

(01:09:12):
a very cool way, when they they have to bust
a hole in that shield so you can get that
signal out and they just fucking push that destroyer into
the other line. It's so like kind of brutally low fi. Yeah,
the whole hammer Head Corvette thing is Yeah, that's exactly
what it was. Uh. Yeah, I think that is a

(01:09:38):
point in that movie that, um, I think what has
been officially said might be different than what comes up
in the novelization of the movie, because I think in
the novelization the people aboard the hammer Head Corvette did
not make it, but I think in official documentation they
have just an interesting nerdy point. Yeah yeah, well, I

(01:10:01):
mean it would have just been another sacrifice of this
film though. Huh. Yeah. There's a great passage in the
book though, where Rattus is kind of talking about it
in his head, like his inner monologue is at this
like meta level where because he is an aquatic creature
where they have broods of just thousands of eggs, they
don't look at death the same way that humans do.

(01:10:23):
And like it's this really beautiful kind of meditation on
life and death and how different people perceive it based
on their own experience and and their own um um
perspective on where they are in the bigger picture. And
I wish everyone could have that in the movie because

(01:10:43):
it's so good. Yeah, totally. Um, you know, this action
is playing out at the end, it's it's one of
the maybe my favorite battle sequences and aerial battle sequences
in in the franchise was so so well, yeah, it's interesting. Um.
The you Wins, which were a new ship for this movie,
I remember before we saw it, my husband was like,

(01:11:07):
I don't know how I feel about you wings before
he came out of that theater, like you wings forever
I'm looking at the you wing. Oh yeah, yeah, those
are so cool. Yeah, Like they have that weird shifting
rotating wing structure. Yeah, that just it's interesting. I keep
saying it's interesting, which it is all to me, but it, um,
it harkens back a little bit to some of the

(01:11:28):
Dug Chang designs on the prequels. There were a lot
of ships that had a similar shape. When it's got
its wings in the forward position, at least to my eye,
it looks very similar to a lot of his stuff. Well,
it's tough when you're designing these ships in later movies,
because they nailed it so out of the gate with
the X Wing, the like the coolest ship ever, and

(01:11:49):
the tie Fighter even um, it's tough. Like it doesn't
get any cooler than to see a five hundred tie
Fighters pouring out of a hangar bay, right or those
X wings flying in there. When those wings separate, it's
just like, oh, it's just so great. It is really neat.
Did you notice that they change the design of the
X Wing for the sequel trilogy a bit know what

(01:12:11):
they do? They now the engine splits along the wing line,
whereas the engine used to stay intact and the wings
would split to the engines kind of front to back.
So yeah, it splits a little bit more. I love
these details ally. So let's talk about that final sequence.
I know we talked a little bit about it at
the beginning. Um, you just know, because you know how

(01:12:34):
drama works that uh how do you pronounce Donnien's character
cheer it in way? Yeah, like you know, he's going
to be the guy Like that's that's just how movies work.
It's gonna be that guy and he's and he's gonna
do it in that way where he is one with

(01:12:55):
the force and he's repeating that mantra and he's walking
just like the Buddhist monk, and it's just so powerful.
Like I'm getting chills even thinking about it right now.
Uh yeah, it's it's a cool thing. There's a detail
of design that I really love that comes up in um,
his clothing as well as some other clothing in the movie,

(01:13:18):
which is that, Uh, characters that believe in the Force
have read somewhere on their costume. Like if you notice
Jin's mother Lira, when she gets killed by Crinic, she's
wearing like a red sash and a like a red
sort of underskirt um. There's a thing in the visual

(01:13:41):
Dictionary that mentions it's the the sash of the enlightened
or whatever. Like, they're not people that are forced users,
but they kind of believe in it in a sort
of religious way, and so cheer It also has it.
Bays has it, but his is all dirty and like
in those weird little knots and stuff. But what's interesting
is that when you know that at and then you
look at the film, you start to notice that only

(01:14:03):
on the interior of her jacket, Gin has a red lining,
and it's just like you don't see it very often.
It's just like flashes occasionally, and it's like, oh, man,
Like when you think about the fact that this is
a kid who has warned that one little like kiber
crystal around her neck her entire life, but grows up

(01:14:24):
in this scrappy way where she claims she doesn't believe
in anything, but she still has that little tucked in. Yeah, well,
she says, the forces with us, you know, once she
makes that turn. Yeah. Um, but boy when he goes
out in and hits that master switch and he and
he in Bays is just like when Bayze yells his name.

(01:14:47):
Can't I can't. I'm not emotionally tall enough to ride
that ride. Like the second the second of Bays bellows
cher its name, I'm just like, yeah, oh god, it's brutal.
I mean, I'm in my basement tearing up. You're on
your closet. Well, I always cry on my closet a
little bit, clothes. It's just such a I mean, this

(01:15:11):
this movie packs more of an emotional wallop than any
Star Wars film, for sure. I think, Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I'm sure there are people all that probably
gravitate emotionally to other ones. This one for me is it. Um.
You know, I will say some of that is a
personal proclivity, and that like the Jedi have never been

(01:15:33):
the thing I loved about Star Wars, but for a
lot of people they are, and so like that story
and watching you know, Anakins fall from that that group,
and ultimately watching the Jedi really like shoot themselves in
the foot in many ways because they do get completely
munged up on what their actual purposes. In my opinion,
um might have more meaning. But for me this is

(01:15:54):
like I love the idea of like the scrappy people
that are all just coming together because they see something better.
It has to be made to happen. Like to me,
that's where the emotional punches. Yeah, because these characters are
they're giving there. It's a suicide mission basically. I don't
think they really know that going in, but they the
writing is kind of on the wall towards the end there,

