November 3, 2017 • 39 mins
China is going all in on green technologies. Banks are slowing down the investment in domestic coal mines. People are buying more electric cars than anywhere else. And the country is investing in wind, solar and hydro power unlike any other nation. They're also doubling down on nuclear energy. But what's the end goal? Is this environmental movement really about pleasing the middle class and clearing out the smog? Or is China just positioning itself for economic success?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Guess what, mango, what's that will? I'm not sure if
you saw this, but earlier this year, the Chinese province
of Qinghai successfully powered itself for a full week on
a renewable energy I'm not sure I heard that. So
I had read about this just a little bit, but
I didn't remember the scale of it. So they were
using solar and wind and hydro power, and they managed
to provide power to five point six million residents for
(00:22):
seven full days. I mean, that's more than the population
of Los Angeles. It's more than Chicago. It's more than
Phoenix and Philadelphia and San Antonio combined. It's more than
San Diego, Dallas, Seattle, and Austin combined. I think we
got the idea. It's a lot of people. Yeah, good,
because I think I was about to run out of
my Citi's there. But you know, but all of this
(00:44):
is even more interesting when you consider the images of
big cities in China covered in smog. So it got
me wondering just how serious China is about moving toward
renewable energy. And there's a bigger question here, you know,
are they actually positioned to become the green superpower of
the future. So that's what we're talking about today. Let's
get started. HEIIR podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius.
(01:20):
I'm Will Pearson and has always I'm joined by my
good friend man Guesh Ticketer and on the other side
of the soundproof glass, I think calculating his carbon footprint
as our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. So mego. We're
talking about China today and specifically asking the question will
they become the world's renewable energy superpower? Yeah, and it
feels a little strange to be asking that question given
(01:42):
the reputation China has with its environmental standards. So if
you've ever been to any big city there or even
seen photos, China has had this major air quality problem
for decades now. And if you remember back before the
two Olympics, I feel like there were so many stories
about the Chinese government and how they were like antically
trying to plant flowers and trees and trying to pretty
(02:04):
everything up. It was almost like they had this messy
house and they were rushing to clean before the entire
world was dropping in for a visit. Well, I've actually
never been, but I feel like anyone I know who's
gone just for work or to visit. Briefly, they've returned
talking about that air quality in the big cities. Well,
I actually visited once when I was in eighth grade,
and I do remember being dusty. But the biggest impression
(02:24):
China made on me was that we were in the
McDonald's and it was so fancy. In fact, after we ordered,
we got kicked out because they were having a wedding
there away. Yeah, so that's the first thing I remember.
And and that all the hotels used to give you
slippers because it wasn't uncommon for businessmen to just spit
on the floors, even in the rooms, and these were
nice hotels. Maybe we should change the topic of today's episode.
(02:46):
We'll just talk about McDonald's and hotels. Remember, that's right,
things Mango remembers about China. But I know you did
say it was pretty polluted to and you know, it's
been surprising when you see reporters talking about China leading
this green revolution. So so I do want to talk
about that today. We'll talk about McDonald's another time. So,
I know, like when you mentioned the green revolution thing
(03:06):
to me, I was so confused. I've read this two
thousand fourteen New Yorker piece about this artist Kai Goo Chang.
I'm sure I'm butchering his name, but it was all
about how he walks this fine line of commenting on
environmental issues but doesn't expressly say it because of the government.
And his pieces are totally crazy, Like he had this giant,
(03:27):
rusted out ship that had all these pairs of sick
animals on them, like these wand looking zebras and gazelles
and wolves and whatever on this bizarro Noah's ark, and
he flirted it down this big waterway in Shanghai and
docted at this major art museum. He also made this
super beautiful lake at the museum. It's this piece called
Silent Ink, and he excavated down into the concrete floors.
(03:48):
I'm not sure how he got permission, but then he
filled the space with this old calligraphy inc which just
feels traditional and poetic. But when you're looking at this
lake in a room that's basically all black, you get
the pollution reference, right. And also there was this industrial
chimney in the space and he put three baby dolls
on a swing there and he called an air of Heaven.
I mean, none of this is very subtle. Wow, And
(04:09):
I actually I'm curious, like, how did this guy not
get arrested. Yeah, I have no idea. I mean, this
is a clear critique of the environment and China's handling
of it. But he was also the ardent lighting director
for the Beijing Olympics, so he's really respected and now
he lives in New Jersey. Anyway, Well, I want to
give us a really quick overview of the state of
the environment in China and what they've done in the
past couple of decades, you know, just to set the
(04:29):
stage for what they've been up to recently. Yeah, I'm
happy to do that, and I think it might give
us some perspective to highlight a couple numbers. First, let
me let me look at these. So there are estimates
that seven hundred and fifty thousand people or more die
prematurely each year because of air and water pollution in China,
and some of those estimates say by as much as
five or six years, so it's significant. Yeah, and prepping
(04:50):
for today's show, I saw that only about one percent
of the country's city residents are breathing clean air on
a daily basis. Yeah, it's really staggering and that industrial
air pollution is what led to cancer becoming the lead
cause of death in China. And they've dealt for years
now with major issues around soil contamination, contaminated waterways, and
lead poisoning, but you know, will mostly be focusing on
(05:10):
air quality and to a lesser extent, water quality. And
one other number or index that helps put things in
perspective is the Air Quality Index, and the US Embassy
in Beijing began posting that each day, and then that's
been going on for several years now. So I've actually
seen the air Quality Index before, but can you remind
me what the numbers mean? Sure? And so on the index,
you've got this rating of a hundred one to a
(05:31):
hundred and fifty, which would indicate slight pollution than a
hundred and fifty one, The two hundred means moderate pollution.
Then you've got a range that means heavy pollution all
the way up to three hundred, and then above that
from three oh one to five hundred. This means hazardous
levels of pollution. So it's probably in your best interest
to steer clear of a rating in that range, and
(05:52):
I'm guessing Beijing's is not that good. Well, it was
interesting to see the way the US described it in
their post on the first day Beijing score c coust
the five hundred more. But that was the first time
they actually went above five hundred. Again, this is well
above the hazardous range. This was in November of two
thousand ten, and the way they described it was just
crazy bad. And then they decided to change it to
(06:14):
beyond index. I mean, that's pretty bad when you're going
beyond index, especially when the top two hundred points on
the index already represent hazardous well, and they didn't stop there.
I mean they were readings in two thousand thirteen that
were as high as eight hundreds. Perfect is but not
good in this case. And you know, obviously at this
point the government had to take it more seriously, or
(06:34):
at least paid lip service to taking it more seriously.
So they developed this action plan which would work to
reduce pollution over a several year period and invest in renewables.
So that's when China began investing in renewables. Well, actually
the investments began growing substantially well before this, and that
growth really began in two thousand four, two thousand five,
and and just to illustrate this growth, So in two
(06:56):
thousand four, China invested about three billion dollars on renewable energy,
and maybe that sounds like a big figure, but that
number grew every year after that until two thousand fifteen,
when it reached a hundred and three billion. So again,
that's three billion to a hundred and three billings. Wow,
I mean that's a massively So let's talk about China's
current usage before we break down their plans for the future.
(07:19):
All right, Well, let's start with the fact that, not surprisingly,
China uses more energy than any other country. And I
think we would expect that given their population. And in
two thousand and fifteen, China consumed a little over twenty
of what's known as the world's final total consumption of fuel.
So this would be the combination of oil, natural gas, coal, electricity, biofuels,
and any other sources. Yeah, so this was crazy to me.
(07:41):
I was actually looking at a list of the largest
energy uses in the world, and apparently on a per
capita basis, China isn't the biggest defender, or even then
the top ten for that matter, it's Iceland. And that's
all misleading because it's a calculation of all sources of energy,
So Iceland's primarily renewable space energy gets counted into this,
(08:01):
and also having a small population throws off the statistic too.
But what's weird is that the US also comes in
ahead of China on a para capita energy usage basis. Okay,
so so let's get back to China. How does their
energy usage breakdown? I don't know if I'm ready to
get back to China. I still want to talk about Iceland.
Why are they using so much energy? I know it's renewables.
We we won't get into that. So all right, Well,
(08:22):
coal is still king in China, and while it's been
declining in terms of the percentage of the country's energy production,
it's still accounts for a little over sixty of this production,
and that's now maybe seven or eight percent over the
past few years. But you know, to say coal is
big in China is a huge understatement. I think, trying
to produce something like forty five percent of the world's
coal in two thousand and sixteen. But in addition to that,
(08:45):
it's also the largest importer of coal. So this is
just a tremendous amount of coal there. And I know
the government has been shutting down some coal mines and
have talked about restrictions on building new plants. But much
like we've heard discussed in the US, there are a
ton of people were employed by the coal industry. I
think I saw this New York Times figure that had
it at about four million coal miners. Yeah, so it's
(09:07):
it's a ton of jobs. And and actually let's keep
that number in mind when we talk about the economic
opportunity on the renewables front, just to see how it compares.
