Lauren Vogelbaum on Videodrome

Podcaster Lauren Vogelbaum joins Chuck to chat about 80s techno-thriller Videodrome.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.

(00:29):
Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush. Interview Friday with
Lauren Fogelbaum. Hello, bum, I don't know why, I don't
want to say fogel balm. Yeah, that's the technical German pronunciation.
So that's right. How are you doing? Oh huh, that's
a great question, I suppose. Um, it's good to see you.

(00:52):
How how are you doing. I'm fine, you know, I'm
hanging in there. I think I've gotten used to things
for the most part. Got a lot of election anxiety,
but other than that, I'm I'm well. Yeah, I had
the thing happened where my landlord of four years was
suddenly like, all right, get out in two months. Um. Oh,

(01:12):
so that's going on in the middle of this pandemic. Um,
And that's it's just fine. It's working out. Um. But
I will say that it's a level of stress that
I was not anticipating having to have. Wow, So are
you in the old place that you have to get
out of? Yes, yes, I'm currently broadcasting into my closet. Um.
Who knew that was the year all of us were
going to get back in our closets? Right? What what

(01:36):
part of town do you live in? I don't even
think I know that. Oh I'm over in Reynoldstown. Um,
kind of right by the like Edgewood shopping center sort
of area. Yeah. Yeah, looking to stay in relatively the
same the same area. Cool. Uh, you got a place
lined up yet? Or is it? That's that's the thing
that I hope to have onlock by Friday. We've we've
spent the past few days looking, uh, sort of frantically

(01:58):
at many houses with many as masks. So it's uh,
but but the looking is the fun part, like getting
to go like, oh, architecturally speaking, what happened here? Yeah,
and you know, I mean I've lived in the same
house for thirteen or fourteen years now, but we did
move out last a couple of years ago when we
renovated for like eight months, and it was it was

(02:20):
a pain in the ass, but it was kind of
like I remember moving to different apartments and like I
always kind of I mean, moving always sucks, but I
always enjoyed getting a new place and just a change
of scenery. Always liked I didn't mind moving so much. Yeah,
getting to to to remake or like reorganize your life
and and that opportunity to go through things and go like,

(02:41):
why do I have this? Get rid of that? Um, totally,
I'd like it on a more relaxed schedule. But well, yeah,
choosing to move is different than being told to leave.
I don't think I've ever been uh not kicked out,
but you know, I don't think I've ever had to
leave sooner than I wanted to. So that's a for
a deal, it is, it's it's okay, it's a It

(03:02):
was a known factor that our landlord is a real pill,
and so it's a surprise to no one that he
is being a real pill. So right, Yeah, well I'm
sorry to hear that. I hope you land in a
great place though. Oh I think I will. Good. Uh So,
if you recognize Lauren's voice, you may have listened to
her on this show when you guessed on UM, I
think it's just some Halloween episodes, right I did. I

(03:26):
did that round up um for right around Awards season,
and we talked about knives out. Oh, you weren't on
any of the Halloween episodes. No, I I think I
meant to be and then it never happened. Okay, Well,
we'll have to get you in there this year for
for Frighttober. But yeah, that's right, we talked knives out
and you also, Um, you're on a bunch of shows.

(03:47):
Why don't you just go through until everyone all the
shows you're on now because you're on a new one.
I didn't even know you were on. Oh yeah yeah,
I almost didn't know that I was on that one
for a minute. Um. Yeah. So so, um, I'm on
the short form um saw show brain Stuff. It's just
like five to seven minutes of general science topics every
day of the week. Uh that won't die yea. Yeah,

(04:10):
it's been running for thirteen years now. Um. It was
originated by Marshall Brain, who I'm pretty sure that's his
real name. Is that his real name? That's his real name? Gosh,
what a thing? Anyway, Yeah, um, so I'm I'm hosting
that one now. I'm also with um a frequent uh
guest of yours on movie Crush here, Annie Reese. Um,

(04:32):
she's we're co hosts on a show called Savor, which
is a we're conversational Oh thank you man. I think
it's great too. Like we have we have a lot
of fun, Like we're we're covering like the science and
culture and history of foods. But um, but yeah, Annie
and I just have a have an absolute blast. Um.
And uh. Then the new one that I'm I'm doing

(04:55):
right now is called American Shadows, and that's with um
the Grim and Mild, headed up by Aaron Minky, and
it's about dark, true stories from from American history. I
think the team wanted to focus on stuff that happened
in America and that kind of highlights how you know,
they're they're like wild, desperate times that we cover. But

(05:18):
but there's like truth and justice always prevail. So despite
it being like a murder show, it's really comforting to
work on right now. Yeah, how long has that one
been out? Only since mid sept What what month are
we in? Where are you when we just we just
crossed over into September. Okay, Labor Day weekend coming up?

