Why is Ayn Rand a Political Rock Star?

Rand consistently tops polls of influential authors. Libertarians worship her; teens can’t stop reading her. But what makes her so compelling? Also, why was she obsessed with Morris the Cat? Featuring John Green.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Guess what will? What's that? So? I just want to
warn you this might be the most controversial thing I
ever say on this show. Here it is. I don't
think iron Rand's that funny. Wait, that's your controversial statement.
I don't think there's anyone out there debating that. Well
you think that. But iron Ran was such a polarizing figure,
and the people who love her, they love her. I mean,

(00:21):
she basically had groupies who treated everything she did like gospel.
I was reading this oral history of her life and
her secretary said that when Rand bought a new dining table,
all her disciples noticed, and the next day a bunch
of them went out and bought the same table for
their homes because they were convinced it was the only
real dining table. Wow. Well, she definitely had some devoted followers,

(00:42):
but that's not what makes learning about her so hard.
Either people hated her or they worshiped her, So you
get quotes about how completely humorous she was, or on
the other hand, you get quotes about how riotously funny
she could be. But the examples of her being funny, well,
they just sound like people have cute funny confusion. What
does that mean? Like the examples of her being funny
or like, someone saw her do a little dance when

(01:03):
she was happy, and that's not funny, that's cute. I mean,
I really hunted. And this is the only joke of
her as I could find. Are you ready for it? Yeah?
I think so because it is hilarious. So what's a
four letter word ending in I T that embodies Eleanor
Roosevelt and is found at the bottom of a bird cage?
First of all, I kind of love that even her

(01:24):
jokes are overwritten. But anyway, and whenever she started telling
this joke, she started giggling and could barely get through it.
But the answer is grit, which I guess to iron
Rand was objectively funny. Like, the only really funny thing
about that joke is that she hated Eleanor Roosevelt, but
the punch line kind of praises her. Yeah, I don't

(01:44):
see iron Ran getting a Netflix comedy special anytime soon.
But she was charismatic and smart and she had a
really fascinating life. But here's my question, why does she
seem to be the most talked about novelist of our times?
Even though she wrote her novels more than fifty years ago,
and why is it that Washington can't get enough of her?
I think it's time we find out. Hey there, podcast listeners,

(02:22):
I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my
good friend Mangoes Hot Ticketer, Hey there, Mango, Hey, and
this is Part Time Genius Now. Today we're asking the
question how did Iron Rand become such a political rock star?
Which is going to be fun, I know. And in
addition to all things Rand will be joined by someone
who may rival Rand and his ability to capture the
hearts and minds of teenagers everywhere, the mega best selling

(02:43):
author of The Fault in Our Stars and our good
friend John Green. Now, do we have a really bad
quiz for him to play today? Mango the worst? Good god?
Who's playing our part time Genius quiz today? Well, and
sticking with the Iron Rand theme, we've got a couple
of architects competing for the big prize. And if you
don't know why architects are appropriate for a show on RAN,
well you'll understand soon. That's true. All right, Well, let's
get to it. So. Biographer Jennifer Burns described Rand as

(03:06):
the ultimate gateway drug to life on the right David Nolan,
one of the founders of the Libertarian Party, commented that
without Iron Ran, the libertarian movement would not exist, and
one twentieth century philosopher said that in the entire history
of philosophy, there were really only three philosophers worth paying
close attention to. They were the three A's Mango. It

(03:26):
was Aristotle, A Quintas and Iron Rand. In fact, that
philosopher called Ran the most creative thinker alive. So tell
me who said this, Well, it was Iron Ran, but
she might have been a little bit biased, but still,
I mean that's a pretty big endorsement. Yeah, she didn't
just give out endorsements to anyone. She earned that endorsement.
So in honor of that, we should recommend the only

(03:47):
things worth listening to today, and that's the Three piecee
P Yeah, Prince Paula Abduel and part Time Wow. That's
part of the playlist, Mango. Actually, do you know what
Iron Rand's quote reminds me of? What's that? So there's
great a season Sorry where he talks about walking into
Kanye west house and Kanye is in his living room
just nodding his head to his own music and when

(04:08):
he sees his ease. He just points out the speaker
and says, these pets are dope. Like of all the
music out there, Kanye only really needs Kanye. He's that genius.
And I feel like I'm Rand had a similar opinion
of herself in this book, A Hundred Voices and Oral
History of an Rand. Her friends say she'd often read
and reread her own books, like she'd pick up one

(04:28):
of her books to find a quote, and then she
wouldn't be able to pull herself away because she found
out her own writing was that captivating. But you just
have to keep reading the novel and Atlas shrugged his laws,
it take the average person thirty six hours to read it. Yeah,
but I think Iron Rand would be quick to remind
you that she was no average person. That's definitely true.
And to be clear, just like Kanye, she wasn't the

(04:49):
only one captivated by her own work. It's kind of
surprising that whenever there's a big list of the most
influential books in history where readers, not critics are weighing in,
she tops the list. In the nineties, the Library of
Congress and the Book of the Month Club teamed up
to ask readers what book had influenced them the most.
Not surprisingly, number one on the list was The Bible,
you know, because it's hard to vote against God's writing.

