June 7, 2017 • 39 mins
The idea of freezing yourself for the future feels silly. But if Ben Franklin, Ted Williams and a wood frog all believe in it, should we give it a second look? Here’s how it could revolutionize medicine. Featuring Streeter Seidell.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Guess what, mengo. So that will So I read this
incredible story in a book called Shocked. In year old
woman goes skiing in Norway and she has this awful accent. Man,
this doesn't sound good and that's the end of the story.
So it gets better. So she rolls down this massive
slope into this frozen stream and she's under the ice. Well,
(00:20):
basically her skis saver from going fully in, but she
is under so when the ski patrol finds her, it
seems hopeless. She has no pulse, no signs of life.
She's insanely cold. Her body temperature is something like fifty
seven degrees. So at the hospital she's declared dead. But
for some reason, and it isn't clear why, but they
hook her up to a bypass machine which pumps her
heart and her lungs, and a few hours later her
(00:43):
heart flutters like it actually starts up again. Then in
just over a week she comes out of her coma
and eventually makes this startling recovery. I know, it's miraculous, right.
The press calls her Ice Woman, and while doctors and
scientists get really excited about her story, there's one group
that takes even more joy in her recovery. The cry
and I love the crying. Yeah, that's the tiny subculture
(01:06):
of people who have been laughed at for decades, you know,
a group of people who believe that freezing your body
for a few hundred years is going to be the
key to living forever. And that's what we're exploring in
today's Part Time Genius. Hey there podcast and listen is
(01:35):
welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as
always I'm joined by my good friend Manguesh how Ticketer
hey Man. Today we're talking cryonics, this notion of freezing
your body with the hope of thawing it out later
so you can extend your life. So we'll be diving
into the science of this bizarre field. We'll look into
how many people have actually signed up for already stored
in cryonics facilities around the world, and how movies usually
(01:57):
get it wrong. But as always, will have our Part
Time Genius quiz with two listeners. Who do we have
this week? Mango, We've got board game inventors, not only
board game inventors, but these are like big time, are awesome.
I'm decided to have them, so we'll talk to them
in a bid, and I can't wait to put another
guy to the test. One of our favorite funny people
SNL writer Streeter side L. That's right, who will test
(02:19):
with another frozen related quiz? Is that right? Uh? Huh okay,
good deal and lots of fun stuff to get too,
So let's dive in now. I've got to tell you, Mango,
this whole cryonics thing makes zero sense to me. I mean,
I can get behind it in fiction, but in the
real world, yeah, like it makes for a great TV
and movies Captain America or like a doctor Evil scheme,
But personally, I am so uninterested in putting my body
(02:41):
on ice. And just to be clear, cryonics and this
hope of living forever is separate from cryogenics, which is
the study of cold temperatures and their effects on materials.
But let's get back to this obsession with living forever.
I have no interest in being a hundred fifty years
old or however old the founders of Google and all
these super rich billionaires want to be. Doesn't it make
more sense just to try to extend your life in
(03:03):
the present than try to freeze yourself for the future.
So well, first off, I didn't realize this until we
dug into the topic. But it's actually illegal to freeze
yourself alive. Like I always assume these rich people who
had cancer or whatever, we're freezing themselves before they passed away,
you know, so that they could be defrosted when a
cure comes around. But that's not the case. Everyone who's
frozen in a cryogenic facility is dead, like dead dead dead,
(03:27):
really dead, or to use the term they use in
the industry, deanimated. So all these dead people are actually
waiting to be reanimated like zombies, which feels like a
tall order. And in addition, they're hoping to be cured
of whatever disease killed them. I mean, that's so optimistic. Well,
I mean even the weirder part in my mind, as
you either get your whole body frozen or you could
(03:48):
go budget and just do your head. It's just a
really strange decision to have to make, which is what
Ted Williams did. The theory is that the head is
the only important part and the rest of your body
is completely replaceable. And while that sounds ludicrous, what's weird
is the science kind of backs this. I mean, the
truth is head transplants have a surprisingly long history. Back
in nineteen seventies, scientists at Case Western transplanted a rhesus
(04:11):
monkey's head onto another monkey's body. This was almost fifty
years ago, and while this Frankenstein monkey couldn't walk around
or move from the neck down, mainly because the scientists
didn't have the technology to connect the spinal cord to
the brain, they did manage to get the blood flow
between the neck and the head so it could smell
and see and even taste. Yeah, the head retained all
(04:32):
of those functions. The monkey only lived a few days.
But remember we're talking about nineteen seventy and all of that.
Science has improved dramatically since then. Like in Japan, they've
grafted the head of a mouse onto another healthy mouse's body,
which created this two head monstrosity, but also showed that
the body could accept the new head. And we know
scientists have severed the spinal cords of mice to make
(04:52):
them paralyzed, then repaired their spines, allowing them to walk again.
Which once you've mastered repairing a spine and grafting a
head on to its body, well, human head transplants don't
feel that far away. That's umbly right. You know what
else is funny that I never thought about and sort
of backs up your point is let's say you're into
cryonics and you go for the whole body options, the
(05:13):
facility will actually store you upside down in their tanks
of chemicals like you're hanging out bat style, because they
want to protect your head that way, if the facility
loses power and your body starts to get accidentally thought,
they want to make sure your noggin is the last
bit affected. I kind of like that there's this option
of the whole body versus just the head. I mean,
it really does seem like a super stressful if you're
(05:35):
going to invest in us. But your point about storing
those bodies. If you're watching a science fiction movie and
people are getting frozen stored upright, you can tell the
writers haven't done their research. Yeah, I mean in movies
and shows, people are always stored up right, and that's
completely bunk. But back to what you were saying about
head transplants, Like, the science of cryonics is actually amazing,
whatever you think about the realistic nous of thawing out
(05:58):
all these rich people two hundred years from now and
giving them a second shot at life, which, let me
be clear, I do not believe will happen. The actual
research that's come out is not only fascinating, but it's
really important. And before we get to that, I want
to finish this thought, and that's at the freezing part
of cryonics feels like an outdated idea to me. Sure
I see that. I mean, the whole notion came up
(06:19):
around the time of refrigeration and innovation of frozen food,
so it feels like a rich person solution for the
forties or fifties, Like, if we can reheat a bag
of frozen feet, why can't we do that with humans? Yeah,
but today the question is why freeze yourself versus just
trying to extend your life. And this is a weird tangent,
but my great grandmother lived to be a hundred three.
(06:39):
She was born in one and that's two years before
the Right Brothers took flight. And what she lived through
is insane, like world wars and moon landing sliced bread.
She was older than slice impressive, and she lived all
the way through seven police academies and a couple of
rush hours even more impressive. Yeah, so you know, that's
a really full life. But she wanted to stay alive
(07:00):
for an extra year because I don't know the new
season of Sherlock was coming out, or something more important,
like her great granddaughter was getting married. Like I understand
this very human desire to want a one year extension
or two year extension or life for something you've been
waiting for. But the idea of dying, then freezing yourself,
then waiting two years in the hopes of a cure,
(07:23):
and then essentially hoping to be turned into a zombie
to live longer. I don't think you should be a
spokesperson for the crown of society, by the way, I won't.
And in addition to how creepy and unrealistic that all
feels to me, I honestly don't think I could psychologically
handle it. Like you know, um Japanese tourist struggle with
Paris syndrome, which is that psychological shock when a trip
(07:44):
to Paris doesn't live up to your romantic expectations. The
Japanese embassy actually runs the twenty four hour hotline to
help citizens deal with it. If you think about that's
the problem of like people from one modern culture visiting
another modern culture. So imagine a person from the eighteen
hundreds waking up today, Like, isn't all this change going
to be too jarring? If you think about it. People
(08:05):
don't acknowledge each other as they walk in parks, and
they communicate through watches, and everyone eats tacos with shells
made of doritos, which just feels two locos to puffery heads.
I am sad that your grandmother never got to experience
the doritos locos taco. So a cryon not from two
hundred years ago would have died in eighteen seventeen. And
that's a lot of learning to have to do, catching
(08:26):
up with the technology, civil rights, women's rights, and so
many other things. And I'm sure seeing all that change
has to be thrilling too. And I know you're not
pro cryonics, but if anyone's going to change your mind
about yourself, it's Ben Franklin, right. So he put a
twist on this. He said he didn't want to live forever,
but if he could be suspended in a drunken state
in a giant vat of Madeira, and if he got
(08:47):
to have a few friends come along with him for
a ride, he'd be excited to wake up a hundred
years later and see how the country is progressed. Well,
obviously I'm not gonna argue with Ben Franklin. I mean,
his idea of getting drunk is really good and bringing friends.