(05:41):
Uh uh it launched and it launched in a in
in mid August. Um. So there's only a couple of episodes. Yeah, yeah,
it's it's once every other week. Um, just a just
a real tight thirty minutes show scripted. Um. The excellent
Miranda Hawkins is doing the editing on that one, and
and her cool, her storytelling through um, the soundtrack and

(06:03):
just through the way that she edits the pieces together.
Um is really beautiful. So oh man, well that's great,
Miranda is awesome. Uh. I gotta check that out because
I heard the promos and it just sounds really cool
and it sounds like a cool new show, like that's
that's big, big time A list stuff. Oh yeah, yeah
it is. It is. So I was as surprised as
anyone when when Aaron tapped me for it. Um, but

(06:27):
I get to do. I get to do like my
serious creepy voice and like use a lot of vocal fry,
so it's fun. Yeah. Well, I mean you have one.
Just as far as vocal qualities go, I think you
have one of the best voices for this in our company. Um,
we all kind of fell into it, but you, I
think had a real knack for it from the beginning. UM.
I can't say the same for like Josh and I

(06:48):
are who we are, but you're just a pro voiceover person.
At this point, I feel like, oh, thank you for
saying so. UM. I mean I think that that any
any um technical vocal quality that that I possess, but
it's balanced out by my just shattering anxiety overperforming every

(07:08):
single day. So like, yeah, yeah, y'all, y'all are not
not every single day. I'm fine. It took me about
three years, um to be honest, to not be like
pit sweating every time I went into the studio, UM,
and y'all seem to come at it so naturally, and
I'm really envious of that. Like I feel like I
just have these conversations in my head with how conversations
on Mike could go every time I go in if

(07:31):
especially if I'm like like, I'm like nervous talking to
you because I'm not used to doing it, so you know,
so I'm just like, God, anything could happen. It's not well,
it's certainly I'm not Annie, I'm not. I wish i
was any Uh. It certainly doesn't come through you. You're
fantastic and your shows are great. So thank you what
you're great. Hush up, I'm like, oh, thank you, daddy,

(07:55):
chuck like that, Oh daddy, that that sounds that sounds wrong.
I'm gonna let's I'll just ignore that. I said that. Cool,
big brother, So we I wanted to get you in
here for a solo effort and We've been wanting to
do this for a long time, and it just sort
of I think COVID happened, and then um, I fell

(08:19):
into a rhythm of having a certain group on. Then
I was like, wait a minute, I haven't had I
haven't had you on a long time, and I haven't
had actually haven't had any on it in a long time.
Because I think she moved to she she did not
she she's still in the same place. But um, but
I think that being a lot more certainly like a
lot more extroverted than I am, like she she had

(08:39):
like a major mental shift that might might be called
to move. Okay, gotcha. So um, when it came time
to pick a movie, you were, like every person who's
ever come this show had a little anxiety about it
because it's tough. Um, you get do overs though, so
you don't. You didn't have to really stress about like

(08:59):
you can come back on the show. It didn't have
to be the one and only movie. But what if
I mess up the first one and then you're just like, oh,
that guy, not that guy, anything but that guy. No. Uh.
I think your list of movies was interesting, So tell
tell them about the few that you didn't that we
didn't go with Alright, they might show up later, Yeah, sure,

(09:20):
sure so um so, so I sent you this list
and then I realized afterwards that it was probably more
um self revelatory than I completely intended it to be. Um.
I just rattled off. I was like, I don't know,
like what what are What could I possibly say is
my favorite movie? Like a like Ghostbusters or maybe like
The Witch? Like The Witch was so good or or

(09:42):
I don't know, Beetlejuice or Video Drome or The Fifth Element. Um,
all great films. Yes, Um, I'm I think the pattern
here is that like like, yeah, I'm like a spooky bitch,
um and that's that's what's going on. Well, that's cool,
that's that's a good one to be. Um. We we

(10:02):
we could have you know. I think eventually we'll probably
just tackle most of these. UM will just have you
back and well, and I know we're gonna do The
Witch sometime October this year. We'll have you back for
that for sure. But we definitely should do Fifth Element.
That's a movie I haven't seen in a long time.
But we ended up going for this one with Video
trom which is a movie from written and directed by

(10:26):
David Cronenberg, kind of one of his first bigger movies,
even though it didn't perform well, but the first movie
where he had some kind of Hollywood backing. Um, after
a series of really weird under the radar movies, say
this isn't weird. Oh quite quite the opposite. Yeah. I

(10:46):
think it's the first film that he had studio involvement
with from the get go um, and with Universal, which
was a pretty conservative studio at the time, So he
was real confused about it. I get the feeling. Yeah,
he probably still is, and you and whoever greenlit this
is probably still confused. Uh. It has all the hallmarks
of UM of a David David Cronenberg movie, which is

(11:09):
to say, uh, body horror, obviously, um technology, technology, and
the body becoming one. Um. I don't have you ever
seen existence? Yeah? Yeah, I feel like that was sort
of had some of the DNA of video drome in it. Yeah,
it's sort of like a I the first term that
popped into my head was classier, like a classier version

(11:32):
of a video drone. But but I don't think that
I don't know, like like a little bit less um
offensive on purpose? Maybe, Yeah, a little less schlocky. I
mean this, this is sort of a video drum, sort
of a B movie. Uh, and obviously we sa people
like I say that as a term of endearment and
not as a slag. Um. It did not do well

(11:53):
in the theaters because I imagine it's a cult classic now.
But I'm trying to I was trying to imagine when
I was watching it today what people in n thought
of this thing. Sure, and I mean, like it comes
off as being a little bit prophetic when you watch
it now, but at the time, I mean it's also
um so so I was I was watching the director's commentary,