But you know, if you've ever seen any stories or
films about the lives of coal miners and several of
the rural minds in China, it's an incredibly dangerous job.
And we hear about the dangerous conditions for miners here
in the States, but the number of deaths each year
(09:28):
in Chinese minds are just staggering. And this is despite
the regulations from the Chinese government, because you know, when
there's seventeen thousand minds in a country, it's really difficult
to actually crack down on the illegally operated minds. These
have inadequate ventilation, poorly supported tunnels. But that could definitely
be its own episode. And I know we're going to
focus on the impact of the industry as a whole.
(09:51):
But actually you were telling me earlier about a statistic
on CEO two emissions there. Yeah, let me just find
this because I want to get the numbers right. But
one report I was looking at noted then two thousand
and fifteen, China produce just shy of thirty percent of
the world's total c O two emissions from fuel combustion,
and that actually makes it the world's biggest polluter. However,
they keep coming back to this per capital defense, which
(10:13):
shows they're not at the top of the list when
measured per capita. I mean, I remember cheering about this
way back in the early OTTs, that there were all
these developing countries that thought it was unfair that the
US was imposing these environmental restrictions on them, especially at
a time when they were having their industrial booms. Because
of course, countries in the West grew without real concern
for polluting in their own industrial revolutions and then tapered
(10:37):
back once they were like these bustling economies. But I mean,
it's it's really interesting to note that back in China
produce less than six percent of the world's CEO two
emissions and now it's thirty so it's been this massive increase,
and especially since the early two thousand's when emissions really skyrocket,
is so six percent to Yeah, that is that is huge. Alright,
(10:59):
So so coal is the biggie here. Well, actually, what
about oil? I mean, I know you were looking into
their oil usage and are they also the biggest user
there too? And I know I've seen several stories about
how much the auto industry has been growing in China. Yeah,
so car sales have grown tremendously, with twenty four million
more people getting cars in two thousand fifteen. And here's
(11:19):
what's crazy. So the economists noted that China is at
about a hundred twenty vehicles per a thousand people, which
is around the level of America and the nineteen twenties.
So if you think about that figure, it's inevitable that's
going to grow significantly in and with that, the demand
for oil is definitely going to increase as well. But
despite that, they still haven't cracked the top ten in
(11:40):
oil usage still. I mean, oil provided about of China's
energy in two thousand fifteen. All right, well, let's briefly
talk about natural gas and nuclear and neither of them
are currently a significant percentage of China's energy usage. And
then we'll talk about China's role in the green revolution. Definitely,
So China actually produces less energy from natural gas than
(12:00):
it does from renewable sources. But we should note that
the US is both the largest producer and the largest
user of natural gas in the world. Okay, so what
about nuclear I mean, the the US is the biggest
producer there too, right, Definitely, so the US is the
biggest producer by a pretty wide margin. It's nearly twice
as much the next biggest, and that would be France.
But it is interesting way when you look at France,
(12:21):
like how they use it. They produce a whopping seventy
eight percent of its electricity from nuclear power. Yeah, and
China produces about three percent of its power from nuclear
But China appears to be investing more than pretty much
everyone else in the space. So just last year they
brought on five new reactors, which is the most they've
ever brought on in a year, and they're almost a
(12:42):
couple dozen more being built right now. In fact, China
accounted for pretty much all of the global nuclear power
increase in two thousand sixteen. That's huge. All right. Well, well,
I know we're going to take a break for a
quiz in a minute, but before we do, I feel
like I can actually hear some of our listeners screaming
at their phones or speakers and saying, you know, why
did you put nuclear in the no on renewable sources
of energy? Because nuclear will be very good for air quality,
(13:03):
and I feel like we need to address that really quickly. Yeah. So,
there's this ongoing debate of where to classify nuclear energy,
and part of the debate just has to do with
how exactly you define renewable energy. Yeah, that's right. And technically,
renewable energy is a form that's capable of regenerating or
replenishing itself indefinitely. So we're typically talking hydro solar, wind, geothermal, biomass.
(13:27):
But you know, nuclear energy, on the other hand, generally
requires uranium for the fission process, and that's where the
heat is generated. Then the nuclear plants convert this heat
into the electricity using steam. So according to that definition,
uranium is this finite resource. Yeah, but those in support
of classifying it as a renewable resource, they point out
that one of the main points of focusing on renewable
(13:48):
resources is to create cleaner power, and that nuclear power
provides this low carbon emission option, so they argue that
focus shouldn't be on whether the resources technically finite so
much as whether it reduces carbon emissions. But many opponents
are actually not pointing to its status as of finite
resources their main objection. I mean, many of them feel
(14:09):
that the harmful nuclear waste that's produced in the process
of creating nuclear energy, that's what's problematic and allowing it
to be classified as renewable. But either way, it's definitely
a much cleaner source than coal when it comes to
carbon emissions, and this is something China appears to be
taking pretty seriously. Well, now that we've got out of
our system, why don't we take a quick break for
a quiz. So I want to be honest about something.
(14:41):
So our guest today, Um certainly has many international connections,
and that might have been part of the excuse for
bringing on the show today, but I actually want to
admit that the real reason that she's on is she's
the first person who's written in with the fun fact
that her older brother is a competitive curler in the
state of North Dakota. Have you have you ever met
(15:02):
anyone who's a curler in the state of North Dakota Ango, No,
I haven't. So that's that's that's a big bonus here.
But Jordan Terry, welcome to Part Time Genius. Thanks for
having me guys. So, Jordan, where are you joining us
from today? I am in Denver, Colorado. Wonderful. I love Denver. Well,
we'll tell us a little bit of what you do there.
Um So, I'm in Denver because I'm studying to get
my massive degree in global finance. Um So, we do
(15:25):
study a lot about trade and specifically China for sure.
Um But I am also working full time remotely right
now UM as an academic director for an intercultural institute
that has locations all over the world. Um So, I
work in terms of managing teachers and supporting academic departments
(15:49):
at UM several institutes that have academic programs for locals,
and we work in a lot of areas that have
like development needs so that we can receive international students
who want to study abroad and also do some volunteering
abroad as well. I think that's super cool, that's wonderful.
I do have to ask though, when you share the
(16:10):
fact about your brother being a competitive curler, is that
true or were you really just using that to try
to get on the show. It is true. He's my
younger brother actually, um. And so he is a junior
at North Dakota State University and he decided to go
there because he'd be able to continue curling. Um. And
we're actually hoping for Bago for the Winter Olympics for
(16:33):
him and his teammates. So our fingers are crossed. That's amazing.
I actually saw on TV last night, I think the
US curling team was playing the Scottish curling team, which
is is just amazing that that's a televised event. But uh,
I also really love that you come from this family
of athletes, right. Your dad was in the Junior Olympics
as a skier. But but you've read Harry Potter every
(16:55):
book at least two dozen times? Is that true? That
is true. I'm not as huge a fan of the movies.
I have seen them all multiple times, um, But I
grew up with Harry Potter. I got the first and
second books right after they came out, and so in
the anticipation every year of waiting for the next book
to come out. I would reread them all over and
over again. I say, the first three or four I've
(17:18):
read even more than that, and then the last few,
like I do an annual reread of the whole series.
And that's wonderful. It's a true athlete, just like the
rest of the family. That's uh, that's amazing. Alright. Well,
as you know, today's episode is asking the question about
whether China will become a green superpower, and so we're
focused on several alternative energies in this in this episode.
(17:41):
But Mango, what what quiz are we putting Jordan to
the test with today? It's called the Alternative Alternative Energy Quiz?
All right, the Alternative Alternative Energy Quiz. We've got five
true or false questions for you. Are you ready Jordan's
I guess? Okay, here we go. Question number one. In Rotterdam,
there's a sustained bill dance club called Club What where
(18:02):
the electricity for the lights and speakers is generated by
footsteps from ravers feet. Is this true or false? That
has to be true? Yeah, it is. And the club
also features a tapwater bar and toilets that are flushed
with rainwater. Wow, alright, She's one for one. Question number two.
In two thousand eleven, two artists designed a line of
(18:24):
carnivorous furniture based on venus fly traps. Their digital clock
catches insects and can be powered for twelve days on
eight dead flies. Is this true or false? That is
so ridiculous. I could imagine Mango writing that fact, but oh,
it's actually true. They also have a lamp powered on
(18:47):
insects and a table that feeds on mice and has
lights on under it. It's crazy. I have to be
honest with you, Jordan. I I felt for that one
as well. As soon as I read that, I was like, Oh,
that's a total Mango lie. That is that's too good
to be through. Alright, one one out of two. The
question number three, The Army has developed a line of
radios and phones that run on sugar cubes instead of
(19:10):
batteries using Splendor. However, will jam up the circuits? True?