What do you proposed was basically a hot tub time
machine colonial edition, I'd see that. But for someone like Franklin,
he actually created a new country. So of course he's
(09:09):
going to be curious. And this is just on the side,
but can you imagine if he was frozen and then
emerged in two thousand seventeen, how pissed he'd be that
he doesn't have a pardon helmet like he was in
so many rooms where it happened, and he dropped zero
bars in the musical. So unfrozen, Ben's not going to
see Hamilton's that they sold out for another five years,
I think at least. But on the other side, I'm
(09:31):
sure he'd be thrilled by how our post office and
fire departments work, or that people still use his inventions.
What team been in, bifocals and swim flippers and that
whole grabber thing people use it their grabinator, Yeah, the
grab house. That one is called the grabinator, but that's
a different episode. So right now, let's get back on
the frozen track with a quiz. Okay, mango, So who
(09:56):
do we have on the line today? So today we've
got two incredible board game in ventors online. We've got
Mary Joe Ruder from l A and Peggy Brown calling
in from Milwaukee. Welcome guys. And it turns out you
guys actually know each other because both of you were
the winners of the Toy Industries Game Inventor of the Year. Right,
(10:18):
so you guys are even friends. I think we are.
We are, yep, we've worked on projects together. It's funny
in the business of game inventors were all competitor were like, um,
the Williams sisters were competitors. But we're also friends. We're
not we're not frend of these like that from from petitors.
(10:38):
That's a good one. That's a pretty small universe. Being
game inventors, I hear though, is not all easy. In fact, Peggy,
I was seeing that that you're suffering from something that
comes with being a game inventor. You mind telling us
about that. It's an old affliction that was named gamekeepers
thumb because Scottish peasant hunters. I think it was used
to take their catch and strap it with a piece
(10:59):
of leather over um, wrapping around their thumb and then
slinging over their shoulder, and it would stretch out that
ligament and break that ligament between their sum and four fingers.
So that's how it got the name gamekeeper thumb. But um,
I've basically rebranded it from cutting out pumping pieces and
game proponents and cards and everything overall the year, the
sacrifices you've made for this, Wow, that's crazy occupational hazard.
(11:23):
Mary Joe, do you suffer from Gamekeeper's thumb? I don't,
and I'm not envious of that at all. I was
reading about you though, that you have a pretty strange
collection of is it ABC books from all of the world?
It is, Yeah, I collect ABC books. I'm a graphic
designer by original trade, and I've always loved Bonds. And
(11:45):
I was trying really hard to learn Danish and I
learned mostly that I'm not competent in foreign languages. But
as I was practicing, I picked up an Apple and
I'm in the kitchen. I'm like, hey, is for Apple?
Wait a minute, No, it's not. It's that crazy E
letters that I don't even know how to pronounce. It
just became a fun thing to do when I went
(12:05):
to any country that I hadn't sent to you before
is to find the ABC book. What's the weirdest picture
that kicks off and off of that book? Yeah? I
think the weirdest one I have is from Thailand, which
has a lot of I'm sure not not authorized pictures
of different people like Snoppy instead of Snoopy happy, and
(12:26):
then I'm I love the opponents. All right, Well, let's
get started with our game today, Mango, what are we
playing today? We're playing a game called the Ice Have
It where every answer includes the word ice. So if
we said this is the product Ben and Jerry decided
to make instead of bagels, you'd say done. All right, Now,
(12:50):
remember you're playing for a big prize here. Whoever wins,
we'll get a handwritten note from us to your mom
or your boss or somebody else important in your life
to sing your praises. So there's a lot at steak here.
So Mary, Joe, you were the more prompt on the
dial ends, so you get to go first. We're gonna
put thirty seconds on the clock and we're gonna see
(13:13):
how many you can answer We've got six questions for you.
Let's see if we can get through all all six
of them. You ready, remember, I'll give you. I'll give
you a clue and you have to tell me the answer.
All right, let's go. Val Kilmer's nickname and top gun
ice Man got it. One half of an Arnold, one
(13:34):
half of an Arnold. Palmer iced tea phrase meaning on
shaky ground. Rapper Robert Van Winkle's hit song from Yes
nineteen seventy seven fourigner hit and we are over time.
We'll see if she can answer this one. I see freezy,
(13:58):
goodness happy. It's probably a little bit hard when the
other contestants going, I know this one. I know this one.
I can't help it. I have a confession to make.
I wrote five thousand of these clues for a game
called Buzzword. So how many did you get? How many
(14:19):
did you get? Right? Mary Joe went four for six.
All right, we're gonna put thirty seconds on the clock again.
Are you ready? Peggy? Ready? Help between each one? Mary Joe,
you may make sure you say I know it. Okay,
That's That's how I'm going to help al Right, Here
we go. The star of the movie Friday movie Friday.
(14:42):
I don't know it all right, solid form of carbon
dioxide ice, the name for the nineteen U. S. Hockey
game against the USSR. I do know that one. I
don't know, like glory on ice or something like. You
got it. We're gonna give that to you. Same work.
Dry ice was the other one. Now, A cheap beer
(15:04):
we drank a lot of in college, made by Miller Brewing.
Tell Us Well Done One More two thousand two animated
movies starring a saber tooth squirrel named Scrat. Well Done.
Let's do this last one together? A reality TV show
on the History Channel involving drivers who operate giant vehicles
across frozen rivers and lakes and remote Arctic territories. Wow,
(15:29):
who was that was? That? Was that Peggy? All right?
So we'll give Peggy five for six and Mary Joe
four for six. That's right. So, Peggy, you're gonna get
a letter to your mom or a friend or a
boss in the mail shortly. And because we don't want
anyone's mailbox to feel lonely, Mary Joe, you can wipe
(15:50):
that sour expression off your face and replace it with
a different sour expression. Because We're going to send you
a package of Bob's Frozen Pickles, the only frozen pickle
pops on the market, so such a great price. We're
all winners here today. Thank you guys, so much. Good
luck to both of you. Um and you can't wait
to see your next inventions. So one of the strangest
(16:21):
parts about cryonics is that it occurs in nature all
the time. Yeah, that's right. There are a few animals
that can freeze and survive. Ice worms do it, painted turtles,
certain scorpions, but the American wood frog is kind of
the all star and that's the one that gets talked about.
Unlike other animals that hibernate by slowing their metabolism down,
the wood frog actually freezes to a halt. It'll stop breathing,
it's heart stops. Like you could actually pick one up
(16:43):
and break off a little legsicle, alexicle, I know it's frozen,
and in places like Alaska, it'll stay in the state
for seven months. Then they'll just wake up and hop
off like no big deal. So scientists were trying to
figure out the trick because freezing is really hard. Cells
human cells contain water almost and when the water solidifies
(17:05):
into ice. It presses down and squeezes the cells and
causes the cellular death for various reasons. You can poke
holes or harm the membrane or whatever, and we just
aren't made for freezing. But the American wood frog is
totally different. It basically pumps itself full of glucose and
creates its own anti freeze well, which is essentially how
croyonots are stored. Right after they pass away, their bodies
(17:26):
are cooled and they're put on the machine to keep
circulating their blood until it can be replaced with an
anti freeze, and then the bodies are packed in sleeping
bags with ice and store and chambers and incredibly low temperatures.
So different facilities have very different processes. But what I'm
kind of fascinated by is that, like the wood frog,
there's been at least one instance of reported human hibernation.
(17:48):
So in the book shop, David Casserett tells this great
story about this thirty five year old Japanese man who
went to this company picnic and a mountainous area and
he gets a little tipsy at the picnic, decides to
walk home, and so you can imagine what happens next
he slips and breaks his pelvis, and this is where
the story gets really strange. He's there for twenty four
(18:10):
days before some hikers find him, just exposed to the
elements without food or water, and his temperature has dropped
to seventy one degrees, but his heart was still beating
slowly and he was breathing, and like the story we
told at the beginning, he made a full recovery. Now
there's some speculation about what actually happened during those twenty
four days, and no one really knows, but it brings
(18:32):
up this idea of what could happen if you put
an injury victim in a suspended state by lowering their
body temperature. Right, And though it sounds so incredibly far fetched,
the benefits like being able to cool a gunshot victim
to keep their body in stasis until they can get
worked on. That could change the way we do medicine,
like it could help soldiers in the battlefield, or give
a surgeon more time to conduct a heart transplant. I
(18:54):
know you were telling me this too, but about that
study on dogs that showed if the animals were cool
to a body temperatures seventy seven degrees, that they can
actually survive circulatory arrest for fifteen minutes and still be revived,
Like previously the most animal could survive without a heartbeat
was three minutes. Yeah, that could make a huge, huge
difference in the survival right. So, but also they're all
(19:14):
these practical applications that have come out of chronics and
getting a better understanding of how to freeze and revive
cells without freezer burn or cellular damage we were talking
about earlier, Like, scientists have been able to freeze a
rabbit's kidney than thought and implanted into a rabbit successfully,
and that technology in itself would be a huge boon
to humans. I read a figure that twelve people die
(19:34):
every day waiting for a kidney transplant, and in two
thousand fourteen, even though there were seventeen thousand kidney transplants
in the US, there were five times as many people
on the waiting list. But the major reason isn't that
we don't have enough kidneys. It's that kidneys can only
be kept alive for thirty hours outside a body to
still be viable. And this totally upends that. Yeah, like
(19:55):
supposedly half of the donated hearts and lungs are thrown
out each year because they don't make it the patients
in time, so that could all change. But all these
things like eggs and sperm and even kidneys are all
relatively simple cell structures to keep on ice, and while
we know human bodies are way more complicated, it's not
entirely convincing that cryonics institutes have the answers yet, at
(20:15):
least so. Our guest today is an incredibly funny guy.