(05:12):
But in second place at Las Shrugged. Yeah, but reader
polls are notoriously the worst. I mean, when I was
in high school, Delaware Today had a reader poll of
the best Mexican restaurants in the state, and Taco Bell
came in second place. I don't know what's your point is,
Taco Bell is delicious, but but that book isn't the
only one iron fans are passionate about. When the Modern
Library did a survey asking readers to vote on the

(05:34):
twentieth centuries best works of fiction, at Las Shrug came
in first. Again, The fountain Head was right behind it
in second, Anthem was seventh, and We the Living was
in eighth. Those are all Rand works. This is crazy,
but most scholars don't agree, right, I mean, none of
those four Iron Rand books showed up on the Modern
Library survey of critics, not a single one. You're right,

(05:54):
I mean there's a clear divide between the world of
critics and Iron Rand's massive fan base, which might be wise.
She hated critics so much. Scholars and critics in general
never took her that seriously, right, But after seeing how
many people she had influenced and how passionate her fans are,
I realized that ignoring her is clearly a mistake. Like
millions of people intensely identified with their stories, and I've

(06:15):
always just assumed it was purely like bankers and politicians
and the band Rush that wasn'to her. But she also
influenced like Billy Jean King and even Mendez. You might
not expect. I mean, Rand's goal from the start was
to create these page turning, action adventure novels layered with
mystery and passion that spread her philosophy, and it's kind

(06:35):
of amazing that she actually did that. Like, for whatever
you think about her, she got a whole world of
people to rethink their values and also maybe believe in themselves. Sure,
I mean, her whole notion was to sell people on objectivism,
which is built on the idea that man is a
heroic being. And Ran identified man's own happiness as the
moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his

(06:56):
noblest activity and reason as his only absolute which sounds
lovely on the surface, right, You're like, who can't get
behind working hard and achieving and being happy and living rationally.
That's what she truly believed. But she also thought she
was only writing to reach a few extraordinary people in
every generation. And when you play Rand's philosophy out, she's
advocating that selfish behavior is the most moral behavior and

(07:18):
that altruism is inherently evil. It's a little like the
anti Mr Rogers, right, it's not everyone special, but more
only a few of you are special. And also, instead
of sharing, why don't you hoard your toys? Exactly? Actually,
there's this great quote from Christopher Hitchens that I scribbled down.
He said, I've always found that quaint and rather touching,
that there's a movement in the US that thinks Americans

(07:39):
are not yet selfish enough. I love that. But back
to Rand, So she rejected altruism. She was completely against
any government overreach, whether that meant curbing your rights or
redistributing wealth into social services. So you can also see
why TEA Party members and conservatives started regularly quoting her
work after the financial meltdown. And to clear Rand did

(08:01):
not like to be described as a conservative or a libertarian.
She was a strident atheist who preferred to be called
a radical for capitalism, which is why she wore all
those radical jewelry pieces shaped like giant dollar signs, right right,
I think that's I just love how big and how
gold they were. I think those were from the Scrooge
make Duck collections. So but it's clear that iron Rand

(08:22):
loved capitalism and extraordinary people. So who are some of
the geniuses she was talking about? Well, in vague terms,
she admired great artists and captains of industry, people who
produced versus the moochers and the takers. So, according to
her friend Susan Ludell, for Iron, Aristotle and Victor Hugo
were basically the tops. Then she also loved Greta Garbo
and Muhammad Ali Michelangelo and the chess player Bobby Fisher.

(08:45):
I mean, those are all talented people. But her favorite
contemporary hero, and this comes from multiple sources, Morris the Cat.
This is the finnicky cat from those Nine Lives Cat
Food Dads. Yeah, apparently she couldn't get enough of those commercials,
and not just because it featured a big, fluffy tabby,
but because she loved Morris's distinct form of aggressive personality.

(09:08):
Of course, she loved that he didn't stand for nonsense
and that he had strong opinions, and she liked his face.
I mean, some might say that's reading a lot into
a TV cat, but she loved him so much that
she went out and bought the novelty biographies about him. Right,
of course, I ran as a cat person. I mean,
she's not going to like something as needy as a dog. Yeah,
and she did have a number of cats. But you

(09:30):
know what's funny is that as cold as Iron's philosophy
can sound, there are a lot of accounts of her
being downright nice, like I mean, she's very much lived
by her principles. She didn't like to be contradicted, she
didn't give to charity, she was radically direct with people.
But in the accounts I read, I don't think she
was intentionally mean very often. Well that may be, but
it's definitely fun to read how famous people react to

(09:52):
her work. In fact, maybe we should dedicate an episode
to this alone. All right, maybe not. But people were
not always very kind so to Flannery O'Connor, for example,
she wrote in a letter to a friend that the
fiction of Iron Rand is as low as you can get.
Regarding fiction, I hope you picked it up off the
floor of the subway and through it and the nearest
garbage tail out. Flannery, I actually kind of like saying, ouch, Lanery,

(10:15):
that might be a new thing for me. And Gourvidel
once described Rand's view of the world is nearly perfect
and its immorality Ouch Flannery. See it works there too,
But then you hear the stories of people who are
just obsessed, like Ted Turner once paid for nearly two
d and fifty billboards that simply asked who is John Galt? Again?
If that reference doesn't make much sense to you now,

(10:36):
it will after we dive into Rand's works. But before
we do that, we should probably give a little bit
of background on Rand's early years, because they do help
us understand where her philosophy came from. So, Mango, what
do you say, I give you hundred and eighty four
seconds to talk about rans early life. I'm not sure
that's going to cover it. Well, I'm setting my four
second clock anyway, so you're ready, go okay. So, in

(10:58):
some ways it's not hard to see how some of
Rand's views developed. Rand was born Alisa Rosenbaum in in St. Petersburg, Russia.
Her situation was pretty comfortable. Her dad was a pharmacist
and owned his own shop. Her mother came from an
important family, and her sisters even had a Belgian governess,
and the girls went to an elite school. The Rosenbombs
took grand vacations across the continent, which is not to

(11:20):
say that there weren't hardships. I mean, Russia was deeply
anti Semitic and Jews were often persecuted, but the family
was so well connected, and for the most part, the
girls had a sheltered upbringing. So that all changed in
nineteen seventeen when her father's pharmacy was taken over by
the Soviets during the Bolshevik Revolution. I mean, to watch
a government take over your family's business and to simultaneously

(11:40):
witness people preached the importance of the state over individual rights,
I mean, I think that changed you forever well. And
I think her family really struggled after that, right definitely.
So they moved into an apartment with no electricity. Rand
reportedly told friends that at one point they were even
wrapping their feet in newspaper because they couldn't afford shoes,
there was no running water. It was a super different time. Well,
I suppose one good thing that came about for her

(12:03):
was the ability to attend college. So after the Russian Revolution,
universities opened up to women, and Ran was one of
the first female students at Petrograd State University, that's right,
which is where she studied history and discovered one of
her biggest influences, the works of Aristotle. But she didn't
stay in Petersburg for long, right, that's right. She had
the opportunity to come to the US when she was

(12:24):
twenty to visit relatives, and after stops in New York
City in Chicago, she eventually found her way to Hollywood. Well,
and it turns out she was a huge movie lover
that she'd been seeing as many movies as she could
before she even got to the US. And then when
she was in Chicago, she had a relative who owned
a movie theater letter see films for free. So it's
no big surprise that she'd want to work in the
film industry. But she didn't exactly thrive there. No, she didn't.