Or faults that? Yeah? You're right, all right. Question number four.
Iceland runs a deep drilling project that's been drilling three
miles into the ground to harness energy from super hot magma.
True or faults? Um? I don't know. Iceland is a
(19:33):
pretty I think Iceland is a pretty sustainable place and
lots of drilling doesn't really line up, But that does
sound like something that could be possible, so true. Yeah,
you're right. I mean Iceland uses a number of these
geo thermal wells, but this one should actually be able
to supply fifty homes with natural energy. Alright, that's awesome.
So Jordan, you're three out of four so far, the
(19:54):
last one for the Big Prize. Here we go, question
number five. In Australia, dairy armors have been tying special
plastic bags two cows backsides to capture their gas, or
rather their methane gas. They then sell the energy back
to the state. Is this true or false? Yeah, you're right.
(20:15):
I mean there are a few scientists working on extracting
methane from cow patties, but actually bagging your cow from
the behind isn't actually a practice. Let's not use that
phrase anymore. I think maybe we should avoid that one.
But all right, question so she Uh so Jordan has
gotten four out of five? Is that right? Mango? Yeah? Absolutely,
(20:36):
and that entitles her to our big prize, which today
is will be pony expressing her an official part time
Genius Certificate of Genius which you can put on her
fridge or frame for her mother, and will also send
her a box of Nerd Candies, which is the official
candy of Part Time Genius. Wow. Well, congratulations, Jordan's best
of luck to you and your job, and best of
(20:57):
luck to your brother and his efforts to to go
of Beijing and the next Olympics. But thank you so
much for joining us today on Part Time Genius. My pleasure. Guys,
thank you. Welcome back to Part Time Genius. So before
(21:21):
the break, we were looking at the breakdown of China's
primary sources of energy. We had coal, oil, nuclear, and
to a lesser extent, natural gas. So let's talk about
the investment in renewable energies and this idea that China
could become the big superpower because of their investment in
green technologies. Yeah. So, as we talked about earlier in
the show, China's ranked up its investment in renewable energy
(21:43):
significantly since two thousand four. They've gone from a total
of three billion dollars in two thousand four to a
hundred and three billion in two thousand fifteen, and now
in two thousand and sixteen that number did fall to
a little below ninety billion, as it did in many
locations across the globe, and that's partly because of these
populist movements that have been taken hold across the globe.
So that's like the ones experience in the UK with
(22:05):
the Independence Party and here in the US with Donald Trump.
But even at this level, we're still talking thirty times
more than what was spending two thousand four. Yeah, it's
a huge increase. And the Chinese government officials announced in
January that the country plans to spend over three hundred
and sixty billion dollars on renewable energy through and they've
stated goals of having fifteen percent of energy consumption being
(22:27):
from renewable sources by and then thirty by, which is crazy.
But this is the part I'm excited to talk about,
and that's why China is making these changes, and that
is what what are their motivations, because there's more involved
than just making a cleaner environment. Yeah it's true, you know,
but the public outcry over deadly urban air pollution has
accelerated this push for clean energy. NPR recently had this
(22:50):
story on how China's middle class has really been pushing
for change, and that the state run paper had a
story on three mothers and how they were dealing with pollution.
One of them kept their kids inside barricaded with multiple
air purifiers running. One moved away from the city entirely
just for her children's health, and the story was heavily circulated.
(23:10):
That is, of course, before the government censored it. There
was also this two thousand fifteen documentary called Under the Dome.
It was watched two hundred million times and praised by
the environmental ministry before that also got pulled by the government.
And the government is clearly aware of the problem, but
it's also very clear that it doesn't want to be
criticized for it either. Well, it's hard to ignore the
(23:32):
I mean, National Geographic estimated that more than one million
people die each year due to air pollution. So that
urban middle classes making noise for a reason. Yeah, but
like you were heading at that, you know, the other
compelling reason is the economic impact. Is Anton lu who's
a professor at Indiana University School of Public and Environmental Affairs,
told National Geographic quote, it's not just pollution that's driving
(23:54):
the determined focus on renewable power. Leaders have made clear
that they view clean energy as a powerful engine for
job creation. It's about setting up for manufacturing dominance. China
sees green energy as an opportunity where it can become
a manufacturing monster, the way it has in clothes and
toys monster. So I know, I'm just stringing quotes here,
which is something my journalism teacher from high school and
(24:16):
mrs where he asked me never to do. But this
is not a good quote from the Financial Times Deputy
Beijing bureau chief and her name's Lucy Hornsby, and this
is what she says. Quote. The Chinese point of view
is that, Okay, everyone's worried about climate change. The western
countries are about to plow a whole lot of money
into trying to stop it happening. We can supply the
(24:36):
manufactured goods, we can supply the wind turbines, we can
supply the solar panels. So the whole paris climate change
action is viewed as a massive export opportunity for China inc. So,
I mean you can see there this investment is definitely
creating jobs. And if you remember that four million coal
miners that we were talking about, well, China already claims
to have three point five million jobs in the clean
(24:59):
energy space, which is far more than any other country,
and the goal is to create ten million jobs in
clean energy and that's part of this move to have
fifteen percent of energy coming from clean energy sources by
ten million, that is huge. Well, I think many would
see this as the real motivator for China's investment. And
we'll talk in a few minutes about why there's some
real skepticism over their desire to actually battle global warming.
(25:22):
But let's get back to where China stands in their
investments in renewable energy. So which one of these do
you want to talk about first? Well, I think we
should talk about hydropower, just because I like saying the
word hydro d So, China produces more hydro electricity than
any other country on Earth, and it's not even close.
Like Canada comes in second, and they only produce about
one third of what China does. And if you want
(25:44):
to illustrate what their investment has done, in nineteen seventy three,
China produced about three percent of the world's hydro electric power,
and the two thousand fifteen it was nearly about a
fifth of their electricity comes from hydro power. That's impressive.
What we should pause for a second though, to note
the country that gets the greatest percentage of its power
from hydro electricity. I was looking this up and it's
(26:04):
actually Norway. So they get about nineties six pc of
their power from hydro Isn't that incredible? It is. I
feel like we should send them a certificate of some kind.
Let's let's work on it, and definitely so check your
mail Norway sometime in the future. Anyway, let's talk about
another one where China has grown its global share tenfold
over the past decade, and that's wind power. So just
(26:27):
a second, I'm going to pull out these stats. So
they went from producing about two percent of the world's
wind power in two thousand five to in two thousand fifteen.
And the US currently produces a slightly larger percentage at
but given the level of investment, you have to imagine
China is going to be passing the US before too long. Well,
when you look at these numbers, I don't think there's
(26:48):
any question about that. And here are some recent numbers
I saw from earlier this year. China produces almost half
of the world's wind turbines Goldwin, which is a Chinese
company is now the largest wind turbine manufacturer in the world,
and five of the top ten wind turbine manufacturers of
the world are in China. I mean, that's just huge.
And according to New York Times, one out of every
(27:08):
three turbines in the world is also located in China. So,
you know, while the US may have produced slightly more
power in recent years from wind, with all the new
wind turbines in China, there's something like nine two thousand
of them, and they have the capacity to generate almost
twice as much wind power as the US. So well,
only three percent of China's power is currently coming from wind,
(27:29):
that that number doesn't fully reflect the impact they're having
on the industry and how that sector is positioned for
significant growth there. Yeah, and one of the issues they're
currently dealing with now is how much of their wind
power is being wasted or curtailed as they might say. So,
what's I mean exactly? Well, curtailman is something that you
hear about when wind turbines or solar panels stopped producing
(27:49):
and this is happening even though they could produce more,
and as a result, you lose that surplus energy and
This often happens if a power grid is overwhelmed and
not really appropriately equipped to handle all the energy coming
into it. Look at the numbers. In two thousand sixteen,
nearly twenty of wind energy was lost because of curtailment.
So that's something the government is really trying to tackle
(28:10):
and they have a plan to get that down to
about five percent by Okay. So before we move on,
we we forgot to name the country that gets the
greatest percentage of its power from wind, and that title
belongs to Spain at about eighteen So great job, Space. Yeah,
you might also get a sort of you will get
a certificate wo stepping up. Okay, all right, so we
(28:31):
just mentioned solar, so why don't we talk about that
one next. And this is another one where even though
they're at about one percent of their electricity generated coming
from solar, they're still playing a huge role in the
future of this industry. Again, just look at the numbers.
So China is now producing two thirds of the world's
solar panels, and in a five year period they've increased
their solar power production tenfold. In two thousand and fifteen,
(28:54):
they produced eighteen percent of the world solar electricity. And
I saw one quote from the New York Times earlier
this year, and that said quote Greenpeace estimates that China
covered the equivalent of one soccer field every hour with
solar panels. Wow, and I know you're a big soccer fans.