Got his start in the comedy world as the front
page editor of College Humor, where he went on to
become one of the stars of their online skits. Now
Mango and I were lucky enough to get to know
him as a huge history buff, which is part of
(20:37):
why we wanted to have him on today. But in
recent years he spent most of his time as a
writer for Saturday Night Live, writing some of the most
popular sketches of the past couple of years. So Street
your side all, welcome to part time genius. Thanks for
having Yeah, it's good to have you. Actually, I was
curious to uh to hear how you ended up on SNL.
You know, we hear about the stressful auditions that aspiring
(20:59):
cat members have to go through to get on the show.
But how does it work for writers? Well, it's certainly
not as um terrifying, I guess as the cast. You
don't have to like stand there and read your sketches
you've written in front of a quiet room with just
your bosses. But the way it's done is like a packets.
(21:20):
You write a packet, which is, you know, maybe five sketches,
and then you send it in and normally you just
that's the last you hear of it. Um. But every
now and then, if you're lucky, like I was, you
get a response that says, hey, kind of un meet
some people. And then I got called back to talk
(21:43):
um with Lauren, which was terrifying. Well, I wanted to
hear a bit about that, like, you know, when you're
actually there in the hallways, like, how has it been different,
like from your expectations going in. I mean, it's it
really is as cool as I thought it would my
whole life. I've been such a fan of the show,
(22:03):
and I've had friends work there and stuff. So I'd
gone to the show a couple of times and kind
of gotten a glimpse of it and just felt like,
oh my god, this is so great. I wish I
was a part of it. Um and it really I mean,
the office is like I think they're redoing it soon,
but like as of this recording, it's pretty like Dingy
(22:26):
and Beata up and I like it, like I feel
like you like feel the history in the place, just
the amount of hours and chain that people have put
into the necessilly thing. I know, it's got to have
been a weird year obviously, with huge ratings, you know,
some of the highest ratings and years for sn L.
(22:47):
Much of that I'm sure can be attributed to the
Donald Trump bump, I think, and and the popularity of
all the hysterical sketches that are there. But it's been
fun to see you breaking through with a few sketches
that have absolutely nothing to do with what's going on
in politics. Unless there was some sort of hidden message
in the David S. Pumpkins sketch, which I uh, I don't.
(23:10):
I don't think there was. Someone was like, don't you
get it everyone, it's a it's a metaphor for Trump,
the big orange guy who scares everyone, who everyone thinks
it's a joke, and then he scares people like, oh boy,
you've given You're getting us too much credit. Okay, well,
(23:31):
we can't let you go without putting you to the test.
We today's episode is about cryonics, so we thought we'd
do a little true or false game about things that
are frozen. Now, if you've seen the movie Frozen, that
won't help, so that that wouldn't matter. So good. I
just read a book about Claren's Bird's Eye, so I
know a little bit about Frozen. Yeah, just the fact
(23:55):
that there was actually a dude named Bird's Eye, right, Yeah, yeah, Okay,
So here we go. We got four questions for you.
Let's see how you do, and they're all true. Fault
you ready, Okay, I'm ready. Question one. A frozen pizza
brand in Norway is so popular that when it released
a jingle in two thousand seven, it raced up the
(24:18):
charts to number one and was played in nightclubs and
discoes for weeks through or faults. Yeah, I mean, I
guess I'll go true. Yeah, right, story is too fun
for it not to be. I know. The gradiosa pizza brand,
is beloved in the country and multiple jingles have actually
hit number one. As a New Yorker, I just can't
(24:40):
I can't imagine a frozen Norwegian pizza brand, being like,
thinking of that, amazing, but alright. Second question, an anti
freeze gene from the Arctic flounder has been inserted into
strawberries to make them more resistant to cold weather through
or faults. I guess I'll go fault. Oh, this one's
(25:02):
actually true. It's true. Even though they're rumors that the
strawberries taste fishy on the internet, that's actually not true.
They just taste like strawberries. That's good. That's good. The
strawberries taste like strawberries. So all right, he's one out
of two. Question number three. While the first Frozen TV
dinner was a Swanson's Thanksgiving feast made with leftover turkey
(25:24):
and cranberry sauce, a few people know their second attempt
goulash with green beans. True or faults? Oh, man, I
think that might be true. That's actually false. I wanted
to be true. I want it to be true, but
it's actually false. There was a part of the Bird's
Eye book that had we talked about what Swanson like
(25:46):
their old meals that used to do, and there were
definitely some weird ones in there. Yeah the chapter. Yeah,
I almost feel like he knew the quiz we were
going to ask you was like, I better read up
about frozen and dinners. I'm going to read Mr Birds
like a better Yeah. I wish that was true that
(26:07):
I was like, alright, man, go through in this last one.
This is some hardcore history stuff here, so we'll see.
So in seventeen French cavalry charged across the Frozen Bay
at den Helder to capture fourteen Dutch ships. It's the
only time a naval fleet has been defeated by a cavalry.
(26:29):
True or false. I mean, I have no idea, but
I'm I'm gonna get I guess I'm gonna say true. Yeah,
you know it's crazy. The Battle of Texel was part
of the War of the First Coalition between France and
the Dutch, one of the big wars. Yeah yeah, find
(26:50):
a book on that. So alright, well, thanks so much,
street Or. You score two out of four, which means
you've won our endless admiration. Now you guys can find
street Or on tour this summer watches gets on SNL
or find him online at street side l dot com
whenever you get a chance. Thanks so much, Streeter, thanks
for having me let's get back to freezing yourself for
(27:24):
the future and whether it's worth putting stock into. So
what do you think, mango, Is it really that crazy
of an idea. So one person that changed my mind
and how is framing this is Marvin Minsky, you know,
the m I T scientists who helped develop artificial intelligence.
Marvin Minsky, of course, the minsker. I was reading this
two thousand ten New Yorker story by Jillapoor and when
she realizes that Minsky intends to freeze himself, she writes
(27:47):
and ask him why, and he sends back these two
logic charts, and one is about God, right, and it
shows I'm kind of paraphrasing here, but if you spend
your life praying and going to church and it turns
out there is no God, that's not this big loss.
So you wasted a little time praying. But on the
other hand, if there does happen to be a God,
major upside, Yeah, you get to live forever. It's this
(28:08):
minimal investment with a pretty big potential return. Yeah. That
basically is Pascal's wager. You know Pascal the famous mathematician
and philosopher, and his argument was essentially that if you're
a moral person, there's very little downside to believing in God.
It's like a low cost insurance policy with a pretty
big payoff, exactly, and and so that's a pretty common belief.
But in addition to that chart, Minsky attached a second
(28:31):
chart with cryonics on it, and it basically said the
same thing, like, if you invest in cryonics and it
doesn't pan out, no big loss. But if it works,
you get to live forever. And basically he viewed a
belief in cryonics to be as rational or as irrational
as believing in God. And for him, it was kind
of a fun side bet, like wouldn't it be delightful
if this work? All right, I can see that. So
(28:53):
let's say someone buys in. How does this work? Then?
I mean, I know in the first iterations, people stuck
their relatives with the so the families and future generations
of the first cryon outs were forced to keep paying
these monthly installments to keep the freezer on. How terrible.
I mean, it feels like the world's biggest guilt trip.
And the family didn't make the payments, or if they
didn't make the payments. This actually happened to quite a
(29:15):
few people they're frozen. Relative was kicked out of the
facilities and just thought and buried. You know, it's so depressing,
But the plants have evolved a little since then. So
first off, there's a scheme where people use their life
insurance policies to pay for the freezing, and the big
companies have all figured this out for you. And now,
of course they're all these competing cryonics companies all over
(29:36):
the world, like Russia has Creo Russ for instance, and
in the US there's the Cryonics Institut in Michigan, which
was founded by Robert Ettinger, the godfather of cryonics. That's
kind of the budget option. Actually you pay around thirty
thousand dollars to get stored there, which is certainly more affordable.
