Episode 108: Akira

Dani and Ify are joined by actor Erika Ishii as they breakdown Katsuhiro Otomo's Akira.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to another edition of Nerdificent. I am
one half of your host, Danny Fernandez, sitting across the
virtual world from me. If you want the way, holding
it down, doing it big, all the above, I can
see you when you're like four K or whatever. Oh yeah,
now this is four K. I was just complaining to
Joel about this. Yesterday. I was shooting an audition and

(00:32):
I actually have to cannon see one D right now.
This one is technically the studio one for Super Punch,
and the one over there is the one they got
me for my house. I tried to shoot an audition.
It knocked over and I broke the l C D
on A three thousand. Yeah, so I'm rare. I was
very I was who if you I'm It was so

(00:52):
good that I rewatched Ada after that because I was
in a space where I was so mad, and by
the end of Acuta, I was like, well, nothing matters,
nothing is real, Material possessions don't matter. All that matters
is friendship and the ones we hold dear. But yeah,
it's it's one of those things where it's like I'll
get it fixed, but we're in a time where we

(01:13):
just can't go to a camera repair shop. Like if
it was any other time I just today, i'd go
to B NH, hand it to him and then pick
it up when when it's ready. But now we're in
a time where it's like that camera's broken until I
don't know right right, I still feel like you could
do a drop off and just like put it on
your doorstep or something and hope for the best. Yeah,

(01:36):
this that's the one. It's so funny because I feel
like this is the one time I really relate to you, Danny,
because this and that's the only thing I'm type about
is my electronics, where it's like I don't like knowing
that it's broken. I need everything to be fixed so
when I need to use it, it's ready. If it's
if it's broken, I don't care. I don't care that
I have this one and it's perfect for right now
and streaming and that we're probably who knows when we're

(01:57):
going to be in the studio. I need the other
one ready to go, and I was so ready to
do cooking streams whatever. I've been talking too much. I
think we should introduce our guest, uh man friend. We've
known each other for so long, uh we've we've who
I think it's been. It's five years this month, Yeah,

(02:19):
five years this month, holding it down. I mean you
may have you've that that voice you here, you've heard everywhere.
You've heard it in Final Fantasy seven remake, You've heard
it in Sailor Moon, You've heard her on previous episodes.
You know, hear her in so many video games. You know,
she is starting to become one of the staple v
A s that you here in a game and you're like, oh, oh,

(02:42):
I know that voice. Uh, it is none other than
the Erica Chi. How you doing. Hi. It's so good
to get to chat with you all. Thank you so
much for inviting me for this, and I get to
talk about one of my very favorite things in the world,
my aesthetic, my sort of cool surreal identity, cyberpunk. Thank you.

(03:03):
Oh yeah. Now this is a solid anime because it
changed how anime was viewed in America. It came out
January one one, just a month before I came into
this world, a month before I started walking the Earth.
It's it's almost like this this was my red carpet,

(03:24):
my red motorcycle to ride into this world. But yeah,
and it's true. It was like a real, real cultural
ambassador for uh all Japanese culture to the United States,
which which is which is in some ways very terrifying.
But yeah, it's eight. But then also the manga had

(03:46):
started releasing in nineteen two, six years prior. Um And
I don't know, like how how deep do I was
only deep because I even want to talk about because
so much to say, because I read, I've read through
all the manga. I have it um uh And but
that was a little while ago. I think most folks

(04:07):
are familiar with the movie from But then also everybody,
whether they know it or not, is familiar with the
cultural context it provided to cyberpunk to sci fi too,
like just the look of films since then. Oh yeah,
and a lot of animation to like a lot of
other um animated properties pay tribute to it a ton

(04:29):
on top of the I was gonna stay on top
of people like Jordan peel Ty, what td um, you know,
Stephen Universe, like all those saying that it heavily influenced them.
It's very interesting too, like if if we just start
from the influence of the manga, if you read through
the manga, which is gorgeous, the line work is like

(04:49):
there are some some line work because there, um here's
there's so much to you, uh talk influence line but
first we'll talk about the line work that is just
out of this world. And there's just some designs of
the landscape in the cities where you can totally see
how it might have influenced Toriyama once he gets to
the sand saga, because it's like it very much has

(05:12):
that same line work, especially like the car design, which
I love Toriyama's design on cars. I love the short
stocky cars. But even someone pointed out on Twitter and
then I went and checked and even though this person
was like one of those like nerd historians, so they
were on it. Uh that Akira. When Akira released the

(05:35):
movie the January one eight and September seven is when
Vegeta was introduced. So uh so when you look at Tetsuo,
the like short stocky always in someone's shadow, you know,
big big forehead, short king, and you look at the geta,

(05:57):
you're like, oh, I could see I can see how
you can see that in that shouldn't be like oh yeah,
I'm a I think this person would be perfect to
counter Goku. Yeah, tom it was such an influence on
the entire industry, and like Toyama, he did it almost
all him himself, and he looked, I just the he

(06:17):
had released Domo before this, which was an award winning
comic again sort of like touching on the themes of
like psychic you know, psychic powers and the Little Girl writers. Yeah,
and it's it's so it's so bonkers, like the detailing
in it, like every single window in the building. And

(06:38):
it was just him, although fun trivia effect um one
of the he did get assistants um for some of
the line work and some of and some of the
I think for the marvel editions for uh from Satsikon,
who is legendary anime director. He didn't Godfathers in Perfect
Blue and Millennium Actress, and so it's so cool when

(07:01):
you're like, oh, these like cool selmis worked with each other.
I want to touch on the plot, but I want
to touch on something fun about the plot. And what's
something o Tomo he himself said, which if you get
the Akiday Anniversary edition, you get to have this interview
when he was interviewed right after the movie about Akida,
and it's it's very interesting because this movie that is

(07:23):
so influential. The base of his story of Akida is
uh based off of Tetsugen twenty eight, which if you
don't remember, everyone remembers astro Boy, But Tetogen twenty eight
is about this little boy who controls this giant robot
numbered twenty eight actually have like a figure that's like
based off of him. But uh, he was saying like

(07:47):
he he was apt to do a sci fi story
a cereal because he did like short stories for us
a magazine called Weekly Young, which is like Shown and Jump,
but for older men. It's it's a target audience. Where
wanted a fifty year olds. So Show and Jump is
usually for young boys. And um and and I say targeted.
Anyone can read it, but that's that's their target. And uh,

