Episode 81: Stephen King

It’s the last episode of Spooktober and the gang is talking about the Sultan of Scare, Stephen King! Dani and Ify are joined by comedian and favorite guest Lucé Tomlin Brenner to discuss the many works and the history of this famous author. Have a wonderful, safe, Halloween and enjoy this episode of Nerdificent!

FOOTNOTES:

Lucé on Twitter and Instagram

The 13 Best Stephen King Books Ranked

Top 30 Stephen King Movies Ranked

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Nerdificent. I'm
your host. If you wide away and not sitting across
from me as Danny, he had prior obligations ripping and
rolling around town, and so it's just me sitting in
with a good friend Lucy Tomlin Brennan. How are you doing. Hello,
I'm fantastic. Thank you for having me. Of course, you

(00:30):
know we had to get you back on the second
sp October. We wouldn't we wouldn't dream of going without you.
Thank you. I rewatched all of the Halloween movies again
thinking about how we did it all last year together.
I thought of you because on Who Shot You? We
mentioned um Halloween three season of the w and it

(00:52):
was because someone asked, like, it would have been a
good who shot call for you? But it was like,
what's a scary What's what are bad scary movies? And
someone said that, and then too, I think Dreya said
it's it's it's still good, and I think Alonso also
cakes it's not bad. I'm sorry. Snakes leaking out of
a melted kid's face. That is an amazing visual. I

(01:13):
need to watch that. I think it's just more so
the lack of Michael Michael Myers that was being landed on.
But it's like, if you get past that, it's pretty great.
Really an evil corporation. It's so timely. But yeah, uh,
you know, we start off our episodes with the same
thing every week, which is, what are you geeking out
about right now? Um? One of my new favorite movies

(01:37):
called Satanic Panic that is one of the best horror
comedies I've ever seen. Uh, it might still be in
a few theaters, but it is streaming on Shutter, the
horror streaming network. It's Shutters great their curation. They have
everything from like supernatural to slasher, to like extreme bloody
stuff to like literal comedies and like fun goofy poky stuff.

(02:00):
So yeah, it's for it's for everybody. It's perfect for
this time of year. But Satanic Panic was directed by
a young woman, Chelsea Stardust and written by Grady Hendricks,
who is one of my favorite horror authors who I
also recommend since we're delving into our horror author today.
If you're looking for somebody a little newer, a little fresher,
Gradie Hendricks has three incredible books. We sold Our Souls,

(02:22):
my best friend's exorcism in Horror Store, and he can
write women the best of any straight man I've ever
seen before. I keep like looking for pictures of him
because I kind of don't believe he's a real straight dude.
It's a pen name, Yeah, absolutely, because I'm like, how
does he know so much about my team girl experience?
And there's a lot of that. Satanic Panic has a

(02:43):
lot of like a strong, funny, weak, bizarre, frightening women
in its starring Rebecca Romaine, who I think is one
of the sexiest women alive, and her husband Jerry O'Connell. Yeah,
it's got, it's got everything. Yes, yes, o man. Well
for me, I'm geeking out about. This week is actually

(03:03):
uh more on the tech side, you know. I finally
got a couch for my new place and all this stuff,
and then setting up lighting and on a whim, I
picked up some some like smart smart bulbs um for
the living room lights, and I just was like, I
always wanted to do it, and I have an Alexa,
and then I immediately was hooked, so like in the

(03:26):
span of buying the smart bulb and like loving it,
I went ahead and bought two like colorful smart bulbs
for my room and then a living room alexas so
that I can voice control the lights on and off.
Those I always go with like music or sounds. Also
there's all different settings. Yeah, there's like I was testing
out the one because the one in my room is
the full hue, so it has all color settings. So

(03:48):
there's a Halloween one that like goes orange and black
and it makes your whole room origin. And then there's
a Christmas one that's like green and red, all that
crinkling you. Here in the background is another guest who
I did an announced, which is Naomi Mudi way my daughter.
She's eating uh cereal and she's trying to make her
way to this uh cereal bar. I'm gonna open it

(04:09):
up for and then we'll get started. I'm really into
I've never heard of the I'm not familiar with these
lights and not like a big tech person, but I
love the idea that you should be watching a movie
and have the lights, Like what if doing like a
really scary scene, all your lights went out to heighten
the film for you. I know. Let's see. That's the
integration we need because the way it works now is

(04:30):
Alexa really just turns it on and off, which is
nice because I just I'm trying more and more to
be a Tony Stark or you know, because like you
just say good night, You say Alexa, good night, and
then it will turn off all the lights in the
house and you'll say Alexa, good morning and it will
turn it all on. Or you can say, uh, Alexa,

(04:51):
what is it? What what's my day look like? And
then it will give you the news, what's on your schedule, uh,
the weather, and traffic to your destination. So I was like,
that just makes me feel like I'm the super like
I'm Batman. I feel like the only thing the next
step for this that I would love to see is
like a Wizard of Oz sort of Jetson's thing where

(05:12):
they brush your teeth for you, like two little hands
come down from the ceiling and let curl your hair
and teeth. And the closest I got was I gotta
quip brush because I've heard so much. I mean, we
we pushed it on on the pod, but it's a
pot must but yeah, it's actually pretty solid, like they
it's close because it almost tells you how to brush

(05:33):
your teeth because it'll like they suggest you do it
in quadrants and then it'll alert you when to go
to the next quadrant. And so that's pretty good. The
only thing it's missing is a little gloved hand popping
out of your wall holding it. See I don't I
don't think I trust technology that much to let it
wildly swing things around in my mouth. See. I think
it's kind of creepy. Anyways. I definitely can appreciate everything

(05:56):
saying being like interesting and fancy, but there is a
creepy element to it, and I think it'd be fun
if it just went full creep and hands came out
of your wall. You know what? Yes, Uh, don't hide,
don't hide the truth. So today you know it's Spookedtober.
It's the last episode of sp October because let me

(06:17):
let me double check that, because it's gonna because it
is the twenty nine, two days before Halloween. It is
the last Spookedober. I'm glad we closed it out with you,
Thank you. I'm preparing for Halloween hangover. I always get
so depressed couple of weeks a November. I mean, it
is the most abrupt of changes in holidays, because you
know Christmas it ends, and you know you still have

(06:38):
the stuff going for a bit. Thanksgiving is a non
holiday at this point in our lives. Uh, New Year,
same thing. You have that like New Year's staggering of
like the city or town that you're in. Yeah, likes
new start for me again. Fourth of July left over
fireworks are going extra food. But yeah, Halloween abruptly stops

(07:00):
for that day. It's it's all decorations go down, and
it's because it immediately is shifting the holiday time and
it's a totally different vibe. I'll know. Halloween. Christmas is
also very spooky because the man is coming into your house.
Yeah yeah, oh yeah, and lesson not even can started
on the Black Christmas references too. Yeah, I'm so excited
about the news. Shout out to April Wolf. It was crazy.

