May 18, 2018 • 38 mins
The Space Race is on! With Elon Musk, NASA and plenty of other countries all hustling to get to Mars, just how long will it actually us to get there? And how hard will it be to build a space civilization? From sucking oxygen from the soil to 3D printing villages to the Dutch reality TV shows that might finance the whole thing, Will and Mango dive into the many angles of the Mars Mission we should all get excited about.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Guess what mango with that? Well, you remember back in
our episode on Hawaii, we we talked about this year
long simulation by a group of brave scientists and what
they endured on the side of mounta Loa. Right, Yeah,
they were trying to simulate what life might be like
on Mars, that's right. So physicist Christiane Heineke, she wrote
this great piece about the experience in Scientific American and
(00:20):
I'd only read a little bit about it before, so
it was fascinating to read this piece. But the experiment
was to test a bunch of things, Like they obviously
know that a real mission to Mars would be much
more complicated than surviving in a dome on the side
of a volcano, you know, especially when that volcanoes in Hawaii.
As a side note, this is not the volcano that's
been erupting recently. That might have made it a little
(00:41):
bit more of a difficult experiment. But they did want
to see what it would do to people if they
were isolated for a year in a pretty barren environment
and really only able to depend on each other. Yeah.
I mean, there's actually a term for that type of scenario.
It's called ice, which stands for isolated, confined, and extreme.
But the thing that's rucked me was the team they
assembled for this mission was incredible. Yeah, it really makes
(01:04):
you think about the different types of skills you need
if you send a group like this too Mars for
the simulation. They had a pilot and a flight controller
that served as their engineer. There was a physician, an astrobiologist,
a soil scientist. They even had an architect focused on
space habitats. I mean, talk about an interesting job. And
then there was Heineke who was a geophysicist. Yeah, it's
(01:26):
so varied, it's awesome. Well there's a short bit from
her piece that I thought was worth reading, and here's
what she says. She said, cut off from civilization, we
were dependent on ourselves and on each other. We had
to perform any work that needed doing and fix anything
that broke. All we had was the material contained and
the storage unit dubbed the c can. The nearest supermarket
(01:47):
was months away. We received news from Earth electronically with
a twenty minute delay. That's about how long it takes
for signals to travel the maximum distance of two hundred
and forty million miles between the two planets to be honest,
it took weeks for me to realize just what I've
gotten into. Yeah, I mean, it's impossible to imagine what
that would be like, but that hasn't stopped us from
(02:08):
being incredibly curious about the experience. And I'm actually sure
that many of our listeners know there's this new podcast
from Gimlet called The Habitat and it's about this very simulation. Yeah,
and you know, it's just one of many recent projects,
both in fiction and in nonfiction, focused on what this
journey to Mars, or even living on Mars might actually
be like. And it's definitely starting to feel like we
(02:30):
might witness humans landing or living on Mars in our lifetime.
So in today's episode, we thought we'd explore questions like
who will be the first to get to Mars, why
are we so consumed with getting there? And how will
humans survive once we do get there? So let's dive in.
(03:07):
He their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm
Will Pearson and it's always I'm joined by my good
friend man guest Ticketer and on the other side of
the soundproof glass wearing a shirt that reads in Musk,
we trust Mars. Or bust. That's our friend and producer
Tristan McNeil. And you know, I've got to say Tristan
must know a guy, because I'm guessing this is yet
another of his custom printed shirts, right actually, you know,
(03:30):
I've seen that one advertised online. They're just so much
excitement right now about the prospect to go into Mars,
and it does kind of look like Elon Musk might
be the guy to get us there well, and Tristan
is definitely not the only one putting his trust in Musk.
You know, after doing some research for today's show, I've
got to say it's not such a bad bet. You know,
the SpaceX program has made some serious strides towards getting
(03:52):
mankind to the Red Planet within our lifetime, but SpaceX
is hardly the only game in town. I mean, there
are plenty of other companies, not to mention country Eas
that have their eyes set on launching the first man
mission to Mars, and their goal now seems closer than
it ever has before. So with all that excitement in
the air, I thought it'd be fun to kind of
take stock of all these competing Mars missions and hopefully
(04:14):
give us a clearer picture not only of who will
make it to Mars first and when that might actually happen. Really,
why we're also dead set on getting there in the
first place. Yeah, So why don't we start by getting
a little perspective on just how much public interest there
currently isn't going to Mars. So historically there's always been
this uptick and applicants anytime a new milestone starts to
(04:35):
look achievable. So if you think about like nineteen seventy eight,
that's the year the Voyager mission set out on its
tour the Solar System, NASA actually set a record with
eight thousand applicants, and that record stood for nearly forty
years until the agency's most recent call for new hires.
You know, I was actually gonna ask how often NASA
accepts applications, because if I'm not mistaken, it's not a
(04:58):
yearly thing, right not. So, they typically bring on a
new class of astronauts every few years or so, and
the most recent class began applying in late two thousand fifteen,
and the time before that was in late two thousand eleven.
But this most recent crop of applicants was the biggest yet.
More than eighteen thousand people applied to be part of
NASA's new class, and that totally destroys the previous record
(05:20):
by more than ten thousand people, which is pretty crazy.
I mean, there must have been more disappointed applicants than
ever before. And I can't imagine NASA's in need of
tens of thousands of astronauts and you know one time, Yeah,
definitely not. In fact, the newest class consists of just
twelve people. There are five women and seven men, and
even that is like three times the number of people
(05:43):
needed for the four person crew NASA has a mind
for its first Mars mission, So eighteen thousand people, which
is we died down to twelve people and then from
that only four will end up going on the mission.
I mean, it's clearly more than enough interest out there.
But did you get any sense of where all of
this is coming from? And I know, we had the
Matt Damon movie just called The Martian and it was
(06:05):
a big hit, but there's got to be more to
it than that, right, So I know it sounds strange,
but The Martian is actually a great example of a
kind of cross pollination between space flight and pop culture
that's taken place in the last few years and it's
actually no coincidence that the movie premiered just two months
before NASA announced his latest call for astronauts, like the
(06:25):
agency actually consulted a lot for the makers of that movie,
largely because it saw the film as a way to
generate more excitement for a future Mars mission. And if
you took any marketing classes in college, which I think
you might have taken one or two, you'll remember one
of the golden rules of marketing, and that's, you know,
nothing stokes the public interests like the promise of growing
space potatoes fertilized with your own feces. I think it
(06:48):
was like rule number seven marketing one on one. Rule
seven's right. But the Martian isn't the only new recruitment
tool to benefit NASA in recent years, like the one
that's actually helped the most social media. So when NASA
called for new hires back in two thousand eleven, the
Shuttle program had just ended and this mission to Mars
seemed too far off to put much stock in. But
(07:10):
even then, like NASA's crop of applicants that year was
still strong. It was I think around like six thousand total.
But clearly something happened between then in the record setting
response that we saw in two thousand and fifteen. And
so you're saying that really was just social media. Yeah,
I mean I think it played a big role. So
between two thousand eleven and two thousand fifteen, the number
(07:30):
of American adults who used at least one social media
platform grew by fiftent and you know, you can bet
NASA took notice of that growth. So, according to NASA
spokeswoman Stephanie Sheerholtz, she says, uh, we made a concerted
outreach effort that incorporated social media like never before. So
all of a sudden, you have like astronauts tweeting pictures,
(07:52):
you know, from their training sessions. You've got these like
live streamed rocket launches and YouTube videos where astronauts on
the s s are like cutting their nails and showing
you how they take showers. It's pretty amazing. Yeah, And
I know, we also liked watching Chris Hadfield's cover of
Space Oddity, and he obviously did that from space and
where we had him on the show. Such a nice guy.
(08:13):
But in a way, it feels like social media made
astronauts cool again, kind of like they had been in
the early days of the Space program. Yeah, I mean,
the public had never gotten such an intimate and real
time look at the life and work of astronauts before that,
and ultimately it sparked this like new generation of people
who were super passionate. Well, and so now we've covered
a few factors behind the current space boom, I feel
(08:36):
like we should talk about some of the major players
that are hoping to capitalize on this interest. So we've
already mentioned Elon Musk and the space X venture. You know,
they've set this rather lofty goal of sending a manned
rocket to Mars By and whether that actually happens, it's
i'd say it's still pretty much up in the air
at this point. Yeah, I mean, they've been testing the
world's first partially reusable rockets, which could cut launch costs
(08:58):
by as much as thirty then and obviously make the
missions to Marrows much more feasible. But while the tests
have been this huge success, like, there's still a lot
of room for improvement, and it's tough to imagine making
that much progress and just I don't know, five or
six years. Well, you do have to remember that Musk
has a secret weapon for getting to Mars and that's
his so called bf are what he calls the big
(09:19):
eff ng rocket, And this would be this massive three
fifty feet tall rocket and it's propelled by thirty one
smaller methane fueled rockets. Now, once again, the whole system
would be completely reusable. So the idea is that the
b FR would send a hundred people to Mars aboard
a detachable spaceship. Now that you've got the system's rocket booster,
that would just detach and then land back on Earth
(09:41):
and be reused again and again. I mean, when when
we watched that recent test that they did, it was
just amazing to watch them land, and it would be
really cool if they could manage to pull it off.
