Mental Health May: Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing

Mental Health May comes to a close with a deep dive into the science behind Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing.

Footnotes: 

1. What is EDMR?
2. EMDR Methods
3. How EDMR is Being Adapted During the Lock Down
4. Haley Williams on EDMR
5. EDMR for Key Workers in UK
6. EDMR in Grey's Anatomy
7. Brain Spotting
8. Loba from Apex Legends

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to another edition of Nerdificent from Home.
I am one half of your host, Danny Fernandez, and
sitting across from me on the virtual space is if
you want anyway, how's it going, Danny, how are you feeling?
I'm feeling good. I feel you know, it's a long
road of ups and downs, but for mental health may

(00:31):
we've gotten a lot of great feedback on our episodes.
I'm glad that they are educating people and opening up
you know, some people's perceptions about therapy and alternative treatments. Yeah. No,
not to cut you off, but I have to. Now
that she's pointed that out, I'm going to read something
from the discord. VI King said that the podcasts that

(00:51):
we've released have have pushed him, and now he's contacted,
he's gonna get therapy, he's gonna talk to you. Yes. Yeah,
So that made me feel good. I was like, yeah,
you know, thanks. And then other people have been doing
nice little mental health things like keeping a law journal,
um for for like for habit breaking stuff. So you know,

(01:14):
lots of it's been um it's been uh been great. Yes,
several people wrote me that it changed how they looked
at trauma, like that conversation where I was saying that
it's not necessarily one traumatic event. It can be a
bunch of small events, like having a family member that
neglected you, like a parent, or you know, a relationship

(01:35):
where it was like several things that might seem like
well they called me dumb or they said this, but
it's like overtime that adds up to trauma in your brain. Um,
so yeah, so good. But today we're talking about something
very interesting, right we are. We're talking about E M
D R. Not too already forgot what is the electronic
music medium. I could see Kevin, our guest, who like

(02:00):
mouthing it for me, getting it confused. Um, I was
going to be like speaking of trauma. Our guests this
week is television writer, producer, show runner, co creator of
Cougar Town, creator been listed. I like to think of
him as the a dad on the internet, Kevin Beagle,

(02:25):
my dad or a daddy because someone daddy Kevin. I
think that's cool. I would stay with those blue eyes
definitely both. All right, Well, I'm very happy to be here.
I love I I weirdly but honestly love talking about
trauma because I think it's so I think it's a great,

(02:45):
great thing you guys are doing here. Thank you. That
sound like a dad by the way, I think the
great thing you guys are doing here, you and Mike
Roys Like, I feel like you're both very much you
take on the role of being the dad's of the Internet,
like you're constantly showing your smoked meats um and talking

(03:05):
about your kids. But I think you look out for
the rest of us that are like coming up, which
is necessary. I feel like the rest of us that
are breaking into the writing and the industry and it
can be really vicious, and so I feel like we
need mentors, and I feel like you're very much a
mentor for many people, but also just collectively the Internet
to say, I really do think that's it's it's what

(03:28):
we have to do. And I mean we as like
a collective kind of we anyone fortunate enough to be
in a position like I'm in, Like I mean, someone
gave me, multiple people gave me a shot and helped
me out. So I mean, I feel like I feel
like I didn't that I'd be I'd become the kind
of person living in Los Angeles that I go, God,
I can't stand those people, you know. So there's basically

(03:48):
a lot. It's a lot of it's fueled by not
wanting to hate myself, but there's a lot of genuine,
you know, love and supporting. Also, they're like the industry
and whatever you want to call it can't survive if
it's a bunch true dudes like me who are writing
all the stories like, you're also not old. I see you,
I see you tweet that sometimes you are also not old.
As your friend, this is my job to tell you

(04:11):
these things. You are both a daddy and you're not old. Um. Well,
we always start our podcast with what we're seeking out about,
like anything that you're super into right now, Kevin, Do
you have anything that you're geeking out about? Yeah, I'm
obsessed with the second season of What We Do in
the Shadows. It's like my favorite show comedy of the

(04:32):
past couple of years, easily. Um. It's so funny that
every actor on it is excellent, the writing is incredible,
it's shot so well. I mean, I I that show
is funny because the movie it's based on is one
of my favorite movies, The Marvel Show that we did
then it never went Actually, the whole that show The Conceit,
and everything was based on that movie, even the style

(04:53):
of it. So then when they said they were announcing
this show, part of me is like, I hope it
fails because we didn't make it, you know, like Dicky.
But then I saw it's excellent, I mean, and everyone
is so it's so funny. Um. Yeah, I love that show.
And then the other thing I'm watching right now it's
not new um and I'm finally catching up as a Catastrophe.
Oh yeah, I've been wanting to catch up on that too.

(05:17):
What about you, Ifi? What are you getting out about?
For me? You know? Apex Legends has just introduced a
new update and a new champion, new champion that I
just can't get enough of, Loba who she was teased
in the in the earlier kind of because there was

(05:38):
another champion in the previous season called um uh it's
it's it's very edgy. What is Revenant? Uh? And in
like in the teaser you kind of get hints that
this takes place before the events of the game and
there's a little girl who looks very angry when her
her family is killed because Revenant is a gun for

(05:58):
hire who has had his mind taken out of his
body so that it can be replicated in robots so
that he has a million lives. And he finds out
in that uh in that backstory, Apex Legends has a
deep lore. Shout out to my friend uh Manny uh
Gopien who writes on Apex Legends and Loba. I texted

(06:20):
him the other day. I was like, hey, I got
a question for Apex Legend. Was like, yeah, what's good.
It's like, why do you make her so hot? Um?
Because her name is Loba Andrade. I'll drop a link
so everyone knows what I'm talking about. But but yeah,
she she carries like a cane. She she has fun
new abilities and they did a lot of fixing and

(06:40):
balancing into the game and it's it's fun to play.
I've been deep in it and uh, I cannot wait
to for the Lobo cosplay, you know, putting yeah, more
thick Latinos in the game. During this uh, during the
uh during this teen um. The thing that I'm seeking
out about is actually Joel and I and our friend

(07:02):
Sabina super producer. Joel and I like we have a
little Zoom running date that happens every weekend where we
watch like several hours of a TV show together essentially.
Also while I'm cooking and cleaning, um there there with
me and we watched a fashion show with Tan France. Now,
Tan France is one of the guys from Queer Eye,

(07:24):
the newest edition of queer Ie, one of my favorites. Um.
In fact, I find myself whenever I see him do something,
I'm like, oh, Tanny because they call him Tanny in there,
and I'm always like, that's my friend Tan. Um. Anyways,
I'm so obsessed with him and have been that I
didn't realize that he had a uh biography out, and

(07:45):
so it's called Naturally Tan and Um. It talks about
his you know, coming up and how he got to
Queer Eye, and it's just really fascinating. One thing that
I didn't know about him is he was making his
own clothes at like fifteen, so it's like he's been
wanting to do that and break into He's been doing
it since like birth. Um. Also, he was saying, because