I'm sure that quote really hit home with you. Yeah,
but just look at what their investment has done in
(29:16):
this industry. So six of the top ten solar panel
manufacturers are Chinese companies, and two thirds of the world's
solar panels come from China. I mean, they're the ones
responsible for the huge decline in prices, and some estimates
has solar panel pricing falling by as much as over
the past ten years or so. So when you think
about it from an environmental perspective, this investment has been
(29:38):
a good thing. But again it's largely driven by economics
and China wants to own this space. And now there
are more than two and a half million people employed
by the solar power industry there. That's about ten times
as many people employed by that industry in the US.
And China is now home did the largest solar farm
on Earth. And here's how Tom Phillips, he's a reporter
for The Guardian described it, quote, high on the Tibetan Plateau,
(30:02):
a sea of nearly four million deep blue panels flows
towards a spectacular horizon of snow capped mountains, mile after
mile of silicon cells tilting skywards from what was once
a barren, wind swept cattle ranch. The remote seven square
kilometers solar farm tops an ever expanding roll call of
supersized symbols that underlying China's determination to transform itself from
(30:24):
climate villain to green superpower. And that's a cool description.
But actually, just as a side, now, did you hear
about the huge solar panel farm that's actually shaped like
a giant panda bear? I mean I did see that,
but I was curious, what was it actually real? Yeah,
this was pretty widely reported on it and when I
saw the image at first, I wondered the same thing,
and so I turned to the always fascinating Snopes just
(30:46):
to check this out. And it it turns out the
solar panel farm itself is real. But the image that
was all over the place you might have seen on
various websites, that was just an artist rendering and it's
not an actual photo. But the farm is apparently two
d and five acres, and there are plans to build
a hundred more of these panda shaped solar farms across
China and other countries in Asia. Kind of makes you
(31:08):
want to just travel by plane across the country when
all of these are there, just to see them. And
it's totally worth googling just to see the image, even
if it's not an actual photo. Yeah. I mean, it's
fascinating to see how Chinese companies are improving their solar
technology each year, and they're figuring out how to build
these panels cheaper and cheaper, but still maintaining this incredible
level of quality. And they're not just selling to the
(31:28):
US anymore. I mean, we're we're talking countries like Saudi
Arabia and India, whether they need to provide panels for
extremely dry climates, are incredibly humid ones, they're finding ways
to produce them well. And this has all happened because
of this huge government push to get really low interest
rate loans too solar panel manufacturers. And I want to
say it was something like eighteen billion dollars in loans.
(31:48):
The government got state owned banks to give to these companies,
and this was just over a six or seven year period.
So the focus on investing in these kinds of businesses
and becoming a leader in them is also connected to
mine is Belt and Road initiative, and this is the
massive infrastructure investment. China's leading across the historic Silk Road
and that connects Asia to Europe. They've got nearly seventy
(32:10):
countries to join in this effort in some way, and
the plan is for China to invest about I think
it's like a hundred and fifty billion dollars each year
in infrastructure. So we're talking bridges, roads, railways, power plants, pipelines,
things like that. And you know, this is definitely a
very different China than we were used to seeing, you know,
just a couple of decades ago. Well, I mean that
brings us back to the comment earlier about China's real
(32:33):
motivation in this massive investment in green technologies. Yeah, well,
the huge outcry from the urban middle class definitely had
an impact, you know, as as as Beth Gardner noted
in a PC wrote for National Geographic Quote, the results
are sometimes more cosmetic than real. Leaders order temporary factory
closures to clear the air ahead of something. You know,
these high profile events like international summits, they close factories
(32:56):
for weeks in November December just so the city won't
exceed its annual pollut shin limit. That's crazy. But what
seems even more alarming to me is that while coal
plant construction is being limited within Chinese borders, Chinese companies
are actually building coal plants abroad. And when you look
at the new coal projects going online over the next
decade or so, Chinese companies are responsible for about half
(33:17):
of them, and countries like India, Vietnam, Mongolia, Iran, Indonesia.
Some of these are in countries that haven't historically used
coal as an energy source, and they're looking to expand
in places like Pakistan and Egypt, which aren't currently really
cold burning countries. So while we might be celebrating the
significant investment in green technologies in China itself, like these
(33:38):
new plants in the works would increase the world's capacity
to burn coal by over well. And I was looking
at a figure the other day, so two of the
big global banks in China have finance more than forty
billion dollars in overseas coal projects over the past couple
of decades. I think it's pretty clear that China maybe
trying to some extent to clean up their own small
and pollution problem, but I'm not sure how much they
(33:59):
care about the real global situation. Yeah, but I still
feel like there are a couple of reasons to be optimistic.
So first, as we talked about earlier, China's massive investment
has caused the prices of renewable technologies to drop significantly
across the globe, and they'll likely continue to get cheaper.
There's a Chinese company currently constructing a solar farm in
the UAE, and it's going to produce electricity for much
(34:21):
less than it costs US companies to produce both solar
and coal power. Well, and I also saw it's much
faster to build a solar or wind farm than it
is to get a coal fired plan up and running.
I mean, we're we're talking a huge difference. It's something
like six months versus about ten years. I had no
idea it took that long. So another thing is that
China is certainly not alone in implementing new policies to
(34:42):
restrict coal productions. So take India for example, They're trying
to get over half their energy from renewable sources by seven,
and that's just incredible. You have to think that worldwide
momentum is just going to continue. Yeah, and it that
is incredible, it's it's also encouraging. Yeah. So there's one
more big reason to be optimistic, and that's the fact
that investors are much more likely to get behind clean
(35:03):
energy projects these days. The World Bank doesn't provide financing
to overseas coal projects and that's, you know, aside from
the rare exception because of extreme circumstances, and many Chinese
banks are falling in line with this practice. So a
lot of analysts think we're just seeing the beginning of
this tremendous acceleration of renewable adoption around the world. Well,
those those definitely seem like reasons to be optimistic. And
(35:25):
but but I do feel like there's maybe one more
reason to be optimistic. Is a fact off time you
bet it is? M all right, well, I'll kick us
off here. So have you heard about America's first completely
solar powered community? Is this seventeen thousand acre town in
(35:48):
South Florida, and it's called Babcock Ranch. It's expected to
begin accepting residents before the end of the year and
The project has taken about a decade or so to
get together, but it's coming soon. And when you're there,
you'll be able to get around by self driving shuttles.
And that's pretty interesting to read about. But you better
hurry because the town's capacity is only fifty thousand. So
I've got a solar power fact too. We talked about
(36:10):
the panda shaped solar panel farm, but there's a hundred
square mile floating solar farm in the Anui province. I mean,
like in the air, floating and no, I mean it's
in water. Their waveproof solar panels, and and they're floating
on a lake that formed, oddly enough after the collapse
of a network of coal mines. It's the world's largest
floating solar project, and it generates enough power to provide
(36:32):
electricity to a significant portion of a city nearby. I
mean the government plans to expand the system to about
a dozen other locations, which would then generate the power
equivalent of a commercial nuclear reactor. Did you know that
part of the reason people are speaking up in China
about the environment is because of religion. According to the
New York Times, hundreds of millions of people in China
have turned to Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam recently, and
(36:54):
apparently as concepts like karma and sin have come to
the forefront, the public has paid more attention to their
impact on the environment and the world. People have also
used their religions as a reason to speak up. That's
really fascinating. So in two thousand tend the Wall Street
Journal report on a scientist at Berkeley who determined how
to trace pollutents back to areas of origin. And this
is what she found. Apparently twenty nine percent of the
(37:16):
pollution in the East Bay traced back to China. I mean,
the article ended on this smart point though quote. The
question now is how much of that twenty nine percent
can be attributed to San Francisco's penchant for China made
iPhones and iPads. All Right, So we talked earlier about
the significant growth of the auto market in China, and
China is also the leader in electric vehicle sales, with
nearly half of all electric vehicles sold in two thousand
(37:39):
sixteen being in China. Well, I know that's impressive, but
I think I've got an even more staggering figure, and
that's that there are now two hundred million electric bikes
in China, which is way more than the six electric
cars and three electric buses there. I mean, they're a
great option for those who can afford cars but are
looking for an easier way to commute. Plus is their
(38:00):
mission free. Two hundred million of these things? All right, Well,
I have to admit, a mag you've definitely one up
to me here, so I'm going to give you the
Fact Off Trophy today. Congratulations, excellent, and I'm never giving
it back. All right, all right, hey, guys, thanks so
much for listening. Don't forget we love hearing from you.
Call us any time on Fact hot Line. That's one
(38:20):
eight four four pt Genius or email us at part
Time Genius at how stuff Works dot com. A big
thanks to Jocelyn Sears for her excellent research on this episode.
See you next time. Thanks again for listening. Part Time
(38:44):
Genius is a production of How Stuff Works and wouldn't
be possible without several brilliant people who do the important
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(39:05):
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Good job, Eves. If you like what you heard, we
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you've heard, maybe you could leave a good review for us.