(12:46):
I mean, I struggled in Hollywood in her early years.
But I want to pause for a second, to talk
about her mom. Now, didn't she model some of her
petty and superficial characters in her novels after her? I
mean that that's kind of a classic literary bird, right, Yeah,
that's right. So his mom was pretty hard on her,
and rand was super smart, the head of her class.
She wrote provocative essays in school and knew early that

(13:07):
she wanted to be a writer. From like age eight
or something, she'd internalized the story of Catherine the Great,
this woman who's overlooked and underestimated because she was homely
but clearly smart and savvy enough to grab power. Yeah,
and I knew from a young age she was going
to be great. I mean, she absolutely believed that exactly.
But she wasn't athletic or popular. And Anna Rosenbaum wanted
her daughter to succeed socially, so she nagged a lot,

(13:29):
and she could be pretty mean. Like once, when I'm
was four or five, she and her sister had strewn
toys all over the room, and Anna was irritated, so
she told her daughters to pick a few of their
favorite toys, give her the rest, and then one year
later they'd be able to trade them in. So i'n
sister kept a few of her favorites and gave the
rest to her mom. Meanwhile, I'm being a thinker, decided

(13:49):
to delay her gratification. She thought about how happy she'd
be a year from now to get her favorite toys back,
so she kept her least favorite ones, and then a
year later, when she asked her mom about the trade,
her mom laughed and said she'd given them all to
an orphan. Oh no, that's pretty rough, I know. So
it's this memory that's a little unfair, probably because most
people have a similar gripe with their parents. But for

(14:11):
iron Rand, who throughout her life found it really hard
to forgive even the smallest of slights against her, she
really held onto that grudge. And of course the story
is all about the unfairness of having your possession snatched
and given away to the poor. So I'm no shrink,
but you see how that shows up in her work. Yeah,
it's pretty easy to see how she was against altruism
when not only was her family's pharmacy being given to
other people, but her stuffed animals were too. I mean,

(14:34):
what's funny is that as much as she hated her mom,
her mom also played a big part in her ideology,
Like she wrote things to I'm like every man is
an architect of his own future, and every person is
the maker of her own happiness. And that sounded very
much like Randy and philosophy, I know. And so I
talks about everything like it just sprang from her own mind,
maybe with an assist from Aristotle or Nietzsche. For example,

(14:57):
she talks about how Russia was just a circumstance she
was born too, but how she would have developed the
exact same ideas in a vacuum because they're all perfectly
rational and reasonable, which I find hard to believe. What
that they're all reasonable. No, that she would have come
up with the same principles if she'd been born into
a different circumstance, or that she could have come up
with that philosophy without her mom's influence. But the other

(15:18):
thing that's interesting and also a little vexing, is how
rand believes she never got any help along the way.
I mean, I have to say, that's one thing that
really bothers me about her story too, Like her personal
mythology plays nicely into her ideology, but she got so
much help along the way, and her mom as much
as she nagged did a ton for She ordered foreign
magazines for as a child to stoke her interest in writing.

(15:41):
To get her into a film program, her mother joined
a communist society and shed all her elitist ties. I
wouldn't have been admitted had her mom that made that sacrifice.
It was I's mother who had figured out a way
to get her daughter out of Russia to study film
in the US. She sold the last of her jewelry
to fund Iron's trip to the States. Even when I'm
was struggling in Hollywood, she and E'n's dad were saving

(16:02):
and sending twenty five dollars a month to E'n from Russia,
which is crazy, just so she could eat and cover
her expenses. And they were already scraping just to get by. Yeah,
And in the U. S Sens extended family made all
sorts of incredible sacrifices for her to like They fed
her and lent her quite a bit of money that
she never even paid back apparently, And they made the
introduction for her to Cecil de Mills Studio in Hollywood,

(16:25):
which is how she got the job in California in
the first place. And they allowed her to type at night,
even though it disrupted the whole family's sleep, like they
did so much for her, and she was always just
aloof and kind of ignored them when she became famous,
although she did send them some free copies of her books,
and she said she didn't believe in charity. All right,
speaking of books, how about we take a break for

(16:46):
a little literature quiz. So our guest today is a
very good friend and one of the most brilliant people
man guest and I know. But more importantly, he's also
a very good due. He was one of the very
first contributors to Mental Flaws magazine when Mangesh and I
started it back in two thousand one. But not long

(17:06):
after that he informed us he'd be leaving Mental Flaws
to go write a novel. We just laughed and laughed
and said, we'll see you back in a few weeks.
But holy crap if he didn't write several great novels,
though it did take him a whole decade before he
hit number one on the New York Times bestseller list
with a publication of The Fault in Our Stars. A
couple of years ago, Time magazine named in one of
the one most influential people in the world. But even

(17:28):
after all this success, he's still mostly a good dude.
So John, welcome to Part Time Genius. Thanks great to
be here. It's always fun to hang out with you guys.
So we joke about you taking a decade to hit
number one on the list. But the life of a
struggling writer is something You've talked a good bit about,
and I'm curious just to hear from you how your
perspective has changed on what it means to be a

(17:48):
successful writer in today's publishing world. Yeah. I mean, I
to be honest, like, when my first book came out
in two thousand five, it only sold like two thousand
copies in its first year, but I thought that was
very successful find I mean, you know, I've always had
a day job, and I always figured I would have
a day job, so I wasn't thinking that I was
ever going to make a living from writing books. And uh,

