Episode 85: MOBAs

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to another edition of Nertificent. I am
one half of your host, Danny Fernandez, sending it across
from me as always, if you want Danny's work husband
forever locked down, it's true, we do. We don't know
it's true to keep to marry each other if we
don't get married, people know that is absolutely not to marry. Nope,

(00:30):
we've both already been married, so we actually don't have
to do anything exactly. No. And then on top of that,
people will literally hit me up. I know people hit
you up though when they need my number, but people
will hit me up and be like, where's your work husband?
I'm like, I don't, like, are you asking about where
he is supposed to be on set? Like I don't
know where he's got I swear yours. Yours is way

(00:50):
cool Because when people hit me up, it's like, hey,
I want to hire people, like where's if he's bum bumself?
Why isn't he on your coat tails? In this? What
I was going to say is our next week, we're
having our good friend Mark ellis on and I pulled
up a picture of him and I'm like, oh, my hobby,
because like just we actually dated, like years ago. But

(01:11):
he's just like also one of my best friends. So
I just think, like, I don't know, you all have
to fight it out for ultimate best friend. Very interesting
that ye had. It's years ago. Now you said that
and you're like, yeah it is. Oh man, time is
moving way too fast. My daughter's getting older, she's learned no,
not a fan of her knowing that word. She's told

(01:35):
me to slow down. She says I drive too fast,
and I'm mad because she's right. Um, but you know,
you know how it goes. Do you want to introduce
our guests? Yes, that third voice here is the producer
of this very cast. It is a good Man and
his name is Dan Goodman. Hey, yeah, how many times

(01:57):
have people done that? Well? Actually, how many podcast do
you produce? Yeah? Um, I produced quite a few. I'm
more of like a executive producer on things like Daily Zicos,
which is mostly Ana Hosni's Beast, things like Worst Year Ever,
which is mostly Sophie Sophie Lichtman's but Chelsea Handler, which
was also Sophie's. I mostly do editing and engineering and

(02:18):
recording and stuff like that. But I you know, I've
been working with you all for a long time, over
a year. I think so before Will Ferrell invaded, before
before I Heart took over. Yeah, we do like y'all.
Uh I Heart, who obviously the president of I Heart
listens to every episode. Yeah, Bob Bittman, Hey, how are
you doing? But how you doing? Settling? It's a good one.

(02:39):
We love Mr Heart Radio. What is his good heartbeat?
His heartbeat? Um, Dan, what are you geeking out about
this week? I'm geeking out about death stranding. I think
a lot of people are geeking ot about death standing
right now. But I'm just really enjoying it. It hits that,
you know, little nerve of I don't know, package delivery

(03:02):
is like really therapeutic. I guess I'm just driving around
this weird landscape has been a lot of fun. That's
been the wild thing to me is that that is
the game. You're just a ups guy and people are
having a blast. I'm gonna get into it invidually, but
there has been an influxive game between that and Pokemon
Sword and Shield and you know, Jedi Fallen Order. I mean,
there's a lot of games coming out right now. What

(03:26):
about you, Danny Well, I thought you were going to
take mine, but I guess I get to go for
a baby Yoda. Yeah. Also, it's just like taking over
my Twitter feed, like there could not be more. I think.
I tweeted though, and I made people. I said, baby
Yoda isn't vaccinated. Remember who's obsessed with Baby Yoda? Now,

(03:46):
was like, let me have one thing that's facts though,
that's true. It's kind of true. Baby Yoda can't go
to pretty school yet. Well, and then it was yeah.
And then it was really funny because John Favreau actually
tweeted the concept art and and somebody replied, Jeremy um Simser,
who's actually working. He's like the storyboard artist from one division,
which is I think it gonna be on Disney Plus, right,

(04:06):
And so John tweeted the concept art for Baby Yoda,
and Jeremy was like, so you just went with the
first thing baby. It was like tool tee what we saw.
So anyways, that's that's a good thing. Well, what I'm
geeking out besides Baby Yoda is Pokemon Sword and Shield,
and this is the first time and they streamlined so

(04:29):
many things, and you know, some people feel some way,
some people don't. There's no longer any e V training
because they're the like stats aren't capped anymore. It's very
like when you catch or fight Pokemon, it automatically goes
through the whole party, so everyone. You know, some people
might be like it's easier, but I'm like, great, I'm
an adult now I have responsibility. So right before I sleep,

(04:50):
I can just sit back and just power level. Like
it's funny that even though it's easier, I'm like, I'm
still gonna power level, so I just one shot every
every Pokemon that comes at me. So that is kind
of like I want to say, taken over my life,
but really it's just kind of been there for me
when I just have some downtime. So that has been
popping up in the news a lot. Would you say

(05:11):
none of the hate is justified? I have no opinion
on this. I haven't played the game, and I think
all internet wining is lame. But yeah, I mean, what's
your take on it? Yeah? It this I it's very
complicated because like I as the one who like just
enjoys whatever they give to me, like in a Pokemon game,

(05:33):
I'll be fine. I mean, like it's a very fine game.
It plays just well, and it seems like the things
people are mad about are like almost like very nitpicky,
where it's like, oh, there's not the national Poka decks
and all this stuff. And I think it's I do
come from a weird place knowing like wanting to go
in the game design. Being in a place where I

(05:55):
work with gaming, I know what goes in a game design,
and a lot of time the consumer ask for things
without even considering like what has to go in it?
You know you you don't like they and and like
then like people get very like weirdly nuanced with their
thing where it's like if they would have just said
I was like, well, how about for once in your

(06:16):
life you give someone the benefit of the doubt. Now
about instead of saying like if they would have just
did this, you just go like, well, maybe they wanted
to do this and they didn't, but we don't. We're
we're at this weird place. And I and I have
a creeping suspicion, uh that they're going to release a
Snyder cut because it's because they across the board have

(06:37):
have had all the actors that have been a part
of it saying it's I think it's time to release,
and it feels like a social media campaign. And I
don't like the culture of allowing people to just yell
at yell at creators to get what they want. Uh.
I think, you know, there are some people out there
who make, you know, a like genuine criticism and desires

(07:03):
and being great about it. But for every one of
those people, there are twenty anime avatars saying heinous stuff
to creators. And and so I don't know, the game
freak thing, it seemed like just don't buy it, like
we It's always this in gaming. This has kind of
been a circular thing where like there's a large pitchfork

(07:26):
gang of people mad about something in games, and then
you have the other side that goes, then don't buy it,
but they The part that scares me is also when
it comes to casting, Like, you know, we haven't seen
that quite yet. We've seen it a little bit, and
some of the backlash with casting has been justified, like