Do we do? We forget Jason? Jason who
Guess what, mango, what's that will? I'm not sure if
you saw this, but earlier this year, the Chinese province
of Qinghai successfully powered itself for a full week on
a renewable energy I'm not sure I heard that. So
I had read about this just a little bit, but
I didn't remember the scale of it. So they were
using solar and wind and hydro power, and they managed
to provide power to five point six million residents for
(00:22):
seven full days. I mean, that's more than the population
of Los Angeles. It's more than Chicago. It's more than
Phoenix and Philadelphia and San Antonio combined. It's more than
San Diego, Dallas, Seattle, and Austin combined. I think we
got the idea. It's a lot of people. Yeah, good,
because I think I was about to run out of
my Citi's there. But you know, but all of this
(00:44):
is even more interesting when you consider the images of
big cities in China covered in smog. So it got
me wondering just how serious China is about moving toward
renewable energy. And there's a bigger question here, you know,
are they actually positioned to become the green superpower of
the future. So that's what we're talking about today. Let's
get started. HEIIR podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius.
(01:20):
I'm Will Pearson and has always I'm joined by my
good friend man Guesh Ticketer and on the other side
of the soundproof glass, I think calculating his carbon footprint
as our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. So mego. We're
talking about China today and specifically asking the question will
they become the world's renewable energy superpower? Yeah, and it
feels a little strange to be asking that question given
(01:42):
the reputation China has with its environmental standards. So if
you've ever been to any big city there or even
seen photos, China has had this major air quality problem
for decades now. And if you remember back before the
two Olympics, I feel like there were so many stories
about the Chinese government and how they were like antically
trying to plant flowers and trees and trying to pretty
(02:04):
everything up. It was almost like they had this messy
house and they were rushing to clean before the entire
world was dropping in for a visit. Well, I've actually
never been, but I feel like anyone I know who's
gone just for work or to visit. Briefly, they've returned
talking about that air quality in the big cities. Well,
I actually visited once when I was in eighth grade,
and I do remember being dusty. But the biggest impression
(02:24):
China made on me was that we were in the
McDonald's and it was so fancy. In fact, after we ordered,
we got kicked out because they were having a wedding
there away. Yeah, so that's the first thing I remember.
And and that all the hotels used to give you
slippers because it wasn't uncommon for businessmen to just spit
on the floors, even in the rooms, and these were
nice hotels. Maybe we should change the topic of today's episode.
(02:46):
We'll just talk about McDonald's and hotels. Remember, that's right,
things Mango remembers about China. But I know you did
say it was pretty polluted to and you know, it's
been surprising when you see reporters talking about China leading
this green revolution. So so I do want to talk
about that today. We'll talk about McDonald's another time. So,
I know, like when you mentioned the green revolution thing
(03:06):
to me, I was so confused. I've read this two
thousand fourteen New Yorker piece about this artist Kai Goo Chang.
I'm sure I'm butchering his name, but it was all
about how he walks this fine line of commenting on
environmental issues but doesn't expressly say it because of the government.
And his pieces are totally crazy, Like he had this giant,
(03:27):
rusted out ship that had all these pairs of sick
animals on them, like these wand looking zebras and gazelles
and wolves and whatever on this bizarro Noah's ark, and
he flirted it down this big waterway in Shanghai and
docted at this major art museum. He also made this
super beautiful lake at the museum. It's this piece called
Silent Ink, and he excavated down into the concrete floors.
(03:48):
I'm not sure how he got permission, but then he
filled the space with this old calligraphy inc which just
feels traditional and poetic. But when you're looking at this
lake in a room that's basically all black, you get
the pollution reference, right. And also there was this industrial
chimney in the space and he put three baby dolls
on a swing there and he called an air of Heaven.
I mean, none of this is very subtle. Wow, And
(04:09):
I actually I'm curious, like, how did this guy not
get arrested. Yeah, I have no idea. I mean, this
is a clear critique of the environment and China's handling
of it. But he was also the ardent lighting director
for the Beijing Olympics, so he's really respected and now
he lives in New Jersey. Anyway, Well, I want to
give us a really quick overview of the state of
the environment in China and what they've done in the
past couple of decades, you know, just to set the
(04:29):
stage for what they've been up to recently. Yeah, I'm
happy to do that, and I think it might give
us some perspective to highlight a couple numbers. First, let
me let me look at these. So there are estimates
that seven hundred and fifty thousand people or more die
prematurely each year because of air and water pollution in China,
and some of those estimates say by as much as
five or six years, so it's significant. Yeah, and prepping
(04:50):
for today's show, I saw that only about one percent
of the country's city residents are breathing clean air on
a daily basis. Yeah, it's really staggering and that industrial
air pollution is what led to cancer becoming the lead
cause of death in China. And they've dealt for years
now with major issues around soil contamination, contaminated waterways, and
lead poisoning, but you know, will mostly be focusing on
(05:10):
air quality and to a lesser extent, water quality. And
one other number or index that helps put things in
perspective is the Air Quality Index, and the US Embassy
in Beijing began posting that each day, and then that's
been going on for several years now. So I've actually
seen the air Quality Index before, but can you remind
me what the numbers mean? Sure? And so on the index,
you've got this rating of a hundred one to a
(05:31):
hundred and fifty, which would indicate slight pollution than a
hundred and fifty one, The two hundred means moderate pollution.
Then you've got a range that means heavy pollution all
the way up to three hundred, and then above that
from three oh one to five hundred. This means hazardous
levels of pollution. So it's probably in your best interest
to steer clear of a rating in that range, and
(05:52):
I'm guessing Beijing's is not that good. Well, it was
interesting to see the way the US described it in
their post on the first day Beijing score c coust
the five hundred more. But that was the first time
they actually went above five hundred. Again, this is well
above the hazardous range. This was in November of two
thousand ten, and the way they described it was just
crazy bad. And then they decided to change it to
(06:14):
beyond index. I mean, that's pretty bad when you're going
beyond index, especially when the top two hundred points on
the index already represent hazardous well, and they didn't stop there.
I mean they were readings in two thousand thirteen that
were as high as eight hundreds. Perfect is but not
good in this case. And you know, obviously at this
point the government had to take it more seriously, or
(06:34):
at least paid lip service to taking it more seriously.
So they developed this action plan which would work to
reduce pollution over a several year period and invest in renewables.
So that's when China began investing in renewables. Well, actually
the investments began growing substantially well before this, and that
growth really began in two thousand four, two thousand five,
and and just to illustrate this growth, So in two
(06:56):
thousand four, China invested about three billion dollars on renewable energy,
and maybe that sounds like a big figure, but that
number grew every year after that until two thousand fifteen,
when it reached a hundred and three billion. So again,
that's three billion to a hundred and three billings. Wow,
I mean that's a massively So let's talk about China's
current usage before we break down their plans for the future.
(07:19):
All right, Well, let's start with the fact that, not surprisingly,
China uses more energy than any other country. And I
think we would expect that given their population. And in
two thousand and fifteen, China consumed a little over twenty
of what's known as the world's final total consumption of fuel.
So this would be the combination of oil, natural gas, coal, electricity, biofuels,
and any other sources. Yeah, so this was crazy to me.
(07:41):
I was actually looking at a list of the largest
energy uses in the world, and apparently on a per
capita basis, China isn't the biggest defender, or even then
the top ten for that matter, it's Iceland. And that's
all misleading because it's a calculation of all sources of energy,
So Iceland's primarily renewable space energy gets counted into this,
(08:01):
and also having a small population throws off the statistic too.
But what's weird is that the US also comes in
ahead of China on a para capita energy usage basis. Okay,
so so let's get back to China. How does their
energy usage breakdown? I don't know if I'm ready to
get back to China. I still want to talk about Iceland.
Why are they using so much energy? I know it's renewables.
We we won't get into that. So all right, Well,
(08:22):
coal is still king in China, and while it's been
declining in terms of the percentage of the country's energy production,
it's still accounts for a little over sixty of this production,
and that's now maybe seven or eight percent over the
past few years. But you know, to say coal is
big in China is a huge understatement. I think, trying
to produce something like forty five percent of the world's
coal in two thousand and sixteen. But in addition to that,
(08:45):
it's also the largest importer of coal. So this is
just a tremendous amount of coal there. And I know
the government has been shutting down some coal mines and
have talked about restrictions on building new plants. But much
like we've heard discussed in the US, there are a
ton of people were employed by the coal industry. I
think I saw this New York Times figure that had
it at about four million coal miners. Yeah, so it's
(09:07):
it's a ton of jobs. And and actually let's keep
that number in mind when we talk about the economic
opportunity on the renewables front, just to see how it compares.
But you know, if you've ever seen any stories or
films about the lives of coal miners and several of
the rural minds in China, it's an incredibly dangerous job.