(07:22):
I was in uh the h I think which whichever
the theater, Oh, it's the Pacific Theater by the Americana,
and then it had her um poster up and it
was like written by April Wolf, and I was getting
ready to snap a picture and then it's the digital
one so it went away and it was like, I
hate technology. It was just like a popcorn ad. Yeah
oh yeah yeah here like and then someone's walking up

(07:44):
like this guy really loves popcorn, and you're like, I
need to order this to my house. Yeah, but so
this spook Toober. Before we like go into today's side,
I just want to have a retrospect. We talked about
Candy Man, we talked about the Haunted Man, Ancient at Disneyland.
We talked about our real monsters and uh, and then

(08:05):
we also talked about the Child's Play series. And these
are all just kind of like very specific properties and
this one that we're doing today is bigger than that.
We're talking about Stephen King, We're talking about a mind.
We're talking about, you know, one of one of the
biggest names in horror. I feel like and you can

(08:25):
correct me because you did make a face. Uh. I'm
just excited. Yeah, because to me horror Mount Rushmore is
Clive Barker, Wes Craven, Stephen King. And I know I'm
missing two more people, so I'll let you the horror queen. Uh.
I don't know, those are really good. I kind of
pop Elvira of course, of course you cannot have Halloween

(08:49):
without Elvira. Yeah. Absolutely. John Carpenter as well needs to
be up there. Very sorry, to John Carpenter for forgetting Yeah,
he's pretty grumpy already. We don't know already he's going
to leave a one star review. Mary Shelley, Yeah, you know,
and one of the original voices of horror. The reason
that we have so many of the tropes and maccab

(09:11):
ideas we do it. Oh yes, Shirlie Jackson too. Sorry,
I'm just like thinking about all the women who helped
us get to But it's super It is super excited
to talk about Stephen King because so many of his
works have been adapted. Today when we're recording, not when
this is released. But I just released a sponsored post, uh,

(09:35):
the first sponsored post I've done for BuzzFeed, but it's
for Dcor Sleep the Shining. I'm so excited about it.
It looks incredible and it's so funny too, because you know,
BuzzFeed comments are all over the place. They can really
you never know what it is. And I was very
surprised to go into this sponsored ad and see a
lot of people real hype for the movie, so they

(09:57):
didn't really hate the video because I feel like typically
winning things just an add on any media platform. People
like the man, but or does that like a lot
of people who watch BuzzFeed videos are teenagers. So the
last time I was on BuzzFeed, there like, did she
put an eyeline around and she was drunk? That's the
look I'm going for. Leave me alone, children. But yeah,

(10:20):
someone said that Doctor Sleep was one of the best
books that they've read. Doctor Sleep is incredible. I think
it's one of his best um modern books, I guess,
like the last ten years or so. It also makes
me realize how timely it is that we're doing uh,
Stephen King right now, which, if I haven't said yet,
we're talking about Stephen King. Realized I did a lot

(10:42):
of Oh no, I did all the Mary Shelley research,
but we're talking about Stephen King. And yes, if you
don't know Doctor Sleep, because there was a lot of
people who in the comments were like, um, oh, I
didn't know this was a sequel to The Shining yet,
because it's very um, it's nebulous. It has a totally

(11:02):
different feeling to it, and it's about like little Danny
grown up trying to live a different life. So the
tone of it is very different. It's not what you
to mean, what you would think of as a natural sequel. Yeah,
it doesn't have anything to do with the hotel, and
it's like, how this shining has appened. Yeah, that's that's
what I was gonna say, is like it feels like
the shining is about the hotel, whereas Dr Sleep is

(11:24):
following the the mythos of the shine and what it
means and everything around that, which I feel like is
the perfect way to do a sequel to that, absolutely,
because like what horror stories are out there, I mean,
everyone you want to hear more about the myth like
you have a special power. How does that affect you
in everyday life? Yeah? I know, so it's it's uh,

(11:46):
it really is exciting. And you know, check that out
next week. It's it's coming out October November eight, so
that should be Yeah, that that'll be next week. That'll
keep your Halloween spirit go. Yeah, yeah, that's for you.
They did it for you. But let's start this off
how I start off every episode, which is jumping into
the nitty gritty. Stephen Edwin King born September twenty one,

(12:10):
ninety seven is an American author of horror, supernatural fiction, suspense,
and fantasy novels. His books have sold more than three
hundred and fifty million copies, many of which have been
adapted into feature films, mini series, television series, and comic books.
King has published sixty one novels, including seven under his

(12:30):
pen name Richard Bachman, and six nonfiction books. He has
written a He has written approximately two hundred short stories,
most of which have been published in book collections. Uh so,
what is what is your relationship with Stephen King and
his works? I can't pick apart my life from Stephen King.
I feel like he has been he was born alongside

(12:52):
of me. I my parents also, my mom specifically really
likes horror and my one of my oldest memories is
her reading pet cemetery and like the original paperback cover
was this cat's face, like really big and teeth and
like green eyes. It was so frightening, and I would
see it on her bedside table and I'd be like

(13:13):
shook to the core just from the cover. And much
like watching or going to the video store and seeing
horror vhs on the shelves, the art on the outside
of his books, and like the eighties and nineties was
so so much more disturbing. I couldn't even conjure in
my head what was in those pages, and my mom
would always be like, this isn't for your If I
was looking through it, she's like, this isn't appropriate for you.

(13:34):
And then of course the taboo of that it's just
so exciting. So I think I finally started reading them
like middle school at thirteen fourteen, I was like, I
am a woman. Now I'm reading Stephen King. Yeah, you
can finally like delve deep and yeah, yeah exactly. I
think when the Shining mini series came out, which was
the one that Stephen King directed because he hates the

(13:55):
Stanley Kubrick version, Uh, that came out and I was like, Okay,
I am for this. And when I watched that, I
felt like very proud of myself because it's extremely scary
to me as a kid. And then I started reading
the books. I was like, I made it through the
mini series. Time for the novels. Yeah, I mean which
was which do you prefer? The Stanley Kubrick or the

(14:17):
TV series? Well, they're hard to compare us. Stephen Webber
is no Jack Nicholson, um. But it's hard when you
really admire, Like I love the book, The Shining scares
me every time I've read it, probably like three times
and it upsets me every time I read it, and
there's tons of surprises in it. So I do like
that the mini series is adheres to the story more

(14:40):
and but I mean, of course, everybody knows that Kubrick's
is a visual masterpiece, and so you kind of have
to just like separate yourself from the fact that King
doesn't like it because it has so much going for
it visually, it's so iconic, and it's been parodied so
many times and it's left left an indelible mark on
our culture. Well, that's kind of a like kind of

(15:04):
I don't want to say normal, but common thing that happens. Right,
That King does not end up liking the adaptations, Well,
I think it's so hard to do with Stephen King
adaptation because a thing that people either love or hate
about his books is that there's a ton of exposition.
There's a ton of emotional background on every character. A
friend of mine hates his books because he says that

(15:25):
two or three pages will be dedicated to the way
a chair looks, And for me, I'm just like yes,
because like, you get me deep into that chair space
and then something like crazy supernatural happens. It's even scarier
to me because everything is so normal for so long
and they're like what that fact like scared so quickly,
and also because you are like picturing it more like

(15:47):
I feel like that adds to the horror because as
you read it, it gets more developed and it just
kind of grows more. Absolutely. Yeah, and that's I feel
like because people think of him as just like, I
don't know, Airport, paperback, fluff. All of his movies, a
lot of them have been adapted that way, and so

(16:07):
all of the things that make his work really special
gets lost, whereas Kubrick took all the visuals that were amazing,
heightened that, but still left out any of the interesting
like expository work. Yes, so of course the mini series
gets that down, but it's not visually quite a stunning
Oh of course. Yeah. I think my relation with Stephen