(07:46):
if um whitewashed or something. But when I think of
like casting that I'm afraid of in that world, it
would be like when people freaked out about Heath Ledger
being cast as a joker, or even if you go
all the way back to like if there was social
media back then Michael key in being at Batman, like,
you know, nobody believed in them, and so like, is
that how far it's gonna go? Like if somebody one

(08:07):
of us here on this podcast gets cast in a
role and you know, for a superhero or a villain
and uh, and then people are all mad and they're like, no,
I wanted Gina Rodriguez. And then it's like, you know,
if enough people scream about it, are they gonna as
a studio going to give in? Like that's the thing
that kind of scares me. I'm a selfish standpoint. I

(08:28):
love love, love, love love that you used Heath Leather
Ledger as an example because I think and even now,
the same thing people were mad at Joaquin Phoenix. Now
Joker fans are like coming at anyone's neck who doesn't
like it. But they it was the same people who
were like, oh this, I don't like this. I don't
like this, And now you're threatening critics and like docs

(08:49):
and critics over the guy that you didn't want. And
then the same thing, Heath Ledger came out and now
he's untouchable. No one will beat that role. But y'all
did not like it. How about you just wait till
the movie comes out and then see what you think
before making yourself look silly by doing that. It's a
shocking problem. But and I think the thing that makes

(09:10):
it so wild is that they just pretend like that
never happened. Like you're not seeing anyone online talking about
how they were, how they were wrong about the one
they're just and that Oh Daniel Craig, remember we talked
about him being cast with James con Like, my main
thing is that, like, it scares me now because nobody
was really listening back then, like they took it in
and they were like, okay, whatever. But now that social

(09:31):
media is so prominent, it scares me that it might
seep into not just like changing story or changing this,
but actually changing the actors that are cast. I think
it'll only work for NERD properties because I think Hollywood
has a very strong ego and they'll be damned if
they let some dorks online tell them what to do,
you know, because because well, we can get them to

(09:53):
change Sonic, we can get them to uh, we can
get them to change releases nighter cut, but we won't
be able to stop them from letting white ladies write
K pop stories, you know, like like like they're they're
still gonna They're still gonna do what they want and
you know what, hey rebel, you know you might nail it.
I'll have to wait and see. But also every because

(10:15):
there was a there was a thing where like there
was the one side of me that was like, oh man,
we should wait and see. But then there's the other
side of me thinking about that, like Korean American who
was writing a K pop story, who now doesn't get
to tell tell it because now that is saying So
that's like the kind of like toss up of it
is like when someone interjects with like a specific cultural story,

(10:37):
if someone from that culture is writing that story, that
that is now harder for them to sell because they're like, well,
you know it's great. I mean they were or you know,
who knows, they'll they might have already passed on a
K pop and then they're gonna push this one cough
cough book of life, Coco, I'm looking at you. Even
though Coco was amazing and there were great Latin American people,

(10:57):
a part of Coco implicated we're talking about mobiles today. No, actually,
I will point out that that is a great segue,
because speaking of complicated and speaking of gamings, that is
what mobile's a k a. Multiplayer online battle arenas are
so uh um and they're They're also known by very

(11:20):
very very very very through a few people as action
real time strategy games, but it's a subgenre of strategy
video games that originated as a subgenre of real time
strategy games, in which each player controls a single character,
usually on a map in an isometric perspective, which is
more like a top down esque for these in layman's terms,
and you're a part of a team competing against another

(11:42):
team of players. The ultimate objective is to destroy the
opposing team's main structure with the assistance of periodically spawned
computer controlled units also known as AI, artificial intelligent units
that march forward along set paths. However, mobile games, which
is sure for multiple are online battle arena can have
other victory conditions, such as defeating every player on the

(12:04):
enemy team. Player characters typically have a set of unique
abilities that improve over the course of games, which contribute
to a team's overall strategy. Multiplayer online battle arena games
are a fusion of real time strategy, role playing and
action games. And though mobile players usually do not construct
buildings or units, there are examples of mobile games that
cannot be considered RTS at all, such as Smite and Paragon.

(12:28):
The genre is a big part of the sports community.
And that's the last I'll probably reference this doc because
this is something I do know very well. As a
matter of fact, before we even go into this, I'm
gonna just double check. I'm gonna scroll to see what
I was gonna say. Boom can't curse. And I was
really proud of how writing am Mobile's started as a

(12:52):
as a mod which mods I know, we we have,
we have even got that deep into mods really on
but mods are PC gaming, which is one of the
most fun ways to game. No no hate for my
console fan, but PC gaming. One of the big draws
to it is that you can do mods to games.
You can have like modifications. And one of the biggest

(13:14):
kind of like parts of that community was the RTS
real time strategy community because you were able to build
maps and then upload them to the game service for
people to play. But because as we know, nerds always
take things to the next level, They're like, what about
instead of maps, we just made whole new game modes.
So there are a whole different type of game modes

(13:35):
where like it wasn't just mobis. They were like some
like just like strategy, farm and shooting. Looking at the history,
StarCraft was a popular real time strategy game. Blizzard released
it in became famous in a very short amount of time. Um,
if you tell people what StarCraft? What is that? What
is it like to play it? Oh? Man, Yeah, let's

(13:56):
talk about StarCraft. StarCraft is very very very very important
to gaming and esports. Uh, it's it's it's like, just
I want to put some respect on their name. So
there was Warcraft, which eventually built the lore and led
to the game World of Warcraft, which became its own beast.
But Blizzard was like, hey, you know, let's get innovative.

(14:17):
What if we did a sci fi version of Warcraft? Now,
just to for anyone who is not familiar with the
Craft games at all. Typically it's a real time strategy game. Uh,
that kind of goes like this. You start off with
a base and you have units, and you build worker
units who can farm for resources usually minerals and gold.