(18:11):
the surprise development that I guess I have been able
to have been wonderful. But honestly, I'm still going to
the office every morning to work on crash course and
the video stuff that we do, and I like having
a day job, and I wouldn't want to give it up. Yeah,
and it seems like you do spend a fair amount
of time encouraging other writers and talking to other writers
about that, whether it's a struggle or whatever it is. Yeah,

(18:34):
I do want to be encouraging to young writers, especially
because I don't think it's like an unrealistic gold published
a novel. Like for many years I worked at this
magazine called book List, which was the review journal the
Marithon Library Association, and book Lists comes out every two weeks,
and every two weeks it reviews four or five novels
or books at least, And so there's lots of people
writing books, and there's no reason, um that that any

(18:57):
of us can't be one of them. Obviously, you love reading,
Like what writers have you fallen in love with recently?
And who should we be reading right now? The best
book I've read, the best young adult book I've read
in ages is uh The Hate You Give by Angie Thomas.
I just think it's phenomenal. I think it's I think
it's going to be remembered as a classic in the

(19:18):
way that we talked about The Outsiders Catcher in the Rye.
I think it's a very special book. It just came
out a couple of months ago, so you still you
can still get on the bandwagon early. Um, and then
I really uh, I loved Coulson Whitehead's most recent novel,
Underground Railroad. I've been a fan of his since I
was working at book List. Um. I was given one
of his books many many years ago to review, and

(19:41):
uh have followed his career. But I think Underground Railroad
is this his best book? It's just occasionally like the
book that wins the National Book Award and a few
Surprise and all the other awards, it turns out to
just be that good. And I think Underground Railroad is
is that book? Yeah, that's the only book of his
that I've read, but it was it was terrific. Yeah.
John henry Day, his first novel is also amazing. Well,

(20:02):
as you know, this is part of the Iron Rand episode,
and we decided for our guest today, we wanted to
find the only author that we know rivals Rand and
popularity with teenagers. So congratulations for that one. That's a
dubious honor to be put in the same same category

(20:22):
as as the Sountain Head. I mean, I know, I'm
sure you guys are trying to present a fairly unbiased
case here, but I have to confess that I am
not unbiased when it comes to uh to iron Rand,
I am not a fan. We might have done this
to you on purpose, So yeah, I know I I
kind of guess. All right, Well, mano, what quiz is
John playing with us today? So he's playing a game

(20:44):
called real celebrity children's book or something we just made up.
I don't want to brag in advance, but I know
a lot of real celebrity children's books. I feel like
I'm gonna feel like I'm gonna do okay here, awesome,
all right, So we'll read you a title and a celebrity,
and all you have to do is tell us if
it's a real book for children or something we made up.
So you don't need an example, but we kind of
wanted to give you anyway. So if we said how

(21:07):
Stinky the Cheese lost and then found his lost sneaker
by Hank Green, you would say we made it up.
That is not a real children's book. Well done. I'm
glad you know your brother well enough. So okay, here
we go. Question number one. It's a Big World, Little
Pig by Christi Yamaguchi. Oh, I mean that's plausible, but

(21:28):
I'm going to say it's made up. Oh, it's true. Actually,
it'sn't about an adorable, persistent, dreaming big pig. All right,
that's a good one. You may have to pick that
one up. Okay. Question number two, henri Leto and the
Magical Imfanat a Machine by Justice Samuel Alito. That's not possible.

(21:50):
You're correct, and you would be correct. Alright, Thank god,
thank god. Okay. Question number three, cheetzu kaka poo poo
My kind of Dog by Joy Behart. I mean I
did I wish that I didn't know enough about Joy

(22:10):
Behart to know that she's a huge dawn person. But
I think I think that's probably true. Yeah, that's true.
It actually is a true book. All right, So what
are we now? We are two out of three so far.
All right, we got two more. Okay, Little t Learns
to Share by Terrell Owens's book. Alright, Number five, Love

(22:33):
is a five letter word by Dan Quail. Oh, I
mean do whispers in this podcast, remember dan QUI? I
don't know, but it was just too good not to
include it. It's not true, it's it. No, it's undifors
not true, Thank god. You know, it would be great

(22:54):
if dan Quail had embraced his inability to spell the
word potato and like just owned it and turned it
into love is a five letter word, which, by the way,
it could be a great picture book. But I don't
I doubt that he has a self awareness for that.
But while we're on the topic of dan Quail, before
I let you guys go, ban Queen is in Indiana, guy,

(23:15):
and he will very likely when he passes away, be
buried in Crown Hill Cemetery here in Indianapolis where I live. Uh.
And Crown Hill Cemetery here in Indianapolis is home to
more dead US vice presidents who never became president than
any other single location on earth. WHOA, that's a great fact.
It's amazing. I'm glad we set him up for that one.

(23:37):
That's awesome. Yeah, thanks for the setup. That's actually the
only piece of trivia I know I looked out with
that one. Well done, all right, So, so how did
John do today? He got four out of five, which
is pretty amazing, and that wins in the top prize,
which is our continued admiration. Congratulations John, John, thanks so much.

(23:57):
For being with us. We can't wait to see what's next.
Thanks un, it's always good to talk to you guys.
Looking forward to podcast now. I know we already did

(24:18):
our guess what thing at the beginning of the episode,
but guess what else? Mango, what else? Will? So did
you know Iron Ran voted for f d R. How
can that be? I actually read that Iron and her
friend would take in New York Times with her to
the voting booth and vote against every recommendation to paper made,
which is true. But supposedly I'm voted for FDR because
he planned in prohibition. And what's weirder is that she

(24:40):
didn't even drink that much. But still, it's hard to
imagine her supporting someone so focused on the government's duty
to help citizens. I mean, this is the man who
set up Social Security, the SEC, the SEC, F D
I C T V A F A A. I'm pretty
sure I'm just listing letters at this point. Do you
definitely know a lot of letters? But let's get back
on track, So tell me about Rand's writing and her