(16:30):
King is more cinematic than his books. I've seen a
lot of the films inspired, like Missed, which is actually
one of the films that he likes. He said he
likes the ending of the movie more than he Missed.
I hate the Missed, and I'm like the only horror
fan that hates the miss I think it's depressing as hell,
and I think it's like needlessly nihilistic. I was angry,

(16:53):
like I love a lot of things, and usually like
even the worst movie, I can be like, but you
know what I had going for it, and I think
the missed as great, but that final act reveal it
made me so mad. I was depressed for like twenty
four full hours and then anybody who looked at me,
I was just like like me mugging, and I loved it.
I was like, oh, this is such a wow, what

(17:15):
a twist rowney Yeah, and so and it's almost like
a lesson lesson of like giving up hope, like you
don't yeah, which is like, which is like the most
like hard way to say that, but it is like yeah,
that's and that's kind of what I took it as

(17:35):
is like this they gave up hope and unfortunately, like
it was just around the corner. And so because that
to me is like such a strong message and from
a horror movie, which is typically all hope is lost. Yeah,
that's a great point. I didn't read it like that
to me. To me, it read is kind of like
a ha ha, like you um sort of yeah again,

(17:58):
like a nihilistic four chance like, yeah, mess around like
I got you, oh man, Yeah, but yeah, so I
miss it. Of course. Did you love the mini series
as a kid? I feel like, yeah, I was freaked out.
I didn't see it much beyond that. I think I
haven't seen it since. And then I went and watched
the new one, which was an interesting an interesting tale

(18:21):
of like using parts of a novel without giving all
of it because then it just sends mixed messages and
doesn't pay off. I mean, just a quick one is
just the opening, the opening. I think just landed. Just
felt bad because you didn't know that this is because
of Pennywise's influence, that this hate crime is happening, because

(18:43):
you have a movie that takes place in a podunct
middle of America town. So if you see someone being homophobia, like, oh,
this is just a statement about the town, and you
totally missed that. No, this is penny Wise is influence,
and this is why it leaves right and the whole
town is rotten. And the fact that no one cares.
That's of the most interesting things about Diary to Me,
and the apathy that runs throughout all the adults, and

(19:05):
how when you move away you forget and it's like, yeah,
that's part of Pennywise, like you good, how bad things are,
and so you don't fight back. Yeah, And it's funny
because they really hit home on that part, which I
didn't really or I probably just didn't remember from the
first one, but they really hit home on that part
without really going into the influence, which is as simple
as a line for Isaiah Mustafa, who didn't have enough

(19:27):
lines anyway. Yeah, and we're doing other things, like maybe
not just that act. I mean, there were so much
time spent on that hate crime when they could have
been it could if you had to have that, you
could have had other stuff woven in. Of course they
took that scene directly from the book. That's how the
book opens. Yeah, and I read that again. I was like, like,
way too young for that book with all the child
orgies and all the crimes. And that was my big

(19:51):
ping against it, is like you had the sense to
like never touch this child orgy, but like you're like,
we gotta get this hate crime in. Yeah, And it
was just so real stick it felt like it was
happening to really yeah really, oh boy, there's nothing and
I just are already have any type of hate crime
displayed in movies by someone who's asked I think I

(20:11):
can kick. It's just always super hard for me where
it's like, oh, if I was there, right, cream be
so cream. Also any time of film is being made
by somebody who is not of that I don't know
about exactly so because I feel like it comes from

(20:32):
this sort of well, it's the same thing, like it's
the same thing of just like not really knowing the
gravity of throwing it in there. It seems to flippant
almost like you know when uh, when male writers add
rape to a woman's story for her growth and not
and just kind of how flippantly it's kind of us like, oh,
this is the hardest thing a woman could go through.

(20:52):
It's like, no, there's tons of other hard things. Actually
it's lazy. And I will say that that's one of
the things I think Stephen Kane goes back and forth on.
There's a number of his books where I think that
the female protagonist is so interesting and complex and scary
or tough a funny, But then other books or other
sections of those same stories, rape is such a large

(21:14):
part of it, And I feel like I can never
quite put my finger on where he is. Yeah. I
will say I did read one work of Stephen King,
which was his short story The John. Have you read that? No?
I don't think so. Oh it's really really good. It's
like a sci fi horror story. That's uh that in

(21:35):
the future. Uh, they travel galaxies through this thing called
the Jaunt. And in the Jaunt, essentially you're traveling like
you're traveling for years, but it only because they put
you to sleep. It makes it feel like seconds. But
and they tell you not to You cannot not to go,
not to be awake, because then you will age. And

(21:58):
it's it's and you know, horror ensues, but it's really
it's and just the reveal at the end and the
I think that's why I got to taste the flavor
of Stephen King without you know, getting any bad side
because he did take you know, the like descriptive nous
of like the reveal is was like, oh, this is great.

(22:23):
But we're gonna get into Stephen King, his life, his
early life and all that good stuff and leading up
into a wide open discussion of his books and the
things that inspired them. After this break and we're back,

(22:44):
but we're joined. There are now four guests in the studio. Yeah,
well we've mentioned to me she's been you know, you'll
hear it throughout the pod, usually drinking cereal real loud.
And I can't even be mad about that because I
know that's definitely my d and a that is doing that.
But yes, the Queen Danny has arrived and you know,

(23:07):
we're just talking about a relationship to you, Stephen King,
So do you want to just join in before we
jump into this monster of a bio. I think mine
would have to be the shining. I think that that's mine.
I think aside from my name being Danny, like everyone
always does that, Um, what is it, Mrs Danny's not here,
Mrs Torrance or whatever. Yeah, and come playing with us, Danny.

(23:29):
Yeah that one. Everyone did that to me. Um, so
please keep doing that. Never gets old. Yeah, so that, uh,
you know, and it's so funny because when we're exposed
to these as children, I'm really it was the parts
that I could see, right, so like a lot of
times my parents would have me cover my eyes and
like you know, I could only see like so much.

(23:50):
So to me, that's so fascinating. I don't remember until
I was older, this scene with the Old Lady. Yes,
so you were allowed to watch like those types of
movies when you're a kid, Yes, Like I remember watching
True Lies Total callback. Uh. And there's a very sexy
scene with Jamie Also, my we talked about Jamie Lee
Curtis when you were here last time. Um, but yeah,

(24:13):
this scene, there's like a sexy scene with her, and um,
I couldn't watch that, But of course I did, Like
my parents would do a thing where like I don't
know how, but they would somehow like stop it and
fast forward, like maybe they'd just be like, get a snack.
But there were all these gaps in movies that I
watched as an adult, and I was like, what are
all these deleted scenes that I'm seeing for the first time. Yeah,
so the one with the old woman was so triggering

(24:35):
and scary. And I do love that they have, um
Halloween Horror Nights. Last year they had a shining experience.
I don't know if you went to it. I went
to halleen Horn Knights last year, but I don't. I
think it was two years ago. I feel like it
was it, Yeah, because I went last year and it
wasn't there. I wish I could. Oh, yeah, maybe it right.
It was like, you're right, it was two years ago. Yeah.