But I'm curious, like, why does Musk want to go
to Mars so badly? Like what does he know that
we don't Well, I don't know. I was starting to
think about that too, and and more likely than not,
(10:01):
he's just eager for humans to explore more of that
final frontier that we've heard so much about. And I
don't know. You can kind of be the judge though.
Here's here's one of must statements on the importance of
a mission to Mars. He says, you want to wake
up in the morning and think the future is going
to be great. And that's what being a space faring
civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future
and thinking that the future will be better than the past.
(10:23):
And I can't think of anything more exciting than going
out there and being among the stars. History is going
to buy for Kate along two directions. One path as
we stay on Earth forever and eventually there will be
some extinction event. The alternative is to be a space
faring civilization and a multi planet species. So I mean,
it sounds like there are two ideas of play from
(10:44):
us here, Like one is exploration for the sake of exploration, right,
It's like this desire to like see the cosmos and
learn new things. And the other is this idea of
self preservation that, like, you know, if you take a
long enough timeline, something bad is bound to happen on
this planet, so it's in our own best interest to
set up shop on another one sooner rather than later.
(11:07):
That sounds right, and I think there's merit to both
of those ways of thinking. But you know, not all
Mars hopefuls have such clear cut motivations. For instance, you've
heard of Mars one, right, you know it's this private,
nonprofit Dutch. Yeah. Yeah, And so they aimed to colonize
Mars by I think one, And unlike other missions that
we're talking about today, Mars one isn't worried about bringing
(11:30):
space colonists back to their home planet. Mars one would
actually just be this one way trip. I mean, I've
heard about this obviously, and it's super controversial. I remember
reading a study from M I T where scientists analyzed
the proposed plan and they concluded that all the Mars
one astromis would actually be dead within sixty eight days.
Isn't that crazy? I would not consider that a successful
(11:53):
mission if that's what's happened, and all the money that
would be spent for those sixty eight days. But you know,
if you look at their initial proposal was super unrealistic.
I mean, for one thing, the Mars one team isn't
developing its own technology. They're they're really just planning to
use whatever the other aerospace companies come up with. And
they're estimating it would only cost six billion dollars to
send four people to Mars. And I say, only six
(12:15):
billion dollars. That sounds like a ton of money, but
it's really a low number when you consider the Apollo program.
They spent about a hundred and forty billion dollars to
send twelve people to the Moon. Wait, so not only
are they pinning all their hopes on using someone else's tech,
but they're also hoping to score that tech for like
bargain basement deals. That's exactly right. But you know what
(12:37):
else is crazy about this is that, you know, Mars
one hasn't even secured that low ball funding that they're
hoping for. And this is where it really just gets
even nuttier. Apparently the plan is to finance the mission
through a reality TV show and a series of documentaries
that would follow the crew through their training and this is,
you know, all of that training leading up to going
(12:57):
to Mars, And honestly, it just sounds like the worst
plan ever. I mean, I can't see how a show
like that would work, unless, like they were trying to
make the first boy band assembled on Mars, or I
guess send some Jersey housewives to Mars. Like that feels
like a show i'd watch, but you're right, i'd watch that.
But like, what if the show tanks as they're up
(13:19):
there and people just lose interest, Like once that funding
drives up, does the crew just like end up there
on their own? I mean, I guess so, and and
it it turns out that's just one of the many
flaws in the Mars one plan. But but it actually
doesn't stop more than two hundred thousand people from applying
for the privilege to be, as Pacific Standards put it,
(13:39):
among the first humans to die on Mars. I just
thought that was great. I mean, I don't know who
wants that title, but I can imagine how some like
I guess Daredevil astronauts might be really into it. Yeah,
you know, I think about it kind of like it
is with cloning. I mean, if we ever find a
way to bring back the dinosaurs, there's gonna be somebody
that's gonna be the first to get eaten by the dinosaurs,
(14:01):
you know, And I think I'd want my biggest claim
to feign me that I was the first person ever
eaten by a t rex. But yeah, maybe there's a
certain kind of appeal there for something someone wants that.
But I do think we should just like table this
for another time, because I think it'd be fun for
another episode. But right now, let's talk a little bit
about NASA's plan for getting to Mars as well as
some of the other challenges that are definitely gonna crop off.
(14:22):
All right, that sounds like a plan, But first let's
take a quick break. They're listening to Part Time Genius
and we're talking about the who, when, why, and how
of human kinds first mission to Mars. All right, Mango,
(14:45):
So we've covered one promising program and one maybe not
so promising program from the private sector. But now let's
talk about the organization that probably stands the best chance
of making it to Mars first, and that of course
is NASA. Yeah. So NASA's car plan is to get
humans into low Mars orbit by the early twenty thirties,
and then they want to have a crew actually land
(15:06):
on the planet's surface before the end of that decade.
And to make that happen, the agency is hard at work,
like testing this equipment they hope we'll get humans there
and back. I'm sure you're probably wondering what type of
stuff they're gonna use. Like one of the most promising
pieces of hardware that they're working on is called the
Space Launch System SLS. Is this new rocket meant to
propel humans and cargo out of Earth's orbit. So this is,
(15:28):
I guess, kind of like NASA's answer to the to
the big fing rocket, right, yeah, exactly like muss And
and for the crew itself, NASA is testing it's a
Ryan capsule, which is meant to lay the groundwork for
even larger deep space exploration vehicles. It's the kind of
thing that could consumably support a full crew for the
entire one million mile trip. And that's you know, the
(15:49):
distance is to get to Mars, all right, So it
sounds like, no matter how you slice it, we're good,
what fifteen to twenty years away from landing a human
on Mars. And that's all assuming that research doesn't hit
a brick all along the way. But given that timeline,
who do you think is going to get there first?
So NASA obviously has the you know, the best track
record when it comes to space faring, and they've got
(16:11):
like the technical know how, they've got you know, the crew.
But like the biggest potential stumbling block is funding, and
the Space Program's budget ebbs and flows with each administration.
So even if NASA knows what it's doing there's zero
guarantee that the money will be there to carry out
the mission when the time comes. And of course, you know,
NASA is totally aware its status as like a political football,
(16:34):
so that's why the agency has been going all out
on these marketing efforts, which we talked about earlier. Yeah,
and I know those funding concerns are a big part
of why some people consider SpaceX to be the front runner.
And Elon musk pockets might not be as deep as
the governments, but you know, in the past several years,
he's definitely proven himself a lot more willing to put
up the cash for space research than Congress has. But
(16:55):
it is worth keeping in mind that a large chunk
of SpaceX revenue is thanks to its own contracts with NASA,
So if NASA's budget gets slashed, then you know, there's
no guarantee that SpaceX will have the cash needed to
fill that gap. So in a sense, the best chance
of getting to Mars in the next couple of decades
might actually be of SpaceX and NASA were to team
up and and maybe pool those resources. Yeah, I mean,
(17:18):
it would be fascinating to watch if that happens, And
I actually think there's a decent chance it could happen
as we get closer to their planned launch dates. But
you know, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here.
There are still all kinds of problems that need to
be worked out before we can send anyone to Mars,
and that includes challenges both for the journey itself as
well as when we get there. Yeah, I mean speaking
of that, I was actually reading about some of the
(17:40):
physical strains that astronauts have to deal with when when
they're there, and it's not a pretty picture. I mean,
the g forces alone would be insane, so much so
in fact, that some researchers have suggested removing the appendix
and the gall bladder of any of these Mars bound
crew members ahead of time. I mean, just to avoid
the organs rupturing from all the pressure changes. Huh. Well,
(18:01):
I mean you can think about that, which is crazy,
but also the psychological effects of such a long trip,
like the voyage to Mars will take about four or
five months each way. I mean, that's an awful lot
of time to spend in those quarters with you know,
just a handful of people, and that's while moving at
the speeds you were talking about, Um, I even read
this one study that suggested that, like, the prolonged exposure
(18:24):
to cosmic radiation might actually mess with the astronauts brains,
So mess with them how exactly? Yeah, this is based
on research out at University of California, and it was
one of several studies meant to examine the neurological effects
of sending people on long outer space missions. It was
to get an idea of what these cosmic rays might do.