(08:07):
his family isn't used to Western culture, that his dad
bought him barbies in a Barbie house, not knowing like
our you know, homophobia around stuff like that. That's incredible.
He said his dad did it to show off to
his cousin. He wanted to be like, well, look at
the Christmas not Christmas whatever, it would have the equivalent.
He was like, look at what I got him, and

(08:28):
it was like barbies in a huge Barbie house. And
he was like, it was like a dream. It was
like the best. So yeah, anyways, I love I loved
tan Um also very spicy. I thought that he was
just like, oh, he's like the he's non confrontational and no,
he's confrontational, but that's on audible. He narrates it. I

(08:49):
love it and I love him. Oh that's really cool.
I have two more things I forgot. I got two more.
One is the show on Netflix called and it's it's
a kid show, but we blew through the first season
with a nine year old are called Keepo and the
Wonder Beasts, and it's yeah and awesome. That show is great. Um,
like the kind of big, weird fantasy stuff that like

(09:12):
as a kid that you see you're like, oh my gosh,
am I the only person in the world's gonna like this,
And then you find somebody else who likes it and
it makes it that much more special it's great. Um
so that that and I think the second season is
coming out pretty soon as that. And then the other
thing which isn't very new is I'm obsessed with Witch
Or three and I need to honestly break the disk
in half because I'm not getting anything done three in

(09:32):
the morning. D yet I haven't that, I don't think
I can't. I can't do it. And I'm so used
to like like the Skyrie Me sort of you know,
big open world stuff and fall Out where it's like
there's clearly good and clearly bad, and in that game
there's it's so morally great. It's like you think you
do something good and then a whole children, a bunch
of children die are like the people being in the

(09:55):
forest that was mean, like now while the kids still
have to eat him by the witches, like there's no
you don't get to be like the big hero in
that game, which is fascinating to and and it's also beautiful.
So I'm i'm, I'm. I'm kind of losing way too
much sleep and worktime corunning around with Gerald and maybe
now I can watch the show on Netflix and sort
of understanding because I tried to watch it before it
was just it was just too much. What's your lure is? Yeah?

(10:20):
And now now I bet I could sit down like
all that serials. Yeah, it was like there she is.
Today we are talking about another great transition. E M
d R. It stands for Eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing. UM.
It's fairly new, nontraditional type of psychotherapy. It's growing in popularity,

(10:43):
particularly for treating PTSD. At first glance, it appears to
approach psychological issues in an unusual way. It doesn't rely
on talk therapy, although they're often combined. I think sometimes
it's necessary. Um. But e M d R uses a
patient's own rapid rhythmic i'm movements. These eye movements dampened
the power of emotionally charged memories of past traumatic events.

(11:06):
That's some that's some wild stuff. I mean, we're going
to get into what that means. We just listed off
a bunch of words. Yeah. But but but stick with us.
Let's let's go into the history and try and help
you out. So M d R therapy was first developed
by Francine Shapiro, upon noticing that certain eye movements reduced
the intensity of disturbing thought. She then conducted a scientific

(11:28):
study with trauma victims in the year me and Danny
were born, and the research was published in the Journal
of Traumatic Stress in nineteen eighty nine. Her hypothesis was
that when a traumatic or distressing experience occurs, it may
overwhelm normal coping mechanisms, with with the memory and associated
stimuli being inact, inadequately processed and stored in the isolated

(11:51):
memory network. Schapire also noted that when she was experiencing
a disturbing thought, her eyes would involuntarily move rapidly. She
further noted that her anxiety was reduced when she brought
her eye movements under voluntary control while thinking a traumatic thought.
Shapiro developed E M d R therapy for post traumatic
stress disorder. She speculated that traumatic events upset the excitatory

(12:14):
inhibitory balance in the brain, causing a pathological change in
neural elements more words, lots that There's a lot of information,
but I feel like that was a little easier to
digest kind of hearing the history of it, because you
kind of get they kind of laid out the hypothesis
really well as to why you would do this. Yeah,
so I wanted to say that Kevin and I are

(12:35):
both doing different ones. There's several different ways to do
E M D are based on what's right for you
and also the psychiatrists that you're seeing. So Kevin, I
wanted to ask, like, how did you how did you
find this? Um So I was I had been in
therapy prior to starting MB are near ten years or so,

(12:57):
UM and I think I hid, I know, think I
know I hit that sort of plateau or I just
felt like I was in therapy and kind of talking
and talking and not working through issues so much and
for and that can be wonderful community, but it wasn't
hitting the core traumatic memories and experiences that I had,
and I wasn't really I wasn't moving along with them.

(13:19):
UM So, I can't remember who it was that suggested
E M b R. I actually, yes, I do. I
know who it was exactly as my wife, UM because
my wife went to school to be a therapist and
she had heard about this and she said, why don't
you look into it? And there was uh someone who
is very well regarded here in Los Angeles UM therapist

(13:39):
and I wrote her and she took me in and
it was actually a therapist who by a weird connection
my wife's therapist, uh that she had taught with new
So like there I wasn't a stranger coming off the street, um,
and and just started from there. I've been doing it
for about two years now, and I had to basically
stopped seeing the last the therapist and switched to the

(14:01):
new one, which was weirdly. I don't know if you've
ever had to like basically say goodbye to a therapist.
It's such a strange, like it should be easy, but
it's not. And this was made stranger because she didn't
want me to go, and she was, well, maybe can
even coming twice a week and and and you can't.
You don't have to tell her about me. I'm like,
this seems weird, Like that's going with the new agent.

(14:25):
It's like being an agent and going with a new agent.
I was like, I don't, I don't think I should.
I should be here anymore if we're having this conversation.
So I kind of like, you know, kind of like
got out of there. And and she don't get me wrong,
she was wonderful, but I think our time had the
relationship was over. And yeah, that's how we started with
the emdr that's why I can't get over that because well,

(14:47):
and I've I've seen a lot of therapists too. I
kind of we talked about it like that. It's dating.
You know, you're trying to find your right one that
works for you. But I just can't imagine my therapist
liking me and my problem so much that they want
to hang onto them. It's a really it is such
a strange thing because you're basically you're right. It is

(15:07):
like auditioning people are dating them because you don't if
you if you're trying, like I'm someone and maybe you
are too. That was very open to going in and
talking about the stuff I was trying to deal because
I was like, I need help. And if someone isn't
that open to the experience and they go in and
they sit down with somebody, there's no guarantee that first
person to sit down, or the second person or the

(15:27):
third is going to be the right fit. And to
kind of try to convince them, no, you have to
there's other people, there's different ways. That's that's a hard
buy for people because they kind of feel like, you know, well,
the mechanic didn't fix my car, so I'm selling the car.
It's like, no, no, you are the car like go
to place, terrible metaphor like, so, uh yeah, it's it's
thank god that and I really mean that. The two