(08:10):
he would do Weekly Young, and they asked him to
do a serial, and he did a lot of sci
fi stuff. So he said when he was thinking of
you know, ideas, he said, he said he wanted to
Uh he was really inspired by Astro boyd Tetsu Tetogen
twenty eight and so he uh did he wanted to
base it, which is why Kanetta shares the same name

(08:32):
as the little boy in Tetogen uh twenty eight, Like
that's the exact same name. Um and yeah yeah, and
that's why Akira is number twenty eight. Uh yeah, so
so so that so his this influential work was already
influenced by something and and it kind of stops there

(08:52):
because Tetogen twenty s got a more of a shown
in fun friendly. He also, you know, he also cited
one of my favorite comic artists, uh, Mobius Jendrereau, like
the French heated French sci fi um I think people
might be from Valerian was based off of one of
his comics, and it's just this beautiful detailed sci fi

(09:17):
landscapes and and you could definitely see it in the work.
And then also, uh so go Ishi e no relation
to my knowledge that there's these punk films, you know,
the idea of the we think of cyberpunk and we
and dystopia, and we think of like the kid motorcycle gangs,
and that comes not just from it definitely from Akida,

(09:37):
but there were punk films so far. It's sort of
like talking about the bossoku culture, which is sort of
like the youth bicycle gangs in Japan, and there were
these punk films that so go Ishi e did, like
Panic High School and Crazy thunder Road from the seventies
and eighties that um Otomo definitely cites his influence. And
so it's it's so cool to see all of the things,

(09:58):
you know, all these seminal works that are sort of
homages to other previous seminal works. And yeah, and we
can get into two, like the specific, very specific influences
that Akida had on Western culture and movie making and
sci fi and cyberpunk. Um. I actually, and I'm curious,

(10:21):
and I'm sure your listeners might be able to weigh
in on this. And I don't know if you guys
know about this, but because two was when the manga
started releasing, which means he was like working on it
for a long time before that. But also in the
nineteen eighty two was when Blade Runner came out, And
there's always argument about which influence. But I don't understand

(10:43):
how either could have influenced each other, I think, and
I've seen sources that say, like he said he was
influenced by Blade Runner, like maybe he saw that, but Erica,
I feel like they could they could have all been
influenced by something going on like at that time, because
that's how when if he brought up a curetor Yama
a curatory on actually started dr Slump in nineteen eight,

(11:04):
so and he was drawing those cars and stuff back then.
So I think that they were all kind of similarly
influenced by media, by manga that was coming out at
that time. So I think they kind of give and
take from each other. It's kind of like nowadays when
you have two movies that come out that are are
semi similar, and even though you know that they didn't
copy from each other, it was just like clearly something

(11:26):
sparked in them this idea by seeing some of the
news or things that were going on, or even um,
some of the movies that were coming out about time
travel or just like the the futuristic look. I even
think of that when I look at, uh, not the Incredibles,
but essentially the mesh between mid century modern and futuristic

(11:48):
type of like Jetsons type of stuff like the Jetsons
and so um, yeah, I don't I don't to answer
your question. I mean, and maybe people can weigh in,
but I don't necessarily know if they one influenced the
other as much as they might have been watching some
of the same media that then spun off into their heads, right,
and I have. Okay, so cyberpunk is my thing. I've

(12:12):
done just so much consumption of it and researched into it,
and I think a lot about it. Um. One reason
is because I am uh Asian American, I'm Chinese Japanese,
and it's cyberpunk was the one place that I won't
type of genre I saw growing up that was this
mix of Western and Eastern. So the idea of sort

(12:36):
of all the sort of Eastern aesthetic and and a
lot of themes sort of couching in Western terms. And
now it's a little there's problems with it, you know.
It's it's the idea is sort of like all this
Asian aesthetic and sort of like Asian culture, and like
there's there's why are there so many Japanese signs around

(12:58):
if there are no Japanese people in yours? Like if
I see if I hear your cast speaking Chinese, their
damn well better be a Chinese person in it, um.
And And so now I'm seeing a lot more representation
and that like just cultural in general, which is good,
but like, yeah, it's it's and so it's interesting. I
think one thing that definitely Blade Running, you saw a

(13:21):
lot of uh sci fi and cyberpunk in the eighties.
That because Japan was the world leader in technology at
the time, and you know you see this in Akoda too,
and that I think gave the West a lot of anxiety. Um,
the idea that in the future there'd be this dystopian
future in which Japan ran any everything in America was

(13:42):
no longer this world power. Um. So that's why there's
the giant geisha on the billboards in in Blade Runner,
because suddenly the standard of beauty is this Asian femininity
as opposed to you know, blonde, and that was like
supposed to be a little dystopian and scary to people.

(14:03):
Or the idea of yeah, you know, like Marty McFly's
boss is, is this Japanese business man. You know, you
see a lot of sort of like j or and
like Naka Toomi. You know, yeah, I was a say that.
So you see it sort of in the as the
backdrop and a lot of films and and media in
the eighties in the West. But in Ocada, like I

(14:25):
have this huge right when they were saying, I don't
know what was maybe like ten years ago almost now.
They were gonna adapt Okada for the screens, but they
were gonna set it in Manhattan. And I was like,
let me tell you why Okada is so uniquely Japanese
a story. Um, there's so many themes that it like
a lot of japan sci fi. It comes from anxieties

(14:47):
about the bomb, like and it's always so called out
you know. It is like Japan reconciling with youth culture,
Japan reconciling with you know, sort of the the tech boom.
And I like most other things, the Americans actually make
an appearance in it. It's not in the film, but

(15:08):
in the manga. The American Navy is waiting outside of
the harbor in Tokyo and they carpet bomb the city
because they have this anxiety. They're like, oh, we're afraid
of the growing power of these Japanese children. It's better
to take them all out than to allow it to
be a threat to the world. Um, And like that's
you know, sort of honest. I don't know, Yeah, I

(15:31):
want to I want to talk about yeah, yeah, I
want to talk about that, but I will go into
the synopsis of the story. Yeah, we should explain we're
talking about about, yeah, the movie, because there there's a
lot of that, and I want to get into the
changes between the manga and the movie because there are
a lot All of it is very interesting. But first,
if you if you've never seen Akuda, here's how it