(12:16):
Um to care for for this? Are you? Are you
a human who likes watching a director's commentary? Well, I'm
a human. He used to do that a lot when
I was buying DVDs and had more time in life
and not a child. But I haven't done that in
a long time. But I miss it. I do love commentaries. Yeah. Well,
I had to figure out how to play a DVD.
Um in order to do it. The answer was that

(12:38):
I had a PS two like in a box in
my closet and that worked out right. Um but but
but so yeah, so I was watching this commentary and uh,
and he was saying that he didn't know the script
was not finalized and he didn't know the plot as
they were shooting it. Really, and I think it shows well,

(13:00):
I mean, I'm glad you said that, because it is. Uh.
It is a movie that is that is great in
a lot of ways, but also meanders a little bit.
And I think it feels like it has trouble figuring
out its own point of view a little bit. Yeah,
it does, it does, and I do think that in
some ways it's it's one of those films that isn't

(13:21):
necessarily an exercise and um, you know, crafting a a
taught plot line. Um, it's like not a knives out
kind of situation, Um, but sort of polar opposites there.
But um, but it is very aware of the textures
it's using in the kind of philosophy that it's building, Um,

(13:42):
even if it had to sort of talk itself through
the process as it goes. But I will say, this
is an eighty nine minute film and it feels like
it goes on for three hours. Yeah, I mean, it
is a pretty tight eighty nine but it does it
meanders a little bit. Um, I do know what you mean, though,
Like I think part of the likability of this movie
isn't um necessarily the plot, uh it is it is textureized,

(14:05):
and it is um sort of a feel in a mood.
Um it's unsettling. Um I imagine in in nineteen I
mean it's unsettling now. And like you said, so much
of this stuff was way, way, way, way way before
it's time. But um, I'm trying. I think I saw
it when I was younger. There's no way I saw
it when I was twelve. Oh I hope not. No,

(14:27):
I was not seeing movies like this. I was like
eating and the Goonies. Boy. Um, but I know I
saw it. I think I probably saw it in college
on vhs, like probably when I worked at a video
stores when I saw it. Oh. Yeah, I'm glad that
you bring that up, because I was going to ask
you if you remember the first time that you saw
it or like the first time ish and like how

(14:47):
you felt about it at the time. Yeah. I mean
there was a time in college where I worked at
this great video store and where I really got turned
onto stuff like this, and I remember scanners and video
home being you know, my first two Croninberg movies and
becoming a fan and just I don't know much about
the guy, like what makes him tick. Uh. He's always

(15:10):
sort of been like a David Lynchy in figure to
me as far as a true Um, it's just unique
voice in cinema, you know. Uh, yeah, I am. I
also watched it for the first time in college. Um
and uh, I think for a class because I was
an English major taking some really weird classes. I think

(15:32):
this this one I watched for a class called Psycho
Cinema Analysis. Um. So very very much into Freud and
very much into movies that play with that kind of
kind of imagery and also with with technology, and so
this was sort of like like I'm pretty sure that
the dude doing the class like watch this movie and
was like, dude, what if I do a whole class

(15:54):
about this? Um I could totally see that. Yeah, and
well and and like my reaction was just like I didn't, like,
I don't think that I knew that you could make
a movie like this. I was like, you can make
a movie like that, like something that's just so bat
ship but also so culturally relevant. Yeah. I mean it

(16:18):
opens with the introduction of Civic TV, which is the
TV station that James Woods runs. And even that opening
bit where he has the lady talking about your schedule
for the day and all that. I mean that that's
Alexa or Google Home or whatever. It's nuts to think about. Absolutely,

(16:39):
um and and just the and just how um, I
don't know, like like oppressive it manages to be in
a completely cheerful way. Uh. Just the slogan UM for
the TV station I think is um the one you
take to bed with you. And I'm like, who right, Yeah,
it's it's supposed to be comforting, but somehow it is

(16:59):
not not at all, not not especially given everything else
that happens in this movie. Yeah, well we'll get to
that good lord. Um. It's also a movie that reminded
me how much I used to, um love James Woods.
I mean such a creep. Now Uh it's it's hard
to kind of unknow that stuff, but he was always

(17:21):
so good at playing a creep and a slee's ball. Um.
Just I mean one of one of the great actors
I think from back then, if given the right role.
Absolutely and he um. And he's so he's so good
in this movie. He um, He's just he's so funny.
Um like his his physical he brings his physicality to

(17:42):
the role that um, that is clearly important for for
a lot of the kind of action sequences, but but
also just these little moments of physical comedy where he's
kind of just a little twitchy. Um. Yeah, there's the
moment where he goes into the uh spectaclecular optical office
for the first time, and he tries on those goofy

(18:03):
looking glasses and kind of gives himself a look in
the mirror, and you know, that was pure James Wood's
probably just doing a little improv to bit there. And
there are a couple of little lighter moments like that
that uh and and moments where I wonder, like Cronenberg
is so weird. But there are moments too where I
wonder if Cronenberg is has his tongue in cheek a

(18:26):
little bit. I I think he. I think he pretty
firmly does, or like that's that's the idea that I get,
because it doesn't come off like like the fact that
there are so frequently that he does so frequently cast
um these actors who are a little bit weirder and
more cerebral in like less um you know, like like
classic Hollywood, and the fact that he does so frequently

