Jason Jenkins on Being There

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.

(00:29):
Hey Everybody, and Welcome to Movie Crush Friday Interview Edition,
Friends and Family Edition. I had the great pleasure today
of having my old friend Jason Jenkins in here. Jason
and I went to college together. We uh we worked
at MEXICALI Grill in Athens, Georgia together, and we in
fact we're hired on the very same day. And Jason

(00:49):
became a good friend right away. And as I tell him,
I had the great opportunity to tell someone something face
to face that was meaningful, which is something that everyone
should do when you get the chance. And I was
gonna put it in an email over the years, but
I finally got to sit down with Jason and tell
him what a impact he had on my life. Uh.
He was a big influence culturally, introduced me to so

(01:10):
many things, took my life in a in a direction
culturally that I was might not have gone in otherwise,
who knows. And I listed off some things that he
introduced me to, and then since we recorded, I kept
thinking of more things and I texted him things like
D'Angelo and Frank Sinatra in earnest and uh, it's just
the list goes on and on. Jason's a great dude.

(01:33):
He has done a very interesting thing with his lifestyle
and that he uprooted his family in the States and
said we're gonna live all over the world. And he's
lived in Tokyo and Spain and Malaysia and Thailand in
Mexico and it's really cool. He's got a blog in
a podcast called an Epic Education where he details this stuff.

(01:53):
And if you are interested in doing something radical with
your life and moving your family all over the world,
uh Ja sends a good person to get some good
advice from, and he is open to it. Great guy,
great old friend. And we had a wonderful talk about
his movie Crush the Fantastic hal ashby Peter Seller's Jim
from Envy and Nine being there. So here we go

(02:14):
with Jason Jenkins on being there. Pull that a little closer. Yeah, sorry,
sounds right. You can sit back, you can just pull
the mic you need to do to be comfortable. Um,
we were, and we came back to Japan about six
months ago, and before that we were in Mexico for

(02:36):
about two years. Right, we were in the Yokatan, Mexico. Man,
it would have been great to see it. It's a
it's a killer place. It gets a really bad rap here,
and I mean deservedly. So there's some some rough spots,
but throw the whole country out as ridiculous. That's a
whole conversation. It looks amazing. Emily and I want to
go to Wahaka at some point, all right, right, right right, okay,

(02:56):
Uh that's my sister got married there really yeah, yeah,
she up married six years ago at this really cool
place called Puerto Wescondido. And then it's the best wedding
I've ever been, best family memory we've ever had. It's amazing,
like you know, the bioluminescence where you know, the glow
in the dark sky and then like you know, releasing
sea turtles. Your your girl would love it and you

(03:17):
would love it just because it's kind of laid back
and not crowded. Well we're big into free to callow too,
So it's a lifelong dream to go to the casa.
Did I tell you? Like when when my girl and
I went to Cossa Azul, we listened to the stuff
you should know, free to go, Free to call morehand
and it was it was awesome. Yeah, that's great. Mexico City.

(03:39):
If you want to city escape, Mexico City rocks. If
it was a little more stable, we would live there.
I mean as far as museums and food and culture
and events and like cool neighborhoods to walk around. It's
it's amazing. It's amazing. It looks like Europe in a
lot of ways. Well, just for the benefit of the listener,
I want to explain kind of because I want to

(03:59):
plug what you've got going on too, because you this
is my friend Jason from college, which we'll get into
that in a second too, because I have a lot
of like thanks that I need to give you that's
long overdue for some things. I don't know about that,
but okay, but uh, you made a radical choice, which is,
you know, it's only radical in view of the regular

(04:21):
American way, but the radical choice many years ago when
you got married and had kids, to do something a
little different with your life and to move all around
the world with your family. And uh, you have started.
What all do you have now? Do you have a
podcast and a blog or you still have the blog?
Oh definitely got the blog going on. The podcast has

(04:42):
been on hiatus for about a year. Okay, well, because
see my guests, this is actually my first experience to
have a podcast face to face, like in a studio,
because you do remote stuff. Well, my podcast was all
about family travel. I was always interviewing family travelers who
are a not experienced with pod casts and be always
in some far flung place with spotty WiFi and in

(05:05):
the studio. So it's someone in Peru with a dog
barking outside, or it's someone in Cambodia and her husband
is like zipping the suitcase behind her, like can you
stop that? You know? But when we were in Mexico
recently are they were putting fiber optic into our neighborhood
and it was just so the but the wife I
was on and off. So I just kind of put

(05:25):
it on hold. And then we were moving back to
Japan and so so but I'm I'm making it going again.
So it's called an epic education. Uh. And where all
of you lives now since where you started in Japan?
Just give us the rundown. Okay, Well, I'm crazy awesome.
I left the States in you and I, which we

(05:48):
may get it too, were college buddies, and I graduated
in ninety four, and I taught elementary school for three years. Ok,
that's where I was teaching. I taught in South Florida,
and then I taught in South Atlanta, and I was, um,
I was getting a little stressed out. I was, you know,
I was intentionally working in whatever out at risk neighborhoods
for lack of a better teaching art. I was the

(06:09):
art teacher. So I saw all the kids in the school,
but I was, at least in Florida, I was having
chairs thrown at me, you know, got stabbed with the
colored pencil and the scissors once or twice, you know.
And so which I mean, I chose that job. That's
what I wanted to do. I wanted to be the
you know, the hero of dangerous minds or something to
do what I mean. But after three years, I was

(06:29):
getting Uh, I needed a break. This is pre internet,
you know. And I heard people taught English abroad. So
I went to Taiwan. Actually I mean, and I'll truncate
this story. So I went to Taiwan, taught English there
for a few years. Uh, then moved to Tokyo and
lived there for thirteen years, and moved in from business

(06:50):
English teaching into I got a job with the newspaper
and then an ad agency. And then your wife is
Japanese wife of Japanese. We we met here. She was
a school teacher in in Atlanta, and she sends her regards.
She wanted me to tell you hello, long it's been
a while. It's been a minute maybe since she Well,
we'll talk. I don't know if we want to talk

(07:11):
about that, but but but anyway, so uh um. Basically,
I moved to Taiwan and and then she followed me back.
She left the States and came over, and then we
moved together to Tokyo and we lived there for thirteen years.
I knew you were there for a long time, and
uh And that's where the kids were born. And then
in I was working for an ad agency. She was

(07:35):
working for a bank, and we just didn't see her
kids anymore. We just we were we called ourselves a
tag team single parents, because you know, I would pick
him up one night and she would come home at eleven,
and then she would pick him up the nice and
I would come home at eleven. So we wanted to
make a change. So I worked out something with my
company to work remotely, which is a whole story in
itself that i'll I'll spare you now. And uh, we

(07:57):
started kind of moving around right. We went back to
Taiwan to show the kids, you know, this place that
we loved so much, and then Chang Mai, Thailand, and
then Malaysia and that was two months each. It was
too fast, and so then we went back to Malaysia.
We lived in Malaysia for a year, and then we
went to Spain and lived in Valencia, Spain for two years.
That wasn't sucked, it was terrible. And then uh, and

(08:20):
then we went to Mexico and we lived We started
in the Yokatan Peninsula for a few months and it
didn't really click. And then we went to the sort
of the what do you call it, the high plains
in central Mexico, a place called San Miguel Day end Day,
and ended up staying there for almost two years. And
that brings us up to this summer. And uh, this

(08:42):
summer we moved back to Japan. This time we're in Osaka, Keiko.
My wife's family is in Osaka and the kids, Uh,
this is sort of the last chance for them to
experience home. For you, guys, does it feel like home.
Japan doesn't, even though I've been there at least once
or twice a year since since my wife's family. But uh,

(09:08):
but we wanted to kind of live there. I was
thrilled to be back in Japan after the time away.
I love living in Japan. I didn't like working in Japan.
I mean, I didn't like the kind of hours and
stuff that I was having to put in. But uh,
you know, the kids first language is Japanese and they
can't speak it. Now really they're there. I mean the boys,
all right, the girl can barely speak, but they're fluent

(09:29):
in Spanish and they're fluent in English, which they weren't
when we left. They were not. I mean, they could speak,
but they couldn't read or write on their level. So
we kind of we left and worked on their English,
and then we moved to Spain and we put them
in local Spanish schools where they made friends, and then
the same thing in Mexico. So so there, you know,
and they just didn't identify with that side of themselves,

(09:52):
so we wanted to go back. Or that's one of
many reasons. But the boy's gonna graduate in two years
and he's it's going to go off to college. So
this is yet he has no idea America or he's
looking at, um, some places in the States. We're gonna
do a couple college tours. We'll go to California in
the spring and then come to the East Coast in
the uh in uh um in the summer. He you know,

(10:15):
he still has a bunch of buddies in Spain and
various places, and so he may look at Europe, but
probably the States. It all depends, you know, on a
variety of factors. He doesn't he's seventeen. He wanted he
doesn't know what he wants right right? So what is it? Um?
What's it been like? And what's it been like for
your kids? I know, like to do something like this,
everyone's got to be game somewhat. Um. How much pushing

(10:38):
and pulling was there? Or is it like you would
think it is in a movie where everyone's just like,
great dad, where are we gonna what's the next adventure?
How I wish it was like that, Like what are
the ups and downs and the benefits and the bad things?
There's I mean, there's definitely been uh you know, there's
been pros and cons. I think the pros are Our

(10:59):
kids were you know, sheltered in a way almost like
Japanese kids, right, you know, because that's where they grew up.
And they're much more uh self confident, and we're sourceful.
They can handle themselves. I mean, we just let our
sixteen when he was sixteen, he backpacked through Europe this
summer on his own so well with a bunch of friends,
but like but a bunch of other seventeen eighteen year

(11:22):
old kids, and so you know, he can kind of
swing that kind of stuff and he can manage a
lot of different things. In our girl, you know, she's
she's she's got it together in a lot of ways.
The downside of that is that they were just tired
of moving around eventually, I mean they were they were
meeting friends that basically when we moved, when we moved

(11:44):
to Mexico, it was like, can we stop moving around?
We want to stay in one place for a while.
And when that happens, is it like as parents, you've
got to heat that request. They're they're feedback, you know
is a big part of it, you know, and so
but uh, you know, and so we thought make skill
might be that and it was. It was great for
the time that we were there, but the schools weren't

(12:05):
really prepping the boy for for college that I wanted.
And also at the same time, we realized that they
couldn't speak Japanese and this was the last chance, so
we decided to go back. So when he graduates in
whatever it is, one, I guess we'll you know, he'll
head off and then we'll decide, you know, our daughter
has a vote, and like we're gonna stay in Japan

(12:27):
and we're gonna move somewhere else. With the States, it'll be,
you know, she'll she'll be in that feedback. Are you
ever going to live in the States again? I don't know.
I felt like maybe I feel like when you left
all those years ago, when you left, I felt like,
this is it. Jenkins is never going to come back.
I hadn't thought about moving back in a long time. Um,

(12:50):
but it depends on where my kids are if they
if they wanted to move here, sure you want to,
you know, I'd want to be a little close to them. Yeah,
I mean it all. It all depends on what's go
went on in the States as well. But uh, I'm
not I haven't written it off. But it's not It's
not my first choice right now. I'm happy to be
back in Japan for a while. What is your family,

(13:10):
uh thought about all of this? Well, I mean they thought,
like I thought when I left, I was going for
a year, and that's all I was. I was going
to go. So I was the only one that knew
that child astradamis over here. Yeah, they they thought I
was gonna leave for a year and I did too,
and I was like, I'm not ready to come back,
and I stayed, and you know it, probably the first

(13:32):
five years they were like when are you gonna come back?
And then they realized I'm probably not, at least not
anytime soon. So so, but it's been tough, you know.
I mean I'm the only kid with grandkids. My sister
never had kids. My brother may may not, I don't know,
but it doesn't have it yet. So you know, for
my parents has been kind of tough. So, I mean
you were talking about some of the downside. You know,

(13:54):
I adore my parents and it you know, it hurts them.
Do that, Um, may I take off my shoes whatever
you want. You can take off all your clothes, Jason,
I've seen that body before. Uh So what Um, what
would you like to tell people to seek out of yours? Huh?