(15:53):
goes down the movie at least, and then we'll go
even further detail when we talk about the difference, because
it's like they take a lot of the you know,
components of the manga and just compressing. Yea, yeah, not
to not to make all of our weaves listening angry,
but I think it's safe to say most people have
seen the movie because the movie is way easier to

(16:15):
digest the manga series, which in its first volume is
three hundred pages, and and Otomo is worthy. Adomo is dropping.
It isn't like a easy, you know read where you're
just going through. He's like explaining and laying out delicious exposition,
and I think it's worth reading if you haven't. It
is pricey. I have all six volumes now and they're

(16:37):
about twenty bucks each, So if you do that math,
you're you're it's an investment. But Amazon they are shipping
them right now you know they don't delay the shipping
on the occult or there's a lot of there's a
lot of independent bookstores that you should definitely check. I
mean definitely that. Yeah. I always that over it. I

(17:00):
haven't been a like all of my spots, like I
was trying to support, uh, just a quick quarantine corner Joy,
which is one of my favorite restaurants out here. It's
a Taiwanese restaurant. They shut their doors just they said,
we'll be back after but we want to protect our employees.
I was like, cool. So I've been like ordering from
Donut Fran. I've been trying to order at the local spot.

(17:22):
And this is my personal curse on any and all
the meat heads who have been hoarding weights plates and
then trying to flip them online. I hope that you
get a Charlie Horse while trying to hit a pep.
You deserve it. You deserve it, you sniveling snake. Uh,
but hope plateau. I hope you plateau and and just

(17:44):
don't understand what's going on. Seriously, it was so hard
to get a pull up bar. You don't even know, uh,
but so I coulda opens and this gang led by Kanida.
The heroics are chas seemed to be chasing down a
rival gang called the Clowns, and they get into it.
It gets spicy, and we see Tetsuo and kind of

(18:08):
have like a you know, a little brother older brother
back and forth oftentimes and uh. And so Tetsuo speeds
ahead of them to catch this last clown guy catches him,
dwinks him on the head. Uh. And then there's a
creepy old baby. Uh. Intercut with this scene is a
man who was shot with a creepy old baby, kind

(18:28):
of walking through the city streets escaping, uh, escaping being
chased by um, you know these dogs which are like
canines and something that blew me. It was like, you
don't see this in movies. He pops those dogs, both
of them, and and it's it's it's interesting, which within

(18:50):
like this. This is why I love being a storytell
This is why I like a creator, because it's interesting
because it's an introduction to like this, like being like, yeah,
this is an animated movie, but we're not pulling punches.
Content content warning. It is very bloody. There's a lot
of body horror, a little a little bit of you know,
sexual violence that never gets to this is content warning.

(19:15):
I was going to say, this is one of the
most graphic animated movies I've ever seen in my life.
I was rewatching it, especially like unedited. I don't know
if I remember watching it when I was younger, when
it was edited. I don't know, probably, but when you
were little, well yeah, I mean I would illegally, like

(19:35):
most anime people watch things illegally. Um, But I don't
know if I got like bits and pieces of it,
so I don't remember, or maybe I just blacked out.
I don't know, you know, like covered my or like
just didn't fast forward through these parts. But yeah, yeah, sorry,
I'm meanna cut everyone body. Yeah, but within that scene,

(19:56):
you see like the bystander children in Horror, So it's
all it's acknowledging that this is a like a horrible thing,
but like also being like, yo, this is this movie
is about to go off. So anyway, the man who's
trying to help this little creepy man escape uh gets
shot up by the by the authorities, and the kid

(20:19):
seems to disappear. Uh. And onlooking we see Ryu and
k who we don't know their names at this time,
but they see the kid disappear. Now we were back
to this race. Uh, Tetsuo's gonna jink this guy in
the head jinks them, goes ahead, sees the same creepy
kid who was on the other side of town, and
he collides with him and there's a big explosion. Tetsuo's hurt.

(20:44):
Uh and and then the government authorities come and not
only do they get to there's a second creepy baby
who comes who helps capture the first creepy baby and
UH they also um, they also carry out Tetsuo with him,
and then they get arrested. And UH. In that time,

(21:05):
also in the scene, there's a moment where the kid
when UM, when I always forget the name of the babies,
but the first baby, uh Takahashi, Yes, Takashi, And I
remember Takashi because I remember being like, oh, there's no
way Takashi six nine got his name from this. But

(21:26):
Takashi sees uh the handler get killed, and he like
makes an earthquake happen that causes this water tower to fall.
And that's actually a nod to UH in the Mango
when Takashi first interacts with uh Kaneta and his gang
the second time, UH, he makes that same water tower

(21:46):
that's designed in the movie fall in the manga. But
then we flat fast forward there in the there caught
by the authorities. The authorities are like, these guys have
nothing to do. They weren't trying to get this baby. Uh,
and they get uh in Kaneta sees k I was like, oh,
she fine, I'm gonna help her to get out, helps

(22:06):
her get out and they all kind of leave together.
He's trying to do this weird uh sexist I saved you,
so you owe me some buns uh type of thing
and she and she and she's like thanks, no thanks,
I'm out and she rolls out, and then Kanetta leaves
with this group uh. And this in the in essentially

(22:27):
this is the event that leads towards the kind of
a big event of the movie. Tetsuo interacting with Takashi.
They discover that his brain patterns are or something they've
never seen before. Um. Very different than why his brain
patterns were different in the manga, But in the movie

(22:48):
it's it's through interacting and they they figure he might
become a strong esper, a psychic, like uh, this famed
Akita that they keep mentioning and you here it feels
like Akita's talking to Tetsuo win his head and he's
kind of kind of getting jittery. Uh. So this progresses

(23:09):
the story down uh these multiple storylines where we follow
Tetsuo in his interaction with the government, and then we
follow Kanetta who is trying to uh figure out what's
going on with Tetsuo because he's like, he comes back,
he leaves, he and then when he comes back and leaves,
he has this like he kind of freaks out because

(23:31):
uh and he kind of yells because he yells at
Kaneta because he feels like Canetta always feels like he
has to save them. So he gets captured by the
government again. And then we're following k R You and
they're like Benefactor who seems to be this movement who
know about Akira and they're trying to expose it and

(23:52):
the resistance movement. And then they are they are they
have a mole inside this sort of uh government council
who is the opposition leader and leverage them. Yeah, and
it helped them and helped them like, um kind of
blow this a key ra thing out the water. And
eventually this all leads down the road to probably the