(14:39):
Use those resources to build a base of barracks. Then
you upgrade your weapons for more uh for stronger units
as the game progresses, and then the first one to
destroy the other players home base wins and the game
had like a story that went along with it. But
the game as itself, like the that's the multiplayer aspect
of the game, StarCraft does the same thing. Uh, it

(15:03):
involves other races. So you have the Terrens which were
the humans, you have the pro Toss which were these
weird alien dyes in the Zourg who were these beasts.
And then like I said before, you were able to
update upload maps, and then you had mods. So StarCraft
is very important to the gaming and the sports community
because of this reason, StarCraft blew up out here very

(15:26):
much so. But as the US move on to other
games and flighty as we are, Korea stick to StarCraft
and was having huge million dollar tournaments overseas for this game,
which in turn will eventually be the thing that turns
the tide for America to finally get the picture and
go like e sports is big over here because America

(15:47):
has like always had an e sports community, but it's
always been bigger in Korea. And this is very important,
like seed to plant now because within this story you
will see how they bridge the gap between how big
StarCraft is in Korea to how it gets big over here.
It's it's within this story. Dan is shaking his head

(16:09):
in agreement, absolutely, and it's it's kind of cool. Um, Yeah,
I would say, I mean, I would say E sports
in general really like bloomed in Korea and how that
community took E sports and saw them as an event
that could honestly make money. If I'm just being real,
They were like, let's just put a bunch of money
into this. A lot of people want to watch this,

(16:31):
They're coming out to these events, and like Korean StarCraft
is where E sports was really kind of you know, exploding,
and Ye showed how it could be. I mean, like,
I think that's the thing. I mean, Danny and I
talked about it on like our episode about careers. But
really everything is driven by money. I mean, that's why
we have Transformers, you know, it was to sell toys
like money. I mean, money is the root of all evil,

(16:53):
but is also the driver of all like capitalist. Once
you get money involved, it can really catalyze a lot
of different things. But the first E sports event I
see saw on television actual television, was a Korean StarCraft
tournament being telecast on like ABC or NBC. Yeah, but yeah,

(17:13):
So we have this game StarCraft and there's a there's
a player called aon sixty four who created a map
called a on of Strife and this was like the
first brick of like the mobile game UH. And in
this map, players controlled the single unit and fall a
team against AI units in three lanes. The basis of
the two teams were at the end of three lanes

(17:35):
and the objective was to destroy the other team space.
So this is like the skeletons of a mobile, because
that's one of the main things I think. Just right off, rip,
I can tell you the wind condition and most mobiles
is to destroy the other team's main base, with their
usually almost always being three lanes, and there are towers,

(17:58):
UH tiered towers on each team side, so most teams
have two towers before you get to the inner home
base tower, and you it's kind of like a slow
game of attrition between the two teams UM. And the
reason these units are so important is because obviously since
you have UH usually about five like player characters, sometimes

(18:21):
they're going to be going to the other lanes to
help each other out and while that's happening, you still
have your AI controlled units attacking. Yeah, that was a
big development that came with a DODA after a on Strife,
and Strife was really what developed or what like set
the standard of the three lanes and then and we
don't need to move on quite yet, but yeah, it
was three lanes four v four. It was like the

(18:41):
max that the map would allow at the time, and
it was the kind of thing where players were like,
we can't really split evenly amongst these three lanes with
four players on each side, and it kind of developed
a meta of having different types of players played together
as a team in different lanes. To you know, that
just started the meta of of of two players working together,

(19:03):
one acting as a support to the other player, and
that's kind of started there. So can you, um, can
you explain what DODA is to people? Sure? Absolutely, So.
DOTA is short for Defense of the Ancients. It was
a custom map made within Warcraft three by this guy
named yule Um real name Kyle Summer Summer and it

(19:24):
really developed on the mobile developed on and Strife by
giving the map a lot more character, developing it significantly
graphically and also just shape wise and strife really played
as a left or right kind of map, whereas DODA
is much more of a square where the lanes peek
up the the outsides and insides, with a big middle
lane that goes across the center diagonally, and a Dota

(19:46):
added something very specific that has, you know, maintained throughout
all of mobile's any kind of mobile, which is the jungle.
And the jungle was the way to get in between
each lanes, and it added a whole another role to
mobile's which was the jungler, the person whose job it
was strictly to help out their teammates in their own
solo lanes. Yeah. So typically, you know, as we go

(20:09):
through the history will also be refreshing with just straight
up you know mobile knowledge. Typically the main roles that
you have for the lanes is top, which is exactly
like it sounds. The top lane, which is usually a
solo player who's pushing with usually a beef, your tanker
tank your champion, because you're doing that by yourself. Then
you have mid, which is usually like a newker champion

(20:32):
or a mage because that since that's the shortest lane,
it's a lot of back and forth and it's kind
of the most contentious point. Then you have the bottom lane,
which usually has two shared roles, which is the A
d C, which attack damage carry I think like a
glass cannon. Yeah. And then you have your support which
is there to protect the attack damage carry, making sure

(20:55):
and it's and it's not as simple as just kind
of playing because also as the support, you have to
make sure you're not stealing any of the creep kills, which,
like I said, we'd said this is complicated. Let's talk
about creep kills. So those little AI controlled units are
known as creeps, and you get experience for killing them

(21:16):
only if you get the last hit on them. So
you get you get some experience for killing them, but
you get more if you get the last hit. So
that means that the A d C has to time
that both the A d C, the top and mid
have to time their hits to make sure they get
the last hit, which means that the support needs to
be protecting them because that's where the other team will

(21:36):
try and harass to make sure you're not getting all
your last hits. It's a very I would compare it
to almost football and why I think it helped in
pushing the sports because this all sounds complicated, but if
you're watching it, it kind of makes sense. Like you
may not know like the minutiae of what's going on,
but you can kind of visually see what's going on.

(21:57):
I think like the battle of a creep is a
really good compare us into things. Like you said, with football,
it's kind of like running plays where you're using these
short kind of you know, things that you know you
can make progress on to make small leaps across the field.
It's like, if you know that you are going to
be able to get all of your creep kills, you
can really concentrate on that to create a small advantage
over your opponent, especially in the beginning of the game. Yes,

(22:19):
another thing just about the creep kills, just to go
back to that real fast that they also give you money,
which is another big important thing about mobis in general.
The money that you get allows you to buy items
back at your home base, and those items make your
character better. As well as getting experience and leveling up
making your abilities better, the items you get also buff
your abilities and your power and just make you stronger,
so that getting creep is not only just a small

(22:41):
advantage in the actual lanes. It's it's it's crucial to
your development throughout the game of getting items and leveling
up and stuff like that. So if I can just
take two steps back and suck us out into the
minution and just taking and that's where the RPG element
comes in, right because now you're having you know, you're
you're kind of doing what all across all RPGs we

(23:04):
know as a build, you're trying to build specific stats,
specific armor, specific things, and lots of players go into
this knowing what they want to buy, and that's and
that's what that's the kind of fun of it is everyone.
I mean, that's the kind of fun and the toxicity
of it, which I think will save the toxicity of
the community to uh to to later because it's there

(23:26):
and I have lots of theories why speaking of later,
we have to take a really quick break and then
we're going to hop back into Mobi's right after this,
and we're back we're still talking about Mobi's. Um if

(23:47):
you tell people about League of Legends, oh man, So
League of Legends was the first stand alone mobile game,
because at this point, when we're talking about Dota, Dota
is a mod that so I I got an a
Dota who if we go way back? I was, I
just moved back in with my dad. I'm lake Elsinore.