(15:49):
therapists I've had where I was good fits with them
and they were good fits with me, because yeah, that's
that's a tough that's that's hard. It's really hard when
it's not a right fit. Yeah. I wanted to get
into what an actual session is. So some can last
up to ninety minutes. Essentially, your therapist will move his
or hor his or her fingers back and forth in

(16:10):
front of your face and ask you to follow these
hand motions with your eyes. At the same time, the
e m D the e m D R therapist will
have you recall a disturbing event. We'll get into that
because that's extremely traumatic. Uh. This will include the emotions
and body sensations that go along with it. Some therapists
use alternatives to finger movements, such as hard or toe

(16:31):
hand or toe tapping, or musical tones. Now I know
yours is a little bit different. Kevin, can you talk
about when you first what your first session was like? Yeah,
it was so, it was very really interesting. I think
it's really important to stress as we're talking about the
m d R UM and this is my personal experience.
You can't speak for anybody else, but if you're going
into look look at doing it. You don't want if

(16:52):
you go into a new therapist and you do it,
you don't want to do it the first session, Like,
that's not the way to do it. You have to
build up the m d R kind of experience. And
there's a whole process that goes there. You know that
it's basically I met with my therapist probably for a
solid month, you know, once a week. UM, she's getting
my history, getting the history of my trauma and stuff

(17:12):
that I was the kind of presenting her with UM
and then even beyond. And that's just kind of normal
therapist talk. But the thing that's very specific to m
d R as I had it was then you're also
to gear up to these e m d R sessions.
You're building this sort of mental safe space if this
makes sense, and you're populating it with people who have

(17:32):
you have zero issues other than pure support and love.
So mine and I'll expose this part. My my mental
safe space to go to was my garage, because the
garage has no other issues outside of it. It's like
this big nerdy garage full of movie posters that I
watched films in. I have friends over to watch them,
like I just sitting there and play skyro them like

(17:52):
an idiot, and you know, everyone tells me to turn
the volume down, like it's just pure joy being in there,
and and it literally does feel safe. It's cozy. So
that's kind of a mental mental starting place for these sessions.
And then I've populated it with people and I've taught
you know, we go in therapy, we go through who
are these people? Doesn't have to be a lot um.
Who are pure people and influences in your life that

(18:16):
you basically want their uh. And as you're thinking about
this um to be behind you, imagine they're kind of
surrounding you that they've got when someone's got their hand
on your shoulder and you're just you're surrounded by people
who love you and you love them, UM, and you
get those and you talk about why those people are important.
So you're I'm in the I mean so mentally you
kind of build this place up where I'm in my

(18:37):
garage and I've got people around me that I care
about UM and trust me when the first time I
did this, I'm like, this sounds insane, Like this does
not This doesn't sound like therapy of this sounds like,
you know, someone's waving a crystal over my head, you know,
and they're chanting around me. Um. But anyhow, so I
sat on the couch and the therapist in front of me,

(18:59):
and she had these two little devices that she could
control that pulsed and vibrated, and I, I, can you
put them where around your body want? You just want
to feel that vibration, very rhythmic vibration. And I had
them and I put them underneath my legs, underneath my thighs,
and basically before we started the e MDR session, we

(19:22):
pinpointed kind of one specific moment that was kind of
a core for a lot of the trauma that I
was dealing with. And in a specific moment for me
was I was dealing with a lot of trauma still
because a little over ten years ago, out of nowhere,
I had a heart attack almost killed me. Doctors all
said it should have killed me and I and I
had no way of coping with that reality. I mean,

(19:44):
it was just I couldn't shut off that switch that
said you should be dead. I just couldn't. I mean,
and it come back to me all the time, and
just if theyn't even thinking about it would scare the
crap out of me. And it was it was very
it's hard to deal with. UM. So the core memory
one of them at least, that was a big signifier

(20:04):
of this stuff and would literally kind of cause me
the tense up and shoulders would go up. Was when
I got a phone call from a heart doctor that said,
you're you need heart surgery immediately. Um, we need to
put a stent in you, or we need to do
angioplastic um. You've got a major blockage blocked in the back.
It's the basically the thing that they called a widow

(20:25):
maker that kills people like that and I'm out of nowhere.
It was a Friday night. I was at home meeting pizza, Like,
I was like, what, so I'm sitting at my desk,
I take this phone call. So that was kind of
that and I could never think about that call without
those things I just talked about, you know, going like this,
my face getting flushed, just you know, classic traumatic reaction,

(20:45):
and that would right into other places of my life.
So basically I've got these little buzzing things underneath my legs.
She goes, okay, you know, however you want to do this.
Do you want to keep your eyes open? Close and whatever.
I wanted to close and close my eyes, and she said,
go through them in and tell me what you see.
So I went through the memory and it went through it.
First time I went through it was pretty basic, and

(21:08):
in my mind's eye, I was picturing what I saw then.
And what I saw then was me sitting at my desk,
you know, my my eyes looking down and writing a
pad with red notes. You know what the doctor was saying.
I was seeing my point of you. So she went
through the whole thing and she goes, okay, now it's

(21:28):
how did you know? Questions? How did that make you feel?
How does this make you feel telling it? I told her, Okay,
now let's go through it again. Things are still vibrating
underneath my legs, my eyes are still shut. I go
through it again. This time. When I go through it,
I'm a little angrier when I tell the story. It's
frustrating me more. All the stuff is bubbling up, same things.
Why are you angry in it? Right now? Let's talk

(21:49):
about that go with that. Next time, she goes, okay,
let's hear it again. Okay, go through the third time.
The third time, as I'm telling it, that's when let
the tears start, you know, and oh, my God, gonna die.
I want to die. I don't want to be not
around for my wife or my kids. This is awful.
Um go through it again and then the same questions again.
And this is where it gets the magic part for me,

(22:10):
at least happened and why I'm the biggest proponent of
it ever and I know it works, at least in
my case. She goes, go through it again. Fourth time.
I go through it, not crying as much this time,
but the well, I swear to God. The strangest thing happened.
My point of view in my mind's eye, eyes were
shut as I'm telling a story. And I didn't even
think about this until it was happening. And after it happened,
my point of view was no longer me looking straight down.