(14:16):
What would I want them to see of mine? Because
I know there are a lot of people. I know
for sure we have listeners that live in Japan right now,
some really active movie crushers, and I know that they
there are people that are interested in doing things like this,
and I think people can be scared away from it.
It's intimidating. Um, and I think you could be a

(14:36):
good resource for encouraging this kind of lifestyle. Sure, well,
you know, maybe before I say you know where to
point people towards when you say you have friends or
listeners in Japan, let me just tell you that you
have listeners all over the place. I have bumped into
people in your multiple countries. I thought I wrote you
about that. Maybe I didn't, but I've had I've had

(14:57):
people in multiple countries. You know, when you start talking
about podcasts, like oh have you heard this one? Stuff
you should know? And I'm like, hey, yeah, I actually do.
And they don't just say oh you know that guy,
They go, you know, Chuck Bryant. It's so funny. Yeah,
I've had people come at my sister's wedding in Mexico,
somebody like basically pushed everybody out of it and came
up to me. And there's there's been I mean, and uh,

(15:20):
you know, let me just take a moment to say
I'm thrilled for you man than dude. We would have
never how do I put this? You know, I would
have never predicted that this would have been your career path.
But of course not. We didn't even know what a
podcast was. But to see, you know, the kind of
success you've had and the sort of you know, being
able to do something you love. I love it. I
love it. I'm really really happy for you. I appreciate

(15:41):
it and I for you. So we met. We'll tell
people where to where to find you. Just my My
website is www dot and epic education dot com. The podcast,
the old podcast episodes are there. And then I've got
a lot of pieces on you know, saving money or
how to do this, or how to deal with flights

(16:02):
with with kids on long term and travel gear and
hotel a lot of you know we were we've done
Yeah maybe didn't mention that, but you know, we've done homeschooling.
We pulled our kids, our kids were in local schools
in Japan when we left, and then as we moved around,
we did homeschooling or we would put them in local
schools in various places. We've done a variety of different things,

(16:24):
and I've I've written about it and kind of given
tips on our experience, and we made a ton of
mistakes so people can learn from those. But uh, but yeah,
there's you know where to stay, what to take with you,
and what not to take with you, and then the
podcast is just a different traveling family. Some articles are
about traveling with little kids and others are about a
specific destination. They're all over the place, and so if

(16:47):
I fire it back up, I may give it a
more focus one particular thing because it was kind of
all over the place. But are you on Twitter or anything?
I am? I am. That's uh an epic e d
u all because I think you would be comfortable that
people hit you up, Yeah, absolutely personally for questions instead. Sure, sure,
a lot of people right into the blog. Um maybe

(17:09):
I should say a lot of people lately have been
writing in about the Spanish like residency visa because we
I mean, I wrote these long pieces because it was
a it was a saga to get that as an
American citizen, you know, when you're you you can stay.
So a lot of people write me about that, and
I'm happy to help if I can. But Spain bureaucracy

(17:30):
is always changing. You'll get a different answer in every office.
So a lot of people write me on questions that
they're already in the post somewhere, or I can't really
answer it because this was my experience three years ago
and may have changed. So if you're listening right now,
when you want to move to Spain and you want
to get the permanent residency, or you want to get
your kid into FIFA football like my son did ye,

(17:54):
I'm happy to help if I can, but I may
not have the answer because the rules are changing all
the time. Uh. And what is your job right now?
What are you doing? Actually just just the blog? That's great.
For a couple of years, I was um, I was
working part time, you know, when I was talking about
arranging something with my job. I worked for an agency

(18:15):
in in Tokyo and I was just a glorified copywriter.
Did you work for Nikon? Well that was our client
was our clients, So you know a lot of camera
brochures up until if you looked at a dslr uh
brochure that was me. Yeah, well, basically it's translated. And
then I kind of, uh, you know, it would depend
on the camera. You know, I would have to sort

(18:37):
of massage the text for because it was all, you know,
translated by camera nerds and engineers and so oh it's
an entry level I have to write this the way
a housewife would want to read it, and pro I
have to write it the way the pros were. And
so I got to go on some commercial shoots. That's
how I met you that last time when at the
premier at the Center of Puppetry Yards. Remember that. Hell yeah,

(19:00):
I was coming back from Costa Rica. We were shooting
a commercial with Moose Peterson, this nature photographer. But um,
I'm getting lost track of time. So that's what I
used to do. And then when I proposed to them
to you know, to like not come in the office anymore,
there was a whole lot of my job and I
couldn't do what do you think about me not showing

(19:21):
up exactly? So I basically just I proposed cut my
salary in half and let's see how this works. And
and it worked for three and a half I guess
of the last six years, Yeah, which was great. And
then but you know, nikon Canon, all of are getting
hammered because everybody using their phones now so so their

(19:41):
budgets got lower. And my boss, who was a friend,
he's like, I don't know how much longer I can go.
I said, it's all right, you know, you let me go.
Need But by that point, you know, we were using
some of our savings and using money that the blog
was coming in. I mean, we're not rolling in Doughe
by any means. And anybody who has questions about this,
you make a lot of sack defics. Yeah, to to

(20:01):
live this way. Sure, so so that was a big
part of it. That's awesome, man. I have so much
respect for the move, the moves that you've made and
doing something different. I think like growing up watching movies
like about these like the Mosquito Coast and these kind
of it's always presided in films as these crazy crazy dads.

(20:22):
Uh well, yeah, I mean there's a probable it maybe
a little bit of that, but it's also so rooted
in practical things like you still have to educate your kids,
you still gotta uh so, I gotta get the job
if you know, in different places, and it's a lot
to do that if you're single or you're just a
young couple. But when you got kids, you gotta make

(20:44):
your family. Man, you gotta make sure they have a
place to sleep well. I mean, if it was just
if it was Keko and just to feel secure, stay
in dingy little places and save every every dollar for
some big ticket items. But you can't do that, right.
You gotta be able to. It's really cool, man, so cool.
So we met in college and I was telling Emily
the story last night. We got hired on the same day.

(21:08):
We started on the same day at MEXICALI Grill as
Chip Boys, and um, it was a steam title I've
ever held. I think. Yeah, I didn't know that it
was gonna be such a fortuitous thing. Um, not only
meeting you, but the things that have happened in my
life because of that job, that dumb job. I met you,

(21:31):
and through you, I met Clay, were still one of
my great friends. Through Clay and you, I met Bill,
who's still one of my great friends. Through that job,
I met Justin, still one of my best friends. You're Justin.
I met Timmy, so one of my great friends Meredith extet.
We remember Meredith, right, we're in touch, Like we lost

(21:51):
touch for a long time, but we're now back in
great touch. So you want to go to New York. Um,
the list goes on. It's like that weird Mexican restaurant,
like non existent. Now it's gone, it's gone. But that
is just amazing. How it's crazy, man, Like, what would
have happened had I not gone in there for that
job that summer? Uh? And then through meeting you. So

(22:16):
here's the thanks of gratitude. Um. I was coming out
of high school as a as a Baptist boy, um,
sort of starting to explore different thoughts and pathways in
life and alternate ways of looking at the world that
weren't just through the church. You are a preacher's kid

(22:36):
who got a head start on that stuff. Uh, and
preacher's kids like, there's one of a few ways you
can go. I think you can. You can really rebel
and be bad, you can super follow in the footsteps,
or you can kind of go in that middle area,
which is I think where you went. I guess you
could a certain degree, Yeah, for sure. I mean I
rebelled a lot and did lots of stupid stuff, but

(22:58):
I was still I'm still comfortable in their world. Yeah,
I mean it's not my world for you know, the
lack of a better phrase, but I'm still completely comfortable.
I go, you know, you know, I go to church
with them. When I come back and you don't feel
like your skin is burning. No, no, no, no, not
anymore anyway. But uh no, but I adore them there.

(23:21):
They walk the walk. They live the life. Their parents
are great, They're they're awesome, and they they lived the
life that you know that they profess everyone should live.
And I admire them for that. Yeah, they're they're good people.
And uh so you had a bit of a head
start on um sort of everything that I caught up
to later, and you really like you, You took you

(23:44):
sent me on a different path more so than anyone
else did I you did uh musically, I mean I
could there's a laundry list of things I could live.
You literally turned me onto like you're the one who
came over and said, fucking we're watching Reservoir What dogs tonight?
I saw this movie with me. I don't know if
you remember that, right, you guys, just get your ship

(24:05):
and come over and that's fine, And uh watched that
movie for the first time with you do. You introduced
me to Jim Jarmash, You introduced me to Miles Davis.
You introduced me to Moment the Flaming Lips and the
Butthole Surfers and Salvador Dolly and the Church of the
SubGenius and like, oh, what a great list. I don't

(24:25):
think I could I could keep going. But I don't
think you realized at the time, because we were just
kids that I was just this sponge soaking up whatever
you threw my way. Uh. And I don't think I
realized till later what a big impact that had on
me because that it was amazing, man, that sent me
in a direction. Uh. And you always did it in

(24:47):
a way that was like it was never oh you
haven't heard of this, or right with that sort of
snobby like yeah, man, it was always you. You've always
had this joy about it all and like, oh, man,
can't wait to play you some bebop music, or you've
got to see this movie because you will love it,
not because like I wanted to share with my friends.