Or you could pay two thousand in a place like
al Core, which is the shiny rival and where Minsky
(29:58):
actually sent his body and Ted Wlliams too. So can
we talk for just a second about how odd it
is that there's so much controversy surrounding the two most
famous people who were supposedly frozen. Whenever you hear someone
talk about chronics, they bring up Walt Disney. He was
not buried, he was cremated. The origin of that myth
is crazy too. Basically, the president of the Chronic Society
(30:19):
in California came out with a statement after Walt Disney
passed away that it was a real shame that Disney
was cremated instead of being frozen, because Disney had been
interested in the idea, and had he been frozen, it
would have been great for the science of cryonics. But instead,
people just heard what they wanted and ran with the rumor.
Like the myth became so popular that Disney's grandkids heard
(30:40):
it at school and they believed it, and his daughter,
you know, their mom was so outraged he released his
press release to confirm Disney's cremation. And then there's Ted Williams,
whose head resides at al Core and he might not
even have wanted it to be frozen. That's kind of
a bummer, you know, It's like your head is just
sitting somewhere and you didn't really want that to be
the case. But it apparently in his will he asked
(31:01):
to be cremated, and his daughter showed the will as proof.
And then William's son came with a scrap of paper
from a trunk that was signed with him as witness
that said Williams actually made a last minute decision that
he wanted to be preserved suspect and alcre and ted
Son moved faster than the daughter did. But the whole
thing is shrouded in controversy, and he's probably the most
(31:22):
famous frozen person or frozen head right right. Well, the
family aspect, in legal aspects can be messy, for sure,
and today lots of people who want to be preserved
will wear these thumb drives around their necks with precise
instructions on how to take care of their dead bodies.
But the most interesting thing to me is that there
are actually new facilities being built, Like this is a
place called Time Ship in Comfort, Texas, which is intended
(31:45):
to hold fifty bodies, and the thought and planning that's
gone into this is remarkable. Like New Scientists did a
cover story on it, and the whole idea was to
create a facility that works with minimal human interaction. So
the architects started scouting and laying out ends way back
in and they actually looked at it from this international perspective.
They were looking for a place that they had thought
(32:07):
would be still politically stable, like a hundred years from now,
looked at Australia and Russia in a few places, and
they ended up in Texas. And then they looked for
places that wouldn't be affected by climate change, so they
picked a precise place and and where there weren't going
to be natural disasters or nuclear threats. And then they
looked for ways that this facility could run without power
(32:27):
from its main source for a number of months. I
know the facility actually has wind turbines on it. I mean,
it's so thoughtful. And beyond that, they've actually made space
to store other genetic information there, like stem cells and
embryos and DNA starter kits. Plus it's got a butterfly farm. Yeah. Sure,
So pretty architecture and butterflies I would imagine would get
(32:48):
people to sign on the dotted line. They're nice perks,
but fifty thousand clients feels ambitious, especially when you consider
the actual numbers. Like I remember in that New Yorker
piece that Eddinger, the father of cryonics, had a really
tough time getting any clients at first. The first person
he froze his mom, his first and second wife for
both clients, but he was so irritated that his dad
(33:09):
and uncle wouldn't buy in, And it sounded like there
were only thirty or forty bodies in this facility. I know,
and jeez, if the only people who wake up with
you after two years, or your mom and your two wives,
it really feels like this missed opportunity. That you didn't
freeze a therapist as well, I'd say, But the numbers
of actually frozen people seem pretty small. From a two
thousand thirteen piece, it sounded like Alcor had a hundred
(33:32):
and fifty people or so on. Nice and about a
thousand people signed up. And you can freeze your pets
as well, so you can have your dog or your
ferret saved for later. But again, part of the hard
part might be that the science of life extension is
catching up with cryonics. I'd really be curious to know
how much it costs to to freeze a pet hamster.
There's this fairly new treatment that's been conducted on mice
(33:52):
where scientists have figured out how to flush the aged
and stress cells out of their systems using this thing
that started out as an anti cancer a drug. It's
called a P two seven, but the treatment is miraculous
scientists have realized that in flushing out the old cells,
not only do the mice have increased stamina and oregon function,
but these balding, patchy looking mice re grow their hair too.
(34:15):
It's crazy. The creatures live thirty five percent longer. That's
not just more life, but good quality life, which gets
into so many ethical questions. Right, there's a whole who
gets to live longer aspect, and what happens when we're
all competing for limited resources? Those are huge questions. Even Inger,
who was pretty pollyanna about all of this, acknowledged that
there would be problems, and his solution was that maybe
(34:37):
humans could live and shift where one group would enjoy
Earth for a few years and hibern aid, and then
another group would on though and takeover with I know.
I mean, we as a species can't even share resources
like water and food, and the idea that we beat
Kumbaya enough to like tag in and tag out of
a freezer seems so unlikely. I'd say, of everything we've
discussed in this episode, getting people to take turns might
(35:00):
actually be the biggest stretch. But speaking of taking turns,
if you're in my favorite part of the show, the
part Time Genius fact. That's the part of the show
where we sneak in all the weird and funny trivia
we couldn't cover. But before we get to that, you know,
one thing we haven't done is hand out a part
time Genius Award. Who do you think the prize should
(35:21):
go to today? I know, in an episode on cryonics,
we should probably give this to the person who discovered
dry ice, or the scientists who are grafting the heads
of one thing onto another thing. But honestly, all this
talk of ice made me crave something cold, so I
want to give it to Frank Epperson. Yeah, he's the
guy who had eleven years old, left a cup of
flavored water with a stick in it out on his
(35:42):
porch overnight and accidentally invented the pops. That's right, Okay,
I'm down for that. Mr Epperson. Your family will be
hearing from us, which sounds like a threat but is
in fact a very great honor. But back to the fact. Off,
I'm going to kick this off with a little fact
about worm memories. Well, first off, the headline and the
story got me excited because I was like, worms have memories.
(36:04):
It wasn't exactly that, but apparently one of the biggest
concerns people have about being frozen and then reanimated is
whether humans will keep their memories as they get warmed up, Like,
is Robert Avinger really going to remember his two wives
and his mom once he gets saw It's a lot
of birthdays and anniversaries and all that to keep straight.
And the answer that came from this worm study is
probably scientists in Arizona took ice worms, trained them to
(36:27):
react to new sense, and then froze them, and then
when they thought them, the worms retained their training, which
is pretty encouraged. I love that you can train worms.
So I was researching how wealthy cryonots deal with wills, right,
and I stumbled into this amazing story of Daisy Singer Alexander,
the heir to the Singer Sewing Machine fortune. Like, she's
so rich and so nutty that one of her like
(36:48):
big hobbies with dropping bottles with messages in them into
bodies of water. I know, And so, uh, that's actually
how she dealt with her will. And in she penned
a note that said, quote, to avoid all confusion, I
leave my entire fortune to the lucky person who finds
this bottle noy I know. And then in this dishwasher
(37:08):
named Jack Rum was on a walk when he found
the bottle, and the executors honored it like Rum received
this eight million dollar inheritance million dollars and all because
he loved lung walks on the beach. Oh my god,
that's really tough to be. All right, Well, here's a
little fact about Tchaikovsky that I love. All this talk
of decapitated heads being stored in freezers for hundreds of
(37:29):
years made me remember that Chaikovsky had a whole bunch
of irrational fears, and one of them was that his
head might roll off at name the moment. So often
when he was conducting an orchestra, he conduct with a
baton in one hand and keep his arm wrapped around
the top of his head so the other hand could
hold his head in place. That's crazy. So this one's
(37:51):
this one's creepy. Henry Ford's hero was Thomas Edison, and
that's not the creepy part. Ford had some strange beliefs,
including that your last breath of air contained your spirit.
So when Edison was dying, Ford actually convinced Edison's son
to capture his death breath in a test two friend,
just in case he could use it to reanimate Thomas
Edison in the future. You can actually see it in
(38:13):
the Ford Museum. Okay, yeah, so that's that's that's pretty weird,
but I've got a good one, all right. So the
day after comedian Jack Benny passed away, his wife had
a single stem rose delivered to her, then the next
day another and she thought it was in poor taste.
I mean, who was sending a recent widow flowers every day?
So she called up the florist, who told her Benny
had it written into his will that a perfect single
(38:35):
rose should be sent to her every day for the
rest of her life. Pretty sweet, right, Yeah, that's really romantic.
I mean unless daisies for her favorite. So I thought
I had you with that singer sewing machine story. But
in the end, I think love always wins. I agree.
That's it for today's show. I'm Ango and I'm Will
and thanks for listening to Part Time James h. Thanks
(39:09):
again for listening to Part Time Genius. Be sure to
subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast. And because we're
a brand new show, if you're feeling extra generous. We'd
love it if you'd give us a rating on Apple Podcast.
Part Time Genius is produced by some of our favorite geniuses.
It's edited by Tristan McNeil, theme song and audio mixing
by Noel Brown. Our executive producer is Jerry Rowland. Our
research team is Gay Bluesier Lucas Adams, Autum Whitefield, Medronto,
(39:31):
Austin Thompson and Meg Robbins. Jason Hooke is our chief cheerleader.