(25:02):
Hollywood career. Sure, so, as we mentioned, Iron wasn't an
immediate hit in Hollywood, but she was hungry to make
a name for herself. She starts out with this letter
of introduction from her relatives to Cecil B. Demills Studio,
and she spends that into something amazing. So in her
story she talks about the luck she had bumping into
the mill on her first few days on the set.
But according to her friends, she was way more calculated

(25:25):
than that. It's much more likely she stalked him than
charmed him with her ambition. As you can guess, Iron
was big on creating your own luck. But she basically
talked her way into a better role as an extra
on the set of King of Kings, which is where
she met her future husband, Frank, and she landed a
steady job in wardrobe. Before too long, she was supplying
scenes to writing departments and working on rewrites. She just

(25:47):
kept hustling her way up. So I know one of
these gigs was supposedly reviewing movie scripts. And have you
read Mallory or Berg's Iron Rand reviews children's movies at
Mallory Hartberg from from the Toast. Yeah, she's she's such
as this and she did this Human Peace for The
New Yorker. It's so good. I have to read you.
My two favorite entries. I can't wait. So this is
Iron Rand supposedly reviewing Old Yeller. So a farm animal

(26:10):
ceases to be useful and is disposed of humanely, A
valuable lesson for children. Four stars, And this is Iron
Rand on Muffets Take Manhattan. This movie was a disappointment.
The Muppets don't take Manhattan. They merely visited No stars.
That's pretty rough, I know, but I cut you off.
You were talking about Rand's Hollywood hustle. Yes, she definitely

(26:31):
struggled for a while, and then about six years after
she gets the Hollywood she does start having some success.
I mean, she sells a screenplay, which is astounding considering
the fact that she doesn't even speak English fluently yet.
I know, I mean, her language is still rough around
the edges. But she's a workhorse and she's studying the craft.
And then she writes a play called The Night of
January sixteenth. It's a courtroom drama where the audience gets

(26:53):
pulled into the jury. It has a similar plot to
another play of the time, but it has a clever gimmick.
Depending on how the audience votes, the play's ending changes.
Oh kind of like I choose your own adventure. Uh
the movie Clue, which originally had four endings. Oh yeah, Clue.
So actually, by the way, did you know that movie
totally bombed at the box office because theaters only showed

(27:13):
one of the three endings each time. It was a
total crapshoot which ending you'd see, and so people were
just confused why they saw different versions of the movie.
So this classpt probably worked much better on VHD. I
guess so, I guess so, But but where were we? So?
So I is starting to play with philosophy. She saw
the plays endings as a touring litmus test for how
a jury thinks. But the more amazing thing about The

(27:35):
Night of January six is that it shed a ton
of royalties and was really smart about it. The play
only had one setting, so it was easy for summerstock
companies to put it on. And even though I'm soured
quickly on FDR and completely hated everything, he's good for
his works. Progress administration brought the play the hundreds of
local theaters around the country and paid for her performances.

(27:58):
According to author Anna conoverllor Ine was pocketing up to
twelve hundred dollars a week. In the depression era when
American incomes were usually around fifteen hundred dollars a year
and between then the screenplay she sold that gave her
space to write well, definitely. Her first novel, We the Living,
was published in nineteen thirty six, a year after the
Night of Hits Broadway. This is also the novel that

(28:20):
Ran later acknowledged was as close to autobiographical as anything
she would write. Sure, it's pretty common for writer's first
books to be pretty biographical, and Eines didn't follow the
details of her younger years exactly, but there were definitely similarities.
This was really Rand's first big public argument against communism.
So instead of a pharmacy, the protagonist own a textile
factory that gets taken away. It's a familiar theme, the

(28:43):
struggle of the individual against the state. Right, so this
is the theme she keeps building on in The fountain Head.
Guess how old she was when The fountain Head was published? Well,
all right, so this was nineteen forty three, so she
was thirty eight. Wait are you thinking thinking what I'm thinking? Yep,
we'll both be thirty eight after your birthday next month.
So we should write a fountain Head sequel. Okay, I

(29:05):
can't believe you were thinking the exact same thing I
was thinking. Yeah, instead of a fountain Head part two,
I think we should call it the mountain Head. All right, Yeah,
this is sounding worse tier then, and I have to
be honest. So Rand always said that in The fountain Head,
her goal was to show the vision of the ideal man,
and she felt she accomplished this with the novel's main character,
Howard Rourke, exactly works and architect who's a fierce individualist

(29:28):
and refuses to sell out to compromise his vision. So
in the novel we see all the struggles for work
faces because he's unwilling to simply conform and fall in
line with what the establishment thinks architecture should be. You
see others in the novel taking advantage of his talents,
but as Rand's ideal man, he shouns what she dubs
collectivism and stands firm against the second handers, the societal

(29:49):
parasites who live off of others talents. Yeah, Iron Rand
definitely saw the world in black and white, but it's
not surprising that the theme resonated with so many people,
and of course it launched Rand into another level popularity
and success. Yeah. One thing that's funny about The fountain
Head is that I'm kept a list of the twelve
publishers that rejected that book. It's in her archives in
a big part of her personal narrative. But what I

(30:11):
didn't realize until reading Heller's book was that of the twelve,
she turned down the advance from one for being too low.
Then she had a contract with one of them and
mr big deadlines that they dropped her, and for another
three or four of them, she only submitted a super
rough outline instead of full chapters, so they didn't really
understand the book, Like, if you're going to hold a

(30:31):
grudge for being rejected, all of those details matter. Well,
they didn't to RM. Even after it was written, publishers
weren't exactly sure what to do with The fountain Head,
but the book grew from word of mouth and it
quickly brought Rand the financial security she needed to be
able to think about other projects, so whether that was
screenplays or nonfiction, or just being a more vocal activist

(30:51):
for the anti communist and free market movements. So why
do you think she decided or should be an architect.
I think it's because I'm viewed architecture is being this
perfect blend of art, business and science, and decided that
her ideal man should look like this for the book.
Well that makes sense, and it's interesting that our philosophy
is pro art because I don't always think about Rand's
fans thinking that way. But back to the fountain Head,

(31:13):
it's curious how many architects would go around claiming Rourke
was patterned on them, like Richard Neutra, Raphael Soriano. There
at least four or five prominent people who just assumed
it was them. Well, it's especially funny because while we
know iron Ran considered Frank Lloyd Right the true Rourke,
when she actually met Right, she was turned off by
the fact that he surrounded himself with yes men who
worshiped his work, which you know, it's exactly what iron

(31:36):
Ran did. I mean, her groupies had to take loyalty tests,
they survived show trials in her living room just to
keep hanging with her loyalty tests. That's amazing, But it wasn't.
Frank Lloyd Right also kind of a socialist. Well yeah,
she kind of ignored that too, So so we talked
about individualism and collectivism, but we haven't yet talked about
the is m Rand is best known for, and that's objectivism.