(25:09):
That was like, man, I just want you got to
see this. It was I mean, it was annoying, I'm
sure sometimes it was always amazing, just really open mindes
to a lot of stuff, and I'd like, honestly, oh
you're a huge debt. Thank you man. Well, oh man,
the pleasure is all mine and I miss your recommendation.
So we need to get that dialogue going again. Yeah, sure, sure, sure,
I'm not as in the loop, you know, by any

(25:31):
means that you used to be. I know, I like
what I like, but uh, it doesn't have to be
the coolest new hit band. You know. Well basically, you know,
I used to I used to write for the Japan
Times about various music and it was just it was
an easy way to get into shows for free or
meat or meat bands that I liked, you know. I
got all Diplow and inter poll and all. Yeah that's

(25:53):
all that kind of stuff, because you were shooting a
lot of the festivals and yeah, well I was working
at the Fuji Rock Festival managed uh, I mean, and
it's the English language team that I got Clay a
job on that one time, and when he came back there,
remember that it was But um about when I stopped
writing about that, I just I don't know, I like
I still explore new music, for sure, movies, but but

(26:15):
not with the kind of rabid news you know, maybe
you get visit. It was I can't remember if it
was David Letterman interviewing Conan O'Brien or the other way around,
but Letterman talked about when he was ready to quit.
It was like when he came home and his wife
or his kid asked him, like, who was on the
show tonight? He was like, I don't remember, and well,

(26:35):
I think I was like that with music. I was
just consuming and not you know, and then just you know,
going out and grabbing more. And now I'm kind of cherishing. See,
I've been gone for twenty years, so when I come back,
I like to listen to whatever, the classic rock Station three.
It's like, oh my god, it's Creez. You know Creed
Its clear kids. Have you ever heard this? You know,

(26:57):
they have no clue, So it's fun. Yeah. I mean,
I've kind of I always told myself that I'm never
going to stop seeking out new like independent music, and
I kind of have in a lot of ways because
you know, how does he get busy? But I still
try and at the end of the year, I'll read
end of yr list of people I trust, and I'll
pick out a few things. It's just not quite as much.

(27:19):
But I still go to live music all the time.
Are you still playing? You got a band? Right? Yeah?
We still play with and Chris and Jim, I says
the drummer. All right, okay, very cool. If you ever
met Jim, I know the name because he's in that
same circle, but I haven't. He's a friend from high school.
So it's like all these friends, we all ended up
living like within four or five miles of each other

(27:42):
in Atlanta, after many of us going in many different
directions for many years. Uh well, because you know, I
kind of lost touch with Clay for a while, and
we've all kind of converged as adults here and it's
kind of it's great, and you know, some of us
have kids, and it's great. I'd love to hang out
with your kids. At some point. Bill's daughter, why, it
is awesome and we hang out with her some and uh,

(28:05):
it's kind of this two point oh phase. That's I mean,
your kids are graduating now, but it's fun now having
our kids be friends with each other. Sure, yeah, absolutely,
it's just a really it's something to be cherished. I
think you know, I agree and fostered like I don't
like that we've lost touch as much as we have,
we have it. Now we're back. I'm glad I got

(28:28):
to thank you in person. I was going to send
it in an email one time. That's humbling. Thank you.
I having here, Redsward Dogs, Flaming Lips, Jesus Lizard, Miles Davis,
Jesus Lizards music. Now, Miles Davis opened up the whole
jazz world. So that right, it's not just Miles Church
of SubGenius take a planets. I think that's it as

(28:48):
far as the list goes. Um, you knew Chuck Johnson
passed away, didn't you? Did you hear that? You wrote me?
You wrote, Okay, that's right. Yeah, that's how I found out. Yes,
I don't know. I don't know what happened, but I
adored that. I think he had a aneurysm and just
drop dead alone. It was horrible. I know, it's uh,

(29:10):
it was terrible. Chuck was one of our fellow waiters.
Chuck was the first really good gay friend that I had.
That's why everyone from those days still call me Chucky,
because there was already Chuck that worked there. So a
lot of those Mexicaliti people still call me Chucky on
Facebook and stuff. Meritithectent still calls me Chucky. Yes, after
all these years. But it was really sad to lose Chuck,

(29:31):
and I was I was trying to get together a
little reunion and didn't get around to it. But that's
something that we should probably do at some point. That'd
be great. I'd love to see all of those those kinds.
Should we talk? Yeah, sure, being there, let's do it.
I watched it last night. This is the how Ashby

(29:54):
film from nine, obviously starring the great Peter Sellers, who
just got his a biography two days ago. Showed up
in the mail that I know is just going to
ruin everything because he was he was kind of a
monster apparently, so he was like, you know, borderline personality disorder. Yes,
I don't know if he was always that way, if

(30:16):
it was like that near the end. Now, I think
he was always that way and a really tough person
in real life. Uh And and admitted, um, I mean
one of the reasons I did a lot of research
on this one, uh self admitted fan of chance or
Chauncey Gardner and this role because he felt like he

(30:38):
identified with him as an empty vessel. An empty vessel. Yeah,
I read I read something like that too. Yeah, and
he was very well known for um, for no one
really knowing who Peter Sellers was, because he's always in character.
He always fell into some role and didn't really come
out of it until the next one came along. Right.

(30:58):
But not a good husband, not a good father. Uh.
And I'm I wanted to read this book because he's
just I'm such a fan of his work. And I
know what it's what's going to be in there, right, um,
and it's not gonna be pretty, but I read it anyway. Well,
this is one of my favorite movies. But I you know,
I can't say I'm some uh Peter Seller's aficionado or something.

(31:19):
I think I love the Pink Panther movies because I
love to watch my dad laugh you know during those
I mean stick, I thought there was nothing funnier when
I was again the same same I mean, I laugh,
My dad has one of those laughs that just is contagious.
So so we we even watched those now. But I
wasn't a fan of of Doctor Strange Love really well,

(31:40):
I mean I saw it once time ago. It was
too slow paced, and I never watched it again. Now
that we've I've kind of done this research and watched
this movie, i'd probably like it now. But being there,
there was something about it that I connected with, and
then I watched it, and we'll probably get into sort
of the the sort of analogies that are made for
work today passed. But I watched it maybe ten years

(32:03):
ago during the w years and thought, you could put
this movie outright, You could put this movie out tomorrow
and if the film quality in the clothes didn't give
it away, it would look like it was just made yesterday. Um. Now, yeah, yeah,
I'm sure. Well, you know, there'll be some part of that.
We'd get into that. But uh, you know, out of
all the movies you told me to send you some movies,

(32:25):
and I looked at my list and it's the only
sort of quiet, subtle movie. All my other favorite movies
are Bombasted, Indiana Jones and Baron Munchausen and Iron Monkey
and all this sort of like in your face and
then there's Being There, which is this singular, uh subtle gym,
you know. But yeah, but it's still it's still Connects.

(32:45):
I watched it, you know, I watched it a week
or so ago, so before this, and it's just as
good as it was then. I totally agree. Um My
entree into this film was Believe it or not, the
Mad Magazine parody real Yeah, So I don't know if
you're into Mad, but I was a nut for Mad
Magazine growing up, and they had their big film parodies.

(33:07):
It was, I think usually to each issue where they
would parody a film, and I remember it was called
being Not All There, and APPROPRIATE read that before I
saw the movie because I was you know, I was
a little kid and nine year old and Gosie being
there and uh then saw the movie years later. But
it's funny I've had I had a few of those

(33:28):
were Mad, like that's the Exorcist spoof and the Aniguable
Horror spoof to look into that, and a bunch of
those that I saw, like way before I saw the films,
before you saw the film. Oh that's class absolutely, Well,
maybe this is the right point to say. Another unique
thing I find about Being There is well, let me
back up and say, once we decided on doing Being There,

(33:51):
I grabbed the book and I read it Okay, so
you did well. I audio book, but it's a very
short book. It's only like the audio book itself was
like three hours. I mean I listened to it on
a you know, on a trip to Kyoto to check
that out. It's really good, and it would be it
would be one of the only books or one of

(34:12):
the only kind of stories I could say that I
would recommend reading it after seeing it. I hate to
read a book after I see the movie, even after
the trailer, because the characters are burned in and I
don't I don't formulate my own characters, right. I see
the faces, but the story is smaller. That's another unique thing,
the story. They actually flesh the story out. There's characters

(34:34):
that don't exist in the story in the book. Uh
you know, there's whole sort of subplots and little extra jokes. Um.
And the ending, which I'm sure we're going to talk
about it is not in the book, right. I think
I knew that because um, I saw that it was
not in the original screenplay. The original screenplay, the Eve
and Chauncey find each other in the woods and just

(34:57):
get in a car and leave. Is that how it
happens in book? If I remember correctly, it was just
like he's you know, the there's there's people in like
the smokey back room political you know, trying to trying
to figure out who's going to run for president, and
they're talking about him, and he just kind of walks
out a door where in the movie. I'm sure we'll
get to this, you know, it's the funeral and the

(35:17):
pall bearers kind of whispering it as he kind of
wanders off into the woods. Is strange, possibly christ like moment.
I don't know, it's like, you know, but that's that.
I definitely want to, you know, get to that because
I would love to know what how you feel at
that ending. But the book is but but the book
is is is great. It's read by Dustin Hoffman. Oh interesting, um,

(35:39):
which I wondered if this was chosen because, you know,
doing my research, somebody was saying, maybe Chauncey Gardner. And
I'm assuming if you're listening to this, you're you either
read the book or your or you saw the movie
or your board already, right, but you know, he's this
sort of dimwitted guy, and somebody was saying maybe he
was autistic or something. Whether that's true or not. The

(36:02):
book was sort of a strange, a strange twist, but
highly recommended. Yeah, it's interesting because there we don't know
what the diagnosis is, and to see this through a
modern lens um is much different than when it was
made in you would just well, the whole premise of
the movie is that no one understands that he has

(36:26):
any sort of affliction. I guess that back then they
would have called him slow or something or nobody. That
no one picks up on it. That's the whole premise
of the movie is is that people see what they
want to see. That's right, absolutely, I mean that's the
running theme. Um real quick on how Ashby he he

(36:46):
owned the seventies, maybe like no other director owned the seventies.
He went this was his run Harold and Maud and
seventy one, the last detail in seventy three, Shampoo and
seventy five Bound for Glory, and of any six coming
home in sight and then being there in seventy nine.
I don't know if, like any other director can can

(37:10):
claim a run like that one, two, three, four, five, six,
like classic films by anyone standard inside a tenor period.
And then he I don't know how much you know
about him. He kind of went off the DV Yeah, Yeah,
I think he kind of fell off the radar in
his own head too. Yeah. I got really bad into
heroin and cocaine and was sort of looked at his

(37:32):
unhirable for a while and tried to get back in
the game late, and I think made one more one
more movie that didn't do so well, but I had
this great run and then that was sort of it.
And there's a little parallel with Peter Sellers himself there, right.
He made only one more movie before his death, and
it was some lame like Foo Man Chew. It was
like the Curse of Chew or something I remember, which

(37:53):
was you know, it was a nothing burger. Yeah, but
he made, you know, one of the best films, one
of my favorite film a very end of his career
with how Ashby doing the same thing. Yeah, I think
he was sort of problematic for his personality problems. This
at this point in his career, after really cleaning up
in the sort of sixties and early seventies. And it

(38:16):
sounds like it was Peter Sellers that actually was pushing
Ashby to make this movie. He read this book by
a guy named Jersey Kosinski. I'm probably butchering that name.
But he read the book and spent like eight years
pushing Ashby to make this movie and um yeah, and
it's it's a gym. Yeah. And I think how Ashby
wanted uh full control and got some deal with a

(38:41):
group called Lori Mar Pictures, and um, I think they're
the ones that ended up kind of wrecking his reputation.
I'm not exactly sure why, because this was a critical hit,
it was a financial hit. Um. I mean it did
really well, so it's not like they had any you know,
egg on their face for doing this, So I'm not
sure what the deal was. Maybe it was like interpersonal stuff.