(22:33):
Now I was me. I was looking at the back
of my head, sitting at a desk. I was looking
at me, seeing at that desk. And as I went
through it slowly, it's like a camera shot slowly the
camera started to pull back and I saw not just
the back of my head, I saw my shoulders. I
saw the back of the chair, I saw the desk
in front of me. And as I told the story,

(22:54):
I was a little lighter as I told it, I
wasn't as heavy one as it wasn't as crying as much.
It was still sort of hazier on the edge is
of the images that I saw. We talked about why
I felt that way, and she goes, okay, now do
it again. And then as I told it this fifth
or sixth or seventh time, I don't even know how long,
because it was one of those nine minute a hundred
minute sessions. I swear to God, this happened as I

(23:14):
as I tell a story this last time, the camera
in my mind's eyes comes around, and now I was
looking at myself in my mental image of this memory,
I was no longer my p O V looking at
that piece of paper. I was looking at me, hearing
this news, seeing me back then, and my immediate reaction

(23:35):
to that as I started probably one of the hardest
times I've ever laughed in my entire life. I started
laughing so hard in the middle of the of the session,
and as I'm and she's like, don't stop. Go through
and I can't stop laughing. And I'm seeing this guy
here whose life is just has just broken in a
way he could never have anticipated every feory ever had

(23:55):
because I grew up with a huge fear of death
and stuff in my family. Every fear has just been confirmed.
He thinks he's gonna die. And I'm laughing my ass
off and I get through it, and I'm and my
point of view is now looking at me, and she says,
why you're laughing, And I said, because I'm that idiot
has no idea the amount of ship he's gonna have
to put up with for the next ten years of

(24:17):
his life dealing with this right now. He has no
idea what's in store for him. Like he is just
like still got pizza on his face, like what's going on?
And and and it was the most incredible thing. Went
through it again, and this perspective stayed that way. I
was now looking at myself. Session was over, you know, Okay,

(24:37):
come out of it. The vibration sort of stops. I'm
absolutely exhausted, exhausted, and I don't mean like I mean
like mentally exhausted. I felt like I just run a marathon.
And she's like, go home, don't drink, you have a
snack and get a good night's sleep. Okay, this is weird,
magic trick thing that just happened. And I go home.
And then that was about a year and a half

(24:59):
a go. It has been I have I have never
once thought about that specific memory again and had it
be terrifying or scary or have that power over me
that it used to have. Now because of what the
MDR has done, and as I've sort of tried to
understand the science that was such a huge traumatic memory,
and you guys spoke of it when you were describing this.

(25:21):
Your body can't process something that's severe right away, and
it doesn't even know how to store it. So it's
almost like it's just like let's shove it in your
and it's just sitting in parts of your brain affecting
other things, affecting other memories, other decisions, other emotions. And
what E m d R does is basically kind of
compartment compartmentalize it, compartmentalize that they can't talk, and puts

(25:42):
it in a place where you can understand what that
moment was but also for me, understand, I'm not that
person anymore. I'm the person now, I'm the person who's
put the work into myself and it's still gonna have
to keep putting their working to myself. But I'm not
I'm not that the And I use this term specifically
just for me, and I don't mean to usual anybody else,
but um, I'm not that victim anymore of that circumstance.

(26:05):
I'm someone who survived that and I'm on the I'm
still surviving it. And that's that was that. That was
one experience with E. M. D R. With an actual session,
and that's It's insane how it has basically taken a
real traumatic memory and moment and not made me scared
of it anymore, and not made me live in fear

(26:26):
of it and live and fear of bringing it up.
And I can at times laugh at it because that's mine,
Like that's that was my story. Like I don't I'm
not a slave to that story anymore. That's me, that
existed in my head and now it's part of me,
but it doesn't rule me, and it's just it is.
I don't I don't tense up or anything when I
think about it anymore. And that was that was the

(26:46):
first big one we did, and there's been a number
of them since then. Some of them were hard stuff,
some of them were other things in my life that
I've kind of went through and and and I am
dealing with and dealt with. But and there's been a
couple other that were that that visually stunning as far
as how it changed my perception of things. So I
actually have questions about your first one. I have a

(27:08):
bunch of questions, but We're going to take a really
quick break and then I'm going to ask you all
these right after this and we're back. I wanted to
say you and I actually talked about, uh, the show

(27:29):
that I had sold to HBO Max that was about
life after my suicide attempt, which is the same thing.
I thought it was the funniest thing when I woke
up that. I mean, it's very dark, and this is
why we're all comedy writers, but I thought it was
so hilarious that I, uh, I felt like I was
a failure at everything, and I also failed doing this,

(27:50):
and that to me was so dark but funny, and
it's just it's just little. Actually, everybody in my crisis
group also had that like sense of humor. We would
just laugh about things that you're not supposed to laugh about,
like your heart attack and other stuff. Um, but it's
very unique to us, and I feel it's very healing.
So I know that can be hard for some people
to understand, but I do feel there's a huge portion

(28:12):
of people, especially comedy people. Comedy comes from pain and trauma.
So why a lot of comedians that had rough childhoods?
I will on the sleep you didn't have one. I
don't know how, I don't. I think you should choose
a different job. It also not that I would ever
want wish this would happen to me or you upon anyone,

(28:35):
but it definitely. I mean I can even we've we've
never talked before, you know, face to face, right, We've
been friends online but never talked before, immediately you can
sense when somebody else has had that kind of experience.
It's traumatic because it's like, oh, there's a short emotional
shorthand already was, but you feel like you're more open
with people, Like it's really interesting how that can form

(28:56):
a bond very quickly, which I think is very It's
it's fascinating and I think you're right and this and
I can see why E M d R has becomes
such a big thing with the soldiers coming back, because
you know, how do you talk about these things that
you don't even want to talk about or even or
even think about. This is it's a it's an amazing
technique that can kind of help to heal you, Kevin. So,

(29:17):
can you talk to me about the thigh whatever? The vibrators?
So is she moving that? Are you telling her to
move them? So basically you kind of set it up
at the beginning of the E M d R session.
They're two kind of little vibrating rhythmic things. Um, Kevin's
dirty comedy brain is going to certain places. But she's
increasing the dosage right or like she can? She can,

(29:40):
she can definitely, she can definitely adjust the intensity of them,
how how hard that, how how hard they kind of vibrate,
and how quickly that they have very but if it's
like one hard one hard one hard one or heart
slow slow slow, Um, And there is so the E
M d R I do. I can't remember the specific name.
It's called. It's like touch sensitive E M d R.
To gets upset of of d E M D r

(30:01):
And this one was discovered by someone who they were
literally out for a walk one day and they noticed
that the bipedal motion of their feet on the ground
had an effect on a memory they were thinking of,
and they took that little moment of inspiration and developed
this entire system. So basically it I think it helps
in kind of rewiring your brain because the sensation, the input,

(30:24):
it's not just visual, it's not just memory. There's actually
a touch feeling to it too. You're using more senses
I think. Don't quote me on that. I'm not a scientist.
I write fart jokes for living um so. But she
controls the vibrations and sometimes they get more intent, sometimes less,
but usually it keeps kind of like a steady pace
um And it's actually I find it very soothing actually

(30:46):
to have these kind of things vibrating under underneath your
like you don't even think about them after the first minute.
They're just there. But it's just kind of like a
gentle hum as you're as you're going through these um
very very emotional like in and trigger and hard memories
and things you you know, don't want to say or
admit it. Somehow, it's almost like a comfort blanket. Like
it's not the same thing, but I can almost see

(31:07):
how this that feeling of like having a weighted blanket
on you. There's a there's a similar to touch something
to it. And another thing that's interesting about this is
that Part and Parcel with the which is the new
pilot I just sold ABC Part and Parcel. It's not
a parcel company that also sells auto parts. Um it's say,