(31:58):
And that's because we haven't really talked about the mother
of all Iron Ran books, Atlas Shrugged, which, by the way,
my dad used to pronounce shrug it like rugged. I
don't know if it's like a personal joke, but I
realized in college I was the only person in the
world I was pronouncing the book that way. And it
makes no sense because obviously it's shrugged. Like they'll get
me started on how you pronounced calcium calcium, but I

(32:21):
think you were talking about how the idea for Atlas
Shrugged emerged, right. So, as popular as The fountain Head was,
Iron was upset that readers and reviewers weren't grasping her philosophy.
And it's true that like each character in that book
has one specific philosophy and acts in that manner, and
she assumed it was all super clear to the reader.
But one of her friends told her, why don't you

(32:41):
just write a book to set people straight? And as
Iron started boxing saying she wasn't an altruist and it
wasn't her responsibility to clarify philosophy for this dumb audience,
like At the end of that conversation, she joked, maybe
I'll just go on strike, And that's where the idea
for Atlas came from, the question of what would happen
if all the world's most did people went on strike

(33:01):
at the same time. Well, but again, that project wasn't
exactly a quick turnaround, and she published Alice a decade
and a half after The fountain Head in nineteen fifty seven. Also,
did you know she refused to be edited, like she
famously told Bennett Surf of Random House, would you cut
the Bible? I think Bennett Surff could have shaved a
few paragraphs off the Bible and still had to make sense,

(33:22):
So she demanded no one touched her perfect text. Would
you cut the Bible? I think Bennett Surff could have
shaved a few paragraphs off the Bible and still had
to make sense. So um. Also, when she demanded no
one touched her perfect text, surf ast her to reduce
her royalties by eight cents a book to pay for
all that extra paper, which she actually did. I mean,

(33:42):
she was really committed to writing the Bible of objectivism,
and for someone who preached selfishness, she didn't mind taking
a pay cut to get her work out anyway. Atlas
Shrugged is where we meet the character John Galt, with
opening line who is John Galt? Uh? This book sets
up this mystery where and I'm sorry if we're spoiled
in this for you listeners, but honestly, you've had like
sixty years to read this thing. But it sets up

(34:05):
this mystery where John Galt has been leading a strike
of all those rand seas as the true contributors in society, scientists, artists,
inventors and so on, and in a dystopian us, the
phrase who is John Galt has become this meaningless phrase
of exasperation that's used widely. I really can't believe you
just spoiled John Gold. So maybe we should spoil some
other classics while we're at it, so you get all

(34:26):
our hate mail at the same time. So I'm sorry
to tell you, listeners, the Grinch doesn't just steal Christmas.
He ends up giving it back, and also Asslan from
the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Well, he's Jesus.
I'm pretty sure that sound we heard was forty people
simultaneously slamming their Dr. Seuss books down in disgust. But
Atlas Shrug's main intention is to show how without the

(34:47):
contributions of our most talented individuals, society and the economy
would collapse. Yeah, the idea of the strike was something
Rand talked about frequently, even outside of Atlas Shrug. Well,
I feel like half of what you talked about after
writing Outlas Shrugged was Atlas Shrug. At dinner parties, her
band of groupies would debate who would be the ideal
cast for an Atlas movie, And it's kind of the

(35:07):
way you might talk about baseball history and what your
fantasy baseball lineup would be. Well, the funny thing about
John Galt is that he's almost like those Chip Favery
andre the Giant stickers, or that Kilroy was here graffiti.
Once it gets pointed out to you, you start noticing
it everywhere. It's the same with those who is John
Galt signs. You see them at protests and tea party events,
and once you notice, you can't stop seeing them. So Anyway,

(35:30):
despite Inns previous common about not wanting to be altruistic
and have to explain her philosophies after Atlas Drug, that's
sort of what she did. She began writing more and
more nonfiction and focusing on communicating her philosophy on how
we should all exist in society. As she saw it,
the only real goal of government was to protect individual rights.
There was no moral obligation to look after other people's needs. Sure,

(35:54):
and on the flip side, she also believed that no
one was responsible for your needs. Of course, it's important
to keep in my and the Atlas Shrug was written
in a time when socialism was growing, I mean, the
Cold War was strong, and lots of places were also
veering towards socialist democracies, and Rand was warning about a
world where most countries were on the verge of collapse
because of government overreach. Well knowing that, it's not hard

(36:15):
to see why certain conservatives and libertarians have jumped on
the Iron Rand train, but she hated libertarians like She
once called libertarians publicity seekers who rushed into politics prematurely
because they allegedly want to educate people through a political campaign,
which can't be done. And she also accused them of
plagiarizing her ideas, saying it's a bad sign for an

(36:36):
allegedly pro capitalist party to start stealing ideas. She really
used the word allegedly, loved allegedly so iron Ran didn't
really hold back her feelings. It's clear and she was
ridiculously sure of her ideas. In fact, this is part
of what made her such a controversial person. Like she
made a lot of divisive statements. Yeah, like what do
you want to give a few examples. Yeah. In her
address to the graduating class at West Point in the seventies,

(36:59):
she said of of Americans, quote, they had no right
to a country merely because they were born here and
then acted like savages. The white man did not conquer
this country. Well, you gave a commencement address last year,
did you use a similar quote? You know? I decided
to leave that one out now. She later defended her
point on that by basically saying whenever a superior technology