(39:04):
But um, the way, and you know, we don't have
to go like in order of the movie. You can
kind of jump around. Um. I guess we should just
talk about the sort of the the way he played
this role, Like the physicality and the voice was just
so spot on, and he just inhabits his character so well.
I wonder, yeah, like I wonder if if he's one

(39:26):
of those method guys that would have stayed like that,
but he did. Yeah, that's it's kind of shocking, you know. Um,
and watching that makes me do it makes me rethink
the autism thing. I don't know, I just I guess
it's on my mind. I just read this book last
year called I Wish You to remember the name of
the author. It's like the Curious Incident of the Dog
at Night. Have you known this book? It's a play

(39:49):
and u uh in a book. It's really it's a
real quick read. But it's written from the perspective of
an autistic teenager and written and he's trying and assault
the crime of like the dog across the street was murdered,
and basically, you know, almost you know, for a normal person,
nothing almost happens. He's like he takes a train and

(40:10):
but it it's written in this way, thinking the way
he thinks. What rewatching? I could see this, I could
see a little bit of Chauncey Gardner. Yeah, but this idea,
this character that had never left, had never left the
walled garden, and it was so obsessed with with television.

(40:34):
And there was a lot of parts that I remember
of him that would then show up later where you know,
he would be imitating something that happened on television and
at just the right moment at the right chance. I mean,
this is you know, the whole idea of being there,
and the little moment of chance was just it was
so well timed. Yeah, everything from the way he uh

(40:57):
and you'll see him, you know, hone in on something
on the television, and the almost at a certain point
you start to get what's going on. You know that's
going to come back. Like the way he shakes hands
and when he when he first met the president Jack
Jack Gordon, who was fucking phenomenal, and the way he
shakes his hands so vigorously, both hands and Jack Warden
can't get his hands away from him. Or the way

(41:17):
you know he sees some stagecoach driver tip his hat
and then later he tips his hat, and the or
right at the right moment when the woman who's in
love with him comes in, Uh, he sees somebody kissing
on television, right, he does it the same way. Oh,
can we just stop for a moment. Like some of
the uh, some of the little TV moments are so

(41:41):
brilliant and I kind of remember them from you know,
my childhood. That was like the but you can call
me Ray and you can call me j And there
was the basketball Jones at you know you know who
did that as Cheech and Chong Man. Oh really yeah,
which I doesn't make sense, like I rewatched, it doesn't

(42:01):
sound like them. But when you look at credits, it's
it's Basketball Jones. Yeah, but that little that little you know,
weird kind of cartoon. And but then and other stuff
like Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers and you know, Peppermint
patty commercials and all these weird little things. And a
lot of times I liked how they would kind of

(42:21):
clue in, Like in the Basketball Jones it's saying, you know,
I need someone to stand beside me, and it's paralleling
this woman who's sitting right next to him. And yeah,
there are a lot of slide little things like that.
There was a lot of little found objects that sort
of kind of mirror the situation in a subtle way. Yeah.
So he's in in Washington, d C. And at the
very beginning of the movie, um, which is another parallel

(42:43):
that will play out in his second life at the
Biltmore State in North Carolina, right, which have you ever
been there? I haven't, but it's pretty amazing. Yeah, it's
something else you should check it out at something that's
another difference in the book is the book takes place
in New York City and so this is and in
the summertime. But so the movie is actually better with
the winter and the stuff like uh and the you know,

(43:04):
the political climate. I thought that was great. And then
overcoade and the umbrella and the whole look, you know,
sort of completely complete that look for sure. But he,
you know, the old man which is what he calls him,
whoever his his own this house that he's lived in
as the gardener. The old man has died, and um,
he has to leave the house. And that that very

(43:24):
early scene where the two uh, I guess real estate
attorneys or whatever they are basically tell him, you know,
you gotta leave. Um are you going to try and
make a claim against the estate, And that sets up
the whole recurring thing with the claim, like, you know,
and I don't want to make a claim, but he uh,
it's interesting to look at that today, like this was
the seventies. They were basically like, this guy clearly needs

(43:48):
help and they just toss him out on his ass.
Today that would there would be someone to help him.
They would put him in touch with the social network,
absolutely support network. I think it's some kind of support
net to get him going, a case workers, a social
worker or something. And it's funny to look back at
the seventies and they're like, oh, this guy who was
like you know, obviously has some at the very least

(44:11):
some pretty big learning disabilities. Uh, you're out on your
ass in the middle of Washington, d C. And uh
credit to I mean the music choice there when they
are playing the two thousand theme, I had the discode
up version. Diodado is his name, I can't remember. It's
like a Brazilian. He was like a contemporary check Korea.

(44:33):
All these guys human Diodato or something like this sort
of Latin disco thousand ones pretty great, which you know
is short of you know, was probably a nod you
know to uh to the movie itself. He sort of mood,
you know, emerging into the world, and Uh, it was

(44:54):
just it was it was classic. I've actually been listening
to it since, so really, yeah, it's funny as hell. Man.
It was nice. Uh. And then there's one of the
most and I think it's sort of was played for
laughs in nineteen seventy nine, but watching it last night,
it was such a heartbreaking scene when uh, he meets
the sort of street toughs, and the the guy flicks

(45:15):
a switch plate in his face and he tries to
change the channel. He picks up his remote control and
points it at the guy and clicks it. So sad,
but so sad. It's kind of funny, but in seventy nine,
I'm sure it was like a laugh riot. I'm watching
it as a forty eight year old man in two thousand,
nineteen or twenty, and I just wanted to start crying
because this guy has never been faced with reality and

(45:36):
he's trying to change the channel. Alsothing that's scary. Also
not in the book, that whole, the whole part. And
I got a fact for you, the little trip yad
all right to that kid, the kid that's like you,
you tell that chicken chip mother like that guy. His
name is Otel Burbridge, and he was the bassist for

(45:57):
a band called Aquarium Rescue n What Yeah, I have
no idea for the listeners. Aquarium Rescue Unit was one
of the only kind of jam band types that I
got into. Bruce Hampton, Colonel Bruce Hampton. Colonel Bruce Hampton
looked like your high school Jim coach. He had this
big tom Selleck mustache and more like Jim shorts and

(46:19):
a beer belly. And then he had this freakazoid band
with like some you know, weird hippie guitarist and then
had this fishbone ish looking basis guy. I mean, look,
you turned me on the fishbone too, by the way,
how that you mentioned it? And I'm proud of that.
But anyway, and there he is. And I don't know. Uh,
I knew that before I looked it up on IMDb,

(46:42):
but I went to confirm it before I told you that.
But this These guys played at the Georgia Theater and
a variety of places when we were in college. Why
the hell he's in being there? I have no clue
and I have no idea what he's doing. Kid, maybe
he was. Maybe we also turned me onto bad brains
speak King of DC dude. Yeah, yeah, bad brains. These

(47:03):
are gonna keeps h I mean this a while back,
means maybe five or not so great. They're not doing
back flips on the stage. Yeah, none of us are, Jinkie.
Um so yeah, he he leaves the house and then
has a very fortuitous thing happens. He gets backed into
by a car of the wife of a very rich

(47:27):
and influential man. Uh, these days he would be these
days he would be a tech billionaire. It's fund manager.
He's one of Warren Buffett or something basically, but has
you know, he's has such influence that he has the
ear of the president played by Jack Warden. The wife
is played by uh Trulie McClain, and Melbourne Douglas is

(47:48):
the his new old man and he kind of falls
from one situation, falls right in, right into the same
goddamn situation. Yeah, and you know, it couldn't have been
more perfect that he finds it and he's even and
that's one of the beautiful things is that he's not
deceiving anybody. He has no idea that they don't know. Uh,

(48:10):
you know that he doesn't. He thinks he's doing exactly.
It's like, oh, wow, this is just now you'll make
my lunch. You know, that's kind of you know, Louise
made my lunch, and now you'll make my lunch. And
this is where at this point, this is where the
sort of comedy of errors of misunderstandings and hearing what
you want to hear really kick in. As he's at

(48:31):
dinner and like this army of waiters and butlers are
serving the meals. And he starts to talk about that,
you know, his house closed down and the attorneys closed
it down and this you know, this character what's his name, Rand,
which is a perfect for this too, you know exactly
or you know Iron Rand and all of that. It

(48:53):
was just it's perfect. Uh, you know, he he what
he hears is not the literal nous of what he's saying,
but that uh, you know, and he says, I want
to work in your garden and comes and all this
and what this metaphors funny and he hears it as
metaphors and the you know, the American entrepreneur has to
you know, till the soil and you know, and plant

(49:15):
the seeds. And then when he talks about like all
I have is the room, you know, this is Chance
talking to or Chauncey. Yeah, because they misunderstand. He says
Chance the gardener in the book, there's Chance and Chauncey.
Uh you hear from his Chances perspective, and Chauncey, which
is kind of nice, but here he's Chauncey to everyone.