And we hear about the dangerous conditions for miners here
in the States, but the number of deaths each year
(09:28):
in Chinese minds are just staggering. And this is despite
the regulations from the Chinese government, because you know, when
there's seventeen thousand minds in a country, it's really difficult
to actually crack down on the illegally operated minds. These
have inadequate ventilation, poorly supported tunnels. But that could definitely
be its own episode. And I know we're going to
focus on the impact of the industry as a whole.
(09:51):
But actually you were telling me earlier about a statistic
on CEO two emissions there. Yeah, let me just find
this because I want to get the numbers right. But
one report I was looking at noted then two thousand
and fifteen, China produce just shy of thirty percent of
the world's total c O two emissions from fuel combustion,
and that actually makes it the world's biggest polluter. However,
they keep coming back to this per capital defense, which
(10:13):
shows they're not at the top of the list when
measured per capita. I mean, I remember cheering about this
way back in the early OTTs, that there were all
these developing countries that thought it was unfair that the
US was imposing these environmental restrictions on them, especially at
a time when they were having their industrial booms. Because
of course, countries in the West grew without real concern
for polluting in their own industrial revolutions and then tapered
(10:37):
back once they were like these bustling economies. But I mean,
it's it's really interesting to note that back in China
produce less than six percent of the world's CEO two
emissions and now it's thirty so it's been this massive increase,
and especially since the early two thousand's when emissions really skyrocket,
is so six percent to Yeah, that is that is huge. Alright,
(10:59):
So so coal is the biggie here. Well, actually, what
about oil? I mean, I know you were looking into
their oil usage and are they also the biggest user
there too? And I know I've seen several stories about
how much the auto industry has been growing in China. Yeah,
so car sales have grown tremendously, with twenty four million
more people getting cars in two thousand fifteen. And here's
(11:19):
what's crazy. So the economists noted that China is at
about a hundred twenty vehicles per a thousand people, which
is around the level of America and the nineteen twenties.
So if you think about that figure, it's inevitable that's
going to grow significantly in and with that, the demand
for oil is definitely going to increase as well. But
despite that, they still haven't cracked the top ten in
(11:40):
oil usage still. I mean, oil provided about of China's
energy in two thousand fifteen. All right, well, let's briefly
talk about natural gas and nuclear and neither of them
are currently a significant percentage of China's energy usage. And
then we'll talk about China's role in the green revolution. Definitely,
So China actually produces less energy from natural gas than
(12:00):
it does from renewable sources. But we should note that
the US is both the largest producer and the largest
user of natural gas in the world. Okay, so what
about nuclear I mean, the the US is the biggest
producer there too, right, Definitely, so the US is the
biggest producer by a pretty wide margin. It's nearly twice
as much the next biggest, and that would be France.
But it is interesting way when you look at France,
(12:21):
like how they use it. They produce a whopping seventy
eight percent of its electricity from nuclear power. Yeah, and
China produces about three percent of its power from nuclear
But China appears to be investing more than pretty much
everyone else in the space. So just last year they
brought on five new reactors, which is the most they've
ever brought on in a year, and they're almost a
(12:42):
couple dozen more being built right now. In fact, China
accounted for pretty much all of the global nuclear power
increase in two thousand sixteen. That's huge. All right. Well, well,
I know we're going to take a break for a
quiz in a minute, but before we do, I feel
like I can actually hear some of our listeners screaming
at their phones or speakers and saying, you know, why
did you put nuclear in the no on renewable sources
of energy? Because nuclear will be very good for air quality,
(13:03):
and I feel like we need to address that really quickly. Yeah. So,
there's this ongoing debate of where to classify nuclear energy,
and part of the debate just has to do with
how exactly you define renewable energy. Yeah, that's right. And technically,
renewable energy is a form that's capable of regenerating or
replenishing itself indefinitely. So we're typically talking hydro solar, wind, geothermal, biomass.
(13:27):
But you know, nuclear energy, on the other hand, generally
requires uranium for the fission process, and that's where the
heat is generated. Then the nuclear plants convert this heat
into the electricity using steam. So according to that definition,
uranium is this finite resource. Yeah, but those in support
of classifying it as a renewable resource, they point out
that one of the main points of focusing on renewable
(13:48):
resources is to create cleaner power, and that nuclear power
provides this low carbon emission option, so they argue that
focus shouldn't be on whether the resources technically finite so
much as whether it reduces carbon emissions. But many opponents
are actually not pointing to its status as of finite
resources their main objection. I mean, many of them feel
(14:09):
that the harmful nuclear waste that's produced in the process
of creating nuclear energy, that's what's problematic and allowing it
to be classified as renewable. But either way, it's definitely
a much cleaner source than coal when it comes to
carbon emissions, and this is something China appears to be
taking pretty seriously. Well, now that we've got out of
our system, why don't we take a quick break for
a quiz. So I want to be honest about something.
(14:41):
So our guest today, Um certainly has many international connections,
and that might have been part of the excuse for
bringing on the show today, but I actually want to
admit that the real reason that she's on is she's
the first person who's written in with the fun fact
that her older brother is a competitive curler in the
state of North Dakota. Have you have you ever met
(15:02):
anyone who's a curler in the state of North Dakota Ango, No,
I haven't. So that's that's that's a big bonus here.
But Jordan Terry, welcome to Part Time Genius. Thanks for
having me guys. So, Jordan, where are you joining us
from today? I am in Denver, Colorado. Wonderful. I love Denver. Well,
we'll tell us a little bit of what you do there.
Um So, I'm in Denver because I'm studying to get
my massive degree in global finance. Um So, we do
(15:25):
study a lot about trade and specifically China for sure.
Um But I am also working full time remotely right
now UM as an academic director for an intercultural institute
that has locations all over the world. Um So, I
work in terms of managing teachers and supporting academic departments
(15:49):
at UM several institutes that have academic programs for locals,
and we work in a lot of areas that have
like development needs so that we can receive international students
who want to study abroad and also do some volunteering
abroad as well. I think that's super cool, that's wonderful.
I do have to ask though, when you share the
(16:10):
fact about your brother being a competitive curler, is that
true or were you really just using that to try
to get on the show. It is true. He's my
younger brother actually, um. And so he is a junior
at North Dakota State University and he decided to go
there because he'd be able to continue curling. Um. And
we're actually hoping for Bago for the Winter Olympics for
(16:33):
him and his teammates. So our fingers are crossed. That's amazing.
I actually saw on TV last night, I think the
US curling team was playing the Scottish curling team, which
is is just amazing that that's a televised event. But uh,
I also really love that you come from this family
of athletes, right. Your dad was in the Junior Olympics
as a skier. But but you've read Harry Potter every
(16:55):
book at least two dozen times? Is that true? That
is true. I'm not as huge a fan of the movies.
I have seen them all multiple times, um, But I
grew up with Harry Potter. I got the first and
second books right after they came out, and so in
the anticipation every year of waiting for the next book
to come out. I would reread them all over and
over again. I say, the first three or four I've
(17:18):
read even more than that, and then the last few,
like I do an annual reread of the whole series.
And that's wonderful. It's a true athlete, just like the
rest of the family. That's uh, that's amazing. Alright. Well,
as you know, today's episode is asking the question about
whether China will become a green superpower, and so we're
focused on several alternative energies in this in this episode.
(17:41):
But Mango, what what quiz are we putting Jordan to
the test with today? It's called the Alternative Alternative Energy Quiz?
All right, the Alternative Alternative Energy Quiz. We've got five
true or false questions for you. Are you ready Jordan's
I guess? Okay, here we go. Question number one. In Rotterdam,
there's a sustained bill dance club called Club What where
(18:02):
the electricity for the lights and speakers is generated by
footsteps from ravers feet. Is this true or false? That
has to be true? Yeah, it is. And the club
also features a tapwater bar and toilets that are flushed
with rainwater. Wow, alright, She's one for one. Question number two.
In two thousand eleven, two artists designed a line of
(18:24):
carnivorous furniture based on venus fly traps. Their digital clock
catches insects and can be powered for twelve days on
eight dead flies. Is this true or false? That is
so ridiculous. I could imagine Mango writing that fact, but oh,
it's actually true. They also have a lamp powered on
(18:47):
insects and a table that feeds on mice and has
lights on under it. It's crazy. I have to be
honest with you, Jordan. I I felt for that one
as well. As soon as I read that, I was like, Oh,
that's a total Mango lie. That is that's too good
to be through. Alright, one one out of two. The
question number three, The Army has developed a line of
radios and phones that run on sugar cubes instead of
(19:10):
batteries using Splendor. However, will jam up the circuits? True?
Or faults that? Yeah? You're right, all right. Question number four.
Iceland runs a deep drilling project that's been drilling three
miles into the ground to harness energy from super hot magma.