(37:19):
meets an inferior one, that society has the right to prevail.
She was insistent that it wasn't a racist argument, just
a problematic one. I'd say. Well, and Ran also hated
the feminist label. She even referred to herself as a
male chauvinist. I mean, that's not hard to figure out
from her books. And in addition, there's no other way
to put this, but a lot of her sex scenes

(37:40):
are kind of rape, like it's often a man throwing
a woman down who doesn't want to have sex but
actually does. And she ended up having to write letters
to her male fans clarifying that she was not suggesting
rape as a practical romantic strategy and that the scenes
she was writing about were actually consensual. And maybe that's
why she hasn't read on more college campuses. And also
plenty if people have taken issue with her comments about

(38:02):
women and the thinking that a woman shouldn't aspire to
be president, even though she claimed not to believe that
women were any less intelligent or capable. Yeah, but in
many ways the things that have made conservatives distanced themselves
from her are just the fact that she's stridently pro choice,
like she borrowed money from an abortion pretty early in
her marriage, and she was also a proud atheist. There's
a funny threat in her biography where housekeeper Eloise is

(38:24):
constantly trying to convert her, and even on her deathbed,
she's letting Eloise know there is no God. You think
would be very difficult for a social conservative to get
behind Rand because she was not vague in her positions
on these things. But I have to say, this is
starting to feel a little heavy. So when we cut
the tension with a little quiz, let's do it all right, mangoes.

(38:49):
So who do we have on the line today. We've
got two architects online. We've got Marshal from Birmingham, Alabama,
and Rob's calling in from New York City. All right,
so let's meet each of them. First. We have Marshall,
who started a company called Designed Initiative in Birmingham. Marshall,
welcome to part time genius. Glad to be here, excited
about the opportunity. All right. So I know that we're
here to talk about you guys as architects. But I

(39:10):
did notice in some of the notes that you sent
us that you joined the Marines at the age of
seventeen after seeing the movie Aliens. Is this true? Yeah,
that's right, I'm sure. Well I don't know either you
saw this movie, but there were these colonial marines that
had these really wicked guns that made this awesome sound.
And I saw the movie and thought, that's what I

(39:32):
want to do. In addition to that, I was kind
of tired of being told what to do but my father,
so I thought looked better way to kind of express
my independence and joining the Marine Corps. Then then to
go be told what to do by the Marines. Right, Yeah,
So I served for about four years, and uh, I
got a little tired of being told what to do,

(39:53):
and so the first thing I decided to do once
I got out was getting married. I'm married a strong,
wild Latino woman. Well done. All right, So Rob, tell
us how you were inspired by the movie Aliens. I
don't think I've ever seen it. Excellent. So Rob is
currently working at the Googenheim. I'm actually curious what what
would you say is the best part of working at

(40:14):
the Googgenheim, Rob, I think the biggest perk is you
can go in there on a Thursday when nobody else
is in the entire museum and and get a pretty
impressive space to yourself. Oh that's awesome. Yeah, I'm jealous
of that. So all right, well it is time to
play one of our really really dumb games. And so, Mango,
what game are we playing today? We're playing a game
called the stage Name Game. All right, that's right. Because

(40:37):
iron RAN's actual name was Alyssa Rosenbaum, we thought we'd
play a game involving some celebrity original names. So, for example,
if we said Desiderio Albert Arnez the third was married
and starred in a sitcom with Lucille Ball, you would
say Desi Arnez got it. And because you're playing against

(40:57):
each other and we don't have buzzers, we're going to
give you each an animal sound buzzing with. Okay, that's right,
all right, Rob, do you want to me out for us?
I can do that, I guess, okay. And Marshall, why
don't you be our dog? So how about a wolf
wolf from you for your answers? That sound good? Perfect,
because you know marines are devil dogs. So I've got

(41:18):
a really good bark. Yes, that's what we We had
that in mind when we decided to do this. So alright,
so we've got five questions here. You want to jump in.
You will name the celebrity that we are giving a
hint about. So Question number one. Stevelyn Judkins is a
singer known for several hit songs including Signed, Sealed, Delivered

(41:40):
and I Just Called to say I Love you. What's
his real name? Yeah? All right, Rob, I heard him out.
Stevie Wonder, good job, okay. Question number two Ginger Rogers
dancing partner Frederick Osterlitz took another name. What was it? Wow,

(42:01):
Rob's I think he's just excited to me out. Okay,
I think I heard you say it? Can you say
it again? There? Right? Okay? Good job too to nothing.
Here we go. Question number three. This pop singer with
hits I kissed a girl and Roar changed her name
from Kate Hudson. Oh, let me read the question that

(42:22):
I'll let you answer their Marshall changed her name from
Kate Hudson because she didn't want to be confused with
actress Kate Hudson. Marshall, who was it? All right? Two
to one? Should have known you would know you're Katy
Perry history as informer Marine So okay. Question number four.
Natalie Herschlag snagged starring roles in Garden State, v for

(42:45):
Vendetta and in Star Wars Wow, Star Wars Phantom Menace Marshall.
What is her real name? Okay? Two to two? This
is the last one. Wow, this is a close one. Okay,
last one. This is a good one. Here we go.
This death Row rapper, famous for his hit song about
Jen and Juice, was born Cortizar Calvin Brodus Junior al right.

(43:09):
Recently he co hosted a TV show on v H
one with Martha Stewart. This was a huge comeback. If
he gets this right, who wasn't Marshall? Oh wow, nicely done,
so three to two. Good job guys. So what has
Marshall won today? Mango? As always, first place wins a
handwritten note from us to your mom or your boss,
singing your praises, and this week that goes to Marshall.