(49:35):
But you know, Chauncey says something about that all he
has now is the man upstairs, and that just hits
home to him, the to the to this billionaire because
I have none of that. I have none of that.
I'm going to the man upstairs next. Yeah, don't you
talk about that? And so it really sets this sort
of snowball in motion of just everybody wants him to

(49:56):
be there, their savior, there, their their sage. It's interesting,
there's so many like it's a comment on so many things,
everything from uh dumb, dumb TV culture to politics too,
people not listening, truly listening to someone and filling in

(50:16):
the blanks that they want to hear. Um. I mean,
it's a satire. It's not as funny as I remember it's.
It's pretty dramatic film. It's dramatic and you know, um,
you know uh rainy in if this is going off
on the wrong the wrong way. But I'm not a
fan of like today's cringe comedy you curb your enthusiasm

(50:40):
and all that. I don't I don't dislike it, but
it makes me uncomfortable and I don't enjoy watching it
because no, no, I'm not saying I hate all of it,
but I don't watch all of it because it's just
it's a very uncomfortable situation. Is well, this movie has
that a little bit of that, But I relish it
because I just can't believe they're I say, can't but

(51:00):
there that they I think the differences and something like
The Office, which I loved, it's an obnoxious character who's
making everyone uncomfortable. And this he is so pure of heart.
There's none of that. Maybe that's it. He's a good guy.
He's he's honest to a fault because he knows nothing else.

(51:22):
All he knows is how to talk about the thing
right in front of his face, or the thing he
knows about, which is gardening and television. Television, so good. Um,
And then you know this, this budding romance starts to
bloom because Rand is a dying man. He has this
younger wife who's desperate for some sort of attention and

(51:45):
romance that she's never had, and she that's she sees
that in him, and then so she doesn't see anything else.
And Shirley McLain is so great in this. Um, I
read some of the behind the scenes stuff like he
was Sellers was in character the whole time. She is
just a world class kook and always has been. Um.
So she was on set talking about her numerology and

(52:06):
all her writer past lives or something past lives. Hal
Ashby is they're just stoned out of his mind. Ashby
is what they call uh. And apparently it was just
like a pretty crazy scene I believe on the set
of being there. But through all that you get this
very docile, sort of calming film. It has that effect

(52:27):
on you when you're watching it even right it's it's calming.
And then there'll be these moments where, oh, he's going
to get found out right now somehow. I mean like
the point where he goes he finally sees another black
person and he goes, do you know Raphael, And you're like,
oh my god, he's about to give that message, but
you don't get that to the credits, right, which I

(52:47):
want to talk about that later to a very controversial
right sort of thing. Um. By the way, the DP
as well as was Caleb Deschanel, who is Zoe desion
else father. Yeah all right. Um. Apparently how Ashby used
to work almost exclusively, exclusively with the great Haskell Wexler,

(53:08):
but he was not available, so they went to Caleb Deschanel,
which is pretty interesting. Um. So he's in this new
situation that is just like the old one. People starting
to find him out a little bit because of two reasons. One,

(53:28):
you basically have two people investigating him. You have secret
Service because of his eventual meeting with the president and
and all of a sudden, this guy's getting quoted on
the evening news as this economic stage. Uh. And then
you have the other group investigating the Russians or you
mean the attorneys, the attorneys, um, and you get the feeling.

(53:53):
And the doctor he's sort of one of those is
sort of like what he was. He's another added character.
That's good. There's some person who is sort of suspicious.
He's like, this doesn't really match up, and and he's
great in the movie. But what's interesting that hit me
last night, after all the times I've seen this is
they are all I think. I think they think they're

(54:14):
after a con man. Uh. They don't come out and
really say it, but they're like, something stinks here, like
this guy's putting one over on us. But like you
said earlier, that's not the case. He is a mystery
man and he and there is no documentation. There is
a mystery to be solved. But he's not cunning anybody, right, Right,

(54:34):
there was that great scene where you know, he has
the FBI director and the CIA director and he's like,
all right, this guy, you know he's got it. You've
burned his records. Neither of them know anything, but their
own pride stops them from saying we don't know anything,
because they're like, well, he's a man, and so in
that point, they're not seeing in him what they want

(54:54):
to see. It's like literally their own pride is you know,
uh office skating their their own view, and they can't
they can't admit that they don't know. So another series
of chance where people's own fallacies and they're people's own
sort of you know, problems with their own ego that

(55:15):
they want, you know, allow this guy to move forward.
That's right. Oh, I know the other the investigator that
I was thinking was the the reporter from the Financial
Times or whatever, because he's the first one that calls him.
And that's such a great scene the phone call he gets, oh,
and he's like he starts doing yoga, basically moving the

(55:35):
phone away from his ear, like he doesn't even fully
understand how the phone works. And this guy's like are
you still there? Are you there? And he like has
fully set the phone down because the television is on. Right,
it's like my four year old right, and he's like,
I've been on television because at that earlier scene he
had been remember when he's like when he got hit
by the car. He got hit by the car. He
was standing there. That was a great moment because two

(55:57):
thousand one disco version is is kind of fade out
and he's standing there and there's like a moon and
some something behind there to kind of ship, and he
sees himself on a video recorder. So when they asked
him to be on the talk show and he's like, yes,
I've been on television again. Honest, he never lies. He
never He's never anything. He's and at the same time

(56:21):
as he's doing these idiotic things when people are not
looking or you know, just or just watching television and
saying these empty platitudes or well they're not even platitudes
to him, they're just straight forward facts about gardening. You know.
I just I wrote down some of the things that
people were, you know, they what they called him. They
called him smart and sensible, they called him level headed,
they said, you don't play games with words, Chauncey. You're

(56:43):
direct and straightforward. You know, you have the gift of
being natural, you know. And then I feel safe with you.
And then, uh, you know, you seem to be a
truly peaceful man. And those are all those are true,
you know. But and that's another thing about this is
that he's never lied and deceiving and you know, uh,
he's not trying to stay one step ahead of them.

(57:04):
He's just which is in a way, I was trying
to think of an equivalent to this movie where someone
stumbling I think, and I haven't seen it since I
was maybe ten years old, but like an early Tom
Hanks movie where it's like The Man with the One
Red Shoe, where it's like everybody, this is just some
schmoll but everybody thinks he's some spy or something and
doesn't realize it. But by chance, you know, somethings stumble

(57:29):
into place. But you know, aside from that, I can't
think of any other think Forrest Gump tried to do
some of this stuff in a way more obvious and
ham fisted and fisted way. Absolutely, um, I think I
think it wanted to be it being there in some way,
it's interesting. Yeah, you're not wrong. I don't even I

(57:50):
don't know why I didn't think of that one, of course,
of course, but the sort of slow, mentally challenged guy
who stumbles through life makes every week and everybody loves him,
and he thinks, but this is so much more real
and substantial, and like the I mean, how I A
should be played it. And I think he got someone
else to help him write the script aside from the
someone did, like a uncredited rewriter or whatever. But I

(58:14):
think they made all the right moves. Um. One of
my favorite shots early on that I wanted to mention
was before he even goes to the second Old Man's house,
when he's walking up the median toward the Capitol Building
with with the the umbrella in the briefcase or the
suitcase or whatever, and the cars are going on both
sides of him, and again it's just that that childlike

(58:37):
sort of thing, like I don't even know if he knows,
like he'd never been in a car. He said, so,
I've never been in an automobile, and he didn't know
what an elevator was. And that was one of the
great lines, is where the but the butler thinks he's
this hilarious guy, like, how long do we stay in
this room? This is the smallest room in the house,
and he's like, oh, yeah, that's the smallest room. Card well,

(59:02):
and then and that part is kind of sad later
on when he gets in and the butler just sort
of cracks up and then quickly apologizes and so I'm sorry,
I thought you were gonna he's one of those great singers.
But he feels bad about it, and I felt bad
that he didn't that he felt bad. You know, it
was one of the things because Chauncey couldn't say he

(59:23):
just has Yeah, well that's the thing is to well
and you know, I don't think we've got to this directly,
but you know, we've talked about how people see what
they want to see. But he's this sort of distinguished
looking man with a placid face, and he's very well dressed.
He has good posture, and he speaks slowly and deliberately,

(59:45):
and the most people on the planet that means authority
figure and so everybody projects onto him. This is someone
with authority, and so that man was trying to he
was he was trying to connect with him. He thought
he was going to do with those jokes, and then
suddenly he's like, oh, I can't do this because I've
overstepped the line, and you know, in chances to sit

(01:00:08):
and has no idea the first if I can kind
of circle back right, you know, before he even before
he even got uh Um into the house. The first
time when this happens is where maybe right after the
scene you were just talking about, where he walked down
the meeting and he's near the White House or something
and he sees a tree and he touches the tree
and then he sees a police officer and says the
stupidest He's like, this tree is sick. We need to

(01:00:30):
help it. And because he's if if he was if
he was a homeless black man, if it was if
it was me or a teenager that said that, you know,
that cop would be like, funk off and get out
of here. But because of the way he looks and
the way he's dressed, he literally calls it in. He
calls it in because this guy looks like someone that

(01:00:51):
you have to listen to. It's right, he could have
been a senator or whatever. It's funny you were talking
about the authority. There's that great scene later with once
he only gets on TV and you see some of
the reactions of the people from his past. And there
is the African American woman who worked with him, as
I guess she was like the housekeeper. Yeah, and she's like,
this is a white man's world, to be sure, and

(01:01:16):
this is nine And that was so relevant. Um, like
you were talking about so many things I was picking
up on, uh that it could have been in like
a contemporary film. And she flat out says it. She's like, like,
it is a white man's world, Like that guy doesn't
have two brain cells rubbed together. Oh no, she she said,

(01:01:36):
like Rice Putting tells a jackass. Ain't nothing but Rice
putting between his ears. Such a great line rise putting
between his ears a jackass. I love that. But and
and I don't want to keep doing this. But that
is not in the book either. Louise is dead in
the interesting in the in the book, so I'm so

(01:01:57):
glad that they brought her in. Yeah, that whole issue
would have not would have not been addressed. And I
think is one of the most important parts of the
book and most of the like one of the most
relevant things in the movie that continues on today. Yeah,
I mean it's a comment on race, uh and uh,
status and privilege. Oh, just so relevant to today, especially

(01:02:17):
with what's going on in the White House right now.
Uh someone who. I mean, the parallels are there with
the television and yeah, I um, you know when I
first when I rewatched this and then I started kind
of reading up and there was all these pieces on
this is exactly. It's being there all over again, and
at first I kind of pushed back, not that I
didn't see it, but I thought, well, there's some significant differences. First,

(01:02:41):
the similarities we you know forty five are President now
is obsessed with television. This guy's obsessed with television. Forty
five is uh he says things and tweets things, and
then people interpret them in different ways and see read
what they want to read and hear what they want
to hear. Those are both there. But of course our
president is sort of really kind of a hateful and

(01:03:02):
sort of he is and I he's a con man,
whereas uh, you know, Chauncey Chance is pure. He's he's
an he's an innocent. He doesn't even realize he's an innocent.
He doesn't you know, he's almost he's almost not sentient
in a way. I mean he's almost like a single
cell amiba that just goes from television to to lunch.
Louise cooks me lunch. You know. Yeah. It's interesting in