The researchers irradiated a bunch of lab mice with particles
(18:46):
found in space, and the dosage they used was actually
equivalent to what a human might experience on like a
tended thirty day mission. And then the mice underwent a
series of behavioral tests, and as you might expect, the
irradiated mice performed much worse on these tests than the
non irradiated ones. But strangers still, when the scientists actually
dissected the mice two weeks later, they found that the
(19:08):
radiation had effectively prune the mice's brain cells. I mean,
it's crazy. Many of the branches that allow the brain
cells to communicate with one another, We're just straight up gone, Oh,
it's just terrifying. So so would the same thing happen
in a human brain. I mean, that's the thing, right,
there's every reason to think so. And the biggest mystery,
like once you know that, is that we don't know
(19:28):
how these missing brain cells might actually impact the humans behavior,
Like it's doubtful that these cosmic rays would actually prove
life threatening, but they could jeopardize the mission in all
sorts of other ways, Like researchers worried that the prune
brain cells might reduce someone's ability to respond to new
situations and you know, come up with creative solutions for things.
It would obviously be a huge problem when exploring a
(19:51):
different planet. So it's weird because this is the first
I've heard about this, and I know we've obviously sent
plenty of people into space by now. So what about
the astronat aunts who landed on the Moon and came back,
Like why didn't they have brain damage? Or you know
the people that are on the International Space Station and
they're there months at a time. Yeah, it's a really
good question. So I looked into that too. But you know,
(20:12):
the missions to the Moon only lasted a few days,
whereas like the voyage tomorrows would take about a hundred
and fifty days, so we're talking a whole different experience
than level of exposure here. And while it's definitely true
that astronauts has spent that kind of time aboard, the
I S. S Station is actually positioned below the Earth's magnetosphere,
which means that's shielded from I guess most forms of
(20:34):
space radiation. So I'm curious what the solution would actually
be or is it just as simple as like wrapping
the Mars ship and tinfoil or something like that to
help shield it. I mean, I wish it was that easy.
Like the truth is that, like trying to take anything
that's big enough or strong enough to shield and block
that amount of cosmic radiation would actually make the ship
way too heavy to fly. So instead researchers are trying
(20:57):
to figure out a solution for the astronauts themselves. Like
the current hope is that they can find a new
drug that would hopefully block the radiation before it can
reach the brain. Well, and if you think about this
is only the voyage to Mars that we're talking about,
So once the astronauts actually reach the red planet, they
will have a whole new list of problems to, you know,
to kind of figure out. And I don't know if
you've noticed this or not. Mego, but Mars isn't the
(21:19):
most hospitable planet in the galaxy, and there's no breathable air,
there's no food the planets, you know, protective atmosphere it
burned away eons ago, which you know basically means we'd
have to contend with all that cosmic radiation even after
we've landed. And you know, there is some water on Mars,
but even that is mostly inaccessible. Yeah, So I was
(21:40):
reading about this concept in aerospace research called I s
r U. It's called in situ resource utilization, and the
concept is pretty simple. It's it's basically the science of
mining and utilizing the natural resources that already exist on
other worlds. So you know, rather than dragging everything we
need to survive along with us, you make use of
what's there. And I s r U is really the
(22:02):
key to making a sustainable colony on Mars, because the
planet really does have oxygen and water, it's just that
they're locked away in this icy Martian soil. So if
they're locked away, what what do we do to get
them out? Well, right now, NASA is hoping to use
microwave beams to heat the soil enough to break the
chemical bonds that have trapped the water so As one
(22:23):
NASA researcher explained, if you think about a cubic foot
of this dirt and you heat it just a little
bit a few hundred degrees, then you'll actually get off
about two pints of water, like two water bottles you
take to the gym, Which makes sense, right, It's really cool.
And once we've mastered the are to making water, then
we can zap the breathable gases like oxygen, nitrogen are
(22:45):
gone right out of the water using electrolysis. And the
best part is that all this could be accomplished with
the power generated from a few solar panels. It would
be a pretty self sustaining system as long as the
planets sun obscuring dust storms don't last too long. Well,
And that's an ingenious solution because if you think about,
there's no way we could bundle up everything that we
need to survive and just ship them all to Mars.
(23:07):
And yeah, the heavier something is, the more expensive is
to send into orbit. And you think about that, you've
got a spaceship full of people and equipment that's going
to be heavy and costly enough, and that's without adding
this really almost like this indefinite supply of food and
water into the mix. That's true, but really foods a
whole different headache and of itself. And there's some promising solutions.
(23:29):
But before we get into them, let's take another quick break,
all right, mangoes, So why is it so hard to
get a decent meal on Mars? You know, apart from
(23:50):
the fact that it's outside the delivery zone of I
think most of the pizza places I've been. I've been
saving that joke up for a while. I hope you
enjoyed it well. I mean it goes back to what
we've already mentioned, which is that the air on Mars
is poisonous and the terrain is too cold and sterile
to sustain vegetations. So clearly we'll have to set I
(24:10):
s r U aside on this one and actually send
some food from home instead. But with Mars being like
a hundred forty million miles away, those stack runs will
have to be limited to like every few years. So
with that in mind, NASA has been looking at ways
of growing vegetables in Space for a while now, but
despite what you would have seen on the Martian potatoes
actually aren't on the menu. Instead, astronauts aboard the I
(24:32):
S have actually been cultivating the first plant grown in space,
which is a red romaine lettuce named Outregious. Did you
say outrageous regius? Yeah, the fun in there. Yeah, I'm
glad they're taking this so seriously. So, so what are
they using to grow this stuff? That was It's like
a hydroponic setup or something, Yeah, exactly. So the system
(24:55):
the astronauts used is actually called Veggie, and it's basically
an incubator of the size of the two drawer filing cabinet,
you know, if you think about something that size, And
as you guess, it's a completely soil free system. The
incubator gives the seeds everything they need to thrive, so
that means like water, nutrients, sunlight in the form of
these led bulbs, and and then the astronauts do their
(25:16):
part two just by exhaling carbon dioxide for the plants
to breathe in. So I guess it sort of functions
like this little onboard ecosystem. The humans feed the plants,
plants feed the people and so on, exactly the circle
of life. But you know, as handy as it is
to have a regenerating food source on a spaceship, the
real draw of this veggie system is the added texture
(25:37):
it provides. And you don't think about this, but uh,
you know, crunchiness isn't typically found in astronauts diets. That's
because like crunchy foods like cookies and crackers, they tend
to produce crumbs, which can be tough to wrangle in
zero gravity. But growing produce and space actually solves that problem.
So it finally allows astronauts to add something much needed
(25:57):
crunch to their diets. And if you remember from our
taste issue, fronch actually plays a role in making us
appreciate our foods. Huh. I mean that that's something I
wouldn't have thought about before. And you think about it, Lettuce,
it's about his bland as it gets here on Earth,
but in space it's it's kind of like fine cuisine
actually so, and I would have to imagine, you know,
we're not stopping it, Lettuce though, right, because it seems
(26:17):
like a system like that would work with all kinds
of vegetables, that's right. So NASA has a list of
about ten different vegetables they're testing in the same setup. Um,
I guess a future astronauts will be able to look
forward to rashes, peppers, and even dwarf tomatoes. All right, well,
any Mars abound astronauts will definitely need a safe place
to grow and of course even eat the crops once
(26:40):
they arrive, and they won't be able to stay on
that ship forever. So it leads us to the next
engineering problem the crew has to face, and that's how
to construct a viable shelter. But thankfully this is one
test they won't have to tackle alone because scientists believe
they can offer a mechanical assist in the form of
some high tech construction robots. And is one promising design.
(27:01):
It's a droid named Justin and that was built by
a German space agency called d l R. And I
love that it's just called Justin. I don't know why,
but the engineers have been working on Justin for about
a decade and during that time they've gotten about to
do some pretty amazing things. I was just looking at
the list of some of the things that can do.
Of course, can use tools, catch flying objects, navigate around
(27:22):
these obstacles, as well as shoot and upload photos. It
can apparently also make a really good cup of tea
or coffee, which seems pretty important when you're in space.
But you know what's more impressive is this recent AI
upgrade that enables Justin to actually think for itself, rather
than having to be programmed with these specific instructions in advance.
(27:42):
So there was an article about this in Wired, and
I'll just read you a quote from there. It says
this spot can autonomously perform complex tasks even though it
hasn't been programmed to do object recognition software and computer vision.
Let Justin survey its environment and undertake jobs such as
cleaning and maintaining machinery, inspecting equipment, and carrying objects. In
(28:04):
a recent test, Justin fixed a faulty solar panel and
a Munich lab in minutes, directed via tablet by an
astronaut aboard the International Space Station. Oh that's pretty awesome.