(24:14):
thing everyone remembers, which is the event in which Tetsuo
is in the in the what would be the stadium
for the Olympics at the time of Okay, yeah, by
the way, Olympics in Tokyo, like that is, you know,
and then except this disaster befalls and so they're not
sure they might have to cancel it and everything, which

(24:34):
is oh boy, yeah, I know right, I think it
is canceled. It is, it is, yeah, and it's just
like it's so that's so scary that they that they
did that. I don't know, So it's so spooky. And
my man's Goku was a mascot, I know it would

(24:55):
have been. Why was there in February and they were
so excited about it, and you know they you know,
I mean Japan in Tokyo's it's so beautiful. Um. But
although I saw somebody posted because I was looking up
a kira um like the hashtag on Instagram, and I
guess it came out in theaters recently, like you could
see it again in theaters, um, And somebody posted a

(25:19):
picture of their ticket and I was like, what what
was this? And it was April four, and I was
like what I don't know if it was in Japan.
They might have been, They might have been quarantined differently
than US. Oh yeah, Japan was not. They did not
quarantine until a lot later. Partially some people think it

(25:40):
might be because of the Olympics. Yeah, so this is
all taking a place against the backdrop of preparations for
the Olympics in Japan, which is wild. And what eventually
happens is that the psychic energy that his body is
producing after a string of events where Tetsuo just kind
of owes off and he starts lashing out against the government,

(26:03):
and there's like these like, um, what what's the word
I'm looking for? Like the end of times folk who
have been claiming a doomsday cult. There's a doomsday cult
about Akira And there that's the word I was looking for.
And they're following see them in the background, which again
we'll get to this later, but they play a huge
role in they're not even named, like this character you

(26:25):
see isn't even named in the movie, but plays a
huge role in the manga. And that's what was interesting,
you know, reading the manga after watching it, as you
can tell that because Otomo he was talking about it
in the interview that it was so hard to fit
all of that movie, and he knew, and he and
he and he showed like his notebook of where he
was like, Okay, this is what we can fit, this

(26:46):
is what we can't. And so I think it was
very smart to like be like, Okay, I'm gonna give
these nods for people who have read it, so they'll
they'll know. But the story itself is son how do
you see. It's a lot of it is added to
sort of the backdrop, so you know, the political machinations

(27:06):
and the sort of doomsday cole and the civil unrest
and all of that that actually plays a bigger role
in the manga is framed as just a backdrop. Yeah,
the anime, and I think it works really well. But yeah, yeah,
it's one of and it's one of those things were
watching it where I totally a thousand percent agree with

(27:26):
why we uh we You can't just remake it. You
can't set it in New York if you do. And
we're going to get into the final kind of chapter
of the movie and then start our open discussion about
the comparison right after these messages. Hey, everyone, welcome back

(27:50):
to Nerdificent it's your boy if you are the way
in the virtual stew with Danny Fernandez Erica Eachi and
we're talking about Akita and before we were setting up
kind of like the first uh tuish acts of the movie,
and the final act is probably I think one of
the most memorable because there's something very poetic, and movies

(28:11):
do this, I think, uh we've seen this done in
a lot of like the Marvel movies and all this,
but like I love when you kind of set a
stage for a final scene and it's a stage that's
kind of been hinted at this this Olympic arena, Olympic Arena,
and you and in this Olympic arena, there's this like
almost throne there and what happened was and this isn't

(28:33):
as clear in the movie as it is in the book,
but the government planned on having a secret base under
where the Olympics were being planned, and that's where Occuda
was being held. So Tetsuo ends up going there because
he wants to face Acda. He's hearing about this guy.
He wants to face it. He finds out that the
Acuda isn't a person, it's a collection of his body

(28:55):
parts from when they stopped him. And then one of
the coolest scenes to happen ends, which is they use
this weapon called the Soul shoot down on Tetsuo and
it takes it was it's because it's beautiful because there's
this moment, uh, kind of Do's gun runs out of battery.

(29:18):
They're kind of facing each other, and then you just
see this blue lights around Tetsuo and you just see
his skin start to like flare up, and then they
shoot it down, but it isn't enough to take take
him out. It was, oh man, this from this movie.
It just goes full throttle, um and uh. And there's

(29:38):
just like Canada is able to retreat, try and recharge
his batteries, and in this time, Tetsuo creates a metal arm. Well,
he creates a metal arm from the rubble, and now
he's inside the stadium, sitting in the street. His girlfriend
from before comes to him to kind of consult with him.
But at this point Tetsuo is mad with power, not

(30:01):
really making any sense. Um, it's sorry, not really making
any sense. And and now it's it's the final stage
because now his body and we find out why he's
had so much headaches, but his power is so much
that his body can't contain the how much his UH

(30:21):
power is growing. And that's when we get into one
of the often thought about, often reference to Akira body
horror scenes where his body just starts to mutate. It's
it's just it really that from that I think that sequence,
from when his body starts to mutate until the end
of it, to me, it it like moves like an

(30:42):
ariaster horror because there is no real the The only
suspense isn't the is Tetsuo gonna kill this person? Is
It's like, oh my gosh, what like how can he
contain this? And he his body is growing, He's crying
out for Canada. He just totally flipped, see like he
it's almost like he reverted back to his old self

(31:03):
because there is a change the moment he starts to
have power, he starts to be really cocky and and
now he's like begging for help from Canada and he's
like yeah, yeah, and he's like and then they like
and the body is morphing into this giant, grotesque baby,
and he like he trushes his girlfriend and Canada like

(31:27):
gets out at the last second, and eventually the creepy
babies all work together, and they they um because Canada
was too close to what because they bring back Akira first.
So Akita comes back and and they're like, yo, hey,
we they straight up this is they straight up pulled

(31:48):
a dragon ball z where they're like, hey, we prayed
to your body parts, brought you back because we need
you to fight this big, big thing. And Ocuda is
like bet And then so the Acuda creates this um
it seems like, well, how would you describe it, Erica,
because I'm still how would you describe that? Like light explosion?