(24:08):
I was taking computer science courses because I still thought
I wanted to be a programmer game designer. And I
there was this kid in my uh computer science class
because because of course, and he was like, you gotta
play this game Doda. Doda is the game. And he's like, okay,
but you're gonna have to buy Warcraft three and Frozen

(24:28):
and I was like, what, like a way, you just
made me have to buy two games to play one? Uh?
And so so Legal Legends was the like first game
where you just bought. You just bought that game, and
it was a standalone game. And all these characters in
League are based off of known characters in Dota. That's

(24:50):
definitely true. I do want to point out though, that
a major difference between League and Doda was that League
has actually always been free. Yeah. League was always a
free to play game. And so when that came out
as a stand alone and people were like, wait, I
don't have to pay for this, oh, I think I
actually kind of do want to. I do want to
get into this game because of their experience with DODA
and what they heard, and then basically someone was like, yeah,

(25:11):
but you can get it for free though, and they're like, oh, um, yeah,
I'm not playing this Doda game anymore. I know. It
really did make it way more enticing. And I mean
this is another we talk about, you know, east, how
StarCraft kind of led e sports and all this. I
also want to talk about how League and soon Dota
kind of let the charge in micro transactions and eventually

(25:36):
what we've known in uh in um Fortnite and Apex
is the battle pass. Like a lot of people, I
don't think people put enough respect on the fact that
that came from like the international stuff like that very good.
Um yeah, you know everyone sleeps on it, mostly because
I think not a lot of people play Dota too.
But yes, um so yeah. The formal author of DODA,

(26:00):
which was Win Sue, partnered with Brandon Beck and Mark
Merrill to form Riot Games and developed League of Legends.
League had a similar place out of Dota, but was
developed on a completely unique map with unique champions. Most
importantly was that it was free to play, like Dan said,
and that made it way more enticing and uh, but
then In two thousand nine, the same year that league launched, UH,

(26:25):
famed Hall half Life developer at Valve announced that it
had hired ice Frog, that the moder that had taken
over maintaining Dota All Stars after Freak left for Riot Games.
And ice Frog and Valve we're working on Dota to
another standalone successor to the original DODA and UH, Dota
two was UH. What was interesting is because you might

(26:47):
be listening to this and be like, oh, then are
they the same? No, they are two very different games.
And I say that as someone who's played and kind
of plays both. DODA was incredibly faithful to the original
Warcraft three map and it had a much nicer epics
obviously because it was updated and it was free to
play as well. I just wanted to say a quick
thing about ice Frog. So ice Frog was the lead developer,

(27:08):
like if he said, for Dota two and the original UH.
In the original DODA. To date, he has remained pseudonymous,
and other than revealing that he was twenty five years
old and that and that was back in two thousand
and nine, um characteristics such as his physical description and
real name are unknown. Although it's the Internet, so I'm
sure they're known, especially in that community. Um ice Frog

(27:31):
speaks English and Chinese, which he learned in order to
better communicate with Doda's large fan base in China. Um
I just find this fascinating that this was a five
year old who was like, Oh, I know how to
make this game better. How exactly moving forward after that,
does he get paid? Oh? Yeah, No, when he got
brought onto the team, he was. But before that he

(27:52):
kind of was doing it right free. Then they were,
but then they hired him. Yeah, So before that, whenever
you saw Moths lots of time. Sometimes times they'd have
like PayPal donation stuff, but for the most part, you're
doing it for the like love of it. And this
that was the cool part about mods is sometimes you
got like you got to be a developer. I think
the closest example to that was a Player Unknown Battlegrounds

(28:17):
originally was a mod to uh Armor, which was a
very realistic war shooter, and then that turned into h
one z one, which he went and developed, and then
he went and left the h one z one team
to develop Player and Own Battlegrounds. So he went on
to develop two different games, and I believe another Armor
mod Daisy got their own standalone game. So this was

(28:40):
and this isn't uncommon, like lots of times if a
mod gets popular, they would be the person would be
tapped to make a real game. It's happening right now
again as a matter of fact, with this new game
type called auto Chess. Auto Chess another mod made out
of Dota two. So there was a modification of a

(29:01):
modification game that created this kind of chess game type
that League of Legends once again borrowed with big old
air quotes to make their own title team fight tactics.
And it's another kind of just game type built out
of the same game. And I think it kind of
goes back to what you were talking to like the
very beginning about how like the audience being able to

(29:22):
interact with the product has like positives and negatives, Like
when you're just yelling at something, it doesn't do anything,
but like when you have the ability to interact with it,
you just get the positives of negatives of people like
either play this or I don't like League of Legends.
People have been trying to mode League of Legends in
different ways. If you go to the Dota two custom maps,
there are several. It's not just auto chess. There are

(29:43):
so many different modeed things in different ways to play
the game, but auto chess was the cream that rise
to the top. And so you know, the modification community
has really I think, you know, StarCraft deserves a lot
of credit. Valve for Dota allowing this deserves a lot
of credit. League of Legend Right Games to a certain
extent being like, yes, Monty is good. We'll take those

(30:04):
ideas and do them ourselves. I mean, you're not losing
anything by no, Yeah, and in fact it might be
even getting jobs because of that. Yeah, yeah, I mean
that's the interesting thing is, like, you know, games have
been doing the fun thing of like borrowing it and
putting its own spin to it. Like I mentioned, H
one z one spawned Player Unknown battle Grounds, which then

(30:25):
spawned Epic two as a fluke at a Battle Royale
version to their like tower defense game. That was the
game they were trying to make a tower defense game,
and then their Battle Royal game blew up so much
that they're like, all right, well this is the game.
They made a billion dollars. You know, it's just so

(30:46):
funny and that now we're seeing the same thing happen
when Auto Chess, where it was a valve thing, then
Leak doesn't, and now Hearthstone is doing their own version
of Auto chest It's it's just a fun thing of
just like and one out of those people will have
a favorite. So now after League of Legends they have well,
League of Legends is kind of like it's kind of

(31:08):
at the peak right now, whereas they're developing League and
making it more and more, and uh, Dota two has
kind of also cemented itself in this place, like E
sports has really solidified these games as just mainstays in
the gaming community, and it's only you know, people are
looking to those companies in general to make new stuff
alongside these other games because they are just such mainstays.