True or faults? Um? I don't know. Iceland is a
(19:33):
pretty I think Iceland is a pretty sustainable place and
lots of drilling doesn't really line up, But that does
sound like something that could be possible, so true. Yeah,
you're right. I mean Iceland uses a number of these
geo thermal wells, but this one should actually be able
to supply fifty homes with natural energy. Alright, that's awesome.
So Jordan, you're three out of four so far, the
(19:54):
last one for the Big Prize. Here we go, question
number five. In Australia, dairy armors have been tying special
plastic bags two cows backsides to capture their gas, or
rather their methane gas. They then sell the energy back
to the state. Is this true or false? Yeah, you're right.
(20:15):
I mean there are a few scientists working on extracting
methane from cow patties, but actually bagging your cow from
the behind isn't actually a practice. Let's not use that
phrase anymore. I think maybe we should avoid that one.
But all right, question so she Uh so Jordan has
gotten four out of five? Is that right? Mango? Yeah? Absolutely,
(20:36):
and that entitles her to our big prize, which today
is will be pony expressing her an official part time
Genius Certificate of Genius which you can put on her
fridge or frame for her mother, and will also send
her a box of Nerd Candies, which is the official
candy of Part Time Genius. Wow. Well, congratulations, Jordan's best
of luck to you and your job, and best of
(20:57):
luck to your brother and his efforts to to go
of Beijing and the next Olympics. But thank you so
much for joining us today on Part Time Genius. My pleasure. Guys,
thank you. Welcome back to Part Time Genius. So before
(21:21):
the break, we were looking at the breakdown of China's
primary sources of energy. We had coal, oil, nuclear, and
to a lesser extent, natural gas. So let's talk about
the investment in renewable energies and this idea that China
could become the big superpower because of their investment in
green technologies. Yeah. So, as we talked about earlier in
the show, China's ranked up its investment in renewable energy
(21:43):
significantly since two thousand four. They've gone from a total
of three billion dollars in two thousand four to a
hundred and three billion in two thousand fifteen, and now
in two thousand and sixteen that number did fall to
a little below ninety billion, as it did in many
locations across the globe, and that's partly because of these
populist movements that have been taken hold across the globe.
So that's like the ones experience in the UK with
(22:05):
the Independence Party and here in the US with Donald Trump.
But even at this level, we're still talking thirty times
more than what was spending two thousand four. Yeah, it's
a huge increase. And the Chinese government officials announced in
January that the country plans to spend over three hundred
and sixty billion dollars on renewable energy through and they've
stated goals of having fifteen percent of energy consumption being
(22:27):
from renewable sources by and then thirty by, which is crazy.
But this is the part I'm excited to talk about,
and that's why China is making these changes, and that
is what what are their motivations, because there's more involved
than just making a cleaner environment. Yeah it's true, you know,
but the public outcry over deadly urban air pollution has
accelerated this push for clean energy. NPR recently had this
(22:50):
story on how China's middle class has really been pushing
for change, and that the state run paper had a
story on three mothers and how they were dealing with pollution.
One of them kept their kids inside barricaded with multiple
air purifiers running. One moved away from the city entirely
just for her children's health, and the story was heavily circulated.
(23:10):
That is, of course, before the government censored it. There
was also this two thousand fifteen documentary called Under the Dome.
It was watched two hundred million times and praised by
the environmental ministry before that also got pulled by the government.
And the government is clearly aware of the problem, but
it's also very clear that it doesn't want to be
criticized for it either. Well, it's hard to ignore the
(23:32):
I mean, National Geographic estimated that more than one million
people die each year due to air pollution. So that
urban middle classes making noise for a reason. Yeah, but
like you were heading at that, you know, the other
compelling reason is the economic impact. Is Anton lu who's
a professor at Indiana University School of Public and Environmental Affairs,
told National Geographic quote, it's not just pollution that's driving
(23:54):
the determined focus on renewable power. Leaders have made clear
that they view clean energy as a powerful engine for
job creation. It's about setting up for manufacturing dominance. China
sees green energy as an opportunity where it can become
a manufacturing monster, the way it has in clothes and
toys monster. So I know, I'm just stringing quotes here,
which is something my journalism teacher from high school and
(24:16):
mrs where he asked me never to do. But this
is not a good quote from the Financial Times Deputy
Beijing bureau chief and her name's Lucy Hornsby, and this
is what she says. Quote. The Chinese point of view
is that, Okay, everyone's worried about climate change. The western
countries are about to plow a whole lot of money
into trying to stop it happening. We can supply the
(24:36):
manufactured goods, we can supply the wind turbines, we can
supply the solar panels. So the whole paris climate change
action is viewed as a massive export opportunity for China inc. So,
I mean you can see there this investment is definitely
creating jobs. And if you remember that four million coal
miners that we were talking about, well, China already claims
to have three point five million jobs in the clean
(24:59):
energy space, which is far more than any other country,
and the goal is to create ten million jobs in
clean energy and that's part of this move to have
fifteen percent of energy coming from clean energy sources by
ten million, that is huge. Well, I think many would
see this as the real motivator for China's investment. And
we'll talk in a few minutes about why there's some
real skepticism over their desire to actually battle global warming.
(25:22):
But let's get back to where China stands in their
investments in renewable energy. So which one of these do
you want to talk about first? Well, I think we
should talk about hydropower, just because I like saying the
word hydro d So, China produces more hydro electricity than
any other country on Earth, and it's not even close.
Like Canada comes in second, and they only produce about
one third of what China does. And if you want
(25:44):
to illustrate what their investment has done, in nineteen seventy three,
China produced about three percent of the world's hydro electric power,
and the two thousand fifteen it was nearly about a
fifth of their electricity comes from hydro power. That's impressive.
What we should pause for a second though, to note
the country that gets the greatest percentage of its power
from hydro electricity. I was looking this up and it's
(26:04):
actually Norway. So they get about nineties six pc of
their power from hydro Isn't that incredible? It is. I
feel like we should send them a certificate of some kind.
Let's let's work on it, and definitely so check your
mail Norway sometime in the future. Anyway, let's talk about
another one where China has grown its global share tenfold
over the past decade, and that's wind power. So just
(26:27):
a second, I'm going to pull out these stats. So
they went from producing about two percent of the world's
wind power in two thousand five to in two thousand fifteen.
And the US currently produces a slightly larger percentage at
but given the level of investment, you have to imagine
China is going to be passing the US before too long. Well,
when you look at these numbers, I don't think there's
(26:48):
any question about that. And here are some recent numbers
I saw from earlier this year. China produces almost half
of the world's wind turbines Goldwin, which is a Chinese
company is now the largest wind turbine manufacturer in the world,
and five of the top ten wind turbine manufacturers of
the world are in China. I mean, that's just huge.
And according to New York Times, one out of every
(27:08):
three turbines in the world is also located in China. So,
you know, while the US may have produced slightly more
power in recent years from wind, with all the new
wind turbines in China, there's something like nine two thousand
of them, and they have the capacity to generate almost
twice as much wind power as the US. So well,
only three percent of China's power is currently coming from wind,
(27:29):
that that number doesn't fully reflect the impact they're having
on the industry and how that sector is positioned for
significant growth there. Yeah, and one of the issues they're
currently dealing with now is how much of their wind
power is being wasted or curtailed as they might say. So,
what's I mean exactly? Well, curtailman is something that you
hear about when wind turbines or solar panels stopped producing
(27:49):
and this is happening even though they could produce more,
and as a result, you lose that surplus energy and
This often happens if a power grid is overwhelmed and
not really appropriately equipped to handle all the energy coming
into it. Look at the numbers. In two thousand sixteen,
nearly twenty of wind energy was lost because of curtailment.
So that's something the government is really trying to tackle
(28:10):
and they have a plan to get that down to
about five percent by Okay. So before we move on,
we we forgot to name the country that gets the
greatest percentage of its power from wind, and that title
belongs to Spain at about eighteen So great job, Space. Yeah,
you might also get a sort of you will get
a certificate wo stepping up. Okay, all right, so we
(28:31):
just mentioned solar, so why don't we talk about that
one next. And this is another one where even though
they're at about one percent of their electricity generated coming
from solar, they're still playing a huge role in the
future of this industry. Again, just look at the numbers.
So China is now producing two thirds of the world's
solar panels, and in a five year period they've increased
their solar power production tenfold. In two thousand and fifteen,
(28:54):
they produced eighteen percent of the world solar electricity. And
I saw one quote from the New York Times earlier
this year, and that said quote Greenpeace estimates that China
covered the equivalent of one soccer field every hour with
solar panels. Wow, and I know you're a big soccer fans.