(18:49):
incorporate these small moments of humor to to offset the horror. Um.
I think it's a super important balance in any horror film. Um.
And any comedy film really like you know, goes both ways.
But um uh yeah, and and and for this apparently
as they were making up the script and the plot, um,
James Woods would come up with a bunch of ideas

(19:10):
and and they would wind up going with him. Now,
what what is you listen to the commentary? What is
Cronenberg like when he's talking about this stuff? Is he
like self serious or is he kind of uh like,
how does he view this this stuff? Now? Uh? He
said so. So the commentary is on the criterion edition
of the film. And uh oh so I'm not sure

(19:32):
when the DVD would have come out, but I imagine
a decade or two ago. And uh and he said
that he, in preparation for it, had watched the film
for the first time in like twenty five years. UM.
And and his his his manner is is very scholarly

(19:52):
in a way. Um, It's it's very much he's very
much into the philosophy of of what he's talking about,
although I don't think that he would term it like that,
Like I think that he would find that pretentious and
would try to avoid it. But um, but he talks
so much in that commentary about Marshall mclauchan um, who
are you familiar with? Yeah, Yeah, dude who wrote this

(20:14):
book called Understanding Media in sixty four, Yeah, and famously
coined the phrase the medium is the message and U.
And one of the things that Cronenberg talks about at
length is how the character um Brian Oblivion is pro
professor oblivion, oh period oblivion, the punt. We need to

(20:35):
talk about the puns in this film. But that's a
threat over here. Uh. And that's another reason why I like,
I don't think that this dude is taking himself too seriously,
Like I think that he takes matter seriously. But I
think he's having fun. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, there's
no way he Yeah, I think it's I think it
borders on satire at times a little bit, Yeah, without

(20:57):
being like super overtly satirical, not like Paul Verehoven, which
we've been watching, like Paul and I did Starship Troopers,
Robot Coop, like that's straight up satire. But I think
this sort of plays around with it the tone of
satire a little bit, which is super cool. I think. Yeah, yeah, Uh.

(21:22):
There's another good quote in this movie too that um,
there's a couple of creepy quotes that are very relevant today.
Is one from Professor Oblivion where he says the television
screen has become the retina of the mind's eye. I
mean ship that was three and that might as well
be like the slogan for modern day society. Yes. Uh.

(21:44):
And then James Woods has a line sort of as
the video drome, kind of early in the movie when
he's looking at these essentially snuff films and getting judged
for watching them, and he says, you know, better on
TV than in the streets. And it's an interesting quote

(22:05):
because this character I think, I think he thinks he's
moral in a way. Yeah, because he's um, he's letting
people uh get you know, experience these these these dark thoughts,
these darker desires, um, these more dangerous um things without
actually going out and participating in them. Yeah. And like

(22:28):
Debbie Harry, he he By the way, Debbie Harry is
in this movie from Blondie amazing, and she's she's been
in a few films, but um, she's you know, a classic.
But she he tries to keep her from doing this stuff,
like she clearly, I mean, once we learned kind of
what she's doing that that becomes part of the plot.
But at first you just think she has certain kinks

(22:50):
and sexual fetishes, and he tries to keep her from
doing these things like now, you shouldn't cut yourself, you
shouldn't do these things. Um. For someone who's running something
like Civic TV, I thought it was an interesting balance. Yeah,
it's a little bit. It's a little bit sweet, like
because he's he's clearly like a little bit of a creepizoid.
But at the same time he's going like, oh no,

(23:11):
like don't want to hurt you, and she's like, what,
like this is fun? Is fun? Like she's way more
hardcore than he is, Like he's a bit of a
coward actually yeah yeah, and she sort of winds up
bringing him into it. Um and I and I love
that again, especially being able to have that dynamic between
a man and a woman on screen and and have
the woman be the one who even though she's she's

(23:34):
the masochist in the Santa masochistic relationship of theirs for
the most part. Um, she's she's very much in control.
Most of the time. I can never remember which is which.
The massochist is the one getting receiving the okay right,
yeah yeah, and the sadist is the one giving it.

(23:55):
That's why I never took to it. People are like, Chuck,
you're not doing it, Like I always forget. Just give
me a note, just tape it to my forehead. I
don't know. Uh. Yeah. Another quote when they're just start
starting out their their relationship there on this first date
where they're in his apartment and she's flipping through a

(24:17):
box of U of Beta Max tapes because Beta Max
is this entire movie is about, which I love. Uh.
She's like, oh what about this one? This? What about
this one labeled video drone that looks interesting? Um? Is it?
Is it porn um? And he's like, well, it ain't
exactly sex And she's like says who, And I'm like, yeah, interesting,

(24:40):
it's a it's a definitely there's a point of view
in here that big time movies did not explore, Like
there was no precedent for this film. Uh. And I'm
sure when the executives at Universal got the first cut,
they were just like, what the fuck is are we
doing here? Can we even release this? I'm sure they
have those conversations. Oh, I'm sure. Well, and um and

(25:03):
the the m P A A or or the Canadian equivalent,
I'm not sure what it is, but yeah, apparently during
that time, UM, they would just literally take your print
and they would cut what they didn't want out of it,
and that's the print that would wind up circulating. Um.
And it was kind of a lot of those scenes