(31:31):
Like there's League Legends is still the most popular game
in the world bar none. Like it's played the most
everywhere in the world, and it's frankly, it's like not stopping.
They're making so much money on micro transactions on skins.
They just did a collab with Louis Vatan that it's
like there's there is no end in sight to the
money that Legal Legends. I will briefly talk about like

(31:54):
the other moments that kind of came and went because
of it. But this is I think where the more
fun discussion is going to be happened, because I really
want to talk about the influence Mobis has had on
the gaming community as a whole, because mobile's for the
most part, is a taste maker game. Like not everyone's
into it. It's and you know, it is like most
games in a mobile is at least a thirty minute

(32:14):
investment for one game, So it's it's definitely not for everyone.
But the things that they've done that have worked and
been so successful or why a lot of our favorite
games are successful. But you know, we got to talk
about Smite. Smite is still sticking in there, and Smite
they're spin on it is that it's more of a
third person version, so you're it's you're you're not getting

(32:35):
the like top down view it. It makes it a
little more action base. But then you know, you had
Paragon rest in Peace. That's you know, that was that
and and that Paragon is a rest in Peace only
because of Fortnite. Paragon made by Epic Games. Yeah, Paragon
was made by Epic Games. It was there, and like,

(32:57):
to be honest, it wasn't like it was a smash
it but there was a debtic a community. When I played,
there was a whole Yeah, I was playing, but Fortnite
was made a billion dollars and they said, this is
where we're gonna put and who's gonna blame them? If
you make a billion dollars, Danny, if you off of
a fluke recorded an R and B single and someone
gave you a billion dollars, would you still be writing

(33:19):
or would you do another? Would you do another album?
You know, I'm too creative. Take all that money. Make
a horror film. That's great? Oh man, I mean I
have to. I I give Epic Games credit and that
they make so much money off of the Unreal engine
and every game that uses it that you know, we
have to do a sidebar on that. Sure, So Epic

(33:41):
Games makes the Unreal engine, which if that sounds familiar,
it's because it's kind of the engine that used to
make Unreal Tournament back in the day and kind of
has been the industry standard. Every game you play for
the engine, but because they make the engine, game companies
have to pay them to use the Unreal It was.
It was essentially was like creating the video game Wheel.

(34:05):
They were like, we so honestly all the money, like
they kind of have this like flow of income, and personally,
I think they should be way more experimental, like when
you have like that much flow, and they've been they
you know, I feel like Fortnite and itself was kind
of an experiment. Definitely just just the game, not even

(34:25):
the Battle Royale. The Fortnite as a tower defense and
it was kind of fun. I got into it, and
man it was it was crazy. It was wild watching
Fortnite happen real time because there are some people who
are coming in now, but if you were someone who
played it, this Battle Royale thing really was just a
side thing. Like it was like imagine if Nokia stopped

(34:48):
making cell phones and only made snake Like that's what
Fortnite was for the Yeah, um, they just you I
mean they you know, they had all the money. They
used it, but they were very quick to cut stuff
that wasn't working. Like we were just talking about Paragon.
I was one of those people who threw twenty dollars
out of Founder's pack and they I'll say this to

(35:09):
their credit, they had enough money from Fortnite that when
they closed the servers for Paragon. They refunded every single
player for every dollar they spent on Paragon. If you
bought a skin, if you bought a Founder's pack, if
you want anything. They were like, you know what are bad?
We close the game, here's your money back, which is wild.
The company had enough money to refund every player, which

(35:32):
is that that's truly unheard of if you don't game
that never happens never like and and really like gaming
has is in a new Okay, I feel like there's
lots of nuggets we we have stopped on. So like
back in the day that games that we are used
to console games, a game comes out, you buy it

(35:52):
when it's done. Now we're in an era on PC
gaming where there's a thing called early access games, and
it's almost like you buy into the game before it's finished,
and you hope that it finishes one day. You pray
that it finishes one day, but you were essentially buying
an incomplete game, sometimes at a lower price than when

(36:15):
it does a full release, uh, in the hopes that
you know, you're supporting them developing it. And this was
originally away for smaller developers to do it. And then
somewhere along the way, larger developers just started doing it.
They were like, we can get away with and it's
just created an interesting culture because sometimes you do have

(36:36):
people who like player on the battlegrounds. Pub G was
a was a early access game when it launched. Some
may argue it was still early acts. Yeah, and now
they've kind of gotten their footing, but the damage has
already been done because in that time, Fortnite came out,
Fortnite Apex Legends, Yeah, I can talk about there's so

(37:00):
many came out and after that day, I love it
so much. But to go get back to uh Mobile's
so you had like your paragrams, you had your Smite.
Smite still standing right now. I think if you had
to say that it goes League Doda Smite and now
there's a few mobile mobiles that that are getting some tracks.

(37:22):
Is definitely picking up a little bit. It's very interesting
because that whole it's a whole another subject we can
get into with mobile games, where mobile games are really
on a path now and people were real mad. I
mean some people flew a valuable member of my streaming
community after of the of the Salt Squad, after we
did the Blizz Kin episode. The way we first interacted

(37:45):
is he damned me and said I was a blizzard
chill because he because I said that I liked the
Dioppolo game. And I was like, He's like, he's like,
you're sounding like a real blizzard chill right now, and
I was like, I'm just being on it. I was like,
you you listen to the pod. You know, I have
no reason to lie if I don't like something, I'm

(38:05):
very honest about it. And I'm just saying I did
enjoy the mobile game for what it is, and I
do think mobile games are the future. And now I
get to sit back and watch as Call of Duty
Mobile blows up as Arena Valor is blowing up as
pub G mobile like mobile game because it's accessible, it's
for the people, like like, how many kids have an

(38:26):
Xbox now, not that manie. How many people have a
PS four? Not not that many. How many kids have
a cell phone literally at a certain age, all of them.
I think that's where like Google Stadium is coming up
and is and is gaining a lot of popularity because
it's not so much about owning the games, are owning
a system that is so good, it's just about having
internet fast enough to be able to literally stream the

(38:47):
game to your phone so you can play any game
you want on your phone. Same thing with xboxes, x
cloud service that's coming out soon. It's like it's really
bridging that gap to bring everybody together, to make it
let about what you have or what you're playing on,
and just making it like, hey, are we all playing
the same game. It's like as cross platforms coming more

(39:07):
of becoming more of the norm, where we are also
trying to, you know, take off the limits on what
people are able to play, because, like you're saying at
the beginning, PC gaming is the best. I completely agree
as some sort of you know, loser who spent way
too much money on their PC. But it, you know,
I don't feel like I should have to say or

(39:28):
I don't want to be the one to say somebody like, oh,
I want to play this game with you, but we
can't because you're on a Mac, or we can't because
you only have a PS four or you only have
an Xbox or something like that. Like that's that's lame.
I don't I don't like that. I would much rather
play with everybody all the time than just be like, well,
I have a PC and we can play PC games,
or I just have a PS four we can play
PS four games. It's like, I don't think that is

(39:48):
the future personally. Yeah. You, um, you'll kind of touched
on the International, but I just want to touch on
it a little bit more. Um. So, the first ever
International was, which is a tournament, was held in twenty
eleven and was the first official Dota two tournament. In fact,
it was the first real time that we got to
see the game in action being played at the highest level. Uh.