(31:28):
I never know, I never know when you're kidding or not. Um, No,
it's it's there's a thing called tapping. So and you've
seen maybe Olympic athletes and stuff do this before race,
where they'll tap their shoulders, tap their forehead. It's kind
of a way of mentally prepared setting yourself. And the
thing I've done and this thing that has really helped
here is the same place that those vibration things that

(31:51):
I take three MDR which is underneath my legs for
memories that are profound memories or revelations or whatnot. Part
of the therapy is you kind of and she got
the therapist calls it tapping it in so like ten
or twelve times, you just tap it on top of
your thigh and it sounds silly, but in a weird way,
it's almost like hitting the save button on a computer
and it physically and the physical sensation. It's one thing

(32:13):
to go, boy, I want to remember this forever. But
there's something about doing that that it kind of for
me at least locks it in. And I know that's
part of the touch sensit of MDR therapy as well.
Another thing I think, are you still doing Are you
still doing E M d R or when did you? Oh? Wow, Okay,
I was just gonna say it seems like it's something

(32:34):
that like you would do for a short I just
can't imagine because I'm currently doing it and we're gonna
get into the one that I'm doing, but I can't
imagine doing it for a year or so, Like are
you still finding new breakthroughs? And I definitely. It's interesting
you say that because I definitely am finding new breakthroughs
about stuff, but it's about different things, and that a
lot of the therapy has shifted to more traditional UM

(32:56):
therapy sessions, which is great, not as E M d
R specifically focused, but in those therapy sessions, every once
in a while, stumble upon something that is like, oh,
this is something to dig deeper about, Like there was
a thing with with my family that I had never
It's one of I'm sure you've had this before. It's
the strangest thing where you're in there and you blurred
out something in the middle of a session. You're like,

(33:17):
especially the ones where like what am I going to
talk about today? And it's like, ship, I got an
ala to kill. I have to fill I have to
fill the room with And then you say something, Oh
my gosh, that's why this person treated me horribly growing
up or whatever. It is like, how the hell did
I never realized that? And there's it's very helpful to
know that. Then there's a resource for me, that's the
MDR that can then deal with those things. And I

(33:38):
think you're right though. I think if you're going and
it's totally fine if you're going in for a specific thing,
you know, if you're a soldier going in for uh,
seeing your buddy almost killed or whatever, it is like, yes,
that's great, you don't have to stick with it forever, um,
But I just I like having that there. That was
so funny because people asked me when I first started therapy,
and I normally tell them Oh. It was when I
was seventeen had an eating disorder just from bullying in school,

(34:02):
and my parents put me in therapy. And then I'm like,
unless you count, like I remember going to therapy when
I was little, And then I was like, oh, I
think I was in therapy when I was little, but
I like don't fully remember. I just remember being in
the office, and like, you know, therapy is so different
for kids, and I think it was mainly for my
little brother, but it's also something that I haven't I

(34:23):
have so much going on. I haven't even tackled that
yet with my family. Uh so, Mom, if you're listening, yeah,
I'm like, wait, I remember a highlights magazine in the
office and me having to be there and talk to
a lady. And then I was like, oh, but it's
it's like we were saying, your brain literally to protect itself,

(34:45):
will put those away. It was like you were saying,
it will like compartment, it will like put that in
a safe uh compartment. And why some of us need
more than talk therapy. It's like we're hitting a wall.
We're hitting like a boundary or something that like you
just can't level up. In my opinion, I was like, so,
I've done so much talk therapy. Why am I not

(35:05):
floating at this point? Yeah, it's the hardest. I think
you hit it exactly on the head. Is that the
way was explained to me, and I've tried to educate
myself about this more. There is there's there's big trauma
and little trauma. Big traumas like the big stuff you
think of, like the huge things that we've been talking about,
but there's also a little trauma and little trauma can
be the you know, why do you think you remember

(35:27):
that kid who called who? Who called me fat? In
third grade? Why would why would that memory stick with me? Random? Like, well, actually,
if you dig into it, there's a reason for that.
Like why does this little thing stay with me that
my mom said to me when I was leaving for college.
I don't know, oh ship? Yeah, I took that in
a certain way and that that was indicative of something else.
And those things are insidious because they are like little boxes.

(35:49):
But unfortunately they're like little leaky boxes that then get
their ship on everything else in your brain. And this
is like a way of mopping mopping them up basically, Yeah,
that's that's what's so interesting and that's why. Like one
of my favorite you know, comedy bits to do, whether
it be an improverb in a dialogue, is when someone
says when someone like mentions someone's first and last name

(36:12):
as a retort, where it's like, yeah, yeah, I am
strong Jim Jim Bakerson because everyone can relate to that
one person who's first and last name. You remember who
said that thing to you, And for some reason you're
still hanging onto it. And and if you talk to
a therapist they might let you know. But one thing
I did want to talk about, how you were talking
about how your brain compart to mentalize this is um,

(36:37):
Danny knows this. I went down a hole during uh.
You know, people have disassociative UH disorder, which you know
was used to be known as multiple personality disorder. And
watching them talk about that trauma, what goes through it
a lot of times is they dissociate when they deal
with the trauma because they attached. They create a new

(37:00):
identity uh to who who they believe can handle that trauma.
And a lot of times like it's interesting, there's lots
of words it's worth checking out, like worth checking out,
like out of sheer interests don't like go here to
be like you know, like it. It's very interesting because
they they really like break down there. Every you know,

(37:20):
personality has a role. You have one like there are
some people who like whenever it's sex and sex stuff,
that's that personality. Whenever that it's it's dealing with the trauma,
it's and it's usually the personality around it. It's built
for it. So like a strong you know man personality
can handle you know, because of our like patriarchal ideas

(37:41):
of what can handle pain, you'll have like a man,
a strong man, even in women or women identifying uh
you know people with D I D will make that
person the one who deals with the trauma. It's very
interesting and it it also makes you marvel at our
brains of like we are built to try and protect
and defend ourselves from those things and so so much

(38:05):
so that we will create a whole new person, you
know to deal with that. Yeah, well I was going
to say, um, I know you went down that rabbit
hole if you and I don't know if you personally
know anyone or Kevin, do you know anybody that is
also doing M D RRE you like the only one
out of your friends. UM, that's a good question because

(38:25):
I I think I do as the answer I can say,
because I'm like, I'm Johnny open about every emotional thing
because I don't. I feel like I like it, and
I also feel like it gives me power over the thing.
I'm like, I'm gonna talk about you. I don't care. UM.
But I could never expect that from my friends. And
so I know that some of them are. I know
that's something new therapy, and I know that some of

(38:47):
them do E, M, D R. But I don't know
how deep they've gotten into this the session. And I've
had friends come to me because I've talked about it
online and said, hey, can you tell me about it?
Can you recommend me to anybody? UM? And I have
UM because I mean, if I wish that everybody could
would could have this resource. I mean it's a very,
very very I realize how fortunate I am to have this.