(25:24):
have been put back in since then. UM And I
think I don't know if the film was in release
long enough and it was on a physical print, you know,
it's not like these digital times when you can just
for no money just throw prints everywhere. But ye, well
that's crazy. I can't imagine handing over the editing keys
to a ratings board, right, especially the keys of something

(25:46):
like this. I know, it's like they wouldn't. I'm surprised
it wasn't sixty minutes long they did. Uh. He talks
about them cutting some some very specific um uh pieces
that you know, like like, while not integral to the plot,
sure are our integral to the to the mood and

(26:06):
the feel of the piece and are not obscene. Um,
you know that this is a very uncomfortable movie to
watch in a room full of people. I think, um,
which I love, but but it's also um yeah, it's
it's just a it's a it's a mood. It's a
mood it is, and it's a movie with um full

(26:26):
of practical effects. Obviously if it's three, you're not gonna
have UM C G I or anything. And some of
it looks pretty good still. I thought all the um,
I thought all the TV stuff where things were coming
out of the TV screen, I think that stuff really
still looks fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, when the TVs are like
breathing and and James is physically interacting with them, um

(26:50):
uh yeah, those are those are beautiful. There's there's one
one scene where, um where he's touching the top of
the television and it's kind of breathing and these veins
pop out, and it gets me every time. I'm like,
oh cool, um yeah ends up in that manner. Yeah,
in in some scenes, In some scenes it's definitely like

(27:10):
you can you can it gets it gets a little
bit cheesy. Um, but um that it was Rick Baker
doing those effects. Um, and okay, I kind of figured
it was. Yeah, and this was right after he had
just done um, an American Werewolf in London, and so
like like, what a what a wonderful time to get
a Rick Baker on your side. Yeah, absolutely kind of.

(27:32):
Uh he was on the leading edge kind of as
a young artist back then. Uh. And you know how
much fun I used to I think my brother and
I went with your Little Wood. Um, we're sort of
obsessed with this kind of gore and thought that we
both wanted to get into being like special effects people.
Me too, Yeah, I mean it's like, what's what's more

(27:53):
fun than like making a head explode or making a
stomach of vagina? You know, we had to go there
at some point, right, Oh yep, yep. There's definitely a
torso vagina, and it definitely plays heavily in this film. Yeah,
I mean, let's talk about it. That's one of the
central most memorable parts of this movie is this recurring

(28:16):
bit where James Woods has a an opening in his
chest stomach cavity that uh, very intentionally looks like a vagina.
I think, oh, yeah, that is not David Gronenberg makes
no accidents. When torso vagina, there's a gun put in

(28:39):
there and that disappears there, Uh, meaty breathing videotapes put
in there. Uh, an arm is sort of stripped or
degloved maybe yeah, yeah, yeah. Other people like like he
he self inserts things and then other people kind of
more forcefully insert things into him. Um and yeah. And

(29:02):
then there's that scene at the end with the where
where the hand gets stripped. There he's got a torso
vagina dentata totally and uh gosh, speaking of pens, when
when that when that dude who gets his hand eating
pulls his hand back out, it's a literal hand grenade. Yeah.

(29:27):
I don't think I quite picked up on that, You're right,
because yeah, then he's he's like, oh no, there's this
grenade that's my hand now, and then he blows up,
and so I I don't I don't understand. That's great,
But every single time, I mean, it's effective, Like David
Cronenberg wants to make you squirm, he wants to set

(29:48):
a mood that is very uncomfortable. And there's not a
single time that that chess cavity opens up and someone
reaches in there that it doesn't make me squirm it
it is extraordinary, really uncomfortable. Um and partially because at
first it's so goofy um and you want to laugh
at it. But then but then it's really not goofy

(30:10):
like it it's so unsettling um and uh. And also
just such a rare visual occurrence to to to come
across um that you know, outside of like pornography, Um,
to see something like that on a screen. And and
so it's just like who um and I feel like yeah,

(30:32):
like like you could you could go unpack the American
psyche's reaction to looking at vaginas for a very long time. Um,
Like we don't have time for that today, or we
could do a whole series on that. Um. What what
Cronenberg says in the commentary, Um, the first time that
somebody else reaches into James Woods, um is he's getting

(30:55):
sucked by television, which I think everybody is. Yeah, I
mean laugh But that's that's sort of the message here,
is that in the plot is that TV is is
replacing like they talked about the physical body dying and
you're becoming part of video drome, I guess, yeah, And
skipping forward to the to the end of the film.