(40:10):
And then, like you all said, the tournament happened when
Dota two was still in early development, still very difficult
to play. Um and not necessarily because the game was
poorly made, but also because you know, select people were
allowed to play the early beta. This is very fascinating,
and that the last tournament, which was in August of
twenty nineteen, the prize money was over thirty four million dollars. Yeah,

(40:33):
and they do a really cool thing with the their
international now. Now the fans are kind of contributing to
the prize money because there's a compendium that you buy
that unlocks tons of cosmetics, has a fantasy game where
you can track the International, it really is like a
companion to the tournament itself, which gets I think it's

(40:54):
a perfect way to get your user base excited about
this tournament. But every dollar space it towards the compendium
goes into the prize pool, which is such a cool
concept because you know you're directly kind of helping your
community grow versus hoping for the best amen. I think
bringing the sports is really important too, because like mobi's

(41:16):
have wildly expanded the popularity of the sports across the world.
It definitely started with StarCraft, but but with League of
Legends and with the International, you're seeing like record attendance
of events, record viewership of these of of the events
on things like Twitch and YouTube and like a Zoobo
and other another streaming services, And I think it really
highlights how much people are investing into mobile games as

(41:41):
more than just like the game itself. Yeah, and that's
and that's that's the link I wanted to talk about
when I said earlier, because StarCraft was there was money
in it. But I like, if you if you have
to know StarCraft to watch StarCraft, you just you simply
have to know, like you'll understand when a team is
invading but that's third minutes in, whereas like a mobile

(42:02):
you understand two characters shooting beams at each other, getting
to kill someone sneaking, and also the excitement of seeing
like the Jungler pop out to harass and maybe get
a kill early game. I think even if you don't
even play, and I know a lot of people who
watch you know, League and watch like the it's called
the LCS, which is the League Championship Series. I know

(42:24):
a lot of people watches it, watch it and don't
even play League because it's a little easier to follow.
And I think that was the final piece to kind
of bring it over here to a larger audience. And then,
like we said, the money that was involved once Brand
saw that like, oh, we can just make E Sports
teams and they have to wear our logo when they

(42:44):
play in front of millions of people. Oh, let's invest
in it. And then you have like things like now
E Sports blowing up across the wather. You've got Echo Fox,
which is owned by Rick Fox or formally owned by
Rick foxunate. Yeah, that was all. That's a whole bunch
of mess. But like that the that whole thing, Rick

(43:05):
Fox leaving Echo Fox. I read on ESPN and this
and it was a long flighty road. And like I said,
I've been here from the beginning. I've been watching from
the beginning. And I remember every time I knew ESPN
was going to cover the sports, I go on Twitter
and like, let's see what people are saying, because it
was ridiculous from the jump. And I'm gonna tell you why.
Because everyone's like, oh, we're watching video games on the

(43:26):
sports networks, Like, yeah, bro, you're also watching poker and
theseus you're watching bowling. Get out of your son, like
you get out of here, don't you pushing it? Like bowling?
I could see, yeah, you're actually moving. Yeah, but poker
is literally the same the same amount of movement as
someone playing a video game. Maybe just mental sports. Yeah,

(43:47):
you're thinking that's always I mean golf, you know, like
you know, yeah, you don't don't make. Don't make the
golf people they put in the hips and you have
to be physically fit. They'll tell you they have they
have to work out. I mean, but you ain't. You
ain't in there, like they're all pretty golf. I'm gonna

(44:08):
give you all. I'm gonna put some respect on golf,
you do need a lot of physical stuff. Um. But yeah,
like but I remember because I remember the first kind
of big one I kind of saw because they did
it briefly because Blizzard always kind of snuck in there.
But they did the High School Champions this series, which
was a mobile that we didn't get to talk about

(44:29):
too much. But Blizzard did their foray in the Moobis
which was Heroes of the Storms, which was funny because Blizzard,
where this all started, was kind of the last to
kind of touch on it. And then they started very
very late, in my opinion, bringing in old champions, so
you had like the Samurai, which was obviously the Berserker,
and you had They did that way too late, Like

(44:50):
if they would have started with those champions, I think
Heroes would have lasted a little longer. We have to
take a really quick break and then we're hopping back
into Mobi's right after this, and we are back. I
was just telling if he um. I was pulling up
this Washington Post article about how we'll link it. It's

(45:12):
how the League of Legends World Championship became the super
Bowl of e sports, And this was comments from a
week ago. Even I thought they would have like I
know originally, but this was a week ago. It says
it's offensive to call this a sport. Can't some clever
person come up with a new word and get famous
for doing it. Um my exact same sentiments, This is
not a g damn sport. Um Well, I guess well

(45:37):
somebody did say was if he? Someone said, well, if
golf can be a sport, I guess anything can. Somebody else,
by the name of Tuna fish said the brain gets
a workout, but not sports unless the whole, Unless the
whole of the body is involved. That is not true.
That's not many sports like a tree. Well, let's talk
to the dictionary, the thing that knows what it's talking about,

(45:57):
and not some dork in the comments. So sport number
one is indeed an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess,
and often a competitive nature. As with the first thing,
is that as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowl and blah
blah blah to a particular form of this, especially in
the out of doors. So that two is saying that

(46:20):
anything is like a form of because also ESPN is
showing a NASCAR Shut up, Oh that's true. You're sitting
the whole. Yeah, what are you talking about. I also
think that, like you know, mobiles are really cool kind
of uh mix up of a bunch of different video games.
Like you're saying, there's are there's RPG elements, there's even
like you know, shooter elements. There's a lot of different

(46:42):
elements that make up a mobile. Similar how there's like
a lot of elements that make up sports in general.
And I think if you watch a broadcast of a
League of Legends game, whether it's else yes, the World
Championship or something like that, there's a lot of things
you see that are almost identical to traditional sports, basketball, whatever,
football anything. First of all, the desk, the analyst desk,
that people doing color casting, all of those people look