So I mean, I guess in theory, astronauts could actually
remain in the Mars orbit while supervising Justin's work on
the surface below. But assuming we can send a team
of robots to build shelters ahead of time for US
(28:26):
and also make those cups of tea. You know, what
are these shelters supposed to be built out of. I mean,
we can get water and oxygen out of the Martian soil,
but that's not gonna work for building materials like wood
or steel. Right. Well, no, but there actually is something
in the soil that could help with a lot of
the construction, and that sulfur. So I was looking at
this study out of Northwestern and they were showing that
(28:49):
sulfur can be used in place of water to make
this special kind of concrete. So that this is weird
to say, but I was looking into concrete because of
something I was doing on Edison, and I've actually heard
of this stuff like I I feel like it's used
in oil pipelines because it resists corrosion better than the
regular kind of concrete. Yeah, that's true, and it's been
around for decades at this point, but obviously it's never
(29:10):
been put to use and kind of this off world construction.
But that could change because these researchers at Northwestern were
able to mix up their own batch of sulfur concrete.
And to do this they use this simulated Mars soil
and it has the same chemical and mineralogical properties of
you know, the real stuff that you'd find there. And
(29:30):
so when the researchers stress tested different kinds of concrete,
they found that the sulfur concrete made from this Martian
soil was actually twice as strong as the sulfur concrete
we used to make the these oil pipelines. Really, like,
do we know what makes it so much stronger? Not exactly,
but the team does have a theory. You see, here
on Earth, the sulfur in this kind of concrete just
(29:52):
serves as a glue for the gravel. But in this case,
the sulfur might have formed a chemical bond with the
minerals inside that Martian soil. Yeah, yeah, so that that
that bond could actually be the reason for the added strength.
But actually the Martian sulfur concrete would be stronger still
because the gravity on Mars is just a third of
what it is here on Earth. And so really that
(30:13):
would effectively triple the concrete strength on Mars. Huh. So
the stuff is definitely strong enough to build a space
shelter with. But are there any downside do you see here?
Like or is this pretty much a short thing? Well,
I mean there is one potential downside, and that's that
this form of sulfur concrete is incredibly fast setting. I
think it solidifies in an hour or less after it's mixed.
(30:34):
But you know, really that would only be a deal
breaker if we plan to mold all this stuff by hand.
But what's more likely is that we'd use three D
printing when working with sulfur concrete, and so that way
you'd have this robot team that could print as many
structures as you needed, and they would use this locally
sourced Martian concrete and then you just slap this air
tight membrane inside and you're good to go. I mean,
(30:55):
living on Mars just got that much easier, may I mean,
it is like exciting to hear about these ideas. They're
so awesome, and I do have to say, like, that's
one of the best ideas I've heard for surviving on Mars,
because I feel like before that everything I've read about
was like inflatable habitats that Nasla was testing. But you know,
for someone like me and my anxieties, I'd never be
(31:16):
able to relax in something that it's just inflatable, you know,
with all those dust storms and like shards of things
that it seemed to like fly around Mars. I'd be terrified. Yeah,
that just might get popped or something. But you know,
I do think that the threat of sudden extinction would
be there no matter what kind of shelter you're in.
But I'm with you. I'd rather test my luck in
(31:37):
a concrete hut built by these robots than some sort
of I don't know, like a balloon house. Yeah, bouncy house, right, Yeah,
I live in a bounty house on Mars. But you know,
I've actually heard this other idea that, uh, you can
have a balloon house inside of an underground lava tube,
because that's apparently one of the best best for avoiding
the cosmic radiation we've been talking about. I mean, it's
(31:59):
just kind of silly. I don't know. That just keeps
getting better and better than I think. I think. I'm
ready to sign up. But seriously, it's difficult and potentially
terrifying as life on Mars might be. I I do
hope our country stays the course and eventually gets us
there safely, or not us exactly, but somebody other people
should definitely go. Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm staying here where
(32:23):
the air and the water don't have to be zapped
out of the dirt. But I am a d for
other people taking this trip. Yeah, I'm with you, and
obviously like the pool to explore is such a deeply
rooted part of being human, and backing away from Mars
now when we're finally so close after so many years
of dreaming and planning, it really kind of feels like
(32:44):
it could be a betrayal of our dreams, because you know,
if we're not reaching for greatness and planets and stars, like,
what are we doing? I don't know. I mean maybe
we're listing facts back and forth and some sort of
quasi competitive head to head challenge. What do you think? Yeah,
I mean, it's not a trip to Mars, but you know,
I'm never going to turn down the fact off. Yeah. Alright. Well,
(33:13):
one group that may be eager to get to Mars
is mountain climbers. There have been more than four thousand
people to climb Mount Everest so far, but Everest has
nothing on mars highest peak, Olympus Mons, which is more
than seventy two thousand feet in elevation, and that's more
than double Everest at its tiny peak of a little
over twenty nine thousand feet And don't worry, NASA actually
(33:35):
already has a trail map for those wanting to scope
out how they might get to the top. You can
find it online. I mean, that's ridiculous that they've created
these maps and it will be interesting to see which sure,
if I gets to the top first, but I guess
they'll at least have gravity on their side on that planet.
But um, speaking of first, did you know that there
has already been the first song played on Mars. Yeah. So,
(33:56):
the Curiosity rover on Mars has helped us explore the surface,
you know, of the planet, and it's controlled by a
team here on Earth, and those communications come in the
form of these vibrations which produce a series of harmonics.
Well you know, typically these harmonics don't really produce anything
we'd want to listen to. But on August five thirteen,
to celebrate one year since Curiosity had landed on Mars,
(34:19):
the team sent a series of vibrations which resulted in
the playing of Happy Birthday, which seems so sweet until
you realize it's probably the loneliest birthday in the universe.
That's a good point. That's a very good point. All right, Well,
you know, when humans travel to new places, we of
course think about what we might be exposed to and
of the dangers related to that, but we don't always
(34:40):
think about what we might be exposing the new environments too. Thankfully,
NASA does think about this, because we really don't want
a situation where we're introducing foreign microbes that you know,
may take over an environment before we even get to
learn anything about it. So there's actually a dedicated department
at NASA known as the Office of Planetary Protection or
op e P for short, and that just focuses on
(35:02):
the policies to assist NASA and preventing those sorts of
disaster scenarios. So I always wondered, is that what O
p P? And that song stands for? Yeah, I'm pretty
sure that it was. Yeah, let's go with it. So
one of the other things we might not think about
is how much living on Mars would mess with our
circadian rhythms. And a day on Mars is approximately twenty
(35:24):
four hours and thirty nine minutes, And at first that
doesn't seem like that big a problem, doesn't seem that
far off from Earth, but it would actually be pretty problematic.
So the average woman's circadian rhythm lasts twenty four hours
in six minutes, and for men it's twenty four hours
and twelve minutes. And again, that doesn't seem far off,
but it adds up, and what it really means is
(35:44):
that every few days it would be like traveling west
by a couple of time zones, which you know would
be pretty tough on your body. Yeah, I hadn't thought
about that before. When I first saw that twenty four
hours and thirty nine minutes, I fell into the same thing,
thinking like that wouldn't be a big deal at all,
But that's it makes sense. All. We talked a little
bit earlier about the most recent class of NASA astronauts,
(36:06):
and it is pretty cool to see that for the
first time half of them are female. And I'm pretty
sure cost has nothing to do with it, but it
is interesting to note that it would actually be a
good bit cheaper to send an all women crew to Mars.
They're lighter on average, which means burning less fuel, and
they need fewer calories, which also means transporting less food.
I mean, how awesome would that view if, like the
(36:27):
first crew to Mars was all women. Would that be incredible,
be pretty cool. So here's the fact I think is
super weird. If you're standing on mars Is Equator and
measure the temperature at your feet and at your head,
you find an almost forty degree fahrenheit difference. It's about
seventy degrees fahrenheit on the warmer ground and at about
thirty two degrees fahrenheit at the top of your head.
(36:49):
It feels like you have no idea what to wear.
If that was the case, right, yeah, you probably do.
You do like flip flops and then progressively like colder
and colder weather off, how would be so weird? Al Right, well, mango,
I have no idea how we've talked about Mars without
making a single bad candy bar jokes. I just want
to go ahead and ruin this for us. And I'd
(37:10):
like to mention that this Nickers bar, which comes in
at number eight on my list of best candy bars,
was named for a horse owned by the Mars family.
So there, yeah, well, I mean you did ruin this
for us. I love that. I'm going to give you
the ward. Thank you so much, and thank you guys
for listening. I'm sure there are tons of great facts
(37:30):
about Mars that we didn't include in today's episode, and
as always, we'd love to hear those from you. You
can reach us by email part Time Genius and How
Stuff Works dot com, or you can call us one
fact hotline that's one eight four four pt Genius, and
as always, you can reach us on Facebook or Twitter.
But thanks so much for listening. Thanks again for listening.