(32:10):
I mean, and I mean light in the sense of
like the well, the way it looks and not like
it's not like it's stomic explosion, you know, it's it's
supposedly and in the beginning um in eight or something,
I think, uh, supposedly Akada caused World War three and

(32:31):
set off this giant explosion, this sort of atomic blast
that kicked off World War three. And now this was
sort of another like sort of the follow up to that.
I think that's the one you're talking about, the big yeah,
the growing explosion that of light in the nick and
they referenced it as being like the beginning of the

(32:52):
universe and there's like it gets very philosophical at the end,
like it really and that's what I love is a
movie that has me just kind of trying to pick
away at like, Okay, what is because when they're like
what happened to uh Tetsuu and like, uh, Canada's like,
I don't know, but I think we'll see him again,

(33:12):
like he said, you know, he says right, and that
left It's all left very sort of ambiguous, which is
really interesting and it work works very well from the
because in the manga is it's more clear manga there
is a definite ending and I don't know again spoiler
alert for anybody who wants to still read, I would
highly recommend reading it. But in the in the manga,
at the end, it's a very definitive that all of

(33:36):
the espers that like the psychic kids, the babies that
the psychic babies that if he was talking about, and
Okada and Tetsuo all ascend to a higher plane of existence.
And they've sort of been hinting at this throughout the
entire manga is that this is sort of the natural
evolution of humans of it's it's a very classic cyberpunk
theme of transhumanism, and so they send to a higher

(34:00):
plane in some ways that sort of tetso's at peace. Um.
Then the U n comes in and provides aid to
just like in post World War two, the United the
sort of United Nations are the nations come in and
um provide aid to Japan, uh, Kannada and k and

(34:22):
the rest of the resistance fighters established like so that
I forget what they call it, but um, it's this
new order order like the Kingdom of New Kingdom of
Japan essentially and declare independence. Um. And they warn the
United Nations, Um, hey we still have our friends, the
psychic friends that we had, the ones that destroyed a

(34:43):
ton of stuff, like, we still have them in our hearts.
So watch out, Um, we're independent now. And then you
see sort of at the end, like also the Joker
biker gang at some point like starts helping they they
have joined up with the revolutionaries and everybody sort of
unites at the and and um, they start a new
world order with this sort of bike gang that's built

(35:05):
peace and peaceful society. And so there's a very definite
happy ending today. Yeah, I know, that's that's what's so interesting,
not to cut you off, but I really want us
to really uh talk about because this is this movie
is so interesting and beautifully political because like we were

(35:26):
talking about the initial Akira explosion, I get an explosion
which is very much the fault of the Japanese government
because they were doing these experiments into this world war,
which assumes that they kind of didn't take ownership of
it and allowed it to become this huge thing. And
I think that's a take. And then on top of

(35:47):
the take, with the manga of that, that's a very
important thing because it's something I think that that like
when it's brought up, I never like how it's brought up,
because usually it's brought up by a um i'm a
just aloud to say, a white person, and it's usually
brought up in an insulting way. But yeah, after World
War two, uh, the US like invaded Japan and like

(36:10):
didn't allow them to have a military and kind of
like just kind of like forced themselves onto that country.
And I feel like that ending in the manga is
a response to that. That's that's I feel like a
Tomo giving his thoughts about that of being like you
can help us. There there was a lot of sort
of aid that came into Japan afterwards, you know, a

(36:31):
lot of help with rebuilding, but definitely you know, Japan
was demilitarized and you know, they weren't allowed to have
an army. They they you know, they lost the war
in such a devastating huge way. I mean, you know
the bombs, when the bombs were dropped, that can you
even we we cannot comprehend what that was, you know,

(36:52):
like right now living in this time, like it is
so much bigger than anybody thinks of now, like for
even for which is like I remember in physics we
learned about, you know, just really the devastating effects of
a nuclear blast and like how huge it was, and
it really it just devastated Japan and there was It's

(37:13):
in every all of their media since then, you know,
in in so many ways, a lot of media like
Astro Boy and and you know, just so much came
from that the bomb and and this is no exception,
and yeah, there was definitely a political statement there, like
and I I don't know, like it's it's been a

(37:34):
while since I've read all the manga, but I just
remember the idea of the the American Navy sitting off shore,
which also actually mirrors what happened when they first forced
Japan out of isolationism in the eighteen hundreds. Admiral Perry
and his navy sat off shore and was like, Hey,
you're gonna open up trade with us, otherwise we will
bomb the hell out of you. Um. And so it's

(37:57):
it's sort of an I imagine would be a nod
to that, and I it's so it's there's all of
these anxieties in it and themes in it that are
very tied up in the history of Japan. Yeah, And
I want to talk about that because it's something that's
always bugged me. Maybe it's it's and I've said a
statement like this before and I think I think I

(38:20):
set this on who shots and not nereifficent about you know,
um when when when when you are you know, taking
in a media from a country, you essentially, in short,
if you're taking a media from a country, if you're
obsessing over you should also uh know what's going on there,
and you should also like want to support it. And
it's always bugged me this idea because when you think

(38:42):
about the end of World War two and one, the
fact that uh, the bombs were chosen to drop on
Japan obviously, just the the bitterness about you know, Pearl
Harbor whatever, but even then to choose to only do
it in Japan, and to choose to demilitarize Japan, like

(39:06):
you you didn't you didn't have those sanctions put on
anyone else. Uh, and then for it to still be
technically upholded, there's like there's like the article has not
been amended yet. There's been I was just looking it
up to make sure, but like, um, they didn't amend
the constitution itself, but they they gave more powers to

(39:28):
the Japan Self Defense Force. But that article needs to
just be gone like that, like like why are we
like you know, just I don't know, I just have
this this weird moral sense of things of just like um,
like even though I know the world isn't fair, it's
just like there's just clear basic things that I think,

(39:50):
like it should be like, Okay, enough time has passed,
We're we're good because we weren't. Only Japan wasn't the
only country we went up against, and we've only shows
one to demilitarize. Yeah, well, you know, I mean it's
interesting because out of that post world War two deal militarism, demilitarization.