(47:03):
just as professional on sets that cost just as much
money as anything that you'd see for an NBA or
an NFL broadcast. Everybody's wearing uniforms, there's teams, there's coaches,
everybody is working together, the teamwork, the communication, all of
that stuff I think is so that people would say
is crucial to sports, and like you know, defines team
sports is also crucial to the sports into you know,

(47:27):
what people are doing on stage when they're playing legal
legends are playing a game like this. You know, I
get that the lack of the physical element is you
know what people racing. Yeah, exactly, very similar, I mean
granted those people. It's also also I must say the
sports people have a workout regiment absolutely because one of
our friends, her brother lives in a house like she
he is on a team and they have to live

(47:49):
in a house altogether. They trained together. It's like you
can't you know, you have to be physically fit, mentally fit,
like you have to coolutely in order for your brain
to work. Yeah, hand eye coordinations, the same with drivers, drivers,
all of the all of the like the really slight movements.
Everything that is like high motor skill function is like
super on display. Especially in sports. Everything is like split

(48:12):
second to the moment decisions that are like creating games.
That's why most people age out in their like twenties,
like because it is you need that much of that
twitch effort, you know, as opposed to like I think
the fighting game community has a like older base you
can still kind of busted out, but like something with
like literally if I just look the game's free, go

(48:35):
on league and just try to last click. It takes
so much effort to like because it really is like
a split second and then you're also looking at the
mini map the same time. Like it really is a
lot of trained stuff. But I do you want to
talk about MOBA's effect on different games, because I mentioned
earlier you have the battle Pass. The Battle Pass is

(48:55):
very similar to like Danny was saying, the International that
compendium that came you leveled it up, um lots of
times with money? Can you level it up with the
money you spend? You? Like Steam? I don't know if
it's still around. You just have a feature where you
can see how much money you spent on a game,
and oh boy, you can don't tell people about Steam. Yeah,

(49:17):
so Steam is one of the first kind of uh
because yeah, I remember it's since two thousand and six.
I was using Steam as one of the its bi Valve,
the company that have made Counterstrike, Half Life, eventually Team
Fortress two, and it was It's essentially a store and
a kind of library for your video games on PC.

(49:40):
For a long time, it was the only one of
its kind, and then developers are like, we're gonna make
our own, but it's not gonna be as good it's
gonna be bad. I will give Origin some credence because
I do love Origin Access because that's how I was
able to play Anthem without wasting any money, and that's
how I'm able to play the New Jedi games. So
Origin is the only one who got it right because
they that the benefit. And then now the rumors that

(50:02):
Origin is going to go back to Steam. That's the rumor. Yeah,
is that really? Yeah? That's because Origin posted a video
on Twitter of just a coffee cup and then Steam
coming up, and so everyone's like they're going to They're
going to Steam. And then someone, of course data miners

(50:24):
found a code that had I launch um launch codes
from Steam. So yeah, which I'm mad because I'm like,
this means I'm gonna lose Origin Access because if so,
I'm gonna lose my mind because I love it. For
those who don't know, Origin Access is just Netflix for
video games, but specifically e A games, So you pay

(50:44):
a monthly fee and you get all e A games
for free, Madden, Fifa, Anthem, Jedi, Fall in Order, Unraveled,
Unraveled too. Uh what is it? Feed heat and needs
for speaking, Like, it's a huge library and it's truly
worth it. Um, A lot of are trying to do it,
and not as well as Origin access in my opinion. Yeah,
that's definitely becoming more popular. Yeah, but yes, so Steam.

(51:08):
Where was I with Steam? We were just talking about
what it was. It's iTunes for games, yes, Steam. Yeah,
that's a way quicker way to say it. Sorry, Steam
is iTunes for games, and that's and I remember going
to buy the BFC can of Monster walking to my
PC cafe, crank that plan, Counterstrike one point one point

(51:29):
six yeah, one point six D Dust D Dust two,
uh going Hammerty. I've been playing like a free to
play mobile called Rose Online because we were a Chimpy
anime character and I was still awed back then. So
I made my character have gold air and looked like
Goku beautiful and has evolved into the premier platform for gaming.

(51:51):
Uh and is the same company that developed Doda too,
and eventually uh So and so valve at this dope
system for the companium where you can buy micro transactions,
and you can even they have like the communities, they
go even beyond modding, where the community can create cosmetics
for the community to buy. And this is a very

(52:13):
similar thing that uh was first piloted by Fortnite because
they started breaking up the game in the season's and
then they had the Battle Pass where through um through
experience that you will earned from playing their game, you
would unlock cosmetics, but you can also pay to boost
it along, which already makes it made it better than

(52:35):
the International because honestly, obviously it was the same way
for the International, but because every game took thirty minutes,
leveling up your compendium took significantly longer than this. And
then after Fortnite did it UM that it kind of
blew up for a bit, and I think Apex did

(52:56):
the next Apex was recently launched, which was EA's kind
of Battle Royal game that was launched from there. But
I think that was one of the things that they
kind of took from mobi's I think everyone's kind of
been structuring their e sports around it. I think the
Overwatch League exists because of LCS. They were able to
watch absolutely league UM and this is actually a very

(53:19):
important part of it that UM just if we can
stop take a pause on video games and talk about TV.
LCS is owned by Riot, so it's there, it's their game.
They're running their tournaments uh, the International owned by Valve.
They're running their tournaments and vice versa. This is a
very important thing because in TV, since video games are

(53:41):
intellectual property, you need permission to broadcast it. So when
back when I saw you know, StarCraft you know on NBC,
Blizzard gave them permission to air it. So you have
different companies, um like e League for example, who are
doing street fighter games, but they have to pay out

(54:03):
Capcom to use that footage, and lots of times they'll
just ask for more and more money, and which is
why you see a lot of these companies doing their
own e sports because they get to have all the
money and they have to control it. So that's actually
like a very important X aspect to point out in
the game. And why League is kind of dominated is

(54:23):
because Riot has had the wherewithal to do it and
that and I will say that Overwatch also followed that
point because Overwatch was on the league first and then
they launched their Overwatch which also changed. Like I think,
I'm very interesting to see where the sports goes from
there because typically eight sports are broken up into organizations,

(54:44):
like we said, owned by different people. So you have
like your Cloud Nines, which used to be an Overwatch team,
You've have you have your um dignitas, uh evil is
it evil geniuses? There's there's so many sports organs all
over the world, but with Overwatched now they own the teams.