(43:31):
And because we don't want Rob in second place to
feel bad, we'll be mailing you a pterodactyl tope bag,
the cheapest tope bag we could find online with the
pterodactyl on it. Thank you both for playing. Thanks guys
for being on a part time genius. This was a
lot of fun. Thanks. So we talked about the popular

(44:00):
Divine Rand's novels and her later nonfiction writing. But what
would you say of her lasting impact? Well, there's no
question she's made millions of people think and over the
past couple of decades, after a big economic downturn and
the emergence of the Tea Party and other conservative movements,
she certainly enjoyed a resurgence. But I wonder how many
politicians will continue to claim Rand as a major influence

(44:20):
as more and more things have come out about her,
like her open marriage, the fact that she advocated for abortions,
her absolute detest of religion. I mean, she hated Reagan
because he sold her theories to the masses by tethering
them to religion. It just gets hard to embrace her publicly. Yeah,
it's interesting to think about. I mean, you used to
hear politicians like Paul Ryan and Mark Sandford talking about

(44:40):
being heavily inspired by Rand. I think Ryan even said
he made her books required reading for all of his interns,
and that he read the books a few times a year.
But what it feels like we're seeing now as politicians
acknowledging that Rand simply got them thinking about the world
and how to live in it, you know, more in
their teenage years. In fact, some of her early editors
say as much. She had one quite liberal editor who

(45:02):
said he loved her work and was happy to publish
it because it was great young adult fiction. It makes young,
disenfranchised teens embrace their independent qualities and reframes them as heroes.
And of course these are oversimplified ideas that people could
overcome almost any adversity just through hard work and intelligence,
and that everyone is either sorted into people who produce

(45:22):
or people who leach. Journalist Nora Ephron wrote about her
experience with Brand and specifically her reading of The fountain Head,
and said she loved the book as an eighteen year old,
but that she really missed the point and that quote
it's a better read when one is young enough to
miss the point, Otherwise one cannot help but thinking it's
a very silly book. So it does feel like now
you hear more politicians acknowledging that they had a Rand phase,

(45:44):
and both Paul Ryan and Mark Sandford have said in
more recent years that they reject her overall philosophy for
its lack of compassion. And in a day when it's
like much easier to know the full story of someone's writings,
it's harder for someone to quote one part of Rand's
philosophy without someone else quickly pointing out, well, did you
know she said this terrible thing or that terrible thing.
I mean, it's all out there on the internet right now,

(46:06):
the Worldwide Web now here. It's gonna be big. It is,
and I don't think either of us are suggesting that
iron Rand won't continue to find an audience. There are
definitely several businesses that have been named after Rand, and
you know, as we saw as we were doing our
research for the episode on tax havens, there are a
lot of yachts and even construction companies in the Cayman's
name for her. So while politicians and other public figures
may not be quite as quick to get behind iron Rand,

(46:29):
there is one thing we should all be able to
get behind. What's that the fact that no show could
be complete without the part time genius fact on Let's
do it M So I'm gonna start. Did you know

(46:50):
Iron Rand was a massive Charlie's Angel fan. Yeah, she
never missed an episode, and she was actually also obsessed
with Agatha Christie books, though she only liked Herkuele Poirot
and not miss Marvel, mainly because she wasn't a feminist.
All right. Well, iron Ran was so afraid of being
kidnapped that she refused to take planes. She only traveled
by trains, and sometimes the people who sponsored her speeches

(47:11):
would have a personal rail car added to a train
to transport her. I know, I always ask for an
extra rail car anytime I give this stretch. So she
was also paranoid about losing her manuscripts, and when Atlas
Shrug was being written, she would often put the text
in her briefcase, then handcuffed to her husband when they
went out. All right, Well, every year, four hundred thousand

(47:32):
copies of Rand's novels are given free to Advance Placement
high school programs. They're paid for by the iron Ran Institute,
whose director yarrown Brook said the mission was to keep
Rand alive. That's so, for all her talk of hating charity,
she actually did some nice things for people, Like she
paid for Frank's niece to go to college, and one
time she sent stamps to kids of a family she'd

(47:55):
met because she knew the kids were stamp collectors. And
of course, her rationale for all of that was the
charity shouldn't be a zero sum game. She only helped
people if she thought she was getting something for that money.
It's almost like she had to rationalize like giving because
it was against everything she wrote about. Wow. Well, the
only instance I could find of iron Ran admitting she
had made a mistake was with one of her followers.

(48:16):
She was having an affair with so Iron set down
with her husband the guy's wife the guy, and she
told them it was selfish of them and immoral of
them not to let Iron and the guy have an affair.
Her terms were that the affair would take place a
few days a week for maybe two years, and the
mistakes she admitted was that she should have presented it
as a longer term. That's ridiculous. So did you know

(48:38):
that Alan Greenspan was one of her groupies, so he
took her to meet President Ford in Washington when he
was sworn into a new physician. Also, Greenspan was constantly
telling her she should put her money in the stock market,
but she refused. She just kept in a bank account.
So at the end of her day, she didn't have
nearly as much money as she could have, which is
odd for a capitalist. So maybe that's why she took

(48:59):
socially curity at the end of her life. What i'n
ran was on Social Security. Yeah, I mean, she was
philosophically against it, but her lawyer basically told her she
needed the money for her illnesses. And I'm told her
to make decisions but not to tell her about them.
That's so disappointing, but it is a great fact. So
I'm going to seed this round to you. Thank you, um.
And before we finally sign off, we've got to announce

(49:21):
our addition to the Hall of Genius. UM. You know,
I was so influenced by i'm Rand's philosophy and absolute
selfishness this week that I thought we should give the
award to ourselves. So dumb, I think it's just you
being lazy. Yeah, definitely. I'm equal parts producer and mucher now,
so also I'm officially a genius. Good job. Well that

(49:42):
sounds pretty dubious. But that's it for this week's Part
Time Genius. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks again for
listening to Part Time Genius. Be sure to subscribe wherever

(50:03):
you listen to your podcasts, And because we're a brand
new show, if you're feeling extra generous, we'd love it
if you give us a rating on Apple Podcast. Part
Time Genius is produced by some of our favorite geniuses.
It's edited by Tristan McNeil, theme song and audio mixing
by Noel Brown. Our executive producer is Jerry Rowland. Our
research team is Gabe Bluesier, Lucas Adams, Autum white Field, Madronto,
Austin Thompson and Meg Robbins. Jason Hoke is our chief cheerleader.