(31:16):
I keep wanting to be like spoiler alert, but I
think that that's understood. Um uh um. You know, he
James Wood's character winds up killing himself because he can't
deal with this this self destructive uh. And that's the thing.
I think it's self destructive. I think that the the
like moral message of this movie is not that television

(31:40):
um makes us violent, but that it makes us self destructive. Yeah.
And I also feel like there's a little bit of
a message of um of a beware what road you're
about to go down? Thing? Uh And he's even literally
warned by that woman at first, Like the video drum
is something you want to get involved in. But and
and sort of the classic fable I guess of the

(32:02):
forbidden Fruit or the unknown and like that's not a
door you want to walk through, but there are some
people that are attempted to walk through it. And that
is this character. Oh yeah, this character is tempted by
everything and indulges in everything. Um and and it's very
very human um through that. Yeah. And you know, for
the first half hour or so, it's sort of up

(32:23):
until that first plot point, it's it's a movie you
think is about this guy that stumbles upon this sort
of snuff film syndicate. Maybe, And it's not until you
get that that first videotape coming alive and sort of
pulsing and breathing that, and of course this is like

(32:44):
you didn't know who David Cronenberg really was that much
at this point, like now, audiences are just like, well,
although he he has changed his tune and some of
the movies he made in later years aren't like this.
But generally you go to a Cronenberg movie, you're waiting
on the body horror and this kind of weird is
to come out. Yeah, yeah, the Fly, after the Fly,
it was all over. Um, you can't year was the Fly?

(33:08):
Actually that was? I want to Oh, I'm not sure.
Maybe eight sight seven or was it all the way
in the nineties. I have a bad concept of time.
It wasn't it was eighty six, so I think it
was probably the movie right after this one. Yeah, there
may have been one in between, but it's what the
point is. It's what you had come to expect from Cronenberg.

(33:28):
But back then you're sitting in the theater, You're watching
this movie like weird, this guy stumbled upon this snuff
film syndicate and he runs a TV station and then
all of a sudden, just the wheels fly off of
this thing and very quickly. Um and uh. And that's
that's another thing that I that I just love about this.
I mean, like like I always love a practical effect.

(33:48):
I always love some good body horror. Um. But but
the framing of it as it of just being stuck
in James Wood's characters, um, hallucination and and increasingly not
good hallucination um and and just completely committing to it
and like not taking a step back by like I

(34:10):
don't know, like putting a filter on it or like
shooting it wide or you know, you know, through different
lens or whatever. Um and and and as the viewer
like like that hoof like that that's part of why
it's so unsettling, because you're you're given this universe where
everything is real and everything just keeps being real, but
but with you know, breathing television sets. Yeah. Yeah, it's

(34:34):
it's one of those movies that, um, you're never quite
sure what reality is and what's not. It really plays
with that notion of the hallucinations versus reality and um
even from the early moment where he uh, in a
very eighties movie style like halls off and slaps that
lady he works with and it's also Debbie Harry for

(34:55):
a minute and he slaps her again and then he's like,
I'm sorry for slapping and she's like, you didn't slap me.
What do you talk and about? Yeah? Yeah, hoof. I
wasn't even sure because it had been a long time
since I've seen this, so I wasn't even sure what
was real and what wasn't at this point. Yeah. I
don't think I ever have been until until I listened
to that director's commentary and he pretty explicitly lays out

(35:18):
that like that, yeah, like all of the weird stuff
is total hallucination. Um uh. And you know, um, some
of the effects of those hallucinations are are real. Like
James Woods does or is the dude didn't? His character
does shoot some people, but um, you know, not with
a meat gun. Well let's talk about that too, because

(35:41):
what's a good torso vagina without a good mate gun?
Am I right? That's a quote for all ages, um
or all of for the ages, not for all ages. Yeah,
that that when the gun becomes a part of his body.
And uh, that's another great special effects sequence. And I
couldn't help but think that like a really cool deep

(36:04):
cut cosplay would be um that gun hand coupled with
the really cool like Oculus rift um head helmet thing.
Like if I ever saw someone do that, I would
just be like, props to you, because that is like
one of the cool deep cuts. Absolutely and that oh
that helmet too is amazing. This is three like like

(36:26):
it looked so good and uh and and so creepy
and I love that we get a little a little
moment of like of like sixteen bit Debbie Harry in there. Um,
I mean it was straight up VR, you know it.
It's crazy like years before that was even a thing. Yeah,
years before I mean, uh, what was the what was

(36:47):
the thing with the with with the the game boy
VR thing? Even like it was years before that. Yeah, yeah,
this was And David Cronenberg might have invented VR for
all I know. I'm gonna look that up. Actually, for
all I know that he should get credited. He should
get some money from Oculus reft. He should. He should
They should at least like put in small print somewhere

(37:09):
on every headset, like like thanks David. The meat gun though,
and he did this in Existence and some of his
other movies. There's this like meaty, fleshy quality of his
special effects that is just so gross. Yeah, it's it's
every everything is kind of um, kind of sheeny. It's

(37:30):
it's all it's all moist um. So you're triggering a
lot of people right now, and and and it's all
vainy and it it is. It gets um. There are
I think maybe like three different versions of the meat
gun that did show up, And the first one is
very technological, and the second one is very just penile,

(37:52):
just very straight up fleshy, and the third is kind
of a blend between the two. Um. And and I'm
sure that there was a secific thought process into doing that,
into him him becoming this piece of technology that's being used. Yeah. Yeah,
And and it gets bigger and bigger too. And by
the by the time he's at that last one, when
he goes to the Spectacular Optical conference, which by the way,

(38:16):
is an amazing scene. It is such a trip. I
want David Cronenberg to design all of my corporate experiences forever.
Oh my god, can you imagine like he's gonna he's
gonna do your corporate conference. We got Cronenberg. Should be
should be pretty cool. No, it's amazing to look at
that dance sequence is so great and so eighties. But