(40:12):
You know, it can be argued that Japan became a
world leader um in tech, especially in the eighties because
a lot of their you know, they literally melted down
their their guns into plowshares. You know, a lot of
the scrap metal from their military operations, from from their
weaponry went directly into tech manufacture, UM and toy making,

(40:36):
and so you know it in the eighties, it was
a world power and that led to a lot of
sort of economic economic anxiety in the West. A lot
of people, like Japanese was being taught as the language
of you know, business in all the business schools, UM.
And you know that's definitely in the background in Okada,
like in terms of cultural context. You know, it's because

(40:59):
you can always you can always view media on certain levels,
and you know, on a surface level, this is about
psychic kids. And but you know also you see in
the background, you know, the the unrest against the current
political uh powers. Well, we've brought this up before as

(41:22):
far as UM. Whenever people which we get often tweet
at us and say, like, um, keep politics out of it,
like politics into it, and it's like, UM, I always
bring up that Marvel and d C are Western American
comic books have covered every single war since their inception,
has been a part of influenced the writers and uh

(41:44):
with the storylines of these characters. So it's it's fascinating
to me that you would want And again it's kind
of like what we were talking about is like what
influenced what? Well, a lot of these artists are all
looking at the same events at the same time. They're
seeing the same news store ra's and and you know,
seeing the government knocking down you know, people's doors and

(42:06):
and um, people being pulled out of their home like
things like that, and it's like, well, this is going
to create kind of like in what we are in now.
But hopefully we don't get twenty billion shows about coronavirus.
But uh really don't need that, just like I didn't
and didn't get we didn't need don't need twenty shows
about nine eleven. I don't need twenty shows about coronavirus.

(42:27):
But however, I think that it can still affect and influence, Uh,
what horrors come out the idea of isolation, the ideas
of you know, digital the rise of digital technology, like
the change in the workforce. Yeah, there's just going to
be all these themes that I know will make it
into things. And that's that's how it is. I mean, yeah,

(42:49):
to your to your point Anny about Marvel and d C.
It's just like it's absurd to think like that. You know,
every major superhero and all of the teams has has
been straighted punching Hitler like yeah, surgery, you know, and
X Men is supposed to be an allegory for the
civil rights movement and straight up possible for you know,

(43:11):
we don't create art in a vacuum. Yeah, now that's
what I was gonna say Before I go on, though,
I do need to clarify that Germany was demilitarized to
while they're occupying in Germany, they were demilitarized, So they
just want to clear that up before someone starts to

(43:31):
say some stuff. It is funny that's sort of different
treatments that that, you know, we did. I don't know,
there's a there's a lot about that. You know, like
only one group of American citizens of cultural heritage was
was really interned in on math in the US, and yeah,
it's Okada is So it's so rife with all these

(43:55):
incredible interesting themes and for a while, and we see
it in a lot of jack Needs media. Um, the
idea of the old struggling with the new. There the
fear of youth culture in Battle Royal, in the idea
of like the sort of creepy ring girl or like
why for a while we were seeing so many horror

(44:15):
films that featured children Japan. Yeah, well, I guess that
that do. But definitely specifically in Japan. You know, there's
the idea of youth culture that we're rejecting cultural norms.
And you know there's the Bossoku gangs, which is the
sort of um, the bicycle the bike gangs in Japan,

(44:36):
and and the the sukaban Oh my gosh, if you
don't know about to givon, it's the sort of girl
the schoolgirl gangs, and they'd have all the schoolgirl uniforms,
but they like mod them out and like put patches
on them, and you know that sort of and ended
up turning into so the go Go Yubari style a

(44:58):
teen girl assassin robe, but in in Okada. And this
is my read on it, and I'm sure that there
are there are, you know, academic studies about this idea
of the children being the ones to inherit this these powers,
that the next evolution of humanity and the the destruction

(45:21):
they caused with them is is definitely points to sort
of a fear of youth culture and you and the
next generation. And that's not unique to Japan. You know,
we're always these kids in their TikTok's and they're you know, well,
I wanted to say, what UM spilling over into Western
culture stranger things. The Duffer brothers made Eleven, who was

(45:45):
a child who escapes from a government facility and learns
that she possesses spirit spiritual natural powers, said that the
influence of this movie was quote obviously a big one
on them. Ryan Johnson also said he was influence UM
when he made Looper, which features a child who's able
to kill his would be assassin using only his mind.

(46:07):
So like you were saying it clearly, and then obviously
Kanye West um Stronger had multiple shot for shot remakes
of key scenes from from the film. Um. But that's
just some of the people, some of the art of
the Western artists that have been heavily influenced. Oh yeah,
I mean, it's it's beyond Western art. I mean it
influenced the acceptance of anime because this was the first

(46:30):
time you've kind of seen an anime that took on
adult themes in the way and they didn't even get
as adult as they got in the manga and the
manga Connecta did drugs. Connecta was smashing. Connecta got someone pregnant,
and it's and it's very interesting because that that may
not seem extreme now, but definitely in Japan. I think
another good way to kind of like, I've been watching
a lot of gain Tama, which is a I think

(46:52):
the best way I've heard it describe so far is
like if it's always sunny meets anime. It's very like
cultural references, very like, but it still has like they're
still wholesome, like they're they're they're the worse until someone
they feel needs to be protected is protected. But there's
so many direct cultural references, and it's also interesting to
see just how like how they still uphold like you

(47:14):
know of if a woman sleeps with a man before
she's married, it's still such a taboo thing and and
that's a running joke that they have because something they
showed throughout the movie that was kind of like all
this world's going to to blank is like they they
always had shots of people like making out and feeling
each other up in the background, and that was like

(47:35):
such supposed to be such a like, oh my gosh,
taboo thing when that's just if a night at Tendance
of the Trees. Uh, that's a local l a bar reference. Um,
physical cool affection is not very public. Yeah, there it
is still you know how I love talking about people

(47:55):
filling each other up, um, which we will get into
more after these messages. Gosh and we are back. Who
was talking about filling up? I do think that that's
really funny, Iffy, that that is, Uh, that's how we

(48:18):
show that everything is going to hell, is people like
making out and whatnot. Why it's it's it is really
interesting because it you know, as we were talking about, like,
did just just briefly touch on a couple of things
that didn't make it into the film that we're in
the manga, we're yeah, like this sort of storyline with

(48:39):
k and the revolutionaries and uh, Lady Miako who is
the leader of the doomsday cult. Um you see her
very briefly in the movie, but there's a whole storyline
with her in the manga UM, you know, just themes
of you know what was interesting and all all sci fi,

(49:02):
UM and cyberpunk is um retrofuturistic because it reflects the
esthetic and the anxieties and the themes that are popular
at a given time that will eventually go out of fashion.
And sometimes it gets things right for the future. Uh,
sometimes it's way off because that was just what was