(39:09):
So it's UM. And but the wonderful thing is that
there's a lot of places that are starting to offer
the services as because it's fairly new. UM. I know,
like some of the vas are starting to do it
more some of the uh, you know, if you look
at look online. You can find therapists that don't charge
a lot or just still trying to get their hours um,

(39:30):
and you can get in there. But I'm not sure
that one's trying to get their hours can do E M,
d R. Because I think you have to be have,
you have to be special. Um. But it's there's definitely
more opportunities out there for people to do it. For me.
It kind of at least your initial sessions. The way
that I think of it is like it's the movie
of your life and then they have you freeze on
like the worst possible moment of your life. So it does,

(39:52):
like you said, it takes you have to build up
that resiliency. Um. It's like essentially if you're watching The
Lion King and then just watch the part where move
Fasa dies for thirty minutes. Those terms even get us
where the therapist will be like okay, now rewind now pause,
like and I'm like, okay, get it, but no, you're

(40:12):
it's exactly it. It's like take I'm like, why can't
we do em? What's the opposite of indre? Can do? MR?
Like the really great stuff like the time I went
to talk about and they gave me like six free
tacos like that. I think that they're I think that
actually is. I think that's the other side of E
M d R. I think once you process your traumatic stuff,
it's allowing you, I don't know, talk to your therapist

(40:33):
about it. But when I was researching for this episode, Um,
when I was researching for this episode, I did see
that they had eventually move over to the good You
focus on the good memories and kind of like strengthen them. Oh,
that's really interesting. Ours are just having us go through
all the crap. We're gonna take another quick break, um

(40:55):
that we're gonna hop back into E M d R
and talk about brain spotting, which is the one that
I'm doing right after this, and we're back, we're still
talking about E M d R. Thank you again, Kevin
for being so open about your process. Truly, you gave

(41:17):
a lot of insight and we've got real personal with
us and I truly appreciate that. We're going to talk
about my subsective brain spot my subsective E M d R,
which is brain spotting. If you do want to tell
the people what brain spotting is, Yeah, brain spotting is
a powerful, focused treatment method that works by identifying, processing
and releasing core neurophysiological sources of emotional body pain, trauma, dissociation,

(41:44):
and a variety of other challenging symptoms. Brain Spotting is
a simultaneous form of diagnosis, of diagnosis and treatment enhanced
with biolateral sound, which is deep, direct and powerful, yet
focus and containing and Brain spotting was discovered in two
thousand and three by David Grant, PhD, and over thousand

(42:06):
therapists have been trained in BSP, which is brain spotting
fifty two internationally in the United States, South America, Europe,
the Middle East, Asia, Australia, and Africa. Yeah. So it
actually access accesses unprocessed trauma in the sub cortical brain.
The first time I did it, Okay, So my session
was essentially UM, where I'm looking at. You know those

(42:30):
pointers that professors have, not the not the light ones,
like a physical, actual pointer that you pull out and
you can point to, uh, you can point to something
on the chalkboard. That is essentially what they have for me.
They have this little pointer that they pull up UM
and they can adjust the height and adjust it across
horizontally and vertically. I'm staring at the top of the pointer,

(42:53):
and she has me access like, what are what is
angering you right now? Or what are the feelings that
you're feeling, what is the memory that you're thinking of,
And let's say mine's being cheated on, So she has
me look at the top of the pointer and focus
on the emotions and feeling even in my body. I
feel it in my gut, I feel it behind my
belly button of this feeling, this fear of being cheated

(43:15):
on um. And then the anger starts to come up,
which is why it was so funny Kevin that you
said that I got progressively more angry. I actually think
that I experienced all the stages of grief in that session,
where you're angry and then I'm sad and I'm weeping. Meanwhile,
she's a dead silent, like they're silent most of the

(43:35):
time while you're doing this. It's you processing for twenty minutes,
and I'll occasionally check in. She'll be like, Okay, tell
me what's going on, and I'm like, I just don't
know why I'm so angry, and she's like, okay, just
question that. And that's helped me a ton with my healing.
Is not being judgmental, because I'd be judgmental, like why
are you jealous of this woman? And you're so bitter
and you're so bubble and you can't let it go

(43:56):
and you'll never be this. And instead it's like I'm
cures as to why Danny is, why she can't let
this go, why she doesn't want to move on? Why
is she holding onto this? You know? And for a
lot of people it's like, well, it makes sense, that
makes sense, you'd be upset about that. But what we're
saying is okay, but we've now reached a level in
our therapy where we want to let go. We're done

(44:17):
hanging onto this. It's effect it's like the poison where
what is that Hatred is like poison or jealousy is
like poison um, but like if you drink it yourself
and expect the other person to die. It's like it's
just is this gripping, tense feeling that you don't want
to have anymore about this person and so or this memory. However, afterwards,

(44:40):
I was incredibly I was I felt very brave. I
felt extremely brave for for bringing up these traumatic events.
And of course it's not just one thing. It's like, well,
my dad was a cheat or e cheat on my
mom a ton. Okay, well he left our family. Okay,
I've been left before. Like it's all of these things.
It's not just like one instance, right, it's all these things.
Like you were saying that it's a leaky compartment that

(45:02):
dives into all these other things. Afterwards, I felt okay,
Like I felt like, okay, I let that go. It
was cathartic. I wept about it, and she told me,
you're going to be processing this for the next forty
eight hours, but like whatever comes up immediately after your
session is in your inner core. And I had a breakthrough.

(45:23):
Every time I do it, I have a breakthrough. But
it's like, this is you've now focused on this for
an hour, so you got past the surface of what
you think. So now after this hour, every journal what
is coming up, and it would be breakthroughs. I was like, Oh,
this isn't about them, this isn't about her, This is
about this thing that happened to me a long time ago,
and like this is why I can't let it go,
And like that doesn't even have to do with me.

(45:43):
That has to do with them and the way that
they treat like it's all these all these things are
coming up. So I felt good. Twenty four hours later,
I completely spiraled, and I remember I messaged Kevin. I
messaged you, and I was like, I have totally spiraled
and I can't. I was just in a dark place.
I was writing stuff that was like how why, Like
what is the purpose of life? It's just going to

(46:04):
be trauma all the time. It was just it was
in a not great place and you were great. You
were just like hanging there. It was great to talk
to you and knowing that you had like also had.
Essentially what you're doing, in my opinion, with with accessing
this trauma is you're opening up a wound and making

(46:26):
it now a raw nerve. Now you're desensitizing yourself. The
more that you do it, like Kevin was saying, you
do end up like it gets easier and now that
I've done multiple sessions, it's much easier. But that's what
you're doing, and that's why I think it takes a
tremendous amount of bravery to know that you're actively going
into the dark side. It's like you're taking a flashlight

(46:47):
and you're going into something that you can't even see,
like just the darkest area, the scariest, creepiest area of
your brain and knowing that you'll come out on the
other end, but it's terrifying going in there. It's so
scary and mean. It's the thing that was I was
told me, told to me that I always come back
to about this stuff, is you don't ever get over