(01:03:25):
the in the framework of looking at a film character
because a lot of times you either identify or there's
something about the character that like he plays it so
just flat that it's interesting that you root for him, Um,
like you want him to be okay, but why you

(01:03:48):
want him you know, you're like you worry that he's
about to be found out, when it really he really
should be found out because he could really do damage
to the world if somebody misinterprets something he said, and
he would probably be taking care in some way, he
would probably be put somewhere. But instead he's falling into
like he's like a breath away from the White House
by the end of this movie exactly, he's you know,

(01:04:11):
paddling around with a Russian diplomat and that's another great Uh,
that's another great you know, um, misunderstanding or reading what
you want to read the guys like you know, I
think you you must or he says, we're not too
far apart you and I, and he goes, yes, our
chairs are next to each other, you know, and then
he got you know, the Russian guy spins into this

(01:04:31):
narrative and then he's like, I think you like Kree
loss fables and I looked up Cree los ables. It
was basically a Russian guy who did a lot of
sort of you know, uh a fable. So he started
with Esop and then kind of moved into more Slavic
culture stuff. But then he just recites some of one
I guess in Russian and you know, in Chance giggles

(01:04:52):
because he's never he talked funny. It's basically probably was
going on in his mind. And because he laughed, and
because it was a joke, he's like I knew it,
knew you spoke. And then I was like, oh my god,
how far can this go? And apparently it could almost
go to the presidency. Well it's interesting because Ruby is
four and a half, and um, you remember this from

(01:05:14):
when your kids were young pre sarcasm, before they understand
what that means everything is. So it's like Chauncey, everything's
face value, everything is taken is what the worlds are
and literal that is coming out of your mouth. And
I will be sarcastic about stuff like, oh, that's that's fantastic,
that's great, and she's like, why did you say fantastic?

(01:05:37):
How could you say that like a sarcasm? Ruby will
understand it one day. But he plays it like that,
except he doesn't even have the personality of a four
year old, you know, he plays it just so flat. Um,
it was pretty risky, I think because it's not a
lot to draw you in. Uh. It very much leaves
you on the sidelines as a viewer, I think because
you can't relate to the guy. You're rooting for him,

(01:05:59):
but not because you know, Forrest Gump, they took it
too far in the other direction. They made you know, well,
he had a personality where where a chance is a
blank canvas and everybody just paints on him. They just
paint what they want on him. And he's like you whatever,
the empty empty vessel or whatever Sellers himself said, He's
just this empty canvas that people project what they want

(01:06:22):
to see on him. Where you know, guys like the
President or Forrest Gump, they have, you know, for better
or worse, they have their own opinions and personality, those
kind of quirks that come through where this guy is uh,
you know, not even I was gonna say a shape shifter.
But he's not trying to shape shift. He's just this
thing that you know, shows you what you want to see. Yep.

(01:06:43):
Everyone is projecting onto him what they want to hear.
And it can get a little frustrating at times too,
but not because like someone listened to him, he really
has something to say, because he doesn't. Um. They are
like the man. I think he's fresh spect he's so enlightening,
you're just like okay, or he's so funny he stows straightforward. Uh.

(01:07:08):
Shirley McClain. That that the love making scene, you know,
one of the one of the great lines is I
like to watch to watch and she of course takes
that as as I wanted. He wants me to masturbate
in front of him. Right. One of the things that
they cut out of the movie and probably understandable for
the time nine seventy nine was remember the gay character

(01:07:30):
comes up and says, if you know, would you have
you ever had sex with a man. Somehow it gets
to I liked I like to watch, and he goes
hold on I'll go get Warreden, you know, which was hilarious.
Um in the book, he actually goes up with somebody
too really and the guy takes his clothes off and
starts masturbating and he gets his shoe on him or whatever.
But in in chance his mind he thinks the guy

(01:07:53):
sick because he's twitching and moaning and right, and so
he comes back downstairs where you basicals, Oh I was
with YadA YadA, he was sick. Oh, you're so considerate
taking care of him. Another case where just these and
these and and you think when he's happening, how how
is this going to happen? Yeah, but it comes through
stumbles through it something. Yeah, I think it's interesting. The

(01:08:15):
Mr Magoo, that's who he reminds me of. Mr McGoo.
It just came to me. But like Mr McGoo was
just walking through life and he would walk off the
side of the building and it would just happen to
be when the elevator cage got there, or or he
would land on a bank robber and everybody would think, oh,
you saved the day. But you know he's sort of

(01:08:36):
totally Yeah, I see more comparison to that than Forrest
gump me. Yeah, I thought it was interesting how he
handled death because he faces it twice with the both
of the old men in his life, and he immediately

(01:09:00):
just kind of turns to the TV uh in both
cases or leaves like that's his his blanket essentially. Um,
he doesn't understand what's going on. But again with like
there's never any emotion at all. Um. And I think
people read that as like a stoicism, right. You know,
there there's a single tear in that last scene. There is,

(01:09:22):
there is and that and which was that much more
powerful because there's nothing before that. It was like he
really finally gave you something. He really he really cared
for that guy, where the guy he lived with his
entire life. He was ready to watch Captain Kangaroo, you know,
as soon as he died. But but not to diminish
what you're saying, but there's so little emotion and he

(01:09:42):
and then he may have had that tear and gone
right back to he would have tuned out into anything
that was on television. Yeah, that's really important though, Like
they did, they gave you that one little nugget, that
one tiny little tear, which was super impactful. Uh. And
you know as the it feels like a sort of
a seventies mystery in some ways, like the net is

(01:10:05):
closing on him as the movie goes on. The whole
sort of second hour of the movie has these various
storylines where everybody's investigating him. They're getting closer and closer,
and like there's nothing on this guy's you know, they're
taking his fingerprints off of a glass. Yeah, it's like
for real, they know that his suits were made in
nineteen that's right, you know, That's that's all they know

(01:10:28):
about him, you know, no fingerprints, no hospital records, yea.
And so they's made into this man of mystery and
he's just do just kind of walking around. I could
see them remaking this movie. I hope they don't. I
hope they don't. This is one of those certain remakes
would be good, and it would depend on who it is.
I mean, I would see it if it came out,
But I hadn't even thought about that. That should be

(01:10:49):
something I should have prepared for this for this podcast.
And if it was remade, who who? Who could pull
it off? Man? Um? I don't know, Like I see
Paul Rudd doing it. I mean, even though he's a
the animated guy. Yeah, see, I can see him doing
the flat I can see him pulling that off. Or
if they did, if they wanted to, like I'm sure
like a Jim Carrey or Will Ferrell would die to

(01:11:10):
do something like this, to really kind of take a turn. Yea,
either of them, Either of them could pull this off.
But there's so much here that is so relevant because
these days it would be internet research and there would
be parallels. But you know, you played the president in
a different way because Jack Warden isn't a bad guy
in this movie necessarily as the president. Um, he gets

(01:11:34):
the endorsement, which is interesting. How would this movie play
out if it was in in present day with with
social media and then in the two hour news cycle,
it would be all it would be more like it
wouldn't be nearly as quiet and slow Bernie. It would
be a bigger deal. Um, the President would be like
some big buffoon. I think you'd just be more over

(01:11:57):
the top and kind of every way. Can you imagine
Chaunsey Gardner's Instagram feed? I mean would totally work. He
would just be staring off in his sunset and it
would be like, flowers are strong. It's like Jack Handy,
Jack Nice, Nice Nice. I think you turned me onto
Jack Handy too. I'm just gonna say you turned me
onto everything, Jinkie. I'm just glad I turned you on, sweetheart. So, uh,

(01:12:21):
I guess you know we can get into the ending. Yeah,
one of the classic most most classic, un uh not unambiguous,
ambiguous endings in movie history. I think the old man dies,
like you mentioned before, the Paul Bearers. You hear the whispers,

(01:12:41):
the way they intercut that last scene, it's just so great.
The editing is just so wonderful. Did you notice the
Illuminati sign on the grave? Yeah? Wow, that was that.
I didn't notice that the last time I saw Yeah,
the Illuminati, And I think it even says life is
a state of mind on the grave, which is the
last line of the movie. Right, So the President is
eulogizing Rand and true to form or true to his nature.

(01:13:08):
Chauncey or Chance has wandered away into the woods to
look at flowers and trees and to be himself. And
he and if you've never, like, if you haven't seen
the movie and you want to, and you've gotten this far,
stop listening, because I don't want to ruin it. It
is one of the great great endings in movie history.

(01:13:29):
All right, if you're still here, uh in the book,
like we said in the original script, it doesn't in
this way. But he goes to the edge of the
pond and walks starts walking across it on water, And
if you wondered if he was really walking on water,
he kind of pauses and then sticks his umbrella down
into it and then gets up and which apparently was

(01:13:51):
an improv moment, was it. Yeah, Peter Seller stopped and
put the umbrella down. But you know, they built a
little pier a few inches below the waterline. And one
of the great filmmaking decisions of all time, I think,
is to change that ending, because it really makes It's
one of those endings that makes you rethink everything you've seen.
And two bottles of wine later after the movie, you're

(01:14:13):
discussing it with people what you think it means? So
let's hear it. What do you think it means? I
wanted to ask you first, but uh, well, I've kind
of changed over time. I think when I first watched it,
I thought it was this whole comment on on religion
in general too. I thought, uh, oh, this is Jesus.
This he is, He's not, he is not Jesus. But

(01:14:36):
it's basically trying to say Jesus. Maybe Jesus was dimwitted,
or maybe Jesus was just a normal guy and people
saw in him what they wanted to see, and then,
you know, fast forward a hundred years of interpretation and
interpretation and misinterpretation, and then he's all of a sudden,
maybe this guy really was just a carpenter who told
a couple of stories about sheep and goats and do

(01:14:58):
you know what I mean? And uh, and and then
it was sort attorney So I thought it was this
total commentary on that now, um, you know, in a
part of it, though, I thought that was kind of
a a little bit. Yeah, I kind of thought that
was a bit of a cheap joke at the end
because there was no but it was sort of a
one two punch. And maybe that's where I was too,

(01:15:19):
and I was cheap joke all of this, Jesus is
a dumbass, do I mean? And I was like, and uh,
but maybe at that time in my life that that's
what I I projected onto that. Yeah, this is a
very sharp criticism of organized religion. And I was the
same way dude, and we were both church boys. So yeah,
and maybe that's that's just where I was at that point,

(01:15:40):
and I, oh, it's all the sham and blah blah blah.
Now I've I've kind of looked back at it as
sort of a life as a state of mind, which
is the last line in it, and it's sort of
this idea of, uh, you know, he's he's been able
to do everything. It's almost like he's some supernatural creature
that can do whatever he wants and people are sort

(01:16:00):
of charmed by it. And so the water is just
as is under his sway as much as anyone else.
Is that that is that the accurate? Well, uh, you know,
there's no right answer for sure, because is there any
not at all. I looked and there's no there is
no right answer. I think he very much wanted it

(01:16:22):
to be open to interpretation. Um. I saw it as
a religious allegory as well when I was younger, but
now it's a little bit more like he doesn't know
he can't walk on water right, right, right, And that's
true to his character to make that leap of faith,
not religious, but um, to step out onto it Uh,

(01:16:46):
but it's really happening. So, I mean that's the cool
thing about movies like this. I think it's or is
it really happening, like you don't have to if you
start nitpicking? Or is this the final metaphor? Right right?
This is this the final metaphor that that we are
projecting onto you everybody, you know, everybody thinks he's speaking
in metaphors. Really funny the entire time, totally what it is.