(38:39):
by the time he gets there with his gun hand,
it's like it's so disturbing. It's really big, and it's
just you can't even see where the gun ends and
his body and his arm begins. It's so disturbing. Yeah. Oh,
and then that that terrific um uh in multiple meanings
of the word uh death sequence of um. Oh. What's

(39:01):
the character's name? It's another terrible pun, very convex um
played by Leslie Carson, who played Deep Throat in The
X Files. Okay, I knew, I knew that face. Yeah,
he's a Canadian character actor who who has done a
lot of great things. But um, but but yeah, just
just real good at being kind of similarly just sort

(39:24):
of like like slimy, just like just like, oh, like
I don't think I like that guy, yeah, but like
very subtly sort of like the guy, the guy that
walks in with a suit on, he smiling, and you're like,
did you just kill someone? Are you? Are you happy?
Or did you have a nice meal? Yeah? Yeah, did
you have a nice scream? Or was it murder? Yeah?
I knew, I knew that guy's face X files. It's

(39:45):
totally it. Yeah. Um and oh yeah, and then and
then write like just just all the this, like cancer
just comes bubbling up out of him because there there
is that that that theme that the reason that James
Wood's character is having these hallucinations is that, um, watching
video drame, as it turns out, creates brain tumors that

(40:05):
create hallucinations. Um. And technically that's the plot. I mean,
I think this is a movie that serves you well
if you do, UM, maybe just a little brief read

(40:28):
up about kind of what because it can be a
little hard to follow at times. And this is and
I'm not a big proponent of remaking movies, but this
is a movie I could see, like, I could see
the right director doing it justice with sort of more
modern technology. If they didn't if they kept a sort
of spirit of the first one in the tone and

(40:50):
didn't make it super flashy, I could see it being
a little tighter and more straightforward plot wise. But boy,
it's such a fine line between that and like completely
ruining it. Yeah, and so in so many moments in
it that I that I think are are so perfect
are really awkward, And I think that that's part of
what lends that general unsettling vibe to the film. Um,

(41:15):
I don't know. Yeah, you're never sure who is telling
the truth. And I'm a big fan of those movies
where there's some kind of central secret and you don't
know that the central character doesn't know when they're being
lied to, and neither does the audience, and you're you're
left at the end kind of kind of with that
same feeling. Yeah, dude, I don't like. I was thinking

(41:36):
about this after I sent you that email, and I
was like, I don't do I know what Video Drome
is about. It's kind of one of those movies. Well
it's like and not only what it's about plot wise,
but I found myself at times going like, what's the
message here? Because I know there is a message. I
don't think it's just shock and horror, because Cronenberg's always

(42:00):
had a lot more going on than that. It's cerebral guy,
but um, I don't know. I kind of struggle with
figuring it out. Um that that's that's one that I
get like like, I don't think I really put together
until I was just watching this commentary, because a lot
of the commentary is is UM. Is Cronenberg talking about
that censorship that he experienced UM, not only on this

(42:20):
film but on previous films, and UM talking about how
infuriating it was UM because you know, he'd be talking
about these these sensors taking offense to something and and
taking it out for for no objective reason. UM, and
just gross right right there, just grossed out by it.
So it goes UM. And and he was talking about that,

(42:44):
and he was talking about this UM, this kind of
pop psych concept that especially I think in in the
eighties we definitely UM. A lot of society was buzzing
about UM, about UM violence on television causing violence and
communities and and Cronenberg. I think that this whole movie

(43:05):
is essentially just him going like like, oh, you think
that you think the TVs caused violence? What if it
literally did? Let's explore that. Let's let's take a look
at that and what that would actually look like UM,
And get rich Baker on the line, and yeah, I
think maybe you're right, is uh. And that's where I

(43:26):
failed in not going back in time to nine when
this when this seriously though, when the movie was made, Like,
if you're looking for the message, you can't really look
for it in although it's still super relevant in that
and and and and also, um, you know, realizing because
we we I'm sure we talked about this in class,

(43:48):
because I know that I've read McLuhan in that same class.
I was talking about um where we watched this film,
but um uh hearing Cronenberg talk about how much of
an influence McLuhan is on him, um and and is
on this character oblivion is I don't know. I think
that in this film he's riffing on the medium is

(44:10):
the message and kind of turning it back on itself
and saying like, well, but we are also the medium.
Um right, Long live the New flesh. Long Live the
New flesh. I mean there it is oh so gross.
I know that that'd be that'd look good on a
T shirt. Actually, let's do it. We have the technology.

(44:32):
Some people would understand it, and some people would just
be like, man, I'm like, you want to keep people
away from you during the times of coronavirus? Just solid
that is six ft minimum minimum. Yeah, there's something about
the word flesh even that's just evocative and kind of interesting.
And I'm sure every art department production meeting Coronaberg ever

(44:54):
had in his life use the word flesh, Like, what
does she look like? More fleshy, more fleshy? Could it
be flush here? What I was thinking of here was flush? Yeah,
like that's flushy, but I really want something flush here.
I mean, he's a treasure. I love his later movies.
I don't know if you saw History of Violence and

(45:15):
what was the other great one? Uh with Viga Mortenson? Oh?
Oh heck? Um, I have not. Um. I'm much more
familiar with his earlier work. Um I. And I was
asking myself earlier, like like, why haven't I seen more
of his films? And I feel like I'm like saving them.
I'm like saving them for like some specific time when
I la, You're right, I'm not going anywhere else. What