(55:05):
So you have like the Los Angeles Valiant and the Outlaws,
but these are all teams owned by Blizzard, which means
that this kind of I was gonna say, that's that's
actually not the case, like that the teams are still
owned by organizations, like the London Spitfire is actually owned
by C nine what But what Blizzard did that was
like different. That was kind of trying to they're just
kind of trying to not I shouldn't say bite, but

(55:26):
they're trying to borrow from traditional sports in the way
that the teams all have these like locations. It's the
London Spitfire, it's the Los Angeles Valiant, but they're still
owned by They're still owned by organism, They're still owned
by organs, but those organs are not allowed to advertise
their organs on any of the jury and that's yeah,
that's the thing. So it's like they're they're trying to
move away from the kind of traditional sports market in

(55:47):
the way that all the sports are kind of decentralized.
Like the reason that the NBA is so successful is
because like one, you know, companies by the rights to
show the m b A. There's like four major sports
in this country, whereas with the sports, there's a new
e sport every week, and so you know, even though
Mobile's kind of set the mold for what a good

(56:07):
E sport is supposed to look like, Like a lot
of these new games have to even make that much
money to show themselves in the same light as League
of Legends, and Overwatch was like, Okay, we need to
be completely different from that, so we're having our own
league that's not associated with any of this stuff. So
it's like people who are Overwatch League fans, like I
think they even struggle to identify with things like C

(56:29):
nine or these other sports because they're like, I'm a
I'm a Valiant fan, I'm I'm an Excelsior fan. I'm
not you know, I play Overwatch. Like Overwatch really has
this core community that just loves that game so much.
I mean, and I do want to give Blizzard credit
where credits due, because it's very easy to bash Blizzard
were siding with China and this Hong Kong is a dispute.

(56:50):
I have to mention that because if we talk about
Blizzard and we don't mention that, you're gonna be like,
if you why didn't you mention that? Are you on
Blizzard side? No? You know me. You know you've seen
my tweets. You know who side I'm on. I mean.
And also, in case you were curious legal legends, the
company Ran James is owned by So if you're curious
about whose pocket they're in the answers, I mean, well

(57:12):
because and that's a very important thing to say because
Lee try talking that smack and people were very quick
to be like, hold up, wait, you're kind of not talking.
And that's kind of the that's the kind of like
connective tissue. Is it is? It is not that necessarily
Blizzard is on the side of China. Is that Blizzard

(57:32):
is owned by ten Cent, which is in China, which
and that's that's what happens when your business gets into
play with art, is you don't get to say everything
you might want to say because your boss is owned
by the man. But to what I will give them
credit for is they were the first um E sports

(57:55):
kind of Uh. Yeah, they're the first E sports to
give players a salary and benefits because, as it stands,
the way EAT sports worked before outside of the Overwatch
League is you had a team, your team's winnings split
amongst everyone. But what happens when you and the organ Yeah,

(58:17):
and the organs, So you're getting a percentage after the
org gets it. It's like your manager or something. Yeah,
pretty much. And so and you're you're like, you know,
we talk about you know, football players who are in
their twenties not knowing how to manage money. What's a
sixteen year old, like the kid who just won a
million dollars in Fortnite? Yeah, and he's like what he's like,

(58:38):
sixteen fifteen year old? No, I mean, schools already don't
teach us about money management. Now you're sixteen with that
much money, you know, it makes it hard to like
understand like investing it in the right way, making it
go towards something. I mean, hopefully his parents will help
him out with that. But in E sports, orgs, you know,
you're making all these moneys, especially if you're successful team,

(59:01):
but you don't have benefits, so like if you do
get sick or if something does happen, you know, I
mean Danny will tell you out of everyone's being sick
is very expensive in America, and you know, having a
million dollars if you have something like a chronic illness,
that can go away real quick. So Blizzard, Oh, well,
what I was going to say, if you want to

(59:22):
hear more of that conversation and the controversy of like
being in the sports. We had a really great episode
with Malik Forte. It is our e sports episode at
drump last year, but still very relevant that we talked
about a lot of the controversy, even like doping, you know,
because that's not really regulated. When you are, you know,

(59:42):
have a new sport come up, So check out that episode.
You can literally just google or look up nertificent e Sports.
You're already on the feet, just search. I saw Malik recently.
I think he wasn't like a Honda ad. It was
like an ad for Honda and he was driving to
an Overwatch event. Makes sense, good for him York to
a level and people just ask, um, well, I mean

(01:00:03):
that's pretty much most of MOBA's that. Yeah. We I
think we did great on the history. But it was
really fun talking about the influence because I mean with anything,
like I want to say, with games, but just anything
entertainment wise. It it's fun to see the things that
might be affecting the other things you love, right, Like,
you know, someone who plays Overwatch might be like what

(01:00:23):
about mobis and not knowing like, oh, actually Mobi's kind
of helped you. I mean, I mean, MoMA's kind of
built Overwatch because it uses a mobile definitely skeleton. But
and that's how they killed battle BORNU alright, bringing up
bringing up old wounds. But Dan, where can people find you? Um?
You can find me on Twitter at dj Underscore Daniel.

(01:00:46):
You can find me here at the office every day,
cutting up people's voices and doing the usual. Um, it's
been a pleasure. Thank you both for having me. I
really appreciate it. Fun talking mobis, I will the last
thing I will say about MOBA's I highly recommend everybody
at least give one try if you're into video games
at all. I find that mobis are such a cool
combination of different mechanics of many different video games that

(01:01:07):
if you're interested in video games at all, there's something
about mobis that will interest you and to lightly touch
in the toxicity. Just mute everybody, don't talk to anybody else.
If you have your friends and a discord, talk to them.
If you have a toxic friend, do not play with them.
Just play a mobile for fun. Give it, give it
a shot because they're super fun, adventurous, just well designed
games that you know, they're the most popular in the

(01:01:29):
world for a reason, so definitely give them a shot.
Hey you, Oh, I'm at miss Danny Fernandez, and I
don't think I can announce anything. I have so many
things to announce that I'm not allowed to. I hope
in a week next time you guys listen, I can
announce something. Um. But in the meantime, Oh yeah, check
out our merch store in public dot com slash meifice, Yeah,

(01:01:51):
get some of our merch. You know what's coming up
the holiday. Myr friends and their difference share. Even if
they don't listen, now that maybe they'll start listening because
you got them assured it's public dot com slash Night
said yeah, and of course because people have been asking again,
the discord is discord dot g g Forward slash Salt Squad.
If you want to come in, if he's on Twitch,

(01:02:12):
if you wire away on Twitter and Instagram and uh,
like we always say, stay nerdy, stay

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 85: MOBAs