(49:23):
important to people at this given period of time. And Okada,
I think, is such an enduring has such an enduring
legacy because there were these themes that just really resonated
with people and and a lot of those made it
into the film and into Western culture and pop culture

(49:44):
from then on. You know, the idea of the child
motorcycle gangs and this dystopian landscape, civil unrest, you know,
versus corrupt governments. Danny mentioned some very specific examples of
you know, things that I didn't. I didn't. I was like, oh,
of course that makes sense that that's that. But even

(50:04):
the very famous motorcycle slide, Like every time I see it,
I was specifically thinking of, um, I know, Stephen Universe,
Rebecca Sugar, they like actively said that they put it
in there, but also um Lelo and Stitch. Do you
remember when Yeah, do you remember when she was trying
to Stitch was trying to get off the island and

(50:25):
kept like like, it's just such an iconic I'm sure
it's like step one in animation school or maybe Matt
when you get your master's step two. Yeah, I was
gonna say it's pretty hard. Maybe I said, maybe when
you get your masters then it's uh, that's the first
step is learning that animation style. But do the bouncing
ball exercise and then you do the occulta motorcycle slide.

(50:45):
I can guarantee you've seen it. And there's this great
there's a couple of great gifts that compile all of
the really popular ones. Yeah, just the look of it,
and and you know, as I said, sort of Blade
Runner happened concurrently, but Okada is for sure that city landscape,
that Dystupian cyberpunk landscape is so influential. And in terms

(51:09):
of fashion, that's like it's definitely hot right now. The
sort of the red leather jacket, oh oh in a
Godzilla what's the things? Uh John c Riley's jacket, it
has the pill he has the pill jacket, says like
uh for good for good health on it and just yeah,
it definitely influenced my aesthetic with this sort of bold

(51:30):
like I mean, red is my favorite color. I love it.
I've always been a fan of motorcycles. It was super dope.
But also one thing I like about the motorcycle is
we off we we were talking about how it's this
you know, the the time that this movie came out,
you know, there's this like fear of how fast you know,

(51:51):
Japan is developing their technology. The bike itself is a
flex Cannon is a Japanese company, Citizen is a Japanese watchmaker.
Show like it It's it's not only this dope bike,
but it has stickers from these prominent Japanese companies that
are still around and kicking till this day. So so
like and I just feel that because like it's it's

(52:13):
it's there's so many like layers to it, because I
feel like that is what it's like being, you know,
a part of a culture which you you you can
make a criticism of it, but you also want to
make a point to be like, this isn't an invitation
to like look down on us. This is just to
let you know that while we have our problems, we
still out here and and it's and that's one thing

(52:35):
I love about the bike, and it's probably why I
put stickers on everything so much, because I just love it.
But also, yeah, I'm the same. This movie was real
bad for me because I all already my post team
purchase that some people are either vehemently against or vehemently
for is a motorcycle. And this was the worst movie
to watch because you got a motorcycle, well not yet,

(52:58):
I was. I was kind of playing it. I asked,
I asked Instagram should I get a motorcycle? And so
many people. I had so many messages. My favorite has
been multiple people being like, you have a daughter. I
was like, and I have a car to driver around
and I have I think they mean that your odds
of not anyways, I'm not going to say my mom
would be very disappointed in you. Oh yeah, but I

(53:22):
have This isn't once in a while I think about it,
and it's ocus fault, mostly like because like I think
about it, like the wind in my hair, like barreling
down the road and my awesome leather jackets and on
this red bike, and I think about it so much
and you know in l A. It's kind of a
death sentence, like, yeah, well, it was so funny. One

(53:44):
of the people, one of the people who were four,
it was like, look, Manna, I'm gonna keep it funky.
What you send me a paragraphs? Like it's the one
of the best, Like it's the best experience I have.
I love driving to work, wind going through my hair.
I have been in three accidents. If everybody I know
with a bike, it's like it's the best thing in
the world, but you've got to know that it's a

(54:05):
very good chance you will die. Yeah. Yeah, well it's
it's so funny because it's like it's it's it's it
really is the specific l A driving style, which is
the style that people are driving like they're the only
car on the road. There's no self awareness, like even
in a car, there's like you have to think about it.
You really have to think about the fact that in

(54:27):
normal days in l A, there is an accident every day.
That's not normal. Every man they're like, yeah, yeah, that's true.
It's not just one. They're they're over a dozen accidents
every day on the same stretch of road we have.
I mean, it's it's yeah, I was gonna say the

(54:47):
other place though, if you that a lot of people
have motorcycles that I lived in, its Texas, and the
same thing everybody in everybody in Texas drives the same way,
like you're the only one on the road. Um, and yeah,
it's just it's you do you though, you know, we'll see.
I don't know, I might end up getting a whole

(55:08):
bunch of tweets after this episode, people begging me not
Uh yeah, I wanted. Yeah, let's let's you know, geek
out about Also the animation. I didn't mean to stop
that combo. But one thing I noticed that was really
cool and something that I've that you see a lot
that has to be influenced by this is the light trails, uh,
you know, like the way the tail light trails and

(55:28):
that throughout this movie during the motorcycle scenes. I wish
there was a serialized anime to just have just the
biker portions of this. And I think that's the only
remake that I'm interested in, is like a remake that
is a an anime redone. Yeah, there's a lot to

(55:49):
add to it. I think that that could be beneficial. Normally,
I am I feel like if you have something to
say and to add to it, that is when you're
allowed to do remake or reboot. But you know that
being said, for a while, uh, live action was very
much you know underway, uh supposedly and produce. You know,

(56:11):
pre production was starting to kick off and Tachot, one
of my favorite director in the world, was helming it,
and you know that got shelved um when he started
to work on Thor. So I do know that they
were into it, but now uh postponed indefinitely because it
was postponed indefinitely, well because Thor and because he has

(56:32):
other projects, and also they were saying they really do
want to have Asian and Japanese actors in it, which
I really respect, but Hollywood has not did a good
job of cultivating those that are well known enough. Honestly though,
I I feel like that's uh just such a cop
out because there's so many movies that are released you know,

(56:53):
luckily I do who shot you? And there are so
many major movies that are released with unknowns avatar, you know,
in that rid of like you know, I'm sure we've
all seen it, the threat of people who passed on stuff.
And I think Avatar. They wanted Ben afflecked they were
going to give him ten percent of the movie. He
said no, and they gave it to an unknown. You
went from Affleck to unknown. And I feel like that