(24:56):
It was like a maze. Uh, you could go through
the maze from the movie. And then also there was
a scene uh with the here's Johnny you know in
the acts, and I was like, how often did they
switch out these um actors because that would be exhausting.
Oh yeah, totally fries your vocal cords to scaracters. Yeah.
Well that was what's so funny, because you know, I've

(25:17):
been trying to get people to go to hord Nights
and they're like, if you hate scary things, why would
you go? But I was like, universal, like when they're mazes,
they recreate like some of the like when I went
like my whole tune change when I did the Halloween
maze and you're walking through the house and you're seeing
scenes from the movie. I was like, this is terrifying,

(25:39):
but this is also like on a nerdy level, cool
to see, like walking through the living room and seeing
on the news the Michael Myers murders and then it
goes back to when he's a kid and you can
see him getting ready to stab his sister. Like that
stuff as scary as it is, and it is scary,
Like the coolness kind of like made it worth it,
And then I think, I'll so did the Freddie versus

(26:01):
Jason May's and the stuff they did there were whild
like I was scared, but it was also they were
scaring me in such creative ways that I was laughing
because I was like why. There was like one where
he like literally pops out of a window in the
side of the wall, and I'm like, how would I
even prepare for this? This year? They have us And

(26:24):
it's so dope because they have a scene where it's
Lupeta versus Lupeta and I'm like, this is so cool.
So was it just the tether's kind of coming at you?
But but it's also the regular family trying to fight
for their lives. But yeah, it's and you're in the
mirror house, right scary? That was really scary In the
New movie Chapter two, that was one of the best

(26:46):
scenes mirror houses like classic cinema like suspense, because you
know it's like two people searching for someone and like
you see him or do you? You know? Yeah, they
aunt and yeah, I really I really did like that
scene and just the guilt that they kind of forced
him to go through that like I like, you know,

(27:08):
almost like philosophical horror, where it's where it's like it's
not technically scary for the person, but what it's doing
to that or I guess you would say like more
mental like what it's doing for their mentality because it's
putting them in a situation where he cannot save this
person and he's been trying so hard. Absolutely, Stephen King
is great at that. There's just like a ton of anguish,

(27:30):
especially in his short stories. It's like what a person
can do to another person, and like the sort of
what's great about it is that the apathy that people
have and how that can deteriorate and turn into like
a monster. It's I think it's some of his strongest
work is when he explores the stuff that's not just supernatural. Yeah.
So what are some of his other connecting factors between

(27:52):
his works? Do you notice like a common thread? Oh? Yeah,
I mean that's my favorite thing about Stephen King is
that all of his books are connected. And I'm I
know you two are, like you mean, in the same universe, right, Yes, yeah,
so I know you guys are huge Marvel Universe people.
I have I don't have a comic book background, but
I can meet you at that level where it's so
fun to see characters and stories we've in and out.

(28:14):
And the cool thing about it, and I think they
really missed an opportunity is that it is a huge
connecting um tier to everything else, all the other stories.
And I feel like there's a lot of money out
there for somebody who decides to start weaving these stories together,
because it's there already. I mean, horror really needs a
Marvel universe, I think, and that if you did the

(28:36):
Dark Tower series, which is it is connected to Dark Power.
That's his long like eight book series and thousands and
thousands of pages of a story that weaves all of
his books together and could be like the next Game
of Drones for HBO. Well that's that's the kind of
like tough part two about Dark Towers because all the
Stephen King fans know and just they've never been able

(28:58):
to nail it, and and it's and like people are
really excited because they're like, well it's pretty good, so
we can maybe get a good Dark Tower. And it
seems like they fumbled it yet again. Oh yeah, they
totally missed an opportunity because the whole end of the book.
It is about things that happen in the Dark Tower
and how cool it had been to do that. It

(29:19):
would be like the end credits of a scene in
a Marvel movie where you're like, oh, who's going to
be up next? And like a call to a movie
that comes out in two more years. Do you think
they're just so scared of that giant turtle? They're like,
people aren't ready for the giant turtle? You know what?
I feel like Stephen King gets a lot of flak
for like some corniness, and a big thing with the
new movies is them like making fun of Bill's character

(29:41):
for writing bad endings. Everybody thinks Stephen King writes bad endings,
but I think there's some hokey nous to it. But
if you embraced it and just did it instead of
making fun of it, I think you could do something
really weird. Because it's very similar to a lot of
stuff you love in the eighties that are like kind
of Jim Henson like that. We don't think that stuff
is cheesy, even know the Dark Crystal could be cheesey.

(30:02):
I don't know if it's because it's for adults that
people immediately then think it's corny. Well, that was the
hump they had to jump over for comic books, the
moment they allowed them to just be comic book movies
and being a shame. Like I've said that a million times,
that's when we found success. And I think so. I
think so too. I'm like, there's a movie with a
talking raccoon. I'm sure people aren't going to be that
freaked out about a giant turtle being the enemy of

(30:24):
a clown that literally shapes shifts, and like, we haven't
seen that before, So like, isn't that kind of exciting?
I would I don't know, you could do puppetry with it.
It could be a whole new kind of take on
something we haven't seen before, instead of being like, let's
not do it. And the fact that they crammed seven
wild into one movie, and then I think it turns
people off because they're like, well, that was a terrible movie.

(30:46):
It's like that was like five thousand pages of a
book into ninety minutes. That was just irresponsible and reckless decisions.
It would be doing the Harry Potter series all in
one movie exactly where honestly, it's kind of funny that
as a studio, you wouldn't want to milk that. That's
exactly what I'm saying, Like, I think it would be
so perfect for HBO or Showtime or I mean even

(31:06):
a MC. You could basically have something for ten years. Yeah,
I think that would be the move forward because I
think that's the fear is. I think when it comes
to horror, people are always afraid to do big budget
horror like there there. They love the low hanging horror
because you're going to get those international cells. You know,
it's going to be easy money. So anything that adds

(31:26):
risks to horror, I think scare studio. So I think
TV may be the way to go. Just yeah, I
mean we're in the best time for it right now.
I think everybody is looking for escape horror because we
have so much horror in our real lives that it
helps us to kind of look out and like satirize
some of that through like comic over the top horror. Okay,

(31:47):
so you know a lot about Stephen Hanging. You've read
a lot of his works. Yeah, I feel like I've
probably read I don't know, two thirds of not three fourths.
Why am I doing maths right now? And that if
not three thirdis so It's like some of his newer books,
like I haven't read Mr. Mercedes and I haven't read
like Under the Dome, but um, Doctor Sleep, I think

(32:07):
is like the newest of his novels that I'm so excited. Yeah,
we discussed it and I just I can't get enough
of the visuals. The trailer is so good. Well, I wanna, like,
you know, instead of just going through this author's life
and being like ha, and I want to bring up
things from his childhood that I feel would be an influence.
And you tell me if you've read it. One of

(32:29):
the things is that you know, uh, when King waste.
When Stephen King was two years old, his father left
his family and his mother raised Stephen and his older
brother by herself, and sometimes he had financial strain because
of that. And I feel like that is an element
that all artists, artists love pulling from their upbringing in
their parents. And definitely there's so many stories that he

(32:51):
writes about. There's a lot of domestic violence in his books,
and a lot of single women breaking out on their
own and like trying to build their lives despite like
the real life horror. And then you know something supernatural
is often woven in that too, um And so I
think that specifically speaks to stories like um Gerald's Game
or Dolores Clayborne or even Beverly in it escaping her

(33:14):
abusive husband later and the Shining definitely the Shining, Yeah,
I mean the Shining feels like it's one that is
the most connected to him because it's about the writer
who's like losing it and but also a small child
and the mom and they're like, now the mom is
scared because of this abusive husband. Yeah, yeah, he's like both.