(38:02):
Part Time Genius is a production of How Stuff Works
and wouldn't be possible without several brilliant people who do
the important things we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan
McNeil does the editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme
song and does the mixy mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland
does the exact producer thing. Gabe Louesier is our lead researcher,
with support from the research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan
Brown and Lucas Adams and Eve Jeff Cook gets the
(38:24):
show to your ears. Good job, Eves. If you like
what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe, And if you
really really like what you've heard, maybe you could leave
a good review for us. Do you forget Jason who
Guess what mango with that? Well, you remember back in
our episode on Hawaii, we we talked about this year
long simulation by a group of brave scientists and what
they endured on the side of mounta Loa. Right, Yeah,
they were trying to simulate what life might be like
on Mars, that's right. So physicist Christiane Heineke, she wrote
this great piece about the experience in Scientific American and
(00:20):
I'd only read a little bit about it before, so
it was fascinating to read this piece. But the experiment
was to test a bunch of things, Like they obviously
know that a real mission to Mars would be much
more complicated than surviving in a dome on the side
of a volcano, you know, especially when that volcanoes in Hawaii.
As a side note, this is not the volcano that's
been erupting recently. That might have made it a little
(00:41):
bit more of a difficult experiment. But they did want
to see what it would do to people if they
were isolated for a year in a pretty barren environment
and really only able to depend on each other. Yeah.
I mean, there's actually a term for that type of scenario.
It's called ice, which stands for isolated, confined, and extreme.
But the thing that's rucked me was the team they
assembled for this mission was incredible. Yeah, it really makes
(01:04):
you think about the different types of skills you need
if you send a group like this too Mars for
the simulation. They had a pilot and a flight controller
that served as their engineer. There was a physician, an astrobiologist,
a soil scientist. They even had an architect focused on
space habitats. I mean, talk about an interesting job. And
then there was Heineke who was a geophysicist. Yeah, it's
(01:26):
so varied, it's awesome. Well there's a short bit from
her piece that I thought was worth reading, and here's
what she says. She said, cut off from civilization, we
were dependent on ourselves and on each other. We had
to perform any work that needed doing and fix anything
that broke. All we had was the material contained and
the storage unit dubbed the c can. The nearest supermarket
(01:47):
was months away. We received news from Earth electronically with
a twenty minute delay. That's about how long it takes
for signals to travel the maximum distance of two hundred
and forty million miles between the two planets to be honest,
it took weeks for me to realize just what I've
gotten into. Yeah, I mean, it's impossible to imagine what
that would be like, but that hasn't stopped us from
(02:08):
being incredibly curious about the experience. And I'm actually sure
that many of our listeners know there's this new podcast
from Gimlet called The Habitat and it's about this very simulation. Yeah,
and you know, it's just one of many recent projects,
both in fiction and in nonfiction, focused on what this
journey to Mars, or even living on Mars might actually
be like. And it's definitely starting to feel like we
(02:30):
might witness humans landing or living on Mars in our lifetime.
So in today's episode, we thought we'd explore questions like
who will be the first to get to Mars, why
are we so consumed with getting there? And how will
humans survive once we do get there? So let's dive in.
(03:07):
He their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm
Will Pearson and it's always I'm joined by my good
friend man guest Ticketer and on the other side of
the soundproof glass wearing a shirt that reads in Musk,
we trust Mars. Or bust. That's our friend and producer
Tristan McNeil. And you know, I've got to say Tristan
must know a guy, because I'm guessing this is yet
another of his custom printed shirts, right actually, you know,
(03:30):
I've seen that one advertised online. They're just so much
excitement right now about the prospect to go into Mars,
and it does kind of look like Elon Musk might
be the guy to get us there well, and Tristan
is definitely not the only one putting his trust in Musk.
You know, after doing some research for today's show, I've
got to say it's not such a bad bet. You know,
the SpaceX program has made some serious strides towards getting
(03:52):
mankind to the Red Planet within our lifetime, but SpaceX
is hardly the only game in town. I mean, there
are plenty of other companies, not to mention country Eas
that have their eyes set on launching the first man
mission to Mars, and their goal now seems closer than
it ever has before. So with all that excitement in
the air, I thought it'd be fun to kind of
take stock of all these competing Mars missions and hopefully
(04:14):
give us a clearer picture not only of who will
make it to Mars first and when that might actually happen. Really,
why we're also dead set on getting there in the
first place. Yeah, So why don't we start by getting
a little perspective on just how much public interest there
currently isn't going to Mars. So historically there's always been
this uptick and applicants anytime a new milestone starts to
(04:35):
look achievable. So if you think about like nineteen seventy eight,
that's the year the Voyager mission set out on its
tour the Solar System, NASA actually set a record with
eight thousand applicants, and that record stood for nearly forty
years until the agency's most recent call for new hires.
You know, I was actually gonna ask how often NASA
accepts applications, because if I'm not mistaken, it's not a
(04:58):
yearly thing, right not. So, they typically bring on a
new class of astronauts every few years or so, and
the most recent class began applying in late two thousand fifteen,
and the time before that was in late two thousand eleven.
But this most recent crop of applicants was the biggest yet.
More than eighteen thousand people applied to be part of
NASA's new class, and that totally destroys the previous record
(05:20):
by more than ten thousand people, which is pretty crazy.
I mean, there must have been more disappointed applicants than
ever before. And I can't imagine NASA's in need of
tens of thousands of astronauts and you know one time, Yeah,
definitely not. In fact, the newest class consists of just
twelve people. There are five women and seven men, and
even that is like three times the number of people
(05:43):
needed for the four person crew NASA has a mind
for its first Mars mission, So eighteen thousand people, which
is we died down to twelve people and then from
that only four will end up going on the mission.
I mean, it's clearly more than enough interest out there.
But did you get any sense of where all of
this is coming from? And I know, we had the
Matt Damon movie just called The Martian and it was
(06:05):
a big hit, but there's got to be more to
it than that, right, So I know it sounds strange,
but The Martian is actually a great example of a
kind of cross pollination between space flight and pop culture
that's taken place in the last few years and it's
actually no coincidence that the movie premiered just two months
before NASA announced his latest call for astronauts, like the
(06:25):
agency actually consulted a lot for the makers of that movie,
largely because it saw the film as a way to
generate more excitement for a future Mars mission. And if
you took any marketing classes in college, which I think
you might have taken one or two, you'll remember one
of the golden rules of marketing, and that's, you know,
nothing stokes the public interests like the promise of growing
space potatoes fertilized with your own feces. I think it
(06:48):
was like rule number seven marketing one on one. Rule
seven's right. But the Martian isn't the only new recruitment
tool to benefit NASA in recent years, like the one
that's actually helped the most social media. So when NASA
called for new hires back in two thousand eleven, the
Shuttle program had just ended and this mission to Mars
seemed too far off to put much stock in. But
(07:10):
even then, like NASA's crop of applicants that year was
still strong. It was I think around like six thousand total.
But clearly something happened between then in the record setting
response that we saw in two thousand and fifteen. And
so you're saying that really was just social media. Yeah,
I mean I think it played a big role. So
between two thousand eleven and two thousand fifteen, the number
(07:30):
of American adults who used at least one social media
platform grew by fiftent and you know, you can bet
NASA took notice of that growth. So, according to NASA
spokeswoman Stephanie Sheerholtz, she says, uh, we made a concerted
outreach effort that incorporated social media like never before. So
all of a sudden, you have like astronauts tweeting pictures,
(07:52):
you know, from their training sessions. You've got these like
live streamed rocket launches and YouTube videos where astronauts on
the s s are like cutting their nails and showing
you how they take showers. It's pretty amazing. Yeah, And
I know, we also liked watching Chris Hadfield's cover of
Space Oddity, and he obviously did that from space and
where we had him on the show. Such a nice guy.
(08:13):
But in a way, it feels like social media made
astronauts cool again, kind of like they had been in
the early days of the Space program. Yeah, I mean,
the public had never gotten such an intimate and real
time look at the life and work of astronauts before that,
and ultimately it sparked this like new generation of people
who were super passionate. Well, and so now we've covered
a few factors behind the current space boom, I feel
(08:36):
like we should talk about some of the major players
that are hoping to capitalize on this interest. So we've
already mentioned Elon Musk and the space X venture. You know,
they've set this rather lofty goal of sending a manned
rocket to Mars By and whether that actually happens, it's
i'd say it's still pretty much up in the air
at this point. Yeah, I mean, they've been testing the
world's first partially reusable rockets, which could cut launch costs
(08:58):
by as much as thirty then and obviously make the
missions to Marrows much more feasible. But while the tests
have been this huge success, like, there's still a lot
of room for improvement, and it's tough to imagine making
that much progress and just I don't know, five or
six years. Well, you do have to remember that Musk
has a secret weapon for getting to Mars and that's
his so called bf are what he calls the big
(09:19):
eff ng rocket, And this would be this massive three
fifty feet tall rocket and it's propelled by thirty one
smaller methane fueled rockets. Now, once again, the whole system
would be completely reusable. So the idea is that the
b FR would send a hundred people to Mars aboard
a detachable spaceship. Now that you've got the system's rocket booster,
that would just detach and then land back on Earth
(09:41):
and be reused again and again. I mean, when when
we watched that recent test that they did, it was
just amazing to watch them land, and it would be
really cool if they could manage to pull it off.