(57:13):
doesn't happen for people of color. It has to be
a name people of color. But if you and I'm
gonna just flower say it because I know I have
the facts behind me that you can go and look
up movies that in major films, I'm talking about multimillion
dollar films, they feel so comfortable letting white unknown actors
get roles, but if you're a person of color, you
have to have a name. But there's no it's it's

(57:34):
it's it's a trap because if you create no opportunities
for people of color, but then set this rule that
if you want people a person of color to elite,
they have to be a known you set a trap.
It's it's that's that's a play that you would do
in magic to screw over someone to be like, ah, yes,
you have to you have to. Uh will only accept

(57:54):
people of color if they have roles. Ah. But but
I feel like, you know, we've talked about so many
of the movies that did like slum dog millionaire, like
you know, nobody knew anybody there and now and now
we have our king. We have a brown king that
we get to you know, you know, I love that
he's doing all the historical British rules like oh yeah,

(58:16):
but but that's also like uh to, that's a slum
slum dog millionaire story because you know, like yeah, like
because um with um how cash I used to know
his name like this, but from Captain Phillips, you know,
after that he was still driving taxicabs like you it's
very hard for you to jump in. Then um our
Man's from Aladdin, who was complaining about totally advancing, like

(58:39):
you can have a banger film and it still is
like you still have to convince, You still have to convince.
I mean, you know, has anyone heard from Jalizzapparricio from Roma? No,
Like she was literally nominated for an Academy Award, and
where is she? She was on the cover of every
magazine and everyone has forgotten about her. I think she
might be in like a couple of things, like one

(59:02):
or two things, but I don't see anyone talking about
her anymore. I did not recognize that it was dev
Patel who did slump Yeah, Dev Patel, Gosh, he's yeah.
But if anybody so so Erica, I completely agree. I
think that it has to be. I think it would
be disrespectful if it wasn't a Japanese or Asian America.

(59:25):
I mean specifically if it should be Japanese. Yeah, that's
how I feel too about DBZ. I'm like, I don't
care if Goku's an alien. He means so much to
these people that it's almost disrespectful to not have them
be and so kind of like what what if? But
these are huge iconic properties that I think you can
put someone unknown and I think at least someone like

(59:45):
Taiko Wa Titi or another person of color like Jordan
Peel who passed on it. However, who knows what's going forward.
They would not f it up. I don't think. I
think it's you have if you can, why wouldn't you
you know? It's it's these are these there are these opportunities,
and I'm seeing it a lot in anime and in

(01:00:06):
you know, sort of cyberpunk stuff where it is a
lot of stories from Asian countries from Japan and there
they don't cast many they have like you know, Lana
Condor is like the token Asian that ends up in
all of these things, and then that's it. Um And
so I really just would love to see these stories, uh,

(01:00:31):
you know, incorporate people of color. Yeah, and I think
you're I think you're right, and I think here here's
the thing. We we have to come to terms with
the fact that Hollywood will always try and americanize it.
And it's not always their fault. There's just some people
who are like, like the same reason people were like
are waiting for a parasite remake. But here's the thing,

(01:00:52):
put more thought into it than doing Uh, New York.
New York is not like Tokyo like I have. I
was supposed to go this year, but unfortunately I won't
be going. But I can tell you just off of
just looking at it alone. And also if you're trying
to target the themes, then you're gonna have to make
this a hyper futurized version of i'd say, like a

(01:01:13):
San Francisco a tech hub, because you want somewhere where
people are experimenting. But that's only if you know that's
that's only if you for some reason, why not Tokyo.
Tokyo is such a fun place. I means someone in
this episode actually had the fun of shooting in Tokyo,
so they could tell you how how how beautiful and
how fun and how many great shots you can get

(01:01:35):
from Tokyo alone. It's incredible. Yeah, it's it's so incredible.
I love Tokyo. I have to we have to hamp
this down. We've we've got the the they said five
minutes left. We've been talking. I can talk about Akita forever.
I can. I can just and I like doing movies, uh,
because there's just it's kind of concise. So I'm probably

(01:01:57):
that's probably gonna be all my picks is gonna be
anime movies. Uh. And we're going to keep the high
throttle going because the next one I'm probably gonna want
to do is Redline, which has our friend Liam O'Brien. Yeah.
That one is so beautiful and again definitely influenced again, huge,
hugely influenced by Akada. Yeah, if you haven't seen the

(01:02:18):
Okada movie, it is kind of like when you see it,
it's it's like goes in the show. When you see
you're like, oh, well that's where that came. Yeah. Uh.
So highly recommends Super Love it. I'm excited to see
what happens in the future with it, with either with
live action or you know, they were there was talk
of more sort of media coming out surrounding it. And

(01:02:38):
thanks for letting me talk with you guys about it.
Of course, talking with you all just always such a treat.
All right, Well, where can people find you? Erica? Thanks
for coming on. Where where have you got anything to plug?
Tell us, give us give it. I am at Erica
ishi E on Twitter and at the Erica ishi E
on Instagram. There there's something that might be coming out

(01:03:01):
soon that I'm in, but you know, I can never
you can't really say, just in case it gets pushed
these days, but yeah, thank you. Just keep up with me.
I'm I'm on social media a lot, all right, and
you know me if you add the way on Twitter
and Instagram, if he's on Twitch, super Punch is gonna
be back. If you're listening to this now, that means

(01:03:22):
Super Punch is officially back. It also was Naomi's birthday,
so May third, but we're back. Tune in. It's going
down live and direct. I am at Miss Danny Fernandez
and all the things I wanted to give a huge
shout out to our friends at the Perky Nerd. We

(01:03:43):
had Tiffany if you remember on she was the shop
owner on for a Captain Marvel episode. They are still
taking orders and desperately need them. Their site is up.
Remember to UH to support your local comic book shops.
She again is one of the few female owned comic
book shops in the state. Actually, um so, I want

(01:04:05):
to want to keep up with our lady business owners. Uh.
They're also doing I'm going to be doing a live
makeup tutorial with them. They like have slots where they're
teaching you superhero makeup. So I think they're doing like
a Black Widow and a couple of other inspired looks.
Um so you can buy a slot for that. Just
want to keep their lights on. I want to make

(01:04:27):
sure that Tiffany stays in business, So hit up the
Perky Nerd. You can follow them on all their socials
and like we always say, stay nerdy.