(33:34):
I feel like he's in a way all three character probably. Yeah,
I'm sure you're aware of what people believe is Stephen
King's horror writer origin story, which is as a child,
King apparently witnessed one of his friends being struck and
killed by a train. Though he has no memory of
the event, his family told him that after leaving home
to play with a boy, King return speechless and seemingly
in shock. Only later did the family learn of the

(33:56):
friend's death. So everyone suggesting that that psychologically inspired why
he does such dark you know works, but there's no
nobody has ever. Yeah, I don't think Kings like, yeah,
that's what I'm spooky. But oh my gosh, this is
so fascinating to me as someone that deals with trauma,

(34:17):
the links to which your brain will go to protect you.
So he witnessed the murder of a child, Yeah, his
friend being killed by a train, and um, completely blacked
that out, because how can you keep going on, right,
especially when you're a kid. That's why a lot of
people that deal with trauma don't remember elements of their
childhood definitely. And then it comes out in other ways, um.

(34:39):
And I mean, of course, like a story like The Body,
which goes on to be one of his most famous
movies stand by Me about kids finding a dead body,
and then um, yeah, near the train track exactly, and
then pet Cemetery, which is about like a kid getting
killed by a semi truck. I mean it's a large

(34:59):
part of that story. And parental grief and brother sister grief. Um.
I mean, I think you can see that kind of
woven into everything. That's where a lot of his supernatural
is up against the realistic, like something normal, awful happens,
and then ghosts and monsters are connected to that, And
I think that's a really interesting way of processing trauma. Also, Yes, absolutely,

(35:21):
I think that we do that a lot in comedy,
where it's like, well, we can't just talk about this sad,
awful thing. We're not going to just talk about the
domestic abuse, so we're not just going to talk about,
you know, seeing my friend murdered. It is there's other elements,
like you said, like that is the way that you
can connect to the audience. You can bring them in
or else it's just this awful, horrible thing that you're watching. Absolutely,

(35:42):
and like we already have so much of that now,
and I think that is why there is more horror
to examine right now, because how much more of it
can we take on the news. Maybe we can put
it through this filter of monsters, right or ghosts or
whatever that's like more easily accessible than just watching the
actual horror of the world. Yeah. Absolutely. One of um
one of my favorite books, Gerald's Game, which is a

(36:03):
book that's highly underrated and got a little more play
recently because there was a Netflix movie that came out
a couple of years ago. By the way, did you
like that? I didn't watch it? And here is why,
because like it's trigger warning a lot about sexual assault
and a friend of mine told me that that was
like there was a lot of scenes of that, and I,
whereas I have no problem actually reading about it, watching

(36:24):
sexual assault as like entertainment, Like I just can't do it.
It's the most triggering thing to me. So I was like, Oh,
I really love the book though, And the book is
one of the most frightening books. And it's just a woman.
The plot is that it's a woman who is like
playing having sex games with her husband, is handcuffed to
the bed. He has a heart attack during and dies,

(36:45):
and she's handcuffed to this bed and can't get out,
and like, but she starts seeing somebody in the room
with her, and so it's like there's a supernatural element
to it. So she's by herself and she's reliving bad
things that happened to her, but then also thinking that
there's a scary element in the room, and like for
one person to have like a four page book and
have that be fascinating. It's one of the scariest books

(37:07):
I've ever read. Just the idea of being alone with
your thoughts of trauma, but then also a spooky person
who's maybe watching you. Like it's it's really really good.
Did you watch the movie or no? No, I just
I also think that that concept is really fascinating that
it takes place all in this one kind of singular
with this woman. Um not quite the same at all,

(37:28):
but just what popped in my head is do you
remember that movie with the pay phone where he was
stuck in the pay phone? But like, to me, any
time that you could eat, whether people loved it or not,
any time that you can be in the singular moment
and kind of like health time go what did I say, payphone?

(37:49):
I don't have enough change, but for you to be
for you to be riveted by this like I always, uh,
I like that risk. I always have a lot of
respect for people that can that can that can show
something in like real time like that absolutely in one
location which one looks really great at. And that's what's
so exciting about the Shining is just that it's like

(38:09):
one small place that goes on for an endless kind
of amount because it is connected to this other universe
of souls that are in there and stuck in there,
and it's it's neat because I like the idea of
like the world that you see is bigger and greater,
and crazier than you could ever imagine. And he's really
great at exploring that. Have you gone to either of
the Shining Houses? I know there's a miniseries, there's a

(38:33):
TV one house, right or No, what am I thinking of?
There's the hotel, the hotel, there's there's inside, Okay, that's
what I'm thinking. There's the inside, which is one one hotel,
and the outside, which is a different hotel. Yes. So
the Stanley Hotel in um Estes Park, Colorado. I got
to go to it two years ago, and that is

(38:54):
the one that he stayed at and that that when
he wrote it. Yeah, and so I went to the
room and I got to like, well, we weren't supposed to,
but I snuck up there like my little picture in
front of it, like the room that he like wrote
a lot of it in. Which was another reason that
hotel was really fun is it's also where they filmed
Dumb and Dumber when they're an aspen at the hotel.

(39:14):
So I was just like the two sides of my
personality were just like lighting up, like horror and comedy.
Um and they have a lot of drinks on the
menu that are Shining inspired, which is really cute and
fun also, and then there's the one that was the
actual outside of Outside, which I think is in Washington State.
I could be wrong, but I haven't gotten to see
that one. I wanted to talk real quickly about some

(39:35):
of his influences, because I know that he's influenced a
lot of artists, but it looks like some of his influences, Uh,
Edgar Allan Poe as you would make so much. So
does everyone else on here to be honest, HP Lovecraft,
j R. R. Tolkien, Ray Bradberry, Bram Stoker, of course,

(39:56):
Shirley Jackson, Richard Matheson My Baby, who wrote a bunch
of that sounds awkward, especially looking at this picture of him,
because he's just an old guy in a top hat. Um,
but you won't see you as a guy in a
top hat. Yeah, you know, you're right. Um. He wrote
a lot of the Twilight Zone episodes, Uh, William Faulkner, Um,
Alexander Dumas, Henry James and William Golden goes on forever.

(40:19):
But um, do any of those stand out to you? Yeah? Definitely,
I think especially somebody like brom Stoker, who was inspired
to write Dracula because of tuberculosis victims, and like they
were the way that they looked, which was like gaunt
and pale, and their how their nails and hair kept
girl as it does everybody. Your nails and hair keep
growing after death. But people at the time would dig

(40:41):
up tuberculosis victims and see that and think they were
still alive because they didn't know scientifically that that's what
happens to everybody's body. So he used all these things
that were real, real diseases to create a larger horror,
which is a really big part of Stephen King's work,
especially one of his most popular books, The Stand, which
was a mini series iffy at best, Like, there's some

(41:03):
really great characters in it, but then there's also like
a lot of magical Negro stuff. Um, there's a lot
of rape in it. It could be it could definitely
have some new life breathed into it. But I love
the book and sprawling epic stories like J. R. R. Tolkien. Um,
I think The Stand and then The Dark Tower. If
you like The Lord of the Rings like you will
love the Dark Tower series and understand while it was

(41:24):
in high school, the Dark Tower was blowing up like
everyone was reading it. Yeah, everyone, like anybody who likes
it every time somebody at loving it. You gotta also
understand I was hanging out with the weaves and comics.
Weren't you in like anime club or something. No, it
was a martial arts club, which was a undercover fight club.
Oh that's much tougher because we're blasting like the like

(41:49):
song from Blade and the Mortal Kombat techno music while
sparring on the mats. We were the dorky is did
you cover pseudonyms? Richard Bachman? We did not talk about Bachman,
which I really love. Backman stuff is still good and
I really love the reason that he did it, which
was that he was worried. I think this is the

(42:11):
thing that probably happens to you if you get popular
enough that you're like, do people like my work or
they just like my name and they'll do watch and
do anything that I do. And he's successful enough to
do this though, yeah, because like anyone else, you would
just like wanting you would have to use your name
to try and get in places. But he was so
successful he was like, let me see if they actually

(42:32):
like me, and then like yeah, like they sold Like
I don't know, I want to say, like two hundred
thousand of his first book, which was Rage in Right,
And then once it came out that he wrote it,
then it was like a million more copies were as sold.
So it's like, yes, your name does have to do
with it, but but do you like any of those?