I'm sure that quote really hit home with you. Yeah,
but just look at what their investment has done in
(29:16):
this industry. So six of the top ten solar panel
manufacturers are Chinese companies, and two thirds of the world's
solar panels come from China. I mean, they're the ones
responsible for the huge decline in prices, and some estimates
has solar panel pricing falling by as much as over
the past ten years or so. So when you think
about it from an environmental perspective, this investment has been
(29:38):
a good thing. But again it's largely driven by economics
and China wants to own this space. And now there
are more than two and a half million people employed
by the solar power industry there. That's about ten times
as many people employed by that industry in the US.
And China is now home did the largest solar farm
on Earth. And here's how Tom Phillips, he's a reporter
for The Guardian described it, quote, high on the Tibetan Plateau,
(30:02):
a sea of nearly four million deep blue panels flows
towards a spectacular horizon of snow capped mountains, mile after
mile of silicon cells tilting skywards from what was once
a barren, wind swept cattle ranch. The remote seven square
kilometers solar farm tops an ever expanding roll call of
supersized symbols that underlying China's determination to transform itself from
(30:24):
climate villain to green superpower. And that's a cool description.
But actually, just as a side, now, did you hear
about the huge solar panel farm that's actually shaped like
a giant panda bear? I mean I did see that,
but I was curious, what was it actually real? Yeah,
this was pretty widely reported on it and when I
saw the image at first, I wondered the same thing,
and so I turned to the always fascinating Snopes just
(30:46):
to check this out. And it it turns out the
solar panel farm itself is real. But the image that
was all over the place you might have seen on
various websites, that was just an artist rendering and it's
not an actual photo. But the farm is apparently two
d and five acres, and there are plans to build
a hundred more of these panda shaped solar farms across
China and other countries in Asia. Kind of makes you
(31:08):
want to just travel by plane across the country when
all of these are there, just to see them. And
it's totally worth googling just to see the image, even
if it's not an actual photo. Yeah. I mean, it's
fascinating to see how Chinese companies are improving their solar
technology each year, and they're figuring out how to build
these panels cheaper and cheaper, but still maintaining this incredible
level of quality. And they're not just selling to the
(31:28):
US anymore. I mean, we're we're talking countries like Saudi
Arabia and India, whether they need to provide panels for
extremely dry climates, are incredibly humid ones, they're finding ways
to produce them well. And this has all happened because
of this huge government push to get really low interest
rate loans too solar panel manufacturers. And I want to
say it was something like eighteen billion dollars in loans.
(31:48):
The government got state owned banks to give to these companies,
and this was just over a six or seven year period.
So the focus on investing in these kinds of businesses
and becoming a leader in them is also connected to
mine is Belt and Road initiative, and this is the
massive infrastructure investment. China's leading across the historic Silk Road
and that connects Asia to Europe. They've got nearly seventy
(32:10):
countries to join in this effort in some way, and
the plan is for China to invest about I think
it's like a hundred and fifty billion dollars each year
in infrastructure. So we're talking bridges, roads, railways, power plants, pipelines,
things like that. And you know, this is definitely a
very different China than we were used to seeing, you know,
just a couple of decades ago. Well, I mean that
brings us back to the comment earlier about China's real
(32:33):
motivation in this massive investment in green technologies. Yeah, well,
the huge outcry from the urban middle class definitely had
an impact, you know, as as as Beth Gardner noted
in a PC wrote for National Geographic Quote, the results
are sometimes more cosmetic than real. Leaders order temporary factory
closures to clear the air ahead of something. You know,
these high profile events like international summits, they close factories
(32:56):
for weeks in November December just so the city won't
exceed its annual pollut shin limit. That's crazy. But what
seems even more alarming to me is that while coal
plant construction is being limited within Chinese borders, Chinese companies
are actually building coal plants abroad. And when you look
at the new coal projects going online over the next
decade or so, Chinese companies are responsible for about half
(33:17):
of them, and countries like India, Vietnam, Mongolia, Iran, Indonesia.
Some of these are in countries that haven't historically used
coal as an energy source, and they're looking to expand
in places like Pakistan and Egypt, which aren't currently really
cold burning countries. So while we might be celebrating the
significant investment in green technologies in China itself, like these
(33:38):
new plants in the works would increase the world's capacity
to burn coal by over well. And I was looking
at a figure the other day, so two of the
big global banks in China have finance more than forty
billion dollars in overseas coal projects over the past couple
of decades. I think it's pretty clear that China maybe
trying to some extent to clean up their own small
and pollution problem, but I'm not sure how much they
(33:59):
care about the real global situation. Yeah, but I still
feel like there are a couple of reasons to be optimistic.
So first, as we talked about earlier, China's massive investment
has caused the prices of renewable technologies to drop significantly
across the globe, and they'll likely continue to get cheaper.
There's a Chinese company currently constructing a solar farm in
the UAE, and it's going to produce electricity for much
(34:21):
less than it costs US companies to produce both solar
and coal power. Well, and I also saw it's much
faster to build a solar or wind farm than it
is to get a coal fired plan up and running.
I mean, we're we're talking a huge difference. It's something
like six months versus about ten years. I had no
idea it took that long. So another thing is that
China is certainly not alone in implementing new policies to
(34:42):
restrict coal productions. So take India for example, They're trying
to get over half their energy from renewable sources by seven,
and that's just incredible. You have to think that worldwide
momentum is just going to continue. Yeah, and it that
is incredible, it's it's also encouraging. Yeah. So there's one
more big reason to be optimistic, and that's the fact
that investors are much more likely to get behind clean
(35:03):
energy projects these days. The World Bank doesn't provide financing
to overseas coal projects and that's, you know, aside from
the rare exception because of extreme circumstances, and many Chinese
banks are falling in line with this practice. So a
lot of analysts think we're just seeing the beginning of
this tremendous acceleration of renewable adoption around the world. Well,
those those definitely seem like reasons to be optimistic. And
(35:25):
but but I do feel like there's maybe one more
reason to be optimistic. Is a fact off time you
bet it is? M all right, well, I'll kick us
off here. So have you heard about America's first completely
solar powered community? Is this seventeen thousand acre town in
(35:48):
South Florida, and it's called Babcock Ranch. It's expected to
begin accepting residents before the end of the year and
The project has taken about a decade or so to
get together, but it's coming soon. And when you're there,
you'll be able to get around by self driving shuttles.
And that's pretty interesting to read about. But you better
hurry because the town's capacity is only fifty thousand. So
I've got a solar power fact too. We talked about
(36:10):
the panda shaped solar panel farm, but there's a hundred
square mile floating solar farm in the Anui province. I mean,
like in the air, floating and no, I mean it's
in water. Their waveproof solar panels, and and they're floating
on a lake that formed, oddly enough after the collapse
of a network of coal mines. It's the world's largest
floating solar project, and it generates enough power to provide
(36:32):
electricity to a significant portion of a city nearby. I
mean the government plans to expand the system to about
a dozen other locations, which would then generate the power
equivalent of a commercial nuclear reactor. Did you know that
part of the reason people are speaking up in China
about the environment is because of religion. According to the
New York Times, hundreds of millions of people in China
have turned to Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam recently, and
(36:54):
apparently as concepts like karma and sin have come to
the forefront, the public has paid more attention to their
impact on the environment and the world. People have also
used their religions as a reason to speak up. That's
really fascinating. So in two thousand tend the Wall Street
Journal report on a scientist at Berkeley who determined how
to trace pollutents back to areas of origin. And this
is what she found. Apparently twenty nine percent of the
(37:16):
pollution in the East Bay traced back to China. I mean,
the article ended on this smart point though quote. The
question now is how much of that twenty nine percent
can be attributed to San Francisco's penchant for China made
iPhones and iPads. All Right, So we talked earlier about
the significant growth of the auto market in China, and
China is also the leader in electric vehicle sales, with
nearly half of all electric vehicles sold in two thousand
(37:39):
sixteen being in China. Well, I know that's impressive, but
I think I've got an even more staggering figure, and
that's that there are now two hundred million electric bikes
in China, which is way more than the six electric
cars and three electric buses there. I mean, they're a
great option for those who can afford cars but are
looking for an easier way to commute. Plus is their
(38:00):
mission free. Two hundred million of these things? All right, Well,
I have to admit, a mag you've definitely one up
to me here, so I'm going to give you the
Fact Off Trophy today. Congratulations, excellent, and I'm never giving
it back. All right, all right, hey, guys, thanks so
much for listening. Don't forget we love hearing from you.
Call us any time on Fact hot Line. That's one
(38:20):
eight four four pt Genius or email us at part
Time Genius at how stuff Works dot com. A big
thanks to Jocelyn Sears for her excellent research on this episode.
See you next time. Thanks again for listening. Part Time
(38:44):
Genius is a production of How Stuff Works and wouldn't
be possible without several brilliant people who do the important
things we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan McNeil does
the editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme song and
does the mixy mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland does the
exact producer thing. Gay Bluesiers lead researcher with support from
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(39:05):
and Eves. Jeff Cook gets the show to your ears.
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