Guess what, mengo. So that will So I read this
incredible story in a book called Shocked. In year old
woman goes skiing in Norway and she has this awful accent. Man,
this doesn't sound good and that's the end of the story.
So it gets better. So she rolls down this massive
slope into this frozen stream and she's under the ice. Well,
(00:20):
basically her skis saver from going fully in, but she
is under so when the ski patrol finds her, it
seems hopeless. She has no pulse, no signs of life.
She's insanely cold. Her body temperature is something like fifty
seven degrees. So at the hospital she's declared dead. But
for some reason, and it isn't clear why, but they
hook her up to a bypass machine which pumps her
heart and her lungs, and a few hours later her
(00:43):
heart flutters like it actually starts up again. Then in
just over a week she comes out of her coma
and eventually makes this startling recovery. I know, it's miraculous, right.
The press calls her Ice Woman, and while doctors and
scientists get really excited about her story, there's one group
that takes even more joy in her recovery. The cry
and I love the crying. Yeah, that's the tiny subculture
(01:06):
of people who have been laughed at for decades, you know,
a group of people who believe that freezing your body
for a few hundred years is going to be the
key to living forever. And that's what we're exploring in
today's Part Time Genius. Hey there podcast and listen is
(01:35):
welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as
always I'm joined by my good friend Manguesh how Ticketer
hey Man. Today we're talking cryonics, this notion of freezing
your body with the hope of thawing it out later
so you can extend your life. So we'll be diving
into the science of this bizarre field. We'll look into
how many people have actually signed up for already stored
in cryonics facilities around the world, and how movies usually
(01:57):
get it wrong. But as always, will have our Part
Time Genius quiz with two listeners. Who do we have
this week? Mango, We've got board game inventors, not only
board game inventors, but these are like big time, are awesome.
I'm decided to have them, so we'll talk to them
in a bid, and I can't wait to put another
guy to the test. One of our favorite funny people
SNL writer Streeter side L. That's right, who will test
(02:19):
with another frozen related quiz? Is that right? Uh? Huh okay,
good deal and lots of fun stuff to get too,
So let's dive in now. I've got to tell you, Mango,
this whole cryonics thing makes zero sense to me. I mean,
I can get behind it in fiction, but in the
real world, yeah, like it makes for a great TV
and movies Captain America or like a doctor Evil scheme,
But personally, I am so uninterested in putting my body
(02:41):
on ice. And just to be clear, cryonics and this
hope of living forever is separate from cryogenics, which is
the study of cold temperatures and their effects on materials.
But let's get back to this obsession with living forever.
I have no interest in being a hundred fifty years
old or however old the founders of Google and all
these super rich billionaires want to be. Doesn't it make
more sense just to try to extend your life in
(03:03):
the present than try to freeze yourself for the future.
So well, first off, I didn't realize this until we
dug into the topic. But it's actually illegal to freeze
yourself alive. Like I always assume these rich people who
had cancer or whatever, we're freezing themselves before they passed away,
you know, so that they could be defrosted when a
cure comes around. But that's not the case. Everyone who's
frozen in a cryogenic facility is dead, like dead dead dead,
(03:27):
really dead, or to use the term they use in
the industry, deanimated. So all these dead people are actually
waiting to be reanimated like zombies, which feels like a
tall order. And in addition, they're hoping to be cured
of whatever disease killed them. I mean, that's so optimistic. Well,
I mean even the weirder part in my mind, as
you either get your whole body frozen or you could
(03:48):
go budget and just do your head. It's just a
really strange decision to have to make, which is what
Ted Williams did. The theory is that the head is
the only important part and the rest of your body
is completely replaceable. And while that sounds ludicrous, what's weird
is the science kind of backs this. I mean, the
truth is head transplants have a surprisingly long history. Back
in nineteen seventies, scientists at Case Western transplanted a rhesus
(04:11):
monkey's head onto another monkey's body. This was almost fifty
years ago, and while this Frankenstein monkey couldn't walk around
or move from the neck down, mainly because the scientists
didn't have the technology to connect the spinal cord to
the brain, they did manage to get the blood flow
between the neck and the head so it could smell
and see and even taste. Yeah, the head retained all
(04:32):
of those functions. The monkey only lived a few days.
But remember we're talking about nineteen seventy and all of that.
Science has improved dramatically since then. Like in Japan, they've
grafted the head of a mouse onto another healthy mouse's body,
which created this two head monstrosity, but also showed that
the body could accept the new head. And we know
scientists have severed the spinal cords of mice to make
(04:52):
them paralyzed, then repaired their spines, allowing them to walk again.
Which once you've mastered repairing a spine and grafting a
head on to its body, well, human head transplants don't
feel that far away. That's umbly right. You know what
else is funny that I never thought about and sort
of backs up your point is let's say you're into
cryonics and you go for the whole body options, the
(05:13):
facility will actually store you upside down in their tanks
of chemicals like you're hanging out bat style, because they
want to protect your head that way, if the facility
loses power and your body starts to get accidentally thought,
they want to make sure your noggin is the last
bit affected. I kind of like that there's this option
of the whole body versus just the head. I mean,
it really does seem like a super stressful if you're
(05:35):
going to invest in us. But your point about storing
those bodies. If you're watching a science fiction movie and
people are getting frozen stored upright, you can tell the
writers haven't done their research. Yeah, I mean in movies
and shows, people are always stored up right, and that's
completely bunk. But back to what you were saying about
head transplants, Like, the science of cryonics is actually amazing,
whatever you think about the realistic nous of thawing out
(05:58):
all these rich people two hundred years from now and
giving them a second shot at life, which, let me
be clear, I do not believe will happen. The actual
research that's come out is not only fascinating, but it's
really important. And before we get to that, I want
to finish this thought, and that's at the freezing part
of cryonics feels like an outdated idea to me. Sure
I see that. I mean, the whole notion came up
(06:19):
around the time of refrigeration and innovation of frozen food,
so it feels like a rich person solution for the
forties or fifties, Like, if we can reheat a bag
of frozen feet, why can't we do that with humans? Yeah,
but today the question is why freeze yourself versus just
trying to extend your life. And this is a weird tangent,
but my great grandmother lived to be a hundred three.
(06:39):
She was born in one and that's two years before
the Right Brothers took flight. And what she lived through
is insane, like world wars and moon landing sliced bread.
She was older than slice impressive, and she lived all
the way through seven police academies and a couple of
rush hours even more impressive. Yeah, so you know, that's
a really full life. But she wanted to stay alive
(07:00):
for an extra year because I don't know the new
season of Sherlock was coming out, or something more important,
like her great granddaughter was getting married. Like I understand
this very human desire to want a one year extension
or two year extension or life for something you've been
waiting for. But the idea of dying, then freezing yourself,
then waiting two years in the hopes of a cure,
(07:23):
and then essentially hoping to be turned into a zombie
to live longer. I don't think you should be a
spokesperson for the crown of society, by the way, I won't.
And in addition to how creepy and unrealistic that all
feels to me, I honestly don't think I could psychologically
handle it. Like you know, um Japanese tourist struggle with
Paris syndrome, which is that psychological shock when a trip
(07:44):
to Paris doesn't live up to your romantic expectations. The
Japanese embassy actually runs the twenty four hour hotline to
help citizens deal with it. If you think about that's
the problem of like people from one modern culture visiting
another modern culture. So imagine a person from the eighteen
hundreds waking up today, Like, isn't all this change going
to be too jarring? If you think about it. People
(08:05):
don't acknowledge each other as they walk in parks, and
they communicate through watches, and everyone eats tacos with shells
made of doritos, which just feels two locos to puffery heads.
I am sad that your grandmother never got to experience
the doritos locos taco. So a cryon not from two
hundred years ago would have died in eighteen seventeen. And
that's a lot of learning to have to do, catching
(08:26):
up with the technology, civil rights, women's rights, and so
many other things. And I'm sure seeing all that change
has to be thrilling too. And I know you're not
pro cryonics, but if anyone's going to change your mind
about yourself, it's Ben Franklin, right. So he put a
twist on this. He said he didn't want to live forever,
but if he could be suspended in a drunken state
in a giant vat of Madeira, and if he got
(08:47):
to have a few friends come along with him for
a ride, he'd be excited to wake up a hundred
years later and see how the country is progressed. Well,
obviously I'm not gonna argue with Ben Franklin. I mean,
his idea of getting drunk is really good and bringing friends.
What do you proposed was basically a hot tub time
machine colonial edition, I'd see that. But for someone like Franklin,
he actually created a new country. So of course he's
(09:09):
going to be curious. And this is just on the side,
but can you imagine if he was frozen and then
emerged in two thousand seventeen, how pissed he'd be that
he doesn't have a pardon helmet like he was in
so many rooms where it happened, and he dropped zero
bars in the musical. So unfrozen, Ben's not going to
see Hamilton's that they sold out for another five years,
I think at least. But on the other side, I'm
(09:31):
sure he'd be thrilled by how our post office and
fire departments work, or that people still use his inventions.