(45:39):
is the other? One? Is driving me crazy? And I
usually don't look up stuff, but Crash was did you
ever see Crash? Who? Um? I saw? Okay, I have
not seen all of Crash. I saw it around the
same time that I watched Video dram like maybe a
little bit after and uh, and I think I got
through about twenty minutes of the film and I just
went like, all right, um, well, I have reached my

(46:00):
lifetime capacity for wound sucking. That's it. That's that's what
it was. I wasn't a huge fan. I mean, obviously
The Flies a classic dead zone. I'm looking over his filmography.
Naked Lunch amazing. Um, existence was so creepy and weird. Oh,
Eastern Promises with the was the other. I would recommend
History of Violence and Easter Promises. Those are both great.

(46:21):
And I have not seen Because Mopolus yet, but I've
heard that's awesome too. I'm I'm sure I oh right,
right right, yeah, Robert Pattinson, who knew? Um right? Have
you have you seen The Lighthouse? Did you like the Lighthouse?
I love The Lighthouse. I thought it was amazing, very
divisive movie. It is it is No, I loved it too,

(46:43):
But for sure that was a film that I I like.
Saw it midtown Art cinema and like stumbled out of
um and it was daylight outside, which was jarring um
and just like kept just kept stumbling straight into the
Highlander and just ordered whiskey, and I was like, this
is the only way that I know how to cop rate.
I've done that many times over the years. That we

(47:05):
got a great movie theater in Atlanta, which just got
a an old school bar right next door to it. Yeah,
very conveniently located. Yes, Yes, both are really excellent places
to be. I saw the Lighthouse on a beautiful spring
day in New York City and did the same thing
and came out and it was just one of those
days where everyone was out and I was like, I
don't I don't even know what to do now, like disoriented. Yeah,

(47:31):
and in the best way, um or or a best way,
maybe not the best way. Looking back though, on his filmography,
exist Ends, I think it's the last really Croninbergie weird.
Although I didn't see Spider that looks like it might
have been pretty weird too. I think I think it

(47:51):
was from what I've heard, I've not seen that one either.
I haven't seen anything from after Existence. I don't think. Yeah,
I saw Existence in the movie. I was I need
to revisit that one. I don't think i've seen it
since then. That was a good movie. Yeah, I definitely
haven't watched that in like fifteen years. So you got
anything else on on this gym Um, can we talk

(48:12):
about some more puns here? Um. So so even Debbie
Harris's character is named Nicki Brand um, and the last
name brand is because of the cigarette scene, the cigarette
branding scene. Oh yeah, yeah, she burns her chest. She
burns her chest with a cigarette. Um. And then it's

(48:33):
implied that probably James Woods does the same, he smells
the cigarette after she burns it. Yeah. Yeah. And the
name Nikki is because of the cuts on her shoulder
in the first Niki Brand did not even pick up
on that. I would not have either in the commentary

(48:57):
kind of proudly Yeah, He's like I was making dad
jokes when I was in my late thirties. Yeah yeah,
and uh oh man, there's so many amazing just naming
conventions and the Catherine Ray mission being yeah that was
pretty church um. And then I still can't get over

(49:17):
spectacular optical. I just keep saying it in my head
and going like, oh, that's a band name if I
ever heard one. Oh, I am not musically uh inclined,
but I want to I want to be in that band.
You can be in a fake band perfect, just that
that would be the cosplay is a band called Spectacular

(49:39):
Optical and you're all wearing those video drum headsets with
gun gun meat meat a gun hands. I would love
to see that at Yeah, if we ever get Dragon conback. Sure.
Oh I know that was going to be this weekend.
I guess right. Yeah, yeah, all of my all of
my friends are posting like, should be drunk, not in

(50:02):
my home right now? I should be dressed up and drunk.
Well I am, but just not in my living room
but not here. Yeah that's a bummer. Yeah, yeah, hey, no,
there's there's there's great. My cat is really excited about
this whole thing. He's like she's home every time. The
lap is right there. Yeah. My animals are are pretty

(50:24):
excited too. It's been a lot of togetherness, Lauren. I
can't say too much. It's been It's been cool in
a way. Yeah, that's it's. Hey, it's gonna end someday
and in the meanwhile, we are all learning a lot
about ourselves and that's a good journey to go on.
That's right. Long Live the New Flesh, Live the New Flesh. Well,

(50:49):
thanks for picking video drum. It was fun to go
back and watch that one, and um, I'm gonna I
think I'm gonna try and check out the director's commentary.
I want to see what that's all about. Yeah yeah,
If you need to borrow the DVD end a PS two, Um,
I'm here for you. I gotta, I gotta p S three.
So I think so in a box somewhere. Uh, and
we'll have you back to talk about the Witch and

(51:10):
maybe we'll do uh we could eat the round table
that or we'll just do another horror horror round table
and you can jump in on that too. Yeah. Great,
I'd love to anytime. Thank you so much for having
me on. All right, we'll hang in there you too.
We'll see you soon, all right. Bloomy Crush has produced, edited,

(51:34):
and engineered by Ramsay Hunt here in our home studio
at Pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
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