(42:55):
So it was raped. So under Richard Bachman he wrote
a handful of short novels We Have Age in nineteen
seventy seven, The Long Walk nineteen seventy nine, Roadwork nineteen
eighty one, The Running Man nineteen eight two, and Thinner
nineteen eight four. Um, I do actually like Dinner. I
think the movie is rough, um, but at Dinner is
really interesting, although it does have sort of like that

(43:16):
gypsy like a magical gipsy woman, which is also offensive
now it was then, But um, I really like. The
Long Walk is kind of a dystopian story about kids
who have to walk at the same pace and they
have yeah yeah, like guards around them, and if they

(43:36):
go any faster or any slower, they get killed on
the spot. Speed yeah yeah, yeah, but for walking wait
and so wait, tell me more. I'm kind of fascinating.
So with this concept, so is the whole book. These
kids are they walking somewhere because it's short novel. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
all you do so you you you drop in on
these kids as they're walking. Yeah, it's a point of

(43:58):
view through one of the kids. I you know what,
that's a good question. I don't remember if it's through
one of the kids or not. Because what happens is
the idea that everybody gets killed and the last person
standing gets like a prize. So it has sort of
like a Hunger Games kind of feel to it. And
when I was a teenager, I was so obsessed with

(44:18):
dystopian realities and that like, these things can all be possible. Um,
So I did really like that one a lot, And
I think that could be a really interesting anthology. So cool.
I wish that they did as Stephen King, and like
they're definitely more streaming services and platforms pushing towards horror anthology. Yeah, definitely,

(44:39):
And I think that Stephen King is a perfect person
to pull from. Yeah. Absolutely, And they tried to do
that with Castle Rock on Hulu. But the problem with
that is they actually wrote all of it before they
had the rights to Stephen King's work, So then what
they did they got their rights before it was finished,
so then they started shoehorning details in and so it
doesn't a hundred per scent work. There's elements of it

(45:01):
that are exciting, and I think if you're not a
Stephen King person, it could possibly get you into the universe,
which is great. But as somebody who's just like really
obsessed with this work, I'm like, his, it's just not
it's not a lot of new ground. I'll keep watching it.
By the way, I lived in Castle Rock. It is
a thousand percent haunted and it's also where I got divorced.
My house was haunted. Not even kidding. I actually was

(45:23):
on like a haunted podcast talk about how haunted my
house actually are. When we moved in as newlywed, our
neighbors came over to tell us that our house was haunted.
I was like, that's like a Stephen King story. It's
always a neighbor coming in to be like your life's
about to be. I was just like, thanks with information.
Just bought a house with my husband, which is very
hard to do but much easier if you don't live

(45:44):
in California. And um, this was a couple of years
ago when people could actually still get loans and stuff,
but I just want to say that upfront. Um, but yeah,
I remember them telling me that. I thought, like, how rude.
It is rude because you're like, well what do I
do about it? Now? But then its haunted? Uh? And
when I told my neighbor, they like fell into a

(46:05):
puddle on the floor, like they were so they did
not want to live across from our haunted house anymore.
I think they had seen so many tenants come in
and out of it, so you like cleared out the block,
like this block is no good, We'll just set it
on fire and let's all move to California. We're also
in the Coldest act like we were the end house. Um,
so like a bunch of bookie about that, like a
dead end. Your house is the dead end. We have

(46:27):
to take a really quick break. We're gonna hop more
into Stephen King right after this what is if we
are back and thank you for listening to another nerdificent
here with Danny Fernandez, Lucy Tomlin Brenner. You know, I

(46:48):
mean way and we're we're we're going to jump into
some you know, Stephen King essentials, you know, and guided
of course by the the Halloween Queen. You really are
like you have such a I mean, I'm sure there
are things we haven't even asked you, but we should
just like turn the mic on, just let you talk.

(47:10):
I would just start being like, okay, in theft hundreds
and I first started carving parsnips to be Jack a lantern,
like I could get real dry. I thought you were
talking about you. I'm like a hundred I thought you
were saying when I was car I'm like, she's a
hundred percent of which I respect this. We'll start this out.
I love Halloween history. She was alive back then. Re Accidentally,

(47:32):
I've been burned twenty times and I'm still kicking. There's
a twilight zone about Cleopatra. I don't Yeah, it's my favorite,
but she's like an actress today and like you know,
it kind of slips, but she wants people to know, like, yeah,
you know, because she looks so good. She's lived for
centuries and like she like kind of you know, she
keeps it a secret, but also kind of not like

(47:52):
you know, I was a queen. Um. I love that. Okay,
So what are some of the other works of his
that really resonated with you? Um? Carrie was the first
book that I read and I've always loved the book
um about a teenage girl who's finding her telekinesis powers
and how that aligns with how unpopular and misunderstood she is.

(48:15):
And it's like one of these things where like her
mom is an obsessive religious zealot, which kind of keeps
her from being popular because it's hard to come out
of that, but it also makes her weird. So none
of the kids at school like her. But she's not
into either. She just wants to live and she has
nothing but these amazing powers. And I that was something
that really resonated with me in middle school and I
first read it and I was just like, I just

(48:36):
remember fantasizing about like who I could throw across the
room with powers? Yes, it was Carrie a superhero. She
is kind of a superhero. It's just the thing that's
a bummer. Is like her powers kind of end to
her death and the death of everyone else's. But I
love people love Di Palma's seventy six version, but I
think Kimberly Pierce of Boys Don't Cry, her version of

(48:57):
two thousand and thirteen is truly a feminist like action hero,
extreme revenge horror has like an insane kill in it
that I've never seen in any other movie. And more importantly,
there's like no male gaze in it, which is a
big problem with like a lot of his adaptations are
they're directed by men, and so women are kind of
the set dressings. But like Karry, this is like her

(49:18):
story and it's about her reclaiming the power from being
both like oppressed at school and oppressed by her mother,
and it's Julianne Moore is in it as her mother,
who has clearly also had some abuse in her life,
and about her regaining power kind of through self harm,
which is interesting in a very complicated storyline, but helmed
by a woman makes it so much more interesting and

(49:38):
empowering to me. So I definitely want people to watch
that film because it makes it is closer to the book,
and it is also it fleshes out these characters in
a much more fascinating way than Brianda Palmer is able
to um again with a female director as the original
pet Cemetery by Mary Lambert is a really great adaptation