What team been in, bifocals and swim flippers and that
whole grabber thing people use it their grabinator, Yeah, the
grab house. That one is called the grabinator, but that's
a different episode. So right now, let's get back on
the frozen track with a quiz. Okay, mango, So who
(09:56):
do we have on the line today? So today we've
got two incredible board game in ventors online. We've got
Mary Joe Ruder from l A and Peggy Brown calling
in from Milwaukee. Welcome guys. And it turns out you
guys actually know each other because both of you were
the winners of the Toy Industries Game Inventor of the Year. Right,
(10:18):
so you guys are even friends. I think we are.
We are, yep, we've worked on projects together. It's funny
in the business of game inventors were all competitor were like, um,
the Williams sisters were competitors. But we're also friends. We're
not we're not frend of these like that from from petitors.
(10:38):
That's a good one. That's a pretty small universe. Being
game inventors, I hear though, is not all easy. In fact, Peggy,
I was seeing that that you're suffering from something that
comes with being a game inventor. You mind telling us
about that. It's an old affliction that was named gamekeepers
thumb because Scottish peasant hunters. I think it was used
to take their catch and strap it with a piece
(10:59):
of leather over um, wrapping around their thumb and then
slinging over their shoulder, and it would stretch out that
ligament and break that ligament between their sum and four fingers.
So that's how it got the name gamekeeper thumb. But um,
I've basically rebranded it from cutting out pumping pieces and
game proponents and cards and everything overall the year, the
sacrifices you've made for this, Wow, that's crazy occupational hazard.
(11:23):
Mary Joe, do you suffer from Gamekeeper's thumb? I don't,
and I'm not envious of that at all. I was
reading about you though, that you have a pretty strange
collection of is it ABC books from all of the world?
It is, Yeah, I collect ABC books. I'm a graphic
designer by original trade, and I've always loved Bonds. And
(11:45):
I was trying really hard to learn Danish and I
learned mostly that I'm not competent in foreign languages. But
as I was practicing, I picked up an Apple and
I'm in the kitchen. I'm like, hey, is for Apple?
Wait a minute, No, it's not. It's that crazy E
letters that I don't even know how to pronounce. It
just became a fun thing to do when I went
(12:05):
to any country that I hadn't sent to you before
is to find the ABC book. What's the weirdest picture
that kicks off and off of that book? Yeah? I
think the weirdest one I have is from Thailand, which
has a lot of I'm sure not not authorized pictures
of different people like Snoppy instead of Snoopy happy, and
(12:26):
then I'm I love the opponents. All right, Well, let's
get started with our game today, Mango, what are we
playing today? We're playing a game called the Ice Have
It where every answer includes the word ice. So if
we said this is the product Ben and Jerry decided
to make instead of bagels, you'd say done. All right, Now,
(12:50):
remember you're playing for a big prize here. Whoever wins,
we'll get a handwritten note from us to your mom
or your boss or somebody else important in your life
to sing your praises. So there's a lot at steak here.
So Mary, Joe, you were the more prompt on the
dial ends, so you get to go first. We're gonna
put thirty seconds on the clock and we're gonna see
(13:13):
how many you can answer We've got six questions for you.
Let's see if we can get through all all six
of them. You ready, remember, I'll give you. I'll give
you a clue and you have to tell me the answer.
All right, let's go. Val Kilmer's nickname and top gun
ice Man got it. One half of an Arnold, one
(13:34):
half of an Arnold. Palmer iced tea phrase meaning on
shaky ground. Rapper Robert Van Winkle's hit song from Yes
nineteen seventy seven fourigner hit and we are over time.
We'll see if she can answer this one. I see freezy,
(13:58):
goodness happy. It's probably a little bit hard when the
other contestants going, I know this one. I know this one.
I can't help it. I have a confession to make.
I wrote five thousand of these clues for a game
called Buzzword. So how many did you get? How many
(14:19):
did you get? Right? Mary Joe went four for six.
All right, we're gonna put thirty seconds on the clock again.
Are you ready? Peggy? Ready? Help between each one? Mary Joe,
you may make sure you say I know it. Okay,
That's That's how I'm going to help al Right, Here
we go. The star of the movie Friday movie Friday.
(14:42):
I don't know it all right, solid form of carbon
dioxide ice, the name for the nineteen U. S. Hockey
game against the USSR. I do know that one. I
don't know, like glory on ice or something like. You
got it. We're gonna give that to you. Same work.
Dry ice was the other one. Now, A cheap beer
(15:04):
we drank a lot of in college, made by Miller Brewing.
Tell Us Well Done One More two thousand two animated
movies starring a saber tooth squirrel named Scrat. Well Done.
Let's do this last one together? A reality TV show
on the History Channel involving drivers who operate giant vehicles
across frozen rivers and lakes and remote Arctic territories. Wow,
(15:29):
who was that was? That? Was that Peggy? All right?
So we'll give Peggy five for six and Mary Joe
four for six. That's right. So, Peggy, you're gonna get
a letter to your mom or a friend or a
boss in the mail shortly. And because we don't want
anyone's mailbox to feel lonely, Mary Joe, you can wipe
(15:50):
that sour expression off your face and replace it with
a different sour expression. Because We're going to send you
a package of Bob's Frozen Pickles, the only frozen pickle
pops on the market, so such a great price. We're
all winners here today. Thank you guys, so much. Good
luck to both of you. Um and you can't wait
to see your next inventions. So one of the strangest
(16:21):
parts about cryonics is that it occurs in nature all
the time. Yeah, that's right. There are a few animals
that can freeze and survive. Ice worms do it, painted turtles,
certain scorpions, but the American wood frog is kind of
the all star and that's the one that gets talked about.
Unlike other animals that hibernate by slowing their metabolism down,
the wood frog actually freezes to a halt. It'll stop breathing,
it's heart stops. Like you could actually pick one up
(16:43):
and break off a little legsicle, alexicle, I know it's frozen,
and in places like Alaska, it'll stay in the state
for seven months. Then they'll just wake up and hop
off like no big deal. So scientists were trying to
figure out the trick because freezing is really hard. Cells
human cells contain water almost and when the water solidifies
(17:05):
into ice. It presses down and squeezes the cells and
causes the cellular death for various reasons. You can poke
holes or harm the membrane or whatever, and we just
aren't made for freezing. But the American wood frog is
totally different. It basically pumps itself full of glucose and
creates its own anti freeze well, which is essentially how
croyonots are stored. Right after they pass away, their bodies
(17:26):
are cooled and they're put on the machine to keep
circulating their blood until it can be replaced with an
anti freeze, and then the bodies are packed in sleeping
bags with ice and store and chambers and incredibly low temperatures.
So different facilities have very different processes. But what I'm
kind of fascinated by is that, like the wood frog,
there's been at least one instance of reported human hibernation.
(17:48):
So in the book shop, David Casserett tells this great
story about this thirty five year old Japanese man who
went to this company picnic and a mountainous area and
he gets a little tipsy at the picnic, decides to
walk home, and so you can imagine what happens next
he slips and breaks his pelvis, and this is where
the story gets really strange. He's there for twenty four
(18:10):
days before some hikers find him, just exposed to the
elements without food or water, and his temperature has dropped
to seventy one degrees, but his heart was still beating
slowly and he was breathing, and like the story we
told at the beginning, he made a full recovery. Now
there's some speculation about what actually happened during those twenty
four days, and no one really knows, but it brings
(18:32):
up this idea of what could happen if you put
an injury victim in a suspended state by lowering their
body temperature. Right, And though it sounds so incredibly far fetched,
the benefits like being able to cool a gunshot victim
to keep their body in stasis until they can get
worked on. That could change the way we do medicine,
like it could help soldiers in the battlefield, or give
a surgeon more time to conduct a heart transplant. I
(18:54):
know you were telling me this too, but about that
study on dogs that showed if the animals were cool
to a body temperatures seventy seven degrees, that they can
actually survive circulatory arrest for fifteen minutes and still be revived,
Like previously the most animal could survive without a heartbeat
was three minutes. Yeah, that could make a huge, huge
difference in the survival right. So, but also they're all
(19:14):
these practical applications that have come out of chronics and
getting a better understanding of how to freeze and revive
cells without freezer burn or cellular damage we were talking
about earlier, Like, scientists have been able to freeze a
rabbit's kidney than thought and implanted into a rabbit successfully,
and that technology in itself would be a huge boon
to humans. I read a figure that twelve people die
(19:34):
every day waiting for a kidney transplant, and in two
thousand fourteen, even though there were seventeen thousand kidney transplants
in the US, there were five times as many people
on the waiting list. But the major reason isn't that
we don't have enough kidneys. It's that kidneys can only
be kept alive for thirty hours outside a body to
still be viable. And this totally upends that. Yeah, like
(19:55):
supposedly half of the donated hearts and lungs are thrown
out each year because they don't make it the patients
in time, so that could all change. But all these
things like eggs and sperm and even kidneys are all
relatively simple cell structures to keep on ice, and while
we know human bodies are way more complicated, it's not
entirely convincing that cryonics institutes have the answers yet, at
(20:15):
least so. Our guest today is an incredibly funny guy.