(01:17:09):
You know, it's like the characters spend the whole movie
doing that, and at the very end the audience is
doing that. Yeah. Wow, I think we're figuring it out.
It's such a great ending though, and it's really it's
one of those that you know, when they do these
big Oscar Award, uh super cuts of all these great

(01:17:30):
moments in cinema history. Inevitably there's a shot of Johncey
Gardner walking as you always see it. It's like they're
singing in the rain. There's uh, there's rain man, there's this,
there's Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn, Like
this is one of those cinematic moments. Uh, and it
almost wasn't there. But do you think this movie is
on everybody's radar. You you're more attuned to those things now,

(01:17:54):
But I always thought of this is sort of this
small little film that I knew, But I don't know
if it's of those I think as a whole. Like
when I list off last detail in Harold and Maud
like film, people know what those movies are. But when
you say great filmmakers of the seventies, people probably start
talking about Scorsese and and uh, well Lucas has to

(01:18:16):
be debated. But um, I don't think how Ashby is
on the tops of everyone's list, and he should be
because that run of films was incredible. It was, and
he had a way about him and his movies Harold
and Maud, you know they were all they weren't very
just sort of straightforward Hollywood films. He always had a

(01:18:37):
unique angle on everything. I think it was really a
great matching of material, actor, director all coming together for
It's like it's really a combination special sauce. Right, Yeah,
Walking across that water just the best. I could watch
the ending a hundred times and I'm trying. I think
Mad Magazine ruined it for me. I didn't believe saw

(01:19:00):
the magazine version of that first. But I mean I
didn't see this movie until much later. It might have
been college. That's probably where I saw it first. Yeah,
I mean I didn't see it as a kid. And
I talk a lot on the show those early college
years when because of people like you and then getting
the job at Vision Video and really going down that
road that early nineties independent cinema boom, from Jarmish to

(01:19:25):
Spike Lee. It was just like it was such a
great time there was to be one years old and
like really exploring that. The whole room full of movies
to watch. Yeah, whole room full of movies. I mean,
I mean we would sit around and record, uh, what's
his name? Who was the preacher they ended up doing
the Reverend Bob Tilton. Reverend Bob Tilton. Put your hand

(01:19:46):
on the screen. Put your hand on the screen. You
were YouTube man, Like later on on YouTube people would
do him like farting and stuff. Whereas you guys would
just record that ship off late night TV and we
would sit around and watch it, and I had tons
of stuff I remember us watching that, uh that you know,
haralda were Vera getting hit with a chair and the
nose like in slow Mo play by play every time.

(01:20:08):
I can't. You guys were YouTube every time I came over,
you had something on a video cassette that you were
recorded that we would all sit around and watch. And last,
who was the tap dancing Bandit? Do you remember that? Jessico? Yes, Jesso, Yeah, yeah,
that era of stuff, right man. I totally forgot about that.
He was great. And what was his name? Ye oh,

(01:20:30):
I can't remember exactly what it was. It was Jessico,
but he was the whatever tap dancing bandit or something
like that. And then um, we would listen to uh
Dr Dre's The Chronic and play street Fighter and Mortal Kombat.
That was That was Clay and Jason Hughes. I was
not a big fan of Dre, but we did. Really no,
it was never a big I mean, I liked a

(01:20:51):
lot of hip hop. Im was born in Public Enemy
back then. But Luna and Camper, Camper van Bato and
there was tons of stuff we all love to know.
It's the best. I still love Luna. I just saw
them recently and I'm trying to get Chuck d on
the show and I finally got an insider connection. Who's
someone who knows him personally and they talked to him
and he was like, he literally has like a hundred

(01:21:14):
interviews lined up, and he said, but you know, I'm
into it, but it's not gonna anytime soon. If if
that ever happens, I'll let you know so you can
like accidentally be in Atlanta. Yeah, yeah, I would love that.
I would love that. Yeah, he's he's a guy that's
like high on my list for you know, dream guests.
I would love to sit down with him. I mean,
it's no Christopher Walking talking about foot loose, right, dude.

(01:21:37):
I couldn't even listen to that. Really well, I was
so uncomfortable for you. Well you knew it was a gag, right, No,
that wasn't real. That was a guy that was Kevin Pollock.
So you thought that, well no, I just I just
saw it. It was in aprol Fool's episode. Oh okay,
because I was like, what the hell? And so then
you're like, so, I'm so nervous about this is so

(01:21:59):
I don't know if your publicists do that, and then awkward,
and then he started and it was too awkward. I
was like I was, I was so nervous for you.
I turned it off. I didn't even see the date
when it came out. That's funny. It was an April
fool thing. Kevin Pollock, the actors, is a master impressionist
and we cook that one up classic class. It's funny
because some people are fooled and some people are like,

(01:22:20):
that was the worst walking I've ever heard. I'm like,
what are you talking about? It was great? Oh dude,
this is so much fun. You got any final thoughts
on being there? No? No, I think I think we
I think we cracked it. Yeah. I think it's the
final metaphor. We are the painters of the canvas man. Nice. Uh,

(01:22:41):
you should come on again next time you come through town.
I'd like to make this a regular thing. Yeah, right on.
That fun thanks brother, Right, all right? Perfect? That was great? Yeah,
very cool. I had the questions answered to. You have
some questions? Oh hold on? Yeah? Yeah, oh wait, wait

(01:23:02):
before we go, we still recording. Uh, we gotta do
the five questions. I haven't done this with a real
guest in so long. We've been in so many like
round tables people in the office that it fell off
my radar. So what was let me see if I remember,
and what was the first movie you saw in the theater. Um,
it was funny. I had, you know, since I'm in

(01:23:24):
the States. I went and asked my mom about it,
and she says that the first movie I saw was
Herbie the love Bug Fox at the Fox, like you know,
probably in a stroller or something when it came out
when the Fox still showed movies. But I mean, this
is just how many brain cells are gone. Only the
first movie I remember seeing in a theater, um kind
of there it mixes with your second question about our movie.

(01:23:46):
I remember sneaking into d C cab Oh. Yeah, but
one like I think Bill Maher and Mr T or somebody,
isn't it like some ridiculous movies? The first time I
saw boobs on a screen and I remember that vividly.
So at TC. Yeah. Um, so that's the first movie
that I remember that I still remember on the screen.
I'm sure I saw some you know, I probably saw

(01:24:07):
Bambi or something like that that I don't remember. But
sneaking in so first R rated movie DC CAP. I
think before that, the first R rated movie I saw
was Halloween in Gatlinburg in a hotel room. Cable my cousin,
older cousin like foolishly said, Hey, we're gonna go watch
Halloween in our hotel room. Do you want to watch it?

(01:24:29):
I don't know what we were in Gatlinburg for, but
and I went sure. I didn't even know what it was.
I thought it was like a Charlie Brown special. And
I saw Halloween at whatever age it came out and
was on cable in a hotel room, and I was
afraid of the dark for years after that. Halloween really
scared the ship out of me and so so. But
I I vividly, vividly remember that. And then how were you?

(01:24:53):
I should have looked up when, you know, like I
should have done sort of a backwards but I had
to be ten, you know, maybe I would way too
young to see that. For sure. I'd have to look
at when it came out. I mean what Jamie Lee
Curtis was like Siego, so so I must have been
much younger than horror movies. Not really, My girl is
into it right now, and that was from Stranger Things

(01:25:16):
she went from because she's the same age as like
a protagonists. So I started looking up horror movies and
of course, you know, preparing for this episode, I went
and listen to Evil Dead because Evil Dead Too is
one of my favorite movies of all time. In Army
of Darkness. I used to watch that every Halloween until
Keiko just couldn't take it anymore. Like nope, because her

(01:25:37):
birthday is Halloween, and she's like, I do not want
to spend my birthday watching blood gush. Can we do
something else? She Actually, she didn't say that, but it
was I need to watch I'm I think my girl
is uh is old enough to watch it now. Now
you know, a year ago I tried to show her
Kung Fu Hustle and it was too violent for her.

(01:25:58):
This is just this. You'll be looking for order this
with Ruby when she gets within a year. She wants
to watch it with me, do you know what I mean? Scary?
Which I'm too scared. So I maybe watching some horror
movies with her if she goes in that direction. But
when I've tried to suggest something, she's like, Dad, you
don't get it. I want to watch it because it
has people my age. You know, I wanted to watch

(01:26:19):
Stranger Things because there's people my age. I don't want
to go see people stabbing each other unless there's a
thirteen year old on screen. It's like okay, alright, so
and she sounds great. Yeah, she's cool. Uh what is
number three? UM? I think it was Have you ever
walked out or would you walk out of a movie?
All right? You? Um? In general, I don't go to

(01:26:39):
the theater as much and I walk out of a
movie with you? Did? Do you remember close close? What
was it we walked out of something and went into
True Romance again? Right? Demolition Man? Demolition Man's that's the
last movie I can remember walking out of. I probably
have walked out. I didn't know if you were with me.
I remember very it was you and Chappie and maybe

(01:27:01):
maybe Clay I I can't remember, but I remember Brett
being there for sure, because I think he was the
first one that said. He was like, let's let's get
out of here, and we went and saw True Romance again.
Yeah yeah, yeah, but I mean that was that was
a great decision. So listen. I have walked out of
movies before, but I can't think of any. I think
maybe I've walked out of one that was too scary
for the kids when they were like young. Can't but

(01:27:23):
I can't even remember what it was because he were
It's weird. In like places like Malaysia and Thailand, you
will go to see Frozen and they will have a
trailer for a slasher film before it. They don't match
it up, and they don't match it up, and so
the kids would be like, we have to leave now,
and it's like, no, Frozen is not gonna be like this. Yeah.