But I'm curious, like, why does Musk want to go
to Mars so badly? Like what does he know that
we don't Well, I don't know. I was starting to
think about that too, and and more likely than not,
(10:01):
he's just eager for humans to explore more of that
final frontier that we've heard so much about. And I
don't know. You can kind of be the judge though.
Here's here's one of must statements on the importance of
a mission to Mars. He says, you want to wake
up in the morning and think the future is going
to be great. And that's what being a space faring
civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future
and thinking that the future will be better than the past.
(10:23):
And I can't think of anything more exciting than going
out there and being among the stars. History is going
to buy for Kate along two directions. One path as
we stay on Earth forever and eventually there will be
some extinction event. The alternative is to be a space
faring civilization and a multi planet species. So I mean,
it sounds like there are two ideas of play from
(10:44):
us here, Like one is exploration for the sake of exploration, right,
It's like this desire to like see the cosmos and
learn new things. And the other is this idea of
self preservation that, like, you know, if you take a
long enough timeline, something bad is bound to happen on
this planet, so it's in our own best interest to
set up shop on another one sooner rather than later.
(11:07):
That sounds right, and I think there's merit to both
of those ways of thinking. But you know, not all
Mars hopefuls have such clear cut motivations. For instance, you've
heard of Mars one, right, you know it's this private,
nonprofit Dutch. Yeah. Yeah, And so they aimed to colonize
Mars by I think one, And unlike other missions that
we're talking about today, Mars one isn't worried about bringing
(11:30):
space colonists back to their home planet. Mars one would
actually just be this one way trip. I mean, I've
heard about this obviously, and it's super controversial. I remember
reading a study from M I T where scientists analyzed
the proposed plan and they concluded that all the Mars
one astromis would actually be dead within sixty eight days.
Isn't that crazy? I would not consider that a successful
(11:53):
mission if that's what's happened, and all the money that
would be spent for those sixty eight days. But you know,
if you look at their initial proposal was super unrealistic.
I mean, for one thing, the Mars one team isn't
developing its own technology. They're they're really just planning to
use whatever the other aerospace companies come up with. And
they're estimating it would only cost six billion dollars to
send four people to Mars. And I say, only six
(12:15):
billion dollars. That sounds like a ton of money, but
it's really a low number when you consider the Apollo program.
They spent about a hundred and forty billion dollars to
send twelve people to the Moon. Wait, so not only
are they pinning all their hopes on using someone else's tech,
but they're also hoping to score that tech for like
bargain basement deals. That's exactly right. But you know what
(12:37):
else is crazy about this is that, you know, Mars
one hasn't even secured that low ball funding that they're
hoping for. And this is where it really just gets
even nuttier. Apparently the plan is to finance the mission
through a reality TV show and a series of documentaries
that would follow the crew through their training and this is,
you know, all of that training leading up to going
(12:57):
to Mars, And honestly, it just sounds like the worst
plan ever. I mean, I can't see how a show
like that would work, unless, like they were trying to
make the first boy band assembled on Mars, or I
guess send some Jersey housewives to Mars. Like that feels
like a show i'd watch, but you're right, i'd watch that.
But like, what if the show tanks as they're up
(13:19):
there and people just lose interest, Like once that funding
drives up, does the crew just like end up there
on their own? I mean, I guess so, and and
it it turns out that's just one of the many
flaws in the Mars one plan. But but it actually
doesn't stop more than two hundred thousand people from applying
for the privilege to be, as Pacific Standards put it,
(13:39):
among the first humans to die on Mars. I just
thought that was great. I mean, I don't know who
wants that title, but I can imagine how some like
I guess Daredevil astronauts might be really into it. Yeah,
you know, I think about it kind of like it
is with cloning. I mean, if we ever find a
way to bring back the dinosaurs, there's gonna be somebody
that's gonna be the first to get eaten by the dinosaurs,
(14:01):
you know, And I think I'd want my biggest claim
to feign me that I was the first person ever
eaten by a t rex. But yeah, maybe there's a
certain kind of appeal there for something someone wants that.
But I do think we should just like table this
for another time, because I think it'd be fun for
another episode. But right now, let's talk a little bit
about NASA's plan for getting to Mars as well as
some of the other challenges that are definitely gonna crop off.
(14:22):
All right, that sounds like a plan, But first let's
take a quick break. They're listening to Part Time Genius
and we're talking about the who, when, why, and how
of human kinds first mission to Mars. All right, Mango,
(14:45):
So we've covered one promising program and one maybe not
so promising program from the private sector. But now let's
talk about the organization that probably stands the best chance
of making it to Mars first, and that of course
is NASA. Yeah. So NASA's car plan is to get
humans into low Mars orbit by the early twenty thirties,
and then they want to have a crew actually land
(15:06):
on the planet's surface before the end of that decade.
And to make that happen, the agency is hard at work,
like testing this equipment they hope we'll get humans there
and back. I'm sure you're probably wondering what type of
stuff they're gonna use. Like one of the most promising
pieces of hardware that they're working on is called the
Space Launch System SLS. Is this new rocket meant to
propel humans and cargo out of Earth's orbit. So this is,
(15:28):
I guess, kind of like NASA's answer to the to
the big fing rocket, right, yeah, exactly like muss And
and for the crew itself, NASA is testing it's a
Ryan capsule, which is meant to lay the groundwork for
even larger deep space exploration vehicles. It's the kind of
thing that could consumably support a full crew for the
entire one million mile trip. And that's you know, the
(15:49):
distance is to get to Mars, all right, So it
sounds like, no matter how you slice it, we're good,
what fifteen to twenty years away from landing a human
on Mars. And that's all assuming that research doesn't hit
a brick all along the way. But given that timeline,
who do you think is going to get there first?
So NASA obviously has the you know, the best track
record when it comes to space faring, and they've got
(16:11):
like the technical know how, they've got you know, the crew.
But like the biggest potential stumbling block is funding, and
the Space Program's budget ebbs and flows with each administration.
So even if NASA knows what it's doing there's zero
guarantee that the money will be there to carry out
the mission when the time comes. And of course, you know,
NASA is totally aware its status as like a political football,
(16:34):
so that's why the agency has been going all out
on these marketing efforts, which we talked about earlier. Yeah,
and I know those funding concerns are a big part
of why some people consider SpaceX to be the front runner.
And Elon musk pockets might not be as deep as
the governments, but you know, in the past several years,
he's definitely proven himself a lot more willing to put
up the cash for space research than Congress has. But
(16:55):
it is worth keeping in mind that a large chunk
of SpaceX revenue is thanks to its own contracts with NASA,
So if NASA's budget gets slashed, then you know, there's
no guarantee that SpaceX will have the cash needed to
fill that gap. So in a sense, the best chance
of getting to Mars in the next couple of decades
might actually be of SpaceX and NASA were to team
up and and maybe pool those resources. Yeah, I mean,
(17:18):
it would be fascinating to watch if that happens, And
I actually think there's a decent chance it could happen
as we get closer to their planned launch dates. But
you know, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here.
There are still all kinds of problems that need to
be worked out before we can send anyone to Mars,
and that includes challenges both for the journey itself as
well as when we get there. Yeah, I mean speaking
of that, I was actually reading about some of the
(17:40):
physical strains that astronauts have to deal with when when
they're there, and it's not a pretty picture. I mean,
the g forces alone would be insane, so much so
in fact, that some researchers have suggested removing the appendix
and the gall bladder of any of these Mars bound
crew members ahead of time. I mean, just to avoid
the organs rupturing from all the pressure changes. Huh. Well,
(18:01):
I mean you can think about that, which is crazy,
but also the psychological effects of such a long trip,
like the voyage to Mars will take about four or
five months each way. I mean, that's an awful lot
of time to spend in those quarters with you know,
just a handful of people, and that's while moving at
the speeds you were talking about, Um, I even read
this one study that suggested that, like, the prolonged exposure
(18:24):
to cosmic radiation might actually mess with the astronauts brains,
So mess with them how exactly? Yeah, this is based
on research out at University of California, and it was
one of several studies meant to examine the neurological effects
of sending people on long outer space missions. It was
to get an idea of what these cosmic rays might do.