Got his start in the comedy world as the front
page editor of College Humor, where he went on to
become one of the stars of their online skits. Now
Mango and I were lucky enough to get to know
him as a huge history buff, which is part of
(20:37):
why we wanted to have him on today. But in
recent years he spent most of his time as a
writer for Saturday Night Live, writing some of the most
popular sketches of the past couple of years. So Street
your side all, welcome to part time genius. Thanks for
having Yeah, it's good to have you. Actually, I was
curious to uh to hear how you ended up on SNL.
You know, we hear about the stressful auditions that aspiring
(20:59):
cat members have to go through to get on the show.
But how does it work for writers? Well, it's certainly
not as um terrifying, I guess as the cast. You
don't have to like stand there and read your sketches
you've written in front of a quiet room with just
your bosses. But the way it's done is like a packets.
(21:20):
You write a packet, which is, you know, maybe five sketches,
and then you send it in and normally you just
that's the last you hear of it. Um. But every
now and then, if you're lucky, like I was, you
get a response that says, hey, kind of un meet
some people. And then I got called back to talk
(21:43):
um with Lauren, which was terrifying. Well, I wanted to
hear a bit about that, like, you know, when you're
actually there in the hallways, like, how has it been different,
like from your expectations going in. I mean, it's it
really is as cool as I thought it would my
whole life. I've been such a fan of the show,
(22:03):
and I've had friends work there and stuff. So I'd
gone to the show a couple of times and kind
of gotten a glimpse of it and just felt like,
oh my god, this is so great. I wish I
was a part of it. Um and it really I mean,
the office is like I think they're redoing it soon,
but like as of this recording, it's pretty like Dingy
(22:26):
and Beata up and I like it, like I feel
like you like feel the history in the place, just
the amount of hours and chain that people have put
into the necessilly thing. I know, it's got to have
been a weird year obviously, with huge ratings, you know,
some of the highest ratings and years for sn L.
(22:47):
Much of that I'm sure can be attributed to the
Donald Trump bump, I think, and and the popularity of
all the hysterical sketches that are there. But it's been
fun to see you breaking through with a few sketches
that have absolutely nothing to do with what's going on
in politics. Unless there was some sort of hidden message
in the David S. Pumpkins sketch, which I uh, I don't.
(23:10):
I don't think there was. Someone was like, don't you
get it everyone, it's a it's a metaphor for Trump,
the big orange guy who scares everyone, who everyone thinks
it's a joke, and then he scares people like, oh boy,
you've given You're getting us too much credit. Okay, well,
(23:31):
we can't let you go without putting you to the test.
We today's episode is about cryonics, so we thought we'd
do a little true or false game about things that
are frozen. Now, if you've seen the movie Frozen, that
won't help, so that that wouldn't matter. So good. I
just read a book about Claren's Bird's Eye, so I
know a little bit about Frozen. Yeah, just the fact
(23:55):
that there was actually a dude named Bird's Eye, right, Yeah, yeah, Okay,
So here we go. We got four questions for you.
Let's see how you do, and they're all true. Fault
you ready, Okay, I'm ready. Question one. A frozen pizza
brand in Norway is so popular that when it released
a jingle in two thousand seven, it raced up the
(24:18):
charts to number one and was played in nightclubs and
discoes for weeks through or faults. Yeah, I mean, I
guess I'll go true. Yeah, right, story is too fun
for it not to be. I know. The gradiosa pizza brand,
is beloved in the country and multiple jingles have actually
hit number one. As a New Yorker, I just can't
(24:40):
I can't imagine a frozen Norwegian pizza brand, being like,
thinking of that, amazing, but alright. Second question, an anti
freeze gene from the Arctic flounder has been inserted into
strawberries to make them more resistant to cold weather through
or faults. I guess I'll go fault. Oh, this one's
(25:02):
actually true. It's true. Even though they're rumors that the
strawberries taste fishy on the internet, that's actually not true.
They just taste like strawberries. That's good. That's good. The
strawberries taste like strawberries. So all right, he's one out
of two. Question number three. While the first Frozen TV
dinner was a Swanson's Thanksgiving feast made with leftover turkey
(25:24):
and cranberry sauce, a few people know their second attempt
goulash with green beans. True or faults? Oh, man, I
think that might be true. That's actually false. I wanted
to be true. I want it to be true, but
it's actually false. There was a part of the Bird's
Eye book that had we talked about what Swanson like
(25:46):
their old meals that used to do, and there were
definitely some weird ones in there. Yeah the chapter. Yeah,
I almost feel like he knew the quiz we were
going to ask you was like, I better read up
about frozen and dinners. I'm going to read Mr Birds
like a better Yeah. I wish that was true that
(26:07):
I was like, alright, man, go through in this last one.
This is some hardcore history stuff here, so we'll see.
So in seventeen French cavalry charged across the Frozen Bay
at den Helder to capture fourteen Dutch ships. It's the
only time a naval fleet has been defeated by a cavalry.
(26:29):
True or false. I mean, I have no idea, but
I'm I'm gonna get I guess I'm gonna say true. Yeah,
you know it's crazy. The Battle of Texel was part
of the War of the First Coalition between France and
the Dutch, one of the big wars. Yeah yeah, find
(26:50):
a book on that. So alright, well, thanks so much,
street Or. You score two out of four, which means
you've won our endless admiration. Now you guys can find
street Or on tour this summer watches gets on SNL
or find him online at street side l dot com
whenever you get a chance. Thanks so much, Streeter, thanks
for having me let's get back to freezing yourself for
(27:24):
the future and whether it's worth putting stock into. So
what do you think, mango, Is it really that crazy
of an idea. So one person that changed my mind
and how is framing this is Marvin Minsky, you know,
the m I T scientists who helped develop artificial intelligence.
Marvin Minsky, of course, the minsker. I was reading this
two thousand ten New Yorker story by Jillapoor and when
she realizes that Minsky intends to freeze himself, she writes
(27:47):
and ask him why, and he sends back these two
logic charts, and one is about God, right, and it
shows I'm kind of paraphrasing here, but if you spend
your life praying and going to church and it turns
out there is no God, that's not this big loss.
So you wasted a little time praying. But on the
other hand, if there does happen to be a God,
major upside, Yeah, you get to live forever. It's this
(28:08):
minimal investment with a pretty big potential return. Yeah. That
basically is Pascal's wager. You know Pascal the famous mathematician
and philosopher, and his argument was essentially that if you're
a moral person, there's very little downside to believing in God.
It's like a low cost insurance policy with a pretty
big payoff, exactly, and and so that's a pretty common belief.
But in addition to that chart, Minsky attached a second
(28:31):
chart with cryonics on it, and it basically said the
same thing, like, if you invest in cryonics and it
doesn't pan out, no big loss. But if it works,
you get to live forever. And basically he viewed a
belief in cryonics to be as rational or as irrational
as believing in God. And for him, it was kind
of a fun side bet, like wouldn't it be delightful
if this work? All right, I can see that. So
(28:53):
let's say someone buys in. How does this work? Then?
I mean, I know in the first iterations, people stuck
their relatives with the so the families and future generations
of the first cryon outs were forced to keep paying
these monthly installments to keep the freezer on. How terrible.
I mean, it feels like the world's biggest guilt trip.
And the family didn't make the payments, or if they
didn't make the payments. This actually happened to quite a
(29:15):
few people they're frozen. Relative was kicked out of the
facilities and just thought and buried. You know, it's so depressing,
But the plants have evolved a little since then. So
first off, there's a scheme where people use their life
insurance policies to pay for the freezing, and the big
companies have all figured this out for you. And now,
of course they're all these competing cryonics companies all over
(29:36):
the world, like Russia has Creo Russ for instance, and
in the US there's the Cryonics Institut in Michigan, which
was founded by Robert Ettinger, the godfather of cryonics. That's
kind of the budget option. Actually you pay around thirty
thousand dollars to get stored there, which is certainly more affordable.
Or you could pay two thousand in a place like
al Core, which is the shiny rival and where Minsky
(29:58):
actually sent his body and Ted Wlliams too. So can
we talk for just a second about how odd it
is that there's so much controversy surrounding the two most
famous people who were supposedly frozen. Whenever you hear someone
talk about chronics, they bring up Walt Disney. He was
not buried, he was cremated. The origin of that myth
is crazy too. Basically, the president of the Chronic Society
(30:19):
in California came out with a statement after Walt Disney
passed away that it was a real shame that Disney
was cremated instead of being frozen, because Disney had been
interested in the idea, and had he been frozen, it
would have been great for the science of cryonics. But instead,
people just heard what they wanted and ran with the rumor.