(01:27:44):
I still remember in Chang Mai or something. But uh,
there's some movie that I that I just misjudged how
they were and I've walked out, but I can't even
remember what it is now. I remember seeing Pulp Fiction
on opening day with you guys too, and that was
such a big deal becau as the Reservoir Dogs thing
like that was. That was when Quentin Tarantino was like

(01:28:05):
an unknown or at least unknown to us. I'm sure
he was off a lot of people, but like because
of Dogs, we were all like primed for. They have
to go for this like noon showing Friday of Reserve Politician.
I think we went to go see the opening the
opening night of was it brom Stoker's Dracula together, because
well I was just a big Gary right back then.

(01:28:25):
I thought could do no wrong. So now learned that
he can do well, he's usually doing wrong to fund
some movie he wants to make himself like that. Uh.
Number four, I think is when I usually tailored to
the guest. Right, boy, what should I go with here? Then? Jinkie? Um,

(01:28:48):
all right, how about this? You're an artist? Uh? What
movie about an artist is like your favorite? That's a
good question. I've got a few that come to my
mind already, but I don't know if I like Boski
Yat the first one that came to mind that was good.
There was one about Jasper John's that Ed Harris was in.

(01:29:10):
I didn't like. I don't know he was. Oh no,
I'm Jackson Pollock. Thank you, thank you, I said Jasper John. Um.
Trying to think of some others. There's one with Willem
Dafoe doing Van Govan that I haven't seen yet. I
thought I really liked Salma hi x movie on on
Free to Carlo. But also because now I know the

(01:29:33):
whole back story. I don't know if you read that
whole piece about her experience with Harvey Kai and how
he bullied her. What did I say, poor guy? Um?
So anyway, Weinstein was, you know, such a creep. And
then but for her. To have been able to pull
that off with all of that makes me love that
movie even more. Yeah, for sure, But what are some

(01:29:54):
others I'm just maybe I'm just drawing a black baskot.
It's certainly a great one. Um. Which is the one
that uh? Or maybe I'm thinking because he is an artist,
Julian Schnabl Schnabel, but he didn't make a movie about
an artist, but his films are great. Yeah, I liked him.
I like the stuff that Berk's husband did too. He's

(01:30:17):
a he's an installation artist, really famous guy that I
can't remember his name. It's interesting. Andy Warhol has been
in a bunch of someone playing Andy Warhol has been
in a bunch of films From the Doors too. You know,
He's popped up in a lot of movies as a character,
but no one's ever really nailed a good shot. Andy
Warhol was good. But that was that where Bowie played him,

(01:30:38):
I can't remember. But that was more about the girl
who shot him than him. But um, yeah, a good
Warhol biopic would be interesting. A good Warhol biopic would
be good. Um. Maybe a question who would I want
to see? Uh? Well, a Dolly film would be great
a great Dolly film about Dolly, not you know, not Dolly,

(01:30:59):
I mean Dolly directing. I don't if you ever saw that.
That may have been some sort of clay in Jason
YouTube thing. Did you ever see Dolly's films, like the
ones he did with Disney or the ones he did
on his own, I don't think so. Dolly has this
one bit where this I don't know is this strange
little midget comes up and hands him a piece of
foil and there's like a bust of some Greek god
sitting on a piano next to him, and as he's

(01:31:21):
looking at the screen, he's literally looking at you eye
to eye, and he's fiddling with this piece of foil
in his hand and he's talking and then he just
shows it to you and he's made like a freeze, like, uh,
you know, he's made the face of the bust as
he's talking to you. It's insane. It's insane. So I
would love to see that. We actually went to his mausoleum.
It's a little bit north of Barcelona, and it's like

(01:31:42):
it's like it's a museum in itself. It's incredible. So yeah,
I would definitely like to see a movie about uh,
Dolly's life. I remember you telling me, I gotta got
so many specific memories about you from college when you
told me about when Dolly was on the Tonight Show
and he put a duck on his head and said,

(01:32:04):
Dolly is not crazy. That's right. Like I remember you
telling me that story one after it's not crazy, or
that's right, that's right. So Dolly would be great. You know,
I'd like to see a moneyball type movie about Coons,
because Coon's is a controversial guy in how he produces

(01:32:24):
his art and how he gets money. Same with Hurst,
Damien Hurst, love him or hate him? Uh, he has
he has played the art world and ways of course Banksy,
I mean, yeah, there you go. You want to talk
about art, art movies about artists, I consider Banksy and
artist and Exit to the Gift Shop. That was absolutely brilliant. Yeah,
that was great and it was funny. Actually the way

(01:32:46):
we watched that was we bootlegged it. And this this
he would have appreciate. Dutch friend of mine basically scout
scouted out um a roof in a Monte Sando in
this area of Tokyo where we used to hang out,
and so it got a projection screen and had a
screening of it on the roof on like a projection screen,
so we watched it. It was very it felt it

(01:33:09):
felt that way. We all felt like we were rebelling
in one way or another, but we had to be
quiet because it was like a residential building and nobody
knew we were up there. But it was fun. Are
you still doing stuff? You still painting or dude? I
wish I was. No. I mean, you know, I still
do some photography and try to nurture that in my
kids too. Um, I haven't done I haven't done any

(01:33:30):
real creative things for myself in a while, and I
need to remedy that. I still had that crazy chalk
that you did for me. I did one for you, Yes, dude,
you gave me one when we when we moved away. Wow,
it's like a crazy sort of fluorescent creature eating his
own hand. He's doing something. I've got it in my closet,

(01:33:51):
have kept it all these years. Next time you pull
it out, snap a shot of it and send it
to me, just I'd be curious to see what it is. Yeah,
So it's awesome. Um, and then what's your deal in
the movie theater? What do you sit, what's your routine?
Top depends on what country? Yeah, well yeah, I actually
I put different things. As far as where I sit,
I usually try to sit near the back on the aisle. Uh.

(01:34:15):
And it depends on which way the bathroom is. But
like you know, top top left center, do you know
what I mean? Where I like to be your top
right center. Um. As far as what I you know,
eat in there, it all depends on the theater. In
Japan you can bring in stuff you can just so.
I mean, I'll carry in sushi rolls and cans of beer. Um.
In Malaysia you have to buy stuff there, and they

(01:34:35):
don't have butter popcorn. They have like Earl Gray tea
flavored popcorn. Get that or else. Sneak stuff in um
then uh, Spain usually just popcorn, butter popcorn. I used
as a kid it was milk dots. But it was
all milk dots. But then now it's popcorn. In Mexico, Uh,
Mexico's theater, it's it's takis and beer. I was bring

(01:35:00):
talkies and beer, but then uh, in Japan it would
be beer in sembey that kind of stuff I just
gave you that. I just brought a few little snacks
for chap from from Japan, and I would bring a
couple of those bags. And I've only seen one movie
in a different country. Actually that's not true. I saw um,
the most recent Spike Lee movie in Australia. Um. But

(01:35:22):
I saw pulp fiction. Brett and I saw pulp fiction,
and I guess it was where was that? We were
in Vienna? All right? Okay, so we went and saw
pulp fiction in Vienna. Awesome because we just wanted a
foreign film experience, right, which wasn't a foreign film at
all of course for us. But it was interesting. Yeah, yeah,

(01:35:43):
I mean theaters they looked the same all over, you know.
I mean the theaters in in Thailand or in Spain.
You know, we're pretty much the same. The theater in Mexico.
But the rules by which people, uh you know, experience
that I think. I listened to the I forgot her name,
but your Princess Bride episode and she was talking about

(01:36:04):
how she was she was a susher and I am
a I am a shusher too. I actually just did it.
I did it when we went to go see Knives
out the Night. My kids get embarrassed. But the woman
in front of us was on her phone. I mean
she wasn't talking. No, she wasn't talking, so this isn't shushing.
But she was literally just like with her phone on

(01:36:24):
all bright and I was just leaned over. It's like,
excuse me, could you turn that off? You know, just
for an hour and a half. And my kids like,
oh god, what she did? What the lady do? She
turned it off? Okay, you know, but in in in Mexico,
it seems like every other person was doing that and
I just would give up. I would get the people
to turn it off near me. But in Taiwan ten,
you know, ten fifteen years ago, people would answer the

(01:36:47):
phone and well, I'm just in the movie, what are
you doing? So? But I think those rules are changing
but interesting. But yeah, but etiquette, movie etiquette. You know
that you still get the same uh you get. You
still get the same announcements, please turn off your please
don't talk, but you know some people take those and suggestions.
That's really interesting. Yeah, well, when you come back, we'll

(01:37:07):
have to talk more about that, because that's fascinating to me.
Sure would be great. It's like people talk, people love
movies all over the world, and I think in America
you get a very America centric mind set um. But
it's like people love movies everywhere they do. And I'll
leave you with this one fact that you know, if

(01:37:27):
you find this stuff interesting, you can't find this interesting.
When we were when we were living in Malaysia, we
lived in Penang, this all island close to the thigh
border and super fancy theaters. You know that we're freezing cold,
like you know, I literally I walked into flip flops
and I brought a fleece because it was so cold.
But uh, when movies came there, And this is advice

(01:37:47):
when people ask me about going to Malaysia if they
want to go to a movie, which we recommend, it's
a nice experience, but you need to see the movie
right away because in Malaysia they have the latest Hollywoo
with blockbusters in English. But then they also have movies
in Bajasa, they have movies in Tamil, they have movies
in uh Fukian, Chinese, in you know, Cantonese and Mandarin,

(01:38:10):
and so the turnover is so fast because language version
for like a week a week, unless it's like you know,
Star Wars or something like that, but if it's just uh,
if it's just the middle of the road blockbuster, you know,
a knives Out would stay for a week, maybe four days.

(01:38:31):
So it's like as soon as it comes, you gotta
get we gotta go, we gotta go see it. That's
so cool, awesome, all right, Well, thanks dude, Hey, my pleasure,
and we'll definitely get you back in here again. I'd
love that, all right, all right, everyone, I hope you

(01:38:52):
enjoyed that as much as I did. I hope we
did not talk too much about the old days to
the detriment of the show, but we were catching up
a little bit it and I hope you've got a
nice little peek into that. Jason, it was so good
to have him in here. I love him like a brother,
and it was so good to reconnect. And we are
going to keep in better touch from now on. We
made that pledge to each other. A lot of great
thoughts on being there. Just as I knew uh he would,

(01:39:14):
I knew he'd be a great guest because Jason has
a great taste and he is a smart dude. So
thanks Jason for coming in here. Thanks to you all
for listening, um, and we will see you next time.

(01:39:34):
Body Crush has produced, edited, and engineered by Ramsey unt
here in our home studio at Pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia.
For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.

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