(47:09):
any of this stuff. You just learned to integrate it.
And that's a huge there's a huge difference there, you know.
And I think I think with a lot of therapy,
whether it's MDR or the one I kind I do,
or brain spotting like you do, or even just you know,
laying on a couch therapy the misnomer for a lot
of people. As I think, well, I'm gonna go in
here and I'm gonna get over this and be fine,
It's like, no, you don't get over anything. You just

(47:29):
learn how to incorporate it into into your life. Yeah,
but I was that I am that night. I remember
I was like I was talking. My wife was next
to me, and I was like, honey, um, we gotta
pause for a second. I was like, I was gonna
text you and ask your phone number, like I didn't
think if you a call to make sure you're okay.
But it's scary that that stuff pops up. It is.
It's that it's one of the worst feelings when you

(47:50):
put so much work into something and like you said,
you do something so brave and then your body goes nope,
We're still freaked out. I don't know if you do this.
I do this all the time where I yell at
my body body. We really doing this today, I'm likeself like, no,
this is my brain and this is my belly, and
I'm gonna yell at my belly like I just I get.
So it's like a stupid conversation. But what was wild

(48:10):
for me is I'm literally paying someone to just hold
up a pointer and and meanwhile I am listen. It's
bilateral sounds. So she has a soundtrack that I'm listening to,
which does um I can send it to you, but
they have. It's so funny because I did ketemy. I
did clinical kenemine at a doctor's office and I really listen.

(48:33):
I got really low and wild. I called up my
dealer time I did clitical ketamine and they also had
a headphones on me where they played bilateral sound and
it it gets into a I don't know, a part
of your brain. It literally makes me cry every time
I listen to it, but like it not in a

(48:54):
bad way. But okay, I'm ready. I'm strapped in. I'm
safe and I'm ready to You know, have you ever
into music that makes you like you actively want to
listen to something? Yeah, I mean like I have every
I mean I can put on a soundtrack right now.
I'll be crying in ten seconds. It's the Flying Circus
cue from the Rockets. Here here we go. Wait, I'm saying,
is the is the? Is the? Is it like a

(49:16):
tonal thing? Or are you listening for? Like no, no, no,
no no, It's like, um, it's like meditation, like music
is what I can but there's definitely a beat to it. Um,
and uh, we'll put a link. I'll put a link.
I don't know. I'm guessing people use it for different reasons.
They use it for sleep hypnosis as well, which is

(49:37):
a big thing that I'm into. Um. But what was
fascinating is when I did the ketamine, they used the
same soundtrack, so I recognized it and then that also
made me cry. But um, we're doing your session. I'm sorry,
I'm so curious when you were. So, when you do
your sessions, does does the therapist guide you through them
at all? Or does she basically say watch this in

(50:00):
go and then does she ask you to replay this session?
Or is it kind of you're you're the captain to
your own ship. I'm the captain, I think. Also because
I've just done so, she's like, I'm going to trust
your brain. Let me know. Here's another thing. She tells
me where to put the pointer and I'm telling y'all
listening at home. It is the wildest thing because she'll
move it to a certain location on the screen and

(50:24):
it makes me uncomfortable, and I'll tell her can you
lower it? And can you move it a little to
the left. That's the thing that drove me that I
thought was crazy because you would think, oh, it's just
a dot, and it's like no, I actually, oh this
feels so weird. Now can you an inch? Okay, that's
too low? Can you move it up? It's the wildest thing.
And I guess it's accessing that makes sense. Like I
guess it's accessing something great. And I am a firm

(50:46):
believer now that I've had these sessions with it. So
she's playing the music, she does check in with me.
She'll watch me get really emotional, and I'll see her
just nodding her head like yep, you got it, like
you got into the the thing and yes, because I'm
staring at the point. Yeah, So I'm staring, so my

(51:08):
eyes are open and it's the why. Okay. So for
me this last session, I dealt with fear. It was
like the fear of being abandoned, the fear being cheated on,
the fear of being all of that, like just an
overwhelming sense of fear that anytime I'm going into a
new relationship, I'm like, this isn't gonna last. He's gonna
cheat on me. He's gonna I don't care, like he's
gonna cheat up. Like it's just it's it's so ingrained,
you know. And so the little dot it was so

(51:31):
crazy that I was staring at the whole time. It
was just like, give me your fear, just give it
to me, Just just hand it to me. It's fine,
I'll take it. I'll just take it from you. And
it was just the wildest It was almost like I
could just place all my fear on the top of
that dot and then walk away. It was just crazy.
So that was my that was my experience. Every time

(51:53):
I do it, we're kind of focusing. It all has
to do with validation and fear and like abandonment. But
I would say it's different, it's different. It's different. Like
she'll she'll check in with me and be like, what
is a thing that's affecting you the most right now? Um?
And so we'll and then she has me check in
with my body. So it'll be like, where do you

(52:13):
feel it? And yeah, get that too. Yeah, it'll be
like my chest. I can just feel it heaving, like
it's just like a not in my throat or something. Um,
and it eases up. So there's different. Yeah. So so
in other words, there's very different ways. Your E M
d R that you're doing is very different than mine. Um,

(52:35):
however both effective for us. Yeah, how long as we
wrap up here, do you think it's something that you'll
do maintenance on or do you think you could ever
stop doing it? I there's there's one thing that wants
to say that I can stop. But that's the part
that that's the anxious part of me that goes that

(52:55):
just gives me another hour to work every day, and
that's not healthy. So I think it's good that I
keep going and doing it and and keep discovering stuff.
And I don't think I don't think it'll be e
M D R sysians forever like we were talking about earlier.
I think they'll be fewer and farther between, because I'm
not sure about yours, but mine have been very Mine
are very pinpointed about specific memories UM and and and

(53:19):
as we talk more like more of those things kind
of pop, Like I never thought this was so important,
like I was saying, but it is. And I think
a lot of the big ones I've actually kind of addressed,
Like the hard stuff I'm way better with than I
was before. Some the relationship stuff with UM, way better
with than I was before. What it's actually and this
is kind of a side note, but it's interesting. It
has made me much more open to even other different

(53:41):
types of therapies, Like uh, I went to did marriage
therapy with my wife because I'm like, we've been married
for ten years and at first I was like, I
don't want to do that. We're perfect, and she's like, no, stupid.
It's like yourself check up on it. I was like, oh,
that makes sense. And part of that that we do
is this. It's a very intense thing where that your
faces are like twelve inches apart and you were looking

(54:02):
directly into the other person's eyes. It's it sounds nuts
and you can't look away really and you have to
keep that contact as you talk to them, and it's
really fair and I love. It's just made me more
curious about therapy and also how that affects even mind,
because it's just that's why not like this is up here.
I want to learn as much as I can about it.
I wanted to say, because you talked about some of