(49:59):
of the book. Book is a little more campy and
its horness is just like very intense, very brutal. The
entire time. It's not as intellectual some of his other books,
but it is NonStop scary if you want to just
read something that's just like boo boo boo um. And
I really like Mary Lambert's version and the remake I
was excited about, but it's just such a modern bomber,

(50:21):
like a lot of like just jump scares, loud music, dark, Yeah,
just chief scares instead of building up to it. Yeah.
I hate that we're talking about, you know, the for
lack of a better term, women's touch on Carry. And
there's something about the writing of Carry that I want
to like point out that I think is a just
a good writing tip. Uh. In nineties seventy three with

(50:44):
the novel Carry, it was accepted by the publishing house
Double Day, but it was going to be his fourth novel,
but it was the first to be published so for Carry.
The novel actually began as a short story that was
supposed to be for the Cavalier magazine, but King tossed
the first three pages in the garbage can and it
was actually Tabitha King who finished the pages out of

(51:06):
the garbage and encouraged him to finish the story, and
she said that she would help him with the female perspective,
and he followed her advice and then we had to
carry so it was like so even he knew he
was like, I'm bad at writing women, and he was like, oh,
if I just talked to one and help her out,
and you know, yeah, talking to women can really help
you create any well. Yeah, and that's like whenever somebody's

(51:30):
like because you know, sometimes I'll get and even sometimes
listeners have hit me up and be like, you know,
you and Danny talked about you know, white folks writing
you know about people of color or women of color
and all this like what is the thing. I was like,
We'll send it to a person of color, woman of
color because they let them and let them know, like
like like let them know, be honest, because it's honestly

(51:54):
if you if you would, if I would have got loquishia,
I would have been like ye no, oh my gosh, chief,
I'm gonna say the same. Yeah. No. I definitely think
he struggles with that with his black characters as well.
He does that like gross thing that I think a
lot of writers that they might still do it, but
definitely in the seventies and eighties where it's like describing

(52:16):
their skin like food. Yeah, you know, and like using
slang that's just so over the top and so unnatural
that like you don't even realize you can cringe while
you're reading a book. It's just like, oh, I'm shuddering.
When when Lee Unchorage wanted to do Coco, like they
were like, okay, but you need to immerse yourself. You
need to go to Mexico. You need to be there.

(52:36):
Um and actually, like you know, so he's not just
like writing something that he's not familiar with. And of
course he also brought on um Adrian Molina. But yeah,
you need to work with people of color or women
are like anybody whose voice is not your voice because
other right, we talked about this with it um. Chapter
two starting with a hate crime, like if you are

(52:56):
a person who's not affected by hate crimes, brought it
by someone who is because it's so tone deaf otherwise
and triggering, super triggering. Um, I wanted to talk about two.
How I saw Secret Window a rear window. Oh man,
I love secret windows, Secret Windows. Secret Garden is a
short story and then it was made into a movie

(53:17):
just called a Secret Window about a writer who is
plagued by a man who keeps insisting that the book
that he's famous for was written by this insane man
who keeps showing up at his doorstep day after day.
And they made the movie in like two thousand and
five thousand and six, with Johnny Depp and John Taturot
being the guy who shows up on his footstep on

(53:37):
his doorsteps saying you stole my story over and over
throughout the entire movie, and that for me is enough
to love a movie. Um, it's Johnny Depp. Um. At
the last time I think he was cute, he is
abusive and the worst. But Weekend acknowledge he was like
a heart job in the nineties. The last time he
was cute was when he was in this movie. And

(53:58):
he's actually like pretty good in it. Uh. It is
actually a very underrated adaptation. There's just a couple of like, yeah,
so he's super known for horror. I know you were
talking about Creep Show, which has it's which is out
now a new version of Creep Show yea on um
shutter yeah anthology series, so that one isn't all based

(54:18):
on his stories like some of them are, like the
original Creep Show movies. He did with George Romero of
Donna the Dead, um Night a Living Dead zombie fame,
and a couple of those were based on his short stories,
and then a couple of them were like original stories
and they split directing. And he also cameoed in one
of the original creep Show Saidila, I know that he

(54:41):
cameoed in it too, but like he likes to pop up.
He's like m Night Shamalan. Yes, he I love and
I love a cameoke. I don't think it's cheesy. I
think it's cute, like you worked hard, show your face. Um.
He directed the only movie he ever directed, Maximum Overdrive,
which everybody thinks is like one of the worst horror
movies ever, but it's like a little fun. He cameos
in that and people think it's like one of the

(55:02):
worst cameos ever. Um. But yeah, he's in this one
where basically mold takes over it like some kind of alien.
Mold takes over his whole house and his whole face.
And there's some really good gifts of their out there
of him covered in green grass. If you need a
good Stephen King gift, Can you talk to me a
little bit about the Green Mile because it just feels

(55:23):
like such a turn, but maybe because I'm not familiar
with his work. Um, it's it's a turn if if
you're thinking of him as like a just a prolific
horror writer, which he is, but he does do a
lot of work like Shawshank Redemption. I'm sorry, yes, also
that before definitely Like so, he's written a ton of

(55:44):
books that actually don't necessarily have horror horror elements. So
Stephen King, one of the inspirations that we didn't talk
about was his love of crime and detective novels and
Elmore Leonard is an author that he has been very
inspired by, and so I think that when he explore
something like The Green Mile, what's really interesting about it
is that it came out serially like it's a really

(56:06):
large book, but originally it just came out chapter by chapter,
which is something that they used to do back in
like the forties and fifties, where you would just get
part of a crime novel like every week or every month.
And so he was trying to use that element in
a new way with a new story, and that's how
The Green Mile came to be. And he wanted to
use that UM Prison Um, the grayness of like who's

(56:31):
really bad, who's really good? That comes up in a
lot of his work, and I think it is interesting
because when you deal with monsters and the supernatural, there's
a big bad and then there's the good and you're
fighting each other, especially in the stand which is just
about good and evil. But when you start exploring um, crime, uh,
police prison systems, it becomes this grayness of some people

(56:54):
are about some people are good. And I think through
his work that is not straightforwardly super now trull, he's
able to explore the like gray upsetting nous of our
real society. So it's still very challenging. And then he
weaves a little bit of supernatural elements into the green.
Well those all those UM stand by Me and the

(57:15):
Shawshank Redemption and the Green Mild, they all have horror
elements to them, like something terrifying that happens or crime.
Like you said, so that that is still fascinating. Um.
But Okay, so you've read so many of his books
and still are reading his books. Have you noticed a
change in his writing style over the years. Um. I
think that there's more nuance as he you know, knows

(57:38):
more about the world ages as we all learn that
some things are like not appropriate anymore, or things that
are more interesting the older you get. Um and ideas
that he keeps coming back to related to the Dark Tower.
So the thing that I love about his books is
it always has the nuance and the expository writing where
he explores everything in minute details, which I love. But

(58:00):
then I think he has flushed out characters every decade
more and more and more and made them, like made
the female characters way more interesting and more in depth
and less caricature e. And I will also say that
I think his scary stuff is more about the world
being scary and less like haunted dogs, you know. But

(58:23):
I think his style that I love has stayed true.
It's like every time I opened a Stephen King book,
it feels like I'm at home, and it reminds me
of like being a teenager under the covers and just
being like, m this feels like secret scary. I love that. Um, Well,
I guess what are some other things? I know that
it's impossible to talk about this man's ripping the table