(01:16:16):
and they're they're giving their life for a larger cause
it's uh, it's big, it's heavy stuff. Yeah, there's that
moment where uh Jin and Cassie and KA two are
in the vault and K two tells them like the
rebels are here, and she's like when he's like, they've
closed the game, and she goes, we're trapped and he

(01:16:37):
just nods and she knows at that point like this
is where my life ends. But I gotta get this
job done first, I know. Oh my god. And you
talked about the romance. Uh, I think they did it
just right in this which was intimacy but not romance.
They didn't kiss, they hugged, And there's a big difference. Yes,

(01:16:59):
I agree. Um, I think if they had kissed for me,
it would have felt a little bit cheesy. Again, for
other people, it might have been different. There was allegedly
a version of this script where it ended with a wedding. Um. Allegedly,
but there's a reason that version didn't get made right like,
it got scrapped. Um. It would have felt very strange,

(01:17:19):
I think, And there were characters that survived in that
in that iteration. I always thought it was interesting to
play because there's, you know, a bunch of different ways
you can frame and block that final moment on the beach,
and they chose to do it where she was facing
the explosion and he was not, And I thought that
was really interesting. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those

(01:17:42):
things where when you think about the fact that her
father designed that explosion, essentially at the same time he
designed the thing that would destroy the Death Star, he
also still had to carry out his primary mission. Yeah,
she used kyber crystals to make this weapon. When he
says like they would have made it without me in

(01:18:05):
his fuck, dude, what are you doing to me? It's
it's a it's a really, I mean to me, it's
just the It's such a good film. That's why I
love it so much. It is. It's so great. Um,
such a brutal ending, so courageous. I think as filmmakers too,

(01:18:25):
like we mentioned earlier, to to make you fall in
love with these people and then to take them away
from you. It was just pitch perfect, I think. Yeah. Uh,
and with a lot of fun little Easter eggs for
the dorks out among us. Did you know bid Fortuna's
cousin is in this Who's bid for Tuna? So Bid
for Tuna is the major domo for job of the hut? Okay, yeah,

(01:18:48):
you know the guy that Luke Yeah, coercis to let
him in Um. His his cousin in the the story
Beaser Fortuna is in Um is in Um Sagarira's little
hideout where they're all there's a little party going on.
He's the one that looks like really gaunt in a

(01:19:09):
little uh spooky like are you the malnourished of the
four family? Like you? You look like you didn't get
enough vitamins as a kid. Maybe, Oh boy, Holly, you're great.
There's also a tie into um solo in that Uh.
Do you remember when Saws people get um body rook

(01:19:35):
and they're out in the desert questioning him. And there
are characters that have these like I don't know, uh,
sort of a funky shaped head that they have to
have tubes that come out of their little mouth breather
that go to their thing. Their names are Drio and
Benthic two tubes, and one of them shows up in

(01:19:55):
in so Low as one of the cloud writers that
and fist Nest leads I will geek out on the
weirdest stuff for you forever. Do you got anything else?
I think we did it like and then we don't
let me consult my notes, and I talked about that,
talked about that, I talked about that, about that. Yeah,

(01:20:19):
well you'll you'll have a chance because we're gonna do
this again. I think we should just like maybe once
every six weeks or so, kick off another Star Wars movie.
We'll get you an Annie in there for Empire. That'll
be fun. Yes, it's also a good way to hang
and and see y all again. You know, yeah, I
know that's the That's the downside really is that I
miss seeing everybody just even though we usually are so

(01:20:42):
busy running around that in the office we get maybe
four minutes at a time to be like, oh, hey,
how are you. How's this? How's this? Was four minutes?
So right, those were a valuable four minutes. Thank anybody
realized how much we really counted on those to get
us through on like the roughest days. I been recording
stuff you should know in the office actually for the
past like four weeks. Yeah. Yeah, I had a technical

(01:21:07):
mouth function and we lost a mini a short short stuff,
and I was like, you know, I'm not risking it
with like recording two full length episodes. That would be tragic.
So it's been fine. You know, there's no one in there. Um,
it's it's as safe as my house. I feel like,
from from the car park to the office, nobody. Uh so, yeah,

(01:21:29):
it's fine. It's easy to get parking. It's so easy.
If you need me to check on anything while I'm there,
let me know. I'll I think all the plants are
gone so I don't need to water anything. But uh yeah,
I know my desk is just a pile of mess anyway,
Like if I asked you to check for something, you'd
be like, and I don't know how to tell what
is garbage and what isn't this is a mess? All right, Holly, Well,

(01:21:52):
that was a lot of fun and everyone can look
for I'm sure this is gonna people are so excited about.
This has been a long time coming, um, and I'm
glad that we're able to get in here and start
with Rogue one and we can go in any order
from here on out. I think it'll be fun to
kind of jump around. I think we should do the
Mandalorian next because the rabies is very high right now
for that for me personally, we can do that. Yeah,

(01:22:14):
let's do Mandalorian next. We should. We might want to
time it because the second season starts in October, so
we could do it maybe as a lead into that,
which is not that far away, by the way, it's not.
So maybe let's do one other movie. You know. I
want to do Empire with you and Annie next. Let's
do that. That'll be fun. Sold alrighty, Well, it was

(01:22:34):
good seeing you, and take care and hug on those kiddies.
I'm gonna I'm gonna hug to the whole fam and
thanks to everyone for listening, and we'll see you next week.

(01:22:59):
For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart radio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.