(54:24):
your breakthrough so one of my breakthroughs was realizing it
was like, oh, they did that because they're hurt like that,
or because they're insecure. When I look at since we're
being really open, my dad cheated on my mom a ton,
even though she was gorgeous, she was a great mom
to us, and it just didn't I think in her
mind it was like, Oh, if I were just prettier,

(54:45):
and I was just That's how I think often it's
like if I was just more successful, if I was
just prettier, and then you realize and it's like, oh no,
they have a whole they have an insecurity in themselves
that means they need outside validation from more than what
like they need outside. My dad needed outside validation from
so many women to cure how he felt about himself

(55:05):
and it didn't cure. It was just like a hole
that he could never fill, um that he should have
been getting help on, right. But those are like breakthroughs
that you have that's like, it literally wasn't me. There
was literally nothing else I could have done. It was
them and they're insecurity and their fear and their hurt
and it's kind of like that hurt people, hurt people,
you know, And it was such a great breakthrough for

(55:28):
me to you know and take off a lot of
fault and take off a lot of that heaviness is
that I feel, um that like all of it is
because of me. And it was just like, yeah, that's
a that's an amazing shift to have. I've had that
once a similar sort of thing with uh. It was
it was via E. M. D R. And it was
a relationship where I was basically looking at it going

(55:50):
oh gosh, I was like like I hated how I
felt I was treated and I just felt like I
was just a nothing and it was just you know this,
another person had all the power. And then via these sessions,
something very similar happened where I was like I was
just I was just a person who was in their

(56:11):
eyeline and dealing with it like it ain't about me. Yeah.
I've had so many times where I've been like, wait,
he's miserable. I'm literally especially dating people this industry, I'm like, well, no,
he got to walk away and he's successful, and I'm like,
but he's miserable. Okay, I get it. I'm glad I was.

(56:31):
I'm glad I had boundaries and walked away and like, yeah,
one of powerful things you can realize. And it sounds
horrible because it's like it's not wishing ill on somebody else.
It's not because it's you got to take care of yourself.
Is that exact thing you just said. It's going Oh wait, yeah,
you're a sad sack and you're miserable. Okay. I want
to say, it's not just relationships, it's a it's colleagues

(56:51):
and people you've had to work for, and you're like
you take it as a writer or whatever. It's like,
this person is treating me awful. I must be not
great at my job. I'm not as talented as I thought,
lah blah. And then you're like, oh crap, this person
is just not And then and then you find out
like everybody else has the same story with this person.
So it's this is the best therapy issue advice I

(57:13):
ever got. And I'm only gonna say it is because
it's from the coolest person ever, from Keith David. Because
Keith was on Enlisted and he was on the New
Warrior Show and I'm friends with me. He's like a
wonderful human being. And I was talking to him at
one point about life and issues and stuff and somebody
who was just kind of toxic. And he goes, Kevin,
you know what I've learned? And I go, what what
please tell me? And he goes, it's not your ship,

(57:34):
Like what do you mean? He goes everything else, it's
not you. That's the always remember that. But in my
head I hear Keith David saying that it is like
the garden King Gargoyle. I'm like, all right, yeah, time
to take this then for landing, and it was thank
you so much for talking with this, uh talking about
us talking about this with us, Kevin, this is such

(57:55):
a fun, illuminating discussion. Thank you, and I hope it
helps someone because I think what's good about episodes like
this one and the one we did last week is
I know, like therapy itself is such a hard sell
for some people, but then even going beyond that is
another hard sell. Like so to hear other people talking

(58:17):
about like we say, like, the more you talk about it,
the more it reduces the stigma. I think one of
the hardest things about therapy is for so long we've
believed that therapy is for people who are who are
quote unquote crazy and who who who who needs some
type of help. So even going beyond talk therapy, people start,
you know, getting self conscious about it people. So I

(58:38):
think having people so openly talking about it that they
can look at and be like, oh no, it's it's fine,
it's nothing about me, it's just to help. And I
think that you really hit something important about couples therapy too,
because I think people, once again that's another thing. People
assume it's for couples that are that are that are
at the brink, and it's the last thing and it's like, no,

(58:59):
don't wait till you're at that point for couples therapy.
Trust me, if you do it early, you probably won't
get to that point. It's to help you understand each other,
you know, and also to make people feel value, because
there's that tug of war in relationships that you know,
people might feel undervalued or more value, or lack of
understanding in the things that each other are doing or

(59:20):
the headspace. You know, cut all the assuming out, go
to a couple's therapy. Kevin, where can everyone find you? Uh,
let's see lockdown at my house making barbecue random people. Um.
And also I'm at k Beagle k B I E
g L at Twitter and that Kevin Beagle on Instagram. Oh,
I don't follow on Instagram. Follow you actually different content?

(59:44):
Really that sounds spicy, I know it's not. But follow
Kevin on his only fans Yeah, me and Henry Cavill. Yeah.
Now it'll be uh, it'll be Kevin's uh you know
he's he's when he does all the poor barbecue. It'll
be his only hands. Uh yeah yeah, the best friend. Um. Um,

(01:00:11):
well you know me if you wait Twitter and Instagram,
if d's on Twitch, super punch Mondays through Fridays. Now
we're doing five days of the week with me host
in the show and then outside of that doing uh
if he's on Twitch streaming video games when I should
be doing this pilot. Uh. But we got some fun stuff,
you know, me and writer Buddy, we're gonna be doing

(01:00:33):
like digital writer's workshops and all other types of BS
two have that like outlet because and yeah, there's been
a weird spurt of people who have come into my
stream asking writers and writing advice. And I'm like, I'm
trying to don't you see, I'm trying to kill these
weird monsters when you stop reminding me of stuff I'm

(01:00:54):
supposed to be doing. Uh. But yeah, Danny, what about you?
Where are you? Where? Where are people going to hear
that voice at miss Danny Fernandez? As you know, it's
M S D A and I F E R n
A N d e zy if e you and I
I know at least I have officially entered the TikTok world.
Oh my god. I just did it only because it

(01:01:14):
was an idea I had, and I was like, this
is only a TikTok because it's using TikTok but you
ran into the same problem I had. I laughed because
that just happened to me too. I'm like, how does
this work? I feel like a boomer? Um yeah, because
my I made a Selena Michael Jordan's like meme and
then it got flagged for did you add the music yourself?

(01:01:35):
For us? What? They don't have Selena's music on the exactly,
and they'll just choppy if you put in music because
I used music from the site, but I don't know
how to do you know how the kids switch songs
in their TikTok's. I don't know how they're doing that,
so I'm trying to so I thought, oh, maybe I'll
make the TikTok. Then I save it and then I
re uploaded, but then it doesn't recognize as me sourcing

(01:01:57):
it from them, so then I got kicked. So I'm
back to the rolling board. I don't know what's going on. Wow. Wow,
Well I'm at I am Danny Fernandez, right, we've all
had to break brand. People keep trying to take my
names anyway, so he can follow me on there, and
uh yeah, like we always say, stay nerdy and stay healthy.