(58:45):
because there's so many things. Now nobody writes this woman,
she clearly knows everything there is to know and if
we could go for four hours, she really would. I
hope that you get asked to be in a document
I got asked to be in a documentary for Twilight Zone.
I was like, finally, the one thing that I know
the most of asides Wonder Woman and anime, um, the
one thing. Well, everybody that listens to this has to

(59:06):
hear me reference it. But Rod Serling is the reason
I became a writer, one of the biggest reasons, and
so so much of that and what I deal with.
You know, Stephen King is the reason I love horror.
That was my Stephen King, and I guess maybe Fear Street,
although I don't want to give our els time that
much credit, but like, reading those as a tween got
me interested in like this idea of greater worlds all

(59:29):
around us, with like spooky tentacles coming out of the darkness. Um.
And I think there's so many there's so many books
that haven't been turned into movies, so you probably haven't
heard about. And I think a lot of people think
that books after the nineties aren't as good. There's this
idea that like his early work as his best work,
but like movie or excuse me books like Insomnia one

(59:49):
of my favorite books. It's so weird and it's so
creepy about like the idea that everybody has a life
force that can be like we're connected to stroy ings
and that there's these supernatural beings that try to cut
our strings and that's how you die. It sounds cheesy,
but it is extremely sinister and disturbing and makes you
wonder if they're like what's around me all the time.

(01:00:12):
And it's very heavily connected to the Dark Tower. So
if you're interested in the Dark Tower at all, but
you're not sure if you want to commit to eight books,
if you like Insomnia, then it'll throw you into it
full force. So I love that book. I love a
Bag of Bones, which and then came out in like
the late nineties. It's a really classic ghost story and
it's basically a cabin next to a lake and man

(01:00:35):
is being haunted by his wife and maybe something else.
Uh So it sounds really simple, but there's so much
emotional core to it. It's also connected to the Dark Tower.
See what I mean, they have a cash cow in
their hands. Uh So, I definitely think people should check
those books out. Um and Short his short story collections
are bar none like if you don't want to commit

(01:00:56):
to an elevene like it, uh, get like every things eventual.
That's one of my favorite short story collections. It has
fourteen o eight in it, which was remade, which was
made into a movie with Samuel Jackson and John Cusick,
which is a pretty good movie, but was Yeah, it's
I just rewatched it and I'm like, this is still scary.
By the way the mist scared the rap out of it.

(01:01:16):
We did dug. Yeah, it's a very upsetting. It messed
me up. The actual novella is very scary too, and
not even just the ending, but the actual monsters they created.
I mean, I'm sure that he was super graphic in
the novel. I didn't read the novel. I just saw
the movie and it was traumatizing. Yeah, No, it's really scary.
I'm always scared of the idea that, like in a disaster,

(01:01:39):
supernatural or otherwise, the way that people could turn against
each other and you depend on each other to survive.
It gets me in a very stressed place to see
that with the walking dead, like y'all need each other.
There's only so many of you humans left. I had
to stop watching The Walking Dead for that exact reason,
because I have such a control freak that I'm like, okay, listen, now,
if we put a graph together to work out we

(01:02:00):
can all survive. Um. But U is one of the
scariest short stories I've ever read, because there's a lot
of uncanny elements and he thinks about things like that
are so strange to me, like a phone rings and
he picks it up, and it's just like a strange voice,
like counting random numbers and then intersplicing I've killed all
your friends and then other numbers, and like you're all

(01:02:20):
gonna die, just like weird, like corny to just say
it now, but like when you're reading and you're like cool,
cool in a hotel, totally normal, And the the idea of
getting like a phone call like that that makes no sense.
Like I love that stuff, things that you're not expecting
that aren't just monsters but real and like why why
would this happen? Um? I really love Everything's eventual and

(01:02:42):
the like Skeleton Crew is a classic one and has
that book that you were or that story that you
were talking about The John Skeleton Crew is a very
good one too, and so you can get like his
short story collections and get like a huge jolt from
them if you're not into the expository writing and move
forth and not feel like you have to, you know,
commit to all five thousand pages of the Dark Tower. Well, honestly,

(01:03:05):
probably bring you back to just talk about the Dark Tower. Oh,
I would love to. I have like three additional books
that are just compending on your eyes just got so wide,
don't suppresent context didn't pop out? Um, well, where could
everyone cut you? You can get at me on Twitter
and Instagram at LTB Comedy Lucy Tomlin Brenner. Those are

(01:03:29):
my initials. Um. And I just started my own film
podcast because I constantly am talking about movies and movies
that I feel like everybody is missing. So I have
a new podcast called you Need to See This about
all the underrated gems in cinema, where me and my
friends try to convince people that things are worth it
spoiler free so you can listen even if you haven't

(01:03:50):
seen it, and we won't ruin anything for you, and
it's positive. It's all positive, not ragging on anything. Oh
that's fun for me. I don't have anything coming up.
Oh actually yeah, in November. I'll be in St. Louis
the weekend of the eight so yeah, come through see
me if you're in the St. Louis area. But besides that,

(01:04:12):
U tune into my Twitter and Instagram for all my
shows coming up. That's where I posted, Yeah, same here,
I have something really cool. It was kind of what
I was saying about the Twilight Zone. But I was
in this documentary, um and you know how they have
those Fathom events like before the movie starts and it's
like it'll be like check this Fathom event and you're like,

(01:04:33):
who does that? Well, it's one of those. So it'll
be in theaters I think for one night only. Uh
November four. It's the Twilight Zone, a sixty anniversary celebration.
So I saw that. I just texted that to a
friend and I was like, I have to go to this.
So I don't I know that I'm in part of it.
I think my full documentary like the full parts of me,

(01:04:53):
So I might just be in a small part of it.
Because I love that you're in it. That's so great. Yeah,
So I think what I'm actually in is in like
a DVD release. I know that they're re releasing the
toilet Zone for sixty anniversary, so we might be a
special feature. I'm not sure. I just know that I'm
going to be in part of this, and then the
full documentary is you will I will definitely post about it.

(01:05:15):
But if that is something that strikes your fancy, there's
gonna be a lot of other people in it. I'm
sure Jordan Peole will be in it because now that
he's taking it on. But anyways, that's in theaters November four.
It is the Toilet Zone sixte anniversary celebration. Finally, the
amount that I have plugged and talked about it has
paid off. That's incredible. That's the dream I am so

(01:05:36):
plugging you for. If anyone ever comes to me about
horror stuff, thank you. Yeah, I just um one of
the I'll just leave it with one last thing is
that I think that the humanity in horror is what
I love the most. I love being scared and ghosts
and monsters, but I love real people's experiences. And Stephen
King is amazing at getting at the emotional core of fear.

(01:05:59):
So it's not just us boo, but it's also like, well,
here's my life story, and then the boo is even
stronger and so I, um yeah, I really can't get
enough of those types of stories. And if you like
reading about real people going through like insane things, that's
what makes him the most interesting to me. That's so cool.
We'll have you back a promise. Great, I can't wait.

(01:06:19):
Thank you so much for having me again. This was
totally different from the Halloween one and but just as
much fun. So I appreciate it. No, we appreciate you
for coming on. Thank you so much for stopping by,
and thank you all for listening. This has been another
nertive sent and like we always say, stay nerdy, stay spooky.
Oh yeah, but last spook