The researchers irradiated a bunch of lab mice with particles
(18:46):
found in space, and the dosage they used was actually
equivalent to what a human might experience on like a
tended thirty day mission. And then the mice underwent a
series of behavioral tests, and as you might expect, the
irradiated mice performed much worse on these tests than the
non irradiated ones. But strangers still, when the scientists actually
dissected the mice two weeks later, they found that the
(19:08):
radiation had effectively prune the mice's brain cells. I mean,
it's crazy. Many of the branches that allow the brain
cells to communicate with one another, We're just straight up gone, Oh,
it's just terrifying. So so would the same thing happen
in a human brain. I mean, that's the thing, right,
there's every reason to think so. And the biggest mystery,
like once you know that, is that we don't know
(19:28):
how these missing brain cells might actually impact the humans behavior,
Like it's doubtful that these cosmic rays would actually prove
life threatening, but they could jeopardize the mission in all
sorts of other ways, Like researchers worried that the prune
brain cells might reduce someone's ability to respond to new
situations and you know, come up with creative solutions for things.
It would obviously be a huge problem when exploring a
(19:51):
different planet. So it's weird because this is the first
I've heard about this, and I know we've obviously sent
plenty of people into space by now. So what about
the astronat aunts who landed on the Moon and came back,
Like why didn't they have brain damage? Or you know
the people that are on the International Space Station and
they're there months at a time. Yeah, it's a really
good question. So I looked into that too. But you know,
(20:12):
the missions to the Moon only lasted a few days,
whereas like the voyage tomorrows would take about a hundred
and fifty days, so we're talking a whole different experience
than level of exposure here. And while it's definitely true
that astronauts has spent that kind of time aboard, the
I S. S Station is actually positioned below the Earth's magnetosphere,
which means that's shielded from I guess most forms of
(20:34):
space radiation. So I'm curious what the solution would actually
be or is it just as simple as like wrapping
the Mars ship and tinfoil or something like that to
help shield it. I mean, I wish it was that easy.
Like the truth is that, like trying to take anything
that's big enough or strong enough to shield and block
that amount of cosmic radiation would actually make the ship
way too heavy to fly. So instead researchers are trying
(20:57):
to figure out a solution for the astronauts themselves. Like
the current hope is that they can find a new
drug that would hopefully block the radiation before it can
reach the brain. Well, and if you think about this
is only the voyage to Mars that we're talking about,
So once the astronauts actually reach the red planet, they
will have a whole new list of problems to, you know,
to kind of figure out. And I don't know if
you've noticed this or not. Mego, but Mars isn't the
(21:19):
most hospitable planet in the galaxy, and there's no breathable air,
there's no food the planets, you know, protective atmosphere it
burned away eons ago, which you know basically means we'd
have to contend with all that cosmic radiation even after
we've landed. And you know, there is some water on Mars,
but even that is mostly inaccessible. Yeah, So I was
(21:40):
reading about this concept in aerospace research called I s
r U. It's called in situ resource utilization, and the
concept is pretty simple. It's it's basically the science of
mining and utilizing the natural resources that already exist on
other worlds. So you know, rather than dragging everything we
need to survive along with us, you make use of
what's there. And I s r U is really the
(22:02):
key to making a sustainable colony on Mars, because the
planet really does have oxygen and water, it's just that
they're locked away in this icy Martian soil. So if
they're locked away, what what do we do to get
them out? Well, right now, NASA is hoping to use
microwave beams to heat the soil enough to break the
chemical bonds that have trapped the water so As one
(22:23):
NASA researcher explained, if you think about a cubic foot
of this dirt and you heat it just a little
bit a few hundred degrees, then you'll actually get off
about two pints of water, like two water bottles you
take to the gym, Which makes sense, right, It's really cool.
And once we've mastered the are to making water, then
we can zap the breathable gases like oxygen, nitrogen are
(22:45):
gone right out of the water using electrolysis. And the
best part is that all this could be accomplished with
the power generated from a few solar panels. It would
be a pretty self sustaining system as long as the
planets sun obscuring dust storms don't last too long. Well,
And that's an ingenious solution because if you think about,
there's no way we could bundle up everything that we
need to survive and just ship them all to Mars.
(23:07):
And yeah, the heavier something is, the more expensive is
to send into orbit. And you think about that, you've
got a spaceship full of people and equipment that's going
to be heavy and costly enough, and that's without adding
this really almost like this indefinite supply of food and
water into the mix. That's true, but really foods a
whole different headache and of itself. And there's some promising solutions.
(23:29):
But before we get into them, let's take another quick break,
all right, mangoes, So why is it so hard to
get a decent meal on Mars? You know, apart from
(23:50):
the fact that it's outside the delivery zone of I
think most of the pizza places I've been. I've been
saving that joke up for a while. I hope you
enjoyed it well. I mean it goes back to what
we've already mentioned, which is that the air on Mars
is poisonous and the terrain is too cold and sterile
to sustain vegetations. So clearly we'll have to set I
(24:10):
s r U aside on this one and actually send
some food from home instead. But with Mars being like
a hundred forty million miles away, those stack runs will
have to be limited to like every few years. So
with that in mind, NASA has been looking at ways
of growing vegetables in Space for a while now, but
despite what you would have seen on the Martian potatoes
actually aren't on the menu. Instead, astronauts aboard the I
(24:32):
S have actually been cultivating the first plant grown in space,
which is a red romaine lettuce named Outregious. Did you
say outrageous regius? Yeah, the fun in there. Yeah, I'm
glad they're taking this so seriously. So, so what are
they using to grow this stuff? That was It's like
a hydroponic setup or something, Yeah, exactly. So the system
(24:55):
the astronauts used is actually called Veggie, and it's basically
an incubator of the size of the two drawer filing cabinet,
you know, if you think about something that size, And
as you guess, it's a completely soil free system. The
incubator gives the seeds everything they need to thrive, so
that means like water, nutrients, sunlight in the form of
these led bulbs, and and then the astronauts do their
(25:16):
part two just by exhaling carbon dioxide for the plants
to breathe in. So I guess it sort of functions
like this little onboard ecosystem. The humans feed the plants,
plants feed the people and so on, exactly the circle
of life. But you know, as handy as it is
to have a regenerating food source on a spaceship, the
real draw of this veggie system is the added texture
(25:37):
it provides. And you don't think about this, but uh,
you know, crunchiness isn't typically found in astronauts diets. That's
because like crunchy foods like cookies and crackers, they tend
to produce crumbs, which can be tough to wrangle in
zero gravity. But growing produce and space actually solves that problem.
So it finally allows astronauts to add something much needed
(25:57):
crunch to their diets. And if you remember from our
taste issue, fronch actually plays a role in making us
appreciate our foods. Huh. I mean that that's something I
wouldn't have thought about before. And you think about it, Lettuce,
it's about his bland as it gets here on Earth,
but in space it's it's kind of like fine cuisine
actually so, and I would have to imagine, you know,
we're not stopping it, Lettuce though, right, because it seems
(26:17):
like a system like that would work with all kinds
of vegetables, that's right. So NASA has a list of
about ten different vegetables they're testing in the same setup. Um,
I guess a future astronauts will be able to look
forward to rashes, peppers, and even dwarf tomatoes. All right, well,
any Mars abound astronauts will definitely need a safe place
to grow and of course even eat the crops once
(26:40):
they arrive, and they won't be able to stay on
that ship forever. So it leads us to the next
engineering problem the crew has to face, and that's how
to construct a viable shelter. But thankfully this is one
test they won't have to tackle alone because scientists believe
they can offer a mechanical assist in the form of
some high tech construction robots. And is one promising design.
(27:01):
It's a droid named Justin and that was built by
a German space agency called d l R. And I
love that it's just called Justin. I don't know why,
but the engineers have been working on Justin for about
a decade and during that time they've gotten about to
do some pretty amazing things. I was just looking at
the list of some of the things that can do.
Of course, can use tools, catch flying objects, navigate around
(27:22):
these obstacles, as well as shoot and upload photos. It
can apparently also make a really good cup of tea
or coffee, which seems pretty important when you're in space.
But you know what's more impressive is this recent AI
upgrade that enables Justin to actually think for itself, rather
than having to be programmed with these specific instructions in advance.
(27:42):
So there was an article about this in Wired, and
I'll just read you a quote from there. It says
this spot can autonomously perform complex tasks even though it
hasn't been programmed to do object recognition software and computer vision.
Let Justin survey its environment and undertake jobs such as
cleaning and maintaining machinery, inspecting equipment, and carrying objects. In
(28:04):
a recent test, Justin fixed a faulty solar panel and
a Munich lab in minutes, directed via tablet by an
astronaut aboard the International Space Station. Oh that's pretty awesome.