Like the myth became so popular that Disney's grandkids heard
(30:40):
it at school and they believed it, and his daughter,
you know, their mom was so outraged he released his
press release to confirm Disney's cremation. And then there's Ted Williams,
whose head resides at al Core and he might not
even have wanted it to be frozen. That's kind of
a bummer, you know, It's like your head is just
sitting somewhere and you didn't really want that to be
the case. But it apparently in his will he asked
(31:01):
to be cremated, and his daughter showed the will as proof.
And then William's son came with a scrap of paper
from a trunk that was signed with him as witness
that said Williams actually made a last minute decision that
he wanted to be preserved suspect and alcre and ted
Son moved faster than the daughter did. But the whole
thing is shrouded in controversy, and he's probably the most
(31:22):
famous frozen person or frozen head right right. Well, the
family aspect, in legal aspects can be messy, for sure,
and today lots of people who want to be preserved
will wear these thumb drives around their necks with precise
instructions on how to take care of their dead bodies.
But the most interesting thing to me is that there
are actually new facilities being built, Like this is a
place called Time Ship in Comfort, Texas, which is intended
(31:45):
to hold fifty bodies, and the thought and planning that's
gone into this is remarkable. Like New Scientists did a
cover story on it, and the whole idea was to
create a facility that works with minimal human interaction. So
the architects started scouting and laying out ends way back
in and they actually looked at it from this international perspective.
They were looking for a place that they had thought
(32:07):
would be still politically stable, like a hundred years from now,
looked at Australia and Russia in a few places, and
they ended up in Texas. And then they looked for
places that wouldn't be affected by climate change, so they
picked a precise place and and where there weren't going
to be natural disasters or nuclear threats. And then they
looked for ways that this facility could run without power
(32:27):
from its main source for a number of months. I
know the facility actually has wind turbines on it. I mean,
it's so thoughtful. And beyond that, they've actually made space
to store other genetic information there, like stem cells and
embryos and DNA starter kits. Plus it's got a butterfly farm. Yeah. Sure,
So pretty architecture and butterflies I would imagine would get
(32:48):
people to sign on the dotted line. They're nice perks,
but fifty thousand clients feels ambitious, especially when you consider
the actual numbers. Like I remember in that New Yorker
piece that Eddinger, the father of cryonics, had a really
tough time getting any clients at first. The first person
he froze his mom, his first and second wife for
both clients, but he was so irritated that his dad
(33:09):
and uncle wouldn't buy in, And it sounded like there
were only thirty or forty bodies in this facility. I know,
and jeez, if the only people who wake up with
you after two years, or your mom and your two wives,
it really feels like this missed opportunity. That you didn't
freeze a therapist as well, I'd say, But the numbers
of actually frozen people seem pretty small. From a two
thousand thirteen piece, it sounded like Alcor had a hundred
(33:32):
and fifty people or so on. Nice and about a
thousand people signed up. And you can freeze your pets
as well, so you can have your dog or your
ferret saved for later. But again, part of the hard
part might be that the science of life extension is
catching up with cryonics. I'd really be curious to know
how much it costs to to freeze a pet hamster.
There's this fairly new treatment that's been conducted on mice
(33:52):
where scientists have figured out how to flush the aged
and stress cells out of their systems using this thing
that started out as an anti cancer a drug. It's
called a P two seven, but the treatment is miraculous
scientists have realized that in flushing out the old cells,
not only do the mice have increased stamina and oregon function,
but these balding, patchy looking mice re grow their hair too.
(34:15):
It's crazy. The creatures live thirty five percent longer. That's
not just more life, but good quality life, which gets
into so many ethical questions. Right, there's a whole who
gets to live longer aspect, and what happens when we're
all competing for limited resources? Those are huge questions. Even Inger,
who was pretty pollyanna about all of this, acknowledged that
there would be problems, and his solution was that maybe
(34:37):
humans could live and shift where one group would enjoy
Earth for a few years and hibern aid, and then
another group would on though and takeover with I know.
I mean, we as a species can't even share resources
like water and food, and the idea that we beat
Kumbaya enough to like tag in and tag out of
a freezer seems so unlikely. I'd say, of everything we've
discussed in this episode, getting people to take turns might
(35:00):
actually be the biggest stretch. But speaking of taking turns,
if you're in my favorite part of the show, the
part Time Genius fact. That's the part of the show
where we sneak in all the weird and funny trivia
we couldn't cover. But before we get to that, you know,
one thing we haven't done is hand out a part
time Genius Award. Who do you think the prize should
(35:21):
go to today? I know, in an episode on cryonics,
we should probably give this to the person who discovered
dry ice, or the scientists who are grafting the heads
of one thing onto another thing. But honestly, all this
talk of ice made me crave something cold, so I
want to give it to Frank Epperson. Yeah, he's the
guy who had eleven years old, left a cup of
flavored water with a stick in it out on his
(35:42):
porch overnight and accidentally invented the pops. That's right, Okay,
I'm down for that. Mr Epperson. Your family will be
hearing from us, which sounds like a threat but is
in fact a very great honor. But back to the fact. Off,
I'm going to kick this off with a little fact
about worm memories. Well, first off, the headline and the
story got me excited because I was like, worms have memories.
(36:04):
It wasn't exactly that, but apparently one of the biggest
concerns people have about being frozen and then reanimated is
whether humans will keep their memories as they get warmed up, Like,
is Robert Avinger really going to remember his two wives
and his mom once he gets saw It's a lot
of birthdays and anniversaries and all that to keep straight.
And the answer that came from this worm study is
probably scientists in Arizona took ice worms, trained them to
(36:27):
react to new sense, and then froze them, and then
when they thought them, the worms retained their training, which
is pretty encouraged. I love that you can train worms.
So I was researching how wealthy cryonots deal with wills, right,
and I stumbled into this amazing story of Daisy Singer Alexander,
the heir to the Singer Sewing Machine fortune. Like, she's
so rich and so nutty that one of her like
(36:48):
big hobbies with dropping bottles with messages in them into
bodies of water. I know, And so, uh, that's actually
how she dealt with her will. And in she penned
a note that said, quote, to avoid all confusion, I
leave my entire fortune to the lucky person who finds
this bottle noy I know. And then in this dishwasher
(37:08):
named Jack Rum was on a walk when he found
the bottle, and the executors honored it like Rum received
this eight million dollar inheritance million dollars and all because
he loved lung walks on the beach. Oh my god,
that's really tough to be. All right, Well, here's a
little fact about Tchaikovsky that I love. All this talk
of decapitated heads being stored in freezers for hundreds of
(37:29):
years made me remember that Chaikovsky had a whole bunch
of irrational fears, and one of them was that his
head might roll off at name the moment. So often
when he was conducting an orchestra, he conduct with a
baton in one hand and keep his arm wrapped around
the top of his head so the other hand could
hold his head in place. That's crazy. So this one's
(37:51):
this one's creepy. Henry Ford's hero was Thomas Edison, and
that's not the creepy part. Ford had some strange beliefs,
including that your last breath of air contained your spirit.
So when Edison was dying, Ford actually convinced Edison's son
to capture his death breath in a test two friend,
just in case he could use it to reanimate Thomas
Edison in the future. You can actually see it in
(38:13):
the Ford Museum. Okay, yeah, so that's that's that's pretty weird,
but I've got a good one, all right. So the
day after comedian Jack Benny passed away, his wife had
a single stem rose delivered to her, then the next
day another and she thought it was in poor taste.
I mean, who was sending a recent widow flowers every day?
So she called up the florist, who told her Benny
had it written into his will that a perfect single
(38:35):
rose should be sent to her every day for the
rest of her life. Pretty sweet, right, Yeah, that's really romantic.
I mean unless daisies for her favorite. So I thought
I had you with that singer sewing machine story. But
in the end, I think love always wins. I agree.
That's it for today's show. I'm Ango and I'm Will
and thanks for listening to Part Time James h. Thanks
(39:09):
again for listening to Part Time Genius. Be sure to
subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast. And because we're
a brand new show, if you're feeling extra generous. We'd
love it if you'd give us a rating on Apple Podcast.
Part Time Genius is produced by some of our favorite geniuses.
It's edited by Tristan McNeil, theme song and audio mixing
by Noel Brown. Our executive producer is Jerry Rowland. Our
research team is Gay Bluesier Lucas Adams, Autum Whitefield, Medronto,
(39:31):
Austin Thompson and Meg Robbins. Jason Hooke is our chief cheerleader.
Part-Time Genius News
Hosts And Creators
Will Pearson
Mangesh Hattikudur
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.