So I mean, I guess in theory, astronauts could actually
remain in the Mars orbit while supervising Justin's work on
the surface below. But assuming we can send a team
of robots to build shelters ahead of time for US
(28:26):
and also make those cups of tea. You know, what
are these shelters supposed to be built out of. I mean,
we can get water and oxygen out of the Martian soil,
but that's not gonna work for building materials like wood
or steel. Right. Well, no, but there actually is something
in the soil that could help with a lot of
the construction, and that sulfur. So I was looking at
this study out of Northwestern and they were showing that
(28:49):
sulfur can be used in place of water to make
this special kind of concrete. So that this is weird
to say, but I was looking into concrete because of
something I was doing on Edison, and I've actually heard
of this stuff like I I feel like it's used
in oil pipelines because it resists corrosion better than the
regular kind of concrete. Yeah, that's true, and it's been
around for decades at this point, but obviously it's never
(29:10):
been put to use and kind of this off world construction.
But that could change because these researchers at Northwestern were
able to mix up their own batch of sulfur concrete.
And to do this they use this simulated Mars soil
and it has the same chemical and mineralogical properties of
you know, the real stuff that you'd find there. And
(29:30):
so when the researchers stress tested different kinds of concrete,
they found that the sulfur concrete made from this Martian
soil was actually twice as strong as the sulfur concrete
we used to make the these oil pipelines. Really, like,
do we know what makes it so much stronger? Not exactly,
but the team does have a theory. You see, here
on Earth, the sulfur in this kind of concrete just
(29:52):
serves as a glue for the gravel. But in this case,
the sulfur might have formed a chemical bond with the
minerals inside that Martian soil. Yeah, yeah, so that that
that bond could actually be the reason for the added strength.
But actually the Martian sulfur concrete would be stronger still
because the gravity on Mars is just a third of
what it is here on Earth. And so really that
(30:13):
would effectively triple the concrete strength on Mars. Huh. So
the stuff is definitely strong enough to build a space
shelter with. But are there any downside do you see here?
Like or is this pretty much a short thing? Well,
I mean there is one potential downside, and that's that
this form of sulfur concrete is incredibly fast setting. I
think it solidifies in an hour or less after it's mixed.
(30:34):
But you know, really that would only be a deal
breaker if we plan to mold all this stuff by hand.
But what's more likely is that we'd use three D
printing when working with sulfur concrete, and so that way
you'd have this robot team that could print as many
structures as you needed, and they would use this locally
sourced Martian concrete and then you just slap this air
tight membrane inside and you're good to go. I mean,
(30:55):
living on Mars just got that much easier, may I mean,
it is like exciting to hear about these ideas. They're
so awesome, and I do have to say, like, that's
one of the best ideas I've heard for surviving on Mars,
because I feel like before that everything I've read about
was like inflatable habitats that Nasla was testing. But you know,
for someone like me and my anxieties, I'd never be
(31:16):
able to relax in something that it's just inflatable, you know,
with all those dust storms and like shards of things
that it seemed to like fly around Mars. I'd be terrified. Yeah,
that just might get popped or something. But you know,
I do think that the threat of sudden extinction would
be there no matter what kind of shelter you're in.
But I'm with you. I'd rather test my luck in
(31:37):
a concrete hut built by these robots than some sort
of I don't know, like a balloon house. Yeah, bouncy house, right, Yeah,
I live in a bounty house on Mars. But you know,
I've actually heard this other idea that, uh, you can
have a balloon house inside of an underground lava tube,
because that's apparently one of the best best for avoiding
the cosmic radiation we've been talking about. I mean, it's
(31:59):
just kind of silly. I don't know. That just keeps
getting better and better than I think. I think. I'm
ready to sign up. But seriously, it's difficult and potentially
terrifying as life on Mars might be. I I do
hope our country stays the course and eventually gets us
there safely, or not us exactly, but somebody other people
should definitely go. Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm staying here where
(32:23):
the air and the water don't have to be zapped
out of the dirt. But I am a d for
other people taking this trip. Yeah, I'm with you, and
obviously like the pool to explore is such a deeply
rooted part of being human, and backing away from Mars
now when we're finally so close after so many years
of dreaming and planning, it really kind of feels like
(32:44):
it could be a betrayal of our dreams, because you know,
if we're not reaching for greatness and planets and stars, like,
what are we doing? I don't know. I mean maybe
we're listing facts back and forth and some sort of
quasi competitive head to head challenge. What do you think? Yeah,
I mean, it's not a trip to Mars, but you know,
I'm never going to turn down the fact off. Yeah. Alright. Well,
(33:13):
one group that may be eager to get to Mars
is mountain climbers. There have been more than four thousand
people to climb Mount Everest so far, but Everest has
nothing on mars highest peak, Olympus Mons, which is more
than seventy two thousand feet in elevation, and that's more
than double Everest at its tiny peak of a little
over twenty nine thousand feet And don't worry, NASA actually
(33:35):
already has a trail map for those wanting to scope
out how they might get to the top. You can
find it online. I mean, that's ridiculous that they've created
these maps and it will be interesting to see which sure,
if I gets to the top first, but I guess
they'll at least have gravity on their side on that planet.
But um, speaking of first, did you know that there
has already been the first song played on Mars. Yeah. So,
(33:56):
the Curiosity rover on Mars has helped us explore the surface,
you know, of the planet, and it's controlled by a
team here on Earth, and those communications come in the
form of these vibrations which produce a series of harmonics.
Well you know, typically these harmonics don't really produce anything
we'd want to listen to. But on August five thirteen,
to celebrate one year since Curiosity had landed on Mars,
(34:19):
the team sent a series of vibrations which resulted in
the playing of Happy Birthday, which seems so sweet until
you realize it's probably the loneliest birthday in the universe.
That's a good point. That's a very good point. All right, Well,
you know, when humans travel to new places, we of
course think about what we might be exposed to and
of the dangers related to that, but we don't always
(34:40):
think about what we might be exposing the new environments too. Thankfully,
NASA does think about this, because we really don't want
a situation where we're introducing foreign microbes that you know,
may take over an environment before we even get to
learn anything about it. So there's actually a dedicated department
at NASA known as the Office of Planetary Protection or
op e P for short, and that just focuses on
(35:02):
the policies to assist NASA and preventing those sorts of
disaster scenarios. So I always wondered, is that what O
p P? And that song stands for? Yeah, I'm pretty
sure that it was. Yeah, let's go with it. So
one of the other things we might not think about
is how much living on Mars would mess with our
circadian rhythms. And a day on Mars is approximately twenty
(35:24):
four hours and thirty nine minutes, And at first that
doesn't seem like that big a problem, doesn't seem that
far off from Earth, but it would actually be pretty problematic.
So the average woman's circadian rhythm lasts twenty four hours
in six minutes, and for men it's twenty four hours
and twelve minutes. And again, that doesn't seem far off,
but it adds up, and what it really means is
(35:44):
that every few days it would be like traveling west
by a couple of time zones, which you know would
be pretty tough on your body. Yeah, I hadn't thought
about that before. When I first saw that twenty four
hours and thirty nine minutes, I fell into the same thing,
thinking like that wouldn't be a big deal at all,
But that's it makes sense. All. We talked a little
bit earlier about the most recent class of NASA astronauts,
(36:06):
and it is pretty cool to see that for the
first time half of them are female. And I'm pretty
sure cost has nothing to do with it, but it
is interesting to note that it would actually be a
good bit cheaper to send an all women crew to Mars.
They're lighter on average, which means burning less fuel, and
they need fewer calories, which also means transporting less food.
I mean, how awesome would that view if, like the
(36:27):
first crew to Mars was all women. Would that be incredible,
be pretty cool. So here's the fact I think is
super weird. If you're standing on mars Is Equator and
measure the temperature at your feet and at your head,
you find an almost forty degree fahrenheit difference. It's about
seventy degrees fahrenheit on the warmer ground and at about
thirty two degrees fahrenheit at the top of your head.
(36:49):
It feels like you have no idea what to wear.
If that was the case, right, yeah, you probably do.
You do like flip flops and then progressively like colder
and colder weather off, how would be so weird? Al Right, well, mango,
I have no idea how we've talked about Mars without
making a single bad candy bar jokes. I just want
to go ahead and ruin this for us. And I'd
(37:10):
like to mention that this Nickers bar, which comes in
at number eight on my list of best candy bars,
was named for a horse owned by the Mars family.
So there, yeah, well, I mean you did ruin this
for us. I love that. I'm going to give you
the ward. Thank you so much, and thank you guys
for listening. I'm sure there are tons of great facts
(37:30):
about Mars that we didn't include in today's episode, and
as always, we'd love to hear those from you. You
can reach us by email part Time Genius and How
Stuff Works dot com, or you can call us one
fact hotline that's one eight four four pt Genius, and
as always, you can reach us on Facebook or Twitter.
But thanks so much for listening. Thanks again for listening.
(38:02